September 28, 2025 • 34 mins
Financial Clarity and the Creative Journey with Emily Brackett
In this episode Emily Brackett, founder of Visible Logic and Branding Compass, shares how a pivotal moment reshaped the way she runs her business. From building a branding agency rooted in clarity to developing a software tool that helps businesses define their message, Emily’s story is a reminder of adhering to the fundamentals of business.
Inside this episode:
- Why understanding financials is essential for every agency owner
- The surprising statistic Emily uncovered about how few businesses invest in branding
- What she learned from transitioning from freelancer to agency leader
- How innovation with Branding Compass set her agency apart
Details for an agency planning workshop event November 10th and 11th 2025.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Russel (00:01):
Welcome to an agency Story podcast where owners and
experts share the real journey,the early struggles, the
breakthrough moments, andeverything in between.
I'm your host Russel Dubree,former eight figure agency
owner, turn Business coach.
Sold my agency and now helpsagency leaders create their
ideal business.
Every agency has a story, andthis is your front row seat.
(00:23):
This is An Agency Story.
Welcome to the show today,everyone.
I have Emily Bracket withVisible Logic and Branding
Compass with us here today.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday, Emily.
Emily (00:40):
It's great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Russel (00:42):
Well, excited to have you tell us right out of the
gate, what does Visible Logic doand who do you do it for?
Emily (00:49):
Visible logic does brand strategy.
Logo design, visual identitynaming and content based
marketing.
And we focus on B2B companieswith very complex products or
services.
So we often are working withsoftware companies, high tech,
manufacturing.
Those are probably our two mostcommon.
Russel (01:11):
Perfect, wonderful, and all the way up in Portland,
Maine, as I understand, correct?
Emily (01:17):
That is right.
It's a beautiful, small city uphere and, um, it's about two
hours north of Boston.
It's probably closer in thaneverybody expects, but it's a
great quality of life up here.
Russel (01:30):
Okay.
I mean, I've never actually beento the upper Northeast, but I'm
just picturing like the nicecoastal, just like very naturey
and, and stuff like that.
I mean, you said small.
How big is Portland, Maine?
Emily (01:41):
65,000 people.
Russel (01:43):
Okay.
Yeah.
That's too big.
Very small, but
Emily (01:46):
it, it is Maine's biggest city and it feels it's Maine's
Russel (01:49):
biggest city.
Yeah.
What's the capital of Maine?
Uh, Augusta.
Is that Augusta that's biggerthan the capital?
Emily (01:55):
Yeah.
Wow.
And, uh, it has the feeling of amuch bigger city, like it's
world renowned restaurants andit has, you know, a symphony, it
has a theater scene, live music,but yes, very close to all sorts
of, it's right on the coast.
You have the ocean there, youhave lakes an hour away, you've
got the mountains an hour away.
(02:17):
So it's a great location forevery, all those activities.
Russel (02:21):
This is very fascinating to me as a Midwest boy.
I mean, any town I could thinkof around that size there, in no
way.
It has a symphony and all thosethings.
So this is, this is blowing mymind quite a bit actually.
I gotta get up there clearly.
I mean, just sounds beautiful,sounds wonderful, sounds
cultural.
I'll be enriched.
So, uh, one of these days, I'mgonna head up that way.
I definitely want to hear allthe things that you've done in
(02:43):
your agency, but tell us aboutyoung Emily.
Emily (02:46):
Hmm.
Young Emily.
Young Emily was a rule follower.
Probably still am, meaning, youknow, I did well in school
because like if somebody saidthis is what you should do, I
always wanted to do my best.
And so I was pretty successfulin school.
I was pretty successful inathletics.
(03:06):
I did mostly running and somebasketball.
I did arts, um, performing artsand dance and visual arts.
So I had always been interestedin a lot of, you know, different
things and really like.
Graduating from high school,didn't know what I wanted to do.
So I went to a liberal artsschool first.
(03:27):
'cause that seemed like a goodidea.
If you don't know what to do
Russel (03:30):
exactly.
Emily (03:32):
I think just then prolonged that decision for four
more years.
I, four more years later, I'mlike doing well, but still not
knowing what I wanted to do.
Russel (03:42):
Did you get a degree or did you just explore all the
arts?
Emily (03:45):
A degree, yeah.
From Carlton College.
And then I worked for a coupleof years in book publishing and
that's where I interacted withgraphic designers for the first
time.
You know, growing up in the,like the eighties, graphic
design has become much more.
Visible as a field to everydaypeople.
As I had never really heard of agraphic designer when I was in
(04:07):
high school, but I realized itfit me so well.
I did have good visual skillsand um, it has always, well,
depending on what part ofgraphic design you're in, it can
have sort of a business side aswell.
And so that ended up being agreat fit for me.
And so then I went back toschool.
I got another degree at Mass Artin Boston in graphic design.
Russel (04:28):
Okay.
You finally took a hot minute,but it sounds like you found
your track exactly.
I mean, it seems like a goodfit.
You guys shared like, you know,the rule falling some structure,
but also some creativity andreally found a good blend for
yourself.
I can totally appreciate that.
And I guess, where did yourcareer progress from there?
You know, what were theaspirations?
(04:49):
Kind of, we'll get up to thepoint I guess in where you're,
we actually start your agency.
Emily (04:54):
Yeah, I think from the beginning I always envisioned
someday I would have my ownagency, but I did, um, after
graduating, I.
I was in Chicago because of, Ijust had some personal reasons
to be in Chicago and so I livedthere and I worked at several
different agencies there, all insort of the design, marketing, a
(05:19):
little bit of ads, but mostly,um, you know, doing annual
reports, logos.
A lot of printed collateral atthat time.
This is really before websites,so yeah, just worked at several
different agencies in Chicago.
Russel (05:33):
Okay.
Did I hear that correctly?
You said you thought you werethinking entrepreneurial long
before you actually went downthat route.
Emily (05:40):
Yeah, I definitely like when I would go in, whether it
was the companies I worked foror interviewing places, or even
as a student, we would, youknow, hear from different
professionals.
And I did always feel like Icould imagine myself in that
position where I am owning acompany and there's gonna be
(06:01):
some employees, but it was veryvague sort of picture.
But I did feel like someday thatwill be where I would head.
Russel (06:08):
Okay.
Very cool.
Very cool.
Well, I don't know exactly whenit happens, but I understand
there was a unfortunate kick inthe butt that might have
propelled you to actuallystarting the business.
What happened and what did thatlead you to?
Emily (06:21):
Yeah, that's right.
So I mentioned I had worked atthree different agencies before
I started Visible Logic, and Igot laid off at two of the
three, and I, that was ouch.
Surprising to me, I thought.
This is a pretty steady feel.
I could, you know, have jobs aslong as I wanted, uh, which is,
(06:42):
I think was inaccurate.
Like creative agencies tend to,you know, hire and then they
lose a client and they firetheir, you know, so that I was
inaccurate in my perception ofthe, of the world.
But the last, aren't
Russel (06:55):
we all when we're young?
Emily (06:56):
Yeah.
Right.
Who do.
Right.
And, uh, but when I got let go.
The second time, the third job.
And that was, um, the summer of2001.
And if anybody, you know, is oldenough to remember that was
like, you know, the.com bubblehad burst.
It was definitely a recession.
No, like design firms were nothiring.
(07:17):
I.
So I got laid off at thebeginning of the summer and it
was really like that moment oflike, do I even wanna do this?
You know, I was questioningeverything about changing
careers and I did have theluxury of, I was married, my
husband had a job, and I waslike, okay, let's, I'm just
gonna kind of take the summerand just.
(07:38):
Sit back and figure out what Iwanna do next.
And I had gotten intotriathlons, so I always said, oh
boy, okay, I'm gonna set myselfthis goal to do this triathlon.
It was at the very end of thesummer, beginning of September,
and um, a half Ironman, I'd donesome smaller ones.
So I just remember being on thisrunning course, this terrible,
(07:59):
hilly running course inWisconsin, and I was like, man,
if I can do this, I can start myagency.
