Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, leo.
When was the last time you didmasculine?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It was a while ago,
Joe.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
All right, we're
gonna talk about it.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Welcome to all better
.
This is Joe Van wheat.
No, this is not Joe Van wheat.
This is Jonathan Edwards, theeditor for this episode and all
episodes of all better.
Joe didn't record an intro, sothis is me recording an intro,
and this is a fun episode.
(00:34):
You can already tell about thesound buddy at the very
beginning.
I Don't really know anyone inthe episode, but I know they're
great storytellers and justlistening to the sound bites
I've already listened to this isreally fun.
There is one technical issuetoward the end of the episode it
abruptly cuts off.
(00:55):
I'll let you know when thathappens, but Just fair warning,
there will be a part two of thisepisode coming.
They have to, you know, do thatwhole re-recording it thing.
Anyway, you're not here tolisten to me ramble, so let's
get back to the show.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Well, we're back and
we're in studio.
How this came about was abarbecue at Russell's house.
Leo told me a story I neverheard and I've known Leo for 45
years, and I'm 45 years old.
I've known him consciously forabout 40 years.
So we were talking about Leo'sexperience at Woodstock.
(01:39):
But I wanted to start with aquestion before we get there,
and I already did anintroduction Russ, people know
you an ear and her here.
Leo, there's a comment.
It's headed towards earth.
It's kind of like don't look upthe Netflix movie Leonardo
DiCaprio.
We have about two weeks.
(02:02):
A Week goes by.
Everyone of in your familyplans on coming up to Arthur Ave
.
You're gonna spend the timethere, brock Jean.
So this is, this is great, butwe're all gonna die.
At some point.
(02:23):
You read an article that mostpeople are finding relief to the
anxiety of this comic comingwith their family by Smoking a
grape owl blunt With high THC.
Count.
The kids start passing itaround.
You got a nice dinner out.
(02:44):
There's hours left, commentscoming.
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, what I do is I
sit back and enjoy it, knowing
that, knowing that this is it,this is a light show I want to
experience and I experienced alot of comments coming at me In
my addiction.
Of course, we were talkingearlier about the psychedelics
and I.
I came out of the psychedelicage and the LSD are using it for
(03:17):
mind expansions.
I Wasn't necessarily doing itfor mind expansions but for, you
know, just the rush and I Waszooming all over the universe
Between the ups and theamphetamines, the psychedelics,
(03:40):
of course, the drinking andSmoking, whatever it was that I
smoked.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Well, you were kind
of a maverick to the area of
testing all kinds of narcotics.
But to stay specifically whatpeople historically call
hallucinogenics, psychedelics,ethyogens I want to stop there
because In my mind yourpersonality is I didn't realize
this until I would see, like youknow, Old Martin Scorsese
(04:12):
movies.
The whole atmosphere of yourpersonality Is from Scranton,
Italian, Charming, kind of youknow a G, and to know you have
taken mescaline acid and itwasn't with the intention for
(04:34):
mind expansion.
I want to ask you there's are-insurgence going on with
ethyogens being used for traumatherapy and some, you know,
quest for enlightenment.
Was there a side effect thatwas unexpected, that lasted with
you, that altered and changedyour personality, maybe say for
(04:56):
the better, or enlarged yourempathy?
Would you be able to say thatis true?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
For the better.
Well, yeah, because I camethrough it.
I only had one negative trip.
That was on some blotter as theshape like Mickey Mouse.
I took a tab of that when Iwasn't feeling well and I
snorted one of those Vixenhalers if anybody remembers
(05:22):
those and I was.
You know I was zooming, I wasjust lifted, so I didn't know I
was going to come back from that.
But I came back and now you'reon a podcast.
You landed all the way backthere.
Really.
Yeah, I ended up coming backwith this.
You know the noise in a musicbox.
The women used to have to openthem up.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Like the blind ET.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I ended up in one of
those.
That's how I came back.
Holy mackerel, yeah.
So that was an experience.
However, that was a negativeexperience that's turned out to
be a positive experience becausewhen you're out there that far,
obviously I had a God in mylife because I relied on that.
Only that was that was it andthat's where I ended up.
(06:07):
But most of the trips wereenlightening for the time and
enjoyable for the time, exceptdoing too many times.
Wow, yeah it's not without risk,but yeah, but it was, yeah, it
(06:28):
was the, that was the timeperiod of it, so it wasn't alone
most of the time, it wasn'tlike that, it was with other
people.
So the first couple hours ofthe trip, as you get through it,
and then you're into anotherzone area, and what did I learn
there?
Who knows?
Well, it comes into my mind atthat point, not sure, but it was
(06:53):
, it was.
