December 21, 2025 • 51 mins
What happens when you sit down with the person who helped shape who you became — the friend who turned into family long before either of you had the language for it? That’s the heart of this conversation with my “brother from another mother,” William. Before he was a legendary performer, a beloved teacher, a devoted dad, or a cofounder of a design studio, he was the kid who, like me, found refuge and direction on a color guard floor.
We start where our story begins: early competitions, long rehearsals, and the moment Sean O’Brien introduced real dance language — tendus, port de bras, breath — into a world that didn’t know it needed it. William breaks down how technique became a lifeline, how mentorship turned raw energy into artistry, and how the activity saved us in ways we’re still unpacking.
From there, we talk honestly about the paradox of the activity we loved: a creative home for working‑class kids that rarely connected to professional pipelines. The talent was always there; the question was whether the system ever made room for those kids to cross into careers in dance, theater, or design.
Teaching becomes the center of our conversation. William shares why guiding students past fear into confidence felt more electric than performing, and how that calling carried him into public education in Miami. We get into the realities — pay, burnout, inequity — and then follow his pivot into interior design, and Billy Blanco Designs - where composition, rhythm, and narrative translate seamlessly from stagecraft to space.
In our lightning round, he chooses Baryshnikov over Nureyev, Tokyo over Dubai, and admits that exercise is the vice that keeps him grounded. Fatherhood reframes everything: ambition becomes presence, and the goal becomes raising confident humans without turning them into content.
We also talk about aging without denial — not as a punchline, but as a clear‑eyed look at time, purpose, and what still matters. The antidote, as we both agree, is curiosity. Keep learning and the world stays wide.
If you care about creativity, mentorship, reinvention, or simply want to understand a little more about the people who shaped me, this conversation will meet you where you are and maybe open a door or two.
Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share. You can also support us by shopping at our STORE - We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.
Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth
DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carmen Lezeth (00:14):
Hi everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
I'm Carmen Lisa, your host, andin the house is my brother from
another mother, which you'veall heard me talk about.
Billy.
Wait, why did you writeWilliam?
Are we going by William too?
Billy Jurberg (00:28):
My name is William.
I know it's Billy.
It's Billy.
Everyone calls me Billy.
I like to be known as Williamwhen it's a more formal setting.
And I'm finding this a littleformal already because you're
interviewing me, so or you'regoing to ask me a fuck a few
(00:48):
questions of you know, of mythoughts on different things.
Anyways.
Carmen Lezeth (00:53):
I I know, but I but it okay.
I thank you.
I'm gonna take that as acompliment.
I'm just gonna kind of I know,thank you.
So, okay, first I want to tellpeople how we know each other
because not everyone knows, butI I was trying to think about
this.
I remember you when I was like12 years old.
I remember first watching youperform.
(01:14):
That's I remember being thatyoung and um seeing you perform
and being like, oh my god, he'sso amazing.
Um, but do you remember when wefirst met?
I don't know if I remember whenwe first met.
Billy Jurberg (01:27):
I don't remember.
I know, I don't know if I knowexactly when we first met.
I want to say you were in SAC,if I remember.
Carmen Lezeth (01:37):
Oh, that was much later then.
That was much later.
Billy Jurberg (01:40):
Oh, really?
So that did I meet you when youwere in West Roxbury?
Carmen Lezeth (01:44):
I yeah, so no, no.
So I okay, so this is where Iremember.
First of all, I watched you,right?
You were a big time performer.
Billy Jurberg (01:51):
Everybody knew who you were, you were the star
of because there were many,let's be clear, there weren't
many guys.
Carmen Lezeth (01:57):
There were not many men at all in the activity
at all, or or black folk at all.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
But I remember um after my mompassed away, um, I was made
captain of the drill team inWest Oxbury, and then um Jerry
Glover brought me to individualsto the competition,
(02:21):
individuals, and I was like 12,maybe 13 years old, and there
was like a hundred peoplecompeting.
And and and didn't you win thatone?
Oh, you said Wanda won thatone, but I think you won that
one.
Billy Jurberg (02:33):
I no, I don't think I I never won.
Let's start with I never won.
Maybe you won in my heart,okay?
Maybe in your heart, and I'msure it came in probably good
second, because even when I wassupposed, because remember, I
had when I first went up, I Iwhen I first went into
individuals, Jay Puccini was inindividuals.
(02:55):
And and let's not forget whoJay Puccini was, right?
Because he was kind of like thereal deal.
He was great at what he did, hewas a guy, and he and he was
straight on top of it, but whichmatters, which was like, oh my,
oh my god, like a straight flagrifle twirler, like that's kind
(03:18):
of hard to believe, but therewere a few.
Um, so anyway, so I he was sortof in it, and then the year he
he didn't go in or he was tooold, he aged out, or whatever,
and it was supposed to be kindof my year.
I lost to Wanda.
No, Wanda was the flag, so itwasn't flag, it was a rifle.
(03:39):
And I lost to some girl, and itwasn't his girlfriend, but I
want to say he taught her, likewhatever.
Anyways, I shouldn't have lost,but I did.
Carmen Lezeth (03:51):
Okay, well, anyway, you uh all I remember is
that you won.
That's all I remember.
So because I was enamored byhow brilliant of a performer you
were, like, and I think youwere too, by the way.
Well, here's the thing (04:04):
I we there was like a hundred people
who competed.
I was like 13 years old, it wasmy first time, and I remember I
came in 12th, which was likeridiculously amazing for me, you
know what I mean?
And I was so excited.
Of course, I thought I wasgonna win.
And when I look back on it, I'mlike, I was so delusional, but
(04:26):
I did really great for you know,whatever.
But I think that was the firsttime I remember being like at
least close to you in that likeI was competing with you.
Now, we never worked togetherin that we were in the same kind
of performing thing.
You taught me, you ended upteaching me.
Billy Jurberg (04:47):
Um, that of course, and that was that was
right.
Carmen Lezeth (04:50):
Did you did you all get that?
Of course, we would never work.
Billy Jurberg (04:54):
Well, of course, no, I meant it more like of
course, that's where ourconnection became the strongest,
right?
Carmen Lezeth (05:01):
Right.
Billy Jurberg (05:02):
That's where we really formed a connection,
right?
Like that's when I really gotto know who you were, more about
you.
Carmen Lezeth (05:10):
Um, you know, and you were the reason why I went
to Lancers.
I mean, you were that was thereason why I wanted to do drum
core, was because you were gonnateach me.
Billy Jurberg (05:19):
So and I and I loved it.
Uh well, I loved it so muchbecause remember, that that year
in Lancers specifically um wasmy first year with Sean.
I worked with Sean O'Brien.
Yeah, it was amazing.
And what was great about Seanwas that he had this whole dance
background, right?
(05:40):
And he was from the activity aswell because he did do drum and
bugle core, but he was theperson that kind of brought in
the dance to to this activity ina way that no one had really
done.
Yeah, that we had on our in ourworld, no one had really done
what he was willing to do.
(06:02):
And what I also, because I wasteaching with him, uh, and
because I was the activitiessort of like kingpin, right?
Like I was the the young newperson in the activity, right?
That they were like, oh, thisis the guy that needs to, you
know, who's gonna take us to thenext level.
I gave him the grace to dowhatever he wanted.
(06:23):
He was amazing, and he was theone that brought in all those
amazing warm-ups, and he was theone that taught me like how to
do tondues and how to doportebra and how to do you know,
real dance.
And I was so enamored withthat, but he was the one.
I I give it to that man who'sno longer with us.
(06:44):
He was the one that was able totake me into a totally
different direction with theactivity.
So I wasn't just like twirlingmy flag, but I was like, oh,
look at this expressive stuffthat I can do with this flag
that made it more exciting andmore beautiful.
(07:04):
And what was so amazing aboutyou specifically was that you
were able to interpret it in away that most people did not
get.
Carmen Lezeth (07:15):
Yeah, but that would be in trouble.
That would always get because II had us not with us.
Billy Jurberg (07:20):
No, no, no, absolutely not.
Look at Miss Carmen with thosewings flying through.
Look at how she did it.
Carmen Lezeth (07:27):
I know, but Sean and you also really helped me
technically, because as much asI was a great dancer, and I was
because I had that background asa young kid just in the
neighborhood and all the otherthings I was doing, which it's
so weird because when I thinkabout ColorGuard and Jumcor,
people that's everybody, that'sall anybody did.
(07:48):
Like we that that was yourpassion, you know what I mean?
But I think what was great wasthat I really was horrible at
the technical aspects ofdancing, and Sean and you kind
of hone that in.
So I was great at being like,voila, you know what I mean?
But it like I remember one timeSean was like, so we need to
tone that down, you know, weneed to bring that in.
(08:11):
No, no, and every time I seethe birdcage, I don't know if
you know that movie with NathanLane.
And and you know when RobinWilliams goes up on the stage
and he's like, I want you tohave Madonna, Madonna, Martha
Graham, Martha Graham.
Do you remember that part?
And then he's like, but I wantyou to keep it all inside.
I think of Sean teaching me,like that's what I think of.
(08:32):
Like, I do.
I love that thing.
So yeah, but yeah, he wasgreat.
Billy Jurberg (08:37):
He really, he really too.
Carmen Lezeth (08:39):
You give him way more credit.
You were amazing and great, andyou brought a lot to the
activity.
Is that what we're calling itnow?
The activity?
Billy Jurberg (08:48):
I've always called it the activity.
Carmen Lezeth (08:51):
It's selling a mafia thing.
Billy Jurberg (08:53):
You know what I realized the other day?
I was trying to put into timingum how long I was in it and how
long I went out of it.
And I realized that I my firstyear into it was 1980.
It was my first.
So I really started probablyprobably around 1979.
But 1980 was my first year Icompeted.
(09:16):
And um the last year I competedwas 2001.
Um, 2001 was my last WGI I didwith the high school that I
taught.
Right.
Um, and that was I had alreadymet um, who was my you know, my
my just delete that part, but goahead.
(09:37):
Yeah, yeah.
But so I had just met him, sothat's when I got out.
And so I just realized thatI've now surpassed the time that
I was in it.
So I was in it for roughly 21years or something, and now I've
been out of it for over 25years, right?
Like, so my time my life hascompletely changed.
(09:58):
And I was just thinking thatbecause I had seen something on
Instagram, you know, there's alot of of the uh activity on
Instagram, you know, and it'squite it's it's you know so
much.
It's and it's so big, it's it'sso many thousands of kids that
are participating in it.
Yeah, but I you know what?
Carmen Lezeth (10:17):
Look, it I'm I'm always gonna be a little bit
negative on it because I feellike I mean, I hope it's
changed.
I hope it's changed.
I hope that now it's an avenuefor real performers to move
forward into another aspect ofperforming.
Not once, not once while I wasin this activity, did anyone
even consider the possibilitythat there might be something
(10:37):
afterwards?
You know what I mean?
And and I think that did adisservice to a lot of the real
talent that and the reallypassionate people.
Um, for me, it was a survivalmechanism.
There's no doubt about it.
But I was also really good atit, you know.
And I just imagine if I had hadsome type of support system in
a different way, maybe I wouldhave moved out to California
(11:00):
quicker, or you know what Imean?
Like, or something.
But I mean, I'm not blaming,I'm just hoping that the
activity has changed and it'sactually that I mean, even just
jump chord, the amount of talentmusic-wise, like I think of all
of those amazing people,musicians.
