September 23, 2025 • 26 mins
What happens when we step outside our comfortable social bubbles? Licensed Professional Counselor Lauren Buice joins Cristine Seidell to explore how intentionally building diverse friendships transforms not just our communities, but our mental health.
The conversation begins with a crucial reframing – diversity extends far beyond race and gender to include age differences, socioeconomic backgrounds, religious beliefs, and abilities. Lauren explains how staying in homogeneous social groups creates harmful "echo chambers" that reinforce our biases and actually increase our anxiety when confronting differences. Through her touching personal story of living with 80-year-old Glenda, she demonstrates how intergenerational friendships provide unique perspective and wisdom that same-age relationships simply cannot offer.
Using her hand-drawn "Comfort-Stretch-Panic zones" model, Lauren visually illustrates a counterintuitive truth: the more we stay in our comfort zone, the smaller it becomes. By regularly stretching ourselves through diverse connections, we gradually expand what feels comfortable, building cognitive flexibility and resilience that serves us throughout life.
For those feeling overwhelmed by the idea of diversifying their communities, Lauren offers gentle, practical starting points – pursue activities you genuinely enjoy where diverse people naturally gather, engage in volunteer work with a shared purpose, or explore community centers and libraries. She provides a powerful litmus test for authentic intentions: "Am I looking to learn or looking to earn?" Would you still participate if you couldn't tell anyone or post about it?
Perhaps most compelling is Lauren's insight that diverse communities enhance our capacity for processing life's hardest moments. Different cultures and communities offer varied approaches to grief, trauma, and healing. By expanding our circles, we gain access to a wealth of coping tools and wisdom that wouldn't be available in homogeneous groups.
Ready to expand your bubble? Listen now to discover how getting a little uncomfortable might be the best thing for your mental health.
To work with Lauren and or learn more about the work she does, you can find her at:
https://www.risetherapycenter.com/lauren
Or on IG @laurenrisetherapycenter.com
Thank you for tuning into And Still WE Rise! If you would like to learn more about me or the work our practice is doing, feel free to follow us on Instagram at:
@atltherapygirl and @risetherapycenter
Or check us out at www.risetherapycenter.com
Disclaimer: And Still We Rise is meant to provide perspective and meaningful conversations around mental health topics. It is not meant to provide specific therapeutic advise to individuals. If anything in these podcasts resonates, ASWR recommends consulting with your individual therapist or seeking a referral from your primary care physician.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello and welcome to In Still we Rise.
I'm your host, christine Seidel, and today we have licensed
professional counselor LaurenWeiss joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome, Lauren.
Hey, thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm super excited to be hereand dive into this topic.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah, and actually Lauren is a bit of a veteran
when it comes to podcasts, so wewill have to link some of the
other podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I was just thinking.
I was like, oh, this is not herfirst rodeo.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
This will be my little side gig.
This will be great.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Exactly.
Well, before we jump intotoday's topic, I want to read a
little information about Laurenso you can know a little bit of
her background.
So, to begin, lauren Bice is alicensed professional counselor
who specializes in working withchildren, adolescents and their
families.
With a warm and authenticapproach, she helps clients
navigate challenges such asanxiety, emotional dysregulation
(00:57):
and social skills through theuse of art, play and whatever
else a kid or teen may need.
She has a unique perspective oncommunity well-being, gained
from her passion from bringingmental health insights to both
schools and faith communities.
Her experience with familysystems and community dynamics
makes her the perfect person todiscuss how intentionally
(01:17):
building intergenerational anddiverse friendships can build
and lead to greater empathy,personal growth and a stronger
sense of belonging.
Welcome, lauren.
That is such a perfect topicand I love that you put in that
you like to use art and play,because I think we might
actually experience a little ofthat today.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Oh goodness, I said I use it.
I didn't say I was good at itbut, yes, awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Well, thanks for being on here and we are, as we
heard a little bit in the bio,going to talk about getting out
of your bubble and buildingdiverse communities.
So, to begin, what does thateven mean?
You know what are diversecommunities?
Why is that important?
You know, whenever we hear thatdiverse communities, we usually
think of like race or gender.
But like, what does that evenmean?
(02:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And, of course, race and gender can certainly be an
aspect of diversity, and it's avery important one, but there's
a lot of other aspects ofdiversity that might not be the
first thing that comes to yourmind.
So we're talking aboutdifferences in age.
That's why I mentioned theintergenerational friendships.
It might be socioeconomicstatus, it could be religious
views, it could be differencesin abilities and disabilities.
(02:29):
Lots of different things areincluded in the word diversity.
So, just to be clear, obviously, diversity when it comes to
race, ethnicity very important,that's definitely an aspect of
this, but don't think thatthat's the only thing that this
topic is relative to.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Very true, absolutely so.
When we look at diversecommunities, when we look at our
own communities that areexisting within our lives, why
is making it and building it tobe wider and more inclusive of
those that are different from usso important?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
more inclusive of those that are different from us
.
So important?
Yeah, absolutely so.
It really is human nature tostick with what you know, who
you know, and to be at ahomogenous group of people that
look like you, sound like you,all of these things.
And again, while that is maybenatural, it is not always the
best for our mental health, forour cognitive flexibility, for
our outlooks on life.
So what studies have found isthat when you really restrict
(03:27):
your bubble right, you stayaround your group of people.
It kind of develops somethingcalled an echo chamber.
So that is when your biases,your beliefs, are constantly
being validated, reinforced.
You don't have to facechallenges, opposing views,
differences, the unknown, andit's just like cool, I'm going
(03:48):
to stay in my little bubble.
