October 6, 2025 • 24 mins
Text the ATB Team! We'd love to hear from you!
In this “At the Boundary” podcast, GNSI Academic Director David Oakley, PhD, spoke with two students from the University of South Florida selected to attend the 2025 ISI Programme: May Birch and Kyle Rudd.
Throughout the episode, Birch and Rudd, who are both members of USF’s Future Strategist Program, share their experiences over the summer. They discuss exclusive networking opportunities and insight into intelligence and security careers unknown to them beforehand. The students also noted the wealth of first hand experiences shared by distinguished experts from around the globe. Not to mention the scenic Cambridge University campus and surrounding landscape.
The five week trip is part of a partnership between GNSI and The International Security and Intelligence Programme presented by the Cambridge Security Initiative & The Department of War Studies. GNSI is determined to support this and other student initiatives to better prepare the next generation of security practitioners.
For more information about The International Security and Intelligence Programme at Cambridge University, please check their website in the links below.
Links from the episode:
• Cyber Beacon 2025 registration here!
• Register for the Florida Security Forum: Port and Maritime Security
At the Boundary from the Global and National Security Institute at the University of South Florida, features global and national security issues we’ve found to be insightful, intriguing, fascinating, maybe controversial, but overall just worth talking about.
A "boundary" is a place, either literal or figurative, where two forces exist in close proximity to each other. Sometimes that boundary is in a state of harmony. More often than not, that boundary has a bit of chaos baked in. The Global and National Security Institute will live on the boundary of security policy and technology and that's where this podcast will focus.
The mission of GNSI is to provide actionable solutions to 21st-century security challenges for decision-makers at the local, state, national and global levels. We hope you enjoy At the Boundary.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim Cardoso (00:12):
Jim, hello everyone. Welcome to this week's
episode of at the boundary, thepodcast from the global and
national security Institute atthe University of South Florida.
I'm Jim Cardoso, Senior Directorfor GNSI, and your host for at
the boundary. Today on the show,we're going to talk with two USF
(00:32):
students on the exciting andunique way they pass their
summer. May Burch and Kyle Ruddspent five weeks in the UK
studying with some of theworld's leading experts in
national security andintelligence at the renowned
international security andintelligence program at
Cambridge University. More fromthem in a moment. First, a
(00:53):
reminder that cyber beaconconference is scheduled for
October 16. Here at USF,registration has gone great so
far, and we're excited topartner on this flagship
National Defense Universityevent for its first foray
outside the immediate NationalCapital Region. That being said.
NDU is one of the many federalgovernment organizations
(01:14):
impacted by the shutdown.
Depending on how long it takesthe government to reopen, it may
drive a relook at that October16 date. Remember, though that
registration is free, so keepdoing so and telling your
friends to do so, even as theshutdown injects uncertainty,
we're excited to highlight justa few of the scheduled speakers
for the event. GNSI ExecutiveDirector, retired Marine Corps
(01:37):
General Frank McKenzie, NDUPresident, Vice Admiral Peter
Garvin, principal cyber Advisorto the Secretary of the Army,
Brandon Pugh, and former NDUpresident, retired Air Force
Lieutenant General Michaelplane. Keep an eye on our social
media and website for updates onthe status of the conference.
Okay, time to bring in ourfeatured guests today, May Burch
(02:00):
and Kyle Rudd, two USF studentsand members of GNSI future
strategist program, along withDr Dave Oakley, GNSI Academic
Director, Dave helped forge apartnership between GNSI and the
international security andintelligence program, one of The
world's leading educationprograms for future and current
(02:20):
practitioners and part of theCambridge University security
initiative, our partnership withisI allows our team to send up
to four students to Cambridgeeach year to attend the program.
May and Kyle were chosen thisyear as the first two students
to attend. They spent five weeksin the UK this summer, and are
here today to talk with Daveabout their experience.
Dave Oakley (02:47):
Welcome May and Kyle, it's great to have
Unknown (02:49):
you. Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us.
Hey, you know,
Dave Oakley (02:53):
to get started, we'd like you to first tell,
tell us a little bit, or tellthe listeners a little bit about
yourself. Begin with you may.
May Burch (03:00):
Hi, guys, I'm May. So I'm an International Studies
major with a minor in LegalStudies. This is my third year
at USF. I am graduating in thespring, and I'm kind of
concentrated on China USrelations, which is what I
studied a bit more about inCambridge, and then eventually I
hope to go to law school and dointernational law.
Unknown (03:24):
Hey, thanks, May. How about you, Kyle, sure. I am also
a junior here at USF. I will begraduating in fall of 2027 so
I'll be taking up all fouryears, not as quick as May, but
I am studying internationalrelations in econ, and I have a
minor in intelligence studies.
Dave Oakley (03:38):
Hey, don't worry, it took me four and a half
years. Hey, you know, first youwere our two inaugural students
attending the Cambridge securityinitiatives international
security intelligence program.
What motivated for you to apply
Unknown (03:52):
sure I could start off.
I have always been interested inintelligence, so I added my
minor in intelligence last year,when I was starting to get into
the open source work at one ofmy internships. Fell in love
with that kind of work andwanted to learn more about it. I
also added econ around the sametime. So I was looking to merge
the two econ and intelligencework together, and I really
wanted to work on a researchproject, just to learn as much
as I could about that field.
(04:14):
When I was over, you know, on aresearch study program or
whatever, through FSP, I sawthis program come up in
Cambridge. I was already inEngland at the time. Actually
fell in love with the twocountries, loved their
relationship together, andwanted to learn more about that.
So that's what really encouragedme. It was the UK based
experience that I could tie inwith the US intel that was
something that really
Dave Oakley (04:34):
interested me. You mentioned your research project.
