Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and thanks
again for listening to another
episode of All Better.
I'm your host, joe Van Wee.
Today's guest is Tony Madioli.
Tony is the president and ownerof Trademark Industrial.
He also holds a Bachelor's ofArts in History and Political
Science.
Today, tony stops by to tell ushis story and struggles with
(00:25):
addiction, his entry intorecovery, his approach in being
a family man and an entrepreneur.
We focus the discussion on theback end of this, the
relationship between a newfoundrecovery and an entrepreneurial
spirit.
We also discuss Tony'smanagement style, with half of
(00:50):
his workforce being in recovery,which could lead to some
complexities, but he's been ableto navigate it well and
encourage others to become thebest that they can be in
business and in life.
So let's meet Tony Madioli.
We're here with Tony Madioli, myfriend, and today's discussion
(01:12):
I thought would be, you know.
Let's find out who Tony is andwhat entrepreneurship and
recovery is for him, becausewatching him over the last two
years is just inspiring, notonly for his own life and vision
, how he incorporated an entirepopulation of people in recovery
(01:33):
into his vision and business.
So welcome Tony.
Hey Joe, how are you?
I'm not bad.
Thank you for having me.
So, tony Madioli, I knew acousin before you.
I always love the last name.
It's fun to say Madioli.
It sounds like a dish.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, I like the last
name as well.
Actually, I tell my wife everyday that she should thank me for
the last name.
You know it.
Just it seems to flow a littlebit better than what hers was.
But she, you know she's nothappy with that.
I mean she's happy with thelast name.
It's probably just not thenicest way to go about it.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You know it is what
it is.
It's in good fun.
She knows I love her.
It's a joke.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
What part of Italy is
Madioli from?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Central Perugia, yeah
.
So yeah, not a lot of, not adark complexion I have a cousin
that's incredibly dark, so Idon't know how that really works
.
But central by Rome, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, do you know the
background of your name?
What is?
Madioli Matteo Matt I don'tknow.
Yeah, no, I don't either, Idon't, I don't really follow
that much it sounds like forFolly, and maybe just a basil
and oil.
Yeah, yeah, tony, just to startwith a story, tell me, give me
(02:46):
a little summary of growing upand where you grew up.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
All right.
So I'm from Taylor,pennsylvania, a small town about
20 miles away, and you know,normally when I would go into
places and hear people's stories, one of the things that always
caught my attention is they saidthey knew you know from the
very start that they were infact an alcoholic.
(03:09):
And I think, looking back nowon my life, I would be able to
tell you that the same is true.
I was from a single parenthousehold in the time that there
was still sort of a stigmaattached to single parent
households in a small town.
My father, who wasn't reallyyou know, he was around but not
(03:30):
in the picture as far as ahousehold that much had its wind
brother and they were notoriousfor some behaviors.
So when I went, I went from aCatholic school to a public
elementary school in fourthgrade and it kind of set the
tone for what would carry methroughout the rest of my
(03:53):
elementary and high school yearsand it's actually the reason
that I'm doing what I'm doingright now.
As far as the school board isconcerned and I say that to say
from the moment that I got tothis school, I was kind of
labeled because of who?
Well, because of the lack ofthe traditional nuclear family
(04:15):
and because of who my father andhis twin brother was, I was
labeled as the bad kid.
You know, I was going to be thebad kid and it was kind of one
of those self-fulfillingprophecies.
So now I find myself yearslater trying to do everything
that I can to combat that, where, you know, a big part of what
I'm doing right now is I don'twant kids to go into these small
(04:38):
town environments with schooland be labeled and kind of have
to deal with that whole stigmabecause it impacts the mightily
moving forward.
So that's kind of my aim rightnow.
But that was a big part of myyounger childhood was just, you
know, having to deal with thefact that I was being treated
(05:01):
like I was a bad kid.
It really hurt my pride andself-esteem and I think you know
, as we both know, that plays alarge role in our alcoholism.
So from the very start of myeducation I was basically told I
was bad and not good enough, orat least that's how I heard it.
And what was worse to me wasthese were all considered really
(05:25):
credible teachers that werelabeling me so I couldn't go
anywhere and say, hey, I thinkthis is kind of unfair because
these were teachers that hadbeen in the district for a long
period of time and, you know,had a good name and it was just.
It was a difficult time.
So you know, that was myelementary school experience and
(05:47):
then, as I got into junior highschool, some of that stigma
followed of, you know, being thebad kid.
What years are we talking?
We're talking, like you know, 96, 97, 98.
Still at that point where, likeright now, it's pretty normal
to have a single parenthousehold and it wasn't abnormal
then, but there was still, youknow, a stigma attached to it,
(06:10):
Just for anyone to have context,if this is too general.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
You said you're from
Taylor and Taylor connects with
Old Forge but there's a.
There's a hard border betweenthe schools but there's a
similar demographic of you knowItalian families, really
close-knit kind of neighborhoods, and I just find it really
interesting that you observedthe stigma of a single parent.
(06:35):
I was raised by a single parentbut you do feel it and I don't
know if the perception is alwaysgiven or if I was just
perceiving it myself.
When I'd be at friends' housesand they had two parents, the
household seemed more stable,they had more money.
There's a socioeconomicdifference and you know, I
noticed it when I was a kid.
I just find it interesting.
(06:57):
I'm glad you talked about thatbecause that is substantially
real and it's not like anintentional harm.
But man, you pick up on it.
At that age you might not beable to talk about it, you don't
even know what you'reexperiencing, but I think
alcoholics that have insight tothemselves see where that begins
.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, no, and maybe
you don't understand the how and
the why, but you see ithappening, you know you're being
treated differently and yeah, Ijust I think there's, you know,
a strength in the nuclearfamily and having the mother and
father under the same roof and,to be honest with you, along
with it's a big part of mysobriety in how I try and carry
(07:34):
myself right now.
I try and make sure that mychildren don't ever have to deal
with any of the struggles thatI had, you know, with with
whether it was apparent notbeing present.
I mean, I had a wonderfulmother, fully engaged all the
time, but she was also younger,so she was kind of putting
together her life at the sametime as she was raising me and I
(07:54):
don't think I ever came, youknow, secondary to her rate
building her own life, but itjust, it is what it was.
