How is Burn Boot Camp differentiating itself in the competitive boutique fitness market? In this episode of All Things Fitness and Wellness, Amber Burke, Chief Operating Officer of Burn Boot Camp, shares insights into the company’s expansion, member engagement strategies, and the evolving landscape of group fitness.
Burn Boot Camp has built a strong community-driven model, focusing on empowering its members while maintaining scalability across multiple locations. In this conversation, Burke details the company’s approach to trainer development, CRM automation, member retention, and the integration of technology in fitness businesses. She also discusses the challenges of maintaining a strong brand identity while scaling a boutique fitness concept nationally.
Key topics covered in this episode:
-The role of automation and CRM in streamlining operations while preserving a personal touch
-Why the trainer-member connection is the foundation of long-term retention
How Burn Boot Camp is adapting to changing consumer expectations in the fitness industry
-Strategies for expanding a boutique fitness brand without losing its core identity
-The impact of technology and digital engagement in modern fitness business models
-Future trends in boutique fitness and what operators need to consider in the coming years
This episode provides valuable insights for fitness entrepreneurs, gym owners, industry executives, and anyone looking to understand the future of boutique fitness business models. Whether you are considering expanding your own fitness brand or refining your member engagement strategies, this discussion highlights key factors that contribute to long-term success.
Subscribe to All Things Fitness and Wellness for in-depth conversations with industry leaders, covering topics like business growth, technology integration, and consumer trends shaping the future of fitness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Having an effective CRM to be able to automate touch
(00:03):
points is critically important,but it will always come back to
what is the human element tomake sure that not only the
trainer that trains me is worthcoming back to every single
time, right? I don't care howmany automations you send me. I
don't care how many promos yousend me. I don't care how cheap
it is if it's not resonating andfulfilling the needs that I have
across my fitness journey,that's the value proposition
(00:25):
that's never going to actuallyretain.
Krissy Vann (00:29):
This is all things fitness and wellness, uniting
industry thought leaders and fitinfluencers on the mission to
inspire innovation and encouragepeople to live a life fit and
well. On today's episode, I'mjoined by Amber Burke, Chief
Operating Officer of burn bootcamp with over two decades in
the industry, starting as astrength and conditioning coach
before moving into fitnesscenter operations and franchise
(00:51):
leadership. Amber has seen theevolution of the fitness
business firsthand. She'smanaged everything from
education and sales to drivingoperational growth at a national
level. One element Amber reallyemphasizes in today's
conversation is that she knowsthat no amount of automation or
technology can replace realhuman connection. In this
(01:12):
episode, we get into the role ofautomation and fitness business
success and its limitations, whypersonal connection and
community are still the mostpowerful retention tools,
lessons from Amber's career inscaling operations and building
strong teams and what fitnessbusiness owners should be
focusing on in 2025 before weget to it, be sure to hit like
and subscribe. We have newpodcast episodes weekly
(01:35):
featuring industry thoughtleaders and influencers. I'm
your host, Krissy Vann, and thisis ATF W I don't think I've ever
been so excited to podcast,because not only do I have Amber
Burke here from burn boot camp,but for those that are tuning in
via video, I think we complimenteach other quite well, and I
just gave Amber kudos for bestsetup. So the bar has been set.
(01:58):
Everybody that's right. I loveit. Thank you. I'm so pleased to
have you Amber, and it's one ofthe things that I really love
about the fitness industry. Itis so tight knit. People are so
willing to move and learn andgrow together. And you and I
essentially just connectedthrough the LinkedIn universe.
We were talking a
Unknown (02:15):
little bit before we started recording, and it's I've
only ever worked in fitness, andso I always joke that I've never
actually had a real job becauseI just wear spandex every day.
But to have seen the growth andthe maturity of fitness and now
wellness as an industry, asbrands, as an opportunity for
someone to have financialsuccess and legacy, you know, is
(02:36):
pretty incredible. And so it'sbeen very fun. I always say it's
like the Forrest Gump effect,where you're just like in the
right place at the right timefor the the duration of history
is I feel like that's kind ofhow my experience has been in
fitness.
Krissy Vann (02:47):
I can only imagine, because even for myself, I just
stepped into this space in 2022prior to that, my only
experience was as a consumer,and it's been so fascinating to
come in after, obviously thehuge uprooting of so many
individuals through thepandemic, this rebuilding phase,
and then really this refocus andunification of messaging that
(03:10):
seems to be taking place, andthis fresh definition of what's
happening in these spaces thatit is mental wellness, it is
social wellness, it is physicalwellness. And to your point,
when you started out, it reallywas just about physique. And you
have been in this industry awhile, so I'm curious, because I
looked at your education, itseems like you were just
bullseye. This is where you weregoing. Where was that seed
(03:31):
planted?
Unknown (03:31):
Yeah, very early on. So my dad was a PGA golf pro. He
ran a club. He wasn't on tour,but he ran a club, and he was a
PGA pro, and my I was a dancer.
At first, dancing in gymnastics.
I started when I was five. I hada lot of energy, and so my
parents were like, what do we dowith this kid? And I was the
third kid. I had two olderbrothers. They were tired, so
(03:54):
they were like, throw her intoeverything, which I just
assimilated to. And so I diddance and gymnastics for a very,
very long time. Started playingsoccer when I was in sixth
grade, did all three for about ayear and a half, and then I was
like, Okay, I can't do all the Ican't be in three places at one
time. So I just chose soccer.
Loved it. Took that throughcollege. In high school, I ran,
I dove, I swim, I did track andfield, I played soccer in
(04:18):
softball, and then soccerthrough college. And so I was
joked that I went to college toplay soccer and happened to
graduate. So, you know, withinthat, it was just, I've just
always been very aligned to justnot, I wouldn't say fitness,
because I didn't know that'sreally what I was doing, but
just movement and sport andcompetition. And so once I
understood, like, what thatmight look like, it's a job.
(04:39):
Then my undergraduate degree isexercise science, and then my
master's degree was sportsmanagement. And so I do feel
very blessed and lucky that I'vebeen able to sustain the same
career path for my entirecareer, because I'm I don't feel
like I go to work every day likethe fact that they pay. Me to do
this, I think is prettyincredible.
Krissy Vann (05:02):
That's the absolute goal in life, when you align the
passion. And the thing thatdoesn't surprise me is you
ending up in a leadershipposition, because not only
obviously, this is somethingthat you were passionate about
and resonated with, but I dofeel like what's instilled in
you, if you are somebody that isdoing athleticism at those
levels. Growing up, you learn alot of leadership skills along
(05:25):
the way. So I'm curious for burnBoot Camp, where did your
relationship start with them?
Because obviously you also haveseen your career path grow
through the organization.
Unknown (05:35):
Yeah, I started as a member, so I love that. Yeah,
for three years and I was amember, and then I just thought
this has literally changed mylife, personally. I think it can
change my life professionally.
And I had worked in an HP, hblpgym for 11 years. I was very
happy. I mean, I was at the topof, kind of probably where I was
(05:55):
going to peek out, verysuccessful. Loved it, but there
was just something that kind ofjust was missing a little bit.
And I recognized that I wasgetting that as a member at burn
boot camp. And I also recognizedjust having that hat on every
time I walked into the gym. Iwas like, they are so successful
and but I'm still operationallygoing that could be better, that
(06:16):
could be better, that could bebetter, that could be better.
And so I applied for a job thatI didn't want. They offered it
to me. I turned it down, butthen I already had kind of
prepared, like a three stepprocess of of something that I
had kind of noticed from a salesculture perspective, that I felt
like I could really impact, thatI could turn into some ROI. And
so they took a bet on me, andand six years later, or three
(06:38):
years later, now as a teammember. So I've been with burn
for six years total, but that'sthat's the entry story, and to
being with burn. So
Krissy Vann (06:48):
it's interesting. I just had a conversation very
adjacent to this, with KathleenFerguson, of course, 360 where
she was really emphasizing,obviously, the labor shortages
that we're seeing these days andtruly understanding the
importance of cultivating who'sin your doors, and sometimes
even your clients, are the bestchampions and potentially the
(07:09):
best staff that you can have,especially boutique, it's such a
focus on close knit, oncommunity. Truthfully, what I
feel like a lot of HV LPS ordifferent models are trying to
emulate now is that essencethat's found in boutique walls.
