August 11, 2025 • 41 mins
Meet Maxwell Nee, Chief Revenue Officer at ScoreApp, as he walks you through Scorecard Marketing - a clever way to mix quizzes with data to get quality leads. Maxwell breaks down the psychology of warm leads, shows you how to ask questions that get results, and explains how using personalised insights can boost your marketing game. You'll learn how to build lead-generation tools that actually work and drive up those conversion rates, whether you're running solo or managing a small team.
ABOUT YOUR TEACHER
Maxwell Nee is the Chief Revenue Officer of Scoreapp, a Quiz Marketing Platform with 7,000 paying clients. He's also a multi-award winning entrepreneur, bodybuilder & dancer. He’s been featured in TV, Radio, Forbes, Singapore’s The Business Times & The Australian Business Review.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
Hey marketing rebels, welcome back to All
Marketing School, the showteaching you how to make your
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Today's class is a throwback toone of our favorite free series
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(02:00):
We're so excited to see you backin class for another week of
summer school.
Today, we're going to talk abouta topic that we can summarize in
(02:21):
two words, which is scorecardmarketing.
And even better, this means thatI can ask the lovely guest
teacher here with me today,Maxwell, to introduce himself,
not only by sharing what hedoes, but also by explaining
what scorecard marketing isbecause it's literally the
forefront of the company andwhat you guys do.
(02:42):
So thank you, Maxwell, for beinghere.
I'm gonna let you introduceyourself for us.
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
So I am the I'm an angelinvestor and chief revenue
officer at ScoreApp.
ScoreApp is a quiz marketingplatform.
Think of it as like a crossbetween ClickFunnels and
SurveyMonkey, only about lessthan half the cost.
And we have we've been aroundfor almost five years now.
(03:10):
We have almost 9,000 payingclients all around the world,
more than 100 countries, and wehelp them all to collect more
data from their clients andgenerate highly qualified leads
from their audience.
SPEAKER_01 (03:24):
So even if you are new to it today, hopefully you
can get an understanding of thebehind the scenes and like how
it actually works in a way thatdiffers from maybe I'm gonna use
some bigger words and I'm gonnaremind us of what they mean just
in case.
Instead of looking at coldleads, but it really already
focuses on as a platform and asa strategy and as an
(03:46):
encompassing things that you do,you help generating warmer leads
already from the get-go.
And I think there is an elementin what uh you do, and I also
would recommend uh the book thatthe CEO of the company, uh
Daniel Presley, wrote, which iscalled card marketing, which
really explains the psychologybehind it and the reasoning
behind it.
(04:07):
There is something calledpsychological tension at play.
There is something in that thatactually gets people to take
action.
So I was wondering whether youcould explain this part of it
for us, because it's really atthe beginning or the forefront
of what gets people then tointeract with the app and then
to turn into warm leads.
So, how does psychologicaltension play a role in warming
(04:28):
up these leads?
And how can we actually use itin a way that feels you know
authentic and natural and notnecessarily manipulative or
forced?
SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
Yeah, good question.
So let me explain psychologicaltension, right?
So I want you to imagine apyramid.
So there's a pyramid, at thevery top of the pyramid, there
is, for example, 3% of anymarket that's ready to buy now.
So they're the people that havethe credit card in hand out
(04:57):
there shopping.
You know, if if if they're inthe market to buy a house, they
have their Commonwealth Bankmortgage, you know,
pre-approved, ready to go,right?
And everyone goes for that titleaudience because they're the
ones that are ready to buytoday, they're the only ones
that are ready to potentiallyget a sale from today.
(05:20):
But the issue with thatclientele is that when you are
that certain that you you youwant to fix this problem today
and you're ready to buy today,you typically would have already
decided who you're going to buyfrom, right?
So in my example, if if you'reout there shopping to buy a
(05:42):
house and you already have yourfinance, your mortgage
pre-approved, uh, then ifanother bank comes along and
says, Hey Fab, how would youlike to try our 1% discount
interest rate for your mortgagefor your house buying journey,
you're gonna say, That's reallynice, but I've already made a
decision, I've already, youknow, I've already gone through
that decision-making process forme to take a step back to to
start again.
(06:03):
You know, it's it's just alittle bit cumbersome.
So what psychological tension isis that it helps you to really
choose at another layer of themarket to go for.
So there's a top 3% of themarket that's ready to buy
today, the next 7% of the marketis ready to buy, but they
(06:26):
haven't decided who to buy fromyet.
The psychological tension ofwarming up your leads and
effectively um generatinginterest from them is is
basically bringing that thatseven percent up to the top so
that they're ready to buy.
So it's it's sparking interest,it's educating them, it's
(06:46):
getting in front of them beforethey've made any hard decisions
about their next purchase, uh,which is you know uh a really
exciting place to be because youknow 7% of the market is more
than double the 3% is ready tobuy today.
So you add all three together uhin in your target audience that
you're investing into intomarketing to, and you've tripled
(07:08):
your market as well.
SPEAKER_01 (07:10):
This is actually very interesting because when we
think about this, then wealready can get, first of all, a
bigger pull of the market, abigger group of people that we
can tap into.
So I'm thinking uh marketingspeech is almost we get them
into that consideration stagewhere they're problem aware,
they know they have a problem,and it's just figuring out who's
the best solution for them.
(07:31):
But with that, there is anexciting opportunity, once
again, to actually talk to thesepeople as well more clearly and
more persuasively.
But also there is there can be achallenge, which is we then need
to figure out what are the coreproblems or the main desires
that these potential customershave, right?
So, what questions can we askand or what can we offer them,
(07:55):
especially when it comes to youknow, scorecard is really about
asking questions to get data, toget information, but also then
to provide an initial solutionor some clarity, which kind of
means that it's a greatopportunity, but it requires us
as marketers to think what do Iwant to know from them and what
do I want to give this 7% tohelp them out provide some
(08:19):
value?
So I guess there's twofold tothe question: what are some of
the strategies or things that wecan do to identify and tap into
these desires or problems withthese potential customers?
And also why is it so importantto ask the right questions?
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Yeah, good questions.
Um, you know, the the onlinelead generation game has
evolved, you know, it's beenaround for a while now, it's
been around for more than 10years now, and everyone on the
planet is wise to being sold toin person, and now we're wise to
being sold to online.
So, for example, if if anyone uhif you want anyone to give you
(08:59):
their information, the name,email, phone number, uh, and for
them to basically put their handup and say, hey, look, I'm
giving you permission to sell tome.
I'm a potential client, I'mready to, I'm I'm thinking about
buying.
I might not be ready to buytoday, but I'm thinking about
buying, then uh you need toprovide a lot of value, right?
(09:20):
When when our clients providetheir clients uh, you know,
scorecards and reports andquizzes and everything that that
score app provides, what happensis that the conversion rate
usually doubles or triples.
So a typical lead magnet thatwill convert at say 10, 15%, uh,
and that's like a discount code,a free ebook, a free ticket to
(09:44):
an event, an invitation to um toa webinar or workshop or
something like that, somethingthat they've assigned a notion
or value onto.
And then when they start usingquiz marketing, as typically
they the conversion rateincreases to about 30 to 40
percent.
So you're looking at double, ifnot triple, maybe even
(10:04):
quadruple, your conversion rate.
And why is that?
That's because the consumervalues that process and that
that free piece of value, youknow, three to four times
higher.
That's why they're willing togive you the information for
that amount of money.
So it's all about packaging upas much as you can give away at
(10:25):
scale for free to a you know, bereally generous and sort of
spark that reciprocity.
I see her as the authority forthis problem because she's the
only person that solved it tome.
She's done it to meinstantaneously, and she's done
it for me for free.
SPEAKER_01 (10:43):
I love that you mentioned giving something that
it's so valuable, and yet yougive it away for free.
Like, what can you give away forfree that is incredibly valuable
that goes beyond some of thethings we might expect to be
able to access?
But still, I like the elementyou mentioned also at scale.
Thanks to the quiz, you canstart to then making the right
decision and showing afterwardsas the result, as the final
(11:04):
outcome, something that feelsthat in some way, even if at
scale, still speaks directly tosome of the problems that you
have or some of theparticularities of who you are,
which I think is incrediblypowerful as well.
Personalization can also behappening in other types of
marketing, it doesn't have to bequiz or scorecard marketing.
But I was wondering, is thereanything else that you think
makes it different than thetraditional approaches that we
(11:29):
have?
SPEAKER_00 (11:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, you know, a really commonexample of quiz marketing is the
very classic personal trainerexample.
