What is Art, Culture, and Spirituality? Insights from Kendrick Lamar’s Super Bowl Show

Can a Super Bowl halftime show spark a profound conversation about art, culture, and spirituality? Join us as we unpack the layers of Kendrick Lamar's performance, where Maurio shares a touching story about how he helped his mother appreciate the deeper meanings behind the spectacle. From Rick's initial ambivalence, to Alma's admiration for Kendrick's artistic brilliance, we reflect on how the show challenges traditional perspectives and invites us to rethink the definition of art. Through this exploration, we highlight the importance of embracing diverse expressions in mainstream entertainment.

We venture into the dynamic interplay between art and politics, exploring how filmmakers from different eras convey powerful narratives. Our discussion moves from the storytelling styles of legends like Scorsese and Coppola to the impactful messages found in modern superhero films like "Black Panther." We examine the cultural legacy of artists like Prince and the shifting perceptions of their work over time. Through these conversations, we celebrate the transformative power of art in provoking thought and evoking emotion, regardless of one's cultural background.

The episode rounds off with a heartfelt exploration of spirituality, weaving together personal stories of faith, music, and artistic influence from childhood. We ponder the universal appeal of spiritual music and the artistry of preachers whose words inspire introspection. Sharing personal anecdotes, we emphasize the inclusivity of love and kindness as central tenets of faith, inviting listeners to appreciate diverse expressions of spirituality. Whether through prayer, gospel music, or childhood encounters with art, we recognize the profound impact these experiences have on our lives and the communities they foster.

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Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.

Episode Transcript

Carmen Lezeth (00:04):
Hi everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
Welcome Alma, mario I'm sorryI'm giggling and Rick, how are
you guys doing tonight?

Maurio Dawson (00:15):
Good, good, good to see you.

Carmen Lezeth (00:17):
So I sent you guys the thing I wanted to talk
about.
I really want to talk about artand get your ideas on art, but
we're doing the jump off becauseof the Kendrick Lamar halftime
show at the Super Bowl.
I know there's been a lot ofanalysis over it, so I don't
know if we need to dive deepback into all that.

(00:38):
But there's a lot of symbolism,a lot of haters out there, a
lot of people who didn't get it.
I wanted to get your initialfeelings on it first, and maybe
I'd start with Mario, then we'llgo to Rick and then to Alma.

Maurio Dawson (00:51):
Well, they're not like us.
So that's my first comment.

Carmen Lezeth (00:56):
And thank you for joining the show.
We appreciate you.
Hope to see you next week.

Maurio Dawson (01:02):
Have a good week.

Rick Costa (01:03):
Go ahead.

Maurio Dawson (01:06):
No to me.
I got it, you know I enjoyed it.
I know the songs, so it waseasy for me.
It was very cool.
It actually opened up aconversation for my mother who
is, you know, an older woman whodoes not like rap.
So her and her friends theychecked out.

(01:27):
She's like I don't want to hearthat.
She's like all I hear was la,la la la la.
She's like I didn't understandanything.
I said, okay, mom, let me breakit down to you.
So we had a very in-depthconversation about some of the
stuff that was happening and shesaid you know what?
Know, mario, thank you forexplaining it to me.
She said because it gave herthe opportunity to go back and

(01:50):
talk to her friends who werejust so, just opposed to the rap
of it all and not into the show.
But then once I explained it,she loved it, she went back and
watched it, she appreciated itfor what it was and she took the
time to really listen and shegot it and it opened up her eyes
to a lot of subtext that was inthe show and I thought it was

(02:14):
an amazing show, without sayingtoo much.

Carmen Lezeth (02:19):
Rick, your thoughts.

Rick Costa (02:21):
Yeah, I turned on Tubi when I figured it was going
to be on and it was funnybecause all of a sudden I got a
text from Melanie.
It's on now.
I figured it was going to be onand it was funny because all of
a sudden I got a text fromMelanie.
It's on now.
I didn't ask her to we loveMelanie.
Shout out to Melanie yeah, Iwatched it and was I 100%
focused.
I didn't go bye because youknow I was like, like I wasn't,

(02:42):
but I definitely didn't think itwas boring at all.
It was entertaining.
You know it was entertaining.
All the different dancing andeverything.
I don't really know the songsthat much, little bits and
pieces here, that kind of soundsfamiliar Far, far, far far.
I heard that before, that'sfrom Luther.
Yeah, it was entertaining, butbecause I wasn't fully paying

(03:03):
attention to it, I didn'trealize we were supposed to get
edumacated too, like oh, yeah,you know.
Yeah, um, samuel jackson.
I was like, okay, that's whatmade me think okay, this is not
just a performance, because,wait, he's saying something.
So that's what made me think,okay, you're not just yay, nice
job, no, they're sayingsomething.
So yeah, it was, it was, but itwas entertaining too, it was

(03:26):
fun, it wasn't boring.
I've seen some that were likeooh, but this one was
entertaining, it was good.

Carmen Lezeth (03:32):
Okay, go ahead, girl.
I know it's bubbling inside Goahead.

Alma Dawson (03:38):
I enjoyed every aspect of it.
I enjoyed the art of it, themusic, the symbolism, going and
rewatching and catching thestuff that I didn't catch the
first time.
You know the first run aroundjust seeing all of the
sensationalist part of it, butthen going back and actually
catching all of the littlenuances and it was awesome.

(04:01):
It was really a very he's agenius, honestly he really is
just in the ways that he layeredit.
If you want to just surface,you could just have the surface,
but if you want to go deeper,there's a lot of layers to it.
So it was awesome.

Maurio Dawson (04:16):
That's why he's a Pulitzer Prize winner.

Carmen Lezeth (04:19):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, he won a Pulitzer.
Yeah, he won a.

Maurio Dawson (04:23):
Pulitzer yeah for sure.

Carmen Lezeth (04:25):
I think that's where I got upset with so many
people.
I lashed out a little bit.
I think this is the first timeI have seen on a public stage
white people not being centered,and what I mean by that,
because I know that's a reallyweird concept to understand.
It's like they were not thefocus at all and I think that's

(04:51):
what disturbed people.
I can't explain enough how manytimes in my life, in all of our
lives, I'm sure we have walkedinto a room I can talk about,
when I was dancing, performing.
But let me go to even college,walking into a biology class of
300 people my freshman year, andthere is not one other person

(05:12):
of color, you know.
And always being that personthat walks into a place where
you are the odd person out, andit was interesting how I'm just
speaking for me.
I mean I was kidding with afriend of mine the other day.
I'm like I'm speaking for allblack people, I'm just speaking
for me.

(05:39):
Oh Lord, to the circumstance Iwas in and have to find my way
in it, appreciate it, or keep mymouth shut or try to understand
it or research it.
You do all these things as aperson of color, trying to
understand the circumstanceyou're in, but what happened
here is people just startedlashing out in a really negative

(06:04):
, nasty way that it's not art,that it should never be on
football halftime, all thesehorrible things, and it just
incensed me and I startedthinking about how do we
determine what art is?
I guess that's my big questionfor all of you.
How do you determine, or do youever determine, what art is?
And I guess that's my bigquestion for all of you how do

(06:25):
you determine, or do you everdetermine what art is and is not
is maybe the first question.