I don't want you to give awayyour secret sauce, but do you
recall what those elements werethat you noticed about their
(07:29):
business model, that you thoughtthat they could do differently?
Yeah,
Unknown (07:32):
absolutely. And it's no secret, and we laugh about it,
but no one actually asked me tojoin. So for 18 months, because
I was doing, I was turning 40. Iknow I don't look like it, but I
was turning 40, it's great forourselves. I was doing a
bodybuilding show, because whodoesn't want to get on stage
when they're 40 in a bikini and,you know, do things. It was like
(07:55):
a bucket list thing. And so Iwas kind of, I just done it, and
I was deciding, did I want to doit again? And all the girls in
my neighborhood were like, Youhave to come to burn boot camp.
I was like, I don't know. I'mkind of a gym rat, like, I just
like to go to a dirty gym andpick stuff up and put it down.
And they were like, No, you'regonna love it. And of course, I
loved it, and so. But what wasreally funny is, like, no one
(08:17):
ever asked me to join, but itwas the most beautiful community
that I had really been a part ofit was what I didn't know I
needed or wanted. And so I justkept we had free Saturdays. So I
kept coming to free Saturdays,because, by the way, I work in a
gym, like, I could work out freeif I wanted to. So I kept coming
to free Saturdays. And then Ibought a voucher, and then I
bought a Groupon, and then Ibought, like, I just kept buying
(08:38):
all these different things. Noone ever asked me if I actually
wanted to be a member. And sowhen I interviewed, I gave that
I did a PowerPoint, I gave thatpresentation, and I was like,
here's, here's some things thatI think, if you're not even
asking people to join, and youhave this amount of success,
let's just start asking, andthen let's start talking
referrals, and then let's starttalking retention. And so you
(09:00):
know that element, and then, youknow, we have nutrition, we have
active wear, we have bird ondemand. There's other revenue
streams that just that conceptkind of goes into and then just
intentionally running thebusiness we you mentioned
passion. We are very much insideout. We have most of our
franchise partners were membersthat went this changed my life
(09:21):
personally. How can it change mylife professionally, too, and
from a financial legacyperspective? So when we have
that, it's really easy for us tokind of turn that in. It was
easy for me to go, it's so hardto teach passion. I can't teach
passion, but I can teachprocess. I can get you the right
tech platforms. I can make surethat you understand operations.
(09:41):
So you know, being able to justkind of push all of that
together has been really, that'sreally been the secret sauce, I
guess. But it's not secret. Wedidn't reinvent the wheel. We
just kept pushing it forwardwell.
Krissy Vann (09:52):
And sometimes you need a friendly face that is
going to tell you what yourblind spots are, and it sounds
like that's exactly what youdid. And then you. Like this is
how I can help you grow and growit has 375 gyms across, 41
states, 44 There you go. Not asmall feat, but the thing that
you mentioned in there was thefact that a lot of the franchise
(10:14):
operators were members. And sowe know that boutique fitness,
the real special element is thecommunity that is fostered in
those walls. So when you'regrowing and on this path of
expansion, how in the boutiqueworld do you make sure that that
remains at the core when you aregoing through this expansion,
how is it not lost sight ofYeah,
Unknown (10:36):
I mean, it has to be a system and a process. You know,
you can't scale tribalknowledge, right? And I think
that when we think about, how doyou systemize passion, how do
you systemize community, itcomes down to process and
accountability, and, you know,just validating what you expect,
but doing it in a way where it'sit's very rewarding, and you
(10:59):
almost have that instantgratification. So when you have
a trial member come in and youexecute, we call it the blue
carpet experience, becauseeverything is blue at burn but
when we execute the blue carpetexperience in the right way, and
each and every one of thosesteps is intentionally designed
to be a touch point that makesthis person feel special. But
it's not a touch point that isjust made up. It's not busy
(11:23):
work. It's not it's veryintentional on understanding why
they're there, how they musteredup the courage to walk through
the door, what they want to getout of it, and then ultimately,
are we providing that to them?
You know, in a way, whether it'ssubjective or objective and
qualitative or quantitative, arethey seeing that and able to
really make a decision at theend of their first camp to go.
This is the answer to what I waslooking for. And so if you can,
(11:45):
it's really, you got to create asystem and a process that your
people can execute, and then youmeasure but when it's done
intentionally and with a truesense of desire to change
someone's life. And we hear thatall the time in fitness, I think
community has become thisbuzzword. And, you know,
sometimes I'm like, just usingthat too much, like, show me
what that really means for yourbrand. I think each of us really
(12:07):
do feel like we have acommunity, but I will argue that
ours is pretty strong well,
Krissy Vann (12:15):
and there's to your point, there's processes put
behind that, but I think it canbe difficult for those that are
doing the franchise model tokeep that consistency in the
brand while also balancing theentrepreneurial spirit of those
that are heading up thefranchise. So how do you kind of
balance that to ensure thosecore values do remain and so to
(12:36):
your point, the blue carpetremains blue, and you don't, all
of a sudden have someone that'slike, well, maybe, like, a
little splash of red over here,keep that in
Unknown (12:44):
check. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, it's, you
know, profit and culture.
There's, there's a book you canread about it, but it's like,
that's really where you have tofind what is profit and culture?
What is the balance of profitand culture mean to you? What
does it mean to your brand? Iwould say, you know, as a as a
boutique fitness brand versusother franchise concepts or
quick service restaurants likeprofit and culture balance is
(13:06):
very different for that type offranchise versus our type of
franchise, where we have tounderstand that the balance of
profit and culture has to has toauthentically transmit through
our team members, and it alsohas to authentically translate
to our members, because at theend of the day, we're all small
businesses in a franchise,right? And so every single small
business entity is there fortheir own financial legacy I
(13:28):
like to call generational wealthand health, not only for them as
individuals and business owners,but for their communities,
because most of them are very,very owner operator, tied to
their community. And so there isthis inherent desire for their
to deliver a product or aservice that truly represents
them as people, but then alsogives that person the
(13:51):
opportunity to have some sort ofreward or result from from
experiencing your product orservice. And so it almost
doesn't always have to come fromus to hold people accountable to
the franchise brand. You know,they really do align with it and
want to do it themselves. And ofcourse, we have rogue people
that that have this idea.
(14:12):
They're like, this is the bestidea ever, right? And sometimes
that turns into an alpha test ora beta test, and we either prove
it right or we prove it wrong,and if it's right, then we scale
it. And if we don't, then wesunset it, and we say, maybe
we'll revisit this. And sothrough our franchise Advisory
Council and other committees, wedo bring people in, because I
think there's a collaborationwhere if I feel like I'm part of
the conversation, and I get tobe heard and I get to be part of
(14:33):
it, it doesn't always feel likewe're just dictating to you as a
brand. And so you know,balancing that, and at the end
of the day, they're for profitbusinesses, and you can't be
afraid to make a profit, becausethat's what you bought into. And
you want to make sure that yourteam members understand that
profitability is very important,because that's what gives me the
ability as a franchise partnerto give you a raise, to have a
(14:55):
career path for you, to goinvest in another location. And
if I can do that, then thatalso. Helps to Kathleen's point
about, you know, the revolvingdoor in fitness, for sure,
there's there's a longevityfactor that comes in. And if
you're a trainer and listen, Itrained for a really long time,
it's hard. It's hot on yourbody, it's hard on your voice,
it's hard on your mind. And atsome point you want to graduate
(15:18):
out of that and say, What is mycareer path look like. And so
for our franchise partners, wewant to be able to have that
that element too. And so thecloser they are to the brand and
executing the processes, thecloser they are to seeing that
kind of legacy and future buildout
Krissy Vann (15:32):
without question.
