April 27, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of The Aging Well Podcast, Dr. Jeff Armstrong and Corbin Bruton are joined by Chris Vogelsang. Chris shares his inspiring journey through cancer diagnosis, treatment, and recovery. Diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma in 2008, Chris discusses the emotional impact of his diagnosis, the challenges he faced, and the importance of maintaining a positive attitude. He explains the innovative CAR-T therapy he underwent at Roswell Park Comprehensive Cancer Center in Buffalo, NY and reflects on the changes in his life post-treatment, emphasizing the value of family, relationships, and living in the moment. Chris offers advice to others battling cancer, highlighting the advancements in medical treatments and the importance of hope and support.https://www.roswellpark.org/
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(00:08):
Welcome to the Aging Well Podcast, where we explore the
many facets of healthy aging, longevity and resilience.
In this episode, we are joined by a truly inspiring guest,
Chris Vogelsong, who has faced and overcome immense challenges
in his journey with Non Hodgkin Lymphoma.
Diagnosed 14 years ago, Chris underwent multiple treatments
before being presented with a groundbreaking approach.
(00:29):
Chimeric antigen receptor T cell.
Therapy at Roswell Park. Comprehensive Cancer Center in
Buffalo, NY Now nearly two yearsinto remission, Chris is
embracing life to the fullest, playing tennis, spending time
with his grandchildren, and evendiscovering love again.
In this episode, we'll talk withChris about his battle with
lymphoma, the impact of CAR T cell therapy, and how he's
(00:51):
making the most of his second chance at life.
His story is 1 of perseverance, hope, and the incredible
advancements in cancer treatment.
Chris. Welcome to the Aging Well
podcast. Before we begin, let's have you
tell our viewers and our listeners about yourself and
take us back to the moment of your initial diagnosis.
What were your first thoughts and emotions?
(01:13):
So my initial diagnosis goes wayback to about 2008 when I had
gone in just for a regular bloodcheck with my physician and I
had a low platelet count. And I then went to my General
practitioner physician and he felt in my stomach and he said,
(01:38):
I think you have an enlarged spleen.
And I said, well, what would that indicate?
He said that's possible lymphoma.
So it was sort of a, and I've been very healthy for years.
I've never had any comorbidities, no type of
diabetes are overweight. I've always been active.
I've always been an athlete bothin high school and college and
(02:01):
then beyond. And so it sort of struck me as a
real shot. But he caught it so early in the
process that I then went to Roswell and they said, you are
so early with this, we're just going to wait and watch and on
that protocol. And then once my spleen got
(02:22):
large enough, they said, OK, it's time to treat this.
And they did the typical bone marrow biopsy and blood work and
determined that I had a type of cancer, lymphoma that was an
aggressive 1. So he said we're going to treat
it aggressively. So I had my first stem cell
(02:42):
transplant in really the fall of2009.
And and that was completed, oh, I think up until about because
it was a process of retirement, it was a stem cell with my own
cells versus having a donor a match per SE.
And that was completed in about February of 2010.
(03:09):
Did I say 2000 O nine yeah, to 2010.
So that was the initial and fromthere on I was in in really good
shape. It took me about a year to gain
back the £35 that I had lost with the chemo rounds and
everything and but within eight months to a year or so I was
(03:29):
feeling up to where I was before.
That was fine until I had a regular scope in my to have a
colonoscopy and they saw a little bit of something and they
they did the biopsy and the cancer had returned, but it
wasn't evident in anything else other than their.
(03:52):
So they watched that and they put me on a pill at that .1 of
the biologic cancer, the chemotherapy pills called
Imbruvica, one of those really expensive ones.
And luckily throughout all this,I had really good insurance.
But in any event, I was on that for about 3 1/2 years.
(04:15):
And in the fall of 2022, I couldfeel my my energy level just
declining. I was having night sweats, I was
losing weight. So I knew that something was
going on. And I scheduled to come in and
see my doctor, oncologist at Roswell in the Leukemia Lymphoma
(04:38):
center and they did some tests and said, OK, it's back and we
need to treat it. And by then I knew enough about
CAR T and I said, So what are myoptions?
First one was the another stem cell transplant but with a donor
we had I had 100% batch and the other one was car T and I said
(05:03):
So what? What would you recommend?
He said car T for the best quality of life.
I said I, I suspected, but I just wanted to hear it from the
doctor. So I started CAR T at the end of
probably November, I think we started and that was rounds of
chemo scheduled for three roundsof chemo from November into
(05:26):
January of 2023. And after two rounds my lymphoma
was totally clear. So whatever cocktail of
chemotherapy drugs I had taken really cleared it right out,
which was good. And then as I don't, are you
(05:48):
fairly aware of Car T in that whole process?
I think we'll be asking you somequestions about that just to
kind of clarify it all for the. Listeners and the viewers so car
T was the process by which they they remove your T cells, one of
your B cells, T cells or your line of of blood cells that
(06:11):
fight all different sorts of colds and whatnot.
And they took out my T cells andthen sent them to a laboratory
to be genetically modified. And then once they were came
back in and I had the those transplanted in March of 2023,
(06:32):
it was again, I lost a fair amount of weight.
It was I think I was in Roswell is an impatient 8 solid 8 weeks
not solid, but at various times I did have an infection, which
was not great early on in the process.
So that's sort of dumped me backinto Roswell for a couple weeks
(06:53):
too. So I came out in March.
I had a little bit of neurotoxicity, which is an
effect of car T for some people and just to make me a little
edgy, a little shaky, I guess. But that subsided after about 3
(07:14):
weeks or so, I would say. And I asked the doctor, I said
how long is, is it going to takeme to recover from this?
And they said it'll probably be about a year.
And I would say they were right.It's, you know, a long haul to
gain back the weight and to get the strength back to where I am
now. I've always been a golfer and
(07:37):
during COVID I I played squash for 40 years and during COVID I
switched over to tennis. My squash was on a double squash
court with three other guys and my oncologist said probably not
a good idea to be in a small room with three other guys
huffing and puffing. So I went to tennis, which I
(07:57):
hadn't played in many years, andnow I'm playing regularly and I
love it. We're in Buffalo, NY, so we're
playing indoors and then once golf season picks up, I'm back
out on the golf course. So back to really feeling well
and happy for Roswell, happy forcar tea.
I'm just fortunate and lucky that when I went on to that
(08:20):
pill, that gave me enough time, that three-year time period for
Roswell then to start doing car tea because it hadn't been I
think before that time when I got it.
It's still been in clinical trials in Sloane and then Boston
to Dana Farber, maybe some other, especially in
(08:43):
Philadelphia where it was reallydeveloped.
So I was lucky that by the time I needed that treatment it was
then available and they had the track record with it.
Over the 14 years since you died, since you've been
diagnosed, what were some of thebiggest challenges that you
faced? Yes, it's a good question.
(09:03):
I think the challenge is keepingyour attitude positive.
I mean, for me, because I've always been so active, my sense
was OK, I've got to do this and I know I want to come out at the
other end healthy and back to mynormal life.
So I never, never had a sense of, of doom.
(09:26):
I think it was always OK. It's not a, it's not a diagnosis
of six months, 8 months, a year,whatever it was.
You can come out and, and, and they won't say cured, I think
with car T until they have a number of years where patients
are free of cancer. I think to me, it was really
(09:47):
looking forward and just stayingpositive at what my outcome
would be. Now I will say one of the most
difficult times that I did have was during my first transplant.