I guess it was enough to makeme do it again.
Yeah, yeah, it got me out ofmyself for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
And you know how this
conversation started in
Russell's backyard was I said?
You know most people don't knowthis, but Leo's half a hippie
and you wouldn't tell why a suitCody wears, but he's got a
hippie heart.
I'm also curious Aaron, thisyear first time on the show,
would you say you had a hippieheart.
When you hear Leo talk, wereyou surprised to hear that he
(07:30):
will get to the story of himgoing to Woodstock?
But were you surprised by that?
Speaker 5 (07:34):
I don't think so.
I think I expected that.
Yeah, because he loves music,he loves art, so yeah, there's
definitely a hippie in there.
I kind of knew that.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Aaron, did you ever
go on a space adventure, on any
psychedelics?
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Um ecstasy ones.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
That's a psychedelic.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
That is that count.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, and it's uh,
it's being legalized in multiple
states right now for PTSD there, oh really, because it mutes
your, your ego.
Um, it helps people withinflamed amygdala is where
anxiety would come from.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So I'm always
interested to talk about this
stuff.
It's the most interesting thing, and I know Russell was on an
ecstasy trip for about 15 years.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
I did that with two,
two homosexual friends after
their shift after Wicked.
They were both in Wicked andback at their apartment.
We didn't leave the apartmentuntil like 10 am the next
morning, right?
So like 11 to 10.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Wicked, the play,
yeah, what's what?
What would be the summary ofWicked?
I can't remember.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
What's Wicked?
Wicked is the one with the twowitches.
Oh, that's um.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Glenda and.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
Elphaba.
So they were they're both inthat show.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So, after that show
as the witches or supporting
roles.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
One was the mayor and
one was just in the course.
Yeah, it was a trip.
I never did it again.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
No, no, no, Now Russ.
How did you know?
Did you know Leo was acosmonaut?
Speaker 6 (09:12):
Uh, well, you know,
I've known, like you, leo for my
entire life.
I mean, he's daddy Leo, I callhim daddy Um.
He uh, yeah, I I've heard a lotof the stories uh, you know,
and a hippie at heart,absolutely, and he's like what's
a hippie?
Right, free spirit it kind, youknow um less regulation, less
(09:37):
less yeah For sureAnti-authoritarian yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah.
Now, leo, would you everdescribe yourself that way, as a
hippie?
And let me put it in this lenstoo.
What music do you listen to,and has your music changed?
Are you listening ever to newmusic?
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Oh sure, I listen to
all music.
I love music.
Um, I'm I'm a person whodoesn't remember the words.
I don't remember the artist.
I'm not one of those people,but whenever music gets my
attention, most of it does.
Uh yeah, I'm a good listener.
It's a.
(10:18):
It makes me feel good.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And were you drawn
from the seventies to say, like
the band, maybe the Beatles?
Like you kind of seem like anElvis guy to me.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Uh-uh, Actually I was
a soul guy.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
And I was a rhythm
and blues guy before rock and
roll.
Remember, I'm a hundred yearsold, so so I was in the rhythm
and blues before rock and rollcame in, and of course I was
right at the rock and roll.
Uh, so I enjoy, uh, all music,the melodies I like.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Melodies and rhythm
seem to grab you.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Not the content of
the words, that just seems
irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And when I hear the
words, when somebody tells me
what the words are, they'rebeautiful words.
Now, I understand a lot aboutthat, but for whatever is going
on with my hearing, a lot oftimes I don't hear the same
thing as other people here.
Uh, I'll be singing a song.
If I was singing alone, otherpeople were listening in.
Yeah, and then what was?
He saying so, not the songthat's in there, even the words
(11:27):
that are in there.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
The big stuff, like
Chubby Checker prior to Chubby.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Checker, I met him in
Washington DC in the 60s.
Wow, yeah, I met him personallydown there.
It was at a small venue, arocket room that was called
Rocket.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Room.
Holy, I thought I was in therocket.
I thought that was my bedroom,the rocket room.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
The rocket room yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So you skipped over,
say, maybe even the music
movement of, say, the 60s.
It was there in the background,but what grabbed you?
Because you're a dancer and in1969,.
How old would you have been?
Would you be in your 20s or 30s?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
My 20s, 20s yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So you were a dancer
and you were the Jitterbug King.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Well, I was the king.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
That's what my mother
has titled you.
She said you and Lulu Violawere the Jitterbug champions of
Scranton.
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I have no idea Like
the dance.
Yeah, yeah, I love the dance.
I still do so.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I just I guess to
stay and prep for Woodstock.
