June 24, 2025 • 66 mins
In this deeply moving episode of And Now Love, Cynthia Marks sits down with married creatives Adria Marquez and Jesus Trejo as they navigate life with a newborn, personal caregiving experiences, and the emotional growth that comes with slowing down. Adria shares the complexities of postpartum identity, the pressure of balancing work and motherhood, and the quiet power of presence. Jesus reflects on caregiving for his aging parents and how laughter has become his bridge to healing and connection. Together, they explore how support, vulnerability, and humor keep love alive during the most tender life transitions. Cynthia brings the teachings of Dr. Bernard Bail into the fold, connecting the emotional experience of caregiving with the deep need to feel lovable and seen. From diapers to dreams, this episode offers a beautiful meditation on generational love, grief, identity, and the quiet revolutions that happen inside every parent and partner. It’s a conversation full of honesty, humility, and the reminder that love is not just a feeling — it’s a practice.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks,and I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis
Foundation, founded by my latehusband, Doctor Bernard Bail.
Welcome to And Now Love.
Adria Marquez and Jesus
Trejo are with us today.
This will be new and different.
Having two people at one time to talkwith.
(00:26):
We've never done this before,so thank you for being our first.
Adria is the founder
and CEO of Latidos Media.
For more than 15 years.
She has specializedin the realms of social impact, DEI
strategies and advocacy.
(00:46):
Additionally,she has deep experience in marketing
partnerships and community engagement.
Adriaclearly comes from a place of empathy
and love, as she hasplaced herself in the position of caring
for the needs of othersin very difficult situations.
She hails from El Paso, Texas
(01:07):
and Ciudad Juarez, Mexico.
Jesus has been a stand up comedianfor over 19 years.
He is passionate about comedyand storytelling, as
is made clear by his continued success.
He is well known for his Showtime specials
Stay at Home and Practicing.
(01:29):
He has been featured on The Late Late Show
with James Cordenand The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon.
Also, he is the author of two awardwinning books, Papa's
Magical Water Jug Clock,for which he received
the Pura Belpre honor, and Mama's
Magnificent Dancing Platitas.
(01:50):
He is the host and executiveproducer of Tacos Con Todo
on First We Feast and the PBS docu series
Roots of Comedy,where he explores stories behind the jokes
in and amongst all of this.
He has been a loving caregiverto his parents, where he found ways
(02:11):
beyond the obviousto help them feel comfortable
and happy, and to help himselffind a smile or a little relief
during the especially tough times.
Beyond all of these excellent thingsthat these two do,
they are married to each otherand have a beautiful newborn
(02:32):
baby girl, Xoe, who I just met.
They are learning how to balance familywork, shared time, individual time,
and all that comes with bringinga beautiful baby into the world.
So welcome and again, thank you.
And there's so much to talk aboutbecause you guys have so much going on.
Thank you for having us.Thank you. For yours.
(02:53):
Of course I have to be here.
Well, I have some questions,
so I may look down occasionallyand I to forget some of my questions.
But first of all, for you,this your little angel.
Both of yours is only seven weeks old.
Yeah,she's about to be seven in a few days.
And you? Seven, seven weeks. Seven weeks.
(03:14):
Seven weeks. Yeah.
And you are now no longer pregnant.
You were obviously pregnant.This is what happens.
Yeah.
And I wondered if you could share
how you seewhat your friends have been through, where
people you know,who have been through pregnancy,
(03:35):
what are some of the thingsthat seem important to pregnant people
or people who are bringing childreninto this world today?
Yeah.
You know, it's been just quite, a journey.
And a wild roller coaster,as I like to say.
You know, the I feel like
(03:57):
people share stories or, you know,
people tell youand share their experiences.
But no matter how much you prepare
or how much people sharewhat they've gone through,
it's like you really don't knowuntil you live it, right?
You know,you can hear from other people's stories.
And, you know, I like to havea good balance of being prepared
(04:20):
and research, seeing and hearingfrom other people to know what to expect,
but also not try to take onother people's experiences
and just kind of be presentand live that experience myself.
So it's been just like a wonderful journey
to go through, very different,both expected and unexpected.
What what is mostimportant is just having support
(04:43):
and having community and friendsto reach out to.
Having an, a solid partnership.
You know, whether you're a significantother and say, we're in this together.
And although we both may be going
through this experience in our own waysand feeling different things,
having that solid partnershipand reminding yourself
(05:05):
that you're ina team is essential, is essential.
You know, oftentimesthis is the one reminding me,
you know, holding up the mirrorand saying, you got this, you know,
and reminding me that everything's okay orvice versa, just talking through things.
So I think the most important thingis just having that support,
both from your partnerand from friends, from family.
(05:28):
Crucial, crucial.
So being pregnant is really a gift.
And I don't know that all of usrecognize it as such.
There are babies being born every day.
It's hard to remember thatthis is a unique experience,
completely unknown until you're in it,
(05:50):
even though it happens every day.
It's it's an interesting thing to tackle.
You know, this thing is happeningall around me all the time.
It's happening to me.
And I never knew any feeling like this.
I never had this kind of fear.
I never had this kind of love.
I never had this kind of curiosityabout this thing.
Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
(06:11):
I would joke about thata lot because, you know,
you hearabout how it's such a miracle, right?
And the processand what a woman's body goes through and
her mind and her brain, and you're like,what a what a miracle.
And I'm like, this is the most commonmiracle because we all got here somehow.
That's right.
So maybe maybe it just does.
(06:32):
It doesn't get the recognitionthat it should.
Right.
Because each journeyfor every woman is so unique
and so complexand so just recognizing both the duality
of a very common and reoccurring miracle,but still a miracle in itself. Yes.
Right.
(06:52):
Like whatan individual person goes through in,
you know, their pregnancy journey or birth
giving journey is so uniqueand it truly is a miracle.
What what our bodies can do is astounding.
It really is.
Yeah.
I mean, that was the first timeI think I ever really felt
a miracle was when my son was born.
(07:13):
It's like, how did this happen? Yeah.
But but to that, I remember also thinkingbeing pregnant
and thinking how awesome and unusualit was.
And and then again, how everybody else is,
you know, herebecause somebody was pregnant.
Yeah.
It makes you thinkabout other facets of life like that too.
(07:34):
Right.
So what I think is commonplace or whatI think is super easy may not be so.
Or when I apply it to myself,it may not be the same as it was for Jack
or Betty or Sue or Allen,even though you think we're all
walking around with the same ideasin our heads, you know, those
or the same solutionswere really, really not.
(07:54):
And I think that's something to honorall the time, is
that we are not all experiencingthe same thing the same way.
And even though something physical,like giving birth to a child
is sort of the same thing.
It's not the same thing. It's not.
And recognizing that people go throughthis experience in different contexts
with different resources,with different levels of support.
(08:18):
Right.
And I think that's where thethe empathy should come in.
Right.
So this is something universalthat so many people go through.
Well, it's it'sdifferent for every person for a reason.
Right.
And some of those things are individualand internal,
and some of thoseare things outside of our control to. Yes.
And some of us struggle.Some of us don't want to be where we are.
Some of us are so excited, and all ofthose things are something to honor.
(08:42):
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Especially when they involve,you know, bringing a little person
into this worldwho needs to live a life coming from love.
So we have a lot to do to help ourselvesas parents and pregnant women.
And and I don't know that I've ever askeda dad this question so much, but
(09:03):
we were talking a little bit.
You were talking about your partnershipand how important that was.
Is it sort of weird to kind of be out here
while all this is going on over here
with Adria and Xoe and your
do you feel out thereor do you feel in it?
I mean, you definitely feel connected.
(09:24):
I mean, it's, it's Xoe came aboutbecause of,
you know, us being together, you know, sothere is some some.
You know Xoe, without. You, yeah.
There would be no Xoe without us.
And and we quickly find outthat there's no us without Xoe.
Yeah.
It's like a natural progression,you know that?
Weird how that happens.
It's weird.
It's, there's a sequence to life, and Ithink, you know, as the more life unfolds
(09:47):
and you have these unique experiences,the more you understand it.
But even my understanding is so differentthan the next person.
It's basicallywhat you guys have just touched on.
I think it'sthere's a sense of being connected.
There's a sense of,there's a sense of understanding.
There's like the family is expanding,but so is our level of comprehension
to this thing.
So it's like, you know, people talk aboutthat the universe is ever expanding.
(10:09):
I think it's the knowledge that's like,
makes us grow as a family, as a couple,as a as a person, as a dad, as,
there's so many identitiesthat grow with every experience.
So, yeah, it feels it feels awesome.
It feels pretty cool.
And it's amazing to be sort of partof the ongoing human experience or.
Yeah, it's the most, relatable,common experience that we know of.
(10:33):
I mean, it's it's life and death,
you know, those two thingsthat are guarantee that,
you know, we're going to experienceat one point in our lives and,
you know, we're going to experience.
No, some know like it'sone of those interesting. Yeah. Things.
So yeah, they cannot be avoided.
They cannot be avoided.
But they're very beautifulin their own way.
Yeah.
And I would say he,he was involved in the know not just,
you know, supporting me and helping
(10:55):
do things that I couldn't dobecause of the I was pregnant,
but also just something as, as simpleas bringing joy to our day to day.
You know, that's when I say I'm like,I'm so lucky to be married to a comedian
because the laughs were always abundant,to sort of always
be surrounded by laughter when you'repregnant is just like one of those things.
(11:15):
You're like, okay, if I do anything right,it's going to be this, you know,
like, I'mgoing to give that gift to my baby.
Of her constantly feeling my laughing,you know.
And like, you know.
And that's been great partthanks to her father.
So that's really precious.
So it was it was pretty easy for youto feel like you were part of the process.
And I think it helped when you tell meotherwise, when you could see
(11:37):
that you being part of the processwas making Adria happier.
And, and I would imagine there be daysyou're like, oh geez, I'm so tired.
But I still have to do all these things.
I still have peopleI promised I would get to to help,
and I've got work to do,and you could take some of that steam off.
Yeah, I it technically wasn'tanything different that we were doing that
(12:00):
we weren't doing before,but it was just kind of like now
I was under the scope of this process,you know, this, this kind of
unfolding pregnancyinto unfolding motherhood, fatherhood.
Yeah.
I was a part of it is it'salmost like whether I wanted to or not,
we were still living our livesas we as we were,
but now we have a new experiencesthat we're doing it under.
So yeah, it felt really nice thatthat we were still connected, if not more,
(12:24):
you know, during this thing.
So yeah, I think both of us
loving what we do for workand being so invested in our careers,
we both had to learnhow to move at a different pace.
You know, personally myself,you know, I was consulting
and sometimes being okaywith reducing the amount of work
(12:44):
I was doing or kind of like softeningthe landing into that third trimester.
Right?
Not taking on more workthan I wanted to handle or.
That's hard, you know. It's hard to do.
It's sort of slowing downwhen you're so used to, you know, this
culture of hustle,you know, forcing yourself
to slow downand give yourself permission to
(13:07):
to feel a little bit boredand a little bit of the, the slowness.
And, you know, with Jesus,it was a similar process.
You know, he'sso used to being on the road
and traveling, and towards the end of it,it was okay.
Like, I need to be close by a little bitmore, you know, in case of or so.
Also, you know, going througha similar experience
(13:27):
of learning how to slow downand what we're so used to always.
It's a big, paradigm shift. Yes.
It's such a massive shift.
And I read this where it said,it's like kids are starting a family
forces you to slow down.But isn't that the point?
You know, because we areso I think outside of that,
we're we're built to pick up patternsand trying to improve
(13:49):
and trying to find this, this thing.We want to attain this thing.
But it's also part of I don't thinkeither of us thought we were going to
have a family or this kind of thing.
It's like it wasn'tsomething we really considered.
I, you know,I speak for myself that I was like,
I thought maybe having a familywasn't in the cards for me.
But right now, in this moment is like,we're allowed to have a different opinion
and we're allowed to pivot.
You know, we're allowed to flight.
(14:11):
Correct.
And and right now, I can tell you thatit's like after reading that, I'm like,
oh, that that spoke to me.I think at a deep level
that is like, isn't that the pointto have you slow down?
One? I think initial reaction is like,oh, I don't want to slow down.
I want to do this, I want to do that.
And now maybe you're not able to do that,or the version of doing that is different
than what you thought it was.
(14:31):
But again, isn't that the point?
I think there's some truth to that.
There is.
And I mean, look at what came intoyour life and Xoe and the feelings
that come along with Xoeand the feelings that now the three of you
have together that you might nototherwise had if you didn't slow down.
Yeah, you could still parentand not slow down. Yeah.
(14:52):
Like slowing down, kind of lookingat things different as people call it.
Quitting now, playing.
But it's all how you look at itultimately.
Yeah. Everything happens for a reason.
And if you leave yourself open to things,you know, you'll see those little
magical signs.
You know. It put things into perspective.
