Ep 100: Revenge in Kaufman County, Part II

Episode Transcript
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(00:37):
Hello everyone, and welcome back toanother episode of All crand No Cattle.
I'm Shaye, Hi'm Aaron, andtoday we are coming back to our two
parter for a conclusion, the Revengein Kaufman County Part two. I'm really
interested in getting to the bottom ofwhat happened in this case, and I
can't wait to get to it.But I also have to point out that

(00:58):
this is our centennial mark for theshow. We've hit one hundred episodes of
All Cattle. Who would have believedit? I would not have when we
first started. The show is kindof a lark, and now here we
are at one hundred episodes. It'skind of crazy. Yeah, very exciting.
If we had maybe planned it aheadof schedule, we wouldn't have had
the one hundredth episode on a twoparter, so we could have had maybe

(01:21):
a special episode. But maybe wecan do something special in the future in
the next month or two. Yeah, next month is the anniversary of the
show. Maybe we can do somethingspecial next month. Yeah, there we
go. Well, until then,let's get down to business and let's start
this episode. Yeah, let's beginwith a short synopsis of part one.
We learned about Kaufman County Assistant DistrictAttorney Mark Hasse, who was gunned down

(01:42):
on his way to the courthouse onemorning in late January twenty thirteen. His
murder triggered a massive response, anda specialized task force made of local,
state, and federal agencies joined togetherin the small town of Kaufman to investigate.
The immediate conclusion was that Mark hadbeen murdered in the line of duty,
with his killers targeting him in retaliationfor a case that he had prosecuted.

(02:07):
But Mark had prosecuted hundreds of casesin his career, so the possibilities
seemed endless. While the media jumpedon reporting the speculation that Mark was targeted
by the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas orMexican drug cartels, the reality was law
enforcement didn't really think they were responsible, but the only other lead they had

(02:29):
was disgraced ex Justice of the PeaceEric Williams, who Mark had prosecuted for
theft the year before. However,Eric had cooperated completely with the investigation and
there was no evidence that linked himto the murder. We ended the last
episode two months after Mark's death atthe end of March, which happened to
be Easter Weekend. By then,although the investigation still remained active, the

(02:53):
task force had been disbanded and peoplehad started to relax. The tight fear
that had gripped mark colleagues in thecountries elected officials that something else bad was
going to happen had abated, andI think people really started feeling secure that
Mark's murder was just a tragic butisolated event. And so for Easter Weekend,

(03:15):
the first sort of major holiday sinceit happened, it was agreed that
the security details that had been givento certain officials would be suspended completely to
allow officers time to enjoy the holiday. Weekend. That included the detail on
the home of Kaufman County District AttorneyMike McClelland, who lived with his wife,
Cynthia McClelland in their home in Forney, Texas, located about fifteen miles

(03:38):
northwest of Kaufman, so they werea little bit out of town. Yeah,
And if I remember correctly, Mikewas Mark's boss. Mike was the
day and he was also very closefriends with Mark before he passed away.
Yeah, that's exactly right. Mike, who was sixty three at the time,
and his wife, Cynthia, whowas sixty five, had met later

(04:00):
in life, marrying in nineteen ninetyfive when they were both in their late
forties. Cynthia grew up in Dallasand earned a bachelor's in psychology from Austin
College and a master's degree in psychologyfrom Texas Women's University. Like Mike,
she worked as a clinical psychologist formuch of her life before deciding to change

(04:20):
careers at the age of fifty two. She enrolled in nursing school at Delmar
College for Nursing and eventually became aregistered nurse. She began working as an
r n at Terrell State Hospital,a psychiatric treatment center in Terrell, Texas,
and over time she became nurse supervisor. So her and Mike both had

(04:42):
very successful careers, and they bothhad parallels in their careers. They both
started off as clinical psychologist, movedon to different careers, but then still
used that psychology background in their newcareers. I thought that was an interesting
parallel between them. Oh, well, that's really interesting. Mike and Cynthia
also had adult children from previous marriages. Mike had a daughter named Krista and

(05:05):
sons Jr. And Josh and Cynthiahad a son, Nathan and a daughter,
Christina, and I believe at thispoint they also had at least one
or two grandchildren as well, sothey had a decent sized family. Big
family. Now, I know it'sa trope, but friends and family described
Mike and Cynthia as a true caseof opposites attract. While Mike was very

(05:27):
serious, stern, remember he wasa military guy. Sure, Cynthia was
described as very warm, gentle,and nurturing. In her free time,
she loved to cook and bake andquilt, and she often gifted people her
baked goods or handcrafted quilts. Oneof her favorite things to do was to
entertain and host parties in her home, and Easter was going to be no

(05:51):
exception. This year. Cynthia wasplanning a scavenger hunt where the prizes were
Easter baskets that she had filled withpersonalized presence for each person. Oh wow,
yeah, it sounds nice, ofcourse, and after that she was
going to serve a huge Easter feast, with everything, of course being made

(06:11):
from scratch. Wow. That soundslike a lot of stress and planning.
It does, but some people loveit, and Cynthia was very much one
of those people who loved carrying forothers. Yeah, and it sounds like
she also likes creating things and craftingand thinking. Absolutely so. A bunch
of friends and family were invited,including their close friends Leah and Skeet Phillips.

(06:33):
Saturday, March thirtieth was the daybefore Easter, and so it was
the big day to start prepping allthe food and decorations for the party.
We all know how this goes.Right before a big holiday like Thanksgiving is
about to come up, you gottathe whole day before is spent prepping everything
for the holiday festivities. Yeah,for sure, you got to get the

(06:54):
house clean, you gotta get allthe decorations everything lined up. So the
plan was for Leah to bring oversome fresh vegetables and fruit for Cynthia to
use for the meal. But whenLeah called late that morning, Cynthia didn't
answer. Leah wasn't worried initially,but neither Cynthia nor Mike responded to any
of her phone calls or text messagesthroughout the morning and into the afternoon.

(07:17):
It worried her enough that she decidedto go to their house in person.
Yeah, especially with what everybody knowsis already going on. You kind of
already have that in the back ofyour head, I'm sure. When she
arrived, she noticed that Cynthia's carwas parked outside, but found it odd
that the newspaper was still sitting onthe front porch. She knew that Cynthia

(07:41):
had a very particular routine that includedreading the newspaper every morning, and it
was already well into the afternoon atthis point. Yea. And when she
knocked on the door, no oneanswered. Lea didn't know what to do,
so she called her son, cJ, who happened to be a
police office officer in Dallas. Shetold him the whole story, and CJ

(08:03):
agreed that it was concerning. Theydecided to all meet up back at the
McClellan's house, along with Skeet,Leah's husband and CJ's stepfather, so they
could have a look around and decidewhat to do from there. Okay,
well, they sound very responsible withtheir actions. This seems good of concerned
friends to be doing what they're doing. Yeah. Absolutely, And you can

(08:24):
understand why they're concerned at this point. And it's not just her. She's
talking to family and friends and nobodyhas heard from them all day exactly,
so a growing sense of concern.Then yes, when they all arrived,
they once again knocked at the doorand no one answered, but this time
one of them tried the knob andthey discovered that the door was unlocked.

(08:48):
They stepped inside, calling out toCynthia and Mike. When Leah looked down
and saw two spent shell casings onthe ground in the entryway, well,
that is not a good sign,Ackley, and Leah said. She just
collapsed on the floor in tears becauseshe instantly realized that Mike and Cynthia were
dead. Wow. CJ stepped furtherinto the living room, where he confirmed

(09:13):
Leah's worst fears. He saw Cynthia'sbody lying face up in a pool of
blood. CJ led his mother outsideto console her, while Skeet ventured further
into the house, discovering Mike's bodyin a hallway that led to a back
bedroom. There were shell casings strewneverywhere, and it was clear both victims

(09:35):
had been shot several times. CJreached out to the Kaufman County Sheriff's office
to report their murders. Obviously,the murders of Mike and Cynthia McClelland were
a huge shock, incredibly sad theyas we said, but they left behind
five children, grandchildren, and somany friends and colleagues. But the murders

(09:58):
were also terrifying. Just when peoplewere starting to feel safe again, there's
a double murder, Yeah, thisone in a home invasion where an innocent
family member had also been killed,and on the day that they removed the
patrols. That is quite the coincidence, Yeah, exactly, and also extra

(10:18):
terrifying. Yeah, I mean,it seemed like confirmation of a lot of
people's worst fears that there is somesort of serial killer or assassination campaign targeting
members of the criminal justice system,specifically people at the Kaufman County DA's office.
Now, I mentioned last episode thatMark Hassie had been only the twelfth

(10:39):
prosecutor murdered in the line of dutyin modern US history, making it an
uncommon crime. Two murders of prosecutorsat a single DA's office like this was
absolutely unprecedented. Nothing like this hadever happened before, which I'm sure just
adds to this sense of terror andpending doom for everyone else who works for

(11:01):
the city. Of the horse.So all of the old security measures were
reinstated in full force. The armsescorts, the police details, some judges
just left town completely. Obviously thiswas scary for a lot of people in
this community. Yeah, this iscrazy now as far as the investigation goes,

(11:22):
the huge multi agency task force createdfor Mark Hassie's murder was renewed once
again and extended to cover the McLellan'smurders as well. So once again it's
all hands on deck. At theMcClelland's home. Twenty shell casinges were collected.
All were two twenty three caliber,the type used in assault rifles like

(11:43):
AAR fifteens. Oh wow, wasthe first killing done with an assault rifle
as well? It was not.It was with two revolvers, so we
know that this was a completely differenttype of murder weapon than us in the
first one. Interesting, both Cynthiaand Mike were still wearing their nightclothes when
their bodies were found, leaving investigatorsto conclude that they had been attacked early

(12:05):
on Saturday morning. Records from theirsecurity system soon confirmed this. The sensor
on the front door recorded it hadbeen opened at six forty am, and
then again at six forty two.That meant that the killer or killers gained
entry to the home, fired atleast twenty rounds, killed two people,

(12:28):
and then left in less than twominutes time. This almost seems like a
professional hit. Yeah, it does. And like you said, it happened
so fast and it was strategic thatit seemed like they knew what they were
doing, they knew who they werethere to kill. They didn't take anything.
No, there was no evidence anythingwas missing from that. Just an
assassination, straight up, get outtwo minutes. That is so fast.

