July 23, 2025 • 35 mins
We've forgotten how to simply enjoy activities without turning them into a side hustle or productivity metric. In this heartfelt conversation with licensed therapist and "resident crafter" Kaylee Finley, we explore how creative hobbies provide essential nourishment for our mental health and authentic self-expression.
Kaylee shares a profound perspective on why creative pursuits matter beyond their output: "When we engage in fiber arts, we're participating in historic traditions tens of thousands of years old. You're not only making art for your soul and future generations, you're embodying the work of your ancestors." This connection to past, present and future through creativity helps anchor our identity beyond professional roles or relationships.
The discussion delves into why many adults resist playful activities despite their therapeutic benefits. Our achievement-oriented culture conditions us to feel guilty about "unproductive" time, leading to a disconnection from our playful inner child. Even in therapy settings, clients often resist playful regulation techniques until experiencing their effectiveness firsthand. Kaylee emphasizes that creative flow states naturally process emotions our conscious mind might avoid, making hobbies powerful tools for emotional regulation.
For those feeling disconnected from creativity, Kaylee suggests starting with activities you enjoyed as a child—whether coloring, friendship bracelets, or finger painting. The key is approaching these activities with curiosity rather than perfectionism. As she reminds us through her own baking mishaps, even experienced crafters face frustration, but working through these moments teaches valuable life lessons about persistence and acceptance.
Ready to reclaim your right to creative joy? Try reconnecting with a childhood hobby this week and give yourself permission to make a mess without worrying about the cleanup. Your mental health will thank you.
If you would like to learn more about Kaylee and the work she does visit her at: www.risetherapycenter.com/kaylee
You can also find her on IG @brighterskiescounseling
Thank you for tuning into And Still WE Rise! If you would like to learn more about me or the work our practice is doing, feel free to follow us on Instagram at:
@atltherapygirl and @risetherapycenter
Or check us out at www.risetherapycenter.com
Disclaimer: And Still We Rise is meant to provide perspective and meaningful conversations around mental health topics. It is not meant to provide specific therapeutic advise to individuals. If anything in these podcasts resonates, ASWR recommends consulting with your individual therapist or seeking a referral from your primary care physician.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to, and Still we Rise.
I am your host, christineSeidel, and today we have
licensed therapist Kaylee Finleyto talk about hobbies.
Welcome, kaylee.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Thank you, I'm so excited.
This is one of my favoritethings to talk about because
it's so important to who I am inmy life, both in the counseling
office and outside, so I'mexcited to talk about this.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, I am beyond excited to have you here.
And for those of you that don'tknow, kaylee is a therapist at
Rise Therapy Center and she isour not only our resident
crafter, but resident baker.
Not even a competition there.
She holds that title.
Nobody meets with it.
So she is the perfect person tocome today and kind of share
(00:49):
you know, not only herexperience with the creatives,
but also just how that helpstherapeutically and in our
self-care.
So before we get started, I'dlove to read a little bio about
Kaylee, and I'll add this in ourdescription as well.
Kaylee is an associateprofessional counselor and
self-proclaimed craftingenthusiast.
Both counseling and craftinghave been an integral part of
(01:12):
her life and she has found eachone benefits the other.
Kaylee works with children,teens and adults in her
counseling and always makes apoint to check in with them
about what they do for fun, asthis is such an overlooked part
of mental health, wellness, suchgood stuff and as a witness to
her work, I can tell you herclients definitely get to have
(01:32):
some fun throughout theirsessions.
So, yeah, well, let's get to it.
So, like hobbies I mean that's,that covers a whole spectrum of
things.
So tell me you know, how arehobbies so useful in shaping our
sense of identity and how wefeel about ourselves and the
(01:53):
emotional processing yeah, Imean.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So, like, when we talk about hobbies, there's
people who like break it downinto like the different types of
hobbies of like you need ahobby for your like physical
health, for like your creativeself, to like make money, which
I don't necessarily agree withthat, but we can go into that
later.
But, um, you know, for me Ijust kind of think of hobbies as
something you do that just forthe sake of bringing you joy.
(02:19):
It's not something that shouldbe pressured, it's something
that should just be pureenjoyment and like creativity
based, or like just somethingthat should be pressured.
It's something that should justbe pure enjoyment and like
creativity based, or like justsomething that you do for
yourself, without expectation.
And I think that's so important, because we have so many things
(02:39):
that are expected of us in ourday-to-day life, right, and we
have to do those things.
But when we pour all of ouridentity into these, into either
our work or even ourrelationships with other people,
we can lose who we are outsideof just serving someone else.
Um, and I think hobbies arereally good because it gets you
(03:02):
back to like your sense ofindividuality, because my, even
if I'm just following like acrochet pattern that someone
else wrote.
If I do it and if my frienddoes it, they're going to be a
little different, just becausewe might hold our yarn tension a
little different, so the sizemight be a little different, or
(03:23):
I mess up in some way that shedoesn't, or she messes up in
some way I do or I don't.
But that is what makes itunique, because only you can
make the thing, only you can dothat hobby in the way that
you're going to do it such avery important point to make is
(03:48):
it's really like an authenticexpression of self.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
no matter how you do it or how you try to do it, it
is going to come out as like you, in whatever way that is, and
it's going to be unique anddifferent and from somebody else
who may be doing the exact samething.
So you know how does how dohobbies help us reconnect with
ourselves?
You know why are they importantin that aspect?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
yeah.
So I think you know, obviouslywe can't ever exist in a vacuum,
right?
And hobbies are the same oflike.
There will always be otherpeople who do the same hobby or
have done it.
And for me, I think the waythat hobbies like help us
connect with ourselves isthrough the fact that it's
(04:31):
connecting with other people too, in a way.
And there's like this quote Ifound years ago that really
struck me when we engage in thisis talking specifically about
fiber arts, but I think it canbe applied to a lot of different
hobbies.
When we engage in fiber arts,we are creating something, but
we're also participating inhistoric traditions tens of
(04:51):
thousands of years old.
You are not only making art foryour soul and for future
generations, you are embodyingthe work of your ancestors.
So it's this way of combining,like the past, present and
future, which we know are allthings that shape who we are,
(05:12):
and it's a way to feel connected.
And through those connectionswith you know ancestors or
future generations, we shape whowe are too.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
we shape who we are too.
Yeah, wow, I mean, I think thatthat's, that's even something
that, like I haven't eventhought about is, like you know
especially talking about thatquote from the fiber arts that
so many of these hobbies havebeen things that generations
whether they're our ancestors orfrom a cultural perspective
(05:44):
have done.
That when we're doing it in themoment, it's almost like we're
participating in that, likecollective of people that are
present in that moment and thenwill be present with others in
the future when they do that too, which I think, is something
that's lost when we'reconstantly in this, you know,
being productive, doing thingsthat benefit us.
