September 30, 2025 • 48 mins
🟪 Join 500+ Smart Entrepreneurs ➤ https://www.gabemarusca.com and learn each week for free, how to stop chasing leads, serve clients longer & enjoy freedom doing what you love, without burning out or breaking down.
In this episode, I chat with Peter Sorgenfrei, a founder and CEO coach who created six companies across three countries.
Peter explains how chasing status and external validation nearly destroyed his health and forced his body to shut down completely.
With clients in 13 countries, he shares his Whole Human Approach that helps leaders stay true to themselves both at work and home.
We discuss removing toxic relationships, setting boundaries with family members, and why most people live their entire careers on autopilot.
We also explore the communication strategies that save founder relationships and the principles Peter uses to reject lucrative opportunities that don't align with his values. Join us as we talk through practical steps to stop chasing other people's definitions of success and build a life that actually serves you.
🟪 Timestamps
(00:00) Introducing Peter Sorgenfrei
(01:24) The Trap of Labels and Titles
(04:47) Recognizing Autopilot and Stress
(06:36) Improving Sleep and Daily Routines
(10:16) Aligning Actions with Values
(13:38) Navigating Family and Friend Relationships
(25:41) Effective Communication Strategies
(27:29) Understanding the Whole Human Concept
(31:18) Finding Time for Self-Reflection
(35:06) The Power of the Subconscious Mind
(38:44) Living by Personal Principles
(45:08) Connect with Peter Sorgenfrei
🟪 Connect with Peter Sorgenfrei
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sorgenfrei
- Website: https://www.petersorgenfrei.com
🟪 Connect with Gabe Marusca
- Website: https://www.gabemarusca.com
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@gabemarusca
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabemarusca/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gabemarusca/
- X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gabemarusca
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/maruscagabe/
- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@gabemarusca
Until Next Week,
Pura Vida!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We can remove ourselves from situations that are not healthy
for us. You have a choice even with
that. Meet Bitter Sorgan Fry, the
founder and CEO coach who created six companies across
three countries. For many of us, we chase wealth,
title, status not for ourselves,but for external validation.
(00:20):
Today, Peter coach leaders around the world in his Whole
Human approach, a method on which he has a book coming in
2036 called The Whole Human Leader, How to Lead Without
Losing Yourself. I found myself one morning not
being able to get out of bed physically.
I was afraid that it was a braintumor or something terrible like
that, but it turned out just to be stress.
(00:42):
My first principle around work is I will never work for money.
I will do something that I enjoydoing with people that I enjoy
being around and then the money will take care of itself.
Peter doesn't sugarcoat anything, and neither do I.
I was struggling for years with this concept of work life
balance. I'm known for saying work life
(01:04):
balance is BS. If you ever felt like you're
chasing someone else's definition of success, or if
your body send you a warning signals that you're ignoring,
this episode is your wake up call.
Peter, welcome to Authority in the Wild.
Thank you so much for having me.It's my pleasure and I'd like to
dive straight into it. Labels.
(01:25):
Why? We are so driven by anything
that's has titles and any sort of labels we attribute ourself
with without even realizing. That's a big, big no.
I, I think it's a mental shortcut, right?
I mean, we live in a society where it's so used to if you
(01:47):
meet somebody and they say, I'm an accountant, immediately you
have this idea, oh, I know what that means.
I know who this person is. Similar to the snap judgement we
make when we look at somebody. So I think it's a mental mental
shortcut essentially. That's why we like labels.
Indeed, and our brain lost shortcuts.
(02:08):
It is to make us feel safe and so on.
But it's not really the case nowadays.
And in your career, when you when did you realize that
laborers were holding you back and set you on a pad that you
don't want to go? Unfortunately, too late, I
think. I pursued labels where I pursued
(02:29):
status. I pursued certain things, like
most people for most of my earlycareer.
And then later on, later on in life, maybe only 10 years ago, I
started to understand that the label didn't define who I was,
right? The fact that I was ACEO or a
(02:49):
startup founder or the guy who employed hundreds of people that
actually didn't define who I wasas a person and as a human.
And I wish I had came. I had come to that discovery
much early in life. And why?
Why happens in your life? In order to realize like, all
(03:13):
right, these labels that they'reattributing myself with are not
doing me any good. Well, for, for anybody listening
to this and, and, and I think you also know in, in 2019, I
essentially my body shot down from working, right.
I found myself one morning not being able to get out of bed
(03:34):
physically. And I've gotten to an age now
I'm 51 of as of this recording that I was afraid that it was a
brain tumor or something terrible like that.
But it turned out just to be stress.
And as I went through this incapacitation and was sidelined
for 12 weeks, I started questioning essentially
(03:55):
everything that I've done about till that point, how I'd let my
personal life, how I'd live my professional life, and therefore
also this pursuit of more, more titles, more recognition, more
pay, more money, all these things.
So that was the turning point, essentially being so sick from
(04:17):
this pursuit that I needed to toreset and recalibrate what it
meant to be me and and who I wasin the world.
And what exactly you were doing back then in order to arrive at
that point, because I, I feel like a lot of people listening,
you're watching can resonate to it.
The things that you are chasing or the your daily routines that
(04:38):
led to you, your body literally shutting down.
I can talk about this for hours and and we have a 45 minutes, so
I'll try and make it brief, but I think I think a lot of us can
recognize the fact that we do a lot of things on autopilot,
right? Whether it's what we eat for
breakfast or the clothes that weput on.
But we do the same thing in our careers.
(04:58):
We kind of go down a path of being told you're supposed to do
this, go to university or study a trade or make money and make
more money. So we kind of follow this path
on autopilot of going into making a living doing something
that somebody else essentially has either directly or
(05:20):
indirectly suggested to us. And so if you do that, you end
up like the frog in the pot on the stove where somebody turns
on the heat. And in the beginning you don't
really notice something is wrong.
By little by little, it feels like it's getting a little bit
warm until all of a sudden the water is boiling and you're
(05:42):
toast. And I think that happens to many
people in their professional careers.
The way that it comes as an expression, if you're listening
to this and you're wondering, isthis me?
Are you sleeping well at night? Are you being short with people
around you? Have you changed your habits?
So, for example, you're less social than you used to be.
(06:03):
Or maybe you need a glass of some kind of alcohol, a
stimulant to wind down at the night.
Maybe you need a cup of coffee to get going in the morning.
Are you starting to have behaviors to essentially telling
you, hey, my body, my mind is not where it needs to be, It
needs something to function. If that's the case, chances are
(06:25):
you're in a professional situation or in a personal
situation that is not serving you as well as it could.
If I listen to this and I can't take all those boxes, what can I
do about it? Well, I think the first thing is
to be aware of it, right? So back to not being on
autopilot actually, oh, wait a minute, I'm not sleeping great.
