September 7, 2025 • 37 mins
Adam Chronister took his time on his path to entrepreneurship. Struggling in school and unsure of his future, he took the long road—gaining experience, building a side hustle, and creating financial runway before finally making the leap. In this episode, Adam shares how that deliberate approach shaped the ethos of Enleaf, where focusing on the business, not just the work, became the foundation for growth and fulfillment.
Key Takeaways
- Why struggling in school gave Adam a different perspective on learning, problem-solving, and building a business
- The importance of creating financial runway before taking the full leap into entrepreneurship
- How being intentional about “working on the business” shaped Enleaf’s direction and growth
- The role of autonomy and trust in building a culture where people love to work
- Why letting go of control is essential for long-term agency success
Details for an agency planning workshop event November 10th and 11th 2025.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Russel (00:01):
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where owners and
experts share the real journey,the early struggles, the
breakthrough moments, andeverything in between.
I'm your host Russel Dubree,former eight figure agency owner
turned business coach, sold myagency and now helps agency
leaders create their idealbusiness.
Every agency has a story, andthis is your front row seat.
(00:23):
This is an agency story.
Welcome to the show todayeveryone.
I have Adam Chronister withEnleaf with us here today.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday, Adam.
Adam (00:39):
Yeah, Happy to be here.
Russel (00:41):
Happy to have you.
Right out of the gate, tell uswhat Enleaf does and who do you
do it for?
Adam (00:46):
Enleaf is what I like to call a data-driven search
marketing agency.
What that means is, uh, we helpbusinesses all the way from
website design and development,uh, onto the, the digital
marketing presence they have in,you know, various search
engines.
Google, Bing, Yahoo and nowgetting more and more into large
language models, right?
Anywhere you go to query abusiness, uh, that's where we
(01:08):
like to have our clients befound.
Russel (01:10):
I love that.
Sounds like a well practiced,uh, elevator pitch.
I imagine that took some time toget to, which speaks to your
expertise within your field.
We're gonna find out all aboutthat, over the course of the
show.
But before we learn all ofthings agency, we wanna learn
about young Adam.
Tell us where he came up in theworld and how it get, get us
closer to where we are today.
Adam (01:30):
How far back do you want to go, exactly?
Russel (01:32):
Birth.
What was your birth?
No.
I don't know.
Anything that you think defined,uh, was a defining moment for
your eventual trajectory.
How about that?
Adam (01:39):
That sounds fun and interesting.
There are some aspects that Idon't always get into, but, uh,
for you, I'll, I'll lift up theKomodo, as they say.
I'll go back to all the way, Iguess to high school.
In school days, like be, beingquite transparent and open like,
um, me and school, at least inthe early days.
Didn't really, really get alongright.
I think for a lot of people,it's actually kind of
surprising, um, because now youknow, I'm running a, a
(02:02):
successful agency in thesoftware development web design,
digital marketing realm, which Ithink a lot of people attribute
to like, oh, you gotta be like,you know, straight A students,
you know, uh, college accolades,those kind of things to, to be,
uh, an entrepreneur in thisrealm.
But for me, like, I, honestly, Istruggled a lot in school.
Like a lot of people these days,you know, I, I was an ADD kid,
(02:25):
so I was, you know, diagnosedwith Attention Deficit Disorder.
Tests, you know, in high schooland even, even once I went to
college, were extremelychallenging.
My ability to like retaininformation the way that a lot
of people do, do, um, was, was,was quite challenging.
you know, I struggled, uh, and,and honestly like I went back
and forth between public schooland homeschooling and
(02:48):
eventually, had enough with itand got my GED.
Fast forward years later, I metmy wife and she was going to
school to become a teacher and,and finished up.
After she got her degree, shegave me the, the stink eye and
it's like, okay, your turn to goback to school.
I had two paths that interestedme.
One was graphic design and onewa was, uh, computer science.
She's like, well, I thinkcomputer science makes slightly
(03:09):
more money.
She urged me into thatdirection.
I got my degree, in computerscience.
I got a, an associate of applieduh, sciences in computer
science.
I got about three fourths of theway through my degree and
realized like, I don't know if Iam cut out to be a coder.
But I'm already here, so Ifinished my degree.
Safe to say I love that world inthat environment.
(03:31):
Shortly outta college, I landeda job as a project manager for a
software company, you know,using my college experience.
It was that first job that Ithink really, lit things up for
me, right?
I realized I wasn't the smartestper, person in that agency.
Actually, honestly, I was incharge of a lot of, uh, more
talented, um, you know, peoplethan myself.
(03:53):
Developers, I mean, people thatare just like, Mensa smart
people.
Russel (03:56):
I might, have to imagine that was intimidating or was
that just inspiring of, youknow, just to kind of see and,
and be able to be in the sameroom and rub elbows with folks
like that?
Adam (04:04):
Initially it was kind of intimidating, but the, the
reality is like, you know,nobody really knew.
A lot of the people that I wasworking with didn't know that I
struggled through high schooland then, somewhat in college.
What I lacked in, in maybe like,expertise in software, I, I
definitely made up in hustle,right?
But for me it was an eye-opener.
'Cause I realized like, okay, Iam, I'm generally responsible
(04:25):
for managing these people thatare a lot more intelligent than
I am, but realistically I wasprobably actually making more
money than they were.
That's where I, it kind ofreally dawned on me that, it's,
we're taught, I think, a lot inschool, like, oh, get good
grades because then you're gonnaget a good job and a good
career.
But when you get into the realworld, that's not exactly how it
works.
And then I started to thinkabout all the different
(04:45):
scenarios, like, like the SteveJobs and Steve Wozniak scenario.
Now both of them are, arebrilliant.
Don't get me wrong, but SteveWasniak, in my opinion, was the
brains of Apple, at least in theearly days.
But he had no businessacclimate, right?
He wanted to give away, I thinkit was the Apple 2.
And Steve Jobs, probably stillincredibly intelligent, not the
(05:07):
brainiac that Steve Wasniak was.
He's like, you can't give thisaway.
There's a business here, right?
And so That was the first timethat I think I got like that
boost of confidence.
I don't have to necessarily be,academically the smartest person
in the room.
There's other types of, um, Ithink, intellect, right?
Besides just, book smart, right?
Russel (05:26):
Yeah.
I feel like we need to justdispel that notion.
I feel like that's like ahundred year old myth now.
This whole get good grades andthat's the path to success in
the world.
I even feel like, um, just nowkind of going through this
journey with my own kids andgoing to college, that that's,
colleges are looking less andless from the, the status quo
structure, I can read a bookstudy for a test and do that
thing.
They want some of that morerange and interestingness
(05:47):
because, um, as you said,there's so many different types
of intelligence and how thatactually leads to success.
That's an inspiring storyalready, and thank you for
sharing something which soundslike I imagine had to be a tough
time period when you just feellike you don't quite fit in or
you're not doing it right, airquotes.
You know what's interestingthough, when you were sharing
that story is, I mean, I feellike you hear so many stories
(06:07):
like that, that folks that arein the, in the creative realm,
like musicians, school doesn'tfit.
But it's interesting when, andyou generally said you're not a
coder, but you went down thisvery logical, um, right brain
path.
Maybe to what you're saying, youkind of found out that you
don't, that's not, not stillquite your zone of genius.
Adam (06:23):
It's interesting these days, especially with what's
happening, you know, like withthe modern state of like, AI,
right?
Right now, like, if you goonline, there's, there's a lot
of buzz around, no coding,right?
Large language models haveessentially created an
environment where, honestlytoday the, the top programming
language is English.
It's reduced the barrier ofentry because I think for me,
(06:45):
the biggest challenge when I wasprogramming and, and for those
that are programmers, honestly,it's a lot like learning another
language, right?
It's like learning Spanish orGerman or French.
You're having to learn differentcoding languages and you're
having to somewhat repeat thisfor every language.
For me, that was the biggestchallenge, right?
But the creativity aspect, like,I have an idea and I want to see
it come to life, like that's, Ilive and breathe that.
(07:08):
And Up until this point, a lotof that has been channeled
through, you know, team members.
we have developers on staff, uh,designers, writers, um, and so
I've been able to channel thatthrough the people I work with,
you know, without having toactually put hands on a, a, a
terminal.
But now with AI, um, people likemyself can, can literally go and
(07:29):
speak to a computer and start toiterate on ideas.
It's this whole new area of, uh,opportunity for those people
that maybe, maybe don't have theacclimate or the training or the
education to code, but haveideas that they wanna run with.
In that respect, it's reallyinteresting and also like the
data science is where like myinterest is, has evolved.
(07:51):
I tend to understand charts andtrends a lot more than I did the
computer science, which is kindof how I delved into the whole
marketing realm in the firstplace, right?
Russel (07:59):
I love this.
I'm just fascinated.
I wanna hear more about yourstory of just this weave that
you're going through to reallyfind where your, where your
passion and talent and skillsall meet and in one, and how
you're able to leverage that inyour business.
So your wife made you go tocollege, and, sent you down a
path.
Walk us into what, where in themoment where you're like, you
know what, I'm gonna start abusiness.
Adam (08:18):
It started early on.
Initially, it was that firststartup that I worked at.
I still attribute that job, um,to where I'm at today.
I still, um, am friends with thefounder.
What I tell people is, uh, itwas one of the worst experiences
of my life, but I wouldn't tradeit for the world.
It was grueling.
Russel (08:39):
This sounds how I talk about basic training in the
military.