It was a time when my wife, my late wife was also going through
cancer treatment. So both of us were in that
(10:08):
predicament. I would say she had breast
cancer that metastasized to her liver and that was something
that was too severe for her to overcome.
And she passed away in May of 2010.
So I had just finished my first stem cell transplant and then
(10:29):
she passed away. So that was sort of the, the, if
there was any challenge, it was staying level headed and
positive at least as well as I could for, you know, my family
and friends just to get through that part of my life.
Yeah, I was not aware that you had lost your wife in the
(10:49):
process of all this. Sorry for your loss and thank
you. As you think of the, you know,
the challenge of going through and battling cancer itself is
challenging enough. I can imagine.
I mean, I have not gone through it, but doing it in parallel
with a spouse who's all you knowwhose terminal, that's got to be
tremendously challenging. How did?
What did you do to? Maintain your motivation and a
(11:13):
positive mindset during those periods of, you know, your
wife's decline and your multiplerelapses.
I think you try as best you can to get back into the rhythm of
life. It's the mundane things.
It's cooking, it's cleaning, it's grocery shopping.
It's, you know, whatever, whatever you need to do, you
just sort of do and, and you go to the hospital with your wife
(11:36):
or support her as much as you can.
And I think, I mean, while I hadn't, I, I had recovered
enough so that I was not, you know, totally debilitated.
I could walk, get around and do what I needed to do and to help
her. And she wanted to go down to
South Carolina and see a specialist, which we did.
(11:58):
So driving her down there. And so, you know, it's, I think
I had a lot of support from her and I gave her a lot of support.
And I was remarried. I met my wife about four months
after my first wife passed away.And I would say I'm happily
married, incredibly fortunate tohave met my current wife, Karen.
(12:23):
And, and you know, during this past session of my car T, she
was as supportive as I could expect any person to be.
She's just fabulous, pretty lucky in so many ways.
So what I know you kind of touched on this earlier, but
what is chimeric antigen receptors or CAR T therapy and
(12:46):
what led you to consider this asthe option?
I had, I had talked to my ecologist, Dr. Hernandez at
Roswell during the time that I was on that pill and I think he
brought up car T would be available.
And so I, I sort of did some reading, but really the
(13:07):
education from him of the basicsand you know, the, the cellular
level, the biologic level, the incredible science that goes
behind it to figure out how you modify AT cell, You know, what
do you do to attach it's proteins that seek out lymphoma
(13:29):
cells. That stuff is, that's not my
language. I mean, my language is here's
what it does. This is what it's, it's
programmed to do is go after andattack lymphoma cells.
So, you know, from that standpoint, I'm not a scientist.
I'm not, you know, in biology I was always in sales management
(13:53):
and so on. And so that was about as best as
I could understand it, which is pretty much all I needed to know
in many ways. I didn't.
I don't think I approached treatment at any time saying,
well, what are the what are the downfalls?
What are the what are the bad things that can happen?
I don't my mind mind isn't programmed that way.
(14:14):
My mind is programmed to say, OK, here's the challenge.
You get through it. Put your chin up and and make
the most of it and as best as you can.
Champion mentality. I I think so.
I think so, yeah. The attitude of an athlete.
You sort of have to, yeah, learnfrom your mistakes and keep your
(14:35):
head up and keep going. You.
Probably sound like the majorityof our listeners and viewers who
might be in a position you have to kind of consider therapy.
It's like, I don't need to know the science, just tell me is it
going to work and what do I haveto do?
And and so you went to a few different treatment options.
How has your treatment experience kind of compared you
(14:57):
know, with the cart versus the the previous therapies that you
did? Well, I would say the stem cell,
the first transplant and then the cart T transplant were
really pretty similar. I lost my hair, I lost weight.
You know, chemo takes the heck alot of stuff out of you.
And so they're pretty, they werepretty comparable.
(15:22):
In both cases, it took pretty much eight months to a year to
recover. So it's, it's almost a tie, I
think. I think.
Well, I do think there's one difference is back in 2009, they
didn't have the drugs to help with the nausea.
And, you know, just that whole sense of not being able to keep
(15:46):
food down and, and that it's much more improved.
And I've talked to people who'vegone through transplants since
and they've come up, they have some drugs that have really
helped mitigate that terrible nausea feeling.
So I hadn't thought about that until just now.
But yeah, that would be the the big difference is is you're
tired. You don't necessarily want to
(16:07):
eat. But I didn't feel as nauseated
as I did in first transplant. Now the other other when I was
on the pill, minor side effects with with a pill for 3 1/2
years. The only side effect was a very
large monthly payment for the that was one of those biologics
(16:30):
that President Biden was lookingat targeted.
There were 5 or 6 he wants that they were trying to bring the
price down. After my insurance, I was still
paying on average $935 a month for that pill.
So I hit the I hit the doughnut hole on that one.
At some point, you know, you do what you got to do.
(16:50):
I'm fortunate to be able to havetaken on that cost in my life.
And but just some minor things. I had sort of dry hands and lots
of splits and some other things in my fingers, but nothing that
I would say would be traumatic. Yeah.
You've shared a lot of kind of like life shifting changes that
(17:14):
have taken place as you've embarked on this journey.
But what What were the biggest changes that you would say you
had noticed after undergoing CART cell therapy?
I'm not sure that there were huge, you know, moments of aha.
I think I came out with feeling progressively better as the
(17:38):
months went by and appetite coming back, getting stronger,
being more active. You know, remember, this was
also just before COVID set in. So we really changed.
I'm fortunate I have a house. I'm in Buffalo, NY, at western
end of New York State, and we'reright along the Canadian border.
(18:02):
And I have a house over in Canada on the North Shore of
Lake Erie about it's only half an hour or so from where I'm
sitting now in Buffalo. And we couldn't get into Canada.
Canada closed the border during COVID, so we couldn't get in
that summer. And then they closed the border
for about almost a little over half of the summer, the next
(18:25):
one. So while I was sort of
recovering, I would say I was, we did a lot of walking around
the city. We'd go to some nature preserves
just to get out and be active and get some sunshine and do
that. And still my wife and I still do
a fair amount of walking, playing golf, and I'd get
together with friends and play different courses.
(18:47):
So that I would say that's one of the things that that helped
with my attitude and with my body recovering.
Did you have any concerns or fears as you kind of went into
this new treatment approach? Not really.
Not really. I I knew it was a transplant.
I knew other people had done it.Doctor Hernandez gave me
(19:09):
basically the sense years after three years of percentage, which
is very high of successful transplants.
And I, as I said, it didn't havediabetes, I didn't have any
heart issues. I'm not overweight.
I've just been in very good shape and I'm lucky to say that.
(19:30):
You know, I think he looked at me and said your outlook is
really good. And I'm as I say, I'm living
proof that guess it is. I don't do you know, I gave a
speech at the opening of the newcellular and genetic research
laboratories at Roswell that were opened a while ago.
So Roswell Park is now has been really taking a stand to really
(19:53):
devote the research and development of drugs at Roswell
for Car T and CAR T is being used for the blood cancers,
leukemia, lymphoma, multiple myeloma.
And I think there's a, a breast cancer, one type of breast
cancer and another type that CART is being used for.
But but the research that they're doing here in Roswell
(20:17):
and New York State approach, well, New York State approach
Sloan in New York, but they didn't have the space to
dedicated to doing this. Roswell did and so New York
State and some private investment and some partners in
industry are have developed thishub for research and they put in
now a total of 20 clean rooms. It's the largest gene and
(20:41):
cellular therapy and Research Center or therapeutics in the
country and maybe the world. One of the guys, we did a tour
and they asked me to, to speak at the opening with all the
media, which is kind of how I, Igot introduced to all the
research or some of the interviews that I've done and,
(21:03):
and interviewed on camera, on TVand so on.