(06:46):
Sleep is a is a super interesting topic.
Again, we can do another entire episode on that.
But I think the first thing you can do is look at your routines
around sleep. Am I going to bed at a decent
hour or am I spending my time doom scrolling on TikTok
watching Netflix, hanging out with my friends?
(07:06):
Am I sacrificing sleep for something that I actually do not
need as much as I need sleep? And the answer there is there is
nothing you need as much as sleep.
So well, maybe water, but outside of that, basically
change your habits around when you go to sleep.
Secondly is you know, how do I spend my time in bed?
(07:28):
And this sounds, this sounds a little, a little rude to say on
a podcast, but there's essentially only two things you
should do in bed. One of them is sleep.
The other one I think people canfigure out for themselves.
Everything else happens outside of the bedroom.
So create a space where your body knows when I go in here,
(07:48):
I'm sleeping or I'm doing this other thing with with the
partner in my life, right? So that's, that's what you need
to do first. Secondly, if you're waking in
the middle of the night and yourmind is racing and you're
thinking about something, start paying attention to what is it
that I'm thinking about? Is it work?
(08:12):
Is it something personal? Am I thinking about the past?
Am I worrying about the future? What is it that's happening in
my brain when it wakes up duringthe night?
And then say to yourself, can I do something about this?
Right. The short answer is most things
you cannot do anything about South.
(08:33):
Worrying about them or or thinking about them actually
doesn't serve you well. But the things you can do
something about the assignment becomes the next day start doing
something about that. Is it a hard conversation you
need to have with somebody? Is it a boundary you need to
set? Is it something that you need to
(08:53):
execute on that you keep pushingin front of you?
What is it? Start doing that the following
day. And those in theory are quite
simple things, right? Like changing your sleeping
patterns and the habits that youhave in in your dormitory,
especially because in theory is so simple, right?
Just leave devices out. Don't bring any type of
(09:14):
technology in your bedroom. And still a lot of people, like
you mentioned, take their devices to wind down or their
glass of wine or anything else that allows them to quote UN
quote sleep better. But the reality is just adding
weight to the struggles they arealready facing.
(09:35):
But if somebody's already takingcare of that, they, they have a
healthy sleep patterns. They are aware of the issues
that are facing in their life and business and they have those
hard conversation. They they take care of the
things they should take care of and still are on a path that
(09:55):
it's a pet of. Chasing more, chasing titles,
chasing money, chasing all thesematerial things that at the end
of the day doesn't matter that much.
How they can truly dig deeper and change their path towards
one that not only fulfills them,but make them healthier and
happier at the end of the day. Again, big topic.
(10:17):
I'm I'm loving this conversationso far.
I think it's, it's asking yourself what are my values and
what do I care about? For many of us, we chase wealth,
title, status not for ourselves,but for external validation,
right? I need my neighbor to see that
(10:40):
I'm driving a new car or I need my friends to see that I'm I'm
wearing an expensive watch or whatever it is.
Rarely do the things that drive us actually matter to us if we
see them in an isolated way, right?
Yes, it's nice to go on a nice vacation, but at the end of
(11:02):
life, when we ask people what really mattered to you, it's
time spent with our loved ones. That's number one.
No matter whether you're sittingin a tent or in a five star
resort in the Maldives, it does not matter.
So I would, I would start askingmyself, what are my values and
why am I doing the things that I'm doing?
I'm doing it for myself or am I doing it for somebody else?
(11:25):
And what you'll learn quite quickly is the vast majority of
the things that you worry about and that you that you obsess
about have nothing to do with what actually makes you
personally happy. And then you go down a path of
saying, all right, if I strip away all this stuff, what do I
need in my life? What do I want to spend my time
doing? And then you find ways to do
(11:48):
more of that. You maybe adjust your lifestyle.
A lot of people get caught up in, you know, I, I was there,
you know, living in, in a very expensive apartment in New York
City. I was like, well, do I actually
need to live in this very expensive apartment?
Or is another apartment just as good?
And of course, another apartmentis just as fine as long as you
have your basic needs covered, right?
(12:11):
So you can make choices, you canmake adjustments to your
lifestyle. You can make adjustments to the
work that you pursue, and then you need to start making those.
Absolutely, because when your actions are aligned with your
values, it's much more easier tonot make this only make
decisions, but as well to not feel overwhelmed but by all the
(12:33):
opinions of others, by all the pressure that society is putting
up on us. And still you are affected by it
and sometimes without even realizing it.
And just by being active in communities or in society as a
whole, the pressure often comes subconsciously or in a way that
(12:58):
your final self taking some sortof actions that we don't truly
align with our values or that wedon't really want, but we're
still doing it. And sometimes even calls for
very cool circles like family orloved ones and so on.
How we deal with that? Yeah, I don't want to make it
sound easy as we're sitting here.
It's definitely not easy, but itgets easier with time.
(13:21):
It's kind of like anything new you need to learn in the
beginning seems impossible, seems difficult.
You manage all of a sudden you're like running a marathon.
That's boring, right? And then you do something.
So the family, the family thing is, is really tricky.
A lot of the clients that I have.
So I, I'm a coach to founder CE OS globally, clients in 13
(13:43):
countries or so, 57 or so clients over the last five
years. And everybody I meet have had
some kind of of a family challenge, a relationship with a
sibling that is fraught or difficult expectations from
parents that people have struggled to live up to or are
affected by trying to live up to.
(14:07):
And, and, and the, the only way you can deal with that,
unfortunately, is to talk to somebody about how to deal with
it, right. Doing it on your own is not
going to change the pattern thatyou have had potentially since
childhood. So in many cases, either a
trained psychologist or a good friend or a coach can help you
(14:29):
talk through what is it that's happening here?
Why is it that I have such a hard time dealing with my dad's
constant expectations and the way that he dismisses my
successes when I'm so proud of the thing that I've built as an
adult, for example? And, and again, it sounds
simple, but it comes down to there was something that we
(14:53):
didn't get when we were children, right?
We were either told when we camehome with our grades, why didn't
why weren't your first in class,or our parents were absent
because they were doing other things and we needed their
attention. So we're trying to get more and
more of their attention as an adult.
And once you kind of go back in that path and kind of realize
(15:14):
where does this come from, then you can relate better to it in
the present by being like, all right, the reason I get upset
when we have to go to a family dinner is because I know inside
subconsciously that I'm not going to get the validation from
my dad that I so desperately want.