Adam (08:42):
Yeah.
And looking back, maybe, maybejust'cause I was young and not
akin to working hard, right?
But it felt like, you know, 10,10 hour, sometimes 13 hour days,
it just, you know, it was just aslave.
It was one of those scenarioswhere like, it was sink or swim.
The first month or two I wasmanaging, upwards of, I think 20
clients.
(09:02):
And it was one of thoseenvironments where um, every
project manager was almostrunning their own business.
At some extent, if you have thatentrepreneurial spark and you're
in an environment like that, atsome point you're like, well,
I'm doing this for somebodyelse.
What if I just did this formyself?
Through that process, like eventhough I was working these long,
crazy hours, um, at some pointinside that business, I started
(09:25):
creating a side hustle.
I had well intentions.
I was doing this off the clock.
But somewhere along the way, Ishared what I was working with,
with my boss at the time.
Long story short, it didn't goover well.
I guess it was too much of amaybe a conflict of interest.
Essentially what I was doing atthe time is I was aggregating,
freelance job boards, right?
I was taking all of theseexisting freelance job boards.
(09:47):
I was aggregating the, the datathrough, uh, RSS and then
basically acting as themiddleman.
Instead of having to go to thisjob board and then this job
board and this job board, youcould come to my site.
And then I would basically, uh,have a, a subscription and, and
become the middleman, right?
So Anyway, I shared this with myboss thinking like, hey, we
could roll this into what we'redoing, you know, create talent
(10:09):
and just didn't go over well.
Eventually we parted ways.
It was amicable, but, uh.
Russel (10:12):
So you were actually trying to bring this idea into
your place of work business?
You weren't trying to just run,say, look at this, cool, I'm
gonna go work on this now.
You were innovating and theywere basically like, screw you.
Why are you trying to thinkoutside of the box?
Adam (10:25):
I can't say for, for certain, like, but yeah, I, I
think it just didn't, it rubbedthe, the owner the wrong way.
It was from that time that I hadthat spark of like, I want to do
something for myself, even ifI'm working for somebody else.
Actually it's, that's where wegot the name for the agency.
This word, this weird name,Enleaf.
The entity started out asfreelance machine.
(10:46):
Um, and today, like if you lookat the LLC behind, uh, behind
Enleaf, which is our DBA, it'sFreelance Machine.
That's how that started.
That birthed the agency.
We now, Eventually we pivoted.
We don't have that job boardanymore.
I wasn't as, as, as good of amarketer as I am today.
I was able to get the systemworking, but then I'm like,
okay, now what?
In hindsight it's like, man, ifI would've, you know, kept with
(11:08):
it, who knows?
But nonetheless, um, what Ilearned from that opportunity
that environment really helpedme kind of propel myself into
taking on clients.
But it didn't happen right away.
I had many other positions andjobs, head of marketing,
director of digital marketingafter that, uh, while I was
running, quote unquote a sidehustle.
I had a pretty long runway,honestly, um, before going out a
(11:30):
hundred percent on my own.
Russel (11:32):
When you think of yourself, was that, you just
maybe aren't risk averse and orin, just looking at it from an
income perspective or justreally never thought of yourself
as a true full entrepreneur?
How intentional versus justmanaging risk was that path?
Adam (11:46):
It was a little of both.
Honestly, like, when I firststarted it, the whole goal was
just to have, some extraspending money, like, and just
to have, a weekend like funproject, a client here or two.
I would say the last maybe two,three years that I was working
for a business, um, that's whenI actually started making more
money on the side, quoteunquote, than I was at my day
(12:07):
job.
That was around the time where Iwas like.
I was like, okay, I gotta makesome decisions here.
Honestly, it was around COVIDwhen I completely went like a
hundred percent.
you know, At the time I wasworking for a company, I was
their director of digitalmarketing.
It was a really cool business.
It was one of those companieswhere it's like, you know, beer
on Fridays, had a whole open barand cool startup, cool startup
(12:29):
vibe.
It was one of those scenarioswhere everybody loved this
place, myself included, right?
A great place to work.
But, I still had this feeling oflike, I get why everyone loves
this job, but I still justdidn't feel that was it for me.
Long story short, this company,which was in the travel
hospitality space, um, you know,COVID came along, basically
(12:49):
wiped them out.
They were a hundred milliondollar series C round and the
investors just completelywalked.
They had never seen anythinglike this.
They were essentially the worstcase scenario for a the worst
business model for COVID, travelhospitality in the heart of like
metropolitan areas.
I got a job immediately afterthat.
That job that I had wasunfortunately everything I hated
(13:11):
about, um, about working forsomeone else.
Micromanaged.
There's a little bit of bait andswitch.
I thought I was gonna have ateam, but then I was just by, by
myself.
I was doing a lot of things thatjust didn't interest me, and it
was at that time that I, I had aconversation with my wife.
I was making a lot more money onthe side than at my day job and
I forced her hand.
I said, hey, one of these has togo'cause I'm working way too
many hours.
(13:32):
I either need to quit my job orsell the business.
Obviously the business is makingmore money.
It's only taking about 20% of mytime.
The day job's, 80%.
She's like, okay, let's, let'sjust get a plan together.
Let's save up a year'sequivalent salary.
Which honestly only took me amatter of months.
It was that experience because,you know, I basically, for a
while, I was kind of just, youknow, putting this on my wife,
(13:54):
like, oh, she needs the quoteunquote security of a day job.
But at the point where she said,okay, let's, let's make this
work.
Then it was like, oh crap, nowit's, now it's on me.
Then I started to be like, ohman.
I started having these thoughtslike, okay, what if I do this, I
go out all on my own and I'mstill not happy?
I still have that unfulfilledfeeling.
Well then the problems with me,not, not the workforce.
(14:16):
you know, and I can say like, itwas the right move for me.
I wish I would've done itsooner, um, but I also, you
know, I don't regret the processthat it took.
I think the one blessing forwaiting so long is that, um, I
didn't have to have those nightswhere I, I didn't know where
money was coming in.
I had enough of a runway, maybea little bit too long of a
runway, but enough of a runway,um, that the switch wasn't
(14:38):
difficult really.
Russel (14:39):
I can really see, and, and you know, it probably is a
good lesson that it, it it isbetter to, you know, just this
idea of instant gratification ordelayed gratification of wait
just a little bit longer thansomething seems necessary, um,
or, or desire, right?
What your heart wants, and thenwhat's practical, because that
word is what come to my, came tomind is runway.
If we can give ourselves thatcomfort in runway, it, it's so
(15:02):
much easier to focus on valueand the important things that
are actually gonna make yousuccessful, not where am I gonna
get my next meal from?
Which can, quite honestly, and Ithink in my own case, you, you
can make a lot of bad decisionswhen you're just trying to get a
meal.
Versus no, what's most valuablefor the customer and how do we
create that, do that?
I can see where that's been veryhelpful in your journey.
Adam (15:22):
Right.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Russel (15:25):
So, Enleaf.
Did you ever tell us how, whatthe name was or, or behind the
actual name Enleaf?
I heard, uh, the, the othercorp, corporate name.
Adam (15:34):
There's really not much to it.
I've tried to make up likeanagrams and all this stuff, but
honestly it was just, I, I, Igrabbed the URL back in the day.
There was a period in theinternet where you had all this
web 2.0 stuff and people werecoming up with these, crazy
names that really meant nothing.
But they were short and theywere dot com.
I worked one at one point with acompany called WakeFlot, I think
(15:55):
they're called WakeFly, whichagain, one of these weird, uh,
names that, doesn't mean reallyanything.
Originally that started out as afreelance job board, but I
dissolved that.
I'm like, hey, I got this short,somewhat like buzzworthy name.
It does in some regardconnotate, I guess, growth, just
in the fact that there's theword leaf, but really it's just
a, it's just a short, uh, kindof out there name.
(16:17):
It's what we've had and so we'vekinda stuck with it.
Sometimes people call it Onleafor I get all kinds of weird
analogies.
It's one of those things where,um, I guess it works for us.
Doing it over again, I mighthave something a little bit more
descriptive, but it, it's, it'sthe stamp we got, so we're
sticking with it.
Russel (16:33):
It's not weird if it works.
I was joking, I don't know ifthis was on a podcast or not
recently, but that I could justdo a whole side podcast of only
bringing people on to talk abouttheir naming journey and
whatever that looks like.
And I feel like that wouldactually be an interesting, uh,
side.
So niche.
Agency Naming Story, uh,Podcast, and there'd be no
shortage of good content.
Adam (16:54):
Yeah, that'd be fun.
Russel (16:56):
All right.
You made this leap.
Had conversation with the wife,decided, you know, saved up, go
get yourself this runway.
What was your first focus dayone?
What were your intent on?
Adam (17:03):
Honestly, day one it was just kind of like figuring out
processes, um, trying to onboardnew clients.
Just trying to figure out likeall of the core structure.
Which is funny'cause I feel likewe're always doing that.
We're always, making slightchanges and modifications, uh,
to our processes, our product,um, all of that good stuff.
Day one is just kind of reallytrying to, nail down what our
(17:26):
offering was.
Russel (17:27):
What was that process you went through?
'Cause obviously you'd beendoing work for a while.
Were you thinking that was goingto change now that you were
doing this full time?
Adam (17:33):
As we were getting into it, I mean, a lot of it was just
kind of like, honestly likeflying by the seat of my pants.