Can you go in a little moredetail explain what you focused
your research on while you'reover there? Yeah. So I was
Unknown (04:40):
looking a little bit into cybersecurity stuff. So I
was focusing on how the US andthe UK can collaborate best to
combat any sort of cyber crimesthat would impact our
infrastructure. So power grids,electric vehicle charging, gas
stations, anything that'sinfrastructure related, I wanted
to figure out how we couldprevent that from happening in
the future. Be. Because that isthe backbone of the world
(05:02):
economy. So that's, that's whatmy research was in.
Dave Oakley (05:05):
Hey, thanks, Kyle.
Hey, May. What motivated you? SoI
May Burch (05:08):
was always kind of interested in national security.
The reason I came to USF,actually, was because I used to
attend the GNSI conferences mysenior year with my dad, and my
dad's in the field. So it alwaysgot me really interested in the
field. So when I was studying, Iknew I was interested in
national security, but I wasn'tnecessarily sure what in
national security. So I ended upjoining FSP. When it started, I
(05:31):
became their inauguralpresident, and I started to kind
of gear my interest towardsspecifically East Asia, mostly
because I've been learningMandarin, and it was kind of
naturally fell into place. Sowhen I saw that there was an
opportunity to go to Cambridgeand study and research, I
decided to take that opportunityto further my own research in
(05:52):
the field, but also to go to theUK, because I'd never been there
and see kind of a new countryand a new experience at a new
institution.
Dave Oakley (05:59):
So you mentioned a research project. What did you
focus your research on?
May Burch (06:03):
So my research was how the intelligence community
in the US kind of played off ofthe administration each year
towards their China policy. Sowithin the last five years,
there's been a complete shift inhow we view China, and a lot of
that is because of the annualthreat assessments that are put
out every year by theintelligence community, which
(06:24):
are then reflected in thenational security strategy
that's put out by theadministration each year. So I
kind of looked at that, and thenI also had looked at the Pacific
deterrence index to look at howour funding in the area has
increased, because that's amonetary way to say how we've
(06:47):
changed our intentions in thearea.
Dave Oakley (06:49):
It sounds like both. You had an interesting
research experience over there.
You know, thinking about yourbroader experience. You know, us
back here, sat every week andwaited for your student blog
from Cambridge. You know, withanticipation. Can you tell us a
little bit about your experiencein Cambridge? For those who read
the blog and maybe those whodidn't have the opportunity,
May Burch (07:10):
Cambridge was wonderful. I mean, when I first
stepped in Cambridge, I feltlike I was on the scene of a
Harry Potter movie, which kindof makes sense, because I did
film some of the movies there.
It was very vibrant. I will saythere were people from, I feel
like so many differentcountries, just coming to check
Cambridge out and look at these,you know, historic sites, as for
the institution that we were atin the classes that we took, it
(07:31):
was unbelievably intense attimes, but enjoyable. I must
say, they they brought a lot ofprofessionals from fields that I
don't think I would have everhad the opportunity to talk to
on a regular basis. Um, and Ilearned things about other parts
of the world that I don't thinkI would have ever learned just
(07:55):
staying here at USF. Becauseunfortunately, that information
is not always available unlessyou're hearing it directly from
the mouth of someone that livesthere. So I think it was
honestly kind of a life changingexperience, because I think it
really makes you broaden yourhorizons. And you know, with
such a because there was about80 of us in our cohort, and we
(08:17):
all came from differentcountries, different careers.
And when I had first gone there,I'd anticipated that everyone
would be an undergrad, just likeme and Kyle, but they were all,
almost all of them wereprofessionals in the career,
actually doing things in theworld now, which is really
interesting, because you got tosee like this different lens of
intelligence and security fromlike, a career standpoint, and
(08:40):
not just a educationalstandpoint, as I had seen it in
so, yeah, I would say it'sdefinitely career changing and
life changing. You quite
Dave Oakley (08:52):
enjoyed it. I'm gonna throw a question at you.
This will I'm gonna ask Kyle thesame question, so you'll have a
little chance to think about it.
But if you had to name maybe oneor two of the best experiences
that you had in Cambridge, be ita speaker, an event, or
something that you experienced.
What would you name?
May Burch (09:11):
I would say the first one would be there was an
officer that came from Pakistan,and I really, really enjoyed his
speech, just because, I think hegave us a difference of opinion
that As Americans, we wouldnever consider he had worked for
Sis, I believe, which is thePakistani intelligence, like
(09:34):
it's their CIA, and he was apretty high up officer. He was
telling us about his ownexperience, and I thought it was
very interesting, because I justthere was information in there
that you just can't get from,like reading a book or taking a
class. So that was probably mytop most enjoyable experience,
(09:56):
because it gave me a verydifferent perspective. And then
I. Another experience I quiteenjoyed was we had a conference.
So there's a conference atCambridge, I said, about a two
day conference. And some ofthose panels that we had with
the speakers were veryinteresting. They made you think
about things in a completelydifferent light. And we had some
(10:19):
very like enthusiastic speakers.
So I think that was also veryinformational. And I enjoyed
seeing like, the difference inopinions between like the panel
members, which I think they dida really good job of bringing in
people with two different sidesof the same coin.
Dave Oakley (10:35):
So yeah, I've been to the this was my second year
at that event, and I I'm alwaysimpressed with how the
conveners, Mike, Dave and othersare able to bring different,
differing views on the samepanel and have a productive
dialog. So yeah, I agree withyou. So turning over to you,
Kyle, how was your experience inCambridge, and what were the
(10:57):
highlights for you?