So we've all seen those ads oror value propositions before
where a personal trainer or agym or a fitness coach will say,
uh fill out these 10 questions,and then I will give you a uh
(11:50):
I'll tell you your exact bodytype, and I'll tell you the
exact food you need to be eatingso that you can reach your
summer goals in say, you know,half the time.
And that's really compelling andpowerful for a few reasons.
Very compelling and powerfulbecause yes, they're they're
giving you something of valuefor free, and it's but what's
really cool is that it'sinstantaneous.
(12:10):
It's not like, hey, you know,fill out this thing and then
I'll call you back in three daysand you might forget about it.
No, this thing is going tocalculate like a little a little
quick personalized, you know,custom calculation for you on
the spot.
Uh, and then it's also verycompelling because it it's very
(12:31):
powerful to tell someonesomething about themselves that
they didn't that they didn'talready know.
You know, it strokes a littlebit of ego, but it's what it
does is that it it gives likeself-identification, self
self-identity, and it and itallows you to to sort of say,
Wow, you know, you have reallyseen and noticed me.
(12:51):
You've noticed that I'm not likeeveryone else, and you've you've
helped me to validate why I feeldifferent and and you know how I
can get to my goals.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
I'm biased, but I really love that being able to
tell people I see you, I thinkthat for me is like invaluable
when it comes to thinking aboutthings.
And actually, that's interestingbecause it's a lot about the
marketing that we teach, whichis human marketing, human-driven
marketing, that is actuallytapping to that emotional piece.
So actually, before we get intothen the package, as in the
(13:24):
experience that you get once yougo through this little journey,
right?
Of this kind of likepersonalized, literally is a
journey.
I was wondering, how do youthink we can balance almost like
the pre the pre-log step, thestep of getting people to
actually, despite being asmaller commitment, still commit
to say, just the personaltrainer example, I want to learn
(13:45):
how to best fuel myself?
Again, this was an example thatyou made.
But you know, we have theemotional appeal, but then we
also have the logical reasoning,and then there's also the
urgency.
So, have you found that thereare some ways that, whether in
the messaging or what isprovided, or anything else that
your uh clients, obviously usingScore app, have used, or maybe
(14:06):
some other ideas that we canthink of when it comes to
creating that marketing messagethat really attracts these leads
to get the next step?
SPEAKER_00 (14:14):
Yeah, so to get anyone to buy anything, you need
three things, right?
You need the logical reason, youneed the emotional pull, and
then you need the urgency.
Without urgency, nothinghappens.
So you could have someone with acredit card in hand ready to
buy, but in their life, there'sjust no urgency, you know.
(14:35):
Like they they they want tosolve this problem, but why not
solve it a year from now?
Like, why spend the money?
Why have the money leave yourbank account now?
You know, so that's that'surgency.
And I'll give you an example ofof all three, you know, also
within within the gym example.
So I used to do digitalmarketing for a for gyms in and
(14:56):
around where I lived, and thethe maximum average that a gym
would earn it was about twomillion bucks a year.
And then all of a sudden Istumbled across this gym that
wanted to hire a digitalmarketer and they were earning
eight million dollars a year.
I thought, wow, you're you'refour times larger than every
other gym, and you're a similarsize.
Like, how does that work?
And then I said to them, What'syour sales process?
(15:18):
And they said, We have a veryunique sales process, which was
basically a scorecard.
So what they would do is everyTuesday, they would provide uh a
free body scan to all of theirto anyone that walks past their
gym.
And this body scan, every othergym was charging$30 for it, but
they'd give it for free.
So that ticks the first box,right?
(15:40):
Like logical, you get a logicalfree outcome that I'm gonna
shout you, you know, I'm gonnapay for it for you, which is
which is really awesome, verykind.
Everyone wants to hang out withthose types of people.
So that that's that's thelogical pull.
Then obviously, you know, whenthey go to the gym, they they do
the scan, they start seeingpictures of people that are in
really great shape, and theythink, oh, you know, what would
(16:01):
my life be like?
You know, they start to feelwhat would my life be like if I
was in that great shape?
I'd feel so cool, I'd feelconfident, I could wear these
clothes again that I that Ihaven't been able to wear for
such a long time.
That's like the that's the zest,you know, like that's like the
sexy emotional sex factor.
And then once they get theresults, they used to complete
(16:23):
this body scan.
And what this body scan would dois it'd look at your muscle
mass, your fat mass, uh look atyour your muscle to fat ratio,
so your body fat percentage, andthen it'll also look at your
internals, like your visceralfat.
So visceral fat is like the fatthat's around your organs, and
you shouldn't have too much ofthis because, as you can
imagine, if you have too muchfat around your organs, it
(16:46):
causes things like high bloodpressure, you know,
perceptibility to diabetes andyou know, health risks, right?
Where you you'll have you'll bein the hospital, you have
needles in you, and all thattype of stuff, which no one
wants to have.
This gym would tell everyonethat and educate everyone
through that journey, right?
So there's a logical aspect,here's where you are, here's
(17:06):
where, here's where you want tobe, and they will show you on a
piece of paper that you are 24%obese, you know, and and then
they'll say that to you, right?
So they'll they'll give you arating on a score of say one to
ten, and they'll tell you, youknow, you're floating out of
three, and at a three, uh, youknow, you you might die, um, you
(17:26):
might die 20 years earlier, typeof thing.
So that's the urgency.
And then I said to them, whenyou took people through this
process, what did that what wasyour what was your conversion
rate?
And they and guess what theysaid?
They said 98%.
98% of people that went throughall of this, by the time they
(17:47):
went through all of it, theythen were sold into a program,
like a gym program or gym setupthat was four times more
expensive than everyone else's,but the conversion rate was 98%
because it ticked off logicalreasoning, yes, emotional
reasoning, yes.
And most of all, it really,really ticked off the urgency
(18:08):
for all of these leads.
SPEAKER_01 (18:09):
So there is an element in there to think about
once you know the topic, whichwe'll talk about now as well.
Once we know the topic of thequiz that we want to run and how
we want to present that, is alsokind of stepping back and asking
ourselves, okay, how can we showthe benefits and how the
benefits can once again we'rethinking about if you are
thinking about different typesof products.
(18:30):
I think health can be a verygood example, but also there's
an urgency that I think could bedifferent than others.
But then we've got time saving,we have money saving, money
making.
There are other things that wecan think of that can have that
level of just urgency.
And I think for me, mysuggestion would be from my
perspective, is just the moretangible you can make it, the
better as well.
(18:50):
I think sometimes it caneverything can feel a bit
fluffy, and even if you feelthat what you have might not,
first of all, if you don't wantto use urgency in a way that
doesn't feel natural or ethicalto you, or you don't have
anything that you can feel isurgent enough, remember that
there are little tangible thingsthat everybody is experiencing
that you can help your audiencewith.
(19:10):
And I think that can really helpconsolidate, even if you maybe
it's not as natural or easy foryou to do.
And I think that's one of thethings that sometimes we forget.
Now, with that in mind, thefinal thing I wasn't gonna ask,
you give us some great ideas.
Is there anything that you canthink of?
Some elements or some thingsmaybe tied to what to what we
said about what we need to makesure that is in our landing page
(19:32):
in this case, like the presents,right?
Our quiz or our scorecard.
Is there anything that you thinkwe need to definitely have in
that page to get people to clickthat starting button?
SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
Yeah, so we um well, first of all, a landing page is
just like any other landingpage.
So you've got the title, whichdoes 80 to 90% of the heavy
lifting.
You know, it's a bit like thetitle of a book, the title of a
news article, you know, everyonejust has a book by its cover
because that's just how youthat's the only information that
(20:06):
you have.
And then so your title might,you know, your title needs to
offer something that peoplewould pay for, right?
So find out, you know, why howyou could generate, you know, 20
more leads a month, or find outuh why you're not generating 24,
you know, an extra 20 leads amonth, or find out why how AI
(20:30):
could affect your business andpotentially hurt your business,
you know, like things likeevents that people would invest
time into to learn, if not timeand money.
Then you also want to, you know,we also did a study and we
looked at a couple hundredlanding pages, and there was a
bunch that converted about 15%higher than the others, and all
(20:53):
they had was a freebie on thepage, right?
So people love freebies,especially if they're genuine
freebies, they're not like, oh,you have to you have to jump
through all of these steps andhoops to to get to this.
So freebie might be, yeah, youknow, you fill out this, you get
your you get your scorecard, um,but then you also get a free
ebook, or you get a free ticketto something, or you might get a
(21:17):
you know, a free mini course.
You know, mini courses workreally well as well, because
especially if you're in anindustry where you're selling
education, where you'rebasically selling courses, you
know, giving everyone like alittle test drive of your of
your products is a good place tostart.
SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
I never heard that one before.
Like I I intuitively Iunderstand it, but I was like,
oh yeah, that's actually a veryinteresting point.
It's just kind of giving anextra little thing before, as
you say, people have to jumpthrough the hoop.
I call it like give the thefirst exchange of value, which
is even if the email is notthere yet, they will be then
asked to conversely share theiremail.
It's still that little work thatthey have to do to get the
(21:53):
answers that they're lookingfor.
So that's actually a veryinteresting take as well that
maybe a lot of people haven'ttried yet.
So thank you for that.
Um actually, now is what I wantto ask a few questions.
I'm gonna go through a couple ofsteps, obviously, in setting up
your quiz and your scorecard aswell.
I'm pretty sure that the answerto this question could be it
(22:13):
depends when it comes to what iseffective.
It can be it depends on whatyou're trying to ask and what
what what you want to know.
But there must be at least someguidelines, maybe it's more the
don'ts than the do's.
Because I want to I we lovesurveys, questionnaires,
quizzes, we love all of this.
And I think when it comes tolead scoring, especially,
because then we're getting dataand information about these
(22:35):
people, there are things that wecan do to make it even more
effective for us and obviouslymore impactful for us.
So, how do you make sure thatyour questions actually get
really good insights for you asmuch as excuse me, also
obviously you know, taking theprospects to a journey?
What I'm trying to say is how dowe get the right questions in
(22:57):
for us without overwhelmingthem?
SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
Yeah, good question.
So it used to take someone, anaverage person about a day and a
half to get this all set upbecause it is copywriting, it is
creative work, it isimagination, it is putting a lot
of effort into your business,and it is like building a
website from scratch.
You know, you've got to work outwhat to call things, move things
(23:21):
here and there, change colours,change fonts, all that type of
stuff.
But now we actually have an AIwizard in the platform that you
could use where it'll ask you, Ithink about between five to ten
questions, you niche youraudience, the the theme of your
scorecard, and then it'll writeyou know six to seven hours of
copywriting for you, and whichis basically like draft one,
(23:45):
two, and three to just get youpast that that writer's block
and give you inspiration tostart to get going.
So there's that.
And then you know, we've seenscorecards that do really well
that have 40 questions, we'veseen some that do really well
that have 10 questions.
So it's not really the the thenumber of questions or what the
questions are, it's the outcome,you know.
(24:06):
Like everything else, clientsonly care about what they get
from it.
Uh, you know, how you get themthere is is is your business,
but what where you get them tois what they're interested in.
So, you know, positioning theoutcome of what you have to
offer as as a really big burningproblem that they would love to
(24:29):
solve is will give you as muchof a head start as you could
possibly get.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
And I'm gonna do a quick follow-up on that because
I love that.
If there's any kind of exampleor idea that you have of some
questions that really worked,that would be great.
Just to give us a couple ofnuggets to think about.
SPEAKER_00 (24:44):
Yeah, so I'll give you a really good example.
Um, if you ask someone, anyone,any general audience, you know,
uh like a very broad question,like where would you love to be,
or like what goal, what are yourgoals for 2025?
You know, what do you want?
Um it typically a lot of peoplewill stumble on that question,
(25:08):
or they'll give you an answerthat that that doesn't tell you
a lot because um that question'scoming from like a uh it the
answer to that question most ofthe time, if you ask people on
the spot, it'll come from a verysurface, surface-level place,
like you won't get really deepinformation out of them.
But if you were to rephrase thesame question and say, you know,
(25:30):
what was the worst thing thathappened in 2024 that you would
love to never happen again?
Everyone can answer thatquestion with a lot more
conviction and veracity, andthat tells you almost the exact
same thing, like just from theother side of the coin.
So typically, if you if you havea scorecard and it just goes
(25:53):
through, tell me all the, youknow, what's the one thing you
don't like in, let's say you'rea life coach.
You say, what's the one thingyou don't like in your personal
life right now?
I'll tell you X.
What's the one thing you don'tlike in your in your business
and your career right now?
Let's tell you X.
What's the one thing you don'tyou don't like about you want to
change about your health rightnow?
What you think could be better,you know.
So you're you're purposelyasking them to poke into the
(26:15):
holes that they have in theirlife so that you could then you
know be the problem solver forthose holes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
I like both examples because that's kind of how we
think at least about some of thecore questions that we really
want to ask and we want to makesure that we get in there,
because then there's also get uhquestion fatigue after a bit,
and I think it's kind of gettingthese questions in first, the
most important ones.
Because actually, then thebeauty of quiz marketing done in
a way that is kind of scorecardis because we're actually
scoring.
So that's the extra element,like scoring the people that are
(26:44):
coming in as leads, we're gonnacall them leads for now, just
for the sake of uh simplicity,scoring the leads, and that
actually does influence uh ourstrategy and our communication.
So I was kind of wondering uhthe first question, I've got two
questions in one almost, but I'mgonna break it down.
How does, for somebody who'svery new to this, scoring these
people influence then themarketing strategy and the
(27:06):
communication that comesafterwards, you know, after we
got the results, and then we'llget to the results as well.
SPEAKER_00 (27:14):
Yeah, so you know, the goal of this isn't just to
generate leads, to generatehighly qualified, data-rich
leads.
So it's to know more about youraudience than you've ever known
before, you know, becausepersonalization is key.
All the big companies are doingit, and you know, a big part of
ScoreApp's unique value is thatwe can help a solopreneur
(27:39):
earning a thousand dollars,thousand pounds a month, do this
as well.
You know, start to personalizehow they interact with each one
of their clients, at leastbefore the first sales call,
right?
So, as an example, you know, ifI was to log on to Amazon.com
and Fab, you were to log on toAmazon.com, we would both see
completely different websites,right?
(28:00):
Because it would have 10 yearsof my purchase history, 10 years
of yours, and it's constantlytailoring and showing me what I
want and removing what I don'twant.
Why not do that to your audienceas well?
You know, obviously you won'tmost people wouldn't do it on as
large of scale as Amazon, butyou can do it with little things
(28:21):
that can add up to big things,you know, like for example, a
lot of clients have learned toask in the middle of their quiz
how would you love what wouldyou prefer?
A one-time payment or a paymentplan?
Right?
Just things like that, you know.
So, and then and then that justremoves barriers, removes
(28:42):
friction, and allows yourbusiness to sort of get into
that cash flow a lot easier.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
That's a great example.
Yeah, I love that.
Uh, and actually leads me thento the second part of the
question, which is now that weknow that, and thank you for
clarifying, because I think ifyou are a bit new to it, then
you would also think about okay,I got I got some data now,
actually, I've got a lot ofdata, and for some people it can
feel a bit daunting at first.
But then also we present some ofthe data back, which is part of
I think that's surprise anddelight that the leads will get
(29:11):
to.
So, can you maybe share with useither like a creative way or a
way that jumps out, or even justhow, for example, ScoreApp works
to show the results in anengaging way?
Because I think that's as muchas the experience can be fun or
it can be like intriguing, theway that the results are
presented or the way that theresults are given can actually
(29:33):
be done in a way that maybesurprises and once again
delights your leads, which is agreat way to build that trust.
SPEAKER_00 (29:39):
Yeah.
So when you take your clientsthrough the scorecard process,
step one is a landing page, steptwo is questions, step three is
the results.
On the results page, they'll getaccess, they'll they'll get
redirected to a page on thewebsite, and then they'll also
get a personalized PDF.
And the PDF will have resultsthat.
(30:00):
That are shown in a fewdifferent ways depending on
what's what's most suitable foryour um for your audience.
You know, for example, it'llshow it on a on a scale of say
one one to a hundred.
So you scored 72%, you scored20, 23%.
Um, or there's another way whereyou could put them into buckets.
So let's say like you're abusiness coach and you have an
(30:22):
ethos that there's only fivetypes of clients that you work
with, and you might say, youknow, based on your score,
you've uh you're like a MarkZuckerberg entrepreneur, or
you're like an Oprah Winfreyentrepreneur, and and these are
your strengths, these are yourweaknesses.
So just like a personality quiz,which we've all done, you know,
in university or in our firstjob or whatever else.
SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
That's one of my favorites.
I'm a sucker for personalitytests.
So that was a way that I wouldget something, or we get really
excited.
And the thing that I want to addto that as well is that one of
the things that we do with someof our quizzes as well, we don't
just give the answer withstrengths and weaknesses, we
also then give somethingtangible, which we talked at the
beginning, like the freebie thatyou can get up top as well.
We make sure that we also havesomething tangible that can be
(31:02):
used by people that go throughthe journey afterwards as well,
which once again these days is abit more common, but I still
still think not common enough orfully expected.
