September 4, 2025 • 34 mins
Friendships across political divides are rare these days, but Carmen and Andrea prove it's still possible in their bold new show "Culture and Consequence." Their honest, sometimes heated conversation reveals how two people can see America through completely different lenses while maintaining deep respect for each other.
Carmen shares her journey from uncritical patriotism to a more nuanced view of American possibility, while Andrea explains how her childhood experiences led her to question American exceptionalism from an early age. What unfolds is a fascinating exploration of how our personal backgrounds shape our political beliefs, and whether it's possible to love a country while acknowledging its deep flaws.
The discussion heats up when Governor Gavin Newsom enters the conversation. Andrea's skepticism about his recent rightward moves contrasts with Carmen's defense of his record, revealing a key tension within progressive politics – the balance between ideological purity and pragmatic coalition-building. Their passionate debate mirrors conversations happening across the country about what we should expect from our political leaders.
Beyond specific politicians, Carmen and Andrea tackle fundamental questions about American democracy: Can good people thrive in a political system dominated by money? Why do Democrats often demand perfection while Republicans rally behind deeply flawed candidates? And most importantly, is there hope for bridging our divides when misinformation runs rampant?
The episode ends with a surprising discovery of common ground, as both hosts agree that most Americans are more moderate than extreme political rhetoric suggests. Their friendship models what healthy political discourse can look like – passionate but respectful, challenging but loving.
Join us weekly for "Culture and Consequence" as we navigate the messy reality of American politics together. Because understanding each other might be our best hope for healing our divided nation.
Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share. You can also support us by shopping at our STORE - We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.
Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth
DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carmen Lezeth (00:00):
Hi everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
This is Culture in Consequence.
You just straightened up somuch.
I'm Carmen Lisa, your host, andAndrea's in the house.
Hey, andrea, hello, hieverybody.
Yeah, why do you look so good?
What's happening?
It's been a minute.
Yeah, look girl.
What's happening Like it's beena minute.
(00:23):
Yeah, look girl, I cannot helpmy beauty, okay, hey, so this is
our first episode.
We've been kind of talkingabout this for years to be doing
a show.
We had tried to do one a whileback, and now that I'm in the
(00:45):
mode, and now that it becomesone of the shows that All About
the Joy does, I'm just glad thatwe've decided to do it.
So, thank you.
Andrea (00:50):
Yes, I'm happy to be here.
I remember that we did this afew times way, way, way back.
I think it was even duringCOVID times and it was fun.
We had some good conversationsbut, like you said, it wasn't
really in a routine, in the mode.
So I'm excited.
Carmen Lezeth (01:10):
So, for people who don't know, this show is
going to touch on a lot ofthings that we don't talk about
on all the other shows.
Maybe a little bit on CarmenTalk.
When I do my little, I need tovent about something, so I'll do
my little kind of impromptu TEDTalks.
So I'll talk about politics,but we're going to dive into
politics and social issues.
(01:32):
So culture and consequences,because there are consequences
to all of this, and if we canteach something along the way,
that may not happen, though.
Folks, it's my intention to wantto teach things along the way
know, folks, it's my intentionto want to teach things along
the way.
And this came up becausesomebody was spewing lots of
crap about redistricting,because they didn't understand
(01:52):
what actually happens when weredistrict, and so I started to
explain to them, and I was likeyou know what?
I need to do a show because I'mtired of people talking
bullshittery.
So the purpose of the showwasn't for us to teach stuff,
but it really is.
To yell at Andrea about howwrong she is, about her liberal
ass is really what it is.
I'm just kidding.
Andrea (02:13):
Why are you doing this?
Why are?
Carmen Lezeth (02:15):
you doing this, besides the fact that you love
me and you know well, mostlybecause I love you, even though
you're so mean to me.
Andrea (02:28):
I mean to everyone I am , I am, I'm not special.
Carmen Lezeth (02:32):
Equal opportunity mean person.
Andrea (02:35):
No, I'm doing this because I, we just I think we
have great conversations and Ithink before any of this, all
along, we've sort of been likehow do we just record ourselves
talking, you know, because it'shilarious for us, right, and I
think I'm just going to put itout there that maybe you've
learned a few things from me andI have learned a few things
(02:56):
from you.
It's true.
Yeah, I mean, maybe if there'ssome, some learning or even just
some inspiration to perhaps goand learn on your own, that
would be lovely yeah, it's truethat we've learned from each
(03:17):
other.
Carmen Lezeth (03:17):
I think I admitted recently to you, in the
past couple years, and I thinknow I regret admitting it to you
, but I just I have always.
So let's just get into it.
Like, I've always loved thiscountry.
I've always been.
I used to have a flag on my car, a little sticker, like it's no
longer there, but I've always Iknow it's so weird, let me just
(03:41):
turn this off, I forgot it wason.
I've always been very patrioticand loved my country and was
very rah, rah, rah.
Let's see the other side of it,to the extent that when I
worked at a major company andwas an executive, I would listen
to KABC, which at the time Idon't know what it is now, but
(04:03):
it would be like Sean Hannity,larry Elder what's the other
creepy guy?
Andrea (04:10):
There are so many that she's Bill O'Reilly.
Carmen Lezeth (04:12):
I used to listen to them in my office, even
though I have always been moreof a conservative Democrat, but
I've always been a Democrat andI would listen to them because
I'd want to listen to what theyhad to say.
And I remember some of ourfights would be about me
defending some oh, it's makingme nauseous.
(04:32):
Back when America was great, bythe way, I'm just kidding, I'm
just kidding I had the abilityto at least listen to the other
side in a way, because at leastI thought they weren't so much
making sense, but I felt like ifI could understand where they
were coming from, it would makeme a better person.
(04:53):
But that has completely changednow, 100%.
And I see what you were sayingabout this country, that I would
not believe, oh God.
Well, now you better explainwhat we're talking about.
Like your thoughts on theUnited States of America, oh God
, okay.
Andrea (05:15):
I'm just going to preface this by saying that, you
know, I was born in anothercountry, it was on an army base,
but like, I came to the UnitedStates, kind of aware of what it
was like to be in other places,right, and that other places
(05:35):
were great and lovely and hadsome wonderful things about them
, right.
I was very young, you know, andI don't know why I've told you
this before, but you know I justsort of always had an interest
in politics.
I just always did.
I don't know why.
We moved back to the UnitedStates the day Nixon resigned,
(05:57):
Just FYI.
And my mom always joked, likeyou know, oh, it was safe to
come back now, Right.
Like you know, oh, it was safeto come back now, right.
Yeah.
So we thought and back.
You know, when I was young Iused to watch the State of the
(06:20):
Union every year this is in theReagan years.
I watched every single State ofthe Union and always, always
thought this lying motherfucker,um the trickle down theory
didn't work for you, then Idon't know, and I was young
rightand I just always was like no,
no, no, no, no, no, like what Iwas seeing.
(06:43):
I lived in I would say like alower middle class neighborhood,
very diverse and just you knowcame from.
I wouldn't say my family wasimmigrants, but you know they
were Mexican, and so just what Isaw and what I felt did not
match up with what I was hearing.
