March 4, 2025 • 40 mins
What happens when music becomes your lifeline through life’s toughest moments? Join us as we welcome Ken Rutley, a dedicated music enthusiast and recent widower, to share his poignant story of finding solace in melodies after the passing of his beloved wife, Lindy. Ken's heartfelt recounting reveals how songs serve as an emotional anchor, providing both joy and a path to navigate grief.
Throughout the episode, we explore the intriguing relationship between music and emotions, especially how certain songs can resonate deeply in times of loss. Reflecting on personal favorites like "Mexican Moon" by Concrete Blonde and "Ordinary World" by Duran Duran, we discuss how music can mirror the emotional stages of grief, offering comfort and fostering healing. Adding a touch of nostalgia, we celebrate the art of mixtapes, with a fun challenge of crafting a musical journey—from tears to hope—through a thoughtful selection of songs.
Tune in for a rich dialogue on music's transformative power in our personal journeys of loss and renewal.
Contact:
www.asiliveandgrieve.com
info@asiliveandgrieve.com
Facebook: As I Live and Grieve
Instagram: @asiliveandgrieve
YouTube: asiliveandgrieve
TikTok: @asiliveandgrieve
Listen to Ken's Podcast:
Scratch Made A Mixtape: https://open.spotify.com/show/0X4GCQHQSJKbPY7ykWzIhA
Credits:
Music by Kevin MacLeod
Copyright 2020, by As I Live and Grieve
The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to as I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells
the truth about how hard thisis.
We're glad you joined us today.
We know how hard it is to losesomeone you love and how
well-intentioned friends andfamily try so hard to comfort us
.
We created this podcast toprovide you with comfort,
knowledge and support.
We are grief advocates, notprofessionals, not licensed
(00:22):
therapists.
We are you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hi everyone.
Welcome back again to anotherepisode of as I Live in Grief.
Yes, I've got another coldSeems.
I had one a couple months ago,but the weather up here in
upstate New York is just coldappropriate it really is.
So you'll have to pardon mygravelly voice and the
occasional cough if I do that.
But hey, you know it's me.
You've known me for four yearsnow.
(00:48):
With me today is Ken Rutley.
He is a delightful person andwe have become fast friends.
Ken, thanks so much for takingthe time to join me today.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, thank you so much for having me, Kathy.
I'm really looking forward tothe conversation that we have
sort of talked about previously.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
No, me too.
You know we always, whenever weget together, we start to talk
about our initial focus and thenwe kind of segue into who knows
what.
And that was no different today.
So we have focused now and hitthe record button.
So we're going to talk aboutmusic and grief.
So, ken, before we get started,would you just tell our
(01:25):
listeners a little bit aboutyourself?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I'd be happy to.
I guess the first place tostart is I've always been a
music fan and growing up as akid we as a family had a very
eclectic kind of musiccollection.
So I grew up listening to lotsof popular music from the 60s
and also listening to operas andmusicals and things of that
(01:49):
nature.
So I've always had a love formusic and all kinds of genres
and as I got older I sort ofgravitated to well, popular kind
of music, but other things aswell, and I guess I have a real
appreciation for differentgenres.
Some I like more than others Icould use.
I think we could say that aboutall of us right, but yeah.
So I've always kind of been amusic fan per se and I played
(02:13):
instruments in bands in highschool and and little garage
bands after I'd finished highschool and that kind of thing.
How we met was at Camp Widow inToronto back in November and I
remember sitting down beside youand we just kind of got talking
and I discovered that you had apodcast and you had you know
through that I had told you thatI have a podcast as well and my
(02:34):
podcast is about music, almostlike the traditional mixtape
from way back in the day, and sothat's what mine's about.
I'm new to being a widow.
I have two children, one 22 andone 17, both daughters and both
adopted from China, and we'reworking through, I guess, the
first year of not having Lindy,their mother and my wife around
(02:57):
anymore and just sort of thetransition I don't even want to
say transition, that's not theright word just the journey I
think that's the better wordthat we're having now is
challenging at times, but timeswe remember who she was and what
she did for us as a mother andas a wife and partner and just
good human being and that doeshelp us kind of get through the
(03:18):
tough times.
But it's a journey I neverthought I'd be taking and now
that I'm on it I realize youknow, once you become a widow
you really appreciate otherwidows and what they can do for
you, and that's really why we'rehere.
You and I met in Camp Widow andhere we are having a discussion
about how grief can sort ofsometimes be tempered or by
(03:38):
music.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, you know, we all know that with grief comes a
variety of symptoms, not theleast of which are anger,
sadness, just devastation.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Very true.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Sometimes joy, yes, when you latch onto that memory
that makes you smile.
Yeah, I know I have a bunch ofthose and for me, as time goes
on, I find myself probablysmiling more than crying and I
don't really know when thatevolution took place.
Like you, ken, music was a hugepart of my life as I was
(04:11):
growing up.
I was always in the churchchoir, I think probably from the
time I was six.
They had a children's choir andthen there was a youth choir
and then I was in the adultchoir.
I was in band.
In high school I playedclarinet.
I was in the band.
I was in concert band.
I was in march band.
I was in pep band.
I was in a clarinet ensemble.
(04:31):
Music was just a part of mylife, it just was.
I took piano lessons startingat the age of four until I was
about 14.
I could sit down now and playchopsticks and probably blunder
through a piece of sheet musicbut, it doesn't come naturally
to me.
I was always one that had topractice at it.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
But because of that and because of the many car
trips with family and my fatheralways had the radio- on and
would be singing.
He was in barbershop quartet inaddition to church choir, but
music was always a part of ourlives in addition to church
choir, but music was always apart of our lives, Everything
from music back in the 40s rightup to and including today's
music.
My older grandson, Nate, is ina band and they play a lot of
(05:14):
Guns N' Roses and Alice inChains and all of those, and
guess what?
This grandma's at every gigbecause music is part of my life
.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And I think it's wonderful that you have that
sort of supportive relationshipwith your grandson.
I'm just wondering what youwould be wearing at a heavy
metal gig or a hard rock gig.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Fortunately, the gigs he plays are local
establishments and they're morejust.
You know, I can wear my jeansand t-shirt.
I do have a slash t-shirt thathe bought me that I have not yet
been able to wear to a gigbecause it's recent.
He recently went to Torontowhen Slash was there, and
actually I gifted him with theVIP ticket for him and his mom,
(05:59):
who went with him, and mydaughter, stephanie, and they
got to sit into a what do theycall it?
The audio check.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Oh, soundcheck.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
The soundcheck, with Slash himself on stage and they
were like in the front row andvery close.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
And that was a treat for me, oh.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I could imagine.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
But yeah, the point is, music's always been a part
of my life and, withoutrealizing it, I found that I
would gravitate to differentmusic depending on what I was
feeling.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, I can share that with you.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And as I was a single mom this was a single mom due
to divorce back when my kidswere younger.
They would have troublesleeping at night, so I would
put classical music on, thingslike Moonlight Sonata or
something.
Yes, I found it relaxed them alittle bit.
They would focus on the melodyand they would just kind of doze
off, because that's what Iwould do as well.
If I needed to motivate myself,I would put something rousing
(06:51):
on.
You know, and I don't even know.
A lot of times I know the songs.
I may not know the title or theartist but that's just me.
I just know the feeling it givesme.
Lately I've been into a newalbum that's out by john
baptiste okay he took someclassical pieces and fused them
with jazz.
Oh, okay and it's a veryinteresting album and I just
(07:14):
love it.
And the reason jazz has comeback is because nate the
grandson again is.
He's a senior in college andhe's majoring in music the audio
production theory, so he'slearning to be a sound engineer
and all that to bolster hismusic career and he's also in a
jazz ensemble and has reallycome to enjoy jazz.
Oh okay, so we were talkingabout that.
(07:36):
That's really interesting Inyour podcast and everything.
What approach?
What's your angle on music?
Do you approach it like fromthe chart busters?
Do you approach it from artistby artist?
What's your approach?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
I still have a CD player which I use quite often.
So I have, I would say, amodest collection of CDs and I
(08:11):
also have some cassettes.
At one point in my possession Iactually had an 8-track player,
but I got rid of that because,one, it wasn't working, and two,
when you find 8-tracks in thevintage wild, vintage wild,
they'll call it or scroungingaround they are.
They're always really in badshape and and so you know you
(08:32):
really you're buying it for thenovelty of having it, but the
sound is.
That's why it's nice to be ableto buy cds.
Still, people don't want them,but oh yeah, but uh, and so
anyways, my, my podcast sort oftakes a theme.
So maybe the theme might bemovie soundtracks.