Unknown (10:58):
Yeah. So one of the best months of my entire life. I
met interesting people fromevery walk of life. I made great
friends from Qatar. I made greatfriends who had just gotten out
of the military. I had friendswho were deep into academia, and
I had friends who were, youknow, in the middle of their
careers, working at companies weall know, doing interesting
stuff. My all time. Favoritepart of that entire program was
(11:21):
the Doug wise in Richard kerbageis how you say it, think it,
think it's how you say his lastname. They gave a book speak. It
was incredible. I actually, justthe other day, was talking to
one of my one of my professors,after class, and he recommended
me a book that he that he had inthe class, and handed it to me,
and I'm flipping through thepages, and I'm like, this.
Something about this feelsfamiliar. It was actually
Richard's book that he waspromoting while we were at
(11:43):
Cambridge. So just kind of asmall world of intelligence was
interesting. Something I reallynoticed. The book's called the
defector. I haven't read thatone yet, but I did read his The
Secret History of the Five Eyesbook, which was very
interesting. I audio booked it.
Interesting guy, and when Dougwise was speaking, who was the
chief of mission for a bunch ofdifferent countries, I think
(12:04):
Iraq and Afghanistan, he was,you know, at the forefront of
the intelligence war, I guessyou could say at that time. So
hearing from him, just anincredibly passionate speaker,
incredibly accessible. I'vemessaged him on LinkedIn several
times. He's gotten back to me.
Yeah. Gotten back to me, so I'dsay Richard cabbage and Doug
(12:26):
wise. Incredible people,incredible experience. And then,
of course, the conference twodays of listening to people who
know everything there is to knowabout this world, interesting
stuff. Learned about careerpaths in intelligence that I
didn't even know existed beforethis. So they had a guy from
Google there who was talkingabout, you know, the quantum
computing that they do at Googleand all the security systems
(12:47):
behind that, and what's going tohappen when, you know, we can
crack the encryptions in 20minutes that we have built our
entire security systems on. Sojust hearing about all the
different opportunities, all thedifferent career paths, and all
the different people that cometogether to make the
intelligence community work wasreally interesting
Dave Oakley (13:04):
to me. No, I'm, you know, good friends with with
Doug and Richard. And you'reright. There are fantastic
folks. In fact, Doug's one ofour non resident distinguished
fellows, and curvages new book,The defector. We're hoping to do
a book talk with him. So becauseit just came out in the UK, you
know, now that you guys haveexperienced this, it sounds like
it was a great experience, veryenriching. I was hoping you
(13:27):
could tell us a little bit aboutwhat you're currently doing on
campus and what are your goalsmoving forward, both
academically and professionallyand personally. And we'll begin
with with you this time.
Unknown (13:39):
Kyle, sure, yeah. So when I got back, I was looking
for a campus job, actually, andI worked now with USF world,
helping other students goabroad, either for Fulbright
programs, for research projects,for Peace Corps, anything is I
had such a great experience, Iwant to give you know. I want to
promote that to other studentsso they have the opportunity to
have the same experiences that Ihad. So campus job, working at
(14:00):
USF world, working on promotingall of their exchange programs,
is something I'm very passionateabout. Staying involved with
FSP, looking forward to ourmeeting coming up sometime in
the next couple of weeks there,and our book and movie night
thing tonight. I'm lookingforward to so staying involved
at that. And then one otherthing I've gotten pretty heavily
involved in is the iccaescholars program it is. They
(14:22):
actually promoted it with myminor in intelligence. Is this
group of students who cometogether who work on a series of
projects that relate to Intel.
So I worked on one a little bitago, which was they gave us
access to the unclassifiedsatellite images from China, and
we were actually able to compilea report on it, analyzing the
economy of China. So my group,we were working on trying to
(14:43):
figure out where China's workingto invest in. So we would use
these images of what we focusedon was the ports. And we were
able to see, hey, look, there's,you know, 500 container ships
coming in and out of here eachmonth. Something's going on
here, because this is a portthat you know, that they haven't
been for. Focusing on so we sawthat there was a bunch of
activity going on there. We wereable to write a report saying,
(15:03):
This is what we think is goingon here, and we'll see in the
future if it comes true. And theexciting part about that was
they gave us so much freedom.
They gave us the question andtold us to write a report. They
gave us no other instructions.
So my great team of all FSPpeople, actually we worked and
uploaded these images into an AImodel that we built. So we
taught the AI model tobasically, like, look at the
(15:23):
amount of ships, count them andgive us a graph. So instead of
looking through these 10,000images across five years or
whatever the timeframe was, wewere able to mass upload this
file, send it off to the AImodel, let it run for a couple
hours, whatever had to do, andthen it would come back and give
us an accurate port, showing usthe increase in shipping into
(15:44):
this region. At that time, wesubmitted it to the DNI, which
is the organization that fundsthe iccie scholarships, and a
couple of their senior memberswrote back to us, impressed with
the impressed with the GPT modelthat we built, and just
interested to learn more. Sothat was something that
happening on campus right now.
(16:05):
Every student can get involvedin is just interesting
experience and interestingconnections.
Dave Oakley (16:10):
Hey, thanks. Colin May, how about you? What are
your things you work on now,your future goals?
Professionally, personally,academically.
May Burch (16:17):
So as I mentioned before, I'm still involved with
FSP, except instead ofPresident, I'm now event
coordinator. Definitely aninteresting switch. I've
personally enjoyed it. Anotherthing is, I do have my campus
jobs. Unfortunately, none ofthem are quite related to
intelligence. I do. I do work myfill, and then for some of like
(16:39):
the more intelligence focusedright now I'm a mark war fellow,
so I sit on the Tampa BayCommittee on Foreign Relations.