And I was always a prettyobservant kid, so all of that,
(07:07):
to preface that and I was a bigreader, I was very into history
I just always felt like I had amore realistic view of the
United States.
I guess is the way that Ialways thought of it.
I was like I don't have rosecolored glasses on.
I would never, ever say this isthe greatest country in the
(07:30):
world.
I don't.
I just I want to be clear.
Carmen Lezeth (07:33):
She has never said that.
I just also want to say thatpeople I'm sure just heard that
you are Mexican People are goingto be a little confused, and
you should not be.
It means you know nothing aboutthe diaspora of the Latino
community.
But go ahead.
I just, I love that you threwthat in there.
Andrea (07:54):
I love that.
Yeah, the actual makeup of alot of people in this country,
right In the United States, soyeah, I just, you know, never
really got the feeling ofAmerican exceptionalism and,
like I said, I read a lot, soyou know I understood many of
(08:18):
the things that we did in LatinAmerica and you know, around the
world and continue, you know, Imean, this was in the eighties,
that I was, you know, like IranContra, like hello people.
You know what I mean.
You know Oliver North and allof that Right, who is now, I
guess you know, back in the foldwhatever.
Um, you know what I mean.
(08:39):
So I just had what I think is,I guess, maybe like a different
level of awareness for a personmy age and I don't know, I don't
know how else to say it.
Carmen Lezeth (08:54):
No, no, I think you said it perfectly well, and
every time you're sayingsomething I'm holding back so
that you can, because I thinkthe flip side of it for me was I
didn't know anything aboutReagan.
I grew up the way I grew up,which was without parents,
basically, and at the age of 12.
And so I was in survival modeon a day to day.
(09:17):
And I would also say, in myneighborhood, I don't remember
politics being the thing wediscussed, like I don't ever
remember politics beingsomething that was important or
I didn't know anything about it.
And I'll say this even as a kid, I don't think I would have
known who the president of theUnited States was, whereas I
know my godchildren knew whenthey were five or whatever.
(09:40):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I just it wasn't part ofmy everyday makeup, so, and the
other part of it was, I thinkfor me there's the overarching
umbrella of hope and possibility, which is why people come to
this country and have nothingand have a decent life right,
(10:02):
that whole kind of I mean now Ican look back and be like, okay,
all that was what it was, morestory, especially if you were a
woman or a person of color orLGBTQ or whatever we want to,
you know, go down that kind ofdiscussion.
(10:24):
But I think for me the UnitedStates was always something
about the possibility of hopeand I don't think that's still
not true.
I mean, I think it'sdisparaging and horrible the
situation we're in now, but theidea of possibility still exists
(10:44):
of who we can be.
But I think I didn't knowenough about the history of our
country, especially as a BlackLatina woman, but definitely as
a Black woman did not understandhow much this country lied
about our history and continuesto lie about it, which I don't
understand, why we don't embraceour actual history and actually
(11:08):
become a great country becauseof it or in spite of it, you
know.
Andrea (11:12):
But yeah, I mean, look, there is a lot of opportunity
here.
There's no doubt about it,right, like you know, in my own
family living proof of, like,you can come to this country and
you can make a great life foryourself.
Right, and there are millionsof people who have done that
over, you know, the last coupleof hundred years.
(11:32):
Right, but there are issues.
Right, there are problems,there are things that we have
not dealt with, that we deny,that we cover up, and I
completely agree with you toactually look at those things
honestly and be able to say,yeah, hey, we did this.
It's terrible that we did this,here's what we learned and now
(11:56):
we're going to move forward.
That's something that we havereally not done in any large
scale way.
That would be so, so beneficial.
I mean, that's how people grow.
Everybody knows that's howpeople grow, right, you own up
to your mistakes, you takeresponsibility and you do better
(12:16):
.
Carmen Lezeth (12:18):
We all know that.
I don't know why it's so hard.
I mean, I do know why, right?
Racism, sexism, homophobia, Imean we can go down the list.
Andrea (12:28):
When I think about us talking about politics over the
last 20, whatever years, I'malways like because they're
racist, because it's racist,because racism.
Carmen Lezeth (12:39):
Andrea has always been that person and I'm always
like, but but what?
I think it's also been hard towant to believe that.
Like as a person of color, it'shard to keep thinking that
we're still here.
We're still I mean, I'm sure,as a white person as well it's
like why are we still having thesame conversation that Martin
(13:02):
Luther King Jr and Malcolm X X?
And we can go back like, justwhy are we still having the same
conversation?
And now it's even worse.
Andrea (13:13):
I mean, yeah, reverting , right, we're going backwards
at a fast, fast clip.
Yeah, it's so mind-boggling,right.
Like what are you so afraid of?
Carmen Lezeth (13:28):
So this is what we're going to discuss and fix
about our country in our podcast.
That's what we're here to do.
We're going to figure outwhat's wrong with this mofo
country and fix it now, allright, well, let's talk about
someone who's trying to dosomething a little bit different
your favorite person andgovernor, because this is where
(13:52):
we have had arguments aboutGovernor Gavin Newsom.
Andrea (13:58):
I just want to say that I have been mentally prepping
for this conversation for likethree weeks.
I've got my arguments all laidout.
Okay, I've got my evidence overhere.
Carmen Lezeth (14:11):
I'm just saying there was a moment where you
relented as well, and this iswhere we learn from each other.
But you can give us yourfeelings on Governor Gavin
Newsom and then I will rebut itand put you back on track.
Andrea (14:28):
As you know, yes, I have never trusted him fully,
right Like I don't know.
Yes, I have never trusted himfully, right, right, like, uh, I
don't know, I'm waiting for theother shoe, I'm waiting.
And then I was like, okay, okay, he's fine.
And then it finally dropped andI was like I fucking knew it,
(14:51):
you piece of shit.
Carmen Lezeth (14:51):
Right and it dropped, Meaning he was like I
fucking knew it, you piece ofshit.
Right and it dropped meaning hedid that podcast with Charlie
Kirk and them.
Is that it, or are we talkingabout beforehand?
Andrea (14:58):
But honestly, before that, if you remember I can't
remember exactly when it was Ishould have looked at this
because I was truly like I gotto have receipts.
Carmen Lezeth (15:08):
It's okay, I think it was last year, it's
okay.
Andrea (15:10):
I think it was California Last year he came
down here and I believe it wasin Northridge and was all having
a temper tantrum and cleaned upa homeless encampment and just
throwing everybody's stuff awayand I was like what in the hell
does this man think he is doing?
It looked like a temper tantrum.
(15:32):
That's what it looked like tome.
And then, of course, when hefinally has the chance to say
what Gavin wants to say and talkto who Gavin wants to talk to.
Who is it?
Who is it?
Who does he platform?
Who does he want to be inconversation with?
Carmen Lezeth (15:53):
Yeah, he spoke with Charlie Kirk and Steve
Bannon.
Andrea (15:57):
Yeah, and has gone on other right wing podcasts and
you know, is, you know, has gone.
Maybe you know too far with therights of some other human
beings, apparently like with therights.
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about trans rights.
Um, yeah, apparently like withthe rights.
(16:20):
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about trans rights.