All right, so I'll curatewhat's in my collection and then
(08:52):
I'll take out songs, likemaking a mixtape.
So it's like, okay, I'm makingthis kind of mixtape for someone
who might be like this orwhatever.
And then you pick out the songsand then you curate them, songs,
and then you curate them andthen you put the, you sort of
plunk them in, and then I justtalk a little bit about the
background of the song or maybethe artist or or what, how I
(09:13):
feel it fits into the podcast.
And then, kathy, I'll letmyself stream one song, and the
one song I stream it is is kindof my way of saying, oh, I, I
cop, I stole this one off theradio.
Remember the day and you wouldhave no intro.
It would just cut in sharplyand you'd have, because the DJ
was talking at the beginning ofthe song.
So I count that as being ableto.
(09:36):
You know, stream a song or youborrow an album from somebody,
or what have you.
So anyway, so that's kind ofwhat it is.
It's a 12 song show and Istream it over, or I only stream
it on Spotify, for the veryreason that Spotify has an
agreement with artists that ifyou're podcasting, you can use
(09:56):
songs in their full, like thefull song.
That's what I want to say.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Really, yeah, without worrying about paying fees and
everything like that.
Yeah, yeah, so that's yes.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
So that's why I'm just kind of a Spotify podcaster
at this point, because thewhole underlying idea is that
you want to have the whole songthere, so you can sort of go
into a more in-depth kind ofexperience.
On a platform where you're onlyallowed to play a few seconds
or 30 seconds or whatever, itdoesn't have the same impact.
So, yeah, so I realize it,maybe less people will hear it,
(10:28):
but I think having the full songis really important to the
essence of what it is.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes, and let's face it, we don't always do
podcasting just so a number ofpeople can hear it.
Sometimes we do it just becausewe feel we have something to
say and we know that there areout there, there are listeners
that who want to hear.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah exactly, and it's I do it because you know
I'm retired now and I guess Ineed something to keep me out of
trouble, so that's what I'll bedoing right now.
It's on hiatus.
My wife died and my mother dieda few months previous to that,
so it was a long, kind of toughgo, and I just had to put that
(11:06):
particular passion on the backburner.
And now that things are,starting to, you know, get back
on track.
I'm thinking more and moreabout let's get this thing going
again, because I really enjoyedit.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yes, well, come on, let's give me credit here, ken,
you know I'm having you on thispodcast and that's giving you
the fever again.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
It has, it actually has.
You're on this podcast andthat's given you the fever again
it has.
It actually has.
I wake up every morning and Isay I can't let Kathy down, I
gotta get this episode togetheryeah, no, I well, you know what.
It has been nice to sort ofhave you know someone like you,
sort of you know take aninterest in it and make me sort
of rekindle the fire I had forthat.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Well, and I have to admit, if I was doing a podcast
just totally solo I probablywould have quit long ago.
But it's having guests everyweek that really keep it alive
for me because I love the peopleand I always learn something.
Okay, a question for you.
Music has been vital in yourlife?
Yes, and you recently actuallyhad two losses.
Yes, yes, did you turn to musicin your grief?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Heavily, heavily, especially with regard to Lindy,
my, my wife, you know it.
It has been a way for me torelease a lot of the emotion
that that comes with grievingand I.
I have a little playlist and Ihave several little playlists,
but one of them is called themissing you playlist and there's
(12:34):
songs that either remind me ofthings that we had done together
, you know as whether it be sheand I or as a family, and also
songs that just have that kindof quality of just you can't
help but let them allow that, orallow them to tap into what
you're feeling, and they justbring forth emotion, and a lot
of them are, you know what, uhkind of crying songs.
To be honest with you, yeah,and I will listen to that and it
(12:58):
will make me, you know, sort ofhave the desired effect it will
have the desired effect, butalso, not only that, it will
just.
It's almost.
You know, kathy, it's almostlike you have permission to
become emotional right likeyou're listening to a sad song
and some people find it verydifficult to show emotion and
that kind of thing, but if youhave it within that kind of
(13:20):
context, well, you're allowed tocry at a sad song, right and,
and so it kind of allows you alittle bit of leniency to be
vulnerable with yourself orwhatever right.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, I like that.
I think you may have coined anew phrase music is permission
to feel.
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
Thank, you.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I'm glad you did.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Did you find that it was only when you had a certain
type of feeling, like when youwere really sad or when you got
angry, or was it only with acertain feeling that you would
turn to music?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I don't know, I don't know if there's.
I think it's almost as if youknow how there's, the grieving
phases of grief.
Right, I still am very much inthe phase of missing her
desperately.
Still am very much in the phaseof missing her desperately and,
you know, waking up in a bedwhere it's now just instead of
(14:12):
the three of us, because I'mincluding the dog in there.
Yes, it's just the dog and Ithat wake up in the bed, and and
so there's, as you probablyknow.
You know you can't walk throughyour home without having
literally hundreds of memoriescome at you.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
It's like stubbing your toe.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah, and everywhere I look there's something of her
remains right.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yes, I think at this point it's almost like a bit of
a trend.
Maybe I'm going through atransitionary sort of phase, but
the first part was really sad.
Sad kind of songs and songsthat either the music itself I
found sad or the lyrics I foundsad.
In some cases the combination ofboth was something, and I
(14:58):
realized that every sad song youlisten to is written by the sad
person who wrote it.
And, having said that, you findlittle consistencies in every
song that speak to you verydirectly and it's almost like
you take those out.
And it's not even necessarilythe whole piece, but maybe those
little snippets that reallyresonate with you and that's
what I kind of find with myselfis there's either a lyric or a
(15:21):
passage.
It really means even morebecause it touches me so
personally and reminds me of somany things that were part of
our life together.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Right, and admittedly , that same phrase, those same
lyrics, could mean somethingentirely different to someone
else.
Absolutely Because music isvery personal.
Yes, okay, and we react to itmuch the way we grieve, totally
in a unique way.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yes, yeah, no, I couldn't agree with you more.
It was just that, and that'swhat I found when I was in
Toronto at the camp where weboth were.
Is that how unique eachperson's experience was right,
and then so how we were allthere because we lost a partner,
but just the stories there wereso different and and so, like
(16:07):
you say, the stories aredifferent, the grieving is
different and what you take froma piece of music will be
different as well, and verysimilar you know, personalized
to you, and I think that's whatmakes it so powerful, right.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, do you have a go-to song?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I actually do have one, and it's a song I've really
, as far as the grief contextgoes, it's a song I've really
I've listened to and has beenpart of my sort of inventory of
things I've always sort of, Iguess, relied on Maybe that's a
way of putting it.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith this.
It's a band from Los Angeles.
They're called Concrete Blonde.
(16:45):
Have you heard of ConcreteBlonde?
No, okay, well, maybe yourgrandson might know Concrete
Blonde.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
He probably does.
He knows it all yeah well,there you go.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
But Concrete Blonde has a song called Mexican Moon,
mexican, mexican Moon, mexicanMoon by Concrete Blonde, and
what the song is reallybasically about is that there's
this woman singing about, youknow, losing somebody and she's
in Mexico and she's singing thissong under the Mexican moon,
and just the intro itself for meis something that you know.
(17:14):
There's an acoustic guitar andit really draws me in.
And then the lead singer ofthis band her name is Jeanette
Napolitano or something andsomething along those lines.
Jeanette, if you ever hear this, my apologies to you, but she
has kind of like the Kathy Coldvoice and it's got a raspiness
(17:36):
to it, and the lyrics, her vocalstyle and just the composition
of the song itself can't helpbut get emotional when I hear
that song.
That's probably like my, mygo-to one.
Another song that I reallyquite like is by duran duran.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Okay, yeah I've heard of them, yeah and anyways, I'm
sure you have.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
I guess they're kind of.
We're kind of popular at onetime Still going by the way,
yeah, they were Still going.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Well, aren't they all ?
Aren't they all, some of them?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
yeah, still going.
Good for them.
And anyways, they have a songcalled Ordinary World.
I'm not sure, but that's alsoone worth checking out.
Just about going through yourlife after an event and
wondering when's it going to getback to being ordinary, or how
can you ever and almostrealizing that what does
(18:25):
ordinary even mean?
Right, and that kind of thingis.
And it's like when people sayoh, you know don't worry, ken,
we'll get back to normal.
Well, my normal was having Lindyin my life and that was my
normal.
Anything they should be sayingwell, don't worry, ken, it's
going to be abnormal soon yeah,well, I don't, you know, it'll
(18:46):
get.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Eventually it'll get to a point where it's ordinary
yeah it won't.
It'll never be the same.
