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November 4, 2023 • 63 mins

How often do childhood influences shape the trajectory of our lives? For our guest, Weggy, those early years steeped in a culture where alcohol consumption was normalized, became the precursor to his lifelong struggle with alcoholism. We walk with him down memory lane, from his high school days working at a bar under his father's influence, through to his reckless party lifestyle that eventually led him to confront the harsh realities of his dependence on alcohol.

As we delve deeper into Weggy's narrative, he shares his experiences bartending, his personal relationships affected by his addiction, and the financial setbacks he endured. The turning point arrives when Weggy discusses his path towards self-destruction that lead to liver failure and the terrifying confrontation with mortality. His resilience shines through when he narrates his strenuous journey from hitting rock bottom to his transformative moment of change.

In the final leg of Weggy's poignant story, we explore his life post a life-saving liver transplant. Discover how this second chance at life, marked by his donor's love for music, reignites Weggy's passion for the same and gifts him a renewed sense of purpose and respect for life. His heartrending journey from the clutches of alcoholism to the path of recovery and redemption will leave you inspired. Tune in to witness a powerful tale of a brave man who lived to tell his story of surviving

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine
ten.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Now count from a hundred back to one.
Hello and thanks again forlistening to another episode of
All Better.
I'm your host, joe Van Lee.
Today's guest is another friendnamed Carl Wegforth, or known

(00:30):
regionally as Weggy.
Carl stops by today to discusshow he came to terms with his
alcoholism and how he came tounderstand the disorder had an
effect on him when he wasn'tdrinking, how this was brought
to light and forced to be dealtwith.

(00:52):
Was Carl found out he hadcirrhosis in a serious way?
We discussed how one prepares afamily children to come to
terms and understand that hemight die before there's hope of

(01:13):
a liver transplant.
We talked about that exhaustingexperience in a year where
someone measures their ownmortality and how it reinforced
his commitment to sobriety in anew way of life, which became

(01:34):
quite moving while we werediscussing it.
So I look forward to meetingWeggy.
All right, we're live withWeggy.
Carl is a friend of mine I met.
I had to be 12 years old and Igot a gig to Busboy a couple

(01:58):
weekends here and there, wheremy sister was a waitress at
Carmelas on Bunker Hill,pennsylvania in Dunmore, and
Carl, I thought, was my boss andCarl worked there as well.
And do you have any memories ofthis?

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, I do, Joe.
I remember working and I thinkI was your boss.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
You were, but I tell you I was much to chops.
I thought you were already like, had a wife and kids.
You were like two years olderto be.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, at that age I actually was a little older than
I I thought I was older than Iwas myself.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
You had appeared.
No, I didn't Not yet, but thatwas a great place.
My brother worked there for aperiod of time and wonderful
people.
So, carl, thanks for coming on,and I thought maybe we could
talk a little bit about yourstory into recovery.

(02:58):
But for a little background,tell me about growing up in
Dunmore.
How would you describe yourchildhood?

Speaker 1 (03:07):
I had a real good childhood.
I didn't come from a verywealthy family or anything, but
we didn't want for anything.
My parents got divorced when Iwas five years old.
My father remarried shortlythereafter, which I was blessed

(03:27):
with two great sisters then, andthen it was a great home life.
Growing up.
Nothing was out of the ordinary, it was just a normal life.
There was no problems at home,nothing like that.
I do remember from an early age, though, like birthday parties

(03:49):
was always a party, not just abirthday party for the kids.
There was always a party goingon at my house.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
There's a second party happening For sure.
And what did that look like toyou?
If you had to remember from theeyes of the child that age like
without an adult lens, what didit look like to you?

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Well, I know the adults had just as much fun at
our party.
I think it was a great at ourparties as the kids did.
There was usually quite a bitof drinking going on.
Everybody seemed to have fun.
It never was a problem in mychildhood that I saw.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Let me ask you this Was it easier, because of those
parties, to connect with theadults in a way that seemed more
meaningful than when theyweren't drinking?

Speaker 1 (04:39):
I think we were.
I was probably always treated alittle at that time, not so
much as the kid, as a kid.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
So there's benefits to watching adults drink alcohol
.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Right and for sure it seemed like a blast.
Yeah, I don't remember everarguing or any problems like
that.
Everything always seemed fun.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
And was there any fear involved?
Would things ever change duringthose parties?
Like that you were, likethere's a dark side to this.
No, never.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
It was always, you know, rock and roll playing and
everybody had a good time.
I never saw any problem.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Let's fast forward to high school, in the sense of
when drinking became somethingthat you knew you could rely on.
How did that happen, and whatdid drinking mean for you
Emotionally, maybe, in regardsto giving you something that
maybe you couldn't give toyourself.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Well, I always, and even go back to the Carmellas
days.
You know, I was pretty young.
After a night of working andthe older guys that were there,
you know, I might have had a, acocktail after work at a very
young age because, you know,just like those guys, I worked
hard and I deserved one.