And so then, when things areoutside of what you believe,
outside of your normal, or justare different and unknown, that
creates a big sense of anxiety,fear, defensiveness, and so
getting out of your bubble,having more experiences that
challenge you and stress you,and learning to roll with those,
(04:09):
it creates cognitiveflexibility.
So that's your ability to gothrough new events, take on new
challenges, without the hugespike of anxiety or
defensiveness where we shut down.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I think we can.
We can see that in our culture,how, like even just a
difference in belief or you know, the the big no-no topics like
politics, yep, when we, whenwe're confronted with somebody
who believes or has differentperspectives from us, there's
this automatic sense of likedefense or like anxiety around
that.
So what you're saying is, as weexpose ourselves and immerse
(04:47):
ourselves into that diversity of, of, of everything that makes
us different and unique, we'restretching ourselves to not have
that automatic response in thein those moments.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Exactly.
It really, I think, comes downto you know, we're not trying to
create a like a.
You have to now change all thatyou believe.
You have to move away from whatyou were taught.
That's not necessarily whatthis is about.
This is about recognizing thatit doesn't have to be an us
versus them.
It doesn't have to be youversus other people.
(05:22):
Right, it can be coexisting, itcan be collaborating, it can be
a lot of things that are morepeaceful without you necessarily
.
Again, we're not sitting heresaying, hey, change everything
you've ever believed but you canhave what you believe and not
be biased against other groupsof people.
You can have what you believeand still respect and have
(05:42):
empathy for these other groups.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
That's a great point.
Now I know you specificallyreally like to champion
intergenerational diversitywithin you know relationships
and friendships.
So tell me, what's the benefitof intergenerational?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yes, absolutely.
So this, this is a personalthing of mine.
Back when I moved to a new cityfor for grad school, for
counseling school, I was like,well, who do I know in this city
, who can I maybe live with?
Cause I didn't want to have totry to work a full-time job and
go to school full-time.
So I ended up meeting this ladynamed Glenda.
(06:20):
I got her permission to talkabout our story.
She is really truly like thenearest and dearest person to my
heart.
So what started out is like, oh,I'll just be here for like a
year, maybe two, turned intofive because our relationship.
I know I lived with her until Igot married, but that is
because our relationship becamejust foundational for me and for
(06:40):
her.
So we went through COVIDtogether, which I don't know how
yeah, I don't know how eitherone of us really would have
survived without the otherperson.
That was very, very big for us.
And people all the time when Itell them, yeah, I live with
this.
You know, now she's, she's 80,now you know this 80 year old
friend of mine, they're like, oh, you must be so good for her,
(07:03):
you must help so much.
And I would be like, well, yeah, I do, but no one really
understands the impact that shehas been able to have on me and
the things that I have gottenfrom her, and so it is not a one
way street.
And so, yeah, I championintergenerational friendships
and encouraging young people andolder people to come together
(07:23):
in new ways and coexist andlearn from one another, because
it is very, very good, justmental health wise, all the way
around across generations.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I think that's such a cultural thing that needs to be
reexamined is that once wereach a certain age, we really
don't have anything to offer thecommunity, and you know we
treat our older community as if,like, they need to be cared for
.
So can you give me someexamples of like?
(07:53):
What did you gain in thatrelationship?
What did you grow and learnfrom Ms Glenda?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Besides lots of baking tips and lots of
gardening tips.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I tell people maybe I need to hang out with her for a
little while, Cause I'm sureI'm in that area.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Well, I got.
I got a bunch of old ladyhobbies, which was honestly
wonderful.
I know way more about birdsthan I ever thought I would, but
I love it and I guess, bigpicture, some things that I got
from her was a lot ofperspective.
You know, I'm, you know, ayounger person, so I don't have
the life experience that shedoes.
She has seen and gone throughway more than I have, so when
(08:34):
things are really crushing to meor seem really big and
insurmountable, she could bevery validating about like yeah,
I went through that or I wentthrough something similar and I
came out on the other side, youknow.
So her perspective, her wisdom,um, and her resilience to again
to see somebody who has gonethrough challenges in life and
(08:57):
is still just one of thehappiest, sweetest people I know
, was this awakening of like,wow, like I can be that one day.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, and I think that's so important, like, lived
experience is such great wisdomand what we experience in one
season of life somebody else hasnavigated through and somebody
has learned from that, and as weopen up our community to find
those people that have more lifeexperience than ourselves, we
(09:29):
probably will find some wisdomthere, if they too, have been
rooted in, you know, opening uptheir perspective to things.
So I think that's somethingthat, as a culture, you know, we
really move towards shiftinginto the value of people's lived
experiences and what value andrichness they bring.
So now, how might the lack ofdiversity really, you know,
(09:56):
impact somebody?
You know how can thatcontribute to mental health
struggles or challenges?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Oh, absolutely so, one.
It really does create a senseof isolation.
Even if you have your group,who looks like you, sounds like
you, talks like you, all thesethings, when you stay in your
bubble the outside world becomeslike a no, no, like a
restriction, right, and so webecome isolated because there's
not enough room for a variancein thought and belief and style
(10:24):
and so it's like, okay, well,now I have to kind of fit into
this mold.
And another thing is when yoursense of identity and your
validation comes from one source, one people, what happens when
that becomes threatened?
Right, if you are, youridentity is rooted in one group,
one belief, one style of things.
(10:45):
Anything that challenges that isgoing to shake you to your core
and you're not resilient enoughfor that if you don't have
those outside resources.
So we've got isolation, we'vegot that.
We've got obviously bias, right, Like we all are, we all have
biases.
But then there are dangerousbiases, like really harmful
biases that exist and those justget reinforced.
