When a pregnant woman with nowhere to go arrives at the hospital, what happens after she gives birth? For hundreds of women in Boston, Dr. Rosanna Means and her groundbreaking Bridges to Moms program create a lifeline that extends far beyond traditional medical care.
Our conversation with Dr. Means unveils the remarkable journey of a trained physician who abandoned a prestigious cardiology path after witnessing the resilience of Cambodian refugees. This transformative experience led her to create Healthcare Without Walls and eventually Bridges to Moms - programs that provide comprehensive support for pregnant women experiencing homelessness.
The statistics Dr. Means shares are both heartbreaking and hopeful. While women of color face maternal mortality rates three to five times higher than the general population, her program has maintained zero maternal deaths across nearly 900 participants. Every mother receives housing placement, transportation to medical appointments, food assistance, safety intervention when needed, and continued support through their baby's first year.
What truly distinguishes this work is understanding the human stories behind homelessness. Dr. Means dispels common misconceptions, explaining that many participants work full-time jobs but cannot afford housing in expensive urban areas. Others have been abandoned by partners upon announcing pregnancy or have made perilous immigration journeys seeking safety. The program responds with dignity rather than judgment, creating community through events like Day of Beauty and Career Day where women connect with resources and each other.
Perhaps most moving is Dr. Means' commitment to mothers with babies in neonatal intensive care. Her program provides daily transportation from shelters across Massachusetts, ensuring these vulnerable infants receive the proven benefits of maternal bonding during critical developmental periods.
Want to support this life-changing work? Visit bwhgiving.org/bridges to learn more and donate.
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Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth
DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carmen Lezeth (00:05):
Hi everyone, welcome to All About the Joy,
the private lounge and of courseI have Cynthia, my counterpart,
and we are so privileged tohave Dr Rosanna Means in the
house.
Did I say your first namecorrectly?
Dr. Roseanna Means (00:18):
You did.
It's like banana beans, butit's Rosanna Means.
I love it.
Carmen Lezeth (00:24):
Did you see my face?
I was like what?
So I told Cynthia that I wasgoing to embarrass you because,
first of all, I am feeling soreally privileged that you said
yes to doing this interview, andI always like to tell people
how I met you, but I've nevermet you.
This is actually Cynthia's get.
(00:45):
How did you guys meet before Iembarrass you?
Dr. Roseanna Means (00:50):
You want me to say that how we met.
Carmen Lezeth (00:52):
I'm going to do this one, because I have a lot
of questions for you, cynthia.
How did you guys meet?
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (00:57):
So we met when I started working at
Brigham and Women's at the freecenter at 850 Boylston and I was
so like intimidated by all thedoctors and everything.
And one day I'm at lunch and DrMeany just comes in and comes
and sits with the rest of uslike any normal person.
I said, oh, she's cool, I likeher.
(01:18):
So then from there we just kindof clicked and, yeah, you've
been friends ever since.
Carmen Lezeth (01:23):
Well, that's a great segue.
I know I should let my guestsspeak, but I can't do that yet.
I have to first embarrass you.
The reason why I'm actually notgoing to embarrass you you
already kind of know what I'mgoing to do, but I think it's
important, especially as a woman, as somebody who cares about.
Anyways, let me just, before Igo on my diatribe, let me just
(01:46):
say I am going to read part ofyour bio because I think it's
important for people to know whowe're talking to.
I have cut out it because, ifnot, it would be the whole 45
minutes of the show, becauseyour bio is so rich and
brilliant and who you are andwhat you have done is just
incredible.
And who you are and what youhave done is just incredible.
(02:09):
And I live in Los Angeles, Iwork for a lot of celebrities.
I never get flummoxed.
Flummoxed Is that the wordFlummoxed?
I never get excited about acelebrity, but this, this
Meeting someone like you, thisis everything for me.
So let me just go here.
Okay, dr Rosanna means MSC,which is master of science,
(02:30):
which I did not know.
So on top of being a doctor,she has a master's in science
right has been on the medicalstaff of Brigham and Women's
Hospital since completing herinternal medicine residency
there in 1984.
She is a senior staff attendingin the Division of Women's
Health and an AssociateProfessor of Medicine at Harvard
(02:51):
Medical School.
Y'all know how I'm feelingabout this already.
Dr Means is the founder and pastCEO CMO of Healthcare Without
Walls, formerly Women of Means,a nonprofit organization of
volunteer physicians and staffnurses who provide free,
bridging medical care and carecoordination for unhoused and
(03:15):
housing insecure women andfamilies in Boston.
In 2013, while at HealthcareWithout Walls, she launched
Bridges to Elders for VulnerableWomen Age 55 and Older.
That made me cry when I firstread it.
In 2016, she launched Bridgesto Moms at the Brigham and
(03:36):
Women's Hospital to Close Gapsin Healthcare Access and Social
Determinants I hope I said thatword right of health for
homeless and housing insecurepregnant women receiving
maternity care at BWH, which isBrigham Women's Hospital.
Bridges to Moms is part of theDivision of Women's Health in
(03:57):
the Department of Medicine atBWH and serves as a model of
successful, innovative wholehealth approach towards
vulnerable women, and we'regoing to get into the nitty
gritty of that once I amfinished this long ass bio and.
I read how we're going to speak.
Doc, I have another page and ahalf.
Just bear with me.
(04:17):
There's a reason why I'm doingthis.
There's a reason because I haveto do this because I believe
strong women need to always beuplifted even more when they are
in our presence.
That's just how I feel about it.
Dr Means has been recognized fordistinguished community service
by the Massachusetts MedicalSociety, healthcare for All, mit
Alumni Association, tuftsUniversity Alumni Association
(04:39):
and Harvard Medical School.
In 2008, dr Means was awardedan honorary doctor of humane
letters by Babson College.
In 2010, she was recognized asa community health leader by the
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation,and in 2011, she was named a
CNN hero, which I know ouraudience knows.
(04:59):
Okay, did you hear that?
Okay, in 2012, she wasrecognized as a woman of courage
and conviction by the Bostonchapter of the National Council
of Negro Women, and in 2017, wasnamed one of Boston's top
doctors by Boston Magazine.
I'm almost done.
(05:19):
Okay, I've cut out a lot, right, dr Means?
You know I've cut out a lot.
Okay, this is what I thoughtwas like the juicy parts, and
that's okay.
In 2021, dr Means wasrecognized by the Brigham and
Women's Hospital PhysicianOrganization with the
prestigious.
Do you say Pillar or Pilar?
Pillar, like a pillar?
(05:41):
Okay?
Pillar Award in communityservice.
Having spent over four decadesserving underserved populations.
In 2023, harvard Medical Schoolrecognized her with its Equity,
social Justice and AdvocacyAward.
In 2024, she was recognized bythe BWH Department of Medicine
(06:02):
for exemplary service Okay.
At all stages of herprofessional career, dr Means
has mentored and inspired dozensof pre-med and medical students
, nursing students and medicaltrainees.
And here's my favorite part Agraduate of MIT, bs and MSC,
which we've already discussedand Tufts University School of
(06:24):
Medicine, her MD.
She completed her residency ininternal medicine at the Brigham
and Women's Hospital in 1984.
Dr Means is a founding memberof the Friends of MIT Crew and
serves on the board of the MITCrew Alumni Association.
So, after all that, the MD ofthis sentence is about the
(06:45):
rowing team, which we also do.
So welcome to the show, right?
Welcome to the show and thankyou for all of that.
I'm inspired.
Dr. Roseanna Means (06:55):
Oh well, thank you.
I mean, I'm lifted up by thewomen that I've taken care of
all my life, so I feel blessed.
Carmen Lezeth (07:06):
Well, but why did you decide to get into that
field?
Like, what made you?
What was?
It's not the field of medicineI'm talking about.
I am talking about um, theorganization where bridges to
moms.
Like, how did that happen?
Dr. Roseanna Means (07:26):
It's an evolution of thinking.
But you know, more importantly,what happened was during my
residency.
You know, I was at the Brighamand Women's Hospital, you know,
a very prestigious Harvardteaching hospital.
I was absolutely petrified.
I mean, you hear about thingslike imposter syndrome.
I had that in spades because Ihad come from Tufts Medical
(07:50):
School, not Harvard MedicalSchool.
So I was just careful that Ididn't make a big mistake and
every time I opened my mouth andI felt so fortunate to be there
.
And then in the second year ofmy residency it's a three-year
residency they ask you if youwant to specialize and I kind of
(08:10):
follow the crowd and said, well, I think I want to be a
cardiologist, because that'swhat people do when they come to
a Harvard teaching hospital isthey do something prestigious
like that?
And so I lined up a cardiologyfellowship back at Tufts, my
alma mater for medical school,lined up a cardiology fellowship
back at Tufts, my alma materfor medical school.
And then, after that happened,it turns out that I was
contacted by a colleague and, asmany people know, the Vietnam
(08:35):
War ended in 1975.
And after the Vietnam War ended, the Vietnamese invaded
Cambodia.
The Vietnam War ended, theVietnamese invaded Cambodia and
a dictator came to power namedPol Pot and started slaughtering
everyday Cambodians.
And I was a person that grew upduring the 1960s and I was one
(08:56):
of those people that marched outof Washington and protested
against the war and we wantedpeace and all that kind of stuff
.
And so it really spoke to mebecause I thought, okay, I
really wanted to help the peopleon the other side of the world,
and so I asked my residencydirector at great peril because,
again, I was terrified that Iwould give up this incredibly
(09:17):
golden opportunity.
But I said, look, I really feelcalled to go help in this
refugee camp.
So there was a Cambodianrefugee camp and there were a
lot of international aidorganizations there.
The one I worked for was calledthe International Rescue
Committee and they still do workall over the world.
They're an amazing organization.
(09:38):
So I literally left my husband,my job, my family, and traveled
across the world and lived inthis little village in Thailand
and went into this refugee campand as I spent three months
there and I was so impressedthis is such a cliche I was so
impressed with the power of thehuman spirit, what these
(09:59):
individuals had overcome,crossing the mountains where
there were landmines.
I mean, the first thing I sawin the refugee camp was a
12-year-old boy getting his footamputated without anesthesia
Wow, the landmine that had blownoff his lower leg.
And these 100,000 refugees inthis camp and there were
(10:20):
multiple camps along the border,but they had all given up
everything to try to escape forfreedom.
And what they had done duringthat time was, um, in addition,
to just try to survive.
And, you know, figure out whatthe next step was in their lives
.
They were teaching the kidsthat you know many of them were
orphans teaching these kidstheir cultural values, their,
(10:41):
their skills, the weaving, themusic, the songs, the cultural
norms.
It was just incrediblyimpressive and I thought I would
like to be able to spend mylife taking care of people like
this, who are willing to give upeverything to find a better
path forward.
(11:02):
And so I came back to theBrigham after three months and,
instead of doing my cardiologyfellowship, I canceled my
cardiology fellowship.
I thought they were going totake me out into the middle of
Brigham circle and break mystethoscope in a public ceremony
.
Wow, you don't want to be anacademician?
What is wrong with you?
So, anyway, I followed primarycare and I soon I looked for a
(11:28):
population I could work with inBoston and I discovered that
there was a whole program thatwas beginning in Boston helping
homeless persons, and so Istarted working with them and I
also continued with my career.
I had two paths.
As Cynthia knows, I was takingcare of a very well-heeled
practice in, you know, in asuburb of Boston.
People who you know, who werelike I am.
(11:50):
They go home to a nice houseand they have health insurance
and you know all the things theyneed.
And then I would also spendhours every week going onto the
streets and into the sheltersand taking care of people who
had nothing and that reallyspoke to me.
And after I did that for a fewyears, I realized that my
background in women's health wasreally important for the women
(12:13):
that were becoming homeless.
It's a different pathway forwomen who become homeless than
it is for men and they havedifferent biologies and
different needs and differentthings.
So I left that program.
Analogies and different needsand different things.
So I left that program andreally these are all crazy ideas
, but if it inspires people, youknow, I left the program and
said I think I need to start myown nonprofit Now, did I know
(12:39):
how to start a nonprofit?
Did I know how to create abudget?
No.
Did I know how to write a grant?
No.
But what I did is I went to mychurch and I talked to the board
of outreach and I said I'vebeen volunteering in these
shelters for a number of yearsand I really want to help the
women.
Would you give me some money?
And they did so.
They gave me a little money andI started my nonprofit and that
(13:03):
grew and I spent 25 years doingthat and then Bridges to Moms
came about at the Brigham.
Again back to the academicteaching hospital, because I've
never left there.
It's been my professional home.
And in 2015, the hospitalmanagement came to me and said
you know, we have kind of acrisis on our hands.
You know, they are a tertiarycare hospital, which means
(13:25):
people refer to them.
