July 31, 2025 • 66 mins
In this inspiring episode of And Now Love, Cynthia Marks sits down with Shirley Torres, Co-Executive Chief Officer at Homeboy Industries — the world’s largest gang rehabilitation and reentry program. With decades of experience in community healing, Shirley shares how she helps formerly incarcerated individuals find dignity, purpose, and transformation through connection, compassion, and care. She speaks candidly about the importance of listening without judgment, creating spaces where people feel safe to be seen, and honoring the humanity behind every wound. Shirley reflects on the spiritual foundation of her work, the influence of Father Greg Boyle, and why love — not punishment — is the most powerful agent of change. This episode is a profound look into how one woman leads with her heart and helps others reclaim theirs.
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(00:04):
Hi, I'm Cynthia Marksand I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis
Foundation established by my latehusband, Doctor Bernard Bail.
The fabulous doctor Bernard Bail.
Welcome to And Now Love.
Shirley Torres is here with us today.
I'm really excited.
Along with Steve Delgado,Shirley is a co-chief executive officer
(00:29):
at Homeboy Industries.
Before we divein, I'd like to share a little bit
about Homeboy Industriesas you may not have heard of them.
After our conversation,you're going to be as excited
about the whole idea as I am.
In 1986, when Homeboy Industriesfounder Gregory Boyle
(00:50):
became pastor of Dolores Mission Church.
It was the poorestCatholic parish in Los Angeles.
The parish includedAliso Village and Pico Gardens.
Then the largest public housing
projects west of the Mississippi.
They also had the highest concentrationof gang activity.
(01:15):
That was saying something, given Los
Angeles has a reputationas the gang capital of the world.
At the
time,law enforcement tactics of suppression
and criminal justicepolicies of mass incarceration
were the prevailing meansto deal with gang violence.
(01:36):
But where others only sawcriminals, Father
Greg saw people in need of help.
Today, Homeboy Industriesis the largest gang intervention,
rehabilitationand reentry program in the world.
Welcoming thousands to their doorseach year.
(01:57):
Each year, Homeboy Industrieswelcomes thousands of people
through their doors,seeking to transform their lives.
Whether joining the 18 monthEmployment and Reentry Program or seeking
discreet services such as tattoo removal
or substance abuse resources.
Their participants are embraced
(02:17):
by a community of kinshipand offered a variety
of free wraparound servicesto facilitate healing and growth.
Shirley was raised in South Los Angeles,a neighborhood populated by violence,
drugs, and gangs, and knowsfirsthand the structural barriers
(02:38):
and challengesfacing urban youth and their futures.
Shirley graduated from UCLA,
becoming the first in her familyto earn a college degree.
She has also completed a master's degreein social work
at the University of Southern California.
She focused her studies in community
(02:59):
organization and public administration.
Her commitmentto building communities of support
for those least likely to succeedis exemplified
in her heartfeltdevotion to Homeboy Industries.
That was a lot.
There's so much to talk aboutand thank you so much for being here.
(03:22):
Thank you for having me.
You're so, so busy,and we're just thrilled
that you took some time to talk with us.
And I have so many questions.
I think many of us don't know a whole lotabout what
Homeboy Industries is, how it operates,
all the little fingers and tentaclesand how far reaching it is,
(03:42):
and then also how it's supported,you know,
how do you manage to keep moving on
with all of your programsand grow and grow and grow?
So, so first, how did you get involvedwith this fabulous organization?
I just want to say, it's really,my life's honor and privilege
(04:03):
to pay attention to some of the doorsat Homeboy Industries.
I first walked through the doorand was welcomed with a smile and love.
The palpable love that everyone can feelwhen they walk through.
22 years ago, I looking back
now, I can say I was a kid myselfand it was really my first job.
(04:23):
I went to Homeboy Industries looking fora job, and I found my life purpose.
And how did you select Homeboy Industries?
I would sayI didn't select Homeboy Industries.
I would say coming to HomeboyIndustries was was my calling.
It selected you.
Yeah.
And in many waysyou know I was looking to always
(04:46):
serve my communityand work with people on the margins.
And I really was lookingto make a difference.
And to be honest I the time HomeboyIndustries slogan was jobs not jails.
And while I was,you know, really interested in
and doing some of the work, I myselfdidn't know a lot about Father Greg
and his mission and visionand the culture of homeboy,
(05:09):
which has transformed my lifein many ways.
How fortunate for you and for allthe people that you work with and serve.
So what was Father Boyle'sinitial mission?
I would say that, you know,
I always tell people like HomeboyIndustries really began with a prayer,
a prayer that really was about
(05:30):
inviting people to a whole new life.
And opportunity to stop chasing death.
Gang members will never say,they're suicidal.
Gang members will choose violence
because there's a part of themthat's been bombarded by a kind of trauma
that that doesn't allow them to see thata future is possible.
(05:52):
Father Greg has taught me, andand the people of homeboy have raised me
to really understandthat choices are created equal.
And, young people don't choosegang membership.
In so many ways.
It's about a life of survival,and it's about belonging.
Hopeful kids don't join gangs.
It's this lethal absence of hope.
But Homeboy Industrieswas really born out of,
(06:16):
a way to try to solve and honor
the idea that every life matters
and that those that are at the marginswere worthy of a different kind of life.
And so I would say HomeboyIndustries really is designed and set up
to deliver hope at the crossroads of lifeand death for folks that are chasing it.
(06:38):
And it's really about an invitation, about
imagining that there could be more choices
and chancesand that no matter what, neighborhood
or zip code you're born into,that your future shouldn't depend on that.
I don't know that all of us have everreally thought about what it takes
for someone to join a gang, like whatyou just said was really fascinating.
(07:03):
And to that, though,how how did Father Boyle
get a foot in the doorin terms of being able to show somebody
another pathwhen all they likely have known
is some form of fear or violence
or mistrust or lack of love?
How did he begin to open people's eyes?
(07:27):
I think presence and a commitmentto be with
and proximity and build in relationships,seeing past
behavior seen gang membersnot for what they were doing,
but for what was underneath that,which again, was a lethal absence of hope.
And so I think Father Gregwas in community with them
(07:49):
and inviting them with his parish
to really think about a solution, about
how do we offer hope for the hopeless.
And the truth is, he leaned inand he leaned in and listened.
And I remember one of the things he sharedis he asked
gang members, what do you thinkyou need to change your life?
(08:11):
And the firstthing they said was a school.
And so they rolled up their
sleeves as a communityand they built a school together.
They, the gang membersand Father Boyle and his volunteers.
I suppose that I would saythe mothers of the parish were really
the change makersthat, together with Father Greg,
really demanded a different pathfor their children.
(08:35):
And so together they really thought aboutnot just schools, but jobs.
And jobs for the future became the firstslogan under which homeboy was born,
which was the idea of gang membershaving a reason
to get up in the morning and a reasonnot to gang bang the night before.
Purposeful activity.
And then working side by side peoplethey'd consider enemies.
(08:57):
And so, so much of what homeboy is aboutis about challenging
the notion of enemy and other,and that through kinship
and through working together,that we'd actually build connection
and that we would see thatwe're more alike than we are different.
Scary for a lot of peopleto enter into a scenario like that.
(09:20):
It requires so much courage. Yes.
And I don't think in my 22 yearsof paying attention
to a single doorthat I've met more resilient
and more courageousand brave human beings in my life.
It's the reason I admire,and I've met some of my heroes
who've come through those doors
(09:40):
because it
requires a kind of commitmentto keep getting up,
to stop running from some of the things
that were not your choice,and to say that the things
that you experience, the traumathat you experience,
the things that happen toyou don't define you.
And it requires human companionship.
(10:01):
And that's what homeboy is about.
Well, it's amazing that you say thatbecause that's
what we speak to all the time,is that you are not the trauma
that you carry, not the traumathat's been put upon you.
And we maneuver through lifecarrying that heavy weight.
Unless we can come to terms with it,
(10:21):
figure it outand figure out ways to let it go.
And once you let that trauma go,
you can operate from your true self,which is probably a thing
full of love and compassionand empathy for others.
And I think if we as individuals,
(10:42):
all take care of that within ourselvesand find that
that inner joy and love ourselves,you can't help but bring others up.
Even those who may not,for whatever reason,
have the ability to undo the trauma,don't know they have the trauma.
But just by this example
(11:05):
or exuding these feelings, it'sgoing to spread itself
in the communities that you take part in.
And you can really feel that.
You mentioned this earlier at homeboywhen you I've only been there
once, and I can't waitto go back about 375 times.
But when you go in there,people look you in the eyes.
(11:27):
They're smiling, they're gracious.
It's it's. As if.
Everyone is so proudto be their best self.
It's a culture that is, intentional
and requiresboth urgency and patience in this work.
You know, to love is, is to
(11:49):
to ask people for permissionto walk with them in this journey
and to hold each other,and to also see the connection
that we have that are healingand wholeness is connected to each other.
And so as much as I'm thereand as much as we're there as a container
to receive peoplewho've never been received in community
to hold up the mirrorand to say everything
(12:12):
you need to succeedyou were already born with, you're worthy.
Those messages require us to also be ableto believe in the exquisite
mutuality of the work, that our healingis connected to each other,
and that in that exchangeand in that relationship, there is a
deeper kind of hosting that also servesme and makes me a better person.
(12:35):
And that's how we build communitiesthat are healthy and whole
and that speak another language.
For as much as I'm really,
proud of all the resourcesand the one stop shops that we offer,
I mean, everything that someone may needto change the arc of their life.
Every resource,everything, every barrier is,
(12:56):
is removed in this, in the designof our programing, our model.
But I think what makes us differentis really the approach.
And the approach is about bombardingpeople
with the message that they are worthyand they are beloved
and they are part of,and that they have a purpose.
And sometimes what homies will say to usis the best
(13:17):
part of homeboy is a home park,because they feel that it's the only place
that they can take off their masksand they feel safe enough
to really come hometo the deepest part of themselves
and accept forgive people
who may have not ever offered an apology
(13:38):
and that that's part of their healingand wholeness.
As you say that, it really seems likesomething most of us need.
I don't know that
most of us really understandhow valuable we are,
and that we are born into this worldwith a lot of tools,
a lot of feelings, positive,helpful feelings.
(14:01):
I mean, they've all been largely covered,
covered up, as I said, by this,this trauma that we carry,
we could all use something like thisand we're human.
And one of the precious thingsabout being human is understanding
how connected we are to each otherand how we do affect each other,
and to keep sort of tryingto affect each other
(14:23):
in loving, positive ways.
Absolutely.
So when Homeboy Industries started,
it was mostly focused on gang membershipand and trying to improve the situations
for thefor those individuals involved in gangs.
But you've broadened now.
And so I understand that you also assist
(14:47):
those people who have been incarcerated.
And are there other communitiesthat you support too?
Yeah, we're again,the largest gang rehabilitation,
for former gang members and, formerly
incarcerated folks, both youth and adults.
My first two years at HomeboyIndustries was actually working
with young women at,juvenile detention camp.
(15:10):
It's it'sI was in the trenches for five years.
It's where I learned so muchabout how wrong I was.
Even though I had grown upin a neighborhood in South Central
Los Angeles where I knew gangs,I didn't know gang members.
The way I got to know gang membersin my first five years at homeboy.
(15:31):
Homeboy makes you sort of surrendereverything you think you know about
what it means to,
serve your community.
So what did you discover in that?
In that five years,it might be 1,000,007 things,
but you mentioned that you didn't realize
how wrong you were about that experience.
What did youwhat did these young women share?
(15:54):
Well,I think about so much of what they shared
was, what happened to themand the trauma they had experience.
