September 13, 2023 • 55 mins
As a competitor at the Pokémon World Championships in Japan, NHoff highlights her personal mission to bring representation to underrepresented communities in Pokémon GO PvP. Her journey, from breaking barriers to discovering the magic of Pokémon in Japan, showcases the power of the game to unite diverse communities. This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about Pokémon, PvP, and the global impact of the franchise.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Hernandez (00:00):
My name is David Hernandez, and you're
(00:01):
listening to As the PokeballTurns.
(00:44):
Welcome to As the PokeballTurns, where the stories are
real and people still play thisgame.
When I was a senior in highschool, I remember I had a shirt
that was given to me for studentcouncil that read on the back,
why follow and read this shirtwhen you can lead and see so
much more.
It imprinted the idea of bothleadership and forging one's own
path, a trait that is usuallyadmired in our western world.
(01:06):
As many of us follow our ownpaths, whether we are discussing
Pokemon or professionally, wegive courage for others to do
the same, especially those whocan relate to our own stories,
struggles, or perhaps our ownethnicity, gender, or race.
Having that connection with arole model is important because
it gives people hope that theycan be more than what they
thought possible.
(01:27):
My guest today is motivated bybeing an example for both women
and trans members within thePokemon community.
In spite of all her battlingaccomplishments, she places more
value on improving theexperiences for both women and
trans members within thecommunity, particularly when it
comes to PVP.
From Boston, Massachusetts,here's her origin story into the
(01:48):
world of Pokemon Go.
This is...
NHoff.
today I'm joined by NHoff.
She has qualified for 2023 WorldChampionship and is heavily
involved with both GO Stadiumand GirlsThatPVP.
NHoff, I'm happy to finally haveyou on the show.
Welcome.
NHoff (02:04):
Thank you so much, David.
Yeah, it's an honor to be on.
I'm really excited to talk aboutall kinds of things Pokemon Go
PvP and it should be a greattime.
David Hernandez (02:14):
Definitely.
before we dive into PvP, like,where did your journey with
Pokemon Go start?
Like, when did you first startplaying?
NHoff (02:19):
so I'm a day one, at least in the states, player, so
I believe that's July 7th.
July 6th was if you did, theAustralian APK, I didn't quite
do that, but first day it wasavailable here, I was out
playing, catching those Pidgeysand not much else.
I remember, that first week,more game crashes than able to
(02:40):
actually play the game.
going around and catching, youknow, a bunch of the same,
getting so excited catching yourfirst lapras, all those really
good.
You know, 2016 vibes.
Evolving Vaporeon to put intothe gym and then I played it for
about a year and a half.
and similar story to a lot ofplayers, took some time away
from the game.
(03:00):
the features weren't reallycoming out at a rapid pace like
we have them now.
between like end of 2017 andlike mid 2019, I came back right
before Mudkip Community Day andhave played since.
told myself if I get back intoPokemon Go, I'm gonna go deep
into it.
(03:20):
And PVP was really interestingto me, so I was a bit of time
after, PVP was introduced, butstarted with Silph Season 2 with
the Sinister Cup was my firsttournament.
I actually tied for first at myfirst tournament I ever played
in PVP, and obviously, have notlooked back since.
it's my Favorite aspect of thegame, and, really love what it
(03:43):
does in terms of buildingcommunity, and the game itself
is really fulfilling to me hasreally been enjoyable, and the
game becoming a larger part ofmy life is actually something
I've, really enjoyed.
David Hernandez (03:54):
So, for those initial days, you talked about,
trying to get a Vaporeon to putin the gym.
You talked about trying to get aLapras.
Were you just, out trying tohunt these Pokemon?
Like, Lapras was pretty hard tohatch back in those days.
NHoff (04:04):
Yeah, so, Lapras, I remember hatching my first one.
in terms of catches, obviouslythe storyline is the dragonite.
And I remember, finding acouple, or like seeing people at
the local park all running toone location which, the only
time you really see it now islike at a Go Fest when there's a
hundo, I saw it.
(04:24):
in New York, there was a HundoDratini, and you see everyone
rush over, but that was just forany given Dragonite spawn back
in the day.
so I remember those, and thencatching Eevees, and going for
the 1 in 3 roll of Vaporeon.
But there wasn't a ton else tohunt, because so many things
were either, locked to eggs...
(04:45):
raids weren't in the game yet,it was just gyms to defend, or
regionals.
And, that was before we had alot of these events based on the
game that get you to go all overthe world.
So I know we're going to get toJapan later, but like getting a
Farfetch'd just wasn't feasible.
I think, a large reason why alot of players, took a time away
from the game and now it's somuch, in my opinion, so much
(05:07):
better in terms of Interestingthings to hunt.
I can go for a walk, especiallywith adventure incense as well,
which is one of my favoriteadditions to the game.
I can potentially get somethinglike a Vullaby or a Rockruff
from my adventure incense, andthat's exciting, like that
brings back some of that wonderin a way that we didn't even
really have in 2016 because itwas like Dragonite, maybe like a
(05:29):
Hitmonchan was really exciting.
I don't remember if those evenspawned or if they were from
eggs, but like things that arestill a little bit rarer.
but that was about it, and thentrying to evolve your strongest
Eevees into Vaporeon and hopingthey got the right moves, too.
David Hernandez (05:44):
Oh, yes, that's before TMs.
I remember, like you said, like,all we had back in the day was
really just a grind.
I think the rare catches back inthose days was definitely
Snorlax, Chansey, if you got theevolution starters, like,
Venusaur, Charizard, Blastoise,that would get people running
and Dratini, of course.
I get what you're saying towhere like nowadays those spawns
are more, there's more differenttype of spawns and you get to
(06:05):
more like rare spawns, if you'relucky.
NHoff (06:08):
and the advent of things like nests, which I don't think
were in the game at thebeginning of the game, or if
they were, they were just verylimited in what was available in
nests.
the idea of, oh, my local nestis a Pokemon that I want to
grind XL for?
I'm gonna stop by it for a fewdays in the next week.
I remember, later on, like acouple years back, my local park
(06:29):
became an Onix nest and I reallywanted a good shiny Onix for, a
shiny Steelix for PvP.
And that was just reallyexciting, that was something to
grind.
So just like adding all of thoseaspects to make Things a little
bit more interesting has justbeen really nice.
David Hernandez (06:46):
Before Pokemon GO, what was your experience
with Pokemon?
NHoff (06:49):
I started with generation 2 Back in the day with silver
and crystal were the two Gamesthat I had so my first starter
was Cyndaquil and then I playeda good deal of that and then
Pokemon Sapphire released.
to this day, Hoenn is myfavorite region, Sapphire and
(07:11):
Emerald as well.
And then the remakes as well,Omega Ruby, Alpha Sapphire, are
my favorite mainline Pokemongames.
I just was...
So and for all the upgrade invisuals and in like depth to the
game in Generation three havingdouble battles, having weather
in game, and just Pokemon.
Hoenn is one of my favoritePokedexes in terms of what's
(07:34):
available Even beyond the, Hoenndecks, things like, Skarmory,
like Slugma from Johto, that arejust not really explored in that
region, and then brought intoHoenn, I think it's just
incredible and I dumped so manyhours into Sapphire, restarting
my save, playing it over andover again.
and then I played Pearl, andthen I, again, like many Pokémon
(07:57):
players, dipped out for a while.
Pokemon Go was actually my reentry to the series.
to this day, I have not playedGenerations 5, 6, or 7, in their
main versions, or, none of themhave remakes yet, but, I will,
whenever...
We get a remake of Unova, Kalos,and Alola, and I plan to play
(08:18):
them at some point regardless.
But that was like my gap.
I played heavily Gens 2 and 3,and side games as well.
I played, XD is one of myfavorite spinoffs still.
And then Pokemon Go released, Ijumped heavily back into the
franchise, and I've reallyenjoyed it since.
I've played.
I had Sword, and now I haveScarlet, and really enjoyed,
(08:40):
Pokemon Legends Arceus, pokemonOmega Ruby, Alpha Sapphire, as I
said, that was actually my firstgame back.
And then, Oh, Let's Go Pikachuand Eevee, and Pokemon Brilliant
Diamond and Shining Pearl.
So, basically, oh, and NewPokemon Snap, and Unite as well.
So, like, since getting, heavilyinto Go, I've just dove back
into the franchise, everyrelease has been interesting to
(09:02):
me in some way and I found itreally enjoyable.
David Hernandez (09:05):
you know, I'm always a fan when I find
somebody comes on the show andthey say gen 3 was her favorite
cuz that was my Favorite toobecause gen 3 like you said the
Pokedex was very differential,the terrain was different, you
had the volcano you therainforest.
you got a piece of everydifferent type of terrain
possible.
Now I know the biggest criticismis all the water and everything,
but me, I like that, like theextra water.
(09:25):
Cause it adds a lot of mysterythat you really, obviously,
there's a limit to how much youget to explore in the game, but
it gives you the idea of thatthere's more compared to what
you experienced.
NHoff (09:34):
I am a big, Hoenn being water based defender.
I think that there's a lot ofinteresting elements to that,
especially when you introducedive as a mechanic.
And I think that all the townsbased around the water are
really great.
You have...
Mossdeep with the, Twin Gym.
You have the ice area, ShoalCave, north of that.
(09:56):
You have Sootopolis, which isstill, one of the coolest cities
in Pokemon, in my eyes.
and then Pacifidlog as well, anentire aquatic city.
So I understand if you're, like,big on the whole, oh, I don't
want to face fifteen Tentacruelone after the other after the
other.
and oh, I have to use repels,but like, it's no different than
going through a cave for a routewhere you have Zubats over and
(10:20):
over.
grass routes can be nice becauseyou can avoid some encounters,
but like...
I'm all for it, especially thatlate in the game.
you should have some level of,difficulty there, and I don't
really think it's that seriousunless people just get, annoyed
by it, which I can understand,but I really like the water half
of Hoenn.
Obviously love the land half ofHoenn as well, Lavaridge is, my
(10:41):
favorite, Pokemon town at all,Flannery was my favorite Pokemon
character until Gen 9, And stillis one of my, favorites of the
entire franchise.
So, lots that I really loveabout this region.
David Hernandez (10:54):
My last thing on the ocean part of Hoenn, even
Pacific log, it's not fullydeveloped, it's not fully
explored, like.
It's a very small forgettabletown, I'll be honest,
NHoff (11:05):
Yeah.
David Hernandez (11:05):
you think about Mirage Island, that popping up
randomly, as long as yourbattery didn't die in Gen 3, we
don't know why it appeared.
It's right next to Sky Pillarwhere Rayquaza's at, and then
when you read the text from allthe people who live in the town,
They talk about how, I thinkthey were originally, explorers
looking for some kind ofancient, Pokemon or something
like that, which eventually, ifyou go further west, you find
(11:27):
out it's the Regis.
there's just so much depth tojust a small island.
And plus, I like the idea towhere it's I think it's,
abandoned, how can I word it?
You know what I'm talking about,to where you're walking on,
little, wood, I forget how thehouses I can't even remember the
foundation the houses were builton.
NHoff (11:41):
Yeah, but it's like rafts and floatsome.
David Hernandez (11:43):
There we go.
Yes, those, exactly.
And then the town, it's been acouple generations since the
original ancestors.
And they kind of remember, butit's become more that folklore
kind of style thing.
NHoff (11:54):
you're touching on also like just the lore of the Hoenn
region.
I love the...
I love Jirachi.
It's my favorite mythicalPokemon.
I really like a lot of, like,space based Pokemon.
So, Rayquaza, Deoxys, all ofthis, is really interesting.
Latias is probably my secondfavorite Legendary behind Tapu
Fini, of course.
There's, just a lot that Ireally like, from the mythos of
(12:17):
Hoenn as well.
David Hernandez (12:18):
Last question about Hoenn, I promise.
If you're gonna do a playthroughfor Hoenn, what six Pokemon
would you choose?
NHoff (12:24):
Ooh so that one's tough because I like a lot of Pokemon
that are like Later on, andalso, I'm bad in variety because
I love so many different groundtypes.
I would probably pick, Swampertas my starter.
I love all three Hoenn starters,I think it's one of the best
fleshed out regions in terms of,first partner Pokemon.
(12:45):
I love, Swampert.
I think Aggron is one of thecoolest, like, early route
Pokemon that you can get.
definitely picking up Torkoal.
Torkoal is my favorite fire typeto this day, used it on all of
my VGC teams as well.
Flygon's just one of myfavorites from Hoenn as well.