And I think to myself, I I hopemost of them had opportunities
(11:21):
to keep, you know what I mean?
Does that make sense?
Billy Jurberg (11:23):
But to move forward.
Yeah, it's it's it uhabsolutely.
I mean, I watched um some ofDCI this year.
I I got the the uh sport of thearts uh page or whatever, uh,
and I I I I I did my you knowpaid to to to be able to watch
some of it, and I had the kidswatch some of the top groups,
(11:44):
right?
You know, the blue devils whoare still around, you know what
I mean, and um some others.
The talent is absolutelyundeniable, the passion is
undeniable, and and that to meis you're absolutely right.
I also for as much as how yousaid, like, you know, being kind
(12:08):
of negative on it or whatever,I also um want to say that I
feel like it's it's also whatgot me out of the mosh pit of
nothingness.
Yep, I understand brought meinto a place where it opened up
(12:30):
my world a little bit.
And even though it was thissmall world of flag trolling or
whatever, I felt like I saw moreof the world.
Carmen Lezeth (12:42):
Well, we did, we traveled a lot, yeah.
Billy Jurberg (12:43):
Yeah, but just more, it it just opened me up to
different people, differentexperiences, different things,
and and and also it took thatfire that's in your belly, like
I'm gonna be good at this, and Iand I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna
conquer this, and I'm gonna, youknow, and and for for the
(13:06):
people that it serves, which bythe way, it serves really the
blue collar, if you will.
If I don't know if there'sstill a blue collar in our
country anymore, but thereisn't.
Right?
The lower, let's just say thelower socioeconomic at least
when we were growing up.
Carmen Lezeth (13:25):
I mean, that's the same.
Billy Jurberg (13:27):
And I think it's still I think it's still part of
that.
Yeah, because let's face it,the band kids are not
necessarily the orchestra, youknow, talented people who are
playing, you know, piano andviolin, and you know what I
mean, and they're going toballet classes necessarily,
right?
(13:47):
And and gymnastics and stufflike this.
This is the people that don'thave that opportunity and just
kind of want to be, and ofcourse, there's also, you know,
it also because it's band andstuff like that, and uh in in
high schools, it grabs a lot ofI think children from a lot of
different backgrounds, but thebasic of it is is more, you
(14:12):
know, the the the the the lowersocio economic that's what I
feel.
Um, for sure.
There's no doubt that was thatwas our thing, right?
Carmen Lezeth (14:20):
That was how we grew up.
That's yeah, and it wasn't.
I always say this, it was asaving grace.
I mean, there is no doubt thatkept me out of gangs, it kept me
out of living on the streetsall the time.
Uh well, and you know how Ifeel about the drug death.
Billy Jurberg (14:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (14:37):
Because there were drugs where I grew up, and
then I would go to rehearsal andI would and there would be
drugs everywhere.
But I you know I have my issuewith that.
Billy Jurberg (14:46):
But yeah, I try not to judge, but it's no, but
that's that was also specific,by the way, I think in many ways
to your group.
Yeah, blessed.
Carmen Lezeth (14:55):
So we don't have to talk about that, but I just
think for me, it was also justkind of a realization that the
world wasn't as like I alwaysthought my neighborhood was bad
and the world was good.
And then I realized becausethat the world had some of that
too.
Billy Jurberg (15:11):
That the world had it was all inner city, girl.
You were it was all inner city,you went from one inner city to
the other.
Carmen Lezeth (15:18):
I know, but I I lived in Boston and in in in JP.
And so there was this kind ofyou know, it was all Latino,
black, Irish, all poor folk, butlike whatever.
You went to Cambridge, right?
No, no, and then I'd go to WestOxford.
It was all white, everybody wasall white, it was very church
going, you know, whatever.
But blessed sex was what,Cambridge, no?
Yeah, that was Cambridge, thatwas later on.
(15:39):
Um, and then that was like theshock of my life.
Anyways, we'll talk about thegood stuff, but okay, so back to
you, because this isn't reallysupposed to be all about the
what did you call it?
The practice?
The activity?
Billy Jurberg (15:53):
I swear to god, I've known you forever and I've
never heard you call it.
We've always called it theactivity, we all call it the
activity.
Carmen Lezeth (16:00):
It sounds so fucking hilarious.
Okay, that's how we met.
And here was my question that Iwas thinking about last night.
I was like, did you like okay?
I just want to say for people,you were when I say you're an
extraordinary performer, I'm notexaggerating.
I don't say that about anybody,anybody.
You were an incredibleperformer, and you know that.
(16:20):
You know that, as well as Iknow that I'm right about this,
but you were also anextraordinary teacher, and I was
wondering which one you lovedmore.
Billy Jurberg (16:32):
Oh, that's that's interesting.
Carmen Lezeth (16:33):
I no teaching really, yeah, because you were
an incredible teacher.
Billy Jurberg (16:38):
Yeah, no, and and and when when it when I went
on, there was there were someexperiences that I had in
teaching with certain groupsthrough the years that were for
sure magical.
Yeah, and and it was magical inpart because it was a
combination of the talent, thecommitment, the product, what
(17:05):
you were actually teaching.
So the whole thing cametogether to be something really
magical.
And by the way, that teachingwas what provoked me to become a
teacher, right?
Because I I went to I went touniversity very late in life,
because I started universitywhen I was basically 29, I
(17:26):
guess.
I was 29 years old when I wentto university.
Carmen Lezeth (17:29):
So never late.
Billy Jurberg (17:30):
You were right on to never too late.
That teaching brought me intoactual education, right?
So I ended up going to uhuniversity and getting a degree
in elementary education, and Itaught for six years in the
public, in the public schoolsystem, which here in Miami,
which by the way, I went fromteaching in um Liberty City,
(17:55):
which is pretty much the ghetto,to because that's they always
put you, they always put you inat you know where you're most
needed, might be the whereyou're most where you're most
needed and where you're have nouh least effective because you
have no experience and you'rejust you know they're ready for
(18:16):
you to eat you.
Right.
Um, and I went from there toteaching in one of the better
school districts, actually, inthe in the in the city as well.
So um, so I had bothexperiences, and both
experiences were very, very uhpositive.
And I really enjoyed the wholeteaching experience, and I
thought it was really amazing.
(18:37):
And the only reason I leftteaching was um, well, the only
reason there was a couplereasons, you know.
One of them was financial,right?
Carmen Lezeth (18:47):
Because yeah, we don't pay our teachers enough.
Billy Jurberg (18:49):
We just not enough, anything, yeah, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (18:53):
Anything.
I mean, that's why Andrea lefttoo.
And and I think about the twopeople I would want teaching my
children would be you andAndrea, you know, like just
brilliant human beings, but itit's it's always people who are
like I can make more moneysomewhere else, and what's all
the drama like with this life,you know?
Billy Jurberg (19:10):
Yeah, and so then that's what provoked me.
It was that, and then uh I I Ialso had the impression that I
would probably at some pointhave children of my own, and
which I do, but but but becauseof that, I said, Well, you know,
teaching and child, it's a lot,and and I all I really wanted
(19:31):
to pursue my passion of interiordesign, right?
Carmen Lezeth (19:35):
So you are incredible with Billy Blanco
designs.
I mean, it's just yeah.
Billy Jurberg (19:41):
Thank thank you.
Carmen Lezeth (19:42):
That's I just went to your website again
yesterday, and I was like, thetree house.
I mean, the way in which youguys designed, I mean, that's
part of my question, too, iswell, sorry, I didn't mean to
cut you off, but you know, no,no, no, that's fine.
Billy Jurberg (19:55):
I was just saying how you know one thing led to
the other, but I went back toSchool for a degree in interior
design, which is where you knowI met my you know my current
partner and my business partnerDavid, who is, you know, we love
David.
Carmen Lezeth (20:10):
Hi David.
Billy Jurberg (20:12):
Who's super, you know, super brilliant at um at
it.
And um so anyway, so yeah, sosay that again.
Carmen Lezeth (20:22):
And so are you anyway?
The compliment is so hard.
Billy Jurberg (20:28):
So now I so now uh to your point, to your
question, I I think teaching wasmore um rewarding for me.
Carmen Lezeth (20:39):
Can I tell you why I think you were a great
teacher?
Billy Jurberg (20:42):
Why?
Carmen Lezeth (20:43):
Because most people who teach seem to be
angry about the fact thatthey're not actually doing the
thing that they're teaching.
Billy Jurberg (20:51):
Oh, that's interesting.
Carmen Lezeth (20:52):
You know what I mean?
Like you were like, No, I havea gift, let me share it, kind of
thing.
Whereas a lot of people who Iwas coached by, taught by,
whatever, there was aresentment, and that's even in
acting.
Like, just you can see peoplewho are like, I couldn't make it
as an actor, so now I'm ateacher.
And it's like you stay awayfrom those people, you know what
I mean?
But interesting.
I think that was always a greatgift.
(21:13):
You really marveled at watchingpeople not only excel, but do
what they were taught correctly,and then that's interesting,
yeah, for sure.
Yeah, and then when they fuckedit up, like I did a lot.
Um, you didn't get angry, youwere great at being like, let me
help you tweak this to do itright.
So you also met me where I wasat.
(21:35):
I assume you did that witheveryone.
You know, you were notcondescending, you were not
cruel.
Um, and you understood that Iwas who I was and somebody else
was who they were, and you hadto teach me differently than you
taught them.
And that's what I alwaysadmired about you.
I know.
Are you blushing?
I am a little bit in my in mywhite.
You didn't know that?
(21:56):
You didn't know that.
Billy Jurberg (21:57):
No, I don't, I it's it's interesting that you
would say it that way because umit's not how necessarily how I
looked at it.
I looked, I looked at it likeum, you know, I was there in
part to um to make the kidsbetter, right?
Like it was like for them toimprove.
(22:19):
And a big and and uh a big partwas obviously the creative
aspect of it, making somethingthat was creative and doing
something creative and do andand doing something beautiful,
but then bringing the kids tothe potential of that was always
amazing, and then getting themto have confidence, yes, like
(22:43):
people that you would say werelike when they walked into their
first rehearsal were like likethis, you know what I mean?
Carmen Lezeth (22:52):
Like I just want to be clear, I never had that
problem.
Billy Jurberg (22:58):
I'm sorry, you're right.
I would agree, I would agreewith that.
I never had that problem.
But there's plenty of people.
Carmen Lezeth (23:05):
No, of course, you're right, you're right,
you're right, right?
Billy Jurberg (23:08):
And then and then I mean, they might not come out
and be some, you know,whatever, but I but I certainly
saw people come out of theirshells and become so much more
than they ever thought that theywere, right?
And and and that's somethingthat a lot of those people took
(23:28):
with them for life, right?
Carmen Lezeth (23:30):
And into the world.
It's beautiful, right?
That you did that for people.
Billy Jurberg (23:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (23:36):
Why are we friends?
Why are we friends cool?
I mean, I I I know why I loveyou, but I I was thinking You
want me you want to know why Ilove you?
Billy Jurberg (23:48):
Well, I know why you love me.
Well, okay, yeah, let's showthat no, I think I think we I
think we share a history and weshare ideology.