I had more time to like, at someextent, to start slowing down
and like, okay, what could we beoffering in addition to like
kind of some baseline, right?
It wasn't as articulated as whatwe have today.
Today, we have a pretty goodoverview of our package, a nice
(17:54):
little presentation.
It was kind of, I wouldn't sayas, as loose as like throwing
stuff at the wall and seeingwhat sticks, but also it was, it
was a lot more, um, ad hoc perclient than even what we do
today.
We still very much tailor stuffto each client, but we have a
pretty good baseline.
It's like, hey, 80% is gonna bedefined and the rest we're gonna
(18:14):
customize to each client.
Back then it was probably closerto like, 50%.
Russel (18:18):
Because you built this runway for yourself, you could
take a, a different approachwhere I think a lot of people
get to the luxury of, or not theluxury, I guess you could say,
of having where it was this,this was the first time you
actually got to take a step backand probably refine your
offering, you know, because itwas a side hustle.
You were trying to do it in, inthe wee hours and stuff that.
I think even what you're gettingat there, um, is how hard of
(18:39):
work it is to, to narrow down.
Even going back to how youdescribed the incident,
beginning very succinct, likegetting crystal clear about your
offering, how you do it, and,and making that resonate with
people is not easy work.
Adam (18:51):
No, it took, yeah, it took a while.
There's a couple things that Iwish we would've done sooner.
One, um, we have kind of apseudo little pitch deck.
Anytime we get prospect on thecall, we have a deck that we go
through that details, here's,here's the what and the why's,
and then also case studies.
That's something that I wish wewould've done much sooner, but
now we have that built into ourprocesses where, it's a
(19:12):
definitive part of what we do.
It took a long time to reallyput polish on things.
Before that it was just likemore of a general like,
explanation and, hope and praythat people would understand
through, a general articulationof here's what we do and why.
Luckily, you know, we've, wepractice what we preach.
A lot of people know us becauseof SEO.
(19:32):
That's not all that we do.
You know, we go, We do Googleadvertising, design, website
design and development, and so,knock on wood, um, carved out a
niche and expertise in that sothat, you know, for a lot of our
clientele, they're looking forthat particular discipline, um,
or looking for web design.
Because of our own SEOcapabilities, we've, we show up
prominent where we want to showup, right?
(19:54):
Doing the same thing forourselves that we do for our
clientele also has reallyhelped.
Get what we do out there, right?
Now it's just, in the lateryears it's all about polishing
the presentation.
Luckily we were able to makethat all work in the sequence
that we we unpacked that with.
Russel (20:09):
I love that.
I'm sorry.
Angels were singing in my ear asyou were saying that, that, this
notion of, um, because right, sooften we hear it, I'm sure I've
talked about this on previousepisodes of, you know, the
painter's house is neverpainted, cobbler's kids has no
shoes always applies to agenciesand how, how backwards we really
have that.
We have to prioritize ourselvesas an agency.
(20:30):
For all the reasons that youjust stated, be your own best
client.
Obviously time, just to findtime, that always seems to be
difficult But what do you think?
Why was that so important toyou?
Or how were you able to overcomesomething that can be very, very
hard for a lot of other folks?
Adam (20:43):
Going back to kind of like my story, like, a lot of the
early days when I, had one ortwo clients and Enleaf was just
a side hustle.
A lot of my effort was was myown business, right?
My own website.
That's where I spent a lot ofthe time learning how does this
SEO stuff work and this digitalmarketing and conversion rate,
optimization and design.
I had many years to perfect thatwith our own entities, so that
(21:07):
when it came to clients, notonly was our own business
showing up prominently, but it'slike, hey, we've done this.
Now we, we can, you can provethat we can do this for you.
there are, and Even in our ownbusiness, there are segments
where it's like, the shoemakeris missing, missing a shoe,
right?
But I think we've done a prettygood job, uh, at, at, you know,
(21:28):
keeping an eye on what we'redoing.
And now, As of late, now that Ihave, a team built out and all
that stuff, um, that's kind ofmy, my main role within the
company, outside of high levelorganization, I still get
involved with, kind of sales andprospecting.
But a lot of what I do is tobecome kind of, you know,
working on the business, not,uh, not in the business, less
(21:50):
so, than the early days.
That's not always for someonewho's just starting out.
That's not always a luxury, butthat should be the goal, right?
Is get to the point where youcan either become the face of
the business or be workingprimarily on the business
instead of in the business like.
That should be your objectivebecause that's where you start
seeing growth.
That's where you can startfocusing on what really, lights
(22:10):
you up at the time.
Russel (22:11):
Great takeaway.
I can start to understand wherenomenclature has to just shift,
even if it's the same sentiment,right?
This work on the business, notin the business.
I think it's almost become whitenoise from, yeah, yeah.
I know I need to do that, butI've got a billion other things.
Someday I'll get there.
Here we're sitting here sayinghow important that really is for
success, making that investment.
All I'll say for our listenersout there is how important that
(22:32):
investment, if you can only doan hour a week, do the hour a
week, and over time, how can youpull back more time to do that?
Because that's the investmentthat has to be made to, to get
on the road as to solve some ofthe problems you're feeling
today.
That's how you put those firesout by making that investment.
Maybe if we just go back to thatrunway piece that you had has
just allowed you to always havea little more clear, um, picture
(22:55):
of the importance of that, orit's been, it's been reinforced
to you maybe is what I'mhearing.
Adam (22:59):
Yeah.
And that's the thing is like,not everybody's built to be an
entrepreneur, right?
And run a business.
If you're really happy as aspecialist in one discipline,
maybe you're a graphic designeror you love doing SEO or Google
ads, like maybe it's not your,your place to necessarily run a
business, right?
Maybe you could be just as happyworking for a company or an
agency, um, and that there's noharm in that, right?
(23:20):
That's the other challenge like,that I, I see a lot of
entrepreneurs is they're reallygood in one area, but they
never, they never graduate tobeing, you know, more of an
administrator or a projectmanager or, uh, you know, a
business owner.
You have to kind of go into itif that is your goal.
Knowing that at some point I'mgonna need to pass the baton on
(23:41):
my specialty, right?
These days, I don't do a lot ofSEO.
I talk about it all the time.
I'm on stages, domestically,internationally, and I still
live and breathe that stuff, butI'm not actually doing a lot of
it because, I just not, I, I'mnot at that stage anymore.
Now I, I'm able to pass that onto, um, to others, right?
Russel (24:00):
I was very inspired by, as you were sharing that, I
think I'm gonna write somecontent about this idea, but I
don't know, just to, to thepoint of kind of what you're
saying is, is almost take a stepback and look at the job you're
doing.
What is the job you're doing?
You kinda mentioned, am I doinga lot of admin?
Is that the job?
You would hire someone andprobably pay yourself whatever
you're paying yourself to, to dothat work?
I'm gonna guess in a lot ofcases the answer is no.
(24:20):
I would not pay myself a hundredthousand dollars a year to do a
bunch of admin work or whateverthat case is.
Just ask the real question, um,that, I guess, and it seems like
you've been able to do thisreally good in your, in your
career and life of, am I happy?
Is this taking me down a placeof fulfillment?
And if we can just be reallyhonest about that, that we're,
(24:41):
no matter whether we'reentrepreneur or not, we're gonna
end up in a good spot.
Adam (24:44):
That's the thing is like there are still times where I
get my hands, you know, dirty.
Right?
It's kind of fun'cause like Ihave team members that, you
know, they're still passionateabout the, I don't, I don't even
wanna call it the grunt work,the technical stuff, right?
And that's great to have thatpassion.
But like, again, you, as a, asan entrepreneur, you kind of
gotta figure out what to let goof and what to, to maintain.
(25:07):
Luckily I've been doing, youknow, um, SEO and, and website
development management and allthat stuff for so long that it's
like, it's like old hat stufffor me now.
Okay, what else could I orshould I be doing?
But at the same time, I get tolive vicariously through a lot
of our team members.
It's fun seeing them like learnstuff and they're teaching me
stuff, right?
And I'm the quote unquote, youknow, old hat at this stuff.
(25:29):
Sometimes it's fun with our teambecause a lot of times I play
dumb.
It's like, oh, I don't know.
But then sometimes I gotta stepin.
I'm like, you know, pull up mysleeves and like, okay, let me
show you the, the master atwork.
It's this fun game that we play.
That's the thing too, is like, Ithink as a, as an entrepreneur,
once you start growing a team,um, I think one of the hardest
things is letting go, right?
(25:50):
Letting go of responsibility.
That's a big thing, uh,especially for those that have
been doing things for so long,is being able to trust your
team, knowing that they're gonnamake mistakes and, and that's
gotta be okay.
Otherwise, you're, you're nevergonna scale.
Russel (26:04):
They gotta go through that same learning curve that
effectively you got, you gottimes a thousand.
If we can just give them times ahundred, that's better off than,
than nothing.
I love this, uh, playing dumb.
That sounds like, you know, andyou read so many things about
leadership, that that's the lastthing you'd ever want to put
down in a leadership book.
I'm gonna be behind this becauseI equate it oftentimes,
leadership and management toparenting.
(26:24):
When I give my kids an answer orthey ask a question and I just
blurt out a solution or ananswer, I'm, I'm missing an
opportunity for them to learnsome of those being like, I
don't know.
Gosh.
Do you know something aboutthis?
They can go explain somethingand reflect on their own
thoughts and have this moment.
I can see where that can bereally powerful.