And I got there and I said, well, how long before I said,
how long do you want me to speak?
And he said 3 minutes or so and I said, OK, so I ran a little
over. But in any event, I got there
and the government, they said the governor would be there, but
the governor introduced me. And I kind of realized at that
(21:27):
point that I was the keynote speaker.
And, but I, I think I did a goodjob and I spoke about my journey
and, and then we rang the bell, which they have on as a cancer
survivor. And then since then I've had, I
interviewed with some of the local TV stations and a number
(21:51):
of other newslet outlets, Albanyand a couple of others around
the Northeast primarily. So, yeah, I'm, I'm glad as I
say, I'm glad to do anything I can to help Roswell Park and
anything I can to that helps patients and their families and
(22:12):
to to know or learn that there are therapies out there and
their therapies coming for othertypes of cancers.
Because the research is going soquickly on what they can do to
fight not only the blood cancers, but other ones and
doing having the funds to do theresearch.
(22:32):
You know, we hope that the current budget that the federal
government looking at and would hope that they really put an
emphasis on this research to help so many people face
difficult diagnosis in many types of cancer.
Well, we always enjoy having celebrities on this podcast, so.
Talk about this one. Well, now I I've always said
(22:53):
it's, it's been my 15 minutes offame.
It just keeps extending a littlebit longer than 15 minutes, but
that's fine. That's good.
Yeah. Stretch it into 153045 an hour.
Yeah. Keep milking it.
Keep milking. It well, every as I say I'm, I
am so incredibly fortunate that as I said to Rosa, I'll do
(23:13):
anything that you ask of me, youknow, to pay it back and pay it
forward in some sense. I didn't connect soon enough
that my, my niece's husband is aresearcher at Roswell.
So I'm going to have to follow up with them and see, you know,
what exactly he's researching and because I know he's doing
Cancer Research there, so it'd be kind of interesting.
(23:34):
He's kind of involved in the work he.
Could be part of, I mean, I think there's many different
research components at Roswell, but he could be part of the car
T facility for the, you know, genetic and cellular research
area. It's amazing stuff and and AI is
really contributing to them being able to map out quickly
(23:58):
the effects of genetic modifications.
It's just the exciting stuff. It's like the new frontier of of
medicine in many ways and in therapies.
So we keep our fingers crossed for everybody.
Yeah, it's exciting. And so you have got kind of a
new chance at life. What are some of the things that
(24:18):
you prioritize now that you may not have prioritized before?
I think you prioritize what you do with your time.
You know the people you want to be around and your families.
I mean, I'm so lucky to have metKaren and and how beautifully
our families have come together.Karen's a little.
I'm married into grandchildren, which was great, and she has
(24:42):
three and I have 3. And so when we were married,
there were two on her side, noneon mine.
There are now 7 on her side and two on mine with one on the way.
So between the ages of in vitro and due in May to age 20.
And it's our, our, I adore her family, She loves mine.
(25:07):
And we just have, when everybodygets together or just being with
all of them, as you know, with family, when, when you have an
outlook that I have is you're just fortunate to have that time
and to have those relationships and see those kids grow up.
I have a daughter, my oldest is Down syndrome and she lives
(25:27):
close by. She's very independent.
And I would say that Karen is asmuch a mother to her as my late
wife Charlotte was. So we're really blessed in that
way. So I think you, you know, you
just say here are the things we want to do.
Me right now. I've sort of been been at, there
(25:48):
are a lot of places I'd like to travel.
And we, we, we've done some trips and I keep telling her
we're making up for lost time. We're just going to do it.
I'm not not waiting. I don't know how long my shelf
life is, but we're going to liveas best as we can.
So. Have the motto Carpe memento,
you know, seize the. Moment, yes.
You you realize that, you know, hopefully most of us will
(26:10):
realize that before we get into a situation where it's like we
we see in a sense kind of life flash before us, you know, that
that manality of life. And so you got it, you know, an
opportunity to really kind of gofor the gustos.
Yeah, you do. I think, I think it's a it's a
greater appreciation for having a healthy family and
(26:31):
appreciation for having many friends.
And I have friends from high school, college, local, just a
wide array. And I'm thankful for all of them
and the support that I've had and just being able to share
life with each and everyone. Hey, so you've.
Been able to return to activities that you love such as
(26:53):
tennis, family time, You've evendiscovered new love.
Well, what would you say has been the most rewarding part of
this new chapter? Having the, the energy and the
strength to really live a normallife, that's the reward rather
than trying to walk upstairs andnot be out of breath, trying to
(27:15):
walk around halfway around the block and not being able to do
it. Rewarding is just that feeling
of, of normalcy. It doesn't have to be, you know,
a major moment. It's a cumulative sense of
recovery and normalcy and and then adapting that that
(27:37):
appreciation too. I'm currently, I've been lucky
also, I was asked to be a president of our local tennis
and squash club here. And so I've really been engaged
over the last year and a half for a major project that we've
done and just sort of another I had to hire a new general
manager. And I think it's just been a
(27:58):
gratification that those have all turned out really well and
on in working with a small team to do that.
It's it's I'm thankful for that opportunity to have done that.
Really. So if I'd been in in lousy
shape, I probably wouldn't have accepted the, you know, the the
offer to. Sounds like you've taken on the
(28:21):
attitude of gratitude that we we've pushed on this podcast for
the spelling of gratitude to have. 2TS.
And so it sounds like you've adopted.
That pretty well. Very much so, yes.
So do you have any advice for others who are battling lymphoma
or other forms of cancer? The best advice I can give is is
that there are therapies out there now.
(28:42):
There are things that are changing and I'm sure if they're
in good hands and have a good hospital, do what the doctors
tell you to do take your pills when you're supposed to take
your pills. Try to lead a healthy life in
the meantime while you're while you're going through any kind of
therapy. But but just a sense of hope
(29:04):
that this new therapy car T gives along with other ones that
it's not hopefully not a dire situation, that there are ways
to get through it and that hopefully they have the support
of family and friends to go through that process.
What do you wish more people knew about blood cancers than
(29:25):
the latest treatments? The the latest advancement in
treatments. Well, I think, I think if you
read different, I, I happen to consume a fair amount of news,
maybe not too much on occasion. I, I was aware of car T just in
reading some articles and seeingsomething come up about new
(29:47):
therapies. And so I, I don't go into
technical reading, but just enough from different news
outlets to read about that. And I'm sure if people Google,
you know, car T Google other therapies that might be out
(30:08):
there that that just gives them that sense of here's what's
available and here's what's hopefully coming.
So. So how is your experience shaped
the way you think about resilience and aging?
Resilience and aging. I wish I hit the golf ball
farther. I mean, that's back on the, I'm
back on the golf course, but I hit 70 aged 70 in October.
(30:32):
And you know, sometimes I think,well, am I not hitting it as far
because I've come through canceror is it because I'm 70?
Well, I don't know what the answer is, but I know that it's
a fact and I still play a decentgame.
I used to be competitive and played in college and then
afterwards on the competitive level.
(30:53):
But now I've just, I know it's the enjoyment of being out on a
beautiful green grass golf course, wherever that is with
friends or people that you enjoyplaying with and and taking part
and doing that. So you just need to take that
$900 you're saving from drugs and invested in the new Golf.
(31:14):
Clubs because obviously that my basement looks a little bit like
a pro shop right now. I do tinker a lot.
