December 19, 2023 • 36 mins
In this episode of "Amplified Marriage", we discuss the rollercoaster of emotions and experiences that come with the Christmas season. From the rush of shopping for gifts in crowded malls to the glittery decorations in homes and the financial burden, we delve into the often unspoken difficulties of the holidays. In this episode, we tackle the complexity of family gatherings, which can sometimes feel like an emotional minefield, and the high expectations that surround this particular holiday. Moving beyond that, we also examine the amplified emotions that come with Christmas, especially related to family dynamics, financial stress, and the pressure to maintain a festive spirit.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bryan (00:01):
Picture this.
It's Christmas, and you'reracing through the mall like
it's an Olympic sport, trying tofind the perfect gift that
screams thoughtful, but itwhispers, I totally forgot.
Back at home, your living roomlooks like it was hit by a
glitter bomb.
Meanwhile, your wallet isweeping softly, mourning its
once plump state.
And let's not forget the familygatherings.
(00:21):
They're like a game of emotionaldodgeball, where you're trying
to avoid that one relative'sawkward questions, but wait,
there's much more.
Amidst all this, you're expectedto cook a feast that would make
Gordon Ramsay weep, all thewhile keeping your festive
spirit brighter.
Then Rudolph's nose.
So grab your eggnog folks.
We're about to dive deep intothe Holly jolly chaos that is
(00:43):
Christmas.
Let's find out why decking thehalls can feel more like decking
your sanity.
Welcome to another episode ofamplified marriage.
(01:06):
I'm Brian.
I'm Natalie.
Whatever you're doing,potentially drinking eggnog or
sipping some nice spiced rum orenjoying some Christmas music,
whatever you're doing, we are soglad that you've joined us today
and we are excited to have agood chat with you.
Natalie (01:21):
That's right.
If you missed last episode, we,we've kind of started our
Christmas series and we weretalking about children and sort
of the financial stresses ofhaving a little money or no
money and what could you do,what we did, uh, with our
children when we were.
Uh, experiencing, uh, leaneryears,
Bryan (01:43):
leaner, leaner years, uh, as we were kind of just talking
about this because we're rightin the middle of Christmas,
we're probably experiencing alot of this.
Um, there's quite a few thingsaround Christmas that are
heightened, like the name of thepodcast amplified.
Things are amplified atChristmas and it's, it's an
(02:03):
interesting thing to, to talkabout because really, because
we're Christians, I evenpreached a message is that Jesus
is the reason for the season.
And for whatever reason, rightaround this time, there's even
the, some of the things we'regoing to talk about.
There's this odd expectation foreverything that the Christmas
(02:25):
gifts are going to be perfectthat the family dynamics like
are going to be like perfect andharmonious and there's going to
be unity in the family eventhough we fought all year and
then this one time a year wecome together at on the last
month of the year for maybe aweek at a time and everything's
just going to be hunky dory justlike the Hallmark movies like we
fought and argued and all thestuff but all Christmas comes
and the Christmas spirit changeseverything.
(02:46):
Well, it doesn't, it actuallytakes those already heightened
emotions, already amplifiedfeelings and all that's going on
and just makes it worse.
Like sometimes I would say theseason.
Brings it around
Natalie (03:02):
like the being Christmas invites that kind of
Bryan (03:08):
sometimes, but in, in our experience, like there, there's
not really a whole reason as towhy, like, well, I think
Natalie (03:17):
you have to, I mean, we're going to dive into like
our family dynamics externallyfrom our just immediate, because
that's what we're talking abouttoday, but, um, there's a lot of
variables and.
Um, not every, you know, I havespent many Christmases on
(03:39):
eggshells because you justdidn't know the kind of state of
mind that the remainder of yourfamily was in.
Right.
And I mean, we were away fromfamily for.
years.
Yeah.
And I think in, in that 12years, we're only, we only
traveled at Christmastime to seethem one time.
Bryan (03:58):
No, it was twice.
We, we came once and my dadcouldn't make it down.
So we ended up flying in.
And then one time we drove justbefore Christmas, we were there
twice.
Natalie (04:08):
So twice in 12 years, not a lot.
No.
And so.
So at the time, like both setsof families lived where we live.
And so it was juggling and itwas incredibly
Bryan (04:18):
stressful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I think we discussedthis as we came down, like now
we spend every Christmas withour, with my brother in law and
my sister and their four kids.
And it's amazing.
And my mom and my grandma thatare here, but it took the first
year or two for us to kind ofget.
past the fact that, Hey, we'renot having a Christmas just on
our own.
We're actually now obligated.
(04:39):
And this is, we love being withour family.
Hear me when I say this, we havea really good relationship with
them, really good relationshipwith them.
We love being with them, butthere's an obligation that comes
at Christmas time.
And we had to get.
Past the fact there's anobligation for us to be with
them at Christmas, right?
because we were so used to doingChristmas just on our own and
then going to see our friends orOur family that happened to be
(05:00):
in the town that we were inright?
Natalie (05:02):
Could I word it more in seven obligation?
We needed to be intentional.
Bryan (05:06):
Yeah, that's good
Natalie (05:08):
obligation obligation kind of has a negative Um, for
me anyways, it kind of has anegative meaning
Bryan (05:16):
considering your family.
I can see why that obligationwould be
Natalie (05:18):
negative with Brian's family.
It's not an, uh, an obligatorything.
It's more of, okay, it's not,it's not just us and us coming
and going as we please doingwhat we want.
Although we can still do what wewant.
We're intentional about spendingtime with our family because
it's a value to us.
Bryan (05:35):
Absolutely.
And so there's, there, we justwant to go through a few things,
um, that people are going to,that you're going to struggle
with.
And we'll talk a little bit ofour own families as we get
through this, but the very firstone we've mentioned it a couple
of times is there's highexpectations.
It's interesting that the, Ithink that at this time of year,
there's probably moreexpectation, high expectations
(05:55):
in any other holiday.
I would agree.
Easter, Thanksgiving, uh,because all together.
Natalie (06:03):
For us, we want to give good gifts to our kids, and I've
been the recipient in my owngrowing up years of, of just the
opposite of not great gifts.
And so I'm really intentionalabout paying attention
throughout the year.
What do my children like?
What are they into?
Yeah.
What speaks to their heart sothat when I'm gift giving, um,
(06:27):
it makes sense to them.
It's not just stuff that I likeand I hope it lands no, but like
Bryan (06:34):
I bought them these shoes because I really liked them on
them and they're like, well, Idon't want those shoes because
Natalie (06:39):
that's not, that's not what I asked for.
And yes, it's not about thegifts, although there, there is
like, if I'm.
Giving gifts to my kids.
I want them to be good gifts.
Yeah.
Bryan (06:48):
Oh, yeah, and but no matter what there's a high
expectation And
Natalie (06:52):
I think that oh, yes, cuz I struggle with Did I do
enough?
What if they don't like it eventhough they asked for it?
But what if it, what if theyjust said they wanted it, but
didn't really want it.
And so I do this whole
Bryan (07:02):
song and dance that, that I, I understand, but I don't
fully, I mean, it's not fully infor me to be like, that's just
not part of like, I get it, butI'm not like sold on that.
Like the kids have always lovedeverything we've always gotten.
They've never not.
Natalie (07:19):
And I think, well, and that's just, you know, wounds
from my own.
Yeah.
Growing up years that, I mean, Irealized I, I project in that
moment.
So how,
Bryan (07:32):
how, how, what do you mean by that?
Like what, what kind of woundsare you, have gotten you to that
place where, when we have ourown kids?
Cause I would say that youdon't, you may project the
anxiety of the gift giving, butyou don't, you don't produce the
consequences of the gift giving.
Natalie (07:50):
Okay.
I see what you mean.
Yes.
Okay.
So then I project the anxietyand it stresses me out.
And it's with anybody.
Bryan (07:56):
Yeah, it is with anyone.
It's not just a Christmas.
It doesn't
Natalie (07:59):
matter.
See,
Bryan (08:01):
here's, here's, here's the thing about Christmas
though, is if you take a bigdinner, um, gift giving special
holidays, extra gifts, familycoming in all of those things on
their own, don't really.
are can be anxiety inducing, butthey're not, they're not big on
their own.
They're not huge.
You take all five or six ofthese things and slam them into
one holiday.
(08:21):
And then you got anxious aboutall those things.
And so when the gifts comearound, you're like, man, I hope
I did the right thing.
Natalie (08:26):
Exactly.
And so then I am.
Um, it's just incrediblyuncomfortable for me whenever
someone's opening a gift.
I bought them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And to this day, I stillstruggle in that area of just,
you know, because I just, maybethat'll be a different podcast
Bryan (08:50):
where I'm going.