It's when Led Zeppelin came outand these, these, this harder
edge to rock, even the stones orthe who did that grab?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
you.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, that was big time.
I was doing the blackopium-mated hash then.
So yeah, it was like right inthere.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You got to unpack
that.
No one's going to know whatthat means.
What is black opium hash?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, it was black
hash, but they put an opium in
it, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
It allowed for easy
listening.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, I was on a nine
month deal with that.
And it was.
I was into all of that, lovethe music.
Yeah, yeah, it was meaningful.
Music back then had a lot ofmeaning to it For the times.
There was a lot of changinggoing on Age of Aquarius.
We were coming at the wholedifferent millennium of Aquarius
(13:33):
and nobody knew what that was.
Yeah, what does it mean?
Only the hippies knew and I wasa half a hippie, so I was half
business, half hippie.
I don't dance alls and I itmight be a shoe insurance
business and bars.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And one of the bars
was named Zodiac Lounge.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Who named that Me?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
How did you pick the
name?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Well, I was kind of
an amateur astrologist.
Wow, I didn't know that.
Yeah, I was into it 16 ways toSunday, so I would be able to do
.
I could still do other people'shoroscopes.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
So the draw to say
astrology, the age of Aquarius,
I think people who just know youfor five, 10 minutes can feel
like walk away and feel likethey connect it and knew you.
But they don't always get thedetails.
And I think the details are sointeresting because I don't
think that's what's left withpeople, that impression.
(14:38):
So when you're being drawn tothe way you draw, the music,
rhythm, movement, kind of theexpansions that are happening
with the trips, but addictionskind of flaring up in your life
and we're not glorifyingaddiction, I've never heard you
do that, but there's somethingelse underneath that that can't
(15:02):
be ignored, that you want todesperately connect with as many
people as possible.
Would that be a driving force?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Would you say that
was your- Absolutely and not
intentionally, not mentally, butthat's what drives me, yeah,
the masses.
I'm always interested in beingconnected, especially with
something that feels good orsomething that looks good or
something that's a strong, goodmessage.
One of your part of that.
(15:29):
And, yeah, it's interestingthat you know that about me.
I've been watching you.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I love you.
I love you man.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
I get about what I
say watch what I do.
I love you.
Wait, Leo, weren't you atWoodstock?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I was.
I was up there.
That's when I used the term.
I was a half a hippie Because Iwent up as a business person, a
little bit of Jew, with an idoldelinquent in me when I went up
and certainly was speeding, notonly with the car but with the
amphetamines, and the reason Iwas going up?
(16:11):
I owned a dance hall and I wasgoing up there to book the bands
.
Like you were actually going tobook Jimi Hendrix and Jimi
Hendrix was one of the peoplethat Jimi Hendrix had that.
Nobody knew who Jimi Hendrixwas back then, except this
(16:33):
generation is hippie generation,and I was smoking pop back
there.
It wasn't even a call pop.
That was called either AcapulcoGold or Dope.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Would they be
referred to as dope Panama Red?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Panama Red or
Acapulco Gold.
They were the only two.
They were the premiums, I guess, but there was no such thing as
weed or pot Nobody used thoseterms or grass, that wasn't used
at the time, but anyway.
So we would get these, theserecords, cassettes, jimi Hendrix
(17:14):
who would play, and of course,when you were doing this stuff,
you experienced that the wholeother way.
So I experienced it like otherpeople were experiencing on the
planet.
But I didn't know the otherpeople.
Well, when the bands were soexpensive back then that I
thought, well, we, we eliminatethe agent on New York and I'll
just go up and talk to thempersonally, cause there were
(17:35):
gonna be 5,000 people there, Ifigured, well, I could work
through 5,000 people to get tothe stage, to get to the person.
That was my intention.
So we started off being MuleyWonders and Richie Noto were
going up and at that time weonly had AM.
Fm wasn't out or might've beenjust starting, but there was no
(17:58):
FM radio, just AM.
So you got the local stationsaying we're gonna be 5,000
people, right?
Well, that was all the peoplein the world, us.
You know, 5,000 people was alot of people.
We never saw 5,000 peoplegathered.
So we're going up and we'regiggling about that.
And then another right butright, when we get to the edge,
(18:19):
where we're gonna lose, thatstation was like 20,000 people.
They're expecting, right, andwe're laughing, we're thinking
like they're just popping it up.
And then the next thing we heardfrom one of the different
stations came in, that the NewYork hallway is blocked right,
(18:41):
and we don't have no idea whatthat even is.
But you know, it's like well,this is like insane.
We got there, which we thoughtwe got there.
We got there and we pulled overinto a ditch and there was just
, you know, walls of people.