I've always been a tinker. I used to re shaft clubs and,
and I always regrip clubs here and there and I've got probably
4 different drivers down there depending on which one.
I'm getting a new shaft here andthere to try.
(31:36):
And so I'm a tinkerer in that respect.
I also, but I also do a lot of work around the house.
We have this house in Canada andI do a lot of things, stay busy
up there sort of as I say. And I've got some rental
property here in Buffalo close by right down our street.
So I I can do a little bit of plumbing, a little electrical, a
(31:56):
little bit of carpentry and thing painting and things like
that. But I know now just where I can
get to and say, no, I'm going tohire somebody to, to do that
work. I don't have the time and
inclination. I got a lot of tools to be able
to do it. But I think I've sort of said,
OK, I'm I, I can do the easy things.
(32:18):
But yeah, I think it's just sortof part of what I've always sort
of done to learn if, if I don't have to pay for it, I can do
those little projects around thehouse.
Yep. All right, so what's next for
you in this new phase of life? Do you have any goals or
aspirations? Yeah, we're going away and we're
going away in the end of May offto England for 10 days.
(32:42):
We did a, we did a cruise in September, Viking cruise from
Budapest to Vienna to Prague. And we rented a place in Florida
for the month of February. My wife about 3 years ago said,
look, I want to get out of Buffalo during some time in the
winter time. I said, OK, find a place, which
(33:03):
we did on the East Coast and it was great.
There's a tennis court so I can get up and play tennis with
groups in the morning. There's a little par 3 golf
course, short nine holes that weaves through and I can walk
over and hook up games easy and just sort of, you know, beat up
golf ball around a little bit. And the beach is there that she
(33:25):
loves. And so.
So that's been yeah. And we're doing it next year
again too. So I've got some other ideas of
some trips we sort of chat from.I I traveled all over the world
when I worked in the US and I was in international sales.
So I've done a lot of traveling.Now I want to travel for
(33:47):
pleasure and to see some sights and good food.
Why would anyone want to get outof Buffalo in February?
I don't know. Yeah.
Well, I grew up skating in my backyard in the middle of
downtown Buffalo and, and I skated from the time I was six
years old and played in high school and college at A at a
(34:09):
fairly high level And, and I don't really put the skates on
anymore. I had, I blew my shoulder up
playing squash. I have a shoulder replacement.
And so that's that. And, and you know, compromise
kept me off the squash court, but now I'm playing tennis.
It's sore occasionally, but I'm playing.
(34:30):
It doesn't bother my golf game. That's good.
So you talk about skating. We did.
Was it hockey or sport then? In college?
Yes. Oh, nice.
So are you a, you know, Boston fan or I'm from Pittsburgh, so
you. Know are you?
Are you a Penguins? Fan.
You're a Penguins fan? Oh yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah.
(34:50):
You know, I used to when, when the Sabres started back in,
gosh, it was I think 72 in Buffalo, my dad had season
tickets and it was close by. It was in the old War Memorial
Stadium, the odd rather, and, and you sat very close to the
(35:10):
ice and the Sabres had an exciting team with Randy Robear
and Jill Perot and Rick Martin. And it was, it was fabulous to
watch. And as I got older, I don't tend
to, I don't have season tickets.My dad, once they move to the
new stadium, I think maybe he gave him up for that.
But you know, I'm, I guess I'm kind of a fair weather Sabres
(35:33):
fan. If they're doing well, I'll pay
attention. If they're not, I, I may look at
A at a game recap. That's about it.
The Bills, however, attract a lot of attention in Buffalo, as
I'm sure you're sort of aware. And there's when the Bills are
playing well, it's really fun towatch and get excited about
(35:54):
seeing that. I'm not the kind of guy that
puts on all the the Bills stuff.I'm just try to keep my wife
calm during the game and sit back and watch, watch football.
And obviously Josh Allen here. It's it's been really exciting
since the Jim Kelly years and Thurman Thomas and those guys.
(36:17):
It's it's kind of fun again, so.My sister went to college with
Daryl Talley and. Where was that?
At West Virginia University, Yeah.
So he was, he was so much fun towatch when I was in high school.
And I'd go, you know, down to the games and, and see him.
And I think it was Delbert Fowler was the other defensive
(36:38):
end that those guys would just be back and forth, intercepting
passes and sacking the quarterback.
And it was just such an excitingtime.
And then he did so well in Buffalo.
Yeah. I went, you know, the Bills went
to four straight and I went to the last one hoping, OK, maybe
this, you know, four times charm.
Not quite, but that's a pretty impressive track record for that
(37:00):
era to be four straight. Now it would be even harder.
I mean, Kansas City's been our nemesis.
But you know, with free agency and and salary caps and the
movement of players, it's a little harder.
But I think if you have a strongleader and Josh Allen and that
grew up, they put together and really they stress character,
(37:24):
they're no prima donnas I think at this point, which is really
good. Yeah, we'll see how my Steelers
do if they can ever find an old enough quarterback for them.
See how my Steelers do if they can find an old.
That's right. Yeah.
I think I read something about them looking.
They had a couple names that were on the radar.
Aaron Rodgers is supposed to be signing with them.
It's like bring an old quarterback.
Maybe we just break down and bring in Kelly or not Kelly, you
(37:47):
know, not Kelly, but Brady. It's got me on Kelly.
All right. Well we have a question we ask
of all our guests and what are you doing especially after your
battle with non Hodgkin lymphomato age well?
To do what? Age?
To age well, not think about it.You know, as much as I can, you
(38:08):
know, with a little bit of graying hair in the spot up here
where I'm using and you know, goto the dermatologist.
I think it's just living a good life, being happy.
Just try to find that comfort level for your, for yourself,
for your spouse, for your friends, for your family and
(38:29):
appreciate it. You know, I've heard so much
about I'm living my best life and that means different things
to different people. To me, it's enjoying where I am.
And I have to say, I think, you know, part, I oftentimes think,
gosh, I wish I knew what I know now.
I wish I knew when I was back incollege.
And I think a lot of people, youknow, wish that as well.
(38:54):
I'm a lot wiser about my time and friends and, and
perspective. And I think it's I have an
appreciation for that too, from experiences.
We all learn from our mistakes. Luckily I didn't have any big
ones IS. There anything else that you'd
like to share with our listenersabout your journey or a message
of hope? Left, which I said was that
(39:17):
there's with science now changing in science on the
forefront, there's so much more coming along and I really
sincerely believe we're on the new frontier of of medicine in
this country. As long as we can keep the
funding. And I do donate to Roswell and
I've ridden in the ride and, andaccumulated some dollars to that
(39:40):
is to really support, if you can, those institutions that are
doing that research that are caring for for patients and
knowing that there's more out there.
And hopefully we'll kick this atsome point in the future.
Well, Chris, this has been a really heartwarming and
fascinating conversation. I really appreciate having
(40:01):
having you on today. I appreciate your attitude and
in this podcast we often talk about.
Our six pillars of. Aging well, which is to exercise
and get physical activity, eat ahealthy diet, maintain a healthy
body composition, don't smoke, get good sleep hygiene.
And most importantly, I think we've been learning the
(40:22):
importance of strong social connections.
And I think you underscored thattoday.
Just kind of talking about your attitude of gratitude, the sense
of kind of living in the moment and, you know, just living a
life to its fullest and enjoyingthe relationships that you have
and just making wise choices. This has been a great
(40:44):
conversation. I appreciate you having me on
and I'm so glad that this has been a successful therapy for
you. Thank you.