We do lack of we have a lot ofvery similar um beliefs in in
our system of life, and uh ifyou want to say our moral sort
(24:14):
of, and I don't like to saymoral so much because it makes
you sound like, but you know,how we feel about um humanity,
how we feel about society, howwe feel so I think those things
are really connect us, um, sothat we have like that strong
sort of bond.
Um, I think we're both also inour own ways self-made.
Carmen Lezeth (24:38):
Yes.
Oh, that's a good one.
Yeah.
Billy Jurberg (24:41):
I didn't think right.
We we both have sort ofself-made ourselves.
We we brought ourselves fromyou know, from sort of
nothingness into right, intoputting us through school and
and always exploring.
And and our histories, our ourour our our backstories, um I
(25:06):
think have helped to connect us.
And I I don't know about you,but for me, I'm the type of
person that I need I like or Iwant or I desire.
I need some of my past broughtinto my future for me to know
(25:28):
that there's sort of thatcontinuity.
And if it if right, and so ifthere's any way of saying it,
like you said it, it's likebrother from another mother.
You have some sort of a familytie connection, and and that's
how I feel, you know, and soit's so for me, it's more it's
(25:50):
like you're part of my chosenfamily.
Oh, I love it so anyway.
Carmen Lezeth (25:55):
I think I I think for me too, it's more about, I
mean, all of that, of course.
But you know, I don't stay intouch with a lot of people from
back in the day.
I agree with you, and that'spart of what our connection is,
is that history.
And I okay, so I'm gonna saysomething to embarrass you even
more, I think.
Anyways, I don't know, I know.
I love people who teach mesomething and make me a better
(26:19):
person, and you've always beenthat.
Now, there's no doubt when Iwas a young kid, I was just, you
know, you and Susan Kerwin.
Do you remember Susan Kerwin?
I don't know if you remember.
Yeah, I don't know if you knewher, but you two were these
amazing performers that Iaspired to be like.
You know what I mean?
And I think that continues tothis day.
Like, yes, I know we are, youknow, we're on equal footing, we
(26:42):
laugh, we talk regularly, wewhatever, right?
We visit with each other,whatever.
But I think what I still loveabout you is that you still
teach me something.
Like you did it the other daywhen we were talking about
politics.
And I was like, I didn't thinkabout it that way.
You know what I mean?
And I think that's what kind offor me is also a really
important connection to people.
We've also never had a fight.
(27:03):
And I fight with everybody.
Have we had a fight?
I don't think we've ever had afight.
Billy Jurberg (27:08):
I don't I'm I well for me, no, I don't think
we have, but uh for me, I'm notreally um I don't I don't I
don't I don't like to becombative only with my partner,
David.
Okay, and even I'm a little bitand my and my kids a little
bit, I'm a little combative withthem.
Carmen Lezeth (27:27):
Yeah, no, no, but I'm just saying when I think
about all my friendships, theones that are close to me,
whatever, and I think about andI'm like, I don't think I've
ever had like I've never beenmad at you, I've never been
angry, I've never, I don't knowwhat that's about.
That's really interesting.
We'll have to work on the otherpart.
Billy Jurberg (27:44):
Maybe we need to let's get in a fight.
You want to have a fight?
Carmen Lezeth (27:48):
No, no, but you you know what it is?
Because I think that well, Imean, look at all relationships
are very different, but I thinkthere's also I I have such a
different type of respect foryou.
And it does that you willalways be someone.
I know you're gonna hate this,but you're always someone I look
up to.
And I know you probably don'trealize that, but I I do.
So I would never fight withyou.
(28:09):
All my other motherfuckingfriends, I fight with you
because we equal.
Billy Jurberg (28:14):
That's so funny.
That is that is kind offrightening.
Carmen Lezeth (28:17):
I don't know why we've never fight, uh, never
fought, but um, you know, okay.
I have a little fast round, alittle fast round.
Billy Jurberg (28:25):
Okay, fast round questions.
Carmen Lezeth (28:27):
Um, and you can either expand on it or not.
Okay.
Billy Jurberg (28:31):
Okay.
Carmen Lezeth (28:32):
All right, you doing good so far with these
questions?
I'm doing great.
Okay.
Did I embarrass you?
Billy Jurberg (28:37):
No, not at all.
Carmen Lezeth (28:39):
Okay.
All right.
Um, Berishnikov or Nuryev.
Mikhail Berishnikov or RudolfNuryev.
I know that's a hard one.
Billy Jurberg (28:51):
So I'm gonna say, okay, I'm gonna say
Berishnikov, and I'm gonna say acouple things.
I've seen both of them.
Me too.
On stage, yeah, live, live, um,but only Nuriev playing the
king in The King and I.
Carmen Lezeth (29:10):
Oh, okay.
Billy Jurberg (29:12):
On stage in Boston at one point, you know,
because he's I don't know.
Carmen Lezeth (29:16):
That's where I saw him in Boston too.
Oh, you did?
When did he saw him in DonQuixote?
I saw him in Don Quixote.
I was really young.
Wow, I was real young becausedid he pass away in the 90s?
Yeah, no, he did, but I saw himlike I was really young.
We had gotten three tickets orsomething, yeah.
And I was like this.
Yeah, it was yeah.
Billy Jurberg (29:36):
So I never really got to see him dance, so that's
why I'm I'm leaning moretowards Barishnikov, who I did
who I did see dance a lot.
He's more of our contemporary,yes, or my contemporary, anyway.
So that's why I'm gonna sayhim, right?
I mean, I even liked him in sexand the contemporary, he's
older than you, okay.
Carmen Lezeth (29:55):
Not that much.
All right, well, anyways, wedon't need to we'll delete that
too.
I don't know if he's I thinkhe's older than you, but but
he's yeah, no, I'm sure he is,but not by a lot.
Okay, but he I know, but youlook so good, okay.
But here's the thing (30:09):
I mean, Mikhail Barishnikov is kind of,
I don't want to say protege touh Rudolf Noryev, but he, you
know, I loved him.
Billy Jurberg (30:19):
He yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
Carmen Lezeth (30:21):
So I mean it was kind of a trick question, but
there is no real answer.
Uh yeah, but you would pickBerishnikov just because he's
more our time.
Billy Jurberg (30:30):
Yeah, more of a contemporary.
That's what I would say.
I've seen more of him.
I've seen him, I've seen himlive.
Carmen Lezeth (30:36):
Did you see him in the nutcracker?
Billy Jurberg (30:38):
What did you see?
No, I saw him here in in Miamiwhen he did um his, he it was
towards the end of his dancing,um, if you will.
Um, and he did uh he was it wasa very small intimate theater,
and he did a live performance ofhis more contemporary sort of
dance.
Carmen Lezeth (30:58):
Right.
Billy Jurberg (30:58):
It was a more contemporary piece, it wasn't
classical at all.
Um, and so um, but I I and youknow, like I said, I even liked
him in Sex in the City.
I I just I did, I did.
He was great.
Um, I just think he, you know,I think he he really um has had
has done a lot for dance and formen particularly.
Carmen Lezeth (31:22):
Men, yeah, particularly too.
Just kind of uh that the thehe's just I remember when he did
the movie with Gregory Hines, Iforget the name of it.
Remember they uh it was the twoof them and they were like
spies, and one was defecting.
Okay, you don't know what I'mtalking about.
No, I don't him and GregoryHines, they do this whole tap
(31:42):
dancing scene together, and Iwas like, God, is there anything
this man can't do?
I'll try to do the clip tothat.
I forget the movie, but it's sogood.
I think you know it, you justdon't remember it.
Billy Jurberg (31:53):
I think that that could be that could be
possible.
Carmen Lezeth (31:56):
Because if you know I'm just in the city, you
must have seen them in thatmovie.
Okay, what's your one vice thatyou can share on a public
forum?
Billy Jurberg (32:09):
My one vice?
Yeah, champagne.
Carmen Lezeth (32:14):
I would not have guessed that.
Okay, do we normally do vooveor are we talking, are we going
up?
Billy Jurberg (32:21):
No, well, I I do something, and you know, I do
something more on the voove.
Carmen Lezeth (32:26):
Domperyon.
No girl, girl, like no girl.
Billy Jurberg (32:31):
All right, all right, I would say I um but if
you're saying like if you'resaying uh like a vice like that,
like that's something that Ienjoy.
I don't know.
Carmen Lezeth (32:40):
I love champagne, I just didn't know that.
Billy Jurberg (32:42):
Yeah, I don't know if that's if that if I
would call that a vice or whatmy enjoy what my other vice
would be.
Carmen Lezeth (32:50):
I thought you would say yoga.
That's what I thought you wouldsay.
Billy Jurberg (32:54):
Like well, it's interesting because I I could
say exercise, you know, becauseI you know I like to go to in by
exercise, I like I like to goto the gym, I like to do yoga, I
like to do um, you know, like aspinning class.
I'll even I even like to get onthe treadmill and just walk.
And so um I do uh likeexercise, and it's probably
(33:15):
honestly my real vice becauseexercise in general, in general,
because I do it as often as Ican, and there's times when I I
can't do it because you know thekids or schedule or whatever.
So whenever I can, I do.
Um, and at the same time, it'sone of those things that it's a
(33:38):
little bit of like, okay, Igotta drag into it, and then
once I'm there, I'm like, I'mI'm good to go, right?
Like I I put my all into it.
Carmen Lezeth (33:49):
It's kind of normal for everyone, right?
Billy Jurberg (33:51):
I mean, you gotta just get yourself out there,
but yeah, gotta kind of, youknow, like half the battle is
getting there.
Um, but I do, and uh it issomething that's more, but I
guess when when when you sayvice, um, you know, and I I I
maybe even when you're thinkingtoo deeply on this, right?
(34:11):
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, because I because I wouldsay even I would even say
cooking, you know, because Ilove to cook.
Oh, that's true.
You are quite the cook.
This is true.
You know, so I love to cook, soI don't know if that's a vice,
you know, or I so I don't knowhow I don't know how one d d
defines diet a vice.
Like, how do you define that?
Carmen Lezeth (34:32):
It was just a question, but now but see, we've
learned so much about youbecause you were able to go.
That's the whole point.
Billy Jurberg (34:38):
Oh, okay, all right.
But I want to know how youdefine vice.
Carmen Lezeth (34:42):
I think a vice for me would be like I I a vice
for me would be something Ican't not do.
Like if I don't do it, it painsme.
So like my vice would be Imight in a so then it's not
champagne, so then it's notchampagne.
Billy Jurberg (34:58):
No, if it's like I don't have you know what I
mean, like it's it's champagneis something that I enjoy to do.
It's like it's something, but Iwould say if it's something
that I can't that I have, itwould be exercise.
Exercise, for sure.
That I that I it would pain, itdoes pain me.
If I can't, if I can't do itfor like a week or two, I it's
like I'm right, I'm a little,I'm a little jonesing, like I
(35:22):
need to do something.
You know what I mean?
Carmen Lezeth (35:23):
Well, that's what I meant.
Like I I I think for me, that'swhat advice means, but I again
these are just to provoke peopleto get to know you and
understand why I love you somuch.
Okay, Tokyo or Dubai, because Iknow you've been to both,
right?
Billy Jurberg (35:35):
Tokyo.
Carmen Lezeth (35:36):
Really?
Billy Jurberg (35:37):
Yeah, interesting.
Is it by by Dubai is Dubai islike this um fantasy city in a
way, futuristic, futuristic, um,and Tokyo is real.