They do very high level I meanextraordinary medicine.
It's absolutely amazing.
And so people who are verywealthy come to that hospital.
I make no bones about it.
But the one population theycouldn't understand was women
who were poor, that wereunhoused or at risk of being
unhoused, who were coming tothis hospital because it was a
(13:48):
referral hospital for high-riskpregnancies.
And so women, mostly women ofcolor in Boston, had needed to
have a place to go where theycould have their blood pressure,
their diabetes, their historyof preeclampsia, other things
addressed.
And what they were discoveringdiscovering the social workers
when these women were beingdischarged was that women would
(14:09):
look up at them before they gotin that little wheelchair to go
down to the front door and say,well, where do I go with my baby
, my baby's, two days old, wheredo I go?
And you know, what they weredoing is putting them in a taxi,
sending them down to the statehousing office.
But but you know, we all knowthat.
Well, not everybody knows.
What happens is that the lateday discharges mean that you are
(14:30):
at the state housing office inthe afternoon.
Everything is gone.
There's no shelter beds,there's no place to go at night,
and so the women would be goingthrough their phones who can I
call?
Like the boyfriend had longsince left them and they were
there with this newborn and noplace to go.
They couldn't go back to thehospital.
So this was happening.
The social workers weredistressed, the hospital leaders
(14:52):
were distressed and they cameto me because I was an expert on
homelessness and women's healthand said you know, find a way,
you know a program.
And so I did.
Carmen Lezeth (15:04):
So that's what I did, and so, just to be clear,
what your program actually doesis not only when women come to
you in their pregnancy mode.
They're in their late stages,right of pregnancy, or is it
sometimes at the beginning?
Dr. Roseanna Means (15:20):
So I'm not an obstetrician, ok, so they
come in, they're registered asobstetrics patients and that the
obstetricians and the socialworkers refer to me.
And it could be literally, youknow, the first trimester, their
first OB visit, and somebodysays, well, you know I, you know
, I, I don't know how to applyfor WIC, which is the federal
(15:40):
program that helps women.
I, I don't know how to applyfor food stamps, I'm not eating,
I don't have any money, I don'thave a job, my boyfriend left
me.
And then they hear those wordsand they go okay, we need some
help here.
And then we hear about thosepeople and our whole team goes
into action.
So we are addressing everythinghousing, transportation, to all
(16:03):
medical appointments throughoutthe pregnancy and postpartum
period, wic and SNAP, which isfood stamps safety big issue,
lots of interpersonal violence,domestic violence, trauma and,
in our immigrant community,tremendously perilous journeys
coming up through the, you know,through the Darien gap and so
(16:24):
forth and um, and making surethat they have a place to go
home with their baby.
And so we're this is our 10thyear and we we have helped
almost 800 women at this pointand 95% are women of color.
This is a group that has threeto five times the maternal
(16:46):
mortality rate.
Not a single maternal death.
Right, you have not lost anyone.
Right, we have not lost anyone.
We are.
You know.
We see these women through thepregnancy 100% placement.
Not a single family is sleepingon the streets.
Not a single family is sleepingat Logan Airport.
Not a single family is sleepingat Logan Airport.
(17:06):
Even throughout this lastimmigrant so-called crisis, we
have been taking care of ourfamilies and we follow the
family through the baby's firstyear.
Make sure that if they startout in an emergency shelter and
they need to transfer, we helpthem facilitate that transfer
shelter and they need totransfer, we help them
(17:27):
facilitate that transfer.
My team is entirely bilingual.
We make sure that if they're atrisk of eviction, we go to
housing court.
We protect them on housingcourt.
Carmen Lezeth (17:34):
We make sure that they get connected to primary
care because so you're and Idon't mean to interrupt you, but
I just want to make sure forour listeners as well.
You're providing a safety net.
You're providing a safety netfor people who have fallen
through the cracks for whateverreason.
And one of the things I mean Ihave no reason to believe you
(17:55):
know anything about me, but mytrigger is when we talk about
homeless people.
I get really upset with peoplenot you, but people who don't
understand the situation at all.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhy some of these women find
themselves in this situation, asopposed to people just thinking
, you know, oh, they're justtaking advantage of Dr Means.
(18:17):
That's what they're doingbecause it's free.
They're getting everything forfree.
Dr. Roseanna Means (18:20):
They're getting free healthcare you know
, well, you know, nothing isfree as you know it.
But you know, so many of thesewomen are women from sort of 17,
18 on up to like early 50s thathave been referred to us, and
the typical kind of situation isthat they're in a relationship.
(18:41):
Very often in theserelationships the man is not
willing to use birth control.
We know that.
And they get pregnant.
They think they're not going toget pregnant.
They get pregnant and, um, andthen, as soon as they announced
to their partner that they'repregnant, they're there, the
partner's gone, okay.
So somebody who might'vepromised oh, I've got a job, I
(19:02):
can take care of you, or I wantto be the father of your baby, I
want to raise your children, Iwant to do job, I can take care
of you.
Or I want to be the father ofyour baby, I want to raise your
children, I want to do this, I'mgoing to do that.
Carmen Lezeth (19:13):
And let me make it clear, I'm not a man hater.
Dr. Roseanna Means (19:14):
I love men, I love men too, but this is
harder to be with you, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (19:34):
The relationship is fraught and it's not it'sB
which is like no she did it, butthey've been abandoned.
Dr. Roseanna Means (19:39):
And you know , I would say I'm not kidding
About 70% of the women areworking.
They're working full-time,they're working part-time and
the cost of living just is notcutting it.
And so the cost of rent, thecost of groceries, the cost of
supplies, the cost of utilities,transportation, everything is
(20:00):
costing way too much.
And people would be surprised.
Some of the people that comethrough our program, we've had
nurses, we've had secretaries,we've had hospital workers, I've
had people who are employees atmy hospital, who have been
referred to my program.
I mean, it is incredible, and Ithink the general public
(20:22):
doesn't realize that there is awhole part of our society that
is doing the best they can andthey are working, they're
following all the rules, they'redoing everything they were told
to do and it's not enough.
You know everything costs toomuch and they can't make ends
meet and the rents keep going up.
And then they, you know, ifthey go into an apartment with a
(20:44):
guy and the guy leaves, thensuddenly they're stuck paying
the rent for the landlord.
Carmen Lezeth (20:50):
And there's not.
You know, not everyone hasextended family and has.
Yeah, I mean, it's not like youcan call your mom and dad and
be like can I just get a littlemore money from my trust fund?
Like I have people who don'tunderstand.
I mean, we're laughing about it, but I work for pretty wealthy
people and if you even talk tosome of their kids who are you
(21:12):
know, some of them are olderthan me they're just they don't
understand that.
They're like, well, worst case,I'll have to go get a loan on
my own.
Dr. Roseanna Means (21:20):
Like no, like you know, there's no.
You know, aunt Berthatha, unclecharlie, that's going to slip
you a $20 bill.
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn'thappen.
Now I will tell you and I, ifthis ever plays at my hospital,
I'm sorry, but this is who I amI have been known to slip a $20
bill to my patients because theyparked at the brigham.
(21:42):
They were able to, they wereliving out of their car, or you
know, they were borrowing a car.
They parked at the brigham andthey were living out of their
car, or you know, they wereborrowing a car.
They parked at the Brigham.
And they come to my clinic andthey I say, how did you get here
?
I always ask how they get there, because doctors don't ask how
people got to their office.
They think it's magic.
And they, you know, and I saidthey parked in.
You know they use valet parkingand so forth, and I said, okay,
just give me a second here.
I leave the room and come backand I just give them an envelope
(22:05):
and I say, look, you know youneed to, you need to be able to.
You know, do this.
And, by the way, we providetransportation and we also
provide, by the way, tickets tothe hospital cafeteria.
So when they come, when theycome to our program, anytime
they come to the hospital fortheir prenatal care, many of
them have not had something toeat that day, that entire day.
(22:27):
And so what we go in, we get onthese tickets.
We say you need to eat lots ofprotein, you know if they have
other kids with them.
They say go get some pizza orsome ice cream, you know.
Just, you know you need to takecare of yourself.
So that's just life, you knowyou got to do.
Carmen Lezeth (22:44):
You got to treat it as part of healthcare
basically, I'm going to letCynthia like get one question in
.
Dr. Roseanna Means (22:54):
Okay, I'm ready, I'm ready.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (22:57):
What's the most difficult part of you doing
this, like doing the wholething, like what do you find is
the most difficult part of yourjob or part of the program?
Dr. Roseanna Means (23:10):
Yeah For the Bridges to Moms program.
There's a tremendous amount ofabsolutely wonderful moments in
this program.
The difficult part is that Iwish I had, you know, a million
dollars.
I wish I had ways to help thewomen even more.
For instance, we give them giftcards to buy things like
(23:30):
strollers and car seats and babysupplies, because of course
nobody's thinking about thisstuff, you know.
So to me it's part ofhealthcare, but but the most
difficult thing is when the babydies.
That's the hardest part,because we had no maternal
mortality and it's very, veryrare.
(23:52):
But some of these women, whenthey come to us, their first
prenatal visit is like 32 weeksof pregnancy.
Carmen Lezeth (23:59):
Okay Okay.
I've never been pregnant, so Idon't know what that means.
Dr. Roseanna Means (24:02):
It's 40 weeks, so 32 weeks is just you
know you're right there ready tofrom you know from from
delivery.
Carmen Lezeth (24:10):
So when, when you're first pregnant and I know
people who listen I'm going tobe like oh, carmen is so dumb.
When's your first regularappointment?
When you find out you'repregnant, when are you supposed
to?
Dr. Roseanna Means (24:20):
go.
It varies.
So it should be like you missyour period and you think, okay,
you start doing the counting onyour fingers Like, what about
this?
And when did I last have sex,and stuff like that, and then it
might be you miss a secondperiod and then generally people
do a home pregnancy test andfind out.
But you know, for people whoare poor it costs money to buy a
home pregnancy test, Right.
So sometimes they don't knowuntil they're really far along
(24:43):
and they might have cramps, theymight go to an emergency room
and then someone will do apregnancy test.
So it can be any way, from like11 weeks of pregnancy early on
until, like I say, people whohave had no prenatal care for
various reasons, and for some ofthe women who came through the
immigrant journey, sometimesthey will come through Mexico,
(25:04):
central America, when they'repregnant and come here and
they've had no prenatal care.
But when the baby dies it's for, you know, the baby has had not
enough nourishment duringpregnancy, not enough prenatal
care.
There were fetal abnormalitiesfor various reasons or genetic
things.
That happen.
It happens in all pregnancies.
(25:25):
I mean there's, you know,there's a certain number of
these that don't end well.
But in the case of these women,it's so hard because, when
they're pregnant, these womenare so determined to be a good
mother.
They've given up everything andthey've just focusing on this
baby, no matter where they comefrom, whether they're Boston,
(25:45):
they've come in from California,they've come in from, you know,
haiti or Venezuela.
Wherever they're coming from,they're right in front of us.
We're there.
It's our obligation to takecare of them, and we are more
than happy to do so.
And we do everything we can tomake that journey as easy for
them as we can, with all thethings I mentioned.
But if, inevitably, the babydies, it's a very, very sad
(26:14):
thing, and so we, of course,embrace that woman, we comfort
her, we do whatever we can.
We have been known to pay forfunerals because sometimes
that's the only resource thatthey have, and we do that as a
gift to the women.
They don't ask, they never ask.
Carmen Lezeth (26:29):
I do want to just give the.
I'm sorry, I'm so thrown whenyou just said about the baby
dying and then the funeral.
I'm sorry, see, Cynthia, thisis why I didn't want her on the
show.
Cynthia knows I get a lot ofpeople who like requests to be
(26:49):
on the show, and they usuallythrough LinkedIn or whatever,
and I have to vet them.
And you know as much as I'dlike to say we have a huge staff
or whatever.
We're a tiny little boutique.
So Cynthia says hey, we weretalking about homelessness the
other day.
I thought I'd have Dr Means on.
You know she helps homelesspregnant women.
I'm like what is wrong with you?
Dr. Roseanna Means (27:09):
I don't want to talk about this, but but you
know I but, carmen, let me tellyou a great story, cause we had
a woman that happened to youknow, a little over a year ago,
year and a half ago, she, herbaby, died and it was tragic, it
was awful, and she had to.
She had to go through theentire grieving process, which
she did.
But listen to this this woman,within about six months, she had
(27:35):
signed up for classes, she, shehad took English classes, she
took training lessons, she, she,just this this month, moved
into her own and she hascompleted her training as a home
health aide.
Wow, and this is somebody whodealt with the loss, grieved it
(27:55):
appropriately, was able to putit all together.
Of course, she got counselingand so forth, but she put her
whole life together.