(12:50):
Yeah. Now, did the securitysystem have any cameras or no. It's
interesting that you asked that question becauseyes, actually had recently installed cameras at
the house. Unfortunately they were notyet hooked up. Really yes, and
at the time the alarm system wasn'tactually set, so the alarm didn't go

(13:13):
off or anything either. So wejust have the sensor data from opening and
closing the doors and that's it.That's exactly right. On top of that,
there was no sign of forced entryto the home. That meant either
that a door or window had beenunlocked and that's how the person got in,
which would have been very unusual.For the McClellans, especially under the

(13:35):
circumstances exactly, or it meant thatthe McClellans felt safe enough to open the
door to their attacker, as ifthis was someone they recognized. Crime scene
investigators tried recreating the scene based offthis information. It was likely the couple
had still been sleeping at this earlyhour on a Saturday morning, and they

(13:58):
had probably been roused away by aknock at the door. Due to Cynthia's
location nearer to the door, investigatorsbelieved it was she who answered the door
to the killer. That's what Iwould have guessed too. Once inside the
home, the killer or killers musthave immediately began shooting. Given the location
of the spent shell casings on thefloor of the entryway, Cynthia had probably

(14:20):
tried to flee but had quickly beengunned down in the living room. Mike,
meanwhile, had most likely been standingin the back of the living room
when the shooting began because there weredrops of blood there, and he probably
tried to run down the hallway tothe spare bedroom before also being gunned down.
Yeah, that seems to track now. Autopsy showed that Cynthia had been

(14:43):
shot somewhere between five and eight timestotal, while Mike had been shot around
fifteen times. In fact, therewere multiple shell casings located inches away from
his body, showing that the killerstood over Mike shooting him, repeating after
he'd already gone down. Kind oflike rageful overkill exactly. So this disparity

(15:07):
seemed to suggest overkill and that Mikewas the primary target of the attack.
Everything about these murders had clearly beencarefully orchestrated. As you already said.
They were in and out quickly,and no one in the neighborhood reported hearing
or seeing anything unusual that morning.That's interesting. I wonder if they were
using a suppressor or something to makethe noise lower, because you would think

(15:31):
that many shots someone would hear something. Yeah, maybe, I mean they
didn't know at this point. Itis unusual for twenty shots from some sort
of assault rifle, most likely ina or fifteen. You'd think somebody would
have heard that. Yeah. Imean, we've lived in neighborhoods before,
and you can hear gunshots from faraway in your house. Yeah. But

(15:52):
investigators were able to collect surveillance footagefrom various houses and businesses in the immediate
area. On several cameras, theyidentified a vehicle driving towards the direction of
the McClelland home just moments before sixforty am, and then away again just
moments after six forty two. Interesting, what did this vehicle look like?

(16:12):
The vehicle was a white Crown Victoria, so a different car than what eyewitnesses
described as the getaway car in Mark'smurder, although they could technically be considered
similar because the other car was describedas a light colored sedan, But that
one the eyewitnesses basically settled on itbeing maybe a Ford Taurust. It was

(16:37):
not a Crown Vic, so adifferent make and model, Yes, exactly.
Law enforcement canvassed the neighborhood and noone in the area owned a Crown
Vic or knew anyone who owned one, so that car was out of place.
Yeah, it's coming from outside theneighborhood. Yes, Now, white
Crown Victoria police interceptors used to bethe default vehicle driven by police officers.

(17:03):
Oh yeah, for a long time. So was it possible that the killer
was a police officer or were theyposing as a member of law enforcement?
That could explain why Cynthia had answeredthe door that morning. She might have
thought there was an emergency and lawenforcement were trying to contact her husband,

(17:26):
the district attorney. Yeah, andalso they had had these patrols and stuff
like, yeah, you know,around the house all the time. So
that would be the perfect disguise fora hitman at sure would. Now,
it probably won't surprise you to learnthat law enforcement reached out to Eric Williams
the very night of the murders.After all, Mike himself had been vocal

(17:48):
about Eric Williams being Mark's killer.In addition, the DA's office and the
various law enforcement agents had dug throughMike and Mark's mutual caseloads to quickly discover
that the case against Eric had beenthe only one the two had worked together.
He was the only common denominator betweenthem in three years. That makes

(18:10):
sense. So the knight of themurders, a sheriff's deputy called Eric on
his cell phone to inform him ofthe sad news of the murders. He
asked that Eric meet with him andanswer some questions. Eric responded that he
and his wife, Kim were currentlyin Quinlan, a town about forty miles
northeast of Kaufman, but he offereda drive back into town right away to

(18:33):
meet with a deputy, and hedid exactly that. How convenient. Yeah,
they were north of town. Thedeputy asked Eric to explain his whereabouts
for the day, and Eric saidthat he had been with his wife,
Kim, at her parents house allday long. Then at about eight thirty
or so that night, he andKim had decided on a whim to take

(18:53):
a drive and that's why they wereup in Quinlan when the deputy had called,
both and Kim agreed to hand overtheir cell phones to be searched for
any evidence connecting them to the McClelland'smurders. When asked if he'd recently fired
a weapon, Eric said no,that he hadn't shot a gun since before
his arrest for theft, so thathad been months and months before this.

(19:15):
At this point, they asked ifhe would take another gunshot residue test.
If you remember they had asked himto take one immediately after Mark's murder as
well, and it had come upnegative. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
he was the prime suspect at thatpoint, yes, yea. So the
deputy took the swabs and that wasthat the swabs were sent in for testing,

(19:37):
but it would be a few daysbefore they would get the results back.
Easter Sunday, a day that shouldhave been filled with celebration for the
McClelland family, was instead spent inmourning. That evening, a message was
sent to the Kaufman County Crime Stopperswebsite. It read, quote a fence

(19:59):
type homicide victim information Mark hassee Dowe have your full attention now only a
response from Judge bruce Wood will beanswered. You have forty eight hours what
yes? Okay, So now itsounds like it's going back into the direction
of organized crime exactly. So wehave this message. They're using the word

(20:22):
we, So it appears to befrom a group, yeah, or at
least somebody pretending they are part ofa group, and they are claiming responsibility
from Mark's death and demanding a responsefrom bruce Wood, who was at the
time the county judge of Kaufman County. Now, to be fair, this
could be a really smart idea todo something like this if there was a

(20:45):
singular killer right to like, becauseyou said that the Aryan brotherhood and organized
crime thing was mostly in the media, Yes, it's in the media,
which means it's on everybody's mind,because that's what everybody's being exposed to,
is all of this reporting about itbeing the ABT, right, And if
you're a singular killer of these individuals, then you would know about all this

(21:08):
exactly. So this feeds back intothat idea. Okay, Now, the
whole purpose of the crime stoppers websitesis for the public to be able to
send in anonymous tips to law enforcementwithout fear of reprisal. Therefore, when
a message is submitted to the site, no identifying information such as the user's

(21:29):
IP address, for example, isrecorded. Instead, the message is automatically
assigned a unique tracking number, andit's my understanding that that number can then
be used by the tipster to logback in and track replies back and forth
between them and law enforcement. Ohwow. The next morning, investigators sent

(21:51):
a response very short and sweet.You have our attention. How can the
judge contact you? That night,they received a reply quote message through this
secure format. Only your act offaith will result in no other attacks.
This week, As proof, MarkHassey was killed with thirty eight caliber plus

(22:11):
P ammunition one forty seven grain hydroshockammunition fired from a three inch three fifty
seven five shot revolver. Judge Woodmust offer a resignation of one of the
four main judges in Kaufman District orCounty court list stress or family concerns,
or whatever else sounds deniable. Themedia will understand, My superiors will see

(22:37):
this as a first step to endingour actions. Do not report any details
of this arrangement. You have untilFriday at four o'clock pm. We are
not unreasonable, but we will notbe stopped. Wow. Yes, that
is wild, terrifying. And justto be clear, the description of the

(22:57):
ammunition used in Mark Cassie's murder wasexactly right. And of course this proved
that the tips seem to be comingfrom somebody who was responsible for his murder.
Who then and again referring back tomy superiors, like, this is
an organization, exactly, and thisorganization is demanding the resignation of a judge

(23:21):
on threat of further bloodshed. Yeah, as the first step. So like
there might be other judges, Likethey might take down the whole justice system
of Kaufman County. That's what they'rekind of suggesting, aren't they. Wow.
Investigators responded the following morning, hopingto encourage communication and draw out further
details. Quote, we have receiveda number of tips and yours is the

(23:44):
most credible. We are working onyour demands. A lot has been put
out to the media in order forus to verify that you are a part
of this group. Can you giveus additional details that are specific to this
case and not known by the press. Now, to jump a little forward
in this story, law enforcement neverreceived a reply and the date and time

(24:07):
mentioned in the message, which wasFriday, April fifth, at four pm,
That time came and went and nothinghappened. And I'm guessing they did
not fire that judge. They didn't, so they basically didn't respond or do
anything. And this also didn't goout to the media. So this is
something just between the tipster, whoeverthis person was or this group is,

(24:30):
and law enforcement. Yeah, sothe demands weren't met and time expired.
Yes. Now, while all ofthat was happening and law enforcement was tackling
this new complication, the news thatEric Williams had been questioned after the murders
of Mark Hassey and the McClellans finallyreached the media. Up to this point,

(24:52):
the speculation that he was involved hadbeen contained mostly to law enforcement as
well as family, friends, andcolleagues to the case, so Eric's name
had never really been on the radarpublicly. So when the press got wind
of the story, this judge whohad been convicted for theft by the people
who had been murdered, I mean, everyone wanted to talk to him.