She had to work with what shehad to and she kind of had to
rebuild her life because she hadme when she was 17, had just
turned 18.
So there were some differentdynamics at play there that I
see now, years later, thatreally really affected me and
(08:18):
you know they would follow intojunior high school.
And what I said before is peopleknow from the very beginning
whether or not their alcoholicsare going to have a problem with
alcohol.
I just knew immediately.
You know, I would hang out witha lot of older kids.
That's the normal story forguys like us.
(08:39):
We somehow get mixed up in thecrowds that we're not supposed
to right, because we're toldwe're bad kids, right.
So now I'm going to fulfillthis prophecy that's been laid
out in front of me.
I'm a bad kid, I'm a bad kid,so now I'm going to behave like
one, and I did so with olderkids.
And you know, I started to drinkfrom an early age and I felt
good.
(08:59):
You know, I felt like there wasa weight lifted, like all of
these different titles that havebeen placed upon me none of
which were good Kind of didn'tmatter anymore.
I could just be myself, I couldbe loose and, you know, have
fun, okay.
And so that carried me allthroughout.
You know, there was really nohuge signs of trouble, but there
(09:21):
was alcohol.
I did fairly decent in school.
I would definitely label myselfan underachiever, someone that
wasn't that committed to doingwell in school but was smart
enough to like just kind of getby.
I played sports and then lateron in my high school life, my
(09:41):
senior year, I realized thatthere was going to be a problem
with beyond alcohol, that ifthere was any other substances
involved it was going to be areal big problem for me.
To kind of elaborate on that,my senior year of high school
football I broke a non-weightbearing bone in my leg and I
played on it and, excuse me, itwas painful but I was able to do
(10:08):
so and I did so through thehelp of prescription pain
killers.
I have a cousin who's a doctorand he he was very, very careful
with how he prescribed me.
He literally didn't want toprescribe me anything because of
my family history, but he knew,you know, I had to play.
I had this issue and helped meas best as he knew how.
(10:28):
So it was incredibly painfuland I was at a party a Saturday
after a football game.
I was on painkillers and there'sthere's mud everywhere and a
girlfriend of mine at the timehad gotten her car stuck in the
mud and the day prior it washard to even walk In absence of
painkillers.
(10:48):
So now, fast forward 24 hours,I'm at this party under the
influence of painkillers andhere I am broken bone in my leg
pushing her car out of the mud.
And it was one of those momentswhere, like, I felt like you
know, superman, someone thatgives you their first initial
description of how they feltunder opiates it was just, you
know, you're like outsideyourself and you're stronger and
(11:11):
you're smarter and you're morepersonable, like all of those
things hit me all at once andLooking back now I'm just like,
wow, that was.
You know, that was a bigproblem for it to have the
effect on me that it had and,yeah, it was pretty dramatic.
So Thankfully, I didn't getinto any of that for for years.
(11:32):
After the fact, I just reallydidn't.
It wasn't something that was abig part of my life yet there
was drinking, there was partying, there was going to school, but
it wasn't.
It wasn't that bad yet, did you?
Speaker 1 (11:45):
at that time
understand the relationship of
pushing that truck, feeling allthose senses of new confidence,
self-esteem?
Did you know who's beingprovided by the medication?
Did you know the medicationcould Provide that outside of
just physical pain relief, whereyou did you have a bond already
(12:07):
or connection, knowing that wasthe opiate?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I would say that I
knew, but I probably didn't know
, and it was good that I didn'tknow the degree, yeah, to which
it impacted me, because if I'dhad, I probably would have
started my long-term abuse andaddiction at that point.
Okay, I knew that thatsomething was different,
something was better, I feltbetter, but I didn't exactly
(12:31):
hold that opiate responsible,thankfully.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, okay, yeah, I
was wondering that sound curious
because, yeah, it could havebeen love to where all these
feelings come Right.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Right, yeah, it was
just it was.
You know, looking back now I'mjust like, wow, that was, that
was a scary moment.
But thankfully at the time Ididn't realize where all these
feelings were coming from.
Because, you know, if I had, mystory Would probably be
dramatically different, or atleast I'd tack on four more
years of really steady abuse Towhere I was at.
So, you know, I kind of got outof that unscathed.
(13:04):
I Went to college.
I went to college in Fall of2003.
I transferred a lot.
That was kind of my my story ofUndergraduate not really
feeling uncomfortable, justunsure really of what I was
gonna do, what I wanted to do.
I had some really positive maleinfluences on me at the time,
(13:27):
one of which was was the cousinthat you were speaking of
earlier, pretty prominent namein the area, and he served as as
a really Terrific role modelfor me because he was a six
successful guy as a young guy,but that's and he was a lot of
fun and he was well.
And he was a lot of fun,definitely a lot of fun, and you
(13:48):
know that that played a role aswell In just not understanding
like the difficulty with thatrelationship at the time was.
I saw this guy who really was alot of fun and a good guy and
he had so much success, but Ididn't have to see any of the
hard work, right, yeah.
And I looked at the formula of,like, how did this guy become
successful?
(14:08):
I saw, okay, well, he'spersonable and and he partied
and and obvious, right, but butI was missing that with the guys
that wake up, in the morningright, right.
So in my eyes was just like, wow, this guy's done all this and
he's found success.
Why can't I, you know, justkind of follow this blueprint?
And and what I was missing wasthe years of sacrifice and
(14:31):
struggle that the man hadundertaken in order to find
success.
But it served as a template oflike okay, this is kind of who I
want to be.
I was fairly well spoken,fairly well read, and they
figured okay, I can do the wholelaw school thing.
So I'd gotten throughundergraduate and I graduated
(14:52):
from Wilkes in January 2008 andI was studying for the LSATs.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Would you, would you
graduate?
What was your undergrad degree?
Speaker 2 (15:03):
History and political
science history.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Okay, it's a
political science.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah so, but in
gearing up to take the LSATs the
first time, this was now thesecond time that opiates had
crept back into the picture.
There was this girl in a classof mine at Wilkes and you know
she said hey, I have, I havethese things.
They're gonna help you, they'regonna help you study.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
They're gonna help
you push trucks out of the mud.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, they're gonna.
They're gonna help you study,push trucks, whatever it is you
want to do, and Not one to everreally say no.
I said, okay, let's, let's seesure.
So so I did and I studiedharder and, in my opinion, right
.