(11:06):
And again we can point back to,like that fear and
defensiveness thing, again too,of experiencing more anxiety,
more fear when you stay in yourbubble, you don't get out and
and challenge yourself andchallenge your ways of thinking.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I think that's a really good point and I think
that you know, to some extentthere may even be, you know, a
sense of detachment from self.
You know, like, if your bubbleis so rooted in their core
beliefs or their coreconnections, connections that
dissenting from that would be athreat to your sense of
(11:44):
belonging, how authentic can youreally be with yourself if you
do maybe want to challenge thatbelief or you do want to
challenge that bias, like youknow how much resilience, like
you said, do you have toactually confront the threat of
disconnect or a threat, threatof being abandoned or rejected
(12:06):
from that community, and ifthat's a real threat, if there
isn't enough diversity, thenthat there may be a place where
people start detaching fromthemselves and they really can't
, you know, process thingsauthentically.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think some one thing to keep
in mind that maybe people don'tthink about is when you stay in
your bubble, your bubble isgoing to get smaller, right?
So you're not going to have thesame bubble throughout your
lifetime, and so if you're notactively getting out of your
bubble, stretching it, then it'sgoing to get smaller.
And this is where I'm going tointroduce the arts and crafts
(12:39):
that you referenced earlier inthe video.
I did not even attempt to getperfectly circular things,
because you know what, and Iwork with kids and maybe I cut,
like them too, and it's allabout embracing imperfection.
So this is my very firstattempt at a model called the
comfort, stretch and panic zones.
This is by Ryan and Markova.
(13:02):
We can maybe link somethingdown below as a resource.
So here we go.
I don't know if everyone cansee it.
So we've got inner circle thisbig green dot with the C.
This stands for our comfortzone.
So when we're talking about ourbubble, we're talking about our
comfort zone, right?
This is where you feel renewed,safe, relaxed, comfortable, all
those things.
Then we get a little bitfurther outside and we've got
(13:23):
the stretch zone.
So this is the yellow zone,right?
So this is where we feelexcited or nervous or, as I tell
my kids, nervous-sided isdefinitely a word, it's
definitely an emotion.
This is where we get stretchedand challenged.
A word, it's definitely anemotion.
This is where we get stretchedand challenged and this is where
we grow.
We like to spend time in thisyellow section.
And then we have the red zone, apanic zone.
(13:44):
This is where we are fearful,defensive, shutting down.
So when we get into this redzone, then obviously our
instinct is to come back intothat green zone, and that's
something that we have to do,and this is something we
experience daily.
So kind of what happens, though, when we do not embrace diverse
friendships, when we stay inour bubble, is.
(14:05):
Here's my second option ourlittle green zone, our comfort
zone, gets a lot smaller, so youhave less room to move because
you're not stretching yourself,and so, look, the red is so much
bigger.
There's more things that aregoing to send you into that
panic zone, but when we dostretch ourselves, when we exist
in this stretch zone, becausewhenever we're in the stretch
(14:28):
zone, eventually those things inour stretch zone are going to
move to the green zone.
Eventually, those things thatwere once stretching us are now
comfortable, and so we end uphaving a much bigger green
circle, a much bigger comfortzone, and we can exist in a much
more rich space, a much moreauthentic and rich space, where
(14:49):
we're not constantly bumping upagainst the edges of our comfort
zone and constantly beingthrown into a stretch or a panic
zone.
So this is my little, sadly notvery artistic vision.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, that's a great visual and I think that, like,
especially working with kids,you know, we we regularly tell
children, we tell their parents,like, allow your children to be
uncomfortable, allow yourchildren to sit in the
discomfort and the difficulty ofsomething that is new and
different and challenging, andwe have to remember we need to
do that too.
Like that is still somethingthat we need to experience as
(15:25):
adults, and community isdefinitely something that it
feels difficult to step into newspaces because of that,
sometimes fear of beingperceived or fear of lack of
similarities, you know, whichreally ends up kind of becoming
a self thing.
So, therapeutically, how wouldyou work with somebody who may
(15:46):
be really resistant or hesitantto step into spaces of diversity
or put themselves out there andget out of their bubble?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, absolutely so one.
I think when we're talkingabout stepping into spaces of
diversity, people automaticallygo to like really big changes
and really big steps.
You know, it is not realisticfor a lot of people to walk into
a building or a community offaith that is not their own,
whether that be a synagogue, amosque or a church.
(16:17):
You know that might be too bigof a step right.
So we are talking about verysmall steps and the easiest
thing I would say to start withis okay, what do you enjoy doing
, what activities or interestsdo you have that you could go
out to just the world and findcommunity?
So it's kind of like yourinterests, your passions are
(16:39):
what you start with and then,naturally, people are just the
byproduct.
There are diverse people thatare interested in an adult
kickball league or Pokemonconventions or a knitting club
at the library, which I'mtempted to go to try now,
because my library has one, sothere are a lot of little
(16:59):
pockets, when you look for them,of activity based things that
you can go do that again, justkind of naturally, that
diversity is going to find youbecause this world is full of
incredible and different peopleand that's something beautiful.
So just find what you'd like todo and then go and do that
somewhere different than whatyou've been doing it before.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
That is such, you know, like, sometimes like the
way to move forward is so simplethat it's complicated for
people.
Yeah, and I think that you know, using that word enjoyment, go
find something you genuinelyenjoy and see what diverse
communities are in that space.
Our nervous system actuallybecomes more regulated and open
(17:46):
when we are doing things weenjoy.
So our receptivity to thethings that may in the past have
made us anxious, in that moment, in that enjoyment, our nervous
system is already moreregulated than it would be if we
were like, okay, I'm puttingmyself out of my bubble into
this diverse community.
