June 24, 2025 • 66 mins
In this deeply introspective episode of And Now, Love, Cynthia Marks and Dr. Loren Weiner continue their exploration of the unconscious, delving into the subtle yet powerful ways the maternal imprint shapes our identity, relationships, and sense of worth. Drawing on Dr. Bernard Bail’s psychoanalytic theory, Loren explains how early imprints formed in the womb—and reinforced in childhood—manifest in patterns of self-sabotage, shame, and disconnection. Through the lens of dream analysis, Cynthia and Loren reflect on how the unconscious reveals our inherited emotional burdens and offers a path toward healing and self-reclamation. The episode underscores the critical importance of validating one’s emotional truth, confronting internalized judgments, and reconnecting with love as a healing force. With compassion and clarity, they call for a collective reevaluation of how we treat women, children, and the unseen emotional world we all carry. This conversation is both a call to consciousness and a guide for those seeking to liberate their authentic selves.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks.
I head up the Holistic PsychoanalysisFoundation,
founded by my latehusband, Doctor Bernard Bail.
Welcome to and now Love.
Hello.
Loren Weiner. Hi. Welcome back. Thank you.
Loren, as we've said many times,because we love having her here
(00:25):
is a psychologist here in Los Angeleswith a very busy practice.
And we're so fortunate to have her investso much time and love here with us.
And todaywe're going to talk about change.
That's a big topic.
So here you go. Right.
Big, big topic change.
(00:46):
But everybody wants to know
at the end of the daywe're talking about all of this therapy.
Looking at your dreams, doing everything.
What happens. How do you change.
What does it look like.
So I think we can talk about changein a few ways.
We can talk about iton the individual level.
Our feelings about it.
I think most people know the old ideathat we are all very afraid of change.
(01:09):
We don't like it.
We like things to go along.
As we've known them,even if they are terribly uncomfortable.
At least we know it.
So we can talk about that
system of shifting thingsin someone's life
and how you attend to the fear
that comes up around that, even thoughit's why they've come to see you.
(01:31):
I need change.
And then we can look at it on thethe bigger scale,
which is the collective,the whole group of us, the whole world.
All of. Us.
Well, as you were talking about, what'shappening to the individual, I'm thinking
I can just point to thatall over the world.
Right? Right.
And then you get a whole group of ustogether, and we're all afraid
to change in our own way.
(01:53):
And then you put a whole group of ustogether.
You can imagine.
What does it take to get change?
Real change.
On a big national or global scale.
And that's not going to happenunless we figure out how to make
some of these changesas individuals. Absolutely.
The biggest pieceI think is each person working on change,
(02:17):
addressing the blocks to change
gets you a step
closer to the whole groupbeing able to make bigger shifts.
Now not everybody's goingto have the luxury to be able to do that.
That's okay.
Those who can who can go insidelook inside.
That's where we all need to be going.
(02:39):
That's going to help. Everybody will will.
You know if some people can't that's okay.
Well we just need enough.
Some of those people who can'tor who don't have the luxury to do that,
that may be comingfrom 33 different points of view.
Maybe you don't have the timeand maybe you're so busy
with your family,whatever your family is, kids.
(03:02):
Maybe you're fighting for.
Your rights.
Maybe you're fighting for your life.
Maybe you just wantto put food on the table.
That's right.
Maybe you don't even have the wherewithalto consider those things for some reason.
That's right.
But even if that were the case,if someone just was stuck in their box,
what's to say in terms of their feelingsor their emotions and,
and doesn't have an ideathat they can expand or change
(03:24):
in that realmif they are with people that have changed
emotionally, they're going to startto be affected by that.
Yes, I think we all can lift
each other up, just as you know,we can bring each other down.
There are people aroundwho have the luxury to look inward,
spend some timesorting through all of your stuff.
(03:47):
You know, looking at your dreams,exploring things as we've talked,
keeping in mind there's an imprintand we can talk about that a little again.
But to really, if you're doing thatand you have the luxury,
then yes, you do itand you will lift everyone around you.
That energy does transfer,but it also goes the other way,
which is why it's so important for us.
(04:09):
So if we are all bogged down
right then we are
also putting that energy outand it will pull us down.
So yeah, you know, you're lucky if you canif you want change in your life
and you're lucky enoughto have ways to get it.
And I'm talkingabout emotional change here, then
it really is importantbecause it does help everyone.
(04:32):
This isn't purely a selfish act.
So I think people worry, oh my gosh,can I in the midst of all this,
can I really be focusing on myselfin my own little problems
in this corner of the world?
And I'm upset about this and this?
Yes, you have to.
In fact, if if you're drawnand called to that and you have an ability
to do it, do it because you're goingto start changing the system
(04:56):
one little piece at a time,and it all impacts.
And wouldn'tthere be a reason for us to think that
even though we think we've got itall going on, that we're doing everything
the right way in terms of our feelingsand the way we love
and the way we receive love and whatwe gift to the world or our communities,
(05:18):
even if we think we've got itall figured out, we still really ought to,
for our own benefit,and those around us still investigate.
That's my preference.
You know, I just always thinkthere's something to be gleaned, you know?
And a lot of it iswe can know ourselves in many ways.
You can often be very surprised
(05:40):
by what your dreams will show you.
You have an attended to.
And a lot of that is simplybecause the unconscious is what it says.
It is unknown to us.
It is unconscious.
So, and the dream is the keyto our unconscious, where
all our junk resides.
Yeah.
(06:01):
Freud said dreams are the royal roadto the unconscious and being followed up.
And really, you know,
delved into it as deeply as he could.
And it showed. Yes.
Dreams will tell you all kinds of things.
Yes, they'll tell you,you know, your earliest traumas.
They'll tell you your biggest hurts.They'll tell you where you're stuck.
They'll tell you also, is, you know,
(06:23):
what has to change in the world,potentially what systems need to die,
what's no longer working inyou and out there.
Right?
They may tell you,where your connection to spirit is.
They may tell you where you need to be
more open to receiving love,where you need to push yourself more.
(06:44):
So truly, are unconscious,is connected to everything,
and we all connect through itwith each other.
That's why you working on yourselfimpacts other people.
You know that happens.
And so yeah, if you have a chance toto take a look at your dreams,
(07:05):
I know everybody doesn't have a person
to go through their dreams with them,but at least if you can,
you know, listen to this,listen to the things we talk about.
Listen to the way certain people dream.
You know,some of the dreams I've talked about go.
I think you start to get a sense, oh,my God, this isn't
just one small thing happening at nightand you don't pay any attention to it.
It's the key to unlocking everythingabout who you really are,
(07:29):
what you're doing here, your purposeand where you're going.
Well, who doesn't want some of that,
I mean, there's nothing more valuablethan figuring that out.
Yeah. So it's amazing.
You know, I spend my days.
Luckily, I'm so blessed.
I spend my daysdelving into people's unconscious
and listening to dreams all day.
So I can tell you.
(07:50):
Yes, they tell us everything you know.
Now, am I going to catchevery little thing that is a predictor
of what's going to happen? Not always.
But I will tell you, a lot of timeswe can go back and say, oh, you know what?
Wow. You did kind of have a sensethat that was coming or,
you know, maybe we'll focus on somethingbecause in your own world, the leaders,
(08:12):
the rulers,the presidents, the dictators or whomever
in your own life have to change, right?
You have to stop idealizing them.
You have to stop treating themas though they are your parents.
Right? That's what we do.
We make all of our leadersinto our parents.
And then, like children,we let them do anything they want.
(08:35):
And you don't question that at the.
Question, you know, you don't question it.
So we may interpret that meaning, talkabout it on a personal level.
Because for that patient, that person,that's what they have to do.
But that doesn't meanthat isn't also a dream describing what
all of usdo, that we all go out there and take
(08:55):
however we were treated as young children,whatever our imprints were.
So these pieces of negative informationwe received that dictate
how restrict our life is going to be.
Am I allowed to be happy?Can I be loved? Can I be successful?
Should I stay alive or kill myself?
Simple messages right?
(09:17):
So depending on what those
are, we then bring that
and and our relationship to our parents
and how we had to just thinkthat our parents were like gods.
So we take in the messages from themand then we go live them.
Because of course,this is what God told me to do.
(09:37):
But we then do that with our leaders
that, you know, so then we're movingfrom the individual to the group.
We do this as a group,and this is why we have people
all over the world, politicianswho get to do whatever they want.
Basically, yes, we vote for them.
Yes, we can vote them out.
But often,what's the complaint? Corruption.
(09:59):
There's corruption.
And somebody leaves office and even you,you thought they were a good person,
lady, you find it? Oh, corruption. Right.
But in the moments too many people,because of their individual histories,
their idealization of their parents
and their imprints,so they've taken their suffering
and made it a good thingso that they can tolerate it.
(10:22):
And something you do not question.
Something you don't question.
This is just me and how my life goes.
But that then lets us not argue and
and push back on politicians and demandthat they actually serve the people.
No, you don't get to enrich yourself.
You work for us, right?
(10:43):
But we don't all demand it inin a strong enough way.
Now, occasionally it rises up.
You get a rebellion.
But we sort of many of us,
most of us are unconsciously programedjust to walk the line,
just to remain still rather than speak.
What we know deep inside of usmight be a truth we should profess.
(11:06):
Yes, and hopefully
there is that spark
inside of people,you know, that still allowed to commune.
I don't know if that something aboutthat doesn't feel right to me now.
Maybe they don't then act on it.
But yeah,we want to say to people, you know, now
you have to get that in the right spotbecause sometimes the imprint,
(11:27):
sometimes the messageswe got have so distorted who we are.
See, if I'm not to have love, thenI might really think that any politician
who's giving something, not loving,meaning some plan that is not good.
But I might think, well, that sounds greatbecause I'm not to have love anyway.
So this completely lines up, right?
(11:49):
And I will tell you,this feels right to me now.
Okay.
You know, and thatif this is not a political party specific,
this is anywhere, you know,this could be the rules in a company.
This could be the way you set up the rulesin your family.
Right?
If you were not to have love, rulesthat don't support love
will probably feel okay.
(12:10):
And then we have to go inand sort of surgically explore
that enough,see if it's true, and then set about
putting it in the right order,getting your feelings in the right line.
Sometimes that means, believe it or not,actually resurrecting your feelings.
Because if you are in a situation
(12:31):
where early on you're told so many times
via an imprint, via the way you'retreated, that your feelings do not matter,
you're not really to be a human being.
And this isn't a matter of a parentliterally saying that to you, right?
It's it's just what you come to knowby their feelings,
their reactions, their lack of seeing.
(12:54):
You and how much they are allowedto have feelings.
Right?
You know, oftentimesit's it's yes, it is quiet.
This is not people beating youthat happens.
But most of the time it's quiet.
And your motheror father don't know anything else either.
That's what they developedas their comfort zone, this little arena
(13:15):
whereI don't really have to love or be loved.
I if I stay here and I don't break
that shell, I'mgoing to at least be comfortable.
Yeah, I might be uncomfortable,but comfortable in that.
What I'm not doing is pushingagainst any of the very early rules
(13:36):
that were laid down by my parentsabout how my mind is allowed to function.
Okay, but.
That's so representative out in our world.
I mean, it'sit seems to me that's what we're all
well, not all, but so many of us are doingright now is just,
you know, not bursting that bubble,not even poking a hole in it.
(13:57):
Right. We're not pushing to change.
So that's right.
And that's whyI want to talk about change.
This is this is so important.It's so important in treatment.
I think anyanybody who's been in treatment
or is a therapistknows people come wanting change.
Nobody comes to your officebecause everything is going great.
You may
(14:18):
wrestle with somebody over
changing for a long time, you know.
So I'm always looking now.
Also, some people come in,they want to please you.
So it looks like they've changed.
They have learned how to be really smart,really good patients.
Oh yes doctor, everything is now.
I did exactly.
You know, you said this,I, I do this, you know, you have to.
(14:40):
It's part of the reason
you try to not give people any advicebecause it's very easy.
There's. Oh, I did exactly what you said.
But then they don't ever have to think.
They don't have to feelwhat is right for them.
Can you, as someone who's been doing thisfor so long
and see that in a patientpretty easily, or.
I mean, sometimes, yes.
But some people are really good at it.
So what do I do?
(15:01):
I can only go to the best tool I know,which is I have to see what you dream.
Because that will show mewhat's really going on.
And this stance that these individuals
can develop with you and say,I understand, I get it.
That's coming from their unconscious.
I'm sorry, the same placethat their dreams are coming from. Yes.
So you're always I think you want to goto the source right.
(15:24):
And and look, let me say a lot of timespart of the learning, you know, is
you might take something
in intellectually meaning, you go, okay,now I get the lay of the land.
I'm starting to understandthe things we've been talking about.
Then the the big piece and where you're
where things actually have to change iswhen they go from the head to the heart.