I was more committed, Iunderstood things Wow and yeah
(15:50):
let me just a quick interruption.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Were you ever labeled
with ADD ADHD?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I yes, I mean now for
like.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
The reason I ask is
the relationship you're now
having with opiates is reallyinteresting and it's unique
because Most people who have itget that feeling from an
amphetamine Mm-hmm.
And now you're saying you'rehaving this deeper focus, a
deeper attention.
A relaxation usually causesthat maybe more dopamine Mm-hmm,
(16:22):
but with the opioid rewardsystem you're having a really
unique effect.
What the opioids doing is isquieting your mind, like that is
wild.
That's really awful becauseyou're gonna bond really.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, and there was a
bond there there was.
So, yeah, I mean, I I had goneto doctors that had had that
label, but I think at the time Idon't want to say I Disregarded
, I just knew.
You're talking two years downthe road now, when I was really
a mess.
So I don't think it did me anybenefit to label me ADD or ADHD.
I just knew I had this gorillaon my back which at at this
(16:57):
point, would have been addictionand I needed to deal with that
first and foremost.
But yeah, no, that was therelationship and that was the
initial relationship that I hadwith with opiates, where
everything slowed down, I wasable to focus.
I really I liked myself right,which which was a big part of it
, you know, I felt confident.
I just all these things thathave created an obstacle in my
(17:20):
life Kind of fell to the waysideand it was just me happy with
who.
I was More energetic than everbefore and obviously that
doesn't last very long andyou'll see that moving forward
in the rest of my story.
But that was, you know, myinitial introduction to opiates
were scary, you know, because itwas all good.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
It was all benefits.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, there was
nothing that anyone could tell
me at the time to say like, hey,this could really hinder your
life, because it was like, no,absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
That's what you know
people who are really hurt by
viewing someone else's addictionof a loved one or a friend.
That just seems so irrational.
Why are they doing this?
What they're failing to see isthe beginning.
The benefits were phenomenal.
Yeah, they were resources.
The drug was providing thatmost healthy or well-balanced
(18:11):
people have the tools for, ordon't have the trauma or those
results.
That's the bond with the drug.
And there's this desperate hope.
Why can't?
Well, this is the only thingthat's ever worked to provide
these things.
I don't think they take thatinto account when they see such
irrational, destructive behaviorby the end.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
No, no, definitely
not.
And don't forget too, let'stalk about time and place and
I'll get into this a little bitmoving forward.
But this was still at a timewhere now we're lucky, we have
this huge recovery community andeveryone really understands
what's going on and we'resympathetic to the addict and
we're doing everything we can tohelp them.
This you're talking 2008,.
(18:53):
There was still very much thatstigma of you know you're a bad
guy or you're a bad person anddistinction's a stigma,
Alcoholism versus heroin, Heroinversus even cocaine.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I mean they were all
segmented populations and I
would even experience it intreatment centers.
I think you would see people oh, these are the bad, bad.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
That's a different
addiction, yeah by the end I got
the worst of the worsttreatment, where the nurses were
even like let's stay away fromthis guy.
You know he's a no-hopper.
Yeah, man, you know, I thinkthat's where we got to by the
end.
But yeah, that was therelationship that I'd had with
it, where it just really helpedme focus, helped me study.
I felt better and I did welland I was ready to go to law
(19:42):
school.
But there was this six-monthgap and it was probably, looking
back, the worst thing thatcould have ever happened to me,
because I graduated at the endof January.
I was ready to go, but Icouldn't go until August of 2008
.
I didn't have much of a workethic.
I wasn't.
Work ethic wasn't reallystressed in my household.
(20:04):
So I was just like you knowwhat?
I'm gonna have a great time forthe next six months.
That was really my plan at thetime.
I deserved this is what Ithought, and one of the things
that I set out to do was reallydevelop a relationship with my
father, and the reason that I'dhad at the time was because I'd
known he had been in an act ofaddiction for a long time.
(20:27):
So I set out knowing that likeI'm gonna shake things up over
these next few months and that'sexactly what I did.
I went off to the races for asix-month period where things
got incredibly out of controlreally fast.
I'm not a guy that can takesubstances well.
(20:48):
I know this now and still, youknow, live any semblance of a
life.
I'm just like that allergy issparked in me and triggered and
I'm off to the races and it's arace to the bottom immediately.
But I experienced things inthis time around as the first
time I ever got sick andrealized like, oh my God, I
(21:10):
don't Sick from the withdrawaland opioid.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah which one
Describe it.
What is that?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
like it's like the
worst flu you could ever
experience.
I always picture it as likeyour body is like a sponge being
wrung out, like you just have.
You know your stomach isunsettled, you're hot, you're
cold, you're sweaty, you'refeverish, and the worst part of
all for me was the whole time.
You know that all you have todo is take one little pill and
(21:37):
it's gone you know?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And how long does an
average withdrawal last at this
time?
Like can it be?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
days.
Oh yeah, yeah, five, seven dayson the what is the acute and
then the post-acute longer, butyeah, the immediate is five to
seven.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So anytime you would
just want to reasonably or use
reason or your rational mind tosay I gotta stop this is.
You're still looking at fourdays by yourself having a flu
and resisting what, ending it atany minute you want.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, no, and that
was so the next probably six
years of my life.
That's how it played out,because I didn't, after I
realized what exactly was goingon.
I didn't want this, I didn'twant it.
I didn't want to disappointeveryone, I didn't want to, you
know, be a disaster, behave inthe fashion that I wanted.
That I was, I wanted to achieveon a high level.
(22:31):
I just I couldn't.
So what I would do is, everymonth or so, I would reset the
bar and say, okay, like today isthe day I'm just I'm gonna get
off this, I'm gonna do this.
I would tell myself that everyday, and you know, sometimes I'd
go a day or two and then I justwouldn't be able to bear it
anymore, knowing that there wasa fix readily available.
(22:52):
I probably watched the entireSopranos box set like probably
10 to 12 times.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
I think everyone.
It's a great flu box.
I would watch it with the realflu, but I could always revisit
the Sopranos.
It's still one of the bestshows.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, that was always
my goal.