(05:59):
And you know, your brother wasbehind the bar and all of their
friends were out at that bar andit was that's really where I
want it to be.
It was.
You know, I was 12, 13, 14years old and all these 20 year
olds are at the bar on a Friday,saturday night and it seemed

(06:19):
like an awful lot of fun to me.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
That whole crew, too, was pretty dynamic.
They looked like movie stars tome when I was a kid, when you
know my brother, eugene Mo, allthese guys I don't know there
was.
They looked like they, theywere having fun.
They didn't have a care in theworld and they were.
They were like for sure.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
They good fellas movie just came out and they
used to call me the kid Henry,and I wanted to be a gangster.
I thought that was that was.
That was going to be great.
Obviously it didn't come tofruition, but which is a good
thing.
And then, of course, like therest of our friends in Dunmore,

(07:06):
underage, drinking down thecemetery, up the woods, football
games, and I usually had a lotto do with throwing the parties,
and so I was always pop.
I was a popular kid and Ididn't.
I don't know if throwing theparties helped that, but but I

(07:26):
usually got along with everybodyand it was always a fun
atmosphere.
Then my at the time my fatherwas kind of like a manager at
Highles and I started bouncingthere Still in high school,
working at the door, wow.
And then I really saw that thisis what, this is where I want

(07:48):
to be and that's where theaction is.
So I was always around it,always around the party.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
And the really, from that perspective, what you're
describing to me now there seemsto be no other way to look at
things except through.
I don't want to generalizetonight life, but that the
center of all activity could bein a bar and a restaurant.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
It was for sure that that was, that was my main focus
.
Yeah, and I didn't see a lot ofproblems or consequences.
And when I say that it's, it'sum, um, there was plenty of
times that the police hadintervene.
I would say, but, um, we, youknow, we knew who the magistrate

(08:39):
was, obviously, and there'd bea good chance we'd be understood
, understood.
So there wasn't a lot ofconsequences.
Yeah, Even at that time frame,I got in a bad quad accident
don't worry corners, Um, um in acoma for a little while.

(09:05):
I remember drilling my head andand I got up, you know, out of
the hospital in a couple of days, anthony Cully was there to
welcome me with a DUI.
I was right back at it yeah,short shortly.
And I didn't I made it out.
I mean, it took a terrible tollon my family.

(09:25):
I know the stress, but I didn't, I made it out.
You know, I walked out there ina couple of days and I don't
think it was long after thatthat I was right back at it.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Well, let me ask you this, carl was there a
connection between drinking andthe accident that?
Did you just not make aconnection, or you thought this
is just normal, it's just badluck?

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Um, I thought it was.
I come, I, I, I survived it, Icome out of it and it's like, oh
, you know, that was like astory.
Oh, he was doing 70 miles anhour in a quad.
Oh, my God, that's like it wasalmost cool, A trophy.
It was almost a trophy, Um, andany normal thinking person, I

(10:13):
think, would have said let'stake, let's slow down here.
And I didn't.
I didn't, um, slow down.
Like I said, I was back in it.
How old were you?
So I just turned, it was AprilI just turned 18.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
18.
I remember that that was scary.
So were there lingeringconsequences from that,
physically?

Speaker 1 (10:36):
That depends what you ask, I guess.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
You don't look different to me, man, no.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
I had a lot of my face, was messed up pretty good
with stitches and staples and Idon't have you but I'm not not,
not really.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
So it's 18.
So by 18, there's alcohol.
Compromise the situation, wouldyou say, that got you in a
almost a life-threateningaccident, in that sense.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
For sure, but um, with that, the DUI aspect of it,
DUI, you can't afford it, andall this, it's billboards and um
, the consequences because ofpeople that we were friends with
and so on and so forth, weren'tnecessarily what.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
A regular person may, and let's put that into context
.
This is a really smallcommunity.
It's done more, and some of thehelp that you would receive on
the back end of, say, a scenariolike that looks like the real
help someone wanted.
So your life's not wrong thatyou're not straddled with some
financial burden.

(11:40):
This was an accidental.
You've never I've been criminalor violent in that sense, so is
that kind of the perspectivesomeone you were viewing it as
this?
This is the help.
This is help Someone's helping.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, they're helping you, they're helping you, and
so the trouble wasn't that big.
I went through the ARD programand I passed that.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Good job.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Thank you.
So I moved on to my you know,you're up to 21 years old at
that age and I kept asking JohnIsle, I wanted to bark, then I
wanted to bark that was my youknow and eventually I got there.
I got to the point he gave me aSaturday afternoon and a

(12:24):
bachelorette party came in, Iremember, and I was scared to
death and they wanted frozendrinks and the bottom of the mix
, the blender, fell off.
It spilled all over the front ofme and that's all my first day
bartending went.
But I said, well, if thathappened today I could handle
any of this.
And before you know it I wasthere five nights a week.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
And that was a hop and bar in our area.
Yeah, and the big night wasMondays.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
On Monday night.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
On Monday nights you had to be at Hiles.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, 800 people becoming through the door.
And with that comes all theother bartenders, from Tanks to
Woodlands, the bouncers.
You know the grotto at Harvey'sLake, so you know every
bartender, every bouncer in thearea.
So when you weren't thereworking anywhere, you went.
You didn't pay to cover,Everybody knew you the drinks

(13:14):
were free and it was you know.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
It's a lifestyle.
The restaurants and bars are alifestyle, so you're getting out
of work.
At what time?

Speaker 1 (13:24):
We get, we?
Well, we'd close on the week attwo and we'd leave there four,
Four or five.
And yeah, John used to tell usthe alarm would go off at four
if we weren't gone.
So we'd be out of there by fourand then you would either go
home or you wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
And then what time you would sleep, till what time?