I'm gonna pick up Skarmory,probably my only, non Hoenn
(13:06):
Pokémon, and I'm doubling up onSteel, and I already doubled up
on Ground, but I think it'spretty fun.
And then, I would pick up aCastform.
I've never actually done aplaythrough with a Castform, but
I've really grown to loveCastform through Pokemon Go, and
I just think it's a really fun,Pokemon.
I like its idea a lot.
I love its, incorporation intoHoenn.
(13:27):
It's never been, like, a hugefavorite of mine, but I've
picked up rainy Castform inlike, draft tournaments.
it can just be an interestingpick in a team of six.
I would probably opt for it as,Snowy Castform, like, I would
try to do, a Hail, setup.
Just because of how that workswith the team's weaknesses and
because, I've used a lot ofRainy and Sunny Castform in Go.
(13:48):
I like Snowy Castform, it'sjust, unfortunately is the only
one without any coverage in Goand it would be cool.
It would force me to playsomething different.
Cause I've done a lot of like,Oh, I'm just gonna run, You
know, my starter, Aggron, whichlike, Aggron's great.
and some other big Pokemon on myteam.
so Castform's a little bit morechallenging to use.
David Hernandez (14:09):
So you said how you left the Pokemon series for
a bit after gen 4, which pearlWhy did you stop playing?
NHoff (14:17):
Just like, moving out of childhood, so to speak, starting
to get the stigma between peersof Oh, Pokemon's not that cool
anymore, and also like justdifferent priorities in life.
it wasn't even necessarily tonsindividually that changed.
I think it was also like movingfrom the DS, I tapered off,
gaming in general and then Ipicked it up a lot more than
(14:40):
later on in life.
David Hernandez (14:41):
that's fair I think we all struggle with
trying to find that especiallyaround that age when we're
growing up We feel like weshould just put it to the side,
but reality we probably shouldhave just I don't know I get I
think we all go through thatstage to where we feel like
we've probably grown out of itWe should stop doing it,
especially, you know with ourgeneration, you know the ones
before It was childish to stilldo stuff like that.
So we're first ones.
(15:02):
I say we, but people who grew upin the nineties, I would say
were the first ones to hold ontothose kind of childhood,
Pokemon, Digimon, Yu Gi Oh isdifferent ones.
Of course it's different brands,but we still play Pokemon to
this day and it's because wegrew up with it.
NHoff (15:15):
Definitely! There's just a hold to it.
And it's, it's actuallysomething that I've been talking
with people a lot aboutrecently.
It's the commitment to the brandin whatever shape it takes
like...
It's so powerful and it's justso enjoyable.
There's not really anything fromPokemon as a brand that I've
disliked.
things that I like more thanothers, of course.
(15:37):
I have played, Pokemon Go,obviously, extensively.
I've played a lot of the mainseries games as well, but I
haven't, super watched theanime.
But, It's not that I dislike it.
I, everything I've seen of it,I've liked.
It's just a matter of time andall.
David Hernandez (15:50):
let's fast forward back to 2016.
So Pokemon go comes out in 2016.
You play for a year and a half.
You put the game down cause it'sjust not as interesting.
You come back after Mudkipcommunity day.
what brought you back to Pokemongo Was it the PVP aspect or was
it something else?
NHoff (16:05):
so what brought me back to the game was actually moving
to Philadelphia.
I played...
the game in more of a urbansetting when I started the game
up in northern Pennsylvania atthe city that I went to college.
I moved back into a moresuburban part of Pennsylvania
and just dropped off and then mysignificant other at the time
and myself moved into the heartof Philadelphia, and I was like,
(16:27):
well, I want to be a bit moreactive, and I really enjoyed
Pokemon Go when I used to playit.
Let's see if I can give it a redownload.
Didn't look back, obviously,until current day.
I'm still playing the game.
So, that was the big driver, waslike, I know this game is more
enjoyable in a city.
I know I put it down because Iwas in a less urban setting and
(16:47):
with PvP added and having thecommunity element, it just was
great.
And I, really enjoyed it since.
And that was even before like GoBattle League was a thing.
it's only improved since.
David Hernandez (16:59):
So, when you came back, did you like, find
people right away?
Like, would you go to downtownor the parks to try to find
people to play?
Or would you just be a soloplayer?
NHoff (17:07):
I would play, so my significant other at the time
would play with me now and then,but she was never a hardcore
player.
she would just, play communityday with me, and now and then
you unlock, so I would usuallyplay solo, and still to this day
like A good chunk of my play issolo.
I'll usually go into the BostonCommons for an event, for a
(17:28):
community day, or a spotlighthour, and if I see people there,
you know, I see people there.
at that time, I was involved indiscords and such and that's how
I got incorporated with thecommunity for like, my first
tournament, Sinister Cup, and soon.
But, yeah, I was mainly a soloplayer.
I would see people attournaments and then not until
the next tournament, really.
which was interesting, it wasalso very interesting, the
(17:49):
people that you get to meet,because, I was locals with House
Stark at the time, and, like,the mythos that gets built up
about these players, and, nowI'm on a team with Stark, and,
like, talk to him all the time,and it's just, it was an
interesting dynamic of early PvPkind of structure, of, not
everyone's communicating witheveryone else all the time, or
seeing them at events, and Itwas charming, looking back, it
(18:11):
was really, neat to have thatkind of hold.
David Hernandez (18:15):
You alluded to where you started playing PVP
with Sinister Cup.
Was Silph Road where you learnedhow to get better at PVP?
NHoff (18:22):
Well, for Silph, definitely, but I have to give a
shout out, as always, to,Matthew, the developer of
PvPoke.
I am always a very heavyanalyst.
I love diving into the data, andPokémon Go PvP is a game that
has so much data behind it,like, it's something that we,
especially high level players,take for granted, we're just
(18:42):
like, this is how this works,and, because you have so much
knowledge already, you take itfor granted.
But, the Sinister Cup, timeline,PvPoke did not have the Team
Builder tool yet, and it did nothave, the matrix function to
what we see, today, where youcan just, like, easily sim
against the meta.
I did so much of my training forthat, using the PVPoke training
(19:05):
tool, because I didn't knowanyone to scrim.
tied for first in that firsttournament, I think it
officially shows up as gold onmy Silph card.
Never looked back.
Was so into it.
Said, when's the next tournamentthat I can drive to?
Like, one of the locals fromthat tournament, IVpips, who's
the developer for PokeNav aswell, so shout out to him.
immediately was like, looking toscrim with me, like, became
(19:26):
really close friends, we'reteammates now as well and really
great camaraderie, and peoplewho were also just super
interested in data, like, someof these early conversations,
Around the game, like, it's hardto put yourself in the mindset
before GBL, before PvP info wasas widespread as it is now.
I remember talking to HouseStarkat an event and it was like
(19:49):
getting to the point wherereturn had just been changed
into a heavy damage move, itwasn't a bait anymore And
sableye had been like releasedinto the rocket pool and like we
knew that sableye was good.
him and I were talking aboutlike hey, do you think return
would be a good move on sableyeto keep?
Because it gives you that foulplay return coverage.
people are doing all thesetrades for Lucky Sableye because
(20:11):
it was useful in the game, butwhat if we went specifically for
purified ones?
And now, like, common knowledgethat you want to run a purified
Sableye, also completelydifferent because it's not one
that you want lucky anymore, butlike, the kind of, tribal
information share.
While it's really bad for,making the game accessible, it
was really charming at the time,and looking back at that time.
David Hernandez (20:32):
that makes sense because back in those
days, it was always like thoserumors.
I remember back when Pokemonfirst came out, you don't know
the rumors like Same thing withPVP to where news was passed by
is Oh, I heard this from othersources.
And this is before keep in mindfor people listening.
I believe this is even beforePVP content creators really
became a thing, right?
Because at the time, it was justmostly Silph Arena and It wasn't
as big as GBL became.
NHoff (20:54):
No, you're, you're entirely correct.
one of the people I'm goodfriends with to this day, but is
the only, one of, like, maybethree or four creators that made
PvP content at that point intime and still does today is
Alfindeol.
the biggest inspiration to megetting into streaming and
content creation, one of myclosest friends, I'm still A
very dedicated mod in his streamand in his Discord, but
(21:18):
Alfindeol made Silph streams, hewould do scrims with people on
stream.
And it was right when I, like,got heavily back into PvP, I
was, like, looking for, PokemonGo on Twitch.
And it was compare it to now, wewould have maybe six people
streaming Pokemon Go, averageof, fourteen viewers.
we see people all the time nowbe like, Oh, the category is
(21:38):
dead.
We're at an average of 300people watching the category at
it's minimum.
And there's only 20 streamerslive right now.
not to disparage those takes oranything like that, Like, you
can definitely chart Twitch,usage is and all that.
But like, just looking back atthat era, like, it was so
different, and the treatment ofcontent was so different.
(21:58):
again, like, stuff that was kindof charming.
Another, another longtimecreator, as well, Debbie Pebble.
One of my favorite people in thecommunity.
Debbie's a really great,streamer and content creator
from Australia and she wouldstream now and then.
Obviously like GBL was sodifferent, but that was huge in
capturing me and my interest inPvP.
It was like, oh, a bunch ofother people that like to have
(22:20):
fun with this.
David Hernandez (22:21):
earlier you said Alfindeol is the reason why
you wanted to stream.
What was it about, being part ofthis community or just observing
him that kind of motivates youto want to start your own Twitch
stream?
NHoff (22:32):
I've been a Twitch viewer for an extremely long time and I
want to say my Twitch accountis...
11, if not 12 years old at thispoint.
back in those days, it wasentirely to watch League of
Legends and LCS.
I've always really enjoyedwatching streams, the kind of
environment, that it cultivateswith, having a chat community,
to be able to share this gamewith, whatever game it is that
(22:53):
you enjoy, sharing that withyour chat and watching
Alfindeol, the way that heengaged with chat, the way the
conversational aspect of PokemonGo, being a much smaller game
than something like League ofLegends or Hearthstone, which
I've also watched a good deal ofand enjoyed.
made the chat experience reallygreat like I've watched a ton
of, what people will call Papegastyle streams where it's a lot
(23:15):
of chatter is spamming and thatcontent can be super enjoyable,
but I also really love like anintimate, streamer chat
experience and environment andthat's something that I really
thought that.
I could engage with as well,especially in a category that I
didn't really see a ton of womenengaged with.
There's, Debbie Pebble, and thiscomes back to, Pokemon Go's
(23:36):
player base, especially GoPBP'splayer base being extremely male
dominated, and then further,like, who's willing to put
themselves out there?
I wanted to be that example, bethat change that I could be.
in the, category.
And again, shout out to peoplelike Debbie Pebble to people
like Momita.
we have wonderful, lovely womenwho create content in this
(23:58):
catergory.
I'm not going to be extensivewith this, but you can
definitely find, really greatfemale content creators who make
great experiences for them andtheir viewers and to me, it's,
it's just the most enjoyableform of content creation.
I've made video content.
I've made a ton of graphiccontent and I love that as well,
but I just really find theTwitch stream, environment just
(24:19):
really charming.
David Hernandez (24:20):
How has being a part of Girls at PVP changed
your experience with Pokemon and
NHoff (24:25):
Yeah! again, have been on Twitch and in, competitive
gaming since 2011.
especially as, as a trans woman,like, being able to see, how
women have been treated ingaming over, over a decade.
And...
obviously, League of Legends,especially early League of
Legends, very toxic environment,like, I knew firsthand, like,
(24:46):
how bad gaming can be, towardswomen and especially towards
queer women, and trans women inparticular.
as soon as I got invited by afriend, Endon7, who's one of my
favorite people in the PokemonGo community, and one of my best
friends in...
life, period, inviting me togirls at PVP and, you know, a
(25:07):
great environment without thepressure that, having male
dominated spaces can give, andespecially Knowing that, even in
Pokemon Go, which tends to be areally good community
comparatively to other games,knowing that misogyny exists,
knowing that, homophobia andtransphobia exists, and like,
having this safe environment todiscuss this game that we love,
(25:28):
to know that people can be newerto this game and not be judged
for it, or, trying out differentthings and not be shot down for
ideas, has been amazing.
I joined girls at P V P in,2019.
And then in like spring of 2020was asked to be an admin for the
server and, it's been myfavorite.
(25:49):
community to advocate for withinthe Pokemon Go community.
I think it's...
It's so incredibly importantespecially as, someone who is
able to perform at a high level,within the game, like, has a
very intimate knowledge of themechanics of the game and, can
play well, like, I, takerepresentation extremely
seriously.