Adam (26:41):
We're in the age, you know, especially now, like
where, even when I was going toschool, before we had all this
cool fancy like, um, AI stuff,like, even then, like a lot of
it was not about finding theanswers.
It was like figuring out, uh, orknowing the answers rather.
It's about can you find theanswers?
Even back when I was doing,software development, well over
(27:01):
a decade ago.
A lot of it was like, okay, whatlibraries can you dig up and
repurpose?
A lot of the coding was notwriting code from scratch.
It's like taking libraries andcalling upon those things.
These days, I think one of themost, important skills, that we
don't emphasize enough is notrote knowledge, but can you find
answers?
(27:22):
Can you problem solve?
If you don't know something,what is your procedure or
process to find the answer?
I think that's anunderemphasized, necessity in
today's age.
Russel (27:32):
Folks I work with that are kind of trying to go through
that process of untanglingthemselves to the business.
That's the big thing we firstwork on is, when you're asked a
question, what is your response?
If it's a solution, that can'tbe the case anymore.
You have to wear a bracelet,whatever that case is, so that
you don't just jump intosolutioning mode.
You basically come back with aquestion of, um, I, you know,
I'm sure I've got some thoughts,but, you know, what do you think
(27:54):
or what do you, what would youpropose to do here?
Don't become the resource.
Help them create the resourceor, or guide them elsewhere.
It sounds like that's beenprobably, that's probably been
an effective tool for you to bemore in a place where you can
focus on the business.
Adam (28:07):
Yeah, it certainly has.
Russel (28:09):
Awesome.
The through line that seems tobe coming out in this episode
is, um, just, you know, aboutfulfillment and just making sure
you're thriving in, in whatyou're doing.
You kind of have a focus arounda results only work environment,
which I know is a spectrum untoitself as a concept in terms of
what it looks like in abusiness.
I imagine that has something todo with it, but how, how has
that looked in your businessand, and why is that important
(28:30):
for you to have in yourorganization?
Adam (28:32):
I've had the opportunity to work for a few different
employers where they gave me acertain level of, of autonomy,
right?
Some of those were pushed uponthem because I had this side
hustle.
Even if you're not to the pointwhere you're ready to jump out,
having a side income can be verypowerful because then you have
leverage at your day job.
Before this was ever popular, Iwas, I mean, pushing the
(28:54):
envelope, like remote work andthis is way pre COVID, right.
I would make the arguments, alot of this was, basically
birthed by the Four Hour WorkWeek.
I went through that book and Itook Tim Ferriss's model for
the, the request for remotework.
I was like, I'm doing this.
I'm gonna figure this out.
I did that really early, to thepoint where I made myself so
valuable inside of businesses,um, that I could push the
(29:17):
envelope, you know?
I was working a month in CostaRica, or working, once or twice
a a, a week at home.
I knew that that experience,that type of autonomy kept me
happy in those businesses, atleast, until it no longer
worked.
I've always wanted to recreatethat inside of our own agency,
right?
I want people to, um, reallyenjoy what they do.
(29:40):
The whole idea is, that, it'snot like we're gonna micromanage
you.
We don't have time clocks.
If you need time off, just letus know.
If you want to travel, you wantto be in, you know, the
Philippines, one month and thensomewhere else, uh, another
like, that's fine.
The objective is, are we meetingour goals?
Are we meeting our KPIs?
There is a book that's, that'sin sport inspired, um, by, um,
(30:02):
also.
That's kind of what we tried tobreathe into our business.
Virtually all of our team are,are remote, right?
We have team members all across,you know, the US and the globe.
It's worked really well.
These days it's a lot moreacceptable post COVID, but we've
been doing that, you know, insome extent, even, uh, before
that.
Russel (30:19):
Way to be a pioneer.
What's the book that, uh, thatyou're, you're saying was the
inspiration?
Adam (30:24):
Now I'm blanking.
I think it's just called ROWE orResults Oriented Work
Environment.
I should have looked that upprior.
If you do a search for thatthough, uh, you'll, I'm sure
you'll, you'll be bound to findit.
Russel (30:34):
We put resources on the blog post, and this is a shout
out to our listeners here.
If you come up with it after theepisode, we'll put a link to it
there.
Adam (30:40):
I know Best Buy was experimenting with this, and so
they have some prettyinteresting case studies.
Obviously not for their in-storeemployees, but for a lot of
their corporate.
I don't know if they still dothat today, but I was inspired.
One of the case studiesbasically, if I remember right,
he wanted to be basically, hewas a roadie, I wanna say for
the Dave Matthews band orsomething like that.
They're like, hey, he gets hiswork done, and we don't care
(31:01):
that he's traveling around,around with this, being a roadie
for these bands.
As long as he's getting the jobdone.
I'm like, that's great.
And, and Honestly, like that'salso the biggest part of, or a
very big part of the DNA of ourbusiness.
We're not looking to be thishuge growth business, right?
We're a small boutique agencybut we really want a lifestyle
(31:21):
business.
We want to, to be a company thatour, uh, our staff, our
employees love working for,because that ultimately benefits
our clients.
They see that we, we show up,we're happy to do our work.
An extra spark of, I thinkenergy, that you may not always
get from a large growth agency.
And There's no harm in that.
(31:42):
There are some people thatreally want build a huge growth
company, and that's, that'sgreat.
But you have to go into thisunderstanding, are you gonna be
a lifestyle business or a growthbusiness?
Those two things are notnecessarily the same.
Russel (31:54):
To the whole point back to, again, maybe say fulfillment
and intentionality of this.
What is that and how do thosealign?
I'm optimistic and stillbelieve, and, and we got, we got
a little bit bigger than, thanthe, what you might consider the
boutique.
I think we had around 40 folksand it was always my goal to
say, I believe that if with theright intention and,
authenticity that you can, youcan have a bigger organization
(32:17):
and still, just, just have someof those cultural elements that
you don't have to just become abig corporate machine.
Now, I'm sure, you know, I, Idon't know, part of me, in a
second life wants to go test,like, can, how high can you
scale that?
Can you scale that into thethousands, that idea?
I believe you can, but I, I, Icould see where, um, you just
really have to look at thingsvery differently.
(32:37):
Glad to hear you're out therebeing that place.
I'm so sad that we're having allthis return to work initiatives
through all these, uh,corporations now that, um, we,
we were close to the light andthen they just couldn't handle
the, they couldn't handle it.
Adam (32:52):
I know.
I agree with you.
I think it's kind of a bummer,but, and part of me is like, you
know, rubbing my hands.
I'm like, okay, that's morepeople we can attract to, to
what we do because now we'regonna become the outlier again.
Once again.
Russel (33:04):
That's a good call.
I'll live with that.
Big companies keep doing that.
Return to work.
Great.
Great idea, good policy.
Keep that up.
Awesome.
Got a glimpse of kind of whatthe future looks like for you
and your business and how you'reapproaching this.
Sounds like just morefulfillments, and as you said, a
lifestyle business.
I'll just leave you with onelast big question here, Adam.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
Adam (33:23):
Honestly, I want to say both, but I think they're born
before they're made.
At least from my experience, itwas, it was a spark that was
inside me.
I think I kept it dormant for,uh, way too long.
Once I accepted that, then I hadto work on actually crafting and
making, you know, what thatlooks like in my life.
Maybe it's a cop out.
I'm gonna say a little bit ofboth, but I, I think they have
to be born first and made, madesecond.
Russel (33:42):
No cop out at all.
Like anything, we don't reallylive in a world of absolutes, so
it's always gotta be some, somecombination there.
Great insight.
If people wanna know more aboutEnleaf, where can they go?
Adam (33:52):
We're easy to find, uh, enleaf.com.
It's E-N-L-E-A F dot com.
Otherwise, if you're interestedin connecting with me, I'm, I'm
pretty easy to find.
Just do a quick Google searchfor, for my name.
Happy to connect with you guys.
I'm on basically all thedifferent social media platforms
and so yeah, I'd love to connectand learn more about, uh, about
the listeners.
Russel (34:12):
Perfect.
There you have it folks.
Thank you so much, Adam, fortaking the time outta your
schedule, from working on thebusiness to share some of your
insights and your learnings.
So many great takeaways fromjust the importance of
intentionality, runway and just,you know, the, the perspective
and, and be able to bring toyour business with those
ingredients.
Really appreciate you taking thetime to share that with us
today.
Adam (34:33):
My pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Russel (34:36):
Thank you for listening to An Agency Story podcast where
every story helps you write yourown, subscribe, share, and join
us again for more real stories,lessons learned, and
breakthroughs ahead.
What's next?
You'll want to visit anagencystory.com/podcast and
follow us on Instagram at@anagencystory for the latest
updates.
Adam (34:58):
One of the first clients that we worked with, uh, it was
me and another partner at thetime, and this was be, this was
before we had gone out, uh,before I'd gone out, uh, full
time, right?
We were excited.
We landed our first client as a,as a side hustle, right?
We spent a month or two startingto do an SEO campaign for this
(35:19):
client and lo and behold, uh, werealized that there was, uh, a
no index, uh, option set ontheir website two months in.
Russel (35:28):
Ouch.
Adam (35:29):
Here we're supposed to be helping them get visibility
online.
We're supposed to be the quoteunquote experts and nobody
bothered to check if the sitewas actually indexed in Google.
Man, it was embarrassing.
Now, I'm glad that happenedearly on because now guess
what's the first thing I checkwhenever we take on a new
project?
