April 1, 2025 • 30 mins
Dating after loss creates a turbulent emotional landscape. In this candid conversation, returning guest John Polo and I explore the fears, hopes, and practical realities of seeking new connections after being widowed.
Our discussion reveals why dating feels so terrifying—from worries about becoming a caretaker again to navigating unfamiliar dating apps decades after last being single. John offers wisdom drawn from his own journey and his work coaching grieving individuals through relationship transitions: "You can dip your toe in the pool, say 'I'm not ready,' and take it back out."
For the first time publicly, I share my evolving perspective on dating seven years after losing my husband. While previously adamant about never dating again, I've begun reconsidering what companionship might look like in this chapter of life. This shift highlights an important truth about grief—our needs and readiness change over time in ways we can't always predict.
The conversation extends beyond romantic partnerships to the profound importance of human connection in all forms. John shares beautiful stories of creating friendships through simple conversations with strangers, reminding us that we're "one hello, one smile away from a new friend, a new love."
Whether you're considering dating, helping someone who is, or simply curious about life after devastating loss, this episode offers practical guidance for moving forward with both courage and self-compassion. The path forward isn't about replacing what was lost, but about honoring your journey while remaining open to life's continuing possibilities.
Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com
Facebook: As I Live and Grieve
Instagram: @asiliveandgrieve
YouTube: asiliveandgrieve
TikTok: @asiliveandgrieve
To Reach John:
Email: john@johnpolocoaching.com
Website: johnpolocoaching.com
Credits:
Music by Kevin MacLeod
Copyright 2020, by As I Live and Grieve
The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to as I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells
the truth about how hard thisis.
We're glad you joined us today.
We know how hard it is to losesomeone you love and how
well-intentioned friends andfamily try so hard to comfort us
.
We created this podcast toprovide you with comfort,
knowledge and support.
We are grief advocates, notprofessionals, not licensed
(00:22):
therapists.
We are you.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hi everybody.
Not professionals, Not licensedtherapists.
We are.
You Pick at that y'all and thatyonder, but truly I'm still a
Yankee.
Okay, so my apologies to theSouth.
Today we have a repeat guest,and I love it when guests come
(00:53):
back, because it's like catchinga friend that you haven't seen
for a while, and today's noexception.
With us today is John Polo.
Welcome back, John.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Good to see you, my friend, we are friends.
It's good to see you.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We are friends.
It's good to see you.
We are.
In fact, we actually met faceto face twice now, and that was
a real treat as well.
So today we're going to revisita topic that seems to get a lot
of interest when I look at theanalytics of our different
episodes and everything.
We've talked about dating andrepartnering, although I didn't
know that word repartnering atthe time.
We talked about dating andrepartnering although I didn't
(01:24):
know that word, repartnering atthe time.
We talked about dating a coupleof times before I guess, but
it's been a long time and thereseem to be a lot of people
interested in this topic.
I'm going to chalk that up tothings being the way they are in
the world.
It's difficult to kind ofabsorb all the news that's
really not fit to print whenyou're totally by yourself.
(01:46):
So I think there's this need,this urgency if you will, to
find someone to share the burdenwith you Would you agree?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, I mean absolutely.
I think that and I also think,just like human loneliness is
not talked about enough.
We live in a world of now Ithink it's 8 billion people I
think we've crossed that, Ithink it's 8 billion now and
human loneliness is a hugeproblem, and I'm not just
talking about grief or widowedpeople, just we, when we were
(02:15):
born, I always say we wereprogrammed to desire family,
friends, community and romanticlove, friends, community and
romantic love.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Right, right.
So why is the topic of datingthen so daunting?
I know why.
For me it would be, and you'veheard me say on air that I'm not
interested in dating.
But you know what Time goes byand my brain is starting to feel
a little bit differently on thetopic.
Wow, yeah, I know, I knew you'dbe amazed with that.
(02:44):
That's news, full disclosurefor me.
That's not to say that I wouldever entertain marrying again,
but I will admit that, eventhough I live with my daughter,
stephanie and her husband andtwo adult boys now, and it's a
busy, active household and Ilove them all very much, when I
close that door to my room atnight, I realize, gee, it'd be
(03:04):
nice to have somebody to talk tothem all very much.
When I closed that door to myroom at night, I realized, gee,
it'd be nice to have somebody totalk to at the very least.
Yet that idea of datingterrifies me.
Why do you suppose that is?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Because it's terrifying.
If we're just going to look atwidowed people for a moment
which you and I are both widowedpeople, I mean, we thought we
were never going to have toenter the dating world ever
again.
It was done.
We found our person and formost people most of my clients
(03:35):
are women 50 and above andhonestly, I think most are
probably in their 60s and I havea large number in their 70s
they have not dated in 40 or 50years, right, right, and the
world?
It is a different world withonline dating and scammers.
And that's not even to talkabout our own interpersonal
(03:57):
thoughts, emotions, fear, guilt,self-esteem issues.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, oh, it could be daunting.
Yeah, it is.
It's terrifying.
It's terrifying, yet there aremany who start out and dip their
toes in it.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Well, and that's the thing I always say when people
ask me like John, how do I knowif I'm ready, one of the things
I say is well, you're asking meif you might be ready, right,
and usually it's like at aworkshop I'm doing, or it's a
client that has brought up theconversation.
So that's an indicator to methat we are maybe a little bit
closer than we think.
And I love that you said dipyour toe in it, because what I
(04:31):
always say to people is like youare not signing a contract with
you know the dating gods, therelationship gods, that you are
going to stay in that datingpool forever.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You can literally dip your toe in the pool, say, oh,
I'm not ready for this, take itback off.
Yeah, and I think you know.
For me, the things right nowthat I consider daunting,
terrifying things that I reallydon't want to experience again,
far outweigh what I would takeas positive outcomes.
Yet I know that's not realistic.
I know it's not realistic justbecause I remember what I had
with Tom.
Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
So I'm going to play coach for a second.
I know you're not going to askme what it's you.
I'm going to take over theinterview for a second.
Tell me about if you're willingand, if not, say pass, it's
your podcast, not mine.
Like, what are the fears thatare so daunting?
And then like in your mind,what are the positives?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Okay, I'm happy to be very candid with you and with
our listeners because I reallydon't think I'm all alone in
this.
My first big number one fear isI don't want to go through the
eight months that I went throughwith Tom while he was ill with
a brain tumor.
I don't know if I can do thatagain.
That's number one.
(05:44):
Number two is that initialmoving from a cup of coffee and
conversation to that affection,hand-holding, public display of
affection type thing.
And number three would beintroducing to family and or
friends that I might meet, yeah,those.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So I mean the problem with talking about dating is we
could talk about it for 50hours Fascinating, that's why
you keep coming back, right.
I'm going to say a couple things.
The first is kind of just tovalidate there are a lot of
reason and again, if we're justlooking at widowed people for a
second why a widowed personmight be fearful to go back out
(06:21):
into the dating world.
There are a lot of reasons Icover when I work with people on
this.
