#127 - Pitching & Funding Techniques Shared by a 4x Founder w/ Emma Rees - Authority in the Wild

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
First time founders need to knowhow to pitch, but no one really
teaches us how to engage in thatQ&A session, that first 30
minutes when you've got access to an investor.
Meet Mres, a full time founder across B to CB to B and
Enterprise. SAS chairwoman had deployed an
Angel investor and now a business coaching advisor.

(00:21):
If you were to take that one step further and then try and
get investment on that, I would then be asking all of those
people and stakeholders that I've built relationships with, I
would. In today's episode, we dive into
the intricacies of teaching, validating your ideas as a
founder, asking very questions as an investor, and overcoming

(00:41):
the common barriers as a female founder.
I've just proved to you that I've gone out and validated my
idea and I've spent three to four months building exactly
what I know my customers want. And I know how much their
capacity to pay is. And I know how big this problem
is and this pain is for them anddoing nothing for them is

(01:02):
costing them millions. Hey mom, at just 15 years old
you quit school and start walking with ACV to try to find
a job. What made you took that decision
back then? I would love to tell you that it
was really thought out and it was a very strategic decision,
but it definitely was not. I don't think I was getting the

(01:26):
stimulation that I wanted from school, to be honest.
And I was pushing boundaries andgetting into trouble a lot.
And actually at the time my parents were like, well, you
can't leave unless you get a job.
So I was like, OK, cool, that sounds like a good challenge.
So you know, I printed off a little one page CV with next to
nothing on it. My parents had run several

(01:47):
businesses before, like they're inter delicatessen and they had
a building company and I had done part time work for them.
So I had those on my CV and I just printed a bunch off and
just went door to door and put on my biggest smile and said are
you looking for anyone to hire and I'm looking for a job.
That's interesting. Like it's, it's unusual, right?

(02:10):
Like I hear a lot of people quitting school and so on, but
often it's in college or university, but that's actually
unengaged to literally like let's see if I can find a job.
And once that happens, like whatjob did you find and what's that
job lead you to? So the first person that would

(02:30):
take me in for a trial was a hairdressing salon.
So they were like, sure, you canstart.
I think I was maybe it was a Wednesday or a Thursday.
And I remember by the Saturday they said, hey, if you turn up
and as long as you're wearing clothes in shoes, you can start
sweeping the floor and making coffee.
So I turned up and started working on Saturday.

(02:51):
There was nothing strategic about it.
It was just I want to get out ofwhat I'm doing.
And this feels like my ticket out of it.
And if I can tell my parents haven't got a paid job, you
know, I get to do what I want todo.
It gave me some flexibility. And I think the thing I loved
about it most was the the engagement with customers.

(03:11):
So I think this job taught me some of the best customer
service skills that I'd ever learned.
The customer essentially paying your wages and the customer is
always right at that point. Yeah, it taught me a lot.
And it taught me how to read people really well.
Like, you know, does the lady want me to talk to her while I'm
washing her hair or does she just want to sit quietly and

(03:33):
read her magazine? So reading body language and
learning how to interact with people.
I didn't realise that at the time, but that would come in
handy in later years when I was trying to raise investment or
network in a room and understandwho was open to want to have a
conversation and who wasn't. Tell me more about body language
because I feel that it's such a underrated skill, how you can

(03:56):
tell someone if they want to stay quiet or they are a talker
or they are outgoing and easy tohave a conversation with them
what they're looking for when you scan their faces or body.
I think firstly, some people arereally easy to read and I, I
know I'm like this. Like I look back at some of my
recordings where I'm like coaching founders, you know, and

(04:19):
I can tell from the look on my face, I'm like, you did what, or
this or like. So I'm quite obvious.
And I guess not everyone is kindof overtly obvious with what
they're thinking and feeling. So some people are, you can read
them quite easily by their facial expressions or you know,
the rolled eye or but I think the nuanced version around this,
like let's, let's say all of a sudden we're in a room full of

(04:41):
people that we want to network with.
So as a founder, you're in a room full of investors and
founders. I think there's a few key
things. First of all, kind of looking
around the room, like are peoplelooking more open?
Are you looking at maybe three people together and they're
quite sort of closed in to each other?
Does it look welcoming? Are people laughing?

(05:02):
And mid conversation can be a lot harder to kind of, you know,
insert yourself into that conversation.
And I think the way to to then get into it is lead with
curiosity. Like if you were genuinely
interested in someone and you'reasking questions, you can always
kind of get someone talking. And if they keep giving you
back, kind of, you know, one word answers and you know, they

(05:22):
look a little bit disinterested and maybe it's time to say, hey,
it was great to meet you. I'm going to head on and meet
with other people in the networking events.
So yeah, I think they can be nuanced, but I think if you're
paying enough attention, you canfeel whether someone is warm and
inviting or someone feels a little bit closed, like they
don't want to engage as much. Absolutely.