It's something that I love thatI can share.
(26:10):
I've run lecture style classesin GirlsThatPVP myself, and
DPhie, another amazing friend ofmine, one of my best friends,
again, in life, beyond justPokemon Go, but in life.
her and I have led like castingcoaching within that server and
seeing the joy of women in thiscommunity that can focus on What
(26:31):
they enjoy without feeling likethey're going to be judged
without feeling like oh this manThat gives me trouble at my
locals because he always saysthat i'm an easy win or whatever
the things that like Sometimesother men won't believe actually
happens whether it's in dms orin person events like completely
removed from that it's reallybeautiful to see and it's things
where I will know someone in amore public server and They
(26:56):
don't talk nearly as much andthen I see them flourishing
girls at PVP, it just makes meso incredibly happy.
with the past couple years, likebeing involved with some of the
other games, getting to see theHatterene Series for VGC,
getting to meet some of thepeople within Girl Power TCG,
seeing, Unite has an all women'steam propping up.
I think it's called the femmefatales and like seeing these
(27:18):
different spaces, havingcollaborations, we've done
tournaments with a Hatterene aswell.
it's just been beautiful to seeand it.
really makes all of it extremelyworthwhile to me, like knowing
that I'm representing girls atPVP, knowing that I'm helping
invite women to this communityat events and, getting to see
growth from other members of theserver, like nothing, nothing
(27:40):
makes me happier.
David Hernandez (27:43):
You've been listening to As the Pokeball
Turns.
We're gonna take a quick break.
We'll be right back.
(28:48):
NHoff, one thing that peopleknow about you is your signature
Pokemon is Tapu Fini.
How did that all start?
NHoff (28:53):
that's actually a really fun, story, so big shout out to
SpeediestChief2, in particular.
So I...
And a massive shout out, we'llget into, Trogdor, who's a local
of mine.
if you know the faction MuddyWater, he's the captain of that
faction, he's a huge, influenceand presence in Boston in terms
(29:14):
of PvP.
so Trogdor, during the waterfestival event, messaged me
because I worked over inCambridge, which is near where
he...
hangs out at times and hemessaged me and he said, Okay, I
found in this park near yourwork a rank 7 Araquanid like how
available are you to run over?
And I was like, I can take a ahalf hour for dinner And run
(29:37):
over and it was like a 10 15minute walk.
So it was really nice and uhJust being able to see him and
he's hey, do you want to do atrade?
I was like sure like phoeni hadjust released in raids rather
recently He was like, do youwant to try to re roll Fini?
And I got, the Pokemon that isnow, forever tied to me.
it's a 2 attack, 2 defense, 8HP, Tapu Fini, so it gets a
(30:00):
really nice HP point.
And I got it in the trade, itsaid it was 1463 CP, and I was
like, oh, this could either bereally bad or really good
because legendaries have areally high, step size of CP
power up.
So I was like, if I get a powerup, this is gonna be amazing.
If I don't, it's gonna beterrible.
David Hernandez (30:19):
Oh my
NHoff (30:19):
like 1499.
and the rest is history.
The whole, man I love Feeny,phrase, started saying that all
over, because it's true, I lovethe Pokemon.
So, SpeediestChief, the reason Imention him is, there were,
practice tournaments for theseregional championships that were
happening.
and so I entered one with bothof those Pokemon, both Araquanid
(30:43):
and Tapu Fini as well asNoctowl, Galarian Stunfisk, some
other meta Pokemon.
But I really enjoyed those two,and I've always, really enjoyed
water type Pokemon, so they werereally things that I wanted to
test out.
the fluidity of Tapu Fini, wesee people talk about it all the
time, we see like castersmention it.
The Water Gun, Surf, Moon Blast,moveset is just very enjoyable
(31:07):
to me, especially more so thanAzumarill, which is a little bit
slower paced.
It's a lot bulkier, but it'salso lumbering.
I love fluid Pokemon in PokemonGo PvP, and this isn't just
because it's a water type, it'slike the play style of a one
turn fast move.
The power of Water Gun Surf, andespecially of Moonblast, has
(31:27):
closing power.
Just instantly I was, match madein heaven.
both of those, Trog andSpeedius, really solidified, oh,
I want to learn this Pokemonextremely intimately.
There is a high skill ceiling tothis Pokemon.
But, yeah, it was likeinstantly, I fell in love with
this and because it's a tradeunder 1500 pokemon That not a
(31:49):
ton of people have, this issomething that I can learn, and
I will always have, like, thisknowledge that I can have as, my
advantage.
it's a Pokemon that a ton ofother people might not, even
have to test out, but a lot ofother people won't invest it.
I've really enjoyed Tapu Fini,obviously, it's my quote unquote
signature pick because of that,but it's just something that
(32:11):
every time I've used it, I foundit rewarding in one way or
another.
And even people expecting itfrom me now, is something that
can be rewarding as well,playing into the expectations.
I don't see it changing anytimesoon, so long as they don't nerf
Water Gun, Surf, or Moonblast,you can expect me to be running
Tapu Fini at basically everytournament.
(32:32):
I actually have a hundo now thatI need to max out, and I have
the XLs because I've raided somany Tapu Fini because everyone
wants one for me, which is likea great problem to have, don't
get me wrong.
People coming up to me at eventsand being like, I want you to
trade me a great luchini, I wantthe fini from NHoff, I'm just
like, It is the most touchingthing, I still get weird about
people approaching me at events,feeling not, Famous isn't the
(32:55):
right word because it's, thePokemon Go community, it's not
like we're a huge community, butit is, A level of, oh, someone
wants to approach me to say hi,and they're like, Hello, I'm
TropiusFan55, I watch yourTwitch stream, I comment in chat
every now and then, and I'm justlike, this person knows who I
am, this stranger, and it stillhasn't stopped being surreal.
(33:17):
Someone approached me at Worldsin London and was like, will you
sign my phone case?
And it's like this isn't like metrying to brag, this is me
trying to say like, this is It'sstill surreal and it's part of
what I love about Pokemon Go andthe community is people will
seek each other out just to sayhi, just to get a photo, and the
like, connection with me andTapu Fini that has resulted and
(33:40):
has this like Influence and thisimpact and people will want to
immediately talk to me about it,like what do you think about
Feeny with the move updates?
it's something that I don't takefor granted.
I feel very privileged to havethis kind of standing and, it's
something that I'm really gladthat I dove so heavily into Tapu
Fini for because, being thesubject matter expert for a
(34:02):
Pokémon, for lack of a betterphrase, is really cool and being
able to be that as a woman inthe community, I think is just
huge as well.
David Hernandez (34:10):
What is it about it being surreal?
Because, when I look at whatyou've done so far, you've been
to worlds twice, you've are veryheavy involved with in the
community itself.
Is it just the fact that youdon't feel like you don't
deserve that kind ofrecognition?
Or is it more of?
It's too good to be true kind ofthing.
NHoff (34:29):
you're keying on kind of two sides of it.
There is a lot of, self doubtor, self, criticism of, Oh, why
are, why is someone excited tosee me?
I'm just another person.
I'm just another player.
we're all playing this gametogether.
but it's also, yeah, surreal andlike, I don't expect it to
happen like, too good to betrue, kind of like, Oh, I'm
(34:50):
being recognized for my play inthis TapTap phone app, as, we
call it.
Some of it comes back to, like,so much of my learning of the
game is stuff that I would justhyperfixate on anyway, and I'm
just like, Oh, when I, playedthousands of hours of RuneScape,
I was just another player, butnow when I'm playing, so much of
Go and learning so much aboutthe game, because it's a
(35:11):
competitive game, it's somethingthat, garners respect, and
garners fame, and, like, it'salso, I didn't approach content
creation trying to be, like, abig name, nor do I think I am,
like, comparatively to others inthe game, but, it still is
something where I'm, like, arecognized trainer, or Thanks
What they put up at regionals, Ithink it's called Notable
Trainers, Players to Watch, Ithink is another one they'll put
(35:33):
on the streams.
And it's oh, I'm on there.
Oh, at Peoria, like...
I'm playing 15 games in a row onstream and like getting put on
youtube and gaining a ton offollowers and like it happens
obviously and that's exposureand all that but like I don't
always Connect that likementally and then like people
will approach me and be like,oh, I loved watching you play
(35:56):
against hot pocket in Peoria andI'm just like oh, yeah, like
people watch these like I itfeels so dumb to say out loud
But like it is that kind of liketoo good to be true.
I try to stay extremely, humbleis like the classic word, but
like, respectful of, everyonethat I face, and, even in, Go
Battle League and all.
There's a certain level you getto when everyone's good, so...
(36:18):
Why am I special?
Why is someone approaching meand asking me for a photo?
And, I know that's like amindset that doesn't really make
sense because there can be a lotof really good players, but it's
just like, where my brain goesto, I'm like, Okay, I'm just
another, I'm just another persontapping my phone.
David Hernandez (36:36):
No, that makes sense.
Because like you said earlier,you didn't go into this for fame
or to be well known.
You went into this because youwere just passionate about PVP
and you just wanted to getinvolved.
You started doing contentcreation and you just got
involved with girls at PvP andgo stadium and now you're almost
a household name basically atthis point.
It becomes to the point to wherelike, oh, I was just doing it
(36:56):
just for I enjoyed it I didn'treally do this in hopes of
having my name up there with allthe others
NHoff (37:02):
Yeah, The first time that they broadcast like world
qualified for trainers on thestream.
And I saw mine up there withpocket with Stark, with Elam.
it was just surreal to be like,Oh, and it's not like I hadn't
seen the success in KBP up tothat point.
I've done things like eight aerodraft league.
I had done go stadiums tiersystem up to the God rank.
(37:23):
That's where my Twitter usernameof goddessNHoff comes from like
there's.
Things that I had done and seensuccess in there, but then like
suddenly it was so much morereal Like you're saying like I
have taken it through the lensof I want to be representation
For girls at PvP.
I want to be good representationfor girls at PvP like I present
myself very professionally.
(37:44):
I try to do very good work forthings like the Pokemon website
articles that I've done forWorld in London, the preview and
the review that I did and otherarticles since, and like, how I
present myself in a stream,trying to, teach new players,
and, trying to continue to dowell at tournaments and be that
representation, that, to me, isso much more rewarding than, Oh,
(38:09):
I had five additional viewers inmy Twitch stream.
If I can have two women joinGirls at PVP and have their,
growth in this game fostered,and have that sense of community
for them, that means so muchmore at the end of every day,
and it's really something that,I didn't even, start my journey
with this in mind, but it's justwhat I've found so incredibly
(38:29):
fulfilling, and especially,again, queer women and trans
women, like, I've formedextremely close bonds with trans
members of the Go community, ofthe greater Pokemon community as
well, and having these sharedexperiences and being able to,
relate to kindred spirits, it'sjust, extremely fulfilling and,
through gaming as an avenue thatI never expected it to, having
(38:51):
grown up with extremely toxicgaming environments, it's really
surreal, and it's something thatI feel blessed for every time I
compete, every time I put on my,Stadium Elite jersey and go to
compete at a tournament, a lotof these emotions just
continuously hit me, and that's,why I keep doing it, that's why
I go to so many, and, why I'malways so happy to, continue to
(39:11):
be involved in the GO communityas extensively as I can, to the
point where, I get told a lotto, do less, be, like, less
agreeable to do things, to, helpout with things, but it's just
the most rewarding thing.
David Hernandez (39:25):
You spoke about how you had those articles
written, and they were publishedby Pokemon themselves.
How did that feel?
Like, if I was in your shoes,I'd imagine myself being
ecstatic, jumping up in myplace.
Like, that's a big deal in
NHoff (39:38):
So, one of the, one of the weirdest...
experiences, is going on toTwitter and seeing a DM from
someone who says they're theeditor for Pokemon.com.
and they're messaging andthey're saying, Hey, we, we know
you're a top player.
we've seen you on the, Go BattleLeague leaderboards, and we've
seen some of your written work.
(39:59):
Would you be interested inwriting an article for Pokemon.
com?
My immediate reaction was, Verymuch freaking out, and very
much, am I being scammed?
Like, am I,
David Hernandez (40:09):
Yeah,
NHoff (40:10):
is this real?
Like, I, I go to the, the guy's,profile, and it says, content
manager for, Pokemon.com, orChief Editor, I forget what his
official title is, but, Luckily,I was, friends with, Gabi Snyder
at the time, and still am, butknew her from having done the,
Battle for Rose stream, the,charity stream we did directly
(40:30):
after NAIC last year, in thewake of the Roe v.