And we certainly wish you all the best and just keep aging
well. Great.
Thank you for contacting me and doing this, and hopefully that
people who hear it see it will come away with a sense of hope
(41:05):
and appreciation and anything I can do to help, as I say, glad
to. Thank you for listening.
I hope you benefited from today's podcast and until next
time, keep aging. Well.
Welcome to the Aging Well Podcast, where we explore the
many facets of healthy aging, longevity and resilience.
In this episode, we are joined by a truly inspiring guest,
Chris Vogelsong, who has faced and overcome immense challenges
in his journey with Non Hodgkin Lymphoma.
Diagnosed 14 years ago, Chris underwent multiple treatments
before being presented with a groundbreaking approach.
(00:29):
Chimeric antigen receptor T cell.
Therapy at Roswell Park. Comprehensive Cancer Center in
Buffalo, NY Now nearly two yearsinto remission, Chris is
embracing life to the fullest, playing tennis, spending time
with his grandchildren, and evendiscovering love again.
In this episode, we'll talk withChris about his battle with
lymphoma, the impact of CAR T cell therapy, and how he's
(00:51):
making the most of his second chance at life.
His story is 1 of perseverance, hope, and the incredible
advancements in cancer treatment.
Chris. Welcome to the Aging Well
podcast. Before we begin, let's have you
tell our viewers and our listeners about yourself and
take us back to the moment of your initial diagnosis.
What were your first thoughts and emotions?
(01:13):
So my initial diagnosis goes wayback to about 2008 when I had
gone in just for a regular bloodcheck with my physician and I
had a low platelet count. And I then went to my General
practitioner physician and he felt in my stomach and he said,
(01:38):
I think you have an enlarged spleen.
And I said, well, what would that indicate?
He said that's possible lymphoma.
So it was sort of a, and I've been very healthy for years.
I've never had any comorbidities, no type of
diabetes are overweight. I've always been active.
I've always been an athlete bothin high school and college and
(02:01):
then beyond. And so it sort of struck me as a
real shot. But he caught it so early in the
process that I then went to Roswell and they said, you are
so early with this, we're just going to wait and watch and on
that protocol. And then once my spleen got
(02:22):
large enough, they said, OK, it's time to treat this.
And they did the typical bone marrow biopsy and blood work and
determined that I had a type of cancer, lymphoma that was an
aggressive 1. So he said we're going to treat
it aggressively. So I had my first stem cell
(02:42):
transplant in really the fall of2009.
And and that was completed, oh, I think up until about because
it was a process of retirement, it was a stem cell with my own
cells versus having a donor a match per SE.
And that was completed in about February of 2010.
(03:09):
Did I say 2000 O nine yeah, to 2010.
So that was the initial and fromthere on I was in in really good
shape. It took me about a year to gain
back the £35 that I had lost with the chemo rounds and
everything and but within eight months to a year or so I was
(03:29):
feeling up to where I was before.
That was fine until I had a regular scope in my to have a
colonoscopy and they saw a little bit of something and they
they did the biopsy and the cancer had returned, but it
wasn't evident in anything else other than their.
(03:52):
So they watched that and they put me on a pill at that .1 of
the biologic cancer, the chemotherapy pills called
Imbruvica, one of those really expensive ones.
And luckily throughout all this,I had really good insurance.
But in any event, I was on that for about 3 1/2 years.
(04:15):
And in the fall of 2022, I couldfeel my my energy level just
declining. I was having night sweats, I was
losing weight. So I knew that something was
going on. And I scheduled to come in and
see my doctor, oncologist at Roswell in the Leukemia Lymphoma
(04:38):
center and they did some tests and said, OK, it's back and we
need to treat it. And by then I knew enough about
CAR T and I said, So what are myoptions?
First one was the another stem cell transplant but with a donor
we had I had 100% batch and the other one was car T and I said
(05:03):
So what? What would you recommend?
He said car T for the best quality of life.
I said I, I suspected, but I just wanted to hear it from the
doctor. So I started CAR T at the end of
probably November, I think we started and that was rounds of
chemo scheduled for three roundsof chemo from November into
(05:26):
January of 2023. And after two rounds my lymphoma
was totally clear. So whatever cocktail of
chemotherapy drugs I had taken really cleared it right out,
which was good. And then as I don't, are you
(05:48):
fairly aware of Car T in that whole process?
I think we'll be asking you somequestions about that just to
kind of clarify it all for the. Listeners and the viewers so car
T was the process by which they they remove your T cells, one of
your B cells, T cells or your line of of blood cells that
(06:11):
fight all different sorts of colds and whatnot.
And they took out my T cells andthen sent them to a laboratory
to be genetically modified. And then once they were came
back in and I had the those transplanted in March of 2023,
(06:32):
it was again, I lost a fair amount of weight.
It was I think I was in Roswell is an impatient 8 solid 8 weeks
not solid, but at various times I did have an infection, which
was not great early on in the process.
So that's sort of dumped me backinto Roswell for a couple weeks
(06:53):
too. So I came out in March.
I had a little bit of neurotoxicity, which is an
effect of car T for some people and just to make me a little
edgy, a little shaky, I guess. But that subsided after about 3
(07:14):
weeks or so, I would say. And I asked the doctor, I said
how long is, is it going to takeme to recover from this?
And they said it'll probably be about a year.
And I would say they were right.It's, you know, a long haul to
gain back the weight and to get the strength back to where I am
now. I've always been a golfer and
(07:37):
during COVID I I played squash for 40 years and during COVID I
switched over to tennis. My squash was on a double squash
court with three other guys and my oncologist said probably not
a good idea to be in a small room with three other guys
huffing and puffing. So I went to tennis, which I
(07:57):
hadn't played in many years, andnow I'm playing regularly and I
love it. We're in Buffalo, NY, so we're
playing indoors and then once golf season picks up, I'm back
out on the golf course. So back to really feeling well
and happy for Roswell, happy forcar tea.
I'm just fortunate and lucky that when I went on to that
(08:20):
pill, that gave me enough time, that three-year time period for
Roswell then to start doing car tea because it hadn't been I
think before that time when I got it.
It's still been in clinical trials in Sloane and then Boston
to Dana Farber, maybe some other, especially in
(08:43):
Philadelphia where it was reallydeveloped.
So I was lucky that by the time I needed that treatment it was
then available and they had the track record with it.
Over the 14 years since you died, since you've been
diagnosed, what were some of thebiggest challenges that you
faced? Yes, it's a good question.
(09:03):
I think the challenge is keepingyour attitude positive.
I mean, for me, because I've always been so active, my sense
was OK, I've got to do this and I know I want to come out at the
other end healthy and back to mynormal life.
So I never, never had a sense of, of doom.
(09:26):
I think it was always OK. It's not a, it's not a diagnosis
of six months, 8 months, a year,whatever it was.
You can come out and, and, and they won't say cured, I think
with car T until they have a number of years where patients
are free of cancer. I think to me, it was really
(09:47):
looking forward and just stayingpositive at what my outcome
would be. Now I will say one of the most
difficult times that I did have was during my first transplant.
It was a time when my wife, my late wife was also going through
cancer treatment. So both of us were in that
(10:08):
predicament. I would say she had breast
cancer that metastasized to her liver and that was something
that was too severe for her to overcome.
And she passed away in May of 2010.
So I had just finished my first stem cell transplant and then
(10:29):
she passed away. So that was sort of the, the, if
there was any challenge, it was staying level headed and
positive at least as well as I could for, you know, my family
and friends just to get through that part of my life.