Enjoyment grounds us, you know.
(18:09):
So I think that's such a greatpiece of support is just start
with something that yougenuinely enjoy and see what
opportunities of diversity arein that space.
It's like an anchor of groundedsupport for you.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Absolutely.
And there's also this idea oflike.
When you find something thatyou're passionate about, you're
feeling like you're contributingto something that's greater
than you, you find a sense ofpurpose.
So, volunteer, work, inwhatever capacity that you can
do, it is also really importantbecause when people, when the
collective comes together andhas a shared sense of purpose,
(18:47):
that is where community thrives.
That is where you, as yourindividual self, feel important,
because you're not looking atan achievement.
You're not looking at just likewhat your resume says.
It is that people depend on youor you are important to that
community, and that's where alot of these relationships
really come together and thrivecommunity and that's where a lot
of these relationships reallycome together and thrive, and I
think that's a great point.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
You are part of the community and the community is
part of you.
That's a good way of saying it.
Yeah, I like that.
So that brings up kind of maybethe shadow side of how people
might step into community.
So how can individualsintentionally create or join
communities of diverse spaceswithout it feeling forced or
(19:30):
like performative, like look atme, I'm doing this, that, and
the other Like how do we reallydo that intentionally?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, and I think that word right there intention,
intentionally is really what itcomes down to is really looking
at yourself, doing someself-reflection, maybe somealing
, and maybe talking to yourtherapist about what are your
intentions with seeking this out, you know.
So something that you can justkind of say to yourself as a
little reminder is like am Ilooking to learn or am I looking
(19:58):
to earn?
Okay, so, are you coming intothis space with open eyes, open
heart, looking to learnsomething from a different group
of people or just, you know,have a different experience than
your everyday life, or are youlooking to earn validation?
Are you looking to earn likeson Instagram, like we got to
talk about that too Are youlooking to earn admiration?
(20:21):
So I would ask myself okay, ifI never told a single soul about
this activity that I'm going togo do with this group of people
that I'm becoming friends with,if I never told a single soul,
didn't post it on Instagram orbrag about it, you know, in a
seminar, all these things, wouldI still do it?
Would I still feel like I ambeing fulfilled and getting and
(20:45):
having a sense of purpose in it?
Or am I really looking for thatexternal validation?
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, yeah, really holding space for that self
reflection and that selfawareness is so key as you go
into spaces and sometimes we'renot really conscious that that
might be something that's beingprojected in a stepping into
communities, you know, and so wecan stop and be like, wait a
minute.
I have been posting this a loton the social media, so, like,
is this really coming from anintentional place or have I let
(21:14):
something supersede that?
So I think that's a great pointLearn versus earn.
I love it.
Is there anything else you feellike is important to kind of
share with our listeners and ourviewers about building that
community, getting out of yourbubble?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I think that it is.
If something I could just likeproclaim to the world is, when
you have diverse friendships,diverse relationships, you
suddenly have access to a wealthof knowledge and resources that
you can't get when you're onlyin your bubble.
So when we're talking abouttrauma, and then I immediately
think of, like grief, the waythat people grieve, the way that
(21:54):
people heal, is so incrediblycomplex and there's not a one
size fits all option.
Every therapist will tell youthat, or should tell you that,
that there's not one right wayto do it.
And so when we are have accessto all these different kinds of
people, we have access to theirtools, to their ideas, and, you
know, someone from just adifferent life experience can
(22:15):
speak to what you're goingthrough in a different way than
your friend that you've knownfor 10 years.
Right, and we need that ashumans, I think, to know okay,
what, what fits authenticallywith me, not just because it's
what I'm used to, but becausethere's something about it that
speaks to us and I think that itjust brings like this human
collective experience togetherin a really beautiful way.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Oh my gosh, what a great point.
And I think sometimes when wehave communities that are too
bubble-like and we mayexperience something that they
haven't experienced and it makesthem uncomfortable, having more
diverse community gives uspermission to have that
experience unjudged and in asafer place.
And I think that point aboutgrief is so relevant that
(23:03):
sometimes when our bubble is toosmall, they're really
uncomfortable in that grief.
But other cultures and otheryou know communities understand
that that level of grief griefmaybe because they have
different experiences ordifferent cultural practices
around it.
So I think that's such such agood point of having wider
community gives us permission tohave a human experience, even
(23:25):
if it's different than ourlittle bubble.
You know Exactly so well, I lovethis conversation.
I think it's so relevant tokind of where we are in our
world and how easy it is to findpeople that you can just easily
go to and build this bubblearound, because there's such,
(23:45):
you know, polarizing things thatgo on in politics and beliefs
and all the things.
And really one of our greatestgifts is the ability to hold
space and keep perspectivearound different types of
communities and it helps us bementally flexible, it helps grow
our comfort zone and ultimatelythat's what supports us in our
most significant mental health.
(24:06):
You know experiences throughthis, so anything else?
you'd like to share?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You know, I would just tell people get into your
stretch zone, go grow, don'tjust stay in your bubble.
Get out of your bubble.
Even if it's just one tinything that you can do this week,
where can you get into thatthat yellow zone, that stretch
zone that we talked about, andsee kind of where it goes from
there?
So go do something that youenjoy, go meet new people, go
look at faith communities.
You know, faith communitiesreally is a place where, just
(24:34):
naturally, people of, say,different ages we're talking
about that intergenerationalthing.
Faith communities, communitycenters, libraries, things that
are community-based really are agood starting point.
And go, go get you a Glenda.
Or, if you're a Glenda, go getyou a Lauren.
I think everyone needs a Glendain their their life.
(24:55):
I really truly do.