For me, the biggest fear I hadwas going through it again,
becoming a caretaker again.
It scared me so bad and, if I'mbeing honest, it scares me so
bad.
So that is absolutely a thing.
One of the things I do when Istart looking at that fear is I
(06:43):
look at the fear but I don'tstare at it.
I talk about this a lot with alot of different things in life.
We have to be careful whatwe're staring at.
We all stare at the person onFacebook who is talking about
their horrible dating experience.
We all stare at everyinsecurity we've ever had.
We all stare at oh my God, whatif I have to become a caretaker
(07:04):
again?
But we don't look over at theother side, which is all the
people who have found love againand all the awesomeness that we
as our own unique, amazing selfbring to the table, and all of
the beauty and amazement that Ihad with Michelle and if I could
go back in time, was it worthit?
(07:25):
Yes, it was.
So that's a huge fear,absolutely, I'll also just say
because, again, I could talkabout this all day.
So I have to rein myself in.
You know, for me personally,the first time I kissed a woman,
even the first time I wasintimate with a woman, that did
not mess me up emotionally, thefirst time a woman took my hand,
she took my hand and held it.
Oh, like we had we.
This was.
I think this might have been myfirst kiss after michelle
(07:47):
passed like a kiss and then,like 15 minutes later, we
started walking and she held myhand and that messed me up, that
messed you up, right, yeah,yeah yeah, so like it's weird
what our grief and our fear, andeven sometimes our guilt, will
do to us.
It's not necessarily as weexpect it to be right, right,
right.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And, of course, the very first thing I would say
when you tell your story andeverything is that yeah, but I'm
not as young as you are.
Okay, I would fully expectsomeone your age younger, even a
little bit older, to reallywant to have a partner, but in
all honesty, I don't know howlong I have left a partner.
(08:25):
But in all honesty, I don'tknow how long I have loved Now.
I'm not in my 90s certainly,but I am 74.
So with now a new diagnosisthat it could be at some point
substantial.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
So someone actually could wind up taking care of me.
Yeah, I think again, we don'thave enough of an open mind when
we think about everything inlife, including dating.
So one quick thought and thenI'm going to go to exactly what
you said.
I used to be like a verynegative person.
I wasn't a very hopeful personor optimistic person.
What actually made me a veryhopeful person, a very
(09:02):
optimistic person, is my work.
Now, that sounds crazy when youconsider that, when it comes to
the coaching, probably 90% of myclientele people in my groups
are widowed people.
That's made you hopeful.
That's so weird.
The reason it's made me hopefulis because I see people who,
like myself, who are in so muchhuman pain that they didn't even
want to be here anymore.
(09:22):
They're finding life again andlove again and their smile again
and peace again and all of that.
So it takes me back to thepoint.
I have so many clients in their60s and, yes, even in their 70s,
who found love again.
I have clients, you know, twoo'clock I'll be on the phone
with the client who's 72 yearsold and has found love again,
(09:51):
and at three o'clock I'll be onthe phone with a 34 year old
client who is still lookingright, right, and also as
somebody who has multiplesclerosis, yeah, the table could
flip.
Yeah, somebody you know, myfiancee ali like because I am
engaged, she could have to takecare of me, sure?
So anytime you go into any kindof partnership, there is that
dual risk.
Yeah, the last thing I'm gonnasay because I like when you talk
more than me, um, is I think wehave to open our mind up to,
like what it might look like.
We're not 28 years old anymore,right, like it could be that
(10:13):
you have a companion, a nonintimate companion.
It could be that you have, youknow, a boyfriend, even though
that weird that word is so weird, right, that's how weird.
He's been married who lives 20minutes away for the next 10
years.
So I think we need to open ourmind to what finding love means
at this point.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
All right, all right, I accept that.
I accept that.
So I know I've asked thisbefore on other episodes, but
where do you start?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
It's a great question In terms of finding someone.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, because online we all know how that goes.
I have to say that in anaverage day, I either will get
I'll get two to three requestsfor friend on Facebook from a
male who, when I check theirprofile, it doesn't exist and
they only have one photo intheir entire thing, yet they say
that they've been online for 20years.
(11:05):
So things that I am confidentare not honest, true people, or
an occasional email as well, soit makes me very gun shy well, I
think there's a couple things.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
I know there are so many horror stories of online
dating.
I know that, and I know there'sscammers out there.
And, yes, there are a lothorror stories of online dating.
I know that, and I know there'sscammers out there, and, yes,
there are a lot of idiots outthere.
Let's just be honest.
But there are a lot of amazingpeople too.
I remember a conversation I washaving with a client once and
she goes John, I want toconvince myself that everybody
online is just, you know, kindof an idiot, right, kind of a
(11:39):
scammer.
And I was like, okay, well, youwant to convince yourself of
that, why haven't you or whycan't you?
And she goes, because you and Iare online, right, I'm like,
exactly, there are good, amazingpeople on there.
So I'm always of the beliefthat if you want to try to find
something again, you don't haveto go online.
But are you meeting peopleorganically?
(11:59):
Because if you are somebody whoworks from home and really
never gets out of the house ormeets new people, then you might
want to dip your toe in theonline pool just to put yourself
out there more For people whoare outside of the home, at work
or in communities.
My biggest thing and I've beentalking about this for years,
(12:21):
but I see even more now that myfiance and Allie and I moved
from Illinois to California andwe have no community here.
We're trying to build communityis talk to people.
Oh yes, create conversations.
It is so easy.
You are truly one new friend,one new business opportunity,
(12:42):
one new love away when you justcreate a conversation and it can
be out of thin air.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah yeah, sometimes that does happen and I'm of the
type that works from home.
I don't really get out much.
In fact, now that AJ, myyounger grandson, is grown up
and ready to head off to college, he stopped playing soccer, so
I don't even get out to soccergames anymore, which
occasionally would put me infront of new people.
(13:09):
So for me, meeting someone inthe community is probably very,
very low chance.
So if you're looking online,how do you separate, how do you
decide that this person I'm notsure if they're real or not, but
you decide to trust somebody.
Yeah Well, I mean, I'm not sureif they're real or not, but you
decide to trust somebody.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah Well, I mean, I think it's good to have your
guard up online, right?
I don't think we should begiving our credit card
information or security numbersto anybody.
You know, I have a lot ofclients who wants to actually
have somebody's name.
They will do a background checkand I think that that's
perfectly fine.
You want to slow walk it, nodoubt about it.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
You definitely want to slow walk it.
I don't want to put any kind ofindividual labels on it, but
one of the things that reallyconcerns me is if you feel like
you're being love bombed, lovebombed, yes Right, probably an
indication that they're ascammer.
If you've been talking to themfor three months and they
absolutely will not get on thephone with you, or you've been
(14:07):
talking to them for four monthsand they absolutely cannot meet
for coffee ever, probably anindication that you should be a
little bit concerned.
Good points.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Good points.
Okay, Now here's one wacky offthe wall.
I'm just going to tell you astory, an occasion where I had
some fun, but this is really offthe wall.