And I love that you highlightthat collaborative approach of
you know, perhaps this idea allof a sudden becomes a beta test.
Because, to your point, a lot ofpeople simply want to be heard,
but your own experience was youflagging a blind spot that they
hadn't noticed, and then theyrealized there was a better way.
And to that exact effect, theindividuals that are on the
ground with their locations anddifferent demographics coming in
(15:53):
the door, I'm sure they flagthings where you're like, Huh?
We hadn't quite looked at itthrough that lens, and it can be
so effective. I'm curious onthat note, you obviously have
such a community that is in yourecosystem in real time in 2025
which means, you know, thetemperature check of the
boutique fitness industry atthis point. So I'm curious, how
(16:13):
are things looking in boutiquefitness right now, in your point
of view, I understand obviouslyburn boot camp has been on this
path of growth, which isfantastic to see. But what's the
climate?
Unknown (16:26):
Yeah, I think the climate for for us is burn is is
moving pretty well. We actuallyjust got some some financials
back in comparing 23 to 24 andwe're seeing our median and
averages move up by percent. Andthat, as that denominator
changes, we're still seeinggrowth, and so I think it is
indicative of the boutiquefitness industry for people and
(16:47):
brands that really have afundamental understanding of who
they are and what they do. Ithink where brands and the
industry in general gets alittle squirrelly is when we
start to try to be everything toeveryone and listen. We've been
we've done that in certaininstances, but I think if you
can come back to the fundamentalnon negotiable parts of who you
(17:08):
are as a brand, then you knowwho your audience is, and if you
need to expand your audience,one of the things I learned
recently at an athletic summitback in January was they talked
about the unexpected customer,And it resonated with me,
because I think not only for ourfranchise development before,
for our franchise partners, ifwe kind of get stuck in who our
audience is, it's limiting forus to be able to grow as a
(17:31):
brand, and the results of beingin boutique fitness and so, you
know, boot camp in general canbe very off putting to some
people. It just sounds hard.
Krissy Vann (17:41):
People don't like hard. For some people, if
they've never dabbled, right,they're like, yeah, and
Unknown (17:46):
bring it on. But for a lot of people, they're like, No,
thank you. So how do we overcomethat, and how do we speak to
those audiences, and how do wedo it a little bit differently?
And where are we speaking tothem? Are we in the right
platforms? And, you know, are weusing the right data from a pre
positioned marketing perspectiveto make sure that I can quell
some of those initial anxietiesaround joining a boot camp for
(18:08):
someone who who truly does needit. And so, you know, I think
for the for the industry ingeneral, you're seeing a lot of
those conversations aboutcommunity, about authenticity,
you know, strength in general isprobably one of the biggest
things that we do really wellfor women, we started as a
women's only brand, and thenpost COVID, we went to women and
families, but, you know, we'renow investing in 110s 120s 130s
(18:33):
140s and 150 pound dumbbells,because we've got women in our
gyms that need those. And Ithink that's probably one of the
best markers of our commitmentto developing and designing
fitness protocol for women iswhen our gyms are going our
women need the 150s and like Igot you, we'll be there for you.
So it's pretty interesting. Can
Krissy Vann (18:53):
you elaborate a little bit about how you've
pivoted marketing strategies,especially going from targeting
women only and then expanding tofamilies like what have been the
most effective forms of outreachfor you, especially, I love that
you highlight that because wetalk about gym timidation all
the time. Every singleconference is about the other
80% and you kind of have thisadded extra hoop because you
(19:14):
have to do a little bit ofeducation before they even walk
in the door that they're goingto be able to walk the next day.
I mean, maybe,
Unknown (19:22):
maybe it depends on if it depends on what camp was.
That day was leg and plyo. Youwere not walking the next day.
The stairs might be challenging.
This little bag of Epsom salt.
Krissy Vann (19:34):
Are you really, yeah. Oh, that is brilliant
marketing. Yes, I love that. You
Unknown (19:40):
know, it's funny. You asked. I don't know that. I
would say that we've pivoted. Iwould say that we've leaned in.
I think when, when we look atour differentiators, so we have
free childcare in all of ourgyms, which has always been a
thing, and it's always been oneof the biggest differentiators,
some of our competitors are nowadding that and exploring that
as a as a service. But you know,for us, it's always. Been the
(20:00):
foundation, because our initialmarketing was fit community of
moms. And as we know, moms drivemost of the purchasing behaviors
anyway, across any industry. Andso it's really just continuing
to lean into that and thenfocusing on their ability to
scale us. Because if they arethe decision maker and they have
(20:20):
the knowledge and the experienceto go. This is my place. You
need to come with me. Husband,you need to come with me.
Friend, you need to come withme. So I would say, leaning into
who we are, fundamentally makingsure that our differentiators
and our amenities arerepresented in our marketing
materials, and that the eventsthat we produce, whether it's a
national event or a hyper localevent continues to reflect those
(20:43):
items of things. I mean, listen,people join gyms for results, so
you always have to constantlycome back and say, Hey, we
understand that you're coming toburn boot camp because you have
a certain amount of results, butthey always, always stay for the
experience in the community. Andso I'm not trying to teach and
give you insight on my Instagramabout all of the amazing
(21:06):
community and things I gotta, Igotta capture the attention that
you have for the four secondsbefore you scroll. I gotta, I
gotta harness that enough tohave you come in then we can, we
can do all the blue carpet, youknow, experience and community
stuff kind of on the back end.
So I think it's again, kind ofjust coming back to knowing who
you are, what you do, who youraudience is, and then who your
audience isn't, and how muchpenetration do we want to get
(21:28):
into that audience, and how dowe speak to them? It's in that
four seconds to get them to fillout a form, or, you know, to
sign up for a trial so
Krissy Vann (21:38):
well. And then to your point, once you have them,
that retention piece becomes soimportant. And I really
appreciate that your own journeyand your own story was kind of
like, hey, no one's even askedme to join, which is hilarious.
They're lucky that you just kepton coming because of the
product. But when it comes tothat retention piece, huge
conversation almost everywherewe go these days is about
leveraging technology. And I'mjust curious for burn boot camp.
(22:00):
Are there any things that you'veimplemented on the tech side to
kind of harness that retentionpiece, or reiterate to your
members different offerings thatyou have on top?
Unknown (22:10):
Yeah, I mean, it's a work in progress. Look, Tech is
a journey that's never ending.
It's, for sure, a marathon. Butyou know, one of the things that
we did a couple years ago is westarted cleaning up our data,
because trash in is trash out,and you can't make effective
decisions if you don't reallyknow what's going on. So we did
a really big cleanup with ourPOS system to make sure that we
really, truly understoodfundamentally, who our members
(22:31):
were and what they were buyingin terms of membership mix and
data. So next we built wepartnered with another company,
and we built an ODS ouroperational data store, and so
now we have all of our APIconnections coming in from our
primary vendors into one space.
And I always think of it likeThe Matrix, and it does things
that I can't even explain, andthen the output is through, you
(22:54):
know, demo, it's through ourdashboards. And so it gives us
and our franchise partners,insights, and the dashboards
are, we're refining them all thetime as the data continues to
flow, as we have more APIconnections, as we partner with
more people. And so I think thisis probably the biggest
evolution that I've experiencedover the last probably three
(23:15):
years, since I've been at burn,is identifying those partners
who truly are subject matterexperts in gathering the right
behavioral analytics of ourcustomers to help us decide,
what do I need to do? When do Ineed to do it? How do I need to
say it for the biggest return?