Wade, Supreme Court decision,and so I was like, hey Gabi! Is
this what a Pokemon companyemail looks like?
what this guy just gave me tocontact him.
Is this legit?
And he was like, yes, it'slegit.
Also, congratulations.
And I was just like, freakingout, jumping up and down.
also oh, I can't tell anyoneabout this, this is such a weird
(40:53):
experience.
huge honor.
Still my favorite piece ofwritten work that I've done to
this day was my preview for the2022 World Championships because
it was the first WorldChampionships for Pokemon Go.
it was my first, article for thePokemon.
com website, and for Pokemon.
com, it was the first writtenpiece by a Pokemon Go community
(41:18):
member.
There were articles written by,Pokemon.
com staff.
There were articles written byGabi, who is a Pokemon GO
community member, but she's aVGC player.
She is a VGC caster.
She has joined our community,but it felt very real to have
them reach out to someone whowas not from any other
(41:38):
established community, again,not at all to disparage Gabi,
but like, I had entirely startedmy Pokemon career from a formal
perspective in the Go community.
And that was something that wasa huge honor, and still to this
day is not lost on me.
So, it was pretty insane.
Like, it was, incredible, andgetting to see it published, I
(42:00):
saved the, screenshot of thewebsite.
now that I've moved into alarger place, I want to get it
framed like it is.
It's still one of the wildestmoments to me, and, I messaged
at the time when it published,the, like, inner child, jumps
for joy of, like, that'sPokemon, that's the Pokemon
website and my image and my nameare on it, there's a little
(42:22):
blurb about me like at thebottom of the article.
I've been featured on thestream.
Gabby interviewed me inArlington at the Arlington
Regional like there's been somany moments that I feel so
blessed for.
obviously a culmination ofefforts, but still, just also
recognizing that, so manyexternal factors have led to
(42:42):
this, and I am blessed for everysingle one of them.
I am so thankful that I've beengiven these opportunities and
that I've been able to continue,working with the website that
I've been continued to befeatured as a player, like, I
get to have a pretty goodcommunication with Daniel, who's
the producer for the streams.
We talked at Worlds about, like,hey, if you have a good run,
(43:04):
like, we have stuff prepped foryou for stream, and like that is
so incredibly, heartwarming of,like, this is a community of
People who want to highlightothers and do care about
misrepresentation.
there's no surprise in the factthat the other, like, member of
the Go community who's beeninvolved heavily in writing
(43:24):
articles Is Soph Toth.
the person who reached out to meabout writing for the website
cares about having women writersand like that to me just
continues to cement, like,talking to Daniel about, Hey,
what are some, who are somewomen that you know are going to
this regional?
Who do you think like we couldhighlight on the stream?
it's never lost on me.
It is so incredibly, incrediblyexciting to see so much
(43:48):
investment in this from acommunity as a whole.
And yeah, there are bad actors.
I've certainly had my experiencewith bad actors, but
comparatively just so incrediblygreat.
David Hernandez (44:00):
The last thing that we're going to touch on is
just your world run.
Most specifically, you actuallygot a chance to participate in
Japan.
what was it like for you to goto Japan, the birth of Pokemon,
and be able to participate inworlds?
NHoff (44:11):
Japan was my first Worlds as a competitor.
It was also, as you're saying,the birthplace of Pokemon.
It was also the inspiration forthe first four Pokemon regions.
I did a Pokemon tourism trip toJapan.
that was entirely guided bymyself and Stella Tesla, a very
close friend of mine from theNetherlands.
(44:32):
who traveled with me and we wentto kyushu the bottom like area
of japan like bottom islandwhere the hoenn region was based
on we spent time going todifferent cities that were
inspirations for cities inHoenn.
And then, obviously GoFestOsaka, Osaka was in the Kansai
(44:53):
region, which was theinspiration for Johto.
And we got to go to differentcities, DPhiE250 as well.
arrived in Japan around thistime.
We got to go to different citiesthat inspired areas of the Jōtō
region.
And then, obviously, Yokohamawas the inspiration for
Vermilion City in the Kantoregion.
We got to explore that region.
So, like, talking again about,the inner child, my childhood
(45:16):
eyes, being able to be like, Ohmy goodness, that is, the area
that Fallarbor Town was inspiredby, the Hot Springs, I get to
visit this video game that hasbeen so integral to my life,
especially now, and then I getto compete at my first ever
Worlds.
There's no words to describe thefull, encapsulated experience,
(45:37):
but it is, by far, like, thecoolest, like, three weeks
timeframe of my entire life atthis point.
It was...
It's so incredibly surreal, Iknow I'm beating that word to
death, but throughout it, justit's your childhood, fantasies
come to life.
you are living through thisworld, you are competing at the
highest level, as the title ofPokémon Master, it's the
(46:00):
closest, experience to thatexists, and it's why I love this
franchise so much.
David Hernandez (46:06):
I remember you posted photos on Twitter, and I
was geeking out because I don'tknow much about the
inspirations, obviously I knowthe region, but I don't know the
inspirations on how closely theywere to the town.
I think the one I commented onwas the Mount Chimney, I asked
you the question about, oh, isthere a rail car?
And that was actually myquestion.
Like, how similar was it goingto these towns compared to what
(46:28):
we see in the games?
Like, what are some of thesimilarities that stick out to
you?
NHoff (46:31):
obviously things get exaggerated because it's a video
game and they're so muchsmaller, but the amount of
things that you see That aresimilar, it's really jarring,
like, Takeda was one of thetowns that inspired, Lavaridge.
And being like, oh, like, thisis, near Mount Aso, which is the
(46:51):
largest volcano in Japan andlike, you can go to an onsen,
which are the hot, baths.
And oh, that's exactly like inthe game, like you can get your
Wynaut egg.
from the old couple at the hotspring bath in Lavaridge.
we went to Mount Aso, and yeah,there wasn't a cable car, it was
a, it was a bus up to the top ofthe mountain, but you can see
entirely how it inspired, thearea.
(47:13):
We went to, Kumamoto, which isthe inspiration for Mauville,
and like, No, there's not a hugepower plant.
It's not a huge, like electricaltown, but you see the Komoto
castle and it's like, oh, I cansee how this inspired the gym of
that city.
especially in Johto, becauseJohto, or rather Kansai in the
real world is so heavilydripping with Japanese culture.
(47:36):
we went to, Nara and Kyoto,which are the inspirations for
violet City and Ecruteak City,And you get to see the temples
that inspired the, Burns Towerand the Bellsprout Tower and the
Golden Tower in real life.
And you're like, I can seeexactly where this game came
from.
(47:56):
I can see the golden, birdthat's at the top of this temple
that's...
The inspiration for Ho-oh as aPokemon and it's really cool.
You get to see wild deer in Naraand you're like, I can see why
they wanted stantler as aPokemon in the Johto region.
I think that in particular wasjust so cool to me.
Osaka was based on, GoldenrodAnd they have this huge radio
(48:21):
tower in the middle of the citythat the Goldenrod radio tower
obviously was based on.
They have an entire undergroundarea, which is where we actually
played most of Osaka GoFest, butit's where the Goldenrod
Underground is based on.
So, obviously it varies city tocity, how much of its
inspiration you see, but it was,like, to a level that I was not
(48:42):
expecting.
I was expecting little,landmarks here and there, but
they were able to capture somuch of this area in a very
simple video game, it wasincredible.
David Hernandez (48:53):
Did it feel like it brought that video game
to life to where like, you know,obviously you played Gen 2 and
Gen 3.
did it feel like when youentered these cities, like the
games gave it a new dimension?
NHoff (49:03):
You're exactly spot on.
I was like, I feel like I'm inEcruteak City.
I feel like I'm in Johto rightnow.
And I am, because it's theinspiration for it, but it's
like...
I get to see these landmarks,and I get to see these things,
and you're entirely right, Ifeel a deeper connection for
this game and this franchise asa result.
(49:24):
I love Hoenn as a region, havingexperienced it, like, Takeda,
which was one of theinspirations for Lavaridge, it's
probably my favorite city I'vevisited in all of my travels
ever.
It was so incredibly cool, bothbecause I loved this, video
game, but also because it wasjust such a great area.
Beautiful nature, really quaint,smaller town.
(49:46):
Which again, fits with the vibein the video game, there's three
houses there.
I felt like this like fangirlfor the Pokemon franchise the
entire time and that getsexaggerated at Pokemon centers
and so on.
As you said, brought an entireextra element to this franchise.
I want to continue doing it.
I want to go back and visitHokkaido, which is the
inspiration for Sinnoh.
(50:08):
New York I've done, obviously,with Unova, but visit, the parts
of France that were inspirationsfor Kalos and Worlds 2024, I
guess I'll be able to visitAlola, because it'll be in
Hawaii, but it's something thatI am so glad that I did, and
would recommend to anyone who'sa huge fan of the franchise to
do something like this, becauseit was...
(50:28):
It was incredible.
David Hernandez (50:30):
NHoff, we're nearing the end of the show.
You've been a wonderful guest.
I do have one last questionbefore we close this taco stand.
NHoff (50:36):
Oh, of course.
David Hernandez (50:38):
You've really been passionate about
representation within thePokémon GO community, both for
women as well as for thetransgender community.
When you finally put the game ofPokemon Go down, and you're
done, what do you hope peopleremember you for?
NHoff (50:53):
Damn.
oh, is cursing okay?
David Hernandez (50:55):
Yeah, it's fine.
NHoff (50:56):
wow, that's a heavy one.
I would like to think that I amremembered for this game as
someone who gave their all tomaking it a better game,
whenever I wind up steppingaway, or if, whatever my legacy
winds up happening, is that Imade the game and the community
(51:16):
better at the end of it thanwhen it started.
especially again for women,queer individuals and trans
individuals in particular.
the idea that I'd have anypositive impact in those
directions, it means the worldto me.
I had the pleasure and theprivilege of, getting to meet
some for lack of a better term,idols of mine, in the trans
(51:38):
community, in gaming, throughthis game, and, hearing
compliments about what I doalready for representation, and,
advocacy, it is, again, the mostfulfilling thing possible.
If people can say, I feltcomfortable starting to stream
because of NHoff, because ofAna, that is the most beautiful
(52:00):
thing I can hear.
If someone says, I feltcomfortable competing at an
event and putting myself outthere in public because of
NHoff, These are things thatI've heard and just, floor me
every time more than anyoneapproaching me.
It's what it's all about and mylegacy, I don't care what it
says about me as a player.
this is another thing, I don'twant to be the best female
player in the world.
(52:21):
I know there's a lot of peoplewho do, and I know there's...
a lot of times, men in thecommunity will be like, Oh,
she's surely the best femaleplayer about myself, about
Paula, about Andris, aboutwhoever.
That's not important to me.
getting the most, views onTwitch, or, getting, some of
these opportunities in, creationand writing and being featured
(52:43):
in, videos or graphics orwhatever.
Individually, it's amazing, butit doesn't matter at all
comparatively to knowing thatI'm helping push that needle.
And if I'm remembered as, thefirst, trans woman competitor at
Worlds, the first, breakinginto, heavily featured in
(53:04):
competition and on streams andall of this and paving the way
for other queer folk to feelcomfortable to compete, other
women to feel comfortable tocompete.
That is what it's all about, itis what matters at the end of
the day for me.
David Hernandez (53:17):
That's a show.
Thank you for coming on to theshow.
Before you do go, if people wantto connect with you, if they
wanted to watch your streams,where could they go?
By all means, please plug away.
NHoff (53:27):
I'm most active on Twitter or X now, but Twitter
David Hernandez (53:33):
Whatever they decide call themselves.
NHoff (53:35):
Yeah, it's twitter.
com slash, at goddessNHoff or onTwitch, it's nahoff.
I stream most weekdays, 9 a.
m.
Eastern Time.
and then I'm active here orthere.
If you're in the Go StadiumDiscord, you'll...
be able to see me on thesidebar.
I'm always very well, open totalking to people about the
game.
especially again a woman baddleris listening to this, or just a
(53:59):
woman player is interested injoining girls at PvP, just send
me a message, I would be sohappy to connect you to the
community.
you'll definitely see me at abunch of regional tournaments
this year as well So look outfor me at those
David Hernandez (54:12):
Cool beans, and I'll make sure to include links
to everything she said in thedescription of today's episode.
Thank you for listening to Asthe Pokeball Turns.