So it does surprise people aswell.
So it's these little things,whether it's the
personalization, the extra layerof it, as you say, whether it is
I like the idea, also just makeyou relatable potentially, like
(31:25):
you know, we're actual people,but also is there anything else
that you can add or give ortrail upon?
And that might be one thing thatyou would do with my follow-up
question, which is once theresults are in, how do we follow
up?
And how do we turn the insightsinto some opportunities to
convert these needs?
We're going through the funnelnow, right?
We're going from considerationinto conversion.
(31:46):
So yeah, it might be that issomething that I mentioned
already now, or it might bethere's something different.
But how do we follow up and turnthese insights into actionable
opportunities for us?
SPEAKER_00 (31:56):
Well, I think that depends on your, you know, I
don't I try to always givereally laser practical advice.
And I think it really depends onyour your products, you know.
If you're selling e-commerceproducts, obviously, you know,
you're you're probably not goingto pick up the phone and then
and then call your potentialclient.
(32:16):
But if you're selling it aneducational product and you're
like a coach, consultant,service provider, financial
planner, personal trainer, um,accountant, then then you should
pick up the phone and call aclient.
Say, hey, hey Fab, thank you forfilling out our scorecard.
It's it's Max here from DigitalMarketing Plus.
I saw that from your thequestions you've answered.
(32:38):
Uh you've act you scored six outof ten.
How would you like to hear threetips to help you get from six to
a ten?
Right?
So that that's a really, reallysimple process that you could do
on a phone call, and anyone cando that.
You know, a lot of our clientsuse that exact same sales
process right now.
Some of them have 25 peoplesales teams, and they've been
(32:59):
they've been using scorecards inthat process for four years now.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
And the quick follow-up on this is what would
you say if somebody was startingreally, really small?
Because I feel like there mightbe somebody here today and be
like, oh, 25 people.
Okay, I don't even have a salesteam.
I'm on my own.
What am I gonna do?
I don't know what the thumbs upwent up, but I think it was just
like the panic of the 25 peoplesales team.
SPEAKER_00 (33:23):
Yeah, you know, I I've been there, right?
So uh as a as a business owner,I started uh, you know, with a
credit card on my own.
And you know, when you're doingthat, you you have to be a jack
of all trades.
So you have to be, you know,administrative operations as
well as sales and marketing, aswell as service delivery.
(33:43):
So this just helps you to laserin on that.
So if you think about if youthink about every time you go to
the doctor, right?
Every time you go to the doctor,the doctor will complete what's
known as like a needs analysison you.
Like what do you need?
And then they'll ask youquestions um that that take you
through a process to recommend asolution.
(34:03):
So it could be something like,um, hey, Mr.
Doctor, I'm sick.
Okay, what's wrong?
Well, I um uh I don't know, andand no one knows.
That's the whole point.
Your clients don't know.
So if you if you're going to acall expecting them to know,
then that's gonna be a verypainful call for both of you,
right?
But if you go in there and thenthe doctor says, Okay, that's
(34:26):
totally fine.
Happens all the time.
Um do your eyes hurt?
Have you been sleeping?
You know, have you beencoughing?
Have you been sneezing?
Do you feel cold?
Do you feel hot?
And then they'll cross off thesesymptoms to then laser in on the
exact problem that you have, tothen recommend the solution to
the problem that you have.
And that and that's no differentto what a scorecard does.
(34:47):
You know, a scorecard asksquestions, gets the answers, and
then uses those answers to thenrecommend a solution.
But it does it, you know,automated.
SPEAKER_01 (35:00):
I love that.
I mean, it's that kind of ideaof creating that, like giving
you as much data as well aspossible and information as
possible so that if you are onyour own, it's easier for you
also to re-engage with people,especially once you, you know,
once you are starting out, whichI think is just that reminder of
the people that are comingthrough, you're gonna have a lot
(35:21):
more data for you to understandhow to approach them in the
first place and how to give thempotentially a better
understanding on how you canhelp them, which once again,
knowledge is power and data ispower, even if I know some of us
are like, oh, this feels like alot.
Because data does, and I thinkthe beauty of creating a simpler
way to gather this datainformation from our people,
(35:44):
from our audience, is that thenwe can then use it, and whether
it's fully customized, likesending individual emails,
whether it's more of an emailseries and sequence that you
start with, which is moreautomated, and then you pick it
up from there, there are thenways to still enrich that
experience as well.
So the final question that Ihave for you then talked a lot
(36:06):
about data as well, I know.
Is it's gonna be about dataagain.
Shocker.
But how does the data that we'regetting from all these quizzes,
all these amazing scorecards,can actually help us with other
decisions?
So we talked about therelationship, the communication,
the conversation, theconversion.
But maybe it's about other typesof decisions that we can use in
(36:27):
our marketing or in our salesprocess, and also that can then
be used when we are scaling andwhen we are working with the
team as well.
What are some of the otherapplications that are not just
obviously the lead conversionthat we talked about?
SPEAKER_00 (36:41):
So there's four parts to the scorecard, right?
There's number one, the landingpage, then number two, the
questions, number three, whichis the results, which is the
personalized PDF that they getemailed out to them.
And then number four is all thedata warehoused in the score app
CRM.
So score app also doubles up asa CRM.
(37:04):
So within there, you'll havedata extracted uh that the that
you also don't ask for.
So ScoreApp will help you to seeactually 60-70% of your clients
are from North America.
They're not actually fromEurope.
You know, so then you might wantto start thinking about if you
were to ever do your first everphysical event uh to focus it in
(37:24):
America rather than in London asan example, right?
Uh, or that you know, the themajority of your your clients
are actually women instead ofmen, or men instead of women.
So so just things like that, youcan you can you have a very
clear picture in the dashboarduh within the score app CRM.
SPEAKER_01 (37:43):
I love that.
And then it's something thereyou can then use as well,
potentially, even I'm just gonnahave some thinking here, like to
adapt your target audiences aswell.
You could go as far as sayingwhen you've got enough enough
people coming for enough leadscoming through, like this is
actually the people that we'reattracting, and you can even
just go back to the audiencepersona or ICA, ideal costume
out there, whatever we call it.
(38:03):
There's about 50 names for it.
But the idea is that the peoplethat we know we want to serve,
it might actually be that thiskind of data not only helps you
with the communication, themessaging is also very
important.
I want to mention that can goall across your social content
to blog content to emailcontent, but even potentially
help you re you know, it'salmost another way to do market
(38:24):
research.
And I just want to talk aboutthat and touch on that to find
to finish off, that we sometimesdon't think about.
So I really I think it's areally powerful reminder that
yes is lead generation, yes,it's conversion, but also could
we use this to gather moreinformation and then do some
work, do some market researchfor ourselves and our audience
too, in a way that maybe feelseasier for us to do more bangs
(38:47):
for our buck, and actuallygiving us lots of different
outcomes for just one output,which I think as we're all busy
and we're doing a lot of things,the more that we can get to know
our audience, the better.
There's this saying that thecloser you get to the customer,
you know, whoever gets closer tothe customer wins, and I think
is is a saying that rings true alot in these things.
(39:08):
Maxwell, thank you so much forthe time that you took to answer
all the questions and to shareall of your wisdom with us.
I have to ask if people want tofind out more about you, about
ScoreApp, about asking anyfurther question or just kind of
dive a bit deeper into thetopic, where should they go?
SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
First of all, ScoreApp is free.
So if you want to start usingit, you don't even need to share
your credit card.
So there's no there's no paymentgateway or block or trial or
thing you've got to sign up for.
You just get in, you start usingit depending on the volume that
you're using, then you mightneed to upgrade to a paid
account.
(39:45):
So I just recommend going toscoreapp.com and taking a look
and starting to use it.
Uh if you want to find me andask me any questions, you know,
I run a uh webinar for all scoreapp users every every second
week, every second or third weekor so, and I run through some of
these things plus some morethings.
Uh and I'll and I'll often do alot of live Q ⁇ A coaching where
(40:08):
I'll say, Show me what you'vegot now, let me help you to
sharpen the sharpen the sword onthat to to get to the next
level.
And then if you want to find meoutside of that, just head to
LinkedIn.
I'm addicted to LinkedIn.
I'm the only Maxwell Ni onthere.
Just ping me there, send me amessage, and let me know you
(40:30):
heard me speaking a fab, andI'll know what we're talking
about.
SPEAKER_01 (40:34):
Thank you so much, Maxwell.
Again, it has been an absolutepleasure.
Team, lots of knowledge, lots ofdata, lots of data talk.
Shocker again.