(05:44):
And I guess it's the intersection of their facial
expression and as well, the way they answer you and so on.
Because often their face might say something, but they might be
very warm and very welcoming andengaging in the conversation, so
on. But maybe just based on
different circumstances, like maybe even the cultural part,

(06:08):
their face might be less welcoming, but their voice and
their way of engaging might be, oh, this person is actually way
warmer than I expected. And indeed, by their answer, we
can tell a lot if they are welcoming you in, in that, in
that space. And Speaking of that, you, you
walk the the rooms with the likes of Microsoft and Ventures

(06:30):
and so on. So you've been put in those type
of situation, your worst situation in which people try to
picture their ideas or they are wanting to network and so on.
How you differentiate from thosethat really have something to
offer or they really have an amazing idea behind their start
up from those that are just testing the waters and they're

(06:54):
like, I just want to do this because I heard this call.
The, the thing that jumps out tome, I think when to first of
all, to start having those conversations, it's either
networking or it's at events or it's at a dinner.
So we think, you know, firstly, putting yourself out there.
And I guess some people do feel like they're coming with an

(07:17):
objective, like they're there toeither, you know, pitch you for
investments or yeah, they, they have an objective.
You can feel that as well with the questions.
And they kind of beeline for, you know, they've already got
the the hit list of who they want to speak to and they'll
make a beeline for them. And I think it's the deeper you
get into a conversation and the more questions you ask.

(07:39):
So in the example that you asked, like actually with the
founder, if they're kind of justpitching a new idea or they're
like genuinely there as an investor to be interested.
I think again, it comes back to the point I made earlier.
I think leading with curiosity and listening more than you're
speaking. There's so many things that you
can learn from that. Like, you know, are they a newer
founder? Are they a first time founder

(08:00):
that's really trying to find their ways and they're just
exploring things? Or, you know, have you got a
hardcore Angel that you've managed to sort of have a
conversation with and they're actively looking to deploy
capital And you're not going to find that out from their
LinkedIn profile or their blog or their newsletter.
You're going to have to lead with curiosity and ask
questions. And I think the the easiest way

(08:21):
to understand what their objective is, is question after
question. And asking good questions will
give you the answers that you need.
And I've always found that I think not just asking one
question, but then diving a little bit deeper into that.
So really listening as opposed to, you know, and I used to do
this as well, I think someone would say something and then I'd

(08:43):
want to relate to them. So I would tell a story that
related to the thing that they just said for us to have common
ground to connect on. But really, the way to connect
deeper is to ask them another question.
And indeed, that's an entirely different skill.
And can you share some of the questions that you ask founders
that can reveal those insights that no one else can extract

(09:07):
from them? I really like to understand what
drives a founder. So if I put myself in the
position of an Angel investor and I really want to understand
the conviction behind this founder.
So I might ask them, you know, what brought you to solve or
want to solve this problem. Typically I find founders build
things they wished existed or they experienced the problem and

(09:29):
there wasn't a solution for it and then they ended up building
on the back of that or it's likeimpact driven and they they
really, that's their their purpose.
That that's the fuel that the fuel to their fire.
So asking them how they came to this problem, then sort of
asking them about, you know, their career path that they had

(09:51):
before this. Sometimes I find it quite
telling when I'll ask a founder like, you know, being an
entrepreneur is not the easiest Rd. it's not the highest
salaries. It's definitely the the more
stressful path. So why would you leave your
particularly when I find founders have come from
corporate, like, why would you leave your paying job to do

(10:12):
this? And that's kind of taking up one
step deeper because the opportunity costs that they're
in front of there is huge, right?
Someone has to be really motivated and passionate to give
up a really nice high paying jobthat's got good holidays and got
good security and, you know, good pension and all those
things for the future to like really jump into something
that's, you know, the most riskyasset class that we have.

(10:34):
The number of start-ups that fail are extraordinary.
And for someone to do that and understand their underlying
passion and motivation helps me build conviction in the founder.
Because when the going gets tough, I want to know that that
individual is still driven to get up and solve those problems.
In the event when you manage to find that, because often they

(10:55):
may have the best idea possible,but if they have a particular
reason why they are doing it andthey're being driven by that,
it's much more easier to see that founder succeed rather than
just, you know, few months or years later failing.
And apart from that, what other traits or characteristics or

(11:17):
maybe upbringing the founders must have in order to increase
their chances of success? I think this is a great question
and I have thought about this a lot.
I've often been asked like what do I think the skills were that
kind of led me, which would seemlike insanity, to go and build 4
startups and I'm building another one at the moment as
well. So like what sort of insanity

(11:38):
leads someone to want to do that?
I think, you know, for me, both one of the skills that I think
you can learn as well, it's likegrit at determination and
resilience. I think, you know, the
resilience to just keep failing and seeing that as part of the
journey and seeing that every failure can actually lead you

(12:02):
into a path that you didn't expect where you can find the
answer as opposed to trying to be perfect and deliver a perfect
product all the time and not pushing out until it's perfect.
And I think in the beginning, I struggled with that as well.
Like I wanted everything to be perfect before I like put it in
front of the customer or, you know, that fear of judgement or

(12:23):
maybe no one's going to buy my product or like my product.
But actually the founders that do that and do that quickly, I,
I believe builds more successfulbusinesses because they're truly
listening to the customer. They're building for the
customer and they're constantly iterating.
So they're like, this isn't working.
I've kind of failed at this, butwhat is that leading me to?

