All Episodes

September 3, 2024 • 65 mins

What if unresolved childhood trauma could be the root cause of your addictions? In today's powerful episode, we sit down with Mike G as he opens up about his first year of recovery at Fellowship House. Mike takes us back to his roots in Dunmore, a small football town, where the impact of his parents' divorce and his father's alcoholism left lasting scars. Listen as he shares how these early experiences shaped his feelings of inadequacy and responsibility, and how completing step four of his recovery journey helped him tackle these deep-seated fears head-on.

From experimenting with marijuana during a middle school basketball game to balancing sports and social life, Mike recounts his early substance use and its intersection with his athletic ambitions. Despite participating in programs like DARE, he found himself frequently blacking out and attending therapy sessions in high school. The narrative takes you through his college years, where opportunities in sports led him to new paths and challenges, including a stint playing football in Berlin. Mike's candid storytelling brings you into the highs of MDMA use and the harsh lows of addiction, culminating in a cubicle job that only deepened his despair.

Join us as Mike describes his transformative experience at Fellowship House, where supportive counselors and a conducive environment played crucial roles in his recovery. Discov

Give us a Review!

📢 **Announcement!** 📢. We want to introduce our new 24-hour, 7-days-a-week hotline for crisis or substance use treatment. Whether you are seeking help for the first time or are an alum in need of immediate assistance, our team is here for you around the clock. 📞 **Call 1-800-HELP-120 anytime, day or night.** #ScrantonRecovery #ScrantonRecovery #ScrantonRecovery 1-(888)-HELP-120
📢 **Announcement!** 📢. We want to introduce our new 24-hour, 7-days-a-week hotline for

Fellowship House
As a treatment center, Fellowship House offers both residential and outpatient treatment services to

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Support the show


Stop by our Apple Podcast and drop a Review!

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/allbetter/id1592297425?see-all=reviews


Support The Show
https://www.patreon.com/allbetter

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and thanks again for listening to another
episode of All Better.
I'm your host, Joe Van Wee.
Today's guest is Mike G.
Mike is a person that justentered his first year of
recovery and is Fellowship Housealumni.
Mike wants to be open about hisrecovery and decided to tell

(00:25):
his story here what the firsteight months of early recovery
looked like for him and what itwas like growing up in a small
town and having a passion forfootball, and it still wasn't
enough to protect him from anaddiction that spiraled out of

(00:45):
control.
Mike has become a good friendover the last year and I'm
excited for you to meet him.
Let's meet Mike G.
Mike G on the mic.
We're here with Mike G.
Mike is alumni from FellowshipHouse.

(01:05):
He actually graduates thisevening.
He will be accepting a ceremonythat we call a coin out.
Mike, thanks for coming on.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Hey, thanks, joe, my pleasure, do anything for you,
like a brother to me.
Man, you nervous, I don't knowwhat's going on.
This is your first podcast, myfirst podcast.
I'm just going with it.
You know, you just asked me assoon as I walked in the door, so
I was like let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well, yeah, and it's a chance to tell your story and
help others, and you know you'rewilling to come on and talk
about your recovery openly, andyou have been for months now.
I think a good place to startis to describe.
There's a little town next toscranton that's called dunmore.

(01:54):
How do you like your dear me,dunmore?
So give me a summary of what itwas like growing up there.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
I would say, growing up, my, you know it's a small
town, football town, everybodyknows your name.
You know looking forward toplay for Coach Jack Hensis when
I was younger.
But going back to that, youknow, with my recovery, doing

(02:28):
the work and seeing where maybethe trauma has, you know,
filtered and started growing asa young ages.
When my parents divorced I wasabout six or seven years old and
the feeling that I had for thatI thought it was my fault.
So I lived with that.
I thought I was the problem,lived with that.
I thought I was the problem.

(02:49):
It's such a young age and Iheld on to that for so many
years.
But growing up I was alwaysoutside, going, going back.
I was outside because I didn'twant to come home, because at
the time, you know, my, my dadhad an alcohol problem.
It was an alcoholic.
My mom was busy doing that.
Single mother, single father.
They had me at a young age.
So, just growing up, I had agreat childhood.

(03:13):
I was always with my baba.
She watched me.
But I grew up on DelawareStreet in Dunmore playing cops
and robbers, backyard footballsome mischief stuff too, you
know, ringing the doorbell andrunning.
They have a name for that, butit's an appropriate name.
But you know, I can't say I hada bad childhood, I just held on

(03:36):
to those bad thoughts andfeelings growing up.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, growing up, yeah, I the word trauma, that

(04:08):
kind of serious physical damage,an event and I just want to put
some context to it because ofthe way we teach trauma here, we
first treat it in thisobjective, non-personalized kind
of view and it's the way it wasdescribed to you when you
arrived here.

(04:28):
Let's talk about trauma in thisreally narrow lane and lens
that a memory function.
So if the brain's recordingevents and times and you have
this continuity of you beingyourself, what is trauma if you
don't lose an arm?
So the way we're using thatword and the way you just used

(04:51):
it, the context is this Ifthere's an event in your life
that begins to use your fight orflight, that's registered as
fear and a bunch of these minievents.
It's registered as fear and abunch of these mini events say
divorce, a move, change ofschool, things that other people
are like, that wasn'ttraumatizing to me.