No, it'll never be the same,but it'll be ordinary again yeah
, at some point yeah okay, offthe cuff question what emotion
do you have when one of thesesongs ends Wow, that's a good
question, I guess.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
sometimes it's the emotion of.
I guess there's a contentmentor a happiness, because maybe at
that particular time, as goingthrough the song, maybe the
lasting impression I have is apositive one, right, and so
maybe you get a little bit ofthat content, happiness, coming
out of it.
Sometimes they're like drinkingbeer as soon as you've had one
(19:27):
you're sad, so you have anotherone to keep that thing going,
because there has been timeswhere it's just kind of been
with you know a specific kind ora certain kind of day.
You know how it is.
Let's have another one, becauseI really need to kind of work
through some things.
So sometimes it's a lot of.
It can vary.
It really can vary.
Sure, today, what I'm startingto do now you might find this
(19:49):
interesting is I'm trying tofind one song each day to try
and see what my you know wrap up, maybe a quick impression of
emotions and feelings, you know,in the morning when I wake up.
And today's song was actuallyby Tom Petty and you probably
know the song, even the Losers,right.
So I woke up with that song inmy sort of nestled in my head,
(20:13):
because for me, the time when Imet Lindy, I know it was a time
for me where I was a little hardon myself, Okay.
And this song kind of talksabout this guy who meets someone
and realizes what this personmeans to him and what sort of
transpires from that.
And what I take from that isthat, you know I was at a
(20:33):
downtime.
I met a human being who I knowpersonally changed who I was as
a person and had the impressionon me of.
I know, without hesitation,that she motivated and supported
me in a way that allowed me tobecome a better human being, and
that's probably why I'm sodevastated that she's gone is
(20:55):
that she was such a positiveforce in my life.
And so, anyways, I waslistening to this Tom Petty song
because it was kind of like youknow what, I kind of lucked out
.
I was at a time where I wasreally down about myself and
wondering what was going to bemy life, and then I met somebody
who made me realize how specialit is to have an opportunity to
(21:18):
live on this planet and evenmeet somebody.
And that's what I sometimes sayto people.
They'll say oh my gosh,everything would be better if I
won the lottery, right?
Oh yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Yeah, but then I sort of you know my sort of response
is well, okay, so let's justlook at the odds of you just
being alive, let alone meetingsomeone else who just happens to
be alive, right, and you twogetting together and sharing
your life with one another, andthen at some point.
Maybe others share the lifewith you, children or what have
(21:50):
you?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
And you think of what are the odds of that?
And they're so infinitesimallyhuge right that you've already
won your lottery Absolutely.
And that's kind of what I sortof that's a great way to look at
it that's a great way to lookat it.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Okay, questions on mixtapes, because I realize that
some of our listeners mighthave heard the phrase yes, they
may not really know what is amixtape.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yes, in fact, I think , in this modern, the modern
context with them kids thesedays, I think it's kind of like
now it's yeah well it's aplaylist or a mixtape might be
something that an individualputs out as an independent kind
of record on their own,sometimes, I think, called a
mixtape.
So let's clarify for youraudience, however old they may
(22:34):
be or not be Quite a range,quite a range, okay.
In the old days.
When Kathy was a child yeah,well, okay, well, I don't know
if it's that far back, is it?
yeah, it is anyways, we hadthese goofy things called
cassettes, yeah, and we also hadrecords and and also other
(22:58):
cassettes.
So the thing is, if you wantedto share your music with someone
, you would say, oh, you know, Ihave a few songs I'd like to
share.
Or maybe you have a person thatyou're interested in and maybe
you say, oh, I made you amixtape which is it's almost
like pouring out your soul in away, depending on the context.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's like the notes you used to write in the
classroom when you were in gradeschool.
Absolutely.
Do you like me Check?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
yes, check.
No, or maybe my notes were morelike do you think you could
like me?
There you go, but anyway.
So you would get your cassetteand you would cue up your record
player and you would find thesong and you would drop the
needle on that song and startrecording, and then that goes on
(23:44):
to the cassette.
And so you would eithercontinue doing that with records
or sometimes some people werevery fortunate and had, you know
, dual cassette players.
Did you ever have one of those?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
So you could record songs off cassettes to other
cassettes and you would justmake a playlist, like I said
previously, from the music youhad access to and then you'd
make that playlist for whoeverit was, and then write down all
the songs on the paper insertthat came with every cassette
and you'd write down all thesongs and then, if you were
(24:16):
really maybe taken with theindividual you were giving the
tape to, you might cut some kindof uh picture out of a magazine
or draw something on there andcall it a something mix.
Right, yeah, it was like youalways call it the something mix
.
So it'd be like the walking ona rainy day mix and you know
you'd have your songs like that,either just a collection to
(24:37):
share with a friend or one's,professing your deep love, your
deep junior high school love ofa number of mixed tapes I I
received a number did you, I betyou did, I did, I never.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I never gifted any, though oh, I see.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
So every tape you got was like, yeah, this is nice,
but no, I'm not making one foryou I I never gifted one, no.
Yeah, well, that's kind of, youknow, that's kind of
interesting.
It's not too late.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
No, I think it's because I have trouble making
decisions, so I could neverdecide what songs I want to put
on.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Well, that's an excellent point.
You know, maybe you had toomuch access to music.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
You know you weren't one of those people who had like
okay, I've got 10 records.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
10 records and four tapes.
How do I make this work?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, and I remember actually and I'm certainly never
going to mention names, but Iremember actually recording over
some of the mixtapes that Ididn't like.
Okay, that's a story foranother day.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I can imagine Maybe next time, if I come on, we'll
talk about the mixtapes in mylife and why they caused me
grief.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
There we go.
That might make a good session.
So knowing now what a mixtape,is okay, and it's a series of
songs that mean something to you, that you might share with
someone.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And I think I mentioned this to you before.
But here's my challenge to youhow many songs are on a mixtape
approximately?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
well, okay, so it really depends, because back in
the day we could buy a 60 minutecassette or a 90 minute
cassette, right?
So well, you know that, right,I guess, yeah, it was 60 or 90
or whatever.
Yeah, so I would say you wouldprobably get anywhere like a 60
minute.
I'm thinking you'd probably,and it depends on the song,
(26:23):
because if you're putting onlike roundabout by, yes, that's
like one side of a tape, maybe,I don't know fair enough, but I
would say, a good number isprobably between uh, depending
on the cassette length, I thinkyou'd probably be talking about
12 to 20 songs okay, if we tookthe number 12 okay, I like.
That's what my show is about too.
12 songs, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Oh, yeah, you did say that okay, 12 songs related to
grief, but the challenge is tohave it start with the music
that will evoke tears okay, sotear music, yep okay and then
have it progress, almost like anombre color.
You know how color will go intie-dye.
(27:05):
You see it especially.
It'll go from, say, a deep,deep navy blue and then it
gradually changes shades untilit's a pale, pale pastel type
blue.
All right, have it go, an ombreeffect to the 12th song being
one that gives you hope or givesyou the empowerment to continue
(27:25):
on.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Okay, so you're saying that Does that make sense
?
Yeah, you could almost findspecific things related to grief
patterns or grief cycle.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, I mean the one that comes to mind is the fight
song.
This is my fight song, or eventake me to church, something
like that, I don't know, butthings like that, they would
certainly change from tone ofmusic key, everything pacing all
the way up.
But my thought is that as weprogress in our grief, our
(27:55):
periods of deep, deep sadness dolessen.
Decades of deep, deep sadness,yes, do lessen.
So at some point on a griefjourney it might be nice that if
you all of a sudden have thatday that you wake up and, oh my
gosh, the memories are justheavy, that feeling has just
come back, that you could putthis playlist, mixtape, whatever
you could put this on, and itwould help draw you out of that
(28:18):
sadness.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
And give you a little bit more optimism to go forward
into your day.
That's my thought.
I think that is a marketableitem.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
What are we discussing?
A business plan here, openly onyour podcast.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
We could be.
We could be, but I wonder ifsomething like that would be
effective.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I think, yes, it would be.
But here's the kind of thing Imight find it might be a little
challenging in that I'm actuallyreading an interesting book
right now called this Is whatMusic, or this Is what it Sounds
Like, and it's by this woman,susan Rogers, who was a producer
of records and things like that, and I'm realizing realizing
(29:01):
I'm reading her book thatbecause and as we said this
before, music is so personal, Imight create a playlist at you
and I think it's oh, this isfantastic, da-da-da-da-da, and
then another person might say,oh, what a horrible tune for me
you know.
So that would be I think thechallenge and they were she was
(29:22):
talking in her book about, likethe, the triple crown in music
is having the respect of critics, having the respect of other
musicians and also having theappeal to the public.