Right? Because I've been in theindustry for a long time, I
could guesstimate some thingsright? I could give you some
(23:39):
general markers of a behavior, aset of behaviors that might
indicate somebody's going toterminate their membership, but
it's all conjecture. And so nowwhat we've done is we're really
being very intentional about thepartners that we have to give us
the data that we need that canbe truly actionable, and then to
make it as efficient aspossible. So having an effective
CRM to be able to automate touchpoints is critically important,
(24:00):
but it will always come back towhat is the human element to
make sure that not only thetrainer that trains me is worth
coming back to every singletime, right? I don't care how
many automations you send me. Idon't care how many promos you
send me. I don't care how cheapit is if it's not resonating and
fulfilling the needs that I haveacross my fitness journey,
that's the value propositionthat's never going to actually
(24:23):
retain. So you have the data soimportant to make the decisions,
but then your actionable stepshave to really, truly resonate
with your customer and with yourmember in order to get them to
stay and so that's really,again, work in progress. And it
sounds like we have it alltogether, and we kind of do, but
I'm super excited by the end ofthis year, we've got some really
(24:44):
great projects in the worksright now, maybe we'll do this
again next year, and I can tellyou all the data.
Krissy Vann (24:51):
I love a little nugget that just hooks me in to
be like, we're gonna have tocircle back. And I've actually
made it a habit of settingreminders in my phone to follow
up, so I will send you. DownAmber, if you don't find me
first, and then we can revisitbecause it is so true. I mean,
the technology space right nowis beyond fascinating, because
us, even as humans on a globalscale, seeing how rapid it is
(25:12):
changing in our own daily lifeuse and then how applicable that
can be to run business moreefficiently, to see those blind
spots. But what I loved the mostthat you highlighted there was
exactly the the most basic partthat I think is such, the
fundamental part of boutique,and it is the instructor. And at
the end of the day, anyone thathas endeavored, because I'm much
(25:34):
like you, when you were like, Iget into like the rest of the
gym. The better for me.
Telephones on like, do I? Do Iget a tetanus shot after maybe,
but myself, and then I wouldsprinkle in different because I
would get a the community piece,but just having somebody push
you in a different way, all toyour point about needing the
(25:55):
Epsom salts at the end of theday, I might not be able to do
that to myself, but it reallycomes down to the individual
that's welcoming you in thedoor. And that's kind of who as
a consumer, you're investing inthe most when you have those
repeat visits. I mean, we seepeople that book classes
specifically for their specificinstructors. So I'm just glad
you highlighted the humanelement, because in the land of
AI Tech's gonna solve so much. Idon't know, maybe they'll be
(26:19):
robots, but, well,
Unknown (26:22):
it's like, you know, it's, it's no different than
what we use supplements for,right? Like whole food and
supplements, you can't live juston one or the other.
Unfortunately, you have to haveboth. And that's the way I look
at AI and tech in general, isthe whole food of what we do
from a community perspective.
For the we call them burnambassadors, they're our front
of house representation, butthey're standing at the door.
(26:43):
Part of our process is they areliterally standing in front of
the desk at the door, highfiving everybody as they come in
as that initial touch point,whether you want it or not, I'm
going to be smiling in yourface, welcoming you and giving
you a high five before you evenstep on the floor as you're even
walking into the lobby, and justthere's, there's power in that,
and then there's power in thereminder that I might get as a
(27:06):
text message if I haven't comein to camp for 10 days to go, I
need to go back in and see Leah.
You know what I mean. So it'slike there has to be this really
true, intentional combination ofwhole food and supplement, of
working through your businessprocesses and having your AI
work for you, it has to all cometogether. That
Krissy Vann (27:24):
is a fantastic analogy. As we start to slowly
wrap our conversation here,obviously we're heading into
HFA. Everyone's going to seeeach other, and then, before you
know it, it's already going tobe spring summer, and we're
going to be doing our wrap up2025 countdowns, because the
years go so quickly. So as youdo, I know, but as you do look
(27:46):
ahead, I'm curious about topchallenges and top opportunities
for the boutique fitnessindustry right now. What do you
see those as? Yeah,
Unknown (27:55):
I mean people. People are your hardest thing, to
scale, to replicate, tomaintain. They move they have
babies, they get married, they,you know, go do something
completely different. So I thinkpeople is always going to be one
of the number one factors,especially in small business and
franchising in general, becauseeach market, each community, you
(28:16):
know, they have their ownchallenges, just with people in
general. So people is alwaysgoing to be something that's an
opportunity, and that's achallenge, for sure. And then I
think, to your point about techand the man, it is lightning
fast, and it is lightning fastto be the next best thing, and
is lightning fast to fail andgo, oh shoot, we just spent a
bunch of money on something thatis irrelevant at this point. And
(28:37):
so I think for us also at burn,it's really under getting our
tech stack in place. It'sgetting our tech roadmap really
wrapped into something that fromour app to our burn on demand,
our digital community, our ingym community. It's really
integrating all of these thingstogether, like I said, with the
whole food and the supplements.
You know, how are we? How are wereally putting these things
together to where they theyseamlessly work. It reduces
(28:58):
friction for the customer or themember. It doesn't increase it,
you know, and that way we cansee that quantified in
profitability, higher higherretention rates, lower attrition
rates, better acquisition overtime, because the onboarding
process is more seamless andless complicated. So those are
the big things, I think, for usand even the industry in general
(29:20):
that we all gotta pay attentionto. Well,
Krissy Vann (29:24):
Amber, I kind of mentioned in the lead up there,
the HFA is around the corner,and I understand that you're
going to be speaking as well.
I'm going to have this up onquick turnaround so share with
people where they can come andsee you, and what's going to be
the focus for yourself thatyou're going to be driving home
and packing people away withthat info to take to their
businesses.
Unknown (29:43):
Yeah, so we will be presenting on March 12, at 130
we are in the I think it's likea boutique fitness track, or
it's a new track that HFA isdoing this year, and it's really
operationalizing the success ofburn boot camp. And so I'm
bringing Matt Morris. He's my VPof fitness. COVID. I'm bringing
Trisha Pena, she's my VP ofmarketing, and then I'm bringing
(30:04):
Melanie Skinner. She's afranchise partner, but she's
also the chair of our franchiseAdvisory Council, and so she's
going to represent who weservice. So I think it is going
to be a really cool discussion.
We're going to talk about ournon negotiables. There's three
non negotiables that run ourbusiness, and there's a fourth
that supports it, and so it'ssales, product, service and
data. And so if we don't havethose things working together,
(30:25):
it's going to be really hard toscale and see that
profitability.
Krissy Vann (30:28):
I will make sure as well, to put all that info in
the show notes. You know, westarted this conversation out
where this was the destinationfor you. You may not have
necessarily known it would beburn boot camp, but you knew
that you were going to be inthis industry, and this path has
taken you to great height sofar. And we talked about how
being so active in sport,growing up, you learn all these
(30:51):
really incredible leadershiplessons that then become
applicable to business whenyou're an adult. So now that you
have all this extra wealth ofexperience behind you. I'm
curious, what is your biggestleadership lesson that you can
impart on our audience? Mine,
Unknown (31:06):
personally, and I think it's something that probably a
lot of people struggle with, isthe idea of transparency and
vulnerability and leadership. Iam a very much just head down,
bullish, kind of stubborn. Youknow, nobody can't fail. Failure
is not an option, and sometimesthat resonates. And it can be
off putting. It can be a littlebossy. And so for me personally,
(31:29):
my journey has really been tounderstand that vulnerability
where I'm actually transferringthe weight that I'm carrying to
appear to help me do that isokay. It doesn't mean that I'm
weak. It doesn't mean that I'm,you know, incompetent. It just
means that I have awarenessenough to say I'm not going to
be able to do this on my own. Ineed your help, right? Like,
(31:50):
that's the vulnerability thatI'm still learning 100% work in
process, progress, and then thethe difference for just
transparency. So sometimes youmay not like what I'm saying,
but I'm going to communicate itto you, and I'm going to be
transparent with you aboutwhat's going on if you're my
team member, if you're a directreport, just so you have clarity
(32:11):
and understanding. Because thatclarity and understanding, while
you may not like it is is betterthan the narrative that you
could potentially be creating onyour own, or that your office
could be creating on their own.
So it's really those are the twohardest lessons that I think
that I've that I'm learning. Iwouldn't even say that I've
learned.
Krissy Vann (32:30):
I think those are the most beautiful lessons in
life. Are the ones where theyare always a work in progress,
because there's never really agoal or a destination. There's
refinements and tweaks. We'remuch like an Apple iPhone always
seem to have a little bug and anupdate necessary, but it's
having awareness, right?