And again, if you are a Glendaand you're listening to this, go
find you a Lauren, a youngerperson, a Christine to you know,
share that wisdom, that wisdomwith and just seek out that
connection.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, and I think I think a great point to add to
that is we have to remember notall families look the same, you
know.
Not all families have an elderthat you know they can go to for
mentoring.
Not all families have childrento pass along.
You know wisdom and so you knowour communities are an
extension of our sense of family.
So I'm going to go sign up, I'mready.
(25:33):
Great, thank you, lauren.
So much for like joining thepodcast today and I have to say
to all of our listeners andviewers Lauren is awesome.
She is such a great therapistand, as you can see, you know,
she's so eloquent and articulatein how she shares her own
wisdom.
So if you would like to workwith her, if you would like to
(25:53):
invite her to some speakingengagements, we will add a link
to the website at the bottom ofher bio and you are more than
welcome to reach out and see howyou and Lauren can partner.
Reach out and see how you andLauren can partner.
Thanks for joining today,lauren.
Thank you for coming on.
As always, I love getting tohear all of your wisdom and all
that you have to share, and welook forward to having you again
(26:14):
next time.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Great, Thank you so much, christine.
I really appreciate it.
You're welcome, thank you,bye-bye guys, bye.
Hello and welcome to In Still we Rise.
I'm your host, christine Seidel, and today we have licensed
professional counselor LaurenWeiss joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome, Lauren.
Hey, thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm super excited to be hereand dive into this topic.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah, and actually Lauren is a bit of a veteran
when it comes to podcasts, so wewill have to link some of the
other podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I was just thinking.
I was like, oh, this is not herfirst rodeo.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
This will be my little side gig.
This will be great.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Exactly.
Well, before we jump intotoday's topic, I want to read a
little information about Laurenso you can know a little bit of
her background.
So, to begin, lauren Bice is alicensed professional counselor
who specializes in working withchildren, adolescents and their
families.
With a warm and authenticapproach, she helps clients
navigate challenges such asanxiety, emotional dysregulation
(00:57):
and social skills through theuse of art, play and whatever
else a kid or teen may need.
She has a unique perspective oncommunity well-being, gained
from her passion from bringingmental health insights to both
schools and faith communities.
Her experience with familysystems and community dynamics
makes her the perfect person todiscuss how intentionally
(01:17):
building intergenerational anddiverse friendships can build
and lead to greater empathy,personal growth and a stronger
sense of belonging.
Welcome, lauren.
That is such a perfect topicand I love that you put in that
you like to use art and play,because I think we might
actually experience a little ofthat today.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Oh goodness, I said I use it.
I didn't say I was good at itbut, yes, awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Well, thanks for being on here and we are, as we
heard a little bit in the bio,going to talk about getting out
of your bubble and buildingdiverse communities.
So, to begin, what does thateven mean?
You know what are diversecommunities?
Why is that important?
You know, whenever we hear thatdiverse communities, we usually
think of like race or gender.
But like, what does that evenmean?
(02:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And, of course, race and gender can certainly be an
aspect of diversity, and it's avery important one, but there's
a lot of other aspects ofdiversity that might not be the
first thing that comes to yourmind.
So we're talking aboutdifferences in age.
That's why I mentioned theintergenerational friendships.
It might be socioeconomicstatus, it could be religious
views, it could be differencesin abilities and disabilities.
(02:29):
Lots of different things areincluded in the word diversity.
So, just to be clear, obviously, diversity when it comes to
race, ethnicity very important,that's definitely an aspect of
this, but don't think thatthat's the only thing that this
topic is relative to.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Very true, absolutely so.
When we look at diversecommunities, when we look at our
own communities that areexisting within our lives, why
is making it and building it tobe wider and more inclusive of
those that are different from usso important?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
more inclusive of those that are different from us
.
So important?
Yeah, absolutely so.
It really is human nature tostick with what you know, who
you know, and to be at ahomogenous group of people that
look like you, sound like you,all of these things.
And again, while that is maybenatural, it is not always the
best for our mental health, forour cognitive flexibility, for
our outlooks on life.
So what studies have found isthat when you really restrict
(03:27):
your bubble right, you stayaround your group of people.
It kind of develops somethingcalled an echo chamber.
So that is when your biases,your beliefs, are constantly
being validated, reinforced.
You don't have to facechallenges, opposing views,
differences, the unknown, andit's just like cool, I'm going
(03:48):
to stay in my little bubble.
And so then, when things areoutside of what you believe,
outside of your normal, or justare different and unknown, that
creates a big sense of anxiety,fear, defensiveness, and so
getting out of your bubble,having more experiences that
challenge you and stress you,and learning to roll with those,
(04:09):
it creates cognitiveflexibility.
So that's your ability to gothrough new events, take on new
challenges, without the hugespike of anxiety or
defensiveness where we shut down.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I think we can.
We can see that in our culture,how, like even just a
difference in belief or you know, the the big no-no topics like
politics, yep, when we, whenwe're confronted with somebody
who believes or has differentperspectives from us, there's
this automatic sense of likedefense or like anxiety around
that.
So what you're saying is, as weexpose ourselves and immerse
(04:47):
ourselves into that diversity of, of, of everything that makes
us different and unique, we'restretching ourselves to not have
that automatic response in thein those moments.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Exactly.
It really, I think, comes downto you know, we're not trying to
create a like a.
You have to now change all thatyou believe.
You have to move away from whatyou were taught.
That's not necessarily whatthis is about.
This is about recognizing thatit doesn't have to be an us
versus them.
It doesn't have to be youversus other people.
(05:22):
Right, it can be coexisting, itcan be collaborating, it can be
a lot of things that are morepeaceful without you necessarily
.
