December 25, 2024 • 30 mins
Can you imagine a world where AI takes the lead in transforming sales and revenue organizations before 2025? We unpack the rapid evolution of AI technologies like ChatGPT that have seamlessly integrated into our everyday lives. This episode promises to expand your understanding of the AI landscape and its future implications. We address your concerns about the relevance of email-based tasks in an era of AI dominance, emphasizing the need to adapt, reinvent, and possibly even pivot careers to stay at the forefront of this dynamic shift. We set the scene against the holiday season, adding a festive twist to the exploration of AI’s potential.
Unlock the secrets to driving sales success by taking initiative in the ever-evolving workplace. Jake and KD share insights on balancing innovative strategies with meeting targets, revealing how you can impress your leadership while enhancing results. Learn the art of personalized communication versus relying on standard templates, and why creativity is your ally in a tech-driven world. This episode serves as a valuable guide for those eager to excel in their professions amid the changes brought by AI innovations. Tune in to gain a fresh perspective on staying relevant and thriving in your career.
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Connect with Jake: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakedunlap/
Connect with KD: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kddorsey3/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, what's going on, man?
All right, man.
Episode number two, number twowe're getting ready.
We're in the holiday seasons,the full thick of it.
What do you got going on forthe holidays, man?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Probably way too much eating and not enough sleeping.
We'll probably put it out thatway.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
That's how it usually works out, you know this time
of year.
So happy holidays, everybodyVery excited for today's episode
.
We're going to do your classicpredictions episode right.
If you all caught the very lastepisode of our AI Unleashed
webinar series, we kind oftalked about 2024, you know what
we get right, et cetera.
(00:42):
We'll probably put up a littlemini episode of that for
everybody here over the theholiday break before the next
episode.
But today we're going to talkabout what's next in AI.
We're going to talk about, youknow, maybe just a little bit of
recap on the journey.
I mean, it is still prettycrazy to think about, just
literally chat GPT is like twoyears and one month old and
(01:03):
we're like so new into this.
So we'll do a little recap foreverybody.
But more importantly, I thinkwe're going to talk about some
of the trends and specificallyto you know, all of you in sales
or if you're a ceo or cro, youknow and you're thinking about
these things what are thequestions that you're probably
asking yourselves and what areour predictions based on what
we're already seeing in revenueorganizations and what we
(01:25):
anticipate seeing right, wecan't really anticipate where
Gen AI is going to be.
I mean, who the hell knows?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
And I think that's why the recap is going to be
good, because you can learn fromthe past a bit here.
I know, for me in particular, Inever anticipated how quickly
it would evolve.
Oh man, there were things wewere excited about and we're
like, oh, we're the first onesto do it.
And then three months later itwould just get rolled out
everywhere.
We're like, oh OK.
So I think that was just a biglike.
(01:51):
I'm pumped for the recap, butof where this is going.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's wild man, it's going to get yeah and I mean we
talked about this, I think inthe first episode a little bit
too where it's like it's alsolike application pieces, like,
yeah, we'll dive into that,we'll get into some of those, so
, so that's what we're going todive into everyone.
Uh, we're going to spend about20 minutes talking about the
things we think are top of mindfor 2025.
You know, who knows man?
(02:13):
Maybe in april we'll be like ohyeah, and now chat gpt can also
do your laundry or somethingyou know.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
So I think I saw a funny meme and we'll dive in.
There was like I don't want AIto do art and music, so I can do
laundry and dishes.
We wanted AI to do the laundryand dishes, so we could do arts
and music.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
It's going the wrong direction.
That's right.
I agree, man.
I agree 100%.
So first segment here DMquestion of the week.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
So I love this and that's the opportunity Y'all
send us your questions becausewe will answer them live.
We'll get back to them on it.
So this one is it's a good oneand it sets us up well.
It says I'm an sdr who really,at the end of the day, I send
mostly emails to book mymeetings and I'm a little bit
worried that these tasks aren'tsuper value added.
What should I do in thissituation?
(02:57):
You want to dive into this onefirst, uh.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Uh, leave your job probably is is is probably, you
know, look, there's ways that Ido want to preface that, because
you can make a job what youwant to make it.
I, you know.
I think a lot of people think,oh, I'm a job, that's what I was
told to do.
I, most leaders want you toshow initiative, so the first
(03:20):
thing would be I'd say, look, Ihear that this is what you want
me to do.
I'm happy to do these emailtemplates.
What I would like to do is Iwill still hit your numbers.
I want to spend 20% extra timeto show you a new way forward
over the next month and then, ifI'm able to generate different
types of results, are you okaywith me duplicating that?
I am telling you right now mostsales leaders are sane and
(03:43):
reasonable people and as long asthey don't look bad and someone
doesn't go to them like, hey,why isn't Johnny Smith hitting
his numbers, they're usuallylike well, okay, if you're going
to hit your numbers and you'regoing to try something different
, like, I'm good with it.
So you know, I like to take alittle bit of ownership over at
first and then, yeah, maybe Ibounce.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, well, it really depends, like, who really just
sends emails How's this a phrase?
It depends on if they're youremails or someone else's.
Yeah, they're just liketemplates, because if you're
sending someone else's templates, someone else's emails probably
are You're.
You're.
You're in a lot of troublebecause you're also not
developing the skill of writing,you're not developing the skill
of prospecting, and so thesevalue added tasks aren't super
(04:20):
value.
Added Value is all about using.
If you can't use it, it's notvaluable.
So where, at your role, couldyou create things that are
usable?
Yeah, new templates, newprocesses, new systems,
connecting the dots better, so,but this is one.
If you're an SDR, if you're aseller out there and you're
using other people's contentonly, you're in trouble because
that's easy to do now, that'seasy to produce so.
(04:44):
I hope this person one.
I hope they join the community,join the community.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Get in there, learn how to do these things and see
where it can take you.
Yeah, there's, I think there'sjust a lot of opportunity.
But yeah, I mean, if you arejust hitting, send all on other
people's emails and then you'rea glorified calendar helper,
yeah, that's that, that's,that's a good segue, so let's
get into it.
So again, today's topics.
I've got a couple questionshere, kd.
I know you've got a couple toothat we're going to dive into
(05:07):
around.
What's next?
2025 is basically here.
Like you said, people are, youknow, maybe listening to this,
having a cocktail.
Well, hopefully, maybe you're,you know, actually relaxing a
little bit as well too.
Um, so the very first one andlet's you know, let's, let's
start hitting pretty heavy herewhich is will ai become the
default salesperson?
(05:28):
You know, by 2025?
Could, or even I'll maybephrase it to how much do we
really think ai will be able toreplace, knowing that things
don't quite move as fast as wethink, you know of the actual
role of sales?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
so this one is fun, because this is what gets
everyone so excited.
Like will there always be asalesperson?
people want to talk to peopleand it's like just like they'll
always be riding horses.
It's like, yes, there's stillpeople that ride horses.
That is true, right, but I liketo break this down to the
different parts of a salesperson, almost like the Frankenstein
of it.
Because when we use salespersonas itself, will AI be the
(06:07):
default salesperson overall in2025?
I don't believe so.
Yeah, but if you break down thethings salespeople do, I think
there's parts of the salespersonthat it does start to be the
default.
Research, for example.