I know.
And I think that the.
When the expectations aren't metin, as in anything in life, but
in the amplified state ofChristmas, there's this, when
they're not met, you just, youfeel like you're disappointed or
you're going to be stressed out.
I can tell you safely for 24years, we've been together.
I've never had a gift from youthat I've not liked or that
(09:11):
didn't, that didn't hit home.
That wasn't the right one.
And that, but that's alsobecause of who we are.
And how we try to live our lifewith contentment and integrity
and honor, and you're going tofind the right things for me and
you're thoughtful and you'regoing to think, but that takes
time.
Natalie (09:25):
Yes.
And that takes reassurance.
Right.
Right.
And so you've never given me areason to, for me to doubt even
when I was to you biggest jerk.
Yeah.
And, and even the kids, likethey've never given me a reason
to feel this way.
This is just, and I think if I'mdoing.
(09:47):
Uh, self reflection, I feel likeI've gotten a lot better as time
has gone on where, where I'mconfident.
Bryan (09:56):
Yeah.
I would, I would say thatyou're, you're at your most
confident right now when yougive the gifts cause you know,
that's what they want.
But
Natalie (10:02):
there was a time where, um, It was, it caused incredible
anxiety to even think about agift and then you're stressing
about it all night long.
And then other family areopening their gifts and they're
like, Oh my gosh, it's amazing.
And then there have been timeswhere it has come to my gift and
(10:23):
it has just not, and
Bryan (10:25):
that's, that's part of the, the projection from what's
happened with your family,right?
Natalie (10:33):
That's part, I guess the projecting is, is stems from
the reality of
Bryan (10:37):
what has happened and the wounds and the trauma of those
moments.
I've been there in the room whenthat's happened and I have
spoken up and said somethingwhile you were in tears because
of the gift that was thoughtfulthat was actually spoken by said
person was what they wanted, butmade you feel like garbage in
that moment.
And then even your dad wasupset.
(10:57):
He's like, how can you possiblysay that?
I remember that.
So it's those moments that youremember in your history that
now, but you've never, you'venever projected that you've
never put the consequence ofthat on the kids, like made them
feel bad or disappointed
Natalie (11:13):
or, yeah, no, this is like, this is just.
When it, I have to be reallycautious and I have to be really
mindful of my own state of mind.
Because family dynamics, um, inmy case really sucked.
Yeah.
Bryan (11:28):
And Christmas time was,
Natalie (11:30):
was, and, and there was, you know, I remember when
we first moved here back from,uh, up north and, uh, my dad had
just passed away and theexcitement and like my, my
birthday is Christmas.
And so there's a level ofexcitement.
Um, that I have, and I love mybirthday and I love Christmas.
(11:53):
And so it had been hyped up tobe this like big, huge
celebratory, you know, we playcharades and we play all these
games and we dress up and I, Iwas so excited for our first
Christmas back around family.
To have this whole entire, um,like party I had made it to be
(12:14):
an experience and what everyonearound me had, had, um,
reiterated that this is in factwhat we do.
And so, Um, it was the polaropposite of that.
We were the only ones dressedup.
Everyone else was in flannelsand no one sort of gave us the
memo that no one was dressed up.
A family was drinking and familywas smoking and fighting,
Bryan (12:36):
like fighting, viciously arguing
Natalie (12:38):
and fighting.
And I, and our kids were littleat this time.
And I just looked at Brian andI'm like, never again will I
ever come to this place with myfamily.
Oh, we never did.
And
Bryan (12:51):
we never, we always did the day or two after, but never
Natalie (12:54):
did again.
Right.
And it's, it was theseridiculous things of like, you
know, Oh, can you guys bringthis?
And then, and then we bringthat.
They're like, well, we alreadyhave that sort of nonsense.
The whole thing was justnonsense and it
Bryan (13:07):
was, yeah.
And they didn't see it.
Cause we showed up at what threein the afternoon and already
half of them had been drinkingsince like nine and 10 and they
were already arguing and
Natalie (13:17):
fighting.
We left early.
I was so
Bryan (13:19):
mad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was a very short day.
So I mean the high expectationsfor everything and people handle
it in their own way.
And we talked about this nextone last week, just on the
financial stretches, stresses ofChristmas.
If you listened to the last oneswe did talk about.
Being able to bless your familyand your kids with little.
And how do you do that and howdo you approach that and the
attitude and perspective?
Natalie (13:41):
Um, you know what?
If it was one, let's say youcan't, I just want to say this
before we move on to the next,um, section, but if it's one.
Handmade gift.
And that's all that you coulddo.
That's enough.
Yeah.
Right.
And, and I'm, I'm speaking tomyself because I get caught up
(14:02):
too in the hustle bustle oflike, well, you know, trying to
match.
It's not keeping up with theJoneses because we're not those
people, but there, there is anelement of like, well, you know,
one gift doesn't seem enough.
Right.
And then like, where does itstop?
Yeah.
I know.
And, and to be okay and contentwith one gift, most definitely.
Can be enough.
Bryan (14:22):
Yeah.
And so the financial stress,we've already talked quite a bit
about that.
Finally, family dynamics.
This is the next one.
And this is a hard one.
Well, and we're no matter whatwe're doing, because Christmas
oftentimes is about family,family dynamics are going to be
wrapped up in all that we do inthe high expectations in the
financial stresses.
Um, yeah.
Like I said,
Natalie (14:42):
even at the alcohol, like in our family, you add
alcohol to the mix and that justopens all kinds of wounds that
you thought were dealt with.
Bryan (14:48):
Right.
Because they're like, youremember that time?
Right.
And then they say things andthey do things.
And cause we're, we're not thosekinds of drinkers.
Um, and so for us, it was, itwas actually sit back and watch
other people make fools ofthemselves.
That was quite amusing for us,but it's still at some point
it's just, okay, it's a littlebit overboard, but this is what
happens at Christmas time isthere's really high
expectations, expectations.
(15:11):
Then they come and instead of itbeing the unifying push that
they hope it was, it ends upjust being a fight.
And then they walk away evenmore angry than the one that
came sometimes, not all thetime.
Maybe, maybe your family isperfect and this never happens
and we would love
Natalie (15:26):
to say bless you because that is a rarity.
Yeah.
I
Bryan (15:30):
would think so.
Yeah.
A rarity as in it, it happens alot.
It just, that wasn't ourexperience with your family in
particular.
No.
Right.
And so the family dynamics thatyou're going to experience in
every family is going to bedifferent.
There's going to be a brotherand sister, maybe the fight or a
mom and a daughter that aremaybe in an argument at the time
or just their stress.
There's tension.
(15:51):
Um, as the kids get like.
at every age, I would say fromlike bottom up, it's a different
type of dynamic.
Our dynamic now with our kids isso much fun because it's
conversation and laughing andjoking and, and that, but there
was a time where it just wasstressful because they're small
and they're into everything andthey're, and they
Natalie (16:09):
need like nap times and bedtimes and you can't stay late
and you feel bad and right.
I mean, on one hand, it wasreally convenient because it
meant that our stay was short.
Bryan (16:20):
We're like, Oh, we got to take
Natalie (16:21):
the kids home for a nap.
We talked about our sanity.
Yeah.
Uh, that was incredibly helpful.
And now it's, we're just in adifferent space and, and our
holiday seasons are peaceful.
Bryan (16:36):
Yeah.
And, and so with all of thatcomes, I mean, the normal busy
schedules, which is interestingbecause our, our schedule.
Um, slows down because we're,we're pastors.
And so at, at our church, allthe groups have already finished
except for one, um, everything'skind of chill.
We're moving on, but then all ofa sudden you're, you're
connecting with more peoplebecause it's close to Christmas
(16:58):
and they want to get a visit inbefore the new, the new year.
So you end up doing more andthen there's skating and then
there's family coming in beforeChristmas cause they can't be
here for Christmas.
So it's just a whole thing andit can be overwhelming,
exhausting and so you end upgetting tired.
And you get emotional and youget all of that is just tough.
Natalie (17:14):
And we like in both Brian's family and our immediate
family here, there's nothingwrong with taking like sort of
putting yourself in a timeoutand, and just a recharge.
And I know, um, our nephew needsa recharge.
Our own sons need recharges.
My husband needs a rechargewhere you just kind of are like,
(17:36):
okay, there's so much.
Happening happiness, buthappening that it can be just
overwhelming with just the level
Bryan (17:45):
of noise.
And I think that it, and havingthat good relationship with the
family that you're going to havethat with, like, cause with my
sister and my brother in law,Jeremy and Katie, they'll just
be like, Hey, do you mind if youjust come back, come in like an
hour or two later, we just needto have a morning where we eat
breakfast together and we just
Natalie (18:00):
chill.