(05:11):
Well, I try to put it right inthis lane.
So if we're talking aboutmemory, this is an event,
especially for a child, thatwon't go into long-term memory
right away, you know, a coupledays, weeks, months.
It stays as an open event inthis working memory, what you'd
call your short-term memory.
So if the event is creatingdispleasure, fear, anxiety,

(05:35):
discomfort, the fight-or-flightresponse, into your amygdala,
this older part of your brainthat's really useful to measure
threats.
Now, when they've beenvanquished or they've left you,
you could go back to a normal,balanced state.
Trauma are these events thatdon't turn that off, or at least

(05:58):
in a quick, balanced way.
So you experienced a divorce andsome people will be like why is
he describing that as trauma?
Well, here, that's how wediscussed it and when we taught
that.
What did that do to change theperspective of not only okay,
you're saying an early divorcefed to your identity, that since

(06:20):
you're that age, you're thesubject of the divorce.
It's not your parents gettingdivorced.
Since you're that age, you'rethe subject of the divorce.
It's not your parents gettingdivorced.
Mike is the subject and cause.
That's a child's kind ofposition.
Where did you take that newdefinition?
You learned here, and apply itthrough the rest of your life,
that these are events that nevercease to end and you're
bringing them into newrelationships, new events, this

(06:43):
unresolved, what we're callingtrauma.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, definitely from doing step four.
I know I'm fast forwarding alittle bit, but step four, my
defects were fear of being alone, fear of not being good enough
Like the main ones, the rotation.
I feel like the fear of notbeing good enough is that's
where that trauma started.
Like the fear of not being goodenough is that's where that
trauma started.
My whole entire life, havingthat just on my shoulders at the

(07:08):
all my life, and I feel likesports was a huge mask that I've
wore for so long, was it a goodone.
It was a great one, yeah, butthat was also an ego, because
the ego and how I perceivethings now is like okay, they
had me at a young age.
Okay, this is me ruminating,making all this up in my head.

(07:31):
This is insanity and, lookingback on the last 15 years, I
lived in chaos.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
And making up everything, everything, and oh,
this person looks at me wrong,oh, they don't like me or
something.
It just it's.
It's a huge insanity and chaos.
It's.
I'm just very grateful for thisprogram, the fellowship, and I
guess what I'm trying to say isto make to make somewhat sense

(08:00):
is that, you know, I really hadto change everything and
surrender Like I had to changeeverything and surrender, like I
had changed my number who Ihang out with.
There's people in my life nowthat I would never think I would
be friends with, but they'reawesome people and these were
all decisions you made byyourself.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Somewhat, I listened.
You felt empowered to do ityourself.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
I like I like, at brookdale, my counselor um said,
danielle was like you're gonnadie, and something kind of
struck struck me there.
I was like, yeah, you know, Iam kind of out of control.
You know, 7 000 rpm guy, I wantmore, more, more and just I was
just hiding from reality for solong.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
I dig the way we're talking about this more.
It's more like a Tarantinomovie.
We could start in Dunmore, popback to Brookdale, back to Fort.
So let's keep this volley going.
This will make it interesting.
Let's go back to Dunmore HighSchool.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
And you were a great athlete and you just described
sports as a place to connect.
But sports also build around anego and this could be healthy,
yes, but you've had you'vedescribed this kind of not so
much alienation, thisseparateness because of, early

(09:18):
on, a split of your primarycaregivers.
When did you realize alcohol,marijuana, when did they get
introduced and when did you feelthat they were, there was a
good match there?
What they, what were they doingfor you?
How old were you?

Speaker 2 (09:36):
I believe I was in eighth grade.
When I seventh or eighth gradeI was at halftime of a
basketball game and a few peoplewere smoking a J at tennis
courts at Dunmore High School.
I was like, oh sure, I'll tryit, like that's.
That was like kind of mypersonality, whatever.
Like let's just, let's do it.
You know, kind of like, oh hey,joe, this sounds like a

(09:59):
horrible idea.
Like who's driving?

Speaker 1 (10:01):
You weren't scared at all.
Was there any forces prior tothat telling you you know sports
drugs?
Was marijuana viewed as a drugto you then, or was there a
softer image of it?

Speaker 2 (10:14):
I mean we had the DARE program, but that was.
I didn't really take thatseriously.
It's hard to take it seriously.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Did you get the briefcase when they started it?
When I was like late eighties,they'd open a briefcase and it'd
have like examples this is anupper downer.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, I think we watched a video or something and
it was just like I was notinterested.
It kind of wanted me to trythem, you know.
But but yeah, man, I just thatwas my first uh.
But yeah man, that was my firstJ, I think seventh, eighth
grade I used to steal like forDunmore Oilers Me and my buddy,

(10:52):
you know my mom had stuff in therefrigerator Like we didn't
have a bottle opener.
I didn't know my, you know, gettwo bottle caps and open it and
I didn't have that in my resumeyet.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Back to the tennis court.
Did you get high that day?

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, I got high, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
So do you remember that, like what was not for some
people to feel, a differentstate of being conscious?
You get stoned.
You take a couple hits.
Was there anything to compareto in the first 12 years of your
life, the way you were feelingthen?

(11:31):
Was there anything to associateit to?
Or was it scary, or did youimmediately feel relief?
How would you describe it?

Speaker 2 (11:40):
there was some sort of relief.
I was laughing a lot.
I think the second time was alittle bit more intense, with
the, with the getting high thefirst time.
I guess going back I was likeit was.
My body was just like adjustingto this because the first time
putting this into my, you knowmy system, Did you feel still a

(12:01):
deep sense of self?

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Did you feel like yourself?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
In a way.
In a way but I definitely know,going looking back, it was an
altered personality and that wasthe werewolf yeah, the werewolf
.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Awaken and alcohol culturally and around sports.
This area it's not too taboo.
It's like this hidden you know,acceptability, that weekends
were you going to kink parties.
What was happening in yourgeneration of weekends for

(12:41):
football?

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, bonfires go up Music Lakes to my buddy's place
I don't want to drop any names,but yeah, doing that every
weekend, drinking and driving,which was looking back on it.
I'm very thankful no one gothurt.
I ruined a Cadillac my dad, mygrandfather's Cadillac DeVille

(13:03):
97 green.
That's unacceptable.
White leather interior off ajump.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Did it have the lighters and the leashes to hold
in the background in the backseat and light your cigarette?
Yeah, I had a Caddy.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, but yeah, that was over like a basketball game.
I lost, like I said, feelingthe bad energy, the bad wolf.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
But yeah, I would say , drinking and driving was
acceptable.
Back then, did you look at itas something that was an issue
that you could describe asalcoholism, substance use
disorder?
These couldn't have beenconcepts in your head, did?