And she said very few artistscan hit the triple crown right
Because there are some that arefantastic with the public but
other musicians wouldn't reallyrespect them right.
(29:44):
Or there's ones that are maybemusicians like or what have you
in the public song, but thecritics will say this is really
not that great an album.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And so you have.
What do critics know?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yeah, that's what.
There you go.
I didn't put them in uh.
I didn't list them in uh orderof hierarchy for critics.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Everybody hates them right you, you want the
listeners first, because they'rethe ones that are going to pay
them, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
but then again, you know, it's kind of like when you
think about it, there's alsothe side of you know, when you
say that, oh, uh, you want thelisteners, a lot of musicians
would say yeah, but by doingthat I'm giving up my creativity
, right?
So I have to put out somethingthat people would love to, let's
say, consume for no otherbetter for lack of a better word
(30:30):
but maybe don't honor theirintegrity, right?
So it's really, it's morecomplicated than I realized from
reading this book.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Well, it is it is, and any type of creativity is
that way.
Writing a book is the same way.
Who are you writing for?
Who's your audience?
Podcasting is that way when youthink about it, who's your
audience?
And you just do what you feelis right and go on with it until
it proves otherwise.
Fortunately, there's no moneywriting on this podcast, so this
(31:00):
is really, truly, my gift toeveryone.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Well, it's a lovely gift.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And that's why I don't have ads.
I don't want it interruptedbecause I think grief is a topic
where you shouldn't have paidads sponsored ads in there.
And who's going to advertiseFuneral homes?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
I don't like listening to those ads on the TV
.
That's just me personally.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Oh yeah, I could go off on a tangent for that one.
Yeah, that's right.
Lots of advertisers likeFuneral Homes.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah, kathy, put the soapbox away, at any rate, I
think.
For me personally, it would beinteresting to have that
playlist.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah, or even have it as this is what is resonating
for me, or this is the way I seeit.
And then someone inevitably isgoing to say oh well, that's an
interesting idea, but I thinkI'd personalize it to me by
maybe keeping some of these, butI would add this in here, or
add that in there, right?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Well then, maybe the business becomes creating a
personalized mixtape.
Yeah, that's a service youcould sell.
I'm trying to give you somebusiness idea.
I know I like it.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
I just, I just didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I didn't realize I was going into a business, I
didn't either I didn't either,but see, that's what we talked
about the podcast and how Idon't use a script.
Yeah, that's what organicsolutions do?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I think it's anyway, at any rate, our time is winding
down, so what I want to do atthis point is turn the
microphone over to you Okay.
And just let you have the floor.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Sure, if something I say triggers your curiosity,
feel free to jump in, because,as you said previously,
sometimes when you're justtalking on your own, you're kind
of like when you start to haveto focus on listening just to
yourself, it becomes a littlebit like I don't know why anyone
would want to listen to me inthe first place.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I hear you yes.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
All right, so just a little bit.
I'll talk a little bit about mypodcast.
The podcast, as I said, is onSpotify and the title of the
podcast is called Scratch Made aMixtape and it's just basically
an exploration of anappreciation of having music in
physical forms and how thatexperience now is starting.
(33:15):
You know it's having resurgence, but it's about the fact that
you go and you take an album outof your collection and you
slide it out of the album cover,the jacket, and there's liner
notes and there's lyrics, and so, as you are having this
experience of listening to thissong or this album, you get
(33:37):
taken up with the other elementsthat are there, like the album
art, or with the liner notes,and you find out about the band
and you know those kind ofthings, and I think that's so
much more.
It's a fuller experience thanjust going through screening,
going through a screen up anddown or whatever, and then point
(33:58):
putting your finger on a songand instantly it's there.
And I had an interestingconversation with a friend
recently and her daughter hasstarted to get into vinyl
records and they have aturntable at their house and
she's kind of like, well, how doI skip to the next song.
And no, you don't.
You just you go and you hearwhat's there and you listen to
(34:19):
it in a order that was verydeliberate.
And so the whole point of thatthe podcast is to appreciate
music in physical forms whetherit's cassette, record, compact
disc but also going through whatyou have and touching on what's
inside you to be to honor thetheme that might be of that
(34:40):
mixtape.
So one of the tapes I did wasabout my mother and I and the
music we listened to and themusic she listened to in her
youth, because she grew up as ayoung Japanese woman during the
Second World War.
So she has some interestingstories during war and post-war
and just some of the music thatshe enjoyed from that particular
(35:01):
era as well, and so it's justreally a celebration of a older
media format so that people ofthis day and age kind of know
what was involved in making aplaylist.
It's kind of like teachingsomeone how to make bread right,
the process of it, yeah, andthen you just don't go to the
(35:22):
store and say, oh, this one hassesame seeds.
You go oh the whole thing was aprocess right, and by going into
the process a process like thatone or making a mixtape it also
reflects a little bit on whoyou are and what your motives
might be, or whatever else youknow emotionally goes into that,
(35:44):
while you kind of curate andtry and find just that right
piece to put in there.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, yeah, and a personal story I have to inject.
Nate older grandson is incollege and he's majoring in
music audio production theory.
I don't know if that's theactual, but anyway, a lot of his
projects, if you will, for hismusic classes, are that the
professor will give them a songgive each student a song and it
is their job to recreate it,which means they have to find
(36:12):
the instrumentalists, thevocalists and everything and
they have to record those tracksand then they have to mix those
tracks and come out with areproduction.
Well, that's one thing, andmost times, you know, they get a
song that they know orsomething like that.
There was one project lastsemester, last semester, last
year I don't know he's in hisfinal year At any rate, he came
(36:32):
home and said he had a project,and I always thrive as soon as
he tells us about a project.
I just love hearing about it.
And he was given.
He said his professor came tohim he had different songs on
index cards and he was justpassing them out to students and
he got to Nate, who's been onthe Dean's list, of course.
He got to Nate and he stoppedand he started shuffling through
(36:53):
his cards and then he stoppedand he handed Nate a card and it
was the song by the Beatles.
It appeared on the Sgt Pepper'sLonely Hearts Club Band album
and it was being for the benefitof Mr Kite.
I had never heard of this song,even though I grew up in the
Beatles era.
I had never heard this song, soI went to my best friend, google
(37:15):
, who sent me to his best friend, wikipedia, and learned of the
background of this song and whatyou hear in the recording that
you think is an organ isactually a calliope.
Now, I what is a calliope?
Well, it's usually you heardthem in the circus.
It's like the organ that youhear, like during circus parades
(37:37):
.
It's a type of organ, but ithas a very particular sound.
Right, and I remember going tonate and I how the hell are you
going to get a calliope, youknow?
So he wound up researching, butI went because I was so
fascinated with the song andeven the background.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Because at one point John Lennon took pieces of it
and just tore it in scraps andthrew it on the floor and
reassembled it yeah.
It was such a fascinatingbackground to this song that I
put it on a piece of paper andlaminated it and gave it to Nate
.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
And.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I said here's the song you're doing, and he read
it and he became fascinated withthe background and he later
said to me that knowing thebackground to that song made all
the difference in the world tohim.
Well, he wound up doing theproject successfully.
He didn't find a calliope, buthe kind of replicated the sound
on a keyboard right and on mostof his projects he does lead
(38:30):
guitar, rhythm guitar, drums andhe gets a friend of his, a gal,
to come in.
That's the vocalist in his bandactually, and she comes in and
does the vocals, and now he'sstarting to even do keyboard,
and then you put it all togetherand you get.
You got a great great but.
I guess all of that I'm I'mtelling everyone is because if
you got a great grade but Iguess all of that I'm telling
everyone is because if you havea song that really resonates
(38:50):
with you, I encourage you tolook on Google and look up the
background of that song,understand why that artist chose
the lyrics they did, the tunethey did, maybe even the key
they did or the instrument theyplayed when they did it.
It will make that song, it willmake you own that song a lot
(39:10):
more and it will resonate withyou even deeper.
That was my point of the wholestory, but we all know I love
talking about my grandkids.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Well, yes, you should .
Speaker 2 (39:20):
So, and you will at some point as well, one day, yes
.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I know I wasn't ready either, but looking back, of
course I was, you're alwaysready.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Okay, fair enough, but I don't think I want to be
one tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
No, no, you don't have to be.
Generally it takes nine minutes, though, so you do have a
little bit of time.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
I'd like that, but not tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
So, at any rate, it's come time to say farewell to
our listeners today.
Wherever in the world you areand I know you're all over the
place I truly thank you fortuning in and listening.