And I love that because thatsets, it sets the tone.
And not only like, they are, um,Valuing their family time and,
and we are also at this endvaluing our family time and um,
allowing just some space for thekids to just play or whatever in
(18:22):
before the families gettogether.
Cause when we do, we have a lotof fun and it's, I say organized
chaos, organized
Bryan (18:30):
chaos.
There's 12 of us on one space.
Yeah.
It's pretty awesome.
Uh, I would, I would actually,I'm going to wrap up a busy
schedules.
with the lack of personal spaceand time sometimes and put them
together because it's the timeof year like this.
We, we are, we love our weekendsbecause we get to spend it with
the kids and then they havedrama and then we do church and
(18:52):
it's just this last week and mydad came down with my brother
and my nephews.
It was fantastic.
We had such a good time.
We had an absolute blast, but itwas like, like as soon as they
showed up, it was just awhirlwind weekend.
And so you're busy, busy, busy,busy.
And there's just not, well, atChristmas time, sometimes people
are staying for like a week or10 days and it's this
overwhelming.
And not only is your schedulebusy cause, and if you're coming
from a blended family, you mightbe hitting up multiple homes
(19:15):
when we were young, I was doingChristmas with my dad and then I
was doing Christmas with my mom.
And then when we would come herefor holidays, we were doing a
Christmas with us and my mom andthen going to your parents.
And so it's a lot of turkey andI didn't mind that so much in
the eating and the food,
Natalie (19:31):
but it can be just over like
Bryan (19:33):
too much.
It's overwhelming and that'swhere people hit their limit
sooner because it's intense andit's just all at one time,
Natalie (19:41):
which then can lead to some real challenges with your
mental health and where you areemotionally.
Right.
And the stress and the busynessand busyness doesn't have to be
that you're just go, go, go.
It could just be like, we'regetting in the car and we're
driving to the next location.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
And it can be, um,
Bryan (20:01):
not necessarily out and about.
You get to be at home, wrappinggifts, baking, just going,
going, going, kids have to gohere.
Natalie (20:07):
You know, and if you're.
If you're suffering or there'sbeen, you know, where there's
tension in your family andthings like that, that just adds
to the mental strain, right?
Bryan (20:18):
And it just, it ends up taking up so much of it.
So if you're, if, if you'resomeone who already, we're going
to get to one application that Ithink that we really need to
talk about that is, is the bigone, but if you're already
struggling with say depressionor anxiety.
Or you're already frustrated,loneliness, and you're hitting
this time of year and all thisis going to happen at one time
(20:40):
and your mental health is justabout to get bettered because
everyone's there, um, and take,take, take, take, and it's,
yeah, and it's a lot of take andnot a lot of give or a lot of
give and a lot of, and peopleare taking from you all the
time.
And like the one thing that, sothat's that like mental health
issues.
We understand that this time ofyear, the other one is, is that
there's a lot of people thathave had family.
(21:01):
Pass away right around Christmasand every year it just brings up
more, Oh, they're not here.
Yeah.
Natalie (21:06):
A tragedy of some sort.
Yeah.
And, and that opens a whole, um,another realm of either you're
isolating and secluding yourselfor sort of numbingly going
through all of the busynessbecause it keeps your mind off
of actually processing.
(21:27):
Whatever the tragedy might beand, and you know, they're the
first, like if you've lostsomeone the first Christmas, the
first birthday, the firstThanksgiving, all of those are
awful that first year, uh, to gothrough and, and sometimes it's
awful for multiple years.
Right.
And so just being aware.
It's okay to say no.
(21:49):
Yeah, that's true.
And to, to have the freedom tosay this is not, I just, I'm
operating at
Bryan (21:58):
20 percent right now.
And to even say to your familythat certain behavior is not
okay.
Yes.
Certain response, remarks, or,um, before we get into this, if
you notice in every one ofthese, these topics, things that
we've all experienced that youand I as a couple have
experienced, if you notice theone thing in every single one of
(22:18):
these things.
it, you have to have good,healthy boundaries on each one
of these.
100%.
And so it really, this is aboutwhat is it that the title that I
was just kind of reading is likejingle bells, jingle hell.
Yeah.
Natalie (22:33):
Right.
And that can be, um, I mean,that, that resonated with our
experience,
Bryan (22:38):
but it, it's all about.
Boundaries.
And you're, you're, if onething, there's a, there's this
odd, I don't, and it's hard toexplain.
It seems with family that moreoften than not, we're willing to
tolerate so much more abuse and,and abuse, abuse is probably a
(22:59):
strong word.
And in some cases it really isabuse.
I would say in some cases, evenin your family, the way they
talk to each other was, wasabuse.
The way that they tried to talkto us was probably abuse.
But in some cases, it's just howit's the normal.
So the exception where youwouldn't tolerate most of you,
most people that I know wouldn'ttolerate that from anyone else,
(23:23):
but in family, they're justwilling to take this beating and
this, uh, like you're willing totake the verbal, uh, assault on
your parenting or your husband'sor your, your wife, or how you
did this or how you cook thedinner you're willing to take
at, at, at not just Christmas,but just with your family in
general.
And I would say.
If this is you consider puttingup boundaries because that'll
(23:46):
definitely help your mentalhealth and emotional health and
spiritual health.
A hundred percent.
Natalie (23:50):
And it's very hard to do that when you are ingrained
to not speak up for yourself.
Right.
And so.
The greatest gift you can giveto yourself and give to your
children is no, is, is setting.
Well, yes.
No is now my favorite word andnot to be flippant with it, but
(24:11):
for my own taking control of mydecision making and not having
it made for me is what it boilsdown to.
And so being able to, uh, toassert yourself and, and say,
Hey, Um, you know, talk it overwith your family.
I mean like your kids and yourhusband or whatever ahead of
(24:33):
time going, all right, this ishow much energy I have to
contribute to this outing we'regoing to with my family.
I have two hours max so, and weliterally had code words.
It sounds so ridiculous 49ers,right?
Whatever it was.
I can't even remember at thispoint.
(24:53):
Um, but we had, we had a look.
We had whatever, and if it gotout of hand, it was wrapped up
and we were done.
Bryan (25:00):
So just what you said, the three, the three boundaries
that I think we should talkabout that not in the notes,
just something that I hadwritten down somewhere else.
And I just, I went back andfound it was this, it's one,
what you just said, there's atime management.
Yep.
Yes.
When you know that, Hey, we'regetting there at six and by
eight o'clock we have to be homebecause the kids need to,
whatever reason you gave, thatis the best thing that you can
(25:22):
do for yourself, especially whenyou're in already an environment
that you're already stressedout, stressed out about.
Maybe it's a mental thing foryou.
Maybe it's an emotional thing.
You're just what, but if yougive yourself a timeline and
say, Hey, mom or dad or uncle oraunt, I got to be out of here by
eight o'clock.
I've been here.
And we just got here at six.
Yeah.
I just need to be out of here byeight.
This is what's happening.
And you don't even have to givea reason.
Natalie (25:42):
Nope.
Absolutely.
Like, you don't need to justifywhy you are or aren't going to
Bryan (25:48):
stay.
Yep.
And, and this is, this is thehard thing about setting
boundaries is because it, it,there, when you're setting a
boundary, like a time managementboundary, it, it opens a door
for conflict and which whatpeople don't want to do.
Right.
But you're also saying by sayingthat and saying that.
I'm coming to your house.
I want to be gone.
(26:08):
I'm here at six o'clock.
I want to be gone by eight, notonly opening up the door for
conflict for you to be like,well, that's stupid.
I don't want you.
I wouldn't want you to stay hereuntil 10, but you're also saying
to them, Hey, well, they'relooking after themselves and
they're standing up forthemselves.
So it's not just, it's not justone thing while time management,
it's no, there's a few thingsthat happen when you self care.
Natalie (26:25):
And that's so important.
If you, if you find yourselfincredibly anxious over the
holiday season, self care issuper important.
Yeah.
Bryan (26:33):
And, and it's okay to protect yourself even from your
own family.
I know this might not be one ofthose that like, Oh, I can't
believe they said this.
Well, well, until you've livedit.
We've hit some toxic families inour toxic family time and a time
in our life and we understandthe importance of so one is time
management.
The next one is you actually canset the conversation topics.
Natalie (26:55):
And we were very strategic with that.
And so, I mean, with the kidsbeing there, it was more geared.
You know, there was less likelyin my family to be some kind of
funny business if my kids werepresent.
Right.
It's like, well, the kids, thelittles are here and so we need
(27:17):
to be like on our best behavior.
Yeah.
So take advantage of that.
Yep.
