March 14, 2025 • 22 mins
Have you ever walked away from a conversation feeling completely misunderstood despite your best efforts to communicate clearly? The secret to breakthrough communication isn't about finding the perfect words—it's about understanding what conversation you're actually having.
This eye-opening discussion explores the concept of "super communication" and the critical difference between emotional and practical conversational styles. Through fascinating real-world examples—from a CIA agent who finally succeeded in recruiting a valuable asset only after switching from logical persuasion to emotional honesty, to a skilled juror who turned around a seemingly hopeless verdict—we discover how recognizing these different styles transforms our ability to connect.
The most powerful insight comes in understanding the pause—that critical moment where we step back and assess what the other person truly needs from the conversation. Is someone venting and needing empathy, or seeking practical advice? Are they speaking from emotional pain that needs acknowledgment before any solutions can be heard? By correctly identifying these dynamics, we can meet people where they are rather than where we assume they should be.
This conversation provides a framework for preventing countless misunderstandings in both personal and professional relationships. Whether you're managing teams, building client relationships, or trying to better connect with loved ones, learning to dance between emotional and practical communication styles is the difference between talking at someone and truly connecting with them. The most valuable takeaway? Sometimes the most effective response isn't giving advice at all—it's creating space for someone to be heard in exactly the way they need.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All in.
I'm like veins popping in myforehead, like I'm going, and
they had the same look on theirface.
So, finally, I'm like yo,what's up?
Like?
Why aren't you responding?
And they said well, the woman,if you actually took time to
learn about how incredible youwere nothing would ever stop you
(00:22):
.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So when I realized she was talking, I was like, oh,
this isn't a conversation whereI need to give advice.
She isn't asking for that.
This isn't a seeking advice.
So now, if I would have startedto give advice or something, we
could have then butted headsright there because I'm looking
at just do one, two, three, fouras practical, and that's not
the space that person is lookingfrom.
So I've started to notice thatin communications with people,
(00:46):
where I sit and think, okay,what are they?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well, hold on a second.
Break it down for me real quick, because I remember you told me
about the book.
I haven't read the book.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
But someone.
I mean I'm going to buy thebook because this is the second
time you're bringing it up.
Yeah, yeah, but justfoundationally.
What are the differentcommunications styles?
You said emotional, practical,then the other one I haven't
really read that far into thebook yet.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
But the other one is like who we are.
But so far in the book, so farthe one that you talk about the
most are emotional and practical.
So in the first part of thebook they talk about this guy
who was working for the CIA.
He was working for the CIA, hewas in the like, the Middle East
, and he wanted to.
It comes out that he wanted tobe the CIA because he wanted to
(01:35):
feel important and have value,these kind of things.
So he met a young lady overthere in the Middle East and he
told her first he worked forlike some company, I don't know
what they were selling, justlike an average company, and so
they went out a few times.
So eventually he told her thathe was a CIA agent and that he
(01:56):
was trying to recruit herBecause once he told his job
that he had a potential person,they had already.
Maybe he told his managersomething and they told the vice
president.
So it was kind of like yeah,you better come back with this
person.
And so now the pressure is on.
So the first time he spoke toher, he just spoke in once, he
dropped that bomb on her.
She was like no, like youtrying to get me killed, even
(02:18):
though she didn't like thethings that were going on in
their country, her country, etc.
Because of the way he, you know, came about communicated it
threw her off.
It was bad.
She didn't want to talk to him.
So eventually the last timethey had met, essentially he was
about to get fired if he didn'tget the get hurt.
(02:40):
So he convinced her to go outto dinner one more time and he
essentially was like hey man, hejust had an emotional
conversation there.
Naturally it wasn't on purpose.
He was pretty much like longstory short.
I told him about you.
He said I had to bring it back.
(03:02):
I did this job for this third.
I suck at it.
I just wanted to have somevalue.
I thought I was doing the rightthing.
But he was just being honest,he's honest self and because he
did that, that connected withthe space that she was in.
And so then they were able toand eventually she was like you
know, I'm brave enough to dothis, I could do it, I want to
(03:23):
help you guys.
And she wound up being one ofthe best like spies for the US.
That's the real story.
That part is basically the realstory, okay.
And then another one in thestory that I like was there was
a case of a guy who was like afelon or something and he saw
(03:45):
this job posting.
That said pretty much if youwant to be a security guard, you
gotta go here, you gotta get agun, da da da come over here,
register and get the job.
So he think he's doingsomething good.
So he goes, buys his gun, locksit away, puts it in his house.
So when he went, I think tolike go talk about the job.
they pretty much asked him like,yeah, do you have a gun?
He said, yeah, yeah, I boughtone, it's in the room, or
whatever, paraphrasing.
(04:05):
And so they ran his name.
You know, just do a search.
And they started.