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Sleep till till noon or something, and at that point
I was actually running the lakeevery day.
I was always a little insecureabout my weight, yeah, so at
that point I was really workingon it, a lot working on it.
So I'd get up and go run thelake.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
And that's three miles.
You run it three miles in themorning after putting a shift in
like that.
That's pretty.
That's a lot of resiliency,that's pretty tough.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
And then I was back at Ohio at four.
At the time I had just startedgoing on Lake Walnut Park.
I met some friends up there, soFriday night after work I'd
head up there.
I'd be up at the lake, till youknow, right after work and I'd
stay there till Monday, tillMonday morning.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
At this point?
What would you say?
Your number one goal or dreamwas Like at that age.
You'd now bar 10 to five nightsa week in one of the areas most
popular bars.
What was your dream at thatpoint?
What would be the perfect lifefrom that point?

Speaker 1 (14:56):
I don't know that.
I had a plan to dream.
Then I did enroll in the PennState because the rest of the
bartenders were going to schooland I figured I better do
something.
So I enrolled for an MISprogram, which is funny, because
I hate computers.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, what's MIS?

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Management Information Systems at the time.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Oh boy, that sounds really awful.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
It was terrible.
I went through about a year anda half and it ran into somebody
saying that Nibs was lookingfor me.
They were looking for afull-time employee with the
number DPW and at the time theprice was right.
I quit Penn State and startedthat, which was a good job.

(15:40):
So now I was working forDunmore and bartender full-time.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
And at that age that's a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
It was a lot of money .

Speaker 2 (15:51):
And you're probably making four more than anyone you
went to school with, because ifthey were at school or at that
age, they're not making that.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
No, I was making $1,000 a week cash at Isles and
then working for the borough.
I did end up with a second DUI.
Leaving a bachelor party, Somefriends took my keys and they
had wandered off and I grabbedthem out of her purse and I

(16:18):
figured I could make it home.
And I got my second one Littlemore consequences, but not a lot
more at all Because, like yousaid, they were helping me out
At the time.
I ended up with 30 days housearrest, but they let me still.
I was enrolled in Penn State.
They let me work at Isles still.

(16:40):
So I had to be home Sunday forabout eight hours.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Did you go to treatment?
Would you, were you required togo to an alcohol treatment
center?

Speaker 1 (16:50):
I did my, my dad's again.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Dad, just dad's, just dad's.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Okay, which was not.
I didn't take it seriously.
I had no intention of taking itseriously.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
I haven't met anyone who has.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Right.
So so I, you know, and I tookthe accelerator program for for
like four Saturdays or whateverit was and got my little diploma
and I was on my way.
I'm you know I probably stoppedat Coket.
Oscars or something on the wayup out of Scranton.
Yeah, I did have to go to them.

(17:22):
30 AA meetings with thatsentence.
And did you?
I went to one?
Yeah, I went to one.
I don't remember the street.
I still stopped there inmeetings, but I'm.
They used to be in the gym inthe back of the church and I
took Teddy Karnowski with me andnot, and after the meeting I

(17:44):
told them they had assigned itand they put their initials.
I said no, you have to sign the, the paper.
They said it's alcoholics,anonymous, we're not going to
sign it.
So I left there and I went toHighles and I passed it around
the bar and got the rest of theum the signatures out the boat.
Yep, and I was good to go yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
And um, so still at that time at Highles, um,
actually my father had hired mywife as a waitress she wasn't my
wife then, obviously, and shewas still going to school in
Philadelphia and, um, we had along term relationship, long
distance rather, for um, forabout a year and then she was

(18:28):
moving back home and, uh, wemoved in together so we had a
house to a rent in Dunmore andmy drinking was still, um, it
was daily, yeah, daily, almostnonstop, nonstop.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Any any time that you experienced withdrawal during
this time?
A lot of it just maybe yourstandard hangover little
dehydrated, blurry eyes Were you.
Were you experiencing blurryvision?
Maybe the sweats or any handsshaking?
Not?

Speaker 1 (19:03):
at that point Probably still Um.
So then I don't know the exactyear, but we decided, me and my
father collectively, to umpurchase a bar.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
What year is this?

Speaker 1 (19:26):
20, maybe 1920, 2019, somewhere, in there yeah.
And the only problem that Iever had with argue.
We didn't me and my wife neverfought about my drinking or
anything to that order.
But finances have come up atthat point yeah, cause to drink

(19:47):
as much as I did cost a lot ofmoney.
So if I bought a bar, right, Ididn't have to pay for my drinks
anymore.
There's a strategy behind it andI don't know if it was a
strategy that, I don't know ifthat was a my plan, but it was
definitely a subconsciously.

(20:08):
Something was you know, and nowI could explain why I was at a
bar, yeah you're working.
I have to be there, I have tokeep an eye on things.
Even if I'm not working per se,I gotta keep an eye on
everything.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
And this was the bar on drinker street, right, and it
was Jimmy's.
Yeah, I remember, cause if yougo to O'Hara you know what Jimmy
says.
Right, then it became Waggies,correct, that was a headquarters
for everyone I knew fromDunmore for quite some time.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, and so that was .
You know that was another on analcoholics belt, like that was
another check that I had.
Yeah, um, still not a lot ofproblems, what?
No, I shouldn't say that therewas a getting to be problems,
because you know now I wasgetting home later.
Yet you know before that Iwould just your what you would

(21:06):
expect from me from the amountof drinking I was doing.
Yeah, I guess you could say,and then I'm, I'm trying to get
my time frames together here,but in the process my father
passed away.
We got rid of the bar.
You know, we got rid of the barand it was about a year later I

(21:32):
got a phone call and my fatherpassed away, which was it?
was devastating, to say theleast.
He was my best friend andexcuse me, and and we went
through the whole funeral, thewhole process, from the minute I

(21:55):
got down to to my mother'shouse you know, my parents'
house people started showing upand the booze was getting
delivered.
You know, people were dropping,dropping booze off, dropping
alcohol off cases and cases andcases of beer, and that's what
we always did.
You and I both have lost a lotof friends through this.