That's part of a salesperson'sjob or was historically.
That part becomes the defaultfor a salesperson in 2025.
(06:28):
Research is an easy one.
Prep is another one.
Customized messaging is anotherone where it starts to take
pieces of the salesperson.
I'll say away or empower thesellers that actually know how
to leverage that technology, butI do think I'll go out here.
We'll see 2025.
I start to believe thatdiscovery by the end of 2025 is
(06:52):
no longer a sales person ledthing, because if you think of
what is discovery, what is gooddiscovery?
Asking great questions to finda use case, identify a problem
and create a custom POV for thatindividual, as buyers start to
experience this, where they canengage online at any time where
(07:13):
it's like I want to look at thisproduct.
Cool, we've got five, 10questions for for you here and
an avatar pops up and asks themand really goes through it.
I think the discovery part ofselling by the end of 2025 is
heavily interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
All right, I went there.
I went, let's, let's click onthat, because my medic and med
pic people are about to fliptables right now.
They're like but I need tounderstand all these other
things and the champions and theeconomic buyers and all this
stuff, and I feel like, look,you and I both know this, that
you know I agree to to for acertain type of seller in
particular, because the otherthing for us to put yourself in
(07:49):
the seller's shoes I'm answeringthe same questions to this
company, to this company.
So I can see that.
But the discovery process isone of the most important parts,
if not the most important part,of sales.
So how do you feel like if I'ma seller Okay, let's say we do
have some of this how is theseller then showing up in that
(08:09):
first meeting?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
So ideally it allows them to go deeper, faster,
because the reality is and Iknow this gets people fired up
it's like, oh no, kd AI couldn'tdo that We'd run such great
discovery.
They don't, most sellers don't.
You don't.
I'm telling you because I getto talk about this as a leader
and as a buyer.
I get sold to all the time.
Discovery is minimal at bestand then, even worse, it's not
(08:35):
used, whereas the best, the bestreps take the discovery and use
it.
So if I am a world-class sellerand I didn't do the discovery,
but in front of me is a one pagesummary of what they cared
about, the use cases, how toconnect the dots to the product,
social proof that would applyto them, potential objections
(08:56):
where they got excited, whatthey were looking for, now I can
go deeper in that demo faster,but also I can do discovery
continued.
That's also the problem withmost sellers is discovery stops?
Yeah, they do.
I did disco stage, completemove Right, right, right, move
on right.
So as a seller, that I think,allows me to show up and go
deeper versus trying to ask allthe questions, listen to all the
(09:18):
answers and not feel rushed,because a lot of sellers treat
discovery like a checklist.
They treat it like med pic.
They treat it like spiced like.
Oh, I checked the letters.
Yeah, they didn't get thecontext behind it.
So that's, that's what I thinkhappens I can get down with that
.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I think, yeah, and I think too, I think buyers, you
know, you think about at the topof the funnel, to that like
first interactions, initial,like you know, you know, can I
please, for the love of God,just like watch a demo without
having to talk to somebody?
So, yeah, I can, I can get downwith that.
And I think what you're hearinghere we are still years away
from the being able to interpretand read the tea leaves and cut
(09:53):
in that being able to interpretand read the tea leaves and
that 20, 15 percentcustomization that makes the
buyer be like, oh, this personadds value versus this person is
just doing something.
I could have filled out a form,I could have watched a video
again, because it's two ways,right, if I could just fill out
a form and then the demo thatyou're going to do isn't even
customized to discovery, can Ijust watch the demo too?
(10:13):
And then let's just talk aboutimplementation, you know like,
and that becomes, you know like,the role of CS and those types
of roles.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I think become more important.
Yeah, and that's where these,with these demos, and this is
2026.
So I'm not going to go to 2025yet, but we'll see where.
If I fill out that form and nowI get that demo pop up is like,
all right, is there aparticular use case you're
interested in?
And I type that in and it'slike, oh, let me take you there.
And then you could say, well,but but AI seller, I don't know
(10:43):
my ICP.
Oh, it's like you start to doall.
I believe this is where it getsto in two years is now that
guided demo is fully customizedbased off the questions it asks
throughout it.
And then it's the end whereit's like the actual
implementation connected to it,the POV, like that's where it
starts to get very interestingto me.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
So we'll see my friend, We'll see, All right.
Well, this is anotherhard-hitting one, all right,
which is around emotionalintelligence.
You know, we all are soemotionally intelligent, we're
paying attention, we're notmultitasking or anything, you
know when we think about thisyear.
So, again, we're literally twoyears into this.
You know Gen AI world and nowwe're going to be, you know,
(11:28):
into year three.
Do you think ChatGPT and toolslike it and I'm not talking
other types of AI will be ableto develop EQ to the level of
mimicking empathy convincingly,and maybe some other of those
like soft skills, I think thatmany of us think are uniquely
sales.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Absolutely.
I absolutely think that it canbecause it's mimicable, right?
Yeah, anything that is abehavior can be mimicked.
So and, by the way, humans, wemimic empathy all the time.
You know this damn totally.
You pretend to care aboutsomething you put on the face
that would be like, oh, thisperson wants to think I care, we
mimic, which means ai can mimic, sure, and especially better,
(12:10):
right?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
because it actually doesn't know the difference
between caring or not caring.
It just knows the behavior it'ssupposed to enact and it
doesn't carry biases.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
It's not afraid of being shamed, it's not afraid of
failure, it's not afraid oflooking bad, it's not trying to
hit a quota, it's not worriedabout providing for family, like
all the baggage we carry in.
Any human interaction isactually what hurts our EQ.
I do believe whether itactually develops EQ I'm just
glad you used the right word orcan it mimic EQ?
(12:41):
I absolutely think it can.
I was leading a training justthis morning for an SDR team and
was talking to them about how,when a prospect tells you they
have a problem, don't say good.
Don't say good Great, greatSellers.
You know sellers, your fillerwords are almost always positive
Good.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Great, it's awesome, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You know.
So someone's like yeah, no,yeah, our data is all over the
place.
Okay, good, good, you know howeasy it is to actually code or
program if someone tells youthey have a problem.
Respond this way Like I've beensaying this for good almost 10
years now that, truthfully, tome sales is nothing but a very
(13:22):
long chain of if that's and it'snot infinite variables.
80% of it, I think, isrelatively predictable If this,
then that, if this then that.
And the problem that we've setourselves up for is, oh, I don't
know.
There's now hundreds ofmillions of hours of call
recordings out there of what thebest of the best do.
How do they respond to certainthings?
So I do believe it becomes veryclose to mimicking way sooner
(13:47):
than I think people realize it'salready there.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
It's already there.
That's what I was going to say,and you know this will be a fun
fact.
Have you ever done Strengths?
And you?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
know I'll this will be a fun fact I've done have you
ever done strengths finder?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
You know, like now it's like, yeah, it's like one
through 34.
Okay, empathy for me was like33, like literally at the bottom
.
You know.
And what I realized again talkand again.
I think over time I've become,you know, genuinely more
empathetic.
I think over time I've become,you know, genuinely more
empathetic.
But look what is empathy?
What I got good at is I ask aquestion, I hit the mute button,
(14:21):
right, I just listen.
Okay, I have my questionswritten down, so I'm not trying
to think of it.