(15:34):
So I know that's why I actually don't like going to dinner with
him. Now that I know that I can
decide, am I going to address itwith him and saying, Hey, dad, I
actually need you to be proud ofme and tell me that you're proud
of me? Or can I just let it slide by
being like, he will not, he has not, he will ever, ever give me
(15:56):
the the validation that I need. So long answer here, Gabe, But
but it's to say, figure out why it's happening through
conversation with somebody. Understand your perspective on
whether or not the situation canchange.
Understand whether or not you can live with it not changing.
(16:16):
And if you can, great. If you can't either do something
about it with the person that isaffecting you or, and is this
going to sound incredibly harsh,avoid the person right.
We can remove ourselves from situations that are not healthy
for us. Not suggesting anybody abandons
their family members, I'm just saying you have a choice even
(16:40):
with family. Absolutely.
And I went through this type of experiences, I think you years
ago, five years or something with some friends that's I was
avoiding saying yes to their invites either to go out or do
(17:02):
other stuff. And I wasn't realizing at first
why is that happening? And when I did realize, I was
like, oh, OK, I'm avoiding this hard conversation with them.
They have different values, different paths in life.
I have another and so on. And once I realized that, I
tried to talk to them and I eventried to convince them about my
(17:30):
values and what they want to do.And slowly I realized that I
shouldn't do that. Like I shouldn't convince
someone about my values and for them to accept them.
If they accept them, it's OK, ifnot, it's their own choice and
we just spend them less and lesstime together until that
relationship basically turn out into a no relationship and was
(17:54):
one of the best thing that ever do for myself.
Improvement my growth in life, in business and so on.
Because this type of people often bring us down without
realizing and our hard conversation.
Because sometimes you spend years with these people around
you, either it's family members or close friends and it's hard
(18:18):
to let go. But it's needed unfortunately
and same. With, and I think the friend
attack example is a, is a, is a really good one.
It is very rare to go through life with people who will be
alongside you on the entire journey because we grow in
different ways, right? We get different interests.
(18:41):
We might geographically be dispersed.
There might be these things thatare happening.
So the expectation that we from when we're children until when
we're adults will have the same circle of friends and the same
circle of influence, It is, is is misplaced.
Of course, some of us will have friends that we've known from
when we're children, but I thinkit's more the exception than the
(19:04):
rule. Again, back to to the experience
in the last five years coaching all these people, the vast
majority of them again have had to shed relationships along the
way. The people I work with are are
founders and builders of companies.
A lot of people actually are threatened by that.
They're like, oh, what do you mean you're not going to be an
accountant at a big accountant firm?
(19:25):
What do you mean? You want to pursue your passion
of, you know, selling summer dresses?
That's crazy. And then as people do that and
they become successful at it, there's this envy that happens
in their old circle of friends or this questioning constantly,
like, why are you working all the time?
Why don't you take some time off?
(19:45):
And the founder sometimes says, well, actually, I enjoy what I'm
doing, I enjoy pursuing my passion.
And if you can't be with me in that and evolve with me in that,
then maybe we shouldn't hang outas much.
And on that note, because often boats in my personal life and as
well in our close friends, I seethis pattern in which one of the
(20:14):
members in that couple and so on.
Is a founder, the other is a full time employee and often,
yes, the schedule is different. The amount of work they put in
is different and friction appears and relationship broke.
And I think twice in my life therelationship broke like personal
(20:35):
relationship because of that. Lucky.
Now you're both in picket in thesame company, both me and my
wife and it's much more easier to deal with that.
But I see my friends, I see clients struggling with this
because yeah, schedule not the lining, pursue not the lining
and so on. Is there any solution to that?
(20:56):
Or the thing. Yeah, yeah, there, there
definitely is a solution. And the solution is dialogue and
expectations, right. So I think what happens in some
people, at least they they become partners and a couple
when they are doing the same thing.
They might meet each other at university or at school, or they
(21:19):
might meet each other at a business.
Or they might meet each other while they're both young
professionals working for somebody else.
And at the time, everything is great.
Everybody is in love. And then one person says, I
actually want to pursue my passion and start a business.
And person #2 says that sounds amazing.
I love you, honey. Go do you.
I'll support you. And then the founder is, is
(21:43):
starting this and they're going to go through what every founder
goes through. It's going to seem easy.
They're going to have some success.
They're going to fail. It's going to be horrible.
They're going to go up and down,up and down.
Nobody succeeds in a straight line.
And along the way, the person who's not on that journey is
going to support them and be there for them.
But also, of course, because they love each other, have this
(22:06):
feeling of, Oh, my partner's struggling.
Why doesn't I'm going to use he as an example?
Why doesn't he just go back to ajob where he's not going to
struggle, where it's not going to be difficult?
Or why doesn't he go back to a job where he's not stressed out
and comes home and is frustratedwith something and it affects
our relationship. So it's not because they don't
(22:29):
support the person's passion andpursuit.
It's because they wish that things would remain the way they
were when times get tough. And so it is about having a
dialogue. So, you know, as a personal
example, my girlfriend works fora big corporate and we have very
(22:51):
clear conversations about when she has a super busy schedule
and she's travelling all over the world or when I'm doing
something that requires me to beless present and physically
available in our joint home. But we talked about it and we're
like, hey, you know, I'm writinga book currently.
It's going to be delivered to the to the to the publisher in
(23:14):
December. So when that deal happened in
March, I talked to her about it and said, listen, this is going
to be a major undertaking for me.
Is it OK if I take a little bit of a time out from some of our
joint chores and activities? If if you kind of drive the bus
on, on the home stuff for a period of time And she says,
(23:36):
absolutely, I love you, I support you, it's going to be
amazing. Don't worry, I got this.
And then we continue to talk about it because some days she
still of course says, oh, you know, you're working all the
time again. And I'm like, I know and I don't
say, but we talked about it. You gave me permission.
I said thank you, honey, I appreciate that.
(23:57):
Why don't we connect again and then we have time together and
then I can go back to being fully focused on the business
And I'm not doing it for her sake.
I'm doing it for mine because ofcourse I want that relationship
to last for the rest of my life.So it's a long answer and a long
way of saying people opine against your focus from a place
(24:22):
of love and care, but if you turn into the founder who's
stressed and unpleasant and disrespectful and don't
communicate with your partner, it's on you.
And that, unfortunately, is mostoften what happens.
Most founders I meet in my practice are people who've
gotten out to a place where theydon't.
(24:43):
They're not who they are supposed to be, they're not who
they want to be, and their partner at home is raising the
flag and saying, buddy, you better fix this because
otherwise I'm not alone for the ride.
Yeah. And often without with that
allow lack of dialogue, it ends up in that situation where one
(25:03):
of the partners raised the flag and yeah, they put a almost a
deadline or something in place. To yeah, it becomes an
ultimatum, right? Which which nobody likes, right?