(25:17):
It started out with local news stations, who Eric Williams obliged with a couple
of quick telephone interviews. Then theystarted showing up to his house and he
agreed to a few short interviews inperson as well. One crew from Channel
two News in Houston showed up tohis home only to find him outside driving
around the neighborhood on his segue.Oh, doing his patrol thing. Yeah.

(25:44):
Eric agreed to an on camera interview, telling the reporter quote, my
heartfelt condolences go out to the McClellanfamily and the Hassey family because they were
in public office doing the right thingand for some reason that we're not aware
of, paid the ultimate price forthat. What's strange is that Eric gave
this interview while still standing on hissegue, and he also allowed the crew

(26:08):
to shoot b roll of him zippingup and down the street on it,
oh, with this goofy look onhis face. And then this entire segment
was put on the news. Andit's just wild because this man was being
looked at in connection to three murdersin the biggest murder investigation going on in

(26:30):
the nation, and he is justthis, this goofy guy rolling around town
in a segue. And his statementisn't like extremely heartfelt either, you know,
it's not like full of sadness andwoe for what happened. It's just
like very a matter of fact,like planned out statement. And then he's
gonna zip up and down on asegue and show that I'm performing patrol in

(26:53):
the neighborhood. It's just weird.The thing is really weird. Yeah,
pretty much. Now. He alsospoke to the Dallas Morning News, but
he basically told all of these publicationsthe same thing. He was very sad
for the families, but he didnot have anything to do with the murders.
By the time, the big nationalpapers like the New York Times and

(27:14):
the LA Times started contacting him forinterviews, though, he started refusing to
talk entirely. So there was justa couple of days in there where he
let his guard down and talked publicly, and after that he was quite again.
I wonder if he'd been in contactwith a lawyer at that point or
something, or if he just decidedthe positive his lawyers told him to stop

(27:36):
talking to the media, Yes,to stop. Yeah, But by that
time, the results of the secondgunshot residue test had come back, and
this time the swamp's taken of EricWilliam's hands tested positive for gunshot residue.
You don't say now that meant thatEric had most likely either discharged a weapon

(27:59):
or handled a recently discharged weapon withinhours of when the swabs had been taken.
It was certainly interesting, but itwasn't necessarily proof he'd been involved in
the murders, which had it occurredsomewhere around fourteen hours before the swabs were
taken. Yeah, just circumstantial.Yeah, pretty much. Now if we
I think we've talked about this onthe show before. But just as a

(28:22):
little refresher, gunshot residue dissipates quickly. It can be transferred off the hands,
It can be transferred onto the hands. You can shake hands with someone
in transfer, yes, exactly,And it can be removed entirely with just
basically one decent hands washing, Soit seemed more likely that he'd been exposed
to gunshot residue within a few hoursof when the swabs had been taken,

(28:48):
and not that this was a clearcut evidence that he had shot the McClellan's
fourteen hours before. Does that makesense, Yeah, he would have have
to have gone that entire fourteen hourswithout washing, without touch anything, basically,
yes, which is a little sillyto think about. But it did
potentially catch him in a lie becausehe had claimed he hadn't shot a gun

(29:08):
in months. That's what I wasgoing to say. He was just like,
oh, no, I haven't beenaround guns at all. Then there
was another breakthrough. Analysts had beencombing through the records associated with Eric's account
with the legal research software called LexisNexus. It's basically a huge database that
lawyers used to access records and legaldata to do research for cases. It's

(29:33):
a really really powerful tool for lawyers. Sure, they discovered that Eric had
searched the names of Mark Hasseie aswell as Mike McClelland several times. First
in twenty twelve, around when histrial for theft was first happening and most
recently just before Mark's murder. Sowhy is he up to that? I

(29:55):
mean that seems suspicious. Yeah,it is suspicious. Why would he be
doing research on the prosecutors who werewho were trying him for theft? Yeah.
Now the timing, though, isreally interesting because he was still using
lexus Nexus even though his law licensehad been revoked. By that time,

(30:17):
he was still in the system.Yeah, exactly. He In theory,
he should no longer have had accessto his lexus Nexus lawyer account essentially,
but he was still using it.Apparently there was some sort of oversight where
his account was never disabled. That'sa huge oversight. Yeah. Now,
the searches had pulled up all sortsof results on Mike and Mark, including

(30:41):
their home addresses. In total,Eric had spent hours perusing these search results,
and on January twenty third, theweek before Mark Hassie's murder, Eric
searched lexis Nexus for a license platenumber that turned out to belong to a
vehicle owned by one of Mark hasthese neighbors. That's weird. Yeah,

(31:03):
it suggested that Eric had been scopingout Mark's neighborhood had seen this vehicle parked
somewhere near Mark's house and was tryingto identify the owner. Oh I see,
yeah, and even more scary.Authorities combing through all of these Lexus
Nexus records later discovered other searches forthe names of Toby Shook and Bill Wurski,

(31:26):
the two special prosecutors from Dallas whohad been called into town to handle
the case. Whoa, so theymight be next. I mean, if
this is what's happening, If that'swhat's happening, yeah, whoa. So.
With the positive gunshot residue test aswell as the Alexus Nexus search,
history authorities finally had what they neededto move forward in their investigation of Eric

(31:49):
Williams, and they were able tosecure a search warrant of his home.
Yeah that's what I was going tosay. You gotta search that guy's house
now, all right now. Insidethey found the packaging of a three fifty
seven caliber handgun, the same thatwas used in Mark's murder, which is
the packaging, the packaging, yes, okay, as well as the lower
components of a couple of AR fifteens, the same weapon that was thought to

(32:14):
be used in the McClelland murders.Okay, so lower components like magazines or
like handles or stocks like. Yeah, so that's the thing. Air fifteens
break down into two components. Theupper component is the part with the barrel.
What they found at his house werejust the lower components, the part
that houses the trigger and magazine.I got you. Yeah, So even

(32:36):
if they were used in the murder, there was no way to confirm that
with ballistics because the lower component doesn'tactually ever make contact with the bullets,
and that's how you track it ballistically. Yeah. Ballistics is looking at the
scars that the bullets make based onthe shape of the interior of the barrel
of the gun. Yeah. Yeah. They also found a large amount of

(32:57):
military gear at his house, similarto what Mark Shooter was seen wearing in
the first killing. Yeah, becausethere was somebody who was in military gear.
Yes, all black military gear.Yes. Tucked away in a filing
cabinet in the garage, though,they found an owner's manual and a title
for a white two thousand Ford CrownVictoria. Ooh interesting. Yes, obviously

(33:23):
very exciting because they suspected that awhite Crown VIC was involved in the McLellan's
murder. But the most damning evidencewas something they probably did not expect,
A very innocuous looking note written onan old tax receipt. It was two
sets of alpha numeric code W sixninety five DASH one ninety six and W

(33:45):
six ninety five DASH one eight nine. Law enforcement passed the note around trying
to figure out what it was,and it didn't take long before someone recognized
that the code was in the sameformat as the tracking numbers assigned to tips
on the Kaufman County Crime Stoppers website. That right there, my friend is

(34:06):
a smoking You are the messenger.Yeah, okay, So of course when
they checked the first number in thesystem, low and behold, they got
a match to the messages that hadtaken responsibility from Marcassie's murder and threatened even
more. What an idiot, like, why do you even need to write
that down? Well, because againI as far as I understand, the

(34:30):
system worked, where you used thatnumber to then log back in and track,
you have to have the tracking number. Yes, the way that you
would figure out that you would getaccess to the response from law enforcements.
You've had that No. One number. That's the only identifying information associated with
the message. I was confused.I thought you were saying that the law
enforcement had to use the number toaccess the Well, yes, I mean

(34:52):
that they both do, and theyboth the two way street exactly. Yes,
okay, so well all right,maybe maybe just destroyed that then.
Oh yeah, yeah, you'd thinkthat that would be a smart move.
But remember there were two numbers onthat piece of paper. The second number
was connected with an even earlier tipthat had been submitted to the website about

(35:14):
four weeks after Mark Hassie's death andthree or four weeks before the McClellan's murders.
Oh so he had tried to dothis before. Yes, well,
this is what the message read forthat tip. Quote. Overheard this guy
talking about the hit on that DAguy said his buddy and another guy did
it and got a cool vacation downSouth Mexico way, free girls, drugs

(35:37):
and booze. They're supposed to beback next week in Athens, Texas.
Athens, Texas. Ye didn't hearnothing else. Some guy named Bull six
foot two forty pounds, thirty yearsold, drove a blue Chevy pickup.
So that was that was the tip. Well, I can see why there
were no takers. Maybe that's whyhis second tip was so detail failed and

(36:00):
like just like, hey, forreal, it's me this time. Well,
I mean, these were two completelydifferent types of tips. This initial
one clearly was just somebody trying tothrow the investigation off. For whatever reason,
law enforcement hadn't ever replied to thismessage, and as far as I
know, they hadn't even looked intoit further. So, for whatever you

(36:22):
know, they saw this and theywere like, there's nothing to go on
here. This is really vague,isn't isn't what we're looking for. We
don't believe it, and they movedon. I would love to speak to
someone who has to go through thesetips. Yeah, sometime I agree at
some point, just like how dothey figure it out? Yeah? So
this little scrap of paper enabled investigatorsto finally arrest Eric Williams on the charge

(36:44):
of making a terroristic threat. Itwasn't justice for three murders, but at
least it put him safely behind bars. He couldn't hurt anyone while the murder
investigation continued. That's interesting, Yeah, because he didn't make a threat to
the entire justice system of Cochrane County. Absolutely, that in itself is an

(37:05):
offense. Interesting news of the searchof Eric William's home and his arrest for
making a terroristic threat spread fast.The very next day, a man named
Roger contacted prosecutors. Roger and Erichad served in the same regiment together in
the Texas State Guard, and infact, Eric had been Roger's superior.