(22:17):
And in morning you drank incelebration.
You drank for, for, whetheryou're mourning anything and
whatever.
Whatever happened, you drank andyou drank a lot of it and we
went through the whole, thewhole process the funeral, after

(22:38):
funeral dinner at Carmella's,of course, and that was a
Thursday and Friday.
I told my wife I'm gonna go,I'm going to work, I have to get
back to normal here, you know.
And and I didn't, and I wentdrinking 6.30 in the morning
like it was my job and I didthat for for three years.

(22:59):
I I any chance, any.
I didn't even excuse anymore, Ijust was.
I never mourned it and all Icould do to get out to not think
about it and not think aboutanything is to drink.
And here we, at this point, wehave three children.

(23:21):
I was there and I keep sayingthis I don't know if it's still
so.
I lie on telling myself but Iwas there for all of the kids'
stuff, but not not really Inbody, I was, but in a hurry.
I was always in a hurry to go,looking at my watch.
What time's it gonna be over?

(23:42):
Because I gotta make it.
I gotta go help Joe move acouch.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
You know, there was never a couch.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
There was a job, but but we, you know, there was
never.
It was always some kind of madeup story to go drinking.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
I see that a lot the hardest cases of, maybe, people
that would have denial thatseemed to be what they would
like to, you know, designatethemselves as a functional
alcoholic.
They never take into accountwhat they're not there for.
Maybe they're not having thearguments or or the direct harms

(24:19):
, but they're not there, you'rejust absent.
Even when you are present andI'm really glad you mentioned
that, because is this the life Iwant?
The guy that's in a hurry?
I can never be present unlessI'm in the bar getting my
medication, essentially to this,this growing anxiety, this

(24:40):
revving motor that's in my gut,my chest, to go be somewhere
else all the time.
I mean it's a horrible way tolive, but I didn't see it that
way.
Then I know how much you careabout your family and all the,
what kind of father you are,which is great.
It's not too often you hearsomeone already start to

(25:04):
understand those consequences ofnot not being present.
Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
I had somebody tell me last year about and for all
the activities I'm doing with mychildren, as I said, which is
the best way to do it With mychildren, as I said, which I
think I was, but I in reality Iwasn't.
And she said to me are youmaking up for something?
And she kind of said it as alittle shock and at first I was

(25:35):
very offended by it.
Sure, and the reason I was sooffended by it was because she's
right.
You know she was right.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
And so this is starting to crack.
You're starting to notice itduring the drinking and are you
getting any relief from drinkingaround this period?
You know you have unresolvedgrief.
Is there any point where youhave to, where you're getting
just this drunk?
Oh, there it is Like do youhave to be totally annihilated
to get?

Speaker 1 (26:06):
No.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
I wasn't.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
I was getting no relief.
At this point now I didn't wantto drink anymore.
I was to the point that I knewthat, that I knew I didn't want
it.
Still, there wasn't a lot ofthere wasn't fighting in the
house, I was just existingthough, yeah, and in the morning

(26:32):
I was so sick I couldn't brushmy teeth.
I couldn't.
It was, it was the shakes allday.
My work performance washorrendous.
I'm tenfold over now and thankGod they stuck with me through
this.
Since then I get a lot of that,a voice for the progress I'm

(26:57):
making.
But I was like I said.
I went from having so much funthat I was in hell.
I was literally in hell.
I didn't know a way out.
I didn't know a way out.
There was no relief.
I didn't ever get drunk.
It's like a drunk you used toget.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
And at this point did you think you even understood
what AA was?
That's just not for me Like.
Did you have an idea, even ifit was wrong, about what
Alcoholics Anonymous was?

Speaker 1 (27:31):
I did because I knew some people in the program and I
kind of fast forwarded.
I have gone in the past.
I'm not going to say that Ihave relapsed, because I've gone
to some meetings and I'dusually stop before and after
for some drinks.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, just pop in.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
I was doing it so that I could say I went.
I did go down, with some helpfrom John H at one point, to see
John Silent K and I went in todo like a little exam per se
down at the ice rink one timeand he gave me a couple of
little tests and he said youneed to go to Marwart.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
You studied hard, you passed.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
And he said what do you mean?
He said you need to go totreatment.
I was like when he said rightnow, today, I said OK, let me
call my wife to win the truck.
I was gone, I went home.
She said what do you say?
I said he said they probablygot to go to meetings, you know,
because that's not what Iwanted to hear yeah, um.

(28:43):
So I knew what it was and itwasn't going to work for me, I
was sure of it.
Yeah, um, so.
So then, like I said at thatpoint, I was very dependent on
alcohol, I was sickly dependent,and so it would have been like
May of 2000.