I'm just going to tell you astory, an occasion where I had
some fun, but this is really offthe wall.
This is so net me, Stephanieand I were on our way to a
conference one weekend this ismore than a year ago and I was
looking at the agenda, thedifferent sessions and
(14:37):
everything, and there was asession on artificial
intelligence.
You know what's coming right?
I don't know.
I don't really know.
I know what it is, but I'venever experienced it.
So I downloaded it at ChatGPT,which was free, and I started to
just pose a question here andthere.
Well before you know it, I washaving a conversation with AI
(14:59):
and it was one of the funniestthings.
Stephanie and I were institches.
It actually got to the pointwhere we had to pull off the
road at a Starbucks to getsomething because she was having
a hard time driving.
We were laughing so hard and Ithought to myself how many
people out there are lonelyenough to have AI as a best
friend.
And does that work for people?
(15:19):
Boy listeners, you can't seeJohn's face, but he's really
thinking about what he's goingto say.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Cause cause.
So I actually just took it offmy website.
I took it off my website.
I might add it back on.
On my website.
I have a bunch of keynotes thatI offer, and one was about human
loneliness, and you were at thekeynote that I gave in Toronto,
so you heard the beginning.
Part of it talks about my ownstruggle with human loneliness,
and I'm not just talking aboutafter my wife died, I'm talking
(15:47):
about since I was 12 years old.
I don't want to tell anybodywho is struggling with human
loneliness what to do, but myown thought on that is ai is not
the way to go.
There are amazing, wonderfulhumans in this world, and if you
don't have them in your life, Iwant you to go out there and
(16:08):
try to find them.
And I know as, again, somebodywho struggled with human
loneliness, not just just forromantic connection but for
friendship, for community, atdifferent points in my life.
That is hard, it's hard, butit's also life changing once you
find it.
And one of the ways to find itI'm telling you it's not so
stupid, but it's true is go outin the world and create
conversation with people.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I read a great book years ago
and the title of the book wasNever Eat Lunch Alone.
I read a great book years agoand the title of the book was
Never Eat Lunch Alone.
Now it was focusing on theconcept of networking and how
you never know the person youmeet, how sometime later in life
you might reconnect with thembecause of a need you have or
they have.
But every time somebody makes acomment like go out and meet
(16:50):
people, I think of that book.
And it's true.
If you happen to be out, maybeyou're going to, maybe you're
going to take yourself out tobreakfast, because that's what
you and your spouse used to doand you're just going to be.
You're going to be daring.
This is a challenge.
Now I'm going to go out and I'mgoing to have breakfast by
myself, engage in conversationwith the people around you, or,
(17:12):
if someone is sitting bythemselves and the restaurant is
very, very crowded, maybe justsay would you mind if I shared a
table?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
So 100%.
I could talk about this all day.
I'll give you one story here.
So my fiance, ali, and I, wherewe moved in California, it's a
completely walkable town.
We don't even have cars andevery morning we walk about 25
minutes to this little cafewhere we get our breakfast and
our coffee and for about maybefive or six days straight, we
(17:40):
saw a woman there every daysitting outside reading a book
and she looked like just likeone of the kindest humans that
you've ever laid eyes on.
So maybe four or five days ago,as we were walking by, we were
walking in and she was alreadythere.
I introduced myself and Allieintroduced herself and we
started a little bit of aconversation.
Why to tell she was widowed Ijust know I have that radar
(18:02):
Right and that conversation cameup, et cetera, et cetera, and I
said you know, maybe we can,you know you can join us one day
, I know you like to read, butmaybe you can join us one day
and we'll have breakfast, andshe was all excited about it.
Okay, so a couple days later wesee her again we hadn't set up
the breakfast date yet and westart talking about the book
she's reading and it's somethingthat Allie and I have an
interest in.
So we sat down and we talkedfor 20 minutes and now next
(18:25):
weekend we have a breakfast datewith her.
She is I don't know how old I'mgonna like late 60s, 70s maybe.
But again like we now metsomebody in our community who,
by the way, I share a bond withbecause we're widowed.
We are on the same page, wehave a lot of like mindedness.
Is that a thing?
Mutual interest?
We have made a friend.
I'm 40, allie is 31.
(18:46):
And we have made a friend thatcould be our mom or our grandma,
and all I did was introducemyself.
And I know it may sound weird,but, as somebody who has
struggled so much with humanlowlands, I used to be that
person taking myself out tobreakfast or to lunch or for
coffee, hoping that somebodywould talk to me because I
needed more people in my life.
(19:07):
And then one day I realized, oh, if I want more people in my
life, if I want to try to findlove again, if I want more
community, why don't I starttalking to people?
Why am I waiting?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Right.
So let me ask you a questionthen.
So when somebody says am Iready for dating, is it possible
that what they're reallylooking for whether it may be
dating, but what they really maybe looking for is just more
friends, all those friends youlose sometimes, like you say
yourself I mean, this isn'tanybody, you're going to date.
Yet you have a new friend, andone that will occupy some time,
(19:42):
someone you can sit and talkwith, chat here and there.
I mean I'd be okay with that.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, after my wife diedsorry, I'm the king of stories,
that's okay.
No, that's fine.
So about two or three weeksafter my wife died I was
supposed to meet an old highschool friend for dinner,
completely 100 million percentplatonic.
I was supposed to meet Jennafor dinner and Jenna and I we
knew each other in high school.
We hung out in the same groupbut we were never super tight.
(20:07):
So as I'm driving to therestaurant she texts me hey, my
sister is going to join us and Iwas so annoyed because I'm
thinking like I don't have thecapacity to deal with anybody
else right now, like I justwanted to go and have some food
with you.
So I was so annoyed.
I get there and her sister and Ihit it off, again strictly
platonic, 100 million percent.
And we became really really,really close friends.
(20:30):
For a couple of years.
She again it was 100 millionpercent platonic friends.
For a couple years.
She again it was a hundredmillion percent platonic.
There was no interest eitherway.
That did not fill any type ofromantic connection, romantic
desire for me throughout theyears.
But man did it fill some ofthat need for friendship and for
community.
And for me as a straight man Iso miss, just like going to
(20:55):
dinner or having coffee or alaugh with someone of the
opposite sex, and that broughtit into my life.
So, yes, I think that we can belonely for a lot of different
things Community, friendship,romantic love, etc.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Okay.
So perhaps say for myself, ifI'm at the point now where, all
of a sudden, when I have saidfor years and Tom's been gone,
well, it'll be seven years nextmonth and I have said I'm never
going to do this again, right,forget it.
And I've had friends that havewanted to introduce me to
someone.
No, I'm never, never doing thisagain.
(21:29):
I was very emphatic, you knowthat.
Would it be okay, advantageous,or would it be a suggestion
perhaps for me not to focus onthe dating part but just go out
and meet new?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
people.
I think you could do either, orI think there is, so let's look
at either.
Or I think if you identifysomething you want in this life
especially as short as life canbe and as crazy as this world is
, I think we kind kind of owe itto ourselves not to hold
ourselves back to pursue it.