Speaker 2 (13:54):
you feel different than anyone you were using,
differently than anyone else,say by senior year.
Yeah, it was a little out ofcontrol in my early age.
Senior year, Winding back tofreshman year, that's when I
kind of started drinking.
My mom made me go to atherapist and I was considered
an alcoholic, so that kind ofstarted drinking.
My mom made me go to atherapist and I was considered
an alcoholic, so that kind ofscared me at first.
Yeah, yeah, I had a bunch ofblackouts when I was at a young

(14:16):
age so I stopped for a littlewhile and then I was still
hanging out with that same crowd, same people.
That's still like I kind ofwanted that.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
And how about plans for football or school
continuing school.
Where were you at senior yearwith that?

Speaker 2 (14:34):
I honestly had no direction.
I just remember Chris Ferriscalling me and saying hey, go up
to Mansfield, you could playthere.
He's just graduating.
So the head coach called me andI got an opportunity to play
there.
I had no, it was like college.
I didn't know what this iswhatever, I just go up there to

(14:56):
play football Went to Mansfieldafter my senior year of high
school and I did pretty wellthere.
I got redshirted so I kind ofwent all over.
My girlfriend at the time livedin Philly.
We went to Philly a bunch ofweekends, all over, like
Bloomsburg, all the stateschools.
Yeah, I was partying a lot myfreshman year but I do remember

(15:22):
it was kind of like a growing upstage to being on my own.
I remember calling when I firstgot there for doubles because
everyone, like the footballplayers we go before school
starts and all my friends arestill in the summer, have a few
weeks left before they go tocollege.
I remember calling my mom.
My mom's been a huge backbone.

(15:43):
She's been through me for allthis.
She's awesome.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
And I remember calling her and be like, hey, I
don't, I don't think I could dothis.
I'm in Mansfield, pa, right now, route six man, I'm in the
boonies and she goes, startwalking.
I go, and she hung up the phone.
I was just like oh.
I was just like oh, but like Ineeded that.
I was like get your shittogether, mike, you know.

(16:10):
Then I was like you know mypurpose.
I was there to play football.
I wasn't there for an education, which I'd never.
I'm just being honest.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
I love sports, yeah from that point yeah, it's.
These are consequences of notfeeling like.
You know you had a solidifiedplan.
You know you're great atfootball.
Everybody knew that and and nowit's being almost, it's

(16:40):
becoming almost impossible tostay at Mansfield.
And where?
Where is your drinking and druguse at this point?
Is it, is it helping you atleast manage the stress of this,
this experience at schoolcrumbling, or is or is it not
helping at all?

Speaker 2 (17:00):
I'm still smoking weed and drinking on the weekend
, sometimes during the week.
There's one thing, though whenI played sports I was pretty
disciplined, so I knew myredshirt.
Freshman year I'm like, okay, Ican deal with this.
Played one year at Mansfield,did pretty well, and then they

(17:24):
dropped the football program.
And then that's when I went tomy new spot, kutztown University
, and that's where I met afriend of mine, joel.
He was me and him partied thelast 15 years together.
We were, you know, you call itraves, shows, you name it, but
Kutztown was a fun little cityand that's where I took another

(17:50):
four years to graduate.
I was like on the fifth yearplan, maybe five and a half year
plan, but I got in troublethere a bunch of times for
fighting out of control.
You know, even though I'mtrying to justify it, you know
they're taunting us and all thatstuff throwing snowballs at us.

(18:11):
It's still wrong.
Looking back on it.
I just had to go on probation.
Then I missed my junior year.
I missed the first two games atKutztown.
I missed the first two gamesthere that season.
Senior year got hurt, missed ahandful of games, ended the

(18:33):
season pretty strong, ended upgraduating that summer finally,
but then I got an opportunity.
You know, and I'm reading thisbook called Playing for Pizza.
What's it called?
It's called Playing for Pizzaby Paul Rishon.
I don't know the name right now.

(18:54):
What was the book about?
The book was about an NFLquarterback who played for the
Cleveland Browns and he was likea backup.
Backup.
He got sent in and the Brownshave this large three to four
touchdown lead.
He comes in, blows, it getsinjured, he's in the hospital.

(19:16):
His agent's like no one wantsyou.
He just pulled the biggest leadin the AFC championship history
.
It was fictional, but anyways.
His agent's like hey, you couldplay in Italy.
This team in Italy wants to,wants you.
So that's where I got, you know, the seed to go play overseas.

(19:40):
Uh, I talked to my mom'sboyfriend at the time go on
europlayerscom, set up a profile, put your highlights in there.
And I got a message, probablyin a week, by my old coach from
Mansfield, dave Likens, who Iused to play there and he was at

(20:03):
Berlin, germany, at the time,and I was like oh, he's like.
Asked me like can you stillplay?
I'm like there's a.
Asked me like can you stillplay?
I'm like there's a bear shit inthe woods.
Yeah, you know so I got anopportunity after that, so I
didn't have to go get the jobyet.
You know so I went to Berlinfor a year, uh, and played
football over there.
They only allowed two Americanson the field at the time.

(20:24):
Um, I had a coach too.
Nobody really understood me.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Was it awesome?
What were your experiences Did?

Speaker 2 (20:40):
you make any relationships with anyone who
wasn't an English speaker, orfriends?
Yeah, Facebook, I kept in touchwith a lot of the guys, but
then, like I said, going backlistening to other people.
What I need to change is, youknow, I don't have Facebook
anymore.
I don't have any social media.
I'm a ghost, which I like, butyeah, I mean.

(21:00):
Berlin introduced me to thenightlife MDMA you know the XC,
all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Mdma, you know the xc , all that stuff.
Just to make a clear line,drinking marijuana, uh, at
kutztown, was there anypsychedelic use?
Then I used cocaine once andpassed out, yeah, and but it was
like, yeah, some people don'tjive with it.
Um, so now you're in berlin andyou're playing for a year, uh,
in the European League.
Berlin is notorious.
It is the mecca of allnightclubs, raves, you know all

(21:39):
of that.
That whole scene Did you justconnect immediately with the
seat?

Speaker 2 (21:47):
I just immediately it was like, wow, oh, I have to go
to practice the next day too.
There's a bunch of times I justwalked to practice right
afterwards, got on the train,let's go.
I was like I could do this I'mbuilt for this Like crazy and
still perform at a decent youknow.
I mean it wasn't like NFL, butit was like college level.
Yeah, that's exciting.

