November 15, 2023 • 33 mins
We truly are lucky here in Canada to enjoy many different food choices for our diets. Questions do arise on different proteins we consume: how much is enough, what do we need and are plant and animal-based proteins the same? Long-time dietitian and mother, Carol Harrison, answers these questions through a fun and meaningful dialogue about how meat protein is structured differently than plant protein. She also includes some tips on how to extend your meat budget a bit more.
Host: Clinton Monchuk
Clinton Monchuk grew up on a mixed dairy, beef and grain family farm outside of Lanigan, Saskatchewan. He received his Bachelors of Science in Agriculture majoring in Agricultural Economics from the University of Saskatchewan and Masters of Business Administration in Agriculture from the University of Guelph. Clinton has enjoyed numerous roles across Canada, the United States and Mexico as a researcher, educator, manager, economist and director of trade policy.
In 2016, Clinton accepted the role of Executive Director with Farm & Food Care Saskatchewan to promote farming and ranching to consumers. Clinton understands the value of increasing public trust in agriculture and actively promotes engagement between the agriculture industry and consumers.
Clinton, Laura and their children Jackson and Katelyn, continue to be active partners on their family grain and layer farm in Saskatchewan and cattle ranch in Oklahoma.
Guest: Carol Harrison
Carol Harrison is a registered dietitian who loves to focus on helping Canadians put nutrition into practice in the kitchen. Carol is mom to three awesome kids. She’s a Toronto-based food and nutrition communications consultant and says she pretty much spends all day reading, writing, cooking or eating food—this is probably why her dog is always by her side! Carol is excited to share insights from her 20-year journey combining her interests in agriculture, food and nutrition. You can follow Carol on IG @CarolHarrison.RD
Resources:
How exercise and diet help prevent muscle loss
Iron Deficiency
What is food synergy?
Free Learn To Cook Courses
Episode Credits: Research and writing by Dorothy Long and Penny Eaton, Produced and edited by Angela Larson, Music by Andy Ellison-Track title: Gravel Road
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Clinton Monchuk (00:00):
From Canadian Food Focus. This is Ask a
Farmer. I'm your host ClintonMonchuk. A Saskatchewan farmer.
In this podcast, we talk tofood experts to answer your
questions about your food . Hieveryone, and welcome to the
(00:28):
podcast. Today we're going tobe talking a little bit about a
balanced diet and how we canuse some animal proteins in
that. So, right off the bat, Iwant to say we are so lucky
here in this country to have somany different choices of food.
And when you go into a grocerystore, there's tons of
different plant-based proteins,animal-based proteins, you name
(00:48):
it, we have it. We are verylucky to have all the numerous
different choices that we dohere in this country. What
we're going to be talking abouttoday is more on the animal
protein side and trying tounderstand that a little bit
more. So I want to disclosethat I have some bias in the
game here. So I was raised on acattle farm and a dairy farm,
(01:10):
and still married into aranching family down in
Oklahoma where we're stillactive down there. So I want to
take some of the bias out ofthis. And what we're doing with
that is talking to CarolHarrison . What we want to talk
about is , like I said, the balanced t ype. But before we
get into that, I want all ourlisteners to understand a
(01:30):
little bit more about yourbackground. You are the expert
in this field. . A nd I think alot of the listeners can gain
from some of your knowledge. Soyou want to just explain a
little bit of your backgroundand then we can get into some
of the nuts and bolts.
Carol Harrison (01:43):
Well, thanks Clinton. Yes. I'm a registered
dietitian. I live and work inToronto. I have three kids and
one fur baby. I'm a registereddietitian. Proud to be a
registered dietitian. Iactually studied at the
University of Guelph and thereare lots of agriculture
students there. So it was agreat combination of food,
agriculture, and nutrition. Ijust loved that. And my focus
really as a dietitian is toshow people how to eat
(02:04):
nourishing foods, but keep ittasty and uncomplicated. It
doesn't need to be too muchwork , o r overcomplicated for
sure. We all want to live welland eat well, and just keep it
simple. Right. Now, youmentioned that you w ere being
transparent growing up a t adairy farm and yo ur f amily
has cattle. And I just want tomention as well, as a
dietitian, I always wear mydietitian hat first. An d s o
(02:25):
even though I have alsoconsulted for the animal
agriculture groups, I onlyshare information that is
evidence-based and things thatI know is going to add value
and that I really believe, youknow, is, um, g ood information
and food that I would recommendfor my own family.
Clinton Monchuk (02:41):
One of the things that you actually talk
about is, you know, if youcould roughly split up your
plate when you're eating, halfof it should be veggies. A
quarter of it should be wholegrains. And then the other
quarter is supposed to beproteins. So what we want to do
with this segment is kind ofdrill down into some of these
(03:01):
proteins and understand how wecan better balance our, I like
to say ration on the, thelivestock side, but we're not
rationed, balance our diet. forthe proteins. So first of all,
are all proteins created equalor is there differences between
that we sometimes don't reallytalk about?
Carol Harrison (03:21):
Well, you know , not all proteins are created
equal Clinton. And there's afew things that are important
to keep in mind in relation tothat. So number one is the
nutrition profile can be verydifferent. Uh, we've got, like
you said, so many wonderfulfoods that we could eat here in
Canada that do contain protein.
Thankfully, lots of them thatare produced on Canadian, you
know, farms, coast to coast aswell. And the nutrition
(03:42):
profile, of course can vary. Sofatty fish, you know , are
going to be offering us omegathree fats great for brain
health and heart health andbeans are going to be offering
us fiber important for our, ourgut health and to keep our
blood sugars in check red meat,like beef, for example, rich in
iron, which makes the feel-goodhormone serotonin. So the
package of nutrients that comeswith the protein can be very
(04:03):
different because we get ,proteins from animal sources
and plant sources. So thenutrients can be different. The
other thing that we need tokeep in mind that can be
different is the amount ofprotein. And so meat is a very
concentrated source of protein.
And what that practically meansis to get the same amount of
protein from meat, youtypically would have to eat
maybe several portions ofplant-based proteins. And then
(04:25):
the third thing that makes themdifferent is, and animal
proteins that people haveprobably heard this before
called complete proteins. Andplant proteins are incomplete
except for things like tofu andedamame . Um, like the soy
based foods, quinoa as wellactually. Um, so incomplete
meaning they don't contain allthe essential amino acids that
our body needs. And those arebuilding blocks to build
(04:47):
proteins that are owned bodies.
So they don't contain all thoseessential amino acids. But when
you combine proteins and eat avariety of proteins, and maybe
you're mixing in someanimal-based foods as well,
it's really not an issue. Butyes, not all protein foods are
created equal. Those are threethings to keep in mind.
Clinton Monchuk (05:02):
I'm trying to understand. So how can we
ensure we get enough of thisprotein? Because the more I
look at , um, whether it'saging or different stages in
your life, Mm-Hmm
Carol Harrison (05:13):
Mm-Hmm , ,
Clinton Monchuk (05:13):
It requires differing amounts of protein
and , and if you're working outor exercising, again, that that
requires different , uh, levelsof protein. But how do we
ensure that we in our stages oflife are actually getting
enough protein for our dietsto, to fulfill, like you said,
the body's needs?
Carol Harrison (05:29):
Yeah. Well if you don't mind, Clint , can I
just back up really quickly andjust try to bust a myth that we
don't actually get too muchprotein? 'cause a lot of
people, they kind of dismissthat and they think, well, we
get too much protein anyway.
Like, why do I need to worryabout even getting enough? And
so , uh, according to the bestdata that we have available in
Canada, Canadians are gettingabout, I'm going to get a
little technical here,. That's okay. 17% of their
(05:51):
calories from protein. I'm notsuggesting anyone needs to do
the math. Never figure that outbecause you miss a dietitian. I
have never once done that.
Clinton Monchuk (05:58):
So I'm an economist. I'd love to take the
numbers, but I, I thinkmajority of the other people
probably are just okay . 70% . Right .
Carol Harrison (06:05):
So 17. But let me give you, so to context
though, the range is from 10 to35. Okay.
Clinton Monchuk (06:11):
Is
Carol Harrison (06:11):
The recommendation. So we're
sitting on the lower end ofthat range. So it's not true
that we're over consumingprotein. So that's the number
one thing. And then, so how dowe get enough? Well, you
mentioned that for sure. Needscan vary. You've got a son who
plays AAA baseball, growing,you know, athlete. His needs
might be different than, youknow, one of his peers in his
class. A pregnant women's needsare going to be different. You
(06:31):
know, my parents when they werein their eighties, like their
needs were different as well.
So you can find a registereddietitian, they'll help with
individual needs, but you know,it's a good ballpark for most
of us. Basically kind ofhealthy, optimal living, we're
looking to make, like you said,the outset one quarter of our
plate protein. And so thatcould be a mix of plant and
animal-based proteins. And agood ballpark if people really
(06:54):
want numbers is maybe, again,for adults about 25 to 30 grams
of protein per day. But ifyou're shooting for that
quarter plate, that's reallygoing to be fine. One tip I
want to add in there is thatbreakfast is usually the meal
that's most shortchange forprotein. So if people are
trying to think, well, whereshould I put my focus? I would
say focus in on breakfast.