Maurio Dawson (06:31):
I think art is thought provoking.
Anything that's going to createa thought or make you go deeper
into yourself about what you'refeeling.
If it evokes an emotion or avisceral response, it's art.
Or if you have questions, ifyou say what does that mean?
It's art because it provokesconversation and it gives you

(06:56):
more insight into, becausesometimes the artist is very
upfront about what they'resaying, but then other artists
let you conceptualize it forwhat you want it to be.
Do you really mean that this?

Carmen Lezeth (07:07):
was art, do we?
I don't know, rick, I'm notsure.

Maurio Dawson (07:10):
I do.

Carmen Lezeth (07:10):
I'm wondering Rick.

Alma Dawson (07:11):
Did you?

Carmen Lezeth (07:11):
mean that this was a piece of art.

Maurio Dawson (07:13):
Absolutely, absolutely, from the symbolism
to the American flag with allBlack people, based on the fact
that he's saying that a lot ofAmerica was built on the slaves,
on the backs of Black people,on the backs of slaves.
Now, a lot of people don't likethat statement and they don't
like that comment.

Carmen Lezeth (07:33):
Okay, but that's not a statement or a comment.
That's a fact, it is a fact youmay not like the truth.

Maurio Dawson (07:40):
Yeah, it's the truth.
But the thing is, everyonewants to be mad.
Stay mad, that's okay.

Carmen Lezeth (07:47):
Can I just get a?
I just want to.
And, rick, I'm sorry to put youon the spot, but I don't know
and I don't want to just assume.
Do you feel this was art?

Rick Costa (07:56):
Yeah, to me music is art, dancing is art.

Carmen Lezeth (08:00):
Even if it doesn't speak to you
specifically.

Rick Costa (08:04):
Doesn't matter.
To me, art is if you can lookat whatever it is and have
multiple interpretations, that'sprobably art.

Carmen Lezeth (08:14):
Okay, I just didn't want to assume that he
felt the same way.
Okay, I'm sorry.

Rick Costa (08:19):
That's a lot of work .
That's a lot of work.
A lot of people, a lot oforganization, choreography, yeah
, to put that together, and eventhe camera work everything.
So that's all.

Carmen Lezeth (08:29):
I think, even like what Alma was saying was
just.
I don't want to put words inAlma's mouth or whatever, but I
feel like there's this part ofhim you can watch just the
surface part and people weresaying like I don't understand.
I don't understand.
You know what?
Google is free, and if youdon't understand rap, it's
because you're not used to therhythm of that sound.

(08:51):
You know, it's interesting howthese same people can understand
Eminem, or they can understandMacklemore, but for some reason
they can't understand KendrickLamar.
You know what I'm saying?
I am throwing the race card incard in there.
It's like why are you able todefend and fight about eminem
but you can't understandkendrick lamar I?
You need to think about that.

(09:13):
You know what I mean, and it'sfor me, art is that there there
are pieces of art that I thinksuck horribly, but you know what
?
I keep that inside.

Alma Dawson (09:22):
I just keep my heart shut.
But you know, it's like there'sa sweatshirt that mario has and
it says I'm not for everyone.
Every piece of art is not foreveryone in it, but even if it
evokes anger or it evokessadness, whatever it evokes, it
still made you feel something,whether you like the way that it

(09:44):
made you feel or not, whetheryou like whatever the artist
portraying or what it's saying.
That's the point.
It's not for every artist,every genre is not for everyone,
but art still exists.
It's just like y'all weresaying it's thought provoking,
it's meant to evoke feelings,whether it's something visual,

(10:08):
something auditory or somethingthat you're reading, some five
words on the page can evokefeelings.

Carmen Lezeth (10:14):
That's right I had a little back and forth with
Chris.
We all love Chris and I was madbecause he started writing on
Facebook Prince is the bestSuper Bowl Prince and I was like
you're missing the point.
This is not a comparison betweenPrince and Mr Lamar.
And look, I just want to bevery clear about something I am

(10:38):
now a huge Kendrick Lamar fan.
Welcome to the family.
No, no, but this is what I'msaying.
I liked him.
I listened to family.
No, no, but this is what I'msaying.
I liked him, I listened to him,I knew a few songs.
I did not know the whole Drakepart until recently like during
the Kamala Harris rallies iswhen I started understanding
more about the Drake thing.
Because there was that youngwhite boy I hate to say it that

(11:01):
way, but there was that youngman who was white, who worked
for the Kamala Harris campaignand they featured him.
Do you remember that?
Because he was singing everyword of Not Like Us.
I was like, who is this man?
And he did all these interviewsand I was like, what is this
Drake stuff?
And that's when I startedgetting more into.

(11:21):
Oh, I didn't know, I had noidea.
So I'm not trying to come acrosslike you have to be some mega
fan of Kendrick Lamar tounderstand.
You need to be like if anything, I want white people and I'm
going to say it this way I knowI'm going to get a lot of
backlash for this.
White people need to startbeing a little bit more
open-minded.
That everything, like Alma said, is not for them.

(11:42):
You know what I mean.
And, by the way, the halftimeshow I saw this comment
everywhere.
Oh my God, I don't know if youguys saw this comments
everywhere.
The halftime show is foreveryone.
It should be something we allunderstand, Really, Because 54%
of the NFL is black.
So I'm confused where you thinkthis is for you.

(12:03):
Well, that's a differentconversation that's a whole
different conversation, but awhole different conversation.

Maurio Dawson (12:08):
But yeah, I think , since rock nation has taken
over, I think it versus pepsi orthe other major concerts is
rock nation is the company ownedby jay-z, so he's now he's the
actual official promoter for theNFL.
He's been the promoter.

Carmen Lezeth (12:25):
Oh, I had no idea .

Maurio Dawson (12:27):
Yeah, he's been the official promoter.
He and Jesse Collins havepicked the halftime shows for
the last what five years now?
So, although the last fivehalftime shows have been through
Roc Nation, which is not onlyfor his production, it's a
production company, it's arecord company, it's a fashion
label.
Right, that's a record company,it's a fashion label.

Carmen Lezeth (12:46):
Right, that's so interesting.

Rick Costa (12:48):
One thing though oh go ahead, rick People saying can
there be subtitles?
I was like why do you needsubtitles?
Because I don't understand aword they're saying I'm like I
understand everything he'ssaying.
What's the problem?
It's called closed caption.

Carmen Lezeth (13:02):
You could do closed caption, you could go
again.
I said this on tiktok.
I remember going to my firstballet with rudolf nuriev, and
it was don quixote.
I did not understand a mothereffing thing, not one thing, but
I was forced to go.
I'm glad I went because what itdid, even though I left, and it

(13:24):
didn't make me like, oh my God,I love ballet and Rudolph
Derriff that's not what happened, but what did happen was it
made me realize there's a biggerworld out there than only the
stuff I know.
Yes, and it made me absorb theidea of art and going to museums
and going to the orchestra.

Alma Dawson (13:45):
I'm having a tough time today speaking of art and
going to museums and going tothe orchestra orchestra.
I'm having a tough time todayspeaking, but I want to say like
, even though we'reconcentrating just on the
halftime, the pre-show and allof that was really very
well-rounded.
Harry Connick Jr and Lady Gagaand just all of the different
pre-shows that were on as well,were really well-rounded in my

(14:08):
opinion.
But when you say well-rounded,are we talking about?
Like I said, Harry Connick Jrwas one of the artists that was
up there.

Maurio Dawson (14:16):
He's from there, yeah, but he's from there.