(29:05):
There are bolts, and you got tobear with me because the time
got really sketchy around it,but I passed out one night.
Not a drunk passed out.
Something physical was wrongwith me, so I got taken on the
hospital and I had a hospitalstay for a couple of days and it

(29:27):
was um, my liver enzymes wereup, sodium had plummeted and
everything to do with alcohols,and I think I was there for two
days.
At that point and they'rereleasing me and my wife was at
work and I called somebody tocome and get me and eat and they
what do you need?

(29:48):
So I need beer, of course, andcigarettes, and I got picked up
at the first hospital stay.
That's how I got picked up andmy health continued to
deteriorate in that timeframe,from May moving forward through
that summer, and I continued todrink.

(30:08):
I saw my primary doctor, drDempsey.
At that point I was gettingJohn's eyes were yellow.
He told me you know, you'regoing to die.
You know, quit drinking.
And I said, okay, I'll quitdrinking.
And he referred me.
I went to U Penn to see theliver specialist and they they,

(30:29):
you know said the same thing youneed to quit drinking.
My liver enzymes at that timewere up to almost 200.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
And what's the normal one?

Speaker 1 (30:38):
40.
Well between 10 and 50, butlike 40 is good and this whole
time.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
you know someone called the term cognitive.
You know disassociation,dissonance, distortions.
You have to avoid the idea thatyou're going to die, are you
just like?
It's something you could dealwith tomorrow?

Speaker 1 (31:01):
I didn't think they were correct and they're
diagnosis.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
You had an opposite opinion.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, you know, with my medical background, I was
sure that they were wrong on allof this.
Wow, and, as I said, I couldn't, couldn't, couldn't stop them.
Yeah, that was.
It was terrible.
I was stuck in this hole andand even at that point I was, I

(31:32):
was under verge of debatingwhether or not that was probably
better off to be dead anyways,yeah, so, so I didn't see the
use in.
And this went on through themthrough the summer, through the
summer.
And just a recent conversation,as a matter of fact, last week
with my wife.
I asked her do you know?

(31:56):
Did you you know I was drinking?
And she said, no, I didn't, orI wouldn't let myself believe
you were.
Yeah, yeah, I could not believethat I was drinking because I
couldn't have been that good athiding it.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Then, because I'm but it's amazing what you can block
out when you think someonemight be giving up on their own
life, so you can't allowyourself to believe it.
The pain is just too great tolet that kind of reality come
into your head that you weregiving up.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
Right.
So I ended up in and out of thehospital all summer, from May
into October.
Six, seven, eight.
I passed out again down thehospital and now, at this point,

(32:52):
they knew, you know, I was aregular.
No, no, I wasn't drinking and Iseized it.
I had a seizure from the.
They could have medicated me,but with me lying to them they
didn't.
And when I seized them it was adisaster Black and blue, from

(33:14):
my neck, my chest, everything,my bed, a big piece of my tongue
off, and I woke up in the ICU,or whatever the situation, and
my wife was staying there cryingand I finally told her I was
done.
Wasn't this, you know, whitelight experience thing?

(33:37):
But I said I'm done and Ibelieved it.
It wasn't like the otherhundred times that I was done.
And she was on the phone withPhilly, my doctor, and Philly.
They were more or less tellingher at this point that you know,

(33:57):
okay, he's done again.
Now, at this point, I wasgetting blood work once a week
telling him I wasn't drinking,and they'd never said anything.
I'd be down Philly every twoweeks or whatever, and they
would never say anything aboutme drinking.
I was like ha, you know, I gotyou.
Well, they were getting theblood results, but they're not
going to.
It's not their job to preach tome about drinking.

(34:20):
Their job is, if I want to help, then they'll help me.
There's 50 other people in thewaiting room and they told me
this the next week when I wentdown and I finally surrendered
and I was a mess, and she toldme Carl, there's 50 people out
there that have liver diseasethat want to help themselves.

(34:43):
Until you want to help yourself, we can't help you.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Wow, did that help?
Kind of wake you up to the.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
So at this point I was a couple of days sober.
Um, you know, I seized and Iand that's my sobriety date yeah
, the over eight, and it couldhave been the six, seven, but
who's who's sure so I went tohim, I went up to Marworth Now,
I got a ride up there.
They took my license because ofthe seizure and I went up to
Marworth and I walked in thebottom building because I was it

(35:13):
was not familiar with it, and Iwas looking for a room and my
counselor, gina, said you're notgoing to stay here now.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Excuse me, I'm going to get a drink.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Okay.
So she said that, um, you'renot going to have to stay
because you already detoxed andyou've been X amount of days
sober.
She's like what if somebodydropped you off up here?
I told her I'd be down my grass.
She's like well, you know wherethe closest bar is?

(35:56):
I said I do, and it's alldownhill.
So, against my better judgment,she put me an intensive
outpatient care and now, at thatpoint, I'm still in complete
liver failure, jesus.
Um, so you know, we're back andforth to Philly now every and,

(36:18):
like I said, the loud is blurryin this timeframe, but we're
back and forth to Philly and, um, there's, they're hoping that
I'm going to regenerate because,you know, your liver is your
only organ, your body, that canheal itself if you didn't do
enough damage to it.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Your reversible damage suit Right.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Um so I, um no, I also had a liver condition.
Gromy hematosis, what's that?
It's a liver disease.
Okay, I'm not going to blame mysituation on that Sure, it's a
little bit of a shock.
Sure Helped that out to 110% soso I don't want to make an