Bryan (27:21):
Absolutely.
Natalie (27:22):
You're panicked about it.
And we like colored and we didpuzzles and set up the kids with
like Christmas movies and stufflike that.
And really we set the pace andwe set the topics.
And if there was a topic thatthat came up or, um, that we
were not comfortable going to,cause we could just foresee
(27:43):
this.
being a spiraling into anargument.
We just redirect
Bryan (27:47):
it.
Right.
And we also there's there's timelike certain family members.
Everyone has that one uncle thatUm, doesn't understand, uh, read
the room and, or has a dad orhas a, uh, an auntie or a
brother that's just doesn't readthe room.
We'll talk about anything.
We'll actually find the thingthat is most uncomfortable for
(28:09):
you and want to talk about thatand push those boundaries.
And it's okay to say either youclap back when they speak up or
be like, Hey, we're not going totalk about that.
That's right now.
That's not something we can talkabout, especially in nowadays
when, um, Unless you are willingto have just a normal civil
discourse, like me and mybrother in law, we don't agree
(28:29):
all the time on things, but Ican have a great conversation
with him and he's so smart atstuff that I can, I'm actually
challenged by it and I hope Ichallenge him vice like vice
versa, but not everyone can dothat.
No.
Right.
And, and so you want to, to, andif you can't have that one
uncle, cause oftentimes you knowthe uncle I'm talking about,
that one uncle, that's just ajerk.
We'll push the boundaries.
We'll say things just to, tomake people angry.
(28:51):
We'll just say things so theycan get that response out.
The one that does it.
Every family gathering thatyou're at and the one that he
should be sitting in his car,not talking to anyone because
they're kind of rude, right?
And so you can control thetopics in your own house.
And when the boundaries arecrossed, you can say, Hey,
that's enough.
If this is going to be the thingyou can go somewhere else that
you're allowed to say thesethings.
Natalie (29:10):
Yes.
And you're allowed to like, loveyourself enough to, uh, you get
what you tolerate.
Yeah,
Bryan (29:16):
you get it.
That's right.
Henry cloud, what
Natalie (29:18):
you tolerate.
And so if there is, you know,some piping up of whatever for
you then to assert yourself andsay, you know what, um, We're
not discussing this.
This is not the time or theplace to have this conversation,
Bryan (29:33):
right?
And I think that, uh, like,because you, you may want to
avoid like politics or, um,Yeah.
Vaccines.
Oh yeah.
Mask or no mask, personalfinances.
Maybe they're giving you badadvice or you're not unasked,
unasked advice on how to parentyour kids or how she used to
just discipline them.
Your career choice.
You're still at that job.
(29:53):
Oh, I can't believe that or thelifestyle you're living.
Oh, you didn't, you don'texercise.
Oh, I can't believe you're likethat kind of thing, right?
Like you want to, you want toset the boundaries of what you
can and can't say before theyall show up at your house.
Exactly.
Natalie (30:05):
And one of the things, you know, back to like Uh,
people inserting their parentingideas who have no kids, um, of
just, of we've learned the artof like, thank you for your
recommendation.
And then just completelyignoring it or, and there's
nothing wrong with that.
Or, you know, then choosing,Hey, that actually was a really
(30:27):
good idea and I'm going to, I'mgoing to implement that.
But it goes
Bryan (30:29):
both ways.
But so often those parentingtips don't come because you're
having a conversation aboutparenting.
They come because they sawsomething that they think with
no children, but it may be adegree and like some kind of
child rearing thing.
Oh, I work with kids all day.
They think that they, becausethey saw it, they have some.
(30:51):
It's like, Oh, well, my waywould be better, but you're not
experiencing it.
So it's never because, Oh, we'rehaving a conversation.
What would you do?
It's because they saw somethingthey didn't like and want to
respond.
Right.
And the very last one I wouldsay is like in all of this, the
boundaries there is, there canbe space for privacy, which can
kind of time top kind of go inwith the, like the topic thing.
(31:13):
Like, you don't need to talkabout your private life.
Especially if the family's bigand there's like 15 or 20 people
and only eight of them youactually know really well But
you don't have to tell themevery what's happening with your
boyfriend or what's happeningwith your girlfriend What are
you doing?
Like what's happening?
You know,
Natalie (31:28):
I have a saying you're on a need to know basis and you
don't need to know and if youneed to know you'll know And so
there I think Um, keeping guard,especially if you have family
that use whatever you sayagainst you.
Bryan (31:41):
Yep.
Right.
And I would say, um, communicateyour boundaries clearly, uh,
early on and early on early asyou can.
So clearly with clearcommunication, express yourself
calmly.
Um, I just talked to someonetonight that's just running into
family, uh, at the day of thisrecording.
(32:02):
Um, I ran into, I'm talking tosomeone on the phone who's
struggling with this exactthing.
And I said, you just got to.
Not get into a word salad.
You don't get into an argument,you know, counselor
Natalie (32:11):
said, don't engage in a word
Bryan (32:13):
salad.
Just talk calmly and firmly whenthey gaslight, just hit him with
the facts and be kind and lovingtowards them as much as you want
to knock them out because theysaid something they shouldn't.
Um, but when you communicatethem, do those things, just do
it clearly, do it calmly.
You may be nervous, but I would,but I would say stand your
ground, fight for peace, fightfor the right thing.
And if they, if they love you,this is the, maybe this is the
(32:37):
wrong way to say it.
In the perfect world.
In the perfect world.
I think it's not just love, it'srespect.
If they respect you and theyconsider your feelings.
And they consider your needsbefore their needs, that if you
ask them for those things as, asuncomfortable as it is, when
(32:57):
someone says, Hey, can you notsay that to me?
Because it actually hurts myfeelings.
You're like, Oh.
If you're considering the otherperson and you're deferring to
them and what does the Bible sayto honor them to honor?
We say this in our church.
We're gonna honor up on her downon her all around That means
that if my brother in law comesto me says hey you talked Really
harshly to one of my kids.
(33:18):
I didn't really appreciate that.
I'm like, Oh man, I'm not goingto like dig my heels and be
like, you're wrong.
He deserved that.
And that may be true, but that'snot my kid.
No.
Right.
And so I would defer and honormy brother in law and my sister
say, this is your house.
Do you know what?
I'm you're right.
I shouldn't have done that.
I was frustrated.
And so I'm deferring to their,who they are and how they parent
(33:40):
and saying that, that you, Hey,I consider you before I consider
me.
Right.
And if we do that in thehousehold and the context of all
this stuff.
Setting boundaries is the bestthing you'll ever do at
Natalie (33:51):
Christmas time.
And it honestly sets a, uh, anatmosphere of peace, right?
Because right.
You're setting, you're settingthe tone for what, what this
night or what this week is goingto look like.
Bryan (34:05):
And I would say we do understand that.
Sometimes moms at Christmastimeor dads at Christmastime are a
lot, right?
Like just, they're just excitedand they love life.
And you know, parents as theyget older, they want things a
certain way and we kind of getsettled.
Or maybe that's when yoursiblings is particularly like,
(34:25):
we know that this is the seasonis a lot, but what you want to
do is you want to set thoseboundaries.
You need, you need to set those
Natalie (34:31):
boundaries to set those batteries.
I might.
Otherwise it's just going to berocking around the jingle tree,
right?
Bryan (34:38):
Jingle bell, jingle hell.
Exactly.
It's not our topic, but if youare not our title, but I think
maybe it should be, I think
Natalie (34:44):
it should.
Um, it doesn't have to be thatway.
And that's the encouragement.
Right.
You
Bryan (34:49):
have any last things you want to mention?
Just boundaries.
I think my notes, I would sayjust be encouraged that.
The, the, the way your Christmasis, is if you really struggle at
Christmas, it doesn't have to bethat way because I was the guy
that hated Christmas time forsuch a long time, because I was
(35:10):
between two parents, between twohouseholds, one was a, one was a
Christian household, one wasn't,and it was like a constant, um,
Spiritual battle, I would say,but also like a, a discipline
battle.
Like I would, I would go to oneand then have to be brainwashed
almost back to the way I waswhen I came back to the other,
but that didn't happen for long.
I think they finally found somecommon ground and made it work,
(35:32):
but it was
Natalie (35:33):
tough.
I would say community.
Yeah.
If you can find community inlike.
Whether it's a support group orwhether it's a church group or a
friend group at, at work,whatever, whatever the community
looks like for you, um, don't dolife alone.
Bryan (35:49):
Absolutely.
If.
You really enjoyed this podcastand you like this episode, we
love it.
If you share it, it means a lot.
When you let people know aboutAmplified Marriage, you can
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Again, if you ever want to chatwith us or you have a topic or a
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know at amplifiedmarriage.