It's like putting a gun to your head and saying, Gabe, unless
you stop doing your startup, I'mleaving.
Well, that doesn't work because then you were treating me like
(25:23):
nobody's going to tell me what to do.
So it's back to saying, Hey, I want us to have a different kind
of dynamic. How can we look at that
together? Not you're doing this, which is
wrong. I want that.
And and I'm sorry, I, I think I interrupted you there.
(25:44):
But the main point here is talk to each other, right?
It ain't that hard. If something's on your mind,
don't do it when you're frustrated, sit your partner
down, write it down something and saying, hey, I'm
experiencing this. I'd love things to be different.
Can we figure it out together? Absolutely.
(26:06):
I love your example when your book deal appearing in the
picture. Yes, often if we ask ourselves,
like is this yes, that I'm saying to any sort of
opportunity going to affect in any way my availability or any
sort of commitments that I currently have just to through
(26:27):
that awareness, we can prepare ourselves and already start
putting into our to do this. Like I should have a
conversation with my partner or I should have a conversation
with my Co founder or whatever in order to make sure that
everyone's on the same page. And yes, that's can prepare us
and avoid the things that the uncomfortable conversations.
(26:51):
And Speaking of your book, if I remember correctly, I think it's
called The Whole Human Leader, and you mentioned that you're
going to send it to your publisher in December.
When is when you're going to be released?
So the release date is August 20, no, August 9th, 2026.
(27:12):
So 11 months from now and it's going to be published globally,
which is really exciting and hopefully it'll help a lot of
leaders remember themselves and,and lead us whole humans rather
than becoming something that they're they don't want to be.
What's a whole human concept? A whole human is somebody who
(27:35):
remains true to who they are, whether they are at home or at
work. I think this work started five
years ago when I realized that we, we're, we're not two
different people. I'm not professional Peter and
personal Peter, right? And I was struggling for years
(27:57):
with this concept of work life balance.
I'm known for saying work life balance is BS.
And I hope that's not swearing at your podcast.
But essentially the idea is we cannot balance these two things
because that actually indicates that they are at odds with each
other. If one is high, the other one
has to be to be low. And if one is low, the other one
(28:18):
has to be high. It's more about work life,
integration. So a whole human is an
individual who is able to stay true to who they are, regardless
of whether they are in their home with their family or at
work with their colleagues. And in order to do that, you
need to know who you are, right?You need to fully understand who
(28:41):
am I, Gabe, in this world, in this context, and who do I want
to be? And if those two things are not
aligned, you go back to who am I?
And then you try to be that person both when you're at work
and when you're at home. So a lot of it comes down to
having the moment to self reflect, figuring out what your
(29:02):
values are and then see how you can live those both at home and
in the office. Easy to say right?
And still most people strugglingthat like.
No, I don't think so. I don't think so.
I I don't think it's a struggle really.
I think most of us didn't ask ourselves that question, right?
(29:24):
If I sat you down and I said who's gay, you'd say something
like, he's a guy who acts with integrity, he is loyal, he takes
care of others, right? You, you'd use potentially you'd
use language like that. And then I'd ask you, your
situation is a little bit different.
(29:44):
But let's say you were an executive at some company and
let's say, are you leading with integrity at work or are you
doing things that where you sometimes like that's, that's
probably not what I should be doing, but it's expected of my
bosses or that's what the company policy is or whatever it
(30:05):
is, right? And if you have too many of
those where there's a disconnectbetween who you are, what your
values are, and how you are either asked to operate or how
you choose to operate because ofthe context you're in, that's
when you have an issue. And then you're like, either I
need to get the context to change, change job, tell the
(30:26):
bosses that they're wrong in screwing over the customers or
whatever it is, and face the consequences if they don't like
what they're hearing. Or you need to question your who
you think you are. Am I really the person with
integrity or am I OK with lowering my standards in certain
aspects of my life? That conversation is easy to
(30:49):
have. Acting on it is the hard part.
Indeed, and even with the conversation.
So personally, I, I used to struggle a lot with this like
having this alone moments in which to self reflect, to ask me
difficult questions and sometimes easy questions that I
was staying for like 20 minutes to half an hour to answer.
(31:11):
And then realizing like wait a second, I, I should not
overthink this because I know that this is that.
And when when in in this busy world in which especially if you
are a leader and you have so much on your plate, how we
should go about it in order to have those alone moments.
(31:34):
So have those conversation with ourselves.
How did you went on that moment?Well, I think my situation was a
little bit unique because of thethe sickness that I experienced
and kind of a forced reset, right?
Basically Mother Nature said, buddy, you're going to be lying
down for 12 weeks. You'll have plenty of things to
(31:55):
plenty of time to think. But I'll tell you what I tell
people that feel like they're too busy to have those alone
moments. I asked them to show me their
calendar. And in the vast majority of the
cases, I can reduce the time they spend on stuff by 30%.
(32:16):
Meetings that they're attending,relationships that they're
nurturing that they actually don't get any value out of or
don't want to do. Whatever it is, we can quickly
find time in this very packed calendar.
We can also just stop watching Netflix for a few minutes.
There's, there's some time, right?
So that's number one. Let's revisit.
(32:39):
How do you actually spend your time and what is it that makes
you feel like you're so busy? It's probably because you're
saying yes to things you shouldn't say yes to or
participating in activities thatare not necessary for you to
participate in. And once we have that, then I
essentially prescribe 30 minutesevery single day by yourself
(33:00):
without any input. So that means no music, no
screens, no physical book, ideally outside.
So find a bench on your way to work.
If you're driving to work, park somewhere and step out of the
car and just observe what's happening around you.
(33:21):
Feel the air on your skin, see what you can see, hear what you
can hear, scents, smells, thingscoming at you.
Just observe what that is. And if you start doing that, 30
minutes for a lot of people sounds like an eternity.
It's not, but that's what's prescribed.
They start doing that and littleby little what they experience
(33:43):
is their mind starts slowing down.
It starts not racing so much at night.
It starts being able to reflect and respond instead of reacting
when something happens. And once they've had that
experience and it happens quite quickly, it happens within a few
(34:03):
days in most cases. Then they're like, wait a
minute, why don't I want to do this everyday?
This is this is delicious, this is great.
Let me do more of it. And then it becomes a habit, and
then they see the benefits in the rest of their life.
Absolutely. Because having those moments,
especially as you mentioned outside, not being distracted by
(34:25):
technology or even a notebook that often.
So when I I had those reflectivemoments, I was taking like a
notebook when I was like, oh, I'll just write down the idea
that come through my mind and soon.
But just by sitting there with the pants in my hand, I was
overthinking things. I wasn't paying attention to
(34:45):
what's happening around me or tomy thoughts actually.
