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September 10, 2024 65 mins

Imagine growing up in a high-pressure environment, feeling the weight of fitting in while battling personal demons. Joey C from Westchester, Pennsylvania, courageously opens up about his tumultuous journey through addiction and recovery. Adopted shortly after birth and discovering this life-altering fact at age 11, Joey shares how these formative experiences shaped his struggles. Tune in as we discuss his painful school years, marked by bullying and a desperate need to fit in, and how a move to Scranton for a partial hospitalization program became the catalyst for his recovery.

What happens when the pressure to belong in a high socioeconomic circle leads to substance abuse? Joey's story paints a vivid picture of how seeking acceptance through drugs spiraled into addiction, affecting his relationships, academic performance, and social life. A wake-up call came when an anonymous tip led to school suspension, forcing Joey to confront the severity of his situation. Hear his raw reflections on the long-term impacts of his choices and the isolation from former friends, providing a sobering insight into the cost of addiction.

Journey with us as we explore the dangers of high-potency THC and how Joey's time in rehab marked a turning point. Despite initial resistance, the unwavering support from peers convinced him to stay and ultimately succeed in the program. We highlight the importance of community and personal

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and thanks again for listening to another
episode of All Better.
I'm your host, joe Van Wee.
Today's guest is Joey C fromWestchester Pennsylvania, joey's
alumni of Fellowship House.
Joey came on today to tell ushis story of how he arrived in
Scranton, pennsylvania, for apartial hospitalization program,

(00:23):
which I am the CEO of.
I wanted Joey to come on, and sodid Joey, to discuss the
transformation that took placein his life and the empowerment
he found by being able to be ina town like Scranton that has a
prolific recovery community andfurthering the transformation

(00:46):
that began in inpatienttreatment.
We talk a little bit aboutJoey's history the emotions he
had during adolescence, up intocollege, what addiction did for
those emotions, what needs itmet and when it stopped working
emotions, what needs it met andwhen it stopped working and when
the consequences of hisaddiction made his life, the

(01:10):
quality of his life,dissatisfying and his goal was
impossible.
Now Joey is enrolled full-timeat Westchester University, he
transferring to a school inPennsylvania and we get to
discuss how that happened andhow recovery produced that.

(01:31):
Let's meet Joey C and we'rehere with Joey C, hello, joey
where are you from?

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I'm from Westchester, pennsylvania, but originally I
was born in Johnstown,pennsylvania.
Hello, joey, where are you from?
I'm?

Speaker 1 (01:50):
from Westchester, Pennsylvania, but originally I
was born in Johnstown,Pennsylvania.
And how did you end up inWestchester?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Did you do this by car or horse?
No, I was actually adopted, somy birth parents didn't really
have the ability to take care ofme, so they wanted a better
life for me, so I was adoptedwithin a week too.
Wow, it was a quick little spanof time.
When did you find out?

Speaker 1 (02:13):
and how?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
When did your parents let you know.
I remember I was sitting in thecar with my grandfather who's
now passed and my mom and we gotinto a simple topic about like
pregnancy and things like that.
I don't remember how we gotonto that topic.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
A simple topic of pregnancy.
Let's talk about somethingsimple for this car ride.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
I don't remember.
I just remember we got ontothat topic and I ended up
realizing like halfway throughmy mom was kind of like hinting
towards the fact that like shedidn't have me, okay, and I
asked a question.
I was like, so mom was kind oflike hinting towards the fact
that, like she didn't have me,okay, and I asked a question.
I was like so, mom, what areyou saying?
And she was like well, joe, Ithink this is a fine time to
tell you, but you're adopted.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Since we're having a simple conversation and, you
know, reserved for car rides,yeah, of course.
Well, since I've met you,you've been secure in speaking
about it and articulating, Didyou?
I'm curious did we talk aboutthis?
Did you meet other people thatwere approaching recovery or

(03:14):
suffering for substance usedisorder that were also adopted?

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, actually there's one person that I know
now, who was actually we're bothpretty familiar with, who's
adopted as well.
I never knew that said personwas adopted, but finding out
that they were and we actuallyhave a lot in common regarding
our adoption, yeah, I found thatto be pretty interesting and a
part of me thinks like maybe thefact that I was adopted and

(03:39):
learned at like a later age,maybe that had like an impact on
my addiction.
What age was it?
11.
, 11.
, 11.
I was older I was older and howmany siblings my birth family?
I have at least seven siblings.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, and when did you, did you reconnect with any
of them throughout the years?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, actually my half sister.
She just had a baby.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Oh, congrats.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, I got in contact with her while I was
still in active addiction, butabout six months ago, seven
months ago I got in contact withher and we were talking pretty
much daily and then we kind offell off for a little bit.
I think something happened withthe phone bill or something.
I don't really know, I'd haveto reread the text.

(04:21):
But we didn't talk for a fewmonths.
And then recently recently shejust reached out to me and she
was like hey, listen, like I'vebeen in, I've been dealing with
the baby a good bit, Like she'sexpected at any time, and ever
since then we've been prettymuch talking daily.
So so you were adopted.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yes, sir, by a beautiful, wonderful, caring
family and these are your ownreports of discussing them and
I've had the great fortune tomeet both of your parents and
get to know them.
And what was the first 11 yearslike?
How would you summarize yourexperience in Westchester?

Speaker 2 (05:02):
I mean, growing up school was a little bit of an
issue, not because I wasn'tintelligent, but because I
didn't feel like I fit in.
Um, I got bullied from a youngage um, ever since, from first
to sixth, seventh grade, I wasactually bullied.
Um.
I remember when I was in firstgrade I got picked on by the

(05:23):
older kids um, just because Iknew a lot of the kids in the
older grades and like some Idon't really know like what
exactly happened, but like Ijust like I kind of got on their
bad side, just cause I was likeI was a young kid, I was
self-centered, cocky, like I wasjust a cocky first grader.
It's hard to believe you likewhat.

(05:47):
But yeah, I got picked on when Iwas younger by the older kids,
um, but that that kind ofcontinued um, not necessarily by
the older kids, but kids of mygrade as the years progressed,
um second, third, fourth, fifthand sixth grade, um more second
and third, I kind of found mylittle clique of friends, um,
I'm not gonna throw any namesout there, of course, but did
find a little group of friends.
But then again, not going tothrow any names out there, of
course, but did find a littlegroup of friends, but then again
there was still some gossip andjudgment among them.

(06:11):
I'm curious.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Did you find the bonding with that fringe group,
this real connection?
Even after, say, hazing orbullying, you find a connection
with other people.
After, say, hazing or bullying,you find a connection with
other people.
Did that bond seem larger, moreimportant and more of a deeper
connection than the ones youfound at home, naturally, I

(06:36):
guess.
Would you compare them or werethey similar?

