January 30, 2023 • 15 mins
Selina Iddon delves into the differences between empathy and compassion, starting with a high court judge's experience. She explores the healing process and distinguishes between these concepts, highlighting the importance of compassion over empathy. The discussion covers how compassion, curiosity, and courage interplay, and warns against the unhealthy aspects of empathy. Selina illustrates empathy's pitfalls with a movie example and discusses avoiding responsibility. She advocates for shifting language from empathy to compassion and underscores the power of language in leadership. The episode concludes with insights on compassion leading to fulfillment, wrapped up with closing remarks.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Hello, and welcome back to the Aussie mindsetmentor.
Or if you're joining me for the first time,welcome.
Great to have you here.
Today, I'm going to be looking at empathyversus compassion.
I've heard a couple people lately and and readthings where people are almost proud to call
(00:30):
themselves an empath in that they'reempathetic.
And it's put me on a little bit of a path sincea couple of months ago listening to an
interview with a high court judge in Australia.
And basically he was one of the very few whoretired early and was mainly around, you know,
(00:53):
it's terrible.
They have to, as a judge, look at all theevidence and look at all the photos.
And when he had his own children, that led to Idon't know if it was an actual breakdown, but
anyway, he it was almost a PTSD and he steppeddown.
Great news now is he's he's he's he's backhelping children.
(01:15):
I find it very upsetting myself even justthinking about it.
But on this interview or in this interview, itwas when he was talking about part of his
healing process or getting back to where hecould be effective and make a difference, for
children was in getting the distinction betweenempathy and compassion.
(01:39):
So I've been on a little bit of a journey withthis because also speaking to someone else
who's a Buddhist, she said, yeah, they speak ofstupid compassion.
Now that's normally not a name that I wouldstupid that I would use for anything.
I think it's a little, you know, sort of makewrong or a little bit derogatory.
(02:03):
So I definitely do not want to say that anyonewith empathy and it's not even saying that
empathy is that.
I do want to have a look at that compassion issuch a wonderful thing.
And he the interview, the guy actually said,you know, compassion in the wanting the best
(02:24):
and kindest outcome for someone else.
And if you've listened to any of my podcast,you know that it's all about kindness for me.
So when I look at compassion being the kindnessin wanting to make that difference for kindness
for someone else, compassion is a wonderfulthing.
(02:45):
So it is also removed from ourselves.
So when you're compassionate and you're wantingthe best outcome for someone else, well, that's
devoid of your own beliefs.
It's devoid of, you know, what has happened toyou in the past.
You know, if you were truly wanting the bestfor someone else, you might be open to new
(03:08):
information that you might not have otherwiselooked at.
You might also act in different ways that mightbe out of character for you because they the
other person may have needs that you haven'texperienced or don't have any experience with,
or any knowledge around.
So when you are compassionate for someone,you're also bringing a curiosity.
(03:31):
Another, you know, if you listen to mypodcasts, I think curiosity is one of the
greatest characteristics a person can have.
So all of that is in compassion.
It's all around the other person.
Now looking at empathy, and this is where Ifeel they're just so different.
(03:52):
Empathy is really feeling for that otherperson.
Well, straight away, you know, inside of thatdefinition, it's just like we don't have the
right to do that.
It's not our right to feel for someone else,like, as you have those feelings for them.
It's not gonna take away.
It's not like when you're carrying two bucketsof water and you carry one for them.
(04:19):
It doesn't make you know, that would make theirload lighter.
Right?
However, we don't do that when we're beingempathetic.
Take some of those emotions and might carry itfor them, which is unhealthy or burdening for
us.
However, it doesn't make their load lighter.
If we were compassionate though and we wereunderstanding of their burden and you know we
(04:43):
were willing to to walk with them, but thedifference is you cannot cannot lighten
someone's load by taking on an emotion foryourself, which is theirs.
Which leads me to the second one.
When we're empathetic to do that, first of all,we're relating that feeling or how it might
(05:06):
feel to something that we have experienced orwe're making our own version of it to be able
to relate to it.
So if I was empathizing with someone who hadlost a father or a mother, both their parents,
right, I I could empathize with them and say,well, so have I.
(05:29):
Yeah.