If you want to support the show,consider becoming a patron by
either clicking the link in thedescription or going to
patreon.com/asthepokeballturns.
Now here's a sneak peek for thenext episode of As the Pokeball
Turns.
My name is David Hernandez, and you're
(00:01):
listening to As the PokeballTurns.
(00:44):
Welcome to As the PokeballTurns, where the stories are
real and people still play thisgame.
When I was a senior in highschool, I remember I had a shirt
that was given to me for studentcouncil that read on the back,
why follow and read this shirtwhen you can lead and see so
much more.
It imprinted the idea of bothleadership and forging one's own
path, a trait that is usuallyadmired in our western world.
(01:06):
As many of us follow our ownpaths, whether we are discussing
Pokemon or professionally, wegive courage for others to do
the same, especially those whocan relate to our own stories,
struggles, or perhaps our ownethnicity, gender, or race.
Having that connection with arole model is important because
it gives people hope that theycan be more than what they
thought possible.
(01:27):
My guest today is motivated bybeing an example for both women
and trans members within thePokemon community.
In spite of all her battlingaccomplishments, she places more
value on improving theexperiences for both women and
trans members within thecommunity, particularly when it
comes to PVP.
From Boston, Massachusetts,here's her origin story into the
(01:48):
world of Pokemon Go.
This is...
NHoff.
today I'm joined by NHoff.
She has qualified for 2023 WorldChampionship and is heavily
involved with both GO Stadiumand GirlsThatPVP.
NHoff, I'm happy to finally haveyou on the show.
Welcome.
NHoff (02:04):
Thank you so much, David.
Yeah, it's an honor to be on.
I'm really excited to talk aboutall kinds of things Pokemon Go
PvP and it should be a greattime.
David Hernandez (02:14):
Definitely.
before we dive into PvP, like,where did your journey with
Pokemon Go start?
Like, when did you first startplaying?
NHoff (02:19):
so I'm a day one, at least in the states, player, so
I believe that's July 7th.
July 6th was if you did, theAustralian APK, I didn't quite
do that, but first day it wasavailable here, I was out
playing, catching those Pidgeysand not much else.
I remember, that first week,more game crashes than able to
(02:40):
actually play the game.
going around and catching, youknow, a bunch of the same,
getting so excited catching yourfirst lapras, all those really
good.
You know, 2016 vibes.
Evolving Vaporeon to put intothe gym and then I played it for
about a year and a half.
and similar story to a lot ofplayers, took some time away
from the game.
(03:00):
the features weren't reallycoming out at a rapid pace like
we have them now.
between like end of 2017 andlike mid 2019, I came back right
before Mudkip Community Day andhave played since.
told myself if I get back intoPokemon Go, I'm gonna go deep
into it.
(03:20):
And PVP was really interestingto me, so I was a bit of time
after, PVP was introduced, butstarted with Silph Season 2 with
the Sinister Cup was my firsttournament.
I actually tied for first at myfirst tournament I ever played
in PVP, and obviously, have notlooked back since.
it's my Favorite aspect of thegame, and, really love what it
(03:43):
does in terms of buildingcommunity, and the game itself
is really fulfilling to me hasreally been enjoyable, and the
game becoming a larger part ofmy life is actually something
I've, really enjoyed.
David Hernandez (03:54):
So, for those initial days, you talked about,
trying to get a Vaporeon to putin the gym.
You talked about trying to get aLapras.
Were you just, out trying tohunt these Pokemon?
Like, Lapras was pretty hard tohatch back in those days.
NHoff (04:04):
Yeah, so, Lapras, I remember hatching my first one.
in terms of catches, obviouslythe storyline is the dragonite.
And I remember, finding acouple, or like seeing people at
the local park all running toone location which, the only
time you really see it now islike at a Go Fest when there's a
hundo, I saw it.
(04:24):
in New York, there was a HundoDratini, and you see everyone
rush over, but that was just forany given Dragonite spawn back
in the day.
so I remember those, and thencatching Eevees, and going for
the 1 in 3 roll of Vaporeon.
But there wasn't a ton else tohunt, because so many things
were either, locked to eggs...
(04:45):
raids weren't in the game yet,it was just gyms to defend, or
regionals.
And, that was before we had alot of these events based on the
game that get you to go all overthe world.
So I know we're going to get toJapan later, but like getting a
Farfetch'd just wasn't feasible.
I think, a large reason why alot of players, took a time away
from the game and now it's somuch, in my opinion, so much
(05:07):
better in terms of Interestingthings to hunt.
I can go for a walk, especiallywith adventure incense as well,
which is one of my favoriteadditions to the game.
I can potentially get somethinglike a Vullaby or a Rockruff
from my adventure incense, andthat's exciting, like that
brings back some of that wonderin a way that we didn't even
really have in 2016 because itwas like Dragonite, maybe like a
(05:29):
Hitmonchan was really exciting.
I don't remember if those evenspawned or if they were from
eggs, but like things that arestill a little bit rarer.
but that was about it, and thentrying to evolve your strongest
Eevees into Vaporeon and hopingthey got the right moves, too.
David Hernandez (05:44):
Oh, yes, that's before TMs.
I remember, like you said, like,all we had back in the day was
really just a grind.
I think the rare catches back inthose days was definitely
Snorlax, Chansey, if you got theevolution starters, like,
Venusaur, Charizard, Blastoise,that would get people running
and Dratini, of course.
I get what you're saying towhere like nowadays those spawns
are more, there's more differenttype of spawns and you get to
(06:05):
more like rare spawns, if you'relucky.
NHoff (06:08):
and the advent of things like nests, which I don't think
were in the game at thebeginning of the game, or if
they were, they were just verylimited in what was available in
nests.
the idea of, oh, my local nestis a Pokemon that I want to
grind XL for?
I'm gonna stop by it for a fewdays in the next week.
I remember, later on, like acouple years back, my local park
(06:29):
became an Onix nest and I reallywanted a good shiny Onix for, a
shiny Steelix for PvP.
And that was just reallyexciting, that was something to
grind.
So just like adding all of thoseaspects to make Things a little
bit more interesting has justbeen really nice.
David Hernandez (06:46):
Before Pokemon GO, what was your experience
with Pokemon?
NHoff (06:49):
I started with generation 2 Back in the day with silver
and crystal were the two Gamesthat I had so my first starter
was Cyndaquil and then I playeda good deal of that and then
Pokemon Sapphire released.
to this day, Hoenn is myfavorite region, Sapphire and
(07:11):
Emerald as well.
And then the remakes as well,Omega Ruby, Alpha Sapphire, are
my favorite mainline Pokemongames.
I just was...
So and for all the upgrade invisuals and in like depth to the
game in Generation three havingdouble battles, having weather
in game, and just Pokemon.
Hoenn is one of my favoritePokedexes in terms of what's
(07:34):
available Even beyond the, Hoenndecks, things like, Skarmory,
like Slugma from Johto, that arejust not really explored in that
region, and then brought intoHoenn, I think it's just
incredible and I dumped so manyhours into Sapphire, restarting
my save, playing it over andover again.
and then I played Pearl, andthen I, again, like many Pokémon
(07:57):
players, dipped out for a while.
Pokemon Go was actually my reentry to the series.
to this day, I have not playedGenerations 5, 6, or 7, in their
main versions, or, none of themhave remakes yet, but, I will,
whenever...
We get a remake of Unova, Kalos,and Alola, and I plan to play
(08:18):
them at some point regardless.
But that was like my gap.
I played heavily Gens 2 and 3,and side games as well.
I played, XD is one of myfavorite spinoffs still.
And then Pokemon Go released, Ijumped heavily back into the
franchise, and I've reallyenjoyed it since.
I've played.
I had Sword, and now I haveScarlet, and really enjoyed,
(08:40):
Pokemon Legends Arceus, pokemonOmega Ruby, Alpha Sapphire, as I
said, that was actually my firstgame back.
And then, Oh, Let's Go Pikachuand Eevee, and Pokemon Brilliant
Diamond and Shining Pearl.
So, basically, oh, and NewPokemon Snap, and Unite as well.
So, like, since getting, heavilyinto Go, I've just dove back
into the franchise, everyrelease has been interesting to
(09:02):
me in some way and I found itreally enjoyable.
David Hernandez (09:05):
you know, I'm always a fan when I find
somebody comes on the show andthey say gen 3 was her favorite
cuz that was my Favorite toobecause gen 3 like you said the
Pokedex was very differential,the terrain was different, you
had the volcano you therainforest.
you got a piece of everydifferent type of terrain
possible.
Now I know the biggest criticismis all the water and everything,
but me, I like that, like theextra water.
(09:25):
Cause it adds a lot of mysterythat you really, obviously,
there's a limit to how much youget to explore in the game, but
it gives you the idea of thatthere's more compared to what
you experienced.
NHoff (09:34):
I am a big, Hoenn being water based defender.
I think that there's a lot ofinteresting elements to that,
especially when you introducedive as a mechanic.
And I think that all the townsbased around the water are
really great.
You have...
Mossdeep with the, Twin Gym.
You have the ice area, ShoalCave, north of that.
(09:56):
You have Sootopolis, which isstill, one of the coolest cities
in Pokemon, in my eyes.
and then Pacifidlog as well, anentire aquatic city.
So I understand if you're, like,big on the whole, oh, I don't
want to face fifteen Tentacruelone after the other after the
other.
and oh, I have to use repels,but like, it's no different than
going through a cave for a routewhere you have Zubats over and
(10:20):
over.
grass routes can be nice becauseyou can avoid some encounters,
but like...
I'm all for it, especially thatlate in the game.
you should have some level of,difficulty there, and I don't
really think it's that seriousunless people just get, annoyed
by it, which I can understand,but I really like the water half
of Hoenn.
Obviously love the land half ofHoenn as well, Lavaridge is, my
(10:41):
favorite, Pokemon town at all,Flannery was my favorite Pokemon
character until Gen 9, And stillis one of my, favorites of the
entire franchise.
So, lots that I really loveabout this region.
David Hernandez (10:54):
My last thing on the ocean part of Hoenn, even
Pacific log, it's not fullydeveloped, it's not fully
explored, like.
It's a very small forgettabletown, I'll be honest,
NHoff (11:05):
Yeah.
David Hernandez (11:05):
you think about Mirage Island, that popping up
randomly, as long as yourbattery didn't die in Gen 3, we
don't know why it appeared.
It's right next to Sky Pillarwhere Rayquaza's at, and then
when you read the text from allthe people who live in the town,
They talk about how, I thinkthey were originally, explorers
looking for some kind ofancient, Pokemon or something
like that, which eventually, ifyou go further west, you find
(11:27):
out it's the Regis.
there's just so much depth tojust a small island.
And plus, I like the idea towhere it's I think it's,
abandoned, how can I word it?
You know what I'm talking about,to where you're walking on,
little, wood, I forget how thehouses I can't even remember the
foundation the houses were builton.
NHoff (11:41):
Yeah, but it's like rafts and floatsome.
David Hernandez (11:43):
There we go.
Yes, those, exactly.
And then the town, it's been acouple generations since the
original ancestors.
And they kind of remember, butit's become more that folklore
kind of style thing.
NHoff (11:54):
you're touching on also like just the lore of the Hoenn
region.
I love the...
I love Jirachi.
It's my favorite mythicalPokemon.
I really like a lot of, like,space based Pokemon.
So, Rayquaza, Deoxys, all ofthis, is really interesting.
Latias is probably my secondfavorite Legendary behind Tapu
Fini, of course.
There's, just a lot that Ireally like, from the mythos of
(12:17):
Hoenn as well.
David Hernandez (12:18):
Last question about Hoenn, I promise.
If you're gonna do a playthroughfor Hoenn, what six Pokemon
would you choose?
NHoff (12:24):
Ooh so that one's tough because I like a lot of Pokemon
that are like Later on, andalso, I'm bad in variety because
I love so many different groundtypes.
I would probably pick, Swampertas my starter.
I love all three Hoenn starters,I think it's one of the best
fleshed out regions in terms of,first partner Pokemon.
(12:45):
I love, Swampert.
I think Aggron is one of thecoolest, like, early route
Pokemon that you can get.
definitely picking up Torkoal.
Torkoal is my favorite fire typeto this day, used it on all of
my VGC teams as well.
Flygon's just one of myfavorites from Hoenn as well.
I'm gonna pick up Skarmory,probably my only, non Hoenn
(13:06):
Pokémon, and I'm doubling up onSteel, and I already doubled up
on Ground, but I think it'spretty fun.