Yeah, I was not aware that you had lost your wife in the
(10:49):
process of all this. Sorry for your loss and thank
you. As you think of the, you know,
the challenge of going through and battling cancer itself is
challenging enough. I can imagine.
I mean, I have not gone through it, but doing it in parallel
with a spouse who's all you knowwhose terminal, that's got to be
tremendously challenging. How did?
What did you do to? Maintain your motivation and a
(11:13):
positive mindset during those periods of, you know, your
wife's decline and your multiplerelapses.
I think you try as best you can to get back into the rhythm of
life. It's the mundane things.
It's cooking, it's cleaning, it's grocery shopping.
It's, you know, whatever, whatever you need to do, you
just sort of do and, and you go to the hospital with your wife
(11:36):
or support her as much as you can.
And I think, I mean, while I hadn't, I, I had recovered
enough so that I was not, you know, totally debilitated.
I could walk, get around and do what I needed to do and to help
her. And she wanted to go down to
South Carolina and see a specialist, which we did.
(11:58):
So driving her down there. And so, you know, it's, I think
I had a lot of support from her and I gave her a lot of support.
And I was remarried. I met my wife about four months
after my first wife passed away.And I would say I'm happily
married, incredibly fortunate tohave met my current wife, Karen.
(12:23):
And, and you know, during this past session of my car T, she
was as supportive as I could expect any person to be.
She's just fabulous, pretty lucky in so many ways.
So what I know you kind of touched on this earlier, but
what is chimeric antigen receptors or CAR T therapy and
(12:46):
what led you to consider this asthe option?
I had, I had talked to my ecologist, Dr. Hernandez at
Roswell during the time that I was on that pill and I think he
brought up car T would be available.
And so I, I sort of did some reading, but really the
(13:07):
education from him of the basicsand you know, the, the cellular
level, the biologic level, the incredible science that goes
behind it to figure out how you modify AT cell, You know, what
do you do to attach it's proteins that seek out lymphoma
(13:29):
cells. That stuff is, that's not my
language. I mean, my language is here's
what it does. This is what it's, it's
programmed to do is go after andattack lymphoma cells.
So, you know, from that standpoint, I'm not a scientist.
I'm not, you know, in biology I was always in sales management
(13:53):
and so on. And so that was about as best as
I could understand it, which is pretty much all I needed to know
in many ways. I didn't.
I don't think I approached treatment at any time saying,
well, what are the what are the downfalls?
What are the what are the bad things that can happen?
I don't my mind mind isn't programmed that way.
(14:14):
My mind is programmed to say, OK, here's the challenge.
You get through it. Put your chin up and and make
the most of it and as best as you can.
Champion mentality. I I think so.
I think so, yeah. The attitude of an athlete.
You sort of have to, yeah, learnfrom your mistakes and keep your
(14:35):
head up and keep going. You.
Probably sound like the majorityof our listeners and viewers who
might be in a position you have to kind of consider therapy.
It's like, I don't need to know the science, just tell me is it
going to work and what do I haveto do?
And and so you went to a few different treatment options.
How has your treatment experience kind of compared you
(14:57):
know, with the cart versus the the previous therapies that you
did? Well, I would say the stem cell,
the first transplant and then the cart T transplant were
really pretty similar. I lost my hair, I lost weight.
You know, chemo takes the heck alot of stuff out of you.
And so they're pretty, they werepretty comparable.
(15:22):
In both cases, it took pretty much eight months to a year to
recover. So it's, it's almost a tie, I
think. I think.
Well, I do think there's one difference is back in 2009, they
didn't have the drugs to help with the nausea.
And, you know, just that whole sense of not being able to keep
(15:46):
food down and, and that it's much more improved.
And I've talked to people who'vegone through transplants since
and they've come up, they have some drugs that have really
helped mitigate that terrible nausea feeling.
So I hadn't thought about that until just now.
But yeah, that would be the the big difference is is you're
tired. You don't necessarily want to
(16:07):
eat. But I didn't feel as nauseated
as I did in first transplant. Now the other other when I was
on the pill, minor side effects with with a pill for 3 1/2
years. The only side effect was a very
large monthly payment for the that was one of those biologics
(16:30):
that President Biden was lookingat targeted.
There were 5 or 6 he wants that they were trying to bring the
price down. After my insurance, I was still
paying on average $935 a month for that pill.
So I hit the I hit the doughnut hole on that one.
At some point, you know, you do what you got to do.
(16:50):
I'm fortunate to be able to havetaken on that cost in my life.
And but just some minor things. I had sort of dry hands and lots
of splits and some other things in my fingers, but nothing that
I would say would be traumatic. Yeah.
You've shared a lot of kind of like life shifting changes that
(17:14):
have taken place as you've embarked on this journey.
But what What were the biggest changes that you would say you
had noticed after undergoing CART cell therapy?
I'm not sure that there were huge, you know, moments of aha.
I think I came out with feeling progressively better as the
(17:38):
months went by and appetite coming back, getting stronger,
being more active. You know, remember, this was
also just before COVID set in. So we really changed.
I'm fortunate I have a house. I'm in Buffalo, NY, at western
end of New York State, and we'reright along the Canadian border.
(18:02):
And I have a house over in Canada on the North Shore of
Lake Erie about it's only half an hour or so from where I'm
sitting now in Buffalo. And we couldn't get into Canada.
Canada closed the border during COVID, so we couldn't get in
that summer. And then they closed the border
for about almost a little over half of the summer, the next
(18:25):
one. So while I was sort of
recovering, I would say I was, we did a lot of walking around
the city. We'd go to some nature preserves
just to get out and be active and get some sunshine and do
that. And still my wife and I still do
a fair amount of walking, playing golf, and I'd get
together with friends and play different courses.
(18:47):
So that I would say that's one of the things that that helped
with my attitude and with my body recovering.
Did you have any concerns or fears as you kind of went into
this new treatment approach? Not really.
Not really. I I knew it was a transplant.
I knew other people had done it.Doctor Hernandez gave me
(19:09):
basically the sense years after three years of percentage, which
is very high of successful transplants.
And I, as I said, it didn't havediabetes, I didn't have any
heart issues. I'm not overweight.
I've just been in very good shape and I'm lucky to say that.
(19:30):
You know, I think he looked at me and said your outlook is
really good. And I'm as I say, I'm living
proof that guess it is. I don't do you know, I gave a
speech at the opening of the newcellular and genetic research
laboratories at Roswell that were opened a while ago.
So Roswell Park is now has been really taking a stand to really
(19:53):
devote the research and development of drugs at Roswell
for Car T and CAR T is being used for the blood cancers,
leukemia, lymphoma, multiple myeloma.
And I think there's a, a breast cancer, one type of breast
cancer and another type that CART is being used for.
But but the research that they're doing here in Roswell
(20:17):
and New York State approach, well, New York State approach
Sloan in New York, but they didn't have the space to
dedicated to doing this. Roswell did and so New York
State and some private investment and some partners in
industry are have developed thishub for research and they put in
now a total of 20 clean rooms. It's the largest gene and
(20:41):
cellular therapy and Research Center or therapeutics in the
country and maybe the world. One of the guys, we did a tour
and they asked me to, to speak at the opening with all the
media, which is kind of how I, Igot introduced to all the
research or some of the interviews that I've done and,
(21:03):
and interviewed on camera, on TVand so on.
And I got there and I said, well, how long before I said,
how long do you want me to speak?