Oh Tokyo is like, yeah, Tokyois real.
Tokyo has real people, Tokyohas um a culture that is so deep
(36:05):
and so impermeated in everyaspect of it that you just can
feel it.
Carmen Lezeth (36:12):
And there are things so that a real brother, a
real family member would takeme with him and the family to
these places.
Billy Jurberg (36:23):
I have not been to Tokyo or Dubai, so yeah, no,
Dubai is Dubai, the thing aboutDubai that's so um it's
futuristic, but it's also youknow, it's a culture that is so
yeah, I don't hard to wraparound.
Carmen Lezeth (36:40):
Yeah, I'm kidding.
I don't really want to go toDubai.
I've heard people say it's alittle bit too manufactured and
fake.
Billy Jurberg (36:45):
It there is that, and then they and then you know
that there is a whole slaveclass, yeah.
There is a slave class.
I don't care what any and thatis not Tokyo, right?
Carmen Lezeth (36:57):
Okay, so we're going to Tokyo.
I can't wait.
I love it.
Thank you, Billy.
Love you.
Okay, if you could change onething in the world today, what
would it be?
Do not say Trump.
I guess.
Is that it?
I know.
Okay.
It would be skip that one.
(37:18):
All right, we'll skip that one.
Billy Jurberg (37:19):
It would be him.
Uh there's absolutely noquestion.
I would just say, could we justget rid of it for now?
Carmen Lezeth (37:25):
All right.
Okay, favorite part of being adad.
You have two kids.
I'm not gonna say their names,uh, but you have a boy and a
girl.
Uh both are tweens now, right?
Both are, I mean, yeah.
Billy Jurberg (37:40):
Yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (37:40):
One is 16 and one is 12.
12.
Billy Jurberg (37:45):
Just getting to spend time with them.
Carmen Lezeth (37:48):
Yeah.
Billy Jurberg (37:49):
Getting to be in there with them, in their
presence, putting them to bed,more or less, waking them up,
feeding them, being with them.
Carmen Lezeth (38:01):
I just want to say that one of the things, and
I've never told you this that Ilove about you is um you will
call me and we'll talk aboutwhatever, but you're not
constantly talking about yourchildren.
But when you do talk about yourchildren, it is always about
what they're doing and how greatthey are at it.
Even if they're disappointingyou, I don't think you realize
(38:22):
this.
Like a lot of my other friendswill call and bitch and complain
about their children, but youare the only person I know who
calls me and you don't normallytalk about your kids with me.
I think because you know Idon't have kids, you know.
But when you do talk about yourchildren, it is always about
like, oh, the, you know, did yousee what I posted on Instagram,
the piano, da-da-da, what I andit's always about like, and I
(38:45):
noticed this because it's what Iwish I had in a parent.
Like I wish I had had thatgrowing up, that um level of
excitement of an adult and theuplifting of a a child, even
when they're not in yourpresence.
Because I'm sure that neverhappened to me because it wasn't
(39:06):
happening, because there wasnobody around.
You know what I mean?
Like, I so I admire that.
See, when I tell you I admireyou, this is kind of eye-opening
for you, isn't it?
A little bit.
Are you getting sad?
You're trying to no, no, no,no, no, no.
Um, but yeah, I love that aboutyou.
And um, I hope someday when Ido, you know, I mean, I know
your children, but when they'readults, I want to share that
(39:28):
part of you with them.
I don't know why I'm actinglike you won't be around, but
I'm just saying.
Sorry.
Okay, um best part of gettingolder.
Billy Jurberg (39:42):
The best part, I guess the best part of getting
older is you realize whatevertime you have left in front of
you is important.
need to make the most of itbecause whatever's past is past
(40:05):
and it's it's done and you can'tchange it.
Um you could improve upon it Iguess because you can be do
something in the future that'sbetter.
But I think it's I think thebest part of getting older is
that you realize that you haveless in front of you.
You have less time in front ofyou and you have less maybe even
(40:27):
functional time right becausewow interesting right because
you see so many people at 80they're they're not even
functional anymore right likethey're not you know many not
all but you know but there's adisproportionate amount of
people that you know become lessfunctional and they're they're
(40:48):
not being you know productiveand they're not you know um I
think of uh God um what's hername on Golden Pond um on Golden
Pond Jane Fonda Jane Fonda asan example of someone who is so
(41:09):
functional at her age how shespeaks how she is out there how
she is and I I go man I want tobe a Jane Fonda but she right
but she she also talked hastalked about like you know at a
certain age at like 60 she waslike look I know that I have
(41:33):
what's left in front of me isyou know it's this amount of
time and I need to make the mostof it and I in you know and and
and I hate to say that the theobvious that everyone likes to
say oh I don't care about whatanyone thinks anymore and I'm
not going to listen to anyoneelse anymore or whatever.
And I think that that's notentirely true because I think
(41:56):
your feelings can still get hurtand I think you can still feel
like a schmuck and you can stillfeel uh underwhelmed and not be
you know the person that youwant to necessarily be so it's
like it's interesting that yousay this about me currently and
yet I'm at this point in my lifewhere I'm trying to figure out
like what are my next steps likewhat am I going to do?
Carmen Lezeth (42:20):
My kids are going to leave and they've been my
whole life I know you thinkthey're gonna leave but no but
you're convinced they're gonnahang on.
Billy Jurberg (42:33):
But I'm just you know they they're going on to
university and they're gonnahave their own lives you know
and um and so I need to find awhole new me and how am I going
to explore that and what are thethings that I'm going to do to
educate myself and keep learninglike you say all the time like
(42:53):
we want to learn we want to wewant to know more.
Carmen Lezeth (42:57):
That's how you stay young is stay curious.
That's what people don'tunderstand.
It's not about Botox and it'snot about correct you know being
skinny or whatever.
It's really about stayingcurious.
Billy Jurberg (43:07):
Curious correct it's like it's your mind you
know where you want to keep keepit up and going okay um I have
three more questions um this onewe'll wait till the end well
I'll just ask you now do youhave a favorite Rob Reiner film?
Well when Harry met Sally Yeahclassic okay yeah um what is the
(43:29):
one thing you always travelwith because you travel a lot so
what's the one thing you wouldtell people to make sure they do
when they travel or take withyou I'm preparing for our trick
toothbrush really like all rightthat wasn't I don't know you
know I gotta know the truthhere's the truth about traveling
(43:51):
so I'm the one I'm that personthis is this is gonna sound I'm
that person I've seen some someInstagram reels where it's like
the guy's going you know I'mgoing on uh I'm going on
vacation only I don't know whereand I just packed two minutes
ago and the one next to me isthe one that did everything
(44:14):
everything right so that's Davidlike David packs everything he
has scissors and pills and heevery single thing and wipeies
and and it's all perfectlypacked and all perfectly like
and I the minute before we'reready to go I'm like going okay
I'm getting ready I'm gonna goand I I just make sure I've got
(44:37):
you know my my two okay it'ssome advil I always want to make
sure I got some advil readyadvil advil okay all right two
more questions um Jane FondaLily Tomlin or Dolly Parton oh
(44:59):
god I think we already know yousaid Jane Fonda Jane Fonda
although I love I love love lovelove love Dolly Parton and Lily
Tomlin we love and I love LilyTomlin too I know more about
Dolly Parton and I know moreabout Jane Fonda and I'm sorry
Jane Fonda is an icon and I'mher when her and Cher because
(45:21):
Cher's another one I I have somuch I I love Cher and she
getting married to her like 25year old boyfriend good for her
and who and whoever's doing herface or whatever she's got it on
because she's done it properlyto but she whatever doing it
(45:43):
since she was like 20 that's whyI mean no no really look I
think they both look amazing forpeople who have had surgical
faces.
Who did I hear oh you know whatI you want to hear what I heard
which I thought was fuckingpriceless is I'm sorry the the F
bomb what I thought waspriceless is um she says okay
(46:05):
and what is her name and I can'tI see this is when I go brain
dead I can't remember this islike our phone call you you're
like who is it who is thisperson that I'm trying to think
anyways so um she's she's uh auh a writer um from New York
City she doesn't have a phoneshe doesn't have a computer
(46:27):
she's uh she's basically uh avery interesting older woman um
and she's not I don't want tosay historian but she's like a
commentator she's always verythoughtful and I should remember
her name and I can't rememberher name right now anyways she
says look she says there's threefaces there's your young face
(46:53):
there's your old face and thenthere's your surgical face
brilliant I was like it's sotrue she goes and some people's
surgical faces are okay and mostand lots of people's surgical
faces are just surgical facesand it's so true it's like this
was me when I was young this isme if I were old right and this
(47:16):
is my surgical me because it'sso prevalent I know but so many
but so many people do too much.
Carmen Lezeth (47:24):
Cher and Dolly Parton though that that's a
different thing because theythat's kind of their character
persona.
They've been doing it foreverso they don't really count.
Jane Fonda did it right.
Jane Fonda still looks her agebut she's clearly like nobody
has a neck problem in LosAngeles only me because they've
(47:45):
all had the lift they've all hadthis thing done you know what I
mean but but she's done becausethey do the necks I guess right
do they do well they even sayit's a facelift so it's part of
the neck too yeah so it it likelook at me clearly I know way
too much about this I will neverI will never go into surgery
(48:05):
but yeah but I mean if younotice Jane Fonda you know
everybody has this kind of tightnatural thing you know so yeah
well no because now it's likenow I mean these people's faces
are completely utterlydifferent.
They're not even the samepeople I love Demi Moore but I'm
(48:27):
done I can't look at herwithout freaking out I mean she
looks like she's what aboutChris Jenner well like okay so
don't get mad at me there aresome people I do not consider
even worthy of being in myatmosphere because I don't know
what they did to become famous.
So there's a whole bunch of soI don't pay attention to her but
(48:50):
I or the family or the childrenI couldn't all of them I
couldn't pick them out in alineup if they were in front of
me because I don't know I knowthe names but I don't know who
they are um there was anotherone there was a blonde woman who
also was the Hilton she was thedaughter of the yeah I don't
know who she is either but Iknow that that name you know
(49:12):
what I mean I know I'm so meanthat way but I'm like or with
her well no because she's atalented actress right she's you
know whatever you think thelast movie she did what was it
called I don't know but I can'thear you so you have to move
closer to your computer did youlike her in the last movie she
(49:32):
was I don't know what movieyou're talking about.
I haven't she was I didn't seeher in the last movie it was
some kind of ghost or whatever Imean you know like back in the
day all the movies she did orwhatever and it's just here's my
thing do whatever you want todo to make yourself feel better
whatever I'm all cool with itbut it just makes me
uncomfortable to see a womanwhat is she in her 60s and she
(49:54):
looks like she's 25.