So I remember that was a Sunday.
I said, I'm gonna do this, andthen Monday I was like, uh, this
is it.
This is the first day I'mstarting my agency.
And then the very next day wasnine 11.
Russel (08:21):
Oh boy.
Okay.
All right.
A lot to unpack here.
I mean, I've certainly heard, Idon't know, like 33% of agencies
got started because somebody gotlaid off.
So that's not necessarily auncommon thing.
But, uh, I love this idea ofthis.
You're, you're trudging up amountain and an Ironman and you
know, we know what, screw it.
I'm gonna do this.
(08:42):
That's, uh, I bet that, I betthat made you run a little
faster.
Emily (08:46):
Oh, right, right.
I got something to do at theend.
Yeah, afterwards and havinglike, there's sort of a
post-race barbecue, and I waslike, yeah, I'm gonna do this.
Russel (08:55):
I can't even imagine.
Um, all right, so you started abusiness and the next day,
September 11th, I mean, what wasgoing through your mind there?
Like, were you already like,oops, maybe this wasn't the
right idea, obviously a lot ofthings going on, but more
resolved you or, or how wouldyou look at that?
Emily (09:11):
Yeah, I mean in many ways it didn't matter.
'cause so little was, I hadnothing to lose'cause I hadn't
built anything yet.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so that was really what mademe think, okay, this shouldn't
be something that's.
Gonna stop me because I haven'tinvested enough in this yet.
So it was certainly a time of,you know, as we all know, a lot
(09:33):
of just emotional and economicuncertainty.
Yeah.
Um, but I knew because of that Iwasn't gonna find a job anyway.
So I found out that time, andthis has changed a little bit,
but I found at that time graphicdesigners especially had.
One of two paths, but you neverdid both.
(09:55):
And I think that's changed now.
I think people do.
I think one path was youfreelance for other design
agencies.
Your clients are the otheragencies.
The other path is you find yourown clients.
And I felt like definitely atthat time in Chicago, it was
very frowned upon to be doingboth because an agency didn't
wanna hire you.
I think now there's much morecrossover.
(10:18):
Um, I don't know if you thinkthat too, if they're, do you
feel like there's crossover?
Those aren't so di, such like adichotomy.
Russel (10:26):
You know, it really, it really seems, it depends on what
somebody's goal.
I mean, some people want to justlive kind of a pure freelancer
life and you know, kind of afreedom almost aspect.
And so I think they definitelywould do more both.
And then the thing I hear isanybody that's right in the
agency space is they're happy tostart out and doing work for
other agencies just to put somefood on the table on that.
(10:47):
But that quickly becomes like,no, you know, I want my own
clients.
I want.
More autonomy, more.
Um, so I, I think it seems tobe, just more of a desirable
thing to focus on their ownclients.
If it's anything more than, Iguess you could say, just
freedom.
Emily (11:00):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So that was, I felt like therewas this choice I had to make
and I said, okay, I'm gonna gofind my own clients.
And so that was the decisionthere is to that.
Yeah.
That made.
Russel (11:13):
Okay.
And then as I understand it, youwere in freelancer mode for a
good long while.
Um, and I mean, was that theintent?
You just were just trying toalso have some freedom and
autonomy and, and bring in somemoney or what was the thought
process?
Emily (11:28):
Yeah, that was absolutely my state of mind then was.
Hey, I wanna get enough moneyto, you know, do what I wanna
do.
I was still very intotriathlons.
I wanted to do actually racetriathlons a bunch all over.
Um, my husband had a prettyflexible job as well.
(11:48):
We didn't have kids yet, so,definitely.
That sounds
Russel (11:51):
amazing, by the way.
I mean, I don't know that Iwanna run a triathlon, but just
the other aspects of justtraveling around and working
and, uh, living the good life.
Emily (12:00):
Yeah, it was a really great way to do that.
And so that worked well forquite a number of years and that
was, you know, I could getenough work in to keep me busy
and, um, earn enough money.
And that worked.
And we lived in Chicago.
I did that in Chicago forseveral years.
We decided for quality of life,we wanted to move to a smaller
(12:21):
city.
We chose Portland, Maine, wemoved here, and I continued to
do that for a while.
Russel (12:28):
Okay.
Okay.
And then you did that until,what?
Like when was the shift to say,I'm pivoting, or I'm doing, I'm,
I'm taking this on a differenttrack.
Emily (12:37):
So when we moved here, I did start to get a little help
from some of these otherfreelancers, and then we did end
up starting a family.
We had two kids four yearsapart.
And it was really when I wascoming back to like.
Okay, I'm done having kids.
I'm like, what's next?
And I thought.
(12:57):
Am I just gonna do this for therest of my life?
I think I'm going to bedisappointed.
And I was hearkening back tothat.
Like, I thought I was gonna belike an agency owner at some
point, and I'm not, I'm just afreelancer.
So that was a big thing.
I was like, okay, I'm not gonnahave a lot of freedom now that I
have kids.
Right?
Yeah.
Right.
We're, we're, we're tied down sowe might as well, uh, move into
(13:20):
that mode.
And so yeah, that was reallylike when my kids.
We're, you know, younger andthen heading to school, I was
like, okay, I'm gonna startgrowing the agency now.
Russel (13:31):
What was step one like that decision comes about?
What does that actually mean?
What was the first step, one ortwo that you did after that?
Emily (13:38):
Yeah, I remember thinking about like somebody giving me
the exercise, uh.
Trying to put together an orgchart, like what is everything
you're doing now?
And then what could you startdelegating out to, like a
different role?
And that was really helpful.
So that was, you know, the firstthing was mostly we did design
(13:58):
work, so I hired anotherdesigner who could take some of
that off and then I.
I've also always done somewriting.
Um, so then it was like, I thinkI wanna find some writing help.
Um, then by this point, websitesare a big thing.
I need a web developer, then Ineed like a project manager or
account manager.
And so that's sort of how itall, and almost all of them
(14:21):
started.
The first person I hired in thatrole was part-time.
And then either they grew intofull-time or.
They left and at some point inthe turnover it became a
full-time thing.
But basically that's how it'sall worked out from there,
Russel (14:35):
step by step, brick by brick.
Emily (14:38):
Yeah.
Flow and steady.
And
Russel (14:39):
then when did you come up with the name?
I don't remember to do this asoften anymore, but I love a good
naming story.
When did the name come about?
Emily (14:47):
The name did come about that first.
The fall, right?
In 2001 when I, so it's beenthat name from the beginning,
because I knew I didn't want itto just be Emily Bracket,
freelance graphic designer.
Russel (15:01):
Mm-hmm.
Emily (15:02):
And also I had worked at so many creative agencies that
were just, you know, bracket andassociates or whatever, and I
was insistent I would not dothat.
And I have always had this ideathat.
I'm not gonna be the person thatyou hire to do.
Like I remember at the time,this is especially, I used this
example a lot.
(15:23):
I'm not gonna be the one whoyou're gonna hire for like a CD
cover, right?
Like super, just reallycreative.
I always was really interestedin communication challenges and
making things that were verydifficult to understand clear.
Using both words and graphics.
That's always been my strength,and so I wanted a name that
suggested that.
(15:43):
So, visible logic.
Um, that fit the bill, and Ihave to say, I, I still like it.
I still get compliments on it.
Um, I don't have any regretsabout that name.
Russel (15:54):
That is actually more unique.
I feel like almost every agencychanged their name at one point
from the origin for manydifferent reasons.
We did it for ours.
Uh, I think our first namelasted about a year and then we
changed.
And um, so, um, so that isunique.
And then it is funny as what yousay, no hate, no shade to anyone
out there by this, but ifanytime I see an agency with a
name in it, I know it's like atleast a 20, 30-year-old agency.
(16:18):
Um, yeah.
'cause now the joke is what youdo in the agency space is you
spin two wheels.
One is a color and one is anadjectives, and you just,
whatever wheel you spin you, youjust merge those together.
Yeah.
Um, but no, there's just alwaysso much fascination behind how
someone thinks about their nameand what it represents and
stands for.