He was a fella which you can'thave a gun so the guy's, like
the officer was like, hey, doyou have that gun?
He was like, oh, yeah, it's inthe house.
I don't say can you bring it tous?
So he brought it to him.
So they brought it to him, theylocked him up.
Wow, yeah.
So they locked him up and hewent to court.
You know, they had the jurorsand pretty much they had like a
(04:28):
three question sheet that prettymuch said did he have a gun?
Like it was three questionsthat literally was easy to say
guilty, right, and he was goingto go away for a long time.
So you had a bunch of jurors inthere, but you had this one,
one who was a quote-unquotesuper communicator, so he didn't
speak out of out, you know likeout of the gate.
He let everyone else speak.
He saw everyone else's stance.
So originally, long story short, he was able to communicate in
(04:53):
a way that they eventually sayhe was not guilty, but he had to
understand what everyone was inthe communication style or what
they were looking for in that.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
So you had some people, you had one guy who was
what?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
do you call it?
He was an ex-fire fire marshalor something, and he's very
policy driven and strict driven,like that was his whole stance.
But of course he didn't havethe words to say that until this
guy found a way to get him tosay what his true feelings were.
So his true feelings were itreally was nothing per se
(05:29):
against the guy, but he justfelt like rules and things were
needed, because if not, then saywe let this guy go and he go
hurt someone, et cetera.
So if we don't enforce rulesand we just let things go, then
anything can happen.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And so when the guy realized that, he spun the
conversation a little different.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
He was like you know what I actually agree with you.
He said but here's the thingwe're here debating and focused
on this guy who clearly bought agun, put it up in the shelf,
didn't have no plan of using itor anything.
When there's people out herethat are doing a lot with it, we
could be focused to your pointabout safety, so we shouldn't be
focused on this person.
(06:11):
This doesn't look like a personthat was trying to break the
rules.
This person doesn't even comeacross as that.
He stated it from thatstandpoint and then that guy was
able to come around.
So it's part of it aboutmeeting people where they are,
but just knowing whatconversation to have, and that
deep that, had that guy not beenwhat you call a super
communicator.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
that other guy goes to jail.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh, easily it was.
The vote was like nine.
It was like it was somethingcrazy.
At first it was not in hisfavor at all.
It was not in his favor.
All it was not in his favor.
It was like a educator who wasat first she was reserved,
because you know how educatorsare empathetic a little bit like
how do we know he couldcomprehend that that was like
that, and so she was from thatstandpoint and someone else was
(06:55):
from another standpoint, buteveryone else was like guilty at
first and he was like thestrong minded person of guilty.
So once the guy was able tocommunicate and figure out what
everyone was because essentiallywe realized that everybody had
their reservations for differentreasons.
So if that's your reasoning andI'm talking about this or from
(07:17):
this standpoint then I can'tmeet you where you are.
But if I, if I realize yourquestion is more about, or
you're more about, like safety,gun safety or something, and
then I address it from there,that's the place we can go.
If yours is more assault-basedand I address it from there, we
can move forward.
(07:37):
So you're good with that.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Obviously, I work with a lot of people and one of
the things you begin to realize,obviously I work with a lot of
people and one of the things youbegin to realize is not what
you say, is what they hear.
And when you have a lot ofdifferent personalities, you
it's just interesting because Ican say, I can have the
(08:04):
intention to fully know what Imean to say, and I can say the
same exact words to four or fivedifferent people and they all
hear four or five totallydifferent things in what I just
said.
And when you talk about being asuper communicator, I mean, you
(08:26):
know, going about the gamewithin the game.
Man, if you have that ability,if you have, if you have that
ability to and you were justdoing it when you were talking
at the beginning, how, like youwere having that conversation,
you like had a thought where youpause, that's powerful, that
that's a powerful pause to beable to say, okay, what
(08:46):
conversation are we having rightnow?
Is this an emotionalconversation?
Is this a logical conversation?
You know what I mean that thefact that you read the book one
is impressive, but the fact, orreading the book is impressive,
but number two, to have thepresence of mind, because you
know when the emotions are goingand you can start to feel
yourself getting hyped, to beable to just hit the pause
(09:08):
button and say, okay, what'shappening here right now.
I don't want to say a lot ofpeople don't have the ability to
do that, because everyone hasthe ability to do that, but you,
you sold me, I'm getting thatbook and I'm reading that book
because um, it's an audible tooI got coming up.
(09:29):
I got you coming up, so I'llI'll listen to while I'm
traveling you, you're like, Iknow you, you're, you're like,
because I like you know, IYou're like, because you know,
what I like.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
It's like psychology and stuff, but you don't think
of that stuff like that.
You're like wait, this is a butthen it makes sense, you're
like wait, but you're like thismake a lot of sense.
You're like it's crazy, itmakes sense like this, because
you have experience.