Can you hear in that moment the conversationcame about me and my loss of my parents, which
would be very different to theirs.
I mean, most people as we age will have lostparents.
It's it's part of the the human process becausewe don't live forever, and our parents, by
(05:50):
virtue of them being our parents, are olderthan us.
I can empathize with them, but, really,straight away, I'm taking away from them the
very thing that if I had compassion I would begiving them.
If I had compassion I'd be listening for youknow where is the pain point for them?
(06:11):
There might be you know about the way theypassed or it might be the things they didn't
say before they passed that have them hurtingand incomplete.
It might be that they weren't there or it mightbe lots of different things are actually adding
to that pain of not having them there.
(06:33):
It might be just that you know what I alwaysdreamt of sharing that moment of having my
children with my mum.
I I wanted my mom to be there and see hergrandchildren.
And for me, that's a big deal.
But to to be empathetic about someone losingtheir mom who's a a young person And then to
(07:00):
assume that that would be there for them, Imean, they might be someone who never want
children.
So that wouldn't be there for them.
But by being curious about, you know, oh, whatis the what is the dream broken for you about,
you know, your mom not being here now?
And it would be very different to my dreambroken.
So that would be compassion.
(07:22):
I mean, it takes real courage to ask questionslike that.
And compassion takes being courageous.
Go places that you haven't been.
Whereas empathy, there's there's not realthere's no real courage in that.
In fact, it's the opposite in my, in everythingI've seen.
And I can't find any situations where beingempathetic, it shows up differently.
(07:46):
It's about staying in my comfort zone of how Ifeel about when I lost my mom.
It has me stay in my comfort zone of myexperience and relating and and having more
people around me that can relate to or that I'mrelating to them.
So because that comfort in numbers.
(08:08):
And it also it hasn't really be about me.
This might be harsh, but I see empathy almostas being run by my ego if I was to be
empathetic.
Now I'm not naturally an empathetic person.
I do think I'm compassionate.
(08:28):
And yeah, I do feel a a a pain and a burdenwhen I see things.
I actually feel very upset depending on things.
And but it's not an empathy.
It's a sadness at my almost my inability tomake a difference in some areas.
It's not because I'm feeling or trying to feelhow that person or how they would be feeling or
(08:54):
how an abused child would be feeling.
Alright.
I get I will never and can never know howanother person is feeling.
Even exactly the same experience for twodifferent people, they will feel differently
about it because they're different.
So there's also a a real arrogance to beingempathetic.
(09:19):
I mean, to think that we can be, to empathizewith another and know how they're feeling and
what they're thinking and and experience theiremotions because we've had a same or a similar
experience.
We can't.
We don't.
I had two people who lose their leg in anaccident.
(09:43):
They do not feel the same.
Now they might be able to relate to each other,but relating is different to empathizing.
One of the greatest movies I ever saw is thisguy, and he painted himself black.
Painted's the wrong word, and I can't rememberthe word that they used.
But anyway, and he lived with black skin for awhile.
(10:07):
And at the end of it, in the end of the movie,he said, I will never ever know what it's truly
like.
He said, because my skin may have appearedblack, but I always knew with the with the wash
or with, you know, when it back went back tonormal, I was I would be white, and I was
(10:29):
white.
So even someone who lived inside of, you know,the complete appearance of another, at the end,
what he came came to was he still had no ideaof what that would be like.
So empathy, there's just no situation, nothingI've read.
Because I've spent about a month now, you know,really looking at it.
(10:52):
Lots of different articles.
I keep coming back to empathy being unhealthy.
And if you really wanna take it to an extreme,and I I don't apologize if this, you know,
upsets, anyone who relates to themself as anempath.
However, I would like to give you this warning.
(11:14):
It may be a place to hide from responsibility.
You know, it doesn't have people be curiouswhen being empathetic, but also there's no
responsibility in that, you know, compassion,if to truly practice compassion, it takes
taking on responsibility for yourself, theresponsibility of looking into that other
(11:40):
person about what's gonna make the differencefor them.
What's gonna make the difference?
And then providing that.
Whereas an empath or empathy towards thatperson will just be more of that relatedness
and sit back and yeah, I get it, I get it.