(12:44):
And that in itself builds resilience and it builds that
grit in someone. You know, it's not how many
times you fall down, it's how many times you get back up
again. And I think that that's so
important. And determination I think is a
trait as well. That actually for me, when
anyone ever said to me, you totally couldn't see that or no

(13:08):
way would you do that. That was like kerosene to my
fire. I was like, I'll show you.
I think as I've matured I've, I've lost that a little bit
more. But definitely when I was
younger I was like, don't tell me I can't do it.
It's funny that I, I not only can resonate with this, but I
know a lot of people that are being driven by that and even

(13:31):
huge names that we kind of see around nowadays like Alex or
Mozi, It has this a bringing story with his father and so on.
And I, we are pushed by that indeed.
And going back a bit soon, I guess I'm super curious about
your approach to understanding customers because you mentioned
that and it seems so logic and everyone knows that we need to

(13:55):
listen to, to the feedback. We need to listen to what
they're having to say, but oftenpeople don't know how to extract
that information and not only how to ask, but sometimes even
how to find them if they are maybe in the testing phase or
validation phase. And if you can't break it down,
let's take it as the validation phase where you're naturally

(14:18):
having yet customers. How you get those first
customers to get the feedback orhow you find people that might
be interested or might have the problem that you solve in order
to get those insights from them?Yeah, this is a great one.
This comes up a lot as well. When I'm working with founders
and I push this so much, I come across so many founders that are

(14:39):
like straight out trying to hit the investment meetings and it's
like we need to, there's a precursor to this.
Let's take a few steps back and let's make sure that you're
validating your problem first, because that helps you de risk,
that helps the investor see thatyou're de risking this as well.
So I, I feel like it's this precursor step that lots of
founders and maybe you're right,maybe they don't do it because

(15:00):
there's no clear framework or guideline for it.
So I, I love this as a topic. Firstly, I just want to point
out that I think it's really different for different types of
businesses. Like if you are building AB to C
business, I think it's a very different way to validate the
product versus an enterprise SASsolution.

(15:20):
So we'll do both because I thinkmaybe that's helpful as well.
I think on B to CI believe for me, because I've done both.
I believe for me personally, I found that easier to build
conviction and validation quicker than it did with
enterprise SAS. But they both have their pros
and cons. So if I was to set up AB to C

(15:40):
Business Today, the first thing that I would probably do is use
AI to spin up a website, make itreally clear with what I'm doing
and maybe have a free download and a sign up wait list.
So push it out. I'd be pushing it out on
LinkedIn or Instagram or link oror Facebook, whatever, wherever
your customers are would be the place that I would push this.

(16:04):
And I would try and get as many free sign ups to actually
understand people interested in this.
Like how many emails? You know, people don't want to
hand out that e-mail all the time, right?
But if you're giving them maybe a, you know, the 10 things you
should do before whatever problem you're solving, that
could be a great way first. And then I would push it to my

(16:26):
friends and ask them to push it out.
If I was promoting it on Instagram, then maybe I would do
some paid ads as well, like keepit really low.
But I would definitely try and push it out if it was a physical
product that I was trying to sell, like AB to C product, I'd
probably go back to old school and walk the streets, like try
and stop people and say, hey, would you test my product?

(16:47):
What do you think about this? Like the only catch with that is
I think sometimes people find itdifficult to give bad feedback
if they don't like it, particularly with a stranger.
But you know, I've seen people do some really creative stuff
where they walk around with a microphone.
They're like, hey, with someone's testing these two
products, do you want to try this and tell me what you think
about it? You don't have to tell them that
you're the founder. Like, what do you think of these

(17:09):
two different things? Because all of that is data and
validation for you to come back to the drawing board and go, do
I need more? Or is this enough to kind of
keep going? And particularly with like AI
tools today, like you can prettyeasily knock up a landing page,
you know, a clickable product, you can vibe code something

(17:30):
that's kind of got it as a minimum viable product to get in
the hands of people to get feedback.
So I think there's lots of ways that you could do that to build
conviction B to B an enterprise SAS I think is harder just
because getting access to those customers can be more difficult,
right? If you think about the

(17:51):
stakeholders or the ideal customer profile, you know, it
might be an entire team of people within a large corporate.
But how I would go about that isI would start talking about the
pain on LinkedIn and I would make sure that I position myself
as an an authority in the pain and the solution.

(18:12):
But largely, I would talk about the pain and I would talk about
how I've solved this with customers, even if it was in an
analogue way first before building a tech product around
it. I would potentially try and do
some consulting work in this space so I can get people to be
paying for me to advise them on how to solve this problem, even
if it's in an analogue way. And then take their problem and

(18:36):
suggest solutions and start to take that validation in terms of
what features am I going to build for the product.
I would do that too. I would make a list of like 200
companies that were my target companies and then I would start
outreaching them on LinkedIn. And again, I wouldn't outreach
and ask them to use my product. I would outreach them and tell
them that maybe I've got a free report that could help them

(19:00):
solve their problem. Or I'll just give them 30
minutes of consulting and tell them how they can solve this
problem. Or I can save them money or I
can increase their efficiency totry and get time from theirs to
then take them through a customer interview.
If you were to take that one step further and then try and
get investment on that, I would then be asking all of those