(15:46):
So when we are moving thingsfrom our masculine intellectual side
into our feeling receptive, feminine
side is where change happens, right?
And so we are really looking to first say,okay, you know, can you get these ideas.
All right. Good.
And now can you feel them now.
(16:07):
Oh wait a minute.
But feelings are toughbecause your feelings were to be truncated
and shut down.
Okay.Then we have to work to release that.
Open it upand then see what, who and what you are.
Once your feelings come back online,
right?
Because people think, oh, but I feel,what are you talking about?
(16:28):
Nobody's walking around like a robot.
You'd be surprisedhow the dreams will show
that even somebodywho looks overflowing with feeling
may not be able to utilize feeling,actually, even though it's spilling out,
they may not really on a day to day basis,
be able to use their feelingsto guide how decisions are made.
(16:52):
Those feelings that are spilling outmay or may not.
Also be their own.
Often we take in the feelingsfrom people around us,
mostly our parents, but certainly siblingsand aunts and uncles and others.
We use them like they're ours.
We have opinions that seem to showwe have strong feelings about things,
(17:12):
but often those really are just thingswe have
had to put on, not us also.
So there's a lot of digging now.
Each time you let go of somethingthat isn't yours, that's a change.
But usually
because change is fundamentally scarybecause at the root,
(17:35):
every time you change,you're really saying,
mom and later, dad, these
imprints, these rulesthat you gave me to live by,
I'm going to start to not do that.
Now. You getwhen you receive this set of rules,
it is a very traumatic,very painful, completely unconscious.
(18:00):
I want to say that again,completely unconscious
method way that happens.
So you don't know what's happened, butyour unconscious self is very busy going,
oh my God, we were just completely invadedand wall it off.
Seal it away. Don't ever.
That's radioactive. 20 walls of concrete.
(18:21):
Don't go near it.
We need major protection.
Major, major now.
And we put it out of sight.
We completely repress it.
We get rid of it.
Now, it doesn't mean because that's.
That's a psychological trick.
It doesn't mean it's actually gone.
It is still, in fact, completely
guiding every single thing we do.
(18:43):
Okay.
We don't know it because, like,what are you talking about?
What imprint?
What set of rules? We don't know it.
Give us a simple example
of what one of those thingsmight be that we wall off.
That still rules us. Yes.
So if we take a really simple, very,very common imprint, I am not to be loved.
(19:04):
I am not lovable.
Okay,
now, you don't know you've gotten that.
You might feel that somewheredeep inside, right?
You know, and this doesn't mean it'soh my God, nobody will talk to me
when I go out in public.
But it just may meanyou're carrying this feeling.
You know,some people are going to label that,
oh, I might have a little low self-esteem,but there's a root for that.
(19:27):
There's a reason you have low self-esteemthat didn't just come out of nowhere.
So something like that.
Now you don't realize, but you've got thisimprint that is saying,
I'm not I don't really feel lovable.
Now guess who you're going to go pick
when you choose a partner,
right? It doesn't matter.
(19:48):
You know, a woman, man, whatever you'rechoosing, you're going to find somebody
who in some way will validate
that fundamental feeling in some way.
I've done that, okay.
Most people have done that.
It's almost like you'reyou find this individual who's,
(20:08):
you know, very much like you obviouslyin that particular arena,
and you invite theminto your little bubble and then
you still don't pierce that bubblebecause you don't need to now you.
Right, right.
And this just confirms. Right? Okay.
And it's a tough relationship.
But I know this person loves me well.All right.
So unconsciously you've gota very distorted definition of love.
(20:32):
Sure. Right.
You know, it is
just you pay attention to me, you call me,you say you want to be with me.
You may be lovingish towards me sometimes, but often I'm.
I'm so frustrated.
I'm so disappointed. Right.
So the imprint that walled off piece,that message of I am not to be loved
is dictating who you've picked
(20:54):
and and how you feel about it,and that you hold it in place
that you don't go, you know, thisthis person is really just not so great.
And I think actually I've hit my
limit on this and nothings, yes,it may happen down the line, but
but it takes a whileand you're wrestling with it.
Oh it's so you know when people say,oh my God, my friends broke up ten times
(21:14):
and they keep getting back together
and we all can seethis is not a great relationship,
but it suits my imprintand I will not change.
I will not let that gobecause that means I have to know.
I have to push againstwhat's hiding in that concrete room,
and that it almost killed methe first time it came around.
(21:35):
I have a walled it off.
If I go back to touch that again,I might die.
Yeah, no thank you.
I can't take that.So now you know why change is scary. Yeah,
I might die.
That's. There's nothing scarier.
That's part of this is sitting at the rootof why we have all these defenses.
You know, they're all designed to hold
that toxic bomb in place.
(21:59):
So we're scared,so we don't want to change.
All right, so now we've got an entireworld population that is afraid to change.
Now, the other piece you might dothe other way, this controls you without
you knowing it isif somebody loving does come along,
you might say, I'm a. Yes.
(22:20):
Oh, looks really good on paper, but,so clingy, calls me so much.
Wanted to send me flowers.
Just it's too much.
It's just too much.You know, I need that one.
Who says they're going to calland doesn't, and then I wait all night,
and it's so excitingbecause maybe they're not going to call.
Oh, maybe they don't love me.Maybe they do. Right?
(22:42):
You know, you can see how everythinggets turned around.
Right now.
I am no longer attracted to somebodywho might give me love.
And in fact, I will.
You know, I might push that person away.
If I'm with somebody,I may provoke fights and arguments
because I think I'm just, you know, I'mso irritated.
(23:03):
So this.
But maybe what I'm really saying is, hey,you know, you were too kind to me
this week.
I better really throw a wrench in this.
Let's get some good fighting going.Yeah, right.
Because I don't know what to dowith that other stuff.
It's awful.
Yeah, right. It is.
So you can see what it does. What?
It scrambled everything all rightnow, how are you clear thinking if
(23:26):
we've gota piece hidden that you don't know about,
that is scrambling how you feeland how you go out in the world.
And this is a problem.
And we're missing out on so much.
And we're missing out on so much love.
On so much love.
Because most of the time, these imprintskeep us in a negative place.
(23:48):
You know anything good.
Doctor Bill and I had some conversations.
I think originally he said no, an imprintis completely negative all the time.
There's. That's it.
Later he changed his mind.
There are some, you know,
there are good things,but they don't give us trouble.
So it isn't that we don't interpretgood things.
We celebrate good things.
You know, any time there is a change,I think that's to be celebrated.
(24:11):
Pat yourself on the back becausethat means you were incredibly brave.
Whatever little big change,
you have to have a bunch of little changeuntil you get to something big.
So celebrate it.
Rejoice, because that means a part of youwas brave enough to go.
You know, I, I, I can tellthis isn't serving
(24:31):
me, and I'm going todo whatever I can to shift.
Okay?
Imprint put on notice.
You don't get to rule everything.
I recall in my conversations with Bernard,
when we were startingto talk about my parents, who I, you know,
thought were the most fabulous parentsa person could have.
(24:53):
And, you know, there's nothing but love.
And and they did some wonderful things.
He he let me sit with thisand talk about this.
And when he finally got me to a placewhere I could think about that, well,
what if what I say they areisn't the real picture?
I allowed myself to say thatthat was already huge.
(25:16):
What if what I've believed for fivedecades is not my truth?
I mean, that's a big deal.
That's a big deal. And then once I
honored that
statement,I began to see things differently.
And it's not that all of a suddenI put my parents in a bad light.
(25:38):
Like, I have to dislike these peopleor hate them.
It wasn't that for me.
It was more like,this is the reality of the situation
and this is what you have to deal with.
What are you going to do now?
Now that you know this door has openedand it's a risk,
am I going to go through that door?
(25:58):
I have no idea what's goingto happen to me if I give away
some of what I have thought is importantfor me to carry in this life, right?
So you're just saying,oh, I let the truth sneak in.
I let it come in just a little bit,and that starts to make a space
and that will shift who you are.
(26:20):
Yeah.
So just as you were saying,just a little bit
felt very worthyeven even for me to say to myself.
You know, just step away from
what you think is realityand then also write about that same time.
I started to think about thatin terms of relationships
(26:44):
that I have with other people in the worldand what I listen to in the world.
And why do I have to assume everywhere
that what I'm hearing is the be all endall right?
Yeah.
You start to question, get curious.
I mean, some of what that does is reallyallows your mind to become curious.
You get the space to reassess things.
(27:07):
And I think that'sa really important idea.
You know, again,it doesn't mean where oh, that's it.
You know, people worry, well,you want me to hate my parents,
hate your parentsor don't hate your parents?
That's entirely up to you.
What I want you to seeis how you actually feel.
Right?
And you had two human beings as parents,
(27:29):
so chances are they weren't perfect.
Now, what we have to seeis, are the parents inside of
you strong enough to tolerate you?
I should say flexibleenough to tolerate you
looking at what kind of
emotional things went on in the familyas you were growing up.
(27:53):
So by that, do you mean that
just within yourself,without having a conversation
with your parents,you challenge the imprint? Yes.
Fundamentally you're challengingthe imprint, but this is just even,
let's say, a first stepwhere you are starting to see.
Right.
You had there was enough flexibilityinside some way.
(28:15):
They were just flexible enoughthat they led a new idea in then.
Then we have to see all right,how much can it trickle down?
How much space is it allowed?
Are you allowed to start, as you said.
Right. Oh,and then I maybe I get curious about this.
Maybe I can get curious about that.
Maybesuddenly everything is up for questioning.
(28:36):
Right?
Because what you perceived to be realitywas not right.
So where else have you gone?Sort of astray.
Yeah.
Where else did I idealizeor have to make perfect.
Right.
Well my, the people around me
whose parents are perfect,nobody's you know what.
Even if they were doing their bestand completely aware
(28:59):
and knew about the unconscious,I mean guess what.
They're still human beings and somewherethey're going to hurt you right.
And unintentionally high clearance.
That's right. You know,this is part of being a human being.
So it isn't so.And then you have to be perfect.
No, it's really just sayingyou just want to be aware.
You want to be able to to be openminded enough to question,
(29:20):
to look, to see and to know what you feel,the truth
of what you feeland the truth of how it really went get.
You had to get your mind right.
If you don't, everything will be skewed.
So we're talking about changekind of in a smidgen of a roundabout way.
If we were to start with the individualand say, what is the path
(29:44):
to making a first step toward change,what what would we be doing?
We'd be looking at our dreamsand we'd be taking a look.
And if somebody is not helping
you do that, then you're sitting therelooking at them and sort of saying,
what's this feeling in the dream?
People like, oh my God, I had a nightmare.
Oh my God, I was being chased, I wasdrowning, I was locked in the closet.
(30:06):
I was frozen as a statue for 20 years.
All kinds of things that most of the time
are telling us somethingabout our emotional state.
You know,you didn't make that up out of nowhere.
There's a connectionbetween you and the affect,
the feeling in the dream,and we want to chase that down a bit.
Get curious.
(30:27):
All right. Well,that was an interesting dream.
People go,I don't know, there's it makes no sense.
So I better you know, that's it.
But it doesn't have to make logical sense.
It has to make emotional sense.
And really every dream is, is showing yousomething inside your unconscious.
I mean, it could be somethingthat you just even wake up and go, well,
that was about the stupidestthing I ever thought of.
(30:50):
Where let's say you're
trying to open a box of mints
and you can't find the cornerto start from, and that's the whole dream.
Wouldn't you just forget that?
Well, not if you're a person who workswith dreams because you say what?
Right? You're telling me something.
What can I not get open? Should be simple.
This should be very easy.
(31:11):
I'm not allowed to open it.
And there's something good inside.
Potentially, we think.
Right.
See, you know, if one likes mints. Okay.
So that it could bethat mom's favorite thing was a mint.
Or it could be somethingabout the coldness.
They're cool.
Right? Mints are typically cooling,you know.
So these these are at least
(31:31):
the questions that start coming withthey cover up bad breath.
Right.
Are they to cover something upI mean, you know right.
We have all kinds of questions.
You have to see what comes to the person'smind.
So each of us, if we.
That's not a dreamI had, I just made it up.
But if that were a dream and you wrote itdown, and as an individual,
(31:52):
I just asked myself all the questions youjust asked, some of them would resonate.
I'd be like, that's right.
My mom love mint or darkchocolate over those mint, whatever it is.
And there would be some thingsthat you would, you would.
You might. Miss.
See, you know
maybe this isn't just nothing right.
(32:14):
My mind isn't wasting time.
Minds don't waste time. They're efficient.
They're going to give you a message.
Now how ready,how free you are to hear the message
may tell us how disguisedthe dream has to be, right? Yes.
You know, people say, well, what if itwants to tell me about my mom being cold?