I am looking at that thing Iwant and how can I allow myself
(22:03):
a greater opportunity to get it.
That doesn't mean you have tospend four hours a day online
dating.
No, no, no, right.
But maybe you just put yourselfonline dating and you check it
five minutes a day.
You're just allowing that tohappen.
That being said, I know for me Iwas way too fixated on finding
love and because it wasn'thappening, it was starting to
depress me so badly.
(22:24):
Now I was really lonely, right.
It was five and a half years, Ithink, after Michelle passed,
before I met Allie.
A month before I met Allie, Isaid and I kind of gave up if
I'm being honest.
I said I'm not going to find itand you know what.
That's okay, I'm just going togo live my life.
I'm going to have as much youknow, fun, enjoyment, help as
many people as I can move toCalifornia, live on the beach.
I'm done looking.
(22:46):
So I do think that there can bea taste made.
If you're looking, put yourselfout there more.
How are you like allowing theuniverse to help you?
There can also be a case forjust go live your life and
create conversations with people, meet people, make eye contact,
smile and let's see whatunfolds, so you don't feel this
burden every time you go in thesupermarket oh my gosh, I have
(23:09):
to meet somebody amazing rightnow.
Does that make sense.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yes, it makes perfect sense, it really does.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
And you mentioned supermarket, that's probably
where I find the most menshopping by themselves on a
given morning of the week.
But you know that you're one.
Hello.
One smile, one.
Oh, I was thinking of tryingthat bag of chips.
Have you eaten them often?
Are they good?
Away from a new friend.
(23:36):
I have equations.
A new love, love.
Yeah, it sounds stupid, but I'mtelling you that's how it
happens yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Well, you're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right.
At what things should someone,particularly a female, be
careful of as you start to dateagain, as you start to trust
someone?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
well, yeah, I'll give you a couple bullet points.
I mean, obviously there's ascammer thing, but I'm gonna go
to go deeper than that.
I don't care when a widowedperson starts dating again.
I don't care if you startdating a month after your person
passes, four years after yourperson passes or never again.
That's not for me to look at orjudge, but what I sometimes see
is people who do start too early, too early, meaning they have
(24:17):
done the work on themselvesright.
That's what I mean by too early.
They are more likely to pickthe wrong person, and I'm even
this is me too.
I was a mess about 11 monthsout when I met somebody who was
not right for me at all Kathyand because I was a mess when I
met her, I kept going with it.
(24:37):
So I think if we haven't donethe work on ourselves, if we are
in a really bad place, we aremore likely to pick the wrong
person.
Now, that being said, I know alot of people who met somebody
early on and are in love and agood relationship.
I also think obviously we couldtalk about this on another
episode, because I know we'rerunning out of time but
comparing, it's natural and it'shuman to compare.
(24:58):
But again, we don't want tostay there, we want to look at
the new person and to not judgethem is not the right word but,
for lack of a better word rightnow, judge them on that.
When I in the past compared newlove interest to my late wife
Michelle, that did a disserviceto the new love interest Right.
(25:18):
It did a disservice to me.
And it did a disservice toMichelle Right, because there
will never be another MichelleRight.
She was her own unique human.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, absolutely, and I agree with you.
Maybe we need to start the nexttime you come on, maybe there
should be a progression and turnit into a series with you Part
one, part two, you know, andnext time talk about comparing,
and the time after that talkabout something else, whatever,
(25:51):
because you have and I knowyou've gone through it yourself,
but you have an uncanny abilityto really make sense out of
this whole thing and you cantake the terrify out of it.
You really can, just becauseyou speak very clearly.
Terrify out of it, you reallycan, just because you speak very
clearly and very confidentlyabout it.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I always so.
I joke.
I always tell people like Icannot fix anything.
I am the worst cook in thehistory of the world.
I have no idea how to fix aflat tire for real.
And the reason why I lean inwith that type of true stuff,
but also kind of like leaning inwith my weaknesses, is because,
when it comes to dating, Ithink I know what I'm talking
(26:23):
about and one of the reasons whyis I go beyond what a lot of
dating coaches will tell you.
I think, if I'm being honestand so much of dating is
interpersonal issues, the mindright.
That's why we look at, when wedo these dating groups like
guilt and fear, comparingself-esteem and self-worth.
You know how do I still loveMichelle, but I'm also like in
(26:45):
love with Allie.
It's so much deeper than thestuff that meets the eye If
we're all dating, but especiallyfor widowed people, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I would agree with that.
I definitely would agree withthat.
And as far as comparing andeverything like that, of course
I have a copy of every one ofyour books, but the one that you
wrote, specifically focused atthis concept of dating, finding
new love, is the best.
I have recommended that book Ican't tell you how many times
and suggested that both peopleread it.
(27:15):
I've given it as a gift a fewtimes in fact to people.
So absolutely, and you're right,time is winding down, darn.
It Always happens, butespecially when I'm talking with
you, and it's just because theconversations, I think, are so
enjoyable.
You've given me some claritytoday and I appreciate it.
For once now I finally come outnot out of the closet, but you
(27:36):
know onto the airwaves and saidwell, you know, maybe, maybe I
won't rule it out anymore, Iwon't be quite so emphatic, but
at any rate, I appreciateeverything you've said and I
know listeners will too.
So this is the time in thepodcast, you remember, I'm going
to turn the microphone over toyou and, even though you might
not like to talk that much, Iwould like you to tell people
(28:00):
what's going on, how you'reavailable to help them and where
they can find you and all thatgood stuff I like to talk.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
I'm just sick of my own voice sometimes.
So my website isjohnpolocoachingcom.
On there you will find twopodcasts that I used to do.
You could listen to them forfree.
You will find the new one thatI'm planning to do, probably
later this year.
You'll also see an option forone on one.
Coaching workshops, groups, mybrand new retreats that are
(28:29):
coming up, and I do work withpeople every day on grief and
dating, but also pretty mucheverything else under the sun.
So motivation, self-esteem, youname it.
I pretty much have a workshopor a group on it where I could
help you one-on-one.
And then I do have the fourbooks as well.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well, that was pretty succinct.
I expected you to go into a lotmore detail.
What I will say in closing?
And we talk about self-care alot and I always remind people
to take care of themselves asthey grieve.
Many times I remind them ofsomething you told me at one
time that self-care evenincludes surrounding yourself
(29:06):
with the right-minded people,other people with open minds and
open hearts.
That's a form of self-care tostay away from the toxicity.
Did you want to add to that?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, I'll make it short because I know we're
running out of time.
I think people are one.
To me, people are one of themost important versions of
self-care that there is.
I know that when you and I saweach other last, it was in
Toronto and I was in a reallybad place, going to that
convention where I was going togive the keynote speech, and
being around all of thoseamazing humans that we were
(29:39):
around listed me up.
People are a version ofself-care and you have to watch
how you feel when you're aroundthat person.
Do you feel like the you thatyou want to be?