And, you know, having it be about yourself howyou would how you are taking on those feelings,
(12:04):
which isn't gonna be the same for them anyway.
So I really do invite you.
If you're someone who maybe has been told bysomeone else, oh, you've got no empathy, have a
look at having no empathy.
Do they mean I have no compassion or noempathy?
Because if it's no empathy, you could take thaton and go, well, that's that's a good thing.
(12:28):
Now let's have a look at do you mean nocompassion?
But if you relate to yourself as an empath orempathetic, I I really invite you to change
your language.
You perhaps are meaning compassionate.
You perhaps are being compassionate.
(12:49):
There is there will be an element of thatthere.
Grow that.
And don't relate to yourself, like, as anempath or empathetic anymore.
I invite you to change your language.
You know me.
I'm all about language and the power and thegreat stuff it creates.
I don't know what you'd call yourself.
I'm a compo.
(13:09):
I don't think so.
Or no.
Don't even go there.
So just you know, I'm compassion I'm acompassionate person rather than I'm an empath.
Just change that language.
It will have a big, big difference to youreffectiveness as a leader.
Because straight away, people, when you'rebeing compassionate and not relating, you know,
(13:35):
as if you know someone else, as if you can haveexperienced what they've experienced, you know,
all those things that are really arrogant aboutempathy.
When you can relate to someone with compassion,the difference that that will make in your
leadership and then that person's relatednessto you is like chalk and cheese.
(13:58):
Chalk and cheese.
And look, if you do relate to yourself as anempath, then it's please look at it as being
just a word.
Alright?
I'm not trying to take away your identity.
I'm just looking at maybe the language oftaking on someone else's burden is unhealthy.
(14:21):
Whereas if you're being compassionate andyou're letting that side out of you that truly
cares for people or cares for other livingbeings, then that is healthy and that will take
you into actions that will give you fulfillmentin life.
Certainly, you are just taking on ill feelingsharsh feelings from other people and burdening
(14:42):
yourself down them, they'll turn into unhealthyways of being.
They're not yours to carry.
And you can only keep, even if we go back thebucket of water, there's only so much people
can carry before you break down earlier thanwhat nature intended you to do.
I invite you today to go and show compassionsomewhere.
(15:06):
I invite you to change any language aroundthat.
And with the compassion comes kindness.
The way I finish every podcast, be kind toyourself and others.
Thanks for listening.
See you next time.
Hello, and welcome back to the Aussie mindsetmentor.
Or if you're joining me for the first time,welcome.
Great to have you here.
Today, I'm going to be looking at empathyversus compassion.
I've heard a couple people lately and and readthings where people are almost proud to call
(00:30):
themselves an empath in that they'reempathetic.
And it's put me on a little bit of a path sincea couple of months ago listening to an
interview with a high court judge in Australia.
And basically he was one of the very few whoretired early and was mainly around, you know,
(00:53):
it's terrible.
They have to, as a judge, look at all theevidence and look at all the photos.
And when he had his own children, that led to Idon't know if it was an actual breakdown, but
anyway, he it was almost a PTSD and he steppeddown.
Great news now is he's he's he's he's backhelping children.
(01:15):
I find it very upsetting myself even justthinking about it.
But on this interview or in this interview, itwas when he was talking about part of his
healing process or getting back to where hecould be effective and make a difference, for
children was in getting the distinction betweenempathy and compassion.
(01:39):
So I've been on a little bit of a journey withthis because also speaking to someone else
who's a Buddhist, she said, yeah, they speak ofstupid compassion.
Now that's normally not a name that I wouldstupid that I would use for anything.
I think it's a little, you know, sort of makewrong or a little bit derogatory.
(02:03):
So I definitely do not want to say that anyonewith empathy and it's not even saying that
empathy is that.
I do want to have a look at that compassion issuch a wonderful thing.
And he the interview, the guy actually said,you know, compassion in the wanting the best
(02:24):
and kindest outcome for someone else.
And if you've listened to any of my podcast,you know that it's all about kindness for me.
So when I look at compassion being the kindnessin wanting to make that difference for kindness
for someone else, compassion is a wonderfulthing.
(02:45):
So it is also removed from ourselves.