Again, we're not sitting heresaying, hey, change everything
you've ever believed but you canhave what you believe and not
be biased against other groupsof people.
You can have what you believeand still respect and have
(05:42):
empathy for these other groups.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
That's a great point.
Now I know you specificallyreally like to champion
intergenerational diversitywithin you know relationships
and friendships.
So tell me, what's the benefitof intergenerational?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yes, absolutely.
So this, this is a personalthing of mine.
Back when I moved to a new cityfor for grad school, for
counseling school, I was like,well, who do I know in this city
, who can I maybe live with?
Cause I didn't want to have totry to work a full-time job and
go to school full-time.
So I ended up meeting this ladynamed Glenda.
(06:20):
I got her permission to talkabout our story.
She is really truly like thenearest and dearest person to my
heart.
So what started out is like, oh,I'll just be here for like a
year, maybe two, turned intofive because our relationship.
I know I lived with her until Igot married, but that is
because our relationship becamejust foundational for me and for
(06:40):
her.
So we went through COVIDtogether, which I don't know how
yeah, I don't know how eitherone of us really would have
survived without the otherperson.
That was very, very big for us.
And people all the time when Itell them, yeah, I live with
this.
You know, now she's, she's 80,now you know this 80 year old
friend of mine, they're like, oh, you must be so good for her,
(07:03):
you must help so much.
And I would be like, well, yeah, I do, but no one really
understands the impact that shehas been able to have on me and
the things that I have gottenfrom her, and so it is not a one
way street.
And so, yeah, I championintergenerational friendships
and encouraging young people andolder people to come together
(07:23):
in new ways and coexist andlearn from one another, because
it is very, very good, justmental health wise, all the way
around across generations.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I think that's such a cultural thing that needs to be
reexamined is that once wereach a certain age, we really
don't have anything to offer thecommunity, and you know we
treat our older community as if,like, they need to be cared for
.
So can you give me someexamples of like?
(07:53):
What did you gain in thatrelationship?
What did you grow and learnfrom Ms Glenda?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Besides lots of baking tips and lots of
gardening tips.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I tell people maybe I need to hang out with her for a
little while, Cause I'm sureI'm in that area.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Well, I got.
I got a bunch of old ladyhobbies, which was honestly
wonderful.
I know way more about birdsthan I ever thought I would, but
I love it and I guess, bigpicture, some things that I got
from her was a lot ofperspective.
You know, I'm, you know, ayounger person, so I don't have
the life experience that shedoes.
She has seen and gone throughway more than I have, so when
(08:34):
things are really crushing to meor seem really big and
insurmountable, she could bevery validating about like yeah,
I went through that or I wentthrough something similar and I
came out on the other side, youknow.
So her perspective, her wisdom,um, and her resilience to again
to see somebody who has gonethrough challenges in life and
(08:57):
is still just one of thehappiest, sweetest people I know
, was this awakening of like,wow, like I can be that one day.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, and I think that's so important, like, lived
experience is such great wisdomand what we experience in one
season of life somebody else hasnavigated through and somebody
has learned from that, and as weopen up our community to find
those people that have more lifeexperience than ourselves, we
(09:29):
probably will find some wisdomthere, if they too, have been
rooted in, you know, opening uptheir perspective to things.
So I think that's somethingthat, as a culture, you know, we
really move towards shiftinginto the value of people's lived
experiences and what value andrichness they bring.
So now, how might the lack ofdiversity really, you know,
(09:56):
impact somebody?
You know how can thatcontribute to mental health
struggles or challenges?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Oh, absolutely so, one.
It really does create a senseof isolation.
Even if you have your group,who looks like you, sounds like
you, talks like you, all thesethings, when you stay in your
bubble the outside world becomeslike a no, no, like a
restriction, right, and so webecome isolated because there's
not enough room for a variancein thought and belief and style
(10:24):
and so it's like, okay, well,now I have to kind of fit into
this mold.
And another thing is when yoursense of identity and your
validation comes from one source, one people, what happens when
that becomes threatened?
Right, if you are, youridentity is rooted in one group,
one belief, one style of things.
(10:45):
Anything that challenges that isgoing to shake you to your core
and you're not resilient enoughfor that if you don't have
those outside resources.
So we've got isolation, we'vegot that.
We've got obviously bias, right, Like we all are, we all have
biases.
But then there are dangerousbiases, like really harmful
biases that exist and those justget reinforced.
(11:06):
And again we can point back to,like that fear and
defensiveness thing, again too,of experiencing more anxiety,
more fear when you stay in yourbubble, you don't get out and
and challenge yourself andchallenge your ways of thinking.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I think that's a really good point and I think
that you know, to some extentthere may even be, you know, a
sense of detachment from self.
You know, like, if your bubbleis so rooted in their core
beliefs or their coreconnections, connections that
dissenting from that would be athreat to your sense of
(11:44):
belonging, how authentic can youreally be with yourself if you
do maybe want to challenge thatbelief or you do want to
challenge that bias, like youknow how much resilience, like
you said, do you have toactually confront the threat of
disconnect or a threat, threatof being abandoned or rejected
(12:06):
from that community, and ifthat's a real threat, if there
isn't enough diversity, thenthat there may be a place where
people start detaching fromthemselves and they really can't
, you know, process thingsauthentically.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think some one thing to keep
in mind that maybe people don'tthink about is when you stay in
your bubble, your bubble isgoing to get smaller, right?
So you're not going to have thesame bubble throughout your
lifetime, and so if you're notactively getting out of your
bubble, stretching it, then it'sgoing to get smaller.
And this is where I'm going tointroduce the arts and crafts
(12:39):
that you referenced earlier inthe video.