She took a deep breath, shemoved forward and look at her.
You know what, 18 months later?
Carmen Lezeth (28:09):
I mean, that is incredible courage and
resilience, no, and that's whyyour program is so important,
and let me just give for theaudio, if you want to give and
everyone should give something.
Who's listening?
That's me being very kind.
But bwhgivingorg forward, slashbridges.
(28:30):
And if anyone is like me whoalways spells bridges wrong, I'm
going to spell it out for you.
It's B-R-I-D-G-E-S.
So again, bwhgivingorg forward,slash bridges.
That's where you can donatemoney and everyone could give a
little something to help anotherwoman who needs assistance,
(28:54):
like if we all gave a little bit, even if it's like $5 a dollar,
we can help and do somethingbig to help another woman in
distress who needs just a littlenurturing.
And that's kind of the thing is.
You just talked about thislovely woman who went through
all this trauma and then turnedher life around, right?
(29:15):
Or I'm not even going to saythat.
She just walked through thesteps and did what she needed to
do and became who she issupposed to be in that moment,
and she did it with support.
We all need support.
Dr. Roseanna Means (29:27):
Yeah, we all need nurturing.
Yes, and I don't know howpeople don't get that.
Yeah, she did it.
She did it with support.
We supported her, but she didit with an incredible grace and
focus and I think you know.
I think that when you'retalking to me about what was the
hardest thing about about whatI do, when you were talking to
me about what was the hardestthing about what I do, the
hardest thing is is is being onthat journey with somebody who
(29:49):
has such a profound loss.
It's also part of the joy iswhat you see when the women have
gone through that journey andhave come out the other side,
and I will share with you andalso with your audience, that I
also lost a baby duringpregnancy.
I had a baby that died at 27weeks of pregnancy and it was a
little girl, and I have threesons.
(30:10):
So when a woman loses her baby,I feel very fortunate that I
can be the person that helps herget through that moment.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (30:24):
That's incredible for anyone like
listening who can't donatemonetarily.
Are there other things thatthey could do to help?
Dr. Roseanna Means (30:37):
um, um, it's hard.
You know, we are like you'resaying, we are kind of a small
group and we do this.
We have two events.
If they're in Boston.
We have two events every yearthat we provide for the women.
One is a day of beauty in Mayaround Mother's Day, and the
other is career day in the fall.
Volunteers for those events,because that's, you know, that
(31:05):
takes up a lot, of, a lot oftime and the biggest role for
volunteers is watching thebabies during these events.
Oh right, competition for thatvolunteer role.
But let me tell you about theDay of Beauty, because it's the
coolest thing.
So, day of Beauty, we decide,you know, the women come to us
one by one, Okay.
So we have a hundred or 150women a year that get referred
to us and they meet us and wehave that one conversation and
(31:25):
then they're assigned to one ofour case managers community
health workers, and we have afull-time social worker as well
and they go off and you know wecontinue to do this, help for
them.
But you know they don't knoweach other.
I mean, everybody feels likeI'm I'm doing this by myself
myself.
I am having the worst time ofmy life, like nobody could
(31:45):
possibly be as miserable as I amright now.
I've got a baby coming, I haveno money, nobody's talking to me
, the boyfriend left me, youknow.
So we all do that.
And then we decided but thesewomen need, they need a tribe,
they need a network.
You know we all need to bearound each other.
So we designed these two eventsto bring them together into one
(32:06):
room.
So the Day of Beauty is thecoolest thing because it comes
around Mother's Day.
It's for the moms who've justhad their babies.
They've been through this wholething.
They've had their babies and afew of them that are about to
burst.
We weren't sure, so we bringthem in anyway.
And we have this in a you knowbig building at the Brigham and
we provide it's all free, youknow, free transportation to and
(32:29):
from the event, uh, free foodall day, free child care, which
I told you is a volunteer, andthen, um, but they get free
hairstyling, makeup, makeup andmanicures.
And the first year we invitedpeople from the community that
we all knew, who came in anddonated their services.
(32:49):
But we just had our third one.
And this year almost everysingle person who provided
services was a woman who hadbeen through our program, who
knew how to style hair, knew howto do makeup and wanted to give
back.
And you know it's just like thecoolest thing.
And so the women all get tolike mix and mingle and talk
(33:10):
trade stories, trade phone youknow phone numbers and you know
they meet each other as babies.
The babies play together and,um, this year we had a photo
booth so after they lookedbeautiful, they could have a
picture taken.
Oh, that's so cool.
And then another woman who's adoula, which is a birth doula,
(33:31):
who was in another program thatwe work with.
She also makes this incrediblejewelry, and so she came down
and she gave every woman her ownbeautiful piece of jewelry oh,
that's so cool.
Yeah, every woman her ownbeautiful piece of hand-made
clothing.
Yeah, and they get goodie bags.
And they get goodie bags forbabies with age-appropriate
clothing and diapers and soforth, and gift cards and so
forth.
So Day of Beauty is really cool, and then Career Day in the
(33:55):
fall is introducing the womensame thing food, transportation
and so forth and meeting eachother.
But we also give them a chanceto learn about training
opportunities, educationalopportunities and so forth, and
even during the year we have aworkforce development
coordinator who connects withall these women and finds out
what they want to learn andconnects them to educational
(34:17):
classes, training programs andanytime anybody in our program
gets a certificate or anything.
It could be a first aid courseor care assistant, anything.
They get another gift card.
Carmen Lezeth (34:31):
Oh, wow, really.
Oh, that's so cool.
Dr. Roseanna Means (34:33):
As a reward for the accomplishment.
Carmen Lezeth (34:35):
Did you know you were going to be doing this when
you were a little girl?
Dr. Roseanna Means (34:39):
No, I wanted to be an angel.
People asked me when I waslittle what I wanted to be.
I mean, look, I've got the hair.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (34:46):
I think that's kind of sort of what
you're doing, though right theirony.
Dr. Roseanna Means (34:52):
I mean, you kind of said it as a joke, but
it's kind of you know, I justfeel like the universe leads you
to where your place is supposedto be and to me it gives me
great joy and I feel it's mycalling and it certainly is my
sense of purpose in the worldand I think we all do better if
we have a sense of purpose, andthis is my purpose.
Carmen Lezeth (35:14):
What do you see as the problem when people like
I get really incensed for a verydifferent reason, when people
you know we treat dogs, straydogs Like.
If I see one more commercial ofno offense to dog owners but it
drives me insane.
You know the sad music and thepoor dog or whatever.
(35:35):
But those same people will beon the street and for no reason
whatsoever, snicker at ahomeless person and be mean and
cruel or say something mean.
So what do you think we can doas individuals to be better
about that?
Or why do you think we reactthat way?
I'm just curious.
Dr. Roseanna Means (35:56):
Well, I think we react that way out of
ignorance and fear.
You know, I don't think it's.
If people really knew thepeople that they were behaving
towards, it would, it would be adifferent situation.
But you know, we have asocietal problem.
We don't, we do not have thepolitical will under either
political party to change thesituation.
It's a terrible, terriblesituation.
And you're right.
(36:17):
I mean, I know in Massachusettsthere are more shelters for
animals than there are for women, and people also hear the
stories.
They hear the story about thebag lady who had $100,000 under
a mattress, or somebody who wasmasquerading as an addict and
got away with something, and Ithink people just don't
(36:38):
understand, when I was workingin the women's shelters in
Boston, that for the women whodidn't have children, um, I
would ask them, like, what isthe one thing that drives you
crazy the most about?
You know it's the averagepublic and it's really being
ignored.
It's like if you see someone onthe street who's panhandling,
instead of walking by or turningyour head and ignoring them,
just say, hey, how you doing nowgood morning, or yeah, all the
(37:00):
time for money.
Mean, if I gave people money onthe street, you know, over the
past 40 years?
Carmen Lezeth (37:07):
I'd be broke.
I said to someone the other dayI'm like nobody carries cash
anymore and he's like funny,because he was like I have a
credit card machine.
I was like you do.
He was like no, I don't.
But it was an interaction,having a conversation with
somebody.
Dr. Roseanna Means (37:23):
Recognizing that they're another human being
.
Carmen Lezeth (37:25):
Yes.
Dr. Roseanna Means (37:27):
So that's important.
But I got to tell you a reallyfunny story because there was
one day this woman whounfortunately has passed on I
love this woman I mean I loveall the women, but I love this
woman and she was pretty streetsmart, pretty tough, and she was
to come down to the shelterthat I worked in in downtown
Boston, and and in one day I waswalking down downtown Boston I
(37:49):
saw her, saw her on the streetwith a little cup and she was
shaking the cup, trying to getpeople to put money in her cup.
This is many years ago whenpeople did cash carry in their
pockets and it was the day of aRed Sox game, so people were
sort of pouring through downtownBoston to get to Fenway Park
and lots of people, so she had,you know, lots of attention of
people.
And so I saw her and I said,hey, how you doing?
And she said, hey, dr Rosanna,that's what they call me.
(38:11):
Hey, dr Rosanna, how are you?
And I said fine, and I sat downon the curb next to her and I
said, talking to her, chit, chat, okay, so I'm doing everything
I just told you people should do, right, right.
So you know, after a fewminutes she started, starts to
like she's rattling her cup overhere, she's doing this, she's
doing this and you know, and Iand I I'm trying to talk to her
(38:56):
she says hold on, hold, have tolet yourself go a little bit and
be real with people.
But it is true, it you know andbe real with people.
But it is true.
There are people on the streetwho have severe mental illness
untreated and who have otherproblems with substance use and
all sorts of things, and some ofthem are dangerous.
Some of the men are ex-convicts.
It is true that that is areality of the population, but
(39:20):
we have not figured out as asociety how to get help to
people that is lasting.
Yes, you could have streetteams, you can have harm
reduction programs, you can doall these things, you can do
needle exchanges.
All those things are good, butthey're not permanent solutions.
Carmen Lezeth (39:38):
Well, the thing you don't know about me and of
course, cynthia knows becauseshe's my cousin, but she's also
known me but I mean, I thinkthat you know, I lost my mom
when I was really young and Idon't have a father and, long
story short, I ended up on thestreet.
So I was on the streets inBoston for a long time.
(39:58):
Someone, whether it was ateacher or someone I danced with
, or some of the parents, all ofthose people chipped in and
tried to help so I wouldn't fallthrough the cracks.
So there were just all thesepeople on the way.
And this is what people don'tunderstand, the reason why I get
so incensed about it.
It's like it doesn't take muchto be a good, decent person, and
(40:20):
every time you say that youwould be there for someone and
then you treat a homeless personthe way you do, that's how I
know you're a liar.
Dr. Roseanna Means (40:31):
It's true, and that's why, when I say I
give out a $20 bill from time totime, you know what?
Okay, so I'm not going to havepizza this weekend.
Big deal.
I have a safety net.
I'm more comfortable than thepeople that I'm talking about
here, and so why can't I give upa meal out?
I once did a calculation,actually, of what we spend as
(40:52):
Americans on pizza every year.
It was in the billions.
I'm thinking okay, if everybodygave up a pizza one day a week,
it would probably solve thehomelessness problem in this
country.
Carmen Lezeth (41:04):
Isn't that so weird?
Or one coffee, although I knowpeople need their coffee, but
like I drink coffee at home, Imake it, but even like a $7
coffee.
I was out with my niece theother day and what are the
matcha?
I've never had a matcha thing,but it was $7.
(41:25):
Cynthia, you know I'm not cheap.
You know, like I don't knowyour $20 thing we're going to
have to talk later because Iknow you make more money than I
do, but I'm like $7 for a matcha.
I was like no, it's crazy.
It's crazy.
Yeah, people talk a lot aboutwanting to help and I know
(41:46):
people mean well, we had aconversation on one of our other
shows.
I was trying to explain topeople that the thing about
homeless people that you don'tunderstand is that when they
have a bad day, they've beenhaving them one right after the
other.
So when they get a little bitof money and they want to get a
drink, I'm not mad at them.
I come home from my plush job,into my nice little home near
(42:09):
the beach and the first thing Iwant to do is have a drink.
Why would I think?
when someone's having amiserable time, I'm not excusing
it, I'm trying to make peoplerelate to the idea that
homelessness is not somethingthat can't happen at any moment,
to any one of us, at any time.
Dr. Roseanna Means (42:25):
Well, I think you're also talking about
how people, when they give moneyto someone on the street like
that, it's kind of like with asense of there are strings
attached, that I want to givethis to you but you better not
don't use it on that, thing,Right If that's going to bother
you.
if you're going to connect aface with your moral outrage,
(42:46):
then give to an organizationlike mine or like other programs
that help homeless persons,because the help is really
desperately needed.
And if you go into this with asense of moral judgment about it
, then you really don't have theright attitude.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (43:02):
And instead of buying the pizza for yourself
, buy a pizza for the homeless.