(37:29):
Even after the theft trial and Eric'sdismissal from the Guard, the two had
remained friends and it was clear thatRoger still really respected Eric. Roger told
the prosecutors that back in December twentytwelve, so this would have been about
a month before Mark's murder, Erichad told him that his in laws needed
to rent a storage unit for someof their old belongings. Eric said that

(37:53):
Kim's parents were elderly and not ingood health, so he was trying to
make the arrangements for them. However, he worried that if he put the
unit in his own name, thenthe authorities would find out, and then
they'd come and try to search itor otherwise harass him about the the storage
unit. Of course, this ison account of the ongoing witch hunt against

(38:15):
him. He asked if Roger wouldput the unit in his name that way,
his poor elderly in laws wouldn't behounded. Roger said that he agreed
readily, and soon after Eric askedhim to meet at a facility called Gibson
Self Storage in Seagoville, located aboutthirty minutes west of Kaufman. Eric gave

(38:37):
Roger about a thousand dollars in cashto pay for the unit up front for
a whole year, and Roger puthis name down on unit number eighteen,
a ten by twenty foot storage unit. That's a big storage unit. It
is a big unit. What doyou think could be in there? A
vehicle? Hmmm. Roger said thatthey'd handled the transactions smoothly and he hadn't

(39:02):
heard anything about it since, buthe decided to come forward with the information
once hearing about the searches and thearrest. To be clear, though,
even though Roger came forward with thisinformation, it didn't appear as though he
personally thought Eric was actually the killer, and in fact, according to court
records, Roger told them about theunit thinking it would help to ultimately clear

(39:25):
Eric somehow that it doesn't sound likeit's going to m well, let's see,
so obviously, a search warrant forthe storage unit was immediately requested,
and on Saturday, April thirteenth,law enforcement gathered at Gibson Self Storage to
carry out the search. A hugeteam assembled at the unit to open it

(39:46):
up, including the prosecutors, thepolice chief, the sheriff, FBI agents,
Texas rangers. It was everybody allhoping that the storage unit was going
to be the key to solving threemurders. Sure yeah. And when they
opened the door to the unit,the first thing everyone saw was a white

(40:07):
two thousand and four Ford Crown Victoria. Oh Victoria, Mmm, you do
produce. So the gathered crowd startedcheering, hugging, and high fiving each
other. Some even broke down intotears. It was very emotional because they
knew they had him at this point. Sure yeah, and like, no

(40:28):
more terror will happen to anyone else. Yeah, Bill Wurski told forty eight
Hours quote, it was like Christmasmorning and the Dallas Cowboys win in the
Super Bowl all rolled into one now. Besides the Crown vic, the rest
of the unit was filled to thebrim with military and police gear as well
as weapons. Ah. So thisis his hidie hole for all of his

(40:52):
ill deeds. Basically, There werebulletproof vests, police uniforms, including shirts
with police labeled on them, patchesfrom various law enforcement agencies, including the
Sheriff's department. There were boxes andtrunks and bags filled with thousands of rounds
of ammunition, along with huge collectionsof knives and machetes. There was even

(41:15):
a crossbow. What Over thirty firearmswere collected from the unit, including more
lower components from AAR fifteens. Butthere were even more bizarre items found inside,
including several pickle jars filled with astrange yellow substance that lab tests later

(41:35):
proved to be homemade napalm. WHOA. There was also what law enforcement referred
to as some sort of explosive device. It was a lighter and a dog
toy, one of those tennis ballson a rope dub taped to a container
of lighter fluid. I don't knowhow that is supposed to work, but

(41:58):
it was considered explosive device. Finally, in the bottom of a duffel bag,
investigators found one single unfired round oftwo twenty three caliber ammunition, the
same type used in the McClelland murders. Even though the bullet was unfired,
there were still markings found on it, and ballistics experts found that the marks

(42:22):
matched the ones on the shell casingsrecovered at the McClellan's home. That meant
that the bullet found in the storageunit had been cycled through the same AR
fifteen that had been used in themurders. So these are marks from this
particular bullet going through the same gunthat the ones that were actually fired,

(42:44):
Yes, went through. Okay,most likely the bullet had been chambered and
ready to go, but then ithad been removed, probably in order to
clean the weapon. Oh wow,so it still had the markings from the
barrel and all of that. Yeah, yeah, but it hadn't actually been
fired. That's crazy. So thiswas the next best thing to finding the

(43:04):
actual murder weapon in the McClellan murders. Yeah. Besides the treasure trove of
evidence within the storage unit, investigatorsfound that unit number eighteen at Gibson's Self
Storage had been accessed multiple times sinceit had been rented out, including both
right before and right after each ofthe murders. How did they know that?

(43:27):
It was records that they found withinthe offices of the storage facility where
any time any of their units wereaccessed, it would have a timestamp.
Oh, so it's like an electricmechanism they can do it, okay,
because like when I'm thinking of storageunits, I'm thinking of like you bring
your own lock or like a locksprovided to you, and it's like a
key. Okay, So that's likea digital time stamp. Okay exactly,

(43:51):
And maybe that was something that theyonly have on these big units or something
as opposed to like a little storagelocker. You probably wouldn't have any way
to test to see when people accessedit, but on this big unit they
did. Interesting, so it lookedlike you said, like the storage unit
was basically murder headquarters where Eric Williamskept everything he needed for the murders,

(44:15):
including the vehicles that he used inthem. Yeah, and all that police
gear and stuff kind of goes backto how he might have gotten entrance into
the house, yes, posing asa law enforcement officer exactly, and of
course matches what the shooter was describedas wearing when Mark Hassie died. Right

(44:36):
now, the storage facility did nothave cameras of its own, and that's
probably one of the reasons why EricWilliams chose to use it honestly. But
they found that there was a ChickenExpress located right next to the facility's back
gate. That Chicken Express had acamera pointed at its drive through, except
it was a little crooked so thatthe corner of the camera was actually pointed

(45:00):
right at the gate for the storagefacility. Oh wow. They found that
the morning of Mark's murder, thecamera showed a Ford sport Track pull up
to the gate, paused to enterthe code, and then drive into the
facility. Moments later, the recordsat the office tracked that Unit eighteen was

(45:20):
accessed, and then a light coloredsedan drove away. Later the sedan came
back, records showed that unit numbereighteen was opened once again, and then
minutes later the Ford sport Track isseen on camera driving away again. Wow,
I feel like we have everything weneed right now. Yes, And
the same thing happened the morning ofthe McClellan's murders, except a Crown Vic

(45:45):
was seen on the footage instead ofthe other sedan. Now guests who owned
a Ford sport Track that fit thedescription seen in the footage? E R
I see Eric did it? Yes? Eric Williams did in fact own a
forward sport track. Now that theyhad the Crown Vic in their possession,

(46:05):
authorities were able to follow with thatlead as well. They located the previous
owner of the car, who saidthat he had sold it on Craigslist to
a man who called himself Richard Greenfor thirty two hundred dollars in cash.
That was the name that was onthe title that they found in Eric's garage.
Okay, yeah, right. Theseller was given a photo lineup and

(46:29):
he picked out Eric Williams as beingRichard Green. Of course, gotcha.
And by the way, the vehiclewas in fact a retired police car.
So he went on Craigslist and soughtthis vehicle out for that specific reason.
That's what it appears like. Yes, wow, this guy is evil.

(46:49):
Of course, that's just the vehicleassociated with the McClelland where was the light
colored sedan? Evidence for that cameonce again from Eric's Lexis Nexis search results.
Eric had searched for a vehicle licenseplate for a white two thousand and
one Mercury Sable. When investigators checkedthe vehicle's information, they found that on

(47:13):
January twenty eighth, just three daysbefore Mark's murder, it had been sold
on Craigslist for fifteen hundred dollars incash. Is craiglist still around? We
still craigslisting things? Yeah? Ohman, how much nefarious stuff happens to
get spots on Craigslist? Yeah,you never know. Well, then at

(47:35):
mid February, the vehicle had beenreported as broken down and abandoned just outside
guess what gives him self? Storage? WHOA? It had been towed away
and was located in an auto storageyard in Kaufman. It was seized for
evidence. So this vehicle just brokedown, Yes, couldn't get it back

(47:57):
into the storage locker, and hejust abandoned it, and then it got
towed and it's at a toe loot. Yes, I'm sorry, I'll say
it again. He's an idiot.Oh, I mean yeah, just go
get the car back and then destroyit or sell it. Like, why
why would you leave that loophole outthere? Well, I mean here's an
additional loophole because once the car wasseized for evidence, a pair of goggles,

(48:23):
a glove, and a box containingear plugs were all found inside the
vehicle, and these items were allsent in for DNA testing, and much
later results would confirm that Eric's DNAwas found on all of them. I
bet he thought he was so slick. Probably. Okay, so we're headed

(48:45):
down this road where we think thatEric is the killer. All signs point
to Eric. I mean a lotof signs are pointing to Eric. But
I have this one lingering detail fromthe first episode of the part one of
the series where he had the slingfrom an injury, So he clearly couldn't
have been the shooter because he hadan injured arm. So, like,