Alma Dawson (14:21):
But what I'm saying is it wasn't just only Black
artists from Northern beingfeatured.

Carmen Lezeth (14:27):
Here's what I'm going to push back, though.
Why would it matter, right?

Maurio Dawson (14:31):
It shouldn't matter.
They gave them a bone too.

Carmen Lezeth (14:35):
Every artist is white in every art.
You know what I mean.
I am so tired, as a woman ofcolor, making it comfortable for
white people to feelcomfortable, for you know what
I'm saying.
Like, I know what you're saying.
It was well-rounded, but it'snever been well-rounded all the
time for the rest of our lives.
Oh, no, never, of course, notNever, and I don't want to

(14:56):
appease it, I do want to switchit a little bit, but it's the
same thing, because I wastalking about Marvel movies,
cause it's again same thing,because I was talking about
Marvel movies, because it'sagain.
It's this idea of what is art,and I just want to mention a
couple things.
So, back in 2019, and it waswhen the movie Captain Marvel
came out Martin Scorsese andFrancis Ford Coppola who, if

(15:19):
people are listening, don't knowwho they are, I would be
shocked but huge directors.
Martin Scorsese is known forGoodfellas and the Irishman and
what else I don't even know.

Maurio Dawson (15:30):
A lot of Leo DiCaprio movies.

Carmen Lezeth (15:32):
And Francis Ford Coppola, of course, the
Godfather Acopolis Coppola.

Maurio Dawson (15:39):
No.

Carmen Lezeth (15:39):
Apocalypse Now, francis Ford Coppola?
Apocalypse Now, is that how yousay it?
Yeah, yeah, I don't know I'mhaving issues.
Okay, I swear to God there'swater in here.
So, back in 2019, martinScorsese said about Marvel
movies and this pissed me off,cause, again, it's what is the

(16:00):
definition of art?
He said I don't see them.
I tried, you know, but that'snot cinema.
Honestly, the closest I canthink of them as well, made as
they are, with actors doing thebest they can under the
circumstances is theme.
It isn't the cinema of humanbeings trying to convey
emotional, psychologicalexperiences to another human

(16:23):
being.
Fuck you, martin Scorsese.
Let me quote Francis FordCoppola.
I lost so much respect forthese two men.
Now I'm going to quote FrancisFord Coppola.
So Francis Ford Coppola saidwell, you know, because of the
lack of risk in the production.
Martin Scorsese says that theMarvel picture is not cinema.
He's right, because we expectto learn something from cinema.

(16:45):
We expect to gain someenlightenment, some knowledge,
some inspirations.
Arguably, I don't know thatanyone gets anything out of
seeing the same movie over andover again, which is Marvel
movies, a thing that has no riskto it.
I've said before, making a filmwithout risk is like making a
baby without sex.

(17:06):
That was Francis Ford Coppolafilm.
Director of the Godfather andApocalypse.

Alma Dawson (17:14):
Now, like in other movies, but just throwing that
out there to you guys showstheir age, um, and I think that
they're just maybe I don't wantto say they're not visionaries,
because that's not true, theyare, they were in their time,
but exactly, but I think thatthey're not able to see the

(17:36):
value in the marble movies, notbecause there isn't any, but
just because they're not able to.
And I'm going to attribute itto their generation, to their
age, where their generation is,like every film, everything had
to have a message.
Because of the times, becauseof the times that they were
coming up in, that they wereadulting.

Carmen Lezeth (17:57):
I think Marvel movies all have a message.

Alma Dawson (18:00):
I agree with you.

Carmen Lezeth (18:02):
They all have a message.
I can see where you're goingwith this to try to give them a
pass.
But here's the thing that wemay not remember, because you
know I did research on this.
That's why I'm so angry withthem.
When they came out with theirmovies both of them they got so
much flack for the mafia-esque,the violence, the whatever.
So again you would think theywould be more sensitive, more

(18:24):
understanding of what art is,even if they don't understand it
or like it.

Maurio Dawson (18:30):
I think they're telling their stories from their
point of view.
You have to remember Scorsesehe's a New Yorker, like he's the
mob, the mafia.
That's all a part of his timewhen he was, very prevalent.
That was his focus.
That's what he enjoyed studying.
That's what he enjoyed writing.
That's all a part of his timewhen he would.
That was very prevalent.
That was his focus.
That's what he enjoyed studying.
That's what he enjoyed writing.
That's all great, but you havea new era of artists, of young

(18:53):
directors and storytellers whowant to sell different stories.
I think comic books are stillstories, marvel are there's
still.
It's still storytelling.
Oh, I agree it's stillstorytelling.
Oh.

Alma Dawson (19:03):
I agree.

Maurio Dawson (19:04):
So the thing is, I respectfully have several
seats and do you over there andtake your time and produce what
it is that you love and you willhave.
Your audience will come to you,but everyone has a space out
here for what they love and youcan't tell me that even the

(19:29):
storytelling of the battles,even with Black Panther, and the
subtext that was going onthrough all of that film, that
was artistry, not just visually,but historically.
It was thought-provoking.
You asked questions and it tookyou back to history.
It was all great.
So, yeah, everything has astory.

(19:50):
Marvel definitely has a placein art, not just visually
storytelling.
I was all great.
So, yeah, everything has astory.
Marvel definitely has a placein art, not just visually
storytelling.
I got an issue with FrancisFord Coppola.

Rick Costa (19:58):
Right, that was the second one.
He says you didn't learnnothing.
I'm like listen.
When I watched Deadpool andWolverine, I didn't learn
nothing either, but I laughed mybutt off the whole break
Entertained.
I enjoyed it.
I would watch it again.
I don't have to learn something.
That's your opinion.
Yeah, you can't tell me that Ishouldn't like something because

(20:20):
you don't like it.
That's ridiculous.
It's the whole thing I said along time ago when somebody said
god don't like this kind ofmusic.
No, you don't like that kind ofmusic.
You don't like this kind ofmusic.
No, you don't like that kind ofmusic.

Maurio Dawson (20:32):
You don't speak for God, right, right, that's it
.

Carmen Lezeth (20:34):
I think it's interesting because I think
Marvel movies I've said this amillion times I have not felt
the feeling I felt when Iwatched Endgame.
I hadn't felt that in a theater, when you're with people, that
camaraderie, that part know,like that part where robert
downey jr's character um, just,I am iron man, like in it and

(20:59):
you know because of the moviesfrom before the first movie,
when he ends it, you knowbecause you have followed the
trajectory of it yeah, and itbreaks your heart because he's
gonna to die and he dies.

Maurio Dawson (21:12):
Spoiler alert for those who haven't watched it.

Carmen Lezeth (21:13):
Oh yeah, right.

Rick Costa (21:16):
I literally just saw somebody today that they did
like a reaction video and thisgirl had never watched it and
she was like he was telling thestory, like she cried several
times, but then, right beforeIron man dies, she started
yelling wait, he ain't going todie, is he?

Carmen Lezeth (21:34):
He dies, he dies.
Sorry, spoiler alert.
Look at this point.
If you haven't seen it, I can'thelp you.
It's an old movie now.
But that's my point is like,again, it's this weird.
I don't know if it's elitism,because I don't know if it's
that, but I don't know how youdon't learn from your own
experience.
And that's what angers me aboutthese two men.
They had such a hard time whenthey started their careers,

(21:57):
doing the movies that they loved, that were so violent, so
painful.
You know what I mean thatpeople were like oh my god, no,
like yeah, and people weredismissing it or whatever.
And then, you know, it's kindof that thing too, like I, I got
, I didn't get mad at Chris.
I love Chris, he wants to be onthe show again and you know
Chris Gales, I'm talking about.