And then, I would pick up aCastform.
I've never actually done aplaythrough with a Castform, but
I've really grown to loveCastform through Pokemon Go, and
I just think it's a really fun,Pokemon.
I like its idea a lot.
I love its, incorporation intoHoenn.
(13:27):
It's never been, like, a hugefavorite of mine, but I've
picked up rainy Castform inlike, draft tournaments.
it can just be an interestingpick in a team of six.
I would probably opt for it as,Snowy Castform, like, I would
try to do, a Hail, setup.
Just because of how that workswith the team's weaknesses and
because, I've used a lot ofRainy and Sunny Castform in Go.
(13:48):
I like Snowy Castform, it'sjust, unfortunately is the only
one without any coverage in Goand it would be cool.
It would force me to playsomething different.
Cause I've done a lot of like,Oh, I'm just gonna run, You
know, my starter, Aggron, whichlike, Aggron's great.
and some other big Pokemon on myteam.
so Castform's a little bit morechallenging to use.
David Hernandez (14:09):
So you said how you left the Pokemon series for
a bit after gen 4, which pearlWhy did you stop playing?
NHoff (14:17):
Just like, moving out of childhood, so to speak, starting
to get the stigma between peersof Oh, Pokemon's not that cool
anymore, and also like justdifferent priorities in life.
it wasn't even necessarily tonsindividually that changed.
I think it was also like movingfrom the DS, I tapered off,
gaming in general and then Ipicked it up a lot more than
(14:40):
later on in life.
David Hernandez (14:41):
that's fair I think we all struggle with
trying to find that especiallyaround that age when we're
growing up We feel like weshould just put it to the side,
but reality we probably shouldhave just I don't know I get I
think we all go through thatstage to where we feel like
we've probably grown out of itWe should stop doing it,
especially, you know with ourgeneration, you know the ones
before It was childish to stilldo stuff like that.
So we're first ones.
(15:02):
I say we, but people who grew upin the nineties, I would say
were the first ones to hold ontothose kind of childhood,
Pokemon, Digimon, Yu Gi Oh isdifferent ones.
Of course it's different brands,but we still play Pokemon to
this day and it's because wegrew up with it.
NHoff (15:15):
Definitely! There's just a hold to it.
And it's, it's actuallysomething that I've been talking
with people a lot aboutrecently.
It's the commitment to the brandin whatever shape it takes
like...
It's so powerful and it's justso enjoyable.
There's not really anything fromPokemon as a brand that I've
disliked.
things that I like more thanothers, of course.
(15:37):
I have played, Pokemon Go,obviously, extensively.
I've played a lot of the mainseries games as well, but I
haven't, super watched theanime.
But, It's not that I dislike it.
I, everything I've seen of it,I've liked.
It's just a matter of time andall.
David Hernandez (15:50):
let's fast forward back to 2016.
So Pokemon go comes out in 2016.
You play for a year and a half.
You put the game down cause it'sjust not as interesting.
You come back after Mudkipcommunity day.
what brought you back to Pokemongo Was it the PVP aspect or was
it something else?
NHoff (16:05):
so what brought me back to the game was actually moving
to Philadelphia.
I played...
the game in more of a urbansetting when I started the game
up in northern Pennsylvania atthe city that I went to college.
I moved back into a moresuburban part of Pennsylvania
and just dropped off and then mysignificant other at the time
and myself moved into the heartof Philadelphia, and I was like,
(16:27):
well, I want to be a bit moreactive, and I really enjoyed
Pokemon Go when I used to playit.
Let's see if I can give it a redownload.
Didn't look back, obviously,until current day.
I'm still playing the game.
So, that was the big driver, waslike, I know this game is more
enjoyable in a city.
I know I put it down because Iwas in a less urban setting and
(16:47):
with PvP added and having thecommunity element, it just was
great.
And I, really enjoyed it since.
And that was even before like GoBattle League was a thing.
it's only improved since.
David Hernandez (16:59):
So, when you came back, did you like, find
people right away?
Like, would you go to downtownor the parks to try to find
people to play?
Or would you just be a soloplayer?
NHoff (17:07):
I would play, so my significant other at the time
would play with me now and then,but she was never a hardcore
player.
she would just, play communityday with me, and now and then
you unlock, so I would usuallyplay solo, and still to this day
like A good chunk of my play issolo.
I'll usually go into the BostonCommons for an event, for a
(17:28):
community day, or a spotlighthour, and if I see people there,
you know, I see people there.
at that time, I was involved indiscords and such and that's how
I got incorporated with thecommunity for like, my first
tournament, Sinister Cup, and soon.
But, yeah, I was mainly a soloplayer.
I would see people attournaments and then not until
the next tournament, really.
which was interesting, it wasalso very interesting, the
(17:49):
people that you get to meet,because, I was locals with House
Stark at the time, and, like,the mythos that gets built up
about these players, and, nowI'm on a team with Stark, and,
like, talk to him all the time,and it's just, it was an
interesting dynamic of early PvPkind of structure, of, not
everyone's communicating witheveryone else all the time, or
seeing them at events, and Itwas charming, looking back, it
(18:11):
was really, neat to have thatkind of hold.
David Hernandez (18:15):
You alluded to where you started playing PVP
with Sinister Cup.
Was Silph Road where you learnedhow to get better at PVP?
NHoff (18:22):
Well, for Silph, definitely, but I have to give a
shout out, as always, to,Matthew, the developer of
PvPoke.
I am always a very heavyanalyst.
I love diving into the data, andPokémon Go PvP is a game that
has so much data behind it,like, it's something that we,
especially high level players,take for granted, we're just
(18:42):
like, this is how this works,and, because you have so much
knowledge already, you take itfor granted.
But, the Sinister Cup, timeline,PvPoke did not have the Team
Builder tool yet, and it did nothave, the matrix function to
what we see, today, where youcan just, like, easily sim
against the meta.
I did so much of my training forthat, using the PVPoke training
(19:05):
tool, because I didn't knowanyone to scrim.
tied for first in that firsttournament, I think it
officially shows up as gold onmy Silph card.
Never looked back.
Was so into it.
Said, when's the next tournamentthat I can drive to?
Like, one of the locals fromthat tournament, IVpips, who's
the developer for PokeNav aswell, so shout out to him.
immediately was like, looking toscrim with me, like, became
(19:26):
really close friends, we'reteammates now as well and really
great camaraderie, and peoplewho were also just super
interested in data, like, someof these early conversations,
Around the game, like, it's hardto put yourself in the mindset
before GBL, before PvP info wasas widespread as it is now.
I remember talking to HouseStarkat an event and it was like
(19:49):
getting to the point wherereturn had just been changed
into a heavy damage move, itwasn't a bait anymore And
sableye had been like releasedinto the rocket pool and like we
knew that sableye was good.
him and I were talking aboutlike hey, do you think return
would be a good move on sableyeto keep?
Because it gives you that foulplay return coverage.
people are doing all thesetrades for Lucky Sableye because
(20:11):
it was useful in the game, butwhat if we went specifically for
purified ones?
And now, like, common knowledgethat you want to run a purified
Sableye, also completelydifferent because it's not one
that you want lucky anymore, butlike, the kind of, tribal
information share.
While it's really bad for,making the game accessible, it
was really charming at the time,and looking back at that time.
David Hernandez (20:32):
that makes sense because back in those
days, it was always like thoserumors.
I remember back when Pokemonfirst came out, you don't know
the rumors like Same thing withPVP to where news was passed by
is Oh, I heard this from othersources.
And this is before keep in mindfor people listening.
I believe this is even beforePVP content creators really
became a thing, right?
Because at the time, it was justmostly Silph Arena and It wasn't
as big as GBL became.
NHoff (20:54):
No, you're, you're entirely correct.
one of the people I'm goodfriends with to this day, but is
the only, one of, like, maybethree or four creators that made
PvP content at that point intime and still does today is
Alfindeol.
the biggest inspiration to megetting into streaming and
content creation, one of myclosest friends, I'm still A
very dedicated mod in his streamand in his Discord, but
(21:18):
Alfindeol made Silph streams, hewould do scrims with people on
stream.
And it was right when I, like,got heavily back into PvP, I
was, like, looking for, PokemonGo on Twitch.
And it was compare it to now, wewould have maybe six people
streaming Pokemon Go, averageof, fourteen viewers.
we see people all the time nowbe like, Oh, the category is
(21:38):
dead.
We're at an average of 300people watching the category at
it's minimum.
And there's only 20 streamerslive right now.
not to disparage those takes oranything like that, Like, you
can definitely chart Twitch,usage is and all that.
But like, just looking back atthat era, like, it was so
different, and the treatment ofcontent was so different.
(21:58):
again, like, stuff that was kindof charming.
Another, another longtimecreator, as well, Debbie Pebble.
One of my favorite people in thecommunity.
Debbie's a really great,streamer and content creator
from Australia and she wouldstream now and then.
Obviously like GBL was sodifferent, but that was huge in
capturing me and my interest inPvP.
It was like, oh, a bunch ofother people that like to have
(22:20):
fun with this.
David Hernandez (22:21):
earlier you said Alfindeol is the reason why
you wanted to stream.
What was it about, being part ofthis community or just observing
him that kind of motivates youto want to start your own Twitch
stream?
NHoff (22:32):
I've been a Twitch viewer for an extremely long time and I
want to say my Twitch accountis...
11, if not 12 years old at thispoint.
back in those days, it wasentirely to watch League of
Legends and LCS.
I've always really enjoyedwatching streams, the kind of
environment, that it cultivateswith, having a chat community,
to be able to share this gamewith, whatever game it is that
(22:53):
you enjoy, sharing that withyour chat and watching
Alfindeol, the way that heengaged with chat, the way the
conversational aspect of PokemonGo, being a much smaller game
than something like League ofLegends or Hearthstone, which
I've also watched a good deal ofand enjoyed.
made the chat experience reallygreat like I've watched a ton
of, what people will call Papegastyle streams where it's a lot
(23:15):
of chatter is spamming and thatcontent can be super enjoyable,
but I also really love like anintimate, streamer chat
experience and environment andthat's something that I really
thought that.
I could engage with as well,especially in a category that I
didn't really see a ton of womenengaged with.
There's, Debbie Pebble, and thiscomes back to, Pokemon Go's
(23:36):
player base, especially GoPBP'splayer base being extremely male
dominated, and then further,like, who's willing to put
themselves out there?
I wanted to be that example, bethat change that I could be.
in the, category.
And again, shout out to peoplelike Debbie Pebble to people
like Momita.
we have wonderful, lovely womenwho create content in this
(23:58):
catergory.
I'm not going to be extensivewith this, but you can
definitely find, really greatfemale content creators who make
great experiences for them andtheir viewers and to me, it's,
it's just the most enjoyableform of content creation.
I've made video content.
I've made a ton of graphiccontent and I love that as well,
but I just really find theTwitch stream, environment just
(24:19):
really charming.
David Hernandez (24:20):
How has being a part of Girls at PVP changed
your experience with Pokemon and
NHoff (24:25):
Yeah! again, have been on Twitch and in, competitive
gaming since 2011.
especially as, as a trans woman,like, being able to see, how
women have been treated ingaming over, over a decade.
And...
obviously, League of Legends,especially early League of
Legends, very toxic environment,like, I knew firsthand, like,
(24:46):
how bad gaming can be, towardswomen and especially towards
queer women, and trans women inparticular.
as soon as I got invited by afriend, Endon7, who's one of my
favorite people in the PokemonGo community, and one of my best
friends in...
life, period, inviting me togirls at PVP and, you know, a
(25:07):
great environment without thepressure that, having male
dominated spaces can give, andespecially Knowing that, even in
Pokemon Go, which tends to be areally good community
comparatively to other games,knowing that misogyny exists,
knowing that, homophobia andtransphobia exists, and like,
having this safe environment todiscuss this game that we love,
(25:28):
to know that people can be newerto this game and not be judged
for it, or, trying out differentthings and not be shot down for
ideas, has been amazing.
I joined girls at P V P in,2019.
And then in like spring of 2020was asked to be an admin for the
server and, it's been myfavorite.
(25:49):
community to advocate for withinthe Pokemon Go community.
I think it's...
It's so incredibly importantespecially as, someone who is
able to perform at a high level,within the game, like, has a
very intimate knowledge of themechanics of the game and, can
play well, like, I, takerepresentation extremely
seriously.
It's something that I love thatI can share.