I did not even attempt to getperfectly circular things,
because you know what, and Iwork with kids and maybe I cut,
like them too, and it's allabout embracing imperfection.
So this is my very firstattempt at a model called the
comfort, stretch and panic zones.
This is by Ryan and Markova.
(13:02):
We can maybe link somethingdown below as a resource.
So here we go.
I don't know if everyone cansee it.
So we've got inner circle thisbig green dot with the C.
This stands for our comfortzone.
So when we're talking about ourbubble, we're talking about our
comfort zone, right?
This is where you feel renewed,safe, relaxed, comfortable, all
those things.
Then we get a little bitfurther outside and we've got
(13:23):
the stretch zone.
So this is the yellow zone,right?
So this is where we feelexcited or nervous or, as I tell
my kids, nervous-sided isdefinitely a word, it's
definitely an emotion.
This is where we get stretchedand challenged.
A word, it's definitely anemotion.
This is where we get stretchedand challenged and this is where
we grow.
We like to spend time in thisyellow section.
And then we have the red zone, apanic zone.
(13:44):
This is where we are fearful,defensive, shutting down.
So when we get into this redzone, then obviously our
instinct is to come back intothat green zone, and that's
something that we have to do,and this is something we
experience daily.
So kind of what happens, though, when we do not embrace diverse
friendships, when we stay inour bubble, is.
(14:05):
Here's my second option ourlittle green zone, our comfort
zone, gets a lot smaller, so youhave less room to move because
you're not stretching yourself,and so, look, the red is so much
bigger.
There's more things that aregoing to send you into that
panic zone, but when we dostretch ourselves, when we exist
in this stretch zone, becausewhenever we're in the stretch
(14:28):
zone, eventually those things inour stretch zone are going to
move to the green zone.
Eventually, those things thatwere once stretching us are now
comfortable, and so we end uphaving a much bigger green
circle, a much bigger comfortzone, and we can exist in a much
more rich space, a much moreauthentic and rich space, where
(14:49):
we're not constantly bumping upagainst the edges of our comfort
zone and constantly beingthrown into a stretch or a panic
zone.
So this is my little, sadly notvery artistic vision.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, that's a great visual and I think that, like,
especially working with kids,you know, we we regularly tell
children, we tell their parents,like, allow your children to be
uncomfortable, allow yourchildren to sit in the
discomfort and the difficulty ofsomething that is new and
different and challenging, andwe have to remember we need to
do that too.
Like that is still somethingthat we need to experience as
(15:25):
adults, and community isdefinitely something that it
feels difficult to step into newspaces because of that,
sometimes fear of beingperceived or fear of lack of
similarities, you know, whichreally ends up kind of becoming
a self thing.
So, therapeutically, how wouldyou work with somebody who may
(15:46):
be really resistant or hesitantto step into spaces of diversity
or put themselves out there andget out of their bubble?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, absolutely so one.
I think when we're talkingabout stepping into spaces of
diversity, people automaticallygo to like really big changes
and really big steps.
You know, it is not realisticfor a lot of people to walk into
a building or a community offaith that is not their own,
whether that be a synagogue, amosque or a church.
(16:17):
You know that might be too bigof a step right.
So we are talking about verysmall steps and the easiest
thing I would say to start withis okay, what do you enjoy doing
, what activities or interestsdo you have that you could go
out to just the world and findcommunity?
So it's kind of like yourinterests, your passions are
(16:39):
what you start with and then,naturally, people are just the
byproduct.
There are diverse people thatare interested in an adult
kickball league or Pokemonconventions or a knitting club
at the library, which I'mtempted to go to try now,
because my library has one, sothere are a lot of little
(16:59):
pockets, when you look for them,of activity based things that
you can go do that again, justkind of naturally, that
diversity is going to find youbecause this world is full of
incredible and different peopleand that's something beautiful.
So just find what you'd like todo and then go and do that
somewhere different than whatyou've been doing it before.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
That is such, you know, like, sometimes like the
way to move forward is so simplethat it's complicated for
people.
Yeah, and I think that you know, using that word enjoyment, go
find something you genuinelyenjoy and see what diverse
communities are in that space.
Our nervous system actuallybecomes more regulated and open
(17:46):
when we are doing things weenjoy.
So our receptivity to thethings that may in the past have
made us anxious, in that moment, in that enjoyment, our nervous
system is already moreregulated than it would be if we
were like, okay, I'm puttingmyself out of my bubble into
this diverse community.
Enjoyment grounds us, you know.
(18:09):
So I think that's such a greatpiece of support is just start
with something that yougenuinely enjoy and see what
opportunities of diversity arein that space.
It's like an anchor of groundedsupport for you.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Absolutely.
And there's also this idea oflike.
When you find something thatyou're passionate about, you're
feeling like you're contributingto something that's greater
than you, you find a sense ofpurpose.
So, volunteer, work, inwhatever capacity that you can
do, it is also really importantbecause when people, when the
collective comes together andhas a shared sense of purpose,
(18:47):
that is where community thrives.
That is where you, as yourindividual self, feel important,
because you're not looking atan achievement.
You're not looking at just likewhat your resume says.
It is that people depend on youor you are important to that
community, and that's where alot of these relationships
really come together and thrivecommunity and that's where a lot
of these relationships reallycome together and thrive, and I
think that's a great point.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
You are part of the community and the community is
part of you.
That's a good way of saying it.
Yeah, I like that.
So that brings up kind of maybethe shadow side of how people
might step into community.