(22:19):
I think he's an amazing personand I love him and everything,
but it's the same thing.
Everybody elevates Prince nowbecause he's dead, but we forget
that people didn't like Prince.
People talked about Prince.
They were like he's gay, he'sandrogynous, he's too female,
he's so weird.
People did not.
I don't care how much youthought he was a genius.

(22:40):
It's weird how we revise ourthought process when someone
passes away.

Maurio Dawson (22:46):
Well, some of us.

Carmen Lezeth (22:48):
You know what?
I apologize.
You're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right BecauseI was in love with that man.
I don't know what it was.

Maurio Dawson (22:57):
I've been rocking with him since 1978, 1979.

Carmen Lezeth (23:01):
He was the only man that was like what 5'4"?
I think he was 5'4".

Maurio Dawson (23:05):
Yeah.

Carmen Lezeth (23:06):
And he attracted both men and women and we don't
understand why we don't.
I don't understand why I was soattracted to that beautiful man
.

Rick Costa (23:14):
I remember my pastor saying cause again, he's a
pastor, so he's done a lot offunerals he goes.
It never ceases to amaze me how, all of a sudden no matter how
down dirty dog you are everybodywhen they die is a good person.

Maurio Dawson (23:28):
Yeah.

Carmen Lezeth (23:30):
Well, let me just say this, though, just to back
that up though Prince was agenius from day one for his fan
base that knew that even some ofus who are clouded by our love,
but his music I think the thingI remember about Prince's music
so much was that I rememberdancing in the clubs and I was
underage.

(23:50):
But I was in the clubs dancingon stages, and that music was
funky, grinding, awesome, great.
And I remember I was like, oh,I'm doing something so bad, not
compared to the other people whoare out there doing drugs.
I was just dancing, but that'swhat I remember of my Prince
life back in the day.

Maurio Dawson (24:11):
I remember dancing to erotic city when I
didn't know what I was dancingto.
Come on now.

Carmen Lezeth (24:16):
Me neither.
My mother was like do you knowwhat he's singing?
And my whole creamy thighs andeverything my creamy thighs.

Maurio Dawson (24:23):
No, I was growing , I was singing a lot of the
cream.
I knew what I was singing then.
Wow.
Yeah, I didn't know what I wassaying no, I knew what I was
saying when I was saying greenthis little Latina girl did not
know what she was singing, shejust knew it sounded good.

Alma Dawson (24:34):
That's it.

Rick Costa (24:37):
It's just like now, with the churches having the
nerve to sing Like a Prayer fromMadonna.
I'm like, do you?

Maurio Dawson (24:44):
even know what you're singing.
Come on now, really.

Carmen Lezeth (24:49):
I don't know how they're justifying that, but
they've ran with it.
Let's use the Googler pleaseGoogler I like that.

Maurio Dawson (24:56):
She's quoting my mother, because that's what my
mother said.

Carmen Lezeth (24:58):
The Googler I'm going to use that I love that oh
my.

Maurio Dawson (25:02):
God.

Rick Costa (25:03):
I'm going to use the Googler.
There's a funny video with anItalian lady.
They're trying to teach her tosay hey, Google, and she's like
okay, try it, try it, Google,google.

Carmen Lezeth (25:16):
The thing is, you have to say the hey first,
right.

Rick Costa (25:19):
Right.

Carmen Lezeth (25:20):
Mm-hmm.
So funny Can you think of anexample where art well and this
might be too much, I don't know.
I don't know.
This is a goofy question, but Iwas just wondering if you can
think of a time when art turnsinto a political message or a
purpose.
Of course, I think the KendrickLamar thing is a great example

(25:42):
of how social message, but I waswondering I couldn't think of
other pieces of art that do that, but there must be so many of
them.
I mean, martin Luther King'sspeech became that right, that
beautiful.
I have a dream speech, but Icouldn't remember other people.

Maurio Dawson (25:59):
You know, one that comes to the front.

Carmen Lezeth (26:02):
Rhythm Nation Janet Jack.
Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Maurio Dawson (26:07):
Just on a political side.
I'm thinking about Obama'scampaign, when they created the
posters, the tricolor postersthat said hope.
Those are beautiful pieces ofart, right?
Yes and so, but it was also apolitical statement.
It was.
He was that, those three colors, that red, white and blue.

(26:27):
I still see it vividly in myhead.
I'm looking at the visualposters.
You saw him everywhere.
He had hope.
That was the main one, right?
that was the main one that's onethat definitely comes to my
brain right away.
What's the other man, theLatino man?
He has a star, he's everywhere.

Alma Dawson (26:49):
Che Guevara that's great, of course.

Carmen Lezeth (26:52):
Oh, that's great, of course, you're right.
What?

Maurio Dawson (26:55):
was I thinking.

Carmen Lezeth (26:56):
You know what I was going down the whole rabbit
hole of trying to think ofmusicians, right.

Alma Dawson (27:01):
I have a music one, nina Simone, strange Fruit.

Carmen Lezeth (27:07):
Oh.

Alma Dawson (27:08):
Yeah, and if you don't know about Strange Fruit.

Maurio Dawson (27:10):
Use the Googler it's heavy and then.

Alma Dawson (27:14):
Maya Angelou a lot of her poetry Phila Rai.
Phenomenal Woman, phila Rai isa good one, rick do you have any
to share.

Carmen Lezeth (27:27):
I know from the religious point of view it would
probably be more religious-y asopposed to politically the only
thing I can think of is not bemore religious-y as opposed to
politically.

Rick Costa (27:35):
The only thing I can think of is not a nice one.

Carmen Lezeth (27:37):
I don't want to say it.
What are you going to?

Rick Costa (27:38):
say the redhead woman comedian.
That didn't she do like a Kathy, oh Kathy.

Carmen Lezeth (27:44):
Griffin right.
She cut off the head ofsomething and said it was
somebody.
Well, that's where art goeswrong, I mean okay.
So that's interesting becausefor some people they thought
that was justified and madesense.
That's a great point, a lot ofus again just speaking for
myself but I thought that was alittle crass for me and

(28:06):
inappropriate and so, eventhough I respect her viewpoint
and I thought it was wrong forher to lose she lost her CNN,
she lost a lot of work,everything.
Yeah, she lost a lot of stuff,because she was doing like the
CNN New Year's Eve thing.
That's when I remember her most, with Anderson Cooper or
something.

Maurio Dawson (28:23):
She did a reality show also.
Oh, she did.
Yeah, it was called the D-List.
Yeah, it was on ETV.
What's the D-List?
Yeah?

Carmen Lezeth (28:30):
it was on ETV.
What's the D-List?

Maurio Dawson (28:32):
That was the name of her show.
She called herself a D-Listartist.

Rick Costa (28:37):
Oh my God, that's hilarious yeah.

Alma Dawson (28:40):
It was funny.
She had her mom on there too,it was funny.

Maurio Dawson (28:45):
Yeah, she lost all of that.
But then she also sufferedcancer at the same time and lost
her voice, and her voice is notthe same.

Carmen Lezeth (28:57):
But she's okay.
Now though, right, she's betternow.

Maurio Dawson (28:59):
Yes, but that goes into.
Some comedians are artists.