I was just having this task of writing something down instead
of reflecting or being disconnected and not affected
by, yeah, our beautiful mind. But sometimes the mind that it's
derailing us and Speaking of mind like in this whole whole
(35:10):
human concept, like how much is our subconscious affecting the
reality that we put into practice?
Well, this could be a very philosophical conversation quite
quickly, right? Because you're saying affecting
the reality. What is reality, right?
Is it what we're thinking that is happening or what is actually
(35:33):
happening? And so I'll quote my my favorite
Stoic, a not so young man anymore named Depictus.
And he said essentially there are two things that we can
control or indirectly 2 things we can affect.
To answer your question, number one is our actions.
What am I actually doing in thismoment?
(35:55):
I'm lifting up a pen, I'm takingmy water bottle.
That is real, as real as can be,right?
And the other thing that we can control or affect is how we
relate to our thoughts, not our actual thoughts.
I can't control what happens up here.
You know, I might be thinking about needing to go to the
(36:16):
grocery store later. That's a thought.
But whether or not I decide to focus on it and kind of grab it
and work with it and say, oh, I don't want to go to the grocery
store, it's my girlfriend's turn.
Whatever it is that comes up here, that's a choice how I
relate to what happens, right? So I think the, the, the, the
(36:40):
thing that we do on a day-to-daybasis is we spend a lot of time
in our mind believing that that's reality, believing that
what we're thinking is real. It's not, it is just a thought.
And once you realize that it's just a thought, it becomes much
(37:00):
easier to start thinking about, OK, what can I actually do?
My grocery example, I don't wantto go to the grocery store.
It's annoying lot of people justthat and the other, it's my
girlfriend's trip to turn right.Let's say she might be
listening, so I shouldn't say this too loudly, but let's say
that's the thought that I had. The thing I can do about it is
(37:26):
actually maybe the supermarket is not going to be bad that bad
because I might get there beforethe evening rush.
Or actually, maybe I should go with her so that we have the
experience together and that's more enjoyable than going by
myself or forcing her to go because I think it's her turn.
And by the way, why do I think it's her turn?
(37:46):
Is it actually something that wekeep track of?
Or is it because there's something else that I'm missing
in our relationship or that I feel like I'm doing more of?
Whatever it is now, I'm taking action on a thought which is not
reality, to improve my situationand improve my relationship and
(38:09):
improve my feeling of self. Do you see the difference?
That we can all do, Essentially,How do I relate to what's
happening up here? What am I going to do about it?
And often those action are determined as well by the
principles that you are guided by.
(38:31):
And I'd love to ask you about yours, since a lot of people
look at step by step processes frameworks, but I think
principles might be way more important than those.
So if I understand your questioncorrectly, I, I discovered many,
(38:52):
many years ago that one of my principles in my sort of the
professional sphere was I was never going to work for money
again. That became a principle to me at
an early age. I shifted jobs to make a lot of
money. I worked on Wall Street at an
investment bank called UBSI, only took that job because of
(39:15):
the money and the prestige. I was happy where I was.
Wasn't the satisfy, but I was like, oh, make a lot of money,
big brand, big title, all that stuff.
I was miserable. I didn't enjoy the work.
I didn't necessarily enjoy oldercolleagues, I didn't enjoy the
hours, I didn't enjoy anything about it.
(39:35):
And so back then I formed my first principle around work,
which is I will never work for money.
I will do something that I enjoydoing with people that I enjoy
being around, and then the moneywill take care of itself.
I, I created this idea, this belief, and then I started
(39:56):
pursuing that. And what that means is I
probably made less money than I could.
I don't have Porsches and private planes and also all the
stuff. But that was because of the
choices that I made-up, how I wanted to do, what I wanted to
do. That's not right for everybody.
It was right for me. So that's principle number one.
Principle number 2 is I have a son.
(40:20):
I want to be a good dad, right? So when I make choices about how
I spent my time. Where I focus my efforts, how I
deal with him, it's from AI wantto be a good dad.
Not for his sake, for my sake, so that I don't have any regrets
when I'm on my deathbed. Where I'm like, shoot, I should
(40:42):
have spent more time with him. I should have been more
available to him. I should have raised him
differently. All these other things that
people report when they're dyingis something that they regret.
I don't want to have those regrets.
So and then the third thing and,and these are not necessarily in
prioritized order. They're just the way that I'm
thinking about them as we're talking about it.
(41:04):
And the third thing is I want tostay true to who I am.
So I will reject things that areproposed to me.
I get offered all the time to dosponsorship deals of some sort.
Again, I don't want to do anything for the money.
(41:27):
And I say no because it doesn't feel right for me to tell you,
hey, use this software and your life will get better.
That's not what I'm about. Somebody else might be, that's
fine. But it also means that I will
have tough conversations with people.
So if my friends or family are not, if we're not aligned on how
(41:50):
we're going to be together, I will engage them in that
conversation because that is staying true to who I am and
what I preach. And if they don't want to have
that conversation, if they don'trespond well to that
conversation, I'm ready to deal with the consequences.
Doesn't mean it has to be my wayor the highway.
It's not about ego. It's just I know if I'm trying
(42:14):
to be something I'm not, it's not good for me.
And if it's not good for me, then I can't be good to others,
right? Then I can't be the best partner
to my girlfriend, I can't be thegood dad that I talked about,
and I can't contribute to society through the work I do
with my clients. And when you do say yes, who are
(42:34):
they? Who are the people that you help
the best? So if we're talking about
clients, a couple of things needto be present.
One, they need to understand that I require them to do the
work right. I'm not the kind of coach where
they sit and talk for an hour and I say things like, how does
(42:57):
that make you feel? What do you think about that?
You know, I give them homework. I require them to change their
behaviors in order to get different outcomes.
So I preface every client engagement with saying I love
it, that you want to work with me, but if you don't do the
work, I'm going to tell you to please get out of my store.
(43:20):
And that's, that's a new feeling.
And, and folks have to get used to that to begin with.
So that's professionally speaking, they will have to do
the work. In my personal life, I'm, I'm,
I'm thankful that I have a circle of friends and I have
family with whom I can talk about anything.
(43:42):
There is no topic that I cannot bring up and they don't meet me
in it, right. So whether it's personal and
insecurities, whether I did something wrong or stupid, you
know, I know that the people that are in my life will listen.
We'll be curious, we'll explore it with me, will give me advice,
(44:05):
but but I'm not going to be ridiculed and I'm not going to
be judged if I did something that maybe wasn't the best idea
to begin with. So I feel very safe right there
there. There's a lot of psychological
safety in my life and they didn't used to be, but I decided
that that's was required and andso I sought out people who would
(44:26):
give me that and. That's that's the thing that I
wanted to say that you didn't arrive here by chance.