(19:20):
people and stakeholders that I've built relationships with is
to, I would show them my clickable product.
Maybe it's not live yet, but it's a clickable product again,
so they can kind of get in and see what it feels like.
I would ask them if they wanted to be early adopters of this
product, you know, it could, again, depending on what it's
USP is, and would they give me aletter of intent that if I was

(19:42):
to raise investment, would they be one of my first customers?
Now I know that that some investors say that's not really
validation. But if I came back to an
investor and said in the last three months, I've spoken to,
you know, 150 of my ideal customer profile companies of a
list of 200 that I made and I got access to those

(20:03):
stakeholders. I have the user interviews and I
have letter of intent to demonstrate intent to buy my
product. That is showing incredible
conviction to an investor. I've just proved to you.
That I've gone out and validatedmy idea and I've spent three to
four months building exactly what I know my customers want.

(20:23):
And I know how much their capacity to pay is.
And I know how big this problem is.
And this pain is for them and doing nothing for them is
costing them millions. And I think that builds not only
conviction in you as a founder. Because when I start having
those conversations with investors, all of a sudden my
confidence is through the roof because I know this is a problem

(20:44):
and I know that people want thissolution.
And I think that confidence thenoods to your like, oozes
confidence to the investors as well that they're like, OK,
you've done your homework, you've done your research and
you're getting that validation, which helps me de risk my
investment. Absolutely.
Because if you're just pitching without having those insights

(21:06):
and those conversation and so on, not only truly believe you
that you have a valid idea plus asking for money, I think it's a
smart way to say, oh, you actually believe in this.
Let's see if you actually going to invest anyone.
If it's a small investment, but having that initial money
validation, it's also very powerful in my opinion at least.

(21:29):
And even for, I will say for forB2C products, if you're thinking
about it like of course, dependson the product.
But if you're building somethingand you ask them to put a
deposit down before the product launch so they can actually see
it, Oh, they're just believing in it.
Or they're, they put their moneywhere the mouth is.

(21:52):
Right. And going back to that a bit
before we dive into the B to B more when it comes to B to CI
found sometimes very hard to find where they're actually
spending their time because nowadays the behaviour, it's
scattered. Even if you're think that, oh,

(22:13):
here's a Facebook group on that particular niche or another
platform group that are spendingtime discussing that, I found
that sometimes even if you're active there, the message
doesn't reach the audience because platforms favorites,
they prefer the paid advertisingor pay prefer they're basically

(22:34):
don't have reach and you'd. So it's not that easy to find
that validation. Do you have any insights on
what's the best way to find yourtribe basically?
Yeah, it can be challenging. And I I totally relate to what
you're saying as well. I think particularly where users
are sitting, there's so many different, there's so many

(22:56):
different platforms actually, it's really fragmented.
I mean, I do find Reddit a greatsource sometimes when you want
to find the micro groups of people.
And I find that that can be quite active on the, the
everyone's quite active in responding.

(23:17):
So I have found in the past thatthat's worked quite well,
whether it's the calibre of individuals that you want.
But I think actually pushing outtalking about the problem or how
has anyone solved this before orthis has been a real problem for
me. Like maybe it's a story around
how your origin story as a founder, like actually you
experience this pain. Are there other people out there
that you're actually solving this for?
Do they want to come on as a user group?

(23:38):
And depending on how intense that pain is for that person,
like you will find them. And actually if you're saying
that you've got a solution to it, they will come to you.
So I think, but I mean it's beenyears since I've done B to CI
think you know, my last sort of almost 10 years, seven years has
been like enterprise SAS. So I think a lot of maybe some

(24:01):
of my knowledge is a little bit outdated now on on B to C or
maybe it never changes. Yeah, we we trade it actually.
Yeah, indeed. It's a still, still a valid
place because especially thanks to its quote UN quote privacy
when it comes to not showing your real name or whatever,
people are more willing to answer questions or share their

(24:24):
opinions or even the like privately tests on products and
so on. And I, I think it's still like
very, very well. And I see people a lot,
especially right now they push something to product content and
so on for, for the B2C space, they are going to Reddit to ask

(24:44):
for validation or see if people are interested and so on.
So I still that still works well.
But when it comes to B2B, how doget do you get in the right
rooms? Because I feel like that might
be the, I won't say secret sauce, but the right way.
Maybe I'm wrong, please tell me.I mean, I find LinkedIn the best

(25:05):
way to get access to corporate people depending on whether your
ICP is, you know, someone in themarketing department or is it
someone in procurement or someone in finance.
Actually being able to list first of all the companies
that's your target company and then who is your ICP within that

(25:26):
company and then tracking them down on on LinkedIn.
I find that my biggest hack. So even when I want to make
maybe a slightly unrelated example, so I've for this
summer, I've come out to Perth WAustralia where I'm from, and I
haven't lived here for about 20 years, but I wanted to meet

(25:48):
people in the ecosystem. I wanted to meet founders and
investors and angels. So I used Chachi PT and Gemini
to draft me a list of the top 50people in Perth W Australia that
are in those categories of people.
You know, varying responses. Some of the links weren't right,
but actually it pretty much gaveme a solid list of people.
And then one by one, I went through and tracked them on