Or, you know, that she was unable,you know, couldn't you couldn't open
(32:37):
my mother up.
I'll just go along with your your example.
Right?
I couldn't get in.
I could not get in. Right.
Okay.
We're just looking to see now,why might you have had the dream?
What's come up recently?
Does that resonate with you?Why would you need to know that?
Why would you?You know what just happened?
(32:58):
Where the idea that something wasreally hard to access is now in my dream.
Even if you know.
Right,even if we don't get to winter over there.
Mints, maybe.
But maybe it's just.Something was hard to access.
What was it? Yeah.
Okay.
I have two questions before I forget them.
First of all, I just threw that out there.
Did I really just throw that out there?
(33:19):
Well, you have to tell me.
I mean, do we just throw things outor does everything come from something?
Well, I think it all comes from something.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think you have to liveyour life completely freaked out.
Like, oh, I better not say anythingbecause I'm just going to read my mind.
But, yeah, we can only look.
We can really only be everythingthat's inside of us.
(33:42):
Right? There's nothing else.
There's nothing else for each of usas individuals.
That's right.
And look, that I mean, I'm jumping backand forth between the individual
and the world, but this is areally important piece for the world.
We can
only be who we are inside.
So if we are complainingabout the systems of government, we have,
(34:04):
then the place we have to change first
is not the government system
change who you are inside you?
Then you will create
a good government because you are now.
You are the change person.
(34:25):
Yes, you are a person who can now be ruledby love, open to love and give love
and create systems of governmentand laws from love.
And be brave enough to speak from love.
Although then that's not even bravery,it's just kind of organic.
Yes, that's right, you can't not do it.
(34:47):
The more in touch with it you are.
But so that's a really important piece.
And I'd stop therebecause it makes me think of that, that
if we're really goingto, you know, again, I've said it before,
but if you want to change the world,do not start out there in, in, in.
Everybody go inside becausewe can only make what we are inside.
(35:10):
You might imagine something big,but you know, it's.
And what you were saying before.
Oh now. Right.
What system of government could I make ifmy parents had to be perfect in my mind?
Well, you might make one.
But if there's a problem,you're not going to be allowed to see it.
You're going to have to go along with itbecause parents are perfect.
So you had to make a systemwhere the leaders are perfect. Yes.
(35:32):
If you can now start to question,you might go, well, it wasn't all perfect.
You know, it wasn't all perfect.
All right, well, that might shift.
Now, what you can create,
what youcan envision, what you can imagine.
And I feel a bit like we have a society
now who is just waiting for somebody else,
(35:53):
you know, to speak their truthfrom their place of love.
And once enough people do that, I'll be
braver and be able to speak to.
But to your point,if we're all understanding
that as individuals,we're needing to get to that
(36:14):
base place of love,
then we're going to be those peoplespeaking up
for what we know is right
based on a loving world.
The more people can be in touch with love,
real love, not hurting anybody,not saying I love you
(36:35):
and then doing crazy things to the person.
Not saying this is for the goodof the people, but writing a bill
that takes away rights or fundingand if everything is focused on money,
money, money,that's never going to be the right system.
You know, we've gotten way off track.
Money money money money money powerpower power.
(36:57):
Okay, well,that doesn't do human beings any good.
Fundamentally, that doesn't help usevolve and grow and change.
That just lets us stay in the samething, will shift the money
to you, shift the power to you, will fightyou and kill you to get it back.
We'll move it over there.We'll do all these things.
No change, no. We do better.
(37:17):
And nobody feels better.
And. And we've got so much money.
And yet we've got people,you know, suffering.
Right? You know, they don't have enough.
So how is that loving doesn't workand it won't work.
And what it will is it won't hold.
That doesn't hold together.
That eventually crumbles and falls apart.
(37:37):
But back to your question.
Do we say things that come fromnowhere? No.
It all comes from who we are inside.
And that's why the we've gone everywhereelse.
We've gone to space.
They want to go live on Mars.
You know you want it out, out, out.
Okay, but how about the finalfrontier is really the within the deep.
(37:58):
Deep within its own vast universe.
Enormously vast.
I mean, I think vast beyond anybody'swildest imagination.
Everything's in there.
So we want to change.
Now, if you're working with somebody,
what does it look likewhen they start to change?
Obviously, change is incremental.
We get little pieces as we go.
(38:19):
So you will start to see thingslike the house I grew up in
and I went backand all of a sudden in people's dreams.
So they'll tell me, oh, in my dream,I flew back home,
I drove out, you know,the house is way out in the country.
And I look, oh, all of a sudden I noticed
construction workers were pulling itdown, beam by beam.
That's right.
(38:40):
The treatment is now pulling apart
the old foundational piecesof your mind, piece by piece.
But you will show that in the dream.
So that tells me I don't just have to saymy patient is a good patient and saying,
oh, yeah, you know,it's better at home with my husband
now, and I have to go, well, I'mnot there to listen.
Maybe.
(39:01):
Right, but now I can see it becauseyour dream tells me something's happening.
And I have seenand I think most people who work this way
know you have to see it in the dream
before you will see itin the outside world, in the patient.
So the the patient has to have a new idea,
a new feelingthat grows deep in the unconscious space.
(39:25):
It has to get worked out there.
Then it emerges up to the conscious,
and the person can do it with the familyor out in the world,
and the life can get better,let's say, not be as difficult.
Sometimes you see it for a long timein the unconscious,
and you're sitting there going,wow, this person's all right.
Progress is kind ofwhere is it? Where is it? Right.
(39:47):
And then you have to look and see whatwhere's the internal saboteur.
Right.
Or the person's enormous fear of changing.
And why aren't they lettingthis new self be seen.
Right.
What are they afraid of?
So, you know, changeis a very interesting thing in treatment
(40:08):
because you have to be very opento looking, you know, you're listening to
to people tell you what theytheir complaints, what isn't going right.
And then you have to see, afteryou've been working for a while.
All right. Well what's happening?
What does the knowledge go in.
Does the infercan you take the information.
And you know, so you'll see the housegetting pulled down all right then I know.
(40:31):
All right. We're on to something.Something's happening.
Okay.
But for that individual going hometo that comfortable place
and getting thereand seeing this happening is devastating.
Perhaps.
Well, perhaps, you know, I think thatthat's when you have to enlist the patient
in giving you their observations,
(40:52):
feelings and associations to the dream.
How did it feel when you arrived?
Now one patient might say, oh my God, Istarted crying because I love this place.
And somebody else would say,oh, good riddance.
That thing was a termite riddentorture chamber.
I'm glad it's coming down.
Very different.
Right? Relationship to it.
But that's why you don't ever interpreta dream in a vacuum.
(41:14):
I can't tell you what that dream means.
Until I hear something from the patient.
I can guess, but I need to know.
People will also dreamabout adding rooms onto homes,
you know, or buildings or I live hereand I suddenly this happens a lot.
And I think it speaksto what you were talking about.
A new idea occurs.
All of a sudden they'll say,I lived in this apartment for 20 years,
(41:37):
and all of a sudden there was a doorI never knew was there.
And I opened itand there was another room.
Most of the time, what that is telling youis the mind is starting to expand.
Okay. So that tells me, oh, good.
I know something's happeningunconsciously.
That might just be so fascinating for you.
You know, just selfishly speaking that toto see these happening
(42:01):
for other it's actually not selfish,but just to say, oh, it works.
The whole thing works.
It's gratifying.
You're really happy, you know?
Yeah.
You try not to do the end zone dance.
Yeah.
Sometimes you do.
Yeah, I there are times, especiallyif somebody has really been working
and struggling with something and,you know, and you just give clap because
(42:23):
because you see it and you feel it,you know, right there something changed.
And when you see what it takesto get something to really change
individually and globally, oh my God.
Right. We do.
You just celebrate it.
So yeah that's athat's a really nice thing.
And hopefully your patientis celebrating themselves right.
(42:46):
You know that you're not the only one.
So I mean obviously if if they're notyou've
got other workto do to, to figure out why.
Not sure because maybe opening that door
and there's another room isI didn't want to I didn't want a door.
I don'tI don't want to go in there. Right.
You have to seeI mean, usually you don't get that
(43:08):
unless you've done enough workthat you're ready to have a door there.
I see, but have a look again.
You have to go in open.
You have to go in.
Not assuming that
what you think abouta symbol is the way your
what you feel about something is the waythe patient's going to feel about it.
(43:30):
Yes, you always have to, you know,
and part of it, that's why I can'tstand up and clap and cheer right away.
I've got to sit thereand give somebody space
to feelwhatever the person's going to feel.
Because maybe we're not cheering today.
So the so those symbols in our dreamsare unique to each of us. Yes.
We can't assume that that dooris the same for everyone.
(43:53):
It's not like, oh, there's the catalogand this door always. Mean, right?
I mean, typically, yes, a door opening onto something, I mean, makes sense.
I think we'd all sort of get that imagery.
Might you not feel excited about itin any given moment?
Sure.
You know, as you said,oh, am I going to pop that balloon?
Am I really going to do it?
Well, you may do it.
And feel terribly guilty.
(44:15):
Oh, I opened the door,but my sisters and brothers don't.
They couldn't do it.
And one died of an overdose.
And, you know, and like,oh, then, you know,
so there's a bittersweet piece in thatthat you may have to attend to.
Now, the here's an interesting symbol issometimes they just paint the whole house.
Hum. Right.
(44:35):
So what do we do with that?
Because it is surface
might mean change or it might mean
I paint it over something or whitewashthe whole place and all the feelings, and.
That it's. Something I might.
But you have to weigh it, you know.
And again, this is, this is when you haveto take all of these little variables.
(44:56):
How what mood is the personand what have they been dreaming about?
What's happening.
Because sometimes
we don't know what that means or which waythe person is going to go with it.
Just upon first examination.
The other piece that happens,and I have a dream I'll share today about
that is sometimes change is happening
(45:17):
and big change might be happening.
And because we are still human beingsand we are still terrified of what
the first contact with the imprintfelt like,
that it felt so awful to us,
unconsciously, unbeknownst to anyonethat was going
on, that we we don't want anythingthat gives us a hint of being near it.
(45:40):
I'll tell you this dream.
So the patient has been workingin treatment for quite a while
and is has made a lot of changes, I think.
And and not just changes that the,the person you know that the therapist
is looking at it and jumping up and downbecause we do
often see things and we go, okay, we knowdown the line that's going to show.
(46:01):
And so you're really excitedeven if the person isn't there yet.
And that could take three weeksor three months or who knows what.
Right.
But this is is objectivelythis person felt yes,
this has changed who I am.
So this person was far left
along in treatmentand had seen the changes, lived them,
appreciated them, had incorporated theminto their being, so to speak.
(46:24):
So this is not a personwho had shied away from changing.
So here's a dream.
I met a place that seems to be run
by the woman who ran the ceramics studiowhere I used to work.
It's like a hospital,
and suddenly I hear very strange noisescoming from the drain.
In one of the rooms.
(46:45):
The drain startsto back up with water and sewage.
I run into the next room to some friendsand the dirty water starts to rise.
They don't seem alarmed, it
only goes up about an inch, butthat's enough to get on some of my things.
I tried to tell people
so they could bring their stuff uponto the beds, but it happened fast
(47:05):
and I didn't have timeto get everything off the floor.
Then whatever causedthis to happen is fixed
and the water recedes and I start tryingto figure out how to wash all my stuff.
There seem to be parts of this building
where you're on high ground and sleep,
and then there are lower levels as wellthat are almost like channels.
(47:28):
I realized that the water must dothis periodically.
Okay, so
I'm listening to mypatient, and the patient says, okay, the
the woman who ran the ceramic studio is
kind of got like an earth mother vibe.
So that's one association.
The next is to the hospitalreminded me of a foreign place,
(47:51):
maybe in the Middle East or Spain,but it was clean and comfortable
and there were all kinds of peoplestaying there and many coming and going.
People were socializing, playing games,and generally
the mood was happy.
Now, if you do this long enough,
you're also listening, going,okay, you're staying at a hostel.
(48:11):
Right. Interesting word.
So you have to think right? Maybe.
Does that have a meaning?
Is there a feeling that's
that's being talked abouteven though everything is happy?
You don't know. But your question it right
before the water
came, there was a banging noiseas the water was starting to flow,
but it was really rattling the pipesand it scared me.
(48:32):
And I started to run aroundand warn people and tell people
to move their stuff.
As soon as I noticed the water.
I suppose at the end of it allit was not a huge problem.
But the sound really scared meas I'm listening to it.
One of the things that stood out was that.
But this place seemed to be a placewhere there was a it was bustling.
(48:52):
There was a lot of life happening here.
People were coming and going and talkingand all right,
so I'm trying to square thiswith what is happening
now. The day before this stream,the patient also had a dream
that was sort of saying the game was up,
basically, that all of the stuffthat the family had been doing
(49:14):
and everything had been sort of airedand brought into the light.