You have experience, but itmakes a ton of sense when you
read the book.
(09:59):
It's a great, great book.
It's a great book.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I remember this buddy of mine in high school and his
girlfriend.
They were great people.
But you're flashing me backright now because she'd always
say I love him but he doesn'tlisten to me.
And now, as you're sittingthere talking, I'm wondering was
(10:28):
he not listening to you or youwanted him to process that
conversation?
Like you know, you were havingthe emotional conversation, he's
being logical, or vice versa,whatever that is in that moment,
how many divorces would havenot happened if people had read
that book?
Or people getting fired?
I'm excited to read this, I'mexcited to listen to this book.
(10:54):
I tell you what?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
it wouldn't be 100%, because some of it still would
happen regardless.
I mean, you know, of course, ofcourse it would definitely, you
know, solve some issues andthings like that.
It would definitely solve someissues if you understand what
comes out of a book like that.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So how to be a super communicator is number one.
Learn about what supercommunication is and then give
yourself the ability.
Train yourself to have theability to pause and to think
what conversation we're havingright now and then to be able to
go into the communication withthat person in the conversation
(11:33):
that they're in, not in theconversation, like you said,
when you're talking to your mom,you realize what she was saying
and what you were about to sayand you stopped yourself and you
danced in her world.
I like it.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
But here's the thing too, when you dance in someone
else's world, like, let's say,if you were more in a, Because
every conversation isn'tnecessarily just practical, just
emotional.
Some conversations are both atdifferent points.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
No, for real, I'm laughing.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Flashback.
You are in that conversation,yeah, talking to somebody.
You have to figure out, okay,not only, what part of this
conversation are we necessarily?
in, but let's say if thestandpoint you're trying to do
is give someone practical advice, you would have to know how to
(12:30):
meet them emotionally.
It was an example of that.
It was a doctor who was who Ithink let's say that cancer was
like.
I think colon cancer orsomething like that, one of
those cancers.
Essentially, he would tell hispatients that you don't need
surgery, said if you're olderthan age.
The thought is, you die beforenatural causes, before you die
(12:52):
from cancer, so no need to gothrough all this chemotherapy to
radiation and stuff like that,let's just do active
surveillance.
So his thought was, if I tellpeople they don't need surgery,
just do active surveillance,they won't be happy like that,
like who wants to get cut.
But he was like what he noticedwas almost a lot of times when
(13:14):
he went to people and said thatthey still decided to do surgery
and it blew his mind.
He didn't understand.
He's like I don't get it.
I'm telling him not to.
This makes no sense.
So he realized he was theproblem in some form of his
communication.
So when he switched up hiscommunication style, instead of
just talking about hey, theseare the results, this is what I
(13:36):
suggest about.
Hey, these are the results,this is what I suggest.
He started to say things likehey, what does this diagnosis
mean to you?
And so then, when the personstarted talking, oh, this means
they'll start to just speak ofwhat.
They'll start to say how theyfeel, and now, that lets you
know where you need to go fromhere.
(13:57):
So they would say things likesomeone was like man, you know,
let's say, someone like myparent died from this situation
and you know, man, it just feelcrazy if I leave early, that you
know my kids are coming up inthis crazy world.
Who's going to guide them?
Or you know, I just don't wantto look like the weak link
telling someone I have cancer.
(14:18):
Now they feel like I'm weak andI'm you know.
I just don't want to look likethe weak link telling someone I
have cancer now they feel likeI'm weak and I'm, you know, not
able enough.
So once they express this self,you know where to have the
conversation.
So, quote unquote someone elseis having an emotional
conversation.
In that regard, that'stypically when you team down
with someone else, come in likethe other person, where they
relate to them from an emotionalspace, because that's where the
(14:38):
conversation wanted to go,where, let's say, if you had
your own situation that wasdifferent.
Like man, I totally feel you inthat.
Like I lost my pops when I wasyoung.
Now y'all connected, now youcan give practical advice.
Now you'd be like all right,but you know, if I could just
make a suggestion for you, Ithink we should.
(14:58):
Should do this, this and this.
These are some of the researchthat we've showed, because you
didn't just come in throwingnumbers, because that's not
where they were in theconversation.
They had it.
But once you connected wherethey were in that emotional
space, now you can present itfor me because they will hear it
now.
They will hear it differently.
Before they they weren't goingto hear that.
Like none of that stuff mattered, while they're thinking, like
(15:19):
man, I'm going to feel.
I don't want to feel weak.
This happened to my family.
This happened to my parents.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
They're thinking about that.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
So you talking these numbers, they're not listening.
But when you met them wherethey need to be met to a degree,
now they can hear because nowemotionally you showed them that
you care, so now they can meetyou there and they're more
receptive to that long, long agoI had a um.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I had this moment with someone I worked with where
I was giving them some coachingon some stuff and I didn't know
that they were like having likea family member I think it was
their, not their biological mom,but the lady who was like their
mom, who raised them, wasreally, really sick.