So it started off thinking likeit's around the corner, couple
(19:05):
of minutes away, even 10 minutesaway, must have walked for a
half hour.
It never got by the people.
It was just a sea of people.
Never saw so many people in mylife, didn't even know what that
was.
We saw things that leftScranton of innocence and went
there, and people did thingsthat weren't so innocent in
(19:29):
Scranton, which were pretty muchrun of the mill there Women
without tops, you know, walkingaround like.
You know Like.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Lackawanna Avenue.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Like three nos.
It was astounding to me, it gotmy attention.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Prenos after midnight
.
The farm experience of Prenos.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It never stopped and
it was just continuous people
and.
But I was there to book thebands, yeah, and here you know
what.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
You can't make it up,
were you just zipping cards up
to the stage no, 50,000 yards.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Well, it took me a
long time before I realized that
we didn't get to the stage.
We didn't get to the main event.
I've been walking for a halfhour so I thought I parked
within the, but you know, it wasjust.
It's so many people you can'teven imagine.
Of course, there was nopublicity.
What are you?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
wearing?
What are you wearing there?
Like I can't see you with Malabeads.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Well, you know what?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Were you, did you
have a blazer on?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
No, no, I didn't put
the blazer on, but I had the
shirt.
I had the button down shirt,you know, you meant business.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
You're going up to
Woodstock.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Oh yeah, I got to be
like yeah, and during that rain
or that mud slide thing, wewatched that movie.
I'm there, but I kept movingaway from the cameras because I
didn't want anybody to see methere, Because I realized, wait,
where am I at here?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Like yeah, this is
the Republican Party.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
I grew up with.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I could be on
television now or in a movie,
but worse, and I'm thinking likeso I'm on the sidelines, but I
was soaking wet.
This is, by the way.
When I got there, the sun wasshining beautiful day, the
nicest day of the year, and I itstarted raining.
(21:31):
Then it started with likemonsoons.
It was like the most torrentialrains I ever saw in my life to
this day, and everything turnedlike dark.
It was like nighttime almost,and so there was a tent there
and the people that were rightin that vicinity ran under this
tent.
It must have been like 20 peoplein a tent and some guy had a
(21:55):
bag of weed.
There Is anybody have anypapers?
And nobody knew what paperswere.
Then Nobody had papers, right.
But this guy says no, but I gota newspaper.
Well, give me the newspaper.
So he rolled a joint like thisI was just a hunker, Not a
(22:18):
newspaper right.
So that was passed around underthere and the rain was like
torrential outside and it wasgoing off for it seemed like
forever, and the more I smokedit seemed like it was never
gonna stop.
And then all of a sudden it gota little less, because you
could hear it hitting the tent.
It's got a little bit less, alittle bit less.
(22:38):
And then you heard thischanting let the sun shine Of
the queries that was planned inNew York at that time.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Well, Erin should
sing that.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah right, Exactly,
yeah, she would sing it right.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, you don't want
me to sing it, I'll ruin it, but
they were singing it, they werechanting it like, for they
started.
And now this is not a couplepeople.
This starts off as, like maybea 10 people, then a hundred
people, then a thousand people,then 10,000 people, then 20,000
people, then 50,000 people arechanting this all at one time,
(23:09):
sitting in a mud slide.
Wow.
And maybe around half hour to45 minutes later, all of a
sudden the sky starts opening up, the sun starts coming out and
out of the sky comes all theselittle like.
It looked like paratroopers,but there are all those little
(23:33):
poppies that they give out atthe like.
When you go, you know you'regoing into a store and they say
you're a poppy for a dollar.
That was because, remember,this was a peace festival.
Wow, they were going againstthe, the war, the Vietnam War,
supporting civil rights, rightand women's rights, sexual
liberation, you name it.
(23:54):
It was all on the table there.
Yeah, that's why all the womenwere, you know, the, the topless
.
And yeah, I dig it.
Right, I dig it.
But here, you know what?
It was startling, it was lifechanging.
Yeah, I said at the time youknow what?
The world's never going to bethe same.
(24:15):
I said that the two guys I waswith this is like different and
they agreed.
Then I found some girl laying.
She must have taken this purplehaze at the time that they have
.
She was turning blue, laying inthe mud.
(24:35):
So I helped get her up out ofthe mud but she was unconscious
and I didn't know what to dowith her.
But there was a mage, makeshifthospital.
It seemed like next door, withthe big red cross on it.
Yeah, it's off like a white,white tent.
And I started carrying her overthere and it wasn't next door.
(25:03):
See, to me it looked like that.
Okay, now I'm smoking thathooch under the tent Right, and
now I'm walking with the right.
It's like holy smokes.