And it was it was done.
Game was over.
And you get a dreamlike this, or what do you do? So
as I'm listening
to the dream, basicallywhat became clear as the person talked
and I saw the person's emotional stateand how they responded and what they were
(49:35):
giving me, that this was really a dreamabout coming to life.
But now we've got the noises of lifeand those noises of life, a free life.
So reminded the person of the noises
of getting the imprintthat it terrified the person.
And all of a suddenthis became a scary dream coming to life.
(49:58):
Finally, this is what we are working for.
This person is really, you know, saying,I am ready to be my fullest self.
And even there,
the imprint and the terror aroundit is so strong.
It works its way into the dreamand there's a banging.
This banging must be the imprint.
(50:20):
But there's no evidence that that's reallywhere the person is psychologically.
So that's why you're alwaysyou can't take a dream out of context.
It's always got to be connectedto the person
where the person is, what the person saysand what the person's feeling.
And the other dreamssurrounding this were.
Before and the other dreamssurrounding this. Right.
You go, okay, the game is up.
(50:42):
If the game is overwhat are you going to do.
Yeah. What's next. What's next. Life.
So then when
you andthis patient walked through this dream.
Yes, they're far enough alongto understand the fear and the imprint.
Absolutely.
The backstop to this.
Far enough along and happy
(51:04):
relieved to say, oh, good,I thought I was backsliding.
Oh, good.
I thought I was like, you know,the game is over and I have to bring
all the sewage water backand I'm not allowed to change.
You know,this was simply a person who did change.
And yet still, you know, thisthis is why I go back to
(51:25):
because change, even when you've done it,
it doesn't mean you may not push throughsome very scary feelings.
You may even, well,my God, am I going to die?
I think I'm going to die.No, you're changing.
That's a good thing.
So sometimes you have to help patientswith that too.
In that dream
where the patient is trying to warnthese other people
(51:49):
that are making the space busy
about the sewage, and they're not reallycaring as much as she is.
Right.
You would be the internal saboteurdid a good job here because it's very easy
to make an interpretation that says, well,all right, you're back with your family.
You were trying to sound the alarm.Your family wasn't listening.
They were going on playing their gamesand doing things and and settle down.
(52:13):
Yeah.
And I don't think anybody would arguewith that interpretation
if you didn't knowwhere the patient was in their mind,
in their own unconscious
and the work the patient had doneand the dream from the day before,
you could make that dream and nobodywould argue, but it wouldn't be right.
It wouldn't be right.
This was a reemergence into life,a fuller emergence
(52:37):
that just carried the residueof getting the imprint.
Just to show you how scarygetting that imprint is, and why
it has shut down change for all of usin our own lives and as a group.
So as an individual with dreams aplenty
(52:58):
and without someone like you,
we can give validity to our dreams.
You better. Yeah.
I mean, I. Think actas if for the. Moment.
The big idea here is. Your dreams. Matter.
They are telling you important things.
No matter how trivial you think they are,they are important.
(53:20):
We may not always get them.
I don't get every dream.
Sometimes I have dreams. I have what?
Where?
What are you trying to say here?
Sometimes my patients primary dreams.
What are you trying to say here?They're not.
You know,sometimes they are hard to penetrate.
And I might have to come back to them.
Or I get a piece.
And the resistance is so strong,you know, you're not.
(53:43):
You're not supposed to be ableto understand it.
And you have to free up some other thingsin subsequent sessions, and you can.
Oh, well, all right.
Look at that.
Now I can see what's emerging, you know.
So they're tough.
I don't expect people at home without helpto get every single thing going on.
I think this is just to say,if you had any doubts,
they do have meaning.
(54:06):
And and it is really our taskto figure out
what they're talking about and get busy.
People need to get busy workingthis intimately
with their own unconscious minds.
This should be with everybody.
If you have the time and the spaceand you sleep.
If you sleep, you dream.
(54:27):
And if you can even catch, they go.
But I only caught a snippet.
Great catch it.
Write it down because it's elusive.
It will crawl away from youso. Fast, so fast.
And then just live with it a littlebecause you're living with yourself.
This is from you.
You made this.
This is.
From no other. Place.
An alien didn't implant this in you.
(54:48):
You made this for good reason.
And as you startto think about these dreams,
or maybe write them down,whatever the process might be
that allows you to retain them,you can start to think about
it in
dreams, sort of sequentially,or think about today's dream
(55:10):
and think about, let me remind myself whatI was dreaming last Friday and Saturday.
What what did I ultimately come awayfeeling?
What was the thing in that dream?
After I asked myself some questionsabout what I saw,
what resonated, and what did I feel?
What else have I felt along the waysince then?
Is it all the same kind of feelingpackaged in different scenarios?
(55:35):
Am I feeling things differently nowbecause I felt that thing then
and and I think you can really startto see some paths
and perhaps present yourselfwith some little clearings.
Yeah.
Places to investigate further. Right.
So I'm having this feeling in my wakinglife, I didn't know I ever felt like this,
(55:58):
but this thing in my dreammade me think about the way
I walked through the flowers,which made me think
about why I was walkingthrough the flowers and
what kind of weird thing was I know,whatever it is.
But yeah, then you you can startto investigate where those feelings come.
From, right?
You're starting to pay attentionto feeling right.
(56:19):
You're starting to just get acquaintedwith,
you know, andand not just these big feelings.
Oh, I got so angrywhen that person said that.
I mean, sure, that's in there, but. Right.
But there's always feelings, you know?
And if there aren't. All right.That's interesting too.
You know, some people say, well,I just feel numb. Okay.
Well, that's intriguing to me.
(56:39):
You know why? What?
Why might someone imaginethat that's become the state
of being probablyall kinds of good reasons.
So whatever it is. Right.
We're just saying you're starting to say,oh, the task is to now start
to really connect to myself,figure out who I am, who am I given
(57:01):
my history, where I was born,who raised me, what happened in my family,
you know, and and if one can also think,oh, and I got an imprint.
I got an imprinting the way
geese are imprinted by their mothers
that says, follow me, do itmy way, and you'll learn to fly.
(57:22):
Well, and.
We all know that's science. That's right.
And they need to do that.
That's how the next generation learns.
We're really no different.
It's just that what comes with oursis this piece.
You get a lot of good thingsthat say, here's how you walk and talk
and present yourself to the world,but you also got a big hot ball of toxic
(57:44):
material on processed,
really intolerable partsthat were too painful in your mother
that she unknowingly, unknowingly,unintentionally passed to her offspring.
And you took it because mommy gaveand we take.
(58:04):
This is, of course, survival, right?
I mean, at the base,it all comes back to survival.
What do you have to do to live?
Well, do you take this in?
But then you've got to do mental
gymnastics to tolerate itso it doesn't blow your mind apart.
And live your life.
You wrap it up real quickly and hide it.
That doesn't stop it from
(58:27):
giving signals
about all of the things contained in it.
That's why you say to yourselfas an adult,
yeah. Yeah.
And some people will say truthfully,
they'll come out and say, listen,my past was just too hard.
I don't want to go there.I don't want to open it up.
I have great respect for that.
Then don't only do what you want to do.
(58:50):
That's okay.
You know, again,maybe everybody isn't going to do that.
Doesn't havethe luxury, doesn't want to do that.
That's okay.
Enough people who can
if they do it, you lift everybody.
And what we're really trying to dois clear out
enough of the toxins,
(59:12):
relax the restrictions enough
that people are able to love each otherand receive love from each other.
Both very simple,
really big ideas that are not happeningenough in the world.
A lot of people thinkthey know how to love.
(59:32):
I will tell you,when you start looking at dreams
and seeing how they interactwith each other, often they don't.
They don't treat each other nicely.
They think they do and they don't.
Or so much toxin was in therethat even in their best efforts
because yeah, there'sa lot of good people out there, you know,
and they're working hard.
They're trying to be good citizens inthe world and, and loving family members.
(59:54):
And they don't realize that stuffjust slips out, you know?
And it doesn't even mean
somebody will be passiveaggressive or something even that much.
It just unconsciously gets delivered whenyou don't mean for it to get delivered.
And so that's why we have to go in.
No, we have itand start disarming it and pulling it away
so we can truly, truly come from love
(01:00:19):
and take in love.
And that's how we change ourselves.
Change your cities, changeyour countries, change the world.
If we can all havea lot more love in our hearts
and work from feelingnot just money, money,
logic, logic.
(01:00:41):
Then you can actually bring
about systems of of government
that work for the people, workfor the people.
So the people are not saying, well,it works for you because you've got money.
But I'm social,
you know, I'm out of love.
Nobody's happy and nobody'shappy right now.
(01:01:02):
People aren't happyfor a whole lot of reasons, but
but that's one of them, right?
I'm unhappy because I took my imprint
and turned it into a government,and now I live under it.
Yeah, well, that's an awful way to go.
Hey, humans, that's an awful way to go.
No wonder everybody is in some wayunhappy, you know?
(01:01:22):
And even if you're not unhappy,look at your neighbors, you know?
And in this lifetime,maybe you're in the lucky group.
Guess what?
The next lifetime,you might be in the unlucky group.
So you know,none of us, we're all shifting and moving
and in this lifetime or the next,if one is allowed to, you know,
one believes in that, you know,you've come here to learn something.
(01:01:43):
So you this isn't one and done.
And I got in the lucky group
so I don't have to think about anybodyelse's problems and let me move along.
Well, I mean, that's a nice fantasy,but it isn't how it works.
There's another generationcoming after you.
Well, there's also another generationcoming after you, you know,
and if you you only care about yourselfand you're safe.
Well, what about your kidsand their kids and their kids?
(01:02:06):
So yeah. Okay.
You had cleandrinking water and clean air to breathe.
Should we let everybodythat pollute the earth to the point
where we don't and children'schildren have nothing had it?
That's not loving.
No. And who wants their kidsto turn around and say, gee, thanks a lot,
Mom and Dad. Right.
Thanks for the big pile of steaming junkyou left me.
(01:02:27):
What do you want me to do with it? But.
But I have to do something with it,like an imprint, or I'll die.
So, you know, these are big things.
If we can get everybodyto be more loving, more loving,
you know?
And even if. If you
can't get fully into your unconscious,you can at least start thinking that.
(01:02:48):
I'm not saying be a doormat or a martyr.
Be loving, think about love.
Try to come from a loving,
compassionate place and understandthat you don't know everybody's story.
You don't know what happenedthis morning on the way to work.
You know that we can all havea lot more grace for our ourselves
and other people around us,and we can start to love ourselves,
(01:03:11):
treat ourselves well.
And that grace that you allow yourselfto have give to yourself,
then allows you to have grace for otherswho have, who have different opinions.
And you.
That's right, that's right.
Different ways of living,different everything.
Speak different languages, right?
In every way.
Okay.
(01:03:32):
But we can be lovingand you can't destroy each other.
We have to come from love.
You don't run around shooting each other.
Well and coming from love.
What sort of
not allow you to do that?
It just wouldn't be in your.You don't. Right?
Or you could say to yourself, gee,that impulse is there.
(01:03:52):
But I it doesn't get to rule the day.
Something else gets to rule the day.
Let me go to my heart and see what I feel.
Let's see where we can work this out.
So, you know, I don't want to be naive.
Obviously there are there are all kindsof things in the world.
But I think if we don't start doing this,then I guarantee there's
going to be bloodshed.
There's going to be more and more bombsand wars and
(01:04:15):
every government will come inand get overthrown and empires
will fall because the system isn't builton the right thing.
The system is built on power and money
and riches, and it is not built on love.
And until it's built on love,it is not the right system.
It isn't.
And again, nobody, even the people who are
never satisfied with
(01:04:36):
the amount of money or powerthey have, are not happy.
They're not.
But it's not the thingthat is bringing joy to anybody.
Right?
If if it work,they would all be amazingly happy people.
They would, and we'd
probably all be in the same boat with thembecause they would be giving and.
It would be great.
Right?
You know, I mean, it may be that oncepeople switch over to using love,
(01:04:59):
thinking about love, using their feelings,they more feminine.
You know, make the shift to a feminineparadigm that, you know, I don't know.
Will money exist? I'm not sure.
I mean, you know, and I say that right?
Wait, what do you mean?
Imagine things like that, you know,where everything you've known
and the way we've always donethings just cease to be the way it's done.
(01:05:22):
Because they don't serve the goal.
And the goal is to be lovingtowards each other.
Which is the waywe can lift each other up, even those
who are not yet prepared to do thatindividually.
Right? Right.
But we get enough people.
You get critical mass. Yeah.
You lift everybody up.
So let's do that.
(01:05:42):
Okay. Loren. Thank you, thank you.
We could talk again I mean again now.
Well, we will talk again,but we could talk now for hours.