(22:09):
Tony, tony hunt played there.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
There's a bunch of big names that played in this
league, like I was playingagainst them and at this point
there's no backup plan for acareer or professional life,
like you're just in the momentof living in europe and playing
in the moment.
And then comes MDMA.
Yeah, so why do you think youconnected with that drug?

(22:34):
And, to be specific, I meanthis is a drug that for the last
four decades has been lobbiedand voiced for treating trauma
or a sense of disconnection withself.
Or if you have this lack ofbonding or you have such a
pronounced ego that's reallythere to do a specific job

(22:55):
protect you not only sociallybut from the hard realities, is
that you might not be who youare, who you're saying.
This self-talk and voice thatmight not be there to point to
it could be something completelymanufactured in an individual.
You take this drug.
Describe to me what that drugfelt like the first time you

(23:17):
could remember the exactfeelings that were being
produced by it.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Felt free.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Free.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Before, like alive.
I felt the music in my soul.
Yeah, you know, I just feltlike the connection, the people
I in my my soul.
Yeah, you know, I just feltlike the connection, the people
I was with.
It's just like, wow, I don'twant to move.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Did this lead to chronic use or was it uh?

Speaker 2 (23:44):
I feel, yeah, I was chasing it.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, I was chasing the dragon, okay, yeah
definitely, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, definitely Absolutely.
And going back with that bookthat I was reading I'm sorry
this just came to me EverythingI was reading was coming to life
.
I read the Pat Conroy Lords ofDiscipline, which is based on
South Carolina, the CitadelSchool, and I was reading that
and I finished it and my coach,dave Likens, in Berlin he was in

(24:10):
Berlin at the time I'm still inD block, no more and he's like,
hey, do you check with the?
The running back is is from, hewas from the Citadel.
It was so cool.
It was just cool.
I was like reading andeverything was coming to life.
I don't know if that's everhappened to you, but that it's
pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
The synchronicity, that's what Jung calls it.
No-transcript, you're justtalking about it.

(24:49):
Yesterday you have a run-in ofsomeone you dreamt about and all
these things add an event, andwhat an individual will want to
do after that is produce meaningto it.
This is your world, this is thelimited stimuli we all get.
Of course we're going to try tomake sense of it all becoming
one full story and for somepeople this, could you know,

(25:12):
it's really profound.
It'll change the direction oftheir lives and how they relate
to the world.
So there's a whole kind oflittle mini philosophy on
synchronicity.
But I think addicts in earlyrecovery, late recovery, or
start making connections veryloosely to things, and then I

(25:34):
think a mistake, especially inearly recovery, could be that
it's a prompt for a behavior ora consideration of an action
that you're not going to tellsomeone else.
Okay, that's when you get wild.
Oh, this means I should buythis purse for my entire
paycheck.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Don't you see all the connections?

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
So how does Berlin end?

Speaker 2 (26:03):
We lose the last game in the German football league
playoffs and then I go homeearly.
I was ready to go.
I think I was like, okay, Ineed to get out of here, I need
to go back home.
And there's some reason.

(26:23):
I just felt that way Because Idid a lot.
I was like worn out.
I was worn out man.
So I go back home, you know, Isee my family.
I'm like, oh shit, this is reallife.
Now, you know, I'm trying toget back to no celebration of
the european league.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
In the d block there's celebration.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
There's a.
There's celebration, they'rewelcoming me back, but, you know
, like a little party, save thefamily, um, but my mom's like
you gotta get a job.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, here comes the hammer, um, but she's right.
Um, I tried to get to play overin italy, sweden at the time,
but that wasn't working, so Iclosed, I closed that, that door

(27:04):
, that path.
I tried to coach over theredidn't work out.
But uh, and then I got a job atups in the industrial park in a
cubicle.
Uh, accounts receivable.
I was miserable, I was, I, I dothe uh.
The analogy of the mrincredible when you know his

(27:25):
career is over with thesuperheroes and he's in the
cubicle and the guy comes in andjust keeps on asking questions.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
I was literally, I felt, I could feel that To go
from European League Berlin MDMAclub scenes, feeling a really
uncommon path to a lifestyle ofbeing able to use sports into
adulthood.
That's a, you know,semi-professional career to go

(27:54):
there to tailor or dumb, I mean,that's that's.
It's a hard reality that maybeyou can't wake up to.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
It was very yeah, and then a cubicle too.
It was like it was.
It was very, very difficult.
I was there for about four orfive years?

Speaker 1 (28:16):
That's pretty long for you to grind that out.
What does addiction do andwhere is it at then to soothe
this place in life that youdon't want to be?

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Well, I'll tell you what I did during this period.
I was in a pretty longrelationship.
I thought I was going toactually marry this woman.
Things didn't work out.
I started drinking heavilydrugs and, to be honest with you
, it starts to crack.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, which is how did that happen?
Because that's a big leap,especially your background and
the culture you come from.
How do you get comfortablesmoking crack, and with two?
Because it's not historically asocial drug, but you have to be
introduced to it.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah, well, I was doing after relationship that
kind of hurt.
So you know, what do we do asaddicts, alcoholics, you know,
let's drink and do drugs.
That'll make me feel so muchbetter.
I was at a friend's house itwas probably a trap house.
I felt comfortable there, youknow but he was, he was like

(29:32):
hiding, he kept on going, likeno, he wasn't doing bumps, he
was smoking out of something andI go what are?

Speaker 1 (29:38):
you doing.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
He's like don't worry about it.
He did this to me numeroustimes because he knew my
personality and finally he justgave in because I think, like a
couple months later he broke upwith his girlfriend and I tried
it and for a good, I would say,two years.

(29:59):
I was chasing that, thatfeeling it was, it is.
It is insane.
I don't wish that on any of my.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
it is, it's scary, it's a miserable drug,
especially you having theexperience of the social aspect
that addicts can find in, notonly clubs, concerts, even in
fandom fish, the grateful dead.
There's this more social,romantic, undefined culture that

(30:30):
you think you're connected to.
To go from there to crack crackis insidious, um, and it's so
non-social it really wakes upyour bare primal at least this,
these instincts.
I don't even want to call themprimates, because primates don't
act this way.