I was like you know what thisthing is so long that if I just
if I just watch this all the waythrough and think of nothing
else, I could probably get offthis.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Tony's gonna help me
Like he helped Christopher Right
right, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
so that was the
thought.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Now, Tony, let me ask
is there any periods within
that six years where there is nowithdrawal, and if you could
describe the state of your mindin the sense that how you viewed
the problem can you take careof it yourself?
And how you started losingcredibility with yourself,
because I believe most addictsthat your attempts are sincere
(23:44):
the morning you wake up.
I'm gonna have a good life.
I'm planning one.
I'm gonna do this.
When did how did that build upto complete defeat that you
can't even trust your own will.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Just slowly but
surely, after you know, time of
just continually losing thingsand trying, like I said, I
didn't really want, when Ireally understood what was going
on.
I didn't want that, you know,and I knew that.
But some of the resources thatwe have here today weren't
available.
I didn't have insurance at thetime, so it was really hard for
(24:16):
me to find any kind of program.
Anytime that I did get into aprogram, it was normally on some
kind of scholarship where itwas for a limited amount of time
.
So it was just something thatafter time just beat me down,
you know, and after trying forthree, four years probably by
the last two, I just ran with itand I was like, you know, this
(24:38):
is just who I am now and this iswho I'm gonna be.
But you know, there were somegood things in the middle there
where I would try and hang myhat on.
You know, I did go to lawschool the following August.
I very rarely went to class.
When I went to class I veryrarely went sober.
(25:01):
I had people who really cared inthe school reach out and say
you know you're paying a lot ofmoney to be, there, you would
think that you know you'd atleast like to attend, maybe show
up, because they knew when Idid go there were some things
that I could grasp and get ahold of.
I just I couldn't do anythingfor a consistent amount of time
(25:21):
because I was a complete drugaddict by this point there was
just.
You know, I always admiredpeople who were like high
achievers, while inactiveaddiction.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
We all do.
You know that was never me.
From Hemingway to you know anymaniac?
They've killed millions justthinking I could be one of them.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, no and that
kind of let me down that road
for even longer, thinking likeman, I don't need to get sober,
I just need to get a handle onthis, like I had to figure out
when and how I can use.
But for me, the truth is, onceI do, you know, there's nothing
that I'm going to achieve.
There's no good that I'm gonnado for any people in my life,
(26:01):
there's no good that I'm gonnado for my family, friends,
community, and you know that'sgood for me to know.
Now, you know, I can look atthat and say like this is just
who I am and I can accept it,because acceptance during that
time was a big, big part of myproblem.
It kept me sick for a very longperiod of time.
I had to take a leave ofabsence from school.
(26:24):
I was at, I went to rehab twoor three times, ended up getting
myself back in to the school,talking myself back into it.
They allowed me to go back, butit was the same old story.
I just I couldn't keep up.
I couldn't go to school.
There were some interestingthings that happened in the time
.
I had a run-in with one of mywell unbeknownst to me, a run-in
(26:47):
with one of my partners nowwho's been really instrumental
in my life.
I worked in Washington DC overthe summer, but it was just
another thing and a long line ofthings at that time that I quit
because I couldn't function,you know, I just couldn't
function.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
So you were attracted
to the lifestyle though of DC
if you were functional, andpolitics has always been.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
It's interesting.
You said something right in thebeginning of that kind of in
the beginning of what you weresaying, that you were resigning
to the fact this is who you'regonna be and when and how to use
.
To me, when I hear that I thinksomeone in the terms of a
12-step community you're halfwaydone with your first step
Because you're already acceptingthe fact that it's not gonna
(27:34):
change.
Now how do I limit the damageand stay as functional as
possible?
People who get to that pointare almost complete with their
first step.
I see it as that way, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, no, and I think
there's just there's this truth
of like, this is who I am inthis moment and this is where
this has taken me and I can'thide from it anymore and one of
my biggest struggles.
It's very similar to actually afew people in the recovery
community where I had school andthat was like a mirage that I
(28:05):
was able to set up and holdmyself to and say, like, look,
I'm not really that bad becauseI have this right, and I thought
I was fooling everyone.
But the truth of the matter wasI was the only one that was
fooled.
Everyone knew exactly what wasgoing on with me, everyone knew
where I was at, everyone knewthat I wasn't, I wasn't going to
make it and, like you said,halfway through the first step I
(28:28):
was at that point.
But it wasn't until I was ableto at least be honest with
myself in that regard where Iwas able to even look to change
some things.
I had to get to the point tosay this is who I am.
I'm not a high achieving lawstudent who's just eccentric and
uses drugs on the side, like.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I am Smokes a pie.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Right, right, right,
right.
This is who I am and when I wasable to admit that things
didn't get better for a whileyet.
But yeah, it was the first stepin the process.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
two things so you're
coming to terms with.
Hey, you have this condition,I'm going to make it, I'm going
to live with it and minimize it.
That's step one's reallycompleted.
When you consolidate it withtwo, you could work with step
one a long time.
Yeah, yeah, how do we turn thecorner that, okay, this is a
problem, but I'm going to moveforward.
(29:25):
The problems might thecondition of my mind without
drugs, and I'm always going tobe defenseless to a relapse.
How does this end?
And you come to terms with thatthat you're going to have to do
something really radical tochange this.
How does this end up?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Well, you know
society.
Society made it end for me.
Some things happened where youknow, I left school again, I
ended up getting into arelationship with the woman
who's now my wife and I had a.
She got pregnant.
(30:01):
So there were expectations andresponsibilities placed on me
and it was important for me toreally be able to uphold those,
because that was one of thethings that had molded me, in
absence of in my life.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
And you probably did.
You have an idea your wholelife if, when it comes time for
you to be the dad, you did youhave an idea that I'm gonna have
a nuclear family.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I knew that that's
what I wanted.
Yeah, I had no idea what thatwould look like.
So my template for that was,you know, to basically just do
everything that I would haveneeded at that time, that I
didn't have, and that's what Itried to do.
But I got into some trouble ona few occasions and, long story
(30:48):
short, without really gettinggetting into all of it, I was
placed on Lackawanna Countytreatment court and I remember
being in the lady's office atthe time and her saying to me
you know, you can't use drugsanymore or there's going to be
consequences that I'm thinkingto myself like wait a second,
(31:09):
what did I just sign?
What did I just sign myself upfor?
I don't know how to live on adaily basis without these.