Of course I know,but there's a little close to your family.
Thank you.
But it's a pleasure to be here.
Thank youfor letting me talk about these things.
As you can tell, I,you know, I'm very passionate about this.
It is a pleasure.
(01:06:03):
And I always learn from you. Always.
Thanks a million.
Thank you all for listening and watching.
And please continue to watch.
It's super important.
We really want all of us to be operatingfrom our best loving selves.
Follow us,ask us questions and join us next time.
Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks.
I head up the Holistic PsychoanalysisFoundation,
founded by my latehusband, Doctor Bernard Bail.
Welcome to and now Love.
Hello.
Loren Weiner. Hi. Welcome back. Thank you.
Loren, as we've said many times,because we love having her here
(00:25):
is a psychologist here in Los Angeleswith a very busy practice.
And we're so fortunate to have her investso much time and love here with us.
And todaywe're going to talk about change.
That's a big topic.
So here you go. Right.
Big, big topic change.
(00:46):
But everybody wants to know
at the end of the daywe're talking about all of this therapy.
Looking at your dreams, doing everything.
What happens. How do you change.
What does it look like.
So I think we can talk about changein a few ways.
We can talk about iton the individual level.
Our feelings about it.
I think most people know the old ideathat we are all very afraid of change.
(01:09):
We don't like it.
We like things to go along.
As we've known them,even if they are terribly uncomfortable.
At least we know it.
So we can talk about that
system of shifting thingsin someone's life
and how you attend to the fear
that comes up around that, even thoughit's why they've come to see you.
(01:31):
I need change.
And then we can look at it on thethe bigger scale,
which is the collective,the whole group of us, the whole world.
All of. Us.
Well, as you were talking about, what'shappening to the individual, I'm thinking
I can just point to thatall over the world.
Right? Right.
And then you get a whole group of ustogether, and we're all afraid
to change in our own way.
(01:53):
And then you put a whole group of ustogether.
You can imagine.
What does it take to get change?
Real change.
On a big national or global scale.
And that's not going to happenunless we figure out how to make
some of these changesas individuals. Absolutely.
The biggest pieceI think is each person working on change,
(02:17):
addressing the blocks to change
gets you a step
closer to the whole groupbeing able to make bigger shifts.
Now not everybody's goingto have the luxury to be able to do that.
That's okay.
Those who can who can go insidelook inside.
That's where we all need to be going.
(02:39):
That's going to help. Everybody will will.
You know if some people can't that's okay.
Well we just need enough.
Some of those people who can'tor who don't have the luxury to do that,
that may be comingfrom 33 different points of view.
Maybe you don't have the timeand maybe you're so busy
with your family,whatever your family is, kids.
(03:02):
Maybe you're fighting for.
Your rights.
Maybe you're fighting for your life.
Maybe you just wantto put food on the table.
That's right.
Maybe you don't even have the wherewithalto consider those things for some reason.
That's right.
But even if that were the case,if someone just was stuck in their box,
what's to say in terms of their feelingsor their emotions and,
and doesn't have an ideathat they can expand or change
(03:24):
in that realmif they are with people that have changed
emotionally, they're going to startto be affected by that.
Yes, I think we all can lift
each other up, just as you know,we can bring each other down.
There are people aroundwho have the luxury to look inward,
spend some timesorting through all of your stuff.
(03:47):
You know, looking at your dreams,exploring things as we've talked,
keeping in mind there's an imprintand we can talk about that a little again.
But to really, if you're doing thatand you have the luxury,
then yes, you do itand you will lift everyone around you.
That energy does transfer,but it also goes the other way,
which is why it's so important for us.
(04:09):
So if we are all bogged down
right then we are
also putting that energy outand it will pull us down.
So yeah, you know, you're lucky if you canif you want change in your life
and you're lucky enoughto have ways to get it.
And I'm talkingabout emotional change here, then
it really is importantbecause it does help everyone.
(04:32):
This isn't purely a selfish act.
So I think people worry, oh my gosh,can I in the midst of all this,
can I really be focusing on myselfin my own little problems
in this corner of the world?
And I'm upset about this and this?
Yes, you have to.
In fact, if if you're drawnand called to that and you have an ability
to do it, do it because you're goingto start changing the system
(04:56):
one little piece at a time,and it all impacts.
And wouldn'tthere be a reason for us to think that
even though we think we've got itall going on, that we're doing everything
the right way in terms of our feelingsand the way we love
and the way we receive love and whatwe gift to the world or our communities,
(05:18):
even if we think we've got itall figured out, we still really ought to,
for our own benefit,and those around us still investigate.
That's my preference.
You know, I just always thinkthere's something to be gleaned, you know?
And a lot of it iswe can know ourselves in many ways.
You can often be very surprised
(05:40):
by what your dreams will show you.
You have an attended to.
And a lot of that is simplybecause the unconscious is what it says.
It is unknown to us.
It is unconscious.
So, and the dream is the keyto our unconscious, where
all our junk resides.
Yeah.
(06:01):
Freud said dreams are the royal roadto the unconscious and being followed up.
And really, you know,
delved into it as deeply as he could.
And it showed. Yes.
Dreams will tell you all kinds of things.
Yes, they'll tell you,you know, your earliest traumas.
They'll tell you your biggest hurts.They'll tell you where you're stuck.
They'll tell you also, is, you know,
(06:23):
what has to change in the world,potentially what systems need to die,
what's no longer working inyou and out there.
Right?
They may tell you,where your connection to spirit is.
They may tell you where you need to be
more open to receiving love,where you need to push yourself more.
(06:44):
So truly, are unconscious,is connected to everything,
and we all connect through itwith each other.
That's why you working on yourselfimpacts other people.
You know that happens.
And so yeah, if you have a chance toto take a look at your dreams,
(07:05):
I know everybody doesn't have a person
to go through their dreams with them,but at least if you can,
you know, listen to this,listen to the things we talk about.
Listen to the way certain people dream.
You know,some of the dreams I've talked about go.
I think you start to get a sense, oh,my God, this isn't
just one small thing happening at nightand you don't pay any attention to it.
It's the key to unlocking everythingabout who you really are,
(07:29):
what you're doing here, your purposeand where you're going.
Well, who doesn't want some of that,
I mean, there's nothing more valuablethan figuring that out.
Yeah. So it's amazing.
You know, I spend my days.
Luckily, I'm so blessed.
I spend my daysdelving into people's unconscious
and listening to dreams all day.
So I can tell you.
(07:50):
Yes, they tell us everything you know.
Now, am I going to catchevery little thing that is a predictor
of what's going to happen? Not always.
But I will tell you, a lot of timeswe can go back and say, oh, you know what?
Wow. You did kind of have a sensethat that was coming or,
you know, maybe we'll focus on somethingbecause in your own world, the leaders,
(08:12):
the rulers,the presidents, the dictators or whomever
in your own life have to change, right?
You have to stop idealizing them.
You have to stop treating themas though they are your parents.
Right? That's what we do.
We make all of our leadersinto our parents.
And then, like children,we let them do anything they want.
(08:35):
And you don't question that at the.
Question, you know, you don't question it.
So we may interpret that meaning, talkabout it on a personal level.
Because for that patient, that person,that's what they have to do.
But that doesn't meanthat isn't also a dream describing what
all of usdo, that we all go out there and take
(08:55):
however we were treated as young children,whatever our imprints were.
So these pieces of negative informationwe received that dictate
how restrict our life is going to be.
Am I allowed to be happy?Can I be loved? Can I be successful?
Should I stay alive or kill myself?
Simple messages right?
(09:17):
So depending on what those
are, we then bring that
and and our relationship to our parents
and how we had to just thinkthat our parents were like gods.
So we take in the messages from themand then we go live them.
Because of course,this is what God told me to do.
(09:37):
But we then do that with our leaders
that, you know, so then we're movingfrom the individual to the group.
We do this as a group,and this is why we have people
all over the world, politicianswho get to do whatever they want.
Basically, yes, we vote for them.
Yes, we can vote them out.
But often,what's the complaint? Corruption.
(09:59):
There's corruption.
And somebody leaves office and even you,you thought they were a good person,
lady, you find it? Oh, corruption. Right.
But in the moments too many people,because of their individual histories,
their idealization of their parents
and their imprints,so they've taken their suffering
and made it a good thingso that they can tolerate it.
(10:22):
And something you do not question.
Something you don't question.
This is just me and how my life goes.
But that then lets us not argue and
and push back on politicians and demandthat they actually serve the people.
No, you don't get to enrich yourself.
You work for us, right?
(10:43):
But we don't all demand it inin a strong enough way.
Now, occasionally it rises up.
You get a rebellion.
But we sort of many of us,
most of us are unconsciously programedjust to walk the line,
just to remain still rather than speak.
What we know deep inside of usmight be a truth we should profess.
(11:06):
Yes, and hopefully
there is that spark
inside of people,you know, that still allowed to commune.
I don't know if that something aboutthat doesn't feel right to me now.
Maybe they don't then act on it.
But yeah,we want to say to people, you know, now
you have to get that in the right spotbecause sometimes the imprint,
(11:27):
sometimes the messageswe got have so distorted who we are.
See, if I'm not to have love, thenI might really think that any politician
who's giving something, not loving,meaning some plan that is not good.
But I might think, well, that sounds greatbecause I'm not to have love anyway.
So this completely lines up, right?
(11:49):
And I will tell you,this feels right to me now.
Okay.
You know, and thatif this is not a political party specific,
this is anywhere, you know,this could be the rules in a company.
This could be the way you set up the rulesin your family.
Right?
If you were not to have love, rulesthat don't support love
will probably feel okay.
(12:10):
And then we have to go inand sort of surgically explore
that enough,see if it's true, and then set about
putting it in the right order,getting your feelings in the right line.
Sometimes that means, believe it or not,actually resurrecting your feelings.
Because if you are in a situation
(12:31):
where early on you're told so many times
via an imprint, via the way you'retreated, that your feelings do not matter,
you're not really to be a human being.
And this isn't a matter of a parentliterally saying that to you, right?
It's it's just what you come to knowby their feelings,
their reactions, their lack of seeing.
(12:54):
You and how much they are allowedto have feelings.
Right?
You know, oftentimesit's it's yes, it is quiet.
This is not people beating youthat happens.
But most of the time it's quiet.
And your motheror father don't know anything else either.
That's what they developedas their comfort zone, this little arena
(13:15):
whereI don't really have to love or be loved.
I if I stay here and I don't break
that shell, I'mgoing to at least be comfortable.
Yeah, I might be uncomfortable,but comfortable in that.
What I'm not doing is pushingagainst any of the very early rules
(13:36):
that were laid down by my parentsabout how my mind is allowed to function.
Okay, but.
That's so representative out in our world.
I mean, it'sit seems to me that's what we're all
well, not all, but so many of us are doingright now is just,
you know, not bursting that bubble,not even poking a hole in it.
(13:57):
Right. We're not pushing to change.
So that's right.
And that's whyI want to talk about change.
This is this is so important.It's so important in treatment.
I think anyanybody who's been in treatment
or is a therapistknows people come wanting change.
Nobody comes to your officebecause everything is going great.
You may
(14:18):
wrestle with somebody over
changing for a long time, you know.
So I'm always looking now.
Also, some people come in,they want to please you.
So it looks like they've changed.
They have learned how to be really smart,really good patients.
Oh yes doctor, everything is now.
I did exactly.
You know, you said this,I, I do this, you know, you have to.
(14:40):
It's part of the reason
you try to not give people any advicebecause it's very easy.
There's. Oh, I did exactly what you said.
But then they don't ever have to think.
They don't have to feelwhat is right for them.
Can you, as someone who's been doing thisfor so long
and see that in a patientpretty easily, or.
I mean, sometimes, yes.
But some people are really good at it.
So what do I do?
(15:01):
I can only go to the best tool I know,which is I have to see what you dream.
Because that will show mewhat's really going on.
And this stance that these individuals
can develop with you and say,I understand, I get it.
That's coming from their unconscious.
I'm sorry, the same placethat their dreams are coming from. Yes.
So you're always I think you want to goto the source right.
(15:24):
And and look, let me say a lot of timespart of the learning, you know, is
you might take something
in intellectually meaning, you go, okay,now I get the lay of the land.
I'm starting to understandthe things we've been talking about.
Then the the big piece and where you're
where things actually have to change iswhen they go from the head to the heart.
(15:46):
So when we are moving thingsfrom our masculine intellectual side
into our feeling receptive, feminine
side is where change happens, right?
And so we are really looking to first say,okay, you know, can you get these ideas.
All right. Good.
And now can you feel them now.
(16:07):
Oh wait a minute.
But feelings are toughbecause your feelings were to be truncated
and shut down.
Okay.Then we have to work to release that.
Open it upand then see what, who and what you are.
