Carmen Talk: Grace or Exile - A Cultural Reckoning and the Cost of Cutting People Off

Have we reached a breaking point with cancel culture? When did our default response to mistakes become permanent exile rather than creating space for growth? These are the questions at the heart of today's deeply personal exploration.

The Joey Swoll controversy serves as our starting point – a fitness influencer whose casual use of an offensive racial term sparked immediate backlash. While his apology seemed sincere, the momentum of internet outrage had already taken hold, eventually driving him from social media entirely. This pattern repeats itself daily across our digital landscape, raising crucial questions about what we're really trying to achieve when we "cancel" individuals.

This isn't about defending harmful behavior or giving free passes. It's about examining the difference between holding people accountable and cutting them off completely. When former Trump supporters begin expressing regret, when people acknowledge they've been misled, do we slam the door shut or create pathways toward understanding? The answer shapes not just individual relationships but our collective future.

There's a stark contrast between this individual accountability and the necessary consequences for corporate performative allyship. Target's journey from racial justice champion after George Floyd's murder to quietly dismantling those same DEI initiatives demonstrates why some cancellations are justified responses to cynical opportunism. Not all accountability should look the same.

Forgiveness isn't weakness – it's choosing discernment over erasure, boundaries over exile. It says, "I see the damage, and now I'm watching what you do next." Most of us have received grace at some point in our lives, not excusing our mistakes but keeping us in community long enough to learn something new. Extending that same opportunity to others might be the most radical act in our divided times. The question isn't whether to forgive, but how to forgive in ways that promote genuine transformation rather than easy absolution.

What kind of culture are we creating when our only response to "I'm sorry" is permanent rejection? Subscribe to join this ongoing conversation about finding the balance between accountability and healing in a world that desperately needs both.

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Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


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Episode Transcript

Carmen Lezeth (00:00):
Hey everyone, it's Carmen Lezeth and welcome
to All About the Joy.
This is Carmen Talk.
Let me say this up front we'regoing to stay divided as a

(00:22):
country if we don't startgetting honest about the cost of
cutting people off.
This isn't about defendingpublic figures or giving passes
to problematic behavior.
It's about calling out thecultural impulse to cancel,
erase and exile people, withoutpausing to ask whether someone
might actually be trying to grow.

(00:44):
The latest example Joey Swoll.
Maybe you've seen him on yourFYP page.
He's a fitness guy, aself-appointed gym etiquette
enforcer.
He's an influencer and he'spopped up enough on my For you
page that I know who he is andI've always admired a lot of his

(01:06):
work.
He makes gyms safer, especiallyfor people who quote-unquote
shouldn't be in the gym.
He makes it clear that everyoneshould be there.
It's not really my jam, butI've always appreciated whenever
I was able to watch his videos.
And then this week he saidsomething.
He said a lot of things thatmade many people pause, me

(01:28):
included.
Joey used the word coloredInstead of saying people of
color.
He said the word colored whilediscussing why he liked or
admired Hulk Hogan, who hadrecently passed away.
Now, don't get me wrong, thereare a lot of problems with his
video, but let's just stick withthe word colored for a moment,

(01:48):
because for me it was the ease,right, that unbothered
familiarity.
It was that that made me pause,because when something rolls
out that easily out of yourmouth, that smoothly, it's not
something new, right, it's partof his everyday conversation,

(02:09):
it's something that's baked intohis vernacular.
So he apologized pretty quickly, publicly, in his own voice.
I thought he did a very goodapology.
And then he still got backlashfor that and other things.
And so the other day he saidhe's going to quit social media
altogether.
Now look, maybe that's thestart of some real reflection.