Um, yeah, it's just now.
I will say the man knows how tofight.
He's a little asshole and youknow he's our asshole.
He's our asshole.
You know what I mean, unlessyou're, you know, homeless or
trans, but you know what I mean.
He knows how to fight and, uh,no, I like that.
He's doing that.
Um, I, my great hope for whathe's doing is that other
(16:41):
democratic leaders, uh, see thatand see the attention that he's
getting and, uh, you know,start to do their own version of
that which, frankly, is whateveryone should have been doing
all along, from the moment thatdude came down the elevator.
That's what everybody shouldRepublicans and Democrats should
have been doing this all along.
(17:01):
So, you know, my hope is thatsomeone who may be with a little
less, I don't know, whatever.
Carmen Lezeth (17:12):
I love Gavin Newsom.
I hate it.
So I have the opposite thing.
I've always respected him,always loved him.
I do think part of why you hatehim we've had this conversation
is he is so soap opera goodlooking.
He just has that slick.
You've called him slick so manytimes.
Andrea (17:31):
I call him slick and he's got that smile with a
little like like the littlesparkle yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (17:39):
And I've never really looked at that so much.
I mean, I do think he's goodlooking, but I've always kind of
thought that works for him,it's not his fault, he's good
looking, or whatever.
I actually and I and I thinkthis is when you relented a
little bit because I thinkthere's a part of him that does
come across as I don't know whyI'm going to say this because
(18:01):
it's so old fashioned but toobig for his britches or whatever
.
He just comes across as smarmyand I get it.
I get why people can see that.
But I have always thought ofhim when he was mayor and the
whole gay rights thing, and hewas one of the first people and
at the end of the day, I don'tcare what he looks like or what
(18:24):
he comes across, as he did theright thing without hesitation.
There was no, like you know,equivocation or thinking about
it, and I love Barack Obama, buthe was like he equivocated.
So I think that's part of it.
I think the other part of ittoo is because I know and I
(18:44):
think I told you this especiallywhen I found out about it that
he's dyslexic, which I think issomething that he doesn't like.
He doesn't use that as a thingto make himself be relatable,
and I think somebody should havetold him to do that a long time
ago, but he didn't.
And he also grew up with fostercare kids because his mom, when
(19:07):
they were divorced, when hismom and dad got divorced in
order for his mom to make moremoney, she had foster kids come
into the house and he stillcalls one of them his brothers
and he's Black, and so I feellike he has this well-rounded
kind of upbringing.
And, yes, there's the partwhere, on his father's side, he
(19:30):
grew up with the Getty family,right.
So he has this duality ofgrowing up extremely kind of I
don't want to say extremely poor, but they were hardworking and
they had a terrible divorcething.
And then he has the Gettyfamily who were kind of like his
mentors and whateverBenefactors Benefactors.
But you know what I wish someof the rich people I knew in my
(19:51):
life would be benefactors like I.
That's how I so that's how Irelate to him a little bit more
is like like I'm going to be madat him because people helped
him so, but so so I look at Ithink somebody said this the
other day, so I can't even takeum credit for this.
I think, as Democrats whetherit's your kind of Democrat which
(20:14):
is like left-leaning to theother extreme, I'm not.
I'm still more to the middleand I'm not a Democrat anymore.
I became an independent afterthe Joe Biden debacle, which
we'll talk about some other time, but I still will always be on
the Democratic bandwagon.
There's not a question aboutthat.
But we keep wanting the perfectcandidate.
(20:36):
I think this is what I getannoyed at with the Democrat.
We have so many boxes that needto be checked and the candidate
needs to be absolutely perfect.
Do I think Gavin Newsom sucks atthe homeless issue?
Yes, I do, I do.
I think he's horrible.
Do I think he's tried?
Okay, I don't know as much asany other politician has, and
(20:59):
he's been horrible at it, but dowe throw him completely out?
And which candidate is perfect?
Which one?
And I think that's what bothersme about the Gavin Newsom-isms,
you know.
And yeah, he's fighting now andwe need somebody to fight, but
even before that, I was achampion of Gavin Newsom, the
Charlie Kirk thing and thefucking Steve Bannon.
(21:21):
I was.
You know, I was pissed.
I text you.
I'm like I'm done.
I'm now done.
I hear you.
You were right.
I was pissed, and now he'sactually using that.
Andrea (21:50):
And now he's actually using that and this is that
strategy, like now he's usingthat as a way to get.
I know, I know it's it'spolitics, and now he's using
that to swarm his way into thatavenue of.
Christianity.
Okay, that's my argument.
Okay, I hear you and you knowwho I am.
Like my vote we discussed thismany, many times right, like, I
vote with my heart in theprimary and my head in the
general.
So you know we will, and we arethree years away and that is
like 17 lifetimes.
So who even knows?
(22:10):
You know.
I'm not worried about that youknow what I mean, but I just
feel like why on earth would youmove to the right?
Those people are not going tovote for you.
They are, yeah I don't thinkit's still.
(22:31):
you've got a whole chunk ofpeople who are never going to
vote for a Democrat and thenyou've got some people who are
maybe like they are not going tovote for Gavin Newsom.
I am not going to.
That's not why he did it.
If you're supposed to be aKamala Harris San Francisco
liberal, why would you go to theright and turn your back on the
(22:52):
people who have supported youfor your entire political career
?
Carmen Lezeth (22:57):
Okay, the fact that you're making me defend him
is pissing me off, but I'mgoing to defend him.
He was just on Pivot thepodcast with Karen Switzer,
because the other guy is out orwhatever.
So he was just on there and Iwas just listening to him and I
don't think he I mean I waspissed when he did it and I was.
I'm still angry about it, butwhat I am going to say is that
now he's using it as a talkingpoint and so, strategy wise,
(23:21):
this is why you and I couldnever be politicians, because
we're too authentically like no,we must be good and do what we
have to do and be be consciousabout it.
But he's now on that, on thatpodcast and in other interviews,
he's like we have to talk tothe other side.
That's why I spoke to the otherside, because we have to be
(23:42):
able to communicate, and I'mlike whoa, like that's why he
did it, so that he could say heis trying to talk to the other
side.
He doesn't expect them to votefor him.
Andrea (23:51):
He's not, he's being Okay, so meanwhile, he's lost
votes on the left, so this isnot a winner.
Carmen Lezeth (23:59):
He's got it back.
Are you kidding me?
Yes, bo, first of all, you justsaid we have like three years
before we have to start, orwhatever.
Two years before we have tostart.
I do think he's thinking aboutthe presidency.
I'm not crazy about that, thatwe're on the same page.
Andrea (24:16):
You've been thinking about the presidency for 10
years.
Carmen Lezeth (24:19):
And yet he would have always.
And he see, this is where youand I have fights, this is where
you and I fight.
And yet, when asked when JoeBiden got out of the race and
people were clamoring for him torun, he did the right thing and
said I'm not running, I amvoting for Kamala Harris, and
that's where I will give himintegrity.
(24:41):
I'm sorry, he's a party man.
He is a party man, but he'salso a good man, which I know
you and I have.
I can see your face.
Andrea (24:51):
Beg to differ.