I'm fully present.
So, by literally creating spaceand pausing, being present and
not distracted, okay, now I wantall of you to think about is
this your sales call?
Is this what you're doing today?
And every two questions I asked, I recapped back to people
exactly what they said to me.
(14:42):
I remember I used to put thephone on mute, katie, I'd be
like when I was training newreps, I'd be like watch this,
all right.
So, katie, what I heard isyou're trying to do this, you're
trying to do this, is thatright?
And they'd go and they, theirface lights up, they're like
yeah, that's it I'm like, andthey're like like you, literally
.
You can, by the way.
You can try this with yoursignificant other too and
they're like, wow, like she orhe's really listening to me.
(15:04):
But but again, I'm you know,those are kind of how I learned
that part of it, by just makingpeople feel heard.
And again, I want a lot of yousellers to think about if you're
like, well, it doesn't listento your call.
Are you even doing what I justsaid?
Are you listening?
Are you recapping, or is itlike an interrogation?
Are you listening and kind ofplaying off of what they said?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
There's some I can't remember the name of the theorem
, I'll go and find it, but it'slike when we judge someone else,
we judge them far worse than wejudge ourselves right.
So, and I think that's what allsellers are doing to AI now.
It's like, well, it can'tconnect with people emotionally.
It's like, well, are you?
It doesn't listen, it doesn'tcare, do you Like?
(15:46):
But also we put AI on thispedestal that most sellers
aren't even meeting, and I knowsome of y'all just turned off
the episode right now becauseyou're like, oh no, that's not
me.
I mean, okay, but the realityis what Jake just gave as an
example can be taught.
There are already AI therapists.
If you think about whereempathy has to show up In
(16:07):
therapy, there are already AItherapists that patients prefer
over a human therapist becausethey don't fear judgment anymore
.
They're more open.
We talked about this in anotherepisode, but this is one where
I think it gets very mimicable.
And if we're being honest, jake, as a buyer, how much empathy
do you want from your seller?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I just want them to be able to connect the dots.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Say it again I'm going to ask this again as a
buyer.
When's the last time you'relike?
You know what I loved thatseller because they were
empathetic.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
I like to feel heard, but the way you show me that I
felt heard is by how you puttogether the solution.
You help me.
Yeah, that's how I feel.
It's like, as long as you I cantell and I'm not repeating
myself 50 times, or I got, I cantell you copied and pasted this
, that's it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Especially as you go up market where people said,
well, you couldn't do thisenterprise.
When you're selling a twomillion dollar contract to 14
internal buyers, empathy is thelast thing that that company is
thinking about when they'remaking this decision.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
They're looking at the use case, the return, the
implementation and the risk.
Some enterprise sellers arelosing it right now.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I know, but enterprise sellers, this should
help you create better use cases, create better POVs, connect
the dots better, because youdon't have access to the entire
internet in your brain.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
AI does.
That's right.
Scenario, scenario plan, roleplay.
We'll get you know.
We've done a million of thosetypes of uh you know chats, etc.
Um, all right, man, let's talksales leadership.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I was gonna say I want to pivot this a little bit
here because, like we talk a lotabout the seller, where the
seller be, how sellers can usethis, what about?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
sales leaders, ooh, frontline sales leaders so 2025,
will AI make sales leadersobsolete?
It's a really great question.
This actually is how me and youstarted the journey.
This is how you guys have heardthe story before Pine House
Pizza, beer and Pizza, talkingabout all the things that we
thought after 15, 20 years ofsales leadership and sales was
(18:09):
proprietary and then starting togo down the rabbit hole of like
, well, can it do that?
Can it do that?
You know?
Here's what I would say Salesleadership, and I think we all
know this.
For a lot of companies, mostsales leadership is not really
leadership, it's mentorship andit's or I'll call it hero
leadership, which is me tellingyou about what I've done before
(18:32):
and how you should do it.
It's advice giving.
Most sales leaders today are nottrained how to coach, ask
questions Okay, great.
So, jake, I know you.
What's the goal here?
Okay, what are some options forit?
Okay, based on that.
Okay, where, where do you thinkwe're at today, reality-wise?
Okay, based on kind of thesethings, how should we move
forward?
How many of you sales leaders, Iwant you to look yourself in
the eye.
When a rep comes to you andtalks about a deal and a rep
(18:55):
needs to work on a skill, howmany of you pause and coach
versus just give advice.
Now let me ask you this samequestion how many times in the
last 12 months have you giventhe exact same piece of advice?
Therefore, I can create acustom gpt that is the jake way
(19:16):
of giving advice that a rep cango in.
So you know, look, it goes backto a lot of the things, and
again we talked about empathy ormimicking behavior.
If you are giving the sameadvice over and over again, it
might make you feel good, and Ithink it.
What happens?
It gives us that littledopamine rush.
I'm smart, I'm smart, and it'snot.
It's not conscious, a lot ofthe subconscious.
Oh, look at, they need me now.
(19:37):
I don't think they're replaced.
But, katie, can they manage 20people now?
Maybe can they manage 30 people?
And I can also, you know, usegen, gen AI to have custom
personal development plans.
So, man, I am, I'm a coach 24-7.
I am in the trenches, I'mbuilding people up and I'm
actually not giving as much ofthe exact same deal advice.
(20:00):
So that's my, that's my take onit, man.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I think it's going to , over the next year, year and a
half, create a lot of superleaders where it will fill the
gap.
So I actually played with thisidea three, four years ago when
I was at patient pop of.
You know, we specialized reps,sdrs, aes, inbound, outbound and
(20:24):
I had the thought what if Ispecialized my managers?
Because you have some managersthat are great coaches, they're
great at it but they're reallybad with like data and process.
Then you have other leaderswhere they're great process data
, but they're really bad withlike data and process.
Then you have other leaderswhere they're great process and
data, but ask them to coach acall Good Lord, like they can't.
So I was like what if?
Because you think about what amanager has to do that's why I'm
so empathetic about managersyou have to be good at all of it
.
You actually don't get to leaninto your strengths.
(20:46):
So what I did?
I did it for one quarter where,like, this was the call
coaching manager, this was theproductivity manager and this
was the process manager, right,and I think AI is going to allow
leaders, if they're self-awareenough to admit where they are
weak, to fill that gap, yeah, orplay to their strengths, right,
because what's going to happenif you're a great coach, you
(21:08):
will do it better than AI now.
Now yes, for sure In a year anda half, but now you can.
But if you're weak in data,it's going to lift you up so
much higher.
Maybe you're a great dataperson.
It's not going to catch whatyou can catch, but it might help
you coach better.
So I think to your point.
I think leaders should be ableto start to lead more people at
(21:29):
once and have their gaps filled,because not every leader is
great at everything.
Leader, not every leader isgreat at everything.
I know my flaws.
I know the places that I amweakest.
I know the places that I'm good.
I want ai to fill those gaps,whereas I think too many people
look at what they're good at andgo ai can't do it as good as me
(21:50):
.
That's not the point 80.
Look at what you're not.
Ai can't do it as good as me.
That's not the point 80%.
Look at what you're not good atand let it lift you up there.