So when you're compassionate and you're wantingthe best outcome for someone else, well, that's
devoid of your own beliefs.
It's devoid of, you know, what has happened toyou in the past.
You know, if you were truly wanting the bestfor someone else, you might be open to new
(03:08):
information that you might not have otherwiselooked at.
You might also act in different ways that mightbe out of character for you because they the
other person may have needs that you haven'texperienced or don't have any experience with,
or any knowledge around.
So when you are compassionate for someone,you're also bringing a curiosity.
(03:31):
Another, you know, if you listen to mypodcasts, I think curiosity is one of the
greatest characteristics a person can have.
So all of that is in compassion.
It's all around the other person.
Now looking at empathy, and this is where Ifeel they're just so different.
(03:52):
Empathy is really feeling for that otherperson.
Well, straight away, you know, inside of thatdefinition, it's just like we don't have the
right to do that.
It's not our right to feel for someone else,like, as you have those feelings for them.
It's not gonna take away.
It's not like when you're carrying two bucketsof water and you carry one for them.
(04:19):
It doesn't make you know, that would make theirload lighter.
Right?
However, we don't do that when we're beingempathetic.
Take some of those emotions and might carry itfor them, which is unhealthy or burdening for
us.
However, it doesn't make their load lighter.
If we were compassionate though and we wereunderstanding of their burden and you know we
(04:43):
were willing to to walk with them, but thedifference is you cannot cannot lighten
someone's load by taking on an emotion foryourself, which is theirs.
Which leads me to the second one.
When we're empathetic to do that, first of all,we're relating that feeling or how it might
(05:06):
feel to something that we have experienced orwe're making our own version of it to be able
to relate to it.
So if I was empathizing with someone who hadlost a father or a mother, both their parents,
right, I I could empathize with them and say,well, so have I.
(05:29):
Yeah.
Can you hear in that moment the conversationcame about me and my loss of my parents, which
would be very different to theirs.
I mean, most people as we age will have lostparents.
It's it's part of the the human process becausewe don't live forever, and our parents, by
(05:50):
virtue of them being our parents, are olderthan us.
I can empathize with them, but, really,straight away, I'm taking away from them the
very thing that if I had compassion I would begiving them.
If I had compassion I'd be listening for youknow where is the pain point for them?
(06:11):
There might be you know about the way theypassed or it might be the things they didn't
say before they passed that have them hurtingand incomplete.
It might be that they weren't there or it mightbe lots of different things are actually adding
to that pain of not having them there.
(06:33):
It might be just that you know what I alwaysdreamt of sharing that moment of having my
children with my mum.
I I wanted my mom to be there and see hergrandchildren.
And for me, that's a big deal.
But to to be empathetic about someone losingtheir mom who's a a young person And then to
(07:00):
assume that that would be there for them, Imean, they might be someone who never want
children.
So that wouldn't be there for them.
But by being curious about, you know, oh, whatis the what is the dream broken for you about,
you know, your mom not being here now?
And it would be very different to my dreambroken.
So that would be compassion.
(07:22):
I mean, it takes real courage to ask questionslike that.
And compassion takes being courageous.
Go places that you haven't been.
Whereas empathy, there's there's not realthere's no real courage in that.
In fact, it's the opposite in my, in everythingI've seen.
And I can't find any situations where beingempathetic, it shows up differently.
(07:46):
It's about staying in my comfort zone of how Ifeel about when I lost my mom.
It has me stay in my comfort zone of myexperience and relating and and having more
people around me that can relate to or that I'mrelating to them.
So because that comfort in numbers.
(08:08):
And it also it hasn't really be about me.
This might be harsh, but I see empathy almostas being run by my ego if I was to be
empathetic.
Now I'm not naturally an empathetic person.
I do think I'm compassionate.
(08:28):
And yeah, I do feel a a a pain and a burdenwhen I see things.
I actually feel very upset depending on things.
And but it's not an empathy.
It's a sadness at my almost my inability tomake a difference in some areas.
It's not because I'm feeling or trying to feelhow that person or how they would be feeling or
(08:54):
how an abused child would be feeling.
Alright.
I get I will never and can never know howanother person is feeling.
Even exactly the same experience for twodifferent people, they will feel differently
about it because they're different.