And I'm having thisconversation and I'm, like you
(16:09):
know, trying to encourage ormotivate you know all this stuff
, and they have this kind ofglazed look on their face, all
this stuff, and they have thiskind of glazed look on their
face and and so I'm trying to goharder because I'm like, okay,
they're not getting it.
So now I'm going, like I'mlevel one to like 15, and they
had this glazed look on theirface.
(16:30):
So now I'm like, so now I'mgoing harder, now I'm like so
now I'm going harder.
Now I'm on level 30 and I'm onlevel 45.
And I'm and I probably wastalking, and this is like it's
like I don't know, like 20 yearsago or something I was, I was
all in.
I'm like like veins popping inmy forehead, like I'm going, and
(16:54):
they had the same look on theirface.
So finally I'm like, yeah,what's up Like why aren't you
responding?
And they said well, the womanwho raised me is dying and, man,
you want to talk about feelingcrazy.
I'm sitting here, I'm lookingat them and it's like you know
(17:15):
what do you say.
So I'm like you know, I'm sosorry and you know this whole
thing.
But really what I took fromthat was I never stopped to
think about what the otherperson was thinking about before
I said what I was saying,before I said what I was saying.
(17:35):
And it's like when you'retrying to get someone to get the
point but you don't know wherethey're coming from, like what
you're talking about in thatmoment I literally talked for
like 40 minutes before they saidanything.
I felt crazy because I couldhave found that out within the
first 30 seconds.
(17:57):
I could have picked up like Imean, you know they're not
responding at all to what I'mtalking about.
And I made the decision, man,that day, that I would be super,
I would be conscious of peopleand not just come to people and
have like a fix.
Here's the point I'm trying tomake.
But I'm like like try and beaware of where people are, but
(18:17):
I'm, as you're sitting theretalking, I'm thinking about
conversations that went left,that had I had this information,
to pause and think real time,the most part that I'm going to
read.
I'm going to listen to the bookbecause I'm going to listen to
the book.
But the most powerful part ofthis was when you paused real
(18:37):
time and thought about where isthis conversation going right
now and to be able to adjust tomake it an effective, because if
you're talking to nobody'sgetting what you're talking
about, because it was likewhat's the point.
The most powerful thing I goton top of the concept was the
(19:01):
power of that pause.
Yeah, that pause is powerful.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's not, it's after reading the book, I don't.
You're always thinking likethat now, to a degree.
Like there's a young lady I wasdealing with and she called me
one day after work.
Right, she called me one dayafter work and she like venting
about work.
Usually, you know my friends orpeople, they call me for advice
(19:33):
.
She's venting about work.
But I realized in the moment Iwas like, oh, she just needs to
say what's on her mind.
She's not.
I don't need to give a lick ofadvice.
The reason I know.
I didn't get me to give alittle advice because as I was
listening, I tried to be funny,so the stuff she was talking
(19:54):
about don't sound like you needit.
But it seemed like the advicewould be obvious and or she knew
what to do.
Like it's not like I know, youknow what to do.
I just feel like you, you everhad somebody where they complain
, they're super frustrated aboutsomething, and you just hearing
everything and then like she'sout doing things and then she
like randomly got mad atsomebody that was out there,
(20:15):
like move your way all thisstuff.
And I was like, yeah, you justneed to vent what's going on,
because I'm like there's a lotgoing on.
You're just trying to say whatyou need to say, get the emotion
off you.
This is just your outlet rightnow.
So I understand what space Ineed to occupy, so I'll just
(20:41):
occupy that and look at it nomore than that.
Where it's like you're askingme what would I do?
Because if that was the case,you're going to ask me to a
degree like what would whatwould I do?
Well, you'll formulate theconversation a little bit
different, but in this space, inthis time, what you need
occupied is just somebody on thephone and you're vented.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Cool, that's all I'm laughing because I'm thinking
about um, one of my mentors.
Um always says it'll workitself out.
So I get on the phone with himand I'm hot, I'm in Mississippi
Fish grease.
Hot, I'm hot, I'm mad.
This is working.
That's not working.
He's just sitting therelistening and I'm going, and I'm
(21:17):
going, and I'm going, and I'mgoing, and I'm going, and I'm
going, and I'm going, I'm going,I'm going, I'm going, I'm going
, I'm going, and he's like sohow do you feel about that?
I'm like, yeah, and na na, na,na, na, na, na, na na na na.
And then he's like, okay, whatabout?
How do you feel about that?
And I'm going, I'm like yeah,and at the end he says, yeah,
it'll all work out.
I got to the point of it'll allwork out.