And that for so many of them,
they were in juvenile
detention facilitiesbecause in so many ways,
the lights were dim in their own homes,
(16:15):
in their schools, in their communities.
There wasn't a place in which loving,caring adults
bombarded them with the messagethat there was a different way
and their behavior was a symptomof something else going on.
What I discovered, really,in my first few years was that I
was it came to homeboy with this ideathat because
(16:39):
higher education had gotten me outof my neighborhood and had presented me
with different choices and chances, thatthat was like liberation.
When I started to visit homes,
when I started to visit schools,when I started to walk with young people
to visit their probation officers,
once they were released,I realized there was a whole system
(17:02):
that really believed deeply in this ideathat we had to protect the good kids
from the bad kids,and the bad kids were the kids.
I was walking with, to which I wasit sort of took the scales off my eyes.
And it's when I realized that povertywas relative,
that we needed to transform systems,and that we needed
(17:24):
to build systems of carethat really met people where they were.
And what with them to what I knowcould be allowing people to live their
their full potential and their whole livesand to walk toward their dreams.
It's interestingthat there is this system set up
where we are protecting a group of peopleand dismissing another group,
(17:50):
and it's a quite the challenge andand pretty awesome
if you're able to find ways to help
these people who are considered bad.
What a what a devastating thingto be thinking about yourself,
but to find a way to help them understandthat they are so.
Not that.
And I always think about my work,and I want to always honor
(18:12):
the divine innocenceand every person that I meet
and and that we fearlessly and boldly,we stand against the notion
that we're goingto throw people away for us.
That's something that I think for homeboy
is somethingthat we're going to always work towards.
(18:32):
You know, Father Greg always says a visionstill has its day, and we continue
to march toward it until the day comes,when our jails are empty.
And our commitment to young people is one
that is grounded in generous loveand that's how we all thrive.
We gather every single morningfor a morning meeting
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where we practice our mantra of no usand them, just us and
and that's a ritual in a practicewhere we celebrate
no matter what's happening in the world,we celebrate the milestones.
You know, a mother receivingtheir full custody of their children,
someone getting their first yearsobriety cake, singing
(19:15):
Happy birthday to folks and saying,and we're glad you were born.
The gladness
and the joy that comes with this workis something we don't always talk about,
that there is sort of this spaciousnessin this work that as people heal,
there is room in which joyand suffering coexist.
And we believe that fully at home.
(19:35):
Boy, it's a place that holdsso many stories and celebrates resiliency.
And we laughand we enjoy each other's company.
I tell our community every personallyI see I'm so blessed
to be in this lifetimewith everyone there.
At these morning meetings,I was at one and and just taken aback
(19:55):
at how supportive everyone was of eachother.
Are people excited about coming?
Do you have a particular group of peoplethat comes all the time,
and then fringe people who show upwhen they can.
As the largest,rehabilitation center in the world,
we serve, about 10,000people walk through our doors each day.
We have about 500 in what we would call18 month model 10,000.
(20:19):
10,000 people choose. To,
oh my gosh, every.
Year, hoping to be seen
and cherished and received in communityfor the first time.
And I always say gang memberswalk through our doors
and gang members returnbecause of what they experience.
And while we may have every serviceimaginable, or again, I think the antidote
(20:44):
and the medicine and methodologyis relational tenderness.
This culture that that gets practicedin the morning in our morning meeting.
What a good start to the day
you mention a phrase radical kinship.
Can you really describe that to me?
Absolutely.
I think radical kinship is about
(21:06):
everything being in relationship,that we belong to each other.
It's about the invitation again.
It's about seeing peoplebeneath the behavior
like and seeing people wholly and fully.
I think once you have the opportunityto connect and invite
and walk with people,you listen to people's stories
and all of a sudden you see thatfolks are miracles,
(21:30):
that none of us would have probablysurvived, a day in a life
of what every person has to carry.
Everyone there has had to carryso much more than the average person.
To be in kinshipwith each other means to stand
with one another with this,no matter oneness.
We're with you. As Father Greg says.
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Till the wheels fall offor in your corner.
And we're champions of love
and of believing in peopleand the goodness in everyone.
And that no one is the worst thingthey've ever done.
True.
And there is goodness in everyone.
Yes, that's really amazing to think about.
The idea that these individualshave so much more strength
(22:14):
than most of us have to carry, because wewe aren't faced
with the same sort of frightening,traumatic experiences.
And, and that's really a strengththat could
then become so useful,
you know, in carrying on in lifeand using that strength in a
in a good way, I guess, to support othersand you to really find your own path.
(22:38):
So what are some of these programsthat you have?
Our 18 month motto is,if homeboy was a city
and some folks would,you know, would describe it again
as a as a community,a therapeutic community.
Our 18 monthmodel is like what I would say
is the full dose homeboys and doses,
meaning you get to choose what you need.
(23:00):
I describe it
as having sort of a menu of everythingimaginable from tattoo removal,
case management, workforce development,legal services, mental health and jobs.
We have 14 social enterpriseswhere we employ people,
and it's driven by, again,this culture of relational tenderness,
where we walk with each other,hold one another.
(23:23):
And, our 18 month model is really whatthe world would may consider irrational.
We pay people to be in,
what we would say is a is a programthat pays people to heal
and become stable enough in their livesto get out of survival mode
and then move into different phasesof our program
(23:45):
where they work side by sidepeople that they considered enemies,
and then they move on and moveinto full time jobs outside a home.
But it's a jobtraining, therapeutic community
where healing is what happens to all of uswhen we're together.
And those services are freeto the participants.
They are, and we pay people.
(24:07):
So we pay people to become wholeand get the stability and the foundation
they need to then thrive in their livesand move toward achieving their dreams.
Because who doesn't need a little boost?
And we want to make surewe understand that again,
when we say we stand with the poorand the marginalized
and the vulnerable, that we understandthat choices are created equal,
(24:30):
and that if someone has done the timefor their crime
when they come out and they're receivedin community, that they don't have to
choose between paying diapers
and and paying rentand then making a living.
And if you understandsort of what the conditions of someone,
(24:52):
what it takes for someone to be outand stay out and free
and be on parole or probation,there's all these conditions
that are required of them that oftentimesmake it hard to keep a job.
And so for us,
our program is uniquely designed for folkswith the highest barriers
to reintegrationsocial, emotional and structural barriers.
(25:13):
And so we employ them in our 18 monthmodel where we walk with them,
they get a case manager, a peer navigatorand mentor, a mental health therapist,
and then they move in phasesthrough the program.
But really they get to designwhat their goals are.
And for us that is designing
a program that is groundedin this sort of generous, abundant love
(25:37):
that allows peopleto honor the best of who they are.
And then a pathway, a real concretepathway to earn a good living.
So during this 18 months,
people have, an opportunity
to take courses in a specific field,
perhaps have some amount of therapy,
(25:59):
perhaps work in one of your facilities.
Are they getting paidjust to be in the 18 month program? Yes.
So again,part of paying people is really again,
so that they're able to see thisas building their new lives
and not having the pressureof being in survival.
(26:20):
And their job is to sort
of not be overwhelmedby all the requirements
of what it means to be freeand stay out and alive.
And because likely, if you aren't
able to back yourselffinancially, you're going to be feel
forced to take the wrong pathjust to survive.
(26:44):
And we want to alwayspart of what we, are proud
of is really minimizing any barriers
that would keep someonefrom changing their lives
and lean into their strengthsand build the foundation,
and also the belief in themselvesthat they
they can makeand they are worthy of a good life.
We have about 200 different classes,academic life skills, support groups,
(27:09):
we do everything from meditation,anger management.
We have substanceabuse and outpatient programs
so that we really understandwhat is the pain about,
and how do you have the rich opportunityto transform it.
And when you believe that, thenyou stand in the power of who you are.
And again,the invitation for for at homeboy
(27:30):
is about identity development.
It's about exploring this questionthat folks have never been afforded
the opportunity to explore,which is, who am I really?
Who am I really?
If I'm not the worst thing that I've done,then how do I invite it
and get to exploreand imagine who I can be?
(27:52):
That must be so hard for peoplewho have never really thought
in those termsto be given this opportunity, this gift,
and look around and think, I'mprobably not worthy of this.
I don't even know where to begin.
I don't know, is meditationbest anger management?
What do I do here?
Well, fortunately we have ambassadorsthat I would say are hope in the flesh.
(28:18):
People who have had the courageto go to places that they didn't
want to go, who have createda kind of trust in community
that allows people to feel safe enoughto take off the mask.
And because it's a culture,
I mean, we always talk about itbeing a therapeutic community
(28:39):
because the moment an opportunityto connect doesn't
start in a therapistas office, the healing begins.
When we receive each otheron the sidewalk.
We have sort of thesetherapeutic encounters that allow people
to be who they are, be where they are,
but also get to sort of unpack things
(29:00):
and being community,building a different kind of life.
And again, I think there's somethingabout human companionship
that gets underestimated.
And I think after a pandemic,
all of us understandthe trauma of isolation, how folks
who've been incarceratedhave experienced that, but how as a world,
we've experienced this notionthat the things that change
(29:24):
our life, the most
are the things that the experiencesthat don't ask us for permission.
And yet they they, they don't define us.
And so we have this opportunityto, in community,
reimagine what is the path forward.
But it all is about how
we can build a trust in an environment
(29:46):
in which people get to choosewho they are for the first time,
they get to choose their pathway,and they get to increase
their choices and chancesto live their wildest dreams.
Yeah, what an amazing gift.
Because I can only imagine thatso many of these individuals had no path.
No path, except
(30:08):
perhaps becoming a gang member.
And the idea of being ableto choose and choose a path
that's yours, that excitesyou, that moves you.
An alien thought for so many people.
What an amazing gift.
They grew up in as children,in an unpredictable and unsafe world
(30:30):
that bombarded them with the ideathat they didn't matter at home.
We want to be the opposite of thatevery chance we get.
We want to light upwhen folks walk through the door.
One of the things
I sometimes say to homies is, you know,where have you been all my life?
And we light upand we embrace in this a culture of hugs.
(30:52):
And it's a culture of I see youand we got you till the wheels fall off.
Because that's what love looks like. Yeah.
Till the wheels fall off.
And it really is the, the real thing.
I mean, none of you ever back downfrom that statement.
Nobody's ever rejected.
Nobody is everything.
We always say,come back when you're ready.
(31:13):
Not everyone's ready.
And homeboy is not for peoplewho need help.
It's for people who want help.
And I think that's a big difference.
No one's mandated or forced.
And so I always say to people,our job is to hold you
to what you said you wanted for your lifewhen you walk through those doors.
And that's our job.
And so when people sort of move awayfrom what they want,
(31:34):
part of the love is to say, hey, come backwhen you're ready or you actually need
this other kind of support,you need a different dose,
maybe higher level of care,but that's love.
It's having those conversationsbecause we care about each other here.
And there's a loving way to do thatwithout dismissing someone.
And we're not going to look the other way
(31:55):
because you trusted uswith your whole life.
And so our job is to honoryou and hold up the mirror
and that's what love looks like.
And so we always say to folks who come in,
who saythey want it, maybe they're not ready.
Come back when you're ready.
And people do and homeboy is about doses.
Not everyone gets it the first time.
(32:16):
Sometimes they come and it's overwhelming.
And people question,why do they care about us so much?
I'm going to come here and get all thishelp and you're going to pay me.
It's sort of a kind of thoughtthat is is radical in itself.
But I think for usit's about being innovative
and not just saying we're going to disruptthese systems, these systems
(32:38):
that actually don't serve underservedcommunities of color.
And we're going to build systemsthat are innovative
and that honor the good in everyone.
And I give peoplewho've never had a chance
to have the opportunityto not just survive, but thrive.