Do you feel hopeful andinspired and seen, and are you
laughing, or can you not wait toget out of their presence?
It matters, it really does itmatters.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
It does, and I would like to advocate for that to be.
One of the primary steps inself-care is to surround
yourself with the right people.
Having said that, I'm going towish everyone well, ask everyone
to take care of themselves andjust kind of keep on moving,
keep on heading forward andit'll all settle at some point.
(30:23):
John, thanks so much forjoining me today and keep going
as we all continue to live andgrieve.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Thank you so much for listening with us today.
Do you have a topic that you'dlike us to cover or do you have
a question from one of ourepisodes?
Please email us at info atasiliveandgrievecom and let us
know.
We hope you will find a momentto leave a review, send an email
and share with others.
Join us next time as wecontinue to live and grieve
(30:54):
together.
Welcome to as I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells
the truth about how hard thisis.
We're glad you joined us today.
We know how hard it is to losesomeone you love and how
well-intentioned friends andfamily try so hard to comfort us
.
We created this podcast toprovide you with comfort,
knowledge and support.
We are grief advocates, notprofessionals, not licensed
(00:22):
therapists.
We are you.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hi everybody.
Not professionals, Not licensedtherapists.
We are.
You Pick at that y'all and thatyonder, but truly I'm still a
Yankee.
Okay, so my apologies to theSouth.
Today we have a repeat guest,and I love it when guests come
(00:53):
back, because it's like catchinga friend that you haven't seen
for a while, and today's noexception.
With us today is John Polo.
Welcome back, John.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Good to see you, my friend, we are friends.
It's good to see you.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We are friends.
It's good to see you.
We are.
In fact, we actually met faceto face twice now, and that was
a real treat as well.
So today we're going to revisita topic that seems to get a lot
of interest when I look at theanalytics of our different
episodes and everything.
We've talked about dating andrepartnering, although I didn't
know that word repartnering atthe time.
We talked about dating andrepartnering although I didn't
(01:24):
know that word, repartnering atthe time.
We talked about dating a coupleof times before I guess, but
it's been a long time and thereseem to be a lot of people
interested in this topic.
I'm going to chalk that up tothings being the way they are in
the world.
It's difficult to kind ofabsorb all the news that's
really not fit to print whenyou're totally by yourself.
(01:46):
So I think there's this need,this urgency if you will, to
find someone to share the burdenwith you Would you agree?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, I mean absolutely.
I think that and I also think,just like human loneliness is
not talked about enough.
We live in a world of now Ithink it's 8 billion people I
think we've crossed that, Ithink it's 8 billion now and
human loneliness is a hugeproblem, and I'm not just
talking about grief or widowedpeople, just we, when we were
(02:15):
born, I always say we wereprogrammed to desire family,
friends, community and romanticlove, friends, community and
romantic love.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Right, right.
So why is the topic of datingthen so daunting?
I know why.
For me it would be, and you'veheard me say on air that I'm not
interested in dating.
But you know what Time goes byand my brain is starting to feel
a little bit differently on thetopic.
Wow, yeah, I know, I knew you'dbe amazed with that.
(02:44):
That's news, full disclosurefor me.
That's not to say that I wouldever entertain marrying again,
but I will admit that, eventhough I live with my daughter,
stephanie and her husband andtwo adult boys now, and it's a
busy, active household and Ilove them all very much, when I
close that door to my room atnight, I realize, gee, it'd be
(03:04):
nice to have somebody to talk tothem all very much.
When I closed that door to myroom at night, I realized, gee,
it'd be nice to have somebody totalk to at the very least.
Yet that idea of datingterrifies me.
Why do you suppose that is?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Because it's terrifying.
If we're just going to look atwidowed people for a moment
which you and I are both widowedpeople, I mean, we thought we
were never going to have toenter the dating world ever
again.
It was done.
We found our person and formost people most of my clients
(03:35):
are women 50 and above andhonestly, I think most are
probably in their 60s and I havea large number in their 70s
they have not dated in 40 or 50years, right, right, and the
world?
It is a different world withonline dating and scammers.
And that's not even to talkabout our own interpersonal
(03:57):
thoughts, emotions, fear, guilt,self-esteem issues.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, oh, it could be daunting.
Yeah, it is.
It's terrifying.
It's terrifying, yet there aremany who start out and dip their
toes in it.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Well, and that's the thing I always say when people
ask me like John, how do I knowif I'm ready, one of the things
I say is well, you're asking meif you might be ready, right,
and usually it's like at aworkshop I'm doing, or it's a
client that has brought up theconversation.
So that's an indicator to methat we are maybe a little bit
closer than we think.
And I love that you said dipyour toe in it, because what I
(04:31):
always say to people is like youare not signing a contract with
you know the dating gods, therelationship gods, that you are
going to stay in that datingpool forever.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You can literally dip your toe in the pool, say, oh,
I'm not ready for this, take itback off.
Yeah, and I think you know.
For me, the things right nowthat I consider daunting,
terrifying things that I reallydon't want to experience again,
far outweigh what I would takeas positive outcomes.
Yet I know that's not realistic.
I know it's not realistic justbecause I remember what I had
with Tom.
Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
So I'm going to play coach for a second.
I know you're not going to askme what it's you.
I'm going to take over theinterview for a second.
Tell me about if you're willingand, if not, say pass, it's
your podcast, not mine.
Like, what are the fears thatare so daunting?
And then like in your mind,what are the positives?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Okay, I'm happy to be very candid with you and with
our listeners because I reallydon't think I'm all alone in
this.
My first big number one fear isI don't want to go through the
eight months that I went throughwith Tom while he was ill with
a brain tumor.
I don't know if I can do thatagain.
That's number one.
(05:44):
Number two is that initialmoving from a cup of coffee and
conversation to that affection,hand-holding, public display of
affection type thing.
And number three would beintroducing to family and or
friends that I might meet, yeah,those.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So I mean the problem with talking about dating is we
could talk about it for 50hours Fascinating, that's why
you keep coming back, right.
I'm going to say a couple things.
The first is kind of just tovalidate there are a lot of
reason and again, if we're justlooking at widowed people for a
second why a widowed personmight be fearful to go back out
(06:21):
into the dating world.
There are a lot of reasons Icover when I work with people on
this.
For me, the biggest fear I hadwas going through it again,
becoming a caretaker again.
It scared me so bad and, if I'mbeing honest, it scares me so
bad.
So that is absolutely a thing.
One of the things I do when Istart looking at that fear is I
(06:43):
look at the fear but I don'tstare at it.
I talk about this a lot with alot of different things in life.
We have to be careful whatwe're staring at.
We all stare at the person onFacebook who is talking about
their horrible dating experience.
We all stare at everyinsecurity we've ever had.
We all stare at oh my God, whatif I have to become a caretaker
(07:04):
again?
But we don't look over at theother side, which is all the
people who have found love againand all the awesomeness that we
as our own unique, amazing selfbring to the table, and all of
the beauty and amazement that Ihad with Michelle and if I could
go back in time, was it worthit?