I mean, we had this one funny,
funny instance in
which as we were getting really close,I think I was maybe at like 37 weeks,
(15:17):
you know, his son was on his last trip,
you know, that he said, after that,I'm not going to travel
because we're going to be sort ofin waiting mode.
He was up in the Bay area and,you know, he kept checking in.
Everything okay? Everything.
And we had talked aboutwhat does it look like?
You know, if baby comes early,you know, he's like, I'm
going to be ready to jump on a flightor rent a car if I need to.
(15:40):
This one night, he's on the show.
And usually I know, you know,not to call or text when he's on stage.
But I also know that his phone isprobably on Don't Disturb.
Or like,I know that he won't have his phone out,
you know, while he's performing.
And this is one time I'm at home, I'mjust sitting in my recliner
being very pregnant.
(16:01):
And I saw I saw thathe posted something on his stories.
I was like, oh,he must be done with the show.
And so I gave him a callto say good night.
And I just hear he picks upand I just hear this loud echo.
He goes, baby, I'm on stage.
Is everything. Okay?
Oh my gosh.
And I say,
oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes, please,please go back to what you were doing.
(16:22):
And I hung up immediately and I was like,he's never done that before.
But there was something comforting to know
that, like he wasyou were that he was paying attention.
He was and you know,and that I know his ability
to bring that show backto where it needed to be.
But that he was he was checking on us,you know, he was ready to answer.
(16:42):
I just I was like, wouldn't it
be funny if I was like, hey, can youcan you send some cookies?
Because I'm having some great.
Yeah.
There's a, there's a level of,there's a level of mindfulness
or there's a level of, responsibility.
You know, it goes to the word love.
You know, we started the podcastby hearing the word love, you know,
and so it's there's a,there's a level of that in all that we do.
(17:05):
And, you know,when you're in that position,
there's a sense of you're steppinginto this new responsibility.
So maybe you're a little more hyper awarethat maybe if I was like my third
or fourth kid, I'd be like, you know,I'll check my voicemails afterwards.
But but again, youyou spoke to that earlier.
It's a it's a new experience.
You know, it's something very newand you wouldn't know
until you're in it and you're,you know, while you're in it, you know.
(17:28):
So it was just my way of like,I don't know what this is going to be,
but I could, I could,
I could put forth an effort of mindfulnessand, and, you know, showing that I care.
And alsoyou want to be there for those things.
It's pretty. Exciting. Stuff.
Yeah. Yeah, it's exciting stuff.
You don't want to miss outon those things.
Even if it's you know,send me some cookies, you know.
Yeah. So.
(17:49):
Well, I think that,
again, one of the best things we can dois figure out how to love these little
creatures that are living inside, insideus, that we're already trying
to make into loving individualswho have their own paths.
And that's called. Bacteria.
And because you want to read bacteria,that's what she's describing.
(18:12):
Exactly.
Well, some people think that.
Yeah. Kids. Absolutely.
You're absolutely right.
Yeah. It's, Yeah, it's special.
Yeah,it is, it is. And here you're into it.
A giant almost seven weeks. Yes.
It's so funny in the beginninghow that period of time, it's like, well,
it's been seven weeks. Yeah.
And you know, down the road like in a yearyou'll be like it's been a whole year.
(18:38):
And then you think back about seven weeks.
It's like that was like a day. Yeah.
And but it's so monumental isn't it.
All the things that happenin this seven weeks
or the next 14 weeks and,and you think about this,
I don't know if you
are doing this,but I used to think about that little baby
being kind of that way for a long time,a long time.
(19:02):
And, and it shifts so quickly.
And I mean, that's so much funto see all these changes, but
you get so invested in a particular stageand it's gone.
Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot.
Just the the perception of timeis so different during that,
you know, and as of late, you know,I recently had my six week checkup
(19:26):
and everyone says I doesn't have fly by.
And I actually usually respond like I'mnot there yet.
I'm not there yet where.
I can say it's gone really fast.
And I don't mean that in any negative way,but I think I have felt
every passing momentof the last six weeks.
Right.
Because there's just so much well, one,there's all the logistics of
(19:51):
tracking all the hours and how many hoursthey've been since she a and you're,
you're tracking literally every minute,you know of, of the the day that passes.
And so it feels like the days andthe weeks kind of blend into each other.
I know at some point I'll look backand be like, where did my baby go?
(20:11):
That's right. She's a, a whole child.
I like to think that, like,
we've stayed super present,you know, for the last six weeks.
And sometimes that also feels like, oh,
we feel really tiredbecause the days feel really long.
But we can say thatwe've we've experienced and felt and.
Yeah,
felt every,every passing hour of the last six weeks.
(20:31):
So how do you find time to also likeyou're still recovering.
How do you find timeto take care of yourselves.
Like do you take one night or.
I don't know what your sleeppatterns are at home but there.
Is no pattern right now. Yeah.
I'm sorry I guess seven weeks. Yeah.
There is no pattern yet.
I don't think we have a propersample size.
(20:53):
Yeah, it's day by day, but it's like,to answer your question, I think self-care
just looks different at secondby second, minute by minute hour.
You know, we can keep going on,you know, day by day, week by week, month.
You know, it keeps going.
But I think in the and the day to day,there is moments in between where it's
kind of like tap in and, you know,she adds time to herself, whether it's
it could be any number of things.
(21:14):
It could be watching TV,it could be just sitting there.
It could be a cup of coffee.
It could be just staring off into space,you know,
it's like whatevertime is, is allowing us to do.
Sometimes it's taking a nap,sometimes it's,
you know, goingshopping at your favorite grocery store.
You know, it's like those those thingsdo so much for us
because at at our age,you know, we've identified what we like
(21:35):
and what recharges youand what takes away.
So if you're able to do
even just a little bit of that, it's like,I think that's a form of self-care.
Yeah. It takes a lot of communication too.
Right.
Like communicating to each other and sortof learning how to express your needs.
And I will say thatwhen you're in postpartum, sometimes
things can feel so overwhelmingthat you don't know what you need.
(21:56):
You know, you need you know,you need support.
But it's it's difficultto figure out what to ask for.
Or what shape does that come. In? Yeah.
What's the right thing to request?
This is where, you know, HSAsbeing such a wonderful partner
and it has so much experiencewith caregiving.
He understands when he steps inand tells me, you know what,
(22:18):
I think you need an hour to yourself.
Why don't you go to your favoritegrocery store or, you know,
why don't you take a napand encouraging me and making that space?
A lot of things we do, we take turnsand and there is shifts and there is.
So he's equally involvedin the changing of diapers and the feeding
and also to express it for himself.
You know, I'm going to take a napor starting to get out and do some shows.
(22:41):
And he says, oh,I really enjoyed being back on stage.
You know, he stays local. Yeah, local.
But then he's like,
but it was great to be back on stage,you know, for a couple of hours.
And so having that open dialog.
Right. Did you. Eat yet.
Yeah.
Self-care is such an important thingwhich I also would love to know what
how you identifyand when it comes to self-care,
(23:04):
what you need and how do you get that?
Because that to me has always been like,something that I had to learn.
You know, being a caregiver,
how do you reach outor how do you express to somebody
what it is that you need for self-careto get you back to your baseline or where
you would like to be like, yeah, is theresomething you look for or look to ask.
That's that is a huge topic.
(23:25):
So according to Bernard,
many of us don't even knowthat we can ask that question.
We don't know thatthat's a place where we can exist.
We just continue to maneuver through life
in this little world of turmoil.
And because that's what we know,we don't know, we're entitled.
(23:47):
Anything else? Yeah.
And I think that's a it'sit's really a shame
that a lot of us have not come to a placewhere we understand we deserve
to take care of ourselves, and we deserveto be taken care of by others also.
And so really, what we need to doas individuals
(24:07):
is find out why we're lovable
and what it is, who it is
that we love and know what love feels like
and once we know what love feels like,honestly, deeply,
we can honor that we deserve itand that we can gift it to ourselves.
(24:29):
We can say, wait a minute,what is this feeling I have today?
I, I don't know, maybe that nap,I could do that instead of this and,
and be okay with it and realizethat you're, you're giving yourself
this thing that is making makingyou healthy, stronger,
whatever it is that you needand and to be able to recognize
(24:49):
that then and other people,I think, can only be done
when you totally investin taking care of yourself.
You can see that other people will alsobenefit from it, and it won't be a,
a task or a burden.
So much for you to help those around youthat you love.
(25:11):
It'll sort of come naturally.
So to that mister great caregiver.
Not a great one, just,you know, doing my honest best.
So you stepped inand took care of your parents
when they were not able to fullytake care of all their needs on their own.
Yeah, it'sI mean, caregiving, you know, manifests
(25:33):
at different times in different ways.So there is more.
There is not one kind of caregiving.
I always imagine, like caregiving.
Caregiving is a it's a two way street.
It's like almost like this podcast. Right?
We know our energy levels right now.
And what we're able to kind of affordto speak into the mic is like,
you're in charge of your own levels,
but there is somebody in the soundboardgoing, hey, like, I need to,
(25:55):
I need to give you a little more volumeor I'm getting some feedback.
This is, you know, I mean, it'sa two way street, much like we are.
You know, I'm, I'm, I'm detecting thatyou're peaking or it's a little low.
What's going on?
I mean, yeah,
but also they can detect their own levelsas, as much as we can identify
certain levels.
Like, I think caregiving is the same waythe mind is built to pick up on patterns.
So it's like when certain patterns aren't,aren't the same, you know, you
(26:17):
you have this sense of you mature
very quickly because you're like,I got to help out.
There's a sense of responsibilityearly on.
That's what we hope.
We hope.But I think it happens when you're a kid.
It's like translatingas a form of caregiving,
you know,when your parents don't know the language
and it's like, oh, I think I know this,
but they're having a hard timecommunicating.
There's a sense of responsibilitythat's just
(26:38):
nobody tells you to do to be like, oh,
I think they're, you know, youyou want to help.
It's, it's it's love.
It's like a natural thingthat we all have.
And that also feels goodwhen when your mom is struggling
because she's trying
to communicate something to someoneand she can't get it across, and you can,
it feels good for you to take that sortof anxiety away from her.
Yeah,it feels good for you as a as a human.
(27:00):
Caregiving, a caregiving could be a parenttaking care of of a special needs kid.
It could be taking care of a pet,a young person taking care of an
elderly loved one, and vice versa.
There's so many aspects,so it's like it's a natural occurrence,
I think, to want to support somebodyand in some way,
you know, it's like like we would here,it takes a village to raise a kid.
(27:23):
And I did a documentary with themin 2017 called Care to Laugh?
We were the subjects of this documentary.
It was my parents and I, and,you know, I'm following stand up comedy.
That's my North Star.
But I'm also a caregiver at the sametime, juggling both.
So you can even call it the motifof the documentary, where it's like
it also requires a villageto help somebody age gracefully.
(27:43):
So caregiving isis the opposite of equal reaction.
You know, it's like for an aging parent,it's like you're caregiving
to this final point.
But when you have a kid,it's like it's a beginning point.
Onward. Caregiving requires a community.
It requires support of a partnership,loved one's community, family,
what have you.
So yeah, his shoes off and talksabout how the tables turn right.
(28:07):
You know, from raising a childto raising your parents.
And, you know, I think about that a lot.
And, you know, when we talk and thinkabout what kind of tools and resources
are needed for, you know, a pregnant womanor a new mother,
it's like, how come we don't talkmore about the tools and resources
that we need to carefor our aging family members?
(28:29):
You know,it feels like such a not a taboo topic,
but just something that we don't talkabout enough.
Right?
There's no
equivalent of the prenatal courses thatyou take to like, how do you navigate,
like how to show up for aging loved ones.
It's like you're navigating a whole worldthat nobody prepares you for.
Yeah.
And we're all going to go through it.
(28:50):
Yes. No.
You know, I mean.
Not everybody gets to the different stagesof of life, but it is just as common
as, you know, for people to transitionout of this life as it is for
people to transition into this life.
So why don't we learn more about it,right, and talk more about it?
You find out so many people go through itwithout sharing it.
(29:11):
Yeah, I've even talked about it on stage.
It's like how the tables turn andit feels like I'm raising my parents now.
I go to a classto learn how to change a diaper, but
I wish they had that for older loved one.
You know, nobody shows youhow to change a big diaper.
No, there's a lot of trial and error,but there it's right.
It's much needed to have that equivalentfor on the the later stage.
(29:33):
And then especiallyyou're dealing with someone.
Well so many peoplewho are still cognizant
of what life is about and have learnedall these lessons themselves.
And now they're in a place where,you know, they're
surprised by all of these thingsthat they need.
And, you know.
Well.
What am I going to do with this diaperor me?
Or I mean, it, it is true.
(29:54):
It'd be niceif there were as many instructions.
I wonder, though, if we don't honor thatas much, because for most of it, it ends.
And sadness.