(02:33):
I have no idea.
Or maybe it's a tactic to, youknow, avoid deeper
accountability, who knows?
Here's the thing Joey is notthe point of this conversation,
he's just a mirror, because thispattern of messing up, calling
out and then exiling everyone iseverywhere, especially now as

(02:54):
I'm seeing former Trumpsupporters begin to speak out
saying I didn't know, I wasmisled, this isn't what I voted
for.
I see things differently now,right, and my first instinct,
honestly, is skepticism.
For sure, but if we believepeople are capable of change, we
have to do better than you'redead to me, right, and we're

(03:16):
never talking to you again, andthere's no way in hell we're
ever going to let you part ofthe culture or part of the
society, or part of the family.
I'm not asking you to forgetharm.
I'm asking whether we'rewilling to stay in the room long
enough to witness realtransformation, because the way

(03:39):
we respond to regret matters,the way we respond to apologies
matters.
If someone tells you they'resorry and your only response is
to block shame and dismiss them,what kind of future are we
building?
The truth is, most of us havedone something harmful, spoken
out of ignorance, reacted infear and we've been given grace

(04:04):
Okay, not always by the Internet, but by someone that grace has
shaped us.
And we've been given grace Okay, not always by the internet,
but by someone that grace hasshaped us.
It didn't excuse us, but it didkeep us in the community long
enough to learn something new.
And look, don't get it twisted.
Sometimes, cancel culture isnecessary.
I ain't even gonna lie about it.
Target is a perfect example.

(04:24):
Now, this is not a person.
This is a perfect example.
Now, this is not a person.
This is a corporation.
And after George Floyd's murderin 2020, right there in
Minneapolis, where Target isheadquartered.
They stepped forward, theypledged racial equity, they
rolled out DEI initiatives, theycelebrated Black employees and
spotlighted Black-ownedbusinesses.

(04:45):
For a moment, target became thecorporate face of we hear you
and people believed it.
I believed it.
But fast forward to 2025, andthe silence is louder than any
press release.
The DEI programs dismantled,the partnerships paused or
canceled.
The language now is all aboutchanging landscapes and

(05:05):
streamlining priorities.
The language now is all aboutchanging landscapes and
streamlining priorities.
Translation is basicallypolitical pressure shifted and
target folded to protect itsbottom line.
That's not accountability,that's opportunism.
They used the death, the murderof a Black man to build trust,
then abandoned that trust assoon as it became inconvenient.

(05:26):
They played both sides forprofit.
And that kind of betrayal, thatperformative allyship, is why I
will never step into a targetanymore and I'm happy to watch
them go through the pain ofpeople not going into their
stores, not because I'mboycotting them, but because

(05:47):
they deserve what's happening tothem right now.
And look, they're a corporation.
They'll be fine, they will.
But I am done being played.
I am done being played bycompanies and I am not spending
my money where people are beinginauthentic.
But when canceling becomes I'mgoing to go back to my original

(06:09):
soundbite here when cancelingbecomes our default, when it's
our go-to reaction for everymisstep, especially for
individual people, it robs us ofsomething deeper.
It robs us of healing.
Forgiveness isn't weakness.
Forgiveness isn't aboutpretending the harm didn't
happen.
Forgiveness is about choosingdiscernment over erasure,

(06:33):
boundaries over exile.
Forgiveness says I see thedamage and now I'm watching what
you do next.
And that's the bite.
I want us to sit with right, notjust when we forgive, but why
we forgive and what happens whenwe don't allow people to have a

(06:53):
moment where they made amistake.
If we want reconciliation, ifwe want a culture that makes
room for real growth, we can'tjust burn every bridge and call
it justice, every bridge andcall it justice.
So maybe the next time someonesays I'm sorry, maybe we listen,
maybe we evaluate, maybe weobserve and maybe just maybe, we

(07:20):
stay long enough in the room tosee who they are becoming.
The last thing I'll say is thisGrace is what shows up when
someone messes up and you choosecompassion over punishment.
It's the pause before judgment,the softness and strength, the
ability to hold boundarieswithout the cruelty.
Basically, it's thecounterweight to cancellation.

(07:40):
It's not about letting peopleoff the hook at all, but it is
about giving people the chanceto grow, change and be better
than we used to be.
Thanks for stopping by.
All About the Joy.
Be better and stay beautifulfolks, have a sweet day.