Sometimes you gotta replace thescreen in water. It all happens,
but I think that awareness andrecognition is so key. Amber, I
(32:53):
am so glad we connected, and Itruly look forward to meeting in
person. This is what theindustry is all about sharing
learning, people willing toshare their growth experiences.
So thank you so much for sharingyour time with me, for having
me. It's been great. You've justlistened to the All Things
fitness and wellness podcasthosted by Krissy Vann. Be sure
to hit like and subscribe. Wehave new podcast episodes weekly
(33:14):
featuring industry insiders andinfluencers. Together, we're on
a mission for everyone to live alife fit and well the.
Having an effective CRM to be able to automate touch
(00:03):
points is critically important,but it will always come back to
what is the human element tomake sure that not only the
trainer that trains me is worthcoming back to every single
time, right? I don't care howmany automations you send me. I
don't care how many promos yousend me. I don't care how cheap
it is if it's not resonating andfulfilling the needs that I have
across my fitness journey,that's the value proposition
(00:25):
that's never going to actuallyretain.
Krissy Vann (00:29):
This is all things fitness and wellness, uniting
industry thought leaders and fitinfluencers on the mission to
inspire innovation and encouragepeople to live a life fit and
well. On today's episode, I'mjoined by Amber Burke, Chief
Operating Officer of burn bootcamp with over two decades in
the industry, starting as astrength and conditioning coach
before moving into fitnesscenter operations and franchise
(00:51):
leadership. Amber has seen theevolution of the fitness
business firsthand. She'smanaged everything from
education and sales to drivingoperational growth at a national
level. One element Amber reallyemphasizes in today's
conversation is that she knowsthat no amount of automation or
technology can replace realhuman connection. In this
(01:12):
episode, we get into the role ofautomation and fitness business
success and its limitations, whypersonal connection and
community are still the mostpowerful retention tools,
lessons from Amber's career inscaling operations and building
strong teams and what fitnessbusiness owners should be
focusing on in 2025 before weget to it, be sure to hit like
and subscribe. We have newpodcast episodes weekly
(01:35):
featuring industry thoughtleaders and influencers. I'm
your host, Krissy Vann, and thisis ATF W I don't think I've ever
been so excited to podcast,because not only do I have Amber
Burke here from burn boot camp,but for those that are tuning in
via video, I think we complimenteach other quite well, and I
just gave Amber kudos for bestsetup. So the bar has been set.
(01:58):
Everybody that's right. I loveit. Thank you. I'm so pleased to
have you Amber, and it's one ofthe things that I really love
about the fitness industry. Itis so tight knit. People are so
willing to move and learn andgrow together. And you and I
essentially just connectedthrough the LinkedIn universe.
We were talking a
Unknown (02:15):
little bit before we started recording, and it's I've
only ever worked in fitness, andso I always joke that I've never
actually had a real job becauseI just wear spandex every day.
But to have seen the growth andthe maturity of fitness and now
wellness as an industry, asbrands, as an opportunity for
someone to have financialsuccess and legacy, you know, is
(02:36):
pretty incredible. And so it'sbeen very fun. I always say it's
like the Forrest Gump effect,where you're just like in the
right place at the right timefor the the duration of history
is I feel like that's kind ofhow my experience has been in
fitness.
Krissy Vann (02:47):
I can only imagine, because even for myself, I just
stepped into this space in 2022prior to that, my only
experience was as a consumer,and it's been so fascinating to
come in after, obviously thehuge uprooting of so many
individuals through thepandemic, this rebuilding phase,
and then really this refocus andunification of messaging that
(03:10):
seems to be taking place, andthis fresh definition of what's
happening in these spaces thatit is mental wellness, it is
social wellness, it is physicalwellness. And to your point,
when you started out, it reallywas just about physique. And you
have been in this industry awhile, so I'm curious, because I
looked at your education, itseems like you were just
bullseye. This is where you weregoing. Where was that seed
(03:31):
planted?
Unknown (03:31):
Yeah, very early on. So my dad was a PGA golf pro. He
ran a club. He wasn't on tour,but he ran a club, and he was a
PGA pro, and my I was a dancer.
At first, dancing in gymnastics.
I started when I was five. I hada lot of energy, and so my
parents were like, what do we dowith this kid? And I was the
third kid. I had two olderbrothers. They were tired, so
(03:54):
they were like, throw her intoeverything, which I just
assimilated to. And so I diddance and gymnastics for a very,
very long time. Started playingsoccer when I was in sixth
grade, did all three for about ayear and a half, and then I was
like, Okay, I can't do all the Ican't be in three places at one
time. So I just chose soccer.
Loved it. Took that throughcollege. In high school, I ran,
I dove, I swim, I did track andfield, I played soccer in
(04:18):
softball, and then soccerthrough college. And so I was
joked that I went to college toplay soccer and happened to
graduate. So, you know, withinthat, it was just, I've just
always been very aligned to justnot, I wouldn't say fitness,
because I didn't know that'sreally what I was doing, but
just movement and sport andcompetition. And so once I
understood, like, what thatmight look like, it's a job.
(04:39):
Then my undergraduate degree isexercise science, and then my
master's degree was sportsmanagement. And so I do feel
very blessed and lucky that I'vebeen able to sustain the same
career path for my entirecareer, because I'm I don't feel
like I go to work every day likethe fact that they pay. Me to do
this, I think is prettyincredible.
Krissy Vann (05:02):
That's the absolute goal in life, when you align the
passion. And the thing thatdoesn't surprise me is you
ending up in a leadershipposition, because not only
obviously, this is somethingthat you were passionate about
and resonated with, but I dofeel like what's instilled in
you, if you are somebody that isdoing athleticism at those
levels. Growing up, you learn alot of leadership skills along
(05:25):
the way. So I'm curious for burnBoot Camp, where did your
relationship start with them?
Because obviously you also haveseen your career path grow
through the organization.
Unknown (05:35):
Yeah, I started as a member, so I love that. Yeah,
for three years and I was amember, and then I just thought
this has literally changed mylife, personally. I think it can
change my life professionally.
And I had worked in an HP, hblpgym for 11 years. I was very
happy. I mean, I was at the topof, kind of probably where I was
(05:55):
going to peek out, verysuccessful. Loved it, but there
was just something that kind ofjust was missing a little bit.
And I recognized that I wasgetting that as a member at burn
boot camp. And I also recognizedjust having that hat on every
time I walked into the gym. Iwas like, they are so successful
and but I'm still operationallygoing that could be better, that
(06:16):
could be better, that could bebetter, that could be better.
And so I applied for a job thatI didn't want. They offered it
to me. I turned it down, butthen I already had kind of
prepared, like a three stepprocess of of something that I
had kind of noticed from a salesculture perspective, that I felt
like I could really impact, thatI could turn into some ROI. And
so they took a bet on me, andand six years later, or three
(06:38):
years later, now as a teammember. So I've been with burn
for six years total, but that'sthat's the entry story, and to
being with burn. So
Krissy Vann (06:48):
it's interesting. I just had a conversation very
adjacent to this, with KathleenFerguson, of course, 360 where
she was really emphasizing,obviously, the labor shortages
that we're seeing these days andtruly understanding the
importance of cultivating who'sin your doors, and sometimes
even your clients, are the bestchampions and potentially the
(07:09):
best staff that you can have,especially boutique, it's such a
focus on close knit, oncommunity. Truthfully, what I
feel like a lot of HV LPS ordifferent models are trying to
emulate now is that essencethat's found in boutique walls.
I don't want you to give awayyour secret sauce, but do you
recall what those elements werethat you noticed about their
(07:29):
business model, that you thoughtthat they could do differently?