I've lost my sense ofchronology, like this kind of
(16:38):
shift that you were talkingabout, you know, you know,
settling down home life, butwanting to do something more
with your business.
How long ago are we talking?
What year are we at now?
Emily (16:46):
Yeah, so I would say that started in about 2017.
Russel (16:52):
Okay.
All right.
All right.
So the rebirth or therejuvenation is about eight
years old.
And then what we mentioned atthe beginning and haven't talked
a lot about is somewhere alongthe lines you've got branding
Compass.
Yeah.
Tell us about what that is andhow does that fit into all this?
Emily (17:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
Brand Encompass came along kindof side by side with this idea
of growing agency veryspecifically.
I went through the 10,000 smallbusinesses program.
Russel (17:21):
Ah, yes.
Emily (17:22):
Program.
Russel (17:23):
What'd you think of that, by the way?
Not to, not to derail yourstory, but I mean Okay.
It
Emily (17:27):
really, it changed the trajectory of my business, so,
okay.
Um, they have two things theywant you to work on.
One is improving your currentbusiness.
So for me that was.
A lot of.
Fixing the business side ofthings.
They, they had us take this testat the beginning to check your,
like ability to do sort ofaccounting and bookkeeping and,
(17:51):
you know, read cashflow.
Russel (17:52):
It's just like a, a math test or something or like that.
Emily (17:55):
But it was like, you know, reading the profit and
loss and reading the cash flowand all these things.
And I thought going in, I waslike, I know this stuff.
I do like a lot of the stuff inQuickBooks.
I know this stuff.
I got like.
15% or something wanted,
Russel (18:13):
I mean, just what you were saying about your young
self, and I imagine that'scarried through.
This sounds like that's had tobe devastating for you.
Like that Emily, Emily does not,A minus is a bad grade in
Emily's head,
Emily (18:23):
but it put me in the remedial part of, and they
actually, oh
Russel (18:28):
boy, that's a wake up call.
Emily (18:30):
That is.
But see, again, being theoverachiever, I'm like, okay,
now I'm gonna master this.
Like, okay, now I know how toread a profit and loss and I
know how to categorize myexpenses and I know how to quote
a price to make it profitable.
And obviously it's alwaysevolving, but that's the part
that changed the trajectory ofvisible logic.
(18:51):
Instead of being like, I don'tknow, I wanna do this project.
It sounds cool.
And I dunno, here's a price thatliterally I think I just pulled
out of the air.
Um, that's
Russel (19:00):
funny.
Emily (19:01):
The second part of the 10,000 small businesses is what
got me to brand encompass, ifyou want me to talk about that.
Russel (19:08):
Yeah, I want to hear more about that for sure.
And, and I, I just wanted tobring up something that I think
was a really great thing thatyou shared, and I think this is
so critical.
I almost anyone I talk to thatmakes leaps in their business
and growth, they talk about, itwasn't until I got a firm
understanding of the financialsof my business, what they mean,
how they all play together, andall the things that I'm, sounds
like you might've learned inthat program.
(19:29):
So just.
Double stamping how importantthat is.
And, and I hear that quiteoften.
So glad glad you got thatopportunity, even if it, ego a
little bit there to be inremedial class, but yeah.
Tell us then how that kind ofended up parlaying into branding
Compass.
Emily (19:44):
Okay, so they have this one big goal is to improve your
existing business, but they wantyou to come up with some
opportunity to do somethingdifferent and 10,000 businesses
filled with all sorts ofbusinesses, mostly mainstream
type of businesses, or meaningnot like high tech startups.
So people might.
Introduce a new product orservice or location, those types
(20:08):
of things.
And I remember looking at thisgroup of people, so all these
people are like me, like they'vebeen somewhat but not completely
successful with their business.
And I looked around and I wouldtalk to these people and
basically very few of them hadreally invested in branding.
And that was kind of painful forme to see.
(20:30):
I'm thinking, in my mind Ithought, well, pretty much every
business needs like a name and alogo and a website.
So therefore, practically anybusiness out there could hire
visible logic.
In some ways I thought that, butI realized, I was like, wow, out
of these like 200 people who arein my cohort, maybe two, had
paid a branding firm.
Russel (20:52):
Wow.
Emily (20:53):
And I was like, oh my gosh, wait.
This pool is way smaller than Ithought, but the other 198 still
need a name and a logo and awebsite, but they're doing it
somehow on the cheat.
Basically they're, they're,
Russel (21:09):
yeah, the fiber logo.
Emily (21:11):
Fiber logo, the canvas, you know, Squarespace, Wix,
whatever, the kind of thing.
Or a freelancer, veryinexpensive freelancer, their
nephew, that kind of thing.
And what I realized was, okay,that's fine.
Like maybe if you know whatyou're doing.
You could hire those people oruse those tools, but if you
(21:33):
don't like, you can't evenqualify.
Sort of say like, what is yourvalue proposition?
Like that was the part to methat I felt like I could use
technology here and help peoplewith a lot of this foundational
stuff.
And then they can take this andthey can go to whatever, whether
it's a DIY service or a just alow cost freelancer and do it.
(21:55):
So that's a brand encompasses,it helps people.
Clarify their value proposition,clarify their ideal client
profile.
It gives them recommendations oncolors and fonts, the best words
to use, the right messages basedon all this.
And it's just an automatedweb-based software.
Russel (22:14):
Okay.
So I mean, in two ways.
It was really born from thisclass that you had to do
something, you had to have anassignment, and then inspired by
your peers and cohort in theclass.
Emily (22:24):
Yeah.
Russel (22:25):
I like this.
I like this.
I mean, I can honestly say this,and this sounds embarrassing
sometimes, but we were reallybad at branding coming up in,
in, in our agency.
I mean, I think we eventuallygot okay enough, but we were
just building websites.
We were nerds, we were justtrying to spit out websites.
But we probably could have usedthis branding compass in the
early days of our business'causewe just didn't appreciate
(22:46):
branding and that it means morethan just a logo and a website
and a business card but it's allthe things that it sounds like
you're doing for your clients.
I guess I'm curious, I mean, howlong ago was this?
Emily (22:57):
So that was, so I got the idea around that same time, like
2017, but it took Oh, okay.
A long
Russel (23:03):
time
Emily (23:04):
to like.
Build the prototype and thenbuild, like do some customer
discovery and then build, likefind a software developer and
then build an MVP.
And so it really went liketotally live and automated I
think in 2021.
Russel (23:22):
Okay.
Alright.
So it was a little, littlematurity behind it.
I mean, how was that investmentand experiment been for you?
Emily (23:29):
Yeah, it's once it launched there's still like so
much pivoting to find thatproduct market fit.
And um, the past year has beengreat'cause it's finally
starting to get more tractionwith sales.
And we have a couple differentways we use the tool.
One is direct to small businessowner, and so those are mostly
(23:49):
solopreneurs who just go in,they go through it themselves.
We do have.
We have an agency license.
And so those people, they do itlike, so your example, like,
Hey, I'm a website buildingshop, but we don't really know
all this stuff.
And so they use that.
So we find it.
Again, a smaller marketing,maybe a, a solopreneur marketing
(24:12):
person would do it with theirclient.
And then we have started to use,we kind of take some of that
like IP and use it for ourlarger visible logic engagements
because it really takes all ofthe, all of that stuff that
branding firms are kind offamous for.
Like, we're gonna do this like.
(24:33):
Really long discovery time, orwe're gonna have lots of like
focus groups and sessions andit's very amorphous and very
time consuming and veryexpensive.
And this can just shorten itdramatically because people are
giving their input in a way thatwe can examine what a lot of
people said and compare theirresults and really hone in on
(24:57):
like, Hey, you all agree onthis, but you are a lot of
disagreement over here, so let'sjust talk about this.
And it just shortens thatdiscovery phase.
Instead of like months, it'slike weeks.
So that's how we use itinternally with visible logic.
Russel (25:11):
Okay.
I mean, that was gonna be mynext question is, you know, is
it more like you're running thislike a separate business or is
it just a product within VisibleLogic?