(26:10):
I've run lecture style classesin GirlsThatPVP myself, and
DPhie, another amazing friend ofmine, one of my best friends,
again, in life, beyond justPokemon Go, but in life.
her and I have led like castingcoaching within that server and
seeing the joy of women in thiscommunity that can focus on What
(26:31):
they enjoy without feeling likethey're going to be judged
without feeling like oh this manThat gives me trouble at my
locals because he always saysthat i'm an easy win or whatever
the things that like Sometimesother men won't believe actually
happens whether it's in dms orin person events like completely
removed from that it's reallybeautiful to see and it's things
where I will know someone in amore public server and They
(26:56):
don't talk nearly as much andthen I see them flourishing
girls at PVP, it just makes meso incredibly happy.
with the past couple years, likebeing involved with some of the
other games, getting to see theHatterene Series for VGC,
getting to meet some of thepeople within Girl Power TCG,
seeing, Unite has an all women'steam propping up.
I think it's called the femmefatales and like seeing these
(27:18):
different spaces, havingcollaborations, we've done
tournaments with a Hatterene aswell.
it's just been beautiful to seeand it.
really makes all of it extremelyworthwhile to me, like knowing
that I'm representing girls atPVP, knowing that I'm helping
invite women to this communityat events and, getting to see
growth from other members of theserver, like nothing, nothing
(27:40):
makes me happier.
David Hernandez (27:43):
You've been listening to As the Pokeball
Turns.
We're gonna take a quick break.
We'll be right back.
(28:48):
NHoff, one thing that peopleknow about you is your signature
Pokemon is Tapu Fini.
How did that all start?
NHoff (28:53):
that's actually a really fun, story, so big shout out to
SpeediestChief2, in particular.
So I...
And a massive shout out, we'llget into, Trogdor, who's a local
of mine.
if you know the faction MuddyWater, he's the captain of that
faction, he's a huge, influenceand presence in Boston in terms
(29:14):
of PvP.
so Trogdor, during the waterfestival event, messaged me
because I worked over inCambridge, which is near where
he...
hangs out at times and hemessaged me and he said, Okay, I
found in this park near yourwork a rank 7 Araquanid like how
available are you to run over?
And I was like, I can take a ahalf hour for dinner And run
(29:37):
over and it was like a 10 15minute walk.
So it was really nice and uhJust being able to see him and
he's hey, do you want to do atrade?
I was like sure like phoeni hadjust released in raids rather
recently He was like, do youwant to try to re roll Fini?
And I got, the Pokemon that isnow, forever tied to me.
it's a 2 attack, 2 defense, 8HP, Tapu Fini, so it gets a
(30:00):
really nice HP point.
And I got it in the trade, itsaid it was 1463 CP, and I was
like, oh, this could either bereally bad or really good
because legendaries have areally high, step size of CP
power up.
So I was like, if I get a powerup, this is gonna be amazing.
If I don't, it's gonna beterrible.
David Hernandez (30:19):
Oh my
NHoff (30:19):
like 1499.
and the rest is history.
The whole, man I love Feeny,phrase, started saying that all
over, because it's true, I lovethe Pokemon.
So, SpeediestChief, the reason Imention him is, there were,
practice tournaments for theseregional championships that were
happening.
and so I entered one with bothof those Pokemon, both Araquanid
(30:43):
and Tapu Fini as well asNoctowl, Galarian Stunfisk, some
other meta Pokemon.
But I really enjoyed those two,and I've always, really enjoyed
water type Pokemon, so they werereally things that I wanted to
test out.
the fluidity of Tapu Fini, wesee people talk about it all the
time, we see like castersmention it.
The Water Gun, Surf, Moon Blast,moveset is just very enjoyable
(31:07):
to me, especially more so thanAzumarill, which is a little bit
slower paced.
It's a lot bulkier, but it'salso lumbering.
I love fluid Pokemon in PokemonGo PvP, and this isn't just
because it's a water type, it'slike the play style of a one
turn fast move.
The power of Water Gun Surf, andespecially of Moonblast, has
(31:27):
closing power.
Just instantly I was, match madein heaven.
both of those, Trog andSpeedius, really solidified, oh,
I want to learn this Pokemonextremely intimately.
There is a high skill ceiling tothis Pokemon.
But, yeah, it was likeinstantly, I fell in love with
this and because it's a tradeunder 1500 pokemon That not a
(31:49):
ton of people have, this issomething that I can learn, and
I will always have, like, thisknowledge that I can have as, my
advantage.
it's a Pokemon that a ton ofother people might not, even
have to test out, but a lot ofother people won't invest it.
I've really enjoyed Tapu Fini,obviously, it's my quote unquote
signature pick because of that,but it's just something that
(32:11):
every time I've used it, I foundit rewarding in one way or
another.
And even people expecting itfrom me now, is something that
can be rewarding as well,playing into the expectations.
I don't see it changing anytimesoon, so long as they don't nerf
Water Gun, Surf, or Moonblast,you can expect me to be running
Tapu Fini at basically everytournament.
(32:32):
I actually have a hundo now thatI need to max out, and I have
the XLs because I've raided somany Tapu Fini because everyone
wants one for me, which is likea great problem to have, don't
get me wrong.
People coming up to me at eventsand being like, I want you to
trade me a great luchini, I wantthe fini from NHoff, I'm just
like, It is the most touchingthing, I still get weird about
people approaching me at events,feeling not, Famous isn't the
(32:55):
right word because it's, thePokemon Go community, it's not
like we're a huge community, butit is, A level of, oh, someone
wants to approach me to say hi,and they're like, Hello, I'm
TropiusFan55, I watch yourTwitch stream, I comment in chat
every now and then, and I'm justlike, this person knows who I
am, this stranger, and it stillhasn't stopped being surreal.
(33:17):
Someone approached me at Worldsin London and was like, will you
sign my phone case?
And it's like this isn't like metrying to brag, this is me
trying to say like, this is It'sstill surreal and it's part of
what I love about Pokemon Go andthe community is people will
seek each other out just to sayhi, just to get a photo, and the
like, connection with me andTapu Fini that has resulted and
(33:40):
has this like Influence and thisimpact and people will want to
immediately talk to me about it,like what do you think about
Feeny with the move updates?
it's something that I don't takefor granted.
I feel very privileged to havethis kind of standing and, it's
something that I'm really gladthat I dove so heavily into Tapu
Fini for because, being thesubject matter expert for a
(34:02):
Pokémon, for lack of a betterphrase, is really cool and being
able to be that as a woman inthe community, I think is just
huge as well.
David Hernandez (34:10):
What is it about it being surreal?
Because, when I look at whatyou've done so far, you've been
to worlds twice, you've are veryheavy involved with in the
community itself.
Is it just the fact that youdon't feel like you don't
deserve that kind ofrecognition?
Or is it more of?
It's too good to be true kind ofthing.
NHoff (34:29):
you're keying on kind of two sides of it.
There is a lot of, self doubtor, self, criticism of, Oh, why
are, why is someone excited tosee me?
I'm just another person.
I'm just another player.
we're all playing this gametogether.
but it's also, yeah, surreal andlike, I don't expect it to
happen like, too good to betrue, kind of like, Oh, I'm
(34:50):
being recognized for my play inthis TapTap phone app, as, we
call it.
Some of it comes back to, like,so much of my learning of the
game is stuff that I would justhyperfixate on anyway, and I'm
just like, Oh, when I, playedthousands of hours of RuneScape,
I was just another player, butnow when I'm playing, so much of
Go and learning so much aboutthe game, because it's a
(35:11):
competitive game, it's somethingthat, garners respect, and
garners fame, and, like, it'salso, I didn't approach content
creation trying to be, like, abig name, nor do I think I am,
like, comparatively to others inthe game, but, it still is
something where I'm, like, arecognized trainer, or Thanks
What they put up at regionals, Ithink it's called Notable
Trainers, Players to Watch, Ithink is another one they'll put
(35:33):
on the streams.
And it's oh, I'm on there.
Oh, at Peoria, like...
I'm playing 15 games in a row onstream and like getting put on
youtube and gaining a ton offollowers and like it happens
obviously and that's exposureand all that but like I don't
always Connect that likementally and then like people
will approach me and be like,oh, I loved watching you play
(35:56):
against hot pocket in Peoria andI'm just like oh, yeah, like
people watch these like I itfeels so dumb to say out loud
But like it is that kind of liketoo good to be true.
I try to stay extremely, humbleis like the classic word, but
like, respectful of, everyonethat I face, and, even in, Go
Battle League and all.
There's a certain level you getto when everyone's good, so...
(36:18):
Why am I special?
Why is someone approaching meand asking me for a photo?
And, I know that's like amindset that doesn't really make
sense because there can be a lotof really good players, but it's
just like, where my brain goesto, I'm like, Okay, I'm just
another, I'm just another persontapping my phone.
David Hernandez (36:36):
No, that makes sense.
Because like you said earlier,you didn't go into this for fame
or to be well known.
You went into this because youwere just passionate about PVP
and you just wanted to getinvolved.
You started doing contentcreation and you just got
involved with girls at PvP andgo stadium and now you're almost
a household name basically atthis point.
It becomes to the point to wherelike, oh, I was just doing it
(36:56):
just for I enjoyed it I didn'treally do this in hopes of
having my name up there with allthe others
NHoff (37:02):
Yeah, The first time that they broadcast like world
qualified for trainers on thestream.
And I saw mine up there withpocket with Stark, with Elam.
it was just surreal to be like,Oh, and it's not like I hadn't
seen the success in KBP up tothat point.
I've done things like eight aerodraft league.
I had done go stadiums tiersystem up to the God rank.
(37:23):
That's where my Twitter usernameof goddessNHoff comes from like
there's.
Things that I had done and seensuccess in there, but then like
suddenly it was so much morereal Like you're saying like I
have taken it through the lensof I want to be representation
For girls at PvP.
I want to be good representationfor girls at PvP like I present
myself very professionally.
(37:44):
I try to do very good work forthings like the Pokemon website
articles that I've done forWorld in London, the preview and
the review that I did and otherarticles since, and like, how I
present myself in a stream,trying to, teach new players,
and, trying to continue to dowell at tournaments and be that
representation, that, to me, isso much more rewarding than, Oh,
(38:09):
I had five additional viewers inmy Twitch stream.
If I can have two women joinGirls at PVP and have their,
growth in this game fostered,and have that sense of community
for them, that means so muchmore at the end of every day,
and it's really something that,I didn't even, start my journey
with this in mind, but it's justwhat I've found so incredibly
(38:29):
fulfilling, and especially,again, queer women and trans
women, like, I've formedextremely close bonds with trans
members of the Go community, ofthe greater Pokemon community as
well, and having these sharedexperiences and being able to,
relate to kindred spirits, it'sjust, extremely fulfilling and,
through gaming as an avenue thatI never expected it to, having
(38:51):
grown up with extremely toxicgaming environments, it's really
surreal, and it's something thatI feel blessed for every time I
compete, every time I put on my,Stadium Elite jersey and go to
compete at a tournament, a lotof these emotions just
continuously hit me, and that's,why I keep doing it, that's why
I go to so many, and, why I'malways so happy to, continue to
(39:11):
be involved in the GO communityas extensively as I can, to the
point where, I get told a lotto, do less, be, like, less
agreeable to do things, to, helpout with things, but it's just
the most rewarding thing.
David Hernandez (39:25):
You spoke about how you had those articles
written, and they were publishedby Pokemon themselves.
How did that feel?
Like, if I was in your shoes,I'd imagine myself being
ecstatic, jumping up in myplace.
Like, that's a big deal in
NHoff (39:38):
So, one of the, one of the weirdest...
experiences, is going on toTwitter and seeing a DM from
someone who says they're theeditor for Pokemon.com.
and they're messaging andthey're saying, Hey, we, we know
you're a top player.
we've seen you on the, Go BattleLeague leaderboards, and we've
seen some of your written work.
(39:59):
Would you be interested inwriting an article for Pokemon.
com?
My immediate reaction was, Verymuch freaking out, and very
much, am I being scammed?
Like, am I,
David Hernandez (40:09):
Yeah,
NHoff (40:10):
is this real?
Like, I, I go to the, the guy's,profile, and it says, content
manager for, Pokemon.com, orChief Editor, I forget what his
official title is, but, Luckily,I was, friends with, Gabi Snyder
at the time, and still am, butknew her from having done the,
Battle for Rose stream, the,charity stream we did directly
(40:30):
after NAIC last year, in thewake of the Roe v.