I get to hear from thesespeakers, very distinguished
people. And they talk abouttheir careers. They talk about,
you know, what they've done withtheir life. And it's very
interesting. The last one that Iwent to, there was a gentleman
talking about his work inAfrica, because he was an
(17:01):
ambassador there. Veryinteresting. I really enjoyed
that talk. And you also get tosit with the even the people in
the audience are all veryextraordinary people who did a
lot with their lives. So thatwas a very interesting one. I
also just applied for myFulbright. I know that Kyle had
mentioned that, but I justapplied for my Fulbright to
Taiwan. So that was somethingthat took up a majority of my
(17:23):
last month or so, and hopefully,if I am able to get that, it
will give me more of an inperson view of East Asia and
East Asian relations. Thanks.
Dave Oakley (17:36):
May you know, I want to give you both an
opportunity for some finalthoughts. But as part of those
final thoughts, I want you togive some thoughts on other
people applying for theinternational security
intelligence program. And soapplications for the 2026 year
are going to open up roughlyaround the November timeframe.
And so what would you say to thestudent who is looking at that
(17:56):
opportunity and trying to thinkof other opportunities and
decide whether or not to applyfor it.
May Burch (18:04):
I would say to anyone interested in applying, just do
it. You know, I didn't thinkthat I was going to get it, and
I still applied. And I was like,you know, I'll just throw my hat
in the ring and I'll see. And Igot it, and I had an incredible
experience, and I would do itall over again if I could. So I
will say, Just do it. Don't feellike you have to know a lot
(18:25):
about intelligence and securityto go out there. This is
supposed to be a learningopportunity for a lot of people.
So, you know, maybe you'reslightly interested in the
field, or maybe you have a veryniche topic you want to
research, and you you know, youdon't feel qualified. This is
meant to be one of those likethings that qualify you for
future experiences. So to anystudent that is interested in
(18:47):
applying, I really do say Apply.
And then to anyone that does getthis opportunity, and does go to
Cambridge, make the most of thatmonth, really just do like,
don't, don't sit around, just dowhatever you can. You know, talk
to your peers, walk aroundCambridge, go to London, do
something. I know that there'sso much to do in the UK. I mean,
you have a whole month there anda bunch of resources around you,
(19:08):
so make sure to make the most ofthe month that you're there
Dave Oakley (19:13):
before we move over to Kyle. I gotta have one really
serious question, Did either ofyou go punting? Kids? I did not,
you did not go pun,
Unknown (19:22):
no, I was very sick that one day.
May Burch (19:24):
No, I love punting.
Oh my gosh, yes, if you go toCambridge, please go punting. It
is one of the most funexperiences. It basically is.
It's boats on the river. Theytake you down this I ideally
it's idyllic, idyllic river. Andthey, they show you a lot of the
sites from this river, and it'sjust beautiful. There's ducks
(19:46):
that come up to you, and there'sthis punting boat that sells
alcohol with a dog. It's justlike, it's an experience. It's,
I feel like an authenticCambridge experience. So please
do go. Do that if you go toCambridge, that was, like, one
of my favorite things there.
Dave Oakley (20:04):
Thanks, man. Kyle, your final thoughts, what you
would recommend to a studentwho's considering applying for
the program,
Unknown (20:10):
so I'm gonna absolutely agree with everything they said.
You don't have to be an expertin intelligence going in. We're
students, and they know that theone thing I can recommend to you
is this will be the bestnetworking experience you could
possibly have if you want towork in intelligence. The amount
of people they have in one areathat are all interested in the
exact same thing as you issomething I don't think is going
(20:30):
to be replicated for a long timein your career. So network like
crazy, because the people thereare going to be working with you
in this field for your career,it's people you're gonna know
forever. I think that one of myhighlights was the networking.
Like, completely agree thatnetworking is the greatest thing
(20:51):
that could not have came out ofthis trip. So one of my closest
friends on this trip was part ofa think tank as one of their
collegiate members. So I wasactually able to join this
network based on her reference,she referred me to them, got in
contact a little bit, and got toknow a lot of the guys at the
think tank. This is AEI, theAmerican Enterprise Institute.
And as a collegiate member, youare able to attend all of their
(21:13):
conferences. I they flying meout to Philly next month to
attend a conference on religionand national security. So the
networking opportunities thereare incredible. And I don't just
mean with other students, theprofessors there are there to
help you as well. So of course,any of the speakers, you can
message them on LinkedIn. A lotof us, a lot of them gave us our
emails. I've reached out toseveral of them since then. Doug
(21:36):
wise, I mentioned earlier, justa great networking experience.
Make the most of it and explorewhat the UK has to offer over
there, 100% go explore Londonfor a day. Go to the Winston
Churchill war rooms. Go toBexley Park. Go explore
everything that you possibly canin the month that you get over
there.
Dave Oakley (21:55):
Hey, thanks, Kyle.
Hey, May. Kyle, this has been atremendous opportunity to sit
down chat with you, veryimpressed of what you've
achieved already and lookingforward to what you guys achieve
in the future. So glad thatyou're part of GNSI, glad that
you're part of FSP and thankyou. Thank you. Thank you.
Jim Cardoso (22:16):
Special. Thanks to Dr Dave Oakley, GNSI Academic
Director, along with USFstudents and GNSI Future
strategist Program members, mayBurch and Kyle Rudd, the first
two students chosen to attend aprestigious international
security and intelligenceprogram under the Cambridge
University Security Initiative,we plan to send students to isI
(22:37):
every summer, and welcome yourfinancial support To help make
that happen, go to our websiteor contact us to see ways you
can contribute for students.
Applications for 2026 will openbefore you know it. So start
building your resume. Next week,on the podcast, we'll be talking
with three co authors of anarticle on drone threats to
stadiums and public venues fromthe latest issue of GNSI is
(23:00):
Journal of strategic security.