Billy Jurberg (49:56):
She's at least in her 60s yeah yeah so it's a
weird one but but that's ourinterview that's it see wasn't
so hard it was in we didn't evenget to talk about politics I
know I was on purpose I wasthat's all right that's for
another one well I mean that I Ithink this is more about just
(50:16):
introducing you to um theatmosphere as my brother for the
mother because I don't wantpeople to hate you right away no
I appreciate you doing thisthough um thank you so much I
love well thank you forinterviewing me I I hope it was
(50:37):
uh somewhat productive I hopeyou get I hope it's do I have to
give you I don't ever rememberyou needing like a confidence
booster no I don't need aconfidence booster are you just
tired no I'm not tired becauseyou had to get up so early to do
the interview and oh I got upmy usual time to go take the
kids I get up at 6 15 you knowthat's my normal time when I
(51:01):
have the kids I get up at 6 15 Imake them breakfast and then um
we're out the door by 7 15 7 30and I drive them all the way to
the all the way to hell rightby the time I get back it's
usually like 8 40 8 45 almostnine o'clock after dropping them
off so my morning is from sixto nine I got a three hour shift
(51:24):
driving those and I'm gonnadelete all of that because most
people can be like bitch pleaseit's true um so I am so grateful
that you came on the show Iappreciate you Billy so much and
remember everyone at the end ofthe day it really is all about
the joy see you next time byeeveryone thank you bye bye so
(51:46):
fake I love it thanks forstopping by all about the joy be
better and stay beautiful folkshave a sweet day
Hi everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
I'm Carmen Lisa, your host, andin the house is my brother from
another mother, which you'veall heard me talk about.
Billy.
Wait, why did you writeWilliam?
Are we going by William too?
Billy Jurberg (00:28):
My name is William.
I know it's Billy.
It's Billy.
Everyone calls me Billy.
I like to be known as Williamwhen it's a more formal setting.
And I'm finding this a littleformal already because you're
interviewing me, so or you'regoing to ask me a fuck a few
(00:48):
questions of you know, of mythoughts on different things.
Anyways.
Carmen Lezeth (00:53):
I I know, but I but it okay.
I thank you.
I'm gonna take that as acompliment.
I'm just gonna kind of I know,thank you.
So, okay, first I want to tellpeople how we know each other
because not everyone knows, butI I was trying to think about
this.
I remember you when I was like12 years old.
I remember first watching youperform.
(01:14):
That's I remember being thatyoung and um seeing you perform
and being like, oh my god, he'sso amazing.
Um, but do you remember when wefirst met?
I don't know if I remember whenwe first met.
Billy Jurberg (01:27):
I don't remember.
I know, I don't know if I knowexactly when we first met.
I want to say you were in SAC,if I remember.
Carmen Lezeth (01:37):
Oh, that was much later then.
That was much later.
Billy Jurberg (01:40):
Oh, really?
So that did I meet you when youwere in West Roxbury?
Carmen Lezeth (01:44):
I yeah, so no, no.
So I okay, so this is where Iremember.
First of all, I watched you,right?
You were a big time performer.
Billy Jurberg (01:51):
Everybody knew who you were, you were the star
of because there were many,let's be clear, there weren't
many guys.
Carmen Lezeth (01:57):
There were not many men at all in the activity
at all, or or black folk at all.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
But I remember um after my mompassed away, um, I was made
captain of the drill team inWest Oxbury, and then um Jerry
Glover brought me to individualsto the competition,
(02:21):
individuals, and I was like 12,maybe 13 years old, and there
was like a hundred peoplecompeting.
And and and didn't you win thatone?
Oh, you said Wanda won thatone, but I think you won that
one.
Billy Jurberg (02:33):
I no, I don't think I I never won.
Let's start with I never won.
Maybe you won in my heart,okay?
Maybe in your heart, and I'msure it came in probably good
second, because even when I wassupposed, because remember, I
had when I first went up, I Iwhen I first went into
individuals, Jay Puccini was inindividuals.
(02:55):
And and let's not forget whoJay Puccini was, right?
Because he was kind of like thereal deal.
He was great at what he did, hewas a guy, and he and he was
straight on top of it, but whichmatters, which was like, oh my,
oh my god, like a straight flagrifle twirler, like that's kind
(03:18):
of hard to believe, but therewere a few.
Um, so anyway, so I he was sortof in it, and then the year he
he didn't go in or he was tooold, he aged out, or whatever,
and it was supposed to be kindof my year.
I lost to Wanda.
No, Wanda was the flag, so itwasn't flag, it was a rifle.
(03:39):
And I lost to some girl, and itwasn't his girlfriend, but I
want to say he taught her, likewhatever.
Anyways, I shouldn't have lost,but I did.
Carmen Lezeth (03:51):
Okay, well, anyway, you uh all I remember is
that you won.
That's all I remember.
So because I was enamored byhow brilliant of a performer you
were, like, and I think youwere too, by the way.
Well, here's the thing (04:04):
I we there was like a hundred people
who competed.
I was like 13 years old, it wasmy first time, and I remember I
came in 12th, which was likeridiculously amazing for me, you
know what I mean?
And I was so excited.
Of course, I thought I wasgonna win.
And when I look back on it, I'mlike, I was so delusional, but
(04:26):
I did really great for you know,whatever.
But I think that was the firsttime I remember being like at
least close to you in that likeI was competing with you.
Now, we never worked togetherin that we were in the same kind
of performing thing.
You taught me, you ended upteaching me.
Billy Jurberg (04:47):
Um, that of course, and that was that was
right.
Carmen Lezeth (04:50):
Did you did you all get that?
Of course, we would never work.
Billy Jurberg (04:54):
Well, of course, no, I meant it more like of
course, that's where ourconnection became the strongest,
right?
Carmen Lezeth (05:01):
Right.
Billy Jurberg (05:02):
That's where we really formed a connection,
right?
Like that's when I really gotto know who you were, more about
you.
Carmen Lezeth (05:10):
Um, you know, and you were the reason why I went
to Lancers.
I mean, you were that was thereason why I wanted to do drum
core, was because you were gonnateach me.
Billy Jurberg (05:19):
So and I and I loved it.
Uh well, I loved it so muchbecause remember, that that year
in Lancers specifically um wasmy first year with Sean.
I worked with Sean O'Brien.
Yeah, it was amazing.
And what was great about Seanwas that he had this whole dance
background, right?
(05:40):
And he was from the activity aswell because he did do drum and
bugle core, but he was theperson that kind of brought in
the dance to to this activity ina way that no one had really
done.
Yeah, that we had on our in ourworld, no one had really done
what he was willing to do.
(06:02):
And what I also, because I wasteaching with him, uh, and
because I was the activitiessort of like kingpin, right?
Like I was the the young newperson in the activity, right?
That they were like, oh, thisis the guy that needs to, you
know, who's gonna take us to thenext level.
I gave him the grace to dowhatever he wanted.
(06:23):
He was amazing, and he was theone that brought in all those
amazing warm-ups, and he was theone that taught me like how to
do tondues and how to doportebra and how to do you know,
real dance.
And I was so enamored withthat, but he was the one.
I I give it to that man who'sno longer with us.
(06:44):
He was the one that was able totake me into a totally
different direction with theactivity.
So I wasn't just like twirlingmy flag, but I was like, oh,
look at this expressive stuffthat I can do with this flag
that made it more exciting andmore beautiful.
(07:04):
And what was so amazing aboutyou specifically was that you
were able to interpret it in away that most people did not
get.
Carmen Lezeth (07:15):
Yeah, but that would be in trouble.
That would always get because II had us not with us.
Billy Jurberg (07:20):
No, no, no, absolutely not.
Look at Miss Carmen with thosewings flying through.
Look at how she did it.
Carmen Lezeth (07:27):
I know, but Sean and you also really helped me
technically, because as much asI was a great dancer, and I was
because I had that background asa young kid just in the
neighborhood and all the otherthings I was doing, which it's
so weird because when I thinkabout ColorGuard and Jumcor,
people that's everybody, that'sall anybody did.
(07:48):
Like we that that was yourpassion, you know what I mean?
But I think what was great wasthat I really was horrible at
the technical aspects ofdancing, and Sean and you kind
of hone that in.
So I was great at being like,voila, you know what I mean?
But it like I remember one timeSean was like, so we need to
tone that down, you know, weneed to bring that in.
(08:11):
No, no, and every time I seethe birdcage, I don't know if
you know that movie with NathanLane.
And and you know when RobinWilliams goes up on the stage
and he's like, I want you tohave Madonna, Madonna, Martha
Graham, Martha Graham.
Do you remember that part?
And then he's like, but I wantyou to keep it all inside.
I think of Sean teaching me,like that's what I think of.
(08:32):
Like, I do.
I love that thing.
So yeah, but yeah, he wasgreat.
Billy Jurberg (08:37):
He really, he really too.
Carmen Lezeth (08:39):
You give him way more credit.
You were amazing and great, andyou brought a lot to the
activity.
Is that what we're calling itnow?
The activity?
Billy Jurberg (08:48):
I've always called it the activity.
Carmen Lezeth (08:51):
It's selling a mafia thing.
Billy Jurberg (08:53):
You know what I realized the other day?
I was trying to put into timingum how long I was in it and how
long I went out of it.
And I realized that I my firstyear into it was 1980.
It was my first.
So I really started probablyprobably around 1979.
But 1980 was my first year Icompeted.
(09:16):
And um the last year I competedwas 2001.
Um, 2001 was my last WGI I didwith the high school that I
taught.
Right.
Um, and that was I had alreadymet um, who was my you know, my
my just delete that part, but goahead.
(09:37):
Yeah, yeah.
But so I had just met him, sothat's when I got out.
And so I just realized thatI've now surpassed the time that
I was in it.
So I was in it for roughly 21years or something, and now I've
been out of it for over 25years, right?
Like, so my time my life hascompletely changed.
(09:58):
And I was just thinking thatbecause I had seen something on
Instagram, you know, there's alot of of the uh activity on
Instagram, you know, and it'squite it's it's you know so
much.
It's and it's so big, it's it'sso many thousands of kids that
are participating in it.
Yeah, but I you know what?
Carmen Lezeth (10:17):
Look, it I'm I'm always gonna be a little bit
negative on it because I feellike I mean, I hope it's
changed.
I hope it's changed.
I hope that now it's an avenuefor real performers to move
forward into another aspect ofperforming.
Not once, not once while I wasin this activity, did anyone
even consider the possibilitythat there might be something
(10:37):
afterwards?
You know what I mean?
And and I think that did adisservice to a lot of the real
talent that and the reallypassionate people.
Um, for me, it was a survivalmechanism.
There's no doubt about it.
But I was also really good atit, you know.
And I just imagine if I had hadsome type of support system in
a different way, maybe I wouldhave moved out to California
(11:00):
quicker, or you know what Imean?
Like, or something.
But I mean, I'm not blaming,I'm just hoping that the
activity has changed and it'sactually that I mean, even just
jump chord, the amount of talentmusic-wise, like I think of all
of those amazing people,musicians.
And I think to myself, I I hopemost of them had opportunities
(11:21):
to keep, you know what I mean?
Does that make sense?
Billy Jurberg (11:23):
But to move forward.
Yeah, it's it's it uhabsolutely.
I mean, I watched um some ofDCI this year.
I I got the the uh sport of thearts uh page or whatever, uh,
and I I I I I did my you knowpaid to to to be able to watch
some of it, and I had the kidswatch some of the top groups,
(11:44):
right?
You know, the blue devils whoare still around, you know what
I mean, and um some others.
The talent is absolutelyundeniable, the passion is
undeniable, and and that to meis you're absolutely right.
I also for as much as how yousaid, like, you know, being kind
(12:08):
of negative on it or whatever,I also um want to say that I
feel like it's it's also whatgot me out of the mosh pit of
nothingness.