(06:06):
There's really no connection tothe here and now, which actually
connects us to those that haveand those that will, and I think
that's a really beautiful thingto be conscious of in so many
ways.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, and that's for me a big part of my story and
how I got started like withcrafting of um, back when I was
in like elementary school and mygrandmother passed away, my
aunt gave me her knittingneedles and obviously in
elementary school I didn't Iwasn't into that yet or anything
but uh, and it took a few yearsfor me to get into it, but just
(06:45):
like having that traditionpassed down, and eventually I
used specifically andintentionally I used her needles
to create a baby blanket for myfirst nephew, and so it was a
really beautiful way of justlike even if only I ever knew
that I did that.
I mean, I told my sister andobviously I'm saying it now, but
(07:07):
even if only I had known thatthat was like a significant like
way of connecting, like thegenerations.
And you know, when we get lostin this like productivity state,
we are losing sight of the pastand the future, and so it's
almost like through doing thesehobbies and engaging in the
(07:29):
present, we're engaging in abigger picture too.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Wow.
And so it's almost like that inand of itself kind of removes
the need for it to be productive, because we're really
connecting with somethinggreater than productivity or
greater than you know makingmoney off of it for it.
Being for something, it's otherthan just.
It means more of just likebeing with it.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, and I think that's been a really interesting
thing of you know this balancebetween what is your hobby
versus what is a like job.
And there are people who like,when I show them my work I do,
their first reaction is like youcould sell this and like it's
so well-intentioned and I knowit's a compliment, but it also
(08:21):
is like but that's not thepurpose, Because it's just.
Even if I were to make thingsonly for myself, if someone were
a wonderful artist but they hidtheir notebooks away and didn't
let anyone see them, that'sokay.
Yeah, it can be just for youand like I choose with my crafts
(08:45):
and stuff.
It's usually stuff I make forother people or you know,
because I know these people willvalue it and it's a way I show
love and affection and pourmyself into something and that's
a testament to like the love Ihave in those relationships.
(09:05):
But even if someone is tocreate and they never tell
anyone about that hobby, that'sokay.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, and I think that that brings up another
question.
So, like when you have a clientwho maybe is, like, really into
drawing, let's say, forinstance, but doesn't want to
share it with people, like, whatbenefit does that client get to
still participating in thathobby, doing it regularly?
Like, what is the therapeuticor benefit to the nervous system
(09:39):
or the emotional processing?
What do hobbies or creativeoutlets do for us in our
self-work or in our therapeuticwork?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, I think it gives us, like, a sense of
purpose and identity and it also, like, builds our self-esteem
of like.
If this is something we learn todo, like so many of these
things, it takes time to learnhow to do them and it's usually
at least in my experience tearsand frustration and tearing up a
paper, ripping things out, andyou know, that alone teaches us
(10:12):
so much about ourselves.
But it's also that you know ourfeelings are going to come out
when they're going to come outright.
And if you're, if someonedoesn't want to show anyone that
but they're drawing and they'regetting super frustrated, but
(10:32):
it's something they've done athousand times, maybe that
frustration is about somethingelse, right, and it's going to,
it's going to come out right.
And so, just engaging in thosepractices that allow us to
connect to ourselves in themoment, that is the prime time
for our feelings to be like, hey, I'm here, I need to be seen,
(10:57):
and if you're going to try tolike, mindlessly engage in
something, yeah, but it'screative and it's regulating us,
those feelings are going tocome up right, and so it can be
a tool for our body to like,talk to us.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I think that's like spot on.
It's like, I think, like whenyou're crocheting or when
somebody goes into drawing orgoes into painting, you know
they get into that for more thanfive, 10 minutes, right, like
those five or 10 minutes, maybea lot of chatter, it might be a
lot of like things from the day,that's there.
But then when you get into thatflow of the looping and the
(11:44):
hooking or the strokes or thedrawing, all of a sudden that's
like a beautiful form ofmeditation where you're no
longer kind of looping throughthe thoughts and the feelings of
the day and they can come andthey can go.
And I think that's somethingthat we don't, you know, when
we're in, for our bodies to bestill for that processing, for,
(12:14):
for that settling of of thenervous system, to get to a
place of flow which I thinkcreative outlets, hobbies,
gardening, all of those thingsultimately put you into flow and
your nervous system is able toprocess them in such an
appropriate way, versus fightingthem throughout the day or even
(12:35):
fighting them as you start toget into your hobby or starting
to get into your project.
You know, like how many timesare we like um, I really don't
want to do this today.
It was awful yesterday.
I know I experienced that, thatwith my you know daughter this
week.
I'm just like this is so hard,but like the tenacity of moving
through that difficulty too issuch a lesson.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So it is it is, and I think that's like one of those
benefits of where we can bothfind this balance of.
You know, we don't have to begood at what we do and, like I
cannot draw to save my life,right, like I I use it as a joke
with clients, especially liketeens, who I talked to about
(13:19):
like not being good at somethingor just like when we have to
like accept our limits or youknow, maybe if I really
challenged myself and reallyspent the time, I could get
better at drawing.
But it's not a priority for meand that's okay.
So I'll even jokingly be like,you know, let me draw this bird
and like, am I good at this?
(13:41):
Like no, that's okay, I canlaugh at that, right, yeah, but
if I enjoy doing little doodlessometimes and they're awful,
okay, but I enjoy it, right, andthat's okay.
And I think that's what hobbiescan teach us so much, and
especially for, like, our innerchild, where we're not good at
(14:01):
something right away, or like ifit doesn't feel like something
we can show off to someone elseand get praise, it doesn't.
It hurts.
But why does it hurt, right?
Why does it hurt when it makesus happy, like if we're having
fun in that moment?
Why do we step back and saythis isn't good and it hurts us?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, I think you know, as an inner child
therapist that being my you knowmodality and philosophy I think
it's a great way to come backto that younger part, to hear
what is the story that's kind ofplaying out in something that
should be, you know, just funand it should be innocent and it
(14:46):
should be.
And so what is that in ourdialogue that's coming out?
That maybe not, maybe I mean, Iknow it's a hundred percent is
but maybe playing out in otherareas of your life, and so I
think that that's also abeautiful place to kind of
reclaim your inner child andfind places and spaces to to
speak kindness around, like howthat part of you shows up in the
(15:10):
world.
Seek kindness around, like howthat part of you shows up in the
world, especially around thingsthat just get to be fun and
nourishing for you and notnecessarily productive.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, and you know, I think that's something that the
world is learning a lot more,and we were talking about this
briefly before this.
We've started recording of.
Like COVID was, of course,awful in so many ways, but we
were stuck at home and peoplestarted to realize like I don't
know what to do with myself whenI have true downtime and when
(15:42):
I'm just like alone with myself,Because we never really let
ourselves be alone with ourselfand I know that's something I
struggle with too of even whenI'm knitting or crocheting or
baking, I want to have a podcaston, I want to have the TV on
and like that's okay sometimes,but you also need to be able to
sit with yourself.