We've talked about drones andautonomous warfare previously on
at the boundary, but thisarticle dives into a direct
threat to infrastructure and thecivilian population. Dr John
Sullivan, Nathan Jones andGeorge Davis Jr will join us
next week if you don't want tomiss that episode or any of our
(23:22):
future episodes, be sure tosubscribe. Wherever you get your
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Bell while you're there. Thanksfor listening today. Follow
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Underscore GNSI And check outour website as well, at
usf.edu/gnsi, while you'rethere, don't forget to subscribe
(23:47):
to our monthly newsletter that'sgoing to wrap up this episode of
at the boundary. Each newepisode will feature global and
national security issues wefound to be insightful,
intriguing, maybe controversial,but overall, just we're talking
about, I'm Jim Cardoso, andwe'll see you at the boundary.
(24:09):
You.
Jim, hello everyone. Welcome to this week's
episode of at the boundary, thepodcast from the global and
national security Institute atthe University of South Florida.
I'm Jim Cardoso, Senior Directorfor GNSI, and your host for at
the boundary. Today on the show,we're going to talk with two USF
(00:32):
students on the exciting andunique way they pass their
summer. May Burch and Kyle Ruddspent five weeks in the UK
studying with some of theworld's leading experts in
national security andintelligence at the renowned
international security andintelligence program at
Cambridge University. More fromthem in a moment. First, a
(00:53):
reminder that cyber beaconconference is scheduled for
October 16. Here at USF,registration has gone great so
far, and we're excited topartner on this flagship
National Defense Universityevent for its first foray
outside the immediate NationalCapital Region. That being said.
NDU is one of the many federalgovernment organizations
(01:14):
impacted by the shutdown.
Depending on how long it takesthe government to reopen, it may
drive a relook at that October16 date. Remember, though that
registration is free, so keepdoing so and telling your
friends to do so, even as theshutdown injects uncertainty,
we're excited to highlight justa few of the scheduled speakers
for the event. GNSI ExecutiveDirector, retired Marine Corps
(01:37):
General Frank McKenzie, NDUPresident, Vice Admiral Peter
Garvin, principal cyber Advisorto the Secretary of the Army,
Brandon Pugh, and former NDUpresident, retired Air Force
Lieutenant General Michaelplane. Keep an eye on our social
media and website for updates onthe status of the conference.
Okay, time to bring in ourfeatured guests today, May Burch
(02:00):
and Kyle Rudd, two USF studentsand members of GNSI future
strategist program, along withDr Dave Oakley, GNSI Academic
Director, Dave helped forge apartnership between GNSI and the
international security andintelligence program, one of The
world's leading educationprograms for future and current
(02:20):
practitioners and part of theCambridge University security
initiative, our partnership withisI allows our team to send up
to four students to Cambridgeeach year to attend the program.
May and Kyle were chosen thisyear as the first two students
to attend. They spent five weeksin the UK this summer, and are
here today to talk with Daveabout their experience.
Dave Oakley (02:47):
Welcome May and Kyle, it's great to have
Unknown (02:49):
you. Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us.
Hey, you know,
Dave Oakley (02:53):
to get started, we'd like you to first tell,
tell us a little bit, or tellthe listeners a little bit about
yourself. Begin with you may.
May Burch (03:00):
Hi, guys, I'm May. So I'm an International Studies
major with a minor in LegalStudies. This is my third year
at USF. I am graduating in thespring, and I'm kind of
concentrated on China USrelations, which is what I
studied a bit more about inCambridge, and then eventually I
hope to go to law school and dointernational law.
Unknown (03:24):
Hey, thanks, May. How about you, Kyle, sure. I am also
a junior here at USF. I will begraduating in fall of 2027 so
I'll be taking up all fouryears, not as quick as May, but
I am studying internationalrelations in econ, and I have a
minor in intelligence studies.
Dave Oakley (03:38):
Hey, don't worry, it took me four and a half
years. Hey, you know, first youwere our two inaugural students
attending the Cambridge securityinitiatives international
security intelligence program.
What motivated for you to apply
Unknown (03:52):
sure I could start off.
I have always been interested inintelligence, so I added my
minor in intelligence last year,when I was starting to get into
the open source work at one ofmy internships. Fell in love
with that kind of work andwanted to learn more about it. I
also added econ around the sametime. So I was looking to merge
the two econ and intelligencework together, and I really
wanted to work on a researchproject, just to learn as much
as I could about that field.
(04:14):
When I was over, you know, on aresearch study program or
whatever, through FSP, I sawthis program come up in
Cambridge. I was already inEngland at the time. Actually
fell in love with the twocountries, loved their
relationship together, andwanted to learn more about that.
So that's what really encouragedme. It was the UK based
experience that I could tie inwith the US intel that was
something that really
Dave Oakley (04:34):
interested me. You mentioned your research project.
Can you go in a little moredetail explain what you focused
your research on while you'reover there? Yeah. So I was
Unknown (04:40):
looking a little bit into cybersecurity stuff. So I
was focusing on how the US andthe UK can collaborate best to
combat any sort of cyber crimesthat would impact our
infrastructure. So power grids,electric vehicle charging, gas
stations, anything that'sinfrastructure related, I wanted
to figure out how we couldprevent that from happening in
the future. Be. Because that isthe backbone of the world
(05:02):
economy. So that's, that's whatmy research was in.
Dave Oakley (05:05):
Hey, thanks, Kyle.
Hey, May. What motivated you? SoI
May Burch (05:08):
was always kind of interested in national security.