Dr. Roseanna Means (43:05):
That's what I yeah, I mean I literally would
bring food to people I'd see inthe street.
I'd bring coffee, or bringdonuts or breakfast sandwich or
something like that.
If, if you know, if you don'thave cash, you can go get
something at a local store, giveit to them.
Carmen Lezeth (43:18):
Or you can just be kind oh my God Also, just be
kind and not be mean to homelesspeople.
I, yeah, I it's.
It's one of my biggest petpeeves, especially because here
in Los Angeles and I live rightnear the beach and so there's a
lot of homeless people and I'mnot mad about it I'm like if I
(43:39):
was homeless, I would have flownto LA too back then, cause it's
warm, it's nice here, we haveprograms, like there's a reason
why people are here, but it'sall over the country.
We have a problem.
We have a problem.
Dr. Roseanna Means (43:52):
Yeah, we do have a problem, but it's, you
know it's.
It's not that there's notcapacity, it's that they you
know it's a this is a biggerconversation, but it's there.
There aren't enough shelterbeds.
There aren't enough treatmentprograms.
They're not used to be like yougo into detox, then you go to
rehab and then you go to a sickhalfway house and people don't
(44:12):
do that anymore.
It takes time to go fromhomeless in the streets and
dealing with alcohol or drugsand then getting your life back
together.
You can't just snap yourfingers and have it happen.
Carmen Lezeth (44:23):
And everyone who's homeless is not someone
who isn't like.
I know people who were educated, who, like you, were talking
about all the lists like.
There are people.
It's not about just being somescuzzy, poor person who does it
who's lazy and an alcoholic.
That is not true.
If you took a moment andunderstood the person that was
(44:43):
panhandling, you might learnthat they were some famous
musician or whatever.
They could have been a doctor.
Dr. Roseanna Means (44:49):
They could have been a lawyer and just fell
into hard times it really itdoes happen, but it is like I
mentioned before.
There's fear and ignorance, andsometimes people are so unable
to handle those emotions inthemselves that they kind of
project you know qualities ontopeople that would make it okay
for them to judge that personharshly, and that's just.
(45:10):
I think that's a weakness ontheir part as individuals and we
just have to work on that as asociety.
Carmen Lezeth (45:15):
So I have a question because I so.
For me it's really hard to workwith homeless people and it's
really hard for me to work withteenagers, and I know for myself
well, it's just because thatwas my life.
No, teenagers are like thehardest group to work with, to
(45:42):
do volunteer work somewhere.
So I was like I'm going to goyou know where I know and I'm
going to, and I couldn't do it.
It was emotionally too drainingand so I volunteer in other
ways and other organizationsbecause I think it was just too
close to me, right?
So my question for you is ishow do you emotionally keep
yourself?
I mean, you have such a greatspirit, you seem so happy.
I would think this isemotionally draining for you as
well.
Dr. Roseanna Means (46:12):
It is.
I mean, it's hard.
I live in the suburbs.
I have a backyard with lots ofbunny rabbits and chipmunks.
This time of day I look up atthe trees.
Most nights in this season ofthe year I'll come home, pour a
glass of wine, walk out to mydeck, look at the bunny rabbits
and the squirrels and thechipmunks and look up at the
trees, watch the clouds go by,you know, and just kind of
(46:34):
reconnect with nature and theworld and think about the women
and I, you know, I kind ofprocess the day and kind of put
it all into some perspective.
You know I have said thisbefore.
I don't mean to sound like aPollyanna, but I have been
incredibly blessed in my lifeand I feel like I was so lucky
(46:55):
to find this path because I havemy own life experience that I
brought into this.
That you know.
I say to people you know, don'tput me on a pedestal.
I'm, you know, not that person.
You know I do this for a reason.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (47:15):
No sorry.
Carmen Lezeth (47:16):
Not on this show, sorry, you don't know me.
You don't know me.
That's not the work on thisshow.
Dr. Roseanna Means (47:21):
Well, anyway , but I feel anyway she's like,
but anyway.
But besides that, charmin, Ijust feel like I was.
You know, the connection wasgreat.
And again, if I, you know, ifyou believe in God or the Holy
Spirit or whoever, whateverbeing in the universe speaks to
you, I feel like I, you know Imade the right connection and
(47:44):
I'm really happy about that.
So I come back, I come in and Ihave my thing, I have my drink,
I have my dinner, I watchcrappy TV, I stay away from the
news and I kind of recharge mybatteries for the next day and I
have.
Also, I have an amazing team.
I have amazing people that dothis work and and they're all
kind of completely committed anddedicated to helping these
(48:07):
women.
Many of them have the same,similar lived experience and so
they want to be able to help out.
You know it doesn't get betterthan that.
I mean, medicine has changed.
You know, medicine has becomemuch more corporate.
The things that I'm doing, thatI'm calling healthcare, like
making sure that you have a home, making sure you have enough
food, making sure you havetransportation to get to your
appointments I consider thosepart of healthcare.
(48:29):
Now, the healthcare systemdoesn't consider those part of
healthcare.
I mean they consider them sortof factors in healthcare, like
you know.
Oh, mrs Jones, you aren'teating enough protein.
Well, you better go home andeat some more protein, instead
of saying, mrs Jones, do youhave enough money for protein?
Right, and with your grocerybills, like, well, you know how
can we help you make sure youhave enough of the right kind of
(48:49):
diet?
Carmen Lezeth (48:50):
But I wonder why that changed, because I remember
I got braces for free.
I told this story beforebecause students would come into
the neighborhood, into the into, like the local JP Health
Center, remember that place andthey would.
They had students worked on myteeth and I have to tell you,
life changing because I hadteeth all in front of each other
(49:11):
, whatever.
And then I had this remarkablesmile right which is but I don't
mean it in an ego way, I'msaying it changes your
confidence, it matters, yeah.
So why don't they do thesethings anymore?
Is this a money thing?
Or it's just because it's amoney thing.
Dr. Roseanna Means (49:26):
It's a money thing, it's always about money.
It's all about money and youknow we all you know we have
like corporate marketing, wehave AI, we have, you know,
budget cuts.
You know government grant cutsand things like that.
You know people pivot to themost essential things and you
know the healthcare system isbasically controlled by the
(49:49):
insurance industry.
So you know what doctors andother providers have to do is do
the billing that's going toadhere to, whatever the
insurance companies are going tobe able to pay them so they can
keep the programs going.
There's no room for that kindof you know.
Carmen Lezeth (50:01):
Let me give out this website again, just so that
we can.
Did I just cut you off?
I think you just went blank.
Oh, okay, I do it all the time.
But you can already tell OkayAgain, if everyone who can, I
guess you can volunteer.
But you can also give somemoney, because I know some
people who listen to this show.
I know who you is Okay.
(50:22):
Because I know some people wholisten to this show, I know who
you is Okay.
Bwhgivingorg forward.
Slash bridges.
And again I want to spellbridges B-R-I-D-G-E-S.
I'm telling you, I know I'm theonly one who doesn't spell it
right, but I'm just going topretend.
A lot of people know.
Cynthia, do you have any lastquestions?
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (50:41):
So if you had a magic wand I don't, let me
, just let me make sure I'mreading this correctly If you
had a magic wand to change onepolicy that would help your
clients and organization, whatwould it be?
Dr. Roseanna Means (50:59):
If I had a magic wand to change one policy,
like a government policy or yes, yeah.
Um, I think what it would bewould be to make sure any woman
who's pregnant, under whatevercircumstances, citizen or not,
(51:20):
would have a completely freeride from the moment her
pregnancy is diagnosed until thebaby goes to kindergarten.
Mm-hmm, I love that.
I love it.
Those first five years are thedevelopmental space, the first
months, first days.
One more thing I just need tosay in our program, moms whose
(51:44):
babies end up in a neonatal ICUokay, those babies are sick and
those babies are tiny and theyneed lots and lots of care.
Those babies are sick and thosebabies are tiny and they need
lots and lots of care.
And the mom, to be a good mom,needs to be at that baby's
bedside every single day thatbaby's in the ICU.
There's no program that I knowof in Massachusetts or the
(52:05):
country that does what we do.
No matter where that woman isplaced, because she's discharged
from the hospital because shehad the baby, the baby's in the
ICU, she's done the baby.
The mom goes to a sheltersomewhere could be anywhere in
Massachusetts and to order tosee that baby.
Our program Bridges to Momsgives her a ride from wherever
she is in the state to back tothe hospital every single day
(52:29):
that baby's in the ICU make surethat mom bonds with her baby,
learns how to feed her baby andtake care of her baby, and that
baby's brain is going to growbecause that mother was there
every single day and that's youknow.
So when I say, if I had a magicwand and bazillions of dollars,
I would want that wholedevelopmental period, from you
(52:51):
know, pregnancy all the way upthrough starting kindergarten,
to be covered.
Carmen Lezeth (52:56):
It has to be quite a big one yeah, but I love
how she said magic wand andbazillion dollars like I like it
.
That's how I do it.
That's how I would do it too.
I'd be like you said magic wand, but I heard money and I gotta
say how, how.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (53:15):
I don't know how any doctor, even you like,
talk about this without crying,because I'm over here.
I don't even know if you'venoticed that my eyes are like
watering hearing these stories.
Yeah, like I don't know how youguys do it.
Dr. Roseanna Means (53:27):
Well, I cry.
I actually do cry all the time.
In fact, my team gave me forChristmas this past year.
They gave me a hat that saidmarshmallow on it, because you
know, I'm a marshmallow and itdoesn't mean I don't have nerves
of steel and I, you know, I'mnot really, I'm not afraid of
anything basically.
But when it comes to thesewomen, you know, you know, in
(53:47):
Carmen, I'm sorry, you havenever had a child of your own,
but if you are a mother, themoment you hold that baby in
your arms, you would stand infront of a moving train for that
child.
Carmen Lezeth (53:58):
Oh, I think Cynthia knows I would stand in
the middle of the train for anychild.
Dr. Roseanna Means (54:04):
Like I know these mothers would do anything
for their children and I kind offeel like I would do anything I
could to help these mothers.
You know, as being a mom anddoing everything you can to have
a healthy child is going tohave a normal, you know, normal
development, growth and goodhealth.
That's what it's all about.
And you know we do a littletiny bit, you know in what we do
(54:26):
in our program in Boston.
But you know, if the healthprofession and the government,
whatever you know, would realizehow important that is, because
it's really you pay the moneyupstream when the mom's pregnant
in those first few years, thepayoff is enormous.
Carmen Lezeth (54:41):
No, no, listen, I don't know why people don't get
that.
It's such a simple thing.
I am a productive human and Iknow it's not the same thing,
but it is.
I was a little kid with nothing, with no one.
I was nurtured, I was takencare of by so many different
people, by whatever fluke andlove of life or whatever, and I
am now a successful human beingwho contributes to society and,
(55:05):
I hope, great ways and it's like.
But that is the trajectory thatwe're talking about.
Dr. Roseanna Means (55:10):
It takes a village, it takes a village.
Yeah, somehow the villages havegone a little bit dark in
recent years.
Carmen Lezeth (55:16):
No, no no, but you know what we're doing this
and I hope you'll come back andmaybe bring your team.
Maybe we can make thissomething that we could do on a
more regular basis.
I'm not trying to exploit whatyou do, but I'm going to say
this what you do, but I'm goingto say this I think you already
know.
I think you're an incrediblehuman being.
I don't know you.
I've learned so much about youand I want to be in your
(55:40):
atmosphere in one way, shape oranother, because I think I'm a
better person for knowingsomeone like you and I think we
can all learn from you, and Iknow that you are very humble.
I can tell you're very kind andyou like to shoo that off.
I'm gonna keep reminding youand other people, but I would
love to have you back on, haveyour team on.
I know everyone's busy orwhatever.
(56:00):
We can work around people'sschedule, but maybe there's a
way in which we can do something, even if it just touches one
other person, or help somebodyelse and maybe raise some money
along the way you know.
Dr. Roseanna Means (56:11):
Well, I know our time is running short, and
so I'm going to dangle a littlepiece of candy in front of you.
Carmen Lezeth (56:20):
Chocolate cake is better, but I'll take it.
Dr. Roseanna Means (56:24):
Chocolate cake of all time.
So I'm working on another newproject.
Oh, that is not at the Brigham,it's not Bridges to Moms.
Bridges to Moms is still goingand it's still this thing.
But there is another projectthat I'm working on that it's.
Maybe sometime I can come backand talk to you about that.
So it is a I can't say too muchabout it because it's a little
(56:51):
bit of a secret right now, butit's going to be a true game
changer in maternal health forvulnerable women.
Carmen Lezeth (56:58):
Okay, well, okay, we're definitely going to have
you back.