'cause typically that's wherewe're not getting enough
(07:15):
protein. And again, justunderlining trying to get a
variety of plant andanimal-based proteins and not
to forget our snacks. So try tobuild in some protein with
those snacks, because that'sgoing to help us to feel full a
little bit longer and make itto that next meal. So
Clinton Monchuk (07:28):
You mentioned one thing about maybe not
getting enough protein rightoff the, the hop in the morning
, uh, when we're starting ourday out. Mm-Hmm.
, does that have some effectson our body then throughout the
day? So for example, if I have, um, say something that does
not have protein for mybreakfast meal, does it have an
(07:48):
effect of, of possibly evenslowing me down during the day?
Is is that,
Carol Harrison (07:53):
Well, it's really important. Our bodies
don't store proteins. So ourbody will take the protein from
food and they'll break it downinto these individual amino
acids, and then they recombinethose into new proteins in our
body and it doesn't reallystore them. So it's waiting for
that protein. So we do need itthroughout the day. So it's
waiting for us to provide thoseamino acids so it can build
(08:13):
Clinton. There's over a hundredthousand proteins our bodies
build . Like, isn't thatamazing? Every single cell in
our body, it's a major part ofevery single cell in our body.
So it can also slow you down.
Yes. Because as I mentionedwith the snacks, it helps us to
feel fuller longer. So if youhad a tea and toast kind of
breakfast, then that's notreally going to set you up for
feeling satisfied and energizedand keep you going, giving you
(08:35):
that lasting energy to go tilllunchtime. And so what that
might mean is that mid-morningyou're hungry. And what do we
reach for mid-morning often?
Maybe it's going to be anothergrain product, so it might not
be like something that's gotprotein in it. And again, our
body is waiting for those aminoacids throughout the day , uh,
to kind of top us up so that itcan do what it needs to do
behind the scenes keeping us,you know, our brains and bodies
(08:57):
working smoothly, functioningwell.
Clinton Monchuk (09:00):
If we know we gotta add some of these
proteins into our , our dietand , and like you said, try
and make a balance throughoutthe day so our body can, can
keep that, that rhythm going.
What other nutrients do some ofthese animal-based proteins
provide for us that, you know,help us get what our body
needs?
Carol Harrison (09:19):
Right. So of course meat, I like to always
mention it's a singleingredient food , so there's
nothing added, there's nothingtaken away. And it does provide
protein, which people oftenthink of, but they don't always
think of the package, like yousaid, that bundle of nutrients
that comes with the proteinwith vitamins and the minerals.
And not only is there a widearray of vitamins and minerals,
(09:40):
so for example, beef has 13essential nutrients in addition
to protein that it offers, butit's also in a form that's
highly bioavailable littletechnical term there, which
basically just means the bodycan use it and absorb it really
well. And so usually meats aswell provide this great package
of nutrients vital for goodhealth for a modest number of
(10:01):
calories as well. So that's theother thing to keep in mind as
well. And it's really relevantright now to eat nutrient rich
foods because recent data hasshown that a lot of Canadians
are falling short in keynutrients, many of which are
actually provided by meat. Soiron, zinc, vitamin B 12,
you'll get those from meats.
And B 12 you'll only get frommeats. Um, actually, and the
(10:22):
form again is reallybioavailable. It's well used by
the body. So adding some, youknow, maybe a little more meat
to your diet can help Canadiansmake up for some of those
nutrient shortfalls.
Clinton Monchuk (10:31):
Like I mentioned before, there's a ton
of different articles that ourlisteners can go to on canadian
food focus.org .
Carol Harrison (10:37):
Yes.
Clinton Monchuk (10:38):
But a few of them are talking about how as
we age, some of the musclemaybe break down a little bit
more. Yes. So maybe explain andand there's a specific name to
that process. Sure . And Itried to pronounce it before
and , and I'm not going topronounce it now because I know
I'm going to mess it up, butwhat, what can the meat protein
(10:59):
do in an effort to help withthat process?
Carol Harrison (11:02):
Right. Okay. So as we age, whether we like it
or not, we start to lose musclemass sort of from our forties
onward. And the term is calledsarcopenia.
Clinton Monchuk (11:10):
There you go.
That was
Carol Harrison (11:11):
The name . Yeah . And it's kind
of like, think of likeosteoporosis for your bones,
but for your muscles. So manypeople are familiar with
osteoporosis that it's aweakening of the bones as we
get , um, older, but they'renot so familiar with
sarcopenia. Now we can't stopit Clinton, but we can slow it
down . Gotcha . And wecan slow it down by eating a
protein rich diet, but alsoexercise is important. So you
(11:32):
can't, you can't have onewithout the other, you know,
you've gotta work that muscle.
And it's really important asfor healthy, active aging,
again from 40 onwards. So we'renot talking elderly, I'm not
talking like 70 year olds here,like from our forties onward,
we want to make sure that we'reoptimizing getting enough good
quality protein and workingthat muscle as well. Because
when you don't have enoughmuscle mass, you're more likely
(11:53):
to have falls. And we probablyall know someone in our family,
an an , an aunt or maybe a , aparent who the fall was the
first start of their demise.
Right. And it can really impactyour quality of life. We all
want to live as long aspossible independently. So
like, okay. Like, honestly likesimple things like getting up
and off the toilet and beingable to like, you know, do your
(12:14):
groceries and those kind ofthings so that you don't have
to have someone else help you.
Clinton Monchuk (12:17):
Yeah.
Carol Harrison (12:17):
,
that's what we're talking about
here, like really importantlifestyle considerations.
Clinton Monchuk (12:22):
And that already starts in your forties.
So it already starts with thatprocess to limit some of those
, those abilities . So, and youmentioned two things. One is
making sure that you have thatright protein and, and , uh,
the meat sources give you thatbalanced , uh, you know, with
all the nutrients and, and someof those amino acids and stuff,
but also making sure thatyou're active Mm-Hmm .
(12:44):
, you know,trying to start that to make
sure that you have a goodlifestyle well into your aged
years. I , I think is a , it'sgreat advice, right?
Carol Harrison (12:54):
Yeah. And weight bearing exercise. So
it's not enough to walk, yougotta be lifting the weights,
lifting the
Clinton Monchuk (12:59):
Weight, pumping the iron,
Carol Harrison (13:00):
In some , in some, yeah. In some shape or
form, you know, like it doesn'thave to be going to a gym. It
can be your body weight, butYeah. Uh , most Canadians are
not meeting the physicalactivity guidelines, so they
can always look those up onlineas well to see how they're
doing there. But both areimportant. And you had
mentioned meat's important, andI just want to emphasize again,
you know, we get protein fromplant-based foods too. And
really it's the mix of boththat is ideal for our diet
(13:23):
because the plant-based foodshave some things like say
fibrin folate that animal foodsdon't have. Animal foods would
have, you know, B 12 and reallybioavailable source of
nutrients that are limited in,in plants, but it's together
they work better together.
Clinton Monchuk (13:39):
Yeah. Which, which gets back to the whole
idea of a , a balanced dietwith the different foods. And
you mentioned, you know, weneed to be more active. I was
at a conference with you at theRoyal Winter Fair, I think, and
and I believe you were the, themoderator. Oh my . And you got
me off my seat and we had todo, I don't know if it was at
some dance or some wiggle orwhatever it was
Carol Harrison (13:57):
A salsa. Salsa .
Clinton Monchuk (13:58):
That's what it was . Salsa
Carol Harrison (13:59):
Salsa, yeah.
Yeah.
Clinton Monchuk (14:01):
But, but it was, it was great. I did it in
my cowboy boots and it, it was great because it
made me energized for the restof the meeting. So
Carol Harrison (14:08):
Yeah. And every people laugh . Oh yeah . 'cause
we were being a little bitsilly doing the salsa and
everyone's a little bit awkwardand , and they totally were not
expecting that. They probablythought I was going to say,
let's roll our head on one sideor the other and
Clinton Monchuk (14:19):
fall
asleep. Yeah.
Carol Harrison (14:20):
Fun fact. I used to be a fitness instructor
Clinton Monchuk (14:22):
Years ago, so .
Carol Harrison (14:24):
Yeah. Yeah.
.
Clinton Monchuk (14:26):
So I've, I've heard of people talking about
cutting back on saturated fat.
So this is something thatMm-Hmm . , it
seems like it comes in, comesout in , in the media and
different studies that come in.
How does that factor into ourdecision of consuming red meat?
Carol Harrison (14:41):
Right. Well, I'm really glad you bring that
up, Clinton, because as adietitian, I do worry that
people might fear eating meatwhen they hear these messages.
And of course, we've talkedabout it being a nutrient rich
source of nutrients, manynutrients of which Canadians
are not getting enough of. And,you know, maybe we should have
started this podcast talkingabout how, you know, the human
species of the eating meat forlike over a million years. You
(15:04):
know, I'll tell you that I, oneof the reasons why I love to
eat meat is simply the tastesgrilled steak with some chimi
cherry sauce on it. I'm inheaven. It nourishes my soul
and my body. Yeah . So Ireally, I do worry about people
limiting it, like for thenourishment, but also the taste
and enjoyment and pleasure thatit brings, because that's an
important part of healthyeating as well. So back to the
(15:24):
saturated fat, well, that ideathat saturated fat causes heart
disease was introduced in the1950s. Just a little backstory
on this, but it was alwaysbased on really weak evidence.
And they've gone back over thatevidence. And in the last
decade, they've also done morestudies, bigger studies, larger
quality studies, globalstudies, over 20 review papers
that have basically concludedpretty much that saturated fats
(15:47):
have no effect oncardiovascular disease or total
mortality. Now, Clinton, justto give you a perspective on
some of these studies, like theepic study was a half a million
people followed for 12 years.