How do you think of running twoseparate things like that in
your mind?
Emily (25:23):
This is definitely, it's been a very challenging part of
this is that I bet brandingwise, it has its own name, it
has its own website.
The direct to buyer marketing isvery different than Visible
Logics.
But sometimes, one reason I'vebeen trying to pull it back in
is when I think about visiblelogic, there's a lot of
(25:46):
competition, right?
For what we do and.
When I start thinking, well,what really could make us stand
out?
Well, we have this software thatwe've developed and you come
with work with us.
That discovery phase is moredata-driven and it's faster.
That's like a, ends up becominga good differentiator for
visible logic too.
Russel (26:07):
I love that.
I love that.
I mean that's, I found thatinteresting, honestly.
And you know, I think there's amillion ways we can go about
this whole business thing, sothere's no one right way.
But when you were sharing thatearlier in the small businesses
program that, you know,businesses that are kind of
trying to get their foot.
And grounding in the world orwhatever.
That suggesting something thatsounds like a side hustle is
like, man, I don't know aboutthat entirely.
(26:28):
I mean, I get some of the intentbehind it.
Right.
Some innovation, but I can see alot of times where that ends up
creating two separate businessesand it's hard enough to run one,
it's hard enough to get thefooting for one, but I, I'm glad
it, you've kind of come aroundand after some of that initial
creation phase is how can thesework together and be more
symbiotic than separate?
And it sounds like you've,you've found some good footing
with that in mind.
Emily (26:49):
Yeah, definitely.
Russel (26:52):
Sweet.
So all in all, Was there ever amoment where you're like, you
know what?
And that corporate job didn'tsound so bad?
Emily (26:59):
Yeah.
I can't imagine working forsomebody else.
I remember hitting some lowspot, you know, three years ago
or something, and I was like.
Yeah, what would it be like?
And I guess it was sort of inthe back of my head, and then
somebody I knew said, oh, Iheard about this opening.
(27:19):
Would you be interested inapplying?
And I took a look at the listingand then they were like, okay,
send your resume and coverletter.
I was like, resume What?
I know I, I literally just stopme right there.
Russel (27:39):
You know, that is funny.
And if I'm being honest, I, Iimagine there's a couple points
when I was just like, you knowwhat?
Screw that.
And then, yeah, I didn't have togo too far in the process and
take a phone call or somethinglike that, and you're like,
okay, nevermind.
Yeah, I agree.
I remember, you know, it didn'ttake a lot to remember why, I'm
doing what I'm doing.
So, uh, I can appreciate thathonesty about this is a hard
thing we're doing and, andyou're, I think, you know, not
(28:01):
to say there's some people thatnever question it, but everyone,
I think questions, you know, isthere a better life than this?
But.
It sounds like you've, yes, itis.
Um, what is something you wishyou would've known?
I don't know necessarily go backto the beginning of your
journey, but like, call it a protip for other folks out there.
What is, what is somethingyou're like, Hey man, I really
(28:24):
wish, I really wish I'd haveknown this because this is what
we solved and this is what we'vedone really well.
Emily (28:28):
Hmm.
I think you mentioned itearlier, it's, you gotta know
your numbers, you gotta know thefinances because otherwise it's
just a hobby.
Now you might be pricing thingsin a way that it's a very
lucrative hobby, but you reallyare just going blind with the
whole thing.
Yeah.
So I, yeah, I, I do think yougotta know the numbers.
Russel (28:51):
That's a good way to put it.
It's like driving down a highwaywithout your, if you don't have
your speed on your dashboard,basically on your car.
And what would that, think aboutthat for a second.
What would that feel like todrive down a highway and not see
anything on, on the dashboardLike I think there would be some
crazy things happening on thathighway.
Emily (29:08):
You're probably, just to take that analogy, it's like,
yeah, you might just be lookingaround at other people and what
they're doing.
But they might be making reallybad mistakes and you're just
following in their, you know,'cause that's the thing, like
just in our like, oh, well itseems like everybody else is
charging$500 for a website.
Okay.
It seems like that's what Ishould do.
(29:29):
Right?
I mean, they could be, they havea different business model or a
bad business model.
Russel (29:35):
Yeah, I love this.
If you're the only two cars onthe road, you could be stuck
behind the student driver in theright lane and not have any
context of if they're going theright speed, wrong speed, and
where you're even going.
And it really is so true, and Iget it, you know, I think a lot
of folks, you know, they just,they don't like numbers.
They're more creative and Ithink it's even a thing that's
like, well, let me justoutsource it.
(29:56):
And I say, that's not even thefirst step is you gotta learn
it.
First, you gotta understand it,so you know what you need to
outsource, but we can't.
You just, I think the lessonlearned here is you just can't
ignore it no matter.
No matter how you slice it.
Emily (30:09):
No.
Russel (30:09):
All right.
Great takeaway.
Well, when you think about thefuture, what are you trying to
build here?
What's your 10 year plan?
What's the long-term vision forVisible logic and branding
Compass?
Emily (30:21):
Yeah.
I am feeling the optimism thatthe branding compass can be that
thing that.
Gives us that lift to separateus from other branding firms and
give us a different revenuemodel.
So we have our existing, I, Imean we've got both, uh, revenue
streams right now, but I justwanna keep working on making
(30:43):
them one improves the other.
Russel (30:46):
Yeah.
Keep on going step by step,brick by brick.
Yeah.
Even further.
Emily (30:51):
Yep.
Russel (30:51):
Love that.
Love it.
Well.
Last question then for you,Emily, are entrepreneurs born or
are they made?
Emily (30:59):
I think there's a lot to be said about being born.
Russel (31:03):
Oh, I always get, I always get excited about a good
born answer.
Give it to us.
Emily (31:07):
Yeah.
So my grandfather was definitelyan entrepreneur.
My grandfather died before I wasborn, so I never met him, but he
owned a series of businesses.
I heard about the highs and thelows, like my dad.
Talked about the lows,basically, you know, when he was
(31:27):
a child essentially coming outof the Great Depression and his
dad trying to do these thingsthat didn't pay off.
And then I saw the highs oflike, oh, but he invested in
this real estate and he was ableto do this, et cetera, et
cetera.
And so many of my relatives arejust like, you are so much like
your grandfather, but I nevermet him.
So that's why.
(31:47):
That's crazy.
It's fascinating that, butthat's a, yeah, the relatives
tell me that.
So.
Russel (31:54):
Wow, that's a really good case for a born that I
would understand it a lot more,and I've even heard this from
other folks that grew up in anentrepreneur environment where
they did spend a lot of time ina relative's business but just
to only hear the stories andstill carry those similarities,
that's pretty intriguing.
Very cool.
Well, if people wanna know moreabout Visible Logic, where can
they go?
Emily (32:15):
Visible logic.com.
Russel (32:17):
Easy enough well thank you for sharing that awesome
story today, Emily.
Really appreciate the journeyyou've been on.
So inspired by make, I was aboutto say it was gonna make me
wanna go run an Ironman, butthat's not gonna happen.
But nonetheless, uh, some grit,some pivoting along the way and
um, really, you know, the powerof knowing your numbers can
never reinforce that enough.
(32:38):
Really appreciate you taking thetime to share that with us
today.
Emily (32:40):
Yeah, thank you so much.
This has been fun.
Russel (32:44):
Thank you for listening to an agency story podcast where
every story helps you write yourown, subscribe, share, and join
us again for more real stories,lessons learned, and
breakthroughs ahead.
What's next?
You'll want to visit an agencystory.com/podcast and follow us
on Instagram at an agency storyfor the latest updates.
Emily (33:06):
Even though I've loved Visible Logic's name and I've
gotten a lot of compliments overthe years, many people do not
know how to spell visible.
And so I have registeredV-I-S-A-B-L-E-L-O-G-I-C, and
it's registered.
All of our emails, domaintraffic bounces over because so
(33:28):
many people spell visible wrong.
Russel (33:31):
Yeah.
That is fair.
Um, it only said,'cause you, youspelled, I I think I could spell
visible, but I understand.