I love this.
Thank you so much for takingthe time, and I'm not going to
say goodbye to you because we'regoing to have you back, cause
now I need to know.
I need to know what this isabout.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
We appreciate it so much,cynthia thank you for
(57:19):
introducing me to such awonderful person, and everyone
again.
I am going to put this in theshow notes as well.
I just want to say it one moretime Please remember
bwhgivingorg forward, slashbridges, please donate, find out
more information.
And thank you so much, dr Means.
(57:39):
It was a pleasure.
Bye everyone.
Thank you, remember.
At the end of the day, itreally is all about the joy.
Don't hang up.
Don't hang up yet.
Bye everyone.
Thanks for stopping by.
All about the joy.
Be better and stay beautifulfolks.
Have a sweet day.
Hi everyone, welcome to All About the Joy,
the private lounge and of courseI have Cynthia, my counterpart,
and we are so privileged tohave Dr Rosanna Means in the
house.
Did I say your first namecorrectly?
Dr. Roseanna Means (00:18):
You did.
It's like banana beans, butit's Rosanna Means.
I love it.
Carmen Lezeth (00:24):
Did you see my face?
I was like what?
So I told Cynthia that I wasgoing to embarrass you because,
first of all, I am feeling soreally privileged that you said
yes to doing this interview, andI always like to tell people
how I met you, but I've nevermet you.
This is actually Cynthia's get.
(00:45):
How did you guys meet before Iembarrass you?
Dr. Roseanna Means (00:50):
You want me to say that how we met.
Carmen Lezeth (00:52):
I'm going to do this one, because I have a lot
of questions for you, cynthia.
How did you guys meet?
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (00:57):
So we met when I started working at
Brigham and Women's at the freecenter at 850 Boylston and I was
so like intimidated by all thedoctors and everything.
And one day I'm at lunch and DrMeany just comes in and comes
and sits with the rest of uslike any normal person.
I said, oh, she's cool, I likeher.
(01:18):
So then from there we just kindof clicked and, yeah, you've
been friends ever since.
Carmen Lezeth (01:23):
Well, that's a great segue.
I know I should let my guestsspeak, but I can't do that yet.
I have to first embarrass you.
The reason why I'm actually notgoing to embarrass you you
already kind of know what I'mgoing to do, but I think it's
important, especially as a woman, as somebody who cares about.
Anyways, let me just, before Igo on my diatribe, let me just
(01:46):
say I am going to read part ofyour bio because I think it's
important for people to know whowe're talking to.
I have cut out it because, ifnot, it would be the whole 45
minutes of the show, becauseyour bio is so rich and
brilliant and who you are andwhat you have done is just
incredible.
And who you are and what youhave done is just incredible.
(02:09):
And I live in Los Angeles, Iwork for a lot of celebrities.
I never get flummoxed.
Flummoxed Is that the wordFlummoxed?
I never get excited about acelebrity, but this, this
Meeting someone like you, thisis everything for me.
So let me just go here.
Okay, dr Rosanna means MSC,which is master of science,
(02:30):
which I did not know.
So on top of being a doctor,she has a master's in science
right has been on the medicalstaff of Brigham and Women's
Hospital since completing herinternal medicine residency
there in 1984.
She is a senior staff attendingin the Division of Women's
Health and an AssociateProfessor of Medicine at Harvard
(02:51):
Medical School.
Y'all know how I'm feelingabout this already.
Dr Means is the founder and pastCEO CMO of Healthcare Without
Walls, formerly Women of Means,a nonprofit organization of
volunteer physicians and staffnurses who provide free,
bridging medical care and carecoordination for unhoused and
(03:15):
housing insecure women andfamilies in Boston.
In 2013, while at HealthcareWithout Walls, she launched
Bridges to Elders for VulnerableWomen Age 55 and Older.
That made me cry when I firstread it.
In 2016, she launched Bridgesto Moms at the Brigham and
(03:36):
Women's Hospital to Close Gapsin Healthcare Access and Social
Determinants I hope I said thatword right of health for
homeless and housing insecurepregnant women receiving
maternity care at BWH, which isBrigham Women's Hospital.
Bridges to Moms is part of theDivision of Women's Health in
(03:57):
the Department of Medicine atBWH and serves as a model of
successful, innovative wholehealth approach towards
vulnerable women, and we'regoing to get into the nitty
gritty of that once I amfinished this long ass bio and.
I read how we're going to speak.
Doc, I have another page and ahalf.
Just bear with me.
(04:17):
There's a reason why I'm doingthis.
There's a reason because I haveto do this because I believe
strong women need to always beuplifted even more when they are
in our presence.
That's just how I feel about it.
Dr Means has been recognized fordistinguished community service
by the Massachusetts MedicalSociety, healthcare for All, mit
Alumni Association, tuftsUniversity Alumni Association
(04:39):
and Harvard Medical School.
In 2008, dr Means was awardedan honorary doctor of humane
letters by Babson College.
In 2010, she was recognized asa community health leader by the
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation,and in 2011, she was named a
CNN hero, which I know ouraudience knows.
(04:59):
Okay, did you hear that?
Okay, in 2012, she wasrecognized as a woman of courage
and conviction by the Bostonchapter of the National Council
of Negro Women, and in 2017, wasnamed one of Boston's top
doctors by Boston Magazine.
I'm almost done.
(05:19):
Okay, I've cut out a lot, right, dr Means?
You know I've cut out a lot.
Okay, this is what I thoughtwas like the juicy parts, and
that's okay.
In 2021, dr Means wasrecognized by the Brigham and
Women's Hospital PhysicianOrganization with the
prestigious.
Do you say Pillar or Pilar?
Pillar, like a pillar?
(05:41):
Okay?
Pillar Award in communityservice.
Having spent over four decadesserving underserved populations.
In 2023, harvard Medical Schoolrecognized her with its Equity,
social Justice and AdvocacyAward.
In 2024, she was recognized bythe BWH Department of Medicine
(06:02):
for exemplary service Okay.
At all stages of herprofessional career, dr Means
has mentored and inspired dozensof pre-med and medical students
, nursing students and medicaltrainees.
And here's my favorite part Agraduate of MIT, bs and MSC,
which we've already discussedand Tufts University School of
(06:24):
Medicine, her MD.
She completed her residency ininternal medicine at the Brigham
and Women's Hospital in 1984.
Dr Means is a founding memberof the Friends of MIT Crew and
serves on the board of the MITCrew Alumni Association.
So, after all that, the MD ofthis sentence is about the
(06:45):
rowing team, which we also do.
So welcome to the show, right?
Welcome to the show and thankyou for all of that.
I'm inspired.
Dr. Roseanna Means (06:55):
Oh well, thank you.
I mean, I'm lifted up by thewomen that I've taken care of
all my life, so I feel blessed.
Carmen Lezeth (07:06):
Well, but why did you decide to get into that
field?
Like, what made you?
What was?
It's not the field of medicineI'm talking about.
I am talking about um, theorganization where bridges to
moms.
Like, how did that happen?
Dr. Roseanna Means (07:26):
It's an evolution of thinking.
But you know, more importantly,what happened was during my
residency.
You know, I was at the Brighamand Women's Hospital, you know,
a very prestigious Harvardteaching hospital.
I was absolutely petrified.
I mean, you hear about thingslike imposter syndrome.
I had that in spades because Ihad come from Tufts Medical
(07:50):
School, not Harvard MedicalSchool.
So I was just careful that Ididn't make a big mistake and
every time I opened my mouth andI felt so fortunate to be there
.
And then in the second year ofmy residency it's a three-year
residency they ask you if youwant to specialize and I kind of
(08:10):
follow the crowd and said, well, I think I want to be a
cardiologist, because that'swhat people do when they come to
a Harvard teaching hospital isthey do something prestigious
like that?
And so I lined up a cardiologyfellowship back at Tufts, my
alma mater for medical school,lined up a cardiology fellowship
back at Tufts, my alma materfor medical school.
And then, after that happened,it turns out that I was
contacted by a colleague and, asmany people know, the Vietnam
(08:35):
War ended in 1975.
And after the Vietnam War ended, the Vietnamese invaded
Cambodia.
The Vietnam War ended, theVietnamese invaded Cambodia and
a dictator came to power namedPol Pot and started slaughtering
everyday Cambodians.
And I was a person that grew upduring the 1960s and I was one
(08:56):
of those people that marched outof Washington and protested
against the war and we wantedpeace and all that kind of stuff
.
And so it really spoke to mebecause I thought, okay, I
really wanted to help the peopleon the other side of the world,
and so I asked my residencydirector at great peril because,
again, I was terrified that Iwould give up this incredibly
(09:17):
golden opportunity.
But I said, look, I really feelcalled to go help in this
refugee camp.
So there was a Cambodianrefugee camp and there were a
lot of international aidorganizations there.
The one I worked for was calledthe International Rescue
Committee and they still do workall over the world.
They're an amazing organization.
(09:38):
So I literally left my husband,my job, my family, and traveled
across the world and lived inthis little village in Thailand
and went into this refugee campand as I spent three months
there and I was so impressedthis is such a cliche I was so
impressed with the power of thehuman spirit, what these
(09:59):
individuals had overcome,crossing the mountains where
there were landmines.
I mean, the first thing I sawin the refugee camp was a
12-year-old boy getting his footamputated without anesthesia
Wow, the landmine that had blownoff his lower leg.
And these 100,000 refugees inthis camp and there were
(10:20):
multiple camps along the border,but they had all given up
everything to try to escape forfreedom.
And what they had done duringthat time was, um, in addition,
to just try to survive.
And, you know, figure out whatthe next step was in their lives
.
They were teaching the kidsthat you know many of them were
orphans teaching these kidstheir cultural values, their,
(10:41):
their skills, the weaving, themusic, the songs, the cultural
norms.
It was just incrediblyimpressive and I thought I would
like to be able to spend mylife taking care of people like
this, who are willing to give upeverything to find a better
path forward.
(11:02):
And so I came back to theBrigham after three months and,
instead of doing my cardiologyfellowship, I canceled my
cardiology fellowship.
I thought they were going totake me out into the middle of
Brigham circle and break mystethoscope in a public ceremony
.
Wow, you don't want to be anacademician?
What is wrong with you?
So, anyway, I followed primarycare and I soon I looked for a
(11:28):
population I could work with inBoston and I discovered that
there was a whole program thatwas beginning in Boston helping
homeless persons, and so Istarted working with them and I
also continued with my career.
I had two paths.
As Cynthia knows, I was takingcare of a very well-heeled
practice in, you know, in asuburb of Boston.
People who you know, who werelike I am.
(11:50):
They go home to a nice houseand they have health insurance
and you know all the things theyneed.
And then I would also spendhours every week going onto the
streets and into the sheltersand taking care of people who
had nothing and that reallyspoke to me.
And after I did that for a fewyears, I realized that my
background in women's health wasreally important for the women
(12:13):
that were becoming homeless.
It's a different pathway forwomen who become homeless than
it is for men and they havedifferent biologies and
different needs and differentthings.
So I left that program.
Analogies and different needsand different things.
So I left that program andreally these are all crazy ideas
, but if it inspires people, youknow, I left the program and
said I think I need to start myown nonprofit Now, did I know
(12:39):
how to start a nonprofit?
Did I know how to create abudget?
No.
Did I know how to write a grant?
No.
But what I did is I went to mychurch and I talked to the board
of outreach and I said I'vebeen volunteering in these
shelters for a number of yearsand I really want to help the
women.
Would you give me some money?
And they did so.
They gave me a little money andI started my nonprofit and that
(13:03):
grew and I spent 25 years doingthat and then Bridges to Moms
came about at the Brigham.
Again back to the academicteaching hospital, because I've
never left there.
It's been my professional home.
And in 2015, the hospitalmanagement came to me and said
you know, we have kind of acrisis on our hands.
You know, they are a tertiarycare hospital, which means
(13:25):
people refer to them.
They do very high level I meanextraordinary medicine.
It's absolutely amazing.
And so people who are verywealthy come to that hospital.
I make no bones about it.
But the one population theycouldn't understand was women
who were poor, that wereunhoused or at risk of being
unhoused, who were coming tothis hospital because it was a
(13:48):
referral hospital for high-riskpregnancies.
And so women, mostly women ofcolor in Boston, had needed to
have a place to go where theycould have their blood pressure,
their diabetes, their historyof preeclampsia, other things
addressed.
And what they were discoveringdiscovering the social workers
when these women were beingdischarged was that women would
(14:09):
look up at them before they gotin that little wheelchair to go
down to the front door and say,well, where do I go with my baby
, my baby's, two days old, wheredo I go?
And you know, what they weredoing is putting them in a taxi,
sending them down to the statehousing office.