This is forever.
We're going to die out here.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Oh, my arms, my arms.
I couldn't hold her anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
So we kept
transferring, I kept giving her
a willy, kept giving her toRichard, and what we finally got
her, that is tipped andhopefully she made it out alive.
But there was a whole facilitythere for people who owed deed.
Wow See, but obviously she did.
(25:43):
That was the only one I saw, ofcourse, but this place was
filled with a lot of differentpeople that they had there.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, it's pretty
sophisticated.
Today that's the firstorganized movement slash music
festival.
If you went to Camp Biscoe, Ithink there's music there.
It's usually just a drumfestival.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I couldn't believe
that this was all happening.
Yeah, they would.
Now, I went up on a Sunday, soI wasn't there for the whole
thing, but I was there for, like, the part where most of it's
filmed, you know, but notnecessarily the music, but the
people.
It's just incredible that therewas no and there was never a
(26:26):
fight across.
Word Everybody's peaceful.
Yeah, there was.
I gotta say this because it gotmy attention.
I had a laugh in the middle ofall.
This was like there was alittle house Okay, it must have
been I forget whose farm.
It was little house and therewas like a white picket fence in
the yard Right and there wasseveral people in there, okay.
(26:50):
And then they had a post with asign on it juicers.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Juicers.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
There's the people
who drank.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Only drank Only
drinkers.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
They were in there.
There was a six or seven ofthem right bloody.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
The world's not
changing.
You cross this fence.
The world doesn't change.
We're straight juicers, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Straight juicer Right
, exactly, but they put a sign
in the yard.
But anyway, it was afascinating thing To cap this
off this conversation.
On the way home we stopped foran ice cream.
A pleasant Meantime, you gottaremember.
(27:34):
I'm there as, like I said, likea businessman, slash whatever
else I am, and I smoke a pipe atthe time.
See, I smoke everything butpipe.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
But as a you know, as
a like you know country
gentleman pipe.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
It was a a Cabe Woody
they were called.
If you look them up, they were,like you know, the yuppie pipe.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, a lot of people
smoke pipe thing.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, so, anyway.
So we pull up to this stand andWillie gets out to get the see
if we get an ice cream and someguys screaming hey, anybody got
a pipe man.
And I'm listening to him.
Right, you know, I meant tothis spirit At night, yeah, I
(28:20):
got a pipe right, oh really,Thanks, man.
I go.
I says here's a pipe, and I hadtwo Cabe wouldies.
They just bought a new one,Right?
So he said, oh, I reallyappreciate it, man.
I said, yeah, keep it, Keep it.
Man.
He says, yeah, just keep it.
I got another one and he saidLet me have the pipe.
Man when he's talking to himthere, right?
(28:42):
So, so we're having the icecream.
So when he comes, he comes back.
He said I'm really pretty sureyou don't want it.
No, no, you keep the pipe.
Let me see your pipe.
He says, so I give him my pipe.
He goes it puts all thesepellets in my pipe.
Right, Looked like rabbit shitreally.
And what was it?
(29:04):
But it was opium.
But I didn't know that.
I didn't know what opium was.
I never did opium, Anyway.
So of course we had a shot, sowe did Okay.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Goes well with ice
cream.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, it was the
longest trip ever.
Come on home.
It was like.
It was like we're never goingto get home.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
The Odyssey.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
You know, you know,
Taylor Hill were a big Russell
went down the hill.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, fire Dead man
All hills like that Even steeper
than that.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
They were like ski
ski paths right.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Black diamond
approach to Scranton.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And I'd be, I was
driving and every every once in
a while I'd say, willie, I'mgoing to car, see where we're at
, because we're all like this,did he have a periscope?
So you get on, knock onsomebody's door right, get back
in and we go again, right, andtraveling, traveling, right, but
(30:10):
like hanging on these cliffs,like really, you know, I don't
remember this, anybody rememberthis.
We don't know what's that stuff, right, but I don't add Willie,
you know five different timesout of the car, See where we're
at now.
See, right, like I'm takingwith Tom, wow.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
You just give me an
idea for a game show Like
millennials.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It was the same house
for the host what.
Were the cops called no, Idon't know cops up there.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
No, no, you kidding
me we should do a game show
called Surviving the 70s, whereyou're the host.
You take a millennial, you makesome smoking ounce of opium and
drop them off in like a statethat, like Vermont, they've
never been there and you have toget here.
We just give them a map.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Well, willie was
riding shotgun, so he kept
getting out and he kept real.
I don't think we went any place, but he thought he did too.
But wow, yeah.