And so it's, I think, hard for all of usto prepare for sadness,
and we're sort of more in denialabout that happening.
I don't know if if that was the casefor you, but.
(30:16):
I mean, it's the case for everybody.
I mean, sadness is, is is eminent,you know, but it's like
there are a lot of help in, you know,having good communication with your
with your person and communityand also self-reflection.
I mean, it's like to be able to landin a place where it's like
you challenge your own thoughts.
It's like it should come from a placeof a celebration of life.
It's what you're doing for Doctor Bail.
(30:38):
I mean, it's it's a celebration of lifeby remembering works.
And we should be challenged definitelyto look at it in a different way.
It's very hard.It's easier said than done.
I could sit here,
blab my mouth, but when you're in ayou're like, man, this is this is painful.
This is it's. Tough. It's tough.
So it's lonely.
I remember being very lonely and thinking,I don't, I don't know what tomorrow
(30:59):
is going to bring because I'mclearly seeing that each day is different.
And I've gotten to a placewhere I think this can't get any tougher.
And the next day would be a new challenge.
And I would get through that dayand I would have taken on that
new challenge when, the day before I saidI can't, you can't give me any more.
Right.
And it is really something.
And look how interesting that is.
It's like with you, you're like,I don't know
(31:21):
how I'm going to get through today.It feels very lonely.
I think that's the number one thingthat caregivers talk about.
And it's with caregiving at an early stageor later in life.
It's there's always this loneliness,
you know, it's like,and it doesn't have to be that way.
And it'salmost like the allegory of the cave.
You just see things a certain way.
But when you come out and some of this
is this blinding,when you get out of the cave
and you see this blindingkind of reality of like,
(31:42):
I think people want to support my effortsand they just didn't know.
So I mean, it's yeah, it's.
I was just going to saybasically the same thing.
It's like you put yourselfin this space and you don't.
You either don't want to ask for helpbecause you want to do it
all yourself, or you don't thinkother people would want to help.
Yeah, yeah.
And why do they want to come inand do this?
I'll just do it myself. And it's comicalif you think about it.
(32:04):
It's like I need helpor what do you need help with?
What?
Well, I don't know what, but I need help.
I don't know what it is, but.
Well, if you need help,if you know you need help.
You got that much? What?What do you need further?
I don't know, you know, and that'sokay too.
It's serious. But it it is funny.
It is.
It's like, that's the only wayyou can get through something like that,
you know, like,
how do you diffuse tensionthat can oftentimes be very happy to carry
(32:28):
with humor?
Yeah. Yeah.
I still wonder if one of the light bulb
moments, you know, that I experience
both through lossand now through birth, is
there is a focus on the entry into life,the birth of a baby.
And I like to say it's romanticizedbecause there's a cute baby, you know,
(32:48):
there's a beautiful baby.
And, you know, but really, the processof what a woman goes through to give
birth is not a pretty one. Right?
And so it's just romanticized
because it's like babies and cutenessand the beginning of a life.
And so when you thinkabout on the other side of life,
when you're helping someone transitionout of this life, it's also not pretty.
(33:11):
It's not pretty to watch. It's painful.
But ultimately, isn't
grief also a feeling that comes from love?
Right?
It's grief is, I think, a feeling
that so many people have a hard timeresponding to.
And that's maybe that'swhere the loneliness comes from, that
people don't know how to how to supportsomeone that's going through grief.
(33:32):
But when you look at grief reallyis it's a it's a feeling that is
base and rooted in love.
Yeah, right. Is hard to deny that.
Holding somebody's hand throughthat moment is
probably one of the biggest honorsthat somebody can go through.
And so what kind of tools and resourcesare there
to support someone through grief?
(33:54):
If we look at grief
with a lens of love, right, versusdoes this oh, this is a really sad thing.
I don't know how to handle it.
Yeah.
I supposethere are some resources out there,
but wouldn't it be niceif they could be marketed in a way
that there is available as the resourcesyou have when you're going through.
This. Pregnancy and childbirth? Yeah.
And that there shouldn't be shame aroundgrief.
No. Right.
(34:15):
Like some people, it's just like, oh,it just feels awkward to talk about.
I don't want to burden other peoplewith my grief.
Like there should, like,what have we de-stigmatize
the feeling of griefas something superhuman?
And your experiences love for that personthat you're missing, you know?
Yeah, it should be 100% okay.
And being able to notice that grief
(34:37):
should be something that you, as the griefwatcher, looks at and says, okay,
this person can use a little love,whatever that means.
Let me dig in.
And maybe that person says,I don't know, like you were saying, like,
I don't know what I need, but I need help.
But just to keep asking the questionsand hold the hand and be there.
But I think a lot of us can't, you know,that's stigmatized.
(34:58):
Grief might, you know, mean you.
You aren't strong, thatyou can't just keep on plugging ahead.
We're not supposed to feel stressed
or anxious or worried,and but that's all part of being human.
And I think you can experiencethose things and accept them in others.
(35:19):
When you come from this place of love,which again,
we just have to learnhow to how to start from love.
Yeah, absolutely.
So then you mentionedthat humor is a tool that you could use
in the caregiving process,
and it sounds like you've been ableto share that via your podcast maybe.
And these documentaries.
So like what does that meanor what kind of thing would be
(35:44):
funny and, and
create happiness for either the caregiveror those being taken care of.
How did that gel?
There's an unspoken rule in comedywhere it's like you're able to kind of
speak to the communitiesthat you're a part of your
your personal experiences,what you can bring on stage.
And I think because that was my livedexperience and, you know, I'm still in it,
(36:05):
there's a feeling of connectingwith people
who are going through the same thing,right?
When somebody goes to a comedy club,they're either relating to what's going on
with the comedian saying or they're drawnin, you know, it's storytelling.
So it's either I love storytelling,
I love comedy, I feel like comedyhas been my North star, and I've dedicated
my waking hours to to walkin that direction through storytelling.
(36:25):
So when I talked about caregiving,I found a community in AARP.
You know, it's like,you know, at the time when we did the
the documentary,they were working alongside Google, right?
And they did a big research project,and they wanted to see what it was
that caregivers needed time and laughter.
Right.
That's the two things that someone in, inthe midst of caregiving is going to need.
(36:49):
And that's when they created,an event called Care to laugh?
You know, caregivers and caregiverswere able to come down to a comedy
club, have dinner, watch a comedy show,and just just a break
to their day to dayand being able to do that.
When you talk about your experiencesat the time, like, for example,
like I had this experiencewhere I talked about
my mother gave me a call and she needed
(37:10):
there was a bunch of supplements thatshe would take and she gave me a call.
I need these vitamins and supplements.
You mind picking something up on the wayhome, a CVS or a Walgreens?
And I remember going in thereand one of the things that she needed
was this thingcalled, hair, nail skin, right?
That the doctor had told her to take. So.
So I go in there,the cashier was very nosy.
(37:30):
I mean, there's nobody
in the store at one in the morning,so they strike up a conversation.
So she kind of scans this hair nail,skin supplement, and she looks at it.
She looks at me.
She looks back. Down she goes.How long have you been taking these. For,
And I'm like.
You know.
Have your business, you know?
Sure. First off.
You know, it's for my mom.
(37:51):
She goes
Okay.
You know.
So it's these moments of like that
situation would not have happenedif I wasn't a caregiver.
And I had that, that open channel of like,hey can you pick this up for me.
They're funny little things.
I've even I look back to me in my 20sbuying diapers like, oh, nobody cares.
(38:12):
But you're so embarrassed to be seenwith this box of diapers.
And I used to go to CBSat one in the morning to buy them
because no one was there.
And you can buy little packs,kind of hide them.
And again, same cashier, she goes, youknow, I see you buy these all the time.
Who are they for?
And I was so embarrassed.I go, I was like, oh, they're for me.
I hate, you know, doing laundry.
So I just buy these, you know,
trying to diffuse the situation againwith humor as best as I can.
(38:35):
Yeah.
Not a knock against her, just,you know, trying to diffuse it.
And she goes, you know,they have men's sizes.
I said, no, I like the women's sizes.
They'rethey're a little more snug on me. But
these moments
may seem may seem not fun in the moment.
You know, you're like, oh, I'mso embarrassed that they're asking me why.
You know, ultimately, humor servesas my art form.
(38:56):
I take those stories to the stageand I can tell it to
a roomful of caregivers and caregivers,you know, like.
And they'll laughbecause they'll have a version of that.
They will.
And that'show those tentacles of connection
are formed is like,I get what you're saying.
Yeah.
And that that joke will resonatemore in a roomful of caregivers,
or it might not resonatein a, in a, in a comedy club,
(39:20):
but it might resonate with one personthat goes, brother, I know.
Where you're going,I got that. I'm not alone. Yeah.
But I think it even
would resonate with people who are notcaregivers, are being cared for,
and that they could imagine themselvesin that position someday.
And then when they're they'll, they'll bethey'll remember that and think.
Remember, bring a giggle when there might.
(39:41):
Did doctor
Bill have anything around like painand time like like humor or anything
like that, where it's like as it connectsbecause there's a level of love there.
I think where you're ableto look back with love and go mad.
Yeah, to some degree.
I mean, I think he was very thoughtfulabout his life experiences
and how as an older person,he could look back
(40:02):
and see how directed he was because of,
you know, taking this road to the leftor that road to the right,
and then turning some of the misstepsinto humorous experiences.
They weren't really missteps.
I mean, they still led him to be
where he ended up beingand gave him the life experience he had.
(40:24):
So, you know, nothing is truly a misstep.
It's just an opportunityto look at something in a new way.
I was I would say, yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Being able to look at iton a different lens.
Yeah. It's funny.
So you if you could justtake the opportunity to stop like
coming down on yourself and say, okay,
why did I do this or why am I hereand what can I do with it?
(40:46):
Where can I gowith this thing that I just experienced?
I think that this comedy businessis so interesting,
because I do think that so many of usthink we're alone in an experience.
And when you hear somebody on the stagetalk about some simple thing
that happensin, let's say, in your life, and you go,
(41:08):
oh, I never thought of that
as being funny or I never thought of thathappening to anybody else.
And then everybody in the audienceis doing the same thing.
It's like, Yeah.
And you can kind of take a sigh of relief
and you feel like you're partof a community.
Whereas before you were like this alien,you know, wandering out in space
on your own.
Yeah.
Thinking you're the only one who'sgot to buy diapers for their elderly mom.
(41:31):
Yeah. So thank you for that.
That's a big deal to kind of help usfigure out a way to feel less alone.
I think it definitely is a connector.
It brings people together, I think.
I mean,there's more comedy clubs than ever.
Why are people going to a comedy clubso much?
Or theaters?
You look at so many great comedianswho are touring and everyone is
(41:51):
like has their own style of comedyand why are they going to this thing?
It's almost like,
church like, you know, and it's likethey're looking for connection.
They're looking for a moment of,of, of laughter to get,
you know, to get their mind offof their daily problems, possibly.
And we go so far out of our way to go.
You know. Yeah.
It's it's not cheap to kind of bring itfull circle to what we're talking about.
(42:12):
It's it's all love,you know, it's like I want to go share
Laughs and I'm going to bring somebodyI care about you know and
share this laugh with
or I'm going to go aloneout of an act of love for myself.
It's like I deserve to laugh.
Yeah I need to laugh.
So I think we all need to laugh.
It's really interesting now that you saythat, how many different places
(42:34):
you can go to find comedy these days.
It's just it's like propelling itself.
It's great.
Yeah.
It's a boom online.
It's a boom in live performances.
And also as a as a spectator.
You know it's really interestingand fascinating to watch.
Sort of the energy that happens in a roomand that every room is different.
(42:54):
You know I, I've seen his practicehis material.
And oftentimes, you know,I might be hearing the same material
in different shows, but it has differenteffects in different people.
And so the makeup of who'ssitting in the audience, it really becomes
this exchange of energybetween who's onstage and who's there.
(43:15):
And so it's really cool to watch,you know,
his shoes have a very disciplined approachto writing.
And, you know,
people think that you just get upand you're funny and you say funny things.
There's actually a lot of disciplinethat goes into crafting a story
and practicingand exchanging that energy in real time
with the people who are there,because the audience is going to change
(43:37):
for every show, and that energy is goingto be dictated by who's in the audience.
Yeah, that's pretty amazing.
Yeah.
Comedy's so, so interesting that even witheverything you just said of like,
preparation, years of work, you know, it'slike I've done it for a while.
I prepare on a daily, I perform regularly,
but all those things can be rendereduseless because there is so many variables
(43:58):
to control.You can't control all of them. No.
You're just going to have good nightsand bad nights,
and you might have two bad nightsand one night, you know.
Could you do multiple shows?
Kirk Fox is a comedianwho I love his work.
He he says it jokingly,
but there is so much truth to his likelike breathe out love.
You know, it's likeit's like they just want to be loved.