But I hope it inspired you tofind better ways and exciting
ways for you and your audienceto actually build our report all
the way from the get-go.
So leads doesn't have to meanjust people that we don't know,
(40:55):
we don't know nothing about.
We can actually get so much morefrom that and to get to know
them so much better with toolslike ScoreApp as well.
As always, don't forget to bekind to yourselves and others
and never stop learning becausepractice makes progress.
We'll see you again very soon.
Until next time, class isdismissed.
Hey marketing rebels, welcome back to All
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(00:28):
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(01:14):
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(02:00):
We're so excited to see you backin class for another week of
summer school.
Today, we're going to talk abouta topic that we can summarize in
(02:21):
two words, which is scorecardmarketing.
And even better, this means thatI can ask the lovely guest
teacher here with me today,Maxwell, to introduce himself,
not only by sharing what hedoes, but also by explaining
what scorecard marketing isbecause it's literally the
forefront of the company andwhat you guys do.
(02:42):
So thank you, Maxwell, for beinghere.
I'm gonna let you introduceyourself for us.
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
So I am the I'm an angelinvestor and chief revenue
officer at ScoreApp.
ScoreApp is a quiz marketingplatform.
Think of it as like a crossbetween ClickFunnels and
SurveyMonkey, only about lessthan half the cost.
And we have we've been aroundfor almost five years now.
(03:10):
We have almost 9,000 payingclients all around the world,
more than 100 countries, and wehelp them all to collect more
data from their clients andgenerate highly qualified leads
from their audience.
SPEAKER_01 (03:24):
So even if you are new to it today, hopefully you
can get an understanding of thebehind the scenes and like how
it actually works in a way thatdiffers from maybe I'm gonna use
some bigger words and I'm gonnaremind us of what they mean just
in case.
Instead of looking at coldleads, but it really already
focuses on as a platform and asa strategy and as an
(03:46):
encompassing things that you do,you help generating warmer leads
already from the get-go.
And I think there is an elementin what uh you do, and I also
would recommend uh the book thatthe CEO of the company, uh
Daniel Presley, wrote, which iscalled card marketing, which
really explains the psychologybehind it and the reasoning
behind it.
(04:07):
There is something calledpsychological tension at play.
There is something in that thatactually gets people to take
action.
So I was wondering whether youcould explain this part of it
for us, because it's really atthe beginning or the forefront
of what gets people then tointeract with the app and then
to turn into warm leads.
So, how does psychologicaltension play a role in warming
(04:28):
up these leads?
And how can we actually use itin a way that feels you know
authentic and natural and notnecessarily manipulative or
forced?
SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
Yeah, good question.
So let me explain psychologicaltension, right?
So I want you to imagine apyramid.
So there's a pyramid, at thevery top of the pyramid, there
is, for example, 3% of anymarket that's ready to buy now.
So they're the people that havethe credit card in hand out
(04:57):
there shopping.
You know, if if if they're inthe market to buy a house, they
have their Commonwealth Bankmortgage, you know,
pre-approved, ready to go,right?
And everyone goes for that titleaudience because they're the
ones that are ready to buytoday, they're the only ones
that are ready to potentiallyget a sale from today.
(05:20):
But the issue with thatclientele is that when you are
that certain that you you youwant to fix this problem today
and you're ready to buy today,you typically would have already
decided who you're going to buyfrom, right?
So in my example, if if you'reout there shopping to buy a
(05:42):
house and you already have yourfinance, your mortgage
pre-approved, uh, then ifanother bank comes along and
says, Hey Fab, how would youlike to try our 1% discount
interest rate for your mortgagefor your house buying journey,
you're gonna say, That's reallynice, but I've already made a
decision, I've already, youknow, I've already gone through
that decision-making process forme to take a step back to to
start again.
(06:03):
You know, it's it's just alittle bit cumbersome.
So what psychological tension isis that it helps you to really
choose at another layer of themarket to go for.
So there's a top 3% of themarket that's ready to buy
today, the next 7% of the marketis ready to buy, but they
(06:26):
haven't decided who to buy fromyet.
The psychological tension ofwarming up your leads and
effectively um generatinginterest from them is is
basically bringing that thatseven percent up to the top so
that they're ready to buy.
So it's it's sparking interest,it's educating them, it's
(06:46):
getting in front of them beforethey've made any hard decisions
about their next purchase, uh,which is you know uh a really
exciting place to be because youknow 7% of the market is more
than double the 3% is ready tobuy today.
So you add all three together uhin in your target audience that
you're investing into intomarketing to, and you've tripled
(07:08):
your market as well.
SPEAKER_01 (07:10):
This is actually very interesting because when we
think about this, then wealready can get, first of all, a
bigger pull of the market, abigger group of people that we
can tap into.
So I'm thinking uh marketingspeech is almost we get them
into that consideration stagewhere they're problem aware,
they know they have a problem,and it's just figuring out who's
the best solution for them.
(07:31):
But with that, there is anexciting opportunity, once
again, to actually talk to thesepeople as well more clearly and
more persuasively.
But also there is there can be achallenge, which is we then need
to figure out what are the coreproblems or the main desires
that these potential customershave, right?
So, what questions can we askand or what can we offer them,
(07:55):
especially when it comes to youknow, scorecard is really about
asking questions to get data, toget information, but also then
to provide an initial solutionor some clarity, which kind of
means that it's a greatopportunity, but it requires us
as marketers to think what do Iwant to know from them and what
do I want to give this 7% tohelp them out provide some
(08:19):
value?
So I guess there's twofold tothe question: what are some of
the strategies or things that wecan do to identify and tap into
these desires or problems withthese potential customers?
And also why is it so importantto ask the right questions?
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Yeah, good questions.
Um, you know, the the onlinelead generation game has
evolved, you know, it's beenaround for a while now, it's
been around for more than 10years now, and everyone on the
planet is wise to being sold toin person, and now we're wise to
being sold to online.
So, for example, if if anyone uhif you want anyone to give you
(08:59):
their information, the name,email, phone number, uh, and for
them to basically put their handup and say, hey, look, I'm
giving you permission to sell tome.
I'm a potential client, I'mready to, I'm I'm thinking about
buying.
I might not be ready to buytoday, but I'm thinking about
buying, then uh you need toprovide a lot of value, right?
(09:20):
When when our clients providetheir clients uh, you know,
scorecards and reports andquizzes and everything that that
score app provides, what happensis that the conversion rate
usually doubles or triples.
So a typical lead magnet thatwill convert at say 10, 15%, uh,
and that's like a discount code,a free ebook, a free ticket to
(09:44):
an event, an invitation to um toa webinar or workshop or
something like that, somethingthat they've assigned a notion
or value onto.
And then when they start usingquiz marketing, as typically
they the conversion rateincreases to about 30 to 40
percent.
So you're looking at double, ifnot triple, maybe even
(10:04):
quadruple, your conversion rate.
And why is that?
That's because the consumervalues that process and that
that free piece of value, youknow, three to four times
higher.
That's why they're willing togive you the information for
that amount of money.
So it's all about packaging upas much as you can give away at
(10:25):
scale for free to a you know, bereally generous and sort of
spark that reciprocity.
I see her as the authority forthis problem because she's the
only person that solved it tome.
She's done it to meinstantaneously, and she's done
it for me for free.
SPEAKER_01 (10:43):
I love that you mentioned giving something that
it's so valuable, and yet yougive it away for free.
Like, what can you give away forfree that is incredibly valuable
that goes beyond some of thethings we might expect to be
able to access?
But still, I like the elementyou mentioned also at scale.
Thanks to the quiz, you canstart to then making the right
decision and showing afterwardsas the result, as the final
(11:04):
outcome, something that feelsthat in some way, even if at
scale, still speaks directly tosome of the problems that you
have or some of theparticularities of who you are,
which I think is incrediblypowerful as well.
Personalization can also behappening in other types of
marketing, it doesn't have to bequiz or scorecard marketing.
But I was wondering, is thereanything else that you think
makes it different than thetraditional approaches that we
(11:29):
have?
SPEAKER_00 (11:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, you know, a really commonexample of quiz marketing is the
very classic personal trainerexample.
So we've all seen those ads oror value propositions before
where a personal trainer or agym or a fitness coach will say,
uh fill out these 10 questions,and then I will give you a uh
(11:50):
I'll tell you your exact bodytype, and I'll tell you the
exact food you need to be eatingso that you can reach your
summer goals in say, you know,half the time.
And that's really compelling andpowerful for a few reasons.
Very compelling and powerfulbecause yes, they're they're
giving you something of valuefor free, and it's but what's
really cool is that it'sinstantaneous.