Yep, I understand brought meinto a place where it opened up
(12:30):
my world a little bit.
And even though it was thissmall world of flag trolling or
whatever, I felt like I saw moreof the world.
Carmen Lezeth (12:42):
Well, we did, we traveled a lot, yeah.
Billy Jurberg (12:43):
Yeah, but just more, it it just opened me up to
different people, differentexperiences, different things,
and and and also it took thatfire that's in your belly, like
I'm gonna be good at this, and Iand I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna
conquer this, and I'm gonna, youknow, and and for for the
(13:06):
people that it serves, which bythe way, it serves really the
blue collar, if you will.
If I don't know if there'sstill a blue collar in our
country anymore, but thereisn't.
Right?
The lower, let's just say thelower socioeconomic at least
when we were growing up.
Carmen Lezeth (13:25):
I mean, that's the same.
Billy Jurberg (13:27):
And I think it's still I think it's still part of
that.
Yeah, because let's face it,the band kids are not
necessarily the orchestra, youknow, talented people who are
playing, you know, piano andviolin, and you know what I
mean, and they're going toballet classes necessarily,
right?
(13:47):
And and gymnastics and stufflike this.
This is the people that don'thave that opportunity and just
kind of want to be, and ofcourse, there's also, you know,
it also because it's band andstuff like that, and uh in in
high schools, it grabs a lot ofI think children from a lot of
different backgrounds, but thebasic of it is is more, you
(14:12):
know, the the the the the lowersocio economic that's what I
feel.
Um, for sure.
There's no doubt that was thatwas our thing, right?
Carmen Lezeth (14:20):
That was how we grew up.
That's yeah, and it wasn't.
I always say this, it was asaving grace.
I mean, there is no doubt thatkept me out of gangs, it kept me
out of living on the streetsall the time.
Uh well, and you know how Ifeel about the drug death.
Billy Jurberg (14:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (14:37):
Because there were drugs where I grew up, and
then I would go to rehearsal andI would and there would be
drugs everywhere.
But I you know I have my issuewith that.
Billy Jurberg (14:46):
But yeah, I try not to judge, but it's no, but
that's that was also specific,by the way, I think in many ways
to your group.
Yeah, blessed.
Carmen Lezeth (14:55):
So we don't have to talk about that, but I just
think for me, it was also justkind of a realization that the
world wasn't as like I alwaysthought my neighborhood was bad
and the world was good.
And then I realized becausethat the world had some of that
too.
Billy Jurberg (15:11):
That the world had it was all inner city, girl.
You were it was all inner city,you went from one inner city to
the other.
Carmen Lezeth (15:18):
I know, but I I lived in Boston and in in in JP.
And so there was this kind ofyou know, it was all Latino,
black, Irish, all poor folk, butlike whatever.
You went to Cambridge, right?
No, no, and then I'd go to WestOxford.
It was all white, everybody wasall white, it was very church
going, you know, whatever.
But blessed sex was what,Cambridge, no?
Yeah, that was Cambridge, thatwas later on.
(15:39):
Um, and then that was like theshock of my life.
Anyways, we'll talk about thegood stuff, but okay, so back to
you, because this isn't reallysupposed to be all about the
what did you call it?
The practice?
The activity?
Billy Jurberg (15:53):
I swear to god, I've known you forever and I've
never heard you call it.
We've always called it theactivity, we all call it the
activity.
Carmen Lezeth (16:00):
It sounds so fucking hilarious.
Okay, that's how we met.
And here was my question that Iwas thinking about last night.
I was like, did you like okay?
I just want to say for people,you were when I say you're an
extraordinary performer, I'm notexaggerating.
I don't say that about anybody,anybody.
You were an incredibleperformer, and you know that.
(16:20):
You know that, as well as Iknow that I'm right about this,
but you were also anextraordinary teacher, and I was
wondering which one you lovedmore.
Billy Jurberg (16:32):
Oh, that's that's interesting.
Carmen Lezeth (16:33):
I no teaching really, yeah, because you were
an incredible teacher.
Billy Jurberg (16:38):
Yeah, no, and and and when when it when I went
on, there was there were someexperiences that I had in
teaching with certain groupsthrough the years that were for
sure magical.
Yeah, and and it was magical inpart because it was a
combination of the talent, thecommitment, the product, what
(17:05):
you were actually teaching.
So the whole thing cametogether to be something really
magical.
And by the way, that teachingwas what provoked me to become a
teacher, right?
Because I I went to I went touniversity very late in life,
because I started universitywhen I was basically 29, I
(17:26):
guess.
I was 29 years old when I wentto university.
Carmen Lezeth (17:29):
So never late.
Billy Jurberg (17:30):
You were right on to never too late.
That teaching brought me intoactual education, right?
So I ended up going to uhuniversity and getting a degree
in elementary education, and Itaught for six years in the
public, in the public schoolsystem, which here in Miami,
which by the way, I went fromteaching in um Liberty City,
(17:55):
which is pretty much the ghetto,to because that's they always
put you, they always put you inat you know where you're most
needed, might be the whereyou're most where you're most
needed and where you're have nouh least effective because you
have no experience and you'rejust you know they're ready for
(18:16):
you to eat you.
Right.
Um, and I went from there toteaching in one of the better
school districts, actually, inthe in the in the city as well.
So um, so I had bothexperiences, and both
experiences were very, very uhpositive.
And I really enjoyed the wholeteaching experience, and I
thought it was really amazing.
(18:37):
And the only reason I leftteaching was um, well, the only
reason there was a couplereasons, you know.
One of them was financial,right?
Carmen Lezeth (18:47):
Because yeah, we don't pay our teachers enough.
Billy Jurberg (18:49):
We just not enough, anything, yeah, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (18:53):
Anything.
I mean, that's why Andrea lefttoo.
And and I think about the twopeople I would want teaching my
children would be you andAndrea, you know, like just
brilliant human beings, but itit's it's always people who are
like I can make more moneysomewhere else, and what's all
the drama like with this life,you know?
Billy Jurberg (19:10):
Yeah, and so then that's what provoked me.
It was that, and then uh I I Ialso had the impression that I
would probably at some pointhave children of my own, and
which I do, but but but becauseof that, I said, Well, you know,
teaching and child, it's a lot,and and I all I really wanted
(19:31):
to pursue my passion of interiordesign, right?
Carmen Lezeth (19:35):
So you are incredible with Billy Blanco
designs.
I mean, it's just yeah.
Billy Jurberg (19:41):
Thank thank you.
Carmen Lezeth (19:42):
That's I just went to your website again
yesterday, and I was like, thetree house.
I mean, the way in which youguys designed, I mean, that's
part of my question, too, iswell, sorry, I didn't mean to
cut you off, but you know, no,no, no, that's fine.
Billy Jurberg (19:55):
I was just saying how you know one thing led to
the other, but I went back toSchool for a degree in interior
design, which is where you knowI met my you know my current
partner and my business partnerDavid, who is, you know, we love
David.
Carmen Lezeth (20:10):
Hi David.
Billy Jurberg (20:12):
Who's super, you know, super brilliant at um at
it.
And um so anyway, so yeah, sosay that again.
Carmen Lezeth (20:22):
And so are you anyway?
The compliment is so hard.
Billy Jurberg (20:28):
So now I so now uh to your point, to your
question, I I think teaching wasmore um rewarding for me.
Carmen Lezeth (20:39):
Can I tell you why I think you were a great
teacher?
Billy Jurberg (20:42):
Why?
Carmen Lezeth (20:43):
Because most people who teach seem to be
angry about the fact thatthey're not actually doing the
thing that they're teaching.
Billy Jurberg (20:51):
Oh, that's interesting.
Carmen Lezeth (20:52):
You know what I mean?
Like you were like, No, I havea gift, let me share it, kind of
thing.
Whereas a lot of people who Iwas coached by, taught by,
whatever, there was aresentment, and that's even in
acting.
Like, just you can see peoplewho are like, I couldn't make it
as an actor, so now I'm ateacher.
And it's like you stay awayfrom those people, you know what
I mean?
But interesting.
I think that was always a greatgift.
(21:13):
You really marveled at watchingpeople not only excel, but do
what they were taught correctly,and then that's interesting,
yeah, for sure.
Yeah, and then when they fuckedit up, like I did a lot.
Um, you didn't get angry, youwere great at being like, let me
help you tweak this to do itright.
So you also met me where I wasat.
(21:35):
I assume you did that witheveryone.
You know, you were notcondescending, you were not
cruel.
Um, and you understood that Iwas who I was and somebody else
was who they were, and you hadto teach me differently than you
taught them.
And that's what I alwaysadmired about you.
I know.
Are you blushing?
I am a little bit in my in mywhite.
You didn't know that?
(21:56):
You didn't know that.
Billy Jurberg (21:57):
No, I don't, I it's it's interesting that you
would say it that way because umit's not how necessarily how I
looked at it.
I looked, I looked at it likeum, you know, I was there in
part to um to make the kidsbetter, right?
Like it was like for them toimprove.
(22:19):
And a big and and uh a big partwas obviously the creative
aspect of it, making somethingthat was creative and doing
something creative and do andand doing something beautiful,
but then bringing the kids tothe potential of that was always
amazing, and then getting themto have confidence, yes, like
(22:43):
people that you would say werelike when they walked into their
first rehearsal were like likethis, you know what I mean?
Carmen Lezeth (22:52):
Like I just want to be clear, I never had that
problem.
Billy Jurberg (22:58):
I'm sorry, you're right.
I would agree, I would agreewith that.
I never had that problem.
But there's plenty of people.
Carmen Lezeth (23:05):
No, of course, you're right, you're right,
you're right, right?
Billy Jurberg (23:08):
And then and then I mean, they might not come out
and be some, you know,whatever, but I but I certainly
saw people come out of theirshells and become so much more
than they ever thought that theywere, right?
And and and that's somethingthat a lot of those people took
(23:28):
with them for life, right?
Carmen Lezeth (23:30):
And into the world.
It's beautiful, right?
That you did that for people.
Billy Jurberg (23:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (23:36):
Why are we friends?
Why are we friends cool?
I mean, I I I know why I loveyou, but I I was thinking You
want me you want to know why Ilove you?
Billy Jurberg (23:48):
Well, I know why you love me.
Well, okay, yeah, let's showthat no, I think I think we I
think we share a history and weshare ideology.
We do lack of we have a lot ofvery similar um beliefs in in
our system of life, and uh ifyou want to say our moral sort
(24:14):
of, and I don't like to saymoral so much because it makes
you sound like, but you know,how we feel about um humanity,
how we feel about society, howwe feel so I think those things
are really connect us, um, sothat we have like that strong
sort of bond.
Um, I think we're both also inour own ways self-made.
Carmen Lezeth (24:38):
Yes.
Oh, that's a good one.
Yeah.
Billy Jurberg (24:41):
I didn't think right.
We we both have sort ofself-made ourselves.
We we brought ourselves fromyou know, from sort of
nothingness into right, intoputting us through school and
and always exploring.
And and our histories, our ourour our our backstories, um I
(25:06):
think have helped to connect us.
And I I don't know about you,but for me, I'm the type of
person that I need I like or Iwant or I desire.
I need some of my past broughtinto my future for me to know
(25:28):
that there's sort of thatcontinuity.
And if it if right, and so ifthere's any way of saying it,
like you said it, it's likebrother from another mother.