Man is like sometimes a heckler islike they're yelling or being disruptive
in a certain way.
(44:18):
Sometimes they don't even knowthey're doing that.
They think they're helping or they thinkthey're they're meeting in a good way,
or sometimes they're they're just drunkor any number of things.
He's like, but he's like,if you could just handle that with love.
And I've always remember that,that is that.
He's told me that sometimesyou have to resort to what I call like
a verbal ass weapon to this heckler,because that's maybe what it needs.
(44:40):
But if you do it, what's love?It's like, it's not going to be.
You hope it's not taken the wrong way.
I mean,I don't know how it's received, but
there has to be a level of crowd controlthat it's like, all right,
you know,it's like you can have back and forth.
All right.
We're good.
Okay, I'm going to go back to the showbecause everyone around you
paid full price and that,and they hate to listen to you.
So do.
But you do it with love.
And she's seen me kind of like,be successful with it and and oftentimes
(45:03):
not successful with it.But that's the beauty of it.
That's what you're like.
You're like, okay,I think I learned something from this
and I can go back and do it again.
But that must be part of what keeps this,this journey interesting for you,
in that you could be working the same setfor a few nights, a few weeks,
but every audience is going to make thatset different.
(45:24):
Yeah, oftentimes
these feelings of impostersyndrome might arise because you're like,
I know I've done this.
Well before, but I can't do it here.
And I'm falling into a patternnot being able to get to an audience.
But comedy is trial and error.
Actually,you had a talk about imposter syndrome
that you recorded was aroundimposter syndrome, and I remember that.
(45:45):
That helped me a lot
because I was able to look at thatand be like, okay, sometimes
we want to control so many variables
and we induce our own levelof like imposter syndrome.
Yeah.
I mean,I think the the concept of imposter
syndrome is sort of being somewherethat you don't feel deserving of, right?
And so whether you're on stageor you're in a position of power at work
(46:11):
or, you know,and there's all these variables
that tell you, like, you're not funnyenough or you're not smart enough.
And even just the concept of impostersyndrome, I believe, is something
that has been imposed on people,I think, to add to insecurities.
And many of those insecuritiesare built around systemic failures, right?
(46:31):
To have people not be able to succeed.
But I think ultimately, you know,when you remind yourself
that what you bring to the table,whether it's to a stage or to a meeting
room or to a business you know, is uniquebecause of your own lived experiences.
(46:52):
Right? And you stand on that.
I think that's ultimatelywhat is the the best form of engagement
and having a two way conversationwith someone. Right.
You know, I believe that this isboth in comedy and in career is the best.
Comedians are not ones that just standon a microphone and speak one way,
but it's the peoplewho are able to have that dialog.
(47:14):
But to read the to.
Read the room, to understandthat a heckler is maybe just a person
that's having a tough dayor just having to have fun or
and you, you look at this as athis is a two way street.
We're both in this together. Right?
I think it it's a good reminder, you know,when when you step into a meeting
or you know, something that you findintimidating and to say, actually,
(47:37):
like, I'm not alone in this, my livedexperience has brought me to this room.
And so what I have to say matters.
And also,I'm not the only one talking here.
I should also listen.
And it helps make itless heavy and less intimidating.
Yeah, that's athat's a great thing to keep in mind.
I agree with. Yeah. Yeah.
What about like has Doctor Bail,has he done any work around that.
(48:00):
Like specifically. Where.
Yeah he I think he believes
that many of us are most of the timeimposters in our own lives.
And that we are doingwhat we need to survive
and not recognizing that we're not doingwhat we are meant to be doing.
We're doing those thingsthat unconsciously, we've been told
(48:22):
we need to do to support the trauma
that we've carried, thatwe don't know how to let go of.
We we've been toldunconsciously, most likely, that,
you know, you're not really very lovable.
And so you put yourself in positionswhere, you know,
you're not really very lovable.
(48:43):
And so you, you, you're pretending to bethis thing that you're not.
And you come from a placeof not being very lovable.
You'rewhat does that mean? You're you're shy.
You don't feel like you deservea place at the table.
Or there's this person that seems to be
wantingto get to know you in a romantic way.
And you're like,well, I'm not really very lovable.
(49:05):
So I'm going to figure outhow to undo this.
And and even when it comes to career,you know, I am going to be an imposter.
My I learned from my grandfatherand my mom
that the only path for me was law school.
And oh, that must be what I want to do.
But it doesn't resonate.
It doesn't sit and but you're an imposter.
(49:27):
You're going to law school when reallyyou wanted to be the camera person
at the circus on Saturdaysand, you know, mind the zoo.
The rest of the week,
and you can't do thatbecause there's shame to it.
Or you might not be able to bein this comfort zone
that you created for yourself,so that you could exist
without all this love, or with being ableto choose your own path.
(49:51):
You geared yourself.
You fashioned yourself to be okay
in the presence of others,to not disturb the status quo.
Yeah.
I mean, and that's something that I've,I've seen a lot in, especially in work.
I'm trying to advance, you know,representation, diversity and inclusion.
(50:11):
As of late I've been seeing moreof a pushback on that concept.
Right.
And to say,is it imposter syndrome or is it
that some odds have been stacked against
your success?
Right.
Like how do you differentiate to say,oh, I have imposter syndrome.
And this is something that I have to workon, and yet it adds another thing
(50:34):
that you have to worryabout to push through or to say, actually,
it's an imposter syndrome,is that I don't have proper guidance or
I don't have the right leadership, right?
Or I don't have the tools that I needfor me to be successful in this position
or my path to get to this position
was very different to this other peer
(50:57):
who got to this positionthrough different resources.
Being aware ofthat is just as important, right?
Because then you start to understandwhat you need to ask for.
So why do I put this on myself?
Why do it?
Why am I feeling this imposter syndrome?
What does that mean for me?
What is uncomfortable about this?Why am I here?
(51:17):
What am I doing here?
What do these people mean to me?Are they helping me?
Do they see that this is a back and forththat we're having these conversations?
Wait,maybe I don't even really want to be here.
I mean, maybe I'm.
I'm really an imposter. Yeah.
So no.
So. But I did want to talk to youabout what
you're doing in the world of activism.
And I know you'reprobably taking a little break here with.
(51:40):
So, yeah. A little bit of maternity.
Maternity leave. So.
But what what led you to that?
And what does activism meanfor you in the work that you do?
Or 15 years ago,I started down the path of advocacy.
You know, it can have different namesadvocacy, social impact, activism.
Initiallymy work started with a nonprofit,
(52:00):
and so I, you know, startedmy expertise was marketing.
And so doing marketing and social mediaand content for nonprofits.
Later that evolved into working acrossdifferent sectors.
So for a consulting agencywhere a lot of my clients were nonprofits
or campaigns,sometimes political campaigns.
So all of these groupsthat you were supporting with your work
(52:24):
and your knowledgewere advocating for something.
Yes. Yes.
So social issues,mission driven organizations,
that advocate on a variety of, of topics.
Ultimately, a lot of my work is focused
in, in advancing or advocating for values,
(52:44):
you know, shared values, caringfor immigration or support for homeless
homelessness or, or, preventing,you know, gun violence in our country.
And what would an example of your workbe, say, toward the endeavor
of advocating for immigration?
I've worked with nonprofitsthat do work in immigration, and
(53:07):
my hard skill setis marketing and communications.
And so I often work with my clientsin helping think strategically about
how to come up with helpful, informationto share,
right, to educate peoplearound the challenges that immigrants
face or, you know, how to how to shapemore narratives and understanding,
(53:31):
Is that informationfor the immigrants themselves
and those receiving the immigrantsas the new country or town or city?
Yeah, it could be both in my case,because marketing is sort
of the a lot of the foundation of the workthat I've done.
You think of itas how do you reach people with messaging,
right, or content,you know, nowadays with social media.
(53:53):
And so it'show do you tell stories to everyday people
who are going about their everyday lifeto care about this one issue?
Right.
Well, you're ultimately reaching
people who are being saturatedwith messages all the time.
Of all sorts of.
All sorts.
That nonprofit is also in competitionwith the woman who's
(54:15):
trying to sell white t shirts.
Right.
You have to think abouthow do you educate people
on facts,you know, on what what is the context?
Look like?
How does it relate to you?
Why should you care about this?
And so it's what we like to callsort of like
movement building or sort of shaping,
shaping culture through through content,through information.
(54:38):
And so a lot of, a lot of this becomes,
you know, a back and forth and buildingrelationships, you know, with people
and getting them to care about different,different missions, different values.
Well, I think that's extreme importanceright now.
It's so crucial.
And, you know, we need to dothe same thing here with our podcast.
(55:00):
We're not selling anything,and we don't want you
to come and pay us moneyto hear our message.
We just want the most important thing,
which is love, to be known across
communities, you know,starting with each individual and then,
you know, carrying it forwardwhere we lift each other up and it's
(55:23):
amazing to meto think that we we give this out to
anyone, anyone, which is fantastic.
And, you know, hope thatsome people respond and understand
how precious that message is,which I guess is the case for anybody
who's, you know, trying to do something
(55:45):
to some degree of success on social media.
Yeah, I'm still learningwhat it's all about.
Yeah. It's ever evolving, you know.
And that'sthat's the challenge too, that, you know,
many organizationsand nonprofits in particular oftentimes
don't have the resourcesor the budgets to keep up.
Yeah, with their competitors.
(56:06):
You know, when you're scrolling onwhether it's Instagram or TikTok,
you know, your your little videothat you put together to advocate for
this one thing is competingwith this influencer who has very.
Different resources than you do. Yeah.
And so then, then thethe challenge there becomes,
how do you make sure that what you put outthere is a substance and,
(56:28):
and that it is something that capturespeople's attention?
You know, because the, the resourcesare very limited for many organizations.
Well, thank you for doing that.
I love that you have found a wayto focus on
helping those people who are interestedin helping the rest of us.
Yeah.
And even, like a the other thing,too, is, like you, I've come to learn that
(56:51):
your, your work revolves aroundeducating the person
that wants to get the message outthere is like to follow the,
the right and proper metricsbecause I think where you know, everyone
wants, say, views or this kind of thing,but it's like depending on what
the project is, is like
there are certain metricsthat you should value over others.
And then sometimes
(57:12):
you don't want the most views,you want the most people
to kind of interactand have a conversation about.
So I think that's alsokind of very important to to kind of
dispel certain things and kind of shedthe onion layers
to find the levelthat's pertinent to the message.
Or yes, it's romantic enough to say,I've got 6,000,000 million views.
(57:33):
But of what you know, I've learned thatseen her work and I'm like,
oh, it'snot the thing that we're all chasing.
I mean, sure it is, in a way,
but at the same time it's kind of like,oh, there's something at a deeper level,
just like anything elseor something of a deeper level.
You know, maybe you want to getto the kernel of it, the kernel.
Exactly.
And I think in today's world, it's so easyto get caught up in the rat race of
(57:54):
I got to pursue the viewsand the followers
and it becomes really transactional.
It does.
In order for people to be strategicwith their resources, it's helpful
to understand who is it that you'retrying to reach and for what.
Right, right.
You know, having very clearunderstanding of your goals.
Right.
And because it's very commonas a marketer to hear, like,
(58:16):
we want to reach everyone.
Okay, who's your targetaudience and everyone?
Okay. Let's let's get deeper.
When you do reach for everyone,what do you
what do you want them to take away
from the three seconds, if that, thatthey'll look at your message?
What is that thingthat you want them to remember.
And so oftentimesit's really just guiding, guiding
(58:36):
and helping each other.
Look at the North Starlike what is the ultimate purpose.
You know, forget what we call it. Yeah.
But let's let's get back to.
The what are you doing that's important.
And how are you going to get yourself
to a place where you can helpthese people that need the assistance?
And how do youand how do you measure that impact?
(58:58):
How do you measure that you'rebeing successful in doing that?
For you to knowthat you're being successful,
know you have to be clear in what whatthat mission is.
Yeah.
So sometimes havingthose conversations is helpful, right?
Is just getting out of
today's noise and getting away
from the controversial debate is saying,okay, let's get back to the basics.
(59:21):
What is it that we're trying to do?
Because hopefully it isjust today's noise.
Yeah.
And tomorrowis going to be a different noise.
Well thank you both.
I could talk to youfor another couple of hours,
but I think I've taken upenough of your time.
It was very swagger.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for having so fun.
Very such a great time. Oh, good.
(59:41):
And and do either of youhave a social media
presence or websitethat you'd like to share with us?
Sure. You can go to my website.
Just echo.comfor upcoming shows and events
and yeah,I post videos and upcoming tour dates.
They're great. Yeah.
And my consulting websiteis let those mediocre.
So yeah, check us out and
(01:00:04):
thank you so much also for the workthat you do through this podcast.
Oh that's nice.
This is such a wonderful conversation.
You know,
when when you reached out and shared whatthis was about, immediately were like,
this is such a cool opportunityfor both of us to do this together.