Speaker 2 (06:44):
They.
I think a part of me was hopingfor that deep connection and
was just trying to search for itin anybody I could and anybody
I could relate with at a youngage.
Because as I was growing up, Iwas dealing with if I can throw
this out there an alcoholicmother and it was causing
problems for stuff at home and Iwas trying to find, because
there wasn't always a connectionat home, because sometimes she

(07:06):
was unavailable, and this isbefore you knew about being
adopted.
Yeah, this was before that.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
And your mom presently is in years of
recovery.
Oh, countless now 10 plus yearsnow, and she's been an ultimate
force of producing yourrecovery.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
That connection, I couldn't say anything less.
One of the main reasons thatI'm currently sober is because
of my mom.
I'm not saying that becauseshe's the one keeping me sober,
but one of the people that hadmy back through everything and
continuously had support for mewas my mom.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
So I ask that question because there's a lot
of research in bonding andresearch around people with
addiction that especially meetit pre or during adolescence,
where the bonding outside of thehouse becomes far more crucial
and substantial and meaningfulthan something we wanted in the
house and that bond andfriendship is like born within

(08:00):
addiction.
So now you trust your group andwhat happens is the house house
you have to keep secrets.
Your real sincere self is nowwith this group, yeah, and
that's.
That's a real good breedingground for an addiction to begin
and flourish If real bondinghappens outside of the house.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um I I'd like to say that theaddiction kind of started when I
was around that age too.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, Tell me how that started.
This is the most remarkablestory I think you've ever told
me.
Where were you?
A Boy Scout meeting or a camp?
A weekend campground?
Dad, father and son.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, I was at a, so do you want me to get into that?

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, yeah.
So the first time you use, tellme, set the stage, what is
happening.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
So I remember we were at a father-son weekend.
It was all the guys in my gradeand all the guys' dads, and the
same thing happened for thefemales.
They went somewhere and theydid this stuff with their moms.
But when we went to um, we wereup in the Poconos and, uh, we
were putting condominiums andeach condominium had bottles of
bottles of alcohol.

(09:14):
Um, I don't remember exactlywhich ones there were, cause I
was in eighth grade, but Iremember that, just looking like
along the sink, there was justcountless bottles.
I remember that, just lookinglike along the sink, there was
just countless bottles.
And I remember there was talk alittle bit before we got to the
weekend about like what we weregoing to do, and one of the
guys in the group was like yo,like I have a cart, like I'm

(09:35):
going to bring it up, and I waslike all right, like I've never
done it before.
And he's like dude, it's great,like you're going to enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
What's a cart?
A's?
Uh, like a little weed thc pen.
Oh, it's my that old, I knowwhat a pen is a cart?
Yeah, it's like a weedcartridge.
You guys have taught me threenew adjectives in the last two
months I'm gas or fire, you'rechatting torch, and now a cart.
Okay, you're smoking a cart.
And this isn't something withwheels.
No, all right it's it.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
It's a little oval, with like a tip on the top and
you screw it into a pen and thepen cartridge.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, okay, now I now I follow.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So there was a little bit oftalk previous to us going down
to the trip and he was like I'mgoing to bring it up, like if
you want to use it, you can, andI was like, all, all right,
like I'll think about it, so weget there.
It's like the first night, Ithink.
I don't remember how many daysI was there, maybe two days.
Um, I don't remember if it wasthe first or second night that I
did, but first day I rememberwe went either whitewater

(10:34):
rafting or paintballing and itwas a great experience.
Oh yeah, it was the first daywe went whitewater rafting and,
um, I've been whitewater raftingbefore because I went to a camp
previous and during this campwe went to like I'm trying to
think of the rivers we went down.
I can't remember, but we wentdown countless rivers whitewater
rafting.

(10:55):
We went multiple places.
We did it countless times, soI'd probably been whitewater
rafting at this point six, seventimes.
It was probably the Delawareyeah, delaware River, yeah, that
was one of them Um think theSusquehanna too.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Um, but yeah, about this time I'd already gone six,
seven times Um and um.
We kind of just chilled thatnight, we didn't do too much, we
kind of played around a littlebit with the alcohol, but we
didn't really.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
When did you first realize you're getting
inebriated Like you're?
There was a change ofconsciousness.
Yeah, when did that happen?
Can you pinpoint it?

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, so I remember we put them in little Gatorade
bottles cause we had littleGatorade bottles in the fridge
and um, we just like emptied out.
We just drank like one of theGatorade bottles and put some
vodka in and mixed it withGatorade and it was.
It was awful, but I rememberlike a few sips in I started to
get like a head rush.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
And I was like what is this?
I was like is this how I feel,Like with this stuff, I like
this.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Welcome to Earth.
Yeah, you've now arrived on.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Earth, yeah.
But I remember I just got likea slight head buzz and I was
starting to feel like what isgoing on.
I was just like a littlecurious.
I don't know.
I don't really remember it was,it was, it was a while ago.
How about the?

Speaker 1 (12:08):
cartridge.
Now, did you get high the firsttime you smoked?
Um, I don't know if I got high,but you were.
You were willing to try it andyou're doing it.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
I was out of myself for sure, Cause looking back, I
actually have a picture in myphone of the first time I used
and, like I did look prettyscrewed up.
Now I don't really remember ifI got that screwed up, but like
I, if I remember correctly, I doremember being outside myself.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Fear of consequences or the culture you grew up in?
Um, why were you not afraid touse your dad's in proximity?
It's a father and son weekend.
Yeah, did you think it was alittle?

Speaker 2 (12:48):
acceptable?
I didn't, I guess I just waslike you didn't even consider it
.
There's really like there wasreally no thought behind it.
Besides, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
And how old are you now Now's 19.
So 19.
And so far you've had a historyof experiencing symptoms that
could be dissatisfying,disrupting to academics, the ADD
and the way you've alwaysdescribed them.
It's more of an emotionalcomponent of security.
Yeah, and this is the firsttime, 19, you get to get drunk

(13:22):
and smoke pot within that month.
What happened?
Why did it make sense to bedrunk or to smoke pot?
How would you describe what wasit giving?

Speaker 2 (13:34):
you.
It was giving me a sense ofsecurity.
It made me feel now this mightnot make sense to certain people
, but it made me feel likemyself.
Without it I kind of felt likeI didn't fit in.
I felt less lesser than otherpeople.
But when I had the drugs, whenI was on the drugs, I was like I
feel like the man, likeeverybody wants me because I

(13:54):
have these things, like I feellike I'm fitting in and people
actually want to be around me me.
Because, like before, like itwas always, like I always had
like a poor sense of selfbecause of getting bullied at a
young age, of being told Iwasn't who I I don't really know
, but like being kind of justjudged and just told that like

(14:17):
who I was wasn't okay, like eversince that point, like I never
really had a way to find myself,if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I always just felt like off.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
And your social circle and the schools you went
to what would you call maybe themajority of the in-group Would
they be was their social statusmore of a yuppie type higher
socioeconomics.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, most of the kids that I got involved with
during high school or middleschool were of a higher
socioeconomic status.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
And you've described in the past.
You felt like you almost had todo double to fit in.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah.
And this just rose up in you Imean, I'm still figuring this
out currently, um, as to why Iput on a facade and acted a
different way, but I always feltlike for me to do, or for me to
fit in.
I had to do better than otherpeople so I'd be recognized and
how would you describe alcohol?