You, you made those tough decisions to say no to certain
friends or old friends and potential deals like the
sponsorship that you mentioned and difficult, not difficult
like underline potential clientsand so on.
(44:50):
And often it's, I won't say it'sall it takes to to arrive there,
but it's a huge step to to learning to say that no to those
distractions that are like portrait as opportunities or
something else. And if those listening resonates
(45:13):
with that. And it's like Peter is the man
that I want to work with in order to take me to the next
level or to truly understand me as a human and be a better
leader where they can contact you.
Thankfully I have an unusual last name, so the simplest thing
is to Google Peter Sorg and Fry and I'm sure it'll be in the
(45:35):
show notes or, or elsewhere. And there's there are two of us
in the world with that name and one of them is a journalist.
That's not the guy, the guy thatsays he's a coach can't get in
contact on petersorgandfry.com or on LinkedIn.
I'm pretty much anywhere and everywhere now, but before.
(45:57):
You do know that this is different, right?
It's a different experience thanspeaking to a regular therapist.
Working with me means that you know that something needs to
change and you're ready, willingand able to do the work
required. And my guarantee back to you is
(46:19):
give me 3 months and if you're not in a much better place than
you were when we started, I'll refund you my entire fee.
Of that positioning and I'd liketo conclude with something that
and first of all for those listening and watching make sure
to check the show shows because the links as well to Peter
website and LinkedIn will be there.
(46:40):
I want to conclude with something.
If someone it's almost there, almost ready to work with you,
what they should do in order to be ready and for that change in
their behavior in putting the work and do the homework in
order to change their life. So most people are not in doubt
(47:02):
whether they're ready or not. I would say if you are just
experiencing a little bit of sleep trouble, if you are
generally OK with what you do professionally, if you are
generally OK with your relationships, you know it's OK
to be dissatisfied, it's OK to be frustrated, it's OK to be
(47:22):
stressed, whatever that exactly means for you.
But if generally things are all right, maybe it's just a phase.
But if you over a period of timehave been struggling with your
relationships, either your current ones or previous ones.
If you're, if you're not sleeping soundly at night, if
you're being short with people, if you don't like what you do
(47:43):
for a living, I would start withsitting down by myself with a
blank sheet of paper. Start writing down who am I?
What do I believe in? What do I want my life to look
like? And then if you can make that
happen, if you understand who you are, if you, if you know
what your life should be like and you can make those changes,
(48:05):
try. Are you willing to shed those
friends? Are you ready to have a tough
conversation with your partner? Will you be met in that
conversation? Can you have that conversation
together, or is your relationship not at that point?
Those are the things you need totest out before you, before you
phone me up. This was Peter Soccerfly on
(48:27):
Authority in the Wild. Thank you so much for tuning in.
We can remove ourselves from situations that are not healthy
for us. You have a choice even with
that. Meet Bitter Sorgan Fry, the
founder and CEO coach who created six companies across
three countries. For many of us, we chase wealth,
title, status not for ourselves,but for external validation.
(00:20):
Today, Peter coach leaders around the world in his Whole
Human approach, a method on which he has a book coming in
2036 called The Whole Human Leader, How to Lead Without
Losing Yourself. I found myself one morning not
being able to get out of bed physically.
I was afraid that it was a braintumor or something terrible like
that, but it turned out just to be stress.
(00:42):
My first principle around work is I will never work for money.
I will do something that I enjoydoing with people that I enjoy
being around and then the money will take care of itself.
Peter doesn't sugarcoat anything, and neither do I.
I was struggling for years with this concept of work life
balance. I'm known for saying work life
(01:04):
balance is BS. If you ever felt like you're
chasing someone else's definition of success, or if
your body send you a warning signals that you're ignoring,
this episode is your wake up call.
Peter, welcome to Authority in the Wild.
Thank you so much for having me.It's my pleasure and I'd like to
dive straight into it. Labels.
(01:25):
Why? We are so driven by anything
that's has titles and any sort of labels we attribute ourself
with without even realizing. That's a big, big no.
I, I think it's a mental shortcut, right?
I mean, we live in a society where it's so used to if you
(01:47):
meet somebody and they say, I'm an accountant, immediately you
have this idea, oh, I know what that means.
I know who this person is. Similar to the snap judgement we
make when we look at somebody. So I think it's a mental mental
shortcut essentially. That's why we like labels.
Indeed, and our brain lost shortcuts.
(02:08):
It is to make us feel safe and so on.
But it's not really the case nowadays.
And in your career, when you when did you realize that
laborers were holding you back and set you on a pad that you
don't want to go? Unfortunately, too late, I
think. I pursued labels where I pursued
(02:29):
status. I pursued certain things, like
most people for most of my earlycareer.
And then later on, later on in life, maybe only 10 years ago, I
started to understand that the label didn't define who I was,
right? The fact that I was ACEO or a
(02:49):
startup founder or the guy who employed hundreds of people that
actually didn't define who I wasas a person and as a human.
And I wish I had came. I had come to that discovery
much early in life. And why?
Why happens in your life? In order to realize like, all
(03:13):
right, these labels that they'reattributing myself with are not
doing me any good. Well, for, for anybody listening
to this and, and, and I think you also know in, in 2019, I
essentially my body shot down from working, right.
I found myself one morning not being able to get out of bed
(03:34):
physically. And I've gotten to an age now
I'm 51 of as of this recording that I was afraid that it was a
brain tumor or something terrible like that.
But it turned out just to be stress.
And as I went through this incapacitation and was sidelined
for 12 weeks, I started questioning essentially
(03:55):
everything that I've done about till that point, how I'd let my
personal life, how I'd live my professional life, and therefore
also this pursuit of more, more titles, more recognition, more
pay, more money, all these things.
So that was the turning point, essentially being so sick from
(04:17):
this pursuit that I needed to toreset and recalibrate what it
meant to be me and and who I wasin the world.
And what exactly you were doing back then in order to arrive at
that point, because I, I feel like a lot of people listening,
you're watching can resonate to it.
The things that you are chasing or the your daily routines that
(04:38):
led to you, your body literally shutting down.
I can talk about this for hours and and we have a 45 minutes, so
I'll try and make it brief, but I think I think a lot of us can
recognize the fact that we do a lot of things on autopilot,
right? Whether it's what we eat for
breakfast or the clothes that weput on.
But we do the same thing in our careers.
(04:58):
We kind of go down a path of being told you're supposed to do
this, go to university or study a trade or make money and make
more money. So we kind of follow this path
on autopilot of going into making a living doing something
that somebody else essentially has either directly or
(05:20):
indirectly suggested to us. And so if you do that, you end
up like the frog in the pot on the stove where somebody turns
on the heat. And in the beginning you don't
really notice something is wrong.