(12:10):
It's not like, hey, you know,fill out this thing and then
I'll call you back in three daysand you might forget about it.
No, this thing is going tocalculate like a little a little
quick personalized, you know,custom calculation for you on
the spot.
Uh, and then it's also verycompelling because it it's very
(12:31):
powerful to tell someonesomething about themselves that
they didn't that they didn'talready know.
You know, it strokes a littlebit of ego, but it's what it
does is that it it gives likeself-identification, self
self-identity, and it and itallows you to to sort of say,
Wow, you know, you have reallyseen and noticed me.
(12:51):
You've noticed that I'm not likeeveryone else, and you've you've
helped me to validate why I feeldifferent and and you know how I
can get to my goals.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
I'm biased, but I really love that being able to
tell people I see you, I thinkthat for me is like invaluable
when it comes to thinking aboutthings.
And actually, that's interestingbecause it's a lot about the
marketing that we teach, whichis human marketing, human-driven
marketing, that is actuallytapping to that emotional piece.
So actually, before we get intothen the package, as in the
(13:24):
experience that you get once yougo through this little journey,
right?
Of this kind of likepersonalized, literally is a
journey.
I was wondering, how do youthink we can balance almost like
the pre the pre-log step, thestep of getting people to
actually, despite being asmaller commitment, still commit
to say, just the personaltrainer example, I want to learn
(13:45):
how to best fuel myself?
Again, this was an example thatyou made.
But you know, we have theemotional appeal, but then we
also have the logical reasoning,and then there's also the
urgency.
So, have you found that thereare some ways that, whether in
the messaging or what isprovided, or anything else that
your uh clients, obviously usingScore app, have used, or maybe
(14:06):
some other ideas that we canthink of when it comes to
creating that marketing messagethat really attracts these leads
to get the next step?
SPEAKER_00 (14:14):
Yeah, so to get anyone to buy anything, you need
three things, right?
You need the logical reason, youneed the emotional pull, and
then you need the urgency.
Without urgency, nothinghappens.
So you could have someone with acredit card in hand ready to
buy, but in their life, there'sjust no urgency, you know.
(14:35):
Like they they they want tosolve this problem, but why not
solve it a year from now?
Like, why spend the money?
Why have the money leave yourbank account now?
You know, so that's that'surgency.
And I'll give you an example ofof all three, you know, also
within within the gym example.
So I used to do digitalmarketing for a for gyms in and
(14:56):
around where I lived, and thethe maximum average that a gym
would earn it was about twomillion bucks a year.
And then all of a sudden Istumbled across this gym that
wanted to hire a digitalmarketer and they were earning
eight million dollars a year.
I thought, wow, you're you'refour times larger than every
other gym, and you're a similarsize.
Like, how does that work?
And then I said to them, What'syour sales process?
(15:18):
And they said, We have a veryunique sales process, which was
basically a scorecard.
So what they would do is everyTuesday, they would provide uh a
free body scan to all of theirto anyone that walks past their
gym.
And this body scan, every othergym was charging$30 for it, but
they'd give it for free.
So that ticks the first box,right?
(15:40):
Like logical, you get a logicalfree outcome that I'm gonna
shout you, you know, I'm gonnapay for it for you, which is
which is really awesome, verykind.
Everyone wants to hang out withthose types of people.
So that that's that's thelogical pull.
Then obviously, you know, whenthey go to the gym, they they do
the scan, they start seeingpictures of people that are in
really great shape, and theythink, oh, you know, what would
(16:01):
my life be like?
You know, they start to feelwhat would my life be like if I
was in that great shape?
I'd feel so cool, I'd feelconfident, I could wear these
clothes again that I that Ihaven't been able to wear for
such a long time.
That's like the that's the zest,you know, like that's like the
sexy emotional sex factor.
And then once they get theresults, they used to complete
(16:23):
this body scan.
And what this body scan would dois it'd look at your muscle
mass, your fat mass, uh look atyour your muscle to fat ratio,
so your body fat percentage, andthen it'll also look at your
internals, like your visceralfat.
So visceral fat is like the fatthat's around your organs, and
you shouldn't have too much ofthis because, as you can
imagine, if you have too muchfat around your organs, it
(16:46):
causes things like high bloodpressure, you know,
perceptibility to diabetes andyou know, health risks, right?
Where you you'll have you'll bein the hospital, you have
needles in you, and all thattype of stuff, which no one
wants to have.
This gym would tell everyonethat and educate everyone
through that journey, right?
So there's a logical aspect,here's where you are, here's
(17:06):
where, here's where you want tobe, and they will show you on a
piece of paper that you are 24%obese, you know, and and then
they'll say that to you, right?
So they'll they'll give you arating on a score of say one to
ten, and they'll tell you, youknow, you're floating out of
three, and at a three, uh, youknow, you you might die, um, you
(17:26):
might die 20 years earlier, typeof thing.
So that's the urgency.
And then I said to them, whenyou took people through this
process, what did that what wasyour what was your conversion
rate?
And they and guess what theysaid?
They said 98%.
98% of people that went throughall of this, by the time they
(17:47):
went through all of it, theythen were sold into a program,
like a gym program or gym setupthat was four times more
expensive than everyone else's,but the conversion rate was 98%
because it ticked off logicalreasoning, yes, emotional
reasoning, yes.
And most of all, it really,really ticked off the urgency
(18:08):
for all of these leads.
SPEAKER_01 (18:09):
So there is an element in there to think about
once you know the topic, whichwe'll talk about now as well.
Once we know the topic of thequiz that we want to run and how
we want to present that, is alsokind of stepping back and asking
ourselves, okay, how can we showthe benefits and how the
benefits can once again we'rethinking about if you are
thinking about different typesof products.
(18:30):
I think health can be a verygood example, but also there's
an urgency that I think could bedifferent than others.
But then we've got time saving,we have money saving, money
making.
There are other things that wecan think of that can have that
level of just urgency.
And I think for me, mysuggestion would be from my
perspective, is just the moretangible you can make it, the
better as well.
(18:50):
I think sometimes it caneverything can feel a bit
fluffy, and even if you feelthat what you have might not,
first of all, if you don't wantto use urgency in a way that
doesn't feel natural or ethicalto you, or you don't have
anything that you can feel isurgent enough, remember that
there are little tangible thingsthat everybody is experiencing
that you can help your audiencewith.
(19:10):
And I think that can really helpconsolidate, even if you maybe
it's not as natural or easy foryou to do.
And I think that's one of thethings that sometimes we forget.
Now, with that in mind, thefinal thing I wasn't gonna ask,
you give us some great ideas.
Is there anything that you canthink of?
Some elements or some thingsmaybe tied to what to what we
said about what we need to makesure that is in our landing page
(19:32):
in this case, like the presents,right?
Our quiz or our scorecard.
Is there anything that you thinkwe need to definitely have in
that page to get people to clickthat starting button?
SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
Yeah, so we um well, first of all, a landing page is
just like any other landingpage.
So you've got the title, whichdoes 80 to 90% of the heavy
lifting.
You know, it's a bit like thetitle of a book, the title of a
news article, you know, everyonejust has a book by its cover
because that's just how youthat's the only information that
(20:06):
you have.
And then so your title might,you know, your title needs to
offer something that peoplewould pay for, right?
So find out, you know, why howyou could generate, you know, 20
more leads a month, or find outuh why you're not generating 24,
you know, an extra 20 leads amonth, or find out why how AI
(20:30):
could affect your business andpotentially hurt your business,
you know, like things likeevents that people would invest
time into to learn, if not timeand money.
Then you also want to, you know,we also did a study and we
looked at a couple hundredlanding pages, and there was a
bunch that converted about 15%higher than the others, and all
(20:53):
they had was a freebie on thepage, right?
So people love freebies,especially if they're genuine
freebies, they're not like, oh,you have to you have to jump
through all of these steps andhoops to to get to this.
So freebie might be, yeah, youknow, you fill out this, you get
your you get your scorecard, um,but then you also get a free
ebook, or you get a free ticketto something, or you might get a
(21:17):
you know, a free mini course.
You know, mini courses workreally well as well, because
especially if you're in anindustry where you're selling
education, where you'rebasically selling courses, you
know, giving everyone like alittle test drive of your of
your products is a good place tostart.
SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
I never heard that one before.
Like I I intuitively Iunderstand it, but I was like,
oh yeah, that's actually a veryinteresting point.
It's just kind of giving anextra little thing before, as
you say, people have to jumpthrough the hoop.
I call it like give the thefirst exchange of value, which
is even if the email is notthere yet, they will be then
asked to conversely share theiremail.
It's still that little work thatthey have to do to get the
(21:53):
answers that they're lookingfor.