So it was pretty scary and, asyou can imagine, my first few
months in the program were awful, you know, and it was just me
in and out of consequences andpeople saying you can't do this
(31:33):
and me not listening and thempunishing me again.
So there was just a lot ofpunishment in the beginning and
finally they had had enough withme not listening to the rules
that they'd set forth and theysent me to a 14 month drug and
alcohol treatment program, andthis is 14 months yeah, 14
(31:54):
months, and this is really whereI could point if I could point
anywhere to say this is where mylife began to change, is this a
blame a lot.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
No, no this was it?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
was it's cool.
Who else is putting 14 monthsback?
Yes, it was called TeenChallenge.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
And it was.
It was a really really intenseyeah, really intense program,
really Christian program.
I was fortunate to meet a lotof good people.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Were you a Christian,
then Would you consider
yourself a Christian or was thatkind of?
Was it alarming that it wasreligious based?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
So what was alarming
to me was some of the overt acts
.
When I went in, like my firstday of going into their chapel,
they called it there was.
There's a lot of charismaticthings going on.
They were not dancing withsnakes, or Well, there was no
snakes, but they were dancing,you know and and I was just like
I don't know that I can do thisWere you raised Catholic?
(32:47):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
That's pretty
abrasive, like it's intense when
you're Catholic.
We don't even touch each other,we just a little handshake at
the Eucharist.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
It was tough and I
remember at the time my mother
had taken me because at thatpoint really that was all I had
left was, was just her.
Everyone else was just like letme stay as far away from the
skies as I can, but I rememberlooking at her and saying I
don't know that I could do this.
You know, I think maybe thealternative, which would have
been probably prison, would havebeen better at that time, you
(33:18):
know when, I was looking aroundI was like, yeah, I don't think
I could do this.
But you know, I also didn't wantto go to prison.
Let's be honest, that wasn'tsomething that appealed to me.
So you sound like you're RPMcMurphy right now one clue over
there, you're just hiding in aChristian camp, right, right,
right so so, yeah, that that'sthat's what I did, and and I
(33:38):
tried my best to, you know, justfor the first time ever, follow
rules and directions and listento them.
And it was intense, like it wasin the summer of 2014 and it
was hot and I was out inPittsburgh.
It was at their Rearsburgcampus.
It was right outside Pittsburghand every day we used to have
(34:01):
to get up and weed whack acemetery like that was my job
every morning.
I'd get up at 7am and take abus and I'd go weed whack all
day, and some of the mostinteresting things you know
happened to me at that timebecause I was able to really
take a look with that forcedsobriety and see like, okay,
where am I, what am I doing, howdid I get here, you know, and
(34:24):
just have some of that quiettime to figure out who I was,
how I'd gotten there and how doI change some things moving
forward.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, I was able to
find, you know, some some forced
sobriety, but but I wasdisciplined first, right, yeah,
you know most alcoholics myselfyou we have no discipline at the
end of an addiction, right?
So even the structure waking upat 7am being part of a day, the
day shift of life, yeah, that'ssubstantial.
Yeah, that does make bigdifferences.
(34:52):
Was there 12-step orientedactivities there?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
no, no.
So that's what I was just aboutto get into my time there.
I would look at it more as likea quiet or silent reflection of
everything that had happenedover the previous, you know, six
years and, and some of it goodand some of it bad.
But I was forced to really takea look at it, right?
Because no longer could I sayto people that you know I was
(35:19):
doing this and and even though Iwas a mess, I was eventually
going to find some success, Ipromise.
You know, I just had to leteverything fall all around me
and say this is who I am, youknow I'm, I'm, I'm an alcoholic
and I need to figure some ofthis stuff out.
So that was the first part ofthat program was very work
intensive.
The second part is where, youknow, things really started to
(35:43):
click for me in how I was goingto build my life.
Moving forward.
I went out to this campusactually I think this was
Rearsburg, it's right outside ofReading, the one in Pittsburgh,
I forget what it was called.
It wasn't Rearsburg.
Rearsburg is outside of Reading.
That's where you went.
For the second part was eightmonths and you would get a job
there and my job was to goaround to flea markets and Sam's
(36:10):
Clubs and Walmarts and sellChristian coffee and novelty
items.
So, like, I was the guy at theflea market with, like, the
crosses and the bags of coffee,and I'd be talking about the
coffee, because they made theirown brand of coffee so I'd be,
you know, slinging this coffeeall day at flea markets.
But but probably the biggestday that I could remember there
(36:33):
was when I had to go sell mycoffee and novelty items at a
Sam's Club outside of Harrisburgwhere, the year prior, I had
just been in law school and Iran into people that had still,
you know, been to school and andit was huge.
(36:53):
It was huge for me because Iwas so fearful, you know, and I
was so embarrassed and I feltnaked to the entire world.
But it was so important for meto just say this is who I am.
Well, this is where I'm at inmy process, and until I could
admit those truths to myself, Ican't move forward.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Wow, there's so I was
gonna.
I wanted to ask you about this,but you just know this whole
scenario how would you describeto someone who maybe wouldn't
understand, okay, who wouldexperience embarrassment from
that situation?
But we both know some humblingexperiences create strength that
is very unlikely to disappearagain that you, there's
(37:39):
something fundamental happeninglike a change your powers, not
coming from position or status.
That's coming from what youthink about yourself.
Is that what you're describing?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
yeah, I mean there
was just there was no more room
for interpretation.
This is who I was.
I had to admit it to myself andI had to admit it to others,
you know.
And I was for the first time,at peace and not having to lie
you know about who I was, or tryand build this facade to say,
hey, I'm eventually gonna bethis, it was.
(38:10):
This is where I'm at.
The choices in my life thatI've made thus far have gotten
me to this place where I am now,you know, accepting donations
and selling coffee at Sam's Cluboutside of Harrisburg, and for
better or worse, that's whereI'm at dude, you never told me
this, so like it makes a lot ofthings gel and crystallize in my
(38:30):
head of what I've seen over thelast year when you've done with
your business yeah, yourcurrent business wow, that's,
that's.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
That's inspiring,
because I've had similar
situations.
I know those situations beforeI was ready.
They were real painful and ittook me out of a fantasy life
that was protecting me and Iwasn't ready, and other times it
just put like some fucking hardbark on my spine.