(26:09):
LinkedIn. I created a Excel spreadsheet
for myself, categorized them into which category they fell
into, and then systematically, Ijust spent 20 minutes every day
when I'd wake up and have my coffee, I'd get on LinkedIn and
I would go back through their posts and even if they hadn't
posted for sort of three to six months, I'd find their Last
Post. I'd go in, I'd read the post,

(26:30):
I'd leave a, I'd leave a really thoughtful comment.
I would never use AI for commenting, but something really
thoughtful or ask them a question or celebrate their win.
I would do that a couple of times.
I'd pick off a few people. I'd set my timer so I don't
spend any more time than that. Or by the time I finish my
coffee the following day, I'd send them a connection request
with no message in there becauseI found that the conversion rate

(26:54):
is higher on that. And then when they accept my
connection request, I go back inand say, hey, thanks for
connecting with me. This is who I am, I'm coming
out, I'd really like to meet you.
And that works incredibly well. And I think the reason it works
incredibly well, and this also works for B to B is I've taken
the time to find out what they do.
I've taken the time to read whatthey've written about and

(27:16):
they've been passionate. I've also been thoughtful in
engaging with content that they've pushed out.
And typically when I ask them for a meeting, it's like I'd
love to have a meeting and discuss this or I would love to
share some of my insights and something else.
So I'm I feel like I'm giving before I'm asking for something
from people. And I found that that ethos has

(27:40):
got me to meet with people both when I was running deployed and
now in this example that I shareis people then are more welcome
and warm to go. Actually, I really like what
you're talking about. And I make sure that my LinkedIn
profile is up to date and talking about what I'm doing or
the problem I'm solving because that's, you know, showcasing who

(28:00):
I am before they meet me. And I've had great success from
that. But it does take discipline and
it does take a little bit of consistency every day, but you
can get access to people that, you know, I've managed to get
access to like Coos and CF OS who were our target audience
last time of multinational companies that I thought would

(28:23):
never reply to my message. And sometimes they took a little
bit longer to warm up. And that's the power, right?
Because I'm like, you know, if Ireally want to talk to you.
And I think that you're right. And I mean, I think it also
means you need to spend a littlebit of time curating the list.
But now with AI, like literally me and AI for 5 minutes and I

(28:46):
had a list of 50 people, all I had to do every day was like a
little bit of engagement every day for about two weeks.
It's such a superpower for founders.
So that would be my top hack. Yeah, and it's a good one
because LinkedIn is still underrated.
Like people are still thinking that it's that space where
people are searching for jobs. And it might be true for some,

(29:06):
but it's more than that. You can actually meet amazing
individuals and finding ways to to get in touch with them,
especially if it's you're in your situation, like you are in
a big hub or you are in a big city with where you can actually
meet them in person. That face to face connection
will always be the online interactions.

(29:29):
But even if you don't have that chance, still online can work
really well. But you, you mentioned something
there that we need to write it big on the wall, like give
before you ask because otherwisejust speech indirectly asking
for, for something. It's, it's not going to work.
Probably you'll be ignored and never hear back from that

(29:52):
individual. And apart from that, because I I
feel like there are a lot of lessons that you had by building
so many start-ups and are working on a new one, What's
something that often is not sharing the space that you
learn? I think maybe so like the give
example that you've just talked about, I remember when someone

(30:14):
first told me that and I think it was like a start up advisor
that I'd had in the beginning. I didn't where I was building my
first company in London. I didn't have a network.
I didn't you know, I didn't growup there.
I didn't know anyone. So I felt like I was building
from scratch and a start up mentor had said to me, listen,
you need to give value to peoplefirst before they will, you

(30:37):
know, want to be in your networkand want to start introducing
you to their network as well. And people can be really closed
off. So, you know, always be
graceful, like always turn up ontime, like always be curious.
Always give rather than take, you know, make people feel
important. Lead with curiosity, like you
know that famous saying, like people will always remember how
you make them feel. That is so true.

(30:59):
And they're the people that are memorable.
But I think another hack on the back of that was, oh, sorry,
first before I run off my I'd said to my mentor, well, what
can I give? How can I add value?
Like I'm busy building a product.
I don't know what I'm doing. And they were like, you might be

(31:20):
able to introduce them to someone in your network or maybe
you've done a recent report on something that could be
valuable. Maybe while you've been building
your problem, you've uncovered adata set on how many people
experienced this problem and a small case study and how you've,
in our case, we were saving customers millions.

(31:40):
A small case study around that, that you would like to share
some of the examples of this that you feel that they could
probably take and do on their own.
But actually it was giving something.
And then just recently I was on they included VC program and the
key to the founder, she was all about give, give, give.
And again, some of the young VCswould be like, well, what can we

(32:01):
give? You know, we're so young in our
career, what would can we add that's valuable?
And she would tell people to pick a topic that they were also
interested in and go and research it.
Go spend an afternoon or a Saturday afternoon or a couple
of hours researching it and thenride a deep dive.
You know, 1500, maybe 2000 wordswith 1500 words.