Once your feelings come back online,
right?
Because people think, oh, but I feel,what are you talking about?
(16:28):
Nobody's walking around like a robot.
You'd be surprisedhow the dreams will show
that even somebodywho looks overflowing with feeling
may not be able to utilize feeling,actually, even though it's spilling out,
they may not really on a day to day basis,
be able to use their feelingsto guide how decisions are made.
(16:52):
Those feelings that are spilling outmay or may not.
Also be their own.
Often we take in the feelingsfrom people around us,
mostly our parents, but certainly siblingsand aunts and uncles and others.
We use them like they're ours.
We have opinions that seem to showwe have strong feelings about things,
(17:12):
but often those really are just thingswe have
had to put on, not us also.
So there's a lot of digging now.
Each time you let go of somethingthat isn't yours, that's a change.
But usually
because change is fundamentally scarybecause at the root,
(17:35):
every time you change,you're really saying,
mom and later, dad, these
imprints, these rulesthat you gave me to live by,
I'm going to start to not do that.
Now. You getwhen you receive this set of rules,
it is a very traumatic,very painful, completely unconscious.
(18:00):
I want to say that again,completely unconscious
method way that happens.
So you don't know what's happened, butyour unconscious self is very busy going,
oh my God, we were just completely invadedand wall it off.
Seal it away. Don't ever.
That's radioactive. 20 walls of concrete.
(18:21):
Don't go near it.
We need major protection.
Major, major now.
And we put it out of sight.
We completely repress it.
We get rid of it.
Now, it doesn't mean because that's.
That's a psychological trick.
It doesn't mean it's actually gone.
It is still, in fact, completely
guiding every single thing we do.
(18:43):
Okay.
We don't know it because, like,what are you talking about?
What imprint?
What set of rules? We don't know it.
Give us a simple example
of what one of those thingsmight be that we wall off.
That still rules us. Yes.
So if we take a really simple, very,very common imprint, I am not to be loved.
(19:04):
I am not lovable.
Okay,
now, you don't know you've gotten that.
You might feel that somewheredeep inside, right?
You know, and this doesn't mean it'soh my God, nobody will talk to me
when I go out in public.
But it just may meanyou're carrying this feeling.
You know,some people are going to label that,
oh, I might have a little low self-esteem,but there's a root for that.
(19:27):
There's a reason you have low self-esteemthat didn't just come out of nowhere.
So something like that.
Now you don't realize, but you've got thisimprint that is saying,
I'm not I don't really feel lovable.
Now guess who you're going to go pick
when you choose a partner,
right? It doesn't matter.
(19:48):
You know, a woman, man, whatever you'rechoosing, you're going to find somebody
who in some way will validate
that fundamental feeling in some way.
I've done that, okay.
Most people have done that.
It's almost like you'reyou find this individual who's,
(20:08):
you know, very much like you obviouslyin that particular arena,
and you invite theminto your little bubble and then
you still don't pierce that bubblebecause you don't need to now you.
Right, right.
And this just confirms. Right? Okay.
And it's a tough relationship.
But I know this person loves me well.All right.
So unconsciously you've gota very distorted definition of love.
(20:32):
Sure. Right.
You know, it is
just you pay attention to me, you call me,you say you want to be with me.
You may be lovingish towards me sometimes, but often I'm.
I'm so frustrated.
I'm so disappointed. Right.
So the imprint that walled off piece,that message of I am not to be loved
is dictating who you've picked
(20:54):
and and how you feel about it,and that you hold it in place
that you don't go, you know, thisthis person is really just not so great.
And I think actually I've hit my
limit on this and nothings, yes,it may happen down the line, but
but it takes a whileand you're wrestling with it.
Oh it's so you know when people say,oh my God, my friends broke up ten times
(21:14):
and they keep getting back together
and we all can seethis is not a great relationship,
but it suits my imprintand I will not change.
I will not let that gobecause that means I have to know.
I have to push againstwhat's hiding in that concrete room,
and that it almost killed methe first time it came around.
(21:35):
I have a walled it off.
If I go back to touch that again,I might die.
Yeah, no thank you.
I can't take that.So now you know why change is scary. Yeah,
I might die.
That's. There's nothing scarier.
That's part of this is sitting at the rootof why we have all these defenses.
You know, they're all designed to hold
that toxic bomb in place.
(21:59):
So we're scared,so we don't want to change.
All right, so now we've got an entireworld population that is afraid to change.
Now, the other piece you might dothe other way, this controls you without
you knowing it isif somebody loving does come along,
you might say, I'm a. Yes.
(22:20):
Oh, looks really good on paper, but,so clingy, calls me so much.
Wanted to send me flowers.
Just it's too much.
It's just too much.You know, I need that one.
Who says they're going to calland doesn't, and then I wait all night,
and it's so excitingbecause maybe they're not going to call.
Oh, maybe they don't love me.Maybe they do. Right?
(22:42):
You know, you can see how everythinggets turned around.
Right now.
I am no longer attracted to somebodywho might give me love.
And in fact, I will.
You know, I might push that person away.
If I'm with somebody,I may provoke fights and arguments
because I think I'm just, you know, I'mso irritated.
(23:03):
So this.
But maybe what I'm really saying is, hey,you know, you were too kind to me
this week.
I better really throw a wrench in this.
Let's get some good fighting going.Yeah, right.
Because I don't know what to dowith that other stuff.
It's awful.
Yeah, right. It is.
So you can see what it does. What?
It scrambled everything all rightnow, how are you clear thinking if
(23:26):
we've gota piece hidden that you don't know about,
that is scrambling how you feeland how you go out in the world.
And this is a problem.
And we're missing out on so much.
And we're missing out on so much love.
On so much love.
Because most of the time, these imprintskeep us in a negative place.
(23:48):
You know anything good.
Doctor Bill and I had some conversations.
I think originally he said no, an imprintis completely negative all the time.
There's. That's it.
Later he changed his mind.
There are some, you know,
there are good things,but they don't give us trouble.
So it isn't that we don't interpretgood things.
We celebrate good things.
You know, any time there is a change,I think that's to be celebrated.
(24:11):
Pat yourself on the back becausethat means you were incredibly brave.
Whatever little big change,
you have to have a bunch of little changeuntil you get to something big.
So celebrate it.
Rejoice, because that means a part of youwas brave enough to go.
You know, I, I, I can tellthis isn't serving
(24:31):
me, and I'm going todo whatever I can to shift.
Okay?
Imprint put on notice.
You don't get to rule everything.
I recall in my conversations with Bernard,
when we were startingto talk about my parents, who I, you know,
thought were the most fabulous parentsa person could have.
(24:53):
And, you know, there's nothing but love.
And and they did some wonderful things.
He he let me sit with thisand talk about this.
And when he finally got me to a placewhere I could think about that, well,
what if what I say they areisn't the real picture?
I allowed myself to say thatthat was already huge.
(25:16):
What if what I've believed for fivedecades is not my truth?
I mean, that's a big deal.
That's a big deal. And then once I
honored that
statement,I began to see things differently.
And it's not that all of a suddenI put my parents in a bad light.
(25:38):
Like, I have to dislike these peopleor hate them.
It wasn't that for me.
It was more like,this is the reality of the situation
and this is what you have to deal with.
What are you going to do now?
Now that you know this door has openedand it's a risk,
am I going to go through that door?
(25:58):
I have no idea what's goingto happen to me if I give away
some of what I have thought is importantfor me to carry in this life, right?
So you're just saying,oh, I let the truth sneak in.
I let it come in just a little bit,and that starts to make a space
and that will shift who you are.
(26:20):
Yeah.
So just as you were saying,just a little bit
felt very worthyeven even for me to say to myself.
You know, just step away from
what you think is realityand then also write about that same time.
I started to think about thatin terms of relationships
(26:44):
that I have with other people in the worldand what I listen to in the world.
And why do I have to assume everywhere
that what I'm hearing is the be all endall right?
Yeah.
You start to question, get curious.
I mean, some of what that does is reallyallows your mind to become curious.
You get the space to reassess things.
(27:07):
And I think that'sa really important idea.
You know, again,it doesn't mean where oh, that's it.
You know, people worry, well,you want me to hate my parents,
hate your parentsor don't hate your parents?
That's entirely up to you.
What I want you to seeis how you actually feel.
Right?
And you had two human beings as parents,
(27:29):
so chances are they weren't perfect.
Now, what we have to seeis, are the parents inside of
you strong enough to tolerate you?
I should say flexibleenough to tolerate you
looking at what kind of
emotional things went on in the familyas you were growing up.
(27:53):
So by that, do you mean that
just within yourself,without having a conversation
with your parents,you challenge the imprint? Yes.
Fundamentally you're challengingthe imprint, but this is just even,
let's say, a first stepwhere you are starting to see.
Right.
You had there was enough flexibilityinside some way.
(28:15):
They were just flexible enoughthat they led a new idea in then.
Then we have to see all right,how much can it trickle down?
How much space is it allowed?
Are you allowed to start, as you said.
Right. Oh,and then I maybe I get curious about this.
Maybe I can get curious about that.
Maybesuddenly everything is up for questioning.
(28:36):
Right?
Because what you perceived to be realitywas not right.
So where else have you gone?Sort of astray.
Yeah.
Where else did I idealizeor have to make perfect.
Right.
Well my, the people around me
whose parents are perfect,nobody's you know what.
Even if they were doing their bestand completely aware
(28:59):
and knew about the unconscious,I mean guess what.
They're still human beings and somewherethey're going to hurt you right.
And unintentionally high clearance.
That's right. You know,this is part of being a human being.
So it isn't so.And then you have to be perfect.
No, it's really just sayingyou just want to be aware.
You want to be able to to be openminded enough to question,
(29:20):
to look, to see and to know what you feel,the truth
of what you feeland the truth of how it really went get.
You had to get your mind right.
If you don't, everything will be skewed.
So we're talking about changekind of in a smidgen of a roundabout way.
If we were to start with the individualand say, what is the path
(29:44):
to making a first step toward change,what what would we be doing?
We'd be looking at our dreamsand we'd be taking a look.
And if somebody is not helping
you do that, then you're sitting therelooking at them and sort of saying,
what's this feeling in the dream?
People like, oh my God, I had a nightmare.
Oh my God, I was being chased, I wasdrowning, I was locked in the closet.
(30:06):
I was frozen as a statue for 20 years.
All kinds of things that most of the time
are telling us somethingabout our emotional state.
You know,you didn't make that up out of nowhere.
There's a connectionbetween you and the affect,
the feeling in the dream,and we want to chase that down a bit.
Get curious.
(30:27):
All right. Well,that was an interesting dream.
People go,I don't know, there's it makes no sense.
So I better you know, that's it.
But it doesn't have to make logical sense.
It has to make emotional sense.
And really every dream is, is showing yousomething inside your unconscious.
I mean, it could be somethingthat you just even wake up and go, well,
that was about the stupidestthing I ever thought of.
(30:50):
Where let's say you're
trying to open a box of mints
and you can't find the cornerto start from, and that's the whole dream.
Wouldn't you just forget that?
Well, not if you're a person who workswith dreams because you say what?
Right? You're telling me something.
What can I not get open? Should be simple.
This should be very easy.
(31:11):
I'm not allowed to open it.
And there's something good inside.
Potentially, we think.
Right.
See, you know, if one likes mints. Okay.
So that it could bethat mom's favorite thing was a mint.
Or it could be somethingabout the coldness.
They're cool.
Right? Mints are typically cooling,you know.
So these these are at least
(31:31):
the questions that start coming withthey cover up bad breath.
Right.
Are they to cover something upI mean, you know right.
We have all kinds of questions.
You have to see what comes to the person'smind.
So each of us, if we.
That's not a dreamI had, I just made it up.
But if that were a dream and you wrote itdown, and as an individual,
(31:52):
I just asked myself all the questions youjust asked, some of them would resonate.
I'd be like, that's right.
My mom love mint or darkchocolate over those mint, whatever it is.
And there would be some thingsthat you would, you would.
You might. Miss.
See, you know
maybe this isn't just nothing right.
(32:14):
My mind isn't wasting time.
Minds don't waste time. They're efficient.
They're going to give you a message.
Now how ready,how free you are to hear the message
may tell us how disguisedthe dream has to be, right? Yes.
You know, people say, well, what if itwants to tell me about my mom being cold?
Or, you know, that she was unable,you know, couldn't you couldn't open
(32:37):
my mother up.
I'll just go along with your your example.
Right?
I couldn't get in.
I could not get in. Right.
Okay.
We're just looking to see now,why might you have had the dream?
What's come up recently?
Does that resonate with you?Why would you need to know that?
Why would you?You know what just happened?
(32:58):
Where the idea that something wasreally hard to access is now in my dream.
Even if you know.
Right,even if we don't get to winter over there.