So there's also a a real arrogance to beingempathetic.
(09:19):
I mean, to think that we can be, to empathizewith another and know how they're feeling and
what they're thinking and and experience theiremotions because we've had a same or a similar
experience.
We can't.
We don't.
I had two people who lose their leg in anaccident.
(09:43):
They do not feel the same.
Now they might be able to relate to each other,but relating is different to empathizing.
One of the greatest movies I ever saw is thisguy, and he painted himself black.
Painted's the wrong word, and I can't rememberthe word that they used.
But anyway, and he lived with black skin for awhile.
(10:07):
And at the end of it, in the end of the movie,he said, I will never ever know what it's truly
like.
He said, because my skin may have appearedblack, but I always knew with the with the wash
or with, you know, when it back went back tonormal, I was I would be white, and I was
(10:29):
white.
So even someone who lived inside of, you know,the complete appearance of another, at the end,
what he came came to was he still had no ideaof what that would be like.
So empathy, there's just no situation, nothingI've read.
Because I've spent about a month now, you know,really looking at it.
(10:52):
Lots of different articles.
I keep coming back to empathy being unhealthy.
And if you really wanna take it to an extreme,and I I don't apologize if this, you know,
upsets, anyone who relates to themself as anempath.
However, I would like to give you this warning.
(11:14):
It may be a place to hide from responsibility.
You know, it doesn't have people be curiouswhen being empathetic, but also there's no
responsibility in that, you know, compassion,if to truly practice compassion, it takes
taking on responsibility for yourself, theresponsibility of looking into that other
(11:40):
person about what's gonna make the differencefor them.
What's gonna make the difference?
And then providing that.
Whereas an empath or empathy towards thatperson will just be more of that relatedness
and sit back and yeah, I get it, I get it.
And, you know, having it be about yourself howyou would how you are taking on those feelings,
(12:04):
which isn't gonna be the same for them anyway.
So I really do invite you.
If you're someone who maybe has been told bysomeone else, oh, you've got no empathy, have a
look at having no empathy.
Do they mean I have no compassion or noempathy?
Because if it's no empathy, you could take thaton and go, well, that's that's a good thing.
(12:28):
Now let's have a look at do you mean nocompassion?
But if you relate to yourself as an empath orempathetic, I I really invite you to change
your language.
You perhaps are meaning compassionate.
You perhaps are being compassionate.
(12:49):
There is there will be an element of thatthere.
Grow that.
And don't relate to yourself, like, as anempath or empathetic anymore.
I invite you to change your language.
You know me.
I'm all about language and the power and thegreat stuff it creates.
I don't know what you'd call yourself.
I'm a compo.
(13:09):
I don't think so.
Or no.
Don't even go there.
So just you know, I'm compassion I'm acompassionate person rather than I'm an empath.
Just change that language.
It will have a big, big difference to youreffectiveness as a leader.
Because straight away, people, when you'rebeing compassionate and not relating, you know,
(13:35):
as if you know someone else, as if you can haveexperienced what they've experienced, you know,
all those things that are really arrogant aboutempathy.
When you can relate to someone with compassion,the difference that that will make in your
leadership and then that person's relatednessto you is like chalk and cheese.
(13:58):
Chalk and cheese.
And look, if you do relate to yourself as anempath, then it's please look at it as being
just a word.
Alright?
I'm not trying to take away your identity.
I'm just looking at maybe the language oftaking on someone else's burden is unhealthy.
(14:21):
Whereas if you're being compassionate andyou're letting that side out of you that truly
cares for people or cares for other livingbeings, then that is healthy and that will take
you into actions that will give you fulfillmentin life.
Certainly, you are just taking on ill feelingsharsh feelings from other people and burdening
(14:42):
yourself down them, they'll turn into unhealthyways of being.
They're not yours to carry.
And you can only keep, even if we go back thebucket of water, there's only so much people
can carry before you break down earlier thanwhat nature intended you to do.
I invite you today to go and show compassionsomewhere.
(15:06):
I invite you to change any language aroundthat.
And with the compassion comes kindness.
The way I finish every podcast, be kind toyourself and others.
Thanks for listening.
See you next time.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com