Remember self-care, andself-care can be so simple as
playing that song that reallyresonates with you and make you
feel the feelings, because don'thold them in, they'll come out
(40:01):
eventually.
So choose when to come out Siton the couch, grab a glass of
wine or a cup of tea whateveryour choice is and close your
eyes, listen to the music andfeel all the feels and, by all
means, tune in again next weekas we all continue to live and
grieve.
Thanks a lot, ken.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Thank you so much for listening with us today.
Do you have a topic that you'dlike us to cover or do you have
a question from one of ourepisodes?
Please email us at info atasiliveandgrievecom and let us
know.
We hope you will find a momentto leave a review, send an email
and share with others.
Join us next time as wecontinue to live and grieve
(40:43):
together.
Welcome to as I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells
the truth about how hard thisis.
We're glad you joined us today.
We know how hard it is to losesomeone you love and how
well-intentioned friends andfamily try so hard to comfort us
.
We created this podcast toprovide you with comfort,
knowledge and support.
We are grief advocates, notprofessionals, not licensed
(00:22):
therapists.
We are you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hi everyone.
Welcome back again to anotherepisode of as I Live in Grief.
Yes, I've got another coldSeems.
I had one a couple months ago,but the weather up here in
upstate New York is just coldappropriate it really is.
So you'll have to pardon mygravelly voice and the
occasional cough if I do that.
But hey, you know it's me.
You've known me for four yearsnow.
(00:48):
With me today is Ken Rutley.
He is a delightful person andwe have become fast friends.
Ken, thanks so much for takingthe time to join me today.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, thank you so much for having me, Kathy.
I'm really looking forward tothe conversation that we have
sort of talked about previously.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
No, me too.
You know we always, whenever weget together, we start to talk
about our initial focus and thenwe kind of segue into who knows
what.
And that was no different today.
So we have focused now and hitthe record button.
So we're going to talk aboutmusic and grief.
So, ken, before we get started,would you just tell our
(01:25):
listeners a little bit aboutyourself?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I'd be happy to.
I guess the first place tostart is I've always been a
music fan and growing up as akid we as a family had a very
eclectic kind of musiccollection.
So I grew up listening to lotsof popular music from the 60s
and also listening to operas andmusicals and things of that
(01:49):
nature.
So I've always had a love formusic and all kinds of genres
and as I got older I sort ofgravitated to well, popular kind
of music, but other things aswell, and I guess I have a real
appreciation for differentgenres.
Some I like more than others Icould use.
I think we could say that aboutall of us right, but yeah.
So I've always kind of been amusic fan per se and I played
(02:13):
instruments in bands in highschool and and little garage
bands after I'd finished highschool and that kind of thing.
How we met was at Camp Widow inToronto back in November and I
remember sitting down beside youand we just kind of got talking
and I discovered that you had apodcast and you had you know
through that I had told you thatI have a podcast as well and my
(02:34):
podcast is about music, almostlike the traditional mixtape
from way back in the day, and sothat's what mine's about.
I'm new to being a widow.
I have two children, one 22 andone 17, both daughters and both
adopted from China, and we'reworking through, I guess, the
first year of not having Lindy,their mother and my wife around
(02:57):
anymore and just sort of thetransition I don't even want to
say transition, that's not theright word just the journey I
think that's the better wordthat we're having now is
challenging at times, but timeswe remember who she was and what
she did for us as a mother andas a wife and partner and just
good human being and that doeshelp us kind of get through the
(03:18):
tough times.
But it's a journey I neverthought I'd be taking and now
that I'm on it I realize youknow, once you become a widow
you really appreciate otherwidows and what they can do for
you, and that's really why we'rehere.
You and I met in Camp Widow andhere we are having a discussion
about how grief can sort ofsometimes be tempered or by
(03:38):
music.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, you know, we all know that with grief comes a
variety of symptoms, not theleast of which are anger,
sadness, just devastation.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Very true.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Sometimes joy, yes, when you latch onto that memory
that makes you smile.
Yeah, I know I have a bunch ofthose and for me, as time goes
on, I find myself probablysmiling more than crying and I
don't really know when thatevolution took place.
Like you, ken, music was a hugepart of my life as I was
(04:11):
growing up.
I was always in the churchchoir, I think probably from the
time I was six.
They had a children's choir andthen there was a youth choir
and then I was in the adultchoir.
I was in band.
In high school I playedclarinet.
I was in the band.
I was in concert band.
I was in march band.
I was in pep band.
I was in a clarinet ensemble.
(04:31):
Music was just a part of mylife, it just was.
I took piano lessons startingat the age of four until I was
about 14.
I could sit down now and playchopsticks and probably blunder
through a piece of sheet musicbut, it doesn't come naturally
to me.
I was always one that had topractice at it.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
But because of that and because of the many car
trips with family and my fatheralways had the radio- on and
would be singing.
He was in barbershop quartet inaddition to church choir, but
music was always a part of ourlives in addition to church
choir, but music was always apart of our lives, Everything
from music back in the 40s rightup to and including today's
music.
My older grandson, Nate, is ina band and they play a lot of
(05:14):
Guns N' Roses and Alice inChains and all of those, and
guess what?
This grandma's at every gigbecause music is part of my life
.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And I think it's wonderful that you have that
sort of supportive relationshipwith your grandson.
I'm just wondering what youwould be wearing at a heavy
metal gig or a hard rock gig.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Fortunately, the gigs he plays are local
establishments and they're morejust.
You know, I can wear my jeansand t-shirt.
I do have a slash t-shirt thathe bought me that I have not yet
been able to wear to a gigbecause it's recent.
He recently went to Torontowhen Slash was there, and
actually I gifted him with theVIP ticket for him and his mom,
(05:59):
who went with him, and mydaughter, stephanie, and they
got to sit into a what do theycall it?
The audio check.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Oh, soundcheck.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
The soundcheck, with Slash himself on stage and they
were like in the front row andvery close.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
And that was a treat for me, oh.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I could imagine.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
But yeah, the point is, music's always been a part
of my life and, withoutrealizing it, I found that I
would gravitate to differentmusic depending on what I was
feeling.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, I can share that with you.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And as I was a single mom this was a single mom due
to divorce back when my kidswere younger.
They would have troublesleeping at night, so I would
put classical music on, thingslike Moonlight Sonata or
something.
Yes, I found it relaxed them alittle bit.
They would focus on the melodyand they would just kind of doze
off, because that's what Iwould do as well.
If I needed to motivate myself,I would put something rousing
(06:51):
on.
You know, and I don't even know.
A lot of times I know the songs.
I may not know the title or theartist but that's just me.
I just know the feeling it givesme.
Lately I've been into a newalbum that's out by john
baptiste okay he took someclassical pieces and fused them
with jazz.
Oh, okay and it's a veryinteresting album and I just
(07:14):
love it.
And the reason jazz has comeback is because nate the
grandson again is.
He's a senior in college andhe's majoring in music the audio
production theory, so he'slearning to be a sound engineer
and all that to bolster hismusic career and he's also in a
jazz ensemble and has reallycome to enjoy jazz.
Oh okay, so we were talkingabout that.
(07:36):
That's really interesting Inyour podcast and everything.
What approach?
What's your angle on music?
Do you approach it like fromthe chart busters?
Do you approach it from artistby artist?
What's your approach?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
I still have a CD player which I use quite often.
So I have, I would say, amodest collection of CDs and I
(08:11):
also have some cassettes.
At one point in my possession Iactually had an 8-track player,
but I got rid of that because,one, it wasn't working, and two,
when you find 8-tracks in thevintage wild, vintage wild,
they'll call it or scroungingaround they are.
They're always really in badshape and and so you know you
(08:32):
really you're buying it for thenovelty of having it, but the
sound is.
That's why it's nice to be ableto buy cds.
Still, people don't want them,but oh yeah, but uh, and so
anyways, my, my podcast sort oftakes a theme.
So maybe the theme might bemovie soundtracks.
All right, so I'll curatewhat's in my collection and then
(08:52):
I'll take out songs, likemaking a mixtape.
So it's like, okay, I'm makingthis kind of mixtape for someone
who might be like this orwhatever.
And then you pick out the songsand then you curate them, songs,
and then you curate them andthen you put the, you sort of
plunk them in, and then I justtalk a little bit about the
background of the song or maybethe artist or or what, how I
(09:13):
feel it fits into the podcast.
And then, kathy, I'll letmyself stream one song, and the
one song I stream it is is kindof my way of saying, oh, I, I
cop, I stole this one off theradio.
Remember the day and you wouldhave no intro.
It would just cut in sharplyand you'd have, because the DJ
was talking at the beginning ofthe song.