(49:07):
do we have any resolution to thator there any details surrounding it? Well,
I mean this comes out a littlebit later in the story, but
we can talk about it here.Basically, there was nothing to show that
Eric Williams had actually had that injury, that specific injury he had talked about,
or the resulting surgery from that injury. So if I remember last time,

(49:30):
no like medical documents or like notat all. Yeah. No,
So if I remember from last time, he had promised, Oh, I'm
gonna give you I'm gonna go aheadand send y'all those medical records on this
surgery, so y'all can just takethat. You know, I'm good,
I didn't kill anybody, etc.Never fallowed through, never fallowed through,
and kind of let his attorneys bethe middleman between him and them, so

(49:55):
that his attorneys were able to kindof like put up a wall. Yeah
exactly. So, Yeah, itcame out later that there was absolutely no
medical evidence to support the fact thathe had any sort of injury or surgery,
and that most likely he had justwarren a sling. Okay, yeah,
well that clears things up now.Everything inside the storage unit seemed to

(50:20):
belong to Eric Williams except for oneitem, an empty two leader bottle of
coke. Eric Williams had type onediabetes and he didn't drink coke, but
his wife, Kim certainly did.Day this is what I was wondering,
like, who is the getaway driverreally? And in their search of the
home, they'd found tons of twoleaders of coke, so it kind of

(50:44):
made the connection very quickly to themthat maybe Kim was more involved than they
had ever thought. So for thefirst time, Kim, who had been
a very quiet figure in this storyso far, became a suspect as well.
A few days after Eric's arrest,law enforcement reached out to her and
she agreed to speak with them.Now at first, she totally denied that

(51:07):
her husband or herself had been involvedin any of the murders, but investigators
pressed the issue, bringing up howCynthia was completely innocent and didn't deserve to
die the way she had, andeventually Kim broke. Over many hours and
many interviews, Kim ended up describingin painful detail everything that she knew.

(51:30):
Kim and Eric had first met onlineand had been married for fifteen years.
Kim had been a very lively womanwith a job in a medical field,
but her health complications had soon lefther in a great amount of pain and
unable to work. To manage herpain, She'd been prescribed to narcotics,

(51:51):
and over the years she ended updeveloping a very serious addiction. By the
time Eric had become Justice of thePeace, she said that she was heavily
abusing morphine, valium oxycotton, aswell as other medications. She said she
was completely dependent upon Eric as wellas utterly devoted to him. Oh gosh,

(52:12):
yeah, and then like his wholeworld comes chattering down, So that
means that she's not going to haveaccess to all the things that she needs.
Well sure, yeah, wow.Kim said unsurprisingly that everything began when
Eric was first arrested. She saidthat he called her from jail and told
her that investigators were on their wayto come search their home for the missing

(52:34):
computer monitors. He told her thatthere was a computer monitor sitting in their
living room, and he asked thatshe hurry and take it to her parents'
house before investigators came to search theirhouse, which she did. He did
that from jail. Aren't those callsmonitored? You'd think so, right,
But I don't know if it didn'tgo through, it just wasn't monitored.
Not sure, but yeah, itlooks like this was the whereabouts of that

(53:00):
third monitor that was never found thatEric claimed that he returned to the IT
department. From what he told Kim, it seemed like he had intended to
give it to a friend rather thanuse it for the video conferencing system like
he'd always claimed. Okay, sohe is a thief. I mean,
it's kind of what it gets backto from getting Yeah, it kind of

(53:23):
does seem like he was stealing equipment. So he has no right to even
have vengeance for this. I mean, he's wrong from the get go.
Yes, probably at least that's that'sthat is definitely what it seems. Nevertheless,
Eric told her that he'd been setup, that the accusations against him
were untrue and unfounded, and heraged against them. She said she believed

(53:47):
him totally, and she joined himin his hatred for the people who had
ruined their lives. She said thathe started talking about killing Mike and Mark
sometime around the trial, but hedidn't seem serious about it until around November,
when he first came to her andasked her to help him. She

(54:08):
said that although she tried to brushhim off at first, she eventually agreed
to help kill the two. Shesaid that Eric's anger seemed to be directed
predominantly towards Mark, so that's whyMark was killed first. I think that's
because even though there was that historybetween Eric and Mike with a letter Eric

(54:29):
had written to the newspaper urging peopleto vote for Mike's opponent in the DA's
race, and even though both hadsaid strong words against him at trial,
he held Mark more accountable for hisconviction since he was the lead prosecutor on
the case, okay, directly responsiblefor his conviction. Yeah, his first

(54:51):
plan was to kill Mark at hishouse, and she confirmed that they'd spent
time surveiling his neighborhood. Eventually,though, he decided to instead kill Mark
in the parking lot outside the courthouse. He named the plan Tombstone, after
the nineteen ninety three movie about thegun fight at the OK Corral, one
of our favorite movies bringing this,don't you disparage the name of Tombstone in

(55:15):
this. That's one of my favoritemovies. Yeah, right, Well,
his reasoning was that it was thebad guys versus the good guys. You
know, he was showing up dressedall in black, just like Wyatt Earp
and his crew do, and thatthe killing all went down in the open,
in public, So you can seehow much he romanticized this murder and

(55:37):
how much he considered himself to bea good guy. He's wide ear and
a lawman, yes, exactly,while the bad guys are the outlaw cowboys,
right, Kim said. The nightbefore Mark's murder, Eric dressed up
in his swat gear in his maskto show off his outfit for the big
day. She described how they'd drivenout to the storage unit beforehand, switched

(55:59):
out their car for the mercury Sable, then waited for Mark to arrive at
the parking lot. She said shehadn't been able to stomach watching the shooting,
but after they'd driven straight back tothe unit to switch the cars back
before going home, Kim said Ericreveled in Mark's death and immediately started planning

(56:20):
his next kill, and although severalpeople were on his hit list, he
settled on Mike. She said.He decided to do this one as a
home invasion, and so they surveilledMike's house and neighborhood as well. Eric
decided to kill them on Easter weekend, correctly guessing that the police details would
be canceled by then. When Kimpointed out that Cynthia would be home as

(56:45):
well, she said that Eric shruggedand said that he would have to kill
her as well, calling her quotescollateral damage. Wow, that's just brutal,
and it also sounds like he's escalatingnow, wanting to do a home
invasion, doesn't care if innocent peopledie. But that's crazy how he just

(57:06):
predicted that the patrols were going tobe ended by Easter weekend. I was
wondering if he was still on somekind of like email chain or had access
to like emails or I mean it'sit's possible that he might have heard something
through the very time he was inthat lawyer database. For a while,
I wondered, like how quickly allof his accounts got shut down. I

(57:27):
was, I was like, howwould you know that they sent out like
everybody, Hey, the patrols arebeing ended for Easter weekend. I think
for him, like you said,I mean, it might have been he
might have heard something at some point, but I think he just correctly guessed
that it was the first weekend sincethe murder, things had nothing had happened,
so people were calming down and thatsecurity would be lessened for the weekends.

(57:52):
But it really does seem like he'sescalating his activity on the second kill,
and like it sounds also from thetip that he gave police that he
had future plans and you said thathe had an extended list of other people
of targets. Oh yeah, wehaven't gotten to that. Oh it makes
me wonder if he had an ultimatelike go down in a blaze of glory,
Like what's his end all be all? Where's he going with all this?

(58:14):
Like what does he think he's goingto get reinstated as a judge somehow
or he just wants to be killedby police. Sir, Well, I
think as we continue along the story, we're going to get maybe a little
bit more information as to what wasgoing on in his head. Okay,
but at this point, I thinkit's just purely revenge. Wow, So
it's just full rage at this point. Kim said that the plan was to

(58:37):
originally use the same car, sothat Mercury Sable was supposed to be used
in both murders, but of coursewe know and proke down, Yeah,
so he had to rush to getthe Crown VIC. She confirmed that he
wanted it to look like a policecar and that he planned on posing as
a member of law enforcement to getCynthia to answer the door. I believe

(59:00):
that he specifically posed as a sheriff'sdeputy, and remember that he had those
sheriff's deputy patches in the storage unit, so that was something probably he had
added to his uniform to make himlook like the real deal. Sure.
Sure. On the morning of themurders, they again drove to the storage
unit, swapped out the vehicles,and then drove to the house. Kim

(59:21):
said that she waited outside and watchedas Eric went to the door of the
house and knocked. She said thatshe saw a light go on in the
house and then saw Eric disappear inside. When he returned, he said the
job was done, and he describedhow when he was leaving the house,
he saw that Cynthia was still alive. She was making moaning noises, so

(59:43):
he stopped to fire one last bulletinto the top of her head as she
lay dying on the ground. Jesus. This matched with forensic evidence, which
showed that there was a single shotto the top of Cynthia's head, and
of course that was something that onlythe killer would know exactly. Kim said

(01:00:06):
that they felt quote happy and satisfiedafter the deaths of Mike and Cynthia,
and grilled stakes at her parents' houseand celebration that very night. Yeah,
oh my god, who can eatafter that and celebrate? These people are
monsters. But that wasn't all.Kim went on to say that Eric began

(01:00:27):
to plan another murder right after themclellans, and there were two people at
the top of his list. Thefirst was the County Court at law judge
Early Wiley. Several years before,when he was still an attorney. Judge
Wiley had angered Eric when she hadaccused him of cooking his books, charging

(01:00:49):
for hours that he hadn't actually worked, which now we probably think he probably
did cook his books. Yeah,well, she had been nice about it,
she hadn't taken any action against him, and she'd basically just given him
a verbal warning, but that wasenough for him to apparently want her dead.
The other potential victim was Judge GlennAshworth. If you remember from last

(01:01:14):
time, Eric had been Judge Ashworth'scourt coordinator while he was still in law
school, and Ashworth had been hislongtime friend and mentor for years. According
to Janice's testimony at his theft trial, it was Judge Ashworth who'd claimed responsibility
for Eric after he'd threatened her,which had helped encourage her not to press

(01:01:36):
charges. But it was that verysame situation that caused Judge Ashworth to be
in Eric's sites. See. Ericbelieved that it was Ashworth who had brought
the story to the prosecution and ledthem to Janice in the first place,
which of course ended with Janice's damningtestimony against him in his theft trial.