Um, I think my spelling does getworse as I get older.
Um, but yeah, we did the samething.
Our company was called LifeBlue.
I think we boughtL-I-F-E-B-L-E-W.
Lesson learned you never knowwhat, how good a speller someone
is on the other side.
So buy all the misspellings ofyour business name as well.
(33:53):
So it's not to take a chance.
Welcome to an agency Story podcast where owners and
experts share the real journey,the early struggles, the
breakthrough moments, andeverything in between.
I'm your host Russel Dubree,former eight figure agency
owner, turn Business coach.
Sold my agency and now helpsagency leaders create their
ideal business.
Every agency has a story, andthis is your front row seat.
(00:23):
This is An Agency Story.
Welcome to the show today,everyone.
I have Emily Bracket withVisible Logic and Branding
Compass with us here today.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday, Emily.
Emily (00:40):
It's great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Russel (00:42):
Well, excited to have you tell us right out of the
gate, what does Visible Logic doand who do you do it for?
Emily (00:49):
Visible logic does brand strategy.
Logo design, visual identitynaming and content based
marketing.
And we focus on B2B companieswith very complex products or
services.
So we often are working withsoftware companies, high tech,
manufacturing.
Those are probably our two mostcommon.
Russel (01:11):
Perfect, wonderful, and all the way up in Portland,
Maine, as I understand, correct?
Emily (01:17):
That is right.
It's a beautiful, small city uphere and, um, it's about two
hours north of Boston.
It's probably closer in thaneverybody expects, but it's a
great quality of life up here.
Russel (01:30):
Okay.
I mean, I've never actually beento the upper Northeast, but I'm
just picturing like the nicecoastal, just like very naturey
and, and stuff like that.
I mean, you said small.
How big is Portland, Maine?
Emily (01:41):
65,000 people.
Russel (01:43):
Okay.
Yeah.
That's too big.
Very small, but
Emily (01:46):
it, it is Maine's biggest city and it feels it's Maine's
Russel (01:49):
biggest city.
Yeah.
What's the capital of Maine?
Uh, Augusta.
Is that Augusta that's biggerthan the capital?
Emily (01:55):
Yeah.
Wow.
And, uh, it has the feeling of amuch bigger city, like it's
world renowned restaurants andit has, you know, a symphony, it
has a theater scene, live music,but yes, very close to all sorts
of, it's right on the coast.
You have the ocean there, youhave lakes an hour away, you've
got the mountains an hour away.
(02:17):
So it's a great location forevery, all those activities.
Russel (02:21):
This is very fascinating to me as a Midwest boy.
I mean, any town I could thinkof around that size there, in no
way.
It has a symphony and all thosethings.
So this is, this is blowing mymind quite a bit actually.
I gotta get up there clearly.
I mean, just sounds beautiful,sounds wonderful, sounds
cultural.
I'll be enriched.
So, uh, one of these days, I'mgonna head up that way.
I definitely want to hear allthe things that you've done in
(02:43):
your agency, but tell us aboutyoung Emily.
Emily (02:46):
Hmm.
Young Emily.
Young Emily was a rule follower.
Probably still am, meaning, youknow, I did well in school
because like if somebody saidthis is what you should do, I
always wanted to do my best.
And so I was pretty successfulin school.
I was pretty successful inathletics.
(03:06):
I did mostly running and somebasketball.
I did arts, um, performing artsand dance and visual arts.
So I had always been interestedin a lot of, you know, different
things and really like.
Graduating from high school,didn't know what I wanted to do.
So I went to a liberal artsschool first.
(03:27):
'cause that seemed like a goodidea.
If you don't know what to do
Russel (03:30):
exactly.
Emily (03:32):
I think just then prolonged that decision for four
more years.
I, four more years later, I'mlike doing well, but still not
knowing what I wanted to do.
Russel (03:42):
Did you get a degree or did you just explore all the
arts?
Emily (03:45):
A degree, yeah.
From Carlton College.
And then I worked for a coupleof years in book publishing and
that's where I interacted withgraphic designers for the first
time.
You know, growing up in the,like the eighties, graphic
design has become much more.
Visible as a field to everydaypeople.
As I had never really heard of agraphic designer when I was in
(04:07):
high school, but I realized itfit me so well.
I did have good visual skillsand um, it has always, well,
depending on what part ofgraphic design you're in, it can
have sort of a business side aswell.
And so that ended up being agreat fit for me.
And so then I went back toschool.
I got another degree at Mass Artin Boston in graphic design.
Russel (04:28):
Okay.
You finally took a hot minute,but it sounds like you found
your track exactly.
I mean, it seems like a goodfit.
You guys shared like, you know,the rule falling some structure,
but also some creativity andreally found a good blend for
yourself.
I can totally appreciate that.
And I guess, where did yourcareer progress from there?
You know, what were theaspirations?
(04:49):
Kind of, we'll get up to thepoint I guess in where you're,
we actually start your agency.
Emily (04:54):
Yeah, I think from the beginning I always envisioned
someday I would have my ownagency, but I did, um, after
graduating, I.
I was in Chicago because of, Ijust had some personal reasons
to be in Chicago and so I livedthere and I worked at several
different agencies there, all insort of the design, marketing, a
(05:19):
little bit of ads, but mostly,um, you know, doing annual
reports, logos.
A lot of printed collateral atthat time.
This is really before websites,so yeah, just worked at several
different agencies in Chicago.
Russel (05:33):
Okay.
Did I hear that correctly?
You said you thought you werethinking entrepreneurial long
before you actually went downthat route.
Emily (05:40):
Yeah, I definitely like when I would go in, whether it
was the companies I worked foror interviewing places, or even
as a student, we would, youknow, hear from different
professionals.
And I did always feel like Icould imagine myself in that
position where I am owning acompany and there's gonna be
(06:01):
some employees, but it was veryvague sort of picture.
But I did feel like someday thatwill be where I would head.
Russel (06:08):
Okay.
Very cool.
Very cool.
Well, I don't know exactly whenit happens, but I understand
there was a unfortunate kick inthe butt that might have
propelled you to actuallystarting the business.
What happened and what did thatlead you to?
Emily (06:21):
Yeah, that's right.
So I mentioned I had worked atthree different agencies before
I started Visible Logic, and Igot laid off at two of the
three, and I, that was ouch.
Surprising to me, I thought.
This is a pretty steady feel.
I could, you know, have jobs aslong as I wanted, uh, which is,
(06:42):
I think was inaccurate.
Like creative agencies tend to,you know, hire and then they
lose a client and they firetheir, you know, so that I was
inaccurate in my perception ofthe, of the world.
But the last, aren't
Russel (06:55):
we all when we're young?
Emily (06:56):
Yeah.
Right.
Who do.
Right.
And, uh, but when I got let go.
The second time, the third job.
And that was, um, the summer of2001.
And if anybody, you know, is oldenough to remember that was
like, you know, the.com bubblehad burst.
It was definitely a recession.
No, like design firms were nothiring.
(07:17):
I.
So I got laid off at thebeginning of the summer and it
was really like that moment oflike, do I even wanna do this?
You know, I was questioningeverything about changing
careers and I did have theluxury of, I was married, my
husband had a job, and I waslike, okay, let's, I'm just
gonna kind of take the summerand just.
(07:38):
Sit back and figure out what Iwanna do next.
And I had gotten intotriathlons, so I always said, oh
boy, okay, I'm gonna set myselfthis goal to do this triathlon.
It was at the very end of thesummer, beginning of September,
and um, a half Ironman, I'd donesome smaller ones.
So I just remember being on thisrunning course, this terrible,
(07:59):
hilly running course inWisconsin, and I was like, man,
if I can do this, I can start myagency.
So I remember that was a Sunday.
I said, I'm gonna do this, andthen Monday I was like, uh, this
is it.
This is the first day I'mstarting my agency.
And then the very next day wasnine 11.
Russel (08:21):
Oh boy.
Okay.
All right.
A lot to unpack here.
I mean, I've certainly heard, Idon't know, like 33% of agencies
got started because somebody gotlaid off.