(30:51):
This obsessive, but what itdoes?
It increases your reactionalmost to just primal needs not
being met.
You can't speak.
You could only desire.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
It's a real nightmare .
Oh, it's a huge nightmare.
How I describe it is you know.
Oh, it's a huge nightmare, it'sa.
Well, how I describe it is, youknow, I'm trying to go to work.
I'm not at UPS at the time, Iwas at Dempsey's for a hot
minute but then I'm in the salesand I'm looking out the window
and, like you've seen the movieghost, I'm assuming the black
creatures that come out at night.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Oh yeah, the shadow people.
The shadow people come out.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, shadow people.
I mean, that was a nightmarefor me, man, it really was.
And at this time I'm comparingmyself how come I don't have
this?
Going back to my recovery now,looking back on it, I'm still
comparing.
How come I don't have a girl?
How come I don't have a nicecar?

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Why do I only have shadow people?
I only have my shadow people,so people are my shadow people.
Anyone who hasn't smoked, crackor done cocaine at a psychotic
three-day level.
Shadow people are a commonoccurrence of what would be
cocaine psychosis and it startsto take.
It begins in the peripheralvision, where you'll see things
moving, and then they canmanifest into more elaborate

(32:14):
hallucinations where there'sshadow people, whisperings of
voices, sounds behind walls.
It's really all the symptoms ofpsychosis, but there's a
distinct flavor to it withcocaine because it's driven by
paranoia and an unseen kind ofsinister group or single person

(32:38):
after you, and that's shadowpeople.
Yum.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
I'm telling you it's insane and looking back on it
I'm like, oh, I'm trying to likedo better in my life.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
This is not the thing .
The description you said,looking out the window and
seeing the show, you know what'sso tormentive about cocaine, uh
, and specifically say crack, uh, having a relationship with
crack is that free will or anyof your broad or limited or

(33:09):
unexamined definitions of freewill, is non-existent, and what
I mean by that is reallyspecific.
To just keep this conversationon free will lasered in, you
have an eighth of a second torespond to say an obsession for
cocaine.
And what does that mean?
You have an obsession.

(33:29):
It's either cognition orsomething in your environment,
the room.
A word brings us thestimulation to need or want to
use the drug when you're notusing it.
And that's not thought, that'snot precognition, that's not a
choice.
That's where addiction reallybecomes powerful and you have an
eighth of a second to respondto that stimulus.

(33:51):
That's an obsession.
To say I want a different plan,that's not any reasonable amount
of time to make a decisionbefore you're making a plan and
behaviors are being driven bythis emotion, almost a fear and
excitement to get the drugCoupled with that, like you
don't have space to think.
What happens is the receptorsthat are waiting.

(34:17):
The reward dopamine rewardsystem that wants this drug are
being primed as if it's coming,and high the high from cocaine
already feels like it's being,and a high the high from
cocaine's already feel it feelslike it's being experienced
without the drug.
Tell me where free will is inthat and you're fucking nuts.

(34:37):
To look at anyone who'saddicted to cocaine and not
wonder why, why are they doingthis?
You don't understand whythey're doing this is beyond.
This is like trying to controlyour heartbeat or your hair
growing.
At this point for thatindividual it's impossible, yeah
impossible.
Um, what a shitty, shitty drugoh, it's, I was.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Uh, yeah, I was.
I should have been in astraight jacket yeah, easily
yeah, it's uh.
But you know what though?
Um, okay, like I said, lookingback, um to like to continue
that story in the beginning,though I'm gonna go back, so
just keep me there.
Like I I did it.
I just popped up to me like Ihad a suicide letter.

(35:22):
My mom found like I was, like Iwas hurt from that divorce.
But you know, coming back andlooking what I've been through,
I don't think I would be theperson I am today without going
all through that.
So obviously nobody wants to goand see shadow people all day,
you know, you know.
But that's something I had togo through.
But that's life, man, I chosethat.

(35:42):
I was lost, I was, I didn't, Ididn't feel like I belonged.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Did you choose it or did you kind of just fall into
it, like it's hard to separatethe idea.
How about I needed it?
Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Well, let's bounce.
When's the first time there'san intervention on this kind of,

(36:09):
I think, a very standard modelof the last generation that goes
from alcohol pot grows intonarcotics, maybe some
psychedelic use?
When is there an interventionthat this is Mike's problem?
It's not that he doesn't wantto get a job, he doesn't know
where to play football.
The problem now is addiction.

(36:30):
When did you get squarelyconfronted with that the first
time and by whom?

Speaker 2 (36:39):
I was on that road for a little while.
I tried to go into the rooms ofAA and my mom was really rooms,
um of AA and my mom was, uh,really, really wanted me to get
some help.
Um, and I was in a batch.
Obviously, you know doingcocaine and that road and you

(37:00):
know smoking it.
Um, I went on a really reallydark path hanging out with
people that I shouldn't behanging out with and I just
wanted to have enough.
So I the biggest, I guess, myfirst go around I went to
Marworth because I went to mymom's safe and I stole $20,000

(37:26):
from her safe and then I think Iwas telling him I went to my
buddy's house and told him I wonall this money on a slot
machine and he was like there'sno way he's trying to get me to
go to the Philippines, my buddythat I've been partying with for
the last 15 years.
I'm like, thinking back now, ifI went to the Philippines, I

(37:46):
wouldn't be here.
That money would have beenblown in.
Thinking back now, if I went tothe Philippines, I wouldn't be
here.
Oh, you're headed for a pike.
Yeah, that money would havebeen blown in like a day.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
And I think it's over half of the population is
Islamic.
Now You're going to be runningaround smoking crack.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Yeah, I can't imagine Underneath like a I don't know
a tree.
But yeah, then I was like, okay, obviously I can't go to the
Philippines, let me party for alittle bit.
I had to Florida.
I was like all these ideas, butthen, like I would lose my job,
my brother called me.

(38:22):
I remember my brother callingme on my way when I was going to
Florida and he's like what youknow, what are you doing?
I was like to Florida and he'slike what are you doing?
I was like to be honest withyou.
I'm just fucking lost man, I'mlost, I'm hurt, I'm fucking sick
of it.
I didn't want to live again.
I had that feeling again.
I considered myself a fuck-upat the time.