By little by little, it feels like it's getting a little bit
warm until all of a sudden the water is boiling and you're
(05:42):
toast. And I think that happens to many
people in their professional careers.
The way that it comes as an expression, if you're listening
to this and you're wondering, isthis me?
Are you sleeping well at night? Are you being short with people
around you? Have you changed your habits?
So, for example, you're less social than you used to be.
(06:03):
Or maybe you need a glass of some kind of alcohol, a
stimulant to wind down at the night.
Maybe you need a cup of coffee to get going in the morning.
Are you starting to have behaviors to essentially telling
you, hey, my body, my mind is not where it needs to be, It
needs something to function. If that's the case, chances are
(06:25):
you're in a professional situation or in a personal
situation that is not serving you as well as it could.
If I listen to this and I can't take all those boxes, what can I
do about it? Well, I think the first thing is
to be aware of it, right? So back to not being on
autopilot actually, oh, wait a minute, I'm not sleeping great.
(06:46):
Sleep is a is a super interesting topic.
Again, we can do another entire episode on that.
But I think the first thing you can do is look at your routines
around sleep. Am I going to bed at a decent
hour or am I spending my time doom scrolling on TikTok
watching Netflix, hanging out with my friends?
(07:06):
Am I sacrificing sleep for something that I actually do not
need as much as I need sleep? And the answer there is there is
nothing you need as much as sleep.
So well, maybe water, but outside of that, basically
change your habits around when you go to sleep.
Secondly is you know, how do I spend my time in bed?
(07:28):
And this sounds, this sounds a little, a little rude to say on
a podcast, but there's essentially only two things you
should do in bed. One of them is sleep.
The other one I think people canfigure out for themselves.
Everything else happens outside of the bedroom.
So create a space where your body knows when I go in here,
(07:48):
I'm sleeping or I'm doing this other thing with with the
partner in my life, right? So that's, that's what you need
to do first. Secondly, if you're waking in
the middle of the night and yourmind is racing and you're
thinking about something, start paying attention to what is it
that I'm thinking about? Is it work?
(08:12):
Is it something personal? Am I thinking about the past?
Am I worrying about the future? What is it that's happening in
my brain when it wakes up duringthe night?
And then say to yourself, can I do something about this?
Right. The short answer is most things
you cannot do anything about South.
(08:33):
Worrying about them or or thinking about them actually
doesn't serve you well. But the things you can do
something about the assignment becomes the next day start doing
something about that. Is it a hard conversation you
need to have with somebody? Is it a boundary you need to
set? Is it something that you need to
(08:53):
execute on that you keep pushingin front of you?
What is it? Start doing that the following
day. And those in theory are quite
simple things, right? Like changing your sleeping
patterns and the habits that youhave in in your dormitory,
especially because in theory is so simple, right?
Just leave devices out. Don't bring any type of
(09:14):
technology in your bedroom. And still a lot of people, like
you mentioned, take their devices to wind down or their
glass of wine or anything else that allows them to quote UN
quote sleep better. But the reality is just adding
weight to the struggles they arealready facing.
(09:35):
But if somebody's already takingcare of that, they, they have a
healthy sleep patterns. They are aware of the issues
that are facing in their life and business and they have those
hard conversation. They they take care of the
things they should take care of and still are on a path that
(09:55):
it's a pet of. Chasing more, chasing titles,
chasing money, chasing all thesematerial things that at the end
of the day doesn't matter that much.
How they can truly dig deeper and change their path towards
one that not only fulfills them,but make them healthier and
happier at the end of the day. Again, big topic.
(10:17):
I'm I'm loving this conversationso far.
I think it's, it's asking yourself what are my values and
what do I care about? For many of us, we chase wealth,
title, status not for ourselves,but for external validation,
right? I need my neighbor to see that
(10:40):
I'm driving a new car or I need my friends to see that I'm I'm
wearing an expensive watch or whatever it is.
Rarely do the things that drive us actually matter to us if we
see them in an isolated way, right?
Yes, it's nice to go on a nice vacation, but at the end of
(11:02):
life, when we ask people what really mattered to you, it's
time spent with our loved ones. That's number one.
No matter whether you're sittingin a tent or in a five star
resort in the Maldives, it does not matter.
So I would, I would start askingmyself, what are my values and
why am I doing the things that I'm doing?
I'm doing it for myself or am I doing it for somebody else?
(11:25):
And what you'll learn quite quickly is the vast majority of
the things that you worry about and that you that you obsess
about have nothing to do with what actually makes you
personally happy. And then you go down a path of
saying, all right, if I strip away all this stuff, what do I
need in my life? What do I want to spend my time
doing? And then you find ways to do
(11:48):
more of that. You maybe adjust your lifestyle.
A lot of people get caught up in, you know, I, I was there,
you know, living in, in a very expensive apartment in New York
City. I was like, well, do I actually
need to live in this very expensive apartment?
Or is another apartment just as good?
And of course, another apartmentis just as fine as long as you
have your basic needs covered, right?
(12:11):
So you can make choices, you canmake adjustments to your
lifestyle. You can make adjustments to the
work that you pursue, and then you need to start making those.
Absolutely, because when your actions are aligned with your
values, it's much more easier tonot make this only make
decisions, but as well to not feel overwhelmed but by all the
(12:33):
opinions of others, by all the pressure that society is putting
up on us. And still you are affected by it
and sometimes without even realizing it.
And just by being active in communities or in society as a
whole, the pressure often comes subconsciously or in a way that
(12:58):
your final self taking some sortof actions that we don't truly
align with our values or that wedon't really want, but we're
still doing it. And sometimes even calls for
very cool circles like family orloved ones and so on.
How we deal with that? Yeah, I don't want to make it
sound easy as we're sitting here.
It's definitely not easy, but itgets easier with time.
(13:21):
It's kind of like anything new you need to learn in the
beginning seems impossible, seems difficult.
You manage all of a sudden you're like running a marathon.
That's boring, right? And then you do something.
So the family, the family thing is, is really tricky.
A lot of the clients that I have.
So I, I'm a coach to founder CE OS globally, clients in 13
(13:43):
countries or so, 57 or so clients over the last five
years. And everybody I meet have had
some kind of of a family challenge, a relationship with a
sibling that is fraught or difficult expectations from
parents that people have struggled to live up to or are
affected by trying to live up to.
(14:07):
And, and, and the, the only way you can deal with that,
unfortunately, is to talk to somebody about how to deal with
it, right. Doing it on your own is not
going to change the pattern thatyou have had potentially since
childhood. So in many cases, either a
trained psychologist or a good friend or a coach can help you
(14:29):
talk through what is it that's happening here?