I'm like, no, I'm gonna bealright, this is who I am.
Fantasy doesn't offer refuge tome anymore yeah, yeah and no.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
That.
That was that exactly.
You couldn't have summed it upbetter.
I had to live in the moment,with where I was at and at the
same time that I was going outto these places and and selling
this, the coffee and noveltyitems and everything.
I was also reading a book,because it wasn't very 12 step
related, just like you said, butI had a lot of time in in
chapels and reflecting on mylife and I read a book called
(39:25):
failing forward.
Okay, and, and I'll never, I'llnever forget it, because it
changed my whole perception ofwhat failure meant.
And failure doesn't have to bethe end.
It could be the springboard tosomething new, so that, along
with you know, selling theseitems and finding success.
With that.
I mean, they used to pay us apercentage at the rehab of what
(39:48):
we would sell.
They actually had to cut itdown a few times because of you,
volume, incredible, volume,medieval, incredible amounts of
coffee.
So, you know, but but for thefirst time in my life not in my
life, but for the first time inmany years I'd found success
again and was able to say, like,hey, there are some things that
(40:09):
that I can do.
That may not be what I said Iwas going to be, but I'm going
to be okay, you know.
Like if I'm not, you know, alawyer in Scranton, pennsylvania
, and I don't run my lifesimilar to those that I've
looked up to, I'm going to beokay, that's okay.
Like that's not the end, it'snot complete failure.
(40:30):
And that's kind of where I wasat getting out of this program,
fast forward and saying I, youknow, I graduated from this
program in July of 2015, youknow.
So I completed the 14 months,which was great for me because I
quit everything up into thatpoint.
I couldn't complete anything.
(40:50):
So I was starting to build someconfidence, you know, and and I
had, I had a kid, you know ninemonths, nine, ten months prior.
That made everything, you know,real.
That, like I had to, I had toget it at this time because,
before I could, I could reallylove myself again.
I had my oldest son's names,nico, and I had him, you know,
(41:15):
to really find my strength fromto say you know, I need to do
this because he doesn't need tolive the same life that I did.
He needs and deserves better.
So that's, that's what I I setout to do, you know?
Speaker 1 (41:28):
yeah, that's um,
there's no better reason yeah,
no better reason.
You always hear the cliche thatyou gotta do it for yourself.
I don't kind of still grossesme out.
I wanted to do it for my wife,who was, it'll be, who I want it
to be engaged with.
I want to do it for my familyand In the midst of wanting it
(41:50):
for those people, I find myselfMm-hmm.
I don't know what that otherstatement fully means.
There's no sense of self to mewithout others like so, without
my connect, the connections Iwanted to save.
So you get sober and there's a,there's a permanence to this.
Let's skip around a little bitto the sense.
Your first two years of truesobriety.
(42:13):
You start to approach aprofessional life.
You have a knack and and strongabilities and sales, talking to
people, sincerity.
How does that?
How does that go before youdevelop the current business you
have now?
What was the driving force tomake your own business?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Well, just so I was
at.
I was at this place where I hadReally started to find some
success financial success andput some pieces of my life
together.
But I was also at a place thatwas successful in spite of
itself.
It wasn't very well run, youknow.
(42:57):
There were a lot of issues withit on a daily basis and I
started to look at it from thebig picture and say like, hey,
you know, I can not only do this, but I could treat the, the
components in it, a little bitbetter, because the salesman who
most were in recovery Weren'tweren't valued and weren't
treated that well.
So I kind of wanted to takethat model Like remember the
(43:19):
BASF commercials back in theearly 90s where it was like we
don't make the products you buy,we make the products you buy
better.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah, I have a big
recollection.
Oh yeah, I was thinking a teamAmerica.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
That that's where I
was kind of at with it, where I
was like okay, so there's,there's this business and I see,
I See the demand for it, I seethe market it's robust, but
let's, let's fix the flaws andclean it up and, you know, treat
people with integrity and treatpeople in recovery with
kindness.
We don't need to treat them asthough their possessions are, or
(43:52):
we don't need to abuse them orcut them down.
And that was really the basisof of of Forming the idea of how
it was going to build my ownbusiness and just knowing what
sells, knowing what the marketis, knowing what not to do, and
then knowing you know that we, I, could do better in how I treat
(44:14):
people, especially those inrecovery, because so you start
it with.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
A large population Of
your team was in recovery and
I've watched you, yourmanagement style.
We were in a property togetherfor about a year, mm-hmm, and I
was inspired and I was like holyshit, wow, he gets it.
Because like I didn't know youall too well and Just watching
(44:38):
that I was like he gets, he gets.
How to keep a team, mm-hmmsupport a population that will.
It's just so loyal to you andyou.
Everyone is kind of autonomous.
You treat everyone like anindependent entrepreneur with
their accounts, and yourbusiness grew exponentially like
four or five times over theyear to a national distribution
(45:00):
Center yeah, for tools, and Iwas.
I was just astonished and itgoes to say a lot about not only
your personality but yourmanagement style in a business
that might have been dated andgruff and Not open to the ideas
of treating people with morethan dignity, treating the men's
(45:20):
like you know they have a sayor or a partnership or whatever
you way you would want todescribe it.
I think that was the, thesuccess.
That was just obvious to me,seeing it all the time.
What has happened in the lastyear?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Well, um, so you know
I'd left where I was at and, uh
, you know, did so on my own andjust saying like this is, this
is what I'm gonna do.
But what was really importantto move back from that was was
meeting the people that I had inthe time to make all this
possible.
I had some friends that we havein common in in recovery and
(45:56):
and while going through thesteps and everything, we just
have some side conversationsabout.
You know where I was at, um, asfar as my career was concerned,
what I wanted to do, movingforward, and it began the basis
of of what I'm now my company,now, um, but I don't think I
would be able to do it withouthaving met the people.
(46:18):
Um that I did during that time.
You know they just they helpedme, um Well, from a financial
perspective, obviously, but alsoin planning, like to build a
business.
There were so many things thatwere needed that I didn't even
know about as far as likeinsurance and taxes and
accountants and one of ourfriends is like probably the
(46:40):
most intimidating person I'veever met in my life because he's
so incredibly intelligent andthat I say that to say sobriety
comes into the picture here, um,and, and some of the things
that I've been taught, that Ihad to lean back on because I
was so afraid of this guy'sintellect that I was just like,
wait, you know, the mistrustingalcoholic side of me is just
(47:03):
like Is something going to, youknow, gonna come negative from
this?