And we continue to marchtoward that vision.
We want to prioritizenot just having more of a
(33:00):
therapeutic community in a languagewhere it's not foreign to talk about
healing and talking to a therapistand doing away with those stigmas,
but that it's something that's honorableand that is something that is about
replacing these systemsthat don't work with systems of care,
with which systems, systemsthat honor loving each other
(33:22):
and that disrupt systems of punishment,
because we know that the revolvingdoor of incarceration needs to stop.
And to be able to find strengthin accepting care and being vulnerable.
I mean, that's a lot of strength.
And I think very, very scaryfor many of us.
If a person is thinkingabout coming to you,
(33:45):
do they apply or how to say,how does it work?
How does one become part of youryour family?
You walk through the doors. That's it.
Walking through the doorsis an act of resistance and courage
that gets honored at homeboy and,I always say there's the hope that we give
to the 10,000 folks who visit us annually
(34:08):
looking for that chance to experiencethe relational tenderness,
but also the opportunity,the concrete pathway to a new life.
But there's also the hope that we hold out
for the folkswho haven't walked through our doors yet.
And so every every weekwe get thousands of letters from people
at detention facilities,not just throughout California, but
(34:30):
all over the country who are hoping tocome through our doors once they get out.
And so I always think about usas a beacon of hope, and you just don't
know what that light representsfor people who may be in darkness.
How is all of this crazy, helpful,giant endeavor supported?
We've been really blessed that, again,
(34:53):
homeboy didn't start with a business planwhen I came.
There may have been 30 staffand we had an operating budget of,
you know, less than $1 million,and now we're 10,000 people, 500
trainees, 14 social enterprises, and,$50 million operating budget.
Amazing.
Which comes from philanthropy.
(35:15):
We have some government funding.
And then we also have, revenue that wegenerate from our 14 social enterprises.
And so that revenue goesbeyond paying all of these people
that have come to you, and you're payingso that they can get a head start.
There's additional moneysto support the endeavor.
Absolutely. It's we're creating jobs.
(35:37):
We're providing a solutionto the revolving door of incarceration,
and we're developing productswith the purpose that require innovation
and are just beautiful in so many waysbecause they're made with love.
What are some of those things?
So we have a cafe, we have a homegirl cafewhere you can get the best chilaquiles.
(35:59):
In Los Angeles, we have a bakerywhere you can get your baked goods.
Which is fabulous,really, really fabulous.
And great coffee too.
Yeah, we have a silk screenwhere we have merchandise.
If you don't know, Father Greg's
books are phenomenaland really are full of wisdom.
Of the 39 years, almost four decades ofworking at the margins with gang members.
(36:22):
It's my gosh.
We also again have, HB,which is a recycling center.
Homeboy threads Puppy Feeds,which is one of our newest ventures
where we offer a dog grooming salonwhere again, homies get to have purposeful
activity and a way to have a new life
and, and connect with with puppies.
(36:44):
And our these endeavors all downtown.
Are you starting to spread outaround the city? We're out.
We're all throughout, Los Angeles County.
So all our social enterprises are in LACounty,
in Pasadena, we have our puppy feeds.
We have the Beetle coffee two.Who is that?
Is part of our venture fund and ownedby one of our alumni throughout the city.
(37:07):
We want to announce a messagethat there's a different pathway
and solutionto public safety in public health,
and that we have the rich opportunitywhen we bring our resources
together to develop an alternativeto incarceration.
And homeboy is a concrete,example of that and a model.
And how great in this cityto not have walls
(37:30):
between us,but to see how we can support each other.
Absolutely.
And again, our evolution really, homeboy?
Never said, hey, we're going to growto this amount or we're going to
we always grow in response to what
people coming through the doors needed.
And prior to the pandemic,we had about 250 trainees
(37:53):
in our program,and now we've doubled in size.
We've grownreally in response to the demand.
People want help and people will come.
They don't have to be mandatedif it works.
I would say that so much of our commitmentis also to design a program
that really centers the people we serveand is led by the people we serve.
(38:17):
So we have about 300 staffthat run the organization,
and 70% of them were once clients.
And what we find is that when you standwith people, when you invest
in the healing and wholeness of people,they find purpose.
And then they built the
healthy communities by holding the dooropen for the next person.
(38:38):
And that's how we see healing transcends
the buildings and businesses that we have.
And that's how homeboy is not just anorganization, but it's become a movement.
So what can we do?
Those of usthat are outside of Homeboy Industries.
Come through the doors,be part of the movement.
We have a global Homeboy networkwhere folks from all throughout the nation
(39:01):
and different parts of the worldhave come through our doors
and been inspiredand then taken the parts of homeboy
to translate and to help alleviatesuffering in their own hometowns.
And they've replicated parts of the modelthat that echoed that.
And and that'show we've been kind of a movement.
So I would invite everyone to support usby, you know,
(39:22):
being part of the movement, whether that'swalking into our social enterprises
and supporting us or comingthrough the doors and volunteering.
We need all hands on on deck.
I hate to bring it up.
You might be flooded,
but people would actually walkthrough the doors and say, hey, I'm here.
I'd like to volunteer.
We always say, it'snot what you do at homeboy.
(39:43):
It's what happens to all of uswhen we're together and are committed.
Our world is changing rapidly,
and the way differententerprises are funded now is changing,
and a lot of governmentfunding is being pulled back.
And what's happening to to you?
Our funding streams are diversified.
(40:05):
And while we have felt on a slight impact,government
funding is only about 20% of our totaloperating budget.
And again, the movement has allowed
for philanthropy and for our ownsocial enterprises to help us.
And so any gifts that, we
(40:25):
receive is a gift that goes to the peoplewho walk through our doors
and to really help usbe part of the solution, in, in L.A.
County and beyond for you.
And what you're doing as a pretty new CEO,
what are your responsibilities?
My responsibilities as a, as a CEO
(40:46):
are to continue to be grounded
in the idea of abundanceand that the vision still has its day,
that we've got work to do,and that because the world is changing,
because the context is different,then we need to continue to evolve
how we are committed to the healingand wholeness of people,
(41:07):
and that our community is worthyof investing and in their healing.
And I would say historically,it's important to understand that
the criminalizing of the poorhas happened.
And while there's been policy changes,there hasn't been enough investment.
And, making sure that healingsafforded to the poor.
(41:30):
And so we're committed to thatthrough innovation
and continuing to disruptbut also build systems.
And so my job is, is to continueto advocate and march toward the vision
that the people who, you know,
have always been lesswill one day be first.
How is your communitydealing with our issues,
(41:53):
issues around immigration rightnow, particularly here in Los Angeles?
It's we are all hyper aware ofwhat's going on.
I think our hearts are heavy,but the messages and what's happening
is not new.
It's historyrepeating itself in our community.
What we've done is we have doubled downon championing our mission forward
(42:16):
and being hope at this time in the world
more than ever,and making sure that we understand that
committing to your own transformationat this time is an act of resistance.
But living out our mission at this time inthe world is an act of resistance.
And the attacks on our Brown community,
(42:37):
while they're are devastatingthat we are standing up
by standing strongand the power of being together
and facing this together,but also staying committed to nonviolence,
staying committed to what we knowwe need to honor,
which is a pathway to a different lifeand upward mobility.
(43:00):
So how are you coming together to
create that scenario where folks
aren't just acting out of anger
and folks are discovering that really,if I come from
my heart and my place of love,and I support other people
who are feeling frightened,I mean, how are you?
(43:21):
How is that presented?
It's it all seems so frightening to getout of that sort of downward spiral role.
We were having a healing circleduring some of the early protests,
and had the chance to listento what our community is feeling,
and one of the threats was sort ofresisting the urge to be violent.
(43:42):
And how sort of sitting on people.
And I remember vividly someone saying,
I didn't know there was another waytill I got to homeboy.
I only knew the language of violence, but
because I'm part of this,I know now there's another way.
So it's easy to resist that.
Then, once you know.
I don't know that it's easy.
(44:04):
But there is a consciousness, an awarenessand an awakening that happens
when you are part of a culturethat continuously challenge you
to let go of what you feeland to stay committed.
Another person talked a lotabout the responsibility
to their children every day,
(44:25):
and having that as a forefront
in all of this, and how that, again,is their commitment to their new life
is the biggest form of resistance.
I think that noticing that
maybe your tendency would be to say,I'm going out there, I'm
going to stop this, and that may involvesome violence or something.
(44:47):
And if you if you've had an experiencethat points you in another direction,
you can really see that and say, okay,what am I feeling now? Why?
Why is that my instinct to goand do this and
and consider it and find other options?
More than anything,what we find is that people want to do
(45:08):
something goodfor someone that is vulnerable
or doesn't have a voice,and mostly that comes really
from the empathyof knowing what that's like.
There's a kind of empathy, an experienceour community has that they connect with
and they want to protectand they want to step in.
We developed the containers at homeboyto lean on that and to say
(45:31):
you could deliver groceries to someonewho doesn't feel safe coming out.
A lot of the times we don't have that.
Those ideas aren't coming from meor from another staff.
It's coming from the community themselves.
They're rolling up their sleevesand being proactive and leaning in with
with companionship is big.
(45:51):
So unique.
You are like the microcosm
we should all be finding ourselves in,
that you have alike minded group of people in that
they understand that they're comrades,
have had some amount of suffering,and that there's empathy to be had,
(46:12):
that suffering, those feelings could becompletely different than your own.
But all of us walk a paththat is a better path
when we have others around usto help support us
and to be that personwalking the path who understands.
I'm also here to support you.
It's it's just magicalwhat happens when individuals
(46:37):
shareand become more than just themselves?
I mean, again, I still think we we need toheal ourselves first and foremost.
But with that healing,we have so much to offer.
One, it's a paradigm shift, I thinkwhen folks are in survival and their focus
is to make ends meet, they haven'thad a lot of opportunities to succeed.
(47:00):
They're sort of focused on the floorand how they're going to land,
but when they're given the foundation
and the pathway where survival is not,
they're not just thinking about tomorrowand how they're going to make it,
they're actually able to look up
and imagine a different way forward.
(47:20):
And then the sky's the limit.
But it's a big paradigm shiftthat requires
support, investment, human companionship,
and then people get to chooseand reimagine their futures.
It's such an honor, I'm sure.
And everyone who is around you, I'm isso fortunate to be in your presence.
(47:45):
Well, this exquisite mutuality,I think that's the
the part the that we don't always see.
And that you all come together,all of you that are paid employees.
Is there a fair share ofof weeding through people?
Because I would imagine therethere's a lot of people who love
(48:06):
the idea of being involved, butit might be more than they can take, or
they haven't figured outthis kind of symbiotic
relationship style that you have.
How did you get to this greatgroup of people, or is that ever changing?
Most of them come from within.
I think that is both. By design.
(48:26):
We as, as a leader for meand for all of us on our team,
we're committed to to raise peoplefrom within at every level.
We have someone who was once a client,and we think that's again,
part of the secret sauce to this workis not for the faint of heart.
As you said, it's it's not for everybody.
I think I always say homeboy will testeverything you say you're about.
(48:50):
I think that's why most of us stay there.
Well, I mean, that's good for all of us.
I've been there now 22 years,and I think of myself in this certain way.
And I'm a better human being, a bettermother, better daughter, a better partner,
because I am part of this community
and culture that tests me every day.
(49:11):
Hard to believe you have all thoseother things going on this.
It's it's
important that I think this work requirespeople that are also committed
to continue to practiceand do their own work.
I wouldn't be here sitting and looking atyou and talking about this work,
not knowing thatI am also a work in progress
and that I think for all of our staff,
(49:34):
we have practices and toolsthat help us continue to
to look at where are the placeswhere we need work and we need help.