Mints, maybe.
But maybe it's just.Something was hard to access.
What was it? Yeah.
Okay.
I have two questions before I forget them.
First of all, I just threw that out there.
Did I really just throw that out there?
(33:19):
Well, you have to tell me.
I mean, do we just throw things outor does everything come from something?
Well, I think it all comes from something.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think you have to liveyour life completely freaked out.
Like, oh, I better not say anythingbecause I'm just going to read my mind.
But, yeah, we can only look.
We can really only be everythingthat's inside of us.
(33:42):
Right? There's nothing else.
There's nothing else for each of usas individuals.
That's right.
And look, that I mean, I'm jumping backand forth between the individual
and the world, but this is areally important piece for the world.
We can
only be who we are inside.
So if we are complainingabout the systems of government, we have,
(34:04):
then the place we have to change first
is not the government system
change who you are inside you?
Then you will create
a good government because you are now.
You are the change person.
(34:25):
Yes, you are a person who can now be ruledby love, open to love and give love
and create systems of governmentand laws from love.
And be brave enough to speak from love.
Although then that's not even bravery,it's just kind of organic.
Yes, that's right, you can't not do it.
(34:47):
The more in touch with it you are.
But so that's a really important piece.
And I'd stop therebecause it makes me think of that, that
if we're really goingto, you know, again, I've said it before,
but if you want to change the world,do not start out there in, in, in.
Everybody go inside becausewe can only make what we are inside.
(35:10):
You might imagine something big,but you know, it's.
And what you were saying before.
Oh now. Right.
What system of government could I make ifmy parents had to be perfect in my mind?
Well, you might make one.
But if there's a problem,you're not going to be allowed to see it.
You're going to have to go along with itbecause parents are perfect.
So you had to make a systemwhere the leaders are perfect. Yes.
(35:32):
If you can now start to question,you might go, well, it wasn't all perfect.
You know, it wasn't all perfect.
All right, well, that might shift.
Now, what you can create,
what youcan envision, what you can imagine.
And I feel a bit like we have a society
now who is just waiting for somebody else,
(35:53):
you know, to speak their truthfrom their place of love.
And once enough people do that, I'll be
braver and be able to speak to.
But to your point,if we're all understanding
that as individuals,we're needing to get to that
(36:14):
base place of love,
then we're going to be those peoplespeaking up
for what we know is right
based on a loving world.
The more people can be in touch with love,
real love, not hurting anybody,not saying I love you
(36:35):
and then doing crazy things to the person.
Not saying this is for the goodof the people, but writing a bill
that takes away rights or fundingand if everything is focused on money,
money, money,that's never going to be the right system.
You know, we've gotten way off track.
Money money money money money powerpower power.
(36:57):
Okay, well,that doesn't do human beings any good.
Fundamentally, that doesn't help usevolve and grow and change.
That just lets us stay in the samething, will shift the money
to you, shift the power to you, will fightyou and kill you to get it back.
We'll move it over there.We'll do all these things.
No change, no. We do better.
(37:17):
And nobody feels better.
And. And we've got so much money.
And yet we've got people,you know, suffering.
Right? You know, they don't have enough.
So how is that loving doesn't workand it won't work.
And what it will is it won't hold.
That doesn't hold together.
That eventually crumbles and falls apart.
(37:37):
But back to your question.
Do we say things that come fromnowhere? No.
It all comes from who we are inside.
And that's why the we've gone everywhereelse.
We've gone to space.
They want to go live on Mars.
You know you want it out, out, out.
Okay, but how about the finalfrontier is really the within the deep.
(37:58):
Deep within its own vast universe.
Enormously vast.
I mean, I think vast beyond anybody'swildest imagination.
Everything's in there.
So we want to change.
Now, if you're working with somebody,
what does it look likewhen they start to change?
Obviously, change is incremental.
We get little pieces as we go.
(38:19):
So you will start to see thingslike the house I grew up in
and I went backand all of a sudden in people's dreams.
So they'll tell me, oh, in my dream,I flew back home,
I drove out, you know,the house is way out in the country.
And I look, oh, all of a sudden I noticed
construction workers were pulling itdown, beam by beam.
That's right.
(38:40):
The treatment is now pulling apart
the old foundational piecesof your mind, piece by piece.
But you will show that in the dream.
So that tells me I don't just have to saymy patient is a good patient and saying,
oh, yeah, you know,it's better at home with my husband
now, and I have to go, well, I'mnot there to listen.
Maybe.
(39:01):
Right, but now I can see it becauseyour dream tells me something's happening.
And I have seenand I think most people who work this way
know you have to see it in the dream
before you will see itin the outside world, in the patient.
So the the patient has to have a new idea,
a new feelingthat grows deep in the unconscious space.
(39:25):
It has to get worked out there.
Then it emerges up to the conscious,
and the person can do it with the familyor out in the world,
and the life can get better,let's say, not be as difficult.
Sometimes you see it for a long timein the unconscious,
and you're sitting there going,wow, this person's all right.
Progress is kind ofwhere is it? Where is it? Right.
(39:47):
And then you have to look and see whatwhere's the internal saboteur.
Right.
Or the person's enormous fear of changing.
And why aren't they lettingthis new self be seen.
Right.
What are they afraid of?
So, you know, changeis a very interesting thing in treatment
(40:08):
because you have to be very opento looking, you know, you're listening to
to people tell you what theytheir complaints, what isn't going right.
And then you have to see, afteryou've been working for a while.
All right. Well what's happening?
What does the knowledge go in.
Does the infercan you take the information.
And you know, so you'll see the housegetting pulled down all right then I know.
(40:31):
All right. We're on to something.Something's happening.
Okay.
But for that individual going hometo that comfortable place
and getting thereand seeing this happening is devastating.
Perhaps.
Well, perhaps, you know, I think thatthat's when you have to enlist the patient
in giving you their observations,
(40:52):
feelings and associations to the dream.
How did it feel when you arrived?
Now one patient might say, oh my God, Istarted crying because I love this place.
And somebody else would say,oh, good riddance.
That thing was a termite riddentorture chamber.
I'm glad it's coming down.
Very different.
Right? Relationship to it.
But that's why you don't ever interpreta dream in a vacuum.
(41:14):
I can't tell you what that dream means.
Until I hear something from the patient.
I can guess, but I need to know.
People will also dreamabout adding rooms onto homes,
you know, or buildings or I live hereand I suddenly this happens a lot.
And I think it speaksto what you were talking about.
A new idea occurs.
All of a sudden they'll say,I lived in this apartment for 20 years,
(41:37):
and all of a sudden there was a doorI never knew was there.
And I opened itand there was another room.
Most of the time, what that is telling youis the mind is starting to expand.
Okay. So that tells me, oh, good.
I know something's happeningunconsciously.
That might just be so fascinating for you.
You know, just selfishly speaking that toto see these happening
(42:01):
for other it's actually not selfish,but just to say, oh, it works.
The whole thing works.
It's gratifying.
You're really happy, you know?
Yeah.
You try not to do the end zone dance.
Yeah.
Sometimes you do.
Yeah, I there are times, especiallyif somebody has really been working
and struggling with something and,you know, and you just give clap because
(42:23):
because you see it and you feel it,you know, right there something changed.
And when you see what it takesto get something to really change
individually and globally, oh my God.
Right. We do.
You just celebrate it.
So yeah that's athat's a really nice thing.
And hopefully your patientis celebrating themselves right.
(42:46):
You know that you're not the only one.
So I mean obviously if if they're notyou've
got other workto do to, to figure out why.
Not sure because maybe opening that door
and there's another room isI didn't want to I didn't want a door.
I don'tI don't want to go in there. Right.
You have to seeI mean, usually you don't get that
(43:08):
unless you've done enough workthat you're ready to have a door there.
I see, but have a look again.
You have to go in open.
You have to go in.
Not assuming that
what you think abouta symbol is the way your
what you feel about something is the waythe patient's going to feel about it.
(43:30):
Yes, you always have to, you know,
and part of it, that's why I can'tstand up and clap and cheer right away.
I've got to sit thereand give somebody space
to feelwhatever the person's going to feel.
Because maybe we're not cheering today.
So the so those symbols in our dreamsare unique to each of us. Yes.
We can't assume that that dooris the same for everyone.
(43:53):
It's not like, oh, there's the catalogand this door always. Mean, right?
I mean, typically, yes, a door opening onto something, I mean, makes sense.
I think we'd all sort of get that imagery.
Might you not feel excited about itin any given moment?
Sure.
You know, as you said,oh, am I going to pop that balloon?
Am I really going to do it?
Well, you may do it.
And feel terribly guilty.
(44:15):
Oh, I opened the door,but my sisters and brothers don't.
They couldn't do it.
And one died of an overdose.
And, you know, and like,oh, then, you know,
so there's a bittersweet piece in thatthat you may have to attend to.
Now, the here's an interesting symbol issometimes they just paint the whole house.
Hum. Right.
(44:35):
So what do we do with that?
Because it is surface
might mean change or it might mean
I paint it over something or whitewashthe whole place and all the feelings, and.
That it's. Something I might.
But you have to weigh it, you know.
And again, this is, this is when you haveto take all of these little variables.
(44:56):
How what mood is the personand what have they been dreaming about?
What's happening.
Because sometimes
we don't know what that means or which waythe person is going to go with it.
Just upon first examination.
The other piece that happens,and I have a dream I'll share today about
that is sometimes change is happening
(45:17):
and big change might be happening.
And because we are still human beingsand we are still terrified of what
the first contact with the imprintfelt like,
that it felt so awful to us,
unconsciously, unbeknownst to anyonethat was going
on, that we we don't want anythingthat gives us a hint of being near it.
(45:40):
I'll tell you this dream.
So the patient has been workingin treatment for quite a while
and is has made a lot of changes, I think.
And and not just changes that the,the person you know that the therapist
is looking at it and jumping up and downbecause we do
often see things and we go, okay, we knowdown the line that's going to show.
(46:01):
And so you're really excitedeven if the person isn't there yet.
And that could take three weeksor three months or who knows what.
Right.
But this is is objectivelythis person felt yes,
this has changed who I am.
So this person was far left
along in treatmentand had seen the changes, lived them,
appreciated them, had incorporated theminto their being, so to speak.
(46:24):
So this is not a personwho had shied away from changing.
So here's a dream.
I met a place that seems to be run
by the woman who ran the ceramics studiowhere I used to work.
It's like a hospital,
and suddenly I hear very strange noisescoming from the drain.
In one of the rooms.
(46:45):
The drain startsto back up with water and sewage.
I run into the next room to some friendsand the dirty water starts to rise.
They don't seem alarmed, it
only goes up about an inch, butthat's enough to get on some of my things.
I tried to tell people
so they could bring their stuff uponto the beds, but it happened fast
(47:05):
and I didn't have timeto get everything off the floor.
Then whatever causedthis to happen is fixed
and the water recedes and I start tryingto figure out how to wash all my stuff.
There seem to be parts of this building
where you're on high ground and sleep,
and then there are lower levels as wellthat are almost like channels.
(47:28):
I realized that the water must dothis periodically.
Okay, so
I'm listening to mypatient, and the patient says, okay, the
the woman who ran the ceramic studio is
kind of got like an earth mother vibe.
So that's one association.
The next is to the hospitalreminded me of a foreign place,
(47:51):
maybe in the Middle East or Spain,but it was clean and comfortable
and there were all kinds of peoplestaying there and many coming and going.
People were socializing, playing games,and generally
the mood was happy.
Now, if you do this long enough,
you're also listening, going,okay, you're staying at a hostel.
(48:11):
Right. Interesting word.
So you have to think right? Maybe.
Does that have a meaning?
Is there a feeling that's
that's being talked abouteven though everything is happy?
You don't know. But your question it right
before the water
came, there was a banging noiseas the water was starting to flow,
but it was really rattling the pipesand it scared me.
(48:32):
And I started to run aroundand warn people and tell people
to move their stuff.
As soon as I noticed the water.
I suppose at the end of it allit was not a huge problem.
But the sound really scared meas I'm listening to it.
One of the things that stood out was that.
But this place seemed to be a placewhere there was a it was bustling.
(48:52):
There was a lot of life happening here.
People were coming and going and talkingand all right,
so I'm trying to square thiswith what is happening
now. The day before this stream,the patient also had a dream
that was sort of saying the game was up,
basically, that all of the stuffthat the family had been doing
(49:14):
and everything had been sort of airedand brought into the light.
And it was it was done.
Game was over.
And you get a dreamlike this, or what do you do? So
as I'm listening
to the dream, basicallywhat became clear as the person talked
and I saw the person's emotional stateand how they responded and what they were
(49:35):
giving me, that this was really a dreamabout coming to life.
But now we've got the noises of lifeand those noises of life, a free life.
So reminded the person of the noises
of getting the imprintthat it terrified the person.