Speaker 1 (15:21):
If you had to describe drugs or alcohol as a
solution to that exact feeling,was it helping initially?

Speaker 2 (15:29):
It felt like it was Like before consequences started
getting involved and my lifestarted to flip itself upside
down.
I really thought it was thesolution.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
So summarize afterwards.
You know, the end of highschool, the entry into college,
yeah, what is happening inregard to your addiction and how
do the consequences of it beginto take effect to your family,
your approach to school and yoursocial circle?

(16:00):
How would you summarize allthat?

Speaker 2 (16:03):
So, beginning of college, at that point I was in
a relationship and at the time Ithought it was healthy.
And my senior year.
I'll get into senior year alittle bit to give a preview of
what college looked like.
Senior year I was smoking a lot, drinking a lot, pretty much

(16:25):
every single day.
I was going to schoolinebriated.
I was going to practicesinebriated.
I was just getting screwed up.
And are people noticing this?
Yeah, I was getting told byfriends like yo listen, you're
showing up.
But at the same time, thepeople I hung around, they were
down for it.
They, the people that hungaround like they were down for
it, like they were justencouraging, like they were just
encouraging.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Joey, we noticed you're messed up and we're down
for it.
This is something we're downfor.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yes, yeah, in other words, they were.
They were open to doing it withme.
So I was.
I was around a group of guysthat like knew that it was
becoming a problem but didn't't,I guess, were in denial of the
fact that it was a problem, andthey just were just kind of
continuing to do it with me.
And a big part of the like, abig reason that they were
continuing to do it with me, isbecause I was kind of like

(17:14):
forcing it onto them, because,like I didn't want to feel like
I was the only one doing thestuff, like I didn't want to
feel like I had a problem.
That's why I didn't want to bein like denial about it.
So I was like all right, dude,like if I'm smoking, you got to
smoke, and they'd be like dude,like I don't really want to
smoke and I was like too bad.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
And did they carry their own weight or did you have
all the smoke?

Speaker 2 (17:33):
It was, it was not.
It was Santa Claus.
Sometimes I was, other times Iwas like, other times it was
pretty, even I wasn't.
I mean, it got to a point wheremy one old friend would smoke
constantly with me and he hadhis own stuff pretty regularly.
There was only a few people inthat little group that really

(17:55):
did that.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
How many of these people senior year were lifelong
friends or still friends, oryou've kind of grown apart, or
maybe you were only bonding,because you were treating some
deeper sense of not having aconnection with self or other
people without inebriation.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
There's maybe one kid from that group that I still
talk to today.
Okay, yeah, out of probably the25 kids, there's probably only
one.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
And how does senior year end and what's your plan?
What were you starting to stakeout as senior year started to
wind down, and how did theadults around you, including
your parents, when did theybegin noticing that this was
having an effect on the qualityof your life, your relationships
?

Speaker 2 (18:46):
So, as senior year was winding down, I actually got
suspended.
I had alcohol in my bag, I wascaught with a vape in school, so
I got suspended for about aweek.
I couldn't go to my senior prom.
I had to do like 40, 50 hoursof community service to even
graduate.
I still barely graduated Causeyou're flexing with that cart.

(19:08):
Yeah, dude, the cart waseverything?
I guess no, but it was bad.
I'm not going to really get toodetail-y about what happened,
but I did get, safe to say,which is an anonymous reporting
website where it's like more forpeople that are like about to
commit suicide and things aroundthat Say the website again,

(19:31):
safe to Say.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Safe to Say.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
And how is this website connected to your?

Speaker 2 (19:37):
community.
So it's like.
It's like an anonymous websitethat I think the police or other
people are involved in.
So when they get anonymous tipsabout things that are like
happening, like, let's say, likethere was going to be like a
shooting or something likesomeone would put a tip in and
the police would be notified andit would.
They would kind of like thepolice would come to the school
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
So and so someone in your case was afraid for your
mental health and that self-harmcould be an option.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
No, it was more about the drug use.
I got they saved to save me forhaving drugs in school, which
was a little bit left field.
Someone late, yeah yeah, andgot called down to the office.
They were like, listen, we gota, we got a tip.
We're not going to say by who,but do you have a vape on you?

(20:23):
And I was just honest.
I was like, yeah, I do.
So I gave them my vape.
They were like, all right,because of this.
We got to search your bags andI was like, all right, that's
fine, like I'm not worried aboutit.
Little did I know there waslittle bottles of Fireball in my
bag.
They were empty.
They were that St Patrick's day.
I was drinking on St Patrick'sday and I just threw those
bottles in my bag and kind offorgot about them because I

(20:44):
didn't want to throw them out inthe trash can.
So my parents didn't see them.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Let's go back to the admittance that you're like.
Yeah, I got to vape, becauseI've spent months around you now
and you've lied to me a handfulof times, but they're like
almost reactions, are withoutthought and they don't last
longer than 24 hours.
You hate lying?
Yeah, did you hate it thenhaving to hide or do anything

(21:08):
with?

Speaker 2 (21:09):
I've.
I've always like, deep down,I'm an honest kid.
Yeah, yes, you are.
But I, whenever I get put intoa position where I feel like I
need to fit in, or I feel like Ineed to do something to be
better than someone else orsomething around that, or even
like like I need to do somethingto be better than someone else
or something around that, oreven like I'm trying to think
about other situations, or justto save my own skin, like the
first instinct is to lie.

(21:30):
Yeah, just to be like oh no, Ididn't do that.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Or oh, like it's almost avoidance, yeah, but I
haven't seen that in a while.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
And that's exciting because that's real brass,
because you have a reallyconnected and intact sense of
self and I think you have a verypromising future.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
And aside, let's go back to.
We'll go back to the story.
So safe to say, you'reconfronted at school.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Now this is exposed.
Not only are you gettinginebriated every day, the school
administration knows you getsuspended, you lose the chance
to go to a prom, which is prettysubstantial, for you know the
standard memories and lifespanof an American male going to the
prom, all the things that wouldbe conventional memories for

(22:22):
someone.
Yeah, smoking pot now took thataway, which wouldn't be like
okay pot.
You're going to OD on pot, butit's making your life, it's
taking away quality of your life, which initially you described
was giving you something a senseof security, connection and
bonding.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, it got to a point where I didn't fully
realize it.
Maybe I didn't, maybe it's notthat I didn't realize.
It's maybe that I didn'trecognize the fact that it
actually was starting to tear meapart little by little, because
it's like everyone says, it's aslow progressive.
Well, sometimes it's not slow,but my addiction was slow.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
And let's talk about if you allow me to talk about
the pot for an instance, is thiscoming from medical marijuana
places?
Is it Street stuff?