(16:03):
But my point being, like COVIDmade us sit with ourselves so
much and we realized that somany people realize like if I'm
not at work or if I'm not outserving someone else, I don't
know what to do with myself.
That's where people startedbaking sourdough and like
(16:23):
started crocheting, became a bigthing I saw a lot of and
because people realize like, oh,I don't have an identity
outside of work wow that, thatjust hit so hard.
Right?
Because, like, even when I likeintroduce myself to people,
(16:46):
it's like if someone asked melike who's Kaylee?
I will say I'm a therapistbecause and I love that that's
been my calling for since I wasin middle school but I'm also
that is not also only who I am.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, and you know that's something that you know
the listeners or the viewersdon't know.
We were actually at aconference all together a few
weeks ago and you know,something I became very
conscious of is like us spendingtime outside of work.
You know, we found all theseways to reconnect but I found
myself still talking so muchabout therapeutic perspectives
(17:25):
and you know, like of coursewe're at a conference of a bunch
of therapists that we're allanalyzing each other.
You know, like they gave andshared, like on our group chat,
when we came back, I was like Ineed a hobby, like it's so hard
for me to step out of even beingin fun and connecting, still
having this narrative of what Ido.
(17:46):
And that was very eyeopening.
And I went with my daughterthis this past week to Michael's
and we were walking up and downthe aisles because she wanted
to start crocheting, which waspart of our tears this week.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
But I've been there.
Yeah, I've been there.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
And I was walking up and down the hall, the aisles,
and I was having a really hardtime trying to figure out what I
would want to do, like what Iwould like to do just to, like
you know, go into a creativespace, color, paint, whatever it
(18:25):
was.
And it was that experience atthe conference and that
experience with her at Michael'sthat I realized I have got to
find a time and a space that Ireally do step back into, not
doing or producing or serving orgiving, and just be with myself
through the creative arts orplay or whatever.
Yeah, it just it really.
(18:47):
It shocked me me, because itprobably is something that comes
from a place of I feel guiltyif I do that.
So why do people feel guiltytaking time to indulge in
hobbies and spend time curatinghobbies for themselves?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, I think we, our society, just values like
productivity so much and justlike the ways like you make
money right, and I think thatgoes back to like when I show
people things, it's oh, like youcould sell that, it's like okay
, I could, but also that maytake the joy out of it.
And so I think I think we'vegotten into this idea that, um,
(19:28):
there was this movement of likeself-care isn't selfish, right,
or like doing something foryourself isn't selfish, and I
think that was really liketalked about.
But I don't know if people havereally internalized that Like.
And it's hard to when thesociety we live in like doesn't
the nine to five life doesn'treally fuel space, because
(19:50):
people come home so mentallydrained and have all these other
responsibilities that you know,saying no to doing something
else, or well, I could be usingmy time to read like do
something that's productive,that I can show for my like
(20:11):
growth and value.
Um, but we don't have to beproductive to be valuable and oh
, wow, like we can just be, andthat's so uncomfortable because
we want to prove ourselves.
Yeah, I think that's that's thebig thing.
Because we want to proveourselves.
Yeah, I think that's the bigthing and we want to prove
(20:35):
ourselves.
And one way we prove ourselvesin this world is like, how do I
make money?
Like how much money can I make?
How can I contribute to?
Like everything else, but howdo you contribute to yourself?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
And I think that goes back to.
You know, we had a podcast afew episodes ago that talked
about achievement culture, and Iand I think that you know
really what that boils down tois, what do I have to show for
what I've been investing timeinto?
And I think that, for hobbies,that, in and of itself, I think
that's why people struggle.
(21:08):
Sometimes they're like, oh, Ireally love doing this, I'm
really good at this hobby, Ishould sell it or I should show
it to people, because we'restill looking for that external
validation that we're valuable.
But, like you just said, wedon't have to be productive to
have value in this world, and soI think that's such a difficult
(21:29):
threshold for our culture tocross over, because we've been
kind of conditioned sincechildhood to be productive.
And even I know, when I workwith adults and I'm, you know,
really trying to help them withways to regulate their nervous
system, all of these likestrategies we can use for
(21:52):
nervous system regulation.
But I have a whole set ofplayful ones.
Yeah, playful that they'reusually like no, like it doesn't
seem big right, like it's gonna.
It's gonna regulate the nervoussystem.
Sometimes those even more sothan than the other ones.
But when they see the playfulones, there's automatically this
feeling like those aren't goingto work.
Interestingly enough, themajority of them come back and
say, actually I love those,those were so fun, I prefer
(22:15):
those.
But there's just somethingabout being in a place of like
play that you'll like isn'tgoing to be helpful or
productive, even when we'rewanting to like, regulate and
calm our nervous system.
So it's interesting our ouraversion to it because of the
conditioning of achievement andproductivity.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, and I think so much of it, yeah, I think, goes
back to that and goes back tothat like achievement culture
being taught early on and alsothat, like you know, for so many
of us who have childhood woundswhere we were taught, taught we
had to grow up faster.
So even in childhood wecouldn't fully connect with
(22:57):
being a child, and so now as anadult, that childhood state
wasn't safe.
So we don't want to go intothose playful states because
that also wasn't safe.
But actually what we can do andof course you know this is
reparent ourself and reclaimthat childhood part and let it
(23:17):
have the experience we deserveto have as children that we
didn't get to have.
And so so, yeah, for Letyourself be a child and finger
paint get messy.
Like you know, I feel like somuch of it is when I see kids
even and we're doing glitter orall that they get concerned
(23:41):
about cleaning it up.
No, you get to be messy in here, that's okay, that's so fun.
Isn't it fun to go jump in amud puddle and get messy, right,
like that's what our innerchild wants.
But we're even taught as kidslike to be concerned about the.
What am I looking for?
(24:05):
Sorry, my word lost me.
The like, like consequences,the consequence or like the
adult impact or inconvenienceyeah there it is, yeah, I think.
Yeah, it's inconvenient for toclean up stuff, okay, so yeah
(24:25):
right, so so we clean up that,that's fine, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
I'd rather have take my 10 minutes between sessions
to be cleaning up glitter andlike letting the kids be messy
than being like no, as an adultit makes me uncomfortable or
it's a little inconvenient forme.
So you don't get to be a kidand be messy for me.
So you don't get to be a kidand be messy.
And so when we engage in thesehobbies and let ourselves just
be messy in the process and likedo that glitter painting or
(25:01):
whatever right, or make thosecookies and get flour over the
entire kitchen, which I do- butwe get the benefits of that.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
You bring those to the office.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yes and yeah.
Later I have to deal with theinconvenience of cleaning it up,
but, oh my gosh, I had funwhile I was doing it and that's
so much more valuable than theinconvenience of cleaning it up.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I think that's such a great point.
And you know, something I oftentell my clients is you know,
childhood in and of itself ischaotic.