The reason I came to USF,actually, was because I used to
attend the GNSI conferences mysenior year with my dad, and my
dad's in the field. So it alwaysgot me really interested in the
field. So when I was studying, Iknew I was interested in
national security, but I wasn'tnecessarily sure what in
national security. So I ended upjoining FSP. When it started, I
(05:31):
became their inauguralpresident, and I started to kind
of gear my interest towardsspecifically East Asia, mostly
because I've been learningMandarin, and it was kind of
naturally fell into place. Sowhen I saw that there was an
opportunity to go to Cambridgeand study and research, I
decided to take that opportunityto further my own research in
(05:52):
the field, but also to go to theUK, because I'd never been there
and see kind of a new countryand a new experience at a new
institution.
Dave Oakley (05:59):
So you mentioned a research project. What did you
focus your research on?
May Burch (06:03):
So my research was how the intelligence community
in the US kind of played off ofthe administration each year
towards their China policy. Sowithin the last five years,
there's been a complete shift inhow we view China, and a lot of
that is because of the annualthreat assessments that are put
out every year by theintelligence community, which
(06:24):
are then reflected in thenational security strategy
that's put out by theadministration each year. So I
kind of looked at that, and thenI also had looked at the Pacific
deterrence index to look at howour funding in the area has
increased, because that's amonetary way to say how we've
(06:47):
changed our intentions in thearea.
Dave Oakley (06:49):
It sounds like both. You had an interesting
research experience over there.
You know, thinking about yourbroader experience. You know, us
back here, sat every week andwaited for your student blog
from Cambridge. You know, withanticipation. Can you tell us a
little bit about your experiencein Cambridge? For those who read
the blog and maybe those whodidn't have the opportunity,
May Burch (07:10):
Cambridge was wonderful. I mean, when I first
stepped in Cambridge, I feltlike I was on the scene of a
Harry Potter movie, which kindof makes sense, because I did
film some of the movies there.
It was very vibrant. I will saythere were people from, I feel
like so many differentcountries, just coming to check
Cambridge out and look at these,you know, historic sites, as for
the institution that we were atin the classes that we took, it
(07:31):
was unbelievably intense attimes, but enjoyable. I must
say, they they brought a lot ofprofessionals from fields that I
don't think I would have everhad the opportunity to talk to
on a regular basis. Um, and Ilearned things about other parts
of the world that I don't thinkI would have ever learned just
(07:55):
staying here at USF. Becauseunfortunately, that information
is not always available unlessyou're hearing it directly from
the mouth of someone that livesthere. So I think it was
honestly kind of a life changingexperience, because I think it
really makes you broaden yourhorizons. And you know, with
such a because there was about80 of us in our cohort, and we
(08:17):
all came from differentcountries, different careers.
And when I had first gone there,I'd anticipated that everyone
would be an undergrad, just likeme and Kyle, but they were all,
almost all of them wereprofessionals in the career,
actually doing things in theworld now, which is really
interesting, because you got tosee like this different lens of
intelligence and security fromlike, a career standpoint, and
(08:40):
not just a educationalstandpoint, as I had seen it in
so, yeah, I would say it'sdefinitely career changing and
life changing. You quite
Dave Oakley (08:52):
enjoyed it. I'm gonna throw a question at you.
This will I'm gonna ask Kyle thesame question, so you'll have a
little chance to think about it.
But if you had to name maybe oneor two of the best experiences
that you had in Cambridge, be ita speaker, an event, or
something that you experienced.
What would you name?
May Burch (09:11):
I would say the first one would be there was an
officer that came from Pakistan,and I really, really enjoyed his
speech, just because, I think hegave us a difference of opinion
that As Americans, we wouldnever consider he had worked for
Sis, I believe, which is thePakistani intelligence, like
(09:34):
it's their CIA, and he was apretty high up officer. He was
telling us about his ownexperience, and I thought it was
very interesting, because I justthere was information in there
that you just can't get from,like reading a book or taking a
class. So that was probably mytop most enjoyable experience,
(09:56):
because it gave me a verydifferent perspective. And then
I. Another experience I quiteenjoyed was we had a conference.
So there's a conference atCambridge, I said, about a two
day conference. And some ofthose panels that we had with
the speakers were veryinteresting. They made you think
about things in a completelydifferent light. And we had some
(10:19):
very like enthusiastic speakers.
So I think that was also veryinformational. And I enjoyed
seeing like, the difference inopinions between like the panel
members, which I think they dida really good job of bringing in
people with two different sidesof the same coin.
Dave Oakley (10:35):
So yeah, I've been to the this was my second year
at that event, and I I'm alwaysimpressed with how the
conveners, Mike, Dave and othersare able to bring different,
differing views on the samepanel and have a productive
dialog. So yeah, I agree withyou. So turning over to you,
Kyle, how was your experience inCambridge, and what were the
(10:57):
highlights for you?
Unknown (10:58):
Yeah. So one of the best months of my entire life. I
met interesting people fromevery walk of life. I made great
friends from Qatar. I made greatfriends who had just gotten out
of the military. I had friendswho were deep into academia, and
I had friends who were, youknow, in the middle of their
careers, working at companies weall know, doing interesting
stuff. My all time. Favoritepart of that entire program was
(11:21):
the Doug wise in Richard kerbageis how you say it, think it,
think it's how you say his lastname. They gave a book speak. It
was incredible. I actually, justthe other day, was talking to
one of my one of my professors,after class, and he recommended
me a book that he that he had inthe class, and handed it to me,
and I'm flipping through thepages, and I'm like, this.
Something about this feelsfamiliar. It was actually
Richard's book that he waspromoting while we were at
(11:43):
Cambridge. So just kind of asmall world of intelligence was
interesting. Something I reallynoticed. The book's called the
defector. I haven't read thatone yet, but I did read his The
Secret History of the Five Eyesbook, which was very
interesting. I audio booked it.