Russel (35:47):
That's why the first rule of tech support is check
the power button.
Adam (35:50):
The first rule of, uh, uh, of SEO is check if the website's
actually indexing in Google.
Russel (35:57):
Maybe someone else got to hear this today and learned
their lesson from your, fromyour mistake.
Another, um, class in the schoolof hard knocks.
We all gotta take our very heavycourse load in that sense.
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where owners and
experts share the real journey,the early struggles, the
breakthrough moments, andeverything in between.
I'm your host Russel Dubree,former eight figure agency owner
turned business coach, sold myagency and now helps agency
leaders create their idealbusiness.
Every agency has a story, andthis is your front row seat.
(00:23):
This is an agency story.
Welcome to the show todayeveryone.
I have Adam Chronister withEnleaf with us here today.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday, Adam.
Adam (00:39):
Yeah, Happy to be here.
Russel (00:41):
Happy to have you.
Right out of the gate, tell uswhat Enleaf does and who do you
do it for?
Adam (00:46):
Enleaf is what I like to call a data-driven search
marketing agency.
What that means is, uh, we helpbusinesses all the way from
website design and development,uh, onto the, the digital
marketing presence they have in,you know, various search
engines.
Google, Bing, Yahoo and nowgetting more and more into large
language models, right?
Anywhere you go to query abusiness, uh, that's where we
(01:08):
like to have our clients befound.
Russel (01:10):
I love that.
Sounds like a well practiced,uh, elevator pitch.
I imagine that took some time toget to, which speaks to your
expertise within your field.
We're gonna find out all aboutthat, over the course of the
show.
But before we learn all ofthings agency, we wanna learn
about young Adam.
Tell us where he came up in theworld and how it get, get us
closer to where we are today.
Adam (01:30):
How far back do you want to go, exactly?
Russel (01:32):
Birth.
What was your birth?
No.
I don't know.
Anything that you think defined,uh, was a defining moment for
your eventual trajectory.
How about that?
Adam (01:39):
That sounds fun and interesting.
There are some aspects that Idon't always get into, but, uh,
for you, I'll, I'll lift up theKomodo, as they say.
I'll go back to all the way, Iguess to high school.
In school days, like be, beingquite transparent and open like,
um, me and school, at least inthe early days.
Didn't really, really get alongright.
I think for a lot of people,it's actually kind of
surprising, um, because now youknow, I'm running a, a
(02:02):
successful agency in thesoftware development web design,
digital marketing realm, which Ithink a lot of people attribute
to like, oh, you gotta be like,you know, straight A students,
you know, uh, college accolades,those kind of things to, to be,
uh, an entrepreneur in thisrealm.
But for me, like, I, honestly, Istruggled a lot in school.
Like a lot of people these days,you know, I, I was an ADD kid,
(02:25):
so I was, you know, diagnosedwith Attention Deficit Disorder.
Tests, you know, in high schooland even, even once I went to
college, were extremelychallenging.
My ability to like retaininformation the way that a lot
of people do, do, um, was, was,was quite challenging.
you know, I struggled, uh, and,and honestly like I went back
and forth between public schooland homeschooling and
(02:48):
eventually, had enough with itand got my GED.
Fast forward years later, I metmy wife and she was going to
school to become a teacher and,and finished up.
After she got her degree, shegave me the, the stink eye and
it's like, okay, your turn to goback to school.
I had two paths that interestedme.
One was graphic design and onewa was, uh, computer science.
She's like, well, I thinkcomputer science makes slightly
(03:09):
more money.
She urged me into thatdirection.
I got my degree, in computerscience.
I got a, an associate of applieduh, sciences in computer
science.
I got about three fourths of theway through my degree and
realized like, I don't know if Iam cut out to be a coder.
But I'm already here, so Ifinished my degree.
Safe to say I love that world inthat environment.
(03:31):
Shortly outta college, I landeda job as a project manager for a
software company, you know,using my college experience.
It was that first job that Ithink really, lit things up for
me, right?
I realized I wasn't the smartestper, person in that agency.
Actually, honestly, I was incharge of a lot of, uh, more
talented, um, you know, peoplethan myself.
(03:53):
Developers, I mean, people thatare just like, Mensa smart
people.
Russel (03:56):
I might, have to imagine that was intimidating or was
that just inspiring of, youknow, just to kind of see and,
and be able to be in the sameroom and rub elbows with folks
like that?
Adam (04:04):
Initially it was kind of intimidating, but the, the
reality is like, you know,nobody really knew.
A lot of the people that I wasworking with didn't know that I
struggled through high schooland then, somewhat in college.
What I lacked in, in maybe like,expertise in software, I, I
definitely made up in hustle,right?
But for me it was an eye-opener.
'Cause I realized like, okay, Iam, I'm generally responsible
(04:25):
for managing these people thatare a lot more intelligent than
I am, but realistically I wasprobably actually making more
money than they were.
That's where I, it kind ofreally dawned on me that, it's,
we're taught, I think, a lot inschool, like, oh, get good
grades because then you're gonnaget a good job and a good
career.
But when you get into the realworld, that's not exactly how it
works.
And then I started to thinkabout all the different
(04:45):
scenarios, like, like the SteveJobs and Steve Wozniak scenario.
Now both of them are, arebrilliant.
Don't get me wrong, but SteveWasniak, in my opinion, was the
brains of Apple, at least in theearly days.
But he had no businessacclimate, right?
He wanted to give away, I thinkit was the Apple 2.
And Steve Jobs, probably stillincredibly intelligent, not the
(05:07):
brainiac that Steve Wasniak was.
He's like, you can't give thisaway.
There's a business here, right?
And so That was the first timethat I think I got like that
boost of confidence.
I don't have to necessarily be,academically the smartest person
in the room.
There's other types of, um, Ithink, intellect, right?
Besides just, book smart, right?
Russel (05:26):
Yeah.
I feel like we need to justdispel that notion.
I feel like that's like ahundred year old myth now.
This whole get good grades andthat's the path to success in
the world.
I even feel like, um, just nowkind of going through this
journey with my own kids andgoing to college, that that's,
colleges are looking less andless from the, the status quo
structure, I can read a bookstudy for a test and do that
thing.
They want some of that morerange and interestingness
(05:47):
because, um, as you said,there's so many different types
of intelligence and how thatactually leads to success.
That's an inspiring storyalready, and thank you for
sharing something which soundslike I imagine had to be a tough
time period when you just feellike you don't quite fit in or
you're not doing it right, airquotes.
You know what's interestingthough, when you were sharing
that story is, I mean, I feellike you hear so many stories
(06:07):
like that, that folks that arein the, in the creative realm,
like musicians, school doesn'tfit.
But it's interesting when, andyou generally said you're not a
coder, but you went down thisvery logical, um, right brain
path.
Maybe to what you're saying, youkind of found out that you
don't, that's not, not stillquite your zone of genius.
Adam (06:23):
It's interesting these days, especially with what's
happening, you know, like withthe modern state of like, AI,
right?
Right now, like, if you goonline, there's, there's a lot
of buzz around, no coding,right?
Large language models haveessentially created an
environment where, honestlytoday the, the top programming
language is English.
It's reduced the barrier ofentry because I think for me,
(06:45):
the biggest challenge when I wasprogramming and, and for those
that are programmers, honestly,it's a lot like learning another
language, right?
It's like learning Spanish orGerman or French.
You're having to learn differentcoding languages and you're
having to somewhat repeat thisfor every language.
For me, that was the biggestchallenge, right?
But the creativity aspect, like,I have an idea and I want to see
it come to life, like that's, Ilive and breathe that.
(07:08):
And Up until this point, a lotof that has been channeled
through, you know, team members.
we have developers on staff, uh,designers, writers, um, and so
I've been able to channel thatthrough the people I work with,
you know, without having toactually put hands on a, a, a
terminal.
But now with AI, um, people likemyself can, can literally go and
(07:29):
speak to a computer and start toiterate on ideas.
It's this whole new area of, uh,opportunity for those people
that maybe, maybe don't have theacclimate or the training or the
education to code, but haveideas that they wanna run with.
In that respect, it's reallyinteresting and also like the
data science is where like myinterest is, has evolved.
(07:51):
I tend to understand charts andtrends a lot more than I did the
computer science, which is kindof how I delved into the whole
marketing realm in the firstplace, right?
Russel (07:59):
I love this.
I'm just fascinated.
I wanna hear more about yourstory of just this weave that
you're going through to reallyfind where your, where your
passion and talent and skillsall meet and in one, and how
you're able to leverage that inyour business.
So your wife made you go tocollege, and, sent you down a
path.
Walk us into what, where in themoment where you're like, you
know what, I'm gonna start abusiness.
Adam (08:18):
It started early on.
Initially, it was that firststartup that I worked at.
I still attribute that job, um,to where I'm at today.
I still, um, am friends with thefounder.
What I tell people is, uh, itwas one of the worst experiences
of my life, but I wouldn't tradeit for the world.
It was grueling.
Russel (08:39):
This sounds how I talk about basic training in the
military.
Adam (08:42):
Yeah.
And looking back, maybe, maybejust'cause I was young and not
akin to working hard, right?
But it felt like, you know, 10,10 hour, sometimes 13 hour days,
it just, you know, it was just aslave.
It was one of those scenarioswhere like, it was sink or swim.
The first month or two I wasmanaging, upwards of, I think 20
clients.