So we're talking some reallysignificant papers that were,
again, very rigorous. And Iwould say my perspective is
that the policymakers, youknow, really do have to catch
(16:07):
up on the science. The FAO,that's the Food and agriculture
organization with UnitedNations just recently came out
with a paper and they reviewed500 scientific papers. And what
they wanted to do wassynthesize the risks, like the
analysis, kind of the pros andcons of consuming modest
amounts of unprocessed meat. Sothat means like your steaks and
your roast, like, like, andlike I said, nothing added,
nothing taken away. And theysaid that if you were in the
(16:30):
range between nine and 71 gramsper day, there's a minimal
health risk. Okay. So then thequestion becomes, well, how
much are Canadians eating?
Well, we're kind of like smackin the middle of that ish.
We're around 41 grams per day.
So they reviewed 500 papers,they're independent. This isn't
something coming from the, youknow, the beef or the, you
know, pork people. Uh, they'rereviewing those and they said
that if you're in that range,it really has a minimal risk.
(16:52):
The other thing that peoplemight find really surprising
and interesting to know is thatthe heart and stroke
foundation's position paper onsaturated fat says, well, they
don't even , uh, have a limiton saturated fat. So they say
that it's more important tofocus on total dietary patterns
more so than any singlenutrient, even saturated fat.
Because, you know , here's thetruth. About 45% of the
(17:14):
calories in the Canadian dietare coming from ultra processed
foods, foods that are notnaturally nutrient rich. And so
we're focusing on singlenutrients like this. We kind of
miss that big picture. Yeah.
And that is what I think peoplereally need to focus on. It's
not whether you're eatinganimal source foods or plant
source foods. You know, likeyou said, the outset, you have
your choice and there's lots ofwonderful high quality Canadian
(17:35):
produced foods here. So choosewhat you like, have a balance,
you know, however you want tochoose to meet your nutrient
needs. But I wouldn't say wewant to be thinking about
swapping animal proteins forplant proteins in their whole
natural nutrient state. You'reswitching one healthy food for
another. Like whether youchoose almonds or eggs, in my
mind as a dietitian, go for it.
Like they're both good foods. Iwould rather that instead of
(17:58):
you had a store-bought muffin,you might have that hard cooked
egg.
Clinton Monchuk (18:00):
Yeah.
Carol Harrison (18:00):
Like as a snack. Yeah . Yeah. So I think
that's really important kind ofcontext for this discussion
around saturated fat. I couldyou want me to give you, throw
you a few more stats? Sure .
Because
Clinton Monchuk (18:10):
You're the economic Yeah . I love stats.
.
Carol Harrison (18:12):
. Okay.
Well, the WHO recommends thatwe get about, well, no more
than 10% of our calories fromsaturated fat. Well, so we're a
Canadian sitting, the mostrecent data shows that we're
sitting right at about 10%. Soright
Clinton Monchuk (18:23):
On .
Carol Harrison (18:23):
If you, even if you're thinking that, oh , you
know what, Carol , like, Idon't know, I'm kind of sitting
on the other side of the fence.
Maybe I'm , I'm thinking like,maybe saturated fat's not a
good thing. Well , we're eatingabout the amount that's
recommended. And if you wantedto know where are the main
sources of saturated fat in theCanadian diet, it's actually
44% that are coming from whatwe call kind of other foods
that, foods that wouldn't havebeen part of say the four food
(18:45):
groups. So this is like fastfoods , processed, packaged
foods, ready to eat baked goodsthat are typically not nutrient
rich . So even if you arethinking Yeah, well, you know,
I'm thinking maybe I , I dowant to limit my saturated fat
regardless. I've , I've heardit a bunch of places. I would
say then focus on these foods.
Yeah .
Clinton Monchuk (19:02):
Focus
Carol Harrison (19:03):
On those highly processed foods that are not
giving you anywhere near thatnutrient wonderful nutrition
package that you're gettingfrom meat. Yeah . Like , yeah.
And, you know, meats are notall saturated fat, like beef,
for example, half of more thanhalf, about 55% of the fat and
beef is unsaturated. Peoplejust think it's all , when they
look at it, oh, it's allsaturated. It's not, it's a mix
(19:24):
of fat. So it even gets morecomplicated. Yeah. And one of
the fats that it has is thesame type of fat in olive oil,
oleic acid. A lot of peoplefind that very surprising. So
there's nuances within this,but the premise is the science
that was done to make thisrelationship was very weak .
And more recently we'vediscovered that it's probably,
it's probably not accurate, andwe need to focus on dietary
(19:47):
patterns. Mm-Hmm.. Well, Clinton, I've been
talking a lot about nutritionfor humans, but what about
nutrition for cattle? Like, are, is there a dietitian or a
nutritionist for a cattle? And
Clinton Monchuk (19:58):
I went to the University of Guelph too . So
the , there's numerousdifferent agriculture
universities here in Canada.
Uh, Guelph is one of them.
Saskatchewan has a goodprogram, but it actually puts
out quite a few differentnutritionists for the livestock
industry. So back when we hadthe cattle on our farm, and now
we have poultry on our farm, weconsult all the time with a
(20:19):
nutritionist, a feednutritionist, on making sure
the diets are balanced, makingsure they have the proper, you
know, protein and fiber and allthose different energy
components to make sure they'reliving optimally. We did have
somebody on the podcastpreviously that actually made
the comment that they felttheir chickens actually have a
better diet than we do ashumans because everything is,
(20:41):
is to the tee in terms of whatthey actually need. So yes,
there are dietitians for cattleto make sure that , uh,
balanced , uh, rations exist ,uh, for their requirements
really. So a lot of peopledon't realize that, right. That
there'd be dietitian s forlivestock. This actually gets
(21:05):
us to our fun farm fact , uh,of the segment. Did you know
that two thirds of allagriculture land is not
suitable for crops? In fact, itrequires the grazing of
livestock in order to produceproteins that are consumable
for humans. And this was a factfrom the Food and Agriculture
(21:25):
organization of the UnitedNations, and , uh, something
that I don't know, we allrealize. I think sometimes we
fall into a little bit of atrap that we feel, well, if we
took all the land thatlivestock we're grazing and we
cropped it , um, then we couldhave numerous more plant-based
proteins. But the fact of thematter is a lot of the land
(21:46):
just can't be farmed. And Ijust think of my own farm.
There's some land that we just,it's, it's not good. There's a
lot of trees, there's a lot ofswamp. It's not the greatest of
land for growing crops. So as aresult of that, we graze it
with cattle. We have localranchers that come in, put
cattle on, and that's how weutilize that to get the most
benefit out of the land. And ,and I think that's something
(22:08):
our listeners need to justrecognize that there's, there's
hilly land , there's rocky land, there's all this Mm-Hmm ,
, um, nativeprairie, especially in, in the
, uh, western Canadian plainsthat we do need to utilize in
some manner. Similar to how,you know, the grazing took
place with a bison, you know,hundreds of years ago, that the
(22:29):
cattle do the same thing to tryand make sure we get some
protein out of that land. So weare going to get into now
something that I think a lot ofus have realized when we go
into the grocery store, there'sobviously a higher cost
associated with food. Andespecially when we look at some
of the different choices wemake in the grocery store,
(22:50):
we're seeing the sticker shockand the sticker price , uh,
when we go through the till.
And how can we make the mostout of our budget for consuming
meat? We talked about the needto have some of the good
protein in our diet, but howcan we make the most out of our
limited budgets?
Carol Harrison (23:09):
Right. It's top of mind for all of us. It's in
the news. Uh, the one thingthat I want to preface my tips
with is a comment that foodinsecurity is, it's not a food
skills issue, it's an incomeissue. So even if you know
Clinton, there'll be a lot ofpeople that are not looking for
more tips. They're looking formoney to buy good nourishing
foods for their family. Uh,just this week there was a
(23:30):
report that came out that saidhalf of Canadians are
prioritizing cost overnutrition. That really hurts my
heart as a dietitian to thinkpeople shouldn't have to make
that choice for their children,for their parents , um, people
skipping meals. And so Icertainly don't want to make it
sound like, you know, I'll giveyou my tips. And if all you
folks just you knew had tobetter manage your budget, it
would be okay. 'cause that isnot, that's not the case. So
(23:51):
many people are strugglingright now. But I will, I I do
know that people are interestedin tips and I do know that it
can help give a little bit of aleg up , but it's not going to
make up for not having enoughmoney in the first place. So
the three tips I can focus on,'cause uh , I could go on for
hours on this, is , uh, thenumber one I think is really to
curb food waste. So Clinton,are you , is your family
working on trying to cut foodwaste in your house
Clinton Monchuk (24:11):
To save money?
Yes . Yes. We waste asCanadians, 58% of our food. And
that's disheartening to me.
Mm-Hmm.
Carol Harrison (24:19):
.
Mm-Hmm . , youknow, it adds up to about 1300
on average Wow . Per year for,for maybe a , a , a typical
family in Canada. Mm-Hmm .
. And the foodsthat we're wasting the most,
this is where I , I think itcould be helpful for people
that I would suggest you zeroin on is 45% of the food that
we wasted is vegetables andfruits. So store them. Right.