Carmen Lezeth (29:05):
Oh, absolutely.

Maurio Dawson (29:06):
Think about it.
We're talking about KathyGriffin being.
She's a comedian, but she'salso Using art.
That went too far For somepeople.
But then if you look at ADMurphy, who is a genius, his,
his Acting, his stand up Is justbar none.
You know, it still holds up.

(29:27):
Delirious, still holds up.

Carmen Lezeth (29:29):
Yes, it does.

Maurio Dawson (29:31):
If it's something that still stands the test of
time and you can still go backto it and reference it, it's art
I would say comedians are art.

Carmen Lezeth (29:39):
I have never thought of it that way, mario.
But when you just said thatcomedians take a big risk
because they go up there, talkabout religion, politics,
everything and they're trying tomake you laugh, but but they're
making that undercut statement,I never thought about it that
way.
But I would absolutely saythat's art, I agree.

Maurio Dawson (29:59):
It's an art form, because everybody can't do it,
everyone can't paint, everyonecan't sing, so it's definitely
an art form.

Carmen Lezeth (30:08):
Absolutely I feel bad about Kathy Griffin.
I mean, I'll be honest with you, I never really liked her
myself, like she's not my kindof flavor.
And what I mean by that is Idon't like kind of the slappy,
sticky type of, you know, likethe Jim Carrey.
I respect Jim Carrey but Idon't want to watch him.
You know what I mean.
I don't want to watch the kindof that kind of thing, like

(30:35):
Steve Martin, I respect him.

Alma Dawson (30:36):
I don't want to watch that kind of thing.
Like steve martin, I respecthim.

Carmen Lezeth (30:38):
I don't want to watch that kind of.
Does that make sense, likewhatever?
Well, back in the day, yeah,like I like, like I was trying
to think oh, there's this newguy.
I forget his name, he's so good.
He's a young black man, oh mygod, I don't know what his name,
but he's so good.
But.

Maurio Dawson (30:47):
I like people.
Is he Aaron Pierre?

Carmen Lezeth (30:49):
What.

Maurio Dawson (30:50):
Is he Aaron Pierre?

Carmen Lezeth (30:52):
No, I don't think so.

Maurio Dawson (30:54):
What I'm just?
I'm just messing with you.
Not yet.
He's a Googler, he's abeautiful man we love him, he's
an actor, the Googler.

Carmen Lezeth (31:00):
Google you know okay, I can find out who this
guy is because I follow him nowon YouTube.
Chris Rock, to me, ishysterically funny I'm trying to
think of, if you listen to oldschool Richard Pryor funny as
all you know.
George Carlin, I could take.
I could you know and I knowpeople get upset when I say this

(31:22):
about George Carlin I some ofthe stuff he says I think he's
wrong.
I just think he's wrong, youknow, and.
But people, no matter what.
Again I'm going to get backlashfor so many things on this
episode, but I'm not a big.
Garland fan.
I don't think he's right allthe time.

Alma Dawson (31:37):
But it's thought provoking and that's the whole
point.
Sensationalist, it's thoughtprovoking.
And then you were.
You touched on the religionthing To me, for the religion
part of it.
Some preachers are artists, theway that they're able to
deliver the word, the way thatthey're able to make you think
about God's word and beinsightful.

(31:57):
It can be anyone.
You can go to any church.
I really am very universal asto who I listen to.
If they have a good word topreach and I'm learning from
them and they're making me wantto go to my Bible and read it,
that's to me as someone who youknow.
I love that because I'm alwaysseeking to learn?

Carmen Lezeth (32:18):
Is it the oratory skills?

Alma Dawson (32:18):
Is it the oratory skills.

Maurio Dawson (32:20):
Yes, the rise and the fall.

Alma Dawson (32:24):
Yes, and all of that also is the music, the
worship part for me.
The music, that is a very bigcomponent for me.
I can go somewhere and theyhave great worship that takes me
to a place where I feel likeI'm closer to heaven.
I'll say it that way, so eventhat, even in the lyrics of the

(32:47):
music, and it doesn't have to benecessarily gospel, no, I
appreciate you saying thisbecause it's so funny, because I
was like oh, but here's whatI'll say.

Carmen Lezeth (32:57):
I know that whenever I listen to, jesus
loves me, when whitney houston'ssinging it, or sissy houston or
whatever I am like, or if I'mlistening to anything from
sister act two, I'm sorry I'mbeing very ghetto, but I'm like.
But you, I'm sorry, I'm sorryFor the people who are not

(33:17):
religious, but I think you'reright because you're listening
to music that moves you andtakes you somewhere.
And it makes you and I havealways said this takes you
somewhere and it makes you and Ihave always said this I am
jealous of people, especiallythe women, who go to church on
Sunday and they all dressed upand they you know, and and the

(33:40):
belief and the love and thecommitment, and I think you're
right.

Alma Dawson (33:44):
It there's an art to that.
There is an art, yes, yeah, butI'm also of the belief that
church isn't just the four walls, so you don't have to be in a
church to practice the kindnessand to practice the love that
God tells us to practice witheveryone.
It's just been all in you howyou wish to express yourself and

(34:07):
your love and your faith withothers.
But, like I said, yeah, there'sdefinitely an art form in that,
in practicing.

Carmen Lezeth (34:14):
Okay, I'm going to throw this out at you and
Rick Mario, you too, but becauseI think I already know what
you're going to say.
That's why I think I know Icould be wrong.
But so is it okay that thereare atheists and agnostics in
your world or in this world thatyou can appreciate?

(34:35):
If they don't, they might seewhat you think about art, but
may not consider that art orsomething they believe in.

Alma Dawson (34:47):
I'm always of the thought that I'm never going to
force my beliefs or my thoughtson anyone else.
I can only lead by example orshow you by how I live my life
and how I treat others or how Iyou know, because it's always
it's examine me, examine my life, and if you can take something

(35:10):
from that, then that's what youknow.
I feel like that's what myfaith calls me to do.
I have to lead a life that canbe exemplary or where someone
can find some light and you'reokay, though you embrace
agnostics and atheists.

Carmen Lezeth (35:25):
I love them too.

Alma Dawson (35:26):
God says love everyone.
God says to love everyone andpray for everyone.
Whether they believe in theprayer that I'm believing, it
doesn't matter.
I believe in the prayer thatI'm saying for you, for your
safety, for your health, foryour deliverance.
I believe.

Carmen Lezeth (35:40):
How do you deal with?
And, rick, I want you to chimein too.
Mario, you can chime in too.
I'm sorry, but this isfascinating that we've gone.
This I was not.
This is people.

Alma Dawson (35:49):
This is not on the list and I'm going to tell you,
even prayer can be an art form.
Some people can pray and youfeel nothing.
It's a flat line.
Other people can pray and theymove you.

Carmen Lezeth (35:59):
Prayer changes things.
Do you get offended if peopleare like I don't need you to
pray for me because I don'tbelieve in that?

Alma Dawson (36:07):
No, I feel like no, because I'm going to pray no
matter what.
I'm not the person who's goingto say oh, let me.
You know, some people come inand say I'm going to lay my
hands on you and I'm not thattype.
If I see a need, I will.
I will pray for them.