(09:02):
And it was one of thoseenvironments where um, every
project manager was almostrunning their own business.
At some extent, if you have thatentrepreneurial spark and you're
in an environment like that, atsome point you're like, well,
I'm doing this for somebodyelse.
What if I just did this formyself?
Through that process, like eventhough I was working these long,
crazy hours, um, at some pointinside that business, I started
(09:25):
creating a side hustle.
I had well intentions.
I was doing this off the clock.
But somewhere along the way, Ishared what I was working with,
with my boss at the time.
Long story short, it didn't goover well.
I guess it was too much of amaybe a conflict of interest.
Essentially what I was doing atthe time is I was aggregating,
freelance job boards, right?
I was taking all of theseexisting freelance job boards.
(09:47):
I was aggregating the, the datathrough, uh, RSS and then
basically acting as themiddleman.
Instead of having to go to thisjob board and then this job
board and this job board, youcould come to my site.
And then I would basically, uh,have a, a subscription and, and
become the middleman, right?
So Anyway, I shared this with myboss thinking like, hey, we
could roll this into what we'redoing, you know, create talent
(10:09):
and just didn't go over well.
Eventually we parted ways.
It was amicable, but, uh.
Russel (10:12):
So you were actually trying to bring this idea into
your place of work business?
You weren't trying to just run,say, look at this, cool, I'm
gonna go work on this now.
You were innovating and theywere basically like, screw you.
Why are you trying to thinkoutside of the box?
Adam (10:25):
I can't say for, for certain, like, but yeah, I, I
think it just didn't, it rubbedthe, the owner the wrong way.
It was from that time that I hadthat spark of like, I want to do
something for myself, even ifI'm working for somebody else.
Actually it's, that's where wegot the name for the agency.
This word, this weird name,Enleaf.
The entity started out asfreelance machine.
(10:46):
Um, and today, like if you lookat the LLC behind, uh, behind
Enleaf, which is our DBA, it'sFreelance Machine.
That's how that started.
That birthed the agency.
We now, Eventually we pivoted.
We don't have that job boardanymore.
I wasn't as, as, as good of amarketer as I am today.
I was able to get the systemworking, but then I'm like,
okay, now what?
In hindsight it's like, man, ifI would've, you know, kept with
(11:08):
it, who knows?
But nonetheless, um, what Ilearned from that opportunity
that environment really helpedme kind of propel myself into
taking on clients.
But it didn't happen right away.
I had many other positions andjobs, head of marketing,
director of digital marketingafter that, uh, while I was
running, quote unquote a sidehustle.
I had a pretty long runway,honestly, um, before going out a
(11:30):
hundred percent on my own.
Russel (11:32):
When you think of yourself, was that, you just
maybe aren't risk averse and orin, just looking at it from an
income perspective or justreally never thought of yourself
as a true full entrepreneur?
How intentional versus justmanaging risk was that path?
Adam (11:46):
It was a little of both.
Honestly, like, when I firststarted it, the whole goal was
just to have, some extraspending money, like, and just
to have, a weekend like funproject, a client here or two.
I would say the last maybe two,three years that I was working
for a business, um, that's whenI actually started making more
money on the side, quoteunquote, than I was at my day
(12:07):
job.
That was around the time where Iwas like.
I was like, okay, I gotta makesome decisions here.
Honestly, it was around COVIDwhen I completely went like a
hundred percent.
you know, At the time I wasworking for a company, I was
their director of digitalmarketing.
It was a really cool business.
It was one of those companieswhere it's like, you know, beer
on Fridays, had a whole open barand cool startup, cool startup
(12:29):
vibe.
It was one of those scenarioswhere everybody loved this
place, myself included, right?
A great place to work.
But, I still had this feeling oflike, I get why everyone loves
this job, but I still justdidn't feel that was it for me.
Long story short, this company,which was in the travel
hospitality space, um, you know,COVID came along, basically
(12:49):
wiped them out.
They were a hundred milliondollar series C round and the
investors just completelywalked.
They had never seen anythinglike this.
They were essentially the worstcase scenario for a the worst
business model for COVID, travelhospitality in the heart of like
metropolitan areas.
I got a job immediately afterthat.
That job that I had wasunfortunately everything I hated
(13:11):
about, um, about working forsomeone else.
Micromanaged.
There's a little bit of bait andswitch.
I thought I was gonna have ateam, but then I was just by, by
myself.
I was doing a lot of things thatjust didn't interest me, and it
was at that time that I, I had aconversation with my wife.
I was making a lot more money onthe side than at my day job and
I forced her hand.
I said, hey, one of these has togo'cause I'm working way too
many hours.
(13:32):
I either need to quit my job orsell the business.
Obviously the business is makingmore money.
It's only taking about 20% of mytime.
The day job's, 80%.
She's like, okay, let's, let'sjust get a plan together.
Let's save up a year'sequivalent salary.
Which honestly only took me amatter of months.
It was that experience because,you know, I basically, for a
while, I was kind of just, youknow, putting this on my wife,
(13:54):
like, oh, she needs the quoteunquote security of a day job.
But at the point where she said,okay, let's, let's make this
work.
Then it was like, oh crap, nowit's, now it's on me.
Then I started to be like, ohman.
I started having these thoughtslike, okay, what if I do this, I
go out all on my own and I'mstill not happy?
I still have that unfulfilledfeeling.
Well then the problems with me,not, not the workforce.
(14:16):
you know, and I can say like, itwas the right move for me.
I wish I would've done itsooner, um, but I also, you
know, I don't regret the processthat it took.
I think the one blessing forwaiting so long is that, um, I
didn't have to have those nightswhere I, I didn't know where
money was coming in.
I had enough of a runway, maybea little bit too long of a
runway, but enough of a runway,um, that the switch wasn't
(14:38):
difficult really.
Russel (14:39):
I can really see, and, and you know, it probably is a
good lesson that it, it it isbetter to, you know, just this
idea of instant gratification ordelayed gratification of wait
just a little bit longer thansomething seems necessary, um,
or, or desire, right?
What your heart wants, and thenwhat's practical, because that
word is what come to my, came tomind is runway.
If we can give ourselves thatcomfort in runway, it, it's so
(15:02):
much easier to focus on valueand the important things that
are actually gonna make yousuccessful, not where am I gonna
get my next meal from?
Which can, quite honestly, and Ithink in my own case, you, you
can make a lot of bad decisionswhen you're just trying to get a
meal.
Versus no, what's most valuablefor the customer and how do we
create that, do that?
I can see where that's been veryhelpful in your journey.
Adam (15:22):
Right.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Russel (15:25):
So, Enleaf.
Did you ever tell us how, whatthe name was or, or behind the
actual name Enleaf?
I heard, uh, the, the othercorp, corporate name.
Adam (15:34):
There's really not much to it.
I've tried to make up likeanagrams and all this stuff, but
honestly it was just, I, I, Igrabbed the URL back in the day.
There was a period in theinternet where you had all this
web 2.0 stuff and people werecoming up with these, crazy
names that really meant nothing.
But they were short and theywere dot com.
I worked one at one point with acompany called WakeFlot, I think
(15:55):
they're called WakeFly, whichagain, one of these weird, uh,
names that, doesn't mean reallyanything.
Originally that started out as afreelance job board, but I
dissolved that.
I'm like, hey, I got this short,somewhat like buzzworthy name.
It does in some regardconnotate, I guess, growth, just
in the fact that there's theword leaf, but really it's just
a, it's just a short, uh, kindof out there name.
(16:17):
It's what we've had and so we'vekinda stuck with it.
Sometimes people call it Onleafor I get all kinds of weird
analogies.
It's one of those things where,um, I guess it works for us.
Doing it over again, I mighthave something a little bit more
descriptive, but it, it's, it'sthe stamp we got, so we're
sticking with it.
Russel (16:33):
It's not weird if it works.
I was joking, I don't know ifthis was on a podcast or not
recently, but that I could justdo a whole side podcast of only
bringing people on to talk abouttheir naming journey and
whatever that looks like.
And I feel like that wouldactually be an interesting, uh,
side.
So niche.
Agency Naming Story, uh,Podcast, and there'd be no
shortage of good content.
Adam (16:54):
Yeah, that'd be fun.
Russel (16:56):
All right.
You made this leap.
Had conversation with the wife,decided, you know, saved up, go
get yourself this runway.
What was your first focus dayone?
What were your intent on?
Adam (17:03):
Honestly, day one it was just kind of like figuring out
processes, um, trying to onboardnew clients.
Just trying to figure out likeall of the core structure.
Which is funny'cause I feel likewe're always doing that.
We're always, making slightchanges and modifications, uh,
to our processes, our product,um, all of that good stuff.
Day one is just kind of reallytrying to, nail down what our
(17:26):
offering was.
Russel (17:27):
What was that process you went through?
'Cause obviously you'd beendoing work for a while.
Were you thinking that was goingto change now that you were
doing this full time?
Adam (17:33):
As we were getting into it, I mean, a lot of it was just
kind of like, honestly likeflying by the seat of my pants.
I had more time to like, at someextent, to start slowing down
and like, okay, what could we beoffering in addition to like
kind of some baseline, right?
It wasn't as articulated as whatwe have today.
Today, we have a pretty goodoverview of our package, a nice
(17:54):
little presentation.
It was kind of, I wouldn't sayas, as loose as like throwing
stuff at the wall and seeingwhat sticks, but also it was, it
was a lot more, um, ad hoc perclient than even what we do
today.