Yeah,
Unknown (07:32):
absolutely. And it's no secret, and we laugh about it,
but no one actually asked me tojoin. So for 18 months, because
I was doing, I was turning 40. Iknow I don't look like it, but I
was turning 40, it's great forourselves. I was doing a
bodybuilding show, because whodoesn't want to get on stage
when they're 40 in a bikini and,you know, do things. It was like
(07:55):
a bucket list thing. And so Iwas kind of, I just done it, and
I was deciding, did I want to doit again? And all the girls in
my neighborhood were like, Youhave to come to burn boot camp.
I was like, I don't know. I'mkind of a gym rat, like, I just
like to go to a dirty gym andpick stuff up and put it down.
And they were like, No, you'regonna love it. And of course, I
loved it, and so. But what wasreally funny is, like, no one
(08:17):
ever asked me to join, but itwas the most beautiful community
that I had really been a part ofit was what I didn't know I
needed or wanted. And so I justkept we had free Saturdays. So I
kept coming to free Saturdays,because, by the way, I work in a
gym, like, I could work out freeif I wanted to. So I kept coming
to free Saturdays. And then Ibought a voucher, and then I
bought a Groupon, and then Ibought, like, I just kept buying
(08:38):
all these different things. Noone ever asked me if I actually
wanted to be a member. And sowhen I interviewed, I gave that
I did a PowerPoint, I gave thatpresentation, and I was like,
here's, here's some things thatI think, if you're not even
asking people to join, and youhave this amount of success,
let's just start asking, andthen let's start talking
referrals, and then let's starttalking retention. And so you
(09:00):
know that element, and then, youknow, we have nutrition, we have
active wear, we have bird ondemand. There's other revenue
streams that just that conceptkind of goes into and then just
intentionally running thebusiness we you mentioned
passion. We are very much insideout. We have most of our
franchise partners were membersthat went this changed my life
(09:21):
personally. How can it change mylife professionally, too, and
from a financial legacyperspective? So when we have
that, it's really easy for us tokind of turn that in. It was
easy for me to go, it's so hardto teach passion. I can't teach
passion, but I can teachprocess. I can get you the right
tech platforms. I can make surethat you understand operations.
(09:41):
So you know, being able to justkind of push all of that
together has been really, that'sreally been the secret sauce, I
guess. But it's not secret. Wedidn't reinvent the wheel. We
just kept pushing it forwardwell.
Krissy Vann (09:52):
And sometimes you need a friendly face that is
going to tell you what yourblind spots are, and it sounds
like that's exactly what youdid. And then you. Like this is
how I can help you grow and growit has 375 gyms across, 41
states, 44 There you go. Not asmall feat, but the thing that
you mentioned in there was thefact that a lot of the franchise
(10:14):
operators were members. And sowe know that boutique fitness,
the real special element is thecommunity that is fostered in
those walls. So when you'regrowing and on this path of
expansion, how in the boutiqueworld do you make sure that that
remains at the core when you aregoing through this expansion,
how is it not lost sight ofYeah,
Unknown (10:36):
I mean, it has to be a system and a process. You know,
you can't scale tribalknowledge, right? And I think
that when we think about, how doyou systemize passion, how do
you systemize community, itcomes down to process and
accountability, and, you know,just validating what you expect,
but doing it in a way where it'sit's very rewarding, and you
(10:59):
almost have that instantgratification. So when you have
a trial member come in and youexecute, we call it the blue
carpet experience, becauseeverything is blue at burn but
when we execute the blue carpetexperience in the right way, and
each and every one of thosesteps is intentionally designed
to be a touch point that makesthis person feel special. But
it's not a touch point that isjust made up. It's not busy
(11:23):
work. It's not it's veryintentional on understanding why
they're there, how they musteredup the courage to walk through
the door, what they want to getout of it, and then ultimately,
are we providing that to them?
You know, in a way, whether it'ssubjective or objective and
qualitative or quantitative, arethey seeing that and able to
really make a decision at theend of their first camp to go.
This is the answer to what I waslooking for. And so if you can,
(11:45):
it's really, you got to create asystem and a process that your
people can execute, and then youmeasure but when it's done
intentionally and with a truesense of desire to change
someone's life. And we hear thatall the time in fitness, I think
community has become thisbuzzword. And, you know,
sometimes I'm like, just usingthat too much, like, show me
what that really means for yourbrand. I think each of us really
(12:07):
do feel like we have acommunity, but I will argue that
ours is pretty strong well,
Krissy Vann (12:15):
and there's to your point, there's processes put
behind that, but I think it canbe difficult for those that are
doing the franchise model tokeep that consistency in the
brand while also balancing theentrepreneurial spirit of those
that are heading up thefranchise. So how do you kind of
balance that to ensure thosecore values do remain and so to
(12:36):
your point, the blue carpetremains blue, and you don't, all
of a sudden have someone that'slike, well, maybe, like, a
little splash of red over here,keep that in
Unknown (12:44):
check. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, it's, you
know, profit and culture.
There's, there's a book you canread about it, but it's like,
that's really where you have tofind what is profit and culture?
What is the balance of profitand culture mean to you? What
does it mean to your brand? Iwould say, you know, as a as a
boutique fitness brand versusother franchise concepts or
quick service restaurants likeprofit and culture balance is
(13:06):
very different for that type offranchise versus our type of
franchise, where we have tounderstand that the balance of
profit and culture has to has toauthentically transmit through
our team members, and it alsohas to authentically translate
to our members, because at theend of the day, we're all small
businesses in a franchise,right? And so every single small
business entity is there fortheir own financial legacy I
(13:28):
like to call generational wealthand health, not only for them as
individuals and business owners,but for their communities,
because most of them are very,very owner operator, tied to
their community. And so there isthis inherent desire for their
to deliver a product or aservice that truly represents
them as people, but then alsogives that person the
(13:51):
opportunity to have some sort ofreward or result from from
experiencing your product orservice. And so it almost
doesn't always have to come fromus to hold people accountable to
the franchise brand. You know,they really do align with it and
want to do it themselves. And ofcourse, we have rogue people
that that have this idea.
(14:12):
They're like, this is the bestidea ever, right? And sometimes
that turns into an alpha test ora beta test, and we either prove
it right or we prove it wrong,and if it's right, then we scale
it. And if we don't, then wesunset it, and we say, maybe
we'll revisit this. And sothrough our franchise Advisory
Council and other committees, wedo bring people in, because I
think there's a collaborationwhere if I feel like I'm part of
the conversation, and I get tobe heard and I get to be part of
(14:33):
it, it doesn't always feel likewe're just dictating to you as a
brand. And so you know,balancing that, and at the end
of the day, they're for profitbusinesses, and you can't be
afraid to make a profit, becausethat's what you bought into. And
you want to make sure that yourteam members understand that
profitability is very important,because that's what gives me the
ability as a franchise partnerto give you a raise, to have a
(14:55):
career path for you, to goinvest in another location. And
if I can do that, then thatalso. Helps to Kathleen's point
about, you know, the revolvingdoor in fitness, for sure,
there's there's a longevityfactor that comes in. And if
you're a trainer and listen, Itrained for a really long time,
it's hard. It's hot on yourbody, it's hard on your voice,
it's hard on your mind. And atsome point you want to graduate
(15:18):
out of that and say, What is mycareer path look like. And so
for our franchise partners, wewant to be able to have that
that element too. And so thecloser they are to the brand and
executing the processes, thecloser they are to seeing that
kind of legacy and future buildout
Krissy Vann (15:32):
without question.
And I love that you highlightthat collaborative approach of
you know, perhaps this idea allof a sudden becomes a beta test.
Because, to your point, a lot ofpeople simply want to be heard,
but your own experience was youflagging a blind spot that they
hadn't noticed, and then theyrealized there was a better way.
And to that exact effect, theindividuals that are on the
ground with their locations anddifferent demographics coming in
(15:53):
the door, I'm sure they flagthings where you're like, Huh?
We hadn't quite looked at itthrough that lens, and it can be
so effective. I'm curious onthat note, you obviously have
such a community that is in yourecosystem in real time in 2025
which means, you know, thetemperature check of the
boutique fitness industry atthis point. So I'm curious, how
(16:13):
are things looking in boutiquefitness right now, in your point
of view, I understand obviouslyburn boot camp has been on this
path of growth, which isfantastic to see. But what's the
climate?