I was so tired of talking aboutit that he just did what he was
(21:38):
supposed to do.
He recognized real time what Ineeded and just let me do it.
That's powerful.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
That's why he kept asking what do you think about
that?
Because you're unpackingeverything, Correct.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I just let it all out .
15 minutes later, theconversation's done, but it's
still.
15 minutes later,conversation's done, but it's
still fifteen minutes, butconversation's done.
And that is the difference,that man.
Yeah, I'm gonna enjoy this.
Thanks, jamel, I appreciate it.
Good looking out.
I actually took time to learnabout how incredible you were.
(22:12):
Nothing would ever stop you See.
The definition of sight is thefaculty or power of seeing.
All in.
I'm like veins popping in myforehead, like I'm going, and
they had the same look on theirface.
So, finally, I'm like yo,what's up?
Like?
Why aren't you responding?
And they said well, the woman,if you actually took time to
learn about how incredible youwere nothing would ever stop you
(00:22):
.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So when I realized she was talking, I was like, oh,
this isn't a conversation whereI need to give advice.
She isn't asking for that.
This isn't a seeking advice.
So now, if I would have startedto give advice or something, we
could have then butted headsright there because I'm looking
at just do one, two, three, fouras practical, and that's not
the space that person is lookingfrom.
So I've started to notice thatin communications with people,
(00:46):
where I sit and think, okay,what are they?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well, hold on a second.
Break it down for me real quick, because I remember you told me
about the book.
I haven't read the book.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
But someone.
I mean I'm going to buy thebook because this is the second
time you're bringing it up.
Yeah, yeah, but justfoundationally.
What are the differentcommunications styles?
You said emotional, practical,then the other one I haven't
really read that far into thebook yet.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
But the other one is like who we are.
But so far in the book, so farthe one that you talk about the
most are emotional and practical.
So in the first part of thebook they talk about this guy
who was working for the CIA.
He was working for the CIA, hewas in the like, the Middle East
, and he wanted to.
It comes out that he wanted tobe the CIA because he wanted to
(01:35):
feel important and have value,these kind of things.
So he met a young lady overthere in the Middle East and he
told her first he worked forlike some company, I don't know
what they were selling, justlike an average company, and so
they went out a few times.
So eventually he told her thathe was a CIA agent and that he
(01:56):
was trying to recruit herBecause once he told his job
that he had a potential person,they had already.
Maybe he told his managersomething and they told the vice
president.
So it was kind of like yeah,you better come back with this
person.
And so now the pressure is on.
So the first time he spoke toher, he just spoke in once, he
dropped that bomb on her.
She was like no, like youtrying to get me killed, even
(02:18):
though she didn't like thethings that were going on in
their country, her country, etc.
Because of the way he, you know, came about communicated it
threw her off.
It was bad.
She didn't want to talk to him.
So eventually the last timethey had met, essentially he was
about to get fired if he didn'tget the get hurt.
(02:40):
So he convinced her to go outto dinner one more time and he
essentially was like hey man, hejust had an emotional
conversation there.
Naturally it wasn't on purpose.
He was pretty much like longstory short.
I told him about you.
He said I had to bring it back.
(03:02):
I did this job for this third.
I suck at it.
I just wanted to have somevalue.
I thought I was doing the rightthing.
But he was just being honest,he's honest self and because he
did that, that connected withthe space that she was in.
And so then they were able toand eventually she was like you
know, I'm brave enough to dothis, I could do it, I want to
(03:23):
help you guys.
And she wound up being one ofthe best like spies for the US.
That's the real story.
That part is basically the realstory, okay.
And then another one in thestory that I like was there was
a case of a guy who was like afelon or something and he saw
(03:45):
this job posting.
That said pretty much if youwant to be a security guard, you
gotta go here, you gotta get agun, da da da come over here,
register and get the job.
So he think he's doingsomething good.
So he goes, buys his gun, locksit away, puts it in his house.
So when he went, I think tolike go talk about the job.
they pretty much asked him like,yeah, do you have a gun?
He said, yeah, yeah, I boughtone, it's in the room, or
whatever, paraphrasing.
(04:05):
And so they ran his name.
You know, just do a search.
And they started.
He was a fella which you can'thave a gun so the guy's, like
the officer was like, hey, doyou have that gun?
He was like, oh, yeah, it's inthe house.
I don't say can you bring it tous?
So he brought it to him.
So they brought it to him, theylocked him up.
Wow, yeah.
So they locked him up and hewent to court.
You know, they had the jurorsand pretty much they had like a
(04:28):
three question sheet that prettymuch said did he have a gun?
Like it was three questionsthat literally was easy to say
guilty, right, and he was goingto go away for a long time.
So you had a bunch of jurors inthere, but you had this one,
one who was a quote-unquotesuper communicator, so he didn't
speak out of out, you know likeout of the gate.