And all of a suddenthis became a scary dream coming to life.
(49:58):
Finally, this is what we are working for.
This person is really, you know, saying,I am ready to be my fullest self.
And even there,
the imprint and the terror aroundit is so strong.
It works its way into the dreamand there's a banging.
This banging must be the imprint.
(50:20):
But there's no evidence that that's reallywhere the person is psychologically.
So that's why you're alwaysyou can't take a dream out of context.
It's always got to be connectedto the person
where the person is, what the person saysand what the person's feeling.
And the other dreamssurrounding this were.
Before and the other dreamssurrounding this. Right.
You go, okay, the game is up.
(50:42):
If the game is overwhat are you going to do.
Yeah. What's next. What's next. Life.
So then when
you andthis patient walked through this dream.
Yes, they're far enough alongto understand the fear and the imprint.
Absolutely.
The backstop to this.
Far enough along and happy
(51:04):
relieved to say, oh, good,I thought I was backsliding.
Oh, good.
I thought I was like, you know,the game is over and I have to bring
all the sewage water backand I'm not allowed to change.
You know,this was simply a person who did change.
And yet still, you know, thisthis is why I go back to
(51:25):
because change, even when you've done it,
it doesn't mean you may not push throughsome very scary feelings.
You may even, well,my God, am I going to die?
I think I'm going to die.No, you're changing.
That's a good thing.
So sometimes you have to help patientswith that too.
In that dream
where the patient is trying to warnthese other people
(51:49):
that are making the space busy
about the sewage, and they're not reallycaring as much as she is.
Right.
You would be the internal saboteurdid a good job here because it's very easy
to make an interpretation that says, well,all right, you're back with your family.
You were trying to sound the alarm.Your family wasn't listening.
They were going on playing their gamesand doing things and and settle down.
(52:13):
Yeah.
And I don't think anybody would arguewith that interpretation
if you didn't knowwhere the patient was in their mind,
in their own unconscious
and the work the patient had doneand the dream from the day before,
you could make that dream and nobodywould argue, but it wouldn't be right.
It wouldn't be right.
This was a reemergence into life,a fuller emergence
(52:37):
that just carried the residueof getting the imprint.
Just to show you how scarygetting that imprint is, and why
it has shut down change for all of usin our own lives and as a group.
So as an individual with dreams aplenty
(52:58):
and without someone like you,
we can give validity to our dreams.
You better. Yeah.
I mean, I. Think actas if for the. Moment.
The big idea here is. Your dreams. Matter.
They are telling you important things.
No matter how trivial you think they are,they are important.
(53:20):
We may not always get them.
I don't get every dream.
Sometimes I have dreams. I have what?
Where?
What are you trying to say here?
Sometimes my patients primary dreams.
What are you trying to say here?They're not.
You know,sometimes they are hard to penetrate.
And I might have to come back to them.
Or I get a piece.
And the resistance is so strong,you know, you're not.
(53:43):
You're not supposed to be ableto understand it.
And you have to free up some other thingsin subsequent sessions, and you can.
Oh, well, all right.
Look at that.
Now I can see what's emerging, you know.
So they're tough.
I don't expect people at home without helpto get every single thing going on.
I think this is just to say,if you had any doubts,
they do have meaning.
(54:06):
And and it is really our taskto figure out
what they're talking about and get busy.
People need to get busy workingthis intimately
with their own unconscious minds.
This should be with everybody.
If you have the time and the spaceand you sleep.
If you sleep, you dream.
(54:27):
And if you can even catch, they go.
But I only caught a snippet.
Great catch it.
Write it down because it's elusive.
It will crawl away from youso. Fast, so fast.
And then just live with it a littlebecause you're living with yourself.
This is from you.
You made this.
This is.
From no other. Place.
An alien didn't implant this in you.
(54:48):
You made this for good reason.
And as you startto think about these dreams,
or maybe write them down,whatever the process might be
that allows you to retain them,you can start to think about
it in
dreams, sort of sequentially,or think about today's dream
(55:10):
and think about, let me remind myself whatI was dreaming last Friday and Saturday.
What what did I ultimately come awayfeeling?
What was the thing in that dream?
After I asked myself some questionsabout what I saw,
what resonated, and what did I feel?
What else have I felt along the waysince then?
Is it all the same kind of feelingpackaged in different scenarios?
(55:35):
Am I feeling things differently nowbecause I felt that thing then
and and I think you can really startto see some paths
and perhaps present yourselfwith some little clearings.
Yeah.
Places to investigate further. Right.
So I'm having this feeling in my wakinglife, I didn't know I ever felt like this,
(55:58):
but this thing in my dreammade me think about the way
I walked through the flowers,which made me think
about why I was walkingthrough the flowers and
what kind of weird thing was I know,whatever it is.
But yeah, then you you can startto investigate where those feelings come.
From, right?
You're starting to pay attentionto feeling right.
(56:19):
You're starting to just get acquaintedwith,
you know, andand not just these big feelings.
Oh, I got so angrywhen that person said that.
I mean, sure, that's in there, but. Right.
But there's always feelings, you know?
And if there aren't. All right.That's interesting too.
You know, some people say, well,I just feel numb. Okay.
Well, that's intriguing to me.
(56:39):
You know why? What?
Why might someone imaginethat that's become the state
of being probablyall kinds of good reasons.
So whatever it is. Right.
We're just saying you're starting to say,oh, the task is to now start
to really connect to myself,figure out who I am, who am I given
(57:01):
my history, where I was born,who raised me, what happened in my family,
you know, and and if one can also think,oh, and I got an imprint.
I got an imprinting the way
geese are imprinted by their mothers
that says, follow me, do itmy way, and you'll learn to fly.
(57:22):
Well, and.
We all know that's science. That's right.
And they need to do that.
That's how the next generation learns.
We're really no different.
It's just that what comes with oursis this piece.
You get a lot of good thingsthat say, here's how you walk and talk
and present yourself to the world,but you also got a big hot ball of toxic
(57:44):
material on processed,
really intolerable partsthat were too painful in your mother
that she unknowingly, unknowingly,unintentionally passed to her offspring.
And you took it because mommy gaveand we take.
(58:04):
This is, of course, survival, right?
I mean, at the base,it all comes back to survival.
What do you have to do to live?
Well, do you take this in?
But then you've got to do mental
gymnastics to tolerate itso it doesn't blow your mind apart.
And live your life.
You wrap it up real quickly and hide it.
That doesn't stop it from
(58:27):
giving signals
about all of the things contained in it.
That's why you say to yourselfas an adult,
yeah. Yeah.
And some people will say truthfully,
they'll come out and say, listen,my past was just too hard.
I don't want to go there.I don't want to open it up.
I have great respect for that.
Then don't only do what you want to do.
(58:50):
That's okay.
You know, again,maybe everybody isn't going to do that.
Doesn't havethe luxury, doesn't want to do that.
That's okay.
Enough people who can
if they do it, you lift everybody.
And what we're really trying to dois clear out
enough of the toxins,
(59:12):
relax the restrictions enough
that people are able to love each otherand receive love from each other.
Both very simple,
really big ideas that are not happeningenough in the world.
A lot of people thinkthey know how to love.
(59:32):
I will tell you,when you start looking at dreams
and seeing how they interactwith each other, often they don't.
They don't treat each other nicely.
They think they do and they don't.
Or so much toxin was in therethat even in their best efforts
because yeah, there'sa lot of good people out there, you know,
and they're working hard.
They're trying to be good citizens inthe world and, and loving family members.
(59:54):
And they don't realize that stuffjust slips out, you know?
And it doesn't even mean
somebody will be passiveaggressive or something even that much.
It just unconsciously gets delivered whenyou don't mean for it to get delivered.
And so that's why we have to go in.
No, we have itand start disarming it and pulling it away
so we can truly, truly come from love
(01:00:19):
and take in love.
And that's how we change ourselves.
Change your cities, changeyour countries, change the world.
If we can all havea lot more love in our hearts
and work from feelingnot just money, money,
logic, logic.
(01:00:41):
Then you can actually bring
about systems of of government
that work for the people, workfor the people.
So the people are not saying, well,it works for you because you've got money.
But I'm social,
you know, I'm out of love.
Nobody's happy and nobody'shappy right now.
(01:01:02):
People aren't happyfor a whole lot of reasons, but
but that's one of them, right?
I'm unhappy because I took my imprint
and turned it into a government,and now I live under it.
Yeah, well, that's an awful way to go.
Hey, humans, that's an awful way to go.
No wonder everybody is in some wayunhappy, you know?
(01:01:22):
And even if you're not unhappy,look at your neighbors, you know?
And in this lifetime,maybe you're in the lucky group.
Guess what?
The next lifetime,you might be in the unlucky group.
So you know,none of us, we're all shifting and moving
and in this lifetime or the next,if one is allowed to, you know,
one believes in that, you know,you've come here to learn something.
(01:01:43):
So you this isn't one and done.
And I got in the lucky group
so I don't have to think about anybodyelse's problems and let me move along.
Well, I mean, that's a nice fantasy,but it isn't how it works.
There's another generationcoming after you.
Well, there's also another generationcoming after you, you know,
and if you you only care about yourselfand you're safe.
Well, what about your kidsand their kids and their kids?
(01:02:06):
So yeah. Okay.
You had cleandrinking water and clean air to breathe.
Should we let everybodythat pollute the earth to the point
where we don't and children'schildren have nothing had it?
That's not loving.
No. And who wants their kidsto turn around and say, gee, thanks a lot,
Mom and Dad. Right.
Thanks for the big pile of steaming junkyou left me.
(01:02:27):
What do you want me to do with it? But.
But I have to do something with it,like an imprint, or I'll die.
So, you know, these are big things.
If we can get everybodyto be more loving, more loving,
you know?
And even if. If you
can't get fully into your unconscious,you can at least start thinking that.
(01:02:48):
I'm not saying be a doormat or a martyr.
Be loving, think about love.
Try to come from a loving,
compassionate place and understandthat you don't know everybody's story.
You don't know what happenedthis morning on the way to work.
You know that we can all havea lot more grace for our ourselves
and other people around us,and we can start to love ourselves,
(01:03:11):
treat ourselves well.
And that grace that you allow yourselfto have give to yourself,
then allows you to have grace for otherswho have, who have different opinions.
And you.
That's right, that's right.
Different ways of living,different everything.
Speak different languages, right?
In every way.
Okay.
(01:03:32):
But we can be lovingand you can't destroy each other.
We have to come from love.
You don't run around shooting each other.
Well and coming from love.
What sort of
not allow you to do that?
It just wouldn't be in your.You don't. Right?
Or you could say to yourself, gee,that impulse is there.
(01:03:52):
But I it doesn't get to rule the day.
Something else gets to rule the day.
Let me go to my heart and see what I feel.
Let's see where we can work this out.
So, you know, I don't want to be naive.
Obviously there are there are all kindsof things in the world.
But I think if we don't start doing this,then I guarantee there's
going to be bloodshed.
There's going to be more and more bombsand wars and
(01:04:15):
every government will come inand get overthrown and empires
will fall because the system isn't builton the right thing.
The system is built on power and money
and riches, and it is not built on love.
And until it's built on love,it is not the right system.
It isn't.
And again, nobody, even the people who are
never satisfied with
(01:04:36):
the amount of money or powerthey have, are not happy.
They're not.
But it's not the thingthat is bringing joy to anybody.
Right?
If if it work,they would all be amazingly happy people.
They would, and we'd
probably all be in the same boat with thembecause they would be giving and.
It would be great.
Right?
You know, I mean, it may be that oncepeople switch over to using love,
(01:04:59):
thinking about love, using their feelings,they more feminine.
You know, make the shift to a feminineparadigm that, you know, I don't know.
Will money exist? I'm not sure.
I mean, you know, and I say that right?
Wait, what do you mean?
Imagine things like that, you know,where everything you've known
and the way we've always donethings just cease to be the way it's done.
(01:05:22):
Because they don't serve the goal.
And the goal is to be lovingtowards each other.
Which is the waywe can lift each other up, even those
who are not yet prepared to do thatindividually.
Right? Right.
But we get enough people.
You get critical mass. Yeah.
You lift everybody up.
So let's do that.
(01:05:42):
Okay. Loren. Thank you, thank you.
We could talk again I mean again now.
Well, we will talk again,but we could talk now for hours.
Of course I know,but there's a little close to your family.
Thank you.
But it's a pleasure to be here.
Thank youfor letting me talk about these things.
As you can tell, I,you know, I'm very passionate about this.
It is a pleasure.
(01:06:03):
And I always learn from you. Always.
Thanks a million.
Thank you all for listening and watching.
And please continue to watch.
It's super important.
We really want all of us to be operatingfrom our best loving selves.
Follow us,ask us questions and join us next time.
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