Play is chaotic.
You know, we make messes whenwe play.
We, you know, are loud when weplay sometimes but it comes from
such an innocent place that,like really building tolerance
for the messiness is is helpingyou pull more of that innocent
(25:53):
part of you out that sometimeswasn't allowed to be playful
because of the chaos it createdfor the adults.
So I think that's such abeautiful part of reconnecting
to hobbies because it does helpus reparent ourselves, it helps
us attend to that in our childthat maybe wasn't allowed to
have a little chaos from a veryinnocent place but that does
(26:15):
have permission now in in ouradults.
So you know, just like we havepeople who might be like adverse
to hobbies, how do we kind ofnavigate?
You know, not using hobbies tonecessarily numb out or avoid
life using hobbies tonecessarily numb out or avoid
(26:37):
life.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, and I think that's a hard one, because I
think it kind of goes back towhat I was saying earlier of
like you can try to do that, butat some point you're naturally
going to get into that flowstate and you're naturally going
to like explode over.
Maybe, you know, you ran out ofa marker ink or you ran out of
an ingredient, or I had to pulla row out, and when I have a big
(26:58):
reaction to that, well, that'stelling me something, right.
So I think our bodies are sogood at, you know, we try to
think we're smarter than ourbodies, right, like we try to
think.
Yeah, we try, and we are like,well, if I just distract myself
enough, then I won't ever haveto think about this, but our
(27:23):
feelings are going to be heardright one way or another.
Yeah, and we can either one wayor another.
Yeah, and we can either carveout space and intentionally
engage with that, or it's goingto be the Coke bottle explosion
that we do with kids, where itit comes out Right, and so we I
(27:47):
think, yeah, you can try tomindlessly engage in it.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, but it's going to come out.
I think that's an.
I think that's an awesome pointis that you know if you're
using it as avoidance, you'reprobably not actually engaging
in it as it's supposed to beused.
So I think that's same thingwith, like meditation Meditation
won't work if you don'tactually engage with it, If you
kind of?
avoid it, or you do it for fiveminutes and you're done and same
(28:10):
thing with avoid it.
Or you do it for five minutes,or you're done and same thing
with with play or hobbies.
You have to actually engagewith it and if you do, it's
going to process through whatyou need to process through and
it won't be able to be a placeof avoidance.
So I think that's reassuringthat anybody who's you know, not
, you know, or maybe avoidinghobbies because they're like, oh
I, you know, I don't want toget lost in them, I have a very
(28:31):
addictive personality Just, youknow, being very, you know,
clear that engage with them inthe way that they're meant to be
engaged with and it'll do itsjob, so to speak goes with this
(28:52):
idea of like if someone'sstruggling to find joy, right.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
If you're in a depressed state and you're
struggling to find joy, just tryand even if that joy doesn't
come right away, it will right.
And I think that's the samewith that, those hobbies in that
like mindlessly engaging.
Like you know, sometimes we dowant to turn off our minds for a
little bit, and that's okay,but eventually you're going to
connect, you're going to findthe joy and you can ride that
(29:18):
wave, right yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
so if somebody like myself, like I was telling you,
was walking up and down theaisles of their local craft
store trying to decipher, youknow, just just because they
have been in a work mindset orhave had a lot of tasks or
stressful situations pulling atthem, how would you recommend
(29:42):
somebody kind of get started andreconnecting with a hobby, if
they just are really feeling alittle disconnected from even
just stepping into anything?
Where would be a good place tostart?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I think it goes to looking at like what you did
when you were a kid, like, wereyou really into like coloring?
So get some markers and acoloring book they don't have to
be expensive things or if youwere really into making the
friendship bracelets, make thefriendship bracelets again and
use these as a starting pointand then you're gonna see like,
(30:14):
oh, I really like this aspect ofit, but I don't like that.
So maybe I wanna try to dobeads instead.
Or maybe I like the markers butI don't like this type of
coloring book.
So let me try something else.
And just being like curious andstarting from what you liked as
(30:36):
a kid and allowing yourself toopen up to other things.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think that's perfect.
I think just starting from aplace of curiosity, and it's
like one memory you recall fromcamp and you're like, I loved
doing that.
Or I remember in school I lovedcoloring, just really tapping
into that one thing, and itdoesn't have to be a huge
investment, I'm sure, but just away to get reattuned to that
(31:02):
part and it will naturally guideyou.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
And what most people, if they're like me, will find
is that collecting hobbiesbecomes a hobby in of itself.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's so true, but you know, like as much as this
is not the message we're givingto people, you are really really
good at at the creatives andyou know, in speaking with you
this this last week, you shareda little bit of how difficult it
was for you to get started insome of them, but it was part of
your own therapeutic process tokeep, you know, keep trying,
keep coming back to it to toshow that you can hard things
(31:40):
and I'm sure that's part of likeeven just your own self growth.
Um, that you know Kaylee hasindulged in in her creatives and
and grown immensely in them,but that wasn't where she was
and that wasn't her intention indoing them.
But that, as you continue, youdo become more proficient in it
and it does become such abeautiful thing that you share
(32:02):
with others.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
So yeah, thank you.
And it's something where youknow.
I also want to remind everyone,like, as long as I've been
doing some of these things likethe mess up still happen, happen
and the frustration stillhappens.
I was making cookies this pastweekend.
One of our coworkers had sentme a recipe that she wanted me
to try and it said they're sugarcookies.
And I made them and they didnot have the sugar cookie
(32:25):
texture, got so stubborn and sodetermined and ran to the
grocery store too many times toget more ingredients because I
was like no, they have to beright, because something's wrong
.
And those moments like are sojust like frustrating, but also
so therapeutic of like come on,kaylee, like I can let go of
(32:49):
this.
Right, at some point I got torelease that.
Maybe the recipe was wrong,maybe I'm having an off day, but
that's okay, right and so evenuncomfortable for me that
following these directionsdidn't result in the outcome I
(33:14):
expected.
And then how can I release thatwhen it's just not helpful to
go to Publix for the fifth time?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
When I am no longer in joy over the years.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, yeah.
And also you know being able tobe transparent and say you know
what?
I tried the recipe.
It didn't turn out right, but Idid.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
you know I'd love to make banana bread or something
for you all yeah, yeah, I endedup bringing them in anyway and
just being like they didn't turnout how I wanted, but oh well,
and everyone was like, oh, but Ilike them how they are and
stuff, and just remembering thatwe're always harder on
ourselves, it was still fun andfrustrating and those two things
(34:00):
can exist at the same time, andI think that's where people can
get discouraged with hobbies,but I encourage people to ride
that wave.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I love that.
That's such a good message.
Well, this has been such asweet, like joyful podcast in
itself.
Even the topics of frustrationwe were able to move through
pretty quickly and list a minute.
So I think that's just such atestimony to reconnecting with
those hobbies that bring us joy,that bring us, you know,
groundedness and spaces of flowand and care.