(36:11):
gmail.
com or you can Facebook orInstagram.
And as you've heard us say, webelieve that your marriage can
be reset, refreshed, rechargedand restored.
Thank you for listening andMerry Christmas.
Talk to you soon.
Picture this.
It's Christmas, and you'reracing through the mall like
it's an Olympic sport, trying tofind the perfect gift that
screams thoughtful, but itwhispers, I totally forgot.
Back at home, your living roomlooks like it was hit by a
glitter bomb.
Meanwhile, your wallet isweeping softly, mourning its
once plump state.
And let's not forget the familygatherings.
(00:21):
They're like a game of emotionaldodgeball, where you're trying
to avoid that one relative'sawkward questions, but wait,
there's much more.
Amidst all this, you're expectedto cook a feast that would make
Gordon Ramsay weep, all thewhile keeping your festive
spirit brighter.
Then Rudolph's nose.
So grab your eggnog folks.
We're about to dive deep intothe Holly jolly chaos that is
(00:43):
Christmas.
Let's find out why decking thehalls can feel more like decking
your sanity.
Welcome to another episode ofamplified marriage.
(01:06):
I'm Brian.
I'm Natalie.
Whatever you're doing,potentially drinking eggnog or
sipping some nice spiced rum orenjoying some Christmas music,
whatever you're doing, we are soglad that you've joined us today
and we are excited to have agood chat with you.
Natalie (01:21):
That's right.
If you missed last episode, we,we've kind of started our
Christmas series and we weretalking about children and sort
of the financial stresses ofhaving a little money or no
money and what could you do,what we did, uh, with our
children when we were.
Uh, experiencing, uh, leaneryears,
Bryan (01:43):
leaner, leaner years, uh, as we were kind of just talking
about this because we're rightin the middle of Christmas,
we're probably experiencing alot of this.
Um, there's quite a few thingsaround Christmas that are
heightened, like the name of thepodcast amplified.
Things are amplified atChristmas and it's, it's an
(02:03):
interesting thing to, to talkabout because really, because
we're Christians, I evenpreached a message is that Jesus
is the reason for the season.
And for whatever reason, rightaround this time, there's even
the, some of the things we'regoing to talk about.
There's this odd expectation foreverything that the Christmas
(02:25):
gifts are going to be perfectthat the family dynamics like
are going to be like perfect andharmonious and there's going to
be unity in the family eventhough we fought all year and
then this one time a year wecome together at on the last
month of the year for maybe aweek at a time and everything's
just going to be hunky dory justlike the Hallmark movies like we
fought and argued and all thestuff but all Christmas comes
and the Christmas spirit changeseverything.
(02:46):
Well, it doesn't, it actuallytakes those already heightened
emotions, already amplifiedfeelings and all that's going on
and just makes it worse.
Like sometimes I would say theseason.
Brings it around
Natalie (03:02):
like the being Christmas invites that kind of
Bryan (03:08):
sometimes, but in, in our experience, like there, there's
not really a whole reason as towhy, like, well, I think
Natalie (03:17):
you have to, I mean, we're going to dive into like
our family dynamics externallyfrom our just immediate, because
that's what we're talking abouttoday, but, um, there's a lot of
variables and.
Um, not every, you know, I havespent many Christmases on
(03:39):
eggshells because you justdidn't know the kind of state of
mind that the remainder of yourfamily was in.
Right.
And I mean, we were away fromfamily for.
years.
Yeah.
And I think in, in that 12years, we're only, we only
traveled at Christmastime to seethem one time.
Bryan (03:58):
No, it was twice.
We, we came once and my dadcouldn't make it down.
So we ended up flying in.
And then one time we drove justbefore Christmas, we were there
twice.
Natalie (04:08):
So twice in 12 years, not a lot.
No.
And so.
So at the time, like both setsof families lived where we live.
And so it was juggling and itwas incredibly
Bryan (04:18):
stressful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I think we discussedthis as we came down, like now
we spend every Christmas withour, with my brother in law and
my sister and their four kids.
And it's amazing.
And my mom and my grandma thatare here, but it took the first
year or two for us to kind ofget.
past the fact that, Hey, we'renot having a Christmas just on
our own.
We're actually now obligated.
(04:39):
And this is, we love being withour family.
Hear me when I say this, we havea really good relationship with
them, really good relationshipwith them.
We love being with them, butthere's an obligation that comes
at Christmas time.
And we had to get.
Past the fact there's anobligation for us to be with
them at Christmas, right?
because we were so used to doingChristmas just on our own and
then going to see our friends orOur family that happened to be
(05:00):
in the town that we were inright?
Natalie (05:02):
Could I word it more in seven obligation?
We needed to be intentional.
Bryan (05:06):
Yeah, that's good
Natalie (05:08):
obligation obligation kind of has a negative Um, for
me anyways, it kind of has anegative meaning
Bryan (05:16):
considering your family.
I can see why that obligationwould be
Natalie (05:18):
negative with Brian's family.
It's not an, uh, an obligatorything.
It's more of, okay, it's not,it's not just us and us coming
and going as we please doingwhat we want.
Although we can still do what wewant.
We're intentional about spendingtime with our family because
it's a value to us.
Bryan (05:35):
Absolutely.
And so there's, there, we justwant to go through a few things,
um, that people are going to,that you're going to struggle
with.
And we'll talk a little bit ofour own families as we get
through this, but the very firstone we've mentioned it a couple
of times is there's highexpectations.
It's interesting that the, Ithink that at this time of year,
there's probably moreexpectation, high expectations
(05:55):
in any other holiday.
I would agree.
Easter, Thanksgiving, uh,because all together.
Natalie (06:03):
For us, we want to give good gifts to our kids, and I've
been the recipient in my owngrowing up years of, of just the
opposite of not great gifts.
And so I'm really intentionalabout paying attention
throughout the year.
What do my children like?
What are they into?
Yeah.
What speaks to their heart sothat when I'm gift giving, um,
(06:27):
it makes sense to them.
It's not just stuff that I likeand I hope it lands no, but like
Bryan (06:34):
I bought them these shoes because I really liked them on
them and they're like, well, Idon't want those shoes because
Natalie (06:39):
that's not, that's not what I asked for.
And yes, it's not about thegifts, although there, there is
like, if I'm.
Giving gifts to my kids.
I want them to be good gifts.
Yeah.
Bryan (06:48):
Oh, yeah, and but no matter what there's a high
expectation And
Natalie (06:52):
I think that oh, yes, cuz I struggle with Did I do
enough?
What if they don't like it eventhough they asked for it?
But what if it, what if theyjust said they wanted it, but
didn't really want it.
And so I do this whole
Bryan (07:02):
song and dance that, that I, I understand, but I don't
fully, I mean, it's not fully infor me to be like, that's just
not part of like, I get it, butI'm not like sold on that.
Like the kids have always lovedeverything we've always gotten.
They've never not.
Natalie (07:19):
And I think, well, and that's just, you know, wounds
from my own.
Yeah.
Growing up years that, I mean, Irealized I, I project in that
moment.
So how,
Bryan (07:32):
how, how, what do you mean by that?
Like what, what kind of woundsare you, have gotten you to that
place where, when we have ourown kids?
Cause I would say that youdon't, you may project the
anxiety of the gift giving, butyou don't, you don't produce the
consequences of the gift giving.
Natalie (07:50):
Okay.
I see what you mean.
Yes.
Okay.
So then I project the anxietyand it stresses me out.
And it's with anybody.
Bryan (07:56):
Yeah, it is with anyone.
It's not just a Christmas.
It doesn't
Natalie (07:59):
matter.
See,
Bryan (08:01):
here's, here's, here's the thing about Christmas
though, is if you take a bigdinner, um, gift giving special
holidays, extra gifts, familycoming in all of those things on
their own, don't really.
are can be anxiety inducing, butthey're not, they're not big on
their own.
They're not huge.
You take all five or six ofthese things and slam them into
one holiday.
(08:21):
And then you got anxious aboutall those things.
And so when the gifts comearound, you're like, man, I hope
I did the right thing.
Natalie (08:26):
Exactly.
And so then I am.
Um, it's just incrediblyuncomfortable for me whenever
someone's opening a gift.
I bought them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And to this day, I stillstruggle in that area of just,
you know, because I just, maybethat'll be a different podcast
Bryan (08:50):
where I'm going.
I know.
And I think that the.
When the expectations aren't metin, as in anything in life, but
in the amplified state ofChristmas, there's this, when
they're not met, you just, youfeel like you're disappointed or
you're going to be stressed out.
I can tell you safely for 24years, we've been together.
I've never had a gift from youthat I've not liked or that
(09:11):
didn't, that didn't hit home.