Is you gonna take somethingfrom me?
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And I had to.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
You know, take the
leap of faith and trust and say
these are good people and andthey're going to to help me.
And that's exactly you knowwhat?
Speaker 1 (47:17):
happened.
I get, I get that I've.
I've been around people and orin relationships business-wise,
where you know, I feeloutmatched intellectually, but I
always put myself in theposition Sure, I can get screwed
, I'll find out.
I found out after, because onceI start planning not to be
screwed, you're the guy doingthe screw, right, right.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
But I think that
comes from recovery, right Like
yeah it does you let go releaseof fear and saying like this is
all in God's plan and what'sgoing to happen is going to
happen and I'm going to be okaywith that.
I'm not going to be the no, andyou have the moments.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
You described it.
I have my moments where I'mback or you're back at sam's
club and I was okay then and I'mgoing to be okay again, and my
motive wasn't something I didn'teven understand happened, yet
like Stoicism.
Lets me go back and say my kidsmatter, my health matters, I'm
going to be fine.
This is.
This is a fun game and I'mgoing to, I'm going to play it
with my.
(48:12):
You know my code, my moral code.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah, and that that's
.
That's really, um, how I'vetried to, how I tried to look at
it then and measure it then,and now I would say it has been
the greatest blessing, um, Icould possibly have, like the
people that I've met, not justfrom a business perspective but
recovery and friendship I'vemade.
I've met such a tremendous groupof people over the last two,
(48:36):
three years and you know it'sall too cliche, but you always
hear from people like that.
You know, uh, what is it?
Water rises to their level orsomething, something along those
lines to where the, the groupthat you surround yourself with,
the people that you'resurrounding yourself with on a
daily basis, are those thatyou're most Likely to meet and
be like.
And I try and surround myselfwith guys like you know yourself
(48:59):
, and and and the rest.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
You'll end up a
weirdo man.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
And and the rest of
the group that that we're
surrounded with.
I just think it's it's such agood group of people.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
It's it's the way
kids learn.
It's the way you, you stay whoyou are.
You know there's parts of yourbrain I don't know if you ever
you ever read about mirrorneurons.
That's how we you know for likeeight years of your life.
You're just replicating what'saround you and this is how
mammals learn.
It's how they learn, um, how tosmile like if I smiled at you
(49:31):
as a stranger, you would, youmight prompt a smile back and
you, you're not thinking I'mgonna smile.
It's these mirror neurons inyour brain just replicate with
what they're seeing.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
And I.
I like being surrounded bypeople, I trust.
I don't want to be around likeI worked in politics for a while
.
I can't do it anymore.
I don't want to have anadversarial position.
I don't need to.
I just want to be An observeror create nice things, and what
you've done in the last year ortwo years has inspired me.
That it's like, yeah, that'swhat it's about.
(50:01):
You're created something that'snot only providing for dozens
of people and then theirfamilies.
You're doing it in a way thatis fun, enjoyable, it's
rewarding, it's admirable andit's obvious when you watch the
way you operate your business.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yeah, thank you.
I try and once again look tothe past and see, okay, what
didn't work, what hurt people,what pushed people away.
I understand how important yoursense of self needs to be in
recovery, so I never try and doanything that's going to hinder
my salesman's sense of self.
I want them to feel empowered,I want them to feel special, I
(50:42):
want them to feel talented,because at the end of the day,
they are.
I mean, I'm fortunate to havehad such a tremendous group of
guys come on board with me thatI'm able to give them their
leeway to do and operate in thefashion that they see fit, which
is good for me because I don'tever really have to be the
(51:04):
overall dictator or bad guy.
Sometimes I do have to weigh ina little bit more.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
I guess, not to make
it all rosy, there's got to be
some complexities or distressingissues that can rise with being
so close to recovery ofpopulation.
It's your community.
And when you're hiring guys,how have you walked that line?
When, say, there's an issuethat's just work related and
(51:32):
it's not recovery related andthere's a struggle there, or
there's personal concerns andmaybe they're really doing well
at business, at your business,has there been all of those kind
of dimensions happening?
That's a complex hat to switch.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
Yeah, yeah, of course
, and I think what's most
important there is you have tostay in your lane.
If I'm helping this guy withhis recovery and there's some
recovery related issues, I'mgoing to help him there and I'm
not going to allow that to spillover into work.
If there's some work relatedissues, I'm not going to allow
that to spill over into recovery.
I need to keep everything andthis is one of the lessons I've
(52:09):
had to learn in the last 18months where we have to all keep
it in its place in its lane.
Keep work related issues withwhere they are.
We'll keep recovery relatedissues where they are, personal
issues where they are, becausedon't forget a lot of these guys
who are now my employees.
We're all very good friends ofmine for a long time, so I've
had to learn that new dynamic aswell, to say like, yeah, I care
(52:32):
about these guys tremendously,I'm close with them, they're
close with my families, butthere comes a time where I have
to, you know, I don't want tosay lay down the law, but just
set the new path for where we'regoing and expect them to carry
it out, reinforce the norms andthe form of the business, and
then everyone seems to have achance to express anything else
outside of that too.
(52:53):
Yeah, we allow for a lot ofcreativity, as long as it's
within the bounds of what we'retrying to do.
I try, when I bring a new guyin, I try and explain it to him.
In this sense, I want them tofeel as though they're operating
their own business, their ownbook of business, under the
confines of my business.
So you know, I want them tohave the freedom to be able to
(53:15):
operate within my set of rules.
And that's become moreimportant as we move forward
here, because you know, asyou've mentioned, we opened up
two more offices throughout theUnited States within the past
seven, eight months.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
That's very exciting.
I've seen the guys that I wasable to help get placed the
sense of self-esteem, a sense ofprofessionalism come back to
them with your management andyour guidance.
A sense of loyalty, commitmentand then the guys who've left
that job leaving on the rightterms, putting in a notice you
(53:53):
don't leave your job until youhave a new one Just all the
fundamental things that helps Aguy that's been broken for a
couple years re-enter.
That was in the beginning and Iwatched you shepherd and help
these guys realize this is howyou work for a full day again.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Like you said before when wewere talking about the whole
deal in Pittsburgh, you have torelearn everything.