Speaker 2 (23:11):
So we don't even know it probably had fentanyl in it,
who knows yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
I mean, let's dial it back, that it's not like a
fentanyl, let's just say it'sTHC.
You got cartridges that wereprobably ordered cheaply right.
And they're manufactured inChina.
I'm not trying to be a lunatic,but you know there was a wave
of them in 2018 to 2020 thatwere being correlated to severe

(23:39):
respiratory illness, be itpneumonia, double pneumonia,
getting vapor in the lungs.
Acetane was in the glass carts,the cartridges stored as a
lubricant.
Sometimes they were in tobaccoproducts and THC products.
Okay, and now you're inhalingthem.
No one's regulating these pens,unlike having a medical

(24:03):
marijuana card, say yeah, butboth of them have this distinct
status now that we've neverfaced in history of marijuana,
say, let's just talk about it.
In the last 100 years, THC isnow up to 400 times more potent.
This doesn't happen in thenatural order of the world.
No, this is engineered THC.

(24:25):
At these counts and you canrefer to a lot of research at
Stanford that high amount andtoxicity in the head, the
potency with either strandsativa or indica, or most of
them are just blended now iscreating, yeah, Like the early

(24:47):
feelings of psychosis.
Beyond just your marginalparanoia, what are people
thinking?
I'm taking in way too muchinformation socially.
It's bugging me out.
I gotta be you know.
I gotta hit an Xbox controlleror just zone out for a second
and it's taking all this datainto your brain that a sober

(25:08):
mind knows how to mute and edit.
So life is just tolerable.
You could just pay attention towhat's relevant.
Yeah, so you could be afunctional human mind being
stoned.
There's a quality with that highamount of THC that you now
can't edit, that naturallyYou're taking in hypersensitive
information of people's eyecontact, their body language and

(25:30):
if you have addiction andtrauma, you're making yourself
the subject of the room, thisself-centeredness that comes
with that kind of pain.
So the insecurities yourinsecurities get wildly out of
control of being bugged out.
Yeah, this is increasing intosome dramatic effects.

(25:50):
The amount of ER visits in thelast three years related to THC
and presentations of psychosisare growing exponentially every
year because of the hypotesis.
So for a nerd alert, I justwanted to put that in because I
don't want to be square in thesense that marijuana I never

(26:11):
viewed my entire life as like adangerous drug.
For most people it's adangerous of why we would need
to use it clinically.
I would say that.
So it's not marijuana If anyonewas listening, in the sense of
the dirt weed we smoked in thenineties.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, I mean from experience.
I've seen carts with up to ahundred 105% THC.
Oh crazy, it's ridiculous andI'm like Holy, what is in these?

Speaker 1 (26:45):
My friend, this young guy he's dead now Great guy Met
him in AA.
He was on a relapse, stopped atmy house, was traveling cross
country.
Yeah, he drank a soda that hehad in his pack from Colorado or
some ungodly amount of THC, Idon't even know Just eat a jar
of acid at this point, like whatthe fuck man Like he drank that

(27:08):
.
20 minutes later he's vomitingin my landscaping.
Oh my God.
He was stoned for like over like30 hours.
I mean like incoherently high,holy shit, from a pot soda.
Yeah, I mean it was like, yeah,it was like hundreds of
milligrams, it's huge.
Like how could that even likeI've been that high from an

(27:28):
edible I'm not enjoying myself,I am.
No, I don't know if I'm thedrapes in the room, I don't know
what's going on.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, dude, I have a I've.
I had a story about um.
When I was in college, I took a1200 milligram edible.
Oh God, joey.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, why do you think you take the risk to go
that far, like so?
Not that you would OD, butwhere do you want to go?
What is the draw, this drivingforce that, okay, this is Joe
sober.
Yeah, joe, with 1200 milligrams.
Because with 1,200 milligrams?
Because there's something thatis being drawn for an addict.

(28:07):
That's when any drug.
Well, if I do 1,200, what doyou become?

Speaker 2 (28:14):
What are you looking for?
A zombie dude.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
So almost to stop the pain of being human.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
In a sense.
I mean, I just I loved being soout of myself that I had no
control.
Yeah, like I remember, I tookthe edible at 9 pm the night
before and I waited up until 12o'clock in the morning and it
didn't kick in, right.
So I go to bed.
I'm like all right.
It was just like my tolerancewas ridiculously high.
So I just thought, like mytolerance was so high that I

(28:41):
couldn't get high from theedible.
So I go to sleep and as soon asI wake up, dude, I put my feet
on the floor.
He kicks in it Like it rockedmy world.
Dude, I'm like it got to a pointwhere I was so like I was so
stoned that like my breathingwas manual oh yeah, that's awful
.
Yeah, and I was like I wasDon't forget to breathe now.
And I was looking everywhere.

(29:03):
I was like yo, is this personlooking at me?
Are they looking at how I'mwalking?
Am I walking the right way?
Like I was.
I was out of it, dude.
It was bad and I went to classon it and I remember it was.
It was, it was rough, it wasbad.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
During that time where, where we were ending in
and you're making this entryinto the summer pre-college,
emotionally, do you feelalienated now that you've been
exposed, or was there kind ofthis I don't know spectacle
around you getting caught withthat?
Were you proud of it?
Was it making your life moredifficult?
And where are your parents now?
Are the terms of living at homechanging that, going into your

(29:47):
freshman year?

Speaker 2 (29:48):
yeah.
So freshman year, um, I wasgetting caught pretty regularly,
um, when I was still at homebefore I went to the dorms and
it was just making life a littlebit of a living hell, um got my
car taken, phone taken, kind ofeverything was just being taken
away from me.
My parents were getting at thispoint.
They were like all right, likemaybe he's just.
I don't really know what wasgoing through their heads.
I can't really know that, butmy guess would be like all right

(30:11):
, maybe he's just experimentinga good bit, maybe he just likes
it.
I don't know.
But I don't know if theynecessarily thought I was like I
was at that level yet where Iwas like, oh, he needs help.
I don't think they were at thatlevel yet, but I think it was
getting to a point where theywere getting pretty concerned.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
They're seeing if they could squeeze this kind of
rut out of you with someconsequences, and we kind of do
know what's in their head now?

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Oh yeah, They've expressed this.
Yes, they have.
Yeah, but my parents weregetting concerned.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
What's your reaction to this do?
Are you drawing away from them?
Are?
Are you resentful?
Uh, is there.
Do you think this will end, oris it?
Is it confusing you?

Speaker 2 (30:53):
no, it was.
Uh, I was.
I was probably a littleresentful because I was like, oh
, they're getting in the way ofmy use, like da, da da, and I
also think, um, let me see wereany of your other friends
experiencing these consequencesin their houses?

Speaker 1 (31:06):
Not really.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I mean, there was very few kids who were getting
caught or were doing it asregularly as I was.
I was like kind of the odd oneout.
All right, yeah, you stoodapart.
Yeah, everyone was kind of likein their own little group of
like use, like they would onlyuse on weekends or they would
only use like on specialoccasions.
And I'm just over here gettingfried every single day.
All these borders have droppeddown for you yeah.