That wasn't the right one.
And that, but that's alsobecause of who we are.
And how we try to live our lifewith contentment and integrity
and honor, and you're going tofind the right things for me and
you're thoughtful and you'regoing to think, but that takes
time.
Natalie (09:25):
Yes.
And that takes reassurance.
Right.
Right.
And so you've never given me areason to, for me to doubt even
when I was to you biggest jerk.
Yeah.
And, and even the kids, likethey've never given me a reason
to feel this way.
This is just, and I think if I'mdoing.
(09:47):
Uh, self reflection, I feel likeI've gotten a lot better as time
has gone on where, where I'mconfident.
Bryan (09:56):
Yeah.
I would, I would say thatyou're, you're at your most
confident right now when yougive the gifts cause you know,
that's what they want.
But
Natalie (10:02):
there was a time where, um, It was, it caused incredible
anxiety to even think about agift and then you're stressing
about it all night long.
And then other family areopening their gifts and they're
like, Oh my gosh, it's amazing.
And then there have been timeswhere it has come to my gift and
(10:23):
it has just not, and
Bryan (10:25):
that's, that's part of the, the projection from what's
happened with your family,right?
Natalie (10:33):
That's part, I guess the projecting is, is stems from
the reality of
Bryan (10:37):
what has happened and the wounds and the trauma of those
moments.
I've been there in the room whenthat's happened and I have
spoken up and said somethingwhile you were in tears because
of the gift that was thoughtfulthat was actually spoken by said
person was what they wanted, butmade you feel like garbage in
that moment.
And then even your dad wasupset.
(10:57):
He's like, how can you possiblysay that?
I remember that.
So it's those moments that youremember in your history that
now, but you've never, you'venever projected that you've
never put the consequence ofthat on the kids, like made them
feel bad or disappointed
Natalie (11:13):
or, yeah, no, this is like, this is just.
When it, I have to be reallycautious and I have to be really
mindful of my own state of mind.
Because family dynamics, um, inmy case really sucked.
Yeah.
Bryan (11:28):
And Christmas time was,
Natalie (11:30):
was, and, and there was, you know, I remember when
we first moved here back from,uh, up north and, uh, my dad had
just passed away and theexcitement and like my, my
birthday is Christmas.
And so there's a level ofexcitement.
Um, that I have, and I love mybirthday and I love Christmas.
(11:53):
And so it had been hyped up tobe this like big, huge
celebratory, you know, we playcharades and we play all these
games and we dress up and I, Iwas so excited for our first
Christmas back around family.
To have this whole entire, um,like party I had made it to be
(12:14):
an experience and what everyonearound me had, had, um,
reiterated that this is in factwhat we do.
And so, Um, it was the polaropposite of that.
We were the only ones dressedup.
Everyone else was in flannelsand no one sort of gave us the
memo that no one was dressed up.
A family was drinking and familywas smoking and fighting,
Bryan (12:36):
like fighting, viciously arguing
Natalie (12:38):
and fighting.
And I, and our kids were littleat this time.
And I just looked at Brian andI'm like, never again will I
ever come to this place with myfamily.
Oh, we never did.
And
Bryan (12:51):
we never, we always did the day or two after, but never
Natalie (12:54):
did again.
Right.
And it's, it was theseridiculous things of like, you
know, Oh, can you guys bringthis?
And then, and then we bringthat.
They're like, well, we alreadyhave that sort of nonsense.
The whole thing was justnonsense and it
Bryan (13:07):
was, yeah.
And they didn't see it.
Cause we showed up at what threein the afternoon and already
half of them had been drinkingsince like nine and 10 and they
were already arguing and
Natalie (13:17):
fighting.
We left early.
I was so
Bryan (13:19):
mad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was a very short day.
So I mean the high expectationsfor everything and people handle
it in their own way.
And we talked about this nextone last week, just on the
financial stretches, stresses ofChristmas.
If you listened to the last oneswe did talk about.
Being able to bless your familyand your kids with little.
And how do you do that and howdo you approach that and the
attitude and perspective?
Natalie (13:41):
Um, you know what?
If it was one, let's say youcan't, I just want to say this
before we move on to the next,um, section, but if it's one.
Handmade gift.
And that's all that you coulddo.
That's enough.
Yeah.
Right.
And, and I'm, I'm speaking tomyself because I get caught up
(14:02):
too in the hustle bustle oflike, well, you know, trying to
match.
It's not keeping up with theJoneses because we're not those
people, but there, there is anelement of like, well, you know,
one gift doesn't seem enough.
Right.
And then like, where does itstop?
Yeah.
I know.
And, and to be okay and contentwith one gift, most definitely.
Can be enough.
Bryan (14:22):
Yeah.
And so the financial stress,we've already talked quite a bit
about that.
Finally, family dynamics.
This is the next one.
And this is a hard one.
Well, and we're no matter whatwe're doing, because Christmas
oftentimes is about family,family dynamics are going to be
wrapped up in all that we do inthe high expectations in the
financial stresses.
Um, yeah.
Like I said,
Natalie (14:42):
even at the alcohol, like in our family, you add
alcohol to the mix and that justopens all kinds of wounds that
you thought were dealt with.
Bryan (14:48):
Right.
Because they're like, youremember that time?
Right.
And then they say things andthey do things.
And cause we're, we're not thosekinds of drinkers.
Um, and so for us, it was, itwas actually sit back and watch
other people make fools ofthemselves.
That was quite amusing for us,but it's still at some point
it's just, okay, it's a littlebit overboard, but this is what
happens at Christmas time isthere's really high
expectations, expectations.
(15:11):
Then they come and instead of itbeing the unifying push that
they hope it was, it ends upjust being a fight.
And then they walk away evenmore angry than the one that
came sometimes, not all thetime.
Maybe, maybe your family isperfect and this never happens
and we would love
Natalie (15:26):
to say bless you because that is a rarity.
Yeah.
I
Bryan (15:30):
would think so.
Yeah.
A rarity as in it, it happens alot.
It just, that wasn't ourexperience with your family in
particular.
No.
Right.
And so the family dynamics thatyou're going to experience in
every family is going to bedifferent.
There's going to be a brotherand sister, maybe the fight or a
mom and a daughter that aremaybe in an argument at the time
or just their stress.
There's tension.
(15:51):
Um, as the kids get like.
at every age, I would say fromlike bottom up, it's a different
type of dynamic.
Our dynamic now with our kids isso much fun because it's
conversation and laughing andjoking and, and that, but there
was a time where it just wasstressful because they're small
and they're into everything andthey're, and they
Natalie (16:09):
need like nap times and bedtimes and you can't stay late
and you feel bad and right.
I mean, on one hand, it wasreally convenient because it
meant that our stay was short.
Bryan (16:20):
We're like, Oh, we got to take
Natalie (16:21):
the kids home for a nap.
We talked about our sanity.
Yeah.
Uh, that was incredibly helpful.
And now it's, we're just in adifferent space and, and our
holiday seasons are peaceful.
Bryan (16:36):
Yeah.
And, and so with all of thatcomes, I mean, the normal busy
schedules, which is interestingbecause our, our schedule.
Um, slows down because we're,we're pastors.
And so at, at our church, allthe groups have already finished
except for one, um, everything'skind of chill.
We're moving on, but then all ofa sudden you're, you're
connecting with more peoplebecause it's close to Christmas
(16:58):
and they want to get a visit inbefore the new, the new year.
So you end up doing more andthen there's skating and then
there's family coming in beforeChristmas cause they can't be
here for Christmas.
So it's just a whole thing andit can be overwhelming,
exhausting and so you end upgetting tired.
And you get emotional and youget all of that is just tough.
Natalie (17:14):
And we like in both Brian's family and our immediate
family here, there's nothingwrong with taking like sort of
putting yourself in a timeoutand, and just a recharge.
And I know, um, our nephew needsa recharge.
Our own sons need recharges.
My husband needs a rechargewhere you just kind of are like,
(17:36):
okay, there's so much.
Happening happiness, buthappening that it can be just
overwhelming with just the level
Bryan (17:45):
of noise.
And I think that it, and havingthat good relationship with the
family that you're going to havethat with, like, cause with my
sister and my brother in law,Jeremy and Katie, they'll just
be like, Hey, do you mind if youjust come back, come in like an
hour or two later, we just needto have a morning where we eat
breakfast together and we just
Natalie (18:00):
chill.
And I love that because thatsets, it sets the tone.
And not only like, they are, um,Valuing their family time and,
and we are also at this endvaluing our family time and um,
allowing just some space for thekids to just play or whatever in
(18:22):
before the families gettogether.