(34:30):
So is there anything you wouldlike to share with our listeners
or viewers?
Any additional tidbits?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I don't think so.
I would just encourage everyone, if they listen to this, to
think about something they likedas a kid and try to let
themselves do it.
And try to let yourself find away to make a mess this week and
let yourself be messy.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
I love that Absolutely.
Well, thank you, kaylee, forcoming on today.
And Kaylee works with a lot ofkids, teens, adults in a very
playful space and really helpingthem reconnect to that part of
them that is so valuable,without having to be productive,
and you know she's.
She brings such a ray ofsunshine, not only through her
(35:14):
baked goods and her crafts, butjust through her warm and
inviting energy.
So if you would like to workwith Kaylee or you would like to
talk to her more about how todo some of the self-work through
hobbies and through childlikeplay, we will carry all of her
contact, information, socialsand where you can find her and
schedule a time with her to dosome work with her.
(35:36):
So thank you, kaylee, forjoining us and we look forward
to talking to you soon.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Welcome, Take care everybody.
Hello and welcome to, and Still we Rise.
I am your host, christineSeidel, and today we have
licensed therapist Kaylee Finleyto talk about hobbies.
Welcome, kaylee.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Thank you, I'm so excited.
This is one of my favoritethings to talk about because
it's so important to who I am inmy life, both in the counseling
office and outside, so I'mexcited to talk about this.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, I am beyond excited to have you here.
And for those of you that don'tknow, kaylee is a therapist at
Rise Therapy Center and she isour not only our resident
crafter, but resident baker.
Not even a competition there.
She holds that title.
Nobody meets with it.
So she is the perfect person tocome today and kind of share
(00:49):
you know, not only herexperience with the creatives,
but also just how that helpstherapeutically and in our
self-care.
So before we get started, I'dlove to read a little bio about
Kaylee, and I'll add this in ourdescription as well.
Kaylee is an associateprofessional counselor and
self-proclaimed craftingenthusiast.
Both counseling and craftinghave been an integral part of
(01:12):
her life and she has found eachone benefits the other.
Kaylee works with children,teens and adults in her
counseling and always makes apoint to check in with them
about what they do for fun, asthis is such an overlooked part
of mental health, wellness, suchgood stuff and as a witness to
her work, I can tell you herclients definitely get to have
(01:32):
some fun throughout theirsessions.
So, yeah, well, let's get to it.
So, like hobbies I mean that's,that covers a whole spectrum of
things.
So tell me you know, how arehobbies so useful in shaping our
sense of identity and how wefeel about ourselves and the
(01:53):
emotional processing yeah, Imean.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So, like, when we talk about hobbies, there's
people who like break it downinto like the different types of
hobbies of like you need ahobby for your like physical
health, for like your creativeself, to like make money, which
I don't necessarily agree withthat, but we can go into that
later.
But, um, you know, for me Ijust kind of think of hobbies as
something you do that just forthe sake of bringing you joy.
(02:19):
It's not something that shouldbe pressured, it's something
that should just be pureenjoyment and like creativity
based, or like just somethingthat should be pressured.
It's something that should justbe pure enjoyment and like
creativity based, or like justsomething that you do for
yourself, without expectation.
And I think that's so important, because we have so many things
(02:39):
that are expected of us in ourday-to-day life, right, and we
have to do those things.
But when we pour all of ouridentity into these, into either
our work or even ourrelationships with other people,
we can lose who we are outsideof just serving someone else.
Um, and I think hobbies arereally good because it gets you
(03:02):
back to like your sense ofindividuality, because my, even
if I'm just following like acrochet pattern that someone
else wrote.
If I do it and if my frienddoes it, they're going to be a
little different, just becausewe might hold our yarn tension a
little different, so the sizemight be a little different, or
(03:23):
I mess up in some way that shedoesn't, or she messes up in
some way I do or I don't.
But that is what makes itunique, because only you can
make the thing, only you can dothat hobby in the way that
you're going to do it such avery important point to make is
(03:48):
it's really like an authenticexpression of self.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
no matter how you do it or how you try to do it, it
is going to come out as like you, in whatever way that is, and
it's going to be unique anddifferent and from somebody else
who may be doing the exact samething.
So you know how does how dohobbies help us reconnect with
ourselves?
You know why are they importantin that aspect?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
yeah.
So I think you know, obviouslywe can't ever exist in a vacuum,
right?
And hobbies are the same oflike.
There will always be otherpeople who do the same hobby or
have done it.
And for me, I think the waythat hobbies like help us
connect with ourselves isthrough the fact that it's
(04:31):
connecting with other people too, in a way.
And there's like this quote Ifound years ago that really
struck me when we engage in thisis talking specifically about
fiber arts, but I think it canbe applied to a lot of different
hobbies.
When we engage in fiber arts,we are creating something, but
we're also participating inhistoric traditions tens of
(04:51):
thousands of years old.
You are not only making art foryour soul and for future
generations, you are embodyingthe work of your ancestors.
So it's this way of combining,like the past, present and
future, which we know are allthings that shape who we are,
(05:12):
and it's a way to feel connected.
And through those connectionswith you know ancestors or
future generations, we shape whowe are too.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
we shape who we are too.
Yeah, wow, I mean, I think thatthat's, that's even something
that, like I haven't eventhought about is, like you know
especially talking about thatquote from the fiber arts that
so many of these hobbies havebeen things that generations
whether they're our ancestors orfrom a cultural perspective
(05:44):
have done.
That when we're doing it in themoment, it's almost like we're
participating in that, likecollective of people that are
present in that moment and thenwill be present with others in
the future when they do that too, which I think, is something
that's lost when we'reconstantly in this, you know,
being productive, doing thingsthat benefit us.
(06:06):
There's really no connection tothe here and now, which actually
connects us to those that haveand those that will, and I think
that's a really beautiful thingto be conscious of in so many
ways.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, and that's for me a big part of my story and
how I got started like withcrafting of um, back when I was
in like elementary school and mygrandmother passed away, my
aunt gave me her knittingneedles and obviously in
elementary school I didn't Iwasn't into that yet or anything
but uh, and it took a few yearsfor me to get into it, but just
(06:45):
like having that traditionpassed down, and eventually I
used specifically andintentionally I used her needles
to create a baby blanket for myfirst nephew, and so it was a
really beautiful way of justlike even if only I ever knew
that I did that.
I mean, I told my sister andobviously I'm saying it now, but
(07:07):
even if only I had known thatthat was like a significant like
way of connecting, like thegenerations.
And you know, when we get lostin this like productivity state,
we are losing sight of the pastand the future, and so it's
almost like through doing thesehobbies and engaging in the
(07:29):
present, we're engaging in abigger picture too.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Wow.
And so it's almost like that inand of itself kind of removes
the need for it to be productive, because we're really
connecting with somethinggreater than productivity or
greater than you know makingmoney off of it for it.