(07:25):
Yes, it was.
So that's a huge fear,absolutely, I'll also just say
because, again, I could talkabout this all day.
So I have to rein myself in.
You know, for me personally,the first time I kissed a woman,
even the first time I wasintimate with a woman, that did
not mess me up emotionally, thefirst time a woman took my hand,
she took my hand and held it.
Oh, like we had we.
This was.
I think this might have been myfirst kiss after michelle
(07:47):
passed like a kiss and then,like 15 minutes later, we
started walking and she held myhand and that messed me up, that
messed you up, right, yeah,yeah yeah, so like it's weird
what our grief and our fear, andeven sometimes our guilt, will
do to us.
It's not necessarily as weexpect it to be right, right,
right.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And, of course, the very first thing I would say
when you tell your story andeverything is that yeah, but I'm
not as young as you are.
Okay, I would fully expectsomeone your age younger, even a
little bit older, to reallywant to have a partner, but in
all honesty, I don't know howlong I have left a partner.
(08:25):
But in all honesty, I don'tknow how long I have loved Now.
I'm not in my 90s certainly,but I am 74.
So with now a new diagnosisthat it could be at some point
substantial.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
So someone actually could wind up taking care of me.
Yeah, I think again, we don'thave enough of an open mind when
we think about everything inlife, including dating.
So one quick thought and thenI'm going to go to exactly what
you said.
I used to be like a verynegative person.
I wasn't a very hopeful personor optimistic person.
What actually made me a veryhopeful person, a very
(09:02):
optimistic person, is my work.
Now, that sounds crazy when youconsider that, when it comes to
the coaching, probably 90% of myclientele people in my groups
are widowed people.
That's made you hopeful.
That's so weird.
The reason it's made me hopefulis because I see people who,
like myself, who are in so muchhuman pain that they didn't even
want to be here anymore.
(09:22):
They're finding life again andlove again and their smile again
and peace again and all of that.
So it takes me back to thepoint.
I have so many clients in their60s and, yes, even in their 70s,
who found love again.
I have clients, you know, twoo'clock I'll be on the phone
with the client who's 72 yearsold and has found love again,
(09:51):
and at three o'clock I'll be onthe phone with a 34 year old
client who is still lookingright, right, and also as
somebody who has multiplesclerosis, yeah, the table could
flip.
Yeah, somebody you know, myfiancee ali like because I am
engaged, she could have to takecare of me, sure?
So anytime you go into any kindof partnership, there is that
dual risk.
Yeah, the last thing I'm gonnasay because I like when you talk
more than me, um, is I think wehave to open our mind up to,
like what it might look like.
We're not 28 years old anymore,right, like it could be that
(10:13):
you have a companion, a nonintimate companion.
It could be that you have, youknow, a boyfriend, even though
that weird that word is so weird, right, that's how weird.
He's been married who lives 20minutes away for the next 10
years.
So I think we need to open ourmind to what finding love means
at this point.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
All right, all right, I accept that.
I accept that.
So I know I've asked thisbefore on other episodes, but
where do you start?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
It's a great question In terms of finding someone.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, because online we all know how that goes.
I have to say that in anaverage day, I either will get
I'll get two to three requestsfor friend on Facebook from a
male who, when I check theirprofile, it doesn't exist and
they only have one photo intheir entire thing, yet they say
that they've been online for 20years.
(11:05):
So things that I am confidentare not honest, true people, or
an occasional email as well, soit makes me very gun shy well, I
think there's a couple things.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
I know there are so many horror stories of online
dating.
I know that, and I know there'sscammers out there.
And, yes, there are a lothorror stories of online dating.
I know that, and I know there'sscammers out there, and, yes,
there are a lot of idiots outthere.
Let's just be honest.
But there are a lot of amazingpeople too.
I remember a conversation I washaving with a client once and
she goes John, I want toconvince myself that everybody
online is just, you know, kindof an idiot, right, kind of a
(11:39):
scammer.
And I was like, okay, well, youwant to convince yourself of
that, why haven't you or whycan't you?
And she goes, because you and Iare online, right, I'm like,
exactly, there are good, amazingpeople on there.
So I'm always of the beliefthat if you want to try to find
something again, you don't haveto go online.
But are you meeting peopleorganically?
(11:59):
Because if you are somebody whoworks from home and really
never gets out of the house ormeets new people, then you might
want to dip your toe in theonline pool just to put yourself
out there more For people whoare outside of the home, at work
or in communities.
My biggest thing and I've beentalking about this for years,
(12:21):
but I see even more now that myfiance and Allie and I moved
from Illinois to California andwe have no community here.
We're trying to build communityis talk to people.
Oh yes, create conversations.
It is so easy.
You are truly one new friend,one new business opportunity,
(12:42):
one new love away when you justcreate a conversation and it can
be out of thin air.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah yeah, sometimes that does happen and I'm of the
type that works from home.
I don't really get out much.
In fact, now that AJ, myyounger grandson, is grown up
and ready to head off to college, he stopped playing soccer, so
I don't even get out to soccergames anymore, which
occasionally would put me infront of new people.
(13:09):
So for me, meeting someone inthe community is probably very,
very low chance.
So if you're looking online,how do you separate, how do you
decide that this person I'm notsure if they're real or not, but
you decide to trust somebody.
Yeah Well, I mean, I'm not sureif they're real or not, but you
decide to trust somebody.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah Well, I mean, I think it's good to have your
guard up online, right?
I don't think we should begiving our credit card
information or security numbersto anybody.
You know, I have a lot ofclients who wants to actually
have somebody's name.
They will do a background checkand I think that that's
perfectly fine.
You want to slow walk it, nodoubt about it.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
You definitely want to slow walk it.
I don't want to put any kind ofindividual labels on it, but
one of the things that reallyconcerns me is if you feel like
you're being love bombed, lovebombed, yes Right, probably an
indication that they're ascammer.
If you've been talking to themfor three months and they
absolutely will not get on thephone with you, or you've been
(14:07):
talking to them for four monthsand they absolutely cannot meet
for coffee ever, probably anindication that you should be a
little bit concerned.
Good points.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Good points.
Okay, Now here's one wacky offthe wall.
I'm just going to tell you astory, an occasion where I had
some fun, but this is really offthe wall.
I'm just going to tell you astory, an occasion where I had
some fun, but this is really offthe wall.
This is so net me, Stephanieand I were on our way to a
conference one weekend this ismore than a year ago and I was
looking at the agenda, thedifferent sessions and
(14:37):
everything, and there was asession on artificial
intelligence.
You know what's coming right?
I don't know.
I don't really know.
I know what it is, but I'venever experienced it.
So I downloaded it at ChatGPT,which was free, and I started to
just pose a question here andthere.
Well before you know it, I washaving a conversation with AI
(14:59):
and it was one of the funniestthings.
Stephanie and I were institches.
It actually got to the pointwhere we had to pull off the
road at a Starbucks to getsomething because she was having
a hard time driving.