Cause when we do, we have a lotof fun and it's, I say organized
chaos, organized
Bryan (18:30):
chaos.
There's 12 of us on one space.
Yeah.
It's pretty awesome.
Uh, I would, I would actually,I'm going to wrap up a busy
schedules.
with the lack of personal spaceand time sometimes and put them
together because it's the timeof year like this.
We, we are, we love our weekendsbecause we get to spend it with
the kids and then they havedrama and then we do church and
(18:52):
it's just this last week and mydad came down with my brother
and my nephews.
It was fantastic.
We had such a good time.
We had an absolute blast, but itwas like, like as soon as they
showed up, it was just awhirlwind weekend.
And so you're busy, busy, busy,busy.
And there's just not, well, atChristmas time, sometimes people
are staying for like a week or10 days and it's this
overwhelming.
And not only is your schedulebusy cause, and if you're coming
from a blended family, you mightbe hitting up multiple homes
(19:15):
when we were young, I was doingChristmas with my dad and then I
was doing Christmas with my mom.
And then when we would come herefor holidays, we were doing a
Christmas with us and my mom andthen going to your parents.
And so it's a lot of turkey andI didn't mind that so much in
the eating and the food,
Natalie (19:31):
but it can be just over like
Bryan (19:33):
too much.
It's overwhelming and that'swhere people hit their limit
sooner because it's intense andit's just all at one time,
Natalie (19:41):
which then can lead to some real challenges with your
mental health and where you areemotionally.
Right.
And the stress and the busynessand busyness doesn't have to be
that you're just go, go, go.
It could just be like, we'regetting in the car and we're
driving to the next location.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
And it can be, um,
Bryan (20:01):
not necessarily out and about.
You get to be at home, wrappinggifts, baking, just going,
going, going, kids have to gohere.
Natalie (20:07):
You know, and if you're.
If you're suffering or there'sbeen, you know, where there's
tension in your family andthings like that, that just adds
to the mental strain, right?
Bryan (20:18):
And it just, it ends up taking up so much of it.
So if you're, if, if you'resomeone who already, we're going
to get to one application that Ithink that we really need to
talk about that is, is the bigone, but if you're already
struggling with say depressionor anxiety.
Or you're already frustrated,loneliness, and you're hitting
this time of year and all thisis going to happen at one time
(20:40):
and your mental health is justabout to get bettered because
everyone's there, um, and take,take, take, take, and it's,
yeah, and it's a lot of take andnot a lot of give or a lot of
give and a lot of, and peopleare taking from you all the
time.
And like the one thing that, sothat's that like mental health
issues.
We understand that this time ofyear, the other one is, is that
there's a lot of people thathave had family.
(21:01):
Pass away right around Christmasand every year it just brings up
more, Oh, they're not here.
Yeah.
Natalie (21:06):
A tragedy of some sort.
Yeah.
And, and that opens a whole, um,another realm of either you're
isolating and secluding yourselfor sort of numbingly going
through all of the busynessbecause it keeps your mind off
of actually processing.
(21:27):
Whatever the tragedy might beand, and you know, they're the
first, like if you've lostsomeone the first Christmas, the
first birthday, the firstThanksgiving, all of those are
awful that first year, uh, to gothrough and, and sometimes it's
awful for multiple years.
Right.
And so just being aware.
It's okay to say no.
(21:49):
Yeah, that's true.
And to, to have the freedom tosay this is not, I just, I'm
operating at
Bryan (21:58):
20 percent right now.
And to even say to your familythat certain behavior is not
okay.
Yes.
Certain response, remarks, or,um, before we get into this, if
you notice in every one ofthese, these topics, things that
we've all experienced that youand I as a couple have
experienced, if you notice theone thing in every single one of
(22:18):
these things.
it, you have to have good,healthy boundaries on each one
of these.
100%.
And so it really, this is aboutwhat is it that the title that I
was just kind of reading is likejingle bells, jingle hell.
Yeah.
Natalie (22:33):
Right.
And that can be, um, I mean,that, that resonated with our
experience,
Bryan (22:38):
but it, it's all about.
Boundaries.
And you're, you're, if onething, there's a, there's this
odd, I don't, and it's hard toexplain.
It seems with family that moreoften than not, we're willing to
tolerate so much more abuse and,and abuse, abuse is probably a
(22:59):
strong word.
And in some cases it really isabuse.
I would say in some cases, evenin your family, the way they
talk to each other was, wasabuse.
The way that they tried to talkto us was probably abuse.
But in some cases, it's just howit's the normal.
So the exception where youwouldn't tolerate most of you,
most people that I know wouldn'ttolerate that from anyone else,
(23:23):
but in family, they're justwilling to take this beating and
this, uh, like you're willing totake the verbal, uh, assault on
your parenting or your husband'sor your, your wife, or how you
did this or how you cook thedinner you're willing to take
at, at, at not just Christmas,but just with your family in
general.
And I would say.
If this is you consider puttingup boundaries because that'll
(23:46):
definitely help your mentalhealth and emotional health and
spiritual health.
A hundred percent.
Natalie (23:50):
And it's very hard to do that when you are ingrained
to not speak up for yourself.
Right.
And so.
The greatest gift you can giveto yourself and give to your
children is no, is, is setting.
Well, yes.
No is now my favorite word andnot to be flippant with it, but
(24:11):
for my own taking control of mydecision making and not having
it made for me is what it boilsdown to.
And so being able to, uh, toassert yourself and, and say,
Hey, Um, you know, talk it overwith your family.
I mean like your kids and yourhusband or whatever ahead of
(24:33):
time going, all right, this ishow much energy I have to
contribute to this outing we'regoing to with my family.
I have two hours max so, and weliterally had code words.
It sounds so ridiculous 49ers,right?
Whatever it was.
I can't even remember at thispoint.
(24:53):
Um, but we had, we had a look.
We had whatever, and if it gotout of hand, it was wrapped up
and we were done.
Bryan (25:00):
So just what you said, the three, the three boundaries
that I think we should talkabout that not in the notes,
just something that I hadwritten down somewhere else.
And I just, I went back andfound it was this, it's one,
what you just said, there's atime management.
Yep.
Yes.
When you know that, Hey, we'regetting there at six and by
eight o'clock we have to be homebecause the kids need to,
whatever reason you gave, thatis the best thing that you can
(25:22):
do for yourself, especially whenyou're in already an environment
that you're already stressedout, stressed out about.
Maybe it's a mental thing foryou.
Maybe it's an emotional thing.
You're just what, but if yougive yourself a timeline and
say, Hey, mom or dad or uncle oraunt, I got to be out of here by
eight o'clock.
I've been here.
And we just got here at six.
Yeah.
I just need to be out of here byeight.
This is what's happening.
And you don't even have to givea reason.
Natalie (25:42):
Nope.
Absolutely.
Like, you don't need to justifywhy you are or aren't going to
Bryan (25:48):
stay.
Yep.
And, and this is, this is thehard thing about setting
boundaries is because it, it,there, when you're setting a
boundary, like a time managementboundary, it, it opens a door
for conflict and which whatpeople don't want to do.
Right.
But you're also saying by sayingthat and saying that.
I'm coming to your house.
I want to be gone.
(26:08):
I'm here at six o'clock.
I want to be gone by eight, notonly opening up the door for
conflict for you to be like,well, that's stupid.
I don't want you.
I wouldn't want you to stay hereuntil 10, but you're also saying
to them, Hey, well, they'relooking after themselves and
they're standing up forthemselves.
So it's not just, it's not justone thing while time management,
it's no, there's a few thingsthat happen when you self care.
Natalie (26:25):
And that's so important.
If you, if you find yourselfincredibly anxious over the
holiday season, self care issuper important.
Yeah.
Bryan (26:33):
And, and it's okay to protect yourself even from your
own family.
I know this might not be one ofthose that like, Oh, I can't
believe they said this.
Well, well, until you've livedit.
We've hit some toxic families inour toxic family time and a time
in our life and we understandthe importance of so one is time
management.
The next one is you actually canset the conversation topics.
Natalie (26:55):
And we were very strategic with that.
And so, I mean, with the kidsbeing there, it was more geared.
You know, there was less likelyin my family to be some kind of
funny business if my kids werepresent.
Right.
It's like, well, the kids, thelittles are here and so we need
(27:17):
to be like on our best behavior.
Yeah.
So take advantage of that.
Yep.
Bryan (27:21):
Absolutely.
Natalie (27:22):
You're panicked about it.
And we like colored and we didpuzzles and set up the kids with
like Christmas movies and stufflike that.
And really we set the pace andwe set the topics.
And if there was a topic thatthat came up or, um, that we
were not comfortable going to,cause we could just foresee
(27:43):
this.
being a spiraling into anargument.