Carmen Lezeth (24:54):
Okay, who would be a good politician to you?
Who's a good man, a good woman.
Andrea (24:59):
Okay.
Well, let me start by saying Idon't know if I believe that
there are any good politicians.
Carmen Lezeth (25:05):
Okay, yeah, all right.
Well, I can't help.
And you asked me to run foroffice.
Remember, we had this real.
You see what I'm saying?
Like that's not fair, I think.
I think there are good peoplewho want to do the right thing.
Andrea (25:18):
No, there are.
I mean, yes, I was beingfacetious, but you know, I think
it's really hard to be a goodperson and a politician.
Carmen Lezeth (25:28):
At the same time, I do believe that I think
that's a very difficult line towalk.
I don't believe that's true.
Andrea (25:44):
I don't believe that's true.
You're pessimistic.
I'm optimistic on this, yeah,and I also.
As you know, I don't idolize orlike hero, and I'm not saying
you do, but I know some peopledo you know hero?
Worship any of these people atall?
I love gavin newsom you knowwhat I mean.
Like people wait, I mean, well,that's what's happening with
trump.
(26:04):
Yeah, I know, right, peoplemake it their whole personality
and it's like you know what Imean.
Like I don't feel that wayabout anybody.
Even obama, right, like waslike this is just a man.
He's not going to be able to doall of the things you think you
want him to do.
You know, let's all calm down.
So, you know, is there someoneright now I can point to and be
(26:25):
like that's someone I would wantto run?
Honestly, no.
Carmen Lezeth (26:30):
Well, not about running, but I mean you said
there are not.
You can't be good, good personand a politician I think a
Jasmine Crockett, you know.
I think these are good peopletrying to do the right thing.
Will they get swept up in thebullshittery eventually?
Probably because it's thenature of politics.
That's not excusing it.
Andrea (26:49):
Yeah, no, I know I don't.
Like I said, I was being alittle bit facetious, like I
don't think they're not goodpeople.
I do think it's difficult,though, right, you need money.
That's the way that it is.
Carmen Lezeth (26:59):
We want to thank the Supreme Court for making
that even a more importantsituation.
Andrea (27:04):
And so that's, I believe, what makes it so hard
to be true to your values andall of those things is like, at
some point you you're eithergonna get a bunch of money you
have to be like, you know, thissuper charismatic, like aoc type
of person who can get donationsfrom literally all over the
(27:26):
world and build a war chest oryou've got to go out and seek it
from donors, in which caseyou're beholden to them, and you
know what I mean.
Carmen Lezeth (27:33):
It's just very challenging, right but isn't
that why we need to make surethat we vote?
Because what made it worse wasthe Supreme Court basically
saying that corporations arepeople and have the same right,
and so I mean, look, I agreewith you on that.
But that's not about GavinNewsom or AOC or Barack Obama.
That's about how we've allowedour institutions to be okay,
(27:58):
with money being the way inwhich we determine who our
candidates and governors andwhatever are.
Andrea (28:07):
Yeah, and I think it goes back to this idea of the
perfect candidate, right, likeyou know.
Yes, I believe you're right.
Like democrats are oftenlooking for checks every single
one of my boxes, and if this youknow box 73a isn't checked,
then you're out, right, likethat's a little ridiculous.
Carmen Lezeth (28:24):
And if you're a woman completely out you're not
even talking about that anymore.
Andrea (28:32):
Sorry, um, you know what I mean, but like that's, I
think, a more difficult thing todo.
Because of the money, right,because of the need for the
money, right, and if you don'thave the money, you can't get in
front of people, you don't havethe machine that it takes to,
(28:53):
you know, become a name andbecome known and get your
message out there and all ofthose kinds of things.
It's just, yeah, it's a hotmess.
Carmen Lezeth (28:59):
We are on the same page on that, I think.
For me I will.
I always believe in the best,in people.
I know this drives you up awall, like I still have faith in
the American people, and eventhe ones I know, I know.
Andrea (29:18):
What did you just say?
I said are you kidding me?
Carmen Lezeth (29:21):
I do, I have to.
Well, what's the point then?
Why not just move to anothercountry right now?
Why not just go?
Andrea (29:29):
I mean, yeah, I would, if I could.
You know what's so funny.
Carmen Lezeth (29:34):
I know you would, that just killed me.
I just look.
Andrea (29:40):
I will say, like I generally believe that most
people are good, I do, I reallydo, Unless they're Republican.
Unless they're Republican.
Most people aren't Republican.
Carmen Lezeth (29:57):
I know Most people think they're Republican,
but they're not the more youknow, right the more you know,
and then we'll get into all that.
Right.
Andrea (30:08):
Yeah, there's possibly multiple generations of you know
what?
Is it deprogramming that needsto be done in this country in
order for us to, in order for meto believe that you know the
American people want what's best?
(30:29):
I don't know.
Carmen Lezeth (30:30):
I didn't say that , right, I just wanted to say
that I know I said I have faithin the American people.
I because I don't know how elseto function, especially as a
black, latina woman, except tothink hope that there are more
people who understand andbelieve what we believe
(30:53):
fundamentally than not Do.
I think we lack a lot ofeducation in this country, for
sure, for sure, especially whenit comes to politics, and I
think if there's anything thathas been revealed during this
time of Trumpism, it's that Isthat so many people do not know
what they're talking about, aregetting misinformation from
(31:13):
people who are pretending toknow what they're talking about
because they're making money offof them, and maybe this is
where we live.
Andrea (31:21):
I don't know, maybe this is the vast right-wing
conspiracy to throw us back.
This is the multi-decade.
You know, I harangue about thisall the time and my kids are
like oh my god, shut up.
This is the multi-decadeRepublican project to gut public
(31:42):
education.
We are reaping the rewards, ifyou will, of that project, which
has been extraordinarilysuccessful.
Extraordinarily successful,honestly likeordinarily
successful.
Carmen Lezeth (31:55):
You know honestly like you said credit to the
Heritage Foundation.
Right, let's give a shout outto the Heritage Foundation who
did Project 25 or whatever it is.
Andrea (32:04):
Yes, and have been working on gutting Newt Gingrich
and Mitch McConnell.
Yes, you know, like you did it.
Carmen Lezeth (32:12):
Destroying our country.
Andrea (32:13):
Thank you, we appreciate you.
Carmen Lezeth (32:14):
Thank you, we appreciate you.
Thank you, and Clarence ThomasShout out to you boo Scalia,
scalia, woo, yeah, see at theend of the day we really do
believe kind of the same thing,like it's so funny, like we have
this kind of inter I don't knowarguments back and forth, but
(32:34):
when it comes right down to itwe actually do.
And this is the thing that Iknow is going to kill you a
little bit.
I actually believe most peoplein the United States are more to
the middle than not.
It's kind of that idea thatmost people think they're
Republican and they're not.
Andrea (32:48):
I believe that too.
I 100% believe that, like Isaid, the vast majority of
people in this country are notRepublican, they're not and they
don't believe what thestatedment of the Republican
party Like you know what I mean.
Carmen Lezeth (33:15):
Like just stay out but somehow.
Andrea (33:17):
But we'll have to get back to that because that's
right, I'm from the governmentand I'm here to help.