We were laughing so hard and Ithought to myself how many
people out there are lonelyenough to have AI as a best
friend.
And does that work for people?
(15:19):
Boy listeners, you can't seeJohn's face, but he's really
thinking about what he's goingto say.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Cause cause.
So I actually just took it offmy website.
I took it off my website.
I might add it back on.
On my website.
I have a bunch of keynotes thatI offer, and one was about human
loneliness, and you were at thekeynote that I gave in Toronto,
so you heard the beginning.
Part of it talks about my ownstruggle with human loneliness,
and I'm not just talking aboutafter my wife died, I'm talking
(15:47):
about since I was 12 years old.
I don't want to tell anybodywho is struggling with human
loneliness what to do, but myown thought on that is ai is not
the way to go.
There are amazing, wonderfulhumans in this world, and if you
don't have them in your life, Iwant you to go out there and
(16:08):
try to find them.
And I know as, again, somebodywho struggled with human
loneliness, not just just forromantic connection but for
friendship, for community, atdifferent points in my life.
That is hard, it's hard, butit's also life changing once you
find it.
And one of the ways to find itI'm telling you it's not so
stupid, but it's true is go outin the world and create
conversation with people.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I read a great book years ago
and the title of the book wasNever Eat Lunch Alone.
I read a great book years agoand the title of the book was
Never Eat Lunch Alone.
Now it was focusing on theconcept of networking and how
you never know the person youmeet, how sometime later in life
you might reconnect with thembecause of a need you have or
they have.
But every time somebody makes acomment like go out and meet
(16:50):
people, I think of that book.
And it's true.
If you happen to be out, maybeyou're going to, maybe you're
going to take yourself out tobreakfast, because that's what
you and your spouse used to doand you're just going to be.
You're going to be daring.
This is a challenge.
Now I'm going to go out and I'mgoing to have breakfast by
myself, engage in conversationwith the people around you, or,
(17:12):
if someone is sitting bythemselves and the restaurant is
very, very crowded, maybe justsay would you mind if I shared a
table?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
So 100%.
I could talk about this all day.
I'll give you one story here.
So my fiance, ali, and I, wherewe moved in California, it's a
completely walkable town.
We don't even have cars andevery morning we walk about 25
minutes to this little cafewhere we get our breakfast and
our coffee and for about maybefive or six days straight, we
(17:40):
saw a woman there every daysitting outside reading a book
and she looked like just likeone of the kindest humans that
you've ever laid eyes on.
So maybe four or five days ago,as we were walking by, we were
walking in and she was alreadythere.
I introduced myself and Allieintroduced herself and we
started a little bit of aconversation.
Why to tell she was widowed Ijust know I have that radar
(18:02):
Right and that conversation cameup, et cetera, et cetera, and I
said you know, maybe we can,you know you can join us one day
, I know you like to read, butmaybe you can join us one day
and we'll have breakfast, andshe was all excited about it.
Okay, so a couple days later wesee her again we hadn't set up
the breakfast date yet and westart talking about the book
she's reading and it's somethingthat Allie and I have an
interest in.
So we sat down and we talkedfor 20 minutes and now next
(18:25):
weekend we have a breakfast datewith her.
She is I don't know how old I'mgonna like late 60s, 70s maybe.
But again like we now metsomebody in our community who,
by the way, I share a bond withbecause we're widowed.
We are on the same page, wehave a lot of like mindedness.
Is that a thing?
Mutual interest?
We have made a friend.
I'm 40, allie is 31.
(18:46):
And we have made a friend thatcould be our mom or our grandma,
and all I did was introducemyself.
And I know it may sound weird,but, as somebody who has
struggled so much with humanlowlands, I used to be that
person taking myself out tobreakfast or to lunch or for
coffee, hoping that somebodywould talk to me because I
needed more people in my life.
(19:07):
And then one day I realized, oh, if I want more people in my
life, if I want to try to findlove again, if I want more
community, why don't I starttalking to people?
Why am I waiting?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Right.
So let me ask you a questionthen.
So when somebody says am Iready for dating, is it possible
that what they're reallylooking for whether it may be
dating, but what they really maybe looking for is just more
friends, all those friends youlose sometimes, like you say
yourself I mean, this isn'tanybody, you're going to date.
Yet you have a new friend, andone that will occupy some time,
(19:42):
someone you can sit and talkwith, chat here and there.
I mean I'd be okay with that.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, after my wife diedsorry, I'm the king of stories,
that's okay.
No, that's fine.
So about two or three weeksafter my wife died I was
supposed to meet an old highschool friend for dinner,
completely 100 million percentplatonic.
I was supposed to meet Jennafor dinner and Jenna and I we
knew each other in high school.
We hung out in the same groupbut we were never super tight.
(20:07):
So as I'm driving to therestaurant she texts me hey, my
sister is going to join us and Iwas so annoyed because I'm
thinking like I don't have thecapacity to deal with anybody
else right now, like I justwanted to go and have some food
with you.
So I was so annoyed.
I get there and her sister and Ihit it off, again strictly
platonic, 100 million percent.
And we became really really,really close friends.
(20:30):
For a couple of years.
She again it was 100 millionpercent platonic friends.
For a couple years.
She again it was a hundredmillion percent platonic.
There was no interest eitherway.
That did not fill any type ofromantic connection, romantic
desire for me throughout theyears.
But man did it fill some ofthat need for friendship and for
community.
And for me as a straight man Iso miss, just like going to
(20:55):
dinner or having coffee or alaugh with someone of the
opposite sex, and that broughtit into my life.
So, yes, I think that we can belonely for a lot of different
things Community, friendship,romantic love, etc.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Okay.
So perhaps say for myself, ifI'm at the point now where, all
of a sudden, when I have saidfor years and Tom's been gone,
well, it'll be seven years nextmonth and I have said I'm never
going to do this again, right,forget it.
And I've had friends that havewanted to introduce me to
someone.
No, I'm never, never doing thisagain.
(21:29):
I was very emphatic, you knowthat.
Would it be okay, advantageous,or would it be a suggestion
perhaps for me not to focus onthe dating part but just go out
and meet new?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
people.
I think you could do either, orI think there is, so let's look
at either.
Or I think if you identifysomething you want in this life
especially as short as life canbe and as crazy as this world is
, I think we kind kind of owe itto ourselves not to hold
ourselves back to pursue it.
I am looking at that thing Iwant and how can I allow myself
(22:03):
a greater opportunity to get it.
That doesn't mean you have tospend four hours a day online
dating.
No, no, no, right.
But maybe you just put yourselfonline dating and you check it
five minutes a day.
You're just allowing that tohappen.
That being said, I know for me Iwas way too fixated on finding
love and because it wasn'thappening, it was starting to
depress me so badly.
(22:24):
Now I was really lonely, right.
It was five and a half years, Ithink, after Michelle passed,
before I met Allie.
A month before I met Allie, Isaid and I kind of gave up if
I'm being honest.
I said I'm not going to find itand you know what.
That's okay, I'm just going togo live my life.