Look at the Canadian food Focuswebsite. Lots of tips and ideas
(24:40):
on how to store those foodsproperly. Be careful you're not
buying more than what you need.
Even when it's on sale, you'renot going to eat it. The
grocery stores usually aren'tthat far away. You'll be able
to go and get somewhere. Yeah .
And then the second productthat we waste is leftovers. And
I think that's sitting around13 or 17%. So it's quite a ,
you know, quite a dropdown fromthe vegetables and fruits. But
we can be focusing onleftovers. How can we be
(25:01):
repurposing them? How can weput them maybe at the front of
the fridge so that we don'tforget about them? And again, I
know there's some greatarticles in Canadian Food Focus
to help people with that. Doyou have a favorite tip for
curbing food waste?
Clinton Monchuk (25:13):
The big one with me is making sure that you
make a list , um, when you gogrocery shopping, because , um,
the intent anyways is, is totry and draw your attention to
different things. But if youstick to your list, I find you
actually get what you need andyou waste less. So
Carol Harrison (25:28):
That's true.
Clinton Monchuk (25:28):
I always have my wife and I go through the
list before we go groceryshopping. Mm-Hmm .
.
Carol Harrison (25:32):
And
Clinton Monchuk (25:33):
I'm always so proud when I come back and I,
sweetie I put everything in thegrocery cart that was on the
list and nothing more. Yeah .
So
Carol Harrison (25:41):
Awesome.
Clinton Monchuk (25:42):
If I'm with my kids, usually there's some
cookies or some cinnamon bunsthat find their way into the
cart. But,
Carol Harrison (25:48):
You know, it's fine. It's all part of the
healthy balance. Oh yeah . Um ,yeah. I mean I'm sure your cart
is like three quarters wholenaturally nutrient foods and
then there's some room for
Clinton Monchuk (25:57):
Some
Carol Harrison (25:57):
Other the ice cream. Why not my fridge? I've
got ice cream in my freezertoo. .
Clinton Monchuk (26:01):
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Carol Harrison (26:02):
Uh , a tip that I love to share that people
seem to really resonate a lotwith is having , uh, use it up
in , in your fridge, in yourfreezer. So it's just like you
, you can get at the dollarstore. It's just a little
something that, that, you know,last two wilty carrots, that
half of the onion that needs tobe cut up, you know, the last
little bit of, you know, fewlittle bits of cheese that
maybe could go into frittata orsomething like that so that the
family knows, hey, use thissooner rather than later. So
(26:23):
it's like an eat me bin, uh, eat me first bin. Yeah .
Yeah. So the foods don't getlost. Yeah.
Clinton Monchuk (26:29):
So that's
Carol Harrison (26:29):
One tip.
Another tip I think that'sreally important and the
Canadian food focus website isfabulous for helping folks with
this is learn how to cook soyou can be flexible with
ingredients so that you canlearn how to eat what you've
got , uh, with what you've got.
As opposed to say like, eatingout or buying pricey packaged
prepared meals . So greatrecipes on Canadian food focus
. Look for ones that have feweringredients. 'cause that's
(26:50):
going to keep your budget loweras well. So like, you know,
five ingredient frittata orfive ingredient like fried
rice, flexible ingredients sothat you can use what you've
got and learn through cookingwhat swaps work and what swaps
do not work. Right. That'sanother great tip. And then the
last one I'll leave you withis, and you kind of alluded to
this with the cinnamon buns, iswith 45% of our calories coming
(27:12):
from ultra processed foods, andagain, I'm not villainizing
these foods, I said like, youknow, I eat ice cream and, and
I have cookies and ice cream inmy kitchen right now, but
they're not the best buys. Andwe're, we have an over-reliance
on these foods. So if we couldshift some more of that budget
to like barley and cabbage andpotatoes and, you know, roast
when they're on sale then , orsteaks or canned beans, these
(27:35):
are all good nourishing foods,right.
Clinton Monchuk (27:37):
Better
Carol Harrison (27:37):
Choices for our nutrition. Get more bang for
your nutrition dollar. I guess,
Clinton Monchuk (27:42):
How do you extend some of that purchasing
that we're doing to, you know,kind of live within our budget?
Carol Harrison (27:47):
I love that question. You know, most of us
have noticed that meatstypically are one of the more
expensive items in our grocerybill, but they're also one of
the more nutritious items too.
And I'd love for people to keepthat in mind. So what I do for
my family, honestly Clinton,I'm always shopping the
specials. So I'mlooking for the specials I'm
stocking up. Like if there's asir and tip roast on sale for
say, you know, 4 99 or 5 99 apound, I'm buying like three or
(28:10):
four. Thankfully I've gotenough freezer space for that.
I'm also buying marked downmeat, so I will buy. Uh , and
people need to know that thoseare absolutely safe and
nutritious to eat. You want tocook them the same day that
helps to preserve them. Or youcan just pop them in the
freezer. So put them in a , youknow , uh, airtight container,
pop 'em in the freezer and usethem for later. You can save
quite a bit, especially onmeats have been marked down for
(28:31):
50%. The other thing that I'lldo is when they are on sale,
say those roasts or uh ,marinating steaks, I will even
chop them up myself into my ownkind of stewing beef. I do that
work and it ends up saving alittle bit of money as well.
Another thing people maybe needto keep in mind is that because
meat is so naturally nutrientrich, you do not need a big
portion like the palm of yourhand. A deck of cards is going
(28:53):
to give you enough protein tokeep you satisfied until the
next meal. Typically not foreverybody, maybe not for you
Clinton, you're quite a bitbigger than I , but the
point is, it's got a lot ofgood nutrition, so you don't
need to have like half yourplate being steak. Right? Right
. Like a quarter of your plateis just fine. Learn to cook
those various cuts of meat thatare less expensive and use the
(29:15):
Canadian Food Focus website asa resource for that. So how do
you prepare an oven roast? Howdo you, you know, prepare a
marinating steak so it tastesdelicious and you're getting
the most value from it. Andagain, using those cuts like
this , doing beef, the groundbeef, a marinating steaks, the
inside roast a whole chicken soyou can get two meals out of
it. Right. Like I always gettwo meals out of a whole
chicken and of course, blendand extend recipes. That's the
(29:38):
last tip I'll leave you with.
Do you ever , um, add any likemushrooms to your ground beef
or
Clinton Monchuk (29:44):
100% .
Carol Harrison (29:45):
You
Clinton Monchuk (29:45):
Bet . Yeah .
Carol Harrison (29:46):
Yeah . So that's exactly what I'm talking
about. You can stretch it andmake it go a little bit
farther. And I know again, theCanadian food focus has got
recipes, I think meatballs ,um, meatloaf and burgers even.
Yeah .
Clinton Monchuk (29:55):
Where
Carol Harrison (29:55):
You combine ground beef and then other
plant proteins. Just a fewideas there. And remember, meat
is a good nacho nutrient richfood. And so it's an important
part of a healthy diet.
Clinton Monchuk (30:05):
So you wrote an article on Canadian Food
Focus, talking about foodsynergy. So this was a little
bit new to me and , and I readthe article, but could you
explain to all the listenerswhat food synergy Yes . Is?
Carol Harrison (30:18):
Yeah . It's a very exciting concept. I'd love
to talk about it. So some foodsare just better together. So a
great example is when youcombine meat with , uh, plant
proteins. So meat is going toprovide, especially beef, a
rich source of well absorbediron. When you eat that with a
plant source of iron, so thatcould be say some pumpkin seeds
(30:39):
or some dried fruit, or maybeeven some tofu that's got iron
in it, you are going toincrease the iron that you
absorb from the plant-basedfoods by a whopping another
number for you Clinton, 150% .
Holy.
Clinton Monchuk (30:51):
True . Wow.
Carol Harrison (30:51):
It's a lot.
Clinton Monchuk (30:52):
So
Carol Harrison (30:52):
It'll really help to boost that. Um,
non-heme iron, which we getfrom plant foods, which is not
as well absorbed or used by thebody. And so that's a great
example of food synergy.
Another example with the samenutrient would be vitamin C. So
when you add vitamin crichfoods, and that's not just a
citrus fruits Mm-Hmm . Sothere's lots of Canadian grown
sources here. So let's take ofbroccoli in the strawberries in
(31:13):
the summer and cabbage and evenpotatoes. These have got
vitamin C in 'em as well.
Combine those with yourplant-based foods that have got
iron. And again, you're goingto boost the iron that comes
from that entire meal. So somefoods Yeah. Are better
together. It comes back to mymain point of how ideally what
we want to do is have a mix ofplant and animal-based foods on
our plate. And some peoplemight say, well, that's just so
(31:34):
basic, this healthy plate, halfyour plate vegetables and
fruits a quarter, you know,grains, preferably whole grains
in tactile grains, and then aquarter protein. But when you
consider we're getting 45% ofour calories from ultra
processed foods, it shows us weneed to get back to these
basics. Yeah . It doesn't needto be over complicated. Yeah.
Clinton Monchuk (31:51):
Yeah. I like that. And, and I like the idea
that we don't have to makethings over complicated when it
comes to our food. Just somesimple kind of guidelines that
we can follow and , and live hehealthy lifestyles and, and
we're going to be more healthyas individuals. Right. So
Carol Harrison (32:06):
Mm-Hmm.
and all our mealsdon't have to be epic fancy
meals. Like the other day Ijust took canned salmon, little
mayonnaise in it, had a , abaguette that I had bought
marked down at the grocerystore. So that's another way to
save, is to not be afraid tobuy markdown foods. So markdown
, baguette toasted it up, and ahandful of great tomatoes,
gloss of milk, and I called itlunch. So very simple. Doesn't
(32:29):
need to be . Yeah. And , and Ienjoyed it. Yeah.