So that's what I think happenson the leadership side.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I like that Not only filling in the gaps for the
leader and then also kind ofgoing back to what I was
mentioning, where the ability toreally scale your good best
practices as well and spend moretime on the the people side of
it I think that that's critical,yeah absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
So I guess this goes a layer deeper.
Then will the reps follow airight?
Will they follow ai'sinstruction more than a manager,
more than a vp's instruction?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
will I listen to AI over my boss?
Well, you know, you got tolisten to your boss a little.
You got to manage it a littlebit.
Probably should.
Well, here's what I'll tell you.
You know it's been interesting,right?
We've been having flavors of AIin sales around your predictive
forecasting and Johnny talkstoo much.
So if Johnny talks less, he'llclose deals.
(22:50):
So we've kind of had thisflavor and I would say people
are pretty not trusting of ittoday.
I think where Gen AI possiblyfills in the gap, salespeople,
we always just want to know thewhy and nobody ever talks enough
.
That's not good enough.
We all know that there arenuances, like this deal I should
have talked more because ofblah and this blah, blah, blah.
(23:12):
So I think the answer is likeas the generative AI is able to
take in the same amount of threeor four data points that we
would triangulate, we probablystart to trust the forecast more
.
We probably start to trust theAI driven insights more than we
probably ever have, and then,yes, inevitably we will get
(23:35):
there Now, is it next year?
I don't think so.
I think we start down the pathbecause AI can help to explain
the why, and I think if you cantell a salesperson.
Here's the why I'vetriangulated this.
Jake, I've listened to yourlast 15 sales calls and look
consistently.
Here's some patterns I'venoticed.
Here's a clip I want you tolisten to.
(23:59):
I mean, we're not there yet,but we will be there.
So I I would say I don't knowif they're going to follow it
over their leaders or managerstoday, going back, it will
definitely augment the leaders,but it's getting there.
Man, I might be on the otherside of the table, do you think?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
it's ready now.
If we actually ask the questionhow much better are most
leaders making their reps rightnow?
It's kind of a heavy questionto ask because a lot of managers
and leaders aren't actuallymaking their people better,
which I believe creates thisvacuum of okay, well, where else
(24:30):
can I go to learn?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
They're helping them to hit quota, maybe, but they're
not building skills.
They're not building skills.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
They're not giving a lot of feedback.
They're not able to.
And truthfully, first of all, Iwant to empathize with the
managers and the leaders.
They almost can't give all thethings that they need to give to
a rep, right?
And so if you started gettinglike at the end of every call,
well, and so if you startedgetting like at the end of every
call, well, your manager atmost is listening to most
companies three to four calls amonth at most, at most, at most
(24:57):
when, all of a sudden, afterevery call, you got a little
feedback on that call saying,hey, you nailed this, you nailed
this, you nailed this Based offwhat your ex top performer at
your company is doing.
I think if you asked thisquestion on your next call, you
might see a little bit moreengagement and discovery.
Oh, and then the next call, Ido it and I get recognized.
(25:17):
Oh right, yeah Right.
I actually think this is goingto happen very quickly because
people are going to get a tasteof, like, what actual coaching
is and improving them and givingthem the insight.
So you mentioned the whyearlier.
It's you know, one of thequestions a lot of leaders love
to ask is like you know, likehow can I help you?
You know, how can I help you?
(25:38):
And I always laugh at thisquestion because it assumes so
many things.
One, it assumes you can or that, or that they know.
Okay, right.
First it puts you in a herocomplex how can I help you?
Yeah, yes, and I complex.
Second, you're asking them togive you the answer.
If they knew how you could helpthem, they probably would have
asked.
They already would have done itWhereas I believe AI is going
(26:01):
to give people some proactivecoaching around things that a
manager can't do.
So this isn't a knock to amanager, because a manager can't
review all the calls you'regoing through.
A manager can't look at yourentire territory.
A manager can't analyze, like,what's happening across the
board and give you that feedback.
I actually think this happensfast, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I think so Twenty, twenty five.
There's pieces of it.
There's another, another followup here, which is this idea of
the collaboration between themanager Right and I.
And yeah, I just, I just feelin the macro here a lot of the
trends we're talking about as westart to kind of wrap up.
It's the role of what it meansto be in sales, sales leadership
(26:40):
, senior sales leadership, isjust becoming different and
becoming more complex in certainareas, but also simplifying in
other areas if you know how touse the technology.
And so I think for hopefully alot of people listening to
today's episode, look, it iswhat it is.
These things are happening andI get it.
(27:02):
It's so hard as someone who'sbeen a practitioner for 20 plus
years to say you know, thethings that got me to where I am
today are not going to be theskill you know, even the skill
sets or the knowledge that Igained.
You know you could get, youknow, have a pity party being
like, well, what do you mean allthis?
I spent this my life, you know,not doing this, and now it's,
you know, somewhat irrelevant,but it's not because, again,
(27:23):
what you didn't hear us say arethings like creativity, critical
thinking, cleverness those arethe things that I'm.
2025 isn't going to touch thoseyou know to a certain level.
So, Katie, take us out.
Man, in terms of you know, whenyou think about how to make
sure that you are staying on topof this for 2025, if you're a
(27:49):
rep or a leader, give me acouple of you know skills or
areas outside of just gettingbetter at the tools that I
should be thinking about.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
So one as a leader like you just nailed this like
if you have 20 years ofexperience, that actually means
is you have 20 years of context,which actually means you have
20 years of if, thens that's allexperience actually is.
Is if this, then I know to do X.
That's actually setting you upto be better with AI, not worse
(28:12):
with it, because you have thecontext.
So one I would startdownloading yourself, interview
yourself, have someone on yourteam, interview you.
Okay.
So when a deal is stuck, whatdo you do?
Capture that, capture that andyou can start to feed it right.
It'll help you do more of thatexperience.
So that's one.
Two is block the time for thisstuff.
(28:33):
Like I have time on my calendarevery two weeks to dive in,
just to dive in what is new,what's happening, where could I
apply it?
Things like that, bring someonein to own it.
But I mean you know this, Isigned up my entire revenue
leadership team for the AIcourse that your team is
teaching and I paid for too.
By the way, it wasn't free, nohomie discount.
I mean, yeah, I got a littlevolume discount but paid for it.
(28:56):
And like I cannot tell you everysingle week they come in with
like oh, what if we did this andwhat if we did that?
And it's things I hadn't eventhought of.
Right, so it's getting yourteam invested in it, not to be
afraid of it.
It is what you said it.
It is what it is.
It's here, it's not going backinto the box.
So you might as well make sureyour team knows how to do it and
(29:16):
to use it, because, at the endof the day, the ones that
figured out first are going towin in the long run, and that's
my goal.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I love that man, yeah , and so everybody, you know,
hopefully you can go into theholidays with some ideas of 2025
.
Maybe you have a littledowntime you can write out,
maybe some things you're goingto focus on going into the new
year.
You know, make sure, if youhaven't already subscribed to
the newsletter, we've got thelink in the show notes.
Check out some of the coursesand things we're doing.
(29:44):
Also, check out Katie'sLeadership Accelerator.
If you guys are a sales leaderand you haven't subscribed to
that, we've got a link downthere.
Accelerator If you guys are asales leader and you haven't
subscribed to that, we've got alink down there.
Maybe you got a holiday promofor people, a little holiday.