And, you know, to talk about our work,but also just how we do it.
Yeah.
You know, as a as a coupleand in partnership
(01:00:26):
together, you know, we are really honoredand flattered that you thought of us.
And that is here. Well, such a pleasure.
And you two both are totally all aboutlove. So.
Yeah. Yeah.
Here we go.
Thank you for watching.
And please get in touch with us
with any questions or comments,and we will see you next time.
Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks,and I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis
Foundation, founded by my latehusband, Doctor Bernard Bail.
Welcome to And Now Love.
Adria Marquez and Jesus
Trejo are with us today.
This will be new and different.
Having two people at one time to talkwith.
(00:26):
We've never done this before,so thank you for being our first.
Adria is the founder
and CEO of Latidos Media.
For more than 15 years.
She has specializedin the realms of social impact, DEI
strategies and advocacy.
(00:46):
Additionally,she has deep experience in marketing
partnerships and community engagement.
Adriaclearly comes from a place of empathy
and love, as she hasplaced herself in the position of caring
for the needs of othersin very difficult situations.
She hails from El Paso, Texas
(01:07):
and Ciudad Juarez, Mexico.
Jesus has been a stand up comedianfor over 19 years.
He is passionate about comedyand storytelling, as
is made clear by his continued success.
He is well known for his Showtime specials
Stay at Home and Practicing.
(01:29):
He has been featured on The Late Late Show
with James Cordenand The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon.
Also, he is the author of two awardwinning books, Papa's
Magical Water Jug Clock,for which he received
the Pura Belpre honor, and Mama's
Magnificent Dancing Platitas.
(01:50):
He is the host and executiveproducer of Tacos Con Todo
on First We Feast and the PBS docu series
Roots of Comedy,where he explores stories behind the jokes
in and amongst all of this.
He has been a loving caregiverto his parents, where he found ways
(02:11):
beyond the obviousto help them feel comfortable
and happy, and to help himselffind a smile or a little relief
during the especially tough times.
Beyond all of these excellent thingsthat these two do,
they are married to each otherand have a beautiful newborn
(02:32):
baby girl, Xoe, who I just met.
They are learning how to balance familywork, shared time, individual time,
and all that comes with bringinga beautiful baby into the world.
So welcome and again, thank you.
And there's so much to talk aboutbecause you guys have so much going on.
Thank you for having us.Thank you. For yours.
(02:53):
Of course I have to be here.
Well, I have some questions,
so I may look down occasionallyand I to forget some of my questions.
But first of all, for you,this your little angel.
Both of yours is only seven weeks old.
Yeah,she's about to be seven in a few days.
And you? Seven, seven weeks. Seven weeks.
(03:14):
Seven weeks. Yeah.
And you are now no longer pregnant.
You were obviously pregnant.This is what happens.
Yeah.
And I wondered if you could share
how you seewhat your friends have been through, where
people you know,who have been through pregnancy,
(03:35):
what are some of the thingsthat seem important to pregnant people
or people who are bringing childreninto this world today?
Yeah.
You know, it's been just quite, a journey.
And a wild roller coaster,as I like to say.
You know, the I feel like
(03:57):
people share stories or, you know,
people tell youand share their experiences.
But no matter how much you prepare
or how much people sharewhat they've gone through,
it's like you really don't knowuntil you live it, right?
You know,you can hear from other people's stories.
And, you know, I like to havea good balance of being prepared
(04:20):
and research, seeing and hearingfrom other people to know what to expect,
but also not try to take onother people's experiences
and just kind of be presentand live that experience myself.
So it's been just like a wonderful journey
to go through, very different,both expected and unexpected.
What what is mostimportant is just having support
(04:43):
and having community and friendsto reach out to.
Having an, a solid partnership.
You know, whether you're a significantother and say, we're in this together.
And although we both may be going
through this experience in our own waysand feeling different things,
having that solid partnershipand reminding yourself
(05:05):
that you're ina team is essential, is essential.
You know, oftentimesthis is the one reminding me,
you know, holding up the mirrorand saying, you got this, you know,
and reminding me that everything's okay orvice versa, just talking through things.
So I think the most important thingis just having that support,
both from your partnerand from friends, from family.
(05:28):
Crucial, crucial.
So being pregnant is really a gift.
And I don't know that all of usrecognize it as such.
There are babies being born every day.
It's hard to remember thatthis is a unique experience,
completely unknown until you're in it,
(05:50):
even though it happens every day.
It's it's an interesting thing to tackle.
You know, this thing is happeningall around me all the time.
It's happening to me.
And I never knew any feeling like this.
I never had this kind of fear.
I never had this kind of love.
I never had this kind of curiosityabout this thing.
Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
(06:11):
I would joke about thata lot because, you know,
you hearabout how it's such a miracle, right?
And the processand what a woman's body goes through and
her mind and her brain, and you're like,what a what a miracle.
And I'm like, this is the most commonmiracle because we all got here somehow.
That's right.
So maybe maybe it just does.
(06:32):
It doesn't get the recognitionthat it should.
Right.
Because each journeyfor every woman is so unique
and so complexand so just recognizing both the duality
of a very common and reoccurring miracle,but still a miracle in itself. Yes.
Right.
(06:52):
Like whatan individual person goes through in,
you know, their pregnancy journey or birth
giving journey is so uniqueand it truly is a miracle.
What what our bodies can do is astounding.
It really is.
Yeah.
I mean, that was the first timeI think I ever really felt
a miracle was when my son was born.
(07:13):
It's like, how did this happen? Yeah.
But but to that, I remember also thinkingbeing pregnant
and thinking how awesome and unusualit was.
And and then again, how everybody else is,
you know, herebecause somebody was pregnant.
Yeah.
It makes you thinkabout other facets of life like that too.
(07:34):
Right.
So what I think is commonplace or whatI think is super easy may not be so.
Or when I apply it to myself,it may not be the same as it was for Jack
or Betty or Sue or Allen,even though you think we're all
walking around with the same ideasin our heads, you know, those
or the same solutionswere really, really not.
(07:54):
And I think that's something to honorall the time, is
that we are not all experiencingthe same thing the same way.
And even though something physical,like giving birth to a child
is sort of the same thing.
It's not the same thing. It's not.
And recognizing that people go throughthis experience in different contexts
with different resources,with different levels of support.
(08:18):
Right.
And I think that's where thethe empathy should come in.
Right.
So this is something universalthat so many people go through.
Well, it's it'sdifferent for every person for a reason.
Right.
And some of those things are individualand internal,
and some of thoseare things outside of our control to. Yes.
And some of us struggle.Some of us don't want to be where we are.
Some of us are so excited, and all ofthose things are something to honor.
(08:42):
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Especially when they involve,you know, bringing a little person
into this worldwho needs to live a life coming from love.
So we have a lot to do to help ourselvesas parents and pregnant women.
And and I don't know that I've ever askeda dad this question so much, but
(09:03):
we were talking a little bit.
You were talking about your partnershipand how important that was.
Is it sort of weird to kind of be out here
while all this is going on over here
with Adria and Xoe and your
do you feel out thereor do you feel in it?
I mean, you definitely feel connected.
(09:24):
I mean, it's, it's Xoe came aboutbecause of,
you know, us being together, you know, sothere is some some.
You know Xoe, without. You, yeah.
There would be no Xoe without us.
And and we quickly find outthat there's no us without Xoe.
Yeah.
It's like a natural progression,you know that?
Weird how that happens.
It's weird.
It's, there's a sequence to life, and Ithink, you know, as the more life unfolds
(09:47):
and you have these unique experiences,the more you understand it.
But even my understanding is so differentthan the next person.
It's basicallywhat you guys have just touched on.
I think it'sthere's a sense of being connected.
There's a sense of,there's a sense of understanding.
There's like the family is expanding,but so is our level of comprehension
to this thing.
So it's like, you know, people talk aboutthat the universe is ever expanding.
(10:09):
I think it's the knowledge that's like,
makes us grow as a family, as a couple,as a as a person, as a dad, as,
there's so many identitiesthat grow with every experience.
So, yeah, it feels it feels awesome.
It feels pretty cool.
And it's amazing to be sort of partof the ongoing human experience or.
Yeah, it's the most, relatable,common experience that we know of.
(10:33):
I mean, it's it's life and death,
you know, those two thingsthat are guarantee that,
you know, we're going to experienceat one point in our lives and,
you know, we're going to experience.
No, some know like it'sone of those interesting. Yeah. Things.
So yeah, they cannot be avoided.
They cannot be avoided.
But they're very beautifulin their own way.
Yeah.
And I would say he,he was involved in the know not just,
you know, supporting me and helping
(10:55):
do things that I couldn't dobecause of the I was pregnant,
but also just something as, as simpleas bringing joy to our day to day.
You know, that's when I say I'm like,I'm so lucky to be married to a comedian
because the laughs were always abundant,to sort of always
be surrounded by laughter when you'repregnant is just like one of those things.
(11:15):
You're like, okay, if I do anything right,it's going to be this, you know,
like, I'mgoing to give that gift to my baby.
Of her constantly feeling my laughing,you know.
And like, you know.
And that's been great partthanks to her father.
So that's really precious.
So it was it was pretty easy for youto feel like you were part of the process.
And I think it helped when you tell meotherwise, when you could see
(11:37):
that you being part of the processwas making Adria happier.
And, and I would imagine there be daysyou're like, oh geez, I'm so tired.
But I still have to do all these things.
I still have peopleI promised I would get to to help,
and I've got work to do,and you could take some of that steam off.
Yeah, I it technically wasn'tanything different that we were doing that
(12:00):
we weren't doing before,but it was just kind of like now
I was under the scope of this process,you know, this, this kind of
unfolding pregnancyinto unfolding motherhood, fatherhood.
Yeah.
I was a part of it is it'salmost like whether I wanted to or not,
we were still living our livesas we as we were,
but now we have a new experiencesthat we're doing it under.
So yeah, it felt really nice thatthat we were still connected, if not more,
(12:24):
you know, during this thing.
So yeah, I think both of us
loving what we do for workand being so invested in our careers,
we both had to learnhow to move at a different pace.
You know, personally myself,you know, I was consulting
and sometimes being okaywith reducing the amount of work
(12:44):
I was doing or kind of like softeningthe landing into that third trimester.
Right?
Not taking on more workthan I wanted to handle or.
That's hard, you know. It's hard to do.
It's sort of slowing downwhen you're so used to, you know, this
culture of hustle,you know, forcing yourself
to slow downand give yourself permission to
(13:07):
to feel a little bit boredand a little bit of the, the slowness.
And, you know, with Jesus,it was a similar process.
You know, he'sso used to being on the road
and traveling, and towards the end of it,it was okay.
Like, I need to be close by a little bitmore, you know, in case of or so.
Also, you know, going througha similar experience
(13:27):
of learning how to slow downand what we're so used to always.
It's a big, paradigm shift. Yes.
It's such a massive shift.
And I read this where it said,it's like kids are starting a family
forces you to slow down.But isn't that the point?
You know, because we areso I think outside of that,
we're we're built to pick up patternsand trying to improve
(13:49):
and trying to find this, this thing.We want to attain this thing.
But it's also part of I don't thinkeither of us thought we were going to
have a family or this kind of thing.
It's like it wasn'tsomething we really considered.
I, you know,I speak for myself that I was like,
I thought maybe having a familywasn't in the cards for me.
But right now, in this moment is like,we're allowed to have a different opinion
and we're allowed to pivot.
You know, we're allowed to flight.
(14:11):
Correct.
And and right now, I can tell you thatit's like after reading that, I'm like,
oh, that that spoke to me.I think at a deep level
that is like, isn't that the pointto have you slow down?
One? I think initial reaction is like,oh, I don't want to slow down.
I want to do this, I want to do that.
And now maybe you're not able to do that,or the version of doing that is different
than what you thought it was.
(14:31):
But again, isn't that the point?
I think there's some truth to that.
There is.
And I mean, look at what came intoyour life and Xoe and the feelings
that come along with Xoeand the feelings that now the three of you
have together that you might nototherwise had if you didn't slow down.
Yeah, you could still parentand not slow down. Yeah.
(14:52):
Like slowing down, kind of lookingat things different as people call it.
Quitting now, playing.
But it's all how you look at itultimately.
Yeah. Everything happens for a reason.
And if you leave yourself open to things,you know, you'll see those little
magical signs.
You know. It put things into perspective.
I mean, we had this one funny,
funny instance in
which as we were getting really close,I think I was maybe at like 37 weeks,
(15:17):
you know, his son was on his last trip,
you know, that he said, after that,I'm not going to travel
because we're going to be sort ofin waiting mode.
He was up in the Bay area and,you know, he kept checking in.
Everything okay? Everything.
And we had talked aboutwhat does it look like?
You know, if baby comes early,you know, he's like, I'm
going to be ready to jump on a flightor rent a car if I need to.