Being for something, it's otherthan just.
It means more of just likebeing with it.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, and I think that's been a really interesting
thing of you know this balancebetween what is your hobby
versus what is a like job.
And there are people who like,when I show them my work I do,
their first reaction is like youcould sell this and like it's
so well-intentioned and I knowit's a compliment, but it also
(08:21):
is like but that's not thepurpose, Because it's just.
Even if I were to make thingsonly for myself, if someone were
a wonderful artist but they hidtheir notebooks away and didn't
let anyone see them, that'sokay.
Yeah, it can be just for youand like I choose with my crafts
(08:45):
and stuff.
It's usually stuff I make forother people or you know,
because I know these people willvalue it and it's a way I show
love and affection and pourmyself into something and that's
a testament to like the love Ihave in those relationships.
(09:05):
But even if someone is tocreate and they never tell
anyone about that hobby, that'sokay.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, and I think that that brings up another
question.
So, like when you have a clientwho maybe is, like, really into
drawing, let's say, forinstance, but doesn't want to
share it with people, like, whatbenefit does that client get to
still participating in thathobby, doing it regularly?
Like, what is the therapeuticor benefit to the nervous system
(09:39):
or the emotional processing?
What do hobbies or creativeoutlets do for us in our
self-work or in our therapeuticwork?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, I think it gives us, like, a sense of
purpose and identity and it also, like, builds our self-esteem
of like.
If this is something we learn todo, like so many of these
things, it takes time to learnhow to do them and it's usually
at least in my experience tearsand frustration and tearing up a
paper, ripping things out, andyou know, that alone teaches us
(10:12):
so much about ourselves.
But it's also that you know ourfeelings are going to come out
when they're going to come outright.
And if you're, if someonedoesn't want to show anyone that
but they're drawing and they'regetting super frustrated, but
(10:32):
it's something they've done athousand times, maybe that
frustration is about somethingelse, right, and it's going to,
it's going to come out right.
And so, just engaging in thosepractices that allow us to
connect to ourselves in themoment, that is the prime time
for our feelings to be like, hey, I'm here, I need to be seen,
(10:57):
and if you're going to try tolike, mindlessly engage in
something, yeah, but it'screative and it's regulating us,
those feelings are going tocome up right, and so it can be
a tool for our body to like,talk to us.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I think that's like spot on.
It's like, I think, like whenyou're crocheting or when
somebody goes into drawing orgoes into painting, you know
they get into that for more thanfive, 10 minutes, right, like
those five or 10 minutes, maybea lot of chatter, it might be a
lot of like things from the day,that's there.
But then when you get into thatflow of the looping and the
(11:44):
hooking or the strokes or thedrawing, all of a sudden that's
like a beautiful form ofmeditation where you're no
longer kind of looping throughthe thoughts and the feelings of
the day and they can come andthey can go.
And I think that's somethingthat we don't, you know, when
we're in, for our bodies to bestill for that processing, for,
(12:14):
for that settling of of thenervous system, to get to a
place of flow which I thinkcreative outlets, hobbies,
gardening, all of those thingsultimately put you into flow and
your nervous system is able toprocess them in such an
appropriate way, versus fightingthem throughout the day or even
(12:35):
fighting them as you start toget into your hobby or starting
to get into your project.
You know, like how many timesare we like um, I really don't
want to do this today.
It was awful yesterday.
I know I experienced that, thatwith my you know daughter this
week.
I'm just like this is so hard,but like the tenacity of moving
through that difficulty too issuch a lesson.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So it is it is, and I think that's like one of those
benefits of where we can bothfind this balance of.
You know, we don't have to begood at what we do and, like I
cannot draw to save my life,right, like I I use it as a joke
with clients, especially liketeens, who I talked to about
(13:19):
like not being good at somethingor just like when we have to
like accept our limits or youknow, maybe if I really
challenged myself and reallyspent the time, I could get
better at drawing.
But it's not a priority for meand that's okay.
So I'll even jokingly be like,you know, let me draw this bird
and like, am I good at this?
(13:41):
Like no, that's okay, I canlaugh at that, right, yeah, but
if I enjoy doing little doodlessometimes and they're awful,
okay, but I enjoy it, right, andthat's okay.
And I think that's what hobbiescan teach us so much, and
especially for, like, our innerchild, where we're not good at
(14:01):
something right away, or like ifit doesn't feel like something
we can show off to someone elseand get praise, it doesn't.
It hurts.
But why does it hurt, right?
Why does it hurt when it makesus happy, like if we're having
fun in that moment?
Why do we step back and saythis isn't good and it hurts us?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, I think you know, as an inner child
therapist that being my you knowmodality and philosophy I think
it's a great way to come backto that younger part, to hear
what is the story that's kind ofplaying out in something that
should be, you know, just funand it should be innocent and it
(14:46):
should be.
And so what is that in ourdialogue that's coming out?
That maybe not, maybe I mean, Iknow it's a hundred percent is
but maybe playing out in otherareas of your life, and so I
think that that's also abeautiful place to kind of
reclaim your inner child andfind places and spaces to to
speak kindness around, like howthat part of you shows up in the
(15:10):
world.
Seek kindness around, like howthat part of you shows up in the
world, especially around thingsthat just get to be fun and
nourishing for you and notnecessarily productive.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, and you know, I think that's something that the
world is learning a lot more,and we were talking about this
briefly before this.
We've started recording of.
Like COVID was, of course,awful in so many ways, but we
were stuck at home and peoplestarted to realize like I don't
know what to do with myself whenI have true downtime and when
(15:42):
I'm just like alone with myself,Because we never really let
ourselves be alone with ourselfand I know that's something I
struggle with too of even whenI'm knitting or crocheting or
baking, I want to have a podcaston, I want to have the TV on
and like that's okay sometimes,but you also need to be able to
sit with yourself.
(16:03):
But my point being, like COVIDmade us sit with ourselves so
much and we realized that somany people realize like if I'm
not at work or if I'm not outserving someone else, I don't
know what to do with myself.
That's where people startedbaking sourdough and like
(16:23):
started crocheting, became a bigthing I saw a lot of and
because people realize like, oh,I don't have an identity
outside of work wow that, thatjust hit so hard.
Right?
Because, like, even when I likeintroduce myself to people,
(16:46):
it's like if someone asked melike who's Kaylee?
I will say I'm a therapistbecause and I love that that's
been my calling for since I wasin middle school but I'm also
that is not also only who I am.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, and you know that's something that you know
the listeners or the viewersdon't know.
We were actually at aconference all together a few
weeks ago and you know,something I became very
conscious of is like us spendingtime outside of work.
You know, we found all theseways to reconnect but I found
myself still talking so muchabout therapeutic perspectives
(17:25):
and you know, like of coursewe're at a conference of a bunch
of therapists that we're allanalyzing each other.