Oh, we probably do that holidaypromo in the season there.
So, again, a lot of this isabout making everybody better
and so we'll see everybody inthe new year.
We're excited.
(30:04):
We're going to talk a littlebit about enablement in the new
year and what does a lot of thismean for our folks in
enablement?
And you know, helping in thenew year and what does a lot of
this mean for our folks inenablement and helping to really
empower the sales team.
So, happy holidays everybody.
Make sure to subscribe, sharethis with your other sales
friends, buddies, and yeah,we'll see you in 2025.
Have a great new year y'all.
All right, what's going on, man?
All right, man.
Episode number two, number twowe're getting ready.
We're in the holiday seasons,the full thick of it.
What do you got going on forthe holidays, man?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Probably way too much eating and not enough sleeping.
We'll probably put it out thatway.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
That's how it usually works out, you know this time
of year.
So happy holidays, everybodyVery excited for today's episode
.
We're going to do your classicpredictions episode right.
If you all caught the very lastepisode of our AI Unleashed
webinar series, we kind oftalked about 2024, you know what
we get right, et cetera.
(00:42):
We'll probably put up a littlemini episode of that for
everybody here over the theholiday break before the next
episode.
But today we're going to talkabout what's next in AI.
We're going to talk about, youknow, maybe just a little bit of
recap on the journey.
I mean, it is still prettycrazy to think about, just
literally chat GPT is like twoyears and one month old and
(01:03):
we're like so new into this.
So we'll do a little recap foreverybody.
But more importantly, I thinkwe're going to talk about some
of the trends and specificallyto you know, all of you in sales
or if you're a ceo or cro, youknow and you're thinking about
these things what are thequestions that you're probably
asking yourselves and what areour predictions based on what
we're already seeing in revenueorganizations and what we
(01:25):
anticipate seeing right, wecan't really anticipate where
Gen AI is going to be.
I mean, who the hell knows?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
And I think that's why the recap is going to be
good, because you can learn fromthe past a bit here.
I know, for me in particular, Inever anticipated how quickly
it would evolve.
Oh man, there were things wewere excited about and we're
like, oh, we're the first onesto do it.
And then three months later itwould just get rolled out
everywhere.
We're like, oh OK.
So I think that was just a biglike.
(01:51):
I'm pumped for the recap, butof where this is going.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's wild man, it's going to get yeah and I mean we
talked about this, I think inthe first episode a little bit
too where it's like it's alsolike application pieces, like,
yeah, we'll dive into that,we'll get into some of those, so
, so that's what we're going todive into everyone.
Uh, we're going to spend about20 minutes talking about the
things we think are top of mindfor 2025.
You know, who knows man?
(02:13):
Maybe in april we'll be like ohyeah, and now chat gpt can also
do your laundry or somethingyou know.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
So I think I saw a funny meme and we'll dive in.
There was like I don't want AIto do art and music, so I can do
laundry and dishes.
We wanted AI to do the laundryand dishes, so we could do arts
and music.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
It's going the wrong direction.
That's right.
I agree, man.
I agree 100%.
So first segment here DMquestion of the week.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
So I love this and that's the opportunity Y'all
send us your questions becausewe will answer them live.
We'll get back to them on it.
So this one is it's a good oneand it sets us up well.
It says I'm an sdr who really,at the end of the day, I send
mostly emails to book mymeetings and I'm a little bit
worried that these tasks aren'tsuper value added.
What should I do in thissituation?
(02:57):
You want to dive into this onefirst, uh.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Uh, leave your job probably is is is probably, you
know, look, there's ways that Ido want to preface that, because
you can make a job what youwant to make it.
I, you know.
I think a lot of people think,oh, I'm a job, that's what I was
told to do.
I, most leaders want you toshow initiative, so the first
(03:20):
thing would be I'd say, look, Ihear that this is what you want
me to do.
I'm happy to do these emailtemplates.
What I would like to do is Iwill still hit your numbers.
I want to spend 20% extra timeto show you a new way forward
over the next month and then, ifI'm able to generate different
types of results, are you okaywith me duplicating that?
I am telling you right now mostsales leaders are sane and
(03:43):
reasonable people and as long asthey don't look bad and someone
doesn't go to them like, hey,why isn't Johnny Smith hitting
his numbers, they're usuallylike well, okay, if you're going
to hit your numbers and you'regoing to try something different
, like, I'm good with it.
So you know, I like to take alittle bit of ownership over at
first and then, yeah, maybe Ibounce.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, well, it really depends, like, who really just
sends emails How's this a phrase?
It depends on if they're youremails or someone else's.
Yeah, they're just liketemplates, because if you're
sending someone else's templates, someone else's emails probably
are You're.
You're.
You're in a lot of troublebecause you're also not
developing the skill of writing,you're not developing the skill
of prospecting, and so thesevalue added tasks aren't super
(04:20):
value.
Added Value is all about using.
If you can't use it, it's notvaluable.
So where, at your role, couldyou create things that are
usable?
Yeah, new templates, newprocesses, new systems,
connecting the dots better, so,but this is one.
If you're an SDR, if you're aseller out there and you're
using other people's contentonly, you're in trouble because
that's easy to do now, that'seasy to produce so.
(04:44):
I hope this person one.
I hope they join the community,join the community.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Get in there, learn how to do these things and see
where it can take you.
Yeah, there's, I think there'sjust a lot of opportunity.
But yeah, I mean, if you arejust hitting, send all on other
people's emails and then you'rea glorified calendar helper,
yeah, that's that, that's,that's a good segue, so let's
get into it.
So again, today's topics.
I've got a couple questionshere, kd.
I know you've got a couple toothat we're going to dive into
(05:07):
around.
What's next?
2025 is basically here.
Like you said, people are, youknow, maybe listening to this,
having a cocktail.
Well, hopefully, maybe you're,you know, actually relaxing a
little bit as well too.
Um, so the very first one andlet's you know, let's, let's
start hitting pretty heavy herewhich is will ai become the
default salesperson?
(05:28):
You know, by 2025?
Could, or even I'll maybephrase it to how much do we
really think ai will be able toreplace, knowing that things
don't quite move as fast as wethink, you know of the actual
role of sales?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
so this one is fun, because this is what gets
everyone so excited.
Like will there always be asalesperson?
people want to talk to peopleand it's like just like they'll
always be riding horses.
It's like, yes, there's stillpeople that ride horses.
That is true, right, but I liketo break this down to the
different parts of a salesperson, almost like the Frankenstein
of it.
Because when we use salespersonas itself, will AI be the
(06:07):
default salesperson overall in2025?
I don't believe so.
Yeah, but if you break down thethings salespeople do, I think
there's parts of the salespersonthat it does start to be the
default.
Research, for example.
That's part of a salesperson'sjob or was historically.
That part becomes the defaultfor a salesperson in 2025.
(06:28):
Research is an easy one.
Prep is another one.
Customized messaging is anotherone where it starts to take
pieces of the salesperson.
I'll say away or empower thesellers that actually know how
to leverage that technology, butI do think I'll go out here.
We'll see 2025.
I start to believe thatdiscovery by the end of 2025 is
(06:52):
no longer a sales person ledthing, because if you think of
what is discovery, what is gooddiscovery?