Make sense?
I suppose you can't really show upwell for others if you're not, you know,
sort of continuing to work on yourselfand dig a little deeper.
What has to be done with integrity.
(49:54):
And I think that's what home is test outmore than anything.
Is this for realas this the real deal today?
Really?How is it that they want us to win?
Like they've not experienced that,but they're also testing out our.
Are these folks for real?
Right.
How how do I know I can trust you? Yeah.
And what does that even look like?
(50:14):
I imagine a lot of peopledon't have anybody they can trust.
Yeah,but in a trusting, loving environment,
you know, it's not about service provider.
Service recipient.
You know, sometimesI've got to check so many times, you know,
hey, what's going on with you?
But that's the beauty of the work.
The invitation is both ways.
(50:36):
How do we invite each otherto the best of ourselves?
And how do we challenge that?
What a world we have.
If we were all behaving this way,it's not good and bad or better or worse.
And really, to be paying attentionto what's going on with you,
it's it's not that you are a bad thing.
(50:57):
It's a you seem to be unhappy todayor you're upset.
Let's check in.
What's going on with you?
It's it's a masterclassin mercy and grace.
You know, it requires grace.
It requires a letting go of the hardand fast rules.
It requires a light grasp on things,requires humor.
So at the end of your day,are you pretty much exhausted?
(51:18):
I wouldn't say exhausted.
I would say I'm full.
I'm full and always grateful.
Always grateful for the opportunityand the chance to be trusted.
People trust us with the innermost partsof their lives and their dreams,
and that means a lot to meas a leader in my new role.
I hold that in my heart because I believe,you know, I believe that, yeah.
(51:45):
This work is, is important to all of us.
You know,
in hosting others, we host a deeperpart of ourselves that makes us better.
And I stand on the shoulders of giants.
I always say Ithis work is is personal and political
in a lot of ways, because it is aboutdisrupting the status quo.
(52:06):
And I come from a simple dream, you know,I always say I was carried into the world
by a woman whose only dreamit was to wear shoes one day.
And through my journey,I've gotten to know the soles of my feet.
And I stand now and with the privilege
and honor to,I get to choose what I do for a living.
(52:27):
I get to work with people at the margins,
and I get to honor their dreams.
And that makes me feel fullat the end of the day.
That's so lovely.I want that for all of us.
If there's any way we can continueto expose what you're doing, it's
so valuable.
It's so valuablefor the people that come to you
(52:48):
that you're ableto help move forward with their lives.
But it's such a valuable experience
for us to watchand see how we can lift each other up
just by coming from a place of loveand trust
and thinking about each otherfrom a loving place,
and from knowingthat everyone comes from love.
(53:12):
And there's just so many living examplesof true miracles.
I mean, and I would love the opportunityfor for their stories to be told.
As one homegirl recently said to me,we have an invitation,
a partnership with womenand young girls in Syracuse.
And the home girls are the superstars.
(53:33):
They get to go tell their stories.
And I had someone who came and said,
surely I know you're going to say no,but you got to trust me.
I have to take this young womanwho at the age
at a very young, at the age of 11,she was she got a life sentence.
She said her story needs to be heard.
And I'm like, I don't know if she's ready.
(53:53):
And she's like, just trustme. And I looked at her.
I said, I trust you.
Her story needs to be heard.
And so I always believethat stories need to be heard and told,
and that if we develop the containersfor people to own their voices
and elicit their voicesand they can sing their songs,
and all of us
(54:15):
can be better from from listening to,
to their songs, you know,everyone has a song to sing.
I think it's our jobto develop the containers
and the kind of the kind of conditionsthat will elicit the voices
and allow people who'd never thoughtthey had something to say
(54:36):
to stand in the power of their stories.
And we have so many living examplesof people who are my heroes,
because I've seen them come throughthose doors,
had sometimes bowed an inabilityto sometimes give you eye contact,
and now they're like therapists,and they're holding other people.
Because they discoveredthat they do have a voice
(55:00):
and that they are meaningfuland they are not that bad thing.
They did as you said. Yeah.
They just they started to believein their own goodness.
They started to believe in themselves.
And again, our job was to just hold upthe mirror so that the day would come
when they would see what we saw in them,which was everything they needed.
(55:20):
They already had their gift to the world.
So is there a story you could share?
There's so many storiesI carry in my heart.
Things I've heard that I'll never forget,or things I've seen
that I'll never forget. Like,
I'll never forget a person
coming through the doorwho said, I learned to.
(55:40):
I learned to weigh dopebefore I learned how to ride a bike.
Or someone who said to me, I asked them,how old were you when you joined the gang?
And that person said, the womb.
There's just so many stories.
But one of the stories I think aboutis a young woman who, in my early days,
she had already done her time andthere was no one in her system of care,
(56:05):
who could receive her home.
She finally got to go home.
I remember when she was releasedfrom juvenile detention camp,
and I was driving her home,and she would tell me, like, what streets
to avoid and what streets to go down,
because if people would see herin the car, we could be at risk.
And I think her care and attention
(56:25):
really, again,even though she had not been afforded
that or experience, thatthere was this abundance of love she had.
There's another timewhere the same person, I could tell
she was strugglingand she had, few dollars
and she was trying to exchange
some dollars, and I could tellshe was up to something not good.
(56:45):
And then I said, I have change.
And she had $100 bill.I said, I have change.
And she looked at meand her eyes got all watery,
and she said, I can't do that to you.
And I said,I can't let you do that to yourself.
You know.
But I think aboutthose are acts of love and loyalty.
And she said,
I know
I became a gang member,but I never, ever lost my soul.
(57:09):
And so there's a deep knowing.
I feel like so many peopleget so caught up in this thing
that they're doing thatthey don't even realize they have a soul.
And as you said,they often think they're the
equivalentof the worst thing they've ever done.
How do they.
That's a lot to balance then.
Yeah,I would say that most of the folks I me
(57:32):
because it wasn't really a choice
to just the most generous,loving people I've ever met.
And so there is this connectionto their soul
and and to God and to spirituality
that when you know gang members, you know,wow, they've got so much to teach me
(57:52):
about God
and love, eventhough their behavior would say otherwise.
You are so fortunate.
Thank you. I am. We are.
If we go to the margins, we know
that our lives will be transformedby the people we meet there.
And that'swhat's happened to us at homeboy,
not just to me, but every single personis part of that movement.
(58:14):
Well, there's so much for all of usto learn, especially in the situations
where we aren't treating each other well,
where we are taking
giant communities and dismissing them
or putting them over herein the bad section.
And there's obviously, from whatyou're doing, and it clearly works.
(58:36):
There's so much to learn, and there areso many better ways to treat each other.
Yeah, there's no such thing for us is goodand bad.
We're all in be good, as FatherGreg teaches us.
And you know,we don't believe in black and white.
We believe in the gray area.
And that's where we live at, homeboy.
There is a homie says he calls itthe grace area.
(58:56):
You know,that's that's our that's our way.
So what's next? So much is next.
We again continueto evolve in response to the needs.
We know that context is comes beforecontent.
We know that we are facing
a mental health epidemic nationallyin a way we've never seen.
(59:18):
We know that synthetic drugsare on the in the community,
and they're changing how traumais presenting itself at the door.
And so we need to do our workwith attention
to what we've done isand going to continue to work.
So how do we evolve?
How do we create higher levels of care,a continuum of care
(59:39):
where people can, transitionand get housed
and get sanctuary and be able to get wellbefore they come into community?
So currentlywe're working on wiring a property
where we will extend our campus to provideresidential treatment
for folks that are coming home who that's,
(01:00:02):
who may need, again, more of a,
sanctuary and wellness and substanceabuse treatment
in, in a, in a way that is confidentialand and a home for people.
And is this closeto your current facility?
It is it's it's close to there.
We have lots of projectswhere we are creating more quality jobs
and opportunities to have healingcentric workforce development hubs
(01:00:26):
throughout the county
and offer more opportunities for peopleto live their whole lives.
We're also, again, always have an eyetoward organizational health and wellness.
So developing leadersfrom within continues
to be part of our commitmentto our flourishing.
So how we develop a cultureof learning and development
(01:00:48):
for all our staffis is really important for us.
And then really leading the wayon alternatives to incarceration and being
a model, not just for Los Angeles County,but for the country in the world.
How do we, through our global homeboynetwork, continue to be a movement
that announces to the worldthat, you know, systems of care
(01:01:09):
can replace systems of punishment, andthat's so important and exciting for us.
We live in the hope of that.
Very. And Father Greg is
traveling internationallyand speaking to this, is that right?
Absolutely.
He's, continues to just be livingsaint and a genius, that.
Superstar.
(01:01:30):
That rolls up his sleevesand is more than anything,
continuesto practice the philosophy of the work.
Because there's the philosophy, the work.
And then there is
I think the, the practice of every day
is what really helps you understand
and not just trust
(01:01:50):
that folks will tell you what they need,but that you'll be trusted
and inviting people to thingsthey never imagined was possible for them.
What a beautiful feeling that must bewhen you see it happen.
Yes, when you get to help somebodydiscover who they really are.
And it's it's exquisitely mutual. Always.
Yes, it goes both ways.
(01:02:12):
And that's the beauty of it,that there's a joy and a celebration.
And in the moment,it's also about being present
and understanding that sometimesall that is promised is this moment.
And how do we rejoice in that momentand delight
in each other and not get so caught upin what we bring to the table?
But just that the gift is the momentthat we have, and that nothing and no one
(01:02:36):
is ever a waste of time because deathis around the corner for our folks.
That's the reality.
They live in communitieswhere even if they've changed your life,
they're like warzones and the worldcontinues to be unsafe and unpredictable.
For folks who have had to live incommunities where survival is
the priority.
(01:02:56):
We don't want that for any of us. No.
We want to transform our communities.
Yes, and we're doing that.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for doing what you do.
And really, you're kind of like the bootson the ground version of what it is
we're trying to do with our podcastand our message
and Doctor Bale'swork, one person at a time.
(01:03:18):
Everybody has value.
Everybody comes from a place of love.
Everybody deserves to live their life
being their best, authentic self.
Absolutely.
And the wars and traumawe see outside of us
are the wars and traumasthat we have inside. And
(01:03:40):
wow, if we can help each
other, get rid of that, undo that trauma,undo all the trash we feel
we have to carry, how much better offwe'll all be.
And I again, I thank you so much for whatyou do, and I thank you for being here.
And how can people get to youto offer financial support?
(01:04:01):
Where would they gojust to find out more about you?
Because the organizationis so fascinating.
Yeah.
Well, again, Hope has an addressand we have a website,
where you can visit usand contribute to our mission.
Every dollar receivedis dedicated to the healing
and wholeness of peopleon the margins and second chances.
(01:04:24):
And so we hope that we continueto get the support
we've gotten through the yearsso that we resist the urge to go backwards
and that we continue to investin the solution.
And again, systems of care and community
that really honor the the best in people.
And I love thatyou said resist the urge to go backwards.
(01:04:47):
That holds truefor each of us as individuals,
whether we've struggled or not.
And and also as communities.
It's it's you have to think twiceto make sure you're not backing up.
Yeah.And everything begins with an invitation.
I thank you for the invitationto be here and talk about our work
and about the courage requiredto change and transform your pain,
(01:05:09):
so you stop transmitting it.
How do we change things is throughinvitation and through commitment
to receive each otherand that transforms all of us.
It does.And I'm inviting you back. Thank you.
And I'm inviting you to bring
some of those fabulous individualswho would be happy to share their stories.
There's so much for all of us.
(01:05:30):
They're my personal heroes,and I would love for them to get to,
in their own voice, talkabout their resiliency and their journeys.
Well, let's do that.