So that's not necessarily auncommon thing.
But, uh, I love this idea ofthis.
You're, you're trudging up amountain and an Ironman and you
know, we know what, screw it.
I'm gonna do this.
(08:42):
That's, uh, I bet that, I betthat made you run a little
faster.
Emily (08:46):
Oh, right, right.
I got something to do at theend.
Yeah, afterwards and havinglike, there's sort of a
post-race barbecue, and I waslike, yeah, I'm gonna do this.
Russel (08:55):
I can't even imagine.
Um, all right, so you started abusiness and the next day,
September 11th, I mean, what wasgoing through your mind there?
Like, were you already like,oops, maybe this wasn't the
right idea, obviously a lot ofthings going on, but more
resolved you or, or how wouldyou look at that?
Emily (09:11):
Yeah, I mean in many ways it didn't matter.
'cause so little was, I hadnothing to lose'cause I hadn't
built anything yet.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so that was really what mademe think, okay, this shouldn't
be something that's.
Gonna stop me because I haven'tinvested enough in this yet.
So it was certainly a time of,you know, as we all know, a lot
(09:33):
of just emotional and economicuncertainty.
Yeah.
Um, but I knew because of that Iwasn't gonna find a job anyway.
So I found out that time, andthis has changed a little bit,
but I found at that time graphicdesigners especially had.
One of two paths, but you neverdid both.
(09:55):
And I think that's changed now.
I think people do.
I think one path was youfreelance for other design
agencies.
Your clients are the otheragencies.
The other path is you find yourown clients.
And I felt like definitely atthat time in Chicago, it was
very frowned upon to be doingboth because an agency didn't
wanna hire you.
I think now there's much morecrossover.
(10:18):
Um, I don't know if you thinkthat too, if they're, do you
feel like there's crossover?
Those aren't so di, such like adichotomy.
Russel (10:26):
You know, it really, it really seems, it depends on what
somebody's goal.
I mean, some people want to justlive kind of a pure freelancer
life and you know, kind of afreedom almost aspect.
And so I think they definitelywould do more both.
And then the thing I hear isanybody that's right in the
agency space is they're happy tostart out and doing work for
other agencies just to put somefood on the table on that.
(10:47):
But that quickly becomes like,no, you know, I want my own
clients.
I want.
More autonomy, more.
Um, so I, I think it seems tobe, just more of a desirable
thing to focus on their ownclients.
If it's anything more than, Iguess you could say, just
freedom.
Emily (11:00):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So that was, I felt like therewas this choice I had to make
and I said, okay, I'm gonna gofind my own clients.
And so that was the decisionthere is to that.
Yeah.
That made.
Russel (11:13):
Okay.
And then as I understand it, youwere in freelancer mode for a
good long while.
Um, and I mean, was that theintent?
You just were just trying toalso have some freedom and
autonomy and, and bring in somemoney or what was the thought
process?
Emily (11:28):
Yeah, that was absolutely my state of mind then was.
Hey, I wanna get enough moneyto, you know, do what I wanna
do.
I was still very intotriathlons.
I wanted to do actually racetriathlons a bunch all over.
Um, my husband had a prettyflexible job as well.
(11:48):
We didn't have kids yet, so,definitely.
That sounds
Russel (11:51):
amazing, by the way.
I mean, I don't know that Iwanna run a triathlon, but just
the other aspects of justtraveling around and working
and, uh, living the good life.
Emily (12:00):
Yeah, it was a really great way to do that.
And so that worked well forquite a number of years and that
was, you know, I could getenough work in to keep me busy
and, um, earn enough money.
And that worked.
And we lived in Chicago.
I did that in Chicago forseveral years.
We decided for quality of life,we wanted to move to a smaller
(12:21):
city.
We chose Portland, Maine, wemoved here, and I continued to
do that for a while.
Russel (12:28):
Okay.
Okay.
And then you did that until,what?
Like when was the shift to say,I'm pivoting, or I'm doing, I'm,
I'm taking this on a differenttrack.
Emily (12:37):
So when we moved here, I did start to get a little help
from some of these otherfreelancers, and then we did end
up starting a family.
We had two kids four yearsapart.
And it was really when I wascoming back to like.
Okay, I'm done having kids.
I'm like, what's next?
And I thought.
(12:57):
Am I just gonna do this for therest of my life?
I think I'm going to bedisappointed.
And I was hearkening back tothat.
Like, I thought I was gonna belike an agency owner at some
point, and I'm not, I'm just afreelancer.
So that was a big thing.
I was like, okay, I'm not gonnahave a lot of freedom now that I
have kids.
Right?
Yeah.
Right.
We're, we're, we're tied down sowe might as well, uh, move into
(13:20):
that mode.
And so yeah, that was reallylike when my kids.
We're, you know, younger andthen heading to school, I was
like, okay, I'm gonna startgrowing the agency now.
Russel (13:31):
What was step one like that decision comes about?
What does that actually mean?
What was the first step, one ortwo that you did after that?
Emily (13:38):
Yeah, I remember thinking about like somebody giving me
the exercise, uh.
Trying to put together an orgchart, like what is everything
you're doing now?
And then what could you startdelegating out to, like a
different role?
And that was really helpful.
So that was, you know, the firstthing was mostly we did design
(13:58):
work, so I hired anotherdesigner who could take some of
that off and then I.
I've also always done somewriting.
Um, so then it was like, I thinkI wanna find some writing help.
Um, then by this point, websitesare a big thing.
I need a web developer, then Ineed like a project manager or
account manager.
And so that's sort of how itall, and almost all of them
(14:21):
started.
The first person I hired in thatrole was part-time.
And then either they grew intofull-time or.
They left and at some point inthe turnover it became a
full-time thing.
But basically that's how it'sall worked out from there,
Russel (14:35):
step by step, brick by brick.
Emily (14:38):
Yeah.
Flow and steady.
And
Russel (14:39):
then when did you come up with the name?
I don't remember to do this asoften anymore, but I love a good
naming story.
When did the name come about?
Emily (14:47):
The name did come about that first.
The fall, right?
In 2001 when I, so it's beenthat name from the beginning,
because I knew I didn't want itto just be Emily Bracket,
freelance graphic designer.
Russel (15:01):
Mm-hmm.
Emily (15:02):
And also I had worked at so many creative agencies that
were just, you know, bracket andassociates or whatever, and I
was insistent I would not dothat.
And I have always had this ideathat.
I'm not gonna be the person thatyou hire to do.
Like I remember at the time,this is especially, I used this
example a lot.
(15:23):
I'm not gonna be the one whoyou're gonna hire for like a CD
cover, right?
Like super, just reallycreative.
I always was really interestedin communication challenges and
making things that were verydifficult to understand clear.
Using both words and graphics.
That's always been my strength,and so I wanted a name that
suggested that.
(15:43):
So, visible logic.
Um, that fit the bill, and Ihave to say, I, I still like it.
I still get compliments on it.
Um, I don't have any regretsabout that name.
Russel (15:54):
That is actually more unique.
I feel like almost every agencychanged their name at one point
from the origin for manydifferent reasons.
We did it for ours.
Uh, I think our first namelasted about a year and then we
changed.
And um, so, um, so that isunique.
And then it is funny as what yousay, no hate, no shade to anyone
out there by this, but ifanytime I see an agency with a
name in it, I know it's like atleast a 20, 30-year-old agency.
(16:18):
Um, yeah.
'cause now the joke is what youdo in the agency space is you
spin two wheels.
One is a color and one is anadjectives, and you just,
whatever wheel you spin you, youjust merge those together.
Yeah.
Um, but no, there's just alwaysso much fascination behind how
someone thinks about their nameand what it represents and
stands for.
I've lost my sense ofchronology, like this kind of
(16:38):
shift that you were talkingabout, you know, you know,
settling down home life, butwanting to do something more
with your business.
How long ago are we talking?
What year are we at now?
Emily (16:46):
Yeah, so I would say that started in about 2017.
Russel (16:52):
Okay.
All right.
All right.