(15:40):
This one night, he's on the show.
And usually I know, you know,not to call or text when he's on stage.
But I also know that his phone isprobably on Don't Disturb.
Or like,I know that he won't have his phone out,
you know, while he's performing.
And this is one time I'm at home, I'mjust sitting in my recliner
being very pregnant.
(16:01):
And I saw I saw thathe posted something on his stories.
I was like, oh,he must be done with the show.
And so I gave him a callto say good night.
And I just hear he picks upand I just hear this loud echo.
He goes, baby, I'm on stage.
Is everything. Okay?
Oh my gosh.
And I say,
oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes, please,please go back to what you were doing.
(16:22):
And I hung up immediately and I was like,he's never done that before.
But there was something comforting to know
that, like he wasyou were that he was paying attention.
He was and you know,and that I know his ability
to bring that show backto where it needed to be.
But that he was he was checking on us,you know, he was ready to answer.
(16:42):
I just I was like, wouldn't it
be funny if I was like, hey, can youcan you send some cookies?
Because I'm having some great.
Yeah.
There's a, there's a level of,there's a level of mindfulness
or there's a level of, responsibility.
You know, it goes to the word love.
You know, we started the podcastby hearing the word love, you know,
and so it's there's a,there's a level of that in all that we do.
(17:05):
And, you know,when you're in that position,
there's a sense of you're steppinginto this new responsibility.
So maybe you're a little more hyper awarethat maybe if I was like my third
or fourth kid, I'd be like, you know,I'll check my voicemails afterwards.
But but again, youyou spoke to that earlier.
It's a it's a new experience.
You know, it's something very newand you wouldn't know
until you're in it and you're,you know, while you're in it, you know.
(17:28):
So it was just my way of like,I don't know what this is going to be,
but I could, I could,
I could put forth an effort of mindfulnessand, and, you know, showing that I care.
And alsoyou want to be there for those things.
It's pretty. Exciting. Stuff.
Yeah. Yeah, it's exciting stuff.
You don't want to miss outon those things.
Even if it's you know,send me some cookies, you know.
Yeah. So.
(17:49):
Well, I think that,
again, one of the best things we can dois figure out how to love these little
creatures that are living inside, insideus, that we're already trying
to make into loving individualswho have their own paths.
And that's called. Bacteria.
And because you want to read bacteria,that's what she's describing.
(18:12):
Exactly.
Well, some people think that.
Yeah. Kids. Absolutely.
You're absolutely right.
Yeah. It's, Yeah, it's special.
Yeah,it is, it is. And here you're into it.
A giant almost seven weeks. Yes.
It's so funny in the beginninghow that period of time, it's like, well,
it's been seven weeks. Yeah.
And you know, down the road like in a yearyou'll be like it's been a whole year.
(18:38):
And then you think back about seven weeks.
It's like that was like a day. Yeah.
And but it's so monumental isn't it.
All the things that happenin this seven weeks
or the next 14 weeks and,and you think about this,
I don't know if you
are doing this,but I used to think about that little baby
being kind of that way for a long time,a long time.
(19:02):
And, and it shifts so quickly.
And I mean, that's so much funto see all these changes, but
you get so invested in a particular stageand it's gone.
Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot.
Just the the perception of timeis so different during that,
you know, and as of late, you know,I recently had my six week checkup
(19:26):
and everyone says I doesn't have fly by.
And I actually usually respond like I'mnot there yet.
I'm not there yet where.
I can say it's gone really fast.
And I don't mean that in any negative way,but I think I have felt
every passing momentof the last six weeks.
Right.
Because there's just so much well, one,there's all the logistics of
(19:51):
tracking all the hours and how many hoursthey've been since she a and you're,
you're tracking literally every minute,you know of, of the the day that passes.
And so it feels like the days andthe weeks kind of blend into each other.
I know at some point I'll look backand be like, where did my baby go?
(20:11):
That's right. She's a, a whole child.
I like to think that, like,
we've stayed super present,you know, for the last six weeks.
And sometimes that also feels like, oh,
we feel really tiredbecause the days feel really long.
But we can say thatwe've we've experienced and felt and.
Yeah,
felt every,every passing hour of the last six weeks.
(20:31):
So how do you find time to also likeyou're still recovering.
How do you find timeto take care of yourselves.
Like do you take one night or.
I don't know what your sleeppatterns are at home but there.
Is no pattern right now. Yeah.
I'm sorry I guess seven weeks. Yeah.
There is no pattern yet.
I don't think we have a propersample size.
(20:53):
Yeah, it's day by day, but it's like,to answer your question, I think self-care
just looks different at secondby second, minute by minute hour.
You know, we can keep going on,you know, day by day, week by week, month.
You know, it keeps going.
But I think in the and the day to day,there is moments in between where it's
kind of like tap in and, you know,she adds time to herself, whether it's
it could be any number of things.
(21:14):
It could be watching TV,it could be just sitting there.
It could be a cup of coffee.
It could be just staring off into space,you know,
it's like whatevertime is, is allowing us to do.
Sometimes it's taking a nap,sometimes it's,
you know, goingshopping at your favorite grocery store.
You know, it's like those those thingsdo so much for us
because at at our age,you know, we've identified what we like
(21:35):
and what recharges youand what takes away.
So if you're able to do
even just a little bit of that, it's like,I think that's a form of self-care.
Yeah. It takes a lot of communication too.
Right.
Like communicating to each other and sortof learning how to express your needs.
And I will say thatwhen you're in postpartum, sometimes
things can feel so overwhelmingthat you don't know what you need.
(21:56):
You know, you need you know,you need support.
But it's it's difficultto figure out what to ask for.
Or what shape does that come. In? Yeah.
What's the right thing to request?
This is where, you know, HSAsbeing such a wonderful partner
and it has so much experiencewith caregiving.
He understands when he steps inand tells me, you know what,
(22:18):
I think you need an hour to yourself.
Why don't you go to your favoritegrocery store or, you know,
why don't you take a napand encouraging me and making that space?
A lot of things we do, we take turnsand and there is shifts and there is.
So he's equally involvedin the changing of diapers and the feeding
and also to express it for himself.
You know, I'm going to take a napor starting to get out and do some shows.
(22:41):
And he says, oh,I really enjoyed being back on stage.
You know, he stays local. Yeah, local.
But then he's like,
but it was great to be back on stage,you know, for a couple of hours.
And so having that open dialog.
Right. Did you. Eat yet.
Yeah.
Self-care is such an important thingwhich I also would love to know what
how you identifyand when it comes to self-care,
(23:04):
what you need and how do you get that?
Because that to me has always been like,something that I had to learn.
You know, being a caregiver,
how do you reach outor how do you express to somebody
what it is that you need for self-careto get you back to your baseline or where
you would like to be like, yeah, is theresomething you look for or look to ask.
That's that is a huge topic.
(23:25):
So according to Bernard,
many of us don't even knowthat we can ask that question.
We don't know thatthat's a place where we can exist.
We just continue to maneuver through life
in this little world of turmoil.
And because that's what we know,we don't know, we're entitled.
(23:47):
Anything else? Yeah.
And I think that's a it'sit's really a shame
that a lot of us have not come to a placewhere we understand we deserve
to take care of ourselves, and we deserveto be taken care of by others also.
And so really, what we need to doas individuals
(24:07):
is find out why we're lovable
and what it is, who it is
that we love and know what love feels like
and once we know what love feels like,honestly, deeply,
we can honor that we deserve itand that we can gift it to ourselves.
(24:29):
We can say, wait a minute,what is this feeling I have today?
I, I don't know, maybe that nap,I could do that instead of this and,
and be okay with it and realizethat you're, you're giving yourself
this thing that is making makingyou healthy, stronger,
whatever it is that you needand and to be able to recognize
(24:49):
that then and other people,I think, can only be done
when you totally investin taking care of yourself.
You can see that other people will alsobenefit from it, and it won't be a,
a task or a burden.
So much for you to help those around youthat you love.
(25:11):
It'll sort of come naturally.
So to that mister great caregiver.
Not a great one, just,you know, doing my honest best.
So you stepped inand took care of your parents
when they were not able to fullytake care of all their needs on their own.
Yeah, it'sI mean, caregiving, you know, manifests
(25:33):
at different times in different ways.So there is more.
There is not one kind of caregiving.
I always imagine, like caregiving.
Caregiving is a it's a two way street.
It's like almost like this podcast. Right?
We know our energy levels right now.
And what we're able to kind of affordto speak into the mic is like,
you're in charge of your own levels,
but there is somebody in the soundboardgoing, hey, like, I need to,
(25:55):
I need to give you a little more volumeor I'm getting some feedback.
This is, you know, I mean, it'sa two way street, much like we are.
You know, I'm, I'm, I'm detecting thatyou're peaking or it's a little low.
What's going on?
I mean, yeah,
but also they can detect their own levelsas, as much as we can identify
certain levels.
Like, I think caregiving is the same waythe mind is built to pick up on patterns.
So it's like when certain patterns aren't,aren't the same, you know, you
(26:17):
you have this sense of you mature
very quickly because you're like,I got to help out.
There's a sense of responsibilityearly on.
That's what we hope.
We hope.But I think it happens when you're a kid.
It's like translatingas a form of caregiving,
you know,when your parents don't know the language
and it's like, oh, I think I know this,
but they're having a hard timecommunicating.
There's a sense of responsibilitythat's just
(26:38):
nobody tells you to do to be like, oh,
I think they're, you know, youyou want to help.
It's, it's it's love.
It's like a natural thingthat we all have.
And that also feels goodwhen when your mom is struggling
because she's trying
to communicate something to someoneand she can't get it across, and you can,
it feels good for you to take that sortof anxiety away from her.
Yeah,it feels good for you as a as a human.
(27:00):
Caregiving, a caregiving could be a parenttaking care of of a special needs kid.
It could be taking care of a pet,a young person taking care of an
elderly loved one, and vice versa.
There's so many aspects,so it's like it's a natural occurrence,
I think, to want to support somebodyand in some way,
you know, it's like like we would here,it takes a village to raise a kid.
(27:23):
And I did a documentary with themin 2017 called Care to Laugh?
We were the subjects of this documentary.
It was my parents and I, and,you know, I'm following stand up comedy.
That's my North Star.
But I'm also a caregiver at the sametime, juggling both.
So you can even call it the motifof the documentary, where it's like
it also requires a villageto help somebody age gracefully.
(27:43):
So caregiving isis the opposite of equal reaction.
You know, it's like for an aging parent,it's like you're caregiving
to this final point.
But when you have a kid,it's like it's a beginning point.
Onward. Caregiving requires a community.
It requires support of a partnership,loved one's community, family,
what have you.
So yeah, his shoes off and talksabout how the tables turn right.
(28:07):
You know, from raising a childto raising your parents.
And, you know, I think about that a lot.
And, you know, when we talk and thinkabout what kind of tools and resources
are needed for, you know, a pregnant womanor a new mother,
it's like, how come we don't talkmore about the tools and resources
that we need to carefor our aging family members?
(28:29):
You know,it feels like such a not a taboo topic,
but just something that we don't talkabout enough.
Right?
There's no
equivalent of the prenatal courses thatyou take to like, how do you navigate,
like how to show up for aging loved ones.
It's like you're navigating a whole worldthat nobody prepares you for.
Yeah.
And we're all going to go through it.
(28:50):
Yes. No.
You know, I mean.
Not everybody gets to the different stagesof of life, but it is just as common
as, you know, for people to transitionout of this life as it is for
people to transition into this life.
So why don't we learn more about it,right, and talk more about it?
You find out so many people go through itwithout sharing it.
(29:11):
Yeah, I've even talked about it on stage.
It's like how the tables turn andit feels like I'm raising my parents now.
I go to a classto learn how to change a diaper, but
I wish they had that for older loved one.
You know, nobody shows youhow to change a big diaper.
No, there's a lot of trial and error,but there it's right.
It's much needed to have that equivalentfor on the the later stage.
(29:33):
And then especiallyyou're dealing with someone.
Well so many peoplewho are still cognizant
of what life is about and have learnedall these lessons themselves.
And now they're in a place where,you know, they're
surprised by all of these thingsthat they need.
And, you know.
Well.
What am I going to do with this diaperor me?
Or I mean, it, it is true.
(29:54):
It'd be niceif there were as many instructions.
I wonder, though, if we don't honor thatas much, because for most of it, it ends.
And sadness.
And so it's, I think, hard for all of usto prepare for sadness,
and we're sort of more in denialabout that happening.
I don't know if if that was the casefor you, but.
(30:16):
I mean, it's the case for everybody.
I mean, sadness is, is is eminent,you know, but it's like
there are a lot of help in, you know,having good communication with your
with your person and communityand also self-reflection.
I mean, it's like to be able to landin a place where it's like
you challenge your own thoughts.
It's like it should come from a placeof a celebration of life.