(31:27):
Completely just isolating in myroom, just getting high, going
to the gym, getting high, likeeverything I did.
I was high.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
What's this doing to your cognition?
Not your intellect, but yourability to command your
attention.
So you've gone throughadolescence where you were
experiencing symptoms of ADD notbeing able to direct attention
or find meaning because of otherstimuli is just demanding a

(31:56):
broad spotlight or lanternattention.
I would say when is it at now,going into college?
My cognition?
Yeah.
The ability to use executivefunction like complex one-year
planning.
Okay, pick your classes inAugust.
Yeah, well, it's now September.
Like, are you waiting forsomeone else to do this?

Speaker 2 (32:18):
I mean nowadays I'm able to take charge and do those
things.
After being sober for a littlewhile, I've started to get that
executive function back.
I've been able to take chargewith my classes.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
I'm almost done with all my classes now and that's a
semester you saved yeah, not yet, but when I finish it, let's
get to that.
I want to describe that becausethat's a huge layup.
I mean that's a big save.
That, because that's that's ahuge layup, I mean you, that's a
big save.
Oh, financially for yourparents and for your timeline to
have a full-bodied life.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah, because I I screwed up pretty hard in the uh
.
It wasn't necessarily thesecond semester that I was
screwing up, it was mainly thefirst.
The first was it was awful, uh,if I even had the chance to go
back and change it like I would,but I would hate it because I'd
hate it you did Well, yes, butI mean, this is how time works.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
You fixed it in the real world, yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, I mean, it's just like I'm grateful that that
period of my life is over.
Yeah, seriously, because it was.
It was getting to a point whereit was just a living hell.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
You're drinking excessively now and using pot.
Where are you emotionally whenyou're not drinking?
I'm emotionally numb.
And where are yourrelationships?
How would you describe thestability of your friendships,
your romantic relationships?
How much of your life have theytaken over?

Speaker 2 (33:45):
The romantic relationship they took over a
good bit.
Yeah, um, it's.
It's not necessarily a problemcurrently, but recently it was a
one major issue.
It was holding me backconsistently.
I wasn't able to, uh, to getpast that little, that little
divot in the ground of just likekind of pushing past that and
actually letting go.
And I keep seeing these thingson Instagram and Tik TOK and

(34:08):
everywhere.
It's like sometimes letting gois the actual best way to show
that person that you love themyou know, so like what do you
think that means?
I mean, if you really love thatperson, you wouldn't put them
through the pain that they'recurrently going through.
And I was putting mysignificant other through pain
and the same thing was going theother way around, and I mean I,

(34:29):
and no one calls you JoeyTikTok anymore here, how did you
enter treatment?

Speaker 1 (34:41):
What were the events and what converged before you
were sent to treatment?
Yeah, how did that happen?

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Okay, so let's see, college was in itself was a
whole episode of just screw upsand just, just, just just I
don't even know the word for itJust negative outcomes.
Everything was just negative.
I mean, there was, I guess Icould say, fun in quotations,
but it really wasn't fun lookinglike all it was was sex, drugs,

(35:09):
not going to class um robbingpeople.
Basically, I had guns pointedat me multiple times.
It was just like I was, my lifewas.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Were these other students with guns, yeah, or
were they outside?

Speaker 2 (35:24):
of the school.
They were outside of the school, but some of them were actual
students.
I would go over to their dorm.
One of the guys pulled a gun,put it to my forehead and said
listen, if you don't give me themoney and this isn't gang-
activity.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
These are just.
These are just kids, yeah, likePretty reckless stuff.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, really dangerous stuff.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
They were bringing guns into the dorms, Like it was
.
It was pretty frightening, dude.
Yeah Felt that my life was indanger a few times.
You know, and looking back onit, I'm just glad to be alive,
Because if I didn't pay up or ifI didn't get away with some of
the stuff, I got away with.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
I'd probably be in a lot more trouble now than I was,
and were these debts of druguse and gambling.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
No, no gambling, just drug use.
I never really got intogambling.
Actually, I don't even thinkI've ever gambled in my life.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
You know, you're just a finance major.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Measured.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Measured, measured gambling measured.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yes, ai will take care of that for all of us.
But, yeah, you said you wantedto talk about the how did how
did you?
How'd you go to treatment?
Yeah, so, like I said, collegewas a whole event of just
mishaps.
Um, my second semester, Iactually got sober between

(36:41):
December and February 26 ishit's 25th ish and, um, I were
relapsed pretty hard.
Well, actually, let me think itwas actually more December 21st
to February 17th Um, that wholeweek before I relapsed hard, I
was just I was drinking, but Iwasn't considering it a relapse
because drinking wasn'tcurrently my drug of choice, it

(37:04):
was weed.
So I was like, oh, I can drink,I just can't smoke.
Like California sober, but theopposite way.
You know what I mean.
And, um, I was just constantlydrinking.
My parents went off to Germanyat this time and I had the house
to myself for two weeks, right,yeah, and I was inviting girls
over, I was inviting people overto my house just getting
blackout drunk almost everynight.

(37:26):
And it got to a point where itwas February 26th, right, my
parents had one more day beforethey came back from Germany.
I think it was actually thelast day that they were in
Germany and I was currently.
I was still in the relationshipand I.
We got into an argument.
Sorry, my brain went blank fora second.

(37:51):
We got into an argument.
She decided to go out.
I was like, all right, ifyou're going out, I'm going out
Because I had already beendrinking.
So I was like all right, I'lljust go out, I'll party a little
bit, I'm not going to get toodrunk, I'm not going to drive
whatever.
So I go over to my boy's houseI'm putting that in buddy.

(38:19):
Um went over to his house, wegot, we pre-gamed the party, as
most teenagers do, pre-game theparty.
Um, and we were actuallyheading over into philly because
we were going to a frat atdrexel.
And um, um, they were like allright, like, because at the time
I one of my friends, had a realnice audi and my other friend
had a real nice infinity, right,so.
So I was like kind of the lowerend of those three.
So they're like all right, joey, you're driving.
And I was like, no, I'm notdriving.

(38:39):
They're like, well, we're nottaking the Audi, we're not
taking the infinity.
So I was like all right, fine,I'll drive, like I've done this
countless times before, likeI'll be fine, 30 packs.
And um, we get down into Drexeland we parked right in front of
the frat, like literally.
Like the door was here, the carwas right here, Like exactly,

(39:00):
well, the people can't see that,but um, literally it's just
directly in front of the fratand, um, we go in.
Party was pretty dead.
Um, it was mostly just like allguys.
There was really no girls.
And then about an hour into theparty, like 50 girls walked in
right and everyone was justgetting lit and they were all
cops, they were all fbi, yes, no, but uh, the party started

(39:27):
popping off a little bit.
Um, everyone was getting drunkand it was at this time when I
actually up and there was likehalfway through the party up
until like when it was boring,like I was sober, um, but as
soon as it started getting likepretty riled up in there and
everything, everyone was kind oflike dancing to music.
The music was blasting, likestimulus accelerates use.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
And um, my friend was like, all right, I'm gonna go
grab his beers.
And I was like, nah, I'm gooddude.
He was like I'm gonna grab youone.
So I was okay, so it grabs meone.
And I'm sitting there and I'mlooking at it and I was like, ah
, I got to drive tonight.
I was like, all right, I won'tget too screwed up tonight, I'll
just drink a little bit.
So I have one beer and I'm like, all right, I want another one,
right?
So one turns into two, twoturns into four, four turns into
eight, and I'm about screwed up.