So how can individualsintentionally create or join
communities of diverse spaceswithout it feeling forced or
(19:30):
like performative, like look atme, I'm doing this, that, and
the other Like how do we reallydo that intentionally?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, and I think that word right there intention,
intentionally is really what itcomes down to is really looking
at yourself, doing someself-reflection, maybe somealing
, and maybe talking to yourtherapist about what are your
intentions with seeking this out, you know.
So something that you can justkind of say to yourself as a
little reminder is like am Ilooking to learn or am I looking
(19:58):
to earn?
Okay, so, are you coming intothis space with open eyes, open
heart, looking to learnsomething from a different group
of people or just, you know,have a different experience than
your everyday life, or are youlooking to earn validation?
Are you looking to earn likeson Instagram, like we got to
talk about that too Are youlooking to earn admiration?
(20:21):
So I would ask myself okay, ifI never told a single soul about
this activity that I'm going togo do with this group of people
that I'm becoming friends with,if I never told a single soul,
didn't post it on Instagram orbrag about it, you know, in a
seminar, all these things, wouldI still do it?
Would I still feel like I ambeing fulfilled and getting and
(20:45):
having a sense of purpose in it?
Or am I really looking for thatexternal validation?
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, yeah, really holding space for that self
reflection and that selfawareness is so key as you go
into spaces and sometimes we'renot really conscious that that
might be something that's beingprojected in a stepping into
communities, you know, and so wecan stop and be like, wait a
minute.
I have been posting this a loton the social media, so, like,
is this really coming from anintentional place or have I let
(21:14):
something supersede that?
So I think that's a great pointLearn versus earn.
I love it.
Is there anything else you feellike is important to kind of
share with our listeners and ourviewers about building that
community, getting out of yourbubble?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I think that it is.
If something I could just likeproclaim to the world is, when
you have diverse friendships,diverse relationships, you
suddenly have access to a wealthof knowledge and resources that
you can't get when you're onlyin your bubble.
So when we're talking abouttrauma, and then I immediately
think of, like grief, the waythat people grieve, the way that
(21:54):
people heal, is so incrediblycomplex and there's not a one
size fits all option.
Every therapist will tell youthat, or should tell you that,
that there's not one right wayto do it.
And so when we are have accessto all these different kinds of
people, we have access to theirtools, to their ideas, and, you
know, someone from just adifferent life experience can
(22:15):
speak to what you're goingthrough in a different way than
your friend that you've knownfor 10 years.
Right, and we need that ashumans, I think, to know okay,
what, what fits authenticallywith me, not just because it's
what I'm used to, but becausethere's something about it that
speaks to us and I think that itjust brings like this human
collective experience togetherin a really beautiful way.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Oh my gosh, what a great point.
And I think sometimes when wehave communities that are too
bubble-like and we mayexperience something that they
haven't experienced and it makesthem uncomfortable, having more
diverse community gives uspermission to have that
experience unjudged and in asafer place.
And I think that point aboutgrief is so relevant that
(23:03):
sometimes when our bubble is toosmall, they're really
uncomfortable in that grief.
But other cultures and otheryou know communities understand
that that level of grief griefmaybe because they have
different experiences ordifferent cultural practices
around it.
So I think that's such such agood point of having wider
community gives us permission tohave a human experience, even
(23:25):
if it's different than ourlittle bubble.
You know Exactly so well, I lovethis conversation.
I think it's so relevant tokind of where we are in our
world and how easy it is to findpeople that you can just easily
go to and build this bubblearound, because there's such,
(23:45):
you know, polarizing things thatgo on in politics and beliefs
and all the things.
And really one of our greatestgifts is the ability to hold
space and keep perspectivearound different types of
communities and it helps us bementally flexible, it helps grow
our comfort zone and ultimatelythat's what supports us in our
most significant mental health.
(24:06):
You know experiences throughthis, so anything else?
you'd like to share?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You know, I would just tell people get into your
stretch zone, go grow, don'tjust stay in your bubble.
Get out of your bubble.
Even if it's just one tinything that you can do this week,
where can you get into thatthat yellow zone, that stretch
zone that we talked about, andsee kind of where it goes from
there?
So go do something that youenjoy, go meet new people, go
look at faith communities.
You know, faith communitiesreally is a place where, just
(24:34):
naturally, people of, say,different ages we're talking
about that intergenerationalthing.
Faith communities, communitycenters, libraries, things that
are community-based really are agood starting point.
And go, go get you a Glenda.
Or, if you're a Glenda, go getyou a Lauren.
I think everyone needs a Glendain their their life.
(24:55):
I really truly do.
And again, if you are a Glendaand you're listening to this, go
find you a Lauren, a youngerperson, a Christine to you know,
share that wisdom, that wisdomwith and just seek out that
connection.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, and I think I think a great point to add to
that is we have to remember notall families look the same, you
know.
Not all families have an elderthat you know they can go to for
mentoring.
Not all families have childrento pass along.
You know wisdom and so you knowour communities are an
extension of our sense of family.
So I'm going to go sign up, I'mready.
(25:33):
Great, thank you, lauren.
So much for like joining thepodcast today and I have to say
to all of our listeners andviewers Lauren is awesome.
She is such a great therapistand, as you can see, you know,
she's so eloquent and articulatein how she shares her own
wisdom.
So if you would like to workwith her, if you would like to
(25:53):
invite her to some speakingengagements, we will add a link
to the website at the bottom ofher bio and you are more than
welcome to reach out and see howyou and Lauren can partner.
Reach out and see how you andLauren can partner.
Thanks for joining today,lauren.
Thank you for coming on.
As always, I love getting tohear all of your wisdom and all
that you have to share, and welook forward to having you again
(26:14):
next time.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Great, Thank you so much, christine.
I really appreciate it.
You're welcome, thank you,bye-bye guys, bye.
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