We still very much tailor stuffto each client, but we have a
pretty good baseline.
It's like, hey, 80% is gonna bedefined and the rest we're gonna
(18:14):
customize to each client.
Back then it was probably closerto like, 50%.
Russel (18:18):
Because you built this runway for yourself, you could
take a, a different approachwhere I think a lot of people
get to the luxury of, or not theluxury, I guess you could say,
of having where it was this,this was the first time you
actually got to take a step backand probably refine your
offering, you know, because itwas a side hustle.
You were trying to do it in, inthe wee hours and stuff that.
I think even what you're gettingat there, um, is how hard of
(18:39):
work it is to, to narrow down.
Even going back to how youdescribed the incident,
beginning very succinct, likegetting crystal clear about your
offering, how you do it, and,and making that resonate with
people is not easy work.
Adam (18:51):
No, it took, yeah, it took a while.
There's a couple things that Iwish we would've done sooner.
One, um, we have kind of apseudo little pitch deck.
Anytime we get prospect on thecall, we have a deck that we go
through that details, here's,here's the what and the why's,
and then also case studies.
That's something that I wish wewould've done much sooner, but
now we have that built into ourprocesses where, it's a
(19:12):
definitive part of what we do.
It took a long time to reallyput polish on things.
Before that it was just likemore of a general like,
explanation and, hope and praythat people would understand
through, a general articulationof here's what we do and why.
Luckily, you know, we've, wepractice what we preach.
A lot of people know us becauseof SEO.
(19:32):
That's not all that we do.
You know, we go, We do Googleadvertising, design, website
design and development, and so,knock on wood, um, carved out a
niche and expertise in that sothat, you know, for a lot of our
clientele, they're looking forthat particular discipline, um,
or looking for web design.
Because of our own SEOcapabilities, we've, we show up
prominent where we want to showup, right?
(19:54):
Doing the same thing forourselves that we do for our
clientele also has reallyhelped.
Get what we do out there, right?
Now it's just, in the lateryears it's all about polishing
the presentation.
Luckily we were able to makethat all work in the sequence
that we we unpacked that with.
Russel (20:09):
I love that.
I'm sorry.
Angels were singing in my ear asyou were saying that, that, this
notion of, um, because right, sooften we hear it, I'm sure I've
talked about this on previousepisodes of, you know, the
painter's house is neverpainted, cobbler's kids has no
shoes always applies to agenciesand how, how backwards we really
have that.
We have to prioritize ourselvesas an agency.
(20:30):
For all the reasons that youjust stated, be your own best
client.
Obviously time, just to findtime, that always seems to be
difficult But what do you think?
Why was that so important toyou?
Or how were you able to overcomesomething that can be very, very
hard for a lot of other folks?
Adam (20:43):
Going back to kind of like my story, like, a lot of the
early days when I, had one ortwo clients and Enleaf was just
a side hustle.
A lot of my effort was was myown business, right?
My own website.
That's where I spent a lot ofthe time learning how does this
SEO stuff work and this digitalmarketing and conversion rate,
optimization and design.
I had many years to perfect thatwith our own entities, so that
(21:07):
when it came to clients, notonly was our own business
showing up prominently, but it'slike, hey, we've done this.
Now we, we can, you can provethat we can do this for you.
there are, and Even in our ownbusiness, there are segments
where it's like, the shoemakeris missing, missing a shoe,
right?
But I think we've done a prettygood job, uh, at, at, you know,
(21:28):
keeping an eye on what we'redoing.
And now, As of late, now that Ihave, a team built out and all
that stuff, um, that's kind ofmy, my main role within the
company, outside of high levelorganization, I still get
involved with, kind of sales andprospecting.
But a lot of what I do is tobecome kind of, you know,
working on the business, not,uh, not in the business, less
(21:50):
so, than the early days.
That's not always for someonewho's just starting out.
That's not always a luxury, butthat should be the goal, right?
Is get to the point where youcan either become the face of
the business or be workingprimarily on the business
instead of in the business like.
That should be your objectivebecause that's where you start
seeing growth.
That's where you can startfocusing on what really, lights
(22:10):
you up at the time.
Russel (22:11):
Great takeaway.
I can start to understand wherenomenclature has to just shift,
even if it's the same sentiment,right?
This work on the business, notin the business.
I think it's almost become whitenoise from, yeah, yeah.
I know I need to do that, butI've got a billion other things.
Someday I'll get there.
Here we're sitting here sayinghow important that really is for
success, making that investment.
All I'll say for our listenersout there is how important that
(22:32):
investment, if you can only doan hour a week, do the hour a
week, and over time, how can youpull back more time to do that?
Because that's the investmentthat has to be made to, to get
on the road as to solve some ofthe problems you're feeling
today.
That's how you put those firesout by making that investment.
Maybe if we just go back to thatrunway piece that you had has
just allowed you to always havea little more clear, um, picture
(22:55):
of the importance of that, orit's been, it's been reinforced
to you maybe is what I'mhearing.
Adam (22:59):
Yeah.
And that's the thing is like,not everybody's built to be an
entrepreneur, right?
And run a business.
If you're really happy as aspecialist in one discipline,
maybe you're a graphic designeror you love doing SEO or Google
ads, like maybe it's not your,your place to necessarily run a
business, right?
Maybe you could be just as happyworking for a company or an
agency, um, and that there's noharm in that, right?
(23:20):
That's the other challenge like,that I, I see a lot of
entrepreneurs is they're reallygood in one area, but they
never, they never graduate tobeing, you know, more of an
administrator or a projectmanager or, uh, you know, a
business owner.
You have to kind of go into itif that is your goal.
Knowing that at some point I'mgonna need to pass the baton on
(23:41):
my specialty, right?
These days, I don't do a lot ofSEO.
I talk about it all the time.
I'm on stages, domestically,internationally, and I still
live and breathe that stuff, butI'm not actually doing a lot of
it because, I just not, I, I'mnot at that stage anymore.
Now I, I'm able to pass that onto, um, to others, right?
Russel (24:00):
I was very inspired by, as you were sharing that, I
think I'm gonna write somecontent about this idea, but I
don't know, just to, to thepoint of kind of what you're
saying is, is almost take a stepback and look at the job you're
doing.
What is the job you're doing?
You kinda mentioned, am I doinga lot of admin?
Is that the job?
You would hire someone andprobably pay yourself whatever
you're paying yourself to, to dothat work?
I'm gonna guess in a lot ofcases the answer is no.
(24:20):
I would not pay myself a hundredthousand dollars a year to do a
bunch of admin work or whateverthat case is.
Just ask the real question, um,that, I guess, and it seems like
you've been able to do thisreally good in your, in your
career and life of, am I happy?
Is this taking me down a placeof fulfillment?
And if we can just be reallyhonest about that, that we're,
(24:41):
no matter whether we'reentrepreneur or not, we're gonna
end up in a good spot.
Adam (24:44):
That's the thing is like there are still times where I
get my hands, you know, dirty.
Right?
It's kind of fun'cause like Ihave team members that, you
know, they're still passionateabout the, I don't, I don't even
wanna call it the grunt work,the technical stuff, right?
And that's great to have thatpassion.
But like, again, you, as a, asan entrepreneur, you kind of
gotta figure out what to let goof and what to, to maintain.
(25:07):
Luckily I've been doing, youknow, um, SEO and, and website
development management and allthat stuff for so long that it's
like, it's like old hat stufffor me now.
Okay, what else could I orshould I be doing?
But at the same time, I get tolive vicariously through a lot
of our team members.
It's fun seeing them like learnstuff and they're teaching me
stuff, right?
And I'm the quote unquote, youknow, old hat at this stuff.
(25:29):
Sometimes it's fun with our teambecause a lot of times I play
dumb.
It's like, oh, I don't know.
But then sometimes I gotta stepin.
I'm like, you know, pull up mysleeves and like, okay, let me
show you the, the master atwork.
It's this fun game that we play.
That's the thing too, is like, Ithink as a, as an entrepreneur,
once you start growing a team,um, I think one of the hardest
things is letting go, right?
(25:50):
Letting go of responsibility.
That's a big thing, uh,especially for those that have
been doing things for so long,is being able to trust your
team, knowing that they're gonnamake mistakes and, and that's
gotta be okay.
Otherwise, you're, you're nevergonna scale.
Russel (26:04):
They gotta go through that same learning curve that
effectively you got, you gottimes a thousand.
If we can just give them times ahundred, that's better off than,
than nothing.
I love this, uh, playing dumb.
That sounds like, you know, andyou read so many things about
leadership, that that's the lastthing you'd ever want to put
down in a leadership book.
I'm gonna be behind this becauseI equate it oftentimes,
leadership and management toparenting.
(26:24):
When I give my kids an answer orthey ask a question and I just
blurt out a solution or ananswer, I'm, I'm missing an
opportunity for them to learnsome of those being like, I
don't know.
Gosh.
Do you know something aboutthis?
They can go explain somethingand reflect on their own
thoughts and have this moment.
I can see where that can bereally powerful.
Adam (26:41):
We're in the age, you know, especially now, like
where, even when I was going toschool, before we had all this
cool fancy like, um, AI stuff,like, even then, like a lot of
it was not about finding theanswers.
It was like figuring out, uh, orknowing the answers rather.
It's about can you find theanswers?
Even back when I was doing,software development, well over
(27:01):
a decade ago.
A lot of it was like, okay, whatlibraries can you dig up and
repurpose?