Asking great questions to finda use case, identify a problem
and create a custom POV for thatindividual, as buyers start to
experience this, where they canengage online at any time where
(07:13):
it's like I want to look at thisproduct.
Cool, we've got five, 10questions for for you here and
an avatar pops up and asks themand really goes through it.
I think the discovery part ofselling by the end of 2025 is
heavily interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
All right, I went there.
I went, let's, let's click onthat, because my medic and med
pic people are about to fliptables right now.
They're like but I need tounderstand all these other
things and the champions and theeconomic buyers and all this
stuff, and I feel like, look,you and I both know this, that
you know I agree to to for acertain type of seller in
particular, because the otherthing for us to put yourself in
(07:49):
the seller's shoes I'm answeringthe same questions to this
company, to this company.
So I can see that.
But the discovery process isone of the most important parts,
if not the most important part,of sales.
So how do you feel like if I'ma seller Okay, let's say we do
have some of this how is theseller then showing up in that
(08:09):
first meeting?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
So ideally it allows them to go deeper, faster,
because the reality is and Iknow this gets people fired up
it's like, oh no, kd AI couldn'tdo that We'd run such great
discovery.
They don't, most sellers don't.
You don't.
I'm telling you because I getto talk about this as a leader
and as a buyer.
I get sold to all the time.
Discovery is minimal at bestand then, even worse, it's not
(08:35):
used, whereas the best, the bestreps take the discovery and use
it.
So if I am a world-class sellerand I didn't do the discovery,
but in front of me is a one pagesummary of what they cared
about, the use cases, how toconnect the dots to the product,
social proof that would applyto them, potential objections
(08:56):
where they got excited, whatthey were looking for, now I can
go deeper in that demo faster,but also I can do discovery
continued.
That's also the problem withmost sellers is discovery stops?
Yeah, they do.
I did disco stage, completemove Right, right, right, move
on right.
So as a seller, that I think,allows me to show up and go
deeper versus trying to ask allthe questions, listen to all the
(09:18):
answers and not feel rushed,because a lot of sellers treat
discovery like a checklist.
They treat it like med pic.
They treat it like spiced like.
Oh, I checked the letters.
Yeah, they didn't get thecontext behind it.
So that's, that's what I thinkhappens I can get down with that
.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I think, yeah, and I think too, I think buyers, you
know, you think about at the topof the funnel, to that like
first interactions, initial,like you know, you know, can I
please, for the love of God,just like watch a demo without
having to talk to somebody?
So, yeah, I can, I can get downwith that.
And I think what you're hearinghere we are still years away
from the being able to interpretand read the tea leaves and cut
(09:53):
in that being able to interpretand read the tea leaves and
that 20, 15 percentcustomization that makes the
buyer be like, oh, this personadds value versus this person is
just doing something.
I could have filled out a form,I could have watched a video
again, because it's two ways,right, if I could just fill out
a form and then the demo thatyou're going to do isn't even
customized to discovery, can Ijust watch the demo too?
(10:13):
And then let's just talk aboutimplementation, you know like,
and that becomes, you know like,the role of CS and those types
of roles.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I think become more important.
Yeah, and that's where these,with these demos, and this is
2026.
So I'm not going to go to 2025yet, but we'll see where.
If I fill out that form and nowI get that demo pop up is like,
all right, is there aparticular use case you're
interested in?
And I type that in and it'slike, oh, let me take you there.
And then you could say, well,but but AI seller, I don't know
(10:43):
my ICP.
Oh, it's like you start to doall.
I believe this is where it getsto in two years is now that
guided demo is fully customizedbased off the questions it asks
throughout it.
And then it's the end whereit's like the actual
implementation connected to it,the POV, like that's where it
starts to get very interestingto me.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
So we'll see my friend, We'll see, All right.
Well, this is anotherhard-hitting one, all right,
which is around emotionalintelligence.
You know, we all are soemotionally intelligent, we're
paying attention, we're notmultitasking or anything, you
know when we think about thisyear.
So, again, we're literally twoyears into this.
You know Gen AI world and nowwe're going to be, you know,
(11:28):
into year three.
Do you think ChatGPT and toolslike it and I'm not talking
other types of AI will be ableto develop EQ to the level of
mimicking empathy convincingly,and maybe some other of those
like soft skills, I think thatmany of us think are uniquely
sales.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Absolutely.
I absolutely think that it canbecause it's mimicable, right?
Yeah, anything that is abehavior can be mimicked.
So and, by the way, humans, wemimic empathy all the time.
You know this damn totally.
You pretend to care aboutsomething you put on the face
that would be like, oh, thisperson wants to think I care, we
mimic, which means ai can mimic, sure, and especially better,
(12:10):
right?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
because it actually doesn't know the difference
between caring or not caring.
It just knows the behavior it'ssupposed to enact and it
doesn't carry biases.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
It's not afraid of being shamed, it's not afraid of
failure, it's not afraid oflooking bad, it's not trying to
hit a quota, it's not worriedabout providing for family, like
all the baggage we carry in.
Any human interaction isactually what hurts our EQ.
I do believe whether itactually develops EQ I'm just
glad you used the right word orcan it mimic EQ?
(12:41):
I absolutely think it can.
I was leading a training justthis morning for an SDR team and
was talking to them about how,when a prospect tells you they
have a problem, don't say good.
Don't say good Great, greatSellers.
You know sellers, your fillerwords are almost always positive
Good.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Great, it's awesome, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You know.
So someone's like yeah, no,yeah, our data is all over the
place.
Okay, good, good, you know howeasy it is to actually code or
program if someone tells youthey have a problem.
Respond this way Like I've beensaying this for good almost 10
years now that, truthfully, tome sales is nothing but a very
(13:22):
long chain of if that's and it'snot infinite variables.
80% of it, I think, isrelatively predictable If this,
then that, if this then that.
And the problem that we've setourselves up for is, oh, I don't
know.
There's now hundreds ofmillions of hours of call
recordings out there of what thebest of the best do.
How do they respond to certainthings?
So I do believe it becomes veryclose to mimicking way sooner
(13:47):
than I think people realize it'salready there.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
It's already there.
That's what I was going to say,and you know this will be a fun
fact.
Have you ever done Strengths?
And you?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
know I'll this will be a fun fact I've done have you
ever done strengths finder?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
You know, like now it's like, yeah, it's like one
through 34.
Okay, empathy for me was like33, like literally at the bottom
.
You know.
And what I realized again talkand again.
I think over time I've become,you know, genuinely more
empathetic.
I think over time I've become,you know, genuinely more
empathetic.
But look what is empathy?
What I got good at is I ask aquestion, I hit the mute button,
(14:21):
right, I just listen.
Okay, I have my questionswritten down, so I'm not trying
to think of it.
I'm fully present.
So, by literally creating spaceand pausing, being present and
not distracted, okay, now I wantall of you to think about is
this your sales call?
Is this what you're doing today?
And every two questions I asked, I recapped back to people
exactly what they said to me.
(14:42):
I remember I used to put thephone on mute, katie, I'd be
like when I was training newreps, I'd be like watch this,
all right.
So, katie, what I heard isyou're trying to do this, you're
trying to do this, is thatright?
And they'd go and they, theirface lights up, they're like
yeah, that's it I'm like, andthey're like like you, literally
.