So that's actually a veryinteresting take as well that
maybe a lot of people haven'ttried yet.
So thank you for that.
Um actually, now is what I wantto ask a few questions.
I'm gonna go through a couple ofsteps, obviously, in setting up
your quiz and your scorecard aswell.
I'm pretty sure that the answerto this question could be it
(22:13):
depends when it comes to what iseffective.
It can be it depends on whatyou're trying to ask and what
what what you want to know.
But there must be at least someguidelines, maybe it's more the
don'ts than the do's.
Because I want to I we lovesurveys, questionnaires,
quizzes, we love all of this.
And I think when it comes tolead scoring, especially,
because then we're getting dataand information about these
(22:35):
people, there are things that wecan do to make it even more
effective for us and obviouslymore impactful for us.
So, how do you make sure thatyour questions actually get
really good insights for you asmuch as excuse me, also
obviously you know, taking theprospects to a journey?
What I'm trying to say is how dowe get the right questions in
(22:57):
for us without overwhelmingthem?
SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
Yeah, good question.
So it used to take someone, anaverage person about a day and a
half to get this all set upbecause it is copywriting, it is
creative work, it isimagination, it is putting a lot
of effort into your business,and it is like building a
website from scratch.
You know, you've got to work outwhat to call things, move things
(23:21):
here and there, change colours,change fonts, all that type of
stuff.
But now we actually have an AIwizard in the platform that you
could use where it'll ask you, Ithink about between five to ten
questions, you niche youraudience, the the theme of your
scorecard, and then it'll writeyou know six to seven hours of
copywriting for you, and whichis basically like draft one,
(23:45):
two, and three to just get youpast that that writer's block
and give you inspiration tostart to get going.
So there's that.
And then you know, we've seenscorecards that do really well
that have 40 questions, we'veseen some that do really well
that have 10 questions.
So it's not really the the thenumber of questions or what the
questions are, it's the outcome,you know.
(24:06):
Like everything else, clientsonly care about what they get
from it.
Uh, you know, how you get themthere is is is your business,
but what where you get them tois what they're interested in.
So, you know, positioning theoutcome of what you have to
offer as as a really big burningproblem that they would love to
(24:29):
solve is will give you as muchof a head start as you could
possibly get.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
And I'm gonna do a quick follow-up on that because
I love that.
If there's any kind of exampleor idea that you have of some
questions that really worked,that would be great.
Just to give us a couple ofnuggets to think about.
SPEAKER_00 (24:44):
Yeah, so I'll give you a really good example.
Um, if you ask someone, anyone,any general audience, you know,
uh like a very broad question,like where would you love to be,
or like what goal, what are yourgoals for 2025?
You know, what do you want?
Um it typically a lot of peoplewill stumble on that question,
(25:08):
or they'll give you an answerthat that that doesn't tell you
a lot because um that question'scoming from like a uh it the
answer to that question most ofthe time, if you ask people on
the spot, it'll come from a verysurface, surface-level place,
like you won't get really deepinformation out of them.
But if you were to rephrase thesame question and say, you know,
(25:30):
what was the worst thing thathappened in 2024 that you would
love to never happen again?
Everyone can answer thatquestion with a lot more
conviction and veracity, andthat tells you almost the exact
same thing, like just from theother side of the coin.
So typically, if you if you havea scorecard and it just goes
(25:53):
through, tell me all the, youknow, what's the one thing you
don't like in, let's say you'rea life coach.
You say, what's the one thingyou don't like in your personal
life right now?
I'll tell you X.
What's the one thing you don'tlike in your in your business
and your career right now?
Let's tell you X.
What's the one thing you don'tyou don't like about you want to
change about your health rightnow?
What you think could be better,you know.
So you're you're purposelyasking them to poke into the
(26:15):
holes that they have in theirlife so that you could then you
know be the problem solver forthose holes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
I like both examples because that's kind of how we
think at least about some of thecore questions that we really
want to ask and we want to makesure that we get in there,
because then there's also get uhquestion fatigue after a bit,
and I think it's kind of gettingthese questions in first, the
most important ones.
Because actually, then thebeauty of quiz marketing done in
a way that is kind of scorecardis because we're actually
scoring.
So that's the extra element,like scoring the people that are
(26:44):
coming in as leads, we're gonnacall them leads for now, just
for the sake of uh simplicity,scoring the leads, and that
actually does influence uh ourstrategy and our communication.
So I was kind of wondering uhthe first question, I've got two
questions in one almost, but I'mgonna break it down.
How does, for somebody who'svery new to this, scoring these
people influence then themarketing strategy and the
(27:06):
communication that comesafterwards, you know, after we
got the results, and then we'llget to the results as well.
SPEAKER_00 (27:14):
Yeah, so you know, the goal of this isn't just to
generate leads, to generatehighly qualified, data-rich
leads.
So it's to know more about youraudience than you've ever known
before, you know, becausepersonalization is key.
All the big companies are doingit, and you know, a big part of
ScoreApp's unique value is thatwe can help a solopreneur
(27:39):
earning a thousand dollars,thousand pounds a month, do this
as well.
You know, start to personalizehow they interact with each one
of their clients, at leastbefore the first sales call,
right?
So, as an example, you know, ifI was to log on to Amazon.com
and Fab, you were to log on toAmazon.com, we would both see
completely different websites,right?
(28:00):
Because it would have 10 yearsof my purchase history, 10 years
of yours, and it's constantlytailoring and showing me what I
want and removing what I don'twant.
Why not do that to your audienceas well?
You know, obviously you won'tmost people wouldn't do it on as
large of scale as Amazon, butyou can do it with little things
(28:21):
that can add up to big things,you know, like for example, a
lot of clients have learned toask in the middle of their quiz
how would you love what wouldyou prefer?
A one-time payment or a paymentplan?
Right?
Just things like that, you know.
So, and then and then that justremoves barriers, removes
(28:42):
friction, and allows yourbusiness to sort of get into
that cash flow a lot easier.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
That's a great example.
Yeah, I love that.
Uh, and actually leads me thento the second part of the
question, which is now that weknow that, and thank you for
clarifying, because I think ifyou are a bit new to it, then
you would also think about okay,I got I got some data now,
actually, I've got a lot ofdata, and for some people it can
feel a bit daunting at first.
But then also we present some ofthe data back, which is part of
I think that's surprise anddelight that the leads will get
(29:11):
to.
So, can you maybe share with useither like a creative way or a
way that jumps out, or even justhow, for example, ScoreApp works
to show the results in anengaging way?
Because I think that's as muchas the experience can be fun or
it can be like intriguing, theway that the results are
presented or the way that theresults are given can actually
(29:33):
be done in a way that maybesurprises and once again
delights your leads, which is agreat way to build that trust.
SPEAKER_00 (29:39):
Yeah.
So when you take your clientsthrough the scorecard process,
step one is a landing page, steptwo is questions, step three is
the results.
On the results page, they'll getaccess, they'll they'll get
redirected to a page on thewebsite, and then they'll also
get a personalized PDF.
And the PDF will have resultsthat.
(30:00):
That are shown in a fewdifferent ways depending on
what's what's most suitable foryour um for your audience.
You know, for example, it'llshow it on a on a scale of say
one one to a hundred.
So you scored 72%, you scored20, 23%.
Um, or there's another way whereyou could put them into buckets.
So let's say like you're abusiness coach and you have an
(30:22):
ethos that there's only fivetypes of clients that you work
with, and you might say, youknow, based on your score,
you've uh you're like a MarkZuckerberg entrepreneur, or
you're like an Oprah Winfreyentrepreneur, and and these are
your strengths, these are yourweaknesses.
So just like a personality quiz,which we've all done, you know,
in university or in our firstjob or whatever else.
SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
That's one of my favorites.
I'm a sucker for personalitytests.
So that was a way that I wouldget something, or we get really
excited.
And the thing that I want to addto that as well is that one of
the things that we do with someof our quizzes as well, we don't
just give the answer withstrengths and weaknesses, we
also then give somethingtangible, which we talked at the
beginning, like the freebie thatyou can get up top as well.
We make sure that we also havesomething tangible that can be
(31:02):
used by people that go throughthe journey afterwards as well,
which once again these days is abit more common, but I still
still think not common enough orfully expected.
So it does surprise people aswell.
So it's these little things,whether it's the
personalization, the extra layerof it, as you say, whether it is
I like the idea, also just makeyou relatable potentially, like
(31:25):
you know, we're actual people,but also is there anything else
that you can add or give ortrail upon?
And that might be one thing thatyou would do with my follow-up
question, which is once theresults are in, how do we follow
up?