Wade, Supreme Court decision,and so I was like, hey Gabi! Is
this what a Pokemon companyemail looks like?
what this guy just gave me tocontact him.
Is this legit?
And he was like, yes, it'slegit.
Also, congratulations.
And I was just like, freakingout, jumping up and down.
also oh, I can't tell anyoneabout this, this is such a weird
(40:53):
experience.
huge honor.
Still my favorite piece ofwritten work that I've done to
this day was my preview for the2022 World Championships because
it was the first WorldChampionships for Pokemon Go.
it was my first, article for thePokemon.
com website, and for Pokemon.
com, it was the first writtenpiece by a Pokemon Go community
(41:18):
member.
There were articles written by,Pokemon.
com staff.
There were articles written byGabi, who is a Pokemon GO
community member, but she's aVGC player.
She is a VGC caster.
She has joined our community,but it felt very real to have
them reach out to someone whowas not from any other
(41:38):
established community, again,not at all to disparage Gabi,
but like, I had entirely startedmy Pokemon career from a formal
perspective in the Go community.
And that was something that wasa huge honor, and still to this
day is not lost on me.
So, it was pretty insane.
Like, it was, incredible, andgetting to see it published, I
(42:00):
saved the, screenshot of thewebsite.
now that I've moved into alarger place, I want to get it
framed like it is.
It's still one of the wildestmoments to me, and, I messaged
at the time when it published,the, like, inner child, jumps
for joy of, like, that'sPokemon, that's the Pokemon
website and my image and my nameare on it, there's a little
(42:22):
blurb about me like at thebottom of the article.
I've been featured on thestream.
Gabby interviewed me inArlington at the Arlington
Regional like there's been somany moments that I feel so
blessed for.
obviously a culmination ofefforts, but still, just also
recognizing that, so manyexternal factors have led to
(42:42):
this, and I am blessed for everysingle one of them.
I am so thankful that I've beengiven these opportunities and
that I've been able to continue,working with the website that
I've been continued to befeatured as a player, like, I
get to have a pretty goodcommunication with Daniel, who's
the producer for the streams.
We talked at Worlds about, like,hey, if you have a good run,
(43:04):
like, we have stuff prepped foryou for stream, and like that is
so incredibly, heartwarming of,like, this is a community of
People who want to highlightothers and do care about
misrepresentation.
there's no surprise in the factthat the other, like, member of
the Go community who's beeninvolved heavily in writing
(43:24):
articles Is Soph Toth.
the person who reached out to meabout writing for the website
cares about having women writersand like that to me just
continues to cement, like,talking to Daniel about, Hey,
what are some, who are somewomen that you know are going to
this regional?
Who do you think like we couldhighlight on the stream?
it's never lost on me.
It is so incredibly, incrediblyexciting to see so much
(43:48):
investment in this from acommunity as a whole.
And yeah, there are bad actors.
I've certainly had my experiencewith bad actors, but
comparatively just so incrediblygreat.
David Hernandez (44:00):
The last thing that we're going to touch on is
just your world run.
Most specifically, you actuallygot a chance to participate in
Japan.
what was it like for you to goto Japan, the birth of Pokemon,
and be able to participate inworlds?
NHoff (44:11):
Japan was my first Worlds as a competitor.
It was also, as you're saying,the birthplace of Pokemon.
It was also the inspiration forthe first four Pokemon regions.
I did a Pokemon tourism trip toJapan.
that was entirely guided bymyself and Stella Tesla, a very
close friend of mine from theNetherlands.
(44:32):
who traveled with me and we wentto kyushu the bottom like area
of japan like bottom islandwhere the hoenn region was based
on we spent time going todifferent cities that were
inspirations for cities inHoenn.
And then, obviously GoFestOsaka, Osaka was in the Kansai
(44:53):
region, which was theinspiration for Johto.
And we got to go to differentcities, DPhiE250 as well.
arrived in Japan around thistime.
We got to go to different citiesthat inspired areas of the Jōtō
region.
And then, obviously, Yokohamawas the inspiration for
Vermilion City in the Kantoregion.
We got to explore that region.
So, like, talking again about,the inner child, my childhood
(45:16):
eyes, being able to be like, Ohmy goodness, that is, the area
that Fallarbor Town was inspiredby, the Hot Springs, I get to
visit this video game that hasbeen so integral to my life,
especially now, and then I getto compete at my first ever
Worlds.
There's no words to describe thefull, encapsulated experience,
(45:37):
but it is, by far, like, thecoolest, like, three weeks
timeframe of my entire life atthis point.
It was...
It's so incredibly surreal, Iknow I'm beating that word to
death, but throughout it, justit's your childhood, fantasies
come to life.
you are living through thisworld, you are competing at the
highest level, as the title ofPokémon Master, it's the
(46:00):
closest, experience to thatexists, and it's why I love this
franchise so much.
David Hernandez (46:06):
I remember you posted photos on Twitter, and I
was geeking out because I don'tknow much about the
inspirations, obviously I knowthe region, but I don't know the
inspirations on how closely theywere to the town.
I think the one I commented onwas the Mount Chimney, I asked
you the question about, oh, isthere a rail car?
And that was actually myquestion.
Like, how similar was it goingto these towns compared to what
(46:28):
we see in the games?
Like, what are some of thesimilarities that stick out to
you?
NHoff (46:31):
obviously things get exaggerated because it's a video
game and they're so muchsmaller, but the amount of
things that you see That aresimilar, it's really jarring,
like, Takeda was one of thetowns that inspired, Lavaridge.
And being like, oh, like, thisis, near Mount Aso, which is the
(46:51):
largest volcano in Japan andlike, you can go to an onsen,
which are the hot, baths.
And oh, that's exactly like inthe game, like you can get your
Wynaut egg.
from the old couple at the hotspring bath in Lavaridge.
we went to Mount Aso, and yeah,there wasn't a cable car, it was
a, it was a bus up to the top ofthe mountain, but you can see
entirely how it inspired, thearea.
(47:13):
We went to, Kumamoto, which isthe inspiration for Mauville,
and like, No, there's not a hugepower plant.
It's not a huge, like electricaltown, but you see the Komoto
castle and it's like, oh, I cansee how this inspired the gym of
that city.
especially in Johto, becauseJohto, or rather Kansai in the
real world is so heavilydripping with Japanese culture.
(47:36):
we went to, Nara and Kyoto,which are the inspirations for
violet City and Ecruteak City,And you get to see the temples
that inspired the, Burns Towerand the Bellsprout Tower and the
Golden Tower in real life.
And you're like, I can seeexactly where this game came
from.
(47:56):
I can see the golden, birdthat's at the top of this temple
that's...
The inspiration for Ho-oh as aPokemon and it's really cool.
You get to see wild deer in Naraand you're like, I can see why
they wanted stantler as aPokemon in the Johto region.
I think that in particular wasjust so cool to me.
Osaka was based on, GoldenrodAnd they have this huge radio
(48:21):
tower in the middle of the citythat the Goldenrod radio tower
obviously was based on.
They have an entire undergroundarea, which is where we actually
played most of Osaka GoFest, butit's where the Goldenrod
Underground is based on.
So, obviously it varies city tocity, how much of its
inspiration you see, but it was,like, to a level that I was not
(48:42):
expecting.
I was expecting little,landmarks here and there, but
they were able to capture somuch of this area in a very
simple video game, it wasincredible.
David Hernandez (48:53):
Did it feel like it brought that video game
to life to where like, you know,obviously you played Gen 2 and
Gen 3.
did it feel like when youentered these cities, like the
games gave it a new dimension?
NHoff (49:03):
You're exactly spot on.
I was like, I feel like I'm inEcruteak City.
I feel like I'm in Johto rightnow.
And I am, because it's theinspiration for it, but it's
like...
I get to see these landmarks,and I get to see these things,
and you're entirely right, Ifeel a deeper connection for
this game and this franchise asa result.
(49:24):
I love Hoenn as a region, havingexperienced it, like, Takeda,
which was one of theinspirations for Lavaridge, it's
probably my favorite city I'vevisited in all of my travels
ever.
It was so incredibly cool, bothbecause I loved this, video
game, but also because it wasjust such a great area.
Beautiful nature, really quaint,smaller town.
(49:46):
Which again, fits with the vibein the video game, there's three
houses there.
I felt like this like fangirlfor the Pokemon franchise the
entire time and that getsexaggerated at Pokemon centers
and so on.
As you said, brought an entireextra element to this franchise.
I want to continue doing it.
I want to go back and visitHokkaido, which is the
inspiration for Sinnoh.
(50:08):
New York I've done, obviously,with Unova, but visit, the parts
of France that were inspirationsfor Kalos and Worlds 2024, I
guess I'll be able to visitAlola, because it'll be in
Hawaii, but it's something thatI am so glad that I did, and
would recommend to anyone who'sa huge fan of the franchise to
do something like this, becauseit was...
(50:28):
It was incredible.
David Hernandez (50:30):
NHoff, we're nearing the end of the show.
You've been a wonderful guest.
I do have one last questionbefore we close this taco stand.
NHoff (50:36):
Oh, of course.
David Hernandez (50:38):
You've really been passionate about
representation within thePokémon GO community, both for
women as well as for thetransgender community.
When you finally put the game ofPokemon Go down, and you're
done, what do you hope peopleremember you for?
NHoff (50:53):
Damn.
oh, is cursing okay?
David Hernandez (50:55):
Yeah, it's fine.
NHoff (50:56):
wow, that's a heavy one.
I would like to think that I amremembered for this game as
someone who gave their all tomaking it a better game,
whenever I wind up steppingaway, or if, whatever my legacy
winds up happening, is that Imade the game and the community
(51:16):
better at the end of it thanwhen it started.
especially again for women,queer individuals and trans
individuals in particular.
the idea that I'd have anypositive impact in those
directions, it means the worldto me.
I had the pleasure and theprivilege of, getting to meet
some for lack of a better term,idols of mine, in the trans
(51:38):
community, in gaming, throughthis game, and, hearing
compliments about what I doalready for representation, and,
advocacy, it is, again, the mostfulfilling thing possible.
If people can say, I feltcomfortable starting to stream
because of NHoff, because ofAna, that is the most beautiful
(52:00):
thing I can hear.
If someone says, I feltcomfortable competing at an
event and putting myself outthere in public because of
NHoff, These are things thatI've heard and just, floor me
every time more than anyoneapproaching me.
It's what it's all about and mylegacy, I don't care what it
says about me as a player.
this is another thing, I don'twant to be the best female
player in the world.
(52:21):
I know there's a lot of peoplewho do, and I know there's...
a lot of times, men in thecommunity will be like, Oh,
she's surely the best femaleplayer about myself, about
Paula, about Andris, aboutwhoever.
That's not important to me.
getting the most, views onTwitch, or, getting, some of
these opportunities in, creationand writing and being featured
(52:43):
in, videos or graphics orwhatever.
Individually, it's amazing, butit doesn't matter at all
comparatively to knowing thatI'm helping push that needle.
And if I'm remembered as, thefirst, trans woman competitor at
Worlds, the first, breakinginto, heavily featured in
(53:04):
competition and on streams andall of this and paving the way
for other queer folk to feelcomfortable to compete, other
women to feel comfortable tocompete.
That is what it's all about, itis what matters at the end of
the day for me.
David Hernandez (53:17):
That's a show.
Thank you for coming on to theshow.
Before you do go, if people wantto connect with you, if they
wanted to watch your streams,where could they go?
By all means, please plug away.
NHoff (53:27):
I'm most active on Twitter or X now, but Twitter
David Hernandez (53:33):
Whatever they decide call themselves.
NHoff (53:35):
Yeah, it's twitter.
com slash, at goddessNHoff or onTwitch, it's nahoff.
I stream most weekdays, 9 a.
m.
Eastern Time.
and then I'm active here orthere.
If you're in the Go StadiumDiscord, you'll...
be able to see me on thesidebar.
I'm always very well, open totalking to people about the
game.
especially again a woman baddleris listening to this, or just a
(53:59):
woman player is interested injoining girls at PvP, just send
me a message, I would be sohappy to connect you to the
community.
you'll definitely see me at abunch of regional tournaments
this year as well So look outfor me at those
David Hernandez (54:12):
Cool beans, and I'll make sure to include links
to everything she said in thedescription of today's episode.
Thank you for listening to Asthe Pokeball Turns.
If you want to support the show,consider becoming a patron by
either clicking the link in thedescription or going to
patreon.com/asthepokeballturns.
Now here's a sneak peek for thenext episode of As the Pokeball
Turns.
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