And he said 3 minutes or so and I said, OK, so I ran a little
over. But in any event, I got there
and the government, they said the governor would be there, but
the governor introduced me. And I kind of realized at that
(21:27):
point that I was the keynote speaker.
And, but I, I think I did a goodjob and I spoke about my journey
and, and then we rang the bell, which they have on as a cancer
survivor. And then since then I've had, I
interviewed with some of the local TV stations and a number
(21:51):
of other newslet outlets, Albanyand a couple of others around
the Northeast primarily. So, yeah, I'm, I'm glad as I
say, I'm glad to do anything I can to help Roswell Park and
anything I can to that helps patients and their families and
(22:12):
to to know or learn that there are therapies out there and
their therapies coming for othertypes of cancers.
Because the research is going soquickly on what they can do to
fight not only the blood cancers, but other ones and
doing having the funds to do theresearch.
(22:32):
You know, we hope that the current budget that the federal
government looking at and would hope that they really put an
emphasis on this research to help so many people face
difficult diagnosis in many types of cancer.
Well, we always enjoy having celebrities on this podcast, so.
Talk about this one. Well, now I I've always said
(22:53):
it's, it's been my 15 minutes offame.
It just keeps extending a littlebit longer than 15 minutes, but
that's fine. That's good.
Yeah. Stretch it into 153045 an hour.
Yeah. Keep milking it.
Keep milking. It well, every as I say I'm, I
am so incredibly fortunate that as I said to Rosa, I'll do
(23:13):
anything that you ask of me, youknow, to pay it back and pay it
forward in some sense. I didn't connect soon enough
that my, my niece's husband is aresearcher at Roswell.
So I'm going to have to follow up with them and see, you know,
what exactly he's researching and because I know he's doing
Cancer Research there, so it'd be kind of interesting.
(23:34):
He's kind of involved in the work he.
Could be part of, I mean, I think there's many different
research components at Roswell, but he could be part of the car
T facility for the, you know, genetic and cellular research
area. It's amazing stuff and and AI is
really contributing to them being able to map out quickly
(23:58):
the effects of genetic modifications.
It's just the exciting stuff. It's like the new frontier of of
medicine in many ways and in therapies.
So we keep our fingers crossed for everybody.
Yeah, it's exciting. And so you have got kind of a
new chance at life. What are some of the things that
(24:18):
you prioritize now that you may not have prioritized before?
I think you prioritize what you do with your time.
You know the people you want to be around and your families.
I mean, I'm so lucky to have metKaren and and how beautifully
our families have come together.Karen's a little.
I'm married into grandchildren, which was great, and she has
(24:42):
three and I have 3. And so when we were married,
there were two on her side, noneon mine.
There are now 7 on her side and two on mine with one on the way.
So between the ages of in vitro and due in May to age 20.
And it's our, our, I adore her family, She loves mine.
(25:07):
And we just have, when everybodygets together or just being with
all of them, as you know, with family, when, when you have an
outlook that I have is you're just fortunate to have that time
and to have those relationships and see those kids grow up.
I have a daughter, my oldest is Down syndrome and she lives
(25:27):
close by. She's very independent.
And I would say that Karen is asmuch a mother to her as my late
wife Charlotte was. So we're really blessed in that
way. So I think you, you know, you
just say here are the things we want to do.
Me right now. I've sort of been been at, there
(25:48):
are a lot of places I'd like to travel.
And we, we, we've done some trips and I keep telling her
we're making up for lost time. We're just going to do it.
I'm not not waiting. I don't know how long my shelf
life is, but we're going to liveas best as we can.
So. Have the motto Carpe memento,
you know, seize the. Moment, yes.
You you realize that, you know, hopefully most of us will
(26:10):
realize that before we get into a situation where it's like we
we see in a sense kind of life flash before us, you know, that
that manality of life. And so you got it, you know, an
opportunity to really kind of gofor the gustos.
Yeah, you do. I think, I think it's a it's a
greater appreciation for having a healthy family and
(26:31):
appreciation for having many friends.
And I have friends from high school, college, local, just a
wide array. And I'm thankful for all of them
and the support that I've had and just being able to share
life with each and everyone. Hey, so you've.
Been able to return to activities that you love such as
(26:53):
tennis, family time, You've evendiscovered new love.
Well, what would you say has been the most rewarding part of
this new chapter? Having the, the energy and the
strength to really live a normallife, that's the reward rather
than trying to walk upstairs andnot be out of breath, trying to
(27:15):
walk around halfway around the block and not being able to do
it. Rewarding is just that feeling
of, of normalcy. It doesn't have to be, you know,
a major moment. It's a cumulative sense of
recovery and normalcy and and then adapting that that
(27:37):
appreciation too. I'm currently, I've been lucky
also, I was asked to be a president of our local tennis
and squash club here. And so I've really been engaged
over the last year and a half for a major project that we've
done and just sort of another I had to hire a new general
manager. And I think it's just been a
(27:58):
gratification that those have all turned out really well and
on in working with a small team to do that.
It's it's I'm thankful for that opportunity to have done that.
Really. So if I'd been in in lousy
shape, I probably wouldn't have accepted the, you know, the the
offer to. Sounds like you've taken on the
(28:21):
attitude of gratitude that we we've pushed on this podcast for
the spelling of gratitude to have. 2TS.
And so it sounds like you've adopted.
That pretty well. Very much so, yes.
So do you have any advice for others who are battling lymphoma
or other forms of cancer? The best advice I can give is is
that there are therapies out there now.
(28:42):
There are things that are changing and I'm sure if they're
in good hands and have a good hospital, do what the doctors
tell you to do take your pills when you're supposed to take
your pills. Try to lead a healthy life in
the meantime while you're while you're going through any kind of
therapy. But but just a sense of hope
(29:04):
that this new therapy car T gives along with other ones that
it's not hopefully not a dire situation, that there are ways
to get through it and that hopefully they have the support
of family and friends to go through that process.
What do you wish more people knew about blood cancers than
(29:25):
the latest treatments? The the latest advancement in
treatments. Well, I think, I think if you
read different, I, I happen to consume a fair amount of news,
maybe not too much on occasion. I, I was aware of car T just in
reading some articles and seeingsomething come up about new
(29:47):
therapies. And so I, I don't go into
technical reading, but just enough from different news
outlets to read about that. And I'm sure if people Google,
you know, car T Google other therapies that might be out
(30:08):
there that that just gives them that sense of here's what's
available and here's what's hopefully coming.
So. So how is your experience shaped
the way you think about resilience and aging?
Resilience and aging. I wish I hit the golf ball
farther. I mean, that's back on the, I'm
back on the golf course, but I hit 70 aged 70 in October.
(30:32):
And you know, sometimes I think,well, am I not hitting it as far
because I've come through canceror is it because I'm 70?
Well, I don't know what the answer is, but I know that it's
a fact and I still play a decentgame.
I used to be competitive and played in college and then
afterwards on the competitive level.
(30:53):
But now I've just, I know it's the enjoyment of being out on a
beautiful green grass golf course, wherever that is with
friends or people that you enjoyplaying with and and taking part
and doing that. So you just need to take that
$900 you're saving from drugs and invested in the new Golf.
(31:14):
Clubs because obviously that my basement looks a little bit like
a pro shop right now. I do tinker a lot.
I've always been a tinker. I used to re shaft clubs and,
and I always regrip clubs here and there and I've got probably
4 different drivers down there depending on which one.
I'm getting a new shaft here andthere to try.
(31:36):
And so I'm a tinkerer in that respect.
I also, but I also do a lot of work around the house.