(38:45):
But then I stopped in Atlantapart party that weekend came
home and then I went to Marworthand uh I was like, okay, let me
get some help.
And then I was like, okay,maybe I won't do cocaine anymore

(39:06):
, let's get back to the race.
And that's what I did.
To have everyone shut up.
I was good for a little whileand uh didn't start going back
to some shows Brooklyn Mirage,florida, okeechobee there's like
88,000 people.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
What does that do for you to be in a show like that?
Feel connected with what?
What pain of your life woulddisappear in those moments?

Speaker 2 (39:27):
to be connected into the show there's the sense of
belonging, I think, and like notfeeling judged.
Yeah, I guess, even though I'mmaking these up in my head,
being judged, does that makesense.
Yeah, I'm being like therumination, like I, just I'm not
and the connection.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Connection's powerful .
I've gone to plenty of shows inBrooklyn, or even just say the
experience of going to CampBisco.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
I don't have any of the Disco Biscuits music, nor
would I even listen to it in mycar, but this feeling that I'm
on the mountain with 15,000people and we know why we're
there, you know we're the fringe, yeah, thanks.
That's a powerful feeling to bearound that many people.

(40:15):
So these moments when you'renot experiencing that, you're
also experiencing deep despair.
Where you said lost Livingseems exhausting.
Is this intensified when you'resober, like your sober mind?
You said lost living seemsexhausting.
Is this intensified when you'resober, like your?

Speaker 2 (40:34):
sober mind.
Oh yeah, I don't want to.
I don't want to see, I don'twant to see anybody.
That whole I'm isolated, I'mnot, I'm not leaving my place.
Let me.
I don't care if I had to get apizza.
That's $54.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah, Just not to leave the house.
I just want to leave the house.
The terror of seeing someonewhat if they ask?
You how you're doing?
What are you up to?
What's your problem?
I was going to smoke crack inthe Philippines last month, but
that plan fell through.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
With the rehab I started going to the shows again
.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
No, I I it's uh, it's so.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
And the biggest thing , sergeant, the biggest thing
for me is that during this time,I'm like, well, I have to stop
this, though.
This is not reality, though,and back of my mind, going
through the end of my run, thisrecent run, and knowing that I'm
being, my soul is being suckedout from making these other

(41:38):
people happy that I'm there.
I'm not going to lie, I was forthe most part.
I was a pretty good party guy,I guess, to be around it's
pretty funny, I would say.
My eyes maybe not in others,but I just knew that, like at
the end of this run, I was justlike I'm exhausted.
I really don't want to do thisanymore.

(42:00):
I'm, you know my family's notin the picture.
Uh, my brother's starting notto really talk to me.
He's putting up with me.
He knows something's wrong.
Uh, you know my dad's in theroom, my dad's in the rooms now,
at this time.
How about the?

Speaker 1 (42:16):
and the theft of the money.
Is this still?
It's just an open sore thatkeeps you away from your family.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, not going to like family events, like
birthdays and stuff.
It's just like I'm such.
I'm like disgusted with myselfat the same time, but still
trying to live this life.
Yeah, and I just know that I'mkilling my family and that I'm
killing my family and I'mkilling myself.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
When do you take the risk to fully commit all in this
last time that you enteredBrookdale?
Which when was that?

Speaker 2 (42:48):
That was November 15th is my sobriety date.
Wow that flew by.
Yeah, eight months with youguys, right.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Eight months.
It's going to be forever.
November I know my mom calledyou.
I know I spoke with you brieflybefore I was down in
Stroudsburg.
November, right before mybrother's birthday and
Thanksgiving.
So I had a sixth seventhwhatever.
Right before my brother'sbirthday and Thanksgiving.

(43:23):
So I had a sixth seventhwhatever.
But I was down in Stroudsburg.
I was talking to a girl.
She was coming back.
Now we've been hanging out forover a couple months now.
We just saw Stevie Nicks theweekend before.
She was in Miami flying in.
I was going to meet her.
I stopped.
I got the times mixed up, right.
I just told her that she'sright and it was my fault, even

(43:45):
though I have the text.
But anyways, defeats thepurpose.
I stop and get a, a drink.
I'm doing MMA, I'm doingcocaine at the time at this bar
right by her place.
She gets back.
I go and meet her and she shelocks herself in her in her

(44:11):
apartment, which she did thatabout a handful of times since I
met her, which is crazy.
It's crazy, but it happens.
So we go down to the a handfulof times since I met her, which
it's great, it's crazy, Um, butit happens, it happens.
But uh, so we go down to thehospital she was a nurse.
We go down the hospital, get aspare key and they don't have it
.
So this whole time I didn'tknow that the next call, this

(44:33):
person had a spare key and itwas a cop.
Okay, I don't know what thehell happened to me, but I was
like you, a cop has a key toyour apartment.
I mean, you know, I have somestuff on me Like I could get in
trouble.
All this stuff.
It was like Whoa huge red flag.
So we waited across the street,not the bar where I had dinner

(44:56):
that night, but we were partyingand stuff, Live band playing.
The band was really good, eventhough I can't remember the
music.
I guess I was dancing.
But I go to the bathroom andthen when I'm coming out she's
gone and I don't know.
I guess she's over at herapartment.
I go back over there.

(45:17):
I think I got kicked out of thebar, Actually, because I was
dancing too aggressively.
I would say Aggressive dancing.
Aggressive dancing, Justjumping up and around and I
don't know my body weight at thetime.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
And it's Paul Simons on the jukebox and you're
jumping up and down, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
There's another tone going through my brain, another
DJ.
So I cross the street, goupstairs the door's open,
cracked open.
Going up the steps I turn in, Iwalk into the apartment and the
cop's there.
I totally go in psychosis forprobably 10 minutes.
I wake up going downstairs.

(45:58):
I'm like where am I leaving?
She's like, yeah, I'm nothandcuffed at the time and I go
downstairs and no one was hurt.
But apparently it was likethrowing TVs and shit.
He says I saw this cop man.
I don't know I have a problemwith authority.
But then I walked down thesteps.
He's like yeah, we're justgoing to go home.