But but you know, we all knowthat.
Well, not everybody knows.
What happens is that the lateday discharges mean that you are
(14:30):
at the state housing office inthe afternoon.
Everything is gone.
There's no shelter beds,there's no place to go at night,
and so the women would be goingthrough their phones who can I
call?
Like the boyfriend had longsince left them and they were
there with this newborn and noplace to go.
They couldn't go back to thehospital.
So this was happening.
The social workers weredistressed, the hospital leaders
(14:52):
were distressed and they cameto me because I was an expert on
homelessness and women's healthand said you know, find a way,
you know a program.
And so I did.
Carmen Lezeth (15:04):
So that's what I did, and so, just to be clear,
what your program actually doesis not only when women come to
you in their pregnancy mode.
They're in their late stages,right of pregnancy, or is it
sometimes at the beginning?
Dr. Roseanna Means (15:20):
So I'm not an obstetrician, ok, so they
come in, they're registered asobstetrics patients and that the
obstetricians and the socialworkers refer to me.
And it could be literally, youknow, the first trimester, their
first OB visit, and somebodysays, well, you know I, you know
, I, I don't know how to applyfor WIC, which is the federal
(15:40):
program that helps women.
I, I don't know how to applyfor food stamps, I'm not eating,
I don't have any money, I don'thave a job, my boyfriend left
me.
And then they hear those wordsand they go okay, we need some
help here.
And then we hear about thosepeople and our whole team goes
into action.
So we are addressing everythinghousing, transportation, to all
(16:03):
medical appointments throughoutthe pregnancy and postpartum
period, wic and SNAP, which isfood stamps safety big issue,
lots of interpersonal violence,domestic violence, trauma and,
in our immigrant community,tremendously perilous journeys
coming up through the, you know,through the Darien gap and so
(16:24):
forth and um, and making surethat they have a place to go
home with their baby.
And so we're this is our 10thyear and we we have helped
almost 800 women at this pointand 95% are women of color.
This is a group that has threeto five times the maternal
(16:46):
mortality rate.
Not a single maternal death.
Right, you have not lost anyone.
Right, we have not lost anyone.
We are.
You know.
We see these women through thepregnancy 100% placement.
Not a single family is sleepingon the streets.
Not a single family is sleepingat Logan Airport.
Not a single family is sleepingat Logan Airport.
(17:06):
Even throughout this lastimmigrant so-called crisis, we
have been taking care of ourfamilies and we follow the
family through the baby's firstyear.
Make sure that if they startout in an emergency shelter and
they need to transfer, we helpthem facilitate that transfer
shelter and they need totransfer, we help them
(17:27):
facilitate that transfer.
My team is entirely bilingual.
We make sure that if they're atrisk of eviction, we go to
housing court.
We protect them on housingcourt.
Carmen Lezeth (17:34):
We make sure that they get connected to primary
care because so you're and Idon't mean to interrupt you, but
I just want to make sure forour listeners as well.
You're providing a safety net.
You're providing a safety netfor people who have fallen
through the cracks for whateverreason.
And one of the things I mean Ihave no reason to believe you
(17:55):
know anything about me, but mytrigger is when we talk about
homeless people.
I get really upset with peoplenot you, but people who don't
understand the situation at all.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhy some of these women find
themselves in this situation, asopposed to people just thinking
, you know, oh, they're justtaking advantage of Dr Means.
(18:17):
That's what they're doingbecause it's free.
They're getting everything forfree.
Dr. Roseanna Means (18:20):
They're getting free healthcare you know
, well, you know, nothing isfree as you know it.
But you know, so many of thesewomen are women from sort of 17,
18 on up to like early 50s thathave been referred to us, and
the typical kind of situation isthat they're in a relationship.
(18:41):
Very often in theserelationships the man is not
willing to use birth control.
We know that.
And they get pregnant.
They think they're not going toget pregnant.
They get pregnant and, um, andthen, as soon as they announced
to their partner that they'repregnant, they're there, the
partner's gone, okay.
So somebody who might'vepromised oh, I've got a job, I
(19:02):
can take care of you, or I wantto be the father of your baby, I
want to raise your children, Iwant to do job, I can take care
of you.
Or I want to be the father ofyour baby, I want to raise your
children, I want to do this, I'mgoing to do that.
Carmen Lezeth (19:13):
And let me make it clear, I'm not a man hater.
Dr. Roseanna Means (19:14):
I love men, I love men too, but this is
harder to be with you, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (19:34):
The relationship is fraught and it's not it'sB
which is like no she did it, butthey've been abandoned.
Dr. Roseanna Means (19:39):
And you know , I would say I'm not kidding
About 70% of the women areworking.
They're working full-time,they're working part-time and
the cost of living just is notcutting it.
And so the cost of rent, thecost of groceries, the cost of
supplies, the cost of utilities,transportation, everything is
(20:00):
costing way too much.
And people would be surprised.
Some of the people that comethrough our program, we've had
nurses, we've had secretaries,we've had hospital workers, I've
had people who are employees atmy hospital, who have been
referred to my program.
I mean, it is incredible, and Ithink the general public
(20:22):
doesn't realize that there is awhole part of our society that
is doing the best they can andthey are working, they're
following all the rules, they'redoing everything they were told
to do and it's not enough.
You know everything costs toomuch and they can't make ends
meet and the rents keep going up.
And then they, you know, ifthey go into an apartment with a
(20:44):
guy and the guy leaves, thensuddenly they're stuck paying
the rent for the landlord.
Carmen Lezeth (20:50):
And there's not.
You know, not everyone hasextended family and has.
Yeah, I mean, it's not like youcan call your mom and dad and
be like can I just get a littlemore money from my trust fund?
Like I have people who don'tunderstand.
I mean, we're laughing about it, but I work for pretty wealthy
people and if you even talk tosome of their kids who are you
(21:12):
know, some of them are olderthan me they're just they don't
understand that.
They're like, well, worst case,I'll have to go get a loan on
my own.
Dr. Roseanna Means (21:20):
Like no, like you know, there's no.
You know, aunt Berthatha, unclecharlie, that's going to slip
you a $20 bill.
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn'thappen.
Now I will tell you and I, ifthis ever plays at my hospital,
I'm sorry, but this is who I amI have been known to slip a $20
bill to my patients because theyparked at the brigham.
(21:42):
They were able to, they wereliving out of their car, or you
know, they were borrowing a car.
They parked at the brigham andthey were living out of their
car, or you know, they wereborrowing a car.
They parked at the Brigham.
And they come to my clinic andthey I say, how did you get here
?
I always ask how they get there, because doctors don't ask how
people got to their office.
They think it's magic.
And they, you know, and I saidthey parked in.
You know they use valet parkingand so forth, and I said, okay,
just give me a second here.
I leave the room and come backand I just give them an envelope
(22:05):
and I say, look, you know youneed to, you need to be able to.
You know, do this.
And, by the way, we providetransportation and we also
provide, by the way, tickets tothe hospital cafeteria.
So when they come, when theycome to our program, anytime
they come to the hospital fortheir prenatal care, many of
them have not had something toeat that day, that entire day.
(22:27):
And so what we go in, we get onthese tickets.
We say you need to eat lots ofprotein, you know if they have
other kids with them.
They say go get some pizza orsome ice cream, you know.
Just, you know you need to takecare of yourself.
So that's just life, you knowyou got to do.
Carmen Lezeth (22:44):
You got to treat it as part of healthcare
basically, I'm going to letCynthia like get one question in
.
Dr. Roseanna Means (22:54):
Okay, I'm ready, I'm ready.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (22:57):
What's the most difficult part of you doing
this, like doing the wholething, like what do you find is
the most difficult part of yourjob or part of the program?
Dr. Roseanna Means (23:10):
Yeah For the Bridges to Moms program.
There's a tremendous amount ofabsolutely wonderful moments in
this program.
The difficult part is that Iwish I had, you know, a million
dollars.
I wish I had ways to help thewomen even more.
For instance, we give them giftcards to buy things like
(23:30):
strollers and car seats and babysupplies, because of course
nobody's thinking about thisstuff, you know.
So to me it's part ofhealthcare, but but the most
difficult thing is when the babydies.
That's the hardest part,because we had no maternal
mortality and it's very, veryrare.
(23:52):
But some of these women, whenthey come to us, their first
prenatal visit is like 32 weeksof pregnancy.
Carmen Lezeth (23:59):
Okay Okay.
I've never been pregnant, so Idon't know what that means.
Dr. Roseanna Means (24:02):
It's 40 weeks, so 32 weeks is just you
know you're right there ready tofrom you know from from
delivery.
Carmen Lezeth (24:10):
So when, when you're first pregnant and I know
people who listen I'm going tobe like oh, carmen is so dumb.
When's your first regularappointment?
When you find out you'repregnant, when are you supposed
to?
Dr. Roseanna Means (24:20):
go.
It varies.
So it should be like you missyour period and you think, okay,
you start doing the counting onyour fingers Like, what about
this?
And when did I last have sex,and stuff like that, and then it
might be you miss a secondperiod and then generally people
do a home pregnancy test andfind out.
But you know, for people whoare poor it costs money to buy a
home pregnancy test, Right.
So sometimes they don't knowuntil they're really far along
(24:43):
and they might have cramps, theymight go to an emergency room
and then someone will do apregnancy test.
So it can be any way, from like11 weeks of pregnancy early on
until, like I say, people whohave had no prenatal care for
various reasons, and for some ofthe women who came through the
immigrant journey, sometimesthey will come through Mexico,
(25:04):
central America, when they'repregnant and come here and
they've had no prenatal care.
But when the baby dies it's for, you know, the baby has had not
enough nourishment duringpregnancy, not enough prenatal
care.
There were fetal abnormalitiesfor various reasons or genetic
things.
That happen.
It happens in all pregnancies.
(25:25):
I mean there's, you know,there's a certain number of
these that don't end well.
But in the case of these women,it's so hard because, when
they're pregnant, these womenare so determined to be a good
mother.
They've given up everything andthey've just focusing on this
baby, no matter where they comefrom, whether they're Boston,
(25:45):
they've come in from California,they've come in from, you know,
haiti or Venezuela.
Wherever they're coming from,they're right in front of us.
We're there.
It's our obligation to takecare of them, and we are more
than happy to do so.
And we do everything we can tomake that journey as easy for
them as we can, with all thethings I mentioned.
But if, inevitably, the babydies, it's a very, very sad
(26:14):
thing, and so we, of course,embrace that woman, we comfort
her, we do whatever we can.
We have been known to pay forfunerals because sometimes
that's the only resource thatthey have, and we do that as a
gift to the women.
They don't ask, they never ask.
Carmen Lezeth (26:29):
I do want to just give the.
I'm sorry, I'm so thrown whenyou just said about the baby
dying and then the funeral.
I'm sorry, see, Cynthia, thisis why I didn't want her on the
show.
Cynthia knows I get a lot ofpeople who like requests to be
(26:49):
on the show, and they usuallythrough LinkedIn or whatever,
and I have to vet them.
And you know as much as I'dlike to say we have a huge staff
or whatever.
We're a tiny little boutique.
So Cynthia says hey, we weretalking about homelessness the
other day.
I thought I'd have Dr Means on.
You know she helps homelesspregnant women.
I'm like what is wrong with you?
Dr. Roseanna Means (27:09):
I don't want to talk about this, but but you
know I but, carmen, let me tellyou a great story, cause we had
a woman that happened to youknow, a little over a year ago,
year and a half ago, she, herbaby, died and it was tragic, it
was awful, and she had to.
She had to go through theentire grieving process, which
she did.
But listen to this this woman,within about six months, she had
(27:35):
signed up for classes, she, shehad took English classes, she
took training lessons, she, she,just this this month, moved
into her own and she hascompleted her training as a home
health aide.
Wow, and this is somebody whodealt with the loss, grieved it
(27:55):
appropriately, was able to putit all together.
Of course, she got counselingand so forth, but she put her
whole life together.
She took a deep breath, shemoved forward and look at her.
You know what, 18 months later?
Carmen Lezeth (28:09):
I mean, that is incredible courage and
resilience, no, and that's whyyour program is so important,
and let me just give for theaudio, if you want to give and
everyone should give something.
Who's listening?
That's me being very kind.
But bwhgivingorg forward, slashbridges.
(28:30):
And if anyone is like me whoalways spells bridges wrong, I'm
going to spell it out for you.
It's B-R-I-D-G-E-S.
So again, bwhgivingorg forward,slash bridges.
That's where you can donatemoney and everyone could give a
little something to help anotherwoman who needs assistance,
(28:54):
like if we all gave a little bit, even if it's like $5 a dollar,
we can help and do somethingbig to help another woman in
distress who needs just a littlenurturing.
And that's kind of the thing is.