He let everyone else speak.
He saw everyone else's stance.
So originally, long story short, he was able to communicate in
(04:53):
a way that they eventually sayhe was not guilty, but he had to
understand what everyone was inthe communication style or what
they were looking for in that.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
So you had some people, you had one guy who was
what?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
do you call it?
He was an ex-fire fire marshalor something, and he's very
policy driven and strict driven,like that was his whole stance.
But of course he didn't havethe words to say that until this
guy found a way to get him tosay what his true feelings were.
So his true feelings were itreally was nothing per se
(05:29):
against the guy, but he justfelt like rules and things were
needed, because if not, then saywe let this guy go and he go
hurt someone, et cetera.
So if we don't enforce rulesand we just let things go, then
anything can happen.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And so when the guy realized that, he spun the
conversation a little different.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
He was like you know what I actually agree with you.
He said but here's the thingwe're here debating and focused
on this guy who clearly bought agun, put it up in the shelf,
didn't have no plan of using itor anything.
When there's people out herethat are doing a lot with it, we
could be focused to your pointabout safety, so we shouldn't be
focused on this person.
(06:11):
This doesn't look like a personthat was trying to break the
rules.
This person doesn't even comeacross as that.
He stated it from thatstandpoint and then that guy was
able to come around.
So it's part of it aboutmeeting people where they are,
but just knowing whatconversation to have, and that
deep that, had that guy not beenwhat you call a super
communicator.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
that other guy goes to jail.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oh, easily it was.
The vote was like nine.
It was like it was somethingcrazy.
At first it was not in hisfavor at all.
It was not in his favor.
All it was not in his favor.
It was like a educator who wasat first she was reserved,
because you know how educatorsare empathetic a little bit like
how do we know he couldcomprehend that that was like
that, and so she was from thatstandpoint and someone else was
(06:55):
from another standpoint, buteveryone else was like guilty at
first and he was like thestrong minded person of guilty.
So once the guy was able tocommunicate and figure out what
everyone was because essentiallywe realized that everybody had
their reservations for differentreasons.
So if that's your reasoning andI'm talking about this or from
(07:17):
this standpoint then I can'tmeet you where you are.
But if I, if I realize yourquestion is more about, or
you're more about, like safety,gun safety or something, and
then I address it from there,that's the place we can go.
If yours is more assault-basedand I address it from there, we
can move forward.
(07:37):
So you're good with that.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Obviously, I work with a lot of people and one of
the things you begin to realize,obviously I work with a lot of
people and one of the things youbegin to realize is not what
you say, is what they hear.
And when you have a lot ofdifferent personalities, you
it's just interesting because Ican say, I can have the
(08:04):
intention to fully know what Imean to say, and I can say the
same exact words to four or fivedifferent people and they all
hear four or five totallydifferent things in what I just
said.
And when you talk about being asuper communicator, I mean, you
(08:26):
know, going about the gamewithin the game.
Man, if you have that ability,if you have, if you have that
ability to and you were justdoing it when you were talking
at the beginning, how, like youwere having that conversation,
you like had a thought where youpause, that's powerful, that
that's a powerful pause to beable to say, okay, what
(08:46):
conversation are we having rightnow?
Is this an emotionalconversation?
Is this a logical conversation?
You know what I mean that thefact that you read the book one
is impressive, but the fact, orreading the book is impressive,
but number two, to have thepresence of mind, because you
know when the emotions are goingand you can start to feel
yourself getting hyped, to beable to just hit the pause
(09:08):
button and say, okay, what'shappening here right now.
I don't want to say a lot ofpeople don't have the ability to
do that, because everyone hasthe ability to do that, but you,
you sold me, I'm getting thatbook and I'm reading that book
because um, it's an audible tooI got coming up.
(09:29):
I got you coming up, so I'llI'll listen to while I'm
traveling you, you're like, Iknow you, you're, you're like,
because I like you know, IYou're like, because you know,
what I like.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
It's like psychology and stuff, but you don't think
of that stuff like that.
You're like wait, this is a butthen it makes sense, you're
like wait, but you're like thismake a lot of sense.
You're like it's crazy, itmakes sense like this, because
you have experience.
You have experience, but itmakes a ton of sense when you
read the book.
(09:59):
It's a great, great book.
It's a great book.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I remember this buddy of mine in high school and his
girlfriend.
They were great people.
But you're flashing me backright now because she'd always
say I love him but he doesn'tlisten to me.
And now, as you're sittingthere talking, I'm wondering was
(10:28):
he not listening to you or youwanted him to process that
conversation?
Like you know, you were havingthe emotional conversation, he's
being logical, or vice versa,whatever that is in that moment,
how many divorces would havenot happened if people had read
that book?
Or people getting fired?
I'm excited to read this, I'mexcited to listen to this book.