Clinton Monchuk (32:31):
I know. My wife does it lots and and she
really enjoys it. Mm-Hmm .
. So thank youvery much for taking your time
to be a part of the programtoday. It was really great to
just get more informationaround meat, protein and, and
try to understand the dietaryneeds of us in our different
stages too. So thank you verymuch, Carol, for being a part
of the program. I want to thankyou for taking the time to
(32:59):
listen to our Ask a Farmerpodcast. We at Canadian Food
Focus value the input from ourlisteners and ask that you
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(33:20):
To do this, please click on theAsk us icon at the top of our
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feel free to follow ournumerous social media links and
sign up for our newsletter.
This segment was produced andedited by Angela Larsson,
research and Writing by DorothyLong and Penny Eden . Music by
(33:40):
Andy Elson . I'm your hostClinton Moncha . And from all
of us here at Canadian FoodFocus, we wish you good health
and great Eats.
From Canadian Food Focus. This is Ask a
Farmer. I'm your host ClintonMonchuk. A Saskatchewan farmer.
In this podcast, we talk tofood experts to answer your
questions about your food . Hieveryone, and welcome to the
(00:28):
podcast. Today we're going tobe talking a little bit about a
balanced diet and how we canuse some animal proteins in
that. So, right off the bat, Iwant to say we are so lucky
here in this country to have somany different choices of food.
And when you go into a grocerystore, there's tons of
different plant-based proteins,animal-based proteins, you name
(00:48):
it, we have it. We are verylucky to have all the numerous
different choices that we dohere in this country. What
we're going to be talking abouttoday is more on the animal
protein side and trying tounderstand that a little bit
more. So I want to disclosethat I have some bias in the
game here. So I was raised on acattle farm and a dairy farm,
(01:10):
and still married into aranching family down in
Oklahoma where we're stillactive down there. So I want to
take some of the bias out ofthis. And what we're doing with
that is talking to CarolHarrison . What we want to talk
about is , like I said, the balanced t ype. But before we
get into that, I want all ourlisteners to understand a
(01:30):
little bit more about yourbackground. You are the expert
in this field. . A nd I think alot of the listeners can gain
from some of your knowledge. Soyou want to just explain a
little bit of your backgroundand then we can get into some
of the nuts and bolts.
Carol Harrison (01:43):
Well, thanks Clinton. Yes. I'm a registered
dietitian. I live and work inToronto. I have three kids and
one fur baby. I'm a registereddietitian. Proud to be a
registered dietitian. Iactually studied at the
University of Guelph and thereare lots of agriculture
students there. So it was agreat combination of food,
agriculture, and nutrition. Ijust loved that. And my focus
really as a dietitian is toshow people how to eat
(02:04):
nourishing foods, but keep ittasty and uncomplicated. It
doesn't need to be too muchwork , o r overcomplicated for
sure. We all want to live welland eat well, and just keep it
simple. Right. Now, youmentioned that you w ere being
transparent growing up a t adairy farm and yo ur f amily
has cattle. And I just want tomention as well, as a
dietitian, I always wear mydietitian hat first. An d s o
(02:25):
even though I have alsoconsulted for the animal
agriculture groups, I onlyshare information that is
evidence-based and things thatI know is going to add value
and that I really believe, youknow, is, um, g ood information
and food that I would recommendfor my own family.
Clinton Monchuk (02:41):
One of the things that you actually talk
about is, you know, if youcould roughly split up your
plate when you're eating, halfof it should be veggies. A
quarter of it should be wholegrains. And then the other
quarter is supposed to beproteins. So what we want to do
with this segment is kind ofdrill down into some of these
(03:01):
proteins and understand how wecan better balance our, I like
to say ration on the, thelivestock side, but we're not
rationed, balance our diet. forthe proteins. So first of all,
are all proteins created equalor is there differences between
that we sometimes don't reallytalk about?
Carol Harrison (03:21):
Well, you know , not all proteins are created
equal Clinton. And there's afew things that are important
to keep in mind in relation tothat. So number one is the
nutrition profile can be verydifferent. Uh, we've got, like
you said, so many wonderfulfoods that we could eat here in
Canada that do contain protein.
Thankfully, lots of them thatare produced on Canadian, you
know, farms, coast to coast aswell. And the nutrition
(03:42):
profile, of course can vary. Sofatty fish, you know , are
going to be offering us omegathree fats great for brain
health and heart health andbeans are going to be offering
us fiber important for our, ourgut health and to keep our
blood sugars in check red meat,like beef, for example, rich in
iron, which makes the feel-goodhormone serotonin. So the
package of nutrients that comeswith the protein can be very
(04:03):
different because we get ,proteins from animal sources
and plant sources. So thenutrients can be different. The
other thing that we need tokeep in mind that can be
different is the amount ofprotein. And so meat is a very
concentrated source of protein.
And what that practically meansis to get the same amount of
protein from meat, youtypically would have to eat
maybe several portions ofplant-based proteins. And then
(04:25):
the third thing that makes themdifferent is, and animal
proteins that people haveprobably heard this before
called complete proteins. Andplant proteins are incomplete
except for things like tofu andedamame . Um, like the soy
based foods, quinoa as wellactually. Um, so incomplete
meaning they don't contain allthe essential amino acids that
our body needs. And those arebuilding blocks to build
(04:47):
proteins that are owned bodies.
So they don't contain all thoseessential amino acids. But when
you combine proteins and eat avariety of proteins, and maybe
you're mixing in someanimal-based foods as well,
it's really not an issue. Butyes, not all protein foods are
created equal. Those are threethings to keep in mind.
Clinton Monchuk (05:02):
I'm trying to understand. So how can we
ensure we get enough of thisprotein? Because the more I
look at , um, whether it'saging or different stages in
your life, Mm-Hmm
Carol Harrison (05:13):
Mm-Hmm ,
Clinton Monchuk (05:13):
It requires differing amounts of protein
and , and if you're working outor exercising, again, that that
requires different , uh, levelsof protein. But how do we
ensure that we in our stages oflife are actually getting
enough protein for our dietsto, to fulfill, like you said,
the body's needs?
Carol Harrison (05:29):
Yeah. Well if you don't mind, Clint , can I
just back up really quickly andjust try to bust a myth that we
don't actually get too muchprotein? 'cause a lot of
people, they kind of dismissthat and they think, well, we
get too much protein anyway.
Like, why do I need to worryabout even getting enough? And
so , uh, according to the bestdata that we have available in
Canada, Canadians are gettingabout, I'm going to get a
little technical here,
(05:51):
calories from protein. I'm notsuggesting anyone needs to do
the math. Never figure that outbecause you miss a dietitian. I
have never once done that.
Clinton Monchuk (05:58):
So I'm an economist. I'd love to take the
numbers, but I, I thinkmajority of the other people
probably are just okay . 70%
Carol Harrison (06:05):
So 17. But let me give you, so to context
though, the range is from 10 to35. Okay.
Clinton Monchuk (06:11):
Is
Carol Harrison (06:11):
The recommendation. So we're
sitting on the lower end ofthat range. So it's not true
that we're over consumingprotein. So that's the number
one thing. And then, so how dowe get enough? Well, you
mentioned that for sure. Needscan vary. You've got a son who
plays AAA baseball, growing,you know, athlete. His needs
might be different than, youknow, one of his peers in his
class. A pregnant women's needsare going to be different. You
(06:31):
know, my parents when they werein their eighties, like their
needs were different as well.
So you can find a registereddietitian, they'll help with
individual needs, but you know,it's a good ballpark for most
of us. Basically kind ofhealthy, optimal living, we're
looking to make, like you said,the outset one quarter of our
plate protein. And so thatcould be a mix of plant and
animal-based proteins. And agood ballpark if people really
(06:54):
want numbers is maybe, again,for adults about 25 to 30 grams
of protein per day. But ifyou're shooting for that
quarter plate, that's reallygoing to be fine. One tip I
want to add in there is thatbreakfast is usually the meal
that's most shortchange forprotein. So if people are
trying to think, well, whereshould I put my focus? I would
say focus in on breakfast.
'cause typically that's wherewe're not getting enough
(07:15):
protein. And again, justunderlining trying to get a
variety of plant andanimal-based proteins and not
to forget our snacks. So try tobuild in some protein with
those snacks, because that'sgoing to help us to feel full a
little bit longer and make itto that next meal. So
Clinton Monchuk (07:28):
You mentioned one thing about maybe not
getting enough protein rightoff the, the hop in the morning
, uh, when we're starting ourday out. Mm-Hmm.
, does that have some effectson our body then throughout the
day? So for example, if I have, um, say something that does
not have protein for mybreakfast meal, does it have an
(07:48):
effect of, of possibly evenslowing me down during the day?
Is is that,
Carol Harrison (07:53):
Well, it's really important. Our bodies
don't store proteins. So ourbody will take the protein from
food and they'll break it downinto these individual amino
acids, and then they recombinethose into new proteins in our
body and it doesn't reallystore them. So it's waiting for
that protein. So we do need itthroughout the day. So it's
waiting for us to provide thoseamino acids so it can build
(08:13):
Clinton. There's over a hundredthousand proteins our bodies
build . Like, isn't thatamazing? Every single cell in
our body, it's a major part ofevery single cell in our body.