A lot of the coding was notwriting code from scratch.
It's like taking libraries andcalling upon those things.
These days, I think one of themost, important skills, that we
don't emphasize enough is notrote knowledge, but can you find
answers?
(27:22):
Can you problem solve?
If you don't know something,what is your procedure or
process to find the answer?
I think that's anunderemphasized, necessity in
today's age.
Russel (27:32):
Folks I work with that are kind of trying to go through
that process of untanglingthemselves to the business.
That's the big thing we firstwork on is, when you're asked a
question, what is your response?
If it's a solution, that can'tbe the case anymore.
You have to wear a bracelet,whatever that case is, so that
you don't just jump intosolutioning mode.
You basically come back with aquestion of, um, I, you know,
I'm sure I've got some thoughts,but, you know, what do you think
(27:54):
or what do you, what would youpropose to do here?
Don't become the resource.
Help them create the resourceor, or guide them elsewhere.
It sounds like that's beenprobably, that's probably been
an effective tool for you to bemore in a place where you can
focus on the business.
Adam (28:07):
Yeah, it certainly has.
Russel (28:09):
Awesome.
The through line that seems tobe coming out in this episode
is, um, just, you know, aboutfulfillment and just making sure
you're thriving in, in whatyou're doing.
You kind of have a focus arounda results only work environment,
which I know is a spectrum untoitself as a concept in terms of
what it looks like in abusiness.
I imagine that has something todo with it, but how, how has
that looked in your businessand, and why is that important
(28:30):
for you to have in yourorganization?
Adam (28:32):
I've had the opportunity to work for a few different
employers where they gave me acertain level of, of autonomy,
right?
Some of those were pushed uponthem because I had this side
hustle.
Even if you're not to the pointwhere you're ready to jump out,
having a side income can be verypowerful because then you have
leverage at your day job.
Before this was ever popular, Iwas, I mean, pushing the
(28:54):
envelope, like remote work andthis is way pre COVID, right.
I would make the arguments, alot of this was, basically
birthed by the Four Hour WorkWeek.
I went through that book and Itook Tim Ferriss's model for
the, the request for remotework.
I was like, I'm doing this.
I'm gonna figure this out.
I did that really early, to thepoint where I made myself so
valuable inside of businesses,um, that I could push the
(29:17):
envelope, you know?
I was working a month in CostaRica, or working, once or twice
a a, a week at home.
I knew that that experience,that type of autonomy kept me
happy in those businesses, atleast, until it no longer
worked.
I've always wanted to recreatethat inside of our own agency,
right?
I want people to, um, reallyenjoy what they do.
(29:40):
The whole idea is, that, it'snot like we're gonna micromanage
you.
We don't have time clocks.
If you need time off, just letus know.
If you want to travel, you wantto be in, you know, the
Philippines, one month and thensomewhere else, uh, another
like, that's fine.
The objective is, are we meetingour goals?
Are we meeting our KPIs?
There is a book that's, that'sin sport inspired, um, by, um,
(30:02):
also.
That's kind of what we tried tobreathe into our business.
Virtually all of our team are,are remote, right?
We have team members all across,you know, the US and the globe.
It's worked really well.
These days it's a lot moreacceptable post COVID, but we've
been doing that, you know, insome extent, even, uh, before
that.
Russel (30:19):
Way to be a pioneer.
What's the book that, uh, thatyou're, you're saying was the
inspiration?
Adam (30:24):
Now I'm blanking.
I think it's just called ROWE orResults Oriented Work
Environment.
I should have looked that upprior.
If you do a search for thatthough, uh, you'll, I'm sure
you'll, you'll be bound to findit.
Russel (30:34):
We put resources on the blog post, and this is a shout
out to our listeners here.
If you come up with it after theepisode, we'll put a link to it
there.
Adam (30:40):
I know Best Buy was experimenting with this, and so
they have some prettyinteresting case studies.
Obviously not for their in-storeemployees, but for a lot of
their corporate.
I don't know if they still dothat today, but I was inspired.
One of the case studiesbasically, if I remember right,
he wanted to be basically, hewas a roadie, I wanna say for
the Dave Matthews band orsomething like that.
They're like, hey, he gets hiswork done, and we don't care
(31:01):
that he's traveling around,around with this, being a roadie
for these bands.
As long as he's getting the jobdone.
I'm like, that's great.
And, and Honestly, like that'salso the biggest part of, or a
very big part of the DNA of ourbusiness.
We're not looking to be thishuge growth business, right?
We're a small boutique agencybut we really want a lifestyle
(31:21):
business.
We want to, to be a company thatour, uh, our staff, our
employees love working for,because that ultimately benefits
our clients.
They see that we, we show up,we're happy to do our work.
An extra spark of, I thinkenergy, that you may not always
get from a large growth agency.
And There's no harm in that.
(31:42):
There are some people thatreally want build a huge growth
company, and that's, that'sgreat.
But you have to go into thisunderstanding, are you gonna be
a lifestyle business or a growthbusiness?
Those two things are notnecessarily the same.
Russel (31:54):
To the whole point back to, again, maybe say fulfillment
and intentionality of this.
What is that and how do thosealign?
I'm optimistic and stillbelieve, and, and we got, we got
a little bit bigger than, thanthe, what you might consider the
boutique.
I think we had around 40 folksand it was always my goal to
say, I believe that if with theright intention and,
authenticity that you can, youcan have a bigger organization
(32:17):
and still, just, just have someof those cultural elements that
you don't have to just become abig corporate machine.
Now, I'm sure, you know, I, Idon't know, part of me, in a
second life wants to go test,like, can, how high can you
scale that?
Can you scale that into thethousands, that idea?
I believe you can, but I, I, Icould see where, um, you just
really have to look at thingsvery differently.
(32:37):
Glad to hear you're out therebeing that place.
I'm so sad that we're having allthis return to work initiatives
through all these, uh,corporations now that, um, we,
we were close to the light andthen they just couldn't handle
the, they couldn't handle it.
Adam (32:52):
I know.
I agree with you.
I think it's kind of a bummer,but, and part of me is like, you
know, rubbing my hands.
I'm like, okay, that's morepeople we can attract to, to
what we do because now we'regonna become the outlier again.
Once again.
Russel (33:04):
That's a good call.
I'll live with that.
Big companies keep doing that.
Return to work.
Great.
Great idea, good policy.
Keep that up.
Awesome.
Got a glimpse of kind of whatthe future looks like for you
and your business and how you'reapproaching this.
Sounds like just morefulfillments, and as you said, a
lifestyle business.
I'll just leave you with onelast big question here, Adam.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
Adam (33:23):
Honestly, I want to say both, but I think they're born
before they're made.
At least from my experience, itwas, it was a spark that was
inside me.
I think I kept it dormant for,uh, way too long.
Once I accepted that, then I hadto work on actually crafting and
making, you know, what thatlooks like in my life.
Maybe it's a cop out.
I'm gonna say a little bit ofboth, but I, I think they have
to be born first and made, madesecond.
Russel (33:42):
No cop out at all.
Like anything, we don't reallylive in a world of absolutes, so
it's always gotta be some, somecombination there.
Great insight.
If people wanna know more aboutEnleaf, where can they go?
Adam (33:52):
We're easy to find, uh, enleaf.com.
It's E-N-L-E-A F dot com.
Otherwise, if you're interestedin connecting with me, I'm, I'm
pretty easy to find.
Just do a quick Google searchfor, for my name.
Happy to connect with you guys.
I'm on basically all thedifferent social media platforms
and so yeah, I'd love to connectand learn more about, uh, about
the listeners.
Russel (34:12):
Perfect.
There you have it folks.
Thank you so much, Adam, fortaking the time outta your
schedule, from working on thebusiness to share some of your
insights and your learnings.
So many great takeaways fromjust the importance of
intentionality, runway and just,you know, the, the perspective
and, and be able to bring toyour business with those
ingredients.
Really appreciate you taking thetime to share that with us
today.
Adam (34:33):
My pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Russel (34:36):
Thank you for listening to An Agency Story podcast where
every story helps you write yourown, subscribe, share, and join
us again for more real stories,lessons learned, and
breakthroughs ahead.
What's next?
You'll want to visit anagencystory.com/podcast and
follow us on Instagram at@anagencystory for the latest
updates.
Adam (34:58):
One of the first clients that we worked with, uh, it was
me and another partner at thetime, and this was be, this was
before we had gone out, uh,before I'd gone out, uh, full
time, right?
We were excited.
We landed our first client as a,as a side hustle, right?
We spent a month or two startingto do an SEO campaign for this
(35:19):
client and lo and behold, uh, werealized that there was, uh, a
no index, uh, option set ontheir website two months in.
Russel (35:28):
Ouch.
Adam (35:29):
Here we're supposed to be helping them get visibility
online.
We're supposed to be the quoteunquote experts and nobody
bothered to check if the sitewas actually indexed in Google.
Man, it was embarrassing.
Now, I'm glad that happenedearly on because now guess
what's the first thing I checkwhenever we take on a new
project?
Russel (35:47):
That's why the first rule of tech support is check
the power button.
Adam (35:50):
The first rule of, uh, uh, of SEO is check if the website's
actually indexing in Google.
Russel (35:57):
Maybe someone else got to hear this today and learned
their lesson from your, fromyour mistake.
Another, um, class in the schoolof hard knocks.
We all gotta take our very heavycourse load in that sense.
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