(40:08):
It was not a good sight.
I don't really remember too muchof the party, but I do remember
at one point of the party westarted leaving and one of the
girls there was actually kind ofsick.
She had alcohol poisoning so Iwas taking care of her.
She was thrown up outside of mycar, all over my car, in my car

(40:31):
.
It was disgusting, dude.
And I was like, oh, you're good, just sit in my car because
it's warm, like it was.
I don't remember exactly whattime it was.
I think it was, um, yeah,february ish.
So it was kind of cold out.
But um, she was sitting in mycar with the heat and um,
eventually her friends came outand they're like all right,
we'll take her, we're taking herto the hospital.
So I was like all right, sothey take her to the hospital

(40:51):
and me and my boys leave.
And there's in my car, there'sthree boys and two girls.
I'm sitting in the front, oneof my boys is sitting in the
front, and then the two girlsare sitting in the back next to
each other and my boy's kind ofsitting on the side and I drive
to Widener University.
I drive to.
Where did I go?

(41:11):
I went to Widener, went backinto into philly, went back to
like so you're driving all over.
I drove two and a half hoursthat night an hour and a half
that night, yeah, and I'm about,I'm now I'm by myself, after I
drop all these people off and atthat time I got to my boy's
house and he's like yo, like ifyou want, you can stay here,
like you can stay the night,like you'll be fine, like just,

(41:32):
you've been driving a lot, I dondon't want you to like I don't
know, I don't want you toblackout and crash, and I was
like I'll be fine, dude, likeI've done this so many times,
I'm not going to blackout, likeI got this.
So I'm driving home, I'mprobably about five minutes
outside of my house and I'm onthe phone with the person I was
in the relationship with, justtalking, like trying to keep
myself awake, and I'm two turnsaway from my house and I black

(41:55):
out, straight blackout, and Iwake up.
I don't.
I don't remember anything of it, but I was out for three hours
just on the side of the road.
My car wasn't in park, it wasin drive and I was just somehow
stopped on the side of the road.
But from when I went outremember driving, I was on the
opposite side of the road when Iwoke up.

(42:16):
And I woke up and I kind of likepick my head up and I look at
the clock and it's five, 30 inthe morning and the last time
that I saw was two 30 and I waslike what happened?
Where am I?
And I like pick my head up veryslowly and I like it was an
instant Like as soon as I pickedmy head up, boom, just ran
straight into a concrete polegoing 60 miles an hour, um, ran

(42:39):
through a fence and totaled mycar.
Um, I didn't even realize whathappened at the time.
I was so drunk that, like Ididn't even think that what
happened happened.
I thought it was a dream.
So I drive home, but I was sodrunk that I took the long way
home instead of taking the oneturn to get to my house.
I took like a 15 minute, 15minute drive to get home instead

(43:01):
of a three minute drive.
So I finally get home.
I parked my car and I'm likeholy shit, like this is real.
Like I get out of the car and Ilook at it and I'm like holy
shit, like this is bad.
So I sent a picture to myparents and my parents are
freaking out and it's this wholething and I'm like, all right,
I got to go to bed.
So I go to bed, I wake up threehours later to someone walking
into my room making sure I'm notbleeding to death Cause, like

(43:22):
and this was a neighbor, thiswas a friend of my mom's from
the rooms and they come into thehouse, they come into my room.
They're like yo, are you good?
Like I wake up drunk and I'mlike, yeah, I'm fine, like I
don't know what happened lastnight, but like, yeah, I'm good.
And they were like, dude, yousmashed your car pretty good.
And I'm like, damn it, likethat actually happened.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
And when did treatment become the discussion?
How did this become the cleardirection of where you were
headed?

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yeah, After all that happened, after the cops came,
did their thing, gave me thecharges that I was given, it got
to a point where my parentswere like yo, you, you need help
.
And I was like no, I don't,like I can do this myself, Like
I got this.
So from February 27th, oh,you're right, joey.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yet again, darn it, damn it.
I'm so confused about you,sorry for cursing on the podcast
.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
You can curse, okay.
Okay, I just didn't know.
So between February 27th, 28thto March 20th, it was a constant
talk about treatment.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
I was just like guys, I got this, like I can do this.
Meanwhile I'm still isolatingin my room getting high like 24
seven, I'm not doing anything.
I'm not even going to the gym,like that's a major sign of when
, like I'm in active addiction,or when I'm about to be in
active addiction, I don't go tothe gym, like I'll just
completely, I'll say screw it tomy, to my physical and mental
health.
I'll just say whatever.
So it's about March 21st, I'dsay March 22nd, and I'm having a

(44:53):
therapy session and mytherapist goes listen, we can
get you in tomorrow.
I think that's what's the like,what the best idea is.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
And what was therapy producing then?

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Therapy at that point was just what was the goal?
I don't even know An activeaddiction, Like I was just lying
to my therapist.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
It's just a point of contact because of the worries
everyone's having, but youdidn't feel any kind of linear
goals you were trying to achievethere.
It was just was it to appease,like the?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
pressures that were coming, it was mostly to comply.
Plus, I enjoyed talking to mytherapist but at the same time,
like I wouldn't, I wouldn't getinto how deep my that like my
addiction actually was, like Iwasn't really talking about it
Was your therapist sharinginformation with your parents.
Yeah, Only if he would ask me,he'd be like yo listen, is it
cool if I share this informationwith mom and dad?

(45:44):
I'd be like yes, or I'd be likeno, just the good stuff.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Okay, so you're getting ready to go to treatment
.
How do you find the treatmentcenter, and which one?