So it can also slow you down.
Yes. Because as I mentionedwith the snacks, it helps us to
feel fuller longer. So if youhad a tea and toast kind of
breakfast, then that's notreally going to set you up for
feeling satisfied and energizedand keep you going, giving you
(08:35):
that lasting energy to go tilllunchtime. And so what that
might mean is that mid-morningyou're hungry. And what do we
reach for mid-morning often?
Maybe it's going to be anothergrain product, so it might not
be like something that's gotprotein in it. And again, our
body is waiting for those aminoacids throughout the day , uh,
to kind of top us up so that itcan do what it needs to do
behind the scenes keeping us,you know, our brains and bodies
(08:57):
working smoothly, functioningwell.
Clinton Monchuk (09:00):
If we know we gotta add some of these
proteins into our , our dietand , and like you said, try
and make a balance throughoutthe day so our body can, can
keep that, that rhythm going.
What other nutrients do some ofthese animal-based proteins
provide for us that, you know,help us get what our body
needs?
Carol Harrison (09:19):
Right. So of course meat, I like to always
mention it's a singleingredient food , so there's
nothing added, there's nothingtaken away. And it does provide
protein, which people oftenthink of, but they don't always
think of the package, like yousaid, that bundle of nutrients
that comes with the proteinwith vitamins and the minerals.
And not only is there a widearray of vitamins and minerals,
(09:40):
so for example, beef has 13essential nutrients in addition
to protein that it offers, butit's also in a form that's
highly bioavailable littletechnical term there, which
basically just means the bodycan use it and absorb it really
well. And so usually meats aswell provide this great package
of nutrients vital for goodhealth for a modest number of
(10:01):
calories as well. So that's theother thing to keep in mind as
well. And it's really relevantright now to eat nutrient rich
foods because recent data hasshown that a lot of Canadians
are falling short in keynutrients, many of which are
actually provided by meat. Soiron, zinc, vitamin B 12,
you'll get those from meats.
And B 12 you'll only get frommeats. Um, actually, and the
(10:22):
form again is reallybioavailable. It's well used by
the body. So adding some, youknow, maybe a little more meat
to your diet can help Canadiansmake up for some of those
nutrient shortfalls.
Clinton Monchuk (10:31):
Like I mentioned before, there's a ton
of different articles that ourlisteners can go to on canadian
food focus.org .
Carol Harrison (10:37):
Yes.
Clinton Monchuk (10:38):
But a few of them are talking about how as
we age, some of the musclemaybe break down a little bit
more. Yes. So maybe explain andand there's a specific name to
that process. Sure . And Itried to pronounce it before
and , and I'm not going topronounce it now because I know
I'm going to mess it up, butwhat, what can the meat protein
(10:59):
do in an effort to help withthat process?
Carol Harrison (11:02):
Right. Okay. So as we age, whether we like it
or not, we start to lose musclemass sort of from our forties
onward. And the term is calledsarcopenia.
Clinton Monchuk (11:10):
There you go.
That was
Carol Harrison (11:11):
The name
of like, think of likeosteoporosis for your bones,
but for your muscles. So manypeople are familiar with
osteoporosis that it's aweakening of the bones as we
get , um, older, but they'renot so familiar with
sarcopenia. Now we can't stopit Clinton, but we can slow it
down
protein rich diet, but alsoexercise is important. So you
(11:32):
can't, you can't have onewithout the other, you know,
you've gotta work that muscle.
And it's really important asfor healthy, active aging,
again from 40 onwards. So we'renot talking elderly, I'm not
talking like 70 year olds here,like from our forties onward,
we want to make sure that we'reoptimizing getting enough good
quality protein and workingthat muscle as well. Because
when you don't have enoughmuscle mass, you're more likely
(11:53):
to have falls. And we probablyall know someone in our family,
an an , an aunt or maybe a , aparent who the fall was the
first start of their demise.
Right. And it can really impactyour quality of life. We all
want to live as long aspossible independently. So
like, okay. Like, honestly likesimple things like getting up
and off the toilet and beingable to like, you know, do your
(12:14):
groceries and those kind ofthings so that you don't have
to have someone else help you.
Clinton Monchuk (12:17):
Yeah.
Carol Harrison (12:17):
here, like really importantlifestyle considerations.
Clinton Monchuk (12:22):
And that already starts in your forties.
So it already starts with thatprocess to limit some of those
, those abilities . So, and youmentioned two things. One is
making sure that you have thatright protein and, and , uh,
the meat sources give you thatbalanced , uh, you know, with
all the nutrients and, and someof those amino acids and stuff,
but also making sure thatyou're active Mm-Hmm .
(12:44):
sure that you have a goodlifestyle well into your aged
years. I , I think is a , it'sgreat advice, right?
Carol Harrison (12:54):
Yeah. And weight bearing exercise. So
it's not enough to walk, yougotta be lifting the weights,
lifting the
Clinton Monchuk (12:59):
Weight, pumping the iron,
Carol Harrison (13:00):
In some , in some, yeah. In some shape or
form, you know, like it doesn'thave to be going to a gym. It
can be your body weight, butYeah. Uh , most Canadians are
not meeting the physicalactivity guidelines, so they
can always look those up onlineas well to see how they're
doing there. But both areimportant. And you had
mentioned meat's important, andI just want to emphasize again,
you know, we get protein fromplant-based foods too. And
really it's the mix of boththat is ideal for our diet
(13:23):
because the plant-based foodshave some things like say
fibrin folate that animal foodsdon't have. Animal foods would
have, you know, B 12 and reallybioavailable source of
nutrients that are limited in,in plants, but it's together
they work better together.
Clinton Monchuk (13:39):
Yeah. Which, which gets back to the whole
idea of a , a balanced dietwith the different foods. And
you mentioned, you know, weneed to be more active. I was
at a conference with you at theRoyal Winter Fair, I think, and
and I believe you were the, themoderator. Oh my . And you got
me off my seat and we had todo, I don't know if it was at
some dance or some wiggle orwhatever it was
Carol Harrison (13:57):
A salsa. Salsa .
Clinton Monchuk (13:58):
That's what it was . Salsa
Carol Harrison (13:59):
Salsa, yeah.
Yeah.
Clinton Monchuk (14:01):
But, but it was, it was great. I did it in
my cowboy boots and it, it
made me energized for the restof the meeting. So
Carol Harrison (14:08):
Yeah. And every people laugh . Oh yeah . 'cause
we were being a little bitsilly doing the salsa and
everyone's a little bit awkwardand , and they totally were not
expecting that. They probablythought I was going to say,
let's roll our head on one sideor the other and
Clinton Monchuk (14:19):
Carol Harrison (14:20):
Fun fact. I used to be a fitness instructor
Clinton Monchuk (14:22):
Years ago, so .
Carol Harrison (14:24):
Yeah. Yeah.
Clinton Monchuk (14:26):
So I've, I've heard of people talking about
cutting back on saturated fat.
So this is something thatMm-Hmm .
seems like it comes in, comesout in , in the media and
different studies that come in.
How does that factor into ourdecision of consuming red meat?
Carol Harrison (14:41):
Right. Well, I'm really glad you bring that
up, Clinton, because as adietitian, I do worry that
people might fear eating meatwhen they hear these messages.
And of course, we've talkedabout it being a nutrient rich
source of nutrients, manynutrients of which Canadians
are not getting enough of. And,you know, maybe we should have
started this podcast talkingabout how, you know, the human
species of the eating meat forlike over a million years. You
(15:04):
know, I'll tell you that I, oneof the reasons why I love to
eat meat is simply the tastesgrilled steak with some chimi
cherry sauce on it. I'm inheaven. It nourishes my soul
and my body. Yeah . So Ireally, I do worry about people
limiting it, like for thenourishment, but also the taste
and enjoyment and pleasure thatit brings, because that's an
important part of healthyeating as well. So back to the
(15:24):
saturated fat, well, that ideathat saturated fat causes heart
disease was introduced in the1950s. Just a little backstory
on this, but it was alwaysbased on really weak evidence.
And they've gone back over thatevidence. And in the last
decade, they've also done morestudies, bigger studies, larger
quality studies, globalstudies, over 20 review papers
that have basically concludedpretty much that saturated fats
(15:47):
have no effect oncardiovascular disease or total
mortality. Now, Clinton, justto give you a perspective on
some of these studies, like theepic study was a half a million
people followed for 12 years.
So we're talking some reallysignificant papers that were,
again, very rigorous. And Iwould say my perspective is
that the policymakers, youknow, really do have to catch
(16:07):
up on the science. The FAO,that's the Food and agriculture
organization with UnitedNations just recently came out
with a paper and they reviewed500 scientific papers. And what
they wanted to do wassynthesize the risks, like the
analysis, kind of the pros andcons of consuming modest
amounts of unprocessed meat. Sothat means like your steaks and
your roast, like, like, andlike I said, nothing added,
nothing taken away. And theysaid that if you were in the
(16:30):
range between nine and 71 gramsper day, there's a minimal
health risk. Okay. So then thequestion becomes, well, how
much are Canadians eating?
Well, we're kind of like smackin the middle of that ish.
We're around 41 grams per day.