We have this house in Canada andI do a lot of things, stay busy
up there sort of as I say. And I've got some rental
property here in Buffalo close by right down our street.
So I I can do a little bit of plumbing, a little electrical, a
(31:56):
little bit of carpentry and thing painting and things like
that. But I know now just where I can
get to and say, no, I'm going tohire somebody to, to do that
work. I don't have the time and
inclination. I got a lot of tools to be able
to do it. But I think I've sort of said,
OK, I'm I, I can do the easy things.
(32:18):
But yeah, I think it's just sortof part of what I've always sort
of done to learn if, if I don't have to pay for it, I can do
those little projects around thehouse.
Yep. All right, so what's next for
you in this new phase of life? Do you have any goals or
aspirations? Yeah, we're going away and we're
going away in the end of May offto England for 10 days.
(32:42):
We did a, we did a cruise in September, Viking cruise from
Budapest to Vienna to Prague. And we rented a place in Florida
for the month of February. My wife about 3 years ago said,
look, I want to get out of Buffalo during some time in the
winter time. I said, OK, find a place, which
(33:03):
we did on the East Coast and it was great.
There's a tennis court so I can get up and play tennis with
groups in the morning. There's a little par 3 golf
course, short nine holes that weaves through and I can walk
over and hook up games easy and just sort of, you know, beat up
golf ball around a little bit. And the beach is there that she
(33:25):
loves. And so.
So that's been yeah. And we're doing it next year
again too. So I've got some other ideas of
some trips we sort of chat from.I I traveled all over the world
when I worked in the US and I was in international sales.
So I've done a lot of traveling.Now I want to travel for
(33:47):
pleasure and to see some sights and good food.
Why would anyone want to get outof Buffalo in February?
I don't know. Yeah.
Well, I grew up skating in my backyard in the middle of
downtown Buffalo and, and I skated from the time I was six
years old and played in high school and college at A at a
(34:09):
fairly high level And, and I don't really put the skates on
anymore. I had, I blew my shoulder up
playing squash. I have a shoulder replacement.
And so that's that. And, and you know, compromise
kept me off the squash court, but now I'm playing tennis.
It's sore occasionally, but I'm playing.
(34:30):
It doesn't bother my golf game. That's good.
So you talk about skating. We did.
Was it hockey or sport then? In college?
Yes. Oh, nice.
So are you a, you know, Boston fan or I'm from Pittsburgh, so
you. Know are you?
Are you a Penguins? Fan.
You're a Penguins fan? Oh yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah.
(34:50):
You know, I used to when, when the Sabres started back in,
gosh, it was I think 72 in Buffalo, my dad had season
tickets and it was close by. It was in the old War Memorial
Stadium, the odd rather, and, and you sat very close to the
(35:10):
ice and the Sabres had an exciting team with Randy Robear
and Jill Perot and Rick Martin. And it was, it was fabulous to
watch. And as I got older, I don't tend
to, I don't have season tickets.My dad, once they move to the
new stadium, I think maybe he gave him up for that.
But you know, I'm, I guess I'm kind of a fair weather Sabres
(35:33):
fan. If they're doing well, I'll pay
attention. If they're not, I, I may look at
A at a game recap. That's about it.
The Bills, however, attract a lot of attention in Buffalo, as
I'm sure you're sort of aware. And there's when the Bills are
playing well, it's really fun towatch and get excited about
(35:54):
seeing that. I'm not the kind of guy that
puts on all the the Bills stuff.I'm just try to keep my wife
calm during the game and sit back and watch, watch football.
And obviously Josh Allen here. It's it's been really exciting
since the Jim Kelly years and Thurman Thomas and those guys.
(36:17):
It's it's kind of fun again, so.My sister went to college with
Daryl Talley and. Where was that?
At West Virginia University, Yeah.
So he was, he was so much fun towatch when I was in high school.
And I'd go, you know, down to the games and, and see him.
And I think it was Delbert Fowler was the other defensive
(36:38):
end that those guys would just be back and forth, intercepting
passes and sacking the quarterback.
And it was just such an excitingtime.
And then he did so well in Buffalo.
Yeah. I went, you know, the Bills went
to four straight and I went to the last one hoping, OK, maybe
this, you know, four times charm.
Not quite, but that's a pretty impressive track record for that
(37:00):
era to be four straight. Now it would be even harder.
I mean, Kansas City's been our nemesis.
But you know, with free agency and and salary caps and the
movement of players, it's a little harder.
But I think if you have a strongleader and Josh Allen and that
grew up, they put together and really they stress character,
(37:24):
they're no prima donnas I think at this point, which is really
good. Yeah, we'll see how my Steelers
do if they can ever find an old enough quarterback for them.
See how my Steelers do if they can find an old.
That's right. Yeah.
I think I read something about them looking.
They had a couple names that were on the radar.
Aaron Rodgers is supposed to be signing with them.
It's like bring an old quarterback.
Maybe we just break down and bring in Kelly or not Kelly, you
(37:47):
know, not Kelly, but Brady. It's got me on Kelly.
All right. Well we have a question we ask
of all our guests and what are you doing especially after your
battle with non Hodgkin lymphomato age well?
To do what? Age?
To age well, not think about it.You know, as much as I can, you
(38:08):
know, with a little bit of graying hair in the spot up here
where I'm using and you know, goto the dermatologist.
I think it's just living a good life, being happy.
Just try to find that comfort level for your, for yourself,
for your spouse, for your friends, for your family and
(38:29):
appreciate it. You know, I've heard so much
about I'm living my best life and that means different things
to different people. To me, it's enjoying where I am.
And I have to say, I think, you know, part, I oftentimes think,
gosh, I wish I knew what I know now.
I wish I knew when I was back incollege.
And I think a lot of people, youknow, wish that as well.
(38:54):
I'm a lot wiser about my time and friends and, and
perspective. And I think it's I have an
appreciation for that too, from experiences.
We all learn from our mistakes. Luckily I didn't have any big
ones IS. There anything else that you'd
like to share with our listenersabout your journey or a message
of hope? Left, which I said was that
(39:17):
there's with science now changing in science on the
forefront, there's so much more coming along and I really
sincerely believe we're on the new frontier of of medicine in
this country. As long as we can keep the
funding. And I do donate to Roswell and
I've ridden in the ride and, andaccumulated some dollars to that
(39:40):
is to really support, if you can, those institutions that are
doing that research that are caring for for patients and
knowing that there's more out there.
And hopefully we'll kick this atsome point in the future.
Well, Chris, this has been a really heartwarming and
fascinating conversation. I really appreciate having
(40:01):
having you on today. I appreciate your attitude and
in this podcast we often talk about.
Our six pillars of. Aging well, which is to exercise
and get physical activity, eat ahealthy diet, maintain a healthy
body composition, don't smoke, get good sleep hygiene.
And most importantly, I think we've been learning the
(40:22):
importance of strong social connections.
And I think you underscored thattoday.
Just kind of talking about your attitude of gratitude, the sense
of kind of living in the moment and, you know, just living a
life to its fullest and enjoyingthe relationships that you have
and just making wise choices. This has been a great
(40:44):
conversation. I appreciate you having me on
and I'm so glad that this has been a successful therapy for
you. Thank you.
And we certainly wish you all the best and just keep aging
well. Great.
Thank you for contacting me and doing this, and hopefully that
people who hear it see it will come away with a sense of hope
(41:05):
and appreciation and anything I can do to help, as I say, glad
to. Thank you for listening.
I hope you benefited from today's podcast and until next
time, keep aging. Well.
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