Carmen Lezeth (36:25):
They don't need to know that I'm praying because
Rick on your show sorry, rickCosta has a show every day at 3
pm, monday through Friday.
Sunday through Friday at 3 pmPacific time.
Pacific time See Okay Saturdaysat 11 Eastern 1130 Eastern 1130

(36:49):
, eastern 830.
Your time.
Go to rickcostacom to check itout.
Okay, so I just gave you alittle plug there and now I'm
going to beat you up.

Maurio Dawson (36:56):
So here, no, we're not going to beat you up.
No, we're not going to beat youup.

Carmen Lezeth (37:01):
I love Rick.
I'm just kidding.
What are your thoughts on whatwe're talking about?
What are your thoughts?

Rick Costa (37:07):
I was just thinking about this guy that has come up
on my YouTube in a while.
I guess the algorithm he hiddenit.
But this guy that's not aChristian.
I don't know if he's an atheist, but he's definitely not a
Christian.
But he's a musician.
But he'll listen to Christiansongs and say, wow, that was
amazing, wow, the lyrics weregood, wow, that was moving.
Sometimes I'd be like yo, thatmade me cry.
Like you know, it's doesn'tmatter can still be affected by

(37:30):
music.
I've always said two plus twois four.
No matter what anybody who saysit, it's still the truth.

Carmen Lezeth (37:37):
But if somebody says to you I don't want you to
pray for me.
I don't believe in that stuff.
Does that bother you?
How does that make you feel?
Or what does that do to you asa Christian, If someone is an
atheist and agnostic and you tryto comfort them by saying I'm
going to pray for you?

Rick Costa (37:56):
It doesn't matter what they say.
They can't make me do nothing,so I'm still going to do it
anyway.
Probably won't do it evenharder now, because you said
that, right, I'm not going tosay it to their faith.
I'm not going to say it totheir faith, I'm going to
respect them.
No, yeah.

Carmen Lezeth (38:09):
I think that's an interesting thing, because I
think what I have I havedefinitely moved away from
Catholicism and Christianity ina huge way.
There's no question about it,and I can't say that I'm an
atheist by any means.
I do believe in somethingbigger, but I am I'm not sure
I'm agnostic.
I don't know where I'm at.
I have my issues with God.

(38:30):
I keep being like if there's aGod, you need to.
I need some proof now, becausethis is not working.
Everything that I'm asking foris not working.
And then my time, we now atlike I'm in my fifties.
We still having the sameconversation my Lord, you need
to move some mountains here, butI'm just kidding, but I'm not.
In a way, I feel like I'vereally moved away from the

(38:51):
thought process of a God.
I do love gospel music.
I do love music that moves me,and so it doesn't almost matter
sometimes If you're talkingabout hurting and killing people
.
Sometimes I hear lyrics thatthrow me and I'm like, okay, I
can't listen to that.
I heard a song the other day byTupac and I was like wait, oh

(39:11):
no, it was Biggie, it was Biggie.
And I was like wait, oh no, itwas Biggie, it was Biggie.
And I was like, oh he nasty,I'm not listening to this.
I've been listening to thatsong forever.
I'm like he is nasty.
I was like I just got the wordfinally.
You know what I mean, becauseBiggie was a little nasty.
Oh yeah, tupac wasn't that crass.

Maurio Dawson (39:32):
Yes, he was.
You have not gone into hiscatalog.

Carmen Lezeth (39:36):
I have gone into his catalog.
Maybe I'm just more biased toTupac.

Maurio Dawson (39:41):
Okay.

Alma Dawson (39:44):
So even if there was, I can quote Wait, why do
you have to look away from me?

Maurio Dawson (39:47):
We're talking about music and art.
I can quote to you right offthe top of my dome where Tupac's
told Biggie I effed your wifeand I did this.

Carmen Lezeth (39:58):
I know what song you're talking about.
That don't bother me as much asI know I know.
I know that don't bother me asmuch as the way in which Biggie
is talking about women and whathe's doing to them in the moment
against their will.
You see the difference, BecauseI feel like Tupac fighting and

(40:21):
saying not lies, but saying likeinstigating whatever, and that
is bad.
That's bad, but that I expectin rap.
But what I'm talking about isthe misogyny that is so bad that
you're like raping people onmusic.
You know what?
I'm saying that's where I'm like.
Oh, I cannot, and I was like,and I'll tell you off what the

(40:43):
song is, and I'm like, oh, Ican't, I had to delete Biggie
off my.
I'm like I did not know, I didnot, I had to delete Biggie.
I don't know why Biggie was onmy playlist anyways.
I'm just going to say thatright now.
I don't know why.

Maurio Dawson (40:54):
You know why he was on your playlist.

Carmen Lezeth (40:55):
I know why.
But okay, going back to Rickfor a moment, I just feel like
for me sometimes, especiallywhen I watch your show because
you're on every night andsometimes I'll try to catch you
out in the afternoon here duringmy lunch break, and you pray

(41:16):
for the same things over andover again and a part of me is
you praying for the same thingand it's not getting nowhere.
What does that do for you?
Or what do you feel when I saysomething like that sounds or
seems dismissive, which I'mstill trying to be respectful,
but that's my question.
Like I, I get sad because Iused to believe and I don't
anymore.

Rick Costa (41:40):
Yeah, so there's a story that Jesus tells about a
woman who goes to this judge'shouse and keeps on knocking on
the door over and over and overand finally he just relents.
He's like she keeps doing thesame thing over and over again
until, like he just can't standit anymore, he gets out of bed
because he does it like inmiddle of the night and he
finally gives her what she wants.
And I think Jesus is sayingit's okay to keep on praying

(42:00):
over and over and over again.

Carmen Lezeth (42:01):
So I have to wear him down.
That's what it is.
I have to keep asking every day.

Rick Costa (42:08):
I do that with people sometimes too.

Maurio Dawson (42:12):
You got to take your ticket and get in line just
like everybody else.

Alma Dawson (42:17):
I'm just saying okay okay, can I jump in here?
Can I jump in here?

Rick Costa (42:23):
But I also want to say that what I do during the
whole thing it actually bringscomfort to a lot of people and
that's really the main reasonwhy I do it, and like when I
call out your name and I knowyour issue specifically and I
say lovely that they feelcomfort from that.
Now it's taking up a big chunkof time yes, it does but because

(42:47):
you know, they makes them feelspecial.

Carmen Lezeth (42:49):
I mean now I could do it, because I've
memorized this so much.
I could come on the list withyou, and I don't watch you daily
, but I do watch you and I getit, because in Catholicism the
priest is Jesus, basically, andso it's that same thing, right,
it's that you all rolled youreyes.

(43:09):
I'm just saying that's theproblem with Catholicism.
But that's the idea is you'retalking to the priest asking for
forgiveness.
He is God, it's blah, blah,blah, and so what ends up
happening is you do feelcomforted when he calls your
name out at the altar or at theyou know.
So I get it, but I love how youall rolled your eyes.

Rick Costa (43:30):
The Mass is literally the exact same thing
every time, Except, you know,the reading is different, the
homily is different, buteverything else is literally.
Stand up, sit down sameresponse, exactly the same.

Carmen Lezeth (43:44):
Oh yeah, I hadn't been to church in 15 years, and
then I became a godmother forthe fifth time or something, and
I went into the church and itwas like I left, they had not
changed a damn thing and it wasa different state.
Okay, it was a different state.
I was like what is?

Maurio Dawson (44:02):
happening.
You jumped right in and pickedit right up, didn't you?