So I count that as being ableto.
(09:36):
You know, stream a song or youborrow an album from somebody,
or what have you.
So anyway, so that's kind ofwhat it is.
It's a 12 song show and Istream it over, or I only stream
it on Spotify, for the veryreason that Spotify has an
agreement with artists that ifyou're podcasting, you can use
(09:56):
songs in their full, like thefull song.
That's what I want to say.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Really, yeah, without worrying about paying fees and
everything like that.
Yeah, yeah, so that's yes.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
So that's why I'm just kind of a Spotify podcaster
at this point, because thewhole underlying idea is that
you want to have the whole songthere, so you can sort of go
into a more in-depth kind ofexperience.
On a platform where you're onlyallowed to play a few seconds
or 30 seconds or whatever, itdoesn't have the same impact.
So, yeah, so I realize it,maybe less people will hear it,
(10:28):
but I think having the full songis really important to the
essence of what it is.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes, and let's face it, we don't always do
podcasting just so a number ofpeople can hear it.
Sometimes we do it just becausewe feel we have something to
say and we know that there areout there, there are listeners
that who want to hear.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah exactly, and it's I do it because you know
I'm retired now and I guess Ineed something to keep me out of
trouble, so that's what I'll bedoing right now.
It's on hiatus.
My wife died and my mother dieda few months previous to that,
so it was a long, kind of toughgo, and I just had to put that
(11:06):
particular passion on the backburner.
And now that things are,starting to, you know, get back
on track.
I'm thinking more and moreabout let's get this thing going
again, because I really enjoyedit.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yes, well, come on, let's give me credit here, ken,
you know I'm having you on thispodcast and that's giving you
the fever again.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
It has, it actually has.
You're on this podcast andthat's given you the fever again
it has.
It actually has.
I wake up every morning and Isay I can't let Kathy down, I
gotta get this episode togetheryeah, no, I well, you know what.
It has been nice to sort ofhave you know someone like you,
sort of you know take aninterest in it and make me sort
of rekindle the fire I had forthat.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Well, and I have to admit, if I was doing a podcast
just totally solo I probablywould have quit long ago.
But it's having guests everyweek that really keep it alive
for me because I love the peopleand I always learn something.
Okay, a question for you.
Music has been vital in yourlife?
Yes, and you recently actuallyhad two losses.
Yes, yes, did you turn to musicin your grief?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Heavily, heavily, especially with regard to Lindy,
my, my wife, you know it.
It has been a way for me torelease a lot of the emotion
that that comes with grievingand I.
I have a little playlist and Ihave several little playlists,
but one of them is called themissing you playlist and there's
(12:34):
songs that either remind me ofthings that we had done together
, you know as whether it be sheand I or as a family, and also
songs that just have that kindof quality of just you can't
help but let them allow that, orallow them to tap into what
you're feeling, and they justbring forth emotion, and a lot
of them are, you know what, uhkind of crying songs.
To be honest with you, yeah,and I will listen to that and it
(12:58):
will make me, you know, sort ofhave the desired effect it will
have the desired effect, butalso, not only that, it will
just.
It's almost.
You know, kathy, it's almostlike you have permission to
become emotional right likeyou're listening to a sad song
and some people find it verydifficult to show emotion and
that kind of thing, but if youhave it within that kind of
(13:20):
context, well, you're allowed tocry at a sad song, right and,
and so it kind of allows you alittle bit of leniency to be
vulnerable with yourself orwhatever right.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, I like that.
I think you may have coined anew phrase music is permission
to feel.
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
Thank, you.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I'm glad you did.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Did you find that it was only when you had a certain
type of feeling, like when youwere really sad or when you got
angry, or was it only with acertain feeling that you would
turn to music?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I don't know, I don't know if there's.
I think it's almost as if youknow how there's, the grieving
phases of grief.
Right, I still am very much inthe phase of missing her
desperately.
Still am very much in the phaseof missing her desperately and,
you know, waking up in a bedwhere it's now just instead of
(14:12):
the three of us, because I'mincluding the dog in there.
Yes, it's just the dog and Ithat wake up in the bed, and and
so there's, as you probablyknow.
You know you can't walk throughyour home without having
literally hundreds of memoriescome at you.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
It's like stubbing your toe.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah, and everywhere I look there's something of her
remains right.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yes, I think at this point it's almost like a bit of
a trend.
Maybe I'm going through atransitionary sort of phase, but
the first part was really sad.
Sad kind of songs and songsthat either the music itself I
found sad or the lyrics I foundsad.
In some cases the combination ofboth was something, and I
(14:58):
realized that every sad song youlisten to is written by the sad
person who wrote it.
And, having said that, you findlittle consistencies in every
song that speak to you verydirectly and it's almost like
you take those out.
And it's not even necessarilythe whole piece, but maybe those
little snippets that reallyresonate with you and that's
what I kind of find with myselfis there's either a lyric or a
(15:21):
passage.
It really means even morebecause it touches me so
personally and reminds me of somany things that were part of
our life together.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Right, and admittedly , that same phrase, those same
lyrics, could mean somethingentirely different to someone
else.
Absolutely Because music isvery personal.
Yes, okay, and we react to itmuch the way we grieve, totally
in a unique way.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yes, yeah, no, I couldn't agree with you more.
It was just that, and that'swhat I found when I was in
Toronto at the camp where weboth were.
Is that how unique eachperson's experience was right,
and then so how we were allthere because we lost a partner,
but just the stories there wereso different and and so, like
(16:07):
you say, the stories aredifferent, the grieving is
different and what you take froma piece of music will be
different as well, and verysimilar you know, personalized
to you, and I think that's whatmakes it so powerful, right.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, do you have a go-to song?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I actually do have one, and it's a song I've really
, as far as the grief contextgoes, it's a song I've really
I've listened to and has beenpart of my sort of inventory of
things I've always sort of, Iguess, relied on Maybe that's a
way of putting it.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith this.
It's a band from Los Angeles.
They're called Concrete Blonde.
(16:45):
Have you heard of ConcreteBlonde?
No, okay, well, maybe yourgrandson might know Concrete
Blonde.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
He probably does.
He knows it all yeah well,there you go.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
But Concrete Blonde has a song called Mexican Moon,
mexican, mexican Moon, mexicanMoon by Concrete Blonde, and
what the song is reallybasically about is that there's
this woman singing about, youknow, losing somebody and she's
in Mexico and she's singing thissong under the Mexican moon,
and just the intro itself for meis something that you know.
(17:14):
There's an acoustic guitar andit really draws me in.
And then the lead singer ofthis band her name is Jeanette
Napolitano or something andsomething along those lines.
Jeanette, if you ever hear this, my apologies to you, but she
has kind of like the Kathy Coldvoice and it's got a raspiness
(17:36):
to it, and the lyrics, her vocalstyle and just the composition
of the song itself can't helpbut get emotional when I hear
that song.
That's probably like my, mygo-to one.
Another song that I reallyquite like is by duran duran.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Okay, yeah I've heard of them, yeah and anyways, I'm
sure you have.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
I guess they're kind of.
We're kind of popular at onetime Still going by the way,
yeah, they were Still going.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Well, aren't they all ?
Aren't they all, some of them?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
yeah, still going.
Good for them.
And anyways, they have a songcalled Ordinary World.
I'm not sure, but that's alsoone worth checking out.
Just about going through yourlife after an event and
wondering when's it going to getback to being ordinary, or how
can you ever and almostrealizing that what does
(18:25):
ordinary even mean?
Right, and that kind of thingis.
And it's like when people sayoh, you know don't worry, ken,
we'll get back to normal.
Well, my normal was having Lindyin my life and that was my
normal.
Anything they should be sayingwell, don't worry, ken, it's
going to be abnormal soon yeah,well, I don't, you know, it'll
(18:46):
get.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Eventually it'll get to a point where it's ordinary
yeah it won't.
It'll never be the same.
No, it'll never be the same,but it'll be ordinary again yeah
, at some point yeah okay, offthe cuff question what emotion
do you have when one of thesesongs ends Wow, that's a good
question, I guess.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
sometimes it's the emotion of.
I guess there's a contentmentor a happiness, because maybe at
that particular time, as goingthrough the song, maybe the
lasting impression I have is apositive one, right, and so
maybe you get a little bit ofthat content, happiness, coming
out of it.
Sometimes they're like drinkingbeer as soon as you've had one
(19:27):
you're sad, so you have anotherone to keep that thing going,
because there has been timeswhere it's just kind of been
with you know a specific kind ora certain kind of day.
You know how it is.
Let's have another one, becauseI really need to kind of work
through some things.