Those are the scariest words inthe English language You're so
funny.
Carmen Lezeth (33:28):
This is going to be fun.
This is going to be fun.
Thank you for doing it Allright.
Well, I appreciate you beinghere, and that was not what I
thought we were going to talkabout, but it was kind of sorta
this is what we do.
Andrea (33:41):
This is like a phone call that we have.
Carmen Lezeth (33:43):
I know I thought it would be harder, but I think
it's going to work.
So, yeah, hey everyone.
We'll be back next week on AllAbout the Joy Culture and
Consequences with Carmen andAndrea, and until then, remember
it really is all about the joy.
Bye, everyone, bye.
Thanks for stopping by.
(34:06):
All About the Joy.
Be better and stay beautifulfolks.
Have a sweet day.
Hi everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
This is Culture in Consequence.
You just straightened up somuch.
I'm Carmen Lisa, your host, andAndrea's in the house.
Hey, andrea, hello, hieverybody.
Yeah, why do you look so good?
What's happening?
It's been a minute.
Yeah, look girl.
What's happening Like it's beena minute.
(00:23):
Yeah, look girl, I cannot helpmy beauty, okay, hey, so this is
our first episode.
We've been kind of talkingabout this for years to be doing
a show.
We had tried to do one a whileback, and now that I'm in the
(00:45):
mode, and now that it becomesone of the shows that All About
the Joy does, I'm just glad thatwe've decided to do it.
So, thank you.
Andrea (00:50):
Yes, I'm happy to be here.
I remember that we did this afew times way, way, way back.
I think it was even duringCOVID times and it was fun.
We had some good conversationsbut, like you said, it wasn't
really in a routine, in the mode.
So I'm excited.
Carmen Lezeth (01:10):
So, for people who don't know, this show is
going to touch on a lot ofthings that we don't talk about
on all the other shows.
Maybe a little bit on CarmenTalk.
When I do my little, I need tovent about something, so I'll do
my little kind of impromptu TEDTalks.
So I'll talk about politics,but we're going to dive into
politics and social issues.
(01:32):
So culture and consequences,because there are consequences
to all of this, and if we canteach something along the way,
that may not happen, though.
Folks, it's my intention to wantto teach things along the way
know, folks, it's my intentionto want to teach things along
the way.
And this came up becausesomebody was spewing lots of
crap about redistricting,because they didn't understand
(01:52):
what actually happens when weredistrict, and so I started to
explain to them, and I was likeyou know what?
I need to do a show because I'mtired of people talking
bullshittery.
So the purpose of the showwasn't for us to teach stuff,
but it really is.
To yell at Andrea about howwrong she is, about her liberal
ass is really what it is.
I'm just kidding.
Andrea (02:13):
Why are you doing this?
Why are?
Carmen Lezeth (02:15):
you doing this, besides the fact that you love
me and you know well, mostlybecause I love you, even though
you're so mean to me.
Andrea (02:28):
I mean to everyone I am , I am, I'm not special.
Carmen Lezeth (02:32):
Equal opportunity mean person.
Andrea (02:35):
No, I'm doing this because I, we just I think we
have great conversations and Ithink before any of this, all
along, we've sort of been likehow do we just record ourselves
talking, you know, because it'shilarious for us, right, and I
think I'm just going to put itout there that maybe you've
learned a few things from me andI have learned a few things
(02:56):
from you.
It's true.
Yeah, I mean, maybe if there'ssome, some learning or even just
some inspiration to perhaps goand learn on your own, that
would be lovely yeah, it's truethat we've learned from each
(03:17):
other.
Carmen Lezeth (03:17):
I think I admitted recently to you, in the
past couple years, and I thinknow I regret admitting it to you
, but I just I have always.
So let's just get into it.
Like, I've always loved thiscountry.
I've always been.
I used to have a flag on my car, a little sticker, like it's no
longer there, but I've always Iknow it's so weird, let me just
(03:41):
turn this off, I forgot it wason.
I've always been very patrioticand loved my country and was
very rah, rah, rah.
Let's see the other side of it,to the extent that when I
worked at a major company andwas an executive, I would listen
to KABC, which at the time Idon't know what it is now, but
(04:03):
it would be like Sean Hannity,larry Elder what's the other
creepy guy?
Andrea (04:10):
There are so many that she's Bill O'Reilly.
Carmen Lezeth (04:12):
I used to listen to them in my office, even
though I have always been moreof a conservative Democrat, but
I've always been a Democrat andI would listen to them because
I'd want to listen to what theyhad to say.
And I remember some of ourfights would be about me
defending some oh, it's makingme nauseous.
(04:32):
Back when America was great, bythe way, I'm just kidding, I'm
just kidding I had the abilityto at least listen to the other
side in a way, because at leastI thought they weren't so much
making sense, but I felt like ifI could understand where they
were coming from, it would makeme a better person.
(04:53):
But that has completely changednow, 100%.
And I see what you were sayingabout this country, that I would
not believe, oh God.
Well, now you better explainwhat we're talking about.
Like your thoughts on theUnited States of America, oh God
, okay.
Andrea (05:15):
I'm just going to preface this by saying that, you
know, I was born in anothercountry, it was on an army base,
but like, I came to the UnitedStates, kind of aware of what it
was like to be in other places,right, and that other places
(05:35):
were great and lovely and hadsome wonderful things about them
, right.
I was very young, you know, andI don't know why I've told you
this before, but you know I justsort of always had an interest
in politics.
I just always did.
I don't know why.
We moved back to the UnitedStates the day Nixon resigned,
(05:57):
Just FYI.
And my mom always joked, likeyou know, oh, it was safe to
come back now, Right.
Like you know, oh, it was safeto come back now, right.
Yeah.
So we thought and back.
You know, when I was young Iused to watch the State of the
(06:20):
Union every year this is in theReagan years.
I watched every single State ofthe Union and always, always
thought this lying motherfucker,um the trickle down theory
didn't work for you, then Idon't know, and I was young
rightand I just always was like no,
no, no, no, no, no, like what Iwas seeing.
(06:43):
I lived in I would say like alower middle class neighborhood,
very diverse and just you knowcame from.
I wouldn't say my family wasimmigrants, but you know they
were Mexican, and so just what Isaw and what I felt did not
match up with what I was hearing.
And I was always a prettyobservant kid, so all of that,
(07:07):
to preface that and I was a bigreader, I was very into history
I just always felt like I had amore realistic view of the
United States.
I guess is the way that Ialways thought of it.
I was like I don't have rosecolored glasses on.
I would never, ever say this isthe greatest country in the
(07:30):
world.
I don't.
I just I want to be clear.
Carmen Lezeth (07:33):
She has never said that.
I just also want to say thatpeople I'm sure just heard that
you are Mexican People are goingto be a little confused, and
you should not be.
It means you know nothing aboutthe diaspora of the Latino
community.
But go ahead.
I just, I love that you threwthat in there.
Andrea (07:54):
I love that.