You have some sort of a familytie connection, and and that's
how I feel, you know, and soit's so for me, it's more it's
(25:50):
like you're part of my chosenfamily.
Oh, I love it so anyway.
Carmen Lezeth (25:55):
I think I I think for me too, it's more about, I
mean, all of that, of course.
But you know, I don't stay intouch with a lot of people from
back in the day.
I agree with you, and that'spart of what our connection is,
is that history.
And I okay, so I'm gonna saysomething to embarrass you even
more, I think.
Anyways, I don't know, I know.
I love people who teach mesomething and make me a better
(26:19):
person, and you've always beenthat.
Now, there's no doubt when Iwas a young kid, I was just, you
know, you and Susan Kerwin.
Do you remember Susan Kerwin?
I don't know if you remember.
Yeah, I don't know if you knewher, but you two were these
amazing performers that Iaspired to be like.
You know what I mean?
And I think that continues tothis day.
Like, yes, I know we are, youknow, we're on equal footing, we
(26:42):
laugh, we talk regularly, wewhatever, right?
We visit with each other,whatever.
But I think what I still loveabout you is that you still
teach me something.
Like you did it the other daywhen we were talking about
politics.
And I was like, I didn't thinkabout it that way.
You know what I mean?
And I think that's what kind offor me is also a really
important connection to people.
We've also never had a fight.
(27:03):
And I fight with everybody.
Have we had a fight?
I don't think we've ever had afight.
Billy Jurberg (27:08):
I don't I'm I well for me, no, I don't think
we have, but uh for me, I'm notreally um I don't I don't I
don't I don't like to becombative only with my partner,
David.
Okay, and even I'm a little bitand my and my kids a little
bit, I'm a little combative withthem.
Carmen Lezeth (27:27):
Yeah, no, no, but I'm just saying when I think
about all my friendships, theones that are close to me,
whatever, and I think about andI'm like, I don't think I've
ever had like I've never beenmad at you, I've never been
angry, I've never, I don't knowwhat that's about.
That's really interesting.
We'll have to work on the otherpart.
Billy Jurberg (27:44):
Maybe we need to let's get in a fight.
You want to have a fight?
Carmen Lezeth (27:48):
No, no, but you you know what it is?
Because I think that well, Imean, look at all relationships
are very different, but I thinkthere's also I I have such a
different type of respect foryou.
And it does that you willalways be someone.
I know you're gonna hate this,but you're always someone I look
up to.
And I know you probably don'trealize that, but I I do.
So I would never fight withyou.
(28:09):
All my other motherfuckingfriends, I fight with you
because we equal.
Billy Jurberg (28:14):
That's so funny.
That is that is kind offrightening.
Carmen Lezeth (28:17):
I don't know why we've never fight, uh, never
fought, but um, you know, okay.
I have a little fast round, alittle fast round.
Billy Jurberg (28:25):
Okay, fast round questions.
Carmen Lezeth (28:27):
Um, and you can either expand on it or not.
Okay.
Billy Jurberg (28:31):
Okay.
Carmen Lezeth (28:32):
All right, you doing good so far with these
questions?
I'm doing great.
Okay.
Did I embarrass you?
Billy Jurberg (28:37):
No, not at all.
Carmen Lezeth (28:39):
Okay.
All right.
Um, Berishnikov or Nuryev.
Mikhail Berishnikov or RudolfNuryev.
I know that's a hard one.
Billy Jurberg (28:51):
So I'm gonna say, okay, I'm gonna say
Berishnikov, and I'm gonna say acouple things.
I've seen both of them.
Me too.
On stage, yeah, live, live, um,but only Nuriev playing the
king in The King and I.
Carmen Lezeth (29:10):
Oh, okay.
Billy Jurberg (29:12):
On stage in Boston at one point, you know,
because he's I don't know.
Carmen Lezeth (29:16):
That's where I saw him in Boston too.
Oh, you did?
When did he saw him in DonQuixote?
I saw him in Don Quixote.
I was really young.
Wow, I was real young becausedid he pass away in the 90s?
Yeah, no, he did, but I saw himlike I was really young.
We had gotten three tickets orsomething, yeah.
And I was like this.
Yeah, it was yeah.
Billy Jurberg (29:36):
So I never really got to see him dance, so that's
why I'm I'm leaning moretowards Barishnikov, who I did
who I did see dance a lot.
He's more of our contemporary,yes, or my contemporary, anyway.
So that's why I'm gonna sayhim, right?
I mean, I even liked him in sexand the contemporary, he's
older than you, okay.
Carmen Lezeth (29:55):
Not that much.
All right, well, anyways, wedon't need to we'll delete that
too.
I don't know if he's I thinkhe's older than you, but but
he's yeah, no, I'm sure he is,but not by a lot.
Okay, but he I know, but youlook so good, okay.
But here's the thing (30:09):
I mean, Mikhail Barishnikov is kind of,
I don't want to say protege touh Rudolf Noryev, but he, you
know, I loved him.
Billy Jurberg (30:19):
He yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
Carmen Lezeth (30:21):
So I mean it was kind of a trick question, but
there is no real answer.
Uh yeah, but you would pickBerishnikov just because he's
more our time.
Billy Jurberg (30:30):
Yeah, more of a contemporary.
That's what I would say.
I've seen more of him.
I've seen him, I've seen himlive.
Carmen Lezeth (30:36):
Did you see him in the nutcracker?
Billy Jurberg (30:38):
What did you see?
No, I saw him here in in Miamiwhen he did um his, he it was
towards the end of his dancing,um, if you will.
Um, and he did uh he was it wasa very small intimate theater,
and he did a live performance ofhis more contemporary sort of
dance.
Carmen Lezeth (30:58):
Right.
Billy Jurberg (30:58):
It was a more contemporary piece, it wasn't
classical at all.
Um, and so um, but I I and youknow, like I said, I even liked
him in Sex in the City.
I I just I did, I did.
He was great.
Um, I just think he, you know,I think he he really um has had
has done a lot for dance and formen particularly.
Carmen Lezeth (31:22):
Men, yeah, particularly too.
Just kind of uh that the thehe's just I remember when he did
the movie with Gregory Hines, Iforget the name of it.
Remember they uh it was the twoof them and they were like
spies, and one was defecting.
Okay, you don't know what I'mtalking about.
No, I don't him and GregoryHines, they do this whole tap
(31:42):
dancing scene together, and Iwas like, God, is there anything
this man can't do?
I'll try to do the clip tothat.
I forget the movie, but it's sogood.
I think you know it, you justdon't remember it.
Billy Jurberg (31:53):
I think that that could be that could be
possible.
Carmen Lezeth (31:56):
Because if you know I'm just in the city, you
must have seen them in thatmovie.
Okay, what's your one vice thatyou can share on a public
forum?
Billy Jurberg (32:09):
My one vice?
Yeah, champagne.
Carmen Lezeth (32:14):
I would not have guessed that.
Okay, do we normally do vooveor are we talking, are we going
up?
Billy Jurberg (32:21):
No, well, I I do something, and you know, I do
something more on the voove.
Carmen Lezeth (32:26):
Domperyon.
No girl, girl, like no girl.
Billy Jurberg (32:31):
All right, all right, I would say I um but if
you're saying like if you'resaying uh like a vice like that,
like that's something that Ienjoy.
I don't know.
Carmen Lezeth (32:40):
I love champagne, I just didn't know that.
Billy Jurberg (32:42):
Yeah, I don't know if that's if that if I
would call that a vice or whatmy enjoy what my other vice
would be.
Carmen Lezeth (32:50):
I thought you would say yoga.
That's what I thought you wouldsay.
Billy Jurberg (32:54):
Like well, it's interesting because I I could
say exercise, you know, becauseI you know I like to go to in by
exercise, I like I like to goto the gym, I like to do yoga, I
like to do um, you know, like aspinning class.
I'll even I even like to get onthe treadmill and just walk.
And so um I do uh likeexercise, and it's probably
(33:15):
honestly my real vice becauseexercise in general, in general,
because I do it as often as Ican, and there's times when I I
can't do it because you know thekids or schedule or whatever.
So whenever I can, I do.
Um, and at the same time, it'sone of those things that it's a
(33:38):
little bit of like, okay, Igotta drag into it, and then
once I'm there, I'm like, I'mI'm good to go, right?
Like I I put my all into it.
Carmen Lezeth (33:49):
It's kind of normal for everyone, right?
Billy Jurberg (33:51):
I mean, you gotta just get yourself out there,
but yeah, gotta kind of, youknow, like half the battle is
getting there.
Um, but I do, and uh it issomething that's more, but I
guess when when when you sayvice, um, you know, and I I I
maybe even when you're thinkingtoo deeply on this, right?
(34:11):
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, because I because I wouldsay even I would even say
cooking, you know, because Ilove to cook.
Oh, that's true.
You are quite the cook.
This is true.
You know, so I love to cook, soI don't know if that's a vice,
you know, or I so I don't knowhow I don't know how one d d
defines diet a vice.
Like, how do you define that?
Carmen Lezeth (34:32):
It was just a question, but now but see, we've
learned so much about youbecause you were able to go.
That's the whole point.
Billy Jurberg (34:38):
Oh, okay, all right.
But I want to know how youdefine vice.
Carmen Lezeth (34:42):
I think a vice for me would be like I I a vice
for me would be something Ican't not do.
Like if I don't do it, it painsme.
So like my vice would be Imight in a so then it's not
champagne, so then it's notchampagne.
Billy Jurberg (34:58):
No, if it's like I don't have you know what I
mean, like it's it's champagneis something that I enjoy to do.
It's like it's something, but Iwould say if it's something
that I can't that I have, itwould be exercise.
Exercise, for sure.
That I that I it would pain, itdoes pain me.
If I can't, if I can't do itfor like a week or two, I it's
like I'm right, I'm a little,I'm a little jonesing, like I
(35:22):
need to do something.
You know what I mean?
Carmen Lezeth (35:23):
Well, that's what I meant.
Like I I I think for me, that'swhat advice means, but I again
these are just to provoke peopleto get to know you and
understand why I love you somuch.
Okay, Tokyo or Dubai, because Iknow you've been to both,
right?
Billy Jurberg (35:35):
Tokyo.
Carmen Lezeth (35:36):
Really?
Billy Jurberg (35:37):
Yeah, interesting.
Is it by by Dubai is Dubai islike this um fantasy city in a
way, futuristic, futuristic, um,and Tokyo is real.
Oh Tokyo is like, yeah, Tokyois real.
Tokyo has real people, Tokyohas um a culture that is so deep
(36:05):
and so impermeated in everyaspect of it that you just can
feel it.
Carmen Lezeth (36:12):
And there are things so that a real brother, a
real family member would takeme with him and the family to
these places.
Billy Jurberg (36:23):
I have not been to Tokyo or Dubai, so yeah, no,
Dubai is Dubai, the thing aboutDubai that's so um it's
futuristic, but it's also youknow, it's a culture that is so
yeah, I don't hard to wraparound.
Carmen Lezeth (36:40):
Yeah, I'm kidding.
I don't really want to go toDubai.
I've heard people say it's alittle bit too manufactured and
fake.
Billy Jurberg (36:45):
It there is that, and then they and then you know
that there is a whole slaveclass, yeah.
There is a slave class.
I don't care what any and thatis not Tokyo, right?