So sometimes it's a lot of.
It can vary.
It really can vary.
Sure, today, what I'm startingto do now you might find this
(19:49):
interesting is I'm trying tofind one song each day to try
and see what my you know wrap up, maybe a quick impression of
emotions and feelings, you know,in the morning when I wake up.
And today's song was actuallyby Tom Petty and you probably
know the song, even the Losers,right.
So I woke up with that song inmy sort of nestled in my head,
(20:13):
because for me, the time when Imet Lindy, I know it was a time
for me where I was a little hardon myself, Okay.
And this song kind of talksabout this guy who meets someone
and realizes what this personmeans to him and what sort of
transpires from that.
And what I take from that isthat, you know I was at a
(20:33):
downtime.
I met a human being who I knowpersonally changed who I was as
a person and had the impressionon me of.
I know, without hesitation,that she motivated and supported
me in a way that allowed me tobecome a better human being, and
that's probably why I'm sodevastated that she's gone is
(20:55):
that she was such a positiveforce in my life.
And so, anyways, I waslistening to this Tom Petty song
because it was kind of like youknow what, I kind of lucked out
.
I was at a time where I wasreally down about myself and
wondering what was going to bemy life, and then I met somebody
who made me realize how specialit is to have an opportunity to
(21:18):
live on this planet and evenmeet somebody.
And that's what I sometimes sayto people.
They'll say oh my gosh,everything would be better if I
won the lottery, right?
Oh yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Yeah, but then I sort of you know my sort of response
is well, okay, so let's justlook at the odds of you just
being alive, let alone meetingsomeone else who just happens to
be alive, right, and you twogetting together and sharing
your life with one another, andthen at some point.
Maybe others share the lifewith you, children or what have
(21:50):
you?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
And you think of what are the odds of that?
And they're so infinitesimallyhuge right that you've already
won your lottery Absolutely.
And that's kind of what I sortof that's a great way to look at
it that's a great way to lookat it.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Okay, questions on mixtapes, because I realize that
some of our listeners mighthave heard the phrase yes, they
may not really know what is amixtape.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yes, in fact, I think , in this modern, the modern
context with them kids thesedays, I think it's kind of like
now it's yeah well it's aplaylist or a mixtape might be
something that an individualputs out as an independent kind
of record on their own,sometimes, I think, called a
mixtape.
So let's clarify for youraudience, however old they may
(22:34):
be or not be Quite a range,quite a range, okay.
In the old days.
When Kathy was a child yeah,well, okay, well, I don't know
if it's that far back, is it?
yeah, it is anyways, we hadthese goofy things called
cassettes, yeah, and we also hadrecords and and also other
(22:58):
cassettes.
So the thing is, if you wantedto share your music with someone
, you would say, oh, you know, Ihave a few songs I'd like to
share.
Or maybe you have a person thatyou're interested in and maybe
you say, oh, I made you amixtape which is it's almost
like pouring out your soul in away, depending on the context.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's like the notes you used to write in the
classroom when you were in gradeschool.
Absolutely.
Do you like me Check?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
yes, check.
No, or maybe my notes were morelike do you think you could
like me?
There you go, but anyway.
So you would get your cassetteand you would cue up your record
player and you would find thesong and you would drop the
needle on that song and startrecording, and then that goes on
(23:44):
to the cassette.
And so you would eithercontinue doing that with records
or sometimes some people werevery fortunate and had, you know
, dual cassette players.
Did you ever have one of those?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
So you could record songs off cassettes to other
cassettes and you would justmake a playlist, like I said
previously, from the music youhad access to and then you'd
make that playlist for whoeverit was, and then write down all
the songs on the paper insertthat came with every cassette
and you'd write down all thesongs and then, if you were
(24:16):
really maybe taken with theindividual you were giving the
tape to, you might cut some kindof uh picture out of a magazine
or draw something on there andcall it a something mix.
Right, yeah, it was like youalways call it the something mix
.
So it'd be like the walking ona rainy day mix and you know
you'd have your songs like that,either just a collection to
(24:37):
share with a friend or one's,professing your deep love, your
deep junior high school love ofa number of mixed tapes I I
received a number did you, I betyou did, I did, I never.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I never gifted any, though oh, I see.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
So every tape you got was like, yeah, this is nice,
but no, I'm not making one foryou I I never gifted one, no.
Yeah, well, that's kind of, youknow, that's kind of
interesting.
It's not too late.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
No, I think it's because I have trouble making
decisions, so I could neverdecide what songs I want to put
on.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Well, that's an excellent point.
You know, maybe you had toomuch access to music.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
You know you weren't one of those people who had like
okay, I've got 10 records.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
10 records and four tapes.
How do I make this work?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, and I remember actually and I'm certainly never
going to mention names, but Iremember actually recording over
some of the mixtapes that Ididn't like.
Okay, that's a story foranother day.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I can imagine Maybe next time, if I come on, we'll
talk about the mixtapes in mylife and why they caused me
grief.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
There we go.
That might make a good session.
So knowing now what a mixtape,is okay, and it's a series of
songs that mean something to you, that you might share with
someone.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And I think I mentioned this to you before.
But here's my challenge to youhow many songs are on a mixtape
approximately?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
well, okay, so it really depends, because back in
the day we could buy a 60 minutecassette or a 90 minute
cassette, right?
So well, you know that, right,I guess, yeah, it was 60 or 90
or whatever.
Yeah, so I would say you wouldprobably get anywhere like a 60
minute.
I'm thinking you'd probably,and it depends on the song,
(26:23):
because if you're putting onlike roundabout by, yes, that's
like one side of a tape, maybe,I don't know fair enough, but I
would say, a good number isprobably between uh, depending
on the cassette length, I thinkyou'd probably be talking about
12 to 20 songs okay, if we tookthe number 12 okay, I like.
That's what my show is about too.
12 songs, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Oh, yeah, you did say that okay, 12 songs related to
grief, but the challenge is tohave it start with the music
that will evoke tears okay, sotear music, yep okay and then
have it progress, almost like anombre color.
You know how color will go intie-dye.
(27:05):
You see it especially.
It'll go from, say, a deep,deep navy blue and then it
gradually changes shades untilit's a pale, pale pastel type
blue.
All right, have it go, an ombreeffect to the 12th song being
one that gives you hope or givesyou the empowerment to continue
(27:25):
on.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Okay, so you're saying that Does that make sense
?
Yeah, you could almost findspecific things related to grief
patterns or grief cycle.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, I mean the one that comes to mind is the fight
song.
This is my fight song, or eventake me to church, something
like that, I don't know, butthings like that, they would
certainly change from tone ofmusic key, everything pacing all
the way up.
But my thought is that as weprogress in our grief, our
(27:55):
periods of deep, deep sadness dolessen.
Decades of deep, deep sadness,yes, do lessen.
So at some point on a griefjourney it might be nice that if
you all of a sudden have thatday that you wake up and, oh my
gosh, the memories are justheavy, that feeling has just
come back, that you could putthis playlist, mixtape, whatever
you could put this on, and itwould help draw you out of that
(28:18):
sadness.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
And give you a little bit more optimism to go forward
into your day.
That's my thought.
I think that is a marketableitem.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
What are we discussing?
A business plan here, openly onyour podcast.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
We could be.
We could be, but I wonder ifsomething like that would be
effective.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I think, yes, it would be.
But here's the kind of thing Imight find it might be a little
challenging in that I'm actuallyreading an interesting book
right now called this Is whatMusic, or this Is what it Sounds
Like, and it's by this woman,susan Rogers, who was a producer
of records and things like that, and I'm realizing realizing
(29:01):
I'm reading her book thatbecause and as we said this
before, music is so personal, Imight create a playlist at you
and I think it's oh, this isfantastic, da-da-da-da-da, and
then another person might say,oh, what a horrible tune for me
you know.
So that would be I think thechallenge and they were she was
(29:22):
talking in her book about, likethe, the triple crown in music
is having the respect of critics, having the respect of other
musicians and also having theappeal to the public.
And she said very few artistscan hit the triple crown right
Because there are some that arefantastic with the public but
other musicians wouldn't reallyrespect them right.
(29:44):
Or there's ones that are maybemusicians like or what have you
in the public song, but thecritics will say this is really
not that great an album.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And so you have.
What do critics know?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yeah, that's what.
There you go.
I didn't put them in uh.
I didn't list them in uh orderof hierarchy for critics.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Everybody hates them right you, you want the
listeners first, because they'rethe ones that are going to pay
them, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
but then again, you know, it's kind of like when you
think about it, there's alsothe side of you know, when you
say that, oh, uh, you want thelisteners, a lot of musicians
would say yeah, but by doingthat I'm giving up my creativity
, right?