(10:54):
I tell you what?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
it wouldn't be 100%, because some of it still would
happen regardless.
I mean, you know, of course, ofcourse it would definitely, you
know, solve some issues andthings like that.
It would definitely solve someissues if you understand what
comes out of a book like that.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So how to be a super communicator is number one.
Learn about what supercommunication is and then give
yourself the ability.
Train yourself to have theability to pause and to think
what conversation we're havingright now and then to be able to
go into the communication withthat person in the conversation
(11:33):
that they're in, not in theconversation, like you said,
when you're talking to your mom,you realize what she was saying
and what you were about to sayand you stopped yourself and you
danced in her world.
I like it.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
But here's the thing too, when you dance in someone
else's world, like, let's say,if you were more in a, Because
every conversation isn'tnecessarily just practical, just
emotional.
Some conversations are both atdifferent points.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
No, for real, I'm laughing.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Flashback.
You are in that conversation,yeah, talking to somebody.
You have to figure out, okay,not only, what part of this
conversation are we necessarily?
in, but let's say if thestandpoint you're trying to do
is give someone practical advice, you would have to know how to
(12:30):
meet them emotionally.
It was an example of that.
It was a doctor who was who Ithink let's say that cancer was
like.
I think colon cancer orsomething like that, one of
those cancers.
Essentially, he would tell hispatients that you don't need
surgery, said if you're olderthan age.
The thought is, you die beforenatural causes, before you die
(12:52):
from cancer, so no need to gothrough all this chemotherapy to
radiation and stuff like that,let's just do active
surveillance.
So his thought was, if I tellpeople they don't need surgery,
just do active surveillance,they won't be happy like that,
like who wants to get cut.
But he was like what he noticedwas almost a lot of times when
(13:14):
he went to people and said thatthey still decided to do surgery
and it blew his mind.
He didn't understand.
He's like I don't get it.
I'm telling him not to.
This makes no sense.
So he realized he was theproblem in some form of his
communication.
So when he switched up hiscommunication style, instead of
just talking about hey, theseare the results, this is what I
(13:36):
suggest about.
Hey, these are the results,this is what I suggest.
He started to say things likehey, what does this diagnosis
mean to you?
And so then, when the personstarted talking, oh, this means
they'll start to just speak ofwhat.
They'll start to say how theyfeel, and now, that lets you
know where you need to go fromhere.
(13:57):
So they would say things likesomeone was like man, you know,
let's say, someone like myparent died from this situation
and you know, man, it just feelcrazy if I leave early, that you
know my kids are coming up inthis crazy world.
Who's going to guide them?
Or you know, I just don't wantto look like the weak link
telling someone I have cancer.
(14:18):
Now they feel like I'm weak andI'm you know.
I just don't want to look likethe weak link telling someone I
have cancer now they feel likeI'm weak and I'm, you know, not
able enough.
So once they express this self,you know where to have the
conversation.
So, quote unquote someone elseis having an emotional
conversation.
In that regard, that'stypically when you team down
with someone else, come in likethe other person, where they
relate to them from an emotionalspace, because that's where the
(14:38):
conversation wanted to go,where, let's say, if you had
your own situation that wasdifferent.
Like man, I totally feel you inthat.
Like I lost my pops when I wasyoung.
Now y'all connected, now youcan give practical advice.
Now you'd be like all right,but you know, if I could just
make a suggestion for you, Ithink we should.
(14:58):
Should do this, this and this.
These are some of the researchthat we've showed, because you
didn't just come in throwingnumbers, because that's not
where they were in theconversation.
They had it.
But once you connected wherethey were in that emotional
space, now you can present itfor me because they will hear it
now.
They will hear it differently.
Before they they weren't goingto hear that.
Like none of that stuff mattered, while they're thinking, like
(15:19):
man, I'm going to feel.
I don't want to feel weak.
This happened to my family.
This happened to my parents.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
They're thinking about that.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
So you talking these numbers, they're not listening.
But when you met them wherethey need to be met to a degree,
now they can hear because nowemotionally you showed them that
you care, so now they can meetyou there and they're more
receptive to that long, long agoI had a um.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I had this moment with someone I worked with where
I was giving them some coachingon some stuff and I didn't know
that they were like having likea family member I think it was
their, not their biological mom,but the lady who was like their
mom, who raised them, wasreally, really sick.
And I'm having thisconversation and I'm, like you
(16:09):
know, trying to encourage ormotivate you know all this stuff
, and they have this kind ofglazed look on their face, all
this stuff, and they have thiskind of glazed look on their
face and and so I'm trying to goharder because I'm like, okay,
they're not getting it.
So now I'm going, like I'mlevel one to like 15, and they
had this glazed look on theirface.
(16:30):
So now I'm like, so now I'mgoing harder, now I'm like so
now I'm going harder.