So they reviewed 500 papers,they're independent. This isn't
something coming from the, youknow, the beef or the, you
know, pork people. Uh, they'rereviewing those and they said
that if you're in that range,it really has a minimal risk.
(16:52):
The other thing that peoplemight find really surprising
and interesting to know is thatthe heart and stroke
foundation's position paper onsaturated fat says, well, they
don't even , uh, have a limiton saturated fat. So they say
that it's more important tofocus on total dietary patterns
more so than any singlenutrient, even saturated fat.
Because, you know , here's thetruth. About 45% of the
(17:14):
calories in the Canadian dietare coming from ultra processed
foods, foods that are notnaturally nutrient rich. And so
we're focusing on singlenutrients like this. We kind of
miss that big picture. Yeah.
And that is what I think peoplereally need to focus on. It's
not whether you're eatinganimal source foods or plant
source foods. You know, likeyou said, the outset, you have
your choice and there's lots ofwonderful high quality Canadian
(17:35):
produced foods here. So choosewhat you like, have a balance,
you know, however you want tochoose to meet your nutrient
needs. But I wouldn't say wewant to be thinking about
swapping animal proteins forplant proteins in their whole
natural nutrient state. You'reswitching one healthy food for
another. Like whether youchoose almonds or eggs, in my
mind as a dietitian, go for it.
Like they're both good foods. Iwould rather that instead of
(17:58):
you had a store-bought muffin,you might have that hard cooked
egg.
Clinton Monchuk (18:00):
Yeah.
Carol Harrison (18:00):
Like as a snack. Yeah . Yeah. So I think
that's really important kind ofcontext for this discussion
around saturated fat. I couldyou want me to give you, throw
you a few more stats? Sure .
Because
Clinton Monchuk (18:10):
You're the economic Yeah . I love stats.
Carol Harrison (18:12):
Well, the WHO recommends thatwe get about, well, no more
than 10% of our calories fromsaturated fat. Well, so we're a
Canadian sitting, the mostrecent data shows that we're
sitting right at about 10%. Soright
Clinton Monchuk (18:23):
On .
Carol Harrison (18:23):
If you, even if you're thinking that, oh , you
know what, Carol , like, Idon't know, I'm kind of sitting
on the other side of the fence.
Maybe I'm , I'm thinking like,maybe saturated fat's not a
good thing. Well , we're eatingabout the amount that's
recommended. And if you wantedto know where are the main
sources of saturated fat in theCanadian diet, it's actually
44% that are coming from whatwe call kind of other foods
that, foods that wouldn't havebeen part of say the four food
(18:45):
groups. So this is like fastfoods , processed, packaged
foods, ready to eat baked goodsthat are typically not nutrient
rich . So even if you arethinking Yeah, well, you know,
I'm thinking maybe I , I dowant to limit my saturated fat
regardless. I've , I've heardit a bunch of places. I would
say then focus on these foods.
Yeah .
Clinton Monchuk (19:02):
Focus
Carol Harrison (19:03):
On those highly processed foods that are not
giving you anywhere near thatnutrient wonderful nutrition
package that you're gettingfrom meat. Yeah . Like , yeah.
And, you know, meats are notall saturated fat, like beef,
for example, half of more thanhalf, about 55% of the fat and
beef is unsaturated. Peoplejust think it's all , when they
look at it, oh, it's allsaturated. It's not, it's a mix
(19:24):
of fat. So it even gets morecomplicated. Yeah. And one of
the fats that it has is thesame type of fat in olive oil,
oleic acid. A lot of peoplefind that very surprising. So
there's nuances within this,but the premise is the science
that was done to make thisrelationship was very weak .
And more recently we'vediscovered that it's probably,
it's probably not accurate, andwe need to focus on dietary
(19:47):
patterns. Mm-Hmm.
talking a lot about nutritionfor humans, but what about
nutrition for cattle? Like, are, is there a dietitian or a
nutritionist for a cattle? And
Clinton Monchuk (19:58):
I went to the University of Guelph too . So
the , there's numerousdifferent agriculture
universities here in Canada.
Uh, Guelph is one of them.
Saskatchewan has a goodprogram, but it actually puts
out quite a few differentnutritionists for the livestock
industry. So back when we hadthe cattle on our farm, and now
we have poultry on our farm, weconsult all the time with a
(20:19):
nutritionist, a feednutritionist, on making sure
the diets are balanced, makingsure they have the proper, you
know, protein and fiber and allthose different energy
components to make sure they'reliving optimally. We did have
somebody on the podcastpreviously that actually made
the comment that they felttheir chickens actually have a
better diet than we do ashumans because everything is,
(20:41):
is to the tee in terms of whatthey actually need. So yes,
there are dietitians for cattleto make sure that , uh,
balanced , uh, rations exist ,uh, for their requirements
really. So a lot of peopledon't realize that, right. That
there'd be dietitian s forlivestock. This actually gets
(21:05):
us to our fun farm fact , uh,of the segment. Did you know
that two thirds of allagriculture land is not
suitable for crops? In fact, itrequires the grazing of
livestock in order to produceproteins that are consumable
for humans. And this was a factfrom the Food and Agriculture
(21:25):
organization of the UnitedNations, and , uh, something
that I don't know, we allrealize. I think sometimes we
fall into a little bit of atrap that we feel, well, if we
took all the land thatlivestock we're grazing and we
cropped it , um, then we couldhave numerous more plant-based
proteins. But the fact of thematter is a lot of the land
(21:46):
just can't be farmed. And Ijust think of my own farm.
There's some land that we just,it's, it's not good. There's a
lot of trees, there's a lot ofswamp. It's not the greatest of
land for growing crops. So as aresult of that, we graze it
with cattle. We have localranchers that come in, put
cattle on, and that's how weutilize that to get the most
benefit out of the land. And ,and I think that's something
(22:08):
our listeners need to justrecognize that there's, there's
hilly land , there's rocky land, there's all this Mm-Hmm ,
, uh, western Canadian plainsthat we do need to utilize in
some manner. Similar to how,you know, the grazing took
place with a bison, you know,hundreds of years ago, that the
(22:29):
cattle do the same thing to tryand make sure we get some
protein out of that land. So weare going to get into now
something that I think a lot ofus have realized when we go
into the grocery store, there'sobviously a higher cost
associated with food. Andespecially when we look at some
of the different choices wemake in the grocery store,
(22:50):
we're seeing the sticker shockand the sticker price , uh,
when we go through the till.
And how can we make the mostout of our budget for consuming
meat? We talked about the needto have some of the good
protein in our diet, but howcan we make the most out of our
limited budgets?
Carol Harrison (23:09):
Right. It's top of mind for all of us. It's in
the news. Uh, the one thingthat I want to preface my tips
with is a comment that foodinsecurity is, it's not a food
skills issue, it's an incomeissue. So even if you know
Clinton, there'll be a lot ofpeople that are not looking for
more tips. They're looking formoney to buy good nourishing
foods for their family. Uh,just this week there was a
(23:30):
report that came out that saidhalf of Canadians are
prioritizing cost overnutrition. That really hurts my
heart as a dietitian to thinkpeople shouldn't have to make
that choice for their children,for their parents , um, people
skipping meals. And so Icertainly don't want to make it
sound like, you know, I'll giveyou my tips. And if all you
folks just you knew had tobetter manage your budget, it
would be okay. 'cause that isnot, that's not the case. So
(23:51):
many people are strugglingright now. But I will, I I do
know that people are interestedin tips and I do know that it
can help give a little bit of aleg up , but it's not going to
make up for not having enoughmoney in the first place. So
the three tips I can focus on,'cause uh , I could go on for
hours on this, is , uh, thenumber one I think is really to
curb food waste. So Clinton,are you , is your family
working on trying to cut foodwaste in your house
Clinton Monchuk (24:11):
To save money?
Yes . Yes. We waste asCanadians, 58% of our food. And
that's disheartening to me.
Mm-Hmm.
Carol Harrison (24:19):
Mm-Hmm .
on average Wow . Per year for,for maybe a , a , a typical
family in Canada. Mm-Hmm .
this is where I , I think itcould be helpful for people
that I would suggest you zeroin on is 45% of the food that
we wasted is vegetables andfruits. So store them. Right.
Look at the Canadian food Focuswebsite. Lots of tips and ideas
(24:40):
on how to store those foodsproperly. Be careful you're not
buying more than what you need.
Even when it's on sale, you'renot going to eat it. The
grocery stores usually aren'tthat far away. You'll be able
to go and get somewhere. Yeah .
And then the second productthat we waste is leftovers. And
I think that's sitting around13 or 17%. So it's quite a ,
you know, quite a dropdown fromthe vegetables and fruits. But
we can be focusing onleftovers. How can we be
(25:01):
repurposing them? How can weput them maybe at the front of
the fridge so that we don'tforget about them? And again, I
know there's some greatarticles in Canadian Food Focus
to help people with that. Doyou have a favorite tip for
curbing food waste?
Clinton Monchuk (25:13):
The big one with me is making sure that you
make a list , um, when you gogrocery shopping, because , um,
the intent anyways is, is totry and draw your attention to
different things. But if youstick to your list, I find you
actually get what you need andyou waste less. So
Carol Harrison (25:28):
That's true.
Clinton Monchuk (25:28):
I always have my wife and I go through the
list before we go groceryshopping. Mm-Hmm .
Carol Harrison (25:32):
And
Clinton Monchuk (25:33):
I'm always so proud when I come back and I,
sweetie I put everything in thegrocery cart that was on the
list and nothing more. Yeah .