You need to relearn life at itsmost basic level.
Okay, guys, this is called work.
This is what we do.
It's great to do that, you'rereborn.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Yeah, it is Not to be
a Christian, I'm just saying
there's a rebirth.
If I could just stop and startover the base of my life again
and I did that again at 40.
I've been in this positionbefore, but it's liberating to
say maybe these ideas werereally deeper than the bad ones
(54:45):
I had on what I can do for work,who I am, what I'm capable of
doing.
Why can't I start?
Where is my humility?
Why don't I start a littlefarther down?
Maybe I can't handle what Ithink I could, but if I gave
myself even a year or a littletime to rebuild something, you
can't be good at something ifyou don't start from the base,
(55:07):
the bottom, like you did withsales.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Yeah, no, and I think
one of the things we were
talking about before, with justthe fear and being able to
overcome some of that the factthat you've rebuilt your life or
I haven't, and realize that Ican, regardless of what happens,
it keeps me at ease in knowingthat the worst case scenario
playing out in any situation inmy life is okay, because I know
(55:33):
how to rebuild and I know how tojust start from the bottom and
build things back up, movingforward.
So it's a great piece that couldfall over me and knowing that,
despite everything, I'm going tobe okay.
And I try and reinforce thatamongst my guys as well because,
like you said, a lot of them docome in broken, starting from
(55:54):
the bottom.
We want to give them that lightin their eyes back, that
ability to find success.
And then, more importantly inrecovery is to know how to
handle success, like we want tobe able to talk to them about
that as well, because it bringsin a new element of what could
be a problem when they start tofind success right.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
It does, and it's
usually.
You know I could go into a lotof strange things.
It's that driving narrativethat's in your head that if it
becomes too private it could getreal shallow.
It's not about abundance, theabundance that could care for
others.
It's about status or quellingthe pain.
(56:33):
Once I'm good enough, once Ihit this mark, you know all my
enemies will be washed with envy.
The pool will represent that.
This car will represent my.
I diminish the demons that are.
This is all in someone's head.
All of your adversaries onlylive in your head, and when
(56:55):
someone achieves success likethat and they didn't really
consider what that's a tool for,you could be in big trouble.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
Because they haven't
been vanquished.
You still feel empty.
You might not find the rightgirl or you didn't have enough.
The car's just not doing it.
It's sad to see it because youwork so hard to get there and
that's meaningful tokens of some.
But there's got to be a deepersense of that.
(57:24):
I know you've experienced thatand I've experienced that the
plan's got to be bigger.
I think some people's plansjust not big enough when they
get there.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Yeah, well, you know,
and it's not thinking that
you've arrived and alwaysstriving to know that you could
do better.
But I think really the mostimportant, for me at least, has
been the ability to surroundmyself with people that are
going to constantly humble me.
I have people that I call allthe time in recovery.
They keep me in check and,rather than just hearing about
(57:56):
how well I'm doing, they'll askme the challenging questions
that have to bring my problemsto the forefront and start to
address them.
So if I can continue, to youknow it's good.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
I need that we both
have the same.
What are the same calls I make?
I'll call you know, a sponsor,my friend.
Hey, I'm, you know I've beenbickering a lot with my wife.
He's like, well, what'd you dolast week to help her?
Like, who else in your life isgoing to say something like that
, besides a real recoveryrelationship that could
challenge it?
He didn't even ask me what theproblem was.
(58:28):
He's like what'd you do to helpher?
Like, how much did you help herlast week?
And I'm like, fuck man, can'teven let me at least bitch for
two minutes.
Speaker 2 (58:38):
I just want to vent
for right now.
We can get to the solutionlater.
Speaker 1 (58:41):
Yeah, so that's good.
I need that.
I don't need any more shortcuts.
I'm too old and theconsequences are too high.
I want to do more interestingthings and I know you do, tony,
is there anything I should haveasked you, that I didn't, or any
parting words?
Speaker 2 (59:02):
No, I don't know.
I mean I don't think.
So I think we went overbasically everything that we
could have to this.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
Yeah, I would love
for you to come back, especially
if there's some updates in theschool board Recovery and
politics We'll have to talkabout.
Local politics is where it allhappens, baby and
congratulations, tony.
Just you just won right.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
Well in the primary,
in the primary, in the general,
to go to Well, primaries in thisarea are the win right.
No, it's not.
Look, it's a win.
Everything at this point rightnow is a win.
The fact that I'm humbled everyday to think, you know, I have
a guy that puts you've seen it,he puts my signs everywhere.
It's like overkill.
But I drive home and I look atthat and I see like where I'd
(59:45):
been, you know, eight to 10years ago and thinking like how
is this possible that I've signsall throughout this area?
Speaker 1 (59:54):
Riverside school
district.
Yeah for the school board?
Speaker 2 (59:57):
Yeah, and just that
the people are even allowing me
this opportunity.
You know it's humbling and itmeans a great deal to me because
you know, if you look back,that I just never thought that
would have been the case, youknow.
So I think it's a testament toyou know, the sobriety we have
in this area and the people thathave really helped me in my
life on a daily basis.
And also, you know, the otherside of that is the forgiveness
(01:00:20):
that we've experienced in theacceptance as an entire
community Right, because thisisn't 2008 anymore.
Now you have people that were inrecovery and we can really do
things without any kind ofrelated stigma and it's nice,
you know.
It's really nice for all of us.
But someone that's strugglingright now to say like, hey, I
can do some pretty incrediblethings, I'm not going to be held
(01:00:43):
back because people feel acertain way about me in this
area.
So I think that's remarkable.
Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
You could measure the
jumps and leaps in progress
from stigma and treatmentoptions just in our lifetimes,
just in our adult lifetimes.
So I think we're moving in agood direction.
Yeah, all right.
Well, that was Tony Maddiealways.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
All right.
Thank you, joe, I appreciate itvery much.
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
I'd like to thank you
for listening to another
episode of All Better.
You can find us on allbetterfmor listen to us on Apple
Podcasts, spotify, googlePodcasts, stitcher, iheartradio
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Special thanks to our producer,john Edwards, an engineering
(01:01:34):
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Looking forward to seeing youagain.
Remember, just because you'resober doesn't mean you're right.