That just strikes me funny now,but anyway, that was my first
experience, and but I went backup like 45 years later.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, there's not a
hill in the place.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Aaron, do you feel
you missed out on this, like you
relate to the 70s and 60smusically, that you feel that's
something past that you couldn'tbe a part of, or do you feel
that the 90s and the 2000s havetheir own merit and what you
relate to them musically?
Speaker 5 (31:54):
I don't know why I
love the 70s.
I do, if you think about itmusically, though.
There's all sorts of music inthe 70s like it's a great decade
of music, but all the I feellike all the decades up until
like the 2000s have their ownsound and in like the 2000s to
now, it's all like kind ofeither Stuff coming coming back
(32:15):
again or coming back, or youknow, sometimes I venture to say
that the producers started tohave a sound, not musicians.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
exactly, exactly,
yeah and the producers voices in
there and the way it mutes Awayguitar actually sounds.
Editing got more sophisticatedwith Pro Tools.
You don't have to sing in key,you don't have to all be in the
studio, because in the 70s thewhole band still had to be there
(32:43):
in play.
In time they weren't reallyseparating or isolating a lot of
tracks, so when you wouldrecord, everybody would have to
be there.
Have you recorded that way todo?
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Like recording
Basically for musical theater?
I don't really.
I've only done a few recordingsfor different jazz artists in
the area.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I've never really
done my own studio recording.
How does one stay in time then,like Coming up, the way you did
stay in time when you'replaying live?
How do you hear the band likeor the?
What keeps you all in time?
Just listen, just listening noteveryone has that ear.
I love music.
I can't keep.
I couldn't stay in time.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
It's a conversation,
it's like, it's like this, but
with music.
He said to listen to each other.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, yeah, I want to
do too much when listening
music over move Sing Russ.
I wanted to get a quick update.
See what these guys do.
You guys know Russell's now ournutritional director at
Fellowship House.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
That's my new.
Yeah, that's not even got thebadge.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
He's got a badge yeah
he's got a business guards.
Dancing, so we just our firstclass, yeah, I want to know, I
want to hear your thoughts,because we haven't been able to
Do a postmortem here.
What happened.
Russ is teaching the life skillsand what we're calling recovery
cooking twice a month and andwhat that is is, is residents
(34:11):
from a PHP or the outpatient getto sit in and Russ will Show
how to prepare a meal, how toshop, how to read labels, the
relationship of Process foods orsay sugar, with mood, maybe
habits we can break, why someonecould sustain themselves and
how food could be a big part ofBasically stabilizing a mood
(34:34):
within the first year, coupledwith you know Some
organizational things of how tokeep your kitchen, how do how to
keep the house, absolutely so.
We did our first test for aMonday.
What did you think about it?
Speaker 6 (34:45):
I thought it went
great.
I mean, first of all, the house, it's beautiful, right, the
facility, I mean you guys did anamazing job with it.
We were up on the second floor,we had a nice little.
Was there a pay about alltogether, about ten of us, right
?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah right.
And I see if you asked me, Iwould have said a hundred, but
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
But no, it went, it
went great.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
That was our test run
and I think it is so important,
you know, because here, likewhen we're in Addiction, right,
I know for me and for a lot ofpeople like foods the last thing
on our mind yeah, right, likethe last thing we're thinking
about is, oh, let me get a good,healthy meal in, or whatever
you know, and that's one way toget back, you know, living a
(35:30):
healthy, normal lifestyle.
And especially for me, and whatI wanted to show the first
class was like.
So we did like for me, simpleand Like cooking seats.
I take stuff for granted, likefor me, because everything kind
of I don't want to like comesnatural but it does.
I was born into the Business,into the kitchen.
(35:51):
I mean my youngest memorieswith my father.
I know they put me on a milkcrate, teaching me how to peel
vegetables or do this cookwhatever in front of a stove or
what not, and but it could be a.
It's a lot of fun.
It could be a lot of funcooking and people.
I think it intimidated by, youknow, like Having to make this
(36:13):
large meal or like complexthings we're really like.
I wanted to show, you know, theresidents and everybody, that
it doesn't have to be.
We don't have to make itcomplicated.
We could make it, you know,simple, taste great, fresh, like
I'm a big advocate, especiallynow, like, like in the summer.
I'm glad we started at thingslike I went to the farmers
(36:33):
market, bought some stuff and,like you know, so you know Like
fresh fruit, fresh vegetables.
You know I Don't know, I'm abig advocate.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
On on that, keeps
that thought we'll be right back
yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Hey, this is an ad,
right, okay, hey everyone, this
is an ad.
Hello, my name is.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Joe van.
We am the host of all better.
I'm also the CEO.
Fellowship house and fellowshiphouse.