So I have to put out somethingthat people would love to, let's
say, consume for no otherbetter for lack of a better word
(30:30):
but maybe don't honor theirintegrity, right?
So it's really, it's morecomplicated than I realized from
reading this book.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Well, it is it is, and any type of creativity is
that way.
Writing a book is the same way.
Who are you writing for?
Who's your audience?
Podcasting is that way when youthink about it, who's your
audience?
And you just do what you feelis right and go on with it until
it proves otherwise.
Fortunately, there's no moneywriting on this podcast, so this
(31:00):
is really, truly, my gift toeveryone.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Well, it's a lovely gift.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And that's why I don't have ads.
I don't want it interruptedbecause I think grief is a topic
where you shouldn't have paidads sponsored ads in there.
And who's going to advertiseFuneral homes?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
I don't like listening to those ads on the TV
.
That's just me personally.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Oh yeah, I could go off on a tangent for that one.
Yeah, that's right.
Lots of advertisers likeFuneral Homes.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah, kathy, put the soapbox away, at any rate, I
think.
For me personally, it would beinteresting to have that
playlist.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah, or even have it as this is what is resonating
for me, or this is the way I seeit.
And then someone inevitably isgoing to say oh well, that's an
interesting idea, but I thinkI'd personalize it to me by
maybe keeping some of these, butI would add this in here, or
add that in there, right?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Well then, maybe the business becomes creating a
personalized mixtape.
Yeah, that's a service youcould sell.
I'm trying to give you somebusiness idea.
I know I like it.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
I just, I just didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I didn't realize I was going into a business, I
didn't either I didn't either,but see, that's what we talked
about the podcast and how Idon't use a script.
Yeah, that's what organicsolutions do?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I think it's anyway, at any rate, our time is winding
down, so what I want to do atthis point is turn the
microphone over to you Okay.
And just let you have the floor.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Sure, if something I say triggers your curiosity,
feel free to jump in, because,as you said previously,
sometimes when you're justtalking on your own, you're kind
of like when you start to haveto focus on listening just to
yourself, it becomes a littlebit like I don't know why anyone
would want to listen to me inthe first place.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I hear you yes.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
All right, so just a little bit.
I'll talk a little bit about mypodcast.
The podcast, as I said, is onSpotify and the title of the
podcast is called Scratch Made aMixtape and it's just basically
an exploration of anappreciation of having music in
physical forms and how thatexperience now is starting.
(33:15):
You know it's having resurgence, but it's about the fact that
you go and you take an album outof your collection and you
slide it out of the album cover,the jacket, and there's liner
notes and there's lyrics, and so, as you are having this
experience of listening to thissong or this album, you get
(33:37):
taken up with the other elementsthat are there, like the album
art, or with the liner notes,and you find out about the band
and you know those kind ofthings, and I think that's so
much more.
It's a fuller experience thanjust going through screening,
going through a screen up anddown or whatever, and then point
(33:58):
putting your finger on a songand instantly it's there.
And I had an interestingconversation with a friend
recently and her daughter hasstarted to get into vinyl
records and they have aturntable at their house and
she's kind of like, well, how doI skip to the next song.
And no, you don't.
You just you go and you hearwhat's there and you listen to
(34:19):
it in a order that was verydeliberate.
And so the whole point of thatthe podcast is to appreciate
music in physical forms whetherit's cassette, record, compact
disc but also going through whatyou have and touching on what's
inside you to be to honor thetheme that might be of that
(34:40):
mixtape.
So one of the tapes I did wasabout my mother and I and the
music we listened to and themusic she listened to in her
youth, because she grew up as ayoung Japanese woman during the
Second World War.
So she has some interestingstories during war and post-war
and just some of the music thatshe enjoyed from that particular
(35:01):
era as well, and so it's justreally a celebration of a older
media format so that people ofthis day and age kind of know
what was involved in making aplaylist.
It's kind of like teachingsomeone how to make bread right,
the process of it, yeah, andthen you just don't go to the
(35:22):
store and say, oh, this one hassesame seeds.
You go oh the whole thing was aprocess right, and by going into
the process a process like thatone or making a mixtape it also
reflects a little bit on whoyou are and what your motives
might be, or whatever else youknow emotionally goes into that,
(35:44):
while you kind of curate andtry and find just that right
piece to put in there.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, yeah, and a personal story I have to inject.
Nate older grandson is incollege and he's majoring in
music audio production theory.
I don't know if that's theactual, but anyway, a lot of his
projects, if you will, for hismusic classes, are that the
professor will give them a songgive each student a song and it
is their job to recreate it,which means they have to find
(36:12):
the instrumentalists, thevocalists and everything and
they have to record those tracksand then they have to mix those
tracks and come out with areproduction.
Well, that's one thing, andmost times, you know, they get a
song that they know orsomething like that.
There was one project lastsemester, last semester, last
year I don't know he's in hisfinal year At any rate, he came
(36:32):
home and said he had a project,and I always thrive as soon as
he tells us about a project.
I just love hearing about it.
And he was given.
He said his professor came tohim he had different songs on
index cards and he was justpassing them out to students and
he got to Nate, who's been onthe Dean's list, of course.
He got to Nate and he stoppedand he started shuffling through
(36:53):
his cards and then he stoppedand he handed Nate a card and it
was the song by the Beatles.
It appeared on the Sgt Pepper'sLonely Hearts Club Band album
and it was being for the benefitof Mr Kite.
I had never heard of this song,even though I grew up in the
Beatles era.
I had never heard this song, soI went to my best friend, google
(37:15):
, who sent me to his best friend, wikipedia, and learned of the
background of this song and whatyou hear in the recording that
you think is an organ isactually a calliope.
Now, I what is a calliope?
Well, it's usually you heardthem in the circus.
It's like the organ that youhear, like during circus parades
(37:37):
.
It's a type of organ, but ithas a very particular sound.
Right, and I remember going tonate and I how the hell are you
going to get a calliope, youknow?
So he wound up researching, butI went because I was so
fascinated with the song andeven the background.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Because at one point John Lennon took pieces of it
and just tore it in scraps andthrew it on the floor and
reassembled it yeah.
It was such a fascinatingbackground to this song that I
put it on a piece of paper andlaminated it and gave it to Nate
.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
And.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I said here's the song you're doing, and he read
it and he became fascinated withthe background and he later
said to me that knowing thebackground to that song made all
the difference in the world tohim.
Well, he wound up doing theproject successfully.
He didn't find a calliope, buthe kind of replicated the sound
on a keyboard right and on mostof his projects he does lead
(38:30):
guitar, rhythm guitar, drums andhe gets a friend of his, a gal,
to come in.
That's the vocalist in his bandactually, and she comes in and
does the vocals, and now he'sstarting to even do keyboard,
and then you put it all togetherand you get.
You got a great great but.
I guess all of that I'm I'mtelling everyone is because if
you got a great grade but Iguess all of that I'm telling
everyone is because if you havea song that really resonates
(38:50):
with you, I encourage you tolook on Google and look up the
background of that song,understand why that artist chose
the lyrics they did, the tunethey did, maybe even the key
they did or the instrument theyplayed when they did it.
It will make that song, it willmake you own that song a lot
(39:10):
more and it will resonate withyou even deeper.
That was my point of the wholestory, but we all know I love
talking about my grandkids.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Well, yes, you should .
Speaker 2 (39:20):
So, and you will at some point as well, one day, yes
.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I know I wasn't ready either, but looking back, of
course I was, you're alwaysready.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Okay, fair enough, but I don't think I want to be
one tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
No, no, you don't have to be.
Generally it takes nine minutes, though, so you do have a
little bit of time.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
I'd like that, but not tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
So, at any rate, it's come time to say farewell to
our listeners today.
Wherever in the world you areand I know you're all over the
place I truly thank you fortuning in and listening.
Remember self-care, andself-care can be so simple as
playing that song that reallyresonates with you and make you
feel the feelings, because don'thold them in, they'll come out
(40:01):
eventually.
So choose when to come out Siton the couch, grab a glass of
wine or a cup of tea whateveryour choice is and close your
eyes, listen to the music andfeel all the feels and, by all
means, tune in again next weekas we all continue to live and
grieve.
Thanks a lot, ken.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Thank you so much for listening with us today.
Do you have a topic that you'dlike us to cover or do you have
a question from one of ourepisodes?
Please email us at info atasiliveandgrievecom and let us
know.
We hope you will find a momentto leave a review, send an email
and share with others.
Join us next time as wecontinue to live and grieve
(40:43):
together.
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