You know, like they gave andshared, like on our group chat,
when we came back, I was like Ineed a hobby, like it's so hard
for me to step out of even beingin fun and connecting, still
having this narrative of what Ido.
(17:46):
And that was very eyeopening.
And I went with my daughterthis this past week to Michael's
and we were walking up and downthe aisles because she wanted
to start crocheting, which waspart of our tears this week.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
But I've been there.
Yeah, I've been there.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
And I was walking up and down the hall, the aisles,
and I was having a really hardtime trying to figure out what I
would want to do, like what Iwould like to do just to, like
you know, go into a creativespace, color, paint, whatever it
(18:25):
was.
And it was that experience atthe conference and that
experience with her at Michael'sthat I realized I have got to
find a time and a space that Ireally do step back into, not
doing or producing or serving orgiving, and just be with myself
through the creative arts orplay or whatever.
Yeah, it just it really.
(18:47):
It shocked me me, because itprobably is something that comes
from a place of I feel guiltyif I do that.
So why do people feel guiltytaking time to indulge in
hobbies and spend time curatinghobbies for themselves?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, I think we, our society, just values like
productivity so much and justlike the ways like you make
money right, and I think thatgoes back to like when I show
people things, it's oh, like youcould sell that, it's like okay
, I could, but also that maytake the joy out of it.
And so I think I think we'vegotten into this idea that, um,
(19:28):
there was this movement of likeself-care isn't selfish, right,
or like doing something foryourself isn't selfish, and I
think that was really liketalked about.
But I don't know if people havereally internalized that Like.
And it's hard to when thesociety we live in like doesn't
the nine to five life doesn'treally fuel space, because
(19:50):
people come home so mentallydrained and have all these other
responsibilities that you know,saying no to doing something
else, or well, I could be usingmy time to read like do
something that's productive,that I can show for my like
(20:11):
growth and value.
Um, but we don't have to beproductive to be valuable and oh
, wow, like we can just be, andthat's so uncomfortable because
we want to prove ourselves.
Yeah, I think that's that's thebig thing.
Because we want to proveourselves.
Yeah, I think that's the bigthing and we want to prove
(20:35):
ourselves.
And one way we prove ourselvesin this world is like, how do I
make money?
Like how much money can I make?
How can I contribute to?
Like everything else, but howdo you contribute to yourself?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
And I think that goes back to.
You know, we had a podcast afew episodes ago that talked
about achievement culture, and Iand I think that you know
really what that boils down tois, what do I have to show for
what I've been investing timeinto?
And I think that, for hobbies,that, in and of itself, I think
that's why people struggle.
(21:08):
Sometimes they're like, oh, Ireally love doing this, I'm
really good at this hobby, Ishould sell it or I should show
it to people, because we'restill looking for that external
validation that we're valuable.
But, like you just said, wedon't have to be productive to
have value in this world, and soI think that's such a difficult
(21:29):
threshold for our culture tocross over, because we've been
kind of conditioned sincechildhood to be productive.
And even I know, when I workwith adults and I'm, you know,
really trying to help them withways to regulate their nervous
system, all of these likestrategies we can use for
(21:52):
nervous system regulation.
But I have a whole set ofplayful ones.
Yeah, playful that they'reusually like no, like it doesn't
seem big right, like it's gonna.
It's gonna regulate the nervoussystem.
Sometimes those even more sothan than the other ones.
But when they see the playfulones, there's automatically this
feeling like those aren't goingto work.
Interestingly enough, themajority of them come back and
say, actually I love those,those were so fun, I prefer
(22:15):
those.
But there's just somethingabout being in a place of like
play that you'll like isn'tgoing to be helpful or
productive, even when we'rewanting to like, regulate and
calm our nervous system.
So it's interesting our ouraversion to it because of the
conditioning of achievement andproductivity.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, and I think so much of it, yeah, I think, goes
back to that and goes back tothat like achievement culture
being taught early on and alsothat, like you know, for so many
of us who have childhood woundswhere we were taught, taught we
had to grow up faster.
So even in childhood wecouldn't fully connect with
(22:57):
being a child, and so now as anadult, that childhood state
wasn't safe.
So we don't want to go intothose playful states because
that also wasn't safe.
But actually what we can do andof course you know this is
reparent ourself and reclaimthat childhood part and let it
(23:17):
have the experience we deserveto have as children that we
didn't get to have.
And so so, yeah, for Letyourself be a child and finger
paint get messy.
Like you know, I feel like somuch of it is when I see kids
even and we're doing glitter orall that they get concerned
(23:41):
about cleaning it up.
No, you get to be messy in here, that's okay, that's so fun.
Isn't it fun to go jump in amud puddle and get messy, right,
like that's what our innerchild wants.
But we're even taught as kidslike to be concerned about the.
What am I looking for?
(24:05):
Sorry, my word lost me.
The like, like consequences,the consequence or like the
adult impact or inconvenienceyeah there it is, yeah, I think.
Yeah, it's inconvenient for toclean up stuff, okay, so yeah
(24:25):
right, so so we clean up that,that's fine, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
I'd rather have take my 10 minutes between sessions
to be cleaning up glitter andlike letting the kids be messy
than being like no, as an adultit makes me uncomfortable or
it's a little inconvenient forme.
So you don't get to be a kidand be messy for me.
So you don't get to be a kidand be messy.
And so when we engage in thesehobbies and let ourselves just
be messy in the process and likedo that glitter painting or
(25:01):
whatever right, or make thosecookies and get flour over the
entire kitchen, which I do- butwe get the benefits of that.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
You bring those to the office.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yes and yeah.
Later I have to deal with theinconvenience of cleaning it up,
but, oh my gosh, I had funwhile I was doing it and that's
so much more valuable than theinconvenience of cleaning it up.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I think that's such a great point.
And you know, something I oftentell my clients is you know,
childhood in and of itself ischaotic.
Play is chaotic.
You know, we make messes whenwe play.
We, you know, are loud when weplay sometimes but it comes from
such an innocent place that,like really building tolerance
for the messiness is is helpingyou pull more of that innocent
(25:53):
part of you out that sometimeswasn't allowed to be playful
because of the chaos it createdfor the adults.
So I think that's such abeautiful part of reconnecting
to hobbies because it does helpus reparent ourselves, it helps
us attend to that in our childthat maybe wasn't allowed to
have a little chaos from a veryinnocent place but that does
(26:15):
have permission now in in ouradults.
So you know, just like we havepeople who might be like adverse
to hobbies, how do we kind ofnavigate?
You know, not using hobbies tonecessarily numb out or avoid
life using hobbies tonecessarily numb out or avoid
(26:37):
life.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, and I think that's a hard one, because I
think it kind of goes back towhat I was saying earlier of
like you can try to do that, butat some point you're naturally
going to get into that flowstate and you're naturally going
to like explode over.