We believe long-term recoveryRequires a personality change as
well as a clinical intervention.
These ideas can take severalmonths to achieve.
Our philosophy is to provide asafe, therapeutic and Seedingly
(37:22):
active environment for patientsto achieve these personality
changes and find joy, thefellowship of recovery, which
will allow for long-termsobriety.
We believe that recovery extendsbeyond treatment and
peer-to-peer communities.
It's a real life.
The fellowship house.
(37:42):
We provide a design for livingthat focuses on education and
service.
We have strong relationshipswith the 12 universities and
vocational schools in the areaand Assure that our fellows
pursue their personal goalsWhile entering sobriety.
We also stress independence andresponsibility, making sure
(38:04):
each individual is financiallysolid and self and helping to
make their community a betterplace.
As a treatment center,fellowship house offers both
residential and outpatienttreatment services to
individuals and familiesaffected by addiction and
alcoholism.
We're a D-DAP license providerof general outpatient, intensive
(38:27):
outpatient and partialhospitalization programming, as
well as a level of careassessments.
If you want to find out moreinformation about fellowship
house, please visit fellowshiphouses, fellowship houses, calm.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Are you done?
Yet You're done, okay, good,all right, back to the show,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Okay, we're back,
russ, what you were saying I was
thinking of a couple things.
I Think a lot of people that Irelated to in in my own personal
early recovery.
I'm so out of touch with mybody.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, by the time I realized Iwas hungry.
(39:08):
I'm starving Because I can'tcommunicate with basic senses
from itches to hunger.
I don't plan ahead.
I'm spending so much time juststraight in my head by the time
my body needs something.
It's like a full-arm five-alarmfire so I will panic and rush
(39:29):
for takeout.
Maybe that's not in the budgetfor a lot of people in early
recovery, but you just kind ofleave yourself no option.
Speaker 6 (39:36):
You're not preparing
food.
Or fast food, or I need sugar.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Or my day's going to
collapse.
So do you think a lot of peoplecould benefit?
They could start the way you'reapproaching this.
They could start right in earlyrecovery, preparing a meal that
would last three to four daysand have more energy output,
definitely.
Speaker 6 (39:56):
Yeah, and like what
you said, starting from the
basics of making a grocery list,which for us is something OK,
like, said, a new grocery list,but for some people you wouldn't
even think about doing that.
So, starting just there,starting with a grocery list and
meal prep for the week youcould take, for instance, so we
(40:18):
did chicken, I brought somechicken breasts and we made a
few meals out of it.
We did chicken parmesan, we did.
I tried them out to do bakedchicken that we could put on a
salad, we could make in thechicken soga, stir a little
chicken shit in the chickensalad and do a little mayonnaise
.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
But yeah, you know so
with one, that's my leo.
That's my leo in the chicken.
Chicken shit in the chickensalad.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
You got to work on it
.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
OK, pal, you're going
to make chicken shit out of the
chicken salad.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Let me talk.
Ok, I was up at Woodstock, pal,I ain't writing.
You want to talk about morality?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Let me tell you that
that's my leo impression.
Speaker 6 (40:56):
So, yeah, you could
take one protein or whatever and
make a few meals for the weekout of it it only took 20
minutes.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
And then what you
produced out of that 20 minutes
guys could have in the fridgefor a protein, a starch,
vegetable.
How about the approach ofreading labels?
I mean, my wife always took theschooled me in this.
The more you see, the more youhave to digest and some things
if you can't read it youshouldn't be digesting it.
(41:24):
You don't know what it is, andthat was the kind of simple
approach I take with looking atstuff.
If that looks like it should bein a lab, I don't think I want
it in my intestine.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
And these things all
have an effect.
I'm moved and I'm just excited.
The guys were thrilled.
That was the feedback I got.
Speaker 6 (41:45):
Yeah, I know it was
so much fun and being able to
bring a little aspect ofrecovery in it too, which I
thought was awesome, because forme now it's like getting that
passion back.
I mean I've had it for a whilenow, and back when I was in my
active addiction, it was justlike I had to go to work.
(42:06):
It was, like you know, kind ofa drag and I have to do this, I
have to do that Now.
I'm so excited about it andbeing able to now bring it into
your house here, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, and you're
right, there was a gentleman
there that he was familiar withyou.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
He wasn't familiar
with anyone in recovery.
It was the first time youconnected with someone.
Speaker 6 (42:30):
No, it was great I've
known him yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
And it was
overcooking.
It felt normal, it felt relaxed, it wasn't contrived.
It's not this therapy settingthat can feel really restrictive
, because what a beautiful way.