Carmen Lezeth (44:05):
it's kind of like an old song you hadn't heard in
a long time.
You just know the words likeyeah, that's why, in a way, it
is art.
I don don't know, I don't know.
It's weird, but you know,repeating stuff is good too.
That's not a bad thing.
You repeat on your show, rick.
You do a lot of the same thing.
It's to comfort people.
People like to feel like theyknow and understand something.

(44:25):
Alma's I can feel when Alma hassomething to say.
Go ahead, girl.

Alma Dawson (44:35):
You sound a little bit of spirit, go ahead, I can
feel the spirit coming throughthe screen.
I, just when you know you saidif you were, if he was offended
by you, saying that you hear himpraying for the same thing and
nothing is happening.
No, I'm going to say no, notoffended, but the thing is that
maybe even for myself, I prayfor the same things, but they

(44:57):
get manifested in my life indifferent ways.
So I think it's all in yourperspective, really, truly.
I just really feel that it's inyour perspective, but it's also
, it's your.
Like Rick said, he's prayingand it comforts people.
I feel like prayer definitelyis, definitely is a conversation
between you, between you andGod.

(45:19):
That's your own personal, yourpersonal relationship, your
personal language with him.
Sometimes God doesn't changethe thing that you want him to
change, but is he changing yourheart?
And see, sometimes it's aboutmaybe that thing you're asking
for is not really the thing thatyou need to be praying for
change for.

Carmen Lezeth (45:37):
And this is possible if I push back and say
isn't that also just a way ofexplaining what's not happening,
right?

Alma Dawson (45:45):
I mean, this is the problem with a lot of people,
and then that's what I'm sayingit's all about.
It's all about, I feel likefaith, prayer, religion.
It's all also about making youthink you know what I'm saying.
They can't just all be likeit's like art.

Maurio Dawson (46:00):
Yes.

Carmen Lezeth (46:01):
That's why you were saying it's like art.

Alma Dawson (46:02):
I got you.
It's to make you think, it's tomake you reflect, it's to make
you look at it from differentperspectives, when it's
different for everyone.
The prayer that I pray isspecific, maybe for the things
that are happening in my life,but it may speak into something
different, into someone else'slife, which I may not know what
it's about.
But my prayer, even as genericas it may sound or may be

(46:27):
perceived as generic, isactually speaking into someone's
life in a different way that Imay not know.

Carmen Lezeth (46:33):
Let me be clear.
I'm okay with everyone prayingfor me.
Pray for me as much as you want.
I will take all prayers.
I am not against it at all.
I am not one of those people.
I don't care what religionyou're in or what you believe.
If you're praying for me, I'mall for it.

Alma Dawson (46:49):
Go for it, I don't care If I have a question.
I want to throw a question outthere.
Yes, of course, something whenyou were little that you didn't
think you were going to like,but you went and you did it and
you loved it.
Are you asking me a question?
All of us, everyone.
Okay, say it again.
So something that you did as achild that was art related, that

(47:11):
you love and you still, it'sstill something that you do now
as an adult.

Carmen Lezeth (47:19):
I thought I would hate going to see Bizette's
Carmen is the opera.
And now I mean I love opera andI now say it's not true.
But I always say that I wasnamed after the opera Carmen,
like that's-.

Alma Dawson (47:38):
Yeah, you stole mine.
You stole mine.
Oh really, it's opera for me.
I went to see an elementaryschool.
It was a school field trip.
La Opera has this great programwhere elementary school
teachers go to a class and thenthey give their kids a free trip
to the opera and they get to gosee the dress rehearsal.
So my first opera was withPlacido Domingo.

(48:00):
And I completely fell in loveand I've loved it ever since and
I introduced Marissa to it andshe loves it.
She did a whole thing, so yeahso.
So that was mine.
I didn't steal yours.

Carmen Lezeth (48:14):
We just share the same.
That's kind of cool, oh my god.
Oh, that's kind of so cool.
I love that we'll have to go ona date.
Yes, just me and you, thoughlet's leave it there no, we'll
leave it there.

Maurio Dawson (48:27):
Leave me, I'm fine with it that's a nap
opportunity for him.

Alma Dawson (48:31):
He naps, oh really okay let's do it.

Carmen Lezeth (48:35):
I would love to do it.
Okay, rick, I'm sorry.
What about you?

Rick Costa (48:38):
Naps are life.

Carmen Lezeth (48:41):
We thought we were going to talk about being
in the orchestra.
I thought you were going to saysomething about the opera, but
go ahead.

Rick Costa (48:50):
It's like art related.

Maurio Dawson (48:52):
I don't know Anything that you can think it's
okay, she should throw one outthere.

Carmen Lezeth (48:57):
That took a little time to think about.
Okay, anything related,whatever works for you.

Rick Costa (49:02):
I remember when, as a kid I loved to go to the beach
all the time.
So not art related, but and Inever really did learn how to
swim.
I could doggy paddle, but atfirst I I never thought I would
even like that, but then Istarted.
Oh no, this is fun.
Go in the water, splash eachother, try swimming, try not to
die, try not to die Do you still?

Carmen Lezeth (49:22):
not know how to swim now.

Rick Costa (49:24):
Doggy paddle.
That's it, and I can float.
I'm like okay.
Okay.

Carmen Lezeth (49:31):
Here's another question Totally off tangent,
would okay.

Rick Costa (49:35):
Here's another question totally off tangent
would you go on a cruise on aboat I have on my honeymoon?

Carmen Lezeth (49:38):
oh, really see, I would think it'd be hard to go
on a boat or a cruise if youdidn't know how to swim.
I don't know why that would.
I did it yeah you don't knowhow to swim either I do now I
can survive now, yeah, but back,no.

Maurio Dawson (49:52):
not on my first cruise.
It was horrible, oh that's sofunny, oh, but to answer Elma's
question, my childhoodexperience was that I got to be
in my first play at five yearsold oh, actor, and so I've been
in love with theater ever since.
So that's where my affectionfor music, musicals, plays, art,

(50:19):
any type of concert, that'swhere that comes from, that
five-year-old performance and itwas a fundraiser and
performance for KaiserPermanente, believe it or not,
and it was at the Wilshire EBell Theater here in LA.
I love it and I had my debut atfive years old.

Carmen Lezeth (50:35):
I love it yeah.

Maurio Dawson (50:38):
Isn't that the?

Carmen Lezeth (50:38):
coolest thing, don't you love those little
things that happen when you're akid?
And then they, I don't know,they change your life, but you
remember them forever.
There are certain things Icannot remember when I was five,
six, seven, eight years old,but there were those little
moments like what you justtalked about.
Oh, now I remember clear as day.

Maurio Dawson (50:54):
It's a thread.
It's a long thread that runsthrough our life, through our
lifespan Did you guys go seeJanet Jackson?

Carmen Lezeth (51:01):
Is that where you were in Las Vegas?

Maurio Dawson (51:03):
We did.

Carmen Lezeth (51:04):
I knew you were there.

Maurio Dawson (51:06):
I knew you did At Resort World.

Carmen Lezeth (51:09):
Oh, I knew that's where you were.
Okay, that's art right there.

Alma Dawson (51:13):
Oh yeah, she still got it.
She still got it.

Maurio Dawson (51:17):
She was dropping it low, bringing it up slow,
popping it, dropping it.
Flames were flying, they were.
It was nice, it was incredible.
She changed costumes.
What?
Six times?
Five or six times, six times.

Alma Dawson (51:29):
Yes, oh yeah, it was great she had risers.