(32:23):
Pull in all the relevant information that you thought was
really insightful and curate that.
Now, anyone who's talking about that topic or anyone who's
interested in that topic would probably love to read your deep
dive because you've now spent hours digesting information.
You're mastering that information and you're sharing
it to someone in a curated version that they can spend 5

(32:45):
minutes reading and they now know all the latest start-ups in
that space. They know where the investment's
going. Like you've basically done what
a research analyst would do and curated.
Now obviously I know with AI we can sort of, you know, speed
that up and do more deep research, but you're still
adding a human element into it and a wrapper around it.
Now sharing that with someone tosay, hey, I noticed you're

(33:07):
talking about this topic all thetime.
I've just done this deep dive. I think you would find this
interesting and as a kicker you could share them the deep dive
while it's in draft and say I'd love to get your thoughts on
this. I might want to quote you in
this before I push this live. Not only now are you creating
content for that individual, it's their topic.

(33:28):
You've also become a bit of an expert in it because you just
spent 4 hours learning about a topic that excites you.
I mean, that feels like such a win, win and so generous.
Who's going to say no to that? Yeah, exactly.
And especially because you involve them, right.
People want to share their opinions, they want to be seen
and heard and so on. And if you ask them to

(33:50):
contribute to, to that piece of content, it's much more easier
for them to see us as often if you just push it like, oh,
here's the thing that I build. And you might find it useful,
But without asking them that, that additional thing, like
share your thoughts here becauseyou're a valuable expert in the
field or, or whatever, they'll be much more likely to, to say

(34:13):
yes to that. That's, that's a powerful 1.
Apart from that, you wanted to mention something?
Oh yes, I think the other underrated thing is sometimes
complimenting someone on something that resonated in
something that they've written as a way to get access to a
meeting. So if you don't have something
that you can give, you haven't done the deep dive, you know,

(34:34):
maybe you're trying to meet withloads of investors if they have
newsletters or blogs or anythingwhere they're sort of publishing
content that they've written about.
And I don't mean doing this insincerely, like finding
something and going, hey, I lovethis one comment that you said
when you don't, it doesn't really resonate with you.
Actually take the time to read some of their stuff and then

(34:55):
writing back to them and saying,hey, I was just reading your
post on XY and Z. This really resonated with me
because give your example. Thank you for writing about
that. Or it's unique because I haven't
read about that anywhere else. You seem to be a leading voice
in this, and I'm solving in thisspace exactly what you were

(35:15):
saying before. Could we have a meeting?
So I think actually sharing compliments where you feel
they're valid is such a great way because sometimes we don't
stop to tell people, hey, that thing that you did, I really
loved it, or it was really insightful or really resonated.
And I think when there's so muchcontent out there all the time
and our attention span so short,taking the time to do that to

(35:38):
someone, they'll remember you for that.
And on that particular note, I'dlike to compliment you for the
work that you're doing to elevate women in tech, how women
can overcome those barriers thatare still there for them in
order to become founders. So I think firstly, like there
are the language that we use is really important.

(36:01):
I remember the first time I was referred to as like an under
recognised founder or underrepresented founder.
I was like, oh, OK, you know, what does that actually mean?
And I really like the term. I really like the term
underestimated because I think there's lots of different
minority groups. It's not just women per SE, but

(36:24):
actually under recognised means that we're just not recognised
as opposed to underrepresented because I meet and speak to
female founders all the time. I don't think that there's a
problem with representation. I think we're everywhere but
we're under recognised because they're not getting the funding.
So one of the first things that I like to talk about when

(36:46):
incubators or accelerators or funds talk about, you know, we
support minority groups actuallylet's talk about them as under
recognised or underestimated. I think it's a much nicer word
to define, to define us. So I don't think there's a
barrier to underestimated groupsgetting into start-ups.

(37:11):
I think the real problem is getting funding and capital into
the hands of underestimated founders.
And largely that problem is because VCs, angels as well, but
more VCs, they patent match and because we're already not
getting the funding, then we haven't built enough patents for

(37:34):
them to kind of invest in that. Unless they're proactively
putting money into. Let's take female founders as
the the group that we're going to talk about here.
Unless they're actively putting money into it or making sure
that they are, you know, educating themselves on the
unconscious bias that they may be facing when they're making

(37:55):
those investments. I think it's a really difficult
problem that we all face at the moment.
And I think the ways to get around it is either have funds
that are focused on this, Angel groups are focused on it.
There's plenty in the UK and Europe that are actually Angel
syndicates focused on investing in companies that have 51%

(38:15):
ownership or at least one femalefounder in the founding team.
Initiatives to make sure that capital's flowing.
Government initiatives, you know, maybe it's non dilutive
funding grants. Yeah, I mean, it's a problem the
the number hasn't moved in a decade.