(37:01):
excuse of why this happened.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
So drinking daily for 20 years did have an effect.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Correct A little bit small fraction of the problem,
of course.
Um, so I was making my you knowmy treatments whenever I had to
go up there.
I think it was four nights aweek.
I don't like I said it was umcause Gina still bust me and I
came strolling in there and andI was in rough shape.
Um, so I did that from Octobertill till round the holidays.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
December, it'd be 90 days or.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Okay, and well, I still talk there.
Yeah, you know, I still, I'mstill doing a little bit of it.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
I'm discharged per se , but I need all hell if I can
get still so I am round theholidays there.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
I um fell again and you pen told CMC not, they're
not allowed to touch me anymore.
They sent an ambulance for me,brought me down in day.
I was in such bad shape.
No, you need to be six monthssober to get put on a liver

(38:10):
transplant list.
They determined that I was notgoing to survive this without a
transplant, so they said thatthey were going to my doctor.
At the time, divya Roberts wentto the transplant team at U Penn
because evidently she hadenough faith in me.
At five and a half months sobershe felt that I was going to

(38:32):
stick this out.
She talked to the transplantteam and they'll give them me to
work up and if I could survivea transplant, if they would put
me on the list.
So I was down there for I think11 days Could be awesome and
it's a series of testing.

(38:53):
They're not going to give you atransplant if you're not going
to live the survive, the surgeryyou know.
So I survived the right pastthe testing and they put me on
the list.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
How are you dealing with anxiety then?
What's your anxiety?
What was your mindset?
That you thought maybe I'mmaking a mistake, I should just
give.
Like I could think this way,give up and drink.
I'm definitely not going tomake it, but I might as well be
drunk.
This is the little time I hadleft it.
Was that ever going throughyour head?

(39:26):
Not now You're full borecommitment, you're good.
You, even if you're going todie, were you going to die sober
?

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yes, I was.
So, I was fully, yeah, I wasready to.
If I was going to die, I wasgoing to die sober, and I was
actually accepting that I wasgoing to die.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Wow, Black, that's.
I remember running into youhere and there and it just
that's intense right.
Yeah, it definitely was.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
I was just trying to do my best to put a show on for
my kids.
I thought I was yeah, they werescared to death.
I thought I was putting thiswith the understanding.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Did they understand what was going on?

Speaker 1 (40:14):
My older son did.
Yeah, you know, hunter, he'sjust 12 now.
Yeah, so that took a toll onhim.
Yeah, and I was still.
I remember one time it wasprobably in the fall still there
that I had taken my younger sonto a baseball game and at the
end there I was done to 118pounds and I fell and because of

(40:39):
the medicines I was on I wasbleeding.
They were trying to get anambulance.
Now I was gettingconfrontational because I didn't
want my and my son he ran on tobaseball field.
It was terrible, you know,because he was scared.
So it was a real tough, hardtime and so that they gave me

(41:04):
all the testing and a lot ofthat from then to a lot of it?

Speaker 2 (41:10):
I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
I was kind of just going through the motions and
right before it was the end ofMarch, it was April.
My wife's family had a weddingdown at a ski resort in
Allentown.
My wife didn't want me to go,not that she didn't want me to
go, but scared.

(41:32):
Right before that she hadgotten the phone call that I had
about two weeks to live and Ididn't know about it.
So I said no, I'm going to thiswedding, you know.
So we had to go get me a newsuit because I was never 118
pounds since fifth grade?
No, probably not then either,and I went down with my me, her

(41:54):
and my son, with Don it was, andI remember I went outside, it
was, snow was just melting andthere was a dead tribute band
playing outside on the rocks andI was like I'll be out there
because I just wanted to beoutside and hear the music.
You know I've been in the houseall winter and man I was.

(42:15):
I was like I was ready.
I didn't think I was coming outof this and I was accepting it.
And we didn't went into thatwedding and most of the people
didn't know I was there becausethey didn't recognize me
physically.
So it was about two weeks laterit was it was April 25.

(42:40):
Greg called me.
Greg Hunt asked me if I heardanything and I said no.
I said you'll be the next one Icall.
Next time you hear from me,that means something happened
About 20 minutes later the phonerang and it was 215.

(43:01):
And they told me they got me aliver.
And I called my wife.
She said I said get ready, wegot to go.
And she's like where are wegoing?
I was at the beach and you canhear banging off walls like in
the.
I called Greg back.
It was about 20 minutes.
He's like you got to be kiddingme.
I said I don't know how you didit.

(43:22):
But I'm on my way, so we we gotdown there and it was like I
said, a lot of my memories gotat this point, but I know I gave
my wife a kiss and told her, Iloved her 17 hours later I was
done and I was down there forabout 14 days I think, and they

(43:50):
wanted me to come home and go toAllied for a while.
But I was going home.
Then I said I'm not going,don't, let's not make save that
for somebody there.
And I went home and it wentthrough.
A April recovery period was Iwent back to work in like
Christmas time, but I mean therecovery was half a year, over a

(44:14):
year, yeah it was a prettyrough go around.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
What does it feel like your liver is removed.
You have a new one in there.
Like can you what is thesensation of that?
Like what does it feel like Outof the scoring and major
surgery?
Can you internally like are youfeeling something different?
Like what does that feel like?