Maurio Dawson (51:32):
She was on a little pole that rolls up in the
middle of the stage, laserlights all around.
She gave a show, yeah it wasgood.
She gave a show Two hours andsix minutes.
Really, yeah, just her, nobodyelse.
It's a great show.

Carmen Lezeth (51:49):
It's interesting, though right, how art can move
us.
I wasn't even there, but I knew.
I knew when you were like, oh,we're going to be in Las Vegas.
I'm like he's going to go seeJanet Jackson.

Maurio Dawson (51:58):
Yep, so did I.

Carmen Lezeth (52:00):
I knew where you guys were going.
I wasn't even there and I'm notgoing to see her, but it's like
I know that what she did wasart, not even a question.

Rick Costa (52:16):
She even the question she's in a few clips.
She'll be like oh my god, yeah,yeah, I wonder if there's a
part of, there's a little partof her that says michael's not
here, so let me try to.

Alma Dawson (52:22):
She honors him on her show honors him.

Maurio Dawson (52:24):
Yeah, she's saying scream, does she?

Carmen Lezeth (52:27):
scream with him still, yeah, in the background
yeah I mean, remember janet?
Janet Jackson was an artist inher own right, regardless of
Michael.
I'm not trying to be rude, butI loved Nasty and Control.
Control was first right.
Control was her first album.

Maurio Dawson (52:46):
No, it's Young Love.

Carmen Lezeth (52:48):
What was it?

Maurio Dawson (52:49):
Her first album was Young Love.

Carmen Lezeth (52:50):
Okay, what was Pleasure Principle?
I knew that whole song, that'sthe Control Love.
Okay, what was Pleasure?

Maurio Dawson (52:53):
Principle.
I knew that whole song, that'sthe Control album.

Carmen Lezeth (52:54):
Okay, I knew that I could do that dance right now
for you all.
I could do it right now.
Get on that chair, I could dothe champion and I could do the
backflip back in the day youjust better do it.
And she didn't really.
Let me just tell you she didnot do the backflip.
I did the backflip because I wasall in that, but she was an

(53:15):
artist in her own right, and sothe only reason I push back on
that is because I'm sure shemisses her brother.
But those are two differentgeniuses right there.

Maurio Dawson (53:23):
Yeah.

Carmen Lezeth (53:24):
In the same family Crazy.

Maurio Dawson (53:25):
I saw a clip, though, where Michael said that
Janet stole his military stufffrom Rhythm Nation.

Carmen Lezeth (53:33):
Was he being funny?

Maurio Dawson (53:35):
No, he was upset.
He was like no, he was alreadydoing this, his story thing, his
story album.
He needed to stop.
No, he said it started withCaptain EO when he was doing the
we Are the Change of the World.
He was doing the militant movesand she saw Captain EO and
she's like Michael, can I kindof borrow that?
And she's like Michael, can Iborrow that?
And he's like whatever, becausehe's like I was about to go

(53:57):
into that whole military typedance.
He said Janice stole that Shay.

Carmen Lezeth (54:03):
You know what I'm just saying?
I don't know if I believe himand he's not here.
May he rest in peace.
But no, he needs to leave heralone.
Yeah, but you know that's stillin love, but no, he needs to
leave her alone yeah yeah,better anyways

Rick Costa (54:19):
because that was a rhythm nation is a great album.

Carmen Lezeth (54:20):
Yeah, another layered thing that people did 18
, 14.
People did not understand allof these things.
It was so, yeah, people angryabout that album too.
Remember when that came outyeah I don't know why?

Rick Costa (54:34):
Wasn't she an actress too on Good Times as a
little girl?
Oh yeah, that was Penny.

Carmen Lezeth (54:39):
That was Penny.
That was a sad storyline,though I hate it.

Alma Dawson (54:42):
Yeah, it was.
I was sure you were going tosay the comic books were your
art thing.

Carmen Lezeth (54:49):
What comic books?
Well, that's true.

Alma Dawson (54:54):
You read comic books.

Rick Costa (54:56):
I didn't read comic books.

Carmen Lezeth (55:00):
I don't know you're looking back that's not
comic books, that's Marvel shit,but it comes from comic books.
But I didn't know some people.
I'm just saying some peoplelove Marvel but are not comic
book fans.
I've never heard Rick talkabout reading comic books.
I didn't know.

Rick Costa (55:18):
I didn't know.
It was until I was like 14, Ithink it was whenever that Fox
X-Men cartoon came out.

Carmen Lezeth (55:26):
Then I was like dope.
Do you have some that we cansell and invest in?
The podcast live stream.

Rick Costa (55:33):
You know what a long box is.
A long box is a specific boxmade for comics.
I don't even know how many longboxes I have full of comics Wow
, we do.

Alma Dawson (55:44):
That's an art collection.

Rick Costa (55:46):
I told my son.
I said, if I die, you bettersell these things, make some
money.
Why don't you?

Carmen Lezeth (55:50):
sell them now and make some money.

Maurio Dawson (55:53):
Yeah, the older they are, the make some money.
Why don't you tell them now?
And make some money.
Yeah, the older they are, themore they enjoy.

Carmen Lezeth (55:57):
I'm just saying leave that stupid job.
I mean not the stupid job.

Maurio Dawson (56:03):
It's a great job.
It's not stupid, it's income.
We love our jobs.

Carmen Lezeth (56:09):
We do, and with that at the hour mark before we
go down, a horrible you knowwhat.
I had a worse day today at workand yesterday was a horrible
day and then it was raining allday and I hate how people drive
in LA.
So yeah, I'm just saying if yousold the comic books and they

(56:30):
were worth millions of dollars,I mean, are comic books worth?
They're worth a lot of money itcan be, yeah you like cynthia,
you don't want to spend yourmoney.

Rick Costa (56:41):
You got money, you got investments, but you don't
want to spend it well, likethere's also this digital comic
thing called vvve and it's alldigital comics.
And I took a chance one day andthere was like a really old,
old, old Hulk one.
I was like let me take a chance.
It was like 20 bucks.
I was like, Ooh, that's a lot,Cause usually most of them are

(57:02):
six 99.
I was like maybe it's worthsomething that I did, a little
bit of research and you.
There's five possibilities.
You can get Just normal blah,blah, blah until super rare.
I got the super rare and thatthing cost $1,000.

Carmen Lezeth (57:19):
Wait, you bought it for $20 and now it's $1,000?
.

Maurio Dawson (57:22):
It's worth $1,000 .

Carmen Lezeth (57:24):
It's a digital thing.
It's digital and you don't wantto sell that.
You never know it could go morelater.
I'm just saying you know what?
I'm not that kind of investor.
I'm not that kind of investor.
I don't invest like that.
I'm not going to be hurting inpain while I have investments
that could make me feel happy.

(57:46):
I'm not that person.
But that's why I guess I workfor other people, because I
don't wait the long gate.
All right With that, I am goingto end the show.
Thank, guess I work for otherpeople because I don't wait the
long gate.
But all right with that, I amgoing to end the show.
Thank you so much for stoppingby.
You guys are awesome.
We have so much fun in theseprivate lounges.
Please visit us atallaboutthejoycom and remember,
at the end of the day, it reallyis all about the joy.
Yay.

(58:07):
Thank you everyone.
Bye.
Thanks for stopping by.
All About the Joy.
Be better and stay beautiful.
Folks, have a sweet day.