(01:01:58):
Now it's not clear whether or notthere was any truth to this. If
Ashworth had really led Mike and Markto Janice. But that's apparently what Eric
believed. Yeah, at least inhis mind, he was a target,
yes, and it was a betrayalthat Kim said Eric thought deserved an even
harsher punishment than the others. Ohmy gosh, it sounds like his brutality

(01:02:20):
is also increasing. Yes. Kimsaid that Eric dreamed about kidnapping Judge Ashworth,
shooting him with a crossbow, andthen taking him back to their house.
He planned on boring a hole intothe judge's stomach and pouring napalm inside.
So again, remember how there wasa crossbow and napalm found within the

(01:02:43):
storage units. That's weird. Yeah. She said that afterward he planned on
putting the judge's body in their freezerand burying it in their yard. In
fact, she said that he evendug up her roses to see if the
bed was large and deep enough tofit a body. Kim said that during

(01:03:04):
this whole period of time, hewas drinking heavily and behaving radically. He
started to believe that their house wasbugged, and so whenever he wanted to
talk about these murders, that hewas wanting to commit he would drag her
into the pantry with a deck ofcards, and if he wanted to discuss
the murder of Early Wiley, hewould hold up a queen. And if

(01:03:27):
it was Glenn Ashworth's death he wantedto talk about, he would hold up
a king. Now, beyond Wileyand Ashworth, we know that there was
also evidence that Eric had been toyedwith the idea of killing Shook and Worski
as well the two special prosecutors Dallas. Yeah, so that's potentially four additional
murders he was looking at besides thethree he had already done. This is

(01:03:51):
a lot of detail that we're gettingfrom his wife, though, that seems
to corroborate a lot of the evidencethat has been found. Yeah. Absolutely,
I mean she gave them everything thatthey wanted. Now, finally,
Kim said that Eric had a fascinationwith Christopher Dorner. Dorner was the police

(01:04:11):
officer with the LAPD who went ona nine day shooting spree targeting law enforcement
officers and their families after claiming hadbeen wrongly fired from the force after filing
complaints of excessive force. Yeah,I remember that. Now. Before his
death, Dorner posted an eleven thousandword diatribe about how he'd been wronged by

(01:04:33):
the LAPD, and he included along list of the people he believed deserved
to die because of it. Hewounded three people and killed four before being
killed any police shootout. Dorner's killingspree had started just a few days after
Mark's death, so it had beenvery recent and huge news, so he's

(01:04:58):
kind of copycatting. Now. Acopy of Dorner's manifesto was found inside Eric's
house, daring their search, andKim said that Eric read it over and
over again and seemed to view Dorneras some sort of sympathetic hero. And
obviously, there are huge parallels betweenChristopher Dorner and Eric Williams. They were

(01:05:19):
both members of the criminal justice system, both seemed to view themselves as heroes
fighting against injustice, and both usedtheir personal revenge story as justification for the
murder of innocent people. Now,because Kim admitted to being the getaway driver
in the murderers, she too wasarrested and charged with capital murder on account

(01:05:45):
of Texas's law of parties. Now, we've talked about this many times before
on this show, most thoroughly inour series about the Texas Seven. But
the law of Parties allows a personto be held criminally responsible for another person's
crimes if they encouraged or assisted inthe carrying out of those crimes. That's

(01:06:05):
right. We also covered the foundingof that law in Geraldine Davis's case.
Yes, in East Texas, almostlike right next door to where this happens,
and we talked about it in MiguelMartinez's case. This has come up
so many times in Texas law.This is just a very important statute that
you have to be familiar with.There are a few states that have the

(01:06:28):
law of party statutes, but Texasis the only state that applies it to
death penalty cases, meaning that aperson can be sentenced to death even if
they themselves did not kill anyone.Shortly after Kim's arrest, Eric was also
officially charged with three counts of capitalmurder. Within a few weeks, Kim,

(01:06:49):
now clean and sober from her timein jail, filed for divorce.
Now although she was being charged withcapital murder, Kim continued to assist the
investigation. She told investigators that Erichad troubled deciding on which of the guns
from his collection he wanted to useon the McClellans. So he'd gone to

(01:07:11):
a remote underpass and did some targetpractice on the pillars of the highway.
So he's just standing out there inthe middle of nowhere under an overpass shootnets
and pillars. Why not go outinto a field or in the woods?
I mean that he didn't get caught. Yeah, Well, investigators located the
spot and collected some of these spentshell casings that they found there, and

(01:07:36):
ballistics confirmed that many of them wereshot with the same weapon used to kill
Cynthia and Mike McClelland. Kim alsohad some idea of where Eric might have
hidden additional evidence. She said thaton the night of the McClellans murders,
when Eric told deputies they'd gone fora drive to Quinlan, Eric could have

(01:08:00):
actually driven them to Lake Tawaukeney,which is a pretty good sized lake about
forty miles northwest of Kaufman and rightnext to Quinlan. She said Eric had
driven about halfway across a bridge thatcrosses the lake, stopped the car and
threw a black bag into the lake. So that's where all the missing ballistics

(01:08:21):
barrels from the upper part of themechanism, I'm Sarah. Probably, well,
they didn't know what it was goingto be, but they certainly hoped
this was going to be some ofthe murder. Way, Yeah, it's
gonna be something important that he wantedto get rid of involved in these murder
Wow, she's really just like tellingthem all very helpful. Yes. Kim
led them approximately to the location ofthe bridge where Eric dumped the evidence,

(01:08:45):
and divers were called in to sweepthe lake. Now, the lake is
a pretty big lake, and ittook several attempts, but eventually the black
bag was recovered. However, theyfound that what Kim had missed taken for
a bag was really the hood thatEric had worn during Mark's murder. It

(01:09:08):
was one of those Halloween masks thatblacks out your face. Is one of
those you know, hood and cowlsituations with the black fabric covering your face.
That's what it was that he hadthrown overboard. Inside the hood,
two revolvers were discovered. Oh,the murder weapons from Mark's case, Well,

(01:09:29):
it was a ruger and a smithand Wesson, And yes, just
like you guessed, ballistics tests provedthat these were the weapons used to kill
Mark Cassie, And to go backto the GSR results. Handling the weapons
here and throwing them into the lakewas probably when Eric's hands became contaminated with

(01:09:51):
the gunshot residue that was then pickedup from the swab evidence, because he
took these guns, threw them intothe lake, then immediately drove back to
Kaufman where he took that gsrtest.That's how it got transferred. Yes,
so the act of getting rid ofevidence is actually what provided evidence the law

(01:10:13):
enforcement. Yeah. It's also reallyinteresting that the gun shot residue from the
two revolvers involved in the first murderwere what were deposited onto his hands that
were later tested in the second murdercase. Yeah, and it is,
like you said, it's interesting thathe went immediately to drop the revolvers in

(01:10:34):
the lake even though he had actuallyjust committed the second murder at that point,
which was McClellan's murders. Yeah.I wonder where those are. Yeah.
So, by the time the trialstarted in December of twenty fourteen,
they had a mountain of evidence againstEric Williams to implicate him in the three

(01:10:55):
murders. This might be the mostjust concrete case that we've ever covered,
and the sheer amount of evidence againstthis individual is just amazing. Yeah,
it's pretty cut and dry at thispoint. There's no way out. However,
prosecutors Shook and Worsky ultimately decided totry Eric only for Cynthia's murder.

(01:11:18):
A jury would be most sympathetic toher story, and it meant that should
he be found not guilty for whateverreason, they could try him again for
one of the other murders I see. However, this also meant that they
wouldn't be able to bring up anythingrelated to Mark's death in the trial,
and that was a little bit ofa problem because there was actually more physical

(01:11:42):
evidence linking him to Mark's death thanit was to Cynthia's death. That's so
weird. Now, for a murderto be considered a capital offense and thus
subject to the death penalty in Texas, certain conditions have to be met.
One is actually if the murder inretaliation for a criminal case, but that

(01:12:02):
didn't apply to Cynthia's murder. Itonly applied to Mike and Mark's murders.
That's an interesting strategic sidestep by theprosecution. Yeah. Well, another condition
is that the murder occurred during thecommission of another felony. Now, usually
this is applied where someone is killedduring a burglary or assault something like that.