So if I'm going to find you,am I going to Homeboy Industries?
Org talk or. Homeboy Industries during.
Homeboy industries.org?
(01:05:51):
Check it out.
It's a great website and there's so muchinformation you'll find it fascinating.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening and pay attentionbecause we're going to be
doing more of thiswith our wonderful guest today.
Thank you Shirley. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Hi, I'm Cynthia Marksand I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis
Foundation established by my latehusband, Doctor Bernard Bail.
The fabulous doctor Bernard Bail.
Welcome to And Now Love.
Shirley Torres is here with us today.
I'm really excited.
Along with Steve Delgado,Shirley is a co-chief executive officer
(00:29):
at Homeboy Industries.
Before we divein, I'd like to share a little bit
about Homeboy Industriesas you may not have heard of them.
After our conversation,you're going to be as excited
about the whole idea as I am.
In 1986, when Homeboy Industriesfounder Gregory Boyle
(00:50):
became pastor of Dolores Mission Church.
It was the poorestCatholic parish in Los Angeles.
The parish includedAliso Village and Pico Gardens.
Then the largest public housing
projects west of the Mississippi.
They also had the highest concentrationof gang activity.
(01:15):
That was saying something, given Los
Angeles has a reputationas the gang capital of the world.
At the
time,law enforcement tactics of suppression
and criminal justicepolicies of mass incarceration
were the prevailing meansto deal with gang violence.
(01:36):
But where others only sawcriminals, Father
Greg saw people in need of help.
Today, Homeboy Industriesis the largest gang intervention,
rehabilitationand reentry program in the world.
Welcoming thousands to their doorseach year.
(01:57):
Each year, Homeboy Industrieswelcomes thousands of people
through their doors,seeking to transform their lives.
Whether joining the 18 monthEmployment and Reentry Program or seeking
discreet services such as tattoo removal
or substance abuse resources.
Their participants are embraced
(02:17):
by a community of kinshipand offered a variety
of free wraparound servicesto facilitate healing and growth.
Shirley was raised in South Los Angeles,a neighborhood populated by violence,
drugs, and gangs, and knowsfirsthand the structural barriers
(02:38):
and challengesfacing urban youth and their futures.
Shirley graduated from UCLA,
becoming the first in her familyto earn a college degree.
She has also completed a master's degreein social work
at the University of Southern California.
She focused her studies in community
(02:59):
organization and public administration.
Her commitmentto building communities of support
for those least likely to succeedis exemplified
in her heartfeltdevotion to Homeboy Industries.
That was a lot.
There's so much to talk aboutand thank you so much for being here.
(03:22):
Thank you for having me.
You're so, so busy,and we're just thrilled
that you took some time to talk with us.
And I have so many questions.
I think many of us don't know a whole lotabout what
Homeboy Industries is, how it operates,
all the little fingers and tentaclesand how far reaching it is,
(03:42):
and then also how it's supported,you know,
how do you manage to keep moving on
with all of your programsand grow and grow and grow?
So, so first, how did you get involvedwith this fabulous organization?
I just want to say, it's really,my life's honor and privilege
(04:03):
to pay attention to some of the doorsat Homeboy Industries.
I first walked through the doorand was welcomed with a smile and love.
The palpable love that everyone can feelwhen they walk through.
22 years ago, I looking back
now, I can say I was a kid myselfand it was really my first job.
(04:23):
I went to Homeboy Industries looking fora job, and I found my life purpose.
And how did you select Homeboy Industries?
I would sayI didn't select Homeboy Industries.
I would say coming to HomeboyIndustries was was my calling.
It selected you.
Yeah.
And in many waysyou know I was looking to always
(04:46):
serve my communityand work with people on the margins.
And I really was lookingto make a difference.
And to be honest I the time HomeboyIndustries slogan was jobs not jails.
And while I was,you know, really interested in
and doing some of the work, I myselfdidn't know a lot about Father Greg
and his mission and visionand the culture of homeboy,
(05:09):
which has transformed my lifein many ways.
How fortunate for you and for allthe people that you work with and serve.
So what was Father Boyle'sinitial mission?
I would say that, you know,
I always tell people like HomeboyIndustries really began with a prayer,
a prayer that really was about
(05:30):
inviting people to a whole new life.
And opportunity to stop chasing death.
Gang members will never say,they're suicidal.
Gang members will choose violence
because there's a part of themthat's been bombarded by a kind of trauma
that that doesn't allow them to see thata future is possible.
(05:52):
Father Greg has taught me, andand the people of homeboy have raised me
to really understandthat choices are created equal.
And, young people don't choosegang membership.
In so many ways.
It's about a life of survival,and it's about belonging.
Hopeful kids don't join gangs.
It's this lethal absence of hope.
But Homeboy Industrieswas really born out of,
(06:16):
a way to try to solve and honor
the idea that every life matters
and that those that are at the marginswere worthy of a different kind of life.
And so I would say HomeboyIndustries really is designed and set up
to deliver hope at the crossroads of lifeand death for folks that are chasing it.
(06:38):
And it's really about an invitation, about
imagining that there could be more choices
and chancesand that no matter what, neighborhood
or zip code you're born into,that your future shouldn't depend on that.
I don't know that all of us have everreally thought about what it takes
for someone to join a gang, like whatyou just said was really fascinating.
(07:03):
And to that, though,how how did Father Boyle
get a foot in the doorin terms of being able to show somebody
another pathwhen all they likely have known
is some form of fear or violence
or mistrust or lack of love?
How did he begin to open people's eyes?
(07:27):
I think presence and a commitmentto be with
and proximity and build in relationships,seeing past
behavior seen gang membersnot for what they were doing,
but for what was underneath that,which again, was a lethal absence of hope.
And so I think Father Gregwas in community with them
(07:49):
and inviting them with his parish
to really think about a solution, about
how do we offer hope for the hopeless.
And the truth is, he leaned inand he leaned in and listened.
And I remember one of the things he sharedis he asked
gang members, what do you thinkyou need to change your life?
(08:11):
And the firstthing they said was a school.
And so they rolled up their
sleeves as a communityand they built a school together.
They, the gang membersand Father Boyle and his volunteers.
I suppose that I would saythe mothers of the parish were really
the change makersthat, together with Father Greg,
really demanded a different pathfor their children.
(08:35):
And so together they really thought aboutnot just schools, but jobs.
And jobs for the future became the firstslogan under which homeboy was born,
which was the idea of gang membershaving a reason
to get up in the morning and a reasonnot to gang bang the night before.
Purposeful activity.
And then working side by side peoplethey'd consider enemies.
(08:57):
And so, so much of what homeboy is aboutis about challenging
the notion of enemy and other,and that through kinship
and through working together,that we'd actually build connection
and that we would see thatwe're more alike than we are different.
Scary for a lot of peopleto enter into a scenario like that.
(09:20):
It requires so much courage. Yes.
And I don't think in my 22 yearsof paying attention
to a single doorthat I've met more resilient
and more courageousand brave human beings in my life.
It's the reason I admire,and I've met some of my heroes
who've come through those doors
(09:40):
because it
requires a kind of commitmentto keep getting up,
to stop running from some of the things
that were not your choice,and to say that the things
that you experience, the traumathat you experience,
the things that happen toyou don't define you.
And it requires human companionship.
(10:01):
And that's what homeboy is about.
Well, it's amazing that you say thatbecause that's
what we speak to all the time,is that you are not the trauma
that you carry, not the traumathat's been put upon you.
And we maneuver through lifecarrying that heavy weight.
Unless we can come to terms with it,
(10:21):
figure it outand figure out ways to let it go.
And once you let that trauma go,
you can operate from your true self,which is probably a thing
full of love and compassionand empathy for others.
And I think if we as individuals,
(10:42):
all take care of that within ourselvesand find that
that inner joy and love ourselves,you can't help but bring others up.
Even those who may not,for whatever reason,
have the ability to undo the trauma,don't know they have the trauma.
But just by this example
(11:05):
or exuding these feelings, it'sgoing to spread itself
in the communities that you take part in.
And you can really feel that.
You mentioned this earlier at homeboywhen you I've only been there
once, and I can't waitto go back about 375 times.
But when you go in there,people look you in the eyes.
(11:27):
They're smiling, they're gracious.
It's it's. As if.
Everyone is so proudto be their best self.
It's a culture that is, intentional
and requiresboth urgency and patience in this work.
You know, to love is, is to
(11:49):
to ask people for permissionto walk with them in this journey
and to hold each other,and to also see the connection
that we have that are healingand wholeness is connected to each other.
And so as much as I'm thereand as much as we're there as a container
to receive peoplewho've never been received in community
to hold up the mirrorand to say everything
(12:12):
you need to succeedyou were already born with, you're worthy.
Those messages require us to also be ableto believe in the exquisite
mutuality of the work, that our healingis connected to each other,
and that in that exchangeand in that relationship, there is a
deeper kind of hosting that also servesme and makes me a better person.
(12:35):
And that's how we build communitiesthat are healthy and whole
and that speak another language.
For as much as I'm really,
proud of all the resourcesand the one stop shops that we offer,
I mean, everything that someone may needto change the arc of their life.
Every resource,everything, every barrier is,
(12:56):
is removed in this, in the designof our programing, our model.
But I think what makes us differentis really the approach.
And the approach is about bombardingpeople
with the message that they are worthyand they are beloved
and they are part of,and that they have a purpose.
And sometimes what homies will say to usis the best
(13:17):
part of homeboy is a home park,because they feel that it's the only place
that they can take off their masksand they feel safe enough
to really come hometo the deepest part of themselves
and accept forgive people
who may have not ever offered an apology
(13:38):
and that that's part of their healingand wholeness.
As you say that, it really seems likesomething most of us need.
I don't know that
most of us really understandhow valuable we are,
and that we are born into this worldwith a lot of tools,
a lot of feelings, positive,helpful feelings.
(14:01):
I mean, they've all been largely covered,
covered up, as I said, by this,this trauma that we carry,
we could all use something like thisand we're human.
And one of the precious thingsabout being human is understanding
how connected we are to each otherand how we do affect each other,
and to keep sort of tryingto affect each other
(14:23):
in loving, positive ways.
Absolutely.
So when Homeboy Industries started,
it was mostly focused on gang membershipand and trying to improve the situations
for thefor those individuals involved in gangs.
But you've broadened now.
And so I understand that you also assist
(14:47):
those people who have been incarcerated.
And are there other communitiesthat you support too?
Yeah, we're again,the largest gang rehabilitation,
for former gang members and, formerly
incarcerated folks, both youth and adults.
My first two years at HomeboyIndustries was actually working
with young women at,juvenile detention camp.
(15:10):
It's it'sI was in the trenches for five years.
It's where I learned so muchabout how wrong I was.
Even though I had grown upin a neighborhood in South Central
Los Angeles where I knew gangs,I didn't know gang members.
The way I got to know gang membersin my first five years at homeboy.
(15:31):
Homeboy makes you sort of surrendereverything you think you know about
what it means to,
serve your community.
So what did you discover in that?
In that five years,it might be 1,000,007 things,
but you mentioned that you didn't realize
how wrong you were about that experience.
What did youwhat did these young women share?
(15:54):
Well,I think about so much of what they shared
was, what happened to themand the trauma they had experience.
And that for so many of them,
they were in juvenile
detention facilitiesbecause in so many ways,
the lights were dim in their own homes,
(16:15):
in their schools, in their communities.
There wasn't a place in which loving,caring adults
bombarded them with the messagethat there was a different way
and their behavior was a symptomof something else going on.
What I discovered, really,in my first few years was that I
was it came to homeboy with this ideathat because
(16:39):
higher education had gotten me outof my neighborhood and had presented me
with different choices and chances, thatthat was like liberation.