Speaker 2 (46:01):
So I remember there was one night in specific it was
like a few days before thatwhole turnout with my therapist
and I come home from IOP, myop,and um, I look I walk in and my
dad's sitting in the front, likethe living room, with a
computer open, sitting on apedestal in front of him and

(46:22):
he's like joey, I want you tocome look at this.
So I'm like okay.
So I come look at it and itsays karen, you know, like the
karen treatment facility.
And I'm like, oh, what is this?
And he's like we think it's, wethink it's time you go to
treatment.
And I was like like, oh, dude,like nah, it's fine, like I'll
just go to sober living and I'llfigure it out.
Like cause it was, it was adiscussion between like rehab or
sober living, right Cause I waslike, all right, if I do sober

(46:44):
living for three months, likeI'll, I'll be good, I'll get,
I'll get it done.
I was like I'm not going torehab and, um, my dad's like,
listen, I think it'd be a reallygood idea.
And like that night has stuckwith me for like a while now.
So that was, that was the realnight when I first like when I
first saw it and I was like Ihave, no, I really don't have a

(47:05):
choice anymore.
And that's kind of the firsttime that I gave a little bit of
a surrendering, like action toto my addiction.
So March 22nd happens andthey're like yo, we're going to
my therapist is like yo, we'regoing to get you in tomorrow.
So I'm like all right, whatever, like I've really don't want to

(47:26):
do this, like let me get, letme get another chance, like I
can do this.
I had my phone, take my phone,like I'm fine.
And um, it was, it was.
It was just a complete justshot in the dark just to see if
they would actually allow me todo that.
And um, they're like we'regoing to get you in tomorrow.
So the next day comes and myparents and I are packing all my
stuff and um, they were likeall right, today, like you don't

(47:47):
have to say yes to treatment,we just want you to go, we want
you to check it out, we want youto just kind of get a feel of
what it would look like to be ata treatment center.
I'm like, okay, if I don't haveto say yes, I'll go.
So I go, we drive.
I don't know how far it was Twohours, maybe Two hours to
Warnersville from Westchester,yeah, so about two hours.

(48:07):
We get there and I remember thefirst person who greeted us.
I'm not going to throw anynames out there, but I remember
the first person who greeted us.
He actually came in the otherday and I said what's up to him?
And yeah, yeah, and I rememberhe greeted me and he was like
hey, you new here.
And I was like I don't know, Idon't know, I'm just, I'm just
here to look around.
We're here for the mini golf,yeah, we're here for the

(48:32):
complimentary.
And he kind of he took me and myparents around the the campus,
we'll call it, and he took me tothe room where I'd be staying
in and I didn't even realize atthe time that that was the room
that I was going to be stayingand I was just going.
He's just showing us a randomroom.
Yeah, keep them, keep my, myname's already on the board,

(48:52):
like I'm already signed intothis place.
Basically, like, just, not tomy knowledge from your intake,
you only need one day.
Yeah, one day and you'll beokay.
And, um, I, I, I, we were in.
I remember we were in thecafeteria and my parents look at
me and they're like listen,like we really think you need
this.
We're going to drive away.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
We'll see you in 30 days.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
No they were like listen, we, I really think you
need this.
And I was like I, I reallydon't want to.
And they're like please.
And my mom starts to like totear up a little bit, and I saw
that and I'm like oh shit, yeah,I'll stay.
So that was like I didn'tsurrender, but I accepted it.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
It's amazing you stayed and you stayed the full
term.
Yes, I did, and you almost leftmultiple times.
Yeah, that is true.
So, Joey, you had a meaningfulexperience at Karen.
Yes, I did.
I get a call that someonereally beats the criteria for

(49:56):
PHP partial hospitalization,living 30, 90 days sober living.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
We hate to do this to you, joe, but this might be a
tough case.
Yeah, he's very likely A notgoing to come there, because you
called twice and we screenedyou twice, yeah, and you were
getting.
You had some attitude on thephone.
Yeah, I told you hey, man, youdon't have to come here at all,
we're not selling cars.

(50:20):
Yeah, and the probability andyou gave me permission to talk
about this is that you were highAMA risk and what that means is
against medical advice youwould leave, yeah, and you
arrived here and that was thecase.
I figured Joe's going to be ashort stay.
I didn't want to over promiseanything to your parents.

(50:40):
It did not.
The probability of you stayinghere was very low.
But you had a change at thelast moment to come here and
that change got interrupted withthe phone and connections to
the past.
And that change got interruptedwith the phone and connections
to the past.
But in all probability, it'snow been months and you're ready

(51:02):
to graduate.
You've made enormous changes.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
You are quintessentially what the
program was designed for and wejust went by the numbers of the
program here and it reallytransformed your entire.
You did it, not me, Transformwhere you're going to school.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
You have a new circle of meaningful friends.
You've had loss here.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
You lost friends to addiction here.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
You got real, serious and empowered your life to be
your own life and your ownexecutive function.
Did you think that was going tohappen here when you met me and
I had you?
When did the turning pointstart, or was it incremental?

Speaker 2 (51:47):
So I remember the first day I was here, it was.
I got here on a Friday and Iwas like all right it's the
worst.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
We never like intakes on Fridays because of you.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
So I get here on a Friday and little did I know, I
didn't know the weekends weregoing to be as as relaxed as
they were.
And I'm like, all right, like Iremember the Friday night
meeting.
I started talking to themeeting and I was like, all
right guys, like I'm reallygoing to try.
Like I started talking to themeeting and I was like, all
right guys, like I'm reallygoing to try.
Like I remember that I sat downand all the boys were there and
there was a few extra peoplethere and I was like guys, like
I want to be a part of thiscommunity.
Like I know I just got here butI really do.

(52:23):
And then the next day I tried toleave.
Yeah, that that was.
That was a real quick change ofevents.
I woke up the next morning andI got a text from someone in the
past and, um, they kind ofconvinced me that I didn't need
help.
After everything I've beenthrough, even after going to
treatment, everything, I stillwas like, oh, maybe, maybe
they're right, maybe I don'tneed help, maybe that all this

(52:45):
was just an accident and I, Ireally don't have a problem, you
know.
And um, uh, that that saidperson was like, all right, I'll
come pick you up right now andyou just pack your bags and we
can leave.
And I was like, all right,sounds good.
So I start packing all my bagsand my roommate at the time
comes in and he's like, dude,where are you going?
And I'm like, oh, I'm leaving.

(53:06):
He's like what You're leaving?
I was like, yeah, I'm leavingthis place helped me out a lot.
Yeah, dude, I'm ready to go, I'm, I'm, I'm cured.
And, um, he's like dude, whatdo you mean?
You're leaving?
I'm like dude, I just I don't,I don't need to be here.

(53:27):
Like I already went throughtreatment, like I got enough
help, like I'm good, if I wenthome I would have been.
So, all right, dude, like Ireally don't think it's a good
idea for you to leave.
I really would encourage you tostay.
Um, but you feel you you dowhat you feel you need to do.
And I was like okay.
So another another one of theguys from the house comes in
who's now moved on from thehouse, and, um, he was like hey,

(53:48):
like I heard you're trying toleave.
I was like, yeah, I'm trying toget out of here.
He's like well, I see thatwe're about to shave your head,
aren't you going to join?
And he was like dude, I really,I really don't think it's a
good idea for you to leave.
And I was like, well, I'm sorryman, I'm sorry brother, but
like I just I'm good, like I gotthis under control, like I'm

(54:11):
going to be able to completethis myself.
It was like I've heard thatbefore and that's not the case.
You're not going to be able todo this yourself.
And I was like, all right,whatever, like I'm going to show
you.
So I remember I go outside andI'm waiting for this person to
come pick me up and like I get acall.
Well, I don't.
I don't really remember exactlywhat happened, but I remember
me and you ended up in the sameroom and we started talking to

(54:31):
my parents and my mom and my momwas like dude, like please,
like I need this, this is gonnahelp, this is gonna screw up my
recovery.
And I remember saying like Idon't give a fuck about your
recovery, like I remember sayingthat.
And I was like now looking backon it, I'm like wow, I really
said that just because of howself-centered and how, like, how
manipulated I was thinking thatI didn't have a problem.