(38:37):
And of the percentage that goes to funding to female founders.
So 3% of funding goes out to allfemale founded teams.
There's more to mixed teams, which is, you know, better.
We are seeing some progress there, but all female founded
teams only get 3% of global funding and it hasn't changed in
about a decade. Yeah, it's disappointing, but I

(39:00):
think I think we are starting tosee more impact and more change.
And I think there's a couple of reasons for that.
I think we're getting more diversity of people who are
writing checks, so whether that's Angel founders.
So there's more women that are now deploying capital, their own
money. We are seeing more women in VC.
So they're at the decision making table and I think there's

(39:23):
a lot of noise around it. And certain countries like the
UK, Innovate UK did this initiative to invest in female
founders. So I think we're seeing more
initiatives to make sure that capital's getting into the right
hands. But I don't think it's, I don't
think it's enough because the change is not happening fast
enough. And I, you know, I think we're
going to need a lot of people tohelp solve this problem.

(39:44):
Yeah, absolutely. Because the more people are
involved and and the same time, the more people are aware of
maybe, let's hope some investorsare listening to us.
Now. Unfortunately, often it comes
from inside, right? Like there are some maybe
limiting beliefs there that theyare facing and they are
reluctant to invest in the more diverse startups.

(40:08):
And can you tell them what they should look into?
Because often they might miss onamazing opportunities if they
don't invest. There are do you believe there
are certain limiting behaviours or limiting beliefs they have
that are preventing them to to trust more?
Yeah, I think it's a really difficult one because a lot of

(40:31):
the bias is unconscious. So if you're not aware of your
own biases that are coming up, you, you're just fundamentally
not aware of it, which makes it difficult to change.
First of all, I would say to, soif we had investors listening to
this, first of all, I'd say let's have a look at your
portfolio. How much diversity is already in
your portfolio? If there's not much, why is that

(40:53):
the case? I have had investors come to me
and want access to better deal flow of female founders because
I'm coaching, I'm working with alot of them.
So they're like, do you have access to early stage female
founders, which is great. So many of them are proactively
looking for diverse investments,but it's not really the deal fro

(41:13):
problem. I think it's, well, sorry, it is
a deal flow, flow problem from the case of where are they
finding, are they going to the right networking groups?
Are they putting themselves out there where female founders are
hanging out? Are they joining female founders
syndicates? Actually, one of our investors
in our last round at Deployed came through as a institutional

(41:34):
investor, but found me first through an Angel group where he
was wanting to invest in female founders.
He saw me there also invested asan Angel and as an institution
as institutional investor. But he was proactively joining
calls where female founders werepitching.
So he was being exposed to more diversity and actually he could
see his pattern matching was starting to change because he

(41:57):
was seeing that actually these female founders are building
incredible businesses and you know, the metrics and the
traction that they've got is incredible.
I want to back this business. I think one of the other biggest
problems is actually designing the right questions.
So Dana Kantz did a paper and a research article on female

(42:21):
founders get asked prevention questions, whereas male founders
get asked promotion questions. So they took these
transcriptions of a Dragon's Denstyle pitch where basically they
took all the questions asked to both male and female founders
that were pitching on stage. And they noticed a pattern that
all the female founders were asked.
How are you going to prevent theloss of my money if I invest in

(42:41):
you? So what are you doing to prevent
customer churn? Like what about if competitors
come to the market? All these questions that
immediately put anyone on a defence position because you're
having to defend your start up and your position, whereas the
male founders were asked, you know, how good could your
customer retention be and what other markets could you expand

(43:03):
into and what if you raise more money?
So they were all like positive promotion questions.
Now, if you're having a conversation like that, you know
that's going to feel like we're really vibing and you know,
we're talking about all of the upside and you know, the
potential of my start up that's putting that individual and that
founder in two very different psychological positions, right?

(43:23):
So what I think we need to do iseducate investors on what type
of questions are you asking? Do you understand if you're
asking a prevention and promotion question, are you
enabling the founder to answer aquestion or are you constraining
them and putting them in a defensive position?

(43:44):
I'm not saying that you should ask one over the other.
I think that everyone should be asked a balanced set of those
questions. But if you don't understand what
type of question you're asking, then you can't design the
question to be better. So I think if you started with
what type of answer do I want from this founder?

(44:04):
Like what do I want to know? And then you design your
question in the right way the minute that you're having a
conversation with someone. And if you're designing your
questions that are helping that conversation free flow and
creating psychological safety inthat founder, then actually
we're going to have a more honest, transparent conversation
around the business. And that's a win, win for

(44:26):
everybody. Yeah, and such 'cause if you
actually not just go on a particular route and you'll
diversify your questions, it's much more easier to to actually
have a better picture about thatstart up.
And still, if, if a founder is found in that situation, in, in

(44:47):
investors throughout them, the, the defensive questions and the
prevention questions, if you want to turn this into an even
more practical review, this is actually really practical.
But for the founders themselves.Now if they found themselves in
that situation, how they can better prepare in order not to

(45:07):
be, to feel in power rather than, Oh my God, I need to
defend myself right now. Yeah, absolutely.
And there is totally ways aroundthis.
So when I was pitching in my forthe last rounds, I noticed this
was coming up a lot. I tracked everything.
I tracked every question I was ever asked.

(45:28):
I had AI transcribers on most ofthe calls and I would listen
back to how I answered those questions.
Then what I did is I collated all of the questions into
sections. And realistically, when you
think about it, there's only really ten categories that
investors will ask you, you know, problem solution, go to
market, team, charging model, market size.