(46:20):
As soon as I get out the doorI'm getting handcuffed and I'm
flipping out all the time and Iget all these charges of felony
assault.
You know, if I hit a cop theywould know.
This guy was 6'4".
He said I elbowed him in theface, you know.
But anyways, but they weretaunting me this whole time I'm
in this holding cell.
I just remember how angry I was.

(46:42):
I was so angry they weretaunting me.
I remember telling them I waslike why don't you guys come in
here, keep my handcuffs on andall three of you come in here?
I was just ready.
I was.
I was at that point I don'tknow if I should say this on
here, but I was ready to killthem.
That's how angry I was.
I had to stay in Monroe Countythat weekend.

(47:04):
Being in there was aneye-opening experience for me,
being there the whole weekend.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Are those cops on your men's list whole weekend?

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Are those cops on your men's list?
You know what my sponsor mademe take two dozen donuts at the
Burrow of Dunmore?
Yeah, because he knows.
That's great, he's kind of thesame way too.
That's a humiliating experience, but man, I guess that's a good
point.
I totally try to block thatwhole incident out of my life.

(47:39):
It's a tough job, yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
But you know, you went to Brookdale then.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, then I went to Brookdale and I was still angry
a little bit.
I went there sober, but I wasstill like angry.
And then Larry drove you, right, no, larry drove me home.
Drove you home, so my uncle, myuncle, uh, and dropped me off,
uh, so I got to talk to you overthe phone, yeah, before I went

(48:08):
to court.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yes, just you know.
This episode is kind of justtalking about the whole
experience from coming here andgraduating.
Yeah, and we had.
I didn't have a directrelationship with you but I knew
you were family.
I remember screening anddistinctly telling you here

(48:29):
isn't about compliance, it'sabout transformation, Like you
could be complying here and notdoing well and you've got to see
a bunch of people not only getbetter here, some other people,
they'd probably be comfortableat another place and we helped

(48:52):
do that.
You came here, you were ready,but you seemed confused about a
lot of ideas of what the problemwas like any of us initially.
but how would you say?
We at least provided the space,because the transformation that
happened to you, um, happenedfrom you becoming empowered.
It wasn't, it wasn't us.
We're just putting a settogether for people.

(49:14):
Yeah, you had a realtransformation here.
Why do you think that happened?
How?

Speaker 2 (49:22):
did that start?
That sounds cliche, but man, Iliterally from going from
Brookdale and the transition tolike you're doing aftercare.
I'm like whatever you want meto do, because you know what, I
have the fellowship house linedup.
I still have some legalproblems, but I surrender.
Tell me what I need to dobecause my way is not helping.

(49:45):
But as soon as I got to thefellowship house I was like oh,
they got meditation.
Let's, let's, let's go on thispath, because during my whole
addiction, I'm like I was, Ifelt like I was on a spiritual
journey, but I would block itout and then do good things, but
just doing the uncomfortablework and going to work, coming

(50:08):
to IOP, going to group, going tomeetings, doing the 90-90.
I don't know, I just changed mywhole.
I didn't know.
I just I just changed my whole.
I didn't change everything.
You know, joe, I had to changemy friends.
I had changed, you know, like Isaid, I don't have social media
.
I had changed the people whoI'm hanging out with, because

(50:32):
obviously it's, it's not working.
And now I hang out with peoplethat are, you know, plugged in
this program.
I try to talk to somebody everyday, listening.
I remember one of my favorite Ihad a really hard time when
people talk is, you know, one ofthe best lessons I had, uh,

(50:53):
here was call, call somebody andjust ask them a bunch of
questions, and I did that.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
It was your homework one week, wasn't it?
It was the homework, it was thehomework.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
I was like oh, this should be easy.
It wasn't fucking easy.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
No, you can't say anything but questions.
I remember that homework.
You have to call someone andonly ask them questions.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yes, yes, about their life.
Yeah, I'm like, oh, but now I'mlike sitting pausing, being
able to react, not just reallydigest it.
I'm like, oh, my thought, Idon't have to hold on to this,
it's just a thought and just letit, let it pass by.
I'm not going to hold on tothis, uh, but I've been through

(51:31):
a lot.
You know, work is a hugeemotion roller coaster that's
eased out.
But, um, yeah, I'm verythankful for larry, though he
gave me right.
Let me just say larry gave me a, uh, a ride home.
I had a sponsor that first day,tony m, so tony ends up great
so let's talk about that.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
The guys that do well .
Here there's, there's common um, universal themes and things
being accomplished.
They come to group Not thatthat it's an option, we'll weed
that out.
The first two weeks, thelectures they're connecting, if
not with one or all, they'refinding a counselor that they're

(52:11):
connecting with On their owntime.
If you can't find a sponsor, weput them together.
If 12 steps is the path and itis for the majority of people in
our house, they're working thesteps and they're beginning
right away.
You got to experience that here.
You took what we call fourthstep, evaluating an inventory

(52:35):
not only of all yourrelationships, all the people
you may have harmed, all of yourfears.
You get to confront these.
You do it with another personand then approach a meditation
of what can this mean?
How can I look at the truth ofmy story objectively and think,
okay, there doesn't have to beshame involved, I can move

(52:56):
forward by making amends.
You started some serious amendshere.
What did that process?
I know how liberating the fifthstep was for you.
How's the ongoing process ofthe ninth step?
Because you graduate heretonight and you've started a lot
of your amends and you'vecommitted to service already.

(53:17):
You are our house captain thelast two months, which requires
you to keep order in the house.
You set the standard of what aroom looks like, how to take
care of the new guy.
What was so transformativeabout making amends?

Speaker 2 (53:42):
What was so transformative about making
amends Just by a lot of like, myamends with, like, my parents,
my family, was, you know, action.
You know, because I've saidthis, when we do the 11th step,
or the 10th to 11th step for thepeople that you know if there's
an argument.
There's 10 and 11 in there,Page 86.
We do it every night at thehouse.