(01:12:25):
In this case against Eric Williams,the other felony was Mike's murder.
So that's why they went forward withone murder charge and how they were still
able to keep it a capital offense. Because of how huge the story was
and how much it had affected thecommunity of Kaufman County, the decision was

(01:12:47):
made to move the trial to RockwallCounty. Yeah, and that's just directly
east of Dallas. Yeah, it'sright, it's right there next door.
The trial began in December of twentyfourteen, almost two years after Mark Cassie's
murder. Even without being able topresent all the evidence they had regarding Mark's

(01:13:09):
murder, there was still a lotthat connected him to Cynthia's all of which
was presented by the prosecution. Meanwhile, the defense didn't present a single witness,
although they yeah, although they didpoint out that no fingerprints, hair,
or DNA tied Eric Williams to Cynthia'smurder. In the end, after

(01:13:31):
a short deliberation of one hour andforty minutes, Eric Williams was found guilty
for the murder of Cynthia McClelland nextcame the punishment phase, and this is
when the prosecution was able to presentall of the physical evidence linking Eric to
Mark's murder as well, so themask, the murder weapons, the mercury

(01:13:54):
sable, as well as all theDNA evidence found inside. Right. Yeah,
during the punishment phase, you canpresent all kinds of other stuff exactly.
They also brought out several more witnesses, including two who had testified at
the theft trial, both Janice andJohn Burt, the attorney who said Eric
threatened to kill him and his familyover a simple scheduling conflict. Early Wiley

(01:14:19):
also testified, describing what had happenedwhen she found out that he had been
overcharging his hours. So this wasone of the other people that was on
his hit list. Now. Interestingly, just a few days before Eric's arrest,
Early Wiley was appointed by Governor RickPerry to serve as Mike's replacement as

(01:14:40):
Kaufman County District Attorney, a jobwhich she continues to hold to this day.
Good for her, yeah, rightnow. She also wrote a book
about her life, which includes herperspective of this story called a Target on
My Back, a prosecutor's terrifying taleof life on a hit list. Oh
interesting, Yeah, of course.The most dramatic testimony against Eric was his

(01:15:06):
ex wife kin Oh. I canimagine she's got all the deeds exactly.
She voluntarily testified, so there wasno official deal in place for her at
the time. She was very honestabout her drug addiction and about her own
willing participation in the murders, sayingquote, I was so drugged up,

(01:15:29):
and I so believed in Eric andeverything he told me. His anger was
my anger. Okay, So shewas actively taking a lot of drugs like
during this time, yes, okay, Well that starts to make a little
more sense as to why she wassuch a willing participant in all of this.
Yes. Absolutely. She also describedhow Eric was planning on killing Early

(01:15:53):
Wiley as well as Judge Ashworth.The defense was much more active during the
punishment phase, also put a bunchof people on the stand as character witnesses
for Eric, including his childhood scoutmaster and friends from when he was a
kid. They did their best tohumanize Eric and try to sway the jury

(01:16:13):
to vote to save his life andchoose life in prison. However, the
jury ended up sentencing Eric Williams todeath. The judge told him, quote,
at the end of the day,you murdered a little old lady,
and you would have murdered two moreinnocent people if you had the opportunity.
That puts you right there with CharlesManson, Jeffrey Dahmer and Richard Speck.

(01:16:38):
Okay, well, that's an interestingcomment by the judge because I've been wondering
the same kind of things this entiretime. What's the line between spree killer
and making a Christmas list of likeyou know who you want to take out
and if you're going into some bloodlustrage versus a serial killer. Yeah,

(01:16:59):
which it seemed like he might bein the middle ground, like somewhere in
the gray, because he was gettingenjoyment out of this. He was being
fulfilled, he was ramping up,he was getting more brutal, he was
designing new ways to murder people indifferent ways to fulfill his fantasy of taking
out all these people who had wrongedhim. So where do we draw the

(01:17:21):
line in the sand, like ishe a serial killer or you know,
is it just still up in theair. Yeah, I mean, I
think that's a really good question,because, like you said it, he
seems like a spree killer and thatthese were revenge fantasies for him. But
at the same time, there weremonths that these murders that he actually did

(01:17:43):
commit, you know, there wasmonths between them, so there was a
proper cooling down period, which ispart of what you need to have as
a serial killer. You have tohave a cooling down period. And with
Early Wiley, for example, thiswas a completely different situation than he was
angry at horror about versus the theftaccusations and everything else. So it was
almost as if he was just hewanted to kill anyone who had ever wronged

(01:18:09):
him in his mind, which isnot a serial killer necessarily, but it's
also not a spree killer necessarily.Like it's it's a very unique phenomenon,
and it's very much like somebody likeChristopher Dorner, who this is somebody who
feels like he is justified in whathe's doing, that he has revenge and

(01:18:31):
then he's doing the right thing,almost for the benefit of the rest of
us, which is obviously crazy tothink about, but this is what these
kinds of people believe, so isthat what his end all? Like?
I guess if we're going to tryand put ourselves into his headspace, is
that what he was trying to dois leave society a better place by taking

(01:18:53):
these people out. I mean,I don't know. I think that's maybe
what he would have thought he wasdoing, But no, he was just
killing people who he thought did somethingthat wrong time. Yeah, and at
least from his wife's accounts, itsounds like he really enjoyed it and it
built on these fantasies that that's whatit seems like for sure. Yeah.
He makes me lean more towards theserial killer side of it, was the

(01:19:15):
enjoyment part, the romanticizing about it, Like it sounds like he was getting
off on this, Yeah, Imean, yeah, yeah, and does
sound like that now. Eric hassince appealed his sentence back in twenty seventeen,
but it was upheld and he currentlyremains on death row. Soon after
Eric's trial, Kim accepted a pleadeal offered to her by the prosecution.

(01:19:39):
She pled guilty to the murder ofMark Hassey and received a forty year sentence.
According to Catherine Casey, she wrotethat this was so there was one
person officially charged in each of thecases. So you had Eric convicted for
Cynthia's murder and you had her convictedfor Mark's murder, but nobody really is

(01:20:02):
ultimately convicted for Mike. That's true, but I mean he was also involved
in the Yeah, I mean,yeah, exactly. And by the way,
the families of the victims did approvethis plea deal with Kim, so
this was something they found perfectly acceptable. Kim will be eligible for parole in

(01:20:24):
twenty thirty three, another ten yearsor so for her. Now, speaking
of Katherine Casey, she got involvedwith the case around the time of the
trial. Obviously, Eric and Kimhad been inundated with interview requests by the
media, and besides those few shortrequests that Eric had granted right at the

(01:20:44):
beginning, they both had refused totalk. Katherine Casey is a very prolific
true crime writer and journalist who hadbeen following the case for some time,
and so she decided to shoot hershot, and she put in requests for
both of them, and to hersurprise, both Eric and Kim agreed to
speak with her. Really yes,and so over the next year and a

(01:21:08):
half, Casey wrote to them backand forth in prison, and even came
and visited them in prison and spoketo them in person. She researched the
case and spoke to others involved.In twenty eighteen, she published the book
In Plain Sight, where she laysout the entire timeline of the crimes,

(01:21:28):
along with exactly what Kim and Ericwere doing and planning along the way.
The book provides a ton of contextabout all of these sort of like Game
of Thrones level politics that were goingon in Coffin County, as well as
these interpersonal conflicts that precipitated the murders. Sure. Yeah, And like I

(01:21:50):
said last episode, there is somuch more to this case and so many
more details that Catherine Casey was ableto wrest from Kim and sort of get
her side of the story. Andthat's what makes her book so special.
So again, that's why her bookis just something that you need to read
if you want to know more aboutthis case. It's very important that you

(01:22:11):
just you go ahead and just readher book. Yeah for sure, Yeah,
that sounds fascinating. Casey describes Kimas a completely different person now that
she's off drugs, and she describesher as being profoundly regretful of her actions,
especially Cynthia's murder. And it seemslike in Kim's drug haze, as

(01:22:32):
well as Eric's manipulation of her andher utter dependence on him, Kim thought
that she agreed with killing Mike andMark, but even then she knew that
killing Cynthia was wrong and unnecessary.Yeah. I mean, Eric had killed
Mark at a time where he knewthat Mark would be alone. He could

(01:22:55):
have done the same to Mike,but he did not. He opted to
kill Mike when he knew Cynthia wasthere and would have to be killed as
well. Right, Yeah, Andwell, I'm glad that she spoke to
all this because as it was unfoldingthroughout the episode, I was ready to
just like ride her out of townand tar and feather her and just lump

(01:23:15):
her in with Eric. But itdoes sound like she was manipulated and you
know, under the influence the entiretime, just a tool that Eric was
using, like a pawn on thechessboard. Yeah. Absolutely, And I
mean Casey describes Kim as being veryopen and honest about pretty much everything.
She was open and honest with investigatorswhen she was telling her story, and

(01:23:36):
she was very open honest with CatherineA. Casey when she was doing her
research, and in fact that's wherepredominantly she got all of her information on
the case, which was really throughKim. Eric, on the other hand,
went the route of complete and absolutedenial. Shockingly, right, can

(01:23:57):
you believe that even though Eric talkedto Catherine Casey quite a bit, he
would never admit to anything about themurders. And I mean, this is
a guy who wouldn't even admit tostealing the monitors or the other office supplies.
This is not a man who isever going to admit to being a
murderer. So that's probably not ahuge shock. It's also not shocking that

(01:24:21):
he'd liked to talk a lot toanyone who would listened about anything other than
the murders. Yeah, he hassince said that all of the stuff found
in the storage unit wasn't his,and he even goes so far as to
say that he knows he knows whothe real murderer is in these cases,

(01:24:41):
but of course he refuses to saywho. What about the DNA from the
goggles and like all that stuff,Well, it's all set up, and
I think I do believe that ifI were to hazard a guess that's that's
ultimately what his point is is thisThis is all a part of the setup
that first started when he was convictedfor his gift. You know, the

(01:25:02):
hierarchy, the echelons of the KaufmanCounty illuminati have figured out a way to
also kill two lawyers and an innocentwoman. Yeah, but also penned on
him. Yes that I hate thisguy. Yeah, he's pretty awful.
But I have actually a little bitof good news. I know we're about

(01:25:24):
to get into your good news.I have a little bit of good news
to like end this story because Ithink it's a really cute note, pretty
good news. So Cynthia had adaughter named Christina, and we remember that
Cynthia had a close friend named Leah. Leah had a son, the police
officer named CJ. Well, Cynthiahad often teased that she wanted her daughter