Interesting guy, and when Dougwise was speaking, who was the
chief of mission for a bunch ofdifferent countries, I think
(12:04):
Iraq and Afghanistan, he was,you know, at the forefront of
the intelligence war, I guessyou could say at that time. So
hearing from him, just anincredibly passionate speaker,
incredibly accessible. I'vemessaged him on LinkedIn several
times. He's gotten back to me.
Yeah. Gotten back to me, so I'dsay Richard cabbage and Doug
(12:26):
wise. Incredible people,incredible experience. And then,
of course, the conference twodays of listening to people who
know everything there is to knowabout this world, interesting
stuff. Learned about careerpaths in intelligence that I
didn't even know existed beforethis. So they had a guy from
Google there who was talkingabout, you know, the quantum
computing that they do at Googleand all the security systems
(12:47):
behind that, and what's going tohappen when, you know, we can
crack the encryptions in 20minutes that we have built our
entire security systems on. Sojust hearing about all the
different opportunities, all thedifferent career paths, and all
the different people that cometogether to make the
intelligence community work wasreally interesting
Dave Oakley (13:04):
to me. No, I'm, you know, good friends with with
Doug and Richard. And you'reright. There are fantastic
folks. In fact, Doug's one ofour non resident distinguished
fellows, and curvages new book,The defector. We're hoping to do
a book talk with him. So becauseit just came out in the UK, you
know, now that you guys haveexperienced this, it sounds like
it was a great experience, veryenriching. I was hoping you
(13:27):
could tell us a little bit aboutwhat you're currently doing on
campus and what are your goalsmoving forward, both
academically and professionallyand personally. And we'll begin
with with you this time.
Unknown (13:39):
Kyle, sure, yeah. So when I got back, I was looking
for a campus job, actually, andI worked now with USF world,
helping other students goabroad, either for Fulbright
programs, for research projects,for Peace Corps, anything is I
had such a great experience, Iwant to give you know. I want to
promote that to other studentsso they have the opportunity to
have the same experiences that Ihad. So campus job, working at
(14:00):
USF world, working on promotingall of their exchange programs,
is something I'm very passionateabout. Staying involved with
FSP, looking forward to ourmeeting coming up sometime in
the next couple of weeks there,and our book and movie night
thing tonight. I'm lookingforward to so staying involved
at that. And then one otherthing I've gotten pretty heavily
involved in is the iccaescholars program it is. They
(14:22):
actually promoted it with myminor in intelligence. Is this
group of students who cometogether who work on a series of
projects that relate to Intel.
So I worked on one a little bitago, which was they gave us
access to the unclassifiedsatellite images from China, and
we were actually able to compilea report on it, analyzing the
economy of China. So my group,we were working on trying to
(14:43):
figure out where China's workingto invest in. So we would use
these images of what we focusedon was the ports. And we were
able to see, hey, look, there's,you know, 500 container ships
coming in and out of here eachmonth. Something's going on
here, because this is a portthat you know, that they haven't
been for. Focusing on so we sawthat there was a bunch of
activity going on there. We wereable to write a report saying,
(15:03):
This is what we think is goingon here, and we'll see in the
future if it comes true. And theexciting part about that was
they gave us so much freedom.
They gave us the question andtold us to write a report. They
gave us no other instructions.
So my great team of all FSPpeople, actually we worked and
uploaded these images into an AImodel that we built. So we
taught the AI model tobasically, like, look at the
(15:23):
amount of ships, count them andgive us a graph. So instead of
looking through these 10,000images across five years or
whatever the timeframe was, wewere able to mass upload this
file, send it off to the AImodel, let it run for a couple
hours, whatever had to do, andthen it would come back and give
us an accurate port, showing usthe increase in shipping into
(15:44):
this region. At that time, wesubmitted it to the DNI, which
is the organization that fundsthe iccie scholarships, and a
couple of their senior memberswrote back to us, impressed with
the impressed with the GPT modelthat we built, and just
interested to learn more. Sothat was something that
happening on campus right now.
(16:05):
Every student can get involvedin is just interesting
experience and interestingconnections.
Dave Oakley (16:10):
Hey, thanks. Colin May, how about you? What are
your things you work on now,your future goals?
Professionally, personally,academically.
May Burch (16:17):
So as I mentioned before, I'm still involved with
FSP, except instead ofPresident, I'm now event
coordinator. Definitely aninteresting switch. I've
personally enjoyed it. Anotherthing is, I do have my campus
jobs. Unfortunately, none ofthem are quite related to
intelligence. I do. I do work myfill, and then for some of like
(16:39):
the more intelligence focusedright now I'm a mark war fellow,
so I sit on the Tampa BayCommittee on Foreign Relations.
I get to hear from thesespeakers, very distinguished
people. And they talk abouttheir careers. They talk about,
you know, what they've done withtheir life. And it's very
interesting. The last one that Iwent to, there was a gentleman
talking about his work inAfrica, because he was an
(17:01):
ambassador there. Veryinteresting. I really enjoyed
that talk. And you also get tosit with the even the people in
the audience are all veryextraordinary people who did a
lot with their lives. So thatwas a very interesting one. I
also just applied for myFulbright. I know that Kyle had
mentioned that, but I justapplied for my Fulbright to
Taiwan. So that was somethingthat took up a majority of my
(17:23):
last month or so, and hopefully,if I am able to get that, it
will give me more of an inperson view of East Asia and
East Asian relations. Thanks.
Dave Oakley (17:36):
May you know, I want to give you both an
opportunity for some finalthoughts. But as part of those
final thoughts, I want you togive some thoughts on other
people applying for theinternational security
intelligence program. And soapplications for the 2026 year
are going to open up roughlyaround the November timeframe.
And so what would you say to thestudent who is looking at that
(17:56):
opportunity and trying to thinkof other opportunities and
decide whether or not to applyfor it.