(54:02):
You know, and sometimes I don'tdo it every night, but I
remember the one night.
Actions speak louder than words.
You know for me I have to.
You know if I'm putting it down, I got to take action.
I got to show them.
You know what I'm doing becauseif I don't stay connected into

(54:23):
this and with the amends man,sometimes, no, I don't want to
cut the grass, sometimes I don'twant to, but that's me.
Now I'm taking my will back.
Helping others is the key for mein my recovery and doing the
next right thing is what I'mgetting out of it.
But the amends part I know myfamily knows I'm sorry and I've

(54:53):
said this to them many times.
I apologize for my actions.
I'm sorry for hurting you orscaring you in any direction,
but I was, I was lost.
I was so lost and I wouldn't.
With this program if anybody islistening the 12 steps I was so
against it.
I didn't believe in them, but Ineeded change.

(55:15):
So I started doing them and Ijust know that my mind is still
changing my thought process.
But I know without them Iwouldn't be alive today.
I could have easily changed myattitude, changed my choices.
But once I start thinking aboutme, I know that's when the

(55:39):
other guy is starting to getawake.
Werewolf, the werewolf ofberlin.
Hope that makes sense thatmakes sense determined werewolf
I'm.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
I'm an addict, so I could go from like left field to
the outer space fast well, wehave been very proud, uh, of you
here and and I think one of thequestions I may I want to ask
you is you've we have an averageof three to eight months stays

(56:08):
here, um, where people don'tbecome too dependent on
fellowship house but get toempower their own life and where
they want to go, and I hopewe've been a help to you,
because you've been a great helpto many of the young guys and
older guys here of a realcommunity, and a lot of the lift

(56:29):
is you guys get each otherbetter when it's off hours
clinical hours in the residence,on our trips, on our hikes, on
our retreats.
What would you like to see overthe next year?
Us improve here?
Fellowship House that you thinkyou know you'd like or maybe
like to see more of that wastransformative for you and the

(56:52):
guys around you.
That did just as well.
What do you think is happeningthat I should improve?

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Well, thank you because you guys have been great
to me.
Like I said, you're like a bigbrother.
I never had man Tim's great,the counselor's great, the
meditation.
We got to get a spot for themeditation man.
I don't know if it's out in thebackyard here at the elephant
or maybe over my new apartmentright around the corner.
Yeah, i'm't know if it's out inthe backyard here at the
elephant and maybe over my newapartment right around the
corner.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Yeah, I'm not moving too far.
Yeah, we, we, we have a plan inplace for the fall.
We're going to switch.
We're going to switch gears andlocate new settings.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Yeah, I think the meditation is pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
And would you come back and lead some of them?

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Absolutely I, some of them, absolutely I.
You know I had to go in there acouple of times but, like you
know, I was like whatever Isurrender, I'm new, new
experience.
It's a that's getting out of mycomfort zone, though.
Yeah, you know saying yes.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
And speaking to that, last eight months of your life,
have you had?
You've had anxiety, you've haddepression, you had some
disappointments and you know, um, you had some disappointments
and you have other plans thatare going to take a little time
to create and then take someaction on.
I know we've talked about them,but how does it feel to know
you can have anxiety, you can bedepressed, you can have grief,

(58:13):
you can have disappointment, andyour initial reaction presently
isn't to use drugs?

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Yeah, to go run and cement them down to the basement
, like, oh, this is normal, Iknow I deal with them by talking
to others and talking, callingmy sponsor, calling.
I call my dad and that's amiracle and a half that we're
both in the rooms.
I mean he could tell his story,but we actually heard it.

(58:39):
Yeah, his story at thefellowship at that meeting on
Friday nights at 7 pm.
You know that's a miracle initself and you know that's all I
wanted my whole life.
But yeah, man, I'm just takingone day at a time.
Nine months will be the 15th ofthis month, birthday is the
22nd.
I'll be 38, man, but yeah, Ikind of lost the question.

(59:06):
What was the question?

Speaker 1 (59:07):
It's like the I don't even remember.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
I know.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
This is what happens sometimes.
But you guys are a fellowshiphouse.
It's one thing to have just anaddress, a property.
Then you add a really goodcomponent good counselors, a
good program, a really clean,distinct clinical phases of guys

(59:32):
where you want to be.
After month one or two it waspicture perfect.
Not because of us, it wasbecause your desire to get sober
started.
We gave you a place, I think,where that grew far larger and
faster than your ability to quitand return to addiction.

(59:54):
That's all I feel we're kind ofdoing.
We're making the space your,your internal motivation took
over and it was beautiful to seea reconnection to not only your
family, your father, yourmother, your brothers, your real
friends, friends from childhood.
The way you approached work,the way you approached things

(01:00:18):
you did not want to do and Idon't think perceivably you'll
continue to have to do sometimein the future but the way you
can endure stress now that allhappened, just by the numbers it
was, I couldn't believe thatthat was the space.
It's just kind of a processthat takes place if you have the
right space.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Absolutely yeah, and and, like we just spoke about,
to eight months.
I, it seems like it was eightdays or like eight weeks, not
even eight months, though, man,it was like it was uh, it went
by fast, but it's uh.
You know, I'm always going tobe involved, if you like.
I said, if you ever need me foranything.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
I mean, I got your back, no matter what.
That's how I look at it.
New guys will need you and I Icount on you as a friend.
Yeah and um, you're a friend inrecovery now um and the you and
the multiple graduates thathave left this year I I look at
as equals, as friends, becauseyou're men, You're sane, you're

(01:01:20):
sober and you're responsible andyou got your guts back.
You know where you belong.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Yeah, I feel like I finally belong.
That's a good word Free, youknow.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
I'm looking forward to tonight your coin out, I'm
glad you popped on the podcast.
Yeah, it was a pleasure to haveyou.
Yeah, love you popped on thepodcast.
Yeah, it was a pleasure to haveyou.
Yeah love you, man Appreciateyou.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
See you, man.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
I'd like to thank you for listening to another
episode of All Better.
You can find us on allbetterfmor listen to us on Apple
Podcasts, Spotify, GooglePodcasts, Stitcher, iHeartRadio
and Alexa.
Special thanks to our producer,John Edwards, and engineering
company 570 Drone.

(01:02:11):
Please like or subscribe to uson YouTube, Facebook, Instagram
or Twitter and, if you're not,on social media, you're awesome.
Looking forward to seeing youagain.
And remember, just becauseyou're sober doesn't mean you're
right.
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know
Dateline NBC

Dateline NBC

Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.