Maybe, you know, you ran out ofa marker ink or you ran out of
an ingredient, or I had to pulla row out, and when I have a big
(26:58):
reaction to that, well, that'stelling me something, right.
So I think our bodies are sogood at, you know, we try to
think we're smarter than ourbodies, right, like we try to
think.
Yeah, we try, and we are like,well, if I just distract myself
enough, then I won't ever haveto think about this, but our
(27:23):
feelings are going to be heardright one way or another.
Yeah, and we can either one wayor another.
Yeah, and we can either carveout space and intentionally
engage with that, or it's goingto be the Coke bottle explosion
that we do with kids, where itit comes out Right, and so we I
(27:47):
think, yeah, you can try tomindlessly engage in it.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, but it's going to come out.
I think that's an.
I think that's an awesome pointis that you know if you're
using it as avoidance, you'reprobably not actually engaging
in it as it's supposed to beused.
So I think that's same thingwith, like meditation Meditation
won't work if you don'tactually engage with it, If you
kind of?
avoid it, or you do it for fiveminutes and you're done and same
(28:10):
thing with avoid it.
Or you do it for five minutes,or you're done and same thing
with with play or hobbies.
You have to actually engagewith it and if you do, it's
going to process through whatyou need to process through and
it won't be able to be a placeof avoidance.
So I think that's reassuringthat anybody who's you know, not
, you know, or maybe avoidinghobbies because they're like, oh
I, you know, I don't want toget lost in them, I have a very
(28:31):
addictive personality Just, youknow, being very, you know,
clear that engage with them inthe way that they're meant to be
engaged with and it'll do itsjob, so to speak goes with this
(28:52):
idea of like if someone'sstruggling to find joy, right.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
If you're in a depressed state and you're
struggling to find joy, just tryand even if that joy doesn't
come right away, it will right.
And I think that's the samewith that, those hobbies in that
like mindlessly engaging.
Like you know, sometimes we dowant to turn off our minds for a
little bit, and that's okay,but eventually you're going to
connect, you're going to findthe joy and you can ride that
(29:18):
wave, right yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
so if somebody like myself, like I was telling you,
was walking up and down theaisles of their local craft
store trying to decipher, youknow, just just because they
have been in a work mindset orhave had a lot of tasks or
stressful situations pulling atthem, how would you recommend
(29:42):
somebody kind of get started andreconnecting with a hobby, if
they just are really feeling alittle disconnected from even
just stepping into anything?
Where would be a good place tostart?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I think it goes to looking at like what you did
when you were a kid, like, wereyou really into like coloring?
So get some markers and acoloring book they don't have to
be expensive things or if youwere really into making the
friendship bracelets, make thefriendship bracelets again and
use these as a starting pointand then you're gonna see like,
(30:14):
oh, I really like this aspect ofit, but I don't like that.
So maybe I wanna try to dobeads instead.
Or maybe I like the markers butI don't like this type of
coloring book.
So let me try something else.
And just being like curious andstarting from what you liked as
(30:36):
a kid and allowing yourself toopen up to other things.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think that's perfect.
I think just starting from aplace of curiosity, and it's
like one memory you recall fromcamp and you're like, I loved
doing that.
Or I remember in school I lovedcoloring, just really tapping
into that one thing, and itdoesn't have to be a huge
investment, I'm sure, but just away to get reattuned to that
(31:02):
part and it will naturally guideyou.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
And what most people, if they're like me, will find
is that collecting hobbiesbecomes a hobby in of itself.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's so true, but you know, like as much as this
is not the message we're givingto people, you are really really
good at at the creatives andyou know, in speaking with you
this this last week, you shareda little bit of how difficult it
was for you to get started insome of them, but it was part of
your own therapeutic process tokeep, you know, keep trying,
keep coming back to it to toshow that you can hard things
(31:40):
and I'm sure that's part of likeeven just your own self growth.
Um, that you know Kaylee hasindulged in in her creatives and
and grown immensely in them,but that wasn't where she was
and that wasn't her intention indoing them.
But that, as you continue, youdo become more proficient in it
and it does become such abeautiful thing that you share
(32:02):
with others.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
So yeah, thank you.
And it's something where youknow.
I also want to remind everyone,like, as long as I've been
doing some of these things likethe mess up still happen, happen
and the frustration stillhappens.
I was making cookies this pastweekend.
One of our coworkers had sentme a recipe that she wanted me
to try and it said they're sugarcookies.
And I made them and they didnot have the sugar cookie
(32:25):
texture, got so stubborn and sodetermined and ran to the
grocery store too many times toget more ingredients because I
was like no, they have to beright, because something's wrong
.
And those moments like are sojust like frustrating, but also
so therapeutic of like come on,kaylee, like I can let go of
(32:49):
this.
Right, at some point I got torelease that.
Maybe the recipe was wrong,maybe I'm having an off day, but
that's okay, right and so evenuncomfortable for me that
following these directionsdidn't result in the outcome I
(33:14):
expected.
And then how can I release thatwhen it's just not helpful to
go to Publix for the fifth time?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
When I am no longer in joy over the years.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, yeah.
And also you know being able tobe transparent and say you know
what?
I tried the recipe.
It didn't turn out right, but Idid.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
you know I'd love to make banana bread or something
for you all yeah, yeah, I endedup bringing them in anyway and
just being like they didn't turnout how I wanted, but oh well,
and everyone was like, oh, but Ilike them how they are and
stuff, and just remembering thatwe're always harder on
ourselves, it was still fun andfrustrating and those two things
(34:00):
can exist at the same time, andI think that's where people can
get discouraged with hobbies,but I encourage people to ride
that wave.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I love that.
That's such a good message.
Well, this has been such asweet, like joyful podcast in
itself.
Even the topics of frustrationwe were able to move through
pretty quickly and list a minute.
So I think that's just such atestimony to reconnecting with
those hobbies that bring us joy,that bring us, you know,
groundedness and spaces of flowand and care.
(34:30):
So is there anything you wouldlike to share with our listeners
or viewers?
Any additional tidbits?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I don't think so.
I would just encourage everyone, if they listen to this, to
think about something they likedas a kid and try to let
themselves do it.
And try to let yourself find away to make a mess this week and
let yourself be messy.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
I love that Absolutely.
Well, thank you, kaylee, forcoming on today.
And Kaylee works with a lot ofkids, teens, adults in a very
playful space and really helpingthem reconnect to that part of
them that is so valuable,without having to be productive,
and you know she's.
She brings such a ray ofsunshine, not only through her
(35:14):
baked goods and her crafts, butjust through her warm and
inviting energy.
So if you would like to workwith Kaylee or you would like to
talk to her more about how todo some of the self-work through
hobbies and through childlikeplay, we will carry all of her
contact, information, socialsand where you can find her and
schedule a time with her to dosome work with her.
(35:36):
So thank you, kaylee, forjoining us and we look forward
to talking to you soon.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Welcome, Take care everybody.
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