So the rebirth or therejuvenation is about eight
years old.
And then what we mentioned atthe beginning and haven't talked
a lot about is somewhere alongthe lines you've got branding
Compass.
Yeah.
Tell us about what that is andhow does that fit into all this?
Emily (17:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
Brand Encompass came along kindof side by side with this idea
of growing agency veryspecifically.
I went through the 10,000 smallbusinesses program.
Russel (17:21):
Ah, yes.
Emily (17:22):
Program.
Russel (17:23):
What'd you think of that, by the way?
Not to, not to derail yourstory, but I mean Okay.
It
Emily (17:27):
really, it changed the trajectory of my business, so,
okay.
Um, they have two things theywant you to work on.
One is improving your currentbusiness.
So for me that was.
A lot of.
Fixing the business side ofthings.
They, they had us take this testat the beginning to check your,
like ability to do sort ofaccounting and bookkeeping and,
(17:51):
you know, read cashflow.
Russel (17:52):
It's just like a, a math test or something or like that.
Emily (17:55):
But it was like, you know, reading the profit and
loss and reading the cash flowand all these things.
And I thought going in, I waslike, I know this stuff.
I do like a lot of the stuff inQuickBooks.
I know this stuff.
I got like.
15% or something wanted,
Russel (18:13):
I mean, just what you were saying about your young
self, and I imagine that'scarried through.
This sounds like that's had tobe devastating for you.
Like that Emily, Emily does not,A minus is a bad grade in
Emily's head,
Emily (18:23):
but it put me in the remedial part of, and they
actually, oh
Russel (18:28):
boy, that's a wake up call.
Emily (18:30):
That is.
But see, again, being theoverachiever, I'm like, okay,
now I'm gonna master this.
Like, okay, now I know how toread a profit and loss and I
know how to categorize myexpenses and I know how to quote
a price to make it profitable.
And obviously it's alwaysevolving, but that's the part
that changed the trajectory ofvisible logic.
(18:51):
Instead of being like, I don'tknow, I wanna do this project.
It sounds cool.
And I dunno, here's a price thatliterally I think I just pulled
out of the air.
Um, that's
Russel (19:00):
funny.
Emily (19:01):
The second part of the 10,000 small businesses is what
got me to brand encompass, ifyou want me to talk about that.
Russel (19:08):
Yeah, I want to hear more about that for sure.
And, and I, I just wanted tobring up something that I think
was a really great thing thatyou shared, and I think this is
so critical.
I almost anyone I talk to thatmakes leaps in their business
and growth, they talk about, itwasn't until I got a firm
understanding of the financialsof my business, what they mean,
how they all play together, andall the things that I'm, sounds
like you might've learned inthat program.
(19:29):
So just.
Double stamping how importantthat is.
And, and I hear that quiteoften.
So glad glad you got thatopportunity, even if it, ego a
little bit there to be inremedial class, but yeah.
Tell us then how that kind ofended up parlaying into branding
Compass.
Emily (19:44):
Okay, so they have this one big goal is to improve your
existing business, but they wantyou to come up with some
opportunity to do somethingdifferent and 10,000 businesses
filled with all sorts ofbusinesses, mostly mainstream
type of businesses, or meaningnot like high tech startups.
So people might.
Introduce a new product orservice or location, those types
(20:08):
of things.
And I remember looking at thisgroup of people, so all these
people are like me, like they'vebeen somewhat but not completely
successful with their business.
And I looked around and I wouldtalk to these people and
basically very few of them hadreally invested in branding.
And that was kind of painful forme to see.
(20:30):
I'm thinking, in my mind Ithought, well, pretty much every
business needs like a name and alogo and a website.
So therefore, practically anybusiness out there could hire
visible logic.
In some ways I thought that, butI realized, I was like, wow, out
of these like 200 people who arein my cohort, maybe two, had
paid a branding firm.
Russel (20:52):
Wow.
Emily (20:53):
And I was like, oh my gosh, wait.
This pool is way smaller than Ithought, but the other 198 still
need a name and a logo and awebsite, but they're doing it
somehow on the cheat.
Basically they're, they're,
Russel (21:09):
yeah, the fiber logo.
Emily (21:11):
Fiber logo, the canvas, you know, Squarespace, Wix,
whatever, the kind of thing.
Or a freelancer, veryinexpensive freelancer, their
nephew, that kind of thing.
And what I realized was, okay,that's fine.
Like maybe if you know whatyou're doing.
You could hire those people oruse those tools, but if you
(21:33):
don't like, you can't evenqualify.
Sort of say like, what is yourvalue proposition?
Like that was the part to methat I felt like I could use
technology here and help peoplewith a lot of this foundational
stuff.
And then they can take this andthey can go to whatever, whether
it's a DIY service or a just alow cost freelancer and do it.
(21:55):
So that's a brand encompasses,it helps people.
Clarify their value proposition,clarify their ideal client
profile.
It gives them recommendations oncolors and fonts, the best words
to use, the right messages basedon all this.
And it's just an automatedweb-based software.
Russel (22:14):
Okay.
So I mean, in two ways.
It was really born from thisclass that you had to do
something, you had to have anassignment, and then inspired by
your peers and cohort in theclass.
Emily (22:24):
Yeah.
Russel (22:25):
I like this.
I like this.
I mean, I can honestly say this,and this sounds embarrassing
sometimes, but we were reallybad at branding coming up in,
in, in our agency.
I mean, I think we eventuallygot okay enough, but we were
just building websites.
We were nerds, we were justtrying to spit out websites.
But we probably could have usedthis branding compass in the
early days of our business'causewe just didn't appreciate
(22:46):
branding and that it means morethan just a logo and a website
and a business card but it's allthe things that it sounds like
you're doing for your clients.
I guess I'm curious, I mean, howlong ago was this?
Emily (22:57):
So that was, so I got the idea around that same time, like
2017, but it took Oh, okay.
A long
Russel (23:03):
time
Emily (23:04):
to like.
Build the prototype and thenbuild, like do some customer
discovery and then build, likefind a software developer and
then build an MVP.
And so it really went liketotally live and automated I
think in 2021.
Russel (23:22):
Okay.
Alright.
So it was a little, littlematurity behind it.
I mean, how was that investmentand experiment been for you?
Emily (23:29):
Yeah, it's once it launched there's still like so
much pivoting to find thatproduct market fit.
And um, the past year has beengreat'cause it's finally
starting to get more tractionwith sales.
And we have a couple differentways we use the tool.
One is direct to small businessowner, and so those are mostly
(23:49):
solopreneurs who just go in,they go through it themselves.
We do have.
We have an agency license.
And so those people, they do itlike, so your example, like,
Hey, I'm a website buildingshop, but we don't really know
all this stuff.
And so they use that.
So we find it.
Again, a smaller marketing,maybe a, a solopreneur marketing
(24:12):
person would do it with theirclient.
And then we have started to use,we kind of take some of that
like IP and use it for ourlarger visible logic engagements
because it really takes all ofthe, all of that stuff that
branding firms are kind offamous for.
Like, we're gonna do this like.
(24:33):
Really long discovery time, orwe're gonna have lots of like
focus groups and sessions andit's very amorphous and very
time consuming and veryexpensive.
And this can just shorten itdramatically because people are
giving their input in a way thatwe can examine what a lot of
people said and compare theirresults and really hone in on
(24:57):
like, Hey, you all agree onthis, but you are a lot of
disagreement over here, so let'sjust talk about this.
And it just shortens thatdiscovery phase.
Instead of like months, it'slike weeks.
So that's how we use itinternally with visible logic.
Russel (25:11):
Okay.
I mean, that was gonna be mynext question is, you know, is
it more like you're running thislike a separate business or is
it just a product within VisibleLogic?
How do you think of running twoseparate things like that in
your mind?
Emily (25:23):
This is definitely, it's been a very challenging part of
this is that I bet brandingwise, it has its own name, it
has its own website.
The direct to buyer marketing isvery different than Visible
Logics.
But sometimes, one reason I'vebeen trying to pull it back in
is when I think about visiblelogic, there's a lot of
(25:46):
competition, right?