Yeah, the actual makeup of alot of people in this country,
right In the United States, soyeah, I just, you know, never
really got the feeling ofAmerican exceptionalism and,
like I said, I read a lot, soyou know I understood many of
(08:18):
the things that we did in LatinAmerica and you know, around the
world and continue, you know, Imean, this was in the eighties,
that I was, you know, like IranContra, like hello people.
You know what I mean.
You know Oliver North and allof that Right, who is now, I
guess you know, back in the foldwhatever.
Um, you know what I mean.
(08:39):
So I just had what I think is,I guess, maybe like a different
level of awareness for a personmy age and I don't know, I don't
know how else to say it.
Carmen Lezeth (08:54):
No, no, I think you said it perfectly well, and
every time you're sayingsomething I'm holding back so
that you can, because I thinkthe flip side of it for me was I
didn't know anything aboutReagan.
I grew up the way I grew up,which was without parents,
basically, and at the age of 12.
And so I was in survival modeon a day to day.
(09:17):
And I would also say, in myneighborhood, I don't remember
politics being the thing wediscussed, like I don't ever
remember politics beingsomething that was important or
I didn't know anything about it.
And I'll say this even as a kid, I don't think I would have
known who the president of theUnited States was, whereas I
know my godchildren knew whenthey were five or whatever.
(09:40):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I just it wasn't part ofmy everyday makeup, so, and the
other part of it was, I thinkfor me there's the overarching
umbrella of hope and possibility, which is why people come to
this country and have nothingand have a decent life right,
(10:02):
that whole kind of I mean now Ican look back and be like, okay,
all that was what it was, morestory, especially if you were a
woman or a person of color orLGBTQ or whatever we want to,
you know, go down that kind ofdiscussion.
(10:24):
But I think for me the UnitedStates was always something
about the possibility of hopeand I don't think that's still
not true.
I mean, I think it'sdisparaging and horrible the
situation we're in now, but theidea of possibility still exists
(10:44):
of who we can be.
But I think I didn't knowenough about the history of our
country, especially as a BlackLatina woman, but definitely as
a Black woman did not understandhow much this country lied
about our history and continuesto lie about it, which I don't
understand, why we don't embraceour actual history and actually
(11:08):
become a great country becauseof it or in spite of it, you
know.
Andrea (11:12):
But yeah, I mean, look, there is a lot of opportunity
here.
There's no doubt about it,right, like you know, in my own
family living proof of, like,you can come to this country and
you can make a great life foryourself.
Right, and there are millionsof people who have done that
over, you know, the last coupleof hundred years.
(11:32):
Right, but there are issues.
Right, there are problems,there are things that we have
not dealt with, that we deny,that we cover up, and I
completely agree with you toactually look at those things
honestly and be able to say,yeah, hey, we did this.
It's terrible that we did this,here's what we learned and now
(11:56):
we're going to move forward.
That's something that we havereally not done in any large
scale way.
That would be so, so beneficial.
I mean, that's how people grow.
Everybody knows that's howpeople grow, right, you own up
to your mistakes, you takeresponsibility and you do better
(12:16):
.
Carmen Lezeth (12:18):
We all know that.
I don't know why it's so hard.
I mean, I do know why, right?
Racism, sexism, homophobia, Imean we can go down the list.
Andrea (12:28):
When I think about us talking about politics over the
last 20, whatever years, I'malways like because they're
racist, because it's racist,because racism.
Carmen Lezeth (12:39):
Andrea has always been that person and I'm always
like, but but what?
I think it's also been hard towant to believe that.
Like as a person of color, it'shard to keep thinking that
we're still here.
We're still I mean, I'm sure,as a white person as well it's
like why are we still having thesame conversation that Martin
(13:02):
Luther King Jr and Malcolm X X?
And we can go back like, justwhy are we still having the same
conversation?
And now it's even worse.
Andrea (13:13):
I mean, yeah, reverting , right, we're going backwards
at a fast, fast clip.
Yeah, it's so mind-boggling,right.
Like what are you so afraid of?
Carmen Lezeth (13:28):
So this is what we're going to discuss and fix
about our country in our podcast.
That's what we're here to do.
We're going to figure outwhat's wrong with this mofo
country and fix it now, allright, well, let's talk about
someone who's trying to dosomething a little bit different
your favorite person andgovernor, because this is where
(13:52):
we have had arguments aboutGovernor Gavin Newsom.
Andrea (13:58):
I just want to say that I have been mentally prepping
for this conversation for likethree weeks.
I've got my arguments all laidout.
Okay, I've got my evidence overhere.
Carmen Lezeth (14:11):
I'm just saying there was a moment where you
relented as well, and this iswhere we learn from each other.
But you can give us yourfeelings on Governor Gavin
Newsom and then I will rebut itand put you back on track.
Andrea (14:28):
As you know, yes, I have never trusted him fully,
right Like I don't know.
Yes, I have never trusted himfully, right, right, like, uh, I
don't know, I'm waiting for theother shoe, I'm waiting.
And then I was like, okay, okay, he's fine.
And then it finally dropped andI was like I fucking knew it,
(14:51):
you piece of shit.
Carmen Lezeth (14:51):
Right and it dropped, Meaning he was like I
fucking knew it, you piece ofshit.
Right and it dropped meaning hedid that podcast with Charlie
Kirk and them.
Is that it, or are we talkingabout beforehand?
Andrea (14:58):
But honestly, before that, if you remember I can't
remember exactly when it was Ishould have looked at this
because I was truly like I gotto have receipts.
Carmen Lezeth (15:08):
It's okay, I think it was last year, it's
okay.
Andrea (15:10):
I think it was California Last year he came
down here and I believe it wasin Northridge and was all having
a temper tantrum and cleaned upa homeless encampment and just
throwing everybody's stuff awayand I was like what in the hell
does this man think he is doing?
It looked like a temper tantrum.
(15:32):
That's what it looked like tome.
And then, of course, when hefinally has the chance to say
what Gavin wants to say and talkto who Gavin wants to talk to.
Who is it?
Who is it?
Who does he platform?
Who does he want to be inconversation with?
Carmen Lezeth (15:53):
Yeah, he spoke with Charlie Kirk and Steve
Bannon.
Andrea (15:57):
Yeah, and has gone on other right wing podcasts and
you know, is, you know, has gone.
Maybe you know too far with therights of some other human
beings, apparently like with therights.
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about trans rights.
Um, yeah, apparently like withthe rights.
(16:20):
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about trans rights.
Um, yeah, it's just now.
I will say the man knows how tofight.
He's a little asshole and youknow he's our asshole.
He's our asshole.
You know what I mean, unlessyou're, you know, homeless or
trans, but you know what I mean.
He knows how to fight and, uh,no, I like that.
He's doing that.
Um, I, my great hope for whathe's doing is that other
(16:41):
democratic leaders, uh, see thatand see the attention that he's
getting and, uh, you know,start to do their own version of
that which, frankly, is whateveryone should have been doing
all along, from the moment thatdude came down the elevator.
That's what everybody shouldRepublicans and Democrats should
have been doing this all along.
(17:01):
So, you know, my hope is thatsomeone who may be with a little
less, I don't know, whatever.
Carmen Lezeth (17:12):
I love Gavin Newsom.
I hate it.
So I have the opposite thing.