You can, by the way.
You can try this with yoursignificant other too and
they're like, wow, like she orhe's really listening to me.
(15:04):
But but again, I'm you know,those are kind of how I learned
that part of it, by just makingpeople feel heard.
And again, I want a lot of yousellers to think about if you're
like, well, it doesn't listento your call.
Are you even doing what I justsaid?
Are you listening?
Are you recapping, or is itlike an interrogation?
Are you listening and kind ofplaying off of what they said?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
There's some I can't remember the name of the theorem
, I'll go and find it, but it'slike when we judge someone else,
we judge them far worse than wejudge ourselves right.
So, and I think that's what allsellers are doing to AI now.
It's like, well, it can'tconnect with people emotionally.
It's like, well, are you?
It doesn't listen, it doesn'tcare, do you Like?
(15:46):
But also we put AI on thispedestal that most sellers
aren't even meeting, and I knowsome of y'all just turned off
the episode right now becauseyou're like, oh no, that's not
me.
I mean, okay, but the realityis what Jake just gave as an
example can be taught.
There are already AI therapists.
If you think about whereempathy has to show up In
(16:07):
therapy, there are already AItherapists that patients prefer
over a human therapist becausethey don't fear judgment anymore
.
They're more open.
We talked about this in anotherepisode, but this is one where
I think it gets very mimicable.
And if we're being honest, jake, as a buyer, how much empathy
do you want from your seller?
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I just want them to be able to connect the dots.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Say it again I'm going to ask this again as a
buyer.
When's the last time you'relike?
You know what I loved thatseller because they were
empathetic.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
I like to feel heard, but the way you show me that I
felt heard is by how you puttogether the solution.
You help me.
Yeah, that's how I feel.
It's like, as long as you I cantell and I'm not repeating
myself 50 times, or I got, I cantell you copied and pasted this
, that's it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Especially as you go up market where people said,
well, you couldn't do thisenterprise.
When you're selling a twomillion dollar contract to 14
internal buyers, empathy is thelast thing that that company is
thinking about when they'remaking this decision.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
They're looking at the use case, the return, the
implementation and the risk.
Some enterprise sellers arelosing it right now.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I know, but enterprise sellers, this should
help you create better use cases, create better POVs, connect
the dots better, because youdon't have access to the entire
internet in your brain.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
AI does.
That's right.
Scenario, scenario plan, roleplay.
We'll get you know.
We've done a million of thosetypes of uh you know chats, etc.
Um, all right, man, let's talksales leadership.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I was gonna say I want to pivot this a little bit
here because, like we talk a lotabout the seller, where the
seller be, how sellers can usethis, what about?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
sales leaders, ooh, frontline sales leaders so 2025,
will AI make sales leadersobsolete?
It's a really great question.
This actually is how me and youstarted the journey.
This is how you guys have heardthe story before Pine House
Pizza, beer and Pizza, talkingabout all the things that we
thought after 15, 20 years ofsales leadership and sales was
(18:09):
proprietary and then starting togo down the rabbit hole of like
, well, can it do that?
Can it do that?
You know?
Here's what I would say Salesleadership, and I think we all
know this.
For a lot of companies, mostsales leadership is not really
leadership, it's mentorship andit's or I'll call it hero
leadership, which is me tellingyou about what I've done before
(18:32):
and how you should do it.
It's advice giving.
Most sales leaders today are nottrained how to coach, ask
questions Okay, great.
So, jake, I know you.
What's the goal here?
Okay, what are some options forit?
Okay, based on that.
Okay, where, where do you thinkwe're at today, reality-wise?
Okay, based on kind of thesethings, how should we move
forward?
How many of you sales leaders, Iwant you to look yourself in
the eye.
When a rep comes to you andtalks about a deal and a rep
(18:55):
needs to work on a skill, howmany of you pause and coach
versus just give advice.
Now let me ask you this samequestion how many times in the
last 12 months have you giventhe exact same piece of advice?
Therefore, I can create acustom gpt that is the jake way
(19:16):
of giving advice that a rep cango in.
So you know, look, it goes backto a lot of the things, and
again we talked about empathy ormimicking behavior.
If you are giving the sameadvice over and over again, it
might make you feel good, and Ithink it.
What happens?
It gives us that littledopamine rush.
I'm smart, I'm smart, and it'snot.
It's not conscious, a lot ofthe subconscious.
Oh, look at, they need me now.
(19:37):
I don't think they're replaced.
But, katie, can they manage 20people now?
Maybe can they manage 30 people?
And I can also, you know, usegen, gen AI to have custom
personal development plans.
So, man, I am, I'm a coach 24-7.
I am in the trenches, I'mbuilding people up and I'm
actually not giving as much ofthe exact same deal advice.
(20:00):
So that's my, that's my take onit, man.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I think it's going to , over the next year, year and a
half, create a lot of superleaders where it will fill the
gap.
So I actually played with thisidea three, four years ago when
I was at patient pop of.
You know, we specialized reps,sdrs, aes, inbound, outbound and
(20:24):
I had the thought what if Ispecialized my managers?
Because you have some managersthat are great coaches, they're
great at it but they're reallybad with like data and process.
Then you have other leaderswhere they're great process data
, but they're really bad withlike data and process.
Then you have other leaderswhere they're great process and
data, but ask them to coach acall Good Lord, like they can't.
So I was like what if?
Because you think about what amanager has to do that's why I'm
so empathetic about managersyou have to be good at all of it
.
You actually don't get to leaninto your strengths.
(20:46):
So what I did?
I did it for one quarter where,like, this was the call
coaching manager, this was theproductivity manager and this
was the process manager, right,and I think AI is going to allow
leaders, if they're self-awareenough to admit where they are
weak, to fill that gap, yeah, orplay to their strengths, right,
because what's going to happenif you're a great coach, you
(21:08):
will do it better than AI now.
Now yes, for sure In a year anda half, but now you can.
But if you're weak in data,it's going to lift you up so
much higher.
Maybe you're a great dataperson.
It's not going to catch whatyou can catch, but it might help
you coach better.
So I think to your point.
I think leaders should be ableto start to lead more people at
(21:29):
once and have their gaps filled,because not every leader is
great at everything.
Leader, not every leader isgreat at everything.
I know my flaws.
I know the places that I amweakest.
I know the places that I'm good.
I want ai to fill those gaps,whereas I think too many people
look at what they're good at andgo ai can't do it as good as me
(21:50):
.
That's not the point 80.
Look at what you're not.
Ai can't do it as good as me.
That's not the point 80%.
Look at what you're not good atand let it lift you up there.
So that's what I think happenson the leadership side.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I like that Not only filling in the gaps for the
leader and then also kind ofgoing back to what I was
mentioning, where the ability toreally scale your good best
practices as well and spend moretime on the the people side of
it I think that that's critical,yeah absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
So I guess this goes a layer deeper.
Then will the reps follow airight?
Will they follow ai'sinstruction more than a manager,
more than a vp's instruction?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
will I listen to AI over my boss?
Well, you know, you got tolisten to your boss a little.
You got to manage it a littlebit.
Probably should.
Well, here's what I'll tell you.
You know it's been interesting,right?
We've been having flavors of AIin sales around your predictive
forecasting and Johnny talkstoo much.