We just redirect
Bryan (27:47):
it.
Right.
And we also there's there's timelike certain family members.
Everyone has that one uncle thatUm, doesn't understand, uh, read
the room and, or has a dad orhas a, uh, an auntie or a
brother that's just doesn't readthe room.
We'll talk about anything.
We'll actually find the thingthat is most uncomfortable for
(28:09):
you and want to talk about thatand push those boundaries.
And it's okay to say either youclap back when they speak up or
be like, Hey, we're not going totalk about that.
That's right now.
That's not something we can talkabout, especially in nowadays
when, um, Unless you are willingto have just a normal civil
discourse, like me and mybrother in law, we don't agree
(28:29):
all the time on things, but Ican have a great conversation
with him and he's so smart atstuff that I can, I'm actually
challenged by it and I hope Ichallenge him vice like vice
versa, but not everyone can dothat.
No.
Right.
And, and so you want to, to, andif you can't have that one
uncle, cause oftentimes you knowthe uncle I'm talking about,
that one uncle, that's just ajerk.
We'll push the boundaries.
We'll say things just to, tomake people angry.
(28:51):
We'll just say things so theycan get that response out.
The one that does it.
Every family gathering thatyou're at and the one that he
should be sitting in his car,not talking to anyone because
they're kind of rude, right?
And so you can control thetopics in your own house.
And when the boundaries arecrossed, you can say, Hey,
that's enough.
If this is going to be the thingyou can go somewhere else that
you're allowed to say thesethings.
Natalie (29:10):
Yes.
And you're allowed to like, loveyourself enough to, uh, you get
what you tolerate.
Yeah,
Bryan (29:16):
you get it.
That's right.
Henry cloud, what
Natalie (29:18):
you tolerate.
And so if there is, you know,some piping up of whatever for
you then to assert yourself andsay, you know what, um, We're
not discussing this.
This is not the time or theplace to have this conversation,
Bryan (29:33):
right?
And I think that, uh, like,because you, you may want to
avoid like politics or, um,Yeah.
Vaccines.
Oh yeah.
Mask or no mask, personalfinances.
Maybe they're giving you badadvice or you're not unasked,
unasked advice on how to parentyour kids or how she used to
just discipline them.
Your career choice.
You're still at that job.
(29:53):
Oh, I can't believe that or thelifestyle you're living.
Oh, you didn't, you don'texercise.
Oh, I can't believe you're likethat kind of thing, right?
Like you want to, you want toset the boundaries of what you
can and can't say before theyall show up at your house.
Exactly.
Natalie (30:05):
And one of the things, you know, back to like Uh,
people inserting their parentingideas who have no kids, um, of
just, of we've learned the artof like, thank you for your
recommendation.
And then just completelyignoring it or, and there's
nothing wrong with that.
Or, you know, then choosing,Hey, that actually was a really
(30:27):
good idea and I'm going to, I'mgoing to implement that.
But it goes
Bryan (30:29):
both ways.
But so often those parentingtips don't come because you're
having a conversation aboutparenting.
They come because they sawsomething that they think with
no children, but it may be adegree and like some kind of
child rearing thing.
Oh, I work with kids all day.
They think that they, becausethey saw it, they have some.
(30:51):
It's like, Oh, well, my waywould be better, but you're not
experiencing it.
So it's never because, Oh, we'rehaving a conversation.
What would you do?
It's because they saw somethingthey didn't like and want to
respond.
Right.
And the very last one I wouldsay is like in all of this, the
boundaries there is, there canbe space for privacy, which can
kind of time top kind of go inwith the, like the topic thing.
(31:13):
Like, you don't need to talkabout your private life.
Especially if the family's bigand there's like 15 or 20 people
and only eight of them youactually know really well But
you don't have to tell themevery what's happening with your
boyfriend or what's happeningwith your girlfriend What are
you doing?
Like what's happening?
You know,
Natalie (31:28):
I have a saying you're on a need to know basis and you
don't need to know and if youneed to know you'll know And so
there I think Um, keeping guard,especially if you have family
that use whatever you sayagainst you.
Bryan (31:41):
Yep.
Right.
And I would say, um, communicateyour boundaries clearly, uh,
early on and early on early asyou can.
So clearly with clearcommunication, express yourself
calmly.
Um, I just talked to someonetonight that's just running into
family, uh, at the day of thisrecording.
(32:02):
Um, I ran into, I'm talking tosomeone on the phone who's
struggling with this exactthing.
And I said, you just got to.
Not get into a word salad.
You don't get into an argument,you know, counselor
Natalie (32:11):
said, don't engage in a word
Bryan (32:13):
salad.
Just talk calmly and firmly whenthey gaslight, just hit him with
the facts and be kind and lovingtowards them as much as you want
to knock them out because theysaid something they shouldn't.
Um, but when you communicatethem, do those things, just do
it clearly, do it calmly.
You may be nervous, but I would,but I would say stand your
ground, fight for peace, fightfor the right thing.
And if they, if they love you,this is the, maybe this is the
(32:37):
wrong way to say it.
In the perfect world.
In the perfect world.
I think it's not just love, it'srespect.
If they respect you and theyconsider your feelings.
And they consider your needsbefore their needs, that if you
ask them for those things as, asuncomfortable as it is, when
(32:57):
someone says, Hey, can you notsay that to me?
Because it actually hurts myfeelings.
You're like, Oh.
If you're considering the otherperson and you're deferring to
them and what does the Bible sayto honor them to honor?
We say this in our church.
We're gonna honor up on her downon her all around That means
that if my brother in law comesto me says hey you talked Really
harshly to one of my kids.
(33:18):
I didn't really appreciate that.
I'm like, Oh man, I'm not goingto like dig my heels and be
like, you're wrong.
He deserved that.
And that may be true, but that'snot my kid.
No.
Right.
And so I would defer and honormy brother in law and my sister
say, this is your house.
Do you know what?
I'm you're right.
I shouldn't have done that.
I was frustrated.
And so I'm deferring to their,who they are and how they parent
(33:40):
and saying that, that you, Hey,I consider you before I consider
me.
Right.
And if we do that in thehousehold and the context of all
this stuff.
Setting boundaries is the bestthing you'll ever do at
Natalie (33:51):
Christmas time.
And it honestly sets a, uh, anatmosphere of peace, right?
Because right.
You're setting, you're settingthe tone for what, what this
night or what this week is goingto look like.
Bryan (34:05):
And I would say we do understand that.
Sometimes moms at Christmastimeor dads at Christmastime are a
lot, right?
Like just, they're just excitedand they love life.
And you know, parents as theyget older, they want things a
certain way and we kind of getsettled.
Or maybe that's when yoursiblings is particularly like,
(34:25):
we know that this is the seasonis a lot, but what you want to
do is you want to set thoseboundaries.
You need, you need to set those
Natalie (34:31):
boundaries to set those batteries.
I might.
Otherwise it's just going to berocking around the jingle tree,
right?
Bryan (34:38):
Jingle bell, jingle hell.
Exactly.
It's not our topic, but if youare not our title, but I think
maybe it should be, I think
Natalie (34:44):
it should.
Um, it doesn't have to be thatway.
And that's the encouragement.
Right.
You
Bryan (34:49):
have any last things you want to mention?
Just boundaries.
I think my notes, I would sayjust be encouraged that.
The, the, the way your Christmasis, is if you really struggle at
Christmas, it doesn't have to bethat way because I was the guy
that hated Christmas time forsuch a long time, because I was
(35:10):
between two parents, between twohouseholds, one was a, one was a
Christian household, one wasn't,and it was like a constant, um,
Spiritual battle, I would say,but also like a, a discipline
battle.
Like I would, I would go to oneand then have to be brainwashed
almost back to the way I waswhen I came back to the other,
but that didn't happen for long.
I think they finally found somecommon ground and made it work,
(35:32):
but it was
Natalie (35:33):
tough.
I would say community.
Yeah.
If you can find community inlike.
Whether it's a support group orwhether it's a church group or a
friend group at, at work,whatever, whatever the community
looks like for you, um, don't dolife alone.
Bryan (35:49):
Absolutely.
If.
You really enjoyed this podcastand you like this episode, we
love it.
If you share it, it means a lot.
When you let people know aboutAmplified Marriage, you can
follow us on Instagram and onFacebook.
Again, if you ever want to chatwith us or you have a topic or a
question or anything you wouldlike to discuss, please let us
know at amplifiedmarriage.
(36:11):
gmail.
com or you can Facebook orInstagram.
And as you've heard us say, webelieve that your marriage can
be reset, refreshed, rechargedand restored.
Thank you for listening andMerry Christmas.
Talk to you soon.
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