I've always respected him,always loved him.
I do think part of why you hatehim we've had this conversation
is he is so soap opera goodlooking.
He just has that slick.
You've called him slick so manytimes.
Andrea (17:31):
I call him slick and he's got that smile with a
little like like the littlesparkle yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (17:39):
And I've never really looked at that so much.
I mean, I do think he's goodlooking, but I've always kind of
thought that works for him,it's not his fault, he's good
looking, or whatever.
I actually and I and I thinkthis is when you relented a
little bit because I thinkthere's a part of him that does
come across as I don't know whyI'm going to say this because
(18:01):
it's so old fashioned but toobig for his britches or whatever
.
He just comes across as smarmyand I get it.
I get why people can see that.
But I have always thought ofhim when he was mayor and the
whole gay rights thing, and hewas one of the first people and
at the end of the day, I don'tcare what he looks like or what
(18:24):
he comes across, as he did theright thing without hesitation.
There was no, like you know,equivocation or thinking about
it, and I love Barack Obama, buthe was like he equivocated.
So I think that's part of it.
I think the other part of ittoo is because I know and I
(18:44):
think I told you this especiallywhen I found out about it that
he's dyslexic, which I think issomething that he doesn't like.
He doesn't use that as a thingto make himself be relatable,
and I think somebody should havetold him to do that a long time
ago, but he didn't.
And he also grew up with fostercare kids because his mom, when
(19:07):
they were divorced, when hismom and dad got divorced in
order for his mom to make moremoney, she had foster kids come
into the house and he stillcalls one of them his brothers
and he's Black, and so I feellike he has this well-rounded
kind of upbringing.
And, yes, there's the partwhere, on his father's side, he
(19:30):
grew up with the Getty family,right.
So he has this duality ofgrowing up extremely kind of I
don't want to say extremely poor, but they were hardworking and
they had a terrible divorcething.
And then he has the Gettyfamily who were kind of like his
mentors and whateverBenefactors Benefactors.
But you know what I wish someof the rich people I knew in my
(19:51):
life would be benefactors like I.
That's how I so that's how Irelate to him a little bit more
is like like I'm going to be madat him because people helped
him so, but so so I look at Ithink somebody said this the
other day, so I can't even takeum credit for this.
I think, as Democrats whetherit's your kind of Democrat which
(20:14):
is like left-leaning to theother extreme, I'm not.
I'm still more to the middleand I'm not a Democrat anymore.
I became an independent afterthe Joe Biden debacle, which
we'll talk about some other time, but I still will always be on
the Democratic bandwagon.
There's not a question aboutthat.
But we keep wanting the perfectcandidate.
(20:36):
I think this is what I getannoyed at with the Democrat.
We have so many boxes that needto be checked and the candidate
needs to be absolutely perfect.
Do I think Gavin Newsom sucks atthe homeless issue?
Yes, I do, I do.
I think he's horrible.
Do I think he's tried?
Okay, I don't know as much asany other politician has, and
(20:59):
he's been horrible at it, but dowe throw him completely out?
And which candidate is perfect?
Which one?
And I think that's what bothersme about the Gavin Newsom-isms,
you know.
And yeah, he's fighting now andwe need somebody to fight, but
even before that, I was achampion of Gavin Newsom, the
Charlie Kirk thing and thefucking Steve Bannon.
(21:21):
I was.
You know, I was pissed.
I text you.
I'm like I'm done.
I'm now done.
I hear you.
You were right.
I was pissed, and now he'sactually using that.
Andrea (21:50):
And now he's actually using that and this is that
strategy, like now he's usingthat as a way to get.
I know, I know it's it'spolitics, and now he's using
that to swarm his way into thatavenue of.
Christianity.
Okay, that's my argument.
Okay, I hear you and you knowwho I am.
Like my vote we discussed thismany, many times right, like, I
vote with my heart in theprimary and my head in the
general.
So you know we will, and we arethree years away and that is
like 17 lifetimes.
So who even knows?
(22:10):
You know.
I'm not worried about that youknow what I mean, but I just
feel like why on earth would youmove to the right?
Those people are not going tovote for you.
They are, yeah I don't thinkit's still.
(22:31):
you've got a whole chunk ofpeople who are never going to
vote for a Democrat and thenyou've got some people who are
maybe like they are not going tovote for Gavin Newsom.
I am not going to.
That's not why he did it.
If you're supposed to be aKamala Harris San Francisco
liberal, why would you go to theright and turn your back on the
(22:52):
people who have supported youfor your entire political career
?
Carmen Lezeth (22:57):
Okay, the fact that you're making me defend him
is pissing me off, but I'mgoing to defend him.
He was just on Pivot thepodcast with Karen Switzer,
because the other guy is out orwhatever.
So he was just on there and Iwas just listening to him and I
don't think he I mean I waspissed when he did it and I was.
I'm still angry about it, butwhat I am going to say is that
now he's using it as a talkingpoint and so, strategy wise,
(23:21):
this is why you and I couldnever be politicians, because
we're too authentically like no,we must be good and do what we
have to do and be be consciousabout it.
But he's now on that, on thatpodcast and in other interviews,
he's like we have to talk tothe other side.
That's why I spoke to the otherside, because we have to be
(23:42):
able to communicate, and I'mlike whoa, like that's why he
did it, so that he could say heis trying to talk to the other
side.
He doesn't expect them to votefor him.
Andrea (23:51):
He's not, he's being Okay, so meanwhile, he's lost
votes on the left, so this isnot a winner.
Carmen Lezeth (23:59):
He's got it back.
Are you kidding me?
Yes, bo, first of all, you justsaid we have like three years
before we have to start, orwhatever.
Two years before we have tostart.
I do think he's thinking aboutthe presidency.
I'm not crazy about that, thatwe're on the same page.
Andrea (24:16):
You've been thinking about the presidency for 10
years.
Carmen Lezeth (24:19):
And yet he would have always.
And he see, this is where youand I have fights, this is where
you and I fight.
And yet, when asked when JoeBiden got out of the race and
people were clamoring for him torun, he did the right thing and
said I'm not running, I amvoting for Kamala Harris, and
that's where I will give himintegrity.
(24:41):
I'm sorry, he's a party man.
He is a party man, but he'salso a good man, which I know
you and I have.
I can see your face.
Andrea (24:51):
Beg to differ.
Carmen Lezeth (24:54):
Okay, who would be a good politician to you?
Who's a good man, a good woman.
Andrea (24:59):
Okay.
Well, let me start by saying Idon't know if I believe that
there are any good politicians.
Carmen Lezeth (25:05):
Okay, yeah, all right.
Well, I can't help.
And you asked me to run foroffice.
Remember, we had this real.
You see what I'm saying?
Like that's not fair, I think.
I think there are good peoplewho want to do the right thing.
Andrea (25:18):
No, there are.
I mean, yes, I was beingfacetious, but you know, I think
it's really hard to be a goodperson and a politician.
Carmen Lezeth (25:28):
At the same time, I do believe that I think
that's a very difficult line towalk.
I don't believe that's true.
Andrea (25:44):
I don't believe that's true.
You're pessimistic.