(45:49):
So there's about 10 categories. And you could work with AI on
this now. But basically what I did is
build a blueprint for founders where I was like, OK, let's look
at all the questions that investors could ask in that
category. And they might be slightly
nuanced, but then they're not going to be an infinite amount
of questions. There's a limited amount of
questions on each category. And then I will work with the

(46:12):
founders to go, OK, what is the best response to that question?
Let's try again. Let's write that down.
So then we would build an FAQ. And every time I say to
founders, every week you sit down and whether you're
recording yourself or you're working with your Co founder,
you're like, ask me that question.
And then you respond. And actually the most, the best

(46:35):
pitching that I've ever done is when I've been the most prepared
is when I've been asked all those questions.
It's when I know the answer, I know my business inside out.
And knowing that and knowing my responses naturally builds
confidence. And I think that's the way of
getting around it because not only am I signalling to that

(46:55):
investor that I know my businessinside out, you could challenge
me on anything. And I even if I don't, I haven't
started implementing the answer.I know what I'm going to try
first to solve that problem, even if I haven't done it
already. That shows that I know where my
strengths and weaknesses are, where my gaps are, where I'm
going to put my effort, what I'mgoing to try.

(47:16):
It also shows that I'm thinking outside the box and that I'm,
I'm on it, right? There's, there's no stone
unturned to take this business to the next level.
And that builds conviction and confidence in, in investors as
well and in the founder. So that's what I tell female
founders to do. I'm like write those questions
down and I think this is a real USP and something I talk about a

(47:42):
lot on LinkedIn. There is so many places that
teach us how to pitch, which is great.
I think we need that first time founders need to know how to
pitch, but no one really teachesus how to engage in that Q&A
session, that first 30 minutes when you've got access to an
investor, it's a high stakes conversation.

(48:02):
There's a power dynamic asymmetry because you're asking
for money and they're deciding where they give them money.
Everything about that is so stress inducing that if you're
turning up to that pitch withoutpractising the Q&A part, which
is really where you start to engage with someone, you know,
just turning up and doing a 10 minute like, ha, here's my
slides, I'm delivering a perfectpitch, I'm hitting all the

(48:24):
notes. That's great.
But the real conversation happens when you get into that
Q&A, and that's where the power is for founders.
And that's a real gap. And that's what I educate
founders on all the time. You practice that, you know it
inside out and no question will throw you off.
You can tell I'm like really passionate about this.

(48:44):
Yeah, that's, that's what I wanted to say.
And what I also wanted to say isthat I, I hope a lot of female
founders are watching or listening to us right now And
they resonate a lot because I'm sure they are in those situation
that they, they truly don't knowhow to prepare themselves for

(49:06):
that Q&A session. And not only that, but they
might face other struggles and so on.
And I love you to tell them where they can reach out to you
in order to get that extra push that the help that most of us
needs in order to succeed and inorder to breakthrough the
barriers that we have there. Yeah, and we all do need that

(49:27):
help, right, To get us started. So I post prolifically about
this on LinkedIn as well. And I'm always really active in
my DM. So please reach out to me on
LinkedIn. I post about bias a lot.
I post about framing questions. I try and share all of my
knowledge openly as well. So that's definitely the best

(49:48):
place to get me. And I just want to give one
small tip. So if you ever come across that
question when you don't know theanswer as well, having a like a
statement line where it's like that is a really great question.
I thought about that. But to go into the answer now, I

(50:10):
think it wouldn't do it justice.So what I would love to ask is
permission to follow up with either an e-mail or a full, full
deep dive into how we plan on solving this problem.
And I'm really glad you pointed it out.
But in the time that we have today in our first meeting, I
don't think I could give that question a really justified

(50:30):
answer. So you're taking a placeholder
the a either buys you time to come back to a really
challenging question. And also, if you have a question
that you haven't thought about, that's great because you've got
another one for your FAQs and it's also giving you a hook to
re engage with that investor again.
So that's my biggest trip trip. That's my biggest tip to any

(50:53):
female founder. If you get those questions, have
that sort of statement ready to go.
Lovely. Thank you so much for sharing
that. And Speaking of sharing, you
just walked the streets and you met young Emma.
She just told her parents that she wants to stop going to

(51:14):
school, but the problem is that you just have one minute with
her. What would you tell her?
Keep going, dream big and whenever anyone tells you you
can't do it, just run towards that thing.
That's powerful because often it's all it takes, right?
Like if you dream big enough andyou don't stop and you don't

(51:37):
listen to naysayers and believe so much in yourself, you're
unstoppable. Thank you so much, Emma, for
sharing that and for sharing allyour insights that I truly
believe those listening can apply for real in their founder
career and start building those amazing solutions that we all
need. Because often founders are

(51:59):
underrated. They are.
They have this power to solve real life problems to their
creativity is to, to their determination to their grid.
And as you said, resilience. And we need that.
We need that. We need more founders.
We need more amazing solutions because we all face different
challenges. And yeah, thanks to people like

(52:19):
you, we have the guidance as well for for them to succeed.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Thanks for having me, Gabe.

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#127 - Pitching & Funding Techniques Shared by a 4x Founder w/ Emma Rees

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