For what we do and.
When I start thinking, well,what really could make us stand
out?
Well, we have this software thatwe've developed and you come
with work with us.
That discovery phase is moredata-driven and it's faster.
That's like a, ends up becominga good differentiator for
visible logic too.
Russel (26:07):
I love that.
I love that.
I mean that's, I found thatinteresting, honestly.
And you know, I think there's amillion ways we can go about
this whole business thing, sothere's no one right way.
But when you were sharing thatearlier in the small businesses
program that, you know,businesses that are kind of
trying to get their foot.
And grounding in the world orwhatever.
That suggesting something thatsounds like a side hustle is
like, man, I don't know aboutthat entirely.
(26:28):
I mean, I get some of the intentbehind it.
Right.
Some innovation, but I can see alot of times where that ends up
creating two separate businessesand it's hard enough to run one,
it's hard enough to get thefooting for one, but I, I'm glad
it, you've kind of come aroundand after some of that initial
creation phase is how can thesework together and be more
symbiotic than separate?
And it sounds like you've,you've found some good footing
with that in mind.
Emily (26:49):
Yeah, definitely.
Russel (26:52):
Sweet.
So all in all, Was there ever amoment where you're like, you
know what?
And that corporate job didn'tsound so bad?
Emily (26:59):
Yeah.
I can't imagine working forsomebody else.
I remember hitting some lowspot, you know, three years ago
or something, and I was like.
Yeah, what would it be like?
And I guess it was sort of inthe back of my head, and then
somebody I knew said, oh, Iheard about this opening.
(27:19):
Would you be interested inapplying?
And I took a look at the listingand then they were like, okay,
send your resume and coverletter.
I was like, resume What?
I know I, I literally just stopme right there.
Russel (27:39):
You know, that is funny.
And if I'm being honest, I, Iimagine there's a couple points
when I was just like, you knowwhat?
Screw that.
And then, yeah, I didn't have togo too far in the process and
take a phone call or somethinglike that, and you're like,
okay, nevermind.
Yeah, I agree.
I remember, you know, it didn'ttake a lot to remember why, I'm
doing what I'm doing.
So, uh, I can appreciate thathonesty about this is a hard
thing we're doing and, andyou're, I think, you know, not
(28:01):
to say there's some people thatnever question it, but everyone,
I think questions, you know, isthere a better life than this?
But.
It sounds like you've, yes, itis.
Um, what is something you wishyou would've known?
I don't know necessarily go backto the beginning of your
journey, but like, call it a protip for other folks out there.
What is, what is somethingyou're like, Hey man, I really
(28:24):
wish, I really wish I'd haveknown this because this is what
we solved and this is what we'vedone really well.
Emily (28:28):
Hmm.
I think you mentioned itearlier, it's, you gotta know
your numbers, you gotta know thefinances because otherwise it's
just a hobby.
Now you might be pricing thingsin a way that it's a very
lucrative hobby, but you reallyare just going blind with the
whole thing.
Yeah.
So I, yeah, I, I do think yougotta know the numbers.
Russel (28:51):
That's a good way to put it.
It's like driving down a highwaywithout your, if you don't have
your speed on your dashboard,basically on your car.
And what would that, think aboutthat for a second.
What would that feel like todrive down a highway and not see
anything on, on the dashboardLike I think there would be some
crazy things happening on thathighway.
Emily (29:08):
You're probably, just to take that analogy, it's like,
yeah, you might just be lookingaround at other people and what
they're doing.
But they might be making reallybad mistakes and you're just
following in their, you know,'cause that's the thing, like
just in our like, oh, well itseems like everybody else is
charging$500 for a website.
Okay.
It seems like that's what Ishould do.
(29:29):
Right?
I mean, they could be, they havea different business model or a
bad business model.
Russel (29:35):
Yeah, I love this.
If you're the only two cars onthe road, you could be stuck
behind the student driver in theright lane and not have any
context of if they're going theright speed, wrong speed, and
where you're even going.
And it really is so true, and Iget it, you know, I think a lot
of folks, you know, they just,they don't like numbers.
They're more creative and Ithink it's even a thing that's
like, well, let me justoutsource it.
(29:56):
And I say, that's not even thefirst step is you gotta learn
it.
First, you gotta understand it,so you know what you need to
outsource, but we can't.
You just, I think the lessonlearned here is you just can't
ignore it no matter.
No matter how you slice it.
Emily (30:09):
No.
Russel (30:09):
All right.
Great takeaway.
Well, when you think about thefuture, what are you trying to
build here?
What's your 10 year plan?
What's the long-term vision forVisible logic and branding
Compass?
Emily (30:21):
Yeah.
I am feeling the optimism thatthe branding compass can be that
thing that.
Gives us that lift to separateus from other branding firms and
give us a different revenuemodel.
So we have our existing, I, Imean we've got both, uh, revenue
streams right now, but I justwanna keep working on making
(30:43):
them one improves the other.
Russel (30:46):
Yeah.
Keep on going step by step,brick by brick.
Yeah.
Even further.
Emily (30:51):
Yep.
Russel (30:51):
Love that.
Love it.
Well.
Last question then for you,Emily, are entrepreneurs born or
are they made?
Emily (30:59):
I think there's a lot to be said about being born.
Russel (31:03):
Oh, I always get, I always get excited about a good
born answer.
Give it to us.
Emily (31:07):
Yeah.
So my grandfather was definitelyan entrepreneur.
My grandfather died before I wasborn, so I never met him, but he
owned a series of businesses.
I heard about the highs and thelows, like my dad.
Talked about the lows,basically, you know, when he was
(31:27):
a child essentially coming outof the Great Depression and his
dad trying to do these thingsthat didn't pay off.
And then I saw the highs oflike, oh, but he invested in
this real estate and he was ableto do this, et cetera, et
cetera.
And so many of my relatives arejust like, you are so much like
your grandfather, but I nevermet him.
So that's why.
(31:47):
That's crazy.
It's fascinating that, butthat's a, yeah, the relatives
tell me that.
So.
Russel (31:54):
Wow, that's a really good case for a born that I
would understand it a lot more,and I've even heard this from
other folks that grew up in anentrepreneur environment where
they did spend a lot of time ina relative's business but just
to only hear the stories andstill carry those similarities,
that's pretty intriguing.
Very cool.
Well, if people wanna know moreabout Visible Logic, where can
they go?
Emily (32:15):
Visible logic.com.
Russel (32:17):
Easy enough well thank you for sharing that awesome
story today, Emily.
Really appreciate the journeyyou've been on.
So inspired by make, I was aboutto say it was gonna make me
wanna go run an Ironman, butthat's not gonna happen.
But nonetheless, uh, some grit,some pivoting along the way and
um, really, you know, the powerof knowing your numbers can
never reinforce that enough.
(32:38):
Really appreciate you taking thetime to share that with us
today.
Emily (32:40):
Yeah, thank you so much.
This has been fun.
Russel (32:44):
Thank you for listening to an agency story podcast where
every story helps you write yourown, subscribe, share, and join
us again for more real stories,lessons learned, and
breakthroughs ahead.
What's next?
You'll want to visit an agencystory.com/podcast and follow us
on Instagram at an agency storyfor the latest updates.
Emily (33:06):
Even though I've loved Visible Logic's name and I've
gotten a lot of compliments overthe years, many people do not
know how to spell visible.
And so I have registeredV-I-S-A-B-L-E-L-O-G-I-C, and
it's registered.
All of our emails, domaintraffic bounces over because so
(33:28):
many people spell visible wrong.
Russel (33:31):
Yeah.
That is fair.
Um, it only said,'cause you, youspelled, I I think I could spell
visible, but I understand.
Um, I think my spelling does getworse as I get older.
Um, but yeah, we did the samething.
Our company was called LifeBlue.
I think we boughtL-I-F-E-B-L-E-W.
Lesson learned you never knowwhat, how good a speller someone
is on the other side.
So buy all the misspellings ofyour business name as well.
(33:53):
So it's not to take a chance.
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