Carmen Lezeth (36:57):
Okay, so we're going to Tokyo.
I can't wait.
I love it.
Thank you, Billy.
Love you.
Okay, if you could change onething in the world today, what
would it be?
Do not say Trump.
I guess.
Is that it?
I know.
Okay.
It would be skip that one.
(37:18):
All right, we'll skip that one.
Billy Jurberg (37:19):
It would be him.
Uh there's absolutely noquestion.
I would just say, could we justget rid of it for now?
Carmen Lezeth (37:25):
All right.
Okay, favorite part of being adad.
You have two kids.
I'm not gonna say their names,uh, but you have a boy and a
girl.
Uh both are tweens now, right?
Both are, I mean, yeah.
Billy Jurberg (37:40):
Yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (37:40):
One is 16 and one is 12.
12.
Billy Jurberg (37:45):
Just getting to spend time with them.
Carmen Lezeth (37:48):
Yeah.
Billy Jurberg (37:49):
Getting to be in there with them, in their
presence, putting them to bed,more or less, waking them up,
feeding them, being with them.
Carmen Lezeth (38:01):
I just want to say that one of the things, and
I've never told you this that Ilove about you is um you will
call me and we'll talk aboutwhatever, but you're not
constantly talking about yourchildren.
But when you do talk about yourchildren, it is always about
what they're doing and how greatthey are at it.
Even if they're disappointingyou, I don't think you realize
(38:22):
this.
Like a lot of my other friendswill call and bitch and complain
about their children, but youare the only person I know who
calls me and you don't normallytalk about your kids with me.
I think because you know Idon't have kids, you know.
But when you do talk about yourchildren, it is always about
like, oh, the, you know, did yousee what I posted on Instagram,
the piano, da-da-da, what I andit's always about like, and I
(38:45):
noticed this because it's what Iwish I had in a parent.
Like I wish I had had thatgrowing up, that um level of
excitement of an adult and theuplifting of a a child, even
when they're not in yourpresence.
Because I'm sure that neverhappened to me because it wasn't
(39:06):
happening, because there wasnobody around.
You know what I mean?
Like, I so I admire that.
See, when I tell you I admireyou, this is kind of eye-opening
for you, isn't it?
A little bit.
Are you getting sad?
You're trying to no, no, no,no, no, no.
Um, but yeah, I love that aboutyou.
And um, I hope someday when Ido, you know, I mean, I know
your children, but when they'readults, I want to share that
(39:28):
part of you with them.
I don't know why I'm actinglike you won't be around, but
I'm just saying.
Sorry.
Okay, um best part of gettingolder.
Billy Jurberg (39:42):
The best part, I guess the best part of getting
older is you realize whatevertime you have left in front of
you is important.
need to make the most of itbecause whatever's past is past
(40:05):
and it's it's done and you can'tchange it.
Um you could improve upon it Iguess because you can be do
something in the future that'sbetter.
But I think it's I think thebest part of getting older is
that you realize that you haveless in front of you.
You have less time in front ofyou and you have less maybe even
(40:27):
functional time right becausewow interesting right because
you see so many people at 80they're they're not even
functional anymore right likethey're not you know many not
all but you know but there's adisproportionate amount of
people that you know become lessfunctional and they're they're
(40:48):
not being you know productiveand they're not you know um I
think of uh God um what's hername on Golden Pond um on Golden
Pond Jane Fonda Jane Fonda asan example of someone who is so
(41:09):
functional at her age how shespeaks how she is out there how
she is and I I go man I want tobe a Jane Fonda but she right
but she she also talked hastalked about like you know at a
certain age at like 60 she waslike look I know that I have
(41:33):
what's left in front of me isyou know it's this amount of
time and I need to make the mostof it and I in you know and and
and I hate to say that the theobvious that everyone likes to
say oh I don't care about whatanyone thinks anymore and I'm
not going to listen to anyoneelse anymore or whatever.
And I think that that's notentirely true because I think
(41:56):
your feelings can still get hurtand I think you can still feel
like a schmuck and you can stillfeel uh underwhelmed and not be
you know the person that youwant to necessarily be so it's
like it's interesting that yousay this about me currently and
yet I'm at this point in my lifewhere I'm trying to figure out
like what are my next steps likewhat am I going to do?
Carmen Lezeth (42:20):
My kids are going to leave and they've been my
whole life I know you thinkthey're gonna leave but no but
you're convinced they're gonnahang on.
Billy Jurberg (42:33):
But I'm just you know they they're going on to
university and they're gonnahave their own lives you know
and um and so I need to find awhole new me and how am I going
to explore that and what are thethings that I'm going to do to
educate myself and keep learninglike you say all the time like
(42:53):
we want to learn we want to wewant to know more.
Carmen Lezeth (42:57):
That's how you stay young is stay curious.
That's what people don'tunderstand.
It's not about Botox and it'snot about correct you know being
skinny or whatever.
It's really about stayingcurious.
Billy Jurberg (43:07):
Curious correct it's like it's your mind you
know where you want to keep keepit up and going okay um I have
three more questions um this onewe'll wait till the end well
I'll just ask you now do youhave a favorite Rob Reiner film?
Well when Harry met Sally Yeahclassic okay yeah um what is the
(43:29):
one thing you always travelwith because you travel a lot so
what's the one thing you wouldtell people to make sure they do
when they travel or take withyou I'm preparing for our trick
toothbrush really like all rightthat wasn't I don't know you
know I gotta know the truthhere's the truth about traveling
(43:51):
so I'm the one I'm that personthis is this is gonna sound I'm
that person I've seen some someInstagram reels where it's like
the guy's going you know I'mgoing on uh I'm going on
vacation only I don't know whereand I just packed two minutes
ago and the one next to me isthe one that did everything
(44:14):
everything right so that's Davidlike David packs everything he
has scissors and pills and heevery single thing and wipeies
and and it's all perfectlypacked and all perfectly like
and I the minute before we'reready to go I'm like going okay
I'm getting ready I'm gonna goand I I just make sure I've got
(44:37):
you know my my two okay it'ssome advil I always want to make
sure I got some advil readyadvil advil okay all right two
more questions um Jane FondaLily Tomlin or Dolly Parton oh
(44:59):
god I think we already know yousaid Jane Fonda Jane Fonda
although I love I love love lovelove love Dolly Parton and Lily
Tomlin we love and I love LilyTomlin too I know more about
Dolly Parton and I know moreabout Jane Fonda and I'm sorry
Jane Fonda is an icon and I'mher when her and Cher because
(45:21):
Cher's another one I I have somuch I I love Cher and she
getting married to her like 25year old boyfriend good for her
and who and whoever's doing herface or whatever she's got it on
because she's done it properlyto but she whatever doing it
(45:43):
since she was like 20 that's whyI mean no no really look I
think they both look amazing forpeople who have had surgical
faces.
Who did I hear oh you know whatI you want to hear what I heard
which I thought was fuckingpriceless is I'm sorry the the F
bomb what I thought waspriceless is um she says okay
(46:05):
and what is her name and I can'tI see this is when I go brain
dead I can't remember this islike our phone call you you're
like who is it who is thisperson that I'm trying to think
anyways so um she's she's uh auh a writer um from New York
City she doesn't have a phoneshe doesn't have a computer
(46:27):
she's uh she's basically uh avery interesting older woman um
and she's not I don't want tosay historian but she's like a
commentator she's always verythoughtful and I should remember
her name and I can't rememberher name right now anyways she
says look she says there's threefaces there's your young face
(46:53):
there's your old face and thenthere's your surgical face
brilliant I was like it's sotrue she goes and some people's
surgical faces are okay and mostand lots of people's surgical
faces are just surgical facesand it's so true it's like this
was me when I was young this isme if I were old right and this
(47:16):
is my surgical me because it'sso prevalent I know but so many
but so many people do too much.
Carmen Lezeth (47:24):
Cher and Dolly Parton though that that's a
different thing because theythat's kind of their character
persona.
They've been doing it foreverso they don't really count.
Jane Fonda did it right.
Jane Fonda still looks her agebut she's clearly like nobody
has a neck problem in LosAngeles only me because they've
(47:45):
all had the lift they've all hadthis thing done you know what I
mean but but she's done becausethey do the necks I guess right
do they do well they even sayit's a facelift so it's part of
the neck too yeah so it it likelook at me clearly I know way
too much about this I will neverI will never go into surgery
(48:05):
but yeah but I mean if younotice Jane Fonda you know
everybody has this kind of tightnatural thing you know so yeah
well no because now it's likenow I mean these people's faces
are completely utterlydifferent.
They're not even the samepeople I love Demi Moore but I'm
(48:27):
done I can't look at herwithout freaking out I mean she
looks like she's what aboutChris Jenner well like okay so
don't get mad at me there aresome people I do not consider
even worthy of being in myatmosphere because I don't know
what they did to become famous.
So there's a whole bunch of soI don't pay attention to her but
(48:50):
I or the family or the childrenI couldn't all of them I
couldn't pick them out in alineup if they were in front of
me because I don't know I knowthe names but I don't know who
they are um there was anotherone there was a blonde woman who
also was the Hilton she was thedaughter of the yeah I don't
know who she is either but Iknow that that name you know
(49:12):
what I mean I know I'm so meanthat way but I'm like or with
her well no because she's atalented actress right she's you
know whatever you think thelast movie she did what was it
called I don't know but I can'thear you so you have to move
closer to your computer did youlike her in the last movie she
(49:32):
was I don't know what movieyou're talking about.
I haven't she was I didn't seeher in the last movie it was
some kind of ghost or whatever Imean you know like back in the
day all the movies she did orwhatever and it's just here's my
thing do whatever you want todo to make yourself feel better
whatever I'm all cool with itbut it just makes me
uncomfortable to see a womanwhat is she in her 60s and she
(49:54):
looks like she's 25.
Billy Jurberg (49:56):
She's at least in her 60s yeah yeah so it's a
weird one but but that's ourinterview that's it see wasn't
so hard it was in we didn't evenget to talk about politics I
know I was on purpose I wasthat's all right that's for
another one well I mean that I Ithink this is more about just
(50:16):
introducing you to um theatmosphere as my brother for the
mother because I don't wantpeople to hate you right away no
I appreciate you doing thisthough um thank you so much I
love well thank you forinterviewing me I I hope it was
(50:37):
uh somewhat productive I hopeyou get I hope it's do I have to
give you I don't ever rememberyou needing like a confidence
booster no I don't need aconfidence booster are you just
tired no I'm not tired becauseyou had to get up so early to do
the interview and oh I got upmy usual time to go take the
kids I get up at 6 15 you knowthat's my normal time when I
(51:01):
have the kids I get up at 6 15 Imake them breakfast and then um
we're out the door by 7 15 7 30and I drive them all the way to
the all the way to hell rightby the time I get back it's
usually like 8 40 8 45 almostnine o'clock after dropping them
off so my morning is from sixto nine I got a three hour shift
(51:24):
driving those and I'm gonnadelete all of that because most
people can be like bitch pleaseit's true um so I am so grateful
that you came on the show Iappreciate you Billy so much and
remember everyone at the end ofthe day it really is all about
the joy see you next time byeeveryone thank you bye bye so
(51:46):
fake I love it thanks forstopping by all about the joy be
better and stay beautiful folkshave a sweet day
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.