So if Johnny talks less, he'llclose deals.
(22:50):
So we've kind of had thisflavor and I would say people
are pretty not trusting of ittoday.
I think where Gen AI possiblyfills in the gap, salespeople,
we always just want to know thewhy and nobody ever talks enough
.
That's not good enough.
We all know that there arenuances, like this deal I should
have talked more because ofblah and this blah, blah, blah.
(23:12):
So I think the answer is likeas the generative AI is able to
take in the same amount of threeor four data points that we
would triangulate, we probablystart to trust the forecast more
.
We probably start to trust theAI driven insights more than we
probably ever have, and then,yes, inevitably we will get
(23:35):
there Now, is it next year?
I don't think so.
I think we start down the pathbecause AI can help to explain
the why, and I think if you cantell a salesperson.
Here's the why I'vetriangulated this.
Jake, I've listened to yourlast 15 sales calls and look
consistently.
Here's some patterns I'venoticed.
Here's a clip I want you tolisten to.
(23:59):
I mean, we're not there yet,but we will be there.
So I I would say I don't knowif they're going to follow it
over their leaders or managerstoday, going back, it will
definitely augment the leaders,but it's getting there.
Man, I might be on the otherside of the table, do you think?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
it's ready now.
If we actually ask the questionhow much better are most
leaders making their reps rightnow?
It's kind of a heavy questionto ask because a lot of managers
and leaders aren't actuallymaking their people better,
which I believe creates thisvacuum of okay, well, where else
(24:30):
can I go to learn?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
They're helping them to hit quota, maybe, but they're
not building skills.
They're not building skills.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
They're not giving a lot of feedback.
They're not able to.
And truthfully, first of all, Iwant to empathize with the
managers and the leaders.
They almost can't give all thethings that they need to give to
a rep, right?
And so if you started gettinglike at the end of every call,
well, and so if you startedgetting like at the end of every
call, well, your manager atmost is listening to most
companies three to four calls amonth at most, at most, at most
(24:57):
when, all of a sudden, afterevery call, you got a little
feedback on that call saying,hey, you nailed this, you nailed
this, you nailed this Based offwhat your ex top performer at
your company is doing.
I think if you asked thisquestion on your next call, you
might see a little bit moreengagement and discovery.
Oh, and then the next call, Ido it and I get recognized.
(25:17):
Oh right, yeah Right.
I actually think this is goingto happen very quickly because
people are going to get a tasteof, like, what actual coaching
is and improving them and givingthem the insight.
So you mentioned the whyearlier.
It's you know, one of thequestions a lot of leaders love
to ask is like you know, likehow can I help you?
You know, how can I help you?
(25:38):
And I always laugh at thisquestion because it assumes so
many things.
One, it assumes you can or that, or that they know.
Okay, right.
First it puts you in a herocomplex how can I help you?
Yeah, yes, and I complex.
Second, you're asking them togive you the answer.
If they knew how you could helpthem, they probably would have
asked.
They already would have done itWhereas I believe AI is going
(26:01):
to give people some proactivecoaching around things that a
manager can't do.
So this isn't a knock to amanager, because a manager can't
review all the calls you'regoing through.
A manager can't look at yourentire territory.
A manager can't analyze, like,what's happening across the
board and give you that feedback.
I actually think this happensfast, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I think so Twenty, twenty five.
There's pieces of it.
There's another, another followup here, which is this idea of
the collaboration between themanager Right and I.
And yeah, I just, I just feelin the macro here a lot of the
trends we're talking about as westart to kind of wrap up.
It's the role of what it meansto be in sales, sales leadership
(26:40):
, senior sales leadership, isjust becoming different and
becoming more complex in certainareas, but also simplifying in
other areas if you know how touse the technology.
And so I think for hopefully alot of people listening to
today's episode, look, it iswhat it is.
These things are happening andI get it.
(27:02):
It's so hard as someone who'sbeen a practitioner for 20 plus
years to say you know, thethings that got me to where I am
today are not going to be theskill you know, even the skill
sets or the knowledge that Igained.
You know you could get, youknow, have a pity party being
like, well, what do you mean allthis?
I spent this my life, you know,not doing this, and now it's,
you know, somewhat irrelevant,but it's not because, again,
(27:23):
what you didn't hear us say arethings like creativity, critical
thinking, cleverness those arethe things that I'm.
2025 isn't going to touch thoseyou know to a certain level.
So, Katie, take us out.
Man, in terms of you know, whenyou think about how to make
sure that you are staying on topof this for 2025, if you're a
(27:49):
rep or a leader, give me acouple of you know skills or
areas outside of just gettingbetter at the tools that I
should be thinking about.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
So one as a leader like you just nailed this like
if you have 20 years ofexperience, that actually means
is you have 20 years of context,which actually means you have
20 years of if, thens that's allexperience actually is.
Is if this, then I know to do X.
That's actually setting you upto be better with AI, not worse
(28:12):
with it, because you have thecontext.
So one I would startdownloading yourself, interview
yourself, have someone on yourteam, interview you.
Okay.
So when a deal is stuck, whatdo you do?
Capture that, capture that andyou can start to feed it right.
It'll help you do more of thatexperience.
So that's one.
Two is block the time for thisstuff.
(28:33):
Like I have time on my calendarevery two weeks to dive in,
just to dive in what is new,what's happening, where could I
apply it?
Things like that, bring someonein to own it.
But I mean you know this, Isigned up my entire revenue
leadership team for the AIcourse that your team is
teaching and I paid for too.
By the way, it wasn't free, nohomie discount.
I mean, yeah, I got a littlevolume discount but paid for it.
(28:56):
And like I cannot tell you everysingle week they come in with
like oh, what if we did this andwhat if we did that?
And it's things I hadn't eventhought of.
Right, so it's getting yourteam invested in it, not to be
afraid of it.
It is what you said it.
It is what it is.
It's here, it's not going backinto the box.
So you might as well make sureyour team knows how to do it and
(29:16):
to use it, because, at the endof the day, the ones that
figured out first are going towin in the long run, and that's
my goal.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I love that man, yeah , and so everybody, you know,
hopefully you can go into theholidays with some ideas of 2025
.
Maybe you have a littledowntime you can write out,
maybe some things you're goingto focus on going into the new
year.
You know, make sure, if youhaven't already subscribed to
the newsletter, we've got thelink in the show notes.
Check out some of the coursesand things we're doing.
(29:44):
Also, check out Katie'sLeadership Accelerator.
If you guys are a sales leaderand you haven't subscribed to
that, we've got a link downthere.
Accelerator If you guys are asales leader and you haven't
subscribed to that, we've got alink down there.
Maybe you got a holiday promofor people, a little holiday.
Oh, we probably do that holidaypromo in the season there.
So, again, a lot of this isabout making everybody better
and so we'll see everybody inthe new year.
We're excited.
(30:04):
We're going to talk a littlebit about enablement in the new
year and what does a lot of thismean for our folks in
enablement?
And you know, helping in thenew year and what does a lot of
this mean for our folks inenablement and helping to really
empower the sales team.
So, happy holidays everybody.
Make sure to subscribe, sharethis with your other sales
friends, buddies, and yeah,we'll see you in 2025.
Have a great new year y'all.
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