Unknown (16:26):
Yeah, I think the climate for for us is burn is is
moving pretty well. We actuallyjust got some some financials
back in comparing 23 to 24 andwe're seeing our median and
averages move up by percent. Andthat, as that denominator
changes, we're still seeinggrowth, and so I think it is
indicative of the boutiquefitness industry for people and
(16:47):
brands that really have afundamental understanding of who
they are and what they do. Ithink where brands and the
industry in general gets alittle squirrelly is when we
start to try to be everything toeveryone and listen. We've been
we've done that in certaininstances, but I think if you
can come back to the fundamentalnon negotiable parts of who you
(17:08):
are as a brand, then you knowwho your audience is, and if you
need to expand your audience,one of the things I learned
recently at an athletic summitback in January was they talked
about the unexpected customer,And it resonated with me,
because I think not only for ourfranchise development before,
for our franchise partners, ifwe kind of get stuck in who our
audience is, it's limiting forus to be able to grow as a
(17:31):
brand, and the results of beingin boutique fitness and so, you
know, boot camp in general canbe very off putting to some
people. It just sounds hard.
Krissy Vann (17:41):
People don't like hard. For some people, if
they've never dabbled, right,they're like, yeah, and
Unknown (17:46):
bring it on. But for a lot of people, they're like, No,
thank you. So how do we overcomethat, and how do we speak to
those audiences, and how do wedo it a little bit differently?
And where are we speaking tothem? Are we in the right
platforms? And, you know, are weusing the right data from a pre
positioned marketing perspectiveto make sure that I can quell
some of those initial anxietiesaround joining a boot camp for
(18:08):
someone who who truly does needit. And so, you know, I think
for the for the industry ingeneral, you're seeing a lot of
those conversations aboutcommunity, about authenticity,
you know, strength in general isprobably one of the biggest
things that we do really wellfor women, we started as a
women's only brand, and thenpost COVID, we went to women and
families, but, you know, we'renow investing in 110s 120s 130s
(18:33):
140s and 150 pound dumbbells,because we've got women in our
gyms that need those. And Ithink that's probably one of the
best markers of our commitmentto developing and designing
fitness protocol for women iswhen our gyms are going our
women need the 150s and like Igot you, we'll be there for you.
So it's pretty interesting. Can
Krissy Vann (18:53):
you elaborate a little bit about how you've
pivoted marketing strategies,especially going from targeting
women only and then expanding tofamilies like what have been the
most effective forms of outreachfor you, especially, I love that
you highlight that because wetalk about gym timidation all
the time. Every singleconference is about the other
80% and you kind of have thisadded extra hoop because you
(19:14):
have to do a little bit ofeducation before they even walk
in the door that they're goingto be able to walk the next day.
I mean, maybe,
Unknown (19:22):
maybe it depends on if it depends on what camp was.
That day was leg and plyo. Youwere not walking the next day.
The stairs might be challenging.
This little bag of Epsom salt.
Krissy Vann (19:34):
Are you really, yeah. Oh, that is brilliant
marketing. Yes, I love that. You
Unknown (19:40):
know, it's funny. You asked. I don't know that. I
would say that we've pivoted. Iwould say that we've leaned in.
I think when, when we look atour differentiators, so we have
free childcare in all of ourgyms, which has always been a
thing, and it's always been oneof the biggest differentiators,
some of our competitors are nowadding that and exploring that
as a as a service. But you know,for us, it's always. Been the
(20:00):
foundation, because our initialmarketing was fit community of
moms. And as we know, moms drivemost of the purchasing behaviors
anyway, across any industry. Andso it's really just continuing
to lean into that and thenfocusing on their ability to
scale us. Because if they arethe decision maker and they have
(20:20):
the knowledge and the experienceto go. This is my place. You
need to come with me. Husband,you need to come with me.
Friend, you need to come withme. So I would say, leaning into
who we are, fundamentally makingsure that our differentiators
and our amenities arerepresented in our marketing
materials, and that the eventsthat we produce, whether it's a
national event or a hyper localevent continues to reflect those
(20:43):
items of things. I mean, listen,people join gyms for results, so
you always have to constantlycome back and say, Hey, we
understand that you're coming toburn boot camp because you have
a certain amount of results, butthey always, always stay for the
experience in the community. Andso I'm not trying to teach and
give you insight on my Instagramabout all of the amazing
(21:06):
community and things I gotta, Igotta capture the attention that
you have for the four secondsbefore you scroll. I gotta, I
gotta harness that enough tohave you come in then we can, we
can do all the blue carpet, youknow, experience and community
stuff kind of on the back end.
So I think it's again, kind ofjust coming back to knowing who
you are, what you do, who youraudience is, and then who your
audience isn't, and how muchpenetration do we want to get
(21:28):
into that audience, and how dowe speak to them? It's in that
four seconds to get them to fillout a form, or, you know, to
sign up for a trial so
Krissy Vann (21:38):
well. And then to your point, once you have them,
that retention piece becomes soimportant. And I really
appreciate that your own journeyand your own story was kind of
like, hey, no one's even askedme to join, which is hilarious.
They're lucky that you just kepton coming because of the
product. But when it comes tothat retention piece, huge
conversation almost everywherewe go these days is about
leveraging technology. And I'mjust curious for burn boot camp.
(22:00):
Are there any things that you'veimplemented on the tech side to
kind of harness that retentionpiece, or reiterate to your
members different offerings thatyou have on top?
Unknown (22:10):
Yeah, I mean, it's a work in progress. Look, Tech is
a journey that's never ending.
It's, for sure, a marathon. Butyou know, one of the things that
we did a couple years ago is westarted cleaning up our data,
because trash in is trash out,and you can't make effective
decisions if you don't reallyknow what's going on. So we did
a really big cleanup with ourPOS system to make sure that we
really, truly understoodfundamentally, who our members
(22:31):
were and what they were buyingin terms of membership mix and
data. So next we built wepartnered with another company,
and we built an ODS ouroperational data store, and so
now we have all of our APIconnections coming in from our
primary vendors into one space.
And I always think of it likeThe Matrix, and it does things
that I can't even explain, andthen the output is through, you
(22:54):
know, demo, it's through ourdashboards. And so it gives us
and our franchise partners,insights, and the dashboards
are, we're refining them all thetime as the data continues to
flow, as we have more APIconnections, as we partner with
more people. And so I think thisis probably the biggest
evolution that I've experiencedover the last probably three
(23:15):
years, since I've been at burn,is identifying those partners
who truly are subject matterexperts in gathering the right
behavioral analytics of ourcustomers to help us decide,
what do I need to do? When do Ineed to do it? How do I need to
say it for the biggest return?
Right? Because I've been in theindustry for a long time, I
could guesstimate some thingsright? I could give you some
(23:39):
general markers of a behavior, aset of behaviors that might
indicate somebody's going toterminate their membership, but
it's all conjecture. And so nowwhat we've done is we're really
being very intentional about thepartners that we have to give us
the data that we need that canbe truly actionable, and then to
make it as efficient aspossible. So having an effective
CRM to be able to automate touchpoints is critically important,
(24:00):
but it will always come back towhat is the human element to
make sure that not only thetrainer that trains me is worth
coming back to every singletime, right? I don't care how
many automations you send me. Idon't care how many promos you
send me. I don't care how cheapit is if it's not resonating and
fulfilling the needs that I haveacross my fitness journey,
that's the value propositionthat's never going to actually
(24:23):
retain. So you have the data soimportant to make the decisions,
but then your actionable stepshave to really, truly resonate
with your customer and with yourmember in order to get them to
stay and so that's really,again, work in progress. And it
sounds like we have it alltogether, and we kind of do, but
I'm super excited by the end ofthis year, we've got some really
(24:44):
great projects in the worksright now, maybe we'll do this
again next year, and I can tellyou all the data.