I'm going to have as much youknow, fun, enjoyment, help as
many people as I can move toCalifornia, live on the beach.
I'm done looking.
(22:46):
So I do think that there can bea taste made.
If you're looking, put yourselfout there more.
How are you like allowing theuniverse to help you?
There can also be a case forjust go live your life and
create conversations with people, meet people, make eye contact,
smile and let's see whatunfolds, so you don't feel this
burden every time you go in thesupermarket oh my gosh, I have
(23:09):
to meet somebody amazing rightnow.
Does that make sense.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yes, it makes perfect sense, it really does.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
And you mentioned supermarket, that's probably
where I find the most menshopping by themselves on a
given morning of the week.
But you know that you're one.
Hello.
One smile, one.
Oh, I was thinking of tryingthat bag of chips.
Have you eaten them often?
Are they good?
Away from a new friend.
(23:36):
I have equations.
A new love, love.
Yeah, it sounds stupid, but I'mtelling you that's how it
happens yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Well, you're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right.
At what things should someone,particularly a female, be
careful of as you start to dateagain, as you start to trust
someone?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
well, yeah, I'll give you a couple bullet points.
I mean, obviously there's ascammer thing, but I'm gonna go
to go deeper than that.
I don't care when a widowedperson starts dating again.
I don't care if you startdating a month after your person
passes, four years after yourperson passes or never again.
That's not for me to look at orjudge, but what I sometimes see
is people who do start too early, too early, meaning they have
(24:17):
done the work on themselvesright.
That's what I mean by too early.
They are more likely to pickthe wrong person, and I'm even
this is me too.
I was a mess about 11 monthsout when I met somebody who was
not right for me at all Kathyand because I was a mess when I
met her, I kept going with it.
(24:37):
So I think if we haven't donethe work on ourselves, if we are
in a really bad place, we aremore likely to pick the wrong
person.
Now, that being said, I know alot of people who met somebody
early on and are in love and agood relationship.
I also think obviously we couldtalk about this on another
episode, because I know we'rerunning out of time but
comparing, it's natural and it'shuman to compare.
(24:58):
But again, we don't want tostay there, we want to look at
the new person and to not judgethem is not the right word but,
for lack of a better word rightnow, judge them on that.
When I in the past compared newlove interest to my late wife
Michelle, that did a disserviceto the new love interest Right.
(25:18):
It did a disservice to me.
And it did a disservice toMichelle Right, because there
will never be another MichelleRight.
She was her own unique human.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, absolutely, and I agree with you.
Maybe we need to start the nexttime you come on, maybe there
should be a progression and turnit into a series with you Part
one, part two, you know, andnext time talk about comparing,
and the time after that talkabout something else, whatever,
(25:51):
because you have and I knowyou've gone through it yourself,
but you have an uncanny abilityto really make sense out of
this whole thing and you cantake the terrify out of it.
You really can, just becauseyou speak very clearly.
Terrify out of it, you reallycan, just because you speak very
clearly and very confidentlyabout it.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I always so.
I joke.
I always tell people like Icannot fix anything.
I am the worst cook in thehistory of the world.
I have no idea how to fix aflat tire for real.
And the reason why I lean inwith that type of true stuff,
but also kind of like leaning inwith my weaknesses, is because,
when it comes to dating, Ithink I know what I'm talking
(26:23):
about and one of the reasons whyis I go beyond what a lot of
dating coaches will tell you.
I think, if I'm being honestand so much of dating is
interpersonal issues, the mindright.
That's why we look at, when wedo these dating groups like
guilt and fear, comparingself-esteem and self-worth.
You know how do I still loveMichelle, but I'm also like in
(26:45):
love with Allie.
It's so much deeper than thestuff that meets the eye If
we're all dating, but especiallyfor widowed people, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I would agree with that.
I definitely would agree withthat.
And as far as comparing andeverything like that, of course
I have a copy of every one ofyour books, but the one that you
wrote, specifically focused atthis concept of dating, finding
new love, is the best.
I have recommended that book Ican't tell you how many times
and suggested that both peopleread it.
(27:15):
I've given it as a gift a fewtimes in fact to people.
So absolutely, and you're right,time is winding down, darn.
It Always happens, butespecially when I'm talking with
you, and it's just because theconversations, I think, are so
enjoyable.
You've given me some claritytoday and I appreciate it.
For once now I finally come outnot out of the closet, but you
(27:36):
know onto the airwaves and saidwell, you know, maybe, maybe I
won't rule it out anymore, Iwon't be quite so emphatic, but
at any rate, I appreciateeverything you've said and I
know listeners will too.
So this is the time in thepodcast, you remember, I'm going
to turn the microphone over toyou and, even though you might
not like to talk that much, Iwould like you to tell people
(28:00):
what's going on, how you'reavailable to help them and where
they can find you and all thatgood stuff I like to talk.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
I'm just sick of my own voice sometimes.
So my website isjohnpolocoachingcom.
On there you will find twopodcasts that I used to do.
You could listen to them forfree.
You will find the new one thatI'm planning to do, probably
later this year.
You'll also see an option forone on one.
Coaching workshops, groups, mybrand new retreats that are
(28:29):
coming up, and I do work withpeople every day on grief and
dating, but also pretty mucheverything else under the sun.
So motivation, self-esteem, youname it.
I pretty much have a workshopor a group on it where I could
help you one-on-one.
And then I do have the fourbooks as well.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well, that was pretty succinct.
I expected you to go into a lotmore detail.
What I will say in closing?
And we talk about self-care alot and I always remind people
to take care of themselves asthey grieve.
Many times I remind them ofsomething you told me at one
time that self-care evenincludes surrounding yourself
(29:06):
with the right-minded people,other people with open minds and
open hearts.
That's a form of self-care tostay away from the toxicity.
Did you want to add to that?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, I'll make it short because I know we're
running out of time.
I think people are one.
To me, people are one of themost important versions of
self-care that there is.
I know that when you and I saweach other last, it was in
Toronto and I was in a reallybad place, going to that
convention where I was going togive the keynote speech, and
being around all of thoseamazing humans that we were
(29:39):
around listed me up.
People are a version ofself-care and you have to watch
how you feel when you're aroundthat person.
Do you feel like the you thatyou want to be?
Do you feel hopeful andinspired and seen, and are you
laughing, or can you not wait toget out of their presence?
It matters, it really does itmatters.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
It does, and I would like to advocate for that to be.
One of the primary steps inself-care is to surround
yourself with the right people.
Having said that, I'm going towish everyone well, ask everyone
to take care of themselves andjust kind of keep on moving,
keep on heading forward andit'll all settle at some point.
(30:23):
John, thanks so much forjoining me today and keep going
as we all continue to live andgrieve.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Thank you so much for listening with us today.
Do you have a topic that you'dlike us to cover or do you have
a question from one of ourepisodes?
Please email us at info atasiliveandgrievecom and let us
know.
We hope you will find a momentto leave a review, send an email
and share with others.
Join us next time as wecontinue to live and grieve
(30:54):
together.
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