I'm optimistic on this, yeah,and I also.
As you know, I don't idolize orlike hero, and I'm not saying
you do, but I know some peopledo you know hero?
Worship any of these people atall?
I love gavin newsom you knowwhat I mean.
Like people wait, I mean, well,that's what's happening with
trump.
(26:04):
Yeah, I know, right, peoplemake it their whole personality
and it's like you know what Imean.
Like I don't feel that wayabout anybody.
Even obama, right, like waslike this is just a man.
He's not going to be able to doall of the things you think you
want him to do.
You know, let's all calm down.
So, you know, is there someoneright now I can point to and be
(26:25):
like that's someone I would wantto run?
Honestly, no.
Carmen Lezeth (26:30):
Well, not about running, but I mean you said
there are not.
You can't be good, good personand a politician I think a
Jasmine Crockett, you know.
I think these are good peopletrying to do the right thing.
Will they get swept up in thebullshittery eventually?
Probably because it's thenature of politics.
That's not excusing it.
Andrea (26:49):
Yeah, no, I know I don't.
Like I said, I was being alittle bit facetious, like I
don't think they're not goodpeople.
I do think it's difficult,though, right, you need money.
That's the way that it is.
Carmen Lezeth (26:59):
We want to thank the Supreme Court for making
that even a more importantsituation.
Andrea (27:04):
And so that's, I believe, what makes it so hard
to be true to your values andall of those things is like, at
some point you you're eithergonna get a bunch of money you
have to be like, you know, thissuper charismatic, like aoc type
of person who can get donationsfrom literally all over the
(27:26):
world and build a war chest oryou've got to go out and seek it
from donors, in which caseyou're beholden to them, and you
know what I mean.
Carmen Lezeth (27:33):
It's just very challenging, right but isn't
that why we need to make surethat we vote?
Because what made it worse wasthe Supreme Court basically
saying that corporations arepeople and have the same right,
and so I mean, look, I agreewith you on that.
But that's not about GavinNewsom or AOC or Barack Obama.
That's about how we've allowedour institutions to be okay,
(27:58):
with money being the way inwhich we determine who our
candidates and governors andwhatever are.
Andrea (28:07):
Yeah, and I think it goes back to this idea of the
perfect candidate, right, likeyou know.
Yes, I believe you're right.
Like democrats are oftenlooking for checks every single
one of my boxes, and if this youknow box 73a isn't checked,
then you're out, right, likethat's a little ridiculous.
Carmen Lezeth (28:24):
And if you're a woman completely out you're not
even talking about that anymore.
Andrea (28:32):
Sorry, um, you know what I mean, but like that's, I
think, a more difficult thing todo.
Because of the money, right,because of the need for the
money, right, and if you don'thave the money, you can't get in
front of people, you don't havethe machine that it takes to,
(28:53):
you know, become a name andbecome known and get your
message out there and all ofthose kinds of things.
It's just, yeah, it's a hotmess.
Carmen Lezeth (28:59):
We are on the same page on that, I think.
For me I will.
I always believe in the best,in people.
I know this drives you up awall, like I still have faith in
the American people, and eventhe ones I know, I know.
Andrea (29:18):
What did you just say?
I said are you kidding me?
Carmen Lezeth (29:21):
I do, I have to.
Well, what's the point then?
Why not just move to anothercountry right now?
Why not just go?
Andrea (29:29):
I mean, yeah, I would, if I could.
You know what's so funny.
Carmen Lezeth (29:34):
I know you would, that just killed me.
I just look.
Andrea (29:40):
I will say, like I generally believe that most
people are good, I do, I reallydo, Unless they're Republican.
Unless they're Republican.
Most people aren't Republican.
Carmen Lezeth (29:57):
I know Most people think they're Republican,
but they're not the more youknow, right the more you know,
and then we'll get into all that.
Right.
Andrea (30:08):
Yeah, there's possibly multiple generations of you know
what?
Is it deprogramming that needsto be done in this country in
order for us to, in order for meto believe that you know the
American people want what's best?
(30:29):
I don't know.
Carmen Lezeth (30:30):
I didn't say that , right, I just wanted to say
that I know I said I have faithin the American people.
I because I don't know how elseto function, especially as a
black, latina woman, except tothink hope that there are more
people who understand andbelieve what we believe
(30:53):
fundamentally than not Do.
I think we lack a lot ofeducation in this country, for
sure, for sure, especially whenit comes to politics, and I
think if there's anything thathas been revealed during this
time of Trumpism, it's that Isthat so many people do not know
what they're talking about, aregetting misinformation from
(31:13):
people who are pretending toknow what they're talking about
because they're making money offof them, and maybe this is
where we live.
Andrea (31:21):
I don't know, maybe this is the vast right-wing
conspiracy to throw us back.
This is the multi-decade.
You know, I harangue about thisall the time and my kids are
like oh my god, shut up.
This is the multi-decadeRepublican project to gut public
(31:42):
education.
We are reaping the rewards, ifyou will, of that project, which
has been extraordinarilysuccessful.
Extraordinarily successful,honestly likeordinarily
successful.
Carmen Lezeth (31:55):
You know honestly like you said credit to the
Heritage Foundation.
Right, let's give a shout outto the Heritage Foundation who
did Project 25 or whatever it is.
Andrea (32:04):
Yes, and have been working on gutting Newt Gingrich
and Mitch McConnell.
Yes, you know, like you did it.
Carmen Lezeth (32:12):
Destroying our country.
Andrea (32:13):
Thank you, we appreciate you.
Carmen Lezeth (32:14):
Thank you, we appreciate you.
Thank you, and Clarence ThomasShout out to you boo Scalia,
scalia, woo, yeah, see at theend of the day we really do
believe kind of the same thing,like it's so funny, like we have
this kind of inter I don't knowarguments back and forth, but
(32:34):
when it comes right down to itwe actually do.
And this is the thing that Iknow is going to kill you a
little bit.
I actually believe most peoplein the United States are more to
the middle than not.
It's kind of that idea thatmost people think they're
Republican and they're not.
Andrea (32:48):
I believe that too.
I 100% believe that, like Isaid, the vast majority of
people in this country are notRepublican, they're not and they
don't believe what thestatedment of the Republican
party Like you know what I mean.
Carmen Lezeth (33:15):
Like just stay out but somehow.
Andrea (33:17):
But we'll have to get back to that because that's
right, I'm from the governmentand I'm here to help.
Those are the scariest words inthe English language You're so
funny.
Carmen Lezeth (33:28):
This is going to be fun.
This is going to be fun.
Thank you for doing it Allright.
Well, I appreciate you beinghere, and that was not what I
thought we were going to talkabout, but it was kind of sorta
this is what we do.
Andrea (33:41):
This is like a phone call that we have.
Carmen Lezeth (33:43):
I know I thought it would be harder, but I think
it's going to work.
So, yeah, hey everyone.
We'll be back next week on AllAbout the Joy Culture and
Consequences with Carmen andAndrea, and until then, remember
it really is all about the joy.
Bye, everyone, bye.
Thanks for stopping by.
(34:06):
All About the Joy.
Be better and stay beautifulfolks.
Have a sweet day.
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