Krissy Vann (24:51):
I love a little nugget that just hooks me in to
be like, we're gonna have tocircle back. And I've actually
made it a habit of settingreminders in my phone to follow
up, so I will send you. DownAmber, if you don't find me
first, and then we can revisitbecause it is so true. I mean,
the technology space right nowis beyond fascinating, because
us, even as humans on a globalscale, seeing how rapid it is
(25:12):
changing in our own daily lifeuse and then how applicable that
can be to run business moreefficiently, to see those blind
spots. But what I loved the mostthat you highlighted there was
exactly the the most basic partthat I think is such, the
fundamental part of boutique,and it is the instructor. And at
the end of the day, anyone thathas endeavored, because I'm much
(25:34):
like you, when you were like, Iget into like the rest of the
gym. The better for me.
Telephones on like, do I? Do Iget a tetanus shot after maybe,
but myself, and then I wouldsprinkle in different because I
would get a the community piece,but just having somebody push
you in a different way, all toyour point about needing the
(25:55):
Epsom salts at the end of theday, I might not be able to do
that to myself, but it reallycomes down to the individual
that's welcoming you in thedoor. And that's kind of who as
a consumer, you're investing inthe most when you have those
repeat visits. I mean, we seepeople that book classes
specifically for their specificinstructors. So I'm just glad
you highlighted the humanelement, because in the land of
AI Tech's gonna solve so much. Idon't know, maybe they'll be
(26:19):
robots, but, well,
Unknown (26:22):
it's like, you know, it's, it's no different than
what we use supplements for,right? Like whole food and
supplements, you can't live juston one or the other.
Unfortunately, you have to haveboth. And that's the way I look
at AI and tech in general, isthe whole food of what we do
from a community perspective.
For the we call them burnambassadors, they're our front
of house representation, butthey're standing at the door.
(26:43):
Part of our process is they areliterally standing in front of
the desk at the door, highfiving everybody as they come in
as that initial touch point,whether you want it or not, I'm
going to be smiling in yourface, welcoming you and giving
you a high five before you evenstep on the floor as you're even
walking into the lobby, and justthere's, there's power in that,
and then there's power in thereminder that I might get as a
(27:06):
text message if I haven't comein to camp for 10 days to go, I
need to go back in and see Leah.
You know what I mean. So it'slike there has to be this really
true, intentional combination ofwhole food and supplement, of
working through your businessprocesses and having your AI
work for you, it has to all cometogether. That
Krissy Vann (27:24):
is a fantastic analogy. As we start to slowly
wrap our conversation here,obviously we're heading into
HFA. Everyone's going to seeeach other, and then, before you
know it, it's already going tobe spring summer, and we're
going to be doing our wrap up2025 countdowns, because the
years go so quickly. So as youdo, I know, but as you do look
(27:46):
ahead, I'm curious about topchallenges and top opportunities
for the boutique fitnessindustry right now. What do you
see those as? Yeah,
Unknown (27:55):
I mean people. People are your hardest thing, to
scale, to replicate, tomaintain. They move they have
babies, they get married, they,you know, go do something
completely different. So I thinkpeople is always going to be one
of the number one factors,especially in small business and
franchising in general, becauseeach market, each community, you
(28:16):
know, they have their ownchallenges, just with people in
general. So people is alwaysgoing to be something that's an
opportunity, and that's achallenge, for sure. And then I
think, to your point about techand the man, it is lightning
fast, and it is lightning fastto be the next best thing, and
is lightning fast to fail andgo, oh shoot, we just spent a
bunch of money on something thatis irrelevant at this point. And
(28:37):
so I think for us also at burn,it's really under getting our
tech stack in place. It'sgetting our tech roadmap really
wrapped into something that fromour app to our burn on demand,
our digital community, our ingym community. It's really
integrating all of these thingstogether, like I said, with the
whole food and the supplements.
You know, how are we? How are wereally putting these things
together to where they theyseamlessly work. It reduces
(28:58):
friction for the customer or themember. It doesn't increase it,
you know, and that way we cansee that quantified in
profitability, higher higherretention rates, lower attrition
rates, better acquisition overtime, because the onboarding
process is more seamless andless complicated. So those are
the big things, I think, for usand even the industry in general
(29:20):
that we all gotta pay attentionto. Well,
Krissy Vann (29:24):
Amber, I kind of mentioned in the lead up there,
the HFA is around the corner,and I understand that you're
going to be speaking as well.
I'm going to have this up onquick turnaround so share with
people where they can come andsee you, and what's going to be
the focus for yourself thatyou're going to be driving home
and packing people away withthat info to take to their
businesses.
Unknown (29:43):
Yeah, so we will be presenting on March 12, at 130
we are in the I think it's likea boutique fitness track, or
it's a new track that HFA isdoing this year, and it's really
operationalizing the success ofburn boot camp. And so I'm
bringing Matt Morris. He's my VPof fitness. COVID. I'm bringing
Trisha Pena, she's my VP ofmarketing, and then I'm bringing
(30:04):
Melanie Skinner. She's afranchise partner, but she's
also the chair of our franchiseAdvisory Council, and so she's
going to represent who weservice. So I think it is going
to be a really cool discussion.
We're going to talk about ournon negotiables. There's three
non negotiables that run ourbusiness, and there's a fourth
that supports it, and so it'ssales, product, service and
data. And so if we don't havethose things working together,
(30:25):
it's going to be really hard toscale and see that
profitability.
Krissy Vann (30:28):
I will make sure as well, to put all that info in
the show notes. You know, westarted this conversation out
where this was the destinationfor you. You may not have
necessarily known it would beburn boot camp, but you knew
that you were going to be inthis industry, and this path has
taken you to great height sofar. And we talked about how
being so active in sport,growing up, you learn all these
(30:51):
really incredible leadershiplessons that then become
applicable to business whenyou're an adult. So now that you
have all this extra wealth ofexperience behind you. I'm
curious, what is your biggestleadership lesson that you can
impart on our audience? Mine,
Unknown (31:06):
personally, and I think it's something that probably a
lot of people struggle with, isthe idea of transparency and
vulnerability and leadership. Iam a very much just head down,
bullish, kind of stubborn. Youknow, nobody can't fail. Failure
is not an option, and sometimesthat resonates. And it can be
off putting. It can be a littlebossy. And so for me personally,
(31:29):
my journey has really been tounderstand that vulnerability
where I'm actually transferringthe weight that I'm carrying to
appear to help me do that isokay. It doesn't mean that I'm
weak. It doesn't mean that I'm,you know, incompetent. It just
means that I have awarenessenough to say I'm not going to
be able to do this on my own. Ineed your help, right? Like,
(31:50):
that's the vulnerability thatI'm still learning 100% work in
process, progress, and then thethe difference for just
transparency. So sometimes youmay not like what I'm saying,
but I'm going to communicate itto you, and I'm going to be
transparent with you aboutwhat's going on if you're my
team member, if you're a directreport, just so you have clarity
(32:11):
and understanding. Because thatclarity and understanding, while
you may not like it is is betterthan the narrative that you
could potentially be creating onyour own, or that your office
could be creating on their own.
So it's really those are the twohardest lessons that I think
that I've that I'm learning. Iwouldn't even say that I've
learned.
Krissy Vann (32:30):
I think those are the most beautiful lessons in
life. Are the ones where theyare always a work in progress,
because there's never really agoal or a destination. There's
refinements and tweaks. We'remuch like an Apple iPhone always
seem to have a little bug and anupdate necessary, but it's
having awareness, right?
Sometimes you gotta replace thescreen in water. It all happens,
but I think that awareness andrecognition is so key. Amber, I
(32:53):
am so glad we connected, and Itruly look forward to meeting in
person. This is what theindustry is all about sharing
learning, people willing toshare their growth experiences.
So thank you so much for sharingyour time with me, for having
me. It's been great. You've justlistened to the All Things
fitness and wellness podcasthosted by Krissy Vann. Be sure
to hit like and subscribe. Wehave new podcast episodes weekly
(33:14):
featuring industry insiders andinfluencers. Together, we're on
a mission for everyone to live alife fit and well the.
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