Now I'm on level 30 and I'm onlevel 45.
And I'm and I probably wastalking, and this is like it's
like I don't know, like 20 yearsago or something I was, I was
all in.
I'm like like veins popping inmy forehead, like I'm going, and
(16:54):
they had the same look on theirface.
So finally I'm like, yeah,what's up Like why aren't you
responding?
And they said well, the womanwho raised me is dying and, man,
you want to talk about feelingcrazy.
I'm sitting here, I'm lookingat them and it's like you know
(17:15):
what do you say.
So I'm like you know, I'm sosorry and you know this whole
thing.
But really what I took fromthat was I never stopped to
think about what the otherperson was thinking about before
I said what I was saying,before I said what I was saying.
(17:35):
And it's like when you'retrying to get someone to get the
point but you don't know wherethey're coming from, like what
you're talking about in thatmoment I literally talked for
like 40 minutes before they saidanything.
I felt crazy because I couldhave found that out within the
first 30 seconds.
(17:57):
I could have picked up like Imean, you know they're not
responding at all to what I'mtalking about.
And I made the decision, man,that day, that I would be super,
I would be conscious of peopleand not just come to people and
have like a fix.
Here's the point I'm trying tomake.
But I'm like like try and beaware of where people are, but
(18:17):
I'm, as you're sitting theretalking, I'm thinking about
conversations that went left,that had I had this information,
to pause and think real time,the most part that I'm going to
read.
I'm going to listen to the bookbecause I'm going to listen to
the book.
But the most powerful part ofthis was when you paused real
(18:37):
time and thought about where isthis conversation going right
now and to be able to adjust tomake it an effective, because if
you're talking to nobody'sgetting what you're talking
about, because it was likewhat's the point.
The most powerful thing I goton top of the concept was the
(19:01):
power of that pause.
Yeah, that pause is powerful.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's not, it's after reading the book, I don't.
You're always thinking likethat now, to a degree.
Like there's a young lady I wasdealing with and she called me
one day after work.
Right, she called me one dayafter work and she like venting
about work.
Usually, you know my friends orpeople, they call me for advice
(19:33):
.
She's venting about work.
But I realized in the moment Iwas like, oh, she just needs to
say what's on her mind.
She's not.
I don't need to give a lick ofadvice.
The reason I know.
I didn't get me to give alittle advice because as I was
listening, I tried to be funny,so the stuff she was talking
(19:54):
about don't sound like you needit.
But it seemed like the advicewould be obvious and or she knew
what to do.
Like it's not like I know, youknow what to do.
I just feel like you, you everhad somebody where they complain
, they're super frustrated aboutsomething, and you just hearing
everything and then like she'sout doing things and then she
like randomly got mad atsomebody that was out there,
(20:15):
like move your way all thisstuff.
And I was like, yeah, you justneed to vent what's going on,
because I'm like there's a lotgoing on.
You're just trying to say whatyou need to say, get the emotion
off you.
This is just your outlet rightnow.
So I understand what space Ineed to occupy, so I'll just
(20:41):
occupy that and look at it nomore than that.
Where it's like you're askingme what would I do?
Because if that was the case,you're going to ask me to a
degree like what would whatwould I do?
Well, you'll formulate theconversation a little bit
different, but in this space, inthis time, what you need
occupied is just somebody on thephone and you're vented.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Cool, that's all I'm laughing because I'm thinking
about um, one of my mentors.
Um always says it'll workitself out.
So I get on the phone with himand I'm hot, I'm in Mississippi
Fish grease.
Hot, I'm hot, I'm mad.
This is working.
That's not working.
He's just sitting therelistening and I'm going, and I'm
(21:17):
going, and I'm going, and I'mgoing, and I'm going, and I'm
going, and I'm going, I'm going,I'm going, I'm going, I'm going
, I'm going, and he's like sohow do you feel about that?
I'm like, yeah, and na na, na,na, na, na, na, na na na na.
And then he's like, okay, whatabout?
How do you feel about that?
And I'm going, I'm like yeah,and at the end he says, yeah,
it'll all work out.
I got to the point of it'll allwork out.
I was so tired of talking aboutit that he just did what he was
(21:38):
supposed to do.
He recognized real time what Ineeded and just let me do it.
That's powerful.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
That's why he kept asking what do you think about
that?
Because you're unpackingeverything, Correct.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I just let it all out .
15 minutes later, theconversation's done, but it's
still.
15 minutes later,conversation's done, but it's
still fifteen minutes, butconversation's done.
And that is the difference,that man.
Yeah, I'm gonna enjoy this.
Thanks, jamel, I appreciate it.
Good looking out.
I actually took time to learnabout how incredible you were.
(22:12):
Nothing would ever stop you See.
The definition of sight is thefaculty or power of seeing.
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