It's what you're doing for Doctor Bail.
(30:38):
I mean, it's it's a celebration of lifeby remembering works.
And we should be challenged definitelyto look at it in a different way.
It's very hard.It's easier said than done.
I could sit here,
blab my mouth, but when you're in ayou're like, man, this is this is painful.
This is it's. Tough. It's tough.
So it's lonely.
I remember being very lonely and thinking,I don't, I don't know what tomorrow
(30:59):
is going to bring because I'mclearly seeing that each day is different.
And I've gotten to a placewhere I think this can't get any tougher.
And the next day would be a new challenge.
And I would get through that dayand I would have taken on that
new challenge when, the day before I saidI can't, you can't give me any more.
Right.
And it is really something.
And look how interesting that is.
It's like with you, you're like,I don't know
(31:21):
how I'm going to get through today.It feels very lonely.
I think that's the number one thingthat caregivers talk about.
And it's with caregiving at an early stageor later in life.
It's there's always this loneliness,
you know, it's like,and it doesn't have to be that way.
And it'salmost like the allegory of the cave.
You just see things a certain way.
But when you come out and some of this
is this blinding,when you get out of the cave
and you see this blindingkind of reality of like,
(31:42):
I think people want to support my effortsand they just didn't know.
So I mean, it's yeah, it's.
I was just going to saybasically the same thing.
It's like you put yourselfin this space and you don't.
You either don't want to ask for helpbecause you want to do it
all yourself, or you don't thinkother people would want to help.
Yeah, yeah.
And why do they want to come inand do this?
I'll just do it myself. And it's comicalif you think about it.
(32:04):
It's like I need helpor what do you need help with?
What?
Well, I don't know what, but I need help.
I don't know what it is, but.
Well, if you need help,if you know you need help.
You got that much? What?What do you need further?
I don't know, you know, and that'sokay too.
It's serious. But it it is funny.
It is.
It's like, that's the only wayyou can get through something like that,
you know, like,
how do you diffuse tensionthat can oftentimes be very happy to carry
(32:28):
with humor?
Yeah. Yeah.
I still wonder if one of the light bulb
moments, you know, that I experience
both through lossand now through birth, is
there is a focus on the entry into life,the birth of a baby.
And I like to say it's romanticizedbecause there's a cute baby, you know,
(32:48):
there's a beautiful baby.
And, you know, but really, the processof what a woman goes through to give
birth is not a pretty one. Right?
And so it's just romanticized
because it's like babies and cutenessand the beginning of a life.
And so when you thinkabout on the other side of life,
when you're helping someone transitionout of this life, it's also not pretty.
(33:11):
It's not pretty to watch. It's painful.
But ultimately, isn't
grief also a feeling that comes from love?
Right?
It's grief is, I think, a feeling
that so many people have a hard timeresponding to.
And that's maybe that'swhere the loneliness comes from, that
people don't know how to how to supportsomeone that's going through grief.
(33:32):
But when you look at grief reallyis it's a it's a feeling that is
base and rooted in love.
Yeah, right. Is hard to deny that.
Holding somebody's hand throughthat moment is
probably one of the biggest honorsthat somebody can go through.
And so what kind of tools and resourcesare there
to support someone through grief?
(33:54):
If we look at grief
with a lens of love, right, versusdoes this oh, this is a really sad thing.
I don't know how to handle it.
Yeah.
I supposethere are some resources out there,
but wouldn't it be niceif they could be marketed in a way
that there is available as the resourcesyou have when you're going through.
This. Pregnancy and childbirth? Yeah.
And that there shouldn't be shame aroundgrief.
No. Right.
(34:15):
Like some people, it's just like, oh,it just feels awkward to talk about.
I don't want to burden other peoplewith my grief.
Like there should, like,what have we de-stigmatize
the feeling of griefas something superhuman?
And your experiences love for that personthat you're missing, you know?
Yeah, it should be 100% okay.
And being able to notice that grief
(34:37):
should be something that you, as the griefwatcher, looks at and says, okay,
this person can use a little love,whatever that means.
Let me dig in.
And maybe that person says,I don't know, like you were saying, like,
I don't know what I need, but I need help.
But just to keep asking the questionsand hold the hand and be there.
But I think a lot of us can't, you know,that's stigmatized.
(34:58):
Grief might, you know, mean you.
You aren't strong, thatyou can't just keep on plugging ahead.
We're not supposed to feel stressed
or anxious or worried,and but that's all part of being human.
And I think you can experiencethose things and accept them in others.
(35:19):
When you come from this place of love,which again,
we just have to learnhow to how to start from love.
Yeah, absolutely.
So then you mentionedthat humor is a tool that you could use
in the caregiving process,
and it sounds like you've been ableto share that via your podcast maybe.
And these documentaries.
So like what does that meanor what kind of thing would be
(35:44):
funny and, and
create happiness for either the caregiveror those being taken care of.
How did that gel?
There's an unspoken rule in comedywhere it's like you're able to kind of
speak to the communitiesthat you're a part of your
your personal experiences,what you can bring on stage.
And I think because that was my livedexperience and, you know, I'm still in it,
(36:05):
there's a feeling of connectingwith people
who are going through the same thing,right?
When somebody goes to a comedy club,they're either relating to what's going on
with the comedian saying or they're drawnin, you know, it's storytelling.
So it's either I love storytelling,
I love comedy, I feel like comedyhas been my North star, and I've dedicated
my waking hours to to walkin that direction through storytelling.
(36:25):
So when I talked about caregiving,I found a community in AARP.
You know, it's like,you know, at the time when we did the
the documentary,they were working alongside Google, right?
And they did a big research project,and they wanted to see what it was
that caregivers needed time and laughter.
Right.
That's the two things that someone in, inthe midst of caregiving is going to need.
(36:49):
And that's when they created,an event called Care to laugh?
You know, caregivers and caregiverswere able to come down to a comedy
club, have dinner, watch a comedy show,and just just a break
to their day to dayand being able to do that.
When you talk about your experiencesat the time, like, for example,
like I had this experiencewhere I talked about
my mother gave me a call and she needed
(37:10):
there was a bunch of supplements thatshe would take and she gave me a call.
I need these vitamins and supplements.
You mind picking something up on the wayhome, a CVS or a Walgreens?
And I remember going in thereand one of the things that she needed
was this thingcalled, hair, nail skin, right?
That the doctor had told her to take. So.
So I go in there,the cashier was very nosy.
(37:30):
I mean, there's nobody
in the store at one in the morning,so they strike up a conversation.
So she kind of scans this hair nail,skin supplement, and she looks at it.
She looks at me.
She looks back. Down she goes.How long have you been taking these. For,
And I'm like.
You know.
Have your business, you know?
Sure. First off.
You know, it's for my mom.
(37:51):
She goes
Okay.
You know.
So it's these moments of like that
situation would not have happenedif I wasn't a caregiver.
And I had that, that open channel of like,hey can you pick this up for me.
They're funny little things.
I've even I look back to me in my 20sbuying diapers like, oh, nobody cares.
(38:12):
But you're so embarrassed to be seenwith this box of diapers.
And I used to go to CBSat one in the morning to buy them
because no one was there.
And you can buy little packs,kind of hide them.
And again, same cashier, she goes, youknow, I see you buy these all the time.
Who are they for?
And I was so embarrassed.I go, I was like, oh, they're for me.
I hate, you know, doing laundry.
So I just buy these, you know,
trying to diffuse the situation againwith humor as best as I can.
(38:35):
Yeah.
Not a knock against her, just,you know, trying to diffuse it.
And she goes, you know,they have men's sizes.
I said, no, I like the women's sizes.
They'rethey're a little more snug on me. But
these moments
may seem may seem not fun in the moment.
You know, you're like, oh, I'mso embarrassed that they're asking me why.
You know, ultimately, humor servesas my art form.
(38:56):
I take those stories to the stageand I can tell it to
a roomful of caregivers and caregivers,you know, like.
And they'll laughbecause they'll have a version of that.
They will.
And that'show those tentacles of connection
are formed is like,I get what you're saying.
Yeah.
And that that joke will resonatemore in a roomful of caregivers,
or it might not resonatein a, in a, in a comedy club,
(39:20):
but it might resonate with one personthat goes, brother, I know.
Where you're going,I got that. I'm not alone. Yeah.
But I think it even
would resonate with people who are notcaregivers, are being cared for,
and that they could imagine themselvesin that position someday.
And then when they're they'll, they'll bethey'll remember that and think.
Remember, bring a giggle when there might.
(39:41):
Did doctor
Bill have anything around like painand time like like humor or anything
like that, where it's like as it connectsbecause there's a level of love there.
I think where you're ableto look back with love and go mad.
Yeah, to some degree.
I mean, I think he was very thoughtfulabout his life experiences
and how as an older person,he could look back
(40:02):
and see how directed he was because of,
you know, taking this road to the leftor that road to the right,
and then turning some of the misstepsinto humorous experiences.
They weren't really missteps.
I mean, they still led him to be
where he ended up beingand gave him the life experience he had.
(40:24):
So, you know, nothing is truly a misstep.
It's just an opportunityto look at something in a new way.
I was I would say, yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Being able to look at iton a different lens.
Yeah. It's funny.
So you if you could justtake the opportunity to stop like
coming down on yourself and say, okay,
why did I do this or why am I hereand what can I do with it?
(40:46):
Where can I gowith this thing that I just experienced?
I think that this comedy businessis so interesting,
because I do think that so many of usthink we're alone in an experience.
And when you hear somebody on the stagetalk about some simple thing
that happensin, let's say, in your life, and you go,
(41:08):
oh, I never thought of that
as being funny or I never thought of thathappening to anybody else.
And then everybody in the audienceis doing the same thing.
It's like, Yeah.
And you can kind of take a sigh of relief
and you feel like you're partof a community.
Whereas before you were like this alien,you know, wandering out in space
on your own.
Yeah.
Thinking you're the only one who'sgot to buy diapers for their elderly mom.
(41:31):
Yeah. So thank you for that.
That's a big deal to kind of help usfigure out a way to feel less alone.
I think it definitely is a connector.
It brings people together, I think.
I mean,there's more comedy clubs than ever.
Why are people going to a comedy clubso much?
Or theaters?
You look at so many great comedianswho are touring and everyone is
(41:51):
like has their own style of comedyand why are they going to this thing?
It's almost like,
church like, you know, and it's likethey're looking for connection.
They're looking for a moment of,of, of laughter to get,
you know, to get their mind offof their daily problems, possibly.
And we go so far out of our way to go.
You know. Yeah.
It's it's not cheap to kind of bring itfull circle to what we're talking about.
(42:12):
It's it's all love,you know, it's like I want to go share
Laughs and I'm going to bring somebodyI care about you know and
share this laugh with
or I'm going to go aloneout of an act of love for myself.
It's like I deserve to laugh.
Yeah I need to laugh.
So I think we all need to laugh.
It's really interesting now that you saythat, how many different places
(42:34):
you can go to find comedy these days.
It's just it's like propelling itself.
It's great.
Yeah.
It's a boom online.
It's a boom in live performances.
And also as a as a spectator.
You know it's really interestingand fascinating to watch.
Sort of the energy that happens in a roomand that every room is different.
(42:54):
You know I, I've seen his practicehis material.
And oftentimes, you know,I might be hearing the same material
in different shows, but it has differenteffects in different people.
And so the makeup of who'ssitting in the audience, it really becomes
this exchange of energybetween who's onstage and who's there.
(43:15):
And so it's really cool to watch,you know,
his shoes have a very disciplined approachto writing.
And, you know,
people think that you just get upand you're funny and you say funny things.
There's actually a lot of disciplinethat goes into crafting a story
and practicingand exchanging that energy in real time
with the people who are there,because the audience is going to change
(43:37):
for every show, and that energy is goingto be dictated by who's in the audience.
Yeah, that's pretty amazing.
Yeah.
Comedy's so, so interesting that even witheverything you just said of like,
preparation, years of work, you know, it'slike I've done it for a while.
I prepare on a daily, I perform regularly,
but all those things can be rendereduseless because there is so many variables
(43:58):
to control.You can't control all of them. No.
You're just going to have good nightsand bad nights,
and you might have two bad nightsand one night, you know.
Could you do multiple shows?
Kirk Fox is a comedianwho I love his work.
He he says it jokingly,
but there is so much truth to his likelike breathe out love.
You know, it's likeit's like they just want to be loved.
Man is like sometimes a heckler islike they're yelling or being disruptive
in a certain way.
(44:18):
Sometimes they don't even knowthey're doing that.
They think they're helping or they thinkthey're they're meeting in a good way,
or sometimes they're they're just drunkor any number of things.
He's like, but he's like,if you could just handle that with love.
And I've always remember that,that is that.
He's told me that sometimesyou have to resort to what I call like
a verbal ass weapon to this heckler,because that's maybe what it needs.