(54:54):
It made me shut on my mom eventhen.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Or the consideration that it's really hard to have
for others when you're thesubject of all your own pain and
we're just extras in your movie.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
That was a bridge too far to speak that way to
someone.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
It's hard for me to watch or even to tolerate
someone to see so much care andhow broken, and I knew you
didn't have the capacity at thatmoment to see.
But that's when I committed.
I knew you would stay anotherday.
I can help you if you just keepmeeting me halfway.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
This community can help you.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yeah, and I remember we, uh, we had that talk.
We were like, joe, just promiseyour mom that you'll stay
another day.
And I was like, all right, fine, like I'm going to stay.
And I stayed another day and wehad to talk again.
You were like, just promise meyou'll stay another day.
I was like, okay, so the we getpast the weekend.
And I was like you know what,this place isn't too bad, right.
And I remember the first week,um, it was pretty quiet.

(56:01):
Uh, I had, yeah, I had a, I hadgroup every single day.
Um, and I remember it was aboutThursday or Friday.
I was starting to get like aremembrance of something One of
the friends in rehab did, andthat was, um, he would snort
well, butrin.
And um, I was like, ooh, like Ihave a full bottle of it.

(56:23):
Like why don't I just try it?
Like it's not a relapse, it'sjust it's.
It's just I'm justexperimenting, stupid, right.
And um, I remember it was abouthalf a week later not even it
was that, it was that nextMonday and um, I relapsed you
know, and uhit was, it was.

(56:43):
It was a rough two weeks fromthat point on, because I just
hit it, I didn't, I didn't sayanything about it and, uh, it
was only until I got confrontedthat I was open and honest and
even then, like I stilldeflected, you know, still had
that addict mentality, still wasjust trying to buy to save my
own skin even though there wasno point, you know, and it was

(57:06):
definitely an incremental change, me changing my life.
It wasn't like it, just I justgave up overnight.
It was definitely.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Give it a choice after hiding that.
Yeah, I don't believe incruelty.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
For someone relapsing with untreated addiction.
Yeah, but I do believe inkeeping a community safe 100%,
if we put that on you and youhad to come before the group.
Yeah, I think that's wheneverything started to change.
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
That was definitely a major point in where I like
when I had to face it and when Ihad to tell everybody what I
did, there was thataccountability there and that
showed me a little bit of whatbeing sober was like taking
accountability for yourscrew-ups.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
And they were okay with you still living here, yeah
, which I'm still grateful for.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
You know, thinking back on it, like they could have
been.
Like if he's going to do that,then he's just a wild card, we
don't want him here.
Like they could have easilydone that.
I would have been homeless.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
I would have, might have and I would have to listen
to that, yeah, but since then areal, a real change happened, I
think, is that you took not onlyyour involvement here seriously
, but your involvement with yourrecovery community.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Real honest amends and you salvaged that semester.
Once we got you stable, withthe idea that you decided you
wanted to be in recovery, westarted to really look at a life
that maybe you wanted to change100%, and now you're moving
here.
Yeah, started to really look ata life that maybe you want it
to change A hundred percent, andnow you're moving here.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Yeah, yeah, dude, it's three months and counting.
Now I think I have about 107days sober now, getting close to
that four months.
Dude, it's, it's, it's ablessing, dude, it really is.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Well, I'm proud of you, Um, and I'm glad to get to
tell your story here.
And what would you say, youknow, to yourself on day one,
when you were ready to leave,from calls, cruelty, um, and
disregard for your parents'emotions and feelings, we got

(59:17):
past that and really consideringthat you were starting to make
decisions for an entire life,not a day, that's a real liberty
, that's agency, and I've seenyou obtain that and we're all
very proud of you.
What would you say to yourselfwhen you arrived here?
How would you have talkedyourself off that porch?

(59:39):
That day?

Speaker 2 (59:40):
I got in your grill oh, dude, I don't even know what
I would have said to myself,because even if I, like, really
did sit myself down and I talkedto myself about it, I don't
even know if I would havelistened.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
I'm going to tell you something.
Joey, in the in the next year,you're going to have that chance
to do that, it's just going tobe a Joey by a different name.
The leadership that you show nowin the house.
You meet new guys all the time.
You're talking to yourself.
Helping another alcoholic helpsus.
That's the paradox of theprogram.
I look forward.
Helping another alcoholic helpsus.

(01:00:15):
That's the paradox of theprogram.
So I look forward to what therest of your year is going to
look like.
We're very proud of you.
We can't wait to coin you outsoon, when that day is coming.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
So is there any parting ideas or thoughts you'd
like to say?
Yeah, sure, um, yeah, I mean,if it wasn't for this house and
the people here, I would stillbe.
I would probably be there's.
No, probably I'd be homelessand I'd be using and my life
would be utter hell.
And because I made that promiseto you on day one that I give
it a chance, I was able totransform my life completely.

(01:00:53):
Now, outside forces they don'treally get to me.
Yeah, I think about them, butit's getting to a point where
they're not changing my emotions, they're not affecting my
mental.
It's getting to a point nowwhere I'm able to make conscious
decisions instead of decisionswith an illusion over it.
I'm able to see the truth inpeople.

(01:01:13):
Now I'm able to see, as you say, who's asleep and who's awake.
Somewhat, I'm starting torealize that when I go to
meetings, I'm starting to reallysee like, oh, okay this
person's really not awake yet.
So being able to tell that I'mmaking that progress, it's
really just showing me, it'smaking me even believe even
harder, that this program really, really, really works.

(01:01:34):
And I'm just grateful that I'mstill here, you know, grateful
that I'm able to stay.
I'm grateful that my parentshave the financial stability to
be able to put me in a placelike this, because without it
I'd be, I'd be screwed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
So yeah, we're glad to have your brother.
Yes, sir, well, I'll talk toyou later tonight, all right,
I'll talk to you later tonight,all right.
I'd like to thank you forlistening to another episode of
All Better.
You can find us on allbetterfmor listen to us on Apple

(01:02:07):
Podcasts, spotify, googlePodcasts, stitcher, iheartradio
and Alexa.
Special thanks to our producer,john Edwards, and engineering
company 570 Drone.
Please like or subscribe to uson YouTube, facebook, instagram
or Twitter and, if you're not,on social media, you're awesome.

(01:02:30):
Looking forward to seeing youagain.
And remember, just becauseyou're sober doesn't mean you're
right.
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