Speaker 1 (44:37):
So when I came home I was singing a lot and I wanted
to get a guitar.
My wife's guitar from the attic, yeah, and she's like this was
like 45 minutes and she's likeyou're not going to the attic in
the guitar.
And I said I really need to.
She's like not today.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
You don't need to learn how to play the guitar
today because I didn't know howto play the guitar, maybe the
the livers from a guitar player.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
So I was back and forth with the gift of life
through some communications.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
And what's the gift of life?

Speaker 1 (45:11):
If the life is the program, who, who you know?

Speaker 2 (45:13):
if you are an organ donor, your organs go to the
gift of life, and then they willsupply them with people you
know organ donies and needsthroughout the country.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
So if you are the family member of the donor, you
will be in contact and they willtell you what organs were
donated.
So many got whatever.
Yeah, yeah, and you can write athank you note if they want to
write a thank you note and so sothey know.

(45:49):
After the process to give thelife, comes to me with a
counselor because it's a bigdeal.
It's a big deal.
I have somebody's somebody losta life to give me a life second
chance.
So there was a thank you.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
There was a there was .

Speaker 1 (46:08):
I wrote a thank you note.
I didn't know where it wasgoing, didn't?
Know anything about it A coupleof months later.
It's not exactly a streamlinedoperation.
They do what they have to do.
I understand, but once later Igot a response.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
Not knowing anything.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
I got a letter from gift of life, and so then they
asked if I would want tocommunicate with the donor's
family, and I said yes.
So the first letter I got wasno name, just a letter.

(46:50):
No, I'm sorry, the letter that Idid get.
It was had a name and I'm notgoing to use names in here, but
it's true the wife of thegentleman who's liver I got, and
he had an accident on the 23rdand he fell off a roof and he
was brain dead and they made thedecision to be generous enough

(47:14):
to give his organs, which inturn saved me.
And but in this two paragraphletter of 25 years of marriage,
she chose to write about that hewas a songwriter in the guitar
player.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Oh, wow, so what.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Right Of anything she could have chose to write about
.
That's what she wrote to me,and I had to go home and get
this guitar.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
I'm a skeptical guy, most of my life kind of cynical,
but it's just so strange, sostrange to not have some meaning
.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
So so that explains me going singing and wanting
that guitar.
And if there was a more to it,then why did she write about
that?
Why did she pick that?
Or of everything?

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Out of everything that's possible.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Right.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Everything that's possible.
I'm just you know, I don't sitand think about it often Of what
it's like or what it means youcan get an organ put into you
that saves you.
I had an ACL replacement and Iwould think, even like a hundred
years ago, you'd be out ofcommission for the rest of your

(48:37):
life, like with a knee, thatyou're alive because there's
another person's liver in you.
That's wild.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Well, I'm alive because of unselfish ununselfish
thing that somebody chose tosave my life, not knowing me,
not knowing whose life they'regoing to save, but it's just an
unbelievable gift that I wasgiven, which all ties into my

(49:11):
recovery, because this isn'tjust and it never was just about
me, but there's other peopleinvolved.
Now you know I owe them thatrespect.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Never and I'll call again.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
I can say that I won't do it today.
But as long as I get up everymorning and say that and I just
found I just got in contact with, so fast forward a little bit
again.
We went through the letters andthen I got another letter
saying that she wanted to, wouldit be okay to contact each

(49:48):
other?
And it was five months ago or soin the springtime.
I got a and I said yes and Igave my information and I left a
meeting peace and serenity andI got a text email.

(50:13):
I'm sorry, and I was at a redlight and I opened it and here's
the woman's name and phonenumber.
Now it was like this was realnow and I sat at the green light
and I called Gina from Marworthand she says pull over.
Are you having a panic attack?

(50:34):
I said I'm not sure, but I'mlike it was very emotional to
think that I'm going to speak tothis woman, and I've since then
spoke to her numerous times.
We have a relationship.
It's not a big fast moving.
We're not going to go toChristmas dinner, but we talk
Wow.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
And you know she lost a husband.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
You know, two kids lost a father.
So it's it's.
It's definitely an emotionalsituation, but but it just gives
me more of a reason.
I originally got sober for my,for my kids and my wife and my
family and my friends and I justwas able to celebrate three

(51:25):
years the other day, that's lastSunday, and thank you, but I
told them.
my wife came down and I gave hermy.
I never got a one year, oneyear coin because I was sober
for.
So, as I said, I didn't go toall through that time of the

(51:47):
medical recovery I didn't haveany thoughts of drinking.
I was in such physical ailmentsalready because of the recovery
from the transplant.
But later that year, aboutOctober I I was going out a
little more people were, youknow I was going to bars but I'd

(52:09):
be up our property, up our cluband people drinking, and a lot
of them it was kind of like Ihad a like a scarlet letter on
me a little bit.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
first I was like I don't want to go near me.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
I said listen, this is my problem, not yours.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
If you guys are going to have some beers, yeah, but
stay 10 yards or you're going tocatch some alcohol.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
You'll pick this up so but but a friend of ours
called me in like October thereit was right after a year sober.
And he said you know, I knowwhat you went through and stuff
and it's, it's one of our mutualfriends from childhood.
But he said I'm going to thismeeting over in the odd.
Why don't you meet me thereSunday?