You just talked about thislovely woman who went through
all this trauma and then turnedher life around, right?
(29:15):
Or I'm not even going to saythat.
She just walked through thesteps and did what she needed to
do and became who she issupposed to be in that moment,
and she did it with support.
We all need support.
Dr. Roseanna Means (29:27):
Yeah, we all need nurturing.
Yes, and I don't know howpeople don't get that.
Yeah, she did it.
She did it with support.
We supported her, but she didit with an incredible grace and
focus and I think you know.
I think that when you'retalking to me about what was the
hardest thing about about whatI do, when you were talking to
me about what was the hardestthing about what I do, the
hardest thing is is is being onthat journey with somebody who
(29:49):
has such a profound loss.
It's also part of the joy iswhat you see when the women have
gone through that journey andhave come out the other side,
and I will share with you andalso with your audience, that I
also lost a baby duringpregnancy.
I had a baby that died at 27weeks of pregnancy and it was a
little girl, and I have threesons.
(30:10):
So when a woman loses her baby,I feel very fortunate that I
can be the person that helps herget through that moment.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (30:24):
That's incredible for anyone like
listening who can't donatemonetarily.
Are there other things thatthey could do to help?
Dr. Roseanna Means (30:37):
um, um, it's hard.
You know, we are like you'resaying, we are kind of a small
group and we do this.
We have two events.
If they're in Boston.
We have two events every yearthat we provide for the women.
One is a day of beauty in Mayaround Mother's Day, and the
other is career day in the fall.
Volunteers for those events,because that's, you know, that
(31:05):
takes up a lot, of, a lot oftime and the biggest role for
volunteers is watching thebabies during these events.
Oh right, competition for thatvolunteer role.
But let me tell you about theDay of Beauty, because it's the
coolest thing.
So, day of Beauty, we decide,you know, the women come to us
one by one, Okay.
So we have a hundred or 150women a year that get referred
to us and they meet us and wehave that one conversation and
(31:25):
then they're assigned to one ofour case managers community
health workers, and we have afull-time social worker as well
and they go off and you know wecontinue to do this, help for
them.
But you know they don't knoweach other.
I mean, everybody feels likeI'm I'm doing this by myself
myself.
I am having the worst time ofmy life, like nobody could
(31:45):
possibly be as miserable as I amright now.
I've got a baby coming, I haveno money, nobody's talking to me
, the boyfriend left me, youknow.
So we all do that.
And then we decided but thesewomen need, they need a tribe,
they need a network.
You know we all need to bearound each other.
So we designed these two eventsto bring them together into one
(32:06):
room.
So the Day of Beauty is thecoolest thing because it comes
around Mother's Day.
It's for the moms who've justhad their babies.
They've been through this wholething.
They've had their babies and afew of them that are about to
burst.
We weren't sure, so we bringthem in anyway.
And we have this in a you knowbig building at the Brigham and
we provide it's all free, youknow, free transportation to and
(32:29):
from the event, uh, free foodall day, free child care, which
I told you is a volunteer, andthen, um, but they get free
hairstyling, makeup, makeup andmanicures.
And the first year we invitedpeople from the community that
we all knew, who came in anddonated their services.
(32:49):
But we just had our third one.
And this year almost everysingle person who provided
services was a woman who hadbeen through our program, who
knew how to style hair, knew howto do makeup and wanted to give
back.
And you know it's just like thecoolest thing.
And so the women all get tolike mix and mingle and talk
(33:10):
trade stories, trade phone youknow phone numbers and you know
they meet each other as babies.
The babies play together and,um, this year we had a photo
booth so after they lookedbeautiful, they could have a
picture taken.
Oh, that's so cool.
And then another woman who's adoula, which is a birth doula,
(33:31):
who was in another program thatwe work with.
She also makes this incrediblejewelry, and so she came down
and she gave every woman her ownbeautiful piece of jewelry oh,
that's so cool.
Yeah, every woman her ownbeautiful piece of hand-made
clothing.
Yeah, and they get goodie bags.
And they get goodie bags forbabies with age-appropriate
clothing and diapers and soforth, and gift cards and so
forth.
So Day of Beauty is really cool, and then Career Day in the
(33:55):
fall is introducing the womensame thing food, transportation
and so forth and meeting eachother.
But we also give them a chanceto learn about training
opportunities, educationalopportunities and so forth, and
even during the year we have aworkforce development
coordinator who connects withall these women and finds out
what they want to learn andconnects them to educational
(34:17):
classes, training programs andanytime anybody in our program
gets a certificate or anything.
It could be a first aid courseor care assistant, anything.
They get another gift card.
Carmen Lezeth (34:31):
Oh, wow, really.
Oh, that's so cool.
Dr. Roseanna Means (34:33):
As a reward for the accomplishment.
Carmen Lezeth (34:35):
Did you know you were going to be doing this when
you were a little girl?
Dr. Roseanna Means (34:39):
No, I wanted to be an angel.
People asked me when I waslittle what I wanted to be.
I mean, look, I've got the hair.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (34:46):
I think that's kind of sort of what
you're doing, though right theirony.
Dr. Roseanna Means (34:52):
I mean, you kind of said it as a joke, but
it's kind of you know, I justfeel like the universe leads you
to where your place is supposedto be and to me it gives me
great joy and I feel it's mycalling and it certainly is my
sense of purpose in the worldand I think we all do better if
we have a sense of purpose, andthis is my purpose.
Carmen Lezeth (35:14):
What do you see as the problem when people like
I get really incensed for a verydifferent reason, when people
you know we treat dogs, straydogs Like.
If I see one more commercial ofno offense to dog owners but it
drives me insane.
You know the sad music and thepoor dog or whatever.
(35:35):
But those same people will beon the street and for no reason
whatsoever, snicker at ahomeless person and be mean and
cruel or say something mean.
So what do you think we can doas individuals to be better
about that?
Or why do you think we reactthat way?
I'm just curious.
Dr. Roseanna Means (35:56):
Well, I think we react that way out of
ignorance and fear.
You know, I don't think it's.
If people really knew thepeople that they were behaving
towards, it would, it would be adifferent situation.
But you know, we have asocietal problem.
We don't, we do not have thepolitical will under either
political party to change thesituation.
It's a terrible, terriblesituation.
And you're right.
(36:17):
I mean, I know in Massachusettsthere are more shelters for
animals than there are for women, and people also hear the
stories.
They hear the story about thebag lady who had $100,000 under
a mattress, or somebody who wasmasquerading as an addict and
got away with something, and Ithink people just don't
(36:38):
understand, when I was workingin the women's shelters in
Boston, that for the women whodidn't have children, um, I
would ask them, like, what isthe one thing that drives you
crazy the most about?
You know it's the averagepublic and it's really being
ignored.
It's like if you see someone onthe street who's panhandling,
instead of walking by or turningyour head and ignoring them,
just say, hey, how you doing nowgood morning, or yeah, all the
(37:00):
time for money.
Mean, if I gave people money onthe street, you know, over the
past 40 years?
Carmen Lezeth (37:07):
I'd be broke.
I said to someone the other dayI'm like nobody carries cash
anymore and he's like funny,because he was like I have a
credit card machine.
I was like you do.
He was like no, I don't.
But it was an interaction,having a conversation with
somebody.
Dr. Roseanna Means (37:23):
Recognizing that they're another human being
.
Carmen Lezeth (37:25):
Yes.
Dr. Roseanna Means (37:27):
So that's important.
But I got to tell you a reallyfunny story because there was
one day this woman whounfortunately has passed on I
love this woman I mean I loveall the women, but I love this
woman and she was pretty streetsmart, pretty tough, and she was
to come down to the shelterthat I worked in in downtown
Boston, and and in one day I waswalking down downtown Boston I
(37:49):
saw her, saw her on the streetwith a little cup and she was
shaking the cup, trying to getpeople to put money in her cup.
This is many years ago whenpeople did cash carry in their
pockets and it was the day of aRed Sox game, so people were
sort of pouring through downtownBoston to get to Fenway Park
and lots of people, so she had,you know, lots of attention of
people.
And so I saw her and I said,hey, how you doing?
And she said, hey, dr Rosanna,that's what they call me.
(38:11):
Hey, dr Rosanna, how are you?
And I said fine, and I sat downon the curb next to her and I
said, talking to her, chit, chat, okay, so I'm doing everything
I just told you people should do, right, right.
So you know, after a fewminutes she started, starts to
like she's rattling her cup overhere, she's doing this, she's
doing this and you know, and Iand I I'm trying to talk to her
(38:56):
she says hold on, hold, have tolet yourself go a little bit and
be real with people.
But it is true, it you know andbe real with people.
But it is true.
There are people on the streetwho have severe mental illness
untreated and who have otherproblems with substance use and
all sorts of things, and some ofthem are dangerous.
Some of the men are ex-convicts.
It is true that that is areality of the population, but
(39:20):
we have not figured out as asociety how to get help to
people that is lasting.
Yes, you could have streetteams, you can have harm
reduction programs, you can doall these things, you can do
needle exchanges.
All those things are good, butthey're not permanent solutions.
Carmen Lezeth (39:38):
Well, the thing you don't know about me and of
course, cynthia knows becauseshe's my cousin, but she's also
known me but I mean, I thinkthat you know, I lost my mom
when I was really young and Idon't have a father and, long
story short, I ended up on thestreet.
So I was on the streets inBoston for a long time.
(39:58):
Someone, whether it was ateacher or someone I danced with
, or some of the parents, all ofthose people chipped in and
tried to help so I wouldn't fallthrough the cracks.
So there were just all thesepeople on the way.
And this is what people don'tunderstand, the reason why I get
so incensed about it.
It's like it doesn't take muchto be a good, decent person, and
(40:20):
every time you say that youwould be there for someone and
then you treat a homeless personthe way you do, that's how I
know you're a liar.
Dr. Roseanna Means (40:31):
It's true, and that's why, when I say I
give out a $20 bill from time totime, you know what?
Okay, so I'm not going to havepizza this weekend.
Big deal.
I have a safety net.
I'm more comfortable than thepeople that I'm talking about
here, and so why can't I give upa meal out?
I once did a calculation,actually, of what we spend as
(40:52):
Americans on pizza every year.
It was in the billions.
I'm thinking okay, if everybodygave up a pizza one day a week,
it would probably solve thehomelessness problem in this
country.
Carmen Lezeth (41:04):
Isn't that so weird?
Or one coffee, although I knowpeople need their coffee, but
like I drink coffee at home, Imake it, but even like a $7
coffee.
I was out with my niece theother day and what are the
matcha?
I've never had a matcha thing,but it was $7.
(41:25):
Cynthia, you know I'm not cheap.
You know, like I don't knowyour $20 thing we're going to
have to talk later because Iknow you make more money than I
do, but I'm like $7 for a matcha.
I was like no, it's crazy.
It's crazy.
Yeah, people talk a lot aboutwanting to help and I know
(41:46):
people mean well, we had aconversation on one of our other
shows.
I was trying to explain topeople that the thing about
homeless people that you don'tunderstand is that when they
have a bad day, they've beenhaving them one right after the
other.
So when they get a little bitof money and they want to get a
drink, I'm not mad at them.
I come home from my plush job,into my nice little home near
(42:09):
the beach and the first thing Iwant to do is have a drink.
Why would I think?
when someone's having amiserable time, I'm not excusing
it, I'm trying to make peoplerelate to the idea that
homelessness is not somethingthat can't happen at any moment,
to any one of us, at any time.
Dr. Roseanna Means (42:25):
Well, I think you're also talking about
how people, when they give moneyto someone on the street like
that, it's kind of like with asense of there are strings
attached, that I want to givethis to you but you better not
don't use it on that, thing,Right If that's going to bother
you.
if you're going to connect aface with your moral outrage,
(42:46):
then give to an organizationlike mine or like other programs
that help homeless persons,because the help is really
desperately needed.
And if you go into this with asense of moral judgment about it
, then you really don't have theright attitude.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (43:02):
And instead of buying the pizza for yourself
, buy a pizza for the homeless.
Dr. Roseanna Means (43:05):
That's what I yeah, I mean I literally would
bring food to people I'd see inthe street.
I'd bring coffee, or bringdonuts or breakfast sandwich or
something like that.
If, if you know, if you don'thave cash, you can go get
something at a local store, giveit to them.
Carmen Lezeth (43:18):
Or you can just be kind oh my God Also, just be
kind and not be mean to homelesspeople.
I, yeah, I it's.
It's one of my biggest petpeeves, especially because here
in Los Angeles and I live rightnear the beach and so there's a
lot of homeless people and I'mnot mad about it I'm like if I
(43:39):
was homeless, I would have flownto LA too back then, cause it's
warm, it's nice here, we haveprograms, like there's a reason
why people are here, but it'sall over the country.