And how do we turn the insightsinto some opportunities to
convert these needs?
We're going through the funnelnow, right?
We're going from considerationinto conversion.
(31:46):
So yeah, it might be that issomething that I mentioned
already now, or it might bethere's something different.
But how do we follow up and turnthese insights into actionable
opportunities for us?
SPEAKER_00 (31:56):
Well, I think that depends on your, you know, I
don't I try to always givereally laser practical advice.
And I think it really depends onyour your products, you know.
If you're selling e-commerceproducts, obviously, you know,
you're you're probably not goingto pick up the phone and then
and then call your potentialclient.
(32:16):
But if you're selling it aneducational product and you're
like a coach, consultant,service provider, financial
planner, personal trainer, um,accountant, then then you should
pick up the phone and call aclient.
Say, hey, hey Fab, thank you forfilling out our scorecard.
It's it's Max here from DigitalMarketing Plus.
I saw that from your thequestions you've answered.
(32:38):
Uh you've act you scored six outof ten.
How would you like to hear threetips to help you get from six to
a ten?
Right?
So that that's a really, reallysimple process that you could do
on a phone call, and anyone cando that.
You know, a lot of our clientsuse that exact same sales
process right now.
Some of them have 25 peoplesales teams, and they've been
(32:59):
they've been using scorecards inthat process for four years now.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
And the quick follow-up on this is what would
you say if somebody was startingreally, really small?
Because I feel like there mightbe somebody here today and be
like, oh, 25 people.
Okay, I don't even have a salesteam.
I'm on my own.
What am I gonna do?
I don't know what the thumbs upwent up, but I think it was just
like the panic of the 25 peoplesales team.
SPEAKER_00 (33:23):
Yeah, you know, I I've been there, right?
So uh as a as a business owner,I started uh, you know, with a
credit card on my own.
And you know, when you're doingthat, you you have to be a jack
of all trades.
So you have to be, you know,administrative operations as
well as sales and marketing, aswell as service delivery.
(33:43):
So this just helps you to laserin on that.
So if you think about if youthink about every time you go to
the doctor, right?
Every time you go to the doctor,the doctor will complete what's
known as like a needs analysison you.
Like what do you need?
And then they'll ask youquestions um that that take you
through a process to recommend asolution.
(34:03):
So it could be something like,um, hey, Mr.
Doctor, I'm sick.
Okay, what's wrong?
Well, I um uh I don't know, andand no one knows.
That's the whole point.
Your clients don't know.
So if you if you're going to acall expecting them to know,
then that's gonna be a verypainful call for both of you,
right?
But if you go in there and thenthe doctor says, Okay, that's
(34:26):
totally fine.
Happens all the time.
Um do your eyes hurt?
Have you been sleeping?
You know, have you beencoughing?
Have you been sneezing?
Do you feel cold?
Do you feel hot?
And then they'll cross off thesesymptoms to then laser in on the
exact problem that you have, tothen recommend the solution to
the problem that you have.
And that and that's no differentto what a scorecard does.
(34:47):
You know, a scorecard asksquestions, gets the answers, and
then uses those answers to thenrecommend a solution.
But it does it, you know,automated.
SPEAKER_01 (35:00):
I love that.
I mean, it's that kind of ideaof creating that, like giving
you as much data as well aspossible and information as
possible so that if you are onyour own, it's easier for you
also to re-engage with people,especially once you, you know,
once you are starting out, whichI think is just that reminder of
the people that are comingthrough, you're gonna have a lot
(35:21):
more data for you to understandhow to approach them in the
first place and how to give thempotentially a better
understanding on how you canhelp them, which once again,
knowledge is power and data ispower, even if I know some of us
are like, oh, this feels like alot.
Because data does, and I thinkthe beauty of creating a simpler
way to gather this datainformation from our people,
(35:44):
from our audience, is that thenwe can then use it, and whether
it's fully customized, likesending individual emails,
whether it's more of an emailseries and sequence that you
start with, which is moreautomated, and then you pick it
up from there, there are thenways to still enrich that
experience as well.
So the final question that Ihave for you then talked a lot
(36:06):
about data as well, I know.
Is it's gonna be about dataagain.
Shocker.
But how does the data that we'regetting from all these quizzes,
all these amazing scorecards,can actually help us with other
decisions?
So we talked about therelationship, the communication,
the conversation, theconversion.
But maybe it's about other typesof decisions that we can use in
(36:27):
our marketing or in our salesprocess, and also that can then
be used when we are scaling andwhen we are working with the
team as well.
What are some of the otherapplications that are not just
obviously the lead conversionthat we talked about?
SPEAKER_00 (36:41):
So there's four parts to the scorecard, right?
There's number one, the landingpage, then number two, the
questions, number three, whichis the results, which is the
personalized PDF that they getemailed out to them.
And then number four is all thedata warehoused in the score app
CRM.
So score app also doubles up asa CRM.
(37:04):
So within there, you'll havedata extracted uh that the that
you also don't ask for.
So ScoreApp will help you to seeactually 60-70% of your clients
are from North America.
They're not actually fromEurope.
You know, so then you might wantto start thinking about if you
were to ever do your first everphysical event uh to focus it in
(37:24):
America rather than in London asan example, right?
Uh, or that you know, the themajority of your your clients
are actually women instead ofmen, or men instead of women.
So so just things like that, youcan you can you have a very
clear picture in the dashboarduh within the score app CRM.
SPEAKER_01 (37:43):
I love that.
And then it's something thereyou can then use as well,
potentially, even I'm just gonnahave some thinking here, like to
adapt your target audiences aswell.
You could go as far as sayingwhen you've got enough enough
people coming for enough leadscoming through, like this is
actually the people that we'reattracting, and you can even
just go back to the audiencepersona or ICA, ideal costume
out there, whatever we call it.
(38:03):
There's about 50 names for it.
But the idea is that the peoplethat we know we want to serve,
it might actually be that thiskind of data not only helps you
with the communication, themessaging is also very
important.
I want to mention that can goall across your social content
to blog content to emailcontent, but even potentially
help you re you know, it'salmost another way to do market
(38:24):
research.
And I just want to talk aboutthat and touch on that to find
to finish off, that we sometimesdon't think about.
So I really I think it's areally powerful reminder that
yes is lead generation, yes,it's conversion, but also could
we use this to gather moreinformation and then do some
work, do some market researchfor ourselves and our audience
too, in a way that maybe feelseasier for us to do more bangs
(38:47):
for our buck, and actuallygiving us lots of different
outcomes for just one output,which I think as we're all busy
and we're doing a lot of things,the more that we can get to know
our audience, the better.
There's this saying that thecloser you get to the customer,
you know, whoever gets closer tothe customer wins, and I think
is is a saying that rings true alot in these things.
(39:08):
Maxwell, thank you so much forthe time that you took to answer
all the questions and to shareall of your wisdom with us.
I have to ask if people want tofind out more about you, about
ScoreApp, about asking anyfurther question or just kind of
dive a bit deeper into thetopic, where should they go?
SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
First of all, ScoreApp is free.
So if you want to start usingit, you don't even need to share
your credit card.
So there's no there's no paymentgateway or block or trial or
thing you've got to sign up for.
You just get in, you start usingit depending on the volume that
you're using, then you mightneed to upgrade to a paid
account.
(39:45):
So I just recommend going toscoreapp.com and taking a look
and starting to use it.
Uh if you want to find me andask me any questions, you know,
I run a uh webinar for all scoreapp users every every second
week, every second or third weekor so, and I run through some of
these things plus some morethings.
Uh and I'll and I'll often do alot of live Q ⁇ A coaching where
(40:08):
I'll say, Show me what you'vegot now, let me help you to
sharpen the sharpen the sword onthat to to get to the next
level.
And then if you want to find meoutside of that, just head to
LinkedIn.
I'm addicted to LinkedIn.
I'm the only Maxwell Ni onthere.
Just ping me there, send me amessage, and let me know you
(40:30):
heard me speaking a fab, andI'll know what we're talking
about.
SPEAKER_01 (40:34):
Thank you so much, Maxwell.
Again, it has been an absolutepleasure.
Team, lots of knowledge, lots ofdata, lots of data talk.
Shocker again.
But I hope it inspired you tofind better ways and exciting
ways for you and your audienceto actually build our report all
the way from the get-go.
So leads doesn't have to meanjust people that we don't know,
(40:55):
we don't know nothing about.
We can actually get so much morefrom that and to get to know
them so much better with toolslike ScoreApp as well.
As always, don't forget to bekind to yourselves and others
and never stop learning becausepractice makes progress.
We'll see you again very soon.
Until next time, class isdismissed.
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