(52:51):
And he's only been there acouple of times since, but
that's all right, cause I wentthat first Sunday.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah, I remember.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Yes, and, and it was so nice walking and seeing you
and a couple of other friends ofours, because I don't know if I
would have what would havehappened if I didn't but a
couple familiar faces is all ittook and I haven't left, and I
haven't left and I'm you knowit's four or five meetings a
week.
I actually just got to do myfirst um commitment speaking

(53:25):
engagement up at avenuesrecovery center.
Yeah, Um, great, greatexperience for me.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Great place.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Um and all of this um just happen.
I couldn't do this by myself.
It's an accident, but becauseit is, I would never be able to
stay sober.
I don't think if I had thisfellowship because, um, I I
definitely felt like I was stillmissing something.

(53:52):
So, camaraderie, some, Ienjoyed going out, doing that
stuff bars and and I enjoy goingto the meetings.
You know you get to talk alittle bit, you get to.
You know it's um, it'sdefinitely helping me.
Um and uh, I just hope, um thatwhen I tell people you know

(54:15):
what I went through at meetingsand stuff, that that I could
help somebody else.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
And this is.
You know, I was, I'm, I've seenit happen, I watched it even
last week.
Uh, you speaking at avenues.
I heard some people up theremention that.
Um, I'm interested in what isrecovery in the, in this realm,
using a 12-month-old self-stepprogram?
What has it done to the dynamicof your family we already

(54:42):
deeply loved and admired?
What did it change in the house?

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Well, I bring more to yeah, I feel as though that I'm
, I'm, I'm, I'm there foreverything.
Now, now, I really truly am,I'm there to their needs.
They're why I did not put inmyself 120% constantly first,

(55:08):
because I always really did.
It was for self-satisfaction.
You know, I went to the, to thebaseball game look at how great
I am but I better get to thebar because I'm probably missing
something.
Um, now I'm truly there andfocused on what's better for us.
Everything so far and free and Idon't think you were there

(55:31):
Sunday, but I was back to mycoins here.
So I got my two-year coin and Igave it to my wife the other
day when I took my three-yearcoin, because the first three
were for them.
Now I have to do it for myself,because as long as I do it for
myself, then I'll be there forthem.
You know, as long as I staysober, then they have a good

(55:54):
father, a good husband, and myfriends have a good friend and I
can be there for my family andit's just brought me so much
closer with everybody.
Um, everything is gettingbetter.
My, my, the world was.
I was in a hell that I crawledout of Financially.

(56:15):
It was a horrendous situation Ihad us in, I got myself about
half dug out of the hole thatI've made in my life.
It's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
It's not bad.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Yeah, I just did it by accident.
I just did it by accident.
I go to the meetings I don't doand I was having a tough time
about a year and a half agoreally bringing myself down like
how bad, like look what you did, everything you put in, and
then I had to finally get mylike, if I kept dwelling on that

(56:48):
, it would have.
It's a trap.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
It's a total trap, man.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
You know today's reflection.
You know it talks about lookingat yourself in the mirror.
I was, I couldn't look atmyself in the mirror.
Everything that was not goingright per se for me, but I still
had three beautiful kids,beautiful forgiving wife um

(57:15):
forgiving God that I believe in,but nice house.
You know, the white pick offence Like I had a good job I
had.
I still have all of that and I.
It was all in place when I wasdoing what I was doing, but I
never, never, realized what Ihad Never got to experience it.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
You were absent.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Right and um, and I almost lost it all.
I mean it was very close to melosing it all and now it's just,
but my no fault of mine.
It's getting rebuilt up aroundme with simple, simple steps of
not drinking.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Like I've known you my whole life and the time I got
to spend with you andconversations the last two or
three years is had a profoundeffect on me.
The way, uh, I want to approachmy family, uh, when I hear you
talk or we have littleconversations you know I don't
get to always express that toyou, but I take away a lot and I

(58:11):
came back and humiliated.
I was in an early surprise whenwe met again and, um, I am just
so glad you're sober and couldgive insight to people who,
being in your scenario, mightnot get out of bed and like,
fuck, just give up.
And that's not your story.
That is not your story.

(58:33):
It's a life lost and a lifesaved, and I think you're
helping a tremendous amount ofpeople.
And that's why I had you ontoday, because, uh, you inspire
me and, um, it's, it's it'shaving friends like you that
keeps me sober, that I couldtalk to you, I could call you
anytime.
Um, I think that's what a lotof people feel at the end of

(58:53):
their addiction.
That will never happen to them.
They're so isolated in theirown head, own drinking.
Um, your story is helping a lotof people.
What would you say to uh, howdo you?
Is there something I didn't askthat you wanted to express?

Speaker 1 (59:12):
No, no, I think that's about it, Joe.
Um, uh, you know just everybodyout there.
They need to know there's helpout here.
Yeah, like you said, I mean, Iknow your phone's always on,
mine is as well, and um well,there's new rules.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
I got to turn it off at nine.
I'm going to get you out.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Yeah, you will, you will see.
You know it's going to getworse.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Yeah, so, um, I'm really glad you came by and I'd
love to have you on again and Ihope you uh come and meet the
guys in the next couple of weeks.
But, uh, as a waggy like,thanks for coming by.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Thanks, Andrew.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
I'd like to thank you for listening to another
episode of all better.
To find us on all betterfm orlisten to us on Apple podcasts,
spotify, google podcast Stitcher, iheart Radio and Alexa.
Special thanks to our producer,john Edwards, and engineering

(01:00:11):
company 570 Drone.
Please like or subscribe to uson YouTube, facebook, instagram
or Twitter and, if you're not,on social media you're awesome.
Looking forward to seeing youagain and remember, just because
you're sober doesn't meanyou're right.
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