When I started to visit homes,
when I started to visit schools,when I started to walk with young people
to visit their probation officers,
once they were released,I realized there was a whole system
(17:02):
that really believed deeply in this ideathat we had to protect the good kids
from the bad kids,and the bad kids were the kids.
I was walking with, to which I wasit sort of took the scales off my eyes.
And it's when I realized that povertywas relative,
that we needed to transform systems,and that we needed
(17:24):
to build systems of carethat really met people where they were.
And what with them to what I knowcould be allowing people to live their
their full potential and their whole livesand to walk toward their dreams.
It's interestingthat there is this system set up
where we are protecting a group of peopleand dismissing another group,
(17:50):
and it's a quite the challenge andand pretty awesome
if you're able to find ways to help
these people who are considered bad.
What a what a devastating thingto be thinking about yourself,
but to find a way to help them understandthat they are so.
Not that.
And I always think about my work,and I want to always honor
(18:12):
the divine innocenceand every person that I meet
and and that we fearlessly and boldly,we stand against the notion
that we're goingto throw people away for us.
That's something that I think for homeboy
is somethingthat we're going to always work towards.
(18:32):
You know, Father Greg always says a visionstill has its day, and we continue
to march toward it until the day comes,when our jails are empty.
And our commitment to young people is one
that is grounded in generous loveand that's how we all thrive.
We gather every single morningfor a morning meeting
(18:54):
where we practice our mantra of no usand them, just us and
and that's a ritual in a practicewhere we celebrate
no matter what's happening in the world,we celebrate the milestones.
You know, a mother receivingtheir full custody of their children,
someone getting their first yearsobriety cake, singing
(19:15):
Happy birthday to folks and saying,and we're glad you were born.
The gladness
and the joy that comes with this workis something we don't always talk about,
that there is sort of this spaciousnessin this work that as people heal,
there is room in which joyand suffering coexist.
And we believe that fully at home.
(19:35):
Boy, it's a place that holdsso many stories and celebrates resiliency.
And we laughand we enjoy each other's company.
I tell our community every personallyI see I'm so blessed
to be in this lifetimewith everyone there.
At these morning meetings,I was at one and and just taken aback
(19:55):
at how supportive everyone was of eachother.
Are people excited about coming?
Do you have a particular group of peoplethat comes all the time,
and then fringe people who show upwhen they can.
As the largest,rehabilitation center in the world,
we serve, about 10,000people walk through our doors each day.
We have about 500 in what we would call18 month model 10,000.
(20:19):
10,000 people choose. To,
oh my gosh, every.
Year, hoping to be seen
and cherished and received in communityfor the first time.
And I always say gang memberswalk through our doors
and gang members returnbecause of what they experience.
And while we may have every serviceimaginable, or again, I think the antidote
(20:44):
and the medicine and methodologyis relational tenderness.
This culture that that gets practicedin the morning in our morning meeting.
What a good start to the day
you mention a phrase radical kinship.
Can you really describe that to me?
Absolutely.
I think radical kinship is about
(21:06):
everything being in relationship,that we belong to each other.
It's about the invitation again.
It's about seeing peoplebeneath the behavior
like and seeing people wholly and fully.
I think once you have the opportunityto connect and invite
and walk with people,you listen to people's stories
and all of a sudden you see thatfolks are miracles,
(21:30):
that none of us would have probablysurvived, a day in a life
of what every person has to carry.
Everyone there has had to carryso much more than the average person.
To be in kinshipwith each other means to stand
with one another with this,no matter oneness.
We're with you. As Father Greg says.
(21:52):
Till the wheels fall offor in your corner.
And we're champions of love
and of believing in peopleand the goodness in everyone.
And that no one is the worst thingthey've ever done.
True.
And there is goodness in everyone.
Yes, that's really amazing to think about.
The idea that these individualshave so much more strength
(22:14):
than most of us have to carry, because wewe aren't faced
with the same sort of frightening,traumatic experiences.
And, and that's really a strengththat could
then become so useful,
you know, in carrying on in lifeand using that strength in a
in a good way, I guess, to support othersand you to really find your own path.
(22:38):
So what are some of these programsthat you have?
Our 18 month motto is,if homeboy was a city
and some folks would,you know, would describe it again
as a as a community,a therapeutic community.
Our 18 monthmodel is like what I would say
is the full dose homeboys and doses,
meaning you get to choose what you need.
(23:00):
I describe it
as having sort of a menu of everythingimaginable from tattoo removal,
case management, workforce development,legal services, mental health and jobs.
We have 14 social enterpriseswhere we employ people,
and it's driven by, again,this culture of relational tenderness,
where we walk with each other,hold one another.
(23:23):
And, our 18 month model is really whatthe world would may consider irrational.
We pay people to be in,
what we would say is a is a programthat pays people to heal
and become stable enough in their livesto get out of survival mode
and then move into different phasesof our program
(23:45):
where they work side by sidepeople that they considered enemies,
and then they move on and moveinto full time jobs outside a home.
But it's a jobtraining, therapeutic community
where healing is what happens to all of uswhen we're together.
And those services are freeto the participants.
They are, and we pay people.
(24:07):
So we pay people to become wholeand get the stability and the foundation
they need to then thrive in their livesand move toward achieving their dreams.
Because who doesn't need a little boost?
And we want to make surewe understand that again,
when we say we stand with the poorand the marginalized
and the vulnerable, that we understandthat choices are created equal,
(24:30):
and that if someone has done the timefor their crime
when they come out and they're receivedin community, that they don't have to
choose between paying diapers
and and paying rentand then making a living.
And if you understandsort of what the conditions of someone,
(24:52):
what it takes for someone to be outand stay out and free
and be on parole or probation,there's all these conditions
that are required of them that oftentimesmake it hard to keep a job.
And so for us,
our program is uniquely designed for folkswith the highest barriers
to reintegrationsocial, emotional and structural barriers.
(25:13):
And so we employ them in our 18 monthmodel where we walk with them,
they get a case manager, a peer navigatorand mentor, a mental health therapist,
and then they move in phasesthrough the program.
But really they get to designwhat their goals are.
And for us that is designing
a program that is groundedin this sort of generous, abundant love
(25:37):
that allows peopleto honor the best of who they are.
And then a pathway, a real concretepathway to earn a good living.
So during this 18 months,
people have, an opportunity
to take courses in a specific field,
perhaps have some amount of therapy,
(25:59):
perhaps work in one of your facilities.
Are they getting paidjust to be in the 18 month program? Yes.
So again,part of paying people is really again,
so that they're able to see thisas building their new lives
and not having the pressureof being in survival.
(26:20):
And their job is to sort
of not be overwhelmedby all the requirements
of what it means to be freeand stay out and alive.
And because likely, if you aren't
able to back yourselffinancially, you're going to be feel
forced to take the wrong pathjust to survive.
(26:44):
And we want to alwayspart of what we, are proud
of is really minimizing any barriers
that would keep someonefrom changing their lives
and lean into their strengthsand build the foundation,
and also the belief in themselvesthat they
they can makeand they are worthy of a good life.
We have about 200 different classes,academic life skills, support groups,
(27:09):
we do everything from meditation,anger management.
We have substanceabuse and outpatient programs
so that we really understandwhat is the pain about,
and how do you have the rich opportunityto transform it.
And when you believe that, thenyou stand in the power of who you are.
And again,the invitation for for at homeboy
(27:30):
is about identity development.
It's about exploring this questionthat folks have never been afforded
the opportunity to explore,which is, who am I really?
Who am I really?
If I'm not the worst thing that I've done,then how do I invite it
and get to exploreand imagine who I can be?
(27:52):
That must be so hard for peoplewho have never really thought
in those termsto be given this opportunity, this gift,
and look around and think, I'mprobably not worthy of this.
I don't even know where to begin.
I don't know, is meditationbest anger management?
What do I do here?
Well, fortunately we have ambassadorsthat I would say are hope in the flesh.
(28:18):
People who have had the courageto go to places that they didn't
want to go, who have createda kind of trust in community
that allows people to feel safe enoughto take off the mask.
And because it's a culture,
I mean, we always talk about itbeing a therapeutic community
(28:39):
because the moment an opportunityto connect doesn't
start in a therapistas office, the healing begins.
When we receive each otheron the sidewalk.
We have sort of thesetherapeutic encounters that allow people
to be who they are, be where they are,
but also get to sort of unpack things
(29:00):
and being community,building a different kind of life.
And again, I think there's somethingabout human companionship
that gets underestimated.
And I think after a pandemic,
all of us understandthe trauma of isolation, how folks
who've been incarceratedhave experienced that, but how as a world,
we've experienced this notionthat the things that change
(29:24):
our life, the most
are the things that the experiencesthat don't ask us for permission.
And yet they they, they don't define us.
And so we have this opportunityto, in community,
reimagine what is the path forward.
But it all is about how
we can build a trust in an environment
(29:46):
in which people get to choosewho they are for the first time,
they get to choose their pathway,and they get to increase
their choices and chancesto live their wildest dreams.
Yeah, what an amazing gift.
Because I can only imagine thatso many of these individuals had no path.
No path, except
(30:08):
perhaps becoming a gang member.
And the idea of being ableto choose and choose a path
that's yours, that excitesyou, that moves you.
An alien thought for so many people.
What an amazing gift.
They grew up in as children,in an unpredictable and unsafe world
(30:30):
that bombarded them with the ideathat they didn't matter at home.
We want to be the opposite of thatevery chance we get.
We want to light upwhen folks walk through the door.
One of the things
I sometimes say to homies is, you know,where have you been all my life?
And we light upand we embrace in this a culture of hugs.
(30:52):
And it's a culture of I see youand we got you till the wheels fall off.
Because that's what love looks like. Yeah.
Till the wheels fall off.
And it really is the, the real thing.
I mean, none of you ever back downfrom that statement.
Nobody's ever rejected.
Nobody is everything.
We always say,come back when you're ready.
(31:13):
Not everyone's ready.
And homeboy is not for peoplewho need help.
It's for people who want help.
And I think that's a big difference.
No one's mandated or forced.
And so I always say to people,our job is to hold you
to what you said you wanted for your lifewhen you walk through those doors.
And that's our job.
And so when people sort of move awayfrom what they want,
(31:34):
part of the love is to say, hey, come backwhen you're ready or you actually need
this other kind of support,you need a different dose,
maybe higher level of care,but that's love.
It's having those conversationsbecause we care about each other here.
And there's a loving way to do thatwithout dismissing someone.
And we're not going to look the other way
(31:55):
because you trusted uswith your whole life.
And so our job is to honoryou and hold up the mirror
and that's what love looks like.
And so we always say to folks who come in,
who saythey want it, maybe they're not ready.
Come back when you're ready.
And people do and homeboy is about doses.
Not everyone gets it the first time.
(32:16):
Sometimes they come and it's overwhelming.
And people question,why do they care about us so much?
I'm going to come here and get all thishelp and you're going to pay me.
It's sort of a kind of thoughtthat is is radical in itself.
But I think for usit's about being innovative
and not just saying we're going to disruptthese systems, these systems
(32:38):
that actually don't serve underservedcommunities of color.
And we're going to build systemsthat are innovative
and that honor the good in everyone.
And I give peoplewho've never had a chance
to have the opportunityto not just survive, but thrive.
And we continue to marchtoward that vision.
We want to prioritizenot just having more of a
(33:00):
therapeutic community in a languagewhere it's not foreign to talk about
healing and talking to a therapistand doing away with those stigmas,
but that it's something that's honorableand that is something that is about
replacing these systemsthat don't work with systems of care,
with which systems, systemsthat honor loving each other
(33:22):
and that disrupt systems of punishment,
because we know that the revolvingdoor of incarceration needs to stop.