So
Carol Harrison (25:41):
Awesome.
Clinton Monchuk (25:42):
If I'm with my kids, usually there's some
cookies or some cinnamon bunsthat find their way into the
cart. But
Carol Harrison (25:48):
You know, it's fine. It's all part of the
healthy balance. Oh yeah . Um ,yeah. I mean I'm sure your cart
is like three quarters wholenaturally nutrient foods and
then there's some room for
Clinton Monchuk (25:57):
Some
Carol Harrison (25:57):
Other the ice cream. Why not my fridge? I've
got ice cream in my freezertoo.
Clinton Monchuk (26:01):
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Carol Harrison (26:02):
Uh , a tip that I love to share that people
seem to really resonate a lotwith is having , uh, use it up
in , in your fridge, in yourfreezer. So it's just like you
, you can get at the dollarstore. It's just a little
something that, that, you know,last two wilty carrots, that
half of the onion that needs tobe cut up, you know, the last
little bit of, you know, fewlittle bits of cheese that
maybe could go into frittata orsomething like that so that the
family knows, hey, use thissooner rather than later. So
(26:23):
it's like an eat me bin
Yeah. So the foods don't getlost. Yeah.
Clinton Monchuk (26:29):
So that's
Carol Harrison (26:29):
One tip.
Another tip I think that'sreally important and the
Canadian food focus website isfabulous for helping folks with
this is learn how to cook soyou can be flexible with
ingredients so that you canlearn how to eat what you've
got , uh, with what you've got.
As opposed to say like, eatingout or buying pricey packaged
prepared meals . So greatrecipes on Canadian food focus
. Look for ones that have feweringredients. 'cause that's
(26:50):
going to keep your budget loweras well. So like, you know,
five ingredient frittata orfive ingredient like fried
rice, flexible ingredients sothat you can use what you've
got and learn through cookingwhat swaps work and what swaps
do not work. Right. That'sanother great tip. And then the
last one I'll leave you withis, and you kind of alluded to
this with the cinnamon buns, iswith 45% of our calories coming
(27:12):
from ultra processed foods, andagain, I'm not villainizing
these foods, I said like, youknow, I eat ice cream and, and
I have cookies and ice cream inmy kitchen right now, but
they're not the best buys. Andwe're, we have an over-reliance
on these foods. So if we couldshift some more of that budget
to like barley and cabbage andpotatoes and, you know, roast
when they're on sale then , orsteaks or canned beans, these
(27:35):
are all good nourishing foods,right.
Clinton Monchuk (27:37):
Better
Carol Harrison (27:37):
Choices for our nutrition. Get more bang for
your nutrition dollar. I guess,
Clinton Monchuk (27:42):
How do you extend some of that purchasing
that we're doing to, you know,kind of live within our budget?
Carol Harrison (27:47):
I love that question. You know, most of us
have noticed that meatstypically are one of the more
expensive items in our grocerybill, but they're also one of
the more nutritious items too.
And I'd love for people to keepthat in mind. So what I do for
my family, honestly Clinton,I'm always shopping the
specials
stocking up. Like if there's asir and tip roast on sale for
say, you know, 4 99 or 5 99 apound, I'm buying like three or
(28:10):
four. Thankfully I've gotenough freezer space for that.
I'm also buying marked downmeat, so I will buy. Uh , and
people need to know that thoseare absolutely safe and
nutritious to eat. You want tocook them the same day that
helps to preserve them. Or youcan just pop them in the
freezer. So put them in a , youknow , uh, airtight container,
pop 'em in the freezer and usethem for later. You can save
quite a bit, especially onmeats have been marked down for
(28:31):
50%. The other thing that I'lldo is when they are on sale,
say those roasts or uh ,marinating steaks, I will even
chop them up myself into my ownkind of stewing beef. I do that
work and it ends up saving alittle bit of money as well.
Another thing people maybe needto keep in mind is that because
meat is so naturally nutrientrich, you do not need a big
portion like the palm of yourhand. A deck of cards is going
(28:53):
to give you enough protein tokeep you satisfied until the
next meal. Typically not foreverybody, maybe not for you
Clinton, you're quite a bitbigger than I
point is, it's got a lot ofgood nutrition, so you don't
need to have like half yourplate being steak. Right? Right
. Like a quarter of your plateis just fine. Learn to cook
those various cuts of meat thatare less expensive and use the
(29:15):
Canadian Food Focus website asa resource for that. So how do
you prepare an oven roast? Howdo you, you know, prepare a
marinating steak so it tastesdelicious and you're getting
the most value from it. Andagain, using those cuts like
this , doing beef, the groundbeef, a marinating steaks, the
inside roast a whole chicken soyou can get two meals out of
it. Right. Like I always gettwo meals out of a whole
chicken and of course, blendand extend recipes. That's the
(29:38):
last tip I'll leave you with.
Do you ever , um, add any likemushrooms to your ground beef
or
Clinton Monchuk (29:44):
100% .
Carol Harrison (29:45):
You
Clinton Monchuk (29:45):
Bet . Yeah .
Carol Harrison (29:46):
Yeah . So that's exactly what I'm talking
about. You can stretch it andmake it go a little bit
farther. And I know again, theCanadian food focus has got
recipes, I think meatballs ,um, meatloaf and burgers even.
Yeah .
Clinton Monchuk (29:55):
Where
Carol Harrison (29:55):
You combine ground beef and then other
plant proteins. Just a fewideas there. And remember, meat
is a good nacho nutrient richfood. And so it's an important
part of a healthy diet.
Clinton Monchuk (30:05):
So you wrote an article on Canadian Food
Focus, talking about foodsynergy. So this was a little
bit new to me and , and I readthe article, but could you
explain to all the listenerswhat food synergy Yes . Is?
Carol Harrison (30:18):
Yeah . It's a very exciting concept. I'd love
to talk about it. So some foodsare just better together. So a
great example is when youcombine meat with , uh, plant
proteins. So meat is going toprovide, especially beef, a
rich source of well absorbediron. When you eat that with a
plant source of iron, so thatcould be say some pumpkin seeds
(30:39):
or some dried fruit, or maybeeven some tofu that's got iron
in it, you are going toincrease the iron that you
absorb from the plant-basedfoods by a whopping another
number for you Clinton, 150% .
Holy.
Clinton Monchuk (30:51):
True . Wow.
Carol Harrison (30:51):
It's a lot.
Clinton Monchuk (30:52):
So
Carol Harrison (30:52):
It'll really help to boost that. Um,
non-heme iron, which we getfrom plant foods, which is not
as well absorbed or used by thebody. And so that's a great
example of food synergy.
Another example with the samenutrient would be vitamin C. So
when you add vitamin crichfoods, and that's not just a
citrus fruits Mm-Hmm . Sothere's lots of Canadian grown
sources here. So let's take ofbroccoli in the strawberries in
(31:13):
the summer and cabbage and evenpotatoes. These have got
vitamin C in 'em as well.
Combine those with yourplant-based foods that have got
iron. And again, you're goingto boost the iron that comes
from that entire meal. So somefoods Yeah. Are better
together. It comes back to mymain point of how ideally what
we want to do is have a mix ofplant and animal-based foods on
our plate. And some peoplemight say, well, that's just so
(31:34):
basic, this healthy plate, halfyour plate vegetables and
fruits a quarter, you know,grains, preferably whole grains
in tactile grains, and then aquarter protein. But when you
consider we're getting 45% ofour calories from ultra
processed foods, it shows us weneed to get back to these
basics. Yeah . It doesn't needto be over complicated. Yeah.
Clinton Monchuk (31:51):
Yeah. I like that. And, and I like the idea
that we don't have to makethings over complicated when it
comes to our food. Just somesimple kind of guidelines that
we can follow and , and live hehealthy lifestyles and, and
we're going to be more healthyas individuals. Right. So
Carol Harrison (32:06):
Mm-Hmm.
meals. Like the other day Ijust took canned salmon, little
mayonnaise in it, had a , abaguette that I had bought
marked down at the grocerystore. So that's another way to
save, is to not be afraid tobuy markdown foods. So markdown
, baguette toasted it up, and ahandful of great tomatoes,
gloss of milk, and I called itlunch. So very simple. Doesn't
(32:29):
need to be . Yeah. And , and Ienjoyed it. Yeah.
Clinton Monchuk (32:31):
I know. My wife does it lots and and she
really enjoys it. Mm-Hmm .
to be a part of the programtoday. It was really great to
just get more informationaround meat, protein and, and
try to understand the dietaryneeds of us in our different
stages too. So thank you verymuch, Carol, for being a part
of the program. I want to thankyou for taking the time to
(32:59):
listen to our Ask a Farmerpodcast. We at Canadian Food
Focus value the input from ourlisteners and ask that you
share this podcast with yourfriends and family. Remember,
this is a two-Way street, so weseek your input for future
segments that are of interestto you about food and farming .
(33:20):
To do this, please click on theAsk us icon at the top of our
website, Canadian foodfocus.org . While you're there,
feel free to follow ournumerous social media links and
sign up for our newsletter.
This segment was produced andedited by Angela Larsson,
research and Writing by DorothyLong and Penny Eden . Music by
(33:40):
Andy Elson . I'm your hostClinton Moncha . And from all
of us here at Canadian FoodFocus, we wish you good health
and great Eats.
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Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com