May Burch (18:04):
I would say to anyone interested in applying, just do
it. You know, I didn't thinkthat I was going to get it, and
I still applied. And I was like,you know, I'll just throw my hat
in the ring and I'll see. And Igot it, and I had an incredible
experience, and I would do itall over again if I could. So I
will say, Just do it. Don't feellike you have to know a lot
(18:25):
about intelligence and securityto go out there. This is
supposed to be a learningopportunity for a lot of people.
So, you know, maybe you'reslightly interested in the
field, or maybe you have a veryniche topic you want to
research, and you you know, youdon't feel qualified. This is
meant to be one of those likethings that qualify you for
future experiences. So to anystudent that is interested in
(18:47):
applying, I really do say Apply.
And then to anyone that does getthis opportunity, and does go to
Cambridge, make the most of thatmonth, really just do like,
don't, don't sit around, just dowhatever you can. You know, talk
to your peers, walk aroundCambridge, go to London, do
something. I know that there'sso much to do in the UK. I mean,
you have a whole month there anda bunch of resources around you,
(19:08):
so make sure to make the most ofthe month that you're there
Dave Oakley (19:13):
before we move over to Kyle. I gotta have one really
serious question, Did either ofyou go punting? Kids? I did not,
you did not go pun,
Unknown (19:22):
no, I was very sick that one day.
May Burch (19:24):
No, I love punting.
Oh my gosh, yes, if you go toCambridge, please go punting. It
is one of the most funexperiences. It basically is.
It's boats on the river. Theytake you down this I ideally
it's idyllic, idyllic river. Andthey, they show you a lot of the
sites from this river, and it'sjust beautiful. There's ducks
(19:46):
that come up to you, and there'sthis punting boat that sells
alcohol with a dog. It's justlike, it's an experience. It's,
I feel like an authenticCambridge experience. So please
do go. Do that if you go toCambridge, that was, like, one
of my favorite things there.
Dave Oakley (20:04):
Thanks, man. Kyle, your final thoughts, what you
would recommend to a studentwho's considering applying for
the program,
Unknown (20:10):
so I'm gonna absolutely agree with everything they said.
You don't have to be an expertin intelligence going in. We're
students, and they know that theone thing I can recommend to you
is this will be the bestnetworking experience you could
possibly have if you want towork in intelligence. The amount
of people they have in one areathat are all interested in the
exact same thing as you issomething I don't think is going
(20:30):
to be replicated for a long timein your career. So network like
crazy, because the people thereare going to be working with you
in this field for your career,it's people you're gonna know
forever. I think that one of myhighlights was the networking.
Like, completely agree thatnetworking is the greatest thing
(20:51):
that could not have came out ofthis trip. So one of my closest
friends on this trip was part ofa think tank as one of their
collegiate members. So I wasactually able to join this
network based on her reference,she referred me to them, got in
contact a little bit, and got toknow a lot of the guys at the
think tank. This is AEI, theAmerican Enterprise Institute.
And as a collegiate member, youare able to attend all of their
(21:13):
conferences. I they flying meout to Philly next month to
attend a conference on religionand national security. So the
networking opportunities thereare incredible. And I don't just
mean with other students, theprofessors there are there to
help you as well. So of course,any of the speakers, you can
message them on LinkedIn. A lotof us, a lot of them gave us our
emails. I've reached out toseveral of them since then. Doug
(21:36):
wise, I mentioned earlier, justa great networking experience.
Make the most of it and explorewhat the UK has to offer over
there, 100% go explore Londonfor a day. Go to the Winston
Churchill war rooms. Go toBexley Park. Go explore
everything that you possibly canin the month that you get over
there.
Dave Oakley (21:55):
Hey, thanks, Kyle.
Hey, May. Kyle, this has been atremendous opportunity to sit
down chat with you, veryimpressed of what you've
achieved already and lookingforward to what you guys achieve
in the future. So glad thatyou're part of GNSI, glad that
you're part of FSP and thankyou. Thank you. Thank you.
Jim Cardoso (22:16):
Special. Thanks to Dr Dave Oakley, GNSI Academic
Director, along with USFstudents and GNSI Future
strategist Program members, mayBurch and Kyle Rudd, the first
two students chosen to attend aprestigious international
security and intelligenceprogram under the Cambridge
University Security Initiative,we plan to send students to isI
(22:37):
every summer, and welcome yourfinancial support To help make
that happen, go to our websiteor contact us to see ways you
can contribute for students.
Applications for 2026 will openbefore you know it. So start
building your resume. Next week,on the podcast, we'll be talking
with three co authors of anarticle on drone threats to
stadiums and public venues fromthe latest issue of GNSI is
(23:00):
Journal of strategic security.
We've talked about drones andautonomous warfare previously on
at the boundary, but thisarticle dives into a direct
threat to infrastructure and thecivilian population. Dr John
Sullivan, Nathan Jones andGeorge Davis Jr will join us
next week if you don't want tomiss that episode or any of our
(23:22):
future episodes, be sure tosubscribe. Wherever you get your
podcasts, we're on Applepodcasts, Spotify and even
YouTube. Give us a like andsubscribe and click that alert
Bell while you're there. Thanksfor listening today. Follow
along with GNSI on our LinkedInand X accounts at USF.
Underscore GNSI And check outour website as well, at
usf.edu/gnsi, while you'rethere, don't forget to subscribe
(23:47):
to our monthly newsletter that'sgoing to wrap up this episode of
at the boundary. Each newepisode will feature global and
national security issues wefound to be insightful,
intriguing, maybe controversial,but overall, just we're talking
about, I'm Jim Cardoso, andwe'll see you at the boundary.
(24:09):
You.
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