And to be able to find strengthin accepting care and being vulnerable.
I mean, that's a lot of strength.
And I think very, very scaryfor many of us.
If a person is thinkingabout coming to you,
(33:45):
do they apply or how to say,how does it work?
How does one become part of youryour family?
You walk through the doors. That's it.
Walking through the doorsis an act of resistance and courage
that gets honored at homeboy and,I always say there's the hope that we give
to the 10,000 folks who visit us annually
(34:08):
looking for that chance to experiencethe relational tenderness,
but also the opportunity,the concrete pathway to a new life.
But there's also the hope that we hold out
for the folkswho haven't walked through our doors yet.
And so every every weekwe get thousands of letters from people
at detention facilities,not just throughout California, but
(34:30):
all over the country who are hoping tocome through our doors once they get out.
And so I always think about usas a beacon of hope, and you just don't
know what that light representsfor people who may be in darkness.
How is all of this crazy, helpful,giant endeavor supported?
We've been really blessed that, again,
(34:53):
homeboy didn't start with a business planwhen I came.
There may have been 30 staffand we had an operating budget of,
you know, less than $1 million,and now we're 10,000 people, 500
trainees, 14 social enterprises, and,$50 million operating budget.
Amazing.
Which comes from philanthropy.
(35:15):
We have some government funding.
And then we also have, revenue that wegenerate from our 14 social enterprises.
And so that revenue goesbeyond paying all of these people
that have come to you, and you're payingso that they can get a head start.
There's additional moneysto support the endeavor.
Absolutely. It's we're creating jobs.
(35:37):
We're providing a solutionto the revolving door of incarceration,
and we're developing productswith the purpose that require innovation
and are just beautiful in so many waysbecause they're made with love.
What are some of those things?
So we have a cafe, we have a homegirl cafewhere you can get the best chilaquiles.
(35:59):
In Los Angeles, we have a bakerywhere you can get your baked goods.
Which is fabulous,really, really fabulous.
And great coffee too.
Yeah, we have a silk screenwhere we have merchandise.
If you don't know, Father Greg's
books are phenomenaland really are full of wisdom.
Of the 39 years, almost four decades ofworking at the margins with gang members.
(36:22):
It's my gosh.
We also again have, HB,which is a recycling center.
Homeboy threads Puppy Feeds,which is one of our newest ventures
where we offer a dog grooming salonwhere again, homies get to have purposeful
activity and a way to have a new life
and, and connect with with puppies.
(36:44):
And our these endeavors all downtown.
Are you starting to spread outaround the city? We're out.
We're all throughout, Los Angeles County.
So all our social enterprises are in LACounty,
in Pasadena, we have our puppy feeds.
We have the Beetle coffee two.Who is that?
Is part of our venture fund and ownedby one of our alumni throughout the city.
(37:07):
We want to announce a messagethat there's a different pathway
and solutionto public safety in public health,
and that we have the rich opportunitywhen we bring our resources
together to develop an alternativeto incarceration.
And homeboy is a concrete,example of that and a model.
And how great in this cityto not have walls
(37:30):
between us,but to see how we can support each other.
Absolutely.
And again, our evolution really, homeboy?
Never said, hey, we're going to growto this amount or we're going to
we always grow in response to what
people coming through the doors needed.
And prior to the pandemic,we had about 250 trainees
(37:53):
in our program,and now we've doubled in size.
We've grownreally in response to the demand.
People want help and people will come.
They don't have to be mandatedif it works.
I would say that so much of our commitmentis also to design a program
that really centers the people we serveand is led by the people we serve.
(38:17):
So we have about 300 staffthat run the organization,
and 70% of them were once clients.
And what we find is that when you standwith people, when you invest
in the healing and wholeness of people,they find purpose.
And then they built the
healthy communities by holding the dooropen for the next person.
(38:38):
And that's how we see healing transcends
the buildings and businesses that we have.
And that's how homeboy is not just anorganization, but it's become a movement.
So what can we do?
Those of usthat are outside of Homeboy Industries.
Come through the doors,be part of the movement.
We have a global Homeboy networkwhere folks from all throughout the nation
(39:01):
and different parts of the worldhave come through our doors
and been inspiredand then taken the parts of homeboy
to translate and to help alleviatesuffering in their own hometowns.
And they've replicated parts of the modelthat that echoed that.
And and that'show we've been kind of a movement.
So I would invite everyone to support usby, you know,
(39:22):
being part of the movement, whether that'swalking into our social enterprises
and supporting us or comingthrough the doors and volunteering.
We need all hands on on deck.
I hate to bring it up.
You might be flooded,
but people would actually walkthrough the doors and say, hey, I'm here.
I'd like to volunteer.
We always say, it'snot what you do at homeboy.
(39:43):
It's what happens to all of uswhen we're together and are committed.
Our world is changing rapidly,
and the way differententerprises are funded now is changing,
and a lot of governmentfunding is being pulled back.
And what's happening to to you?
Our funding streams are diversified.
(40:05):
And while we have felt on a slight impact,government
funding is only about 20% of our totaloperating budget.
And again, the movement has allowed
for philanthropy and for our ownsocial enterprises to help us.
And so any gifts that, we
(40:25):
receive is a gift that goes to the peoplewho walk through our doors
and to really help usbe part of the solution, in, in L.A.
County and beyond for you.
And what you're doing as a pretty new CEO,
what are your responsibilities?
My responsibilities as a, as a CEO
(40:46):
are to continue to be grounded
in the idea of abundanceand that the vision still has its day,
that we've got work to do,and that because the world is changing,
because the context is different,then we need to continue to evolve
how we are committed to the healingand wholeness of people,
(41:07):
and that our community is worthyof investing and in their healing.
And I would say historically,it's important to understand that
the criminalizing of the poorhas happened.
And while there's been policy changes,there hasn't been enough investment.
And, making sure that healingsafforded to the poor.
(41:30):
And so we're committed to thatthrough innovation
and continuing to disruptbut also build systems.
And so my job is, is to continueto advocate and march toward the vision
that the people who, you know,
have always been lesswill one day be first.
How is your communitydealing with our issues,
(41:53):
issues around immigration rightnow, particularly here in Los Angeles?
It's we are all hyper aware ofwhat's going on.
I think our hearts are heavy,but the messages and what's happening
is not new.
It's historyrepeating itself in our community.
What we've done is we have doubled downon championing our mission forward
(42:16):
and being hope at this time in the world
more than ever,and making sure that we understand that
committing to your own transformationat this time is an act of resistance.
But living out our mission at this time inthe world is an act of resistance.
And the attacks on our Brown community,
(42:37):
while they're are devastatingthat we are standing up
by standing strongand the power of being together
and facing this together,but also staying committed to nonviolence,
staying committed to what we knowwe need to honor,
which is a pathway to a different lifeand upward mobility.
(43:00):
So how are you coming together to
create that scenario where folks
aren't just acting out of anger
and folks are discovering that really,if I come from
my heart and my place of love,and I support other people
who are feeling frightened,I mean, how are you?
(43:21):
How is that presented?
It's it all seems so frightening to getout of that sort of downward spiral role.
We were having a healing circleduring some of the early protests,
and had the chance to listento what our community is feeling,
and one of the threats was sort ofresisting the urge to be violent.
(43:42):
And how sort of sitting on people.
And I remember vividly someone saying,
I didn't know there was another waytill I got to homeboy.
I only knew the language of violence, but
because I'm part of this,I know now there's another way.
So it's easy to resist that.
Then, once you know.
I don't know that it's easy.
(44:04):
But there is a consciousness, an awarenessand an awakening that happens
when you are part of a culturethat continuously challenge you
to let go of what you feeland to stay committed.
Another person talked a lotabout the responsibility
to their children every day,
(44:25):
and having that as a forefront
in all of this, and how that, again,is their commitment to their new life
is the biggest form of resistance.
I think that noticing that
maybe your tendency would be to say,I'm going out there, I'm
going to stop this, and that may involvesome violence or something.
(44:47):
And if you if you've had an experiencethat points you in another direction,
you can really see that and say, okay,what am I feeling now? Why?
Why is that my instinct to goand do this and
and consider it and find other options?
More than anything,what we find is that people want to do
(45:08):
something goodfor someone that is vulnerable
or doesn't have a voice,and mostly that comes really
from the empathyof knowing what that's like.
There's a kind of empathy, an experienceour community has that they connect with
and they want to protectand they want to step in.
We developed the containers at homeboyto lean on that and to say
(45:31):
you could deliver groceries to someonewho doesn't feel safe coming out.
A lot of the times we don't have that.
Those ideas aren't coming from meor from another staff.
It's coming from the community themselves.
They're rolling up their sleevesand being proactive and leaning in with
with companionship is big.
(45:51):
So unique.
You are like the microcosm
we should all be finding ourselves in,
that you have alike minded group of people in that
they understand that they're comrades,
have had some amount of suffering,and that there's empathy to be had,
(46:12):
that suffering, those feelings could becompletely different than your own.
But all of us walk a paththat is a better path
when we have others around usto help support us
and to be that personwalking the path who understands.
I'm also here to support you.
It's it's just magicalwhat happens when individuals
(46:37):
shareand become more than just themselves?
I mean, again, I still think we we need toheal ourselves first and foremost.
But with that healing,we have so much to offer.
One, it's a paradigm shift, I thinkwhen folks are in survival and their focus
is to make ends meet, they haven'thad a lot of opportunities to succeed.
(47:00):
They're sort of focused on the floorand how they're going to land,
but when they're given the foundation
and the pathway where survival is not,
they're not just thinking about tomorrowand how they're going to make it,
they're actually able to look up
and imagine a different way forward.
(47:20):
And then the sky's the limit.
But it's a big paradigm shiftthat requires
support, investment, human companionship,
and then people get to chooseand reimagine their futures.
It's such an honor, I'm sure.
And everyone who is around you, I'm isso fortunate to be in your presence.
(47:45):
Well, this exquisite mutuality,I think that's the
the part the that we don't always see.
And that you all come together,all of you that are paid employees.
Is there a fair share ofof weeding through people?
Because I would imagine therethere's a lot of people who love
(48:06):
the idea of being involved, butit might be more than they can take, or
they haven't figured outthis kind of symbiotic
relationship style that you have.
How did you get to this greatgroup of people, or is that ever changing?
Most of them come from within.
I think that is both. By design.
(48:26):
We as, as a leader for meand for all of us on our team,
we're committed to to raise peoplefrom within at every level.
We have someone who was once a client,and we think that's again,
part of the secret sauce to this workis not for the faint of heart.
As you said, it's it's not for everybody.
I think I always say homeboy will testeverything you say you're about.
(48:50):
I think that's why most of us stay there.
Well, I mean, that's good for all of us.
I've been there now 22 years,and I think of myself in this certain way.
And I'm a better human being, a bettermother, better daughter, a better partner,
because I am part of this community
and culture that tests me every day.
(49:11):
Hard to believe you have all thoseother things going on this.
It's it's
important that I think this work requirespeople that are also committed
to continue to practiceand do their own work.
I wouldn't be here sitting and looking atyou and talking about this work,
not knowing thatI am also a work in progress
and that I think for all of our staff,
(49:34):
we have practices and toolsthat help us continue to
to look at where are the placeswhere we need work and we need help.
Make sense?
I suppose you can't really show upwell for others if you're not, you know,
sort of continuing to work on yourselfand dig a little deeper.
What has to be done with integrity.
(49:54):
And I think that's what home is test outmore than anything.
Is this for realas this the real deal today?
Really?How is it that they want us to win?
Like they've not experienced that,but they're also testing out our.