Speaker 6 (42:41):
I mean, think about
it Like right, like I know, like
Sunday dinners or like what Imean that's how we get people
together.
It's such a big way of gettingpeople together.
Is eating Right?
Is, you know, bringingeverybody together?
What you were saying, you knowthat's what you love, like, just
you know the masses gettingpeople together, connecting with
people.
What other, what better way toconnect with somebody than over
(43:02):
a you know a nice meal?
I hope the meal just get aroundand you know yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
So you got to come
down Monday, yeah, monday night.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Oh yeah, for sure,
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 6 (43:11):
And we had a couple
other people too, that that
popped in.
Jimmy, jimmy McHugh popped inand you know I invited Sam over.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Well, that was more
of a Aaron you please.
Speaker 5 (43:20):
I'd like to take the
lesson.
Well, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (43:22):
Come in, I'll teach
you.
Yeah, please, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Jimmy was more of a
break-in.
He didn't pop, he didn't pop.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yeah, he did pop.
He did pop.
Speaker 6 (43:31):
Yeah, I told him
there'd be leftover, so he
showed up.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Aaron, did music ever
take you anywhere?
Were you it was serving atherapy or just basic connection
with people?
Maybe died during youraddiction.
That, maybe your recovery giveyou new entrance back into
something we've always loved.
Speaker 5 (43:53):
I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Like in the way
Russell loves cooking his dad
did.
But there's a point inaddiction that is just making it
laborious.
He's showing up for work.
Creativity's getting beat outof him.
He gets recovery, it's justit's like a full awakening.
Not only like a reprieve fromthe consequences that drinking
could cause any of us, but somekind of invigoration of life
(44:19):
feels new, even though your 40life felt new again.
Cooking felt new again, sharingwhat you really sometimes don't
know how much you know or howmuch of an expert you are, until
you teach something to someoneand they're just overwhelmed.
What you take for granted sosimple chicken parm, chicken
(44:41):
salad and to see someone elsethink they can make that is just
.
I think it's fulfilling.
Can you say or did you have anyplans to connect with people in
that way, you think?
Speaker 5 (44:53):
Well, I think I teach
during the day students and I
sing at night.
So it does get you know, itgets like to be your job
Teaching.
Sometimes I get burnt out, butthen I realize it's really cool.
I get to just pass thatinformation along to the younger
(45:14):
people and that's reallyfulfilling actually when you see
them because a lot of them gointo musical theater or music in
general, and I have, like allthese adult students now that
that's what they do, so that'spretty cool.
What's the draw of adults andsomehow I was sober when I
started this business and then,throughout my whole relapse, I
(45:37):
still continued to teach, but itdefinitely was.
What's the word?
It just Mute it.
I don't know.
I guess I was functioningsomehow, but it was during COVID
too, so a lot of that wasonline and you could wear a mask
and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
So that was lucky for
me.
Like a scream mask or like ahockey mask.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
Figo, but I think
that your responsibilities get
to be like I'm more.
I'm definitely back to beingnot that I wasn't, but I'm back
to being very responsible Again.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
That makes any sense.
Sounds boring, I know right,it's not.
It's not boring, it's notboring, it's great.
The word has bad history in myhead.
I grew up Catholic at Scranton,but to feel the idea of being
away.
You said burnout and I thinkburnout, if it was generalized
in any field, from lawenforcement, being a clinician,
(46:41):
being a chef and being a musicteacher, I think what burns
people out, that I relate to,that either overcame an
addiction or trauma.
The burnout's being produced.
If you could really point at itand then put it under a
microscope.
The demand to be present, andwhen you're teaching music you
(47:03):
have to be present the person'sright in front of you when
you're a clinician, all right.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
I told you I'd warn
you when it happened, and it
happened.
Almost a hundred episodes in,really, if you think about it.
And this has only happenedtwice when something happened
where we couldn't finish theepisode because of a technical
issue.
Actually, it's happened acouple more times than that, but
none of you know about that.
(47:29):
I'm not telling.
There will be a part two ofthis episode.
Not sure when that's coming,but you know, stay tuned for it.
Now for the outro.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
I'd like to thank you
for listening to another
episode of All Better.
To find us on All Better not ofnow, or listen to us on Apple
Podcasts To modify GooglePodcasts, stitcher and I Heart
Radio and Alexa.
Special thanks to our producer,john Evans, an engineering
(48:01):
company and seven-way drone.
It's like we're subscribed toSM YouTube, facebook, instagram
or Twitter, and if you're not onsocial media, you're awesome.
Thank you for watching.
I hope you enjoyed it.
I'll see you again soon.
Remember, because there's yoursilver.
It doesn't mean you're right,thank you.