(44:40):
But if you do it, what's love?It's like, it's not going to be.
You hope it's not taken the wrong way.
I mean,I don't know how it's received, but
there has to be a level of crowd controlthat it's like, all right,
you know,it's like you can have back and forth.
All right.
We're good.
Okay, I'm going to go back to the showbecause everyone around you
paid full price and that,and they hate to listen to you.
So do.
But you do it with love.
And she's seen me kind of like,be successful with it and and oftentimes
(45:03):
not successful with it.But that's the beauty of it.
That's what you're like.
You're like, okay,I think I learned something from this
and I can go back and do it again.
But that must be part of what keeps this,this journey interesting for you,
in that you could be working the same setfor a few nights, a few weeks,
but every audience is going to make thatset different.
(45:24):
Yeah, oftentimes
these feelings of impostersyndrome might arise because you're like,
I know I've done this.
Well before, but I can't do it here.
And I'm falling into a patternnot being able to get to an audience.
But comedy is trial and error.
Actually,you had a talk about imposter syndrome
that you recorded was aroundimposter syndrome, and I remember that.
(45:45):
That helped me a lot
because I was able to look at thatand be like, okay, sometimes
we want to control so many variables
and we induce our own levelof like imposter syndrome.
Yeah.
I mean,I think the the concept of imposter
syndrome is sort of being somewherethat you don't feel deserving of, right?
And so whether you're on stageor you're in a position of power at work
(46:11):
or, you know,and there's all these variables
that tell you, like, you're not funnyenough or you're not smart enough.
And even just the concept of impostersyndrome, I believe, is something
that has been imposed on people,I think, to add to insecurities.
And many of those insecuritiesare built around systemic failures, right?
(46:31):
To have people not be able to succeed.
But I think ultimately, you know,when you remind yourself
that what you bring to the table,whether it's to a stage or to a meeting
room or to a business you know, is uniquebecause of your own lived experiences.
(46:52):
Right? And you stand on that.
I think that's ultimatelywhat is the the best form of engagement
and having a two way conversationwith someone. Right.
You know, I believe that this isboth in comedy and in career is the best.
Comedians are not ones that just standon a microphone and speak one way,
but it's the peoplewho are able to have that dialog.
(47:14):
But to read the to.
Read the room, to understandthat a heckler is maybe just a person
that's having a tough dayor just having to have fun or
and you, you look at this as athis is a two way street.
We're both in this together. Right?
I think it it's a good reminder, you know,when when you step into a meeting
or you know, something that you findintimidating and to say, actually,
(47:37):
like, I'm not alone in this, my livedexperience has brought me to this room.
And so what I have to say matters.
And also,I'm not the only one talking here.
I should also listen.
And it helps make itless heavy and less intimidating.
Yeah, that's athat's a great thing to keep in mind.
I agree with. Yeah. Yeah.
What about like has Doctor Bail,has he done any work around that.
(48:00):
Like specifically. Where.
Yeah he I think he believes
that many of us are most of the timeimposters in our own lives.
And that we are doingwhat we need to survive
and not recognizing that we're not doingwhat we are meant to be doing.
We're doing those thingsthat unconsciously, we've been told
(48:22):
we need to do to support the trauma
that we've carried, thatwe don't know how to let go of.
We we've been toldunconsciously, most likely, that,
you know, you're not really very lovable.
And so you put yourself in positionswhere, you know,
you're not really very lovable.
(48:43):
And so you, you, you're pretending to bethis thing that you're not.
And you come from a placeof not being very lovable.
You'rewhat does that mean? You're you're shy.
You don't feel like you deservea place at the table.
Or there's this person that seems to be
wantingto get to know you in a romantic way.
And you're like,well, I'm not really very lovable.
(49:05):
So I'm going to figure outhow to undo this.
And and even when it comes to career,you know, I am going to be an imposter.
My I learned from my grandfatherand my mom
that the only path for me was law school.
And oh, that must be what I want to do.
But it doesn't resonate.
It doesn't sit and but you're an imposter.
(49:27):
You're going to law school when reallyyou wanted to be the camera person
at the circus on Saturdaysand, you know, mind the zoo.
The rest of the week,
and you can't do thatbecause there's shame to it.
Or you might not be able to bein this comfort zone
that you created for yourself,so that you could exist
without all this love, or with being ableto choose your own path.
(49:51):
You geared yourself.
You fashioned yourself to be okay
in the presence of others,to not disturb the status quo.
Yeah.
I mean, and that's something that I've,I've seen a lot in, especially in work.
I'm trying to advance, you know,representation, diversity and inclusion.
(50:11):
As of late I've been seeing moreof a pushback on that concept.
Right.
And to say,is it imposter syndrome or is it
that some odds have been stacked against
your success?
Right.
Like how do you differentiate to say,oh, I have imposter syndrome.
And this is something that I have to workon, and yet it adds another thing
(50:34):
that you have to worryabout to push through or to say, actually,
it's an imposter syndrome,is that I don't have proper guidance or
I don't have the right leadership, right?
Or I don't have the tools that I needfor me to be successful in this position
or my path to get to this position
was very different to this other peer
(50:57):
who got to this positionthrough different resources.
Being aware ofthat is just as important, right?
Because then you start to understandwhat you need to ask for.
So why do I put this on myself?
Why do it?
Why am I feeling this imposter syndrome?
What does that mean for me?
What is uncomfortable about this?Why am I here?
(51:17):
What am I doing here?
What do these people mean to me?Are they helping me?
Do they see that this is a back and forththat we're having these conversations?
Wait,maybe I don't even really want to be here.
I mean, maybe I'm.
I'm really an imposter. Yeah.
So no.
So. But I did want to talk to youabout what
you're doing in the world of activism.
And I know you'reprobably taking a little break here with.
(51:40):
So, yeah. A little bit of maternity.
Maternity leave. So.
But what what led you to that?
And what does activism meanfor you in the work that you do?
Or 15 years ago,I started down the path of advocacy.
You know, it can have different namesadvocacy, social impact, activism.
Initiallymy work started with a nonprofit,
(52:00):
and so I, you know, startedmy expertise was marketing.
And so doing marketing and social mediaand content for nonprofits.
Later that evolved into working acrossdifferent sectors.
So for a consulting agencywhere a lot of my clients were nonprofits
or campaigns,sometimes political campaigns.
So all of these groupsthat you were supporting with your work
(52:24):
and your knowledgewere advocating for something.
Yes. Yes.
So social issues,mission driven organizations,
that advocate on a variety of, of topics.
Ultimately, a lot of my work is focused
in, in advancing or advocating for values,
(52:44):
you know, shared values, caringfor immigration or support for homeless
homelessness or, or, preventing,you know, gun violence in our country.
And what would an example of your workbe, say, toward the endeavor
of advocating for immigration?
I've worked with nonprofitsthat do work in immigration, and
(53:07):
my hard skill setis marketing and communications.
And so I often work with my clientsin helping think strategically about
how to come up with helpful, informationto share,
right, to educate peoplearound the challenges that immigrants
face or, you know, how to how to shapemore narratives and understanding,
(53:31):
Is that informationfor the immigrants themselves
and those receiving the immigrantsas the new country or town or city?
Yeah, it could be both in my case,because marketing is sort
of the a lot of the foundation of the workthat I've done.
You think of itas how do you reach people with messaging,
right, or content,you know, nowadays with social media.
(53:53):
And so it'show do you tell stories to everyday people
who are going about their everyday lifeto care about this one issue?
Right.
Well, you're ultimately reaching
people who are being saturatedwith messages all the time.
Of all sorts of.
All sorts.
That nonprofit is also in competitionwith the woman who's
(54:15):
trying to sell white t shirts.
Right.
You have to think abouthow do you educate people
on facts,you know, on what what is the context?
Look like?
How does it relate to you?
Why should you care about this?
And so it's what we like to callsort of like
movement building or sort of shaping,
shaping culture through through content,through information.
(54:38):
And so a lot of, a lot of this becomes,
you know, a back and forth and buildingrelationships, you know, with people
and getting them to care about different,different missions, different values.
Well, I think that's extreme importanceright now.
It's so crucial.
And, you know, we need to dothe same thing here with our podcast.
(55:00):
We're not selling anything,and we don't want you
to come and pay us moneyto hear our message.
We just want the most important thing,
which is love, to be known across
communities, you know,starting with each individual and then,
you know, carrying it forwardwhere we lift each other up and it's
(55:23):
amazing to meto think that we we give this out to
anyone, anyone, which is fantastic.
And, you know, hope thatsome people respond and understand
how precious that message is,which I guess is the case for anybody
who's, you know, trying to do something
(55:45):
to some degree of success on social media.
Yeah, I'm still learningwhat it's all about.
Yeah. It's ever evolving, you know.
And that'sthat's the challenge too, that, you know,
many organizationsand nonprofits in particular oftentimes
don't have the resourcesor the budgets to keep up.
Yeah, with their competitors.
(56:06):
You know, when you're scrolling onwhether it's Instagram or TikTok,
you know, your your little videothat you put together to advocate for
this one thing is competingwith this influencer who has very.
Different resources than you do. Yeah.
And so then, then thethe challenge there becomes,
how do you make sure that what you put outthere is a substance and,
(56:28):
and that it is something that capturespeople's attention?
You know, because the, the resourcesare very limited for many organizations.
Well, thank you for doing that.
I love that you have found a wayto focus on
helping those people who are interestedin helping the rest of us.
Yeah.
And even, like a the other thing,too, is, like you, I've come to learn that
(56:51):
your, your work revolves aroundeducating the person
that wants to get the message outthere is like to follow the,
the right and proper metricsbecause I think where you know, everyone
wants, say, views or this kind of thing,but it's like depending on what
the project is, is like
there are certain metricsthat you should value over others.
And then sometimes
(57:12):
you don't want the most views,you want the most people
to kind of interactand have a conversation about.
So I think that's alsokind of very important to to kind of
dispel certain things and kind of shedthe onion layers
to find the levelthat's pertinent to the message.
Or yes, it's romantic enough to say,I've got 6,000,000 million views.
(57:33):
But of what you know, I've learned thatseen her work and I'm like,
oh, it'snot the thing that we're all chasing.
I mean, sure it is, in a way,
but at the same time it's kind of like,oh, there's something at a deeper level,
just like anything elseor something of a deeper level.
You know, maybe you want to getto the kernel of it, the kernel.
Exactly.
And I think in today's world, it's so easyto get caught up in the rat race of
(57:54):
I got to pursue the viewsand the followers
and it becomes really transactional.
It does.
In order for people to be strategicwith their resources, it's helpful
to understand who is it that you'retrying to reach and for what.
Right, right.
You know, having very clearunderstanding of your goals.
Right.
And because it's very commonas a marketer to hear, like,
(58:16):
we want to reach everyone.
Okay, who's your targetaudience and everyone?
Okay. Let's let's get deeper.
When you do reach for everyone,what do you
what do you want them to take away
from the three seconds, if that, thatthey'll look at your message?
What is that thingthat you want them to remember.
And so oftentimesit's really just guiding, guiding
(58:36):
and helping each other.
Look at the North Starlike what is the ultimate purpose.
You know, forget what we call it. Yeah.
But let's let's get back to.
The what are you doing that's important.
And how are you going to get yourself
to a place where you can helpthese people that need the assistance?
And how do youand how do you measure that impact?
(58:58):
How do you measure that you'rebeing successful in doing that?
For you to knowthat you're being successful,
know you have to be clear in what whatthat mission is.
Yeah.
So sometimes havingthose conversations is helpful, right?
Is just getting out of
today's noise and getting away
from the controversial debate is saying,okay, let's get back to the basics.
(59:21):
What is it that we're trying to do?
Because hopefully it isjust today's noise.
Yeah.
And tomorrowis going to be a different noise.
Well thank you both.
I could talk to youfor another couple of hours,
but I think I've taken upenough of your time.
It was very swagger.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for having so fun.
Very such a great time. Oh, good.
(59:41):
And and do either of youhave a social media
presence or websitethat you'd like to share with us?
Sure. You can go to my website.
Just echo.comfor upcoming shows and events
and yeah,I post videos and upcoming tour dates.
They're great. Yeah.
And my consulting websiteis let those mediocre.
So yeah, check us out and
(01:00:04):
thank you so much also for the workthat you do through this podcast.
Oh that's nice.
This is such a wonderful conversation.
You know,
when when you reached out and shared whatthis was about, immediately were like,
this is such a cool opportunityfor both of us to do this together.
And, you know, to talk about our work,but also just how we do it.
Yeah.
You know, as a as a coupleand in partnership
(01:00:26):
together, you know, we are really honoredand flattered that you thought of us.
And that is here. Well, such a pleasure.
And you two both are totally all aboutlove. So.
Yeah. Yeah.
Here we go.
Thank you for watching.
And please get in touch with us
with any questions or comments,and we will see you next time.
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