Are these folks for real?
Right.
How how do I know I can trust you? Yeah.
And what does that even look like?
(50:14):
I imagine a lot of peopledon't have anybody they can trust.
Yeah,but in a trusting, loving environment,
you know, it's not about service provider.
Service recipient.
You know, sometimesI've got to check so many times, you know,
hey, what's going on with you?
But that's the beauty of the work.
The invitation is both ways.
(50:36):
How do we invite each otherto the best of ourselves?
And how do we challenge that?
What a world we have.
If we were all behaving this way,it's not good and bad or better or worse.
And really, to be paying attentionto what's going on with you,
it's it's not that you are a bad thing.
(50:57):
It's a you seem to be unhappy todayor you're upset.
Let's check in.
What's going on with you?
It's it's a masterclassin mercy and grace.
You know, it requires grace.
It requires a letting go of the hardand fast rules.
It requires a light grasp on things,requires humor.
So at the end of your day,are you pretty much exhausted?
(51:18):
I wouldn't say exhausted.
I would say I'm full.
I'm full and always grateful.
Always grateful for the opportunityand the chance to be trusted.
People trust us with the innermost partsof their lives and their dreams,
and that means a lot to meas a leader in my new role.
I hold that in my heart because I believe,you know, I believe that, yeah.
(51:45):
This work is, is important to all of us.
You know,
in hosting others, we host a deeperpart of ourselves that makes us better.
And I stand on the shoulders of giants.
I always say Ithis work is is personal and political
in a lot of ways, because it is aboutdisrupting the status quo.
(52:06):
And I come from a simple dream, you know,I always say I was carried into the world
by a woman whose only dreamit was to wear shoes one day.
And through my journey,I've gotten to know the soles of my feet.
And I stand now and with the privilege
and honor to,I get to choose what I do for a living.
(52:27):
I get to work with people at the margins,
and I get to honor their dreams.
And that makes me feel fullat the end of the day.
That's so lovely.I want that for all of us.
If there's any way we can continueto expose what you're doing, it's
so valuable.
It's so valuablefor the people that come to you
(52:48):
that you're ableto help move forward with their lives.
But it's such a valuable experience
for us to watchand see how we can lift each other up
just by coming from a place of loveand trust
and thinking about each otherfrom a loving place,
and from knowingthat everyone comes from love.
(53:12):
And there's just so many living examplesof true miracles.
I mean, and I would love the opportunityfor for their stories to be told.
As one homegirl recently said to me,we have an invitation,
a partnership with womenand young girls in Syracuse.
And the home girls are the superstars.
(53:33):
They get to go tell their stories.
And I had someone who came and said,
surely I know you're going to say no,but you got to trust me.
I have to take this young womanwho at the age
at a very young, at the age of 11,she was she got a life sentence.
She said her story needs to be heard.
And I'm like, I don't know if she's ready.
(53:53):
And she's like, just trustme. And I looked at her.
I said, I trust you.
Her story needs to be heard.
And so I always believethat stories need to be heard and told,
and that if we develop the containersfor people to own their voices
and elicit their voicesand they can sing their songs,
and all of us
(54:15):
can be better from from listening to,
to their songs, you know,everyone has a song to sing.
I think it's our jobto develop the containers
and the kind of the kind of conditionsthat will elicit the voices
and allow people who'd never thoughtthey had something to say
(54:36):
to stand in the power of their stories.
And we have so many living examplesof people who are my heroes,
because I've seen them come throughthose doors,
had sometimes bowed an inabilityto sometimes give you eye contact,
and now they're like therapists,and they're holding other people.
Because they discoveredthat they do have a voice
(55:00):
and that they are meaningfuland they are not that bad thing.
They did as you said. Yeah.
They just they started to believein their own goodness.
They started to believe in themselves.
And again, our job was to just hold upthe mirror so that the day would come
when they would see what we saw in them,which was everything they needed.
(55:20):
They already had their gift to the world.
So is there a story you could share?
There's so many storiesI carry in my heart.
Things I've heard that I'll never forget,or things I've seen
that I'll never forget. Like,
I'll never forget a person
coming through the doorwho said, I learned to.
(55:40):
I learned to weigh dopebefore I learned how to ride a bike.
Or someone who said to me, I asked them,how old were you when you joined the gang?
And that person said, the womb.
There's just so many stories.
But one of the stories I think aboutis a young woman who, in my early days,
she had already done her time andthere was no one in her system of care,
(56:05):
who could receive her home.
She finally got to go home.
I remember when she was releasedfrom juvenile detention camp,
and I was driving her home,and she would tell me, like, what streets
to avoid and what streets to go down,
because if people would see herin the car, we could be at risk.
And I think her care and attention
(56:25):
really, again,even though she had not been afforded
that or experience, thatthere was this abundance of love she had.
There's another timewhere the same person, I could tell
she was strugglingand she had, few dollars
and she was trying to exchange
some dollars, and I could tellshe was up to something not good.
(56:45):
And then I said, I have change.
And she had $100 bill.I said, I have change.
And she looked at meand her eyes got all watery,
and she said, I can't do that to you.
And I said,I can't let you do that to yourself.
You know.
But I think aboutthose are acts of love and loyalty.
And she said,
I know
I became a gang member,but I never, ever lost my soul.
(57:09):
And so there's a deep knowing.
I feel like so many peopleget so caught up in this thing
that they're doing thatthey don't even realize they have a soul.
And as you said,they often think they're the
equivalentof the worst thing they've ever done.
How do they.
That's a lot to balance then.
Yeah,I would say that most of the folks I me
(57:32):
because it wasn't really a choice
to just the most generous,loving people I've ever met.
And so there is this connectionto their soul
and and to God and to spirituality
that when you know gang members, you know,wow, they've got so much to teach me
(57:52):
about God
and love, eventhough their behavior would say otherwise.
You are so fortunate.
Thank you. I am. We are.
If we go to the margins, we know
that our lives will be transformedby the people we meet there.
And that'swhat's happened to us at homeboy,
not just to me, but every single personis part of that movement.
(58:14):
Well, there's so much for all of usto learn, especially in the situations
where we aren't treating each other well,
where we are taking
giant communities and dismissing them
or putting them over herein the bad section.
And there's obviously, from whatyou're doing, and it clearly works.
(58:36):
There's so much to learn, and there areso many better ways to treat each other.
Yeah, there's no such thing for us is goodand bad.
We're all in be good, as FatherGreg teaches us.
And you know,we don't believe in black and white.
We believe in the gray area.
And that's where we live at, homeboy.
There is a homie says he calls itthe grace area.
(58:56):
You know,that's that's our that's our way.
So what's next? So much is next.
We again continueto evolve in response to the needs.
We know that context is comes beforecontent.
We know that we are facing
a mental health epidemic nationallyin a way we've never seen.
(59:18):
We know that synthetic drugsare on the in the community,
and they're changing how traumais presenting itself at the door.
And so we need to do our workwith attention
to what we've done isand going to continue to work.
So how do we evolve?
How do we create higher levels of care,a continuum of care
(59:39):
where people can, transitionand get housed
and get sanctuary and be able to get wellbefore they come into community?
So currentlywe're working on wiring a property
where we will extend our campus to provideresidential treatment
for folks that are coming home who that's,
(01:00:02):
who may need, again, more of a,
sanctuary and wellness and substanceabuse treatment
in, in a, in a way that is confidentialand and a home for people.
And is this closeto your current facility?
It is it's it's close to there.
We have lots of projectswhere we are creating more quality jobs
and opportunities to have healingcentric workforce development hubs
(01:00:26):
throughout the county
and offer more opportunities for peopleto live their whole lives.
We're also, again, always have an eyetoward organizational health and wellness.
So developing leadersfrom within continues
to be part of our commitmentto our flourishing.
So how we develop a cultureof learning and development
(01:00:48):
for all our staffis is really important for us.
And then really leading the wayon alternatives to incarceration and being
a model, not just for Los Angeles County,but for the country in the world.
How do we, through our global homeboynetwork, continue to be a movement
that announces to the worldthat, you know, systems of care
(01:01:09):
can replace systems of punishment, andthat's so important and exciting for us.
We live in the hope of that.
Very. And Father Greg is
traveling internationallyand speaking to this, is that right?
Absolutely.
He's, continues to just be livingsaint and a genius, that.
Superstar.
(01:01:30):
That rolls up his sleevesand is more than anything,
continuesto practice the philosophy of the work.
Because there's the philosophy, the work.
And then there is
I think the, the practice of every day
is what really helps you understand
and not just trust
(01:01:50):
that folks will tell you what they need,but that you'll be trusted
and inviting people to thingsthey never imagined was possible for them.
What a beautiful feeling that must bewhen you see it happen.
Yes, when you get to help somebodydiscover who they really are.
And it's it's exquisitely mutual. Always.
Yes, it goes both ways.
(01:02:12):
And that's the beauty of it,that there's a joy and a celebration.
And in the moment,it's also about being present
and understanding that sometimesall that is promised is this moment.
And how do we rejoice in that momentand delight
in each other and not get so caught upin what we bring to the table?
But just that the gift is the momentthat we have, and that nothing and no one
(01:02:36):
is ever a waste of time because deathis around the corner for our folks.
That's the reality.
They live in communitieswhere even if they've changed your life,
they're like warzones and the worldcontinues to be unsafe and unpredictable.
For folks who have had to live incommunities where survival is
the priority.
(01:02:56):
We don't want that for any of us. No.
We want to transform our communities.
Yes, and we're doing that.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for doing what you do.
And really, you're kind of like the bootson the ground version of what it is
we're trying to do with our podcastand our message
and Doctor Bale'swork, one person at a time.
(01:03:18):
Everybody has value.
Everybody comes from a place of love.
Everybody deserves to live their life
being their best, authentic self.
Absolutely.
And the wars and traumawe see outside of us
are the wars and traumasthat we have inside. And
(01:03:40):
wow, if we can help each
other, get rid of that, undo that trauma,undo all the trash we feel
we have to carry, how much better offwe'll all be.
And I again, I thank you so much for whatyou do, and I thank you for being here.
And how can people get to youto offer financial support?
(01:04:01):
Where would they gojust to find out more about you?
Because the organizationis so fascinating.
Yeah.
Well, again, Hope has an addressand we have a website,
where you can visit usand contribute to our mission.
Every dollar receivedis dedicated to the healing
and wholeness of peopleon the margins and second chances.
(01:04:24):
And so we hope that we continueto get the support
we've gotten through the yearsso that we resist the urge to go backwards
and that we continue to investin the solution.
And again, systems of care and community
that really honor the the best in people.
And I love thatyou said resist the urge to go backwards.
(01:04:47):
That holds truefor each of us as individuals,
whether we've struggled or not.
And and also as communities.
It's it's you have to think twiceto make sure you're not backing up.
Yeah.And everything begins with an invitation.
I thank you for the invitationto be here and talk about our work
and about the courage requiredto change and transform your pain,
(01:05:09):
so you stop transmitting it.
How do we change things is throughinvitation and through commitment
to receive each otherand that transforms all of us.
It does.And I'm inviting you back. Thank you.
And I'm inviting you to bring
some of those fabulous individualswho would be happy to share their stories.
There's so much for all of us.
(01:05:30):
They're my personal heroes,and I would love for them to get to,
in their own voice, talkabout their resiliency and their journeys.
Well, let's do that.
So if I'm going to find you,am I going to Homeboy Industries?
Org talk or. Homeboy Industries during.
Homeboy industries.org?
(01:05:51):
Check it out.
It's a great website and there's so muchinformation you'll find it fascinating.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening and pay attentionbecause we're going to be
doing more of thiswith our wonderful guest today.
Thank you Shirley. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
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