We have a problem.
We have a problem.
Dr. Roseanna Means (43:52):
Yeah, we do have a problem, but it's, you
know it's.
It's not that there's notcapacity, it's that they you
know it's a this is a biggerconversation, but it's there.
There aren't enough shelterbeds.
There aren't enough treatmentprograms.
They're not used to be like yougo into detox, then you go to
rehab and then you go to a sickhalfway house and people don't
(44:12):
do that anymore.
It takes time to go fromhomeless in the streets and
dealing with alcohol or drugsand then getting your life back
together.
You can't just snap yourfingers and have it happen.
Carmen Lezeth (44:23):
And everyone who's homeless is not someone
who isn't like.
I know people who were educated, who, like you, were talking
about all the lists like.
There are people.
It's not about just being somescuzzy, poor person who does it
who's lazy and an alcoholic.
That is not true.
If you took a moment andunderstood the person that was
(44:43):
panhandling, you might learnthat they were some famous
musician or whatever.
They could have been a doctor.
Dr. Roseanna Means (44:49):
They could have been a lawyer and just fell
into hard times it really itdoes happen, but it is like I
mentioned before.
There's fear and ignorance, andsometimes people are so unable
to handle those emotions inthemselves that they kind of
project you know qualities ontopeople that would make it okay
for them to judge that personharshly, and that's just.
(45:10):
I think that's a weakness ontheir part as individuals and we
just have to work on that as asociety.
Carmen Lezeth (45:15):
So I have a question because I so.
For me it's really hard to workwith homeless people and it's
really hard for me to work withteenagers, and I know for myself
well, it's just because thatwas my life.
No, teenagers are like thehardest group to work with, to
(45:42):
do volunteer work somewhere.
So I was like I'm going to goyou know where I know and I'm
going to, and I couldn't do it.
It was emotionally too drainingand so I volunteer in other
ways and other organizationsbecause I think it was just too
close to me, right?
So my question for you is ishow do you emotionally keep
yourself?
I mean, you have such a greatspirit, you seem so happy.
I would think this isemotionally draining for you as
well.
Dr. Roseanna Means (46:12):
It is.
I mean, it's hard.
I live in the suburbs.
I have a backyard with lots ofbunny rabbits and chipmunks.
This time of day I look up atthe trees.
Most nights in this season ofthe year I'll come home, pour a
glass of wine, walk out to mydeck, look at the bunny rabbits
and the squirrels and thechipmunks and look up at the
trees, watch the clouds go by,you know, and just kind of
(46:34):
reconnect with nature and theworld and think about the women
and I, you know, I kind ofprocess the day and kind of put
it all into some perspective.
You know I have said thisbefore.
I don't mean to sound like aPollyanna, but I have been
incredibly blessed in my lifeand I feel like I was so lucky
(46:55):
to find this path because I havemy own life experience that I
brought into this.
That you know.
I say to people you know, don'tput me on a pedestal.
I'm, you know, not that person.
You know I do this for a reason.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (47:15):
No sorry.
Carmen Lezeth (47:16):
Not on this show, sorry, you don't know me.
You don't know me.
That's not the work on thisshow.
Dr. Roseanna Means (47:21):
Well, anyway , but I feel anyway she's like,
but anyway.
But besides that, charmin, Ijust feel like I was.
You know, the connection wasgreat.
And again, if I, you know, ifyou believe in God or the Holy
Spirit or whoever, whateverbeing in the universe speaks to
you, I feel like I, you know Imade the right connection and
(47:44):
I'm really happy about that.
So I come back, I come in and Ihave my thing, I have my drink,
I have my dinner, I watchcrappy TV, I stay away from the
news and I kind of recharge mybatteries for the next day and I
have.
Also, I have an amazing team.
I have amazing people that dothis work and and they're all
kind of completely committed anddedicated to helping these
(48:07):
women.
Many of them have the same,similar lived experience and so
they want to be able to help out.
You know it doesn't get betterthan that.
I mean, medicine has changed.
You know, medicine has becomemuch more corporate.
The things that I'm doing, thatI'm calling healthcare, like
making sure that you have a home, making sure you have enough
food, making sure you havetransportation to get to your
appointments I consider thosepart of healthcare.
(48:29):
Now, the healthcare systemdoesn't consider those part of
healthcare.
I mean they consider them sortof factors in healthcare, like
you know.
Oh, mrs Jones, you aren'teating enough protein.
Well, you better go home andeat some more protein, instead
of saying, mrs Jones, do youhave enough money for protein?
Right, and with your grocerybills, like, well, you know how
can we help you make sure youhave enough of the right kind of
(48:49):
diet?
Carmen Lezeth (48:50):
But I wonder why that changed, because I remember
I got braces for free.
I told this story beforebecause students would come into
the neighborhood, into the into, like the local JP Health
Center, remember that place andthey would.
They had students worked on myteeth and I have to tell you,
life changing because I hadteeth all in front of each other
(49:11):
, whatever.
And then I had this remarkablesmile right which is but I don't
mean it in an ego way, I'msaying it changes your
confidence, it matters, yeah.
So why don't they do thesethings anymore?
Is this a money thing?
Or it's just because it's amoney thing.
Dr. Roseanna Means (49:26):
It's a money thing, it's always about money.
It's all about money and youknow we all you know we have
like corporate marketing, wehave AI, we have, you know,
budget cuts.
You know government grant cutsand things like that.
You know people pivot to themost essential things and you
know the healthcare system isbasically controlled by the
(49:49):
insurance industry.
So you know what doctors andother providers have to do is do
the billing that's going toadhere to, whatever the
insurance companies are going tobe able to pay them so they can
keep the programs going.
There's no room for that kindof you know.
Carmen Lezeth (50:01):
Let me give out this website again, just so that
we can.
Did I just cut you off?
I think you just went blank.
Oh, okay, I do it all the time.
But you can already tell OkayAgain, if everyone who can, I
guess you can volunteer.
But you can also give somemoney, because I know some
people who listen to this show.
I know who you is Okay.
(50:22):
Because I know some people wholisten to this show, I know who
you is Okay.
Bwhgivingorg forward.
Slash bridges.
And again I want to spellbridges B-R-I-D-G-E-S.
I'm telling you, I know I'm theonly one who doesn't spell it
right, but I'm just going topretend.
A lot of people know.
Cynthia, do you have any lastquestions?
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (50:41):
So if you had a magic wand I don't, let me
, just let me make sure I'mreading this correctly If you
had a magic wand to change onepolicy that would help your
clients and organization, whatwould it be?
Dr. Roseanna Means (50:59):
If I had a magic wand to change one policy,
like a government policy or yes, yeah.
Um, I think what it would bewould be to make sure any woman
who's pregnant, under whatevercircumstances, citizen or not,
(51:20):
would have a completely freeride from the moment her
pregnancy is diagnosed until thebaby goes to kindergarten.
Mm-hmm, I love that.
I love it.
Those first five years are thedevelopmental space, the first
months, first days.
One more thing I just need tosay in our program, moms whose
(51:44):
babies end up in a neonatal ICUokay, those babies are sick and
those babies are tiny and theyneed lots and lots of care.
Those babies are sick and thosebabies are tiny and they need
lots and lots of care.
And the mom, to be a good mom,needs to be at that baby's
bedside every single day thatbaby's in the ICU.
There's no program that I knowof in Massachusetts or the
(52:05):
country that does what we do.
No matter where that woman isplaced, because she's discharged
from the hospital because shehad the baby, the baby's in the
ICU, she's done the baby.
The mom goes to a sheltersomewhere could be anywhere in
Massachusetts and to order tosee that baby.
Our program Bridges to Momsgives her a ride from wherever
she is in the state to back tothe hospital every single day
(52:29):
that baby's in the ICU make surethat mom bonds with her baby,
learns how to feed her baby andtake care of her baby, and that
baby's brain is going to growbecause that mother was there
every single day and that's youknow.
So when I say, if I had a magicwand and bazillions of dollars,
I would want that wholedevelopmental period, from you
(52:51):
know, pregnancy all the way upthrough starting kindergarten,
to be covered.
Carmen Lezeth (52:56):
It has to be quite a big one yeah, but I love
how she said magic wand andbazillion dollars like I like it
.
That's how I do it.
That's how I would do it too.
I'd be like you said magic wand, but I heard money and I gotta
say how, how.
Cynthia Ruiz Lopez (53:15):
I don't know how any doctor, even you like,
talk about this without crying,because I'm over here.
I don't even know if you'venoticed that my eyes are like
watering hearing these stories.
Yeah, like I don't know how youguys do it.
Dr. Roseanna Means (53:27):
Well, I cry.
I actually do cry all the time.
In fact, my team gave me forChristmas this past year.
They gave me a hat that saidmarshmallow on it, because you
know, I'm a marshmallow and itdoesn't mean I don't have nerves
of steel and I, you know, I'mnot really, I'm not afraid of
anything basically.
But when it comes to thesewomen, you know, you know, in
(53:47):
Carmen, I'm sorry, you havenever had a child of your own,
but if you are a mother, themoment you hold that baby in
your arms, you would stand infront of a moving train for that
child.
Carmen Lezeth (53:58):
Oh, I think Cynthia knows I would stand in
the middle of the train for anychild.
Dr. Roseanna Means (54:04):
Like I know these mothers would do anything
for their children and I kind offeel like I would do anything I
could to help these mothers.
You know, as being a mom anddoing everything you can to have
a healthy child is going tohave a normal, you know, normal
development, growth and goodhealth.
That's what it's all about.
And you know we do a littletiny bit, you know in what we do
(54:26):
in our program in Boston.
But you know, if the healthprofession and the government,
whatever you know, would realizehow important that is, because
it's really you pay the moneyupstream when the mom's pregnant
in those first few years, thepayoff is enormous.
Carmen Lezeth (54:41):
No, no, listen, I don't know why people don't get
that.
It's such a simple thing.
I am a productive human and Iknow it's not the same thing,
but it is.
I was a little kid with nothing, with no one.
I was nurtured, I was takencare of by so many different
people, by whatever fluke andlove of life or whatever, and I
am now a successful human beingwho contributes to society and,
(55:05):
I hope, great ways and it's like.
But that is the trajectory thatwe're talking about.
Dr. Roseanna Means (55:10):
It takes a village, it takes a village.
Yeah, somehow the villages havegone a little bit dark in
recent years.
Carmen Lezeth (55:16):
No, no no, but you know what we're doing this
and I hope you'll come back andmaybe bring your team.
Maybe we can make thissomething that we could do on a
more regular basis.
I'm not trying to exploit whatyou do, but I'm going to say
this what you do, but I'm goingto say this I think you already
know.
I think you're an incrediblehuman being.
I don't know you.
I've learned so much about youand I want to be in your
(55:40):
atmosphere in one way, shape oranother, because I think I'm a
better person for knowingsomeone like you and I think we
can all learn from you, and Iknow that you are very humble.
I can tell you're very kind andyou like to shoo that off.
I'm gonna keep reminding youand other people, but I would
love to have you back on, haveyour team on.
I know everyone's busy orwhatever.
(56:00):
We can work around people'sschedule, but maybe there's a
way in which we can do something, even if it just touches one
other person, or help somebodyelse and maybe raise some money
along the way you know.
Dr. Roseanna Means (56:11):
Well, I know our time is running short, and
so I'm going to dangle a littlepiece of candy in front of you.
Carmen Lezeth (56:20):
Chocolate cake is better, but I'll take it.
Dr. Roseanna Means (56:24):
Chocolate cake of all time.
So I'm working on another newproject.
Oh, that is not at the Brigham,it's not Bridges to Moms.
Bridges to Moms is still goingand it's still this thing.
But there is another projectthat I'm working on that it's.
Maybe sometime I can come backand talk to you about that.
So it is a I can't say too muchabout it because it's a little
(56:51):
bit of a secret right now, butit's going to be a true game
changer in maternal health forvulnerable women.
Carmen Lezeth (56:58):
Okay, well, okay, we're definitely going to have
you back.
I love this.
Thank you so much for takingthe time, and I'm not going to
say goodbye to you because we'regoing to have you back, cause
now I need to know.
I need to know what this isabout.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
We appreciate it so much,cynthia thank you for
(57:19):
introducing me to such awonderful person, and everyone
again.
I am going to put this in theshow notes as well.
I just want to say it one moretime Please remember
bwhgivingorg forward, slashbridges, please donate, find out
more information.
And thank you so much, dr Means.
(57:39):
It was a pleasure.
Bye everyone.
Thank you, remember.
At the end of the day, itreally is all about the joy.
Don't hang up.
Don't hang up yet.
Bye everyone.
Thanks for stopping by.
All about the joy.
Be better and stay beautifulfolks.
Have a sweet day.
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