(01:25:48):
Christina and Leah's son CJ to gettogether, once even asking CJ if he
believed in arranged marriages, which reallyembarrassed the heck out of Christina, as
you can imagine. Yeah, well, it just so happens that Christina must
have been onto something she must haveknown something was up because Christina and CJ

(01:26:12):
started dating and just before the trialthey ended up getting married. Oh wow.
And so obviously this was a verybittersweet moment because since she and Mike
were not there to celebrate with them, but they knew that. Cynthia would
have been very overjoyed to have knownthat her daughter was getting with her with,

(01:26:34):
like, you know, her friend'sson who she had always teased about,
like, oh, you guys arepretty perfect together, and you get
together, and then they eventually did. So I think that was a very
cute ending to such a very tragicstory. It is a very sweet note.
And at least she got to bematchmaker in the end, exactly.
Yeah and hopefully Yeah, I'm surethey are going to carry her with them

(01:26:57):
the rest of their lives. Andthen that that's really cool, A very
sweet moment. Boy, what awhopper of a case that you brought to
us. That was a lot totake in, but it was all very
good and all very woven together.One of the most fascinating interesting cases we've
done in a while, and Ilove the two parter of it. I

(01:27:17):
was not expecting part two to bethis intricate and fascinating and complex. I'm
glad it was, because boy woulda tale it was. Yeah, so
you can see why it had tobe a two parter or we had to
go into so many details in thosecase. But very good job and an
excellent two parter to cement our centennialepisode, our century mark. We're now

(01:27:42):
centaurion podcasters. I hope that everyonefound it as interesting as I did,
because I thought this was a spectacularepisode. But would you like some good
news after all this? I would? Okay, question, first question?
Okay, I know we'd dabble indifferent types of good news from time to
time. I know you like animalnews. Do you like baby animal news?

(01:28:06):
One? All right, Well I'vegot a good one for you right
after this. Oh buddy, allright, welcome back to good news everybody.

(01:28:32):
And you know Aaron said she likesanimal news and baby animal news.
But I've got something better for you. I got two stories about two baby
animals. I'm excited. I likebaby animals. Okay, great, and
it also involves two different zoos fromour stomping ground from Dallas and Fort Worth.

(01:28:53):
So let's start with the first one. This past week, Dallas Zoo
made a major announcement. They toldthe world be a Twitter that a baby
hippo was born in late October,just a day before Halloween, to which
they said, quote, what atreat in a Halloween themed post. Oh

(01:29:14):
okay, it's no trick. It'sa hippo treat. It is a little
treat. Yeah. An adult femalehippo named Biopolo gave birth to a healthy
calf on Sunday, October thirty,around about five thirty pm. Zookeepers were
closely monitoring Biopolo's, you know,her development over several weeks. She was
getting close to giving birth, andthey actually had her sectioned off into an

(01:29:40):
area where she had her own pool, and there was a berthing window and
cameras set up very carefully monitored.And then her pregnancy started developing really quickly.
And this actually started happening over youknow, the course of just a
few hours, and the zoo saysthat her labor went very smoothly. And
if you are interested, you canactually watch the birthing of a hippo via

(01:30:05):
their Twitter feed. I mean,it sounds really gross, but it happens
in the water. It's like awater birth, you know, okay,
because they're hippo is like, youknow, they live in the water.
It's no, it's not. It'snot that gross because I've seen a lot
of birthed animals and while you know, the wonder of nature and life,

(01:30:26):
it's great and we should all respectthat. But I don't. I don't
need to be like all up init, you know what I mean.
I usually feel the same way,but I just happened to end up watching
it and I was like, well, that's that's kind of beautiful. I
love it. Yeah, And thebaby is obviously super cute. And there's
there's a really famous baby hippo Fiona, you know the internet. She's the

(01:30:48):
cutest little thing. Well, thisis the new Fiona and it doesn't have
a name, yeat so. Butthey do say that the little baby hippo
was observed nursing within an hour ofbirth and spent the rest of the night
laying close to its mother in theirpool behind the scenes of Dallas Zoo.

(01:31:09):
It's super cute and I will putthe links to all these stories in the
episode notes by the way, forboth of these, so you can get
close up and personal with a hippobirth like I said. The baby's unnamed,
and the zoo staff usually waits toget to know an animal's personality before
picking a name. The zoologists estimatethat the baby was about fifty to sixty

(01:31:30):
pounds at birth, which is aboutaverage for newborn hippos. Eventually, hippos
will grow to between ten point eightto sixteen point five feet long and up
to five point two feet tall atthe shoulder. The average female weighs around
three thousand pounds, while males canweigh anywhere from thirty five hundred pounds to

(01:31:55):
nine thousand and nine hund twenty pounds. Why that's a big boy. Yeah,
so a lot more variants in malesthan in the females. But did
you know that the ancestor of thehippo and thracotheris, which first emerged about
forty million years ago, roamed aroundNorth America, possibly until the end of
the Last Ice Age. It wasaround with Paleo Indians and early Native Americans.

(01:32:19):
Yeah, there is evidence that theancestor of the hippo was in North
America, is specifically in Texas.Dang interesting. Yeah, there you go
do some research now, Yeah,you gotta get that research. But the
precious new baby hippo will debut inthe hippopotamus habitat in a few weeks at

(01:32:40):
the Dallas Zoo, and zookeepers hopethat they will both join with Biopellow's other
female child, Adonna, who willturn three in May. So this female
hippo is just churning out babies andas an awesome mother by all accounts.
Awesome. Yeah, So next wehave another baby animal ready for number two.

(01:33:01):
Yes, the Fort Worth Zoo welcomedits newest member of their primate family
last week. The male Western Lowlandgorilla that was born by parents Gracie and
Elmo is the second one of thespecies to be born at the zoo.
Do you know the other baby Idon't. His name is Gus, and

(01:33:23):
he was an Internet sensation and he'sawesome. And I will tell you that
the best time to go see Gusand his now newborn little baby brother is
during the winter months because they can'tbe out when it's cold because it's very
bad for Western Lowland guerrillas, Sothey will be in the interior enclosures.
Can you get up close and personalwith them through the window. And Gus

(01:33:46):
is a riot like he loves toplay, and he loves to interact with
people at the window. Last timeI was there and I saw Gus,
he was playing and like messing aroundwith kids that were up there and imitating
them. Hilarious. And now theyhave a newborn baby Lowland guerilla that will
be there in the same exhibit.So yeah, and the whole primate exhibit

(01:34:09):
at Fort Worth Zoo is spectacular.It's one of actually it's been voted number
one zoo in North America several times. And the primate exhibit is just amazing.
So go and check it out ifyou have it. I don't know
if I mentioned this, but Guswas born in twenty sixteen, so it's
been a little while. He nowhas his little baby brother. So Gus
is now six years old, andthe baby doesn't have a name either,

(01:34:33):
but they say that he is stayingclose to Gracie and also Elmo. Elmo's
been photographed like playing with the babyand holding the baby. Apparently Elmo is
a really good dad. Yeah,this is his second boy, so he's
experienced. According to a tweet fromthe zoo, the little newborn Lowland guerilla

(01:34:54):
weighed between four to five pounds atbirth, and the public can meet him
on November night at the thirtieth anniversaryFestival of the Zoo. Western Lowland guerrillas
are critically endangered according to the WorldWildlife Fund. Even though they boast a
large population of all guerrilla subspecies,poaching and disease like the deadly bolavirus has

(01:35:16):
reduced their numbers by more than sixtypercent in the last twenty to twenty five
years. So it's really important tobetter understand how to breed Western Loland guerrillas
in captivity and also how to hopefullyrepopulate Western Loland guerrillas if we need to
in the future. Now, wetalked about how big hippos can be.

(01:35:38):
Adult male guerrillas weigh on an averageabout three hundred pounds and up to five
hundred pounds, so pretty big,big boys, and they stand up to
six feet tall and have armspans upto eight feet. And eventually Gus and
his little brother will probably have tobe moved to another zoo or enclosed because

(01:36:00):
they will eventually compete with Elmo atsome point because he is the master of
his harem of gorillas, which iswhat it's called. Yes, yeah,
So if you want to find outany more information about those sweet little babies
that we're just born. You canfollow the links in the bottom of the
notes. I want to go seethem new gorilla bybies at the zoo for
sure. And hippies and hippo babiesof course. Yeah, yeah, she's

(01:36:25):
already like playbiting on her mom andstuff. Baby animals are just the best.
They are the best. Well,excellent job. Let's go ahead and
mosey on over to the after show. Well, we're in the after show
now. You can find us onTwitter at ACNC podcast and on Instagram at

(01:36:48):
All Crime Now Cattle, or onFacebook in our discussion group All Crime Now
Cattle Facebook discussion group. That's correct, And we're about to name off some
really awesome patrons. And if youwant to become a patron of the show,
just head over to patreon dot comslash All Crime No Cattle. There's
a lot of goodies and benefits overthere. If you don't like listening to

(01:37:11):
commercials, don't may just pay acouple bucks a month and you won't have
any commercials. Yeah, you canalso get more episodes and extra content.
It's really cool. Anyways, ournewest patrons that need Their shout outs are
Megan Romero, Randy Garza, JenniferDavidson, Joyce Davis. Thank you so

(01:37:31):
much for your generous contribution to theshow. And as always, we also
have to let you know who werethe honorary producers of this episode, which
are our Texas Rangers, the highesttier that we have on our Patreon,
and that would be Amanda Mattaford,Don Maloney, E g. Gail Parker,
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(01:37:58):
Lynn Schantz, Bicky Sweet, andSarah Nicholson. You guys are the
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for supporting us all right, andI think with that we are done,
so until next time, crime isBigger in Texas, y'all, Audios, goodbye,

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Ep 100: Revenge in Kaufman County, Part II

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