Why is it that I have such a hard time dealing with my dad's
constant expectations and the way that he dismisses my
successes when I'm so proud of the thing that I've built as an
adult, for example? And, and again, it sounds
simple, but it comes down to there was something that we
(14:53):
didn't get when we were children, right?
We were either told when we camehome with our grades, why didn't
why weren't your first in class,or our parents were absent
because they were doing other things and we needed their
attention. So we're trying to get more and
more of their attention as an adult.
And once you kind of go back in that path and kind of realize
(15:14):
where does this come from, then you can relate better to it in
the present by being like, all right, the reason I get upset
when we have to go to a family dinner is because I know inside
subconsciously that I'm not going to get the validation from
my dad that I so desperately want.
(15:34):
So I know that's why I actually don't like going to dinner with
him. Now that I know that I can
decide, am I going to address itwith him and saying, Hey, dad, I
actually need you to be proud ofme and tell me that you're proud
of me? Or can I just let it slide by
being like, he will not, he has not, he will ever, ever give me
(15:56):
the the validation that I need. So long answer here, Gabe, But
but it's to say, figure out why it's happening through
conversation with somebody. Understand your perspective on
whether or not the situation canchange.
Understand whether or not you can live with it not changing.
(16:16):
And if you can, great. If you can't either do something
about it with the person that isaffecting you or, and is this
going to sound incredibly harsh,avoid the person right.
We can remove ourselves from situations that are not healthy
for us. Not suggesting anybody abandons
their family members, I'm just saying you have a choice even
(16:40):
with family. Absolutely.
And I went through this type of experiences, I think you years
ago, five years or something with some friends that's I was
avoiding saying yes to their invites either to go out or do
(17:02):
other stuff. And I wasn't realizing at first
why is that happening? And when I did realize, I was
like, oh, OK, I'm avoiding this hard conversation with them.
They have different values, different paths in life.
I have another and so on. And once I realized that, I
tried to talk to them and I eventried to convince them about my
(17:30):
values and what they want to do.And slowly I realized that I
shouldn't do that. Like I shouldn't convince
someone about my values and for them to accept them.
If they accept them, it's OK, ifnot, it's their own choice and
we just spend them less and lesstime together until that
relationship basically turn out into a no relationship and was
(17:54):
one of the best thing that ever do for myself.
Improvement my growth in life, in business and so on.
Because this type of people often bring us down without
realizing and our hard conversation.
Because sometimes you spend years with these people around
you, either it's family members or close friends and it's hard
(18:18):
to let go. But it's needed unfortunately
and same. With, and I think the friend
attack example is a, is a, is a really good one.
It is very rare to go through life with people who will be
alongside you on the entire journey because we grow in
different ways, right? We get different interests.
(18:41):
We might geographically be dispersed.
There might be these things thatare happening.
So the expectation that we from when we're children until when
we're adults will have the same circle of friends and the same
circle of influence, It is, is is misplaced.
Of course, some of us will have friends that we've known from
when we're children, but I thinkit's more the exception than the
(19:04):
rule. Again, back to to the experience
in the last five years coaching all these people, the vast
majority of them again have had to shed relationships along the
way. The people I work with are are
founders and builders of companies.
A lot of people actually are threatened by that.
They're like, oh, what do you mean you're not going to be an
accountant at a big accountant firm?
(19:25):
What do you mean? You want to pursue your passion
of, you know, selling summer dresses?
That's crazy. And then as people do that and
they become successful at it, there's this envy that happens
in their old circle of friends or this questioning constantly,
like, why are you working all the time?
Why don't you take some time off?
(19:45):
And the founder sometimes says, well, actually, I enjoy what I'm
doing, I enjoy pursuing my passion.
And if you can't be with me in that and evolve with me in that,
then maybe we shouldn't hang outas much.
And on that note, because often boats in my personal life and as
well in our close friends, I seethis pattern in which one of the
(20:14):
members in that couple and so on.
Is a founder, the other is a full time employee and often,
yes, the schedule is different. The amount of work they put in
is different and friction appears and relationship broke.
And I think twice in my life therelationship broke like personal
(20:35):
relationship because of that. Lucky.
Now you're both in picket in thesame company, both me and my
wife and it's much more easier to deal with that.
But I see my friends, I see clients struggling with this
because yeah, schedule not the lining, pursue not the lining
and so on. Is there any solution to that?
(20:56):
Or the thing. Yeah, yeah, there, there
definitely is a solution. And the solution is dialogue and
expectations, right. So I think what happens in some
people, at least they they become partners and a couple
when they are doing the same thing.
They might meet each other at university or at school, or they
(21:19):
might meet each other at a business.
Or they might meet each other while they're both young
professionals working for somebody else.
And at the time, everything is great.
Everybody is in love. And then one person says, I
actually want to pursue my passion and start a business.
And person #2 says that sounds amazing.
I love you, honey. Go do you.
I'll support you. And then the founder is, is
(21:43):
starting this and they're going to go through what every founder
goes through. It's going to seem easy.
They're going to have some success.
They're going to fail. It's going to be horrible.
They're going to go up and down,up and down.
Nobody succeeds in a straight line.
And along the way, the person who's not on that journey is
going to support them and be there for them.
But also, of course, because they love each other, have this
(22:06):
feeling of, Oh, my partner's struggling.
Why doesn't I'm going to use he as an example?
Why doesn't he just go back to ajob where he's not going to
struggle, where it's not going to be difficult?
Or why doesn't he go back to a job where he's not stressed out
and comes home and is frustratedwith something and it affects
our relationship. So it's not because they don't
(22:29):
support the person's passion andpursuit.
It's because they wish that things would remain the way they
were when times get tough. And so it is about having a
dialogue. So, you know, as a personal
example, my girlfriend works fora big corporate and we have very
(22:51):
clear conversations about when she has a super busy schedule
and she's travelling all over the world or when I'm doing
something that requires me to beless present and physically
available in our joint home. But we talked about it and we're
like, hey, you know, I'm writinga book currently.
It's going to be delivered to the to the to the publisher in
(23:14):
December. So when that deal happened in
March, I talked to her about it and said, listen, this is going
to be a major undertaking for me.
Is it OK if I take a little bit of a time out from some of our
joint chores and activities? If if you kind of drive the bus
on, on the home stuff for a period of time And she says,
(23:36):
absolutely, I love you, I support you, it's going to be
amazing. Don't worry, I got this.
And then we continue to talk about it because some days she
still of course says, oh, you know, you're working all the
time again. And I'm like, I know and I don't
say, but we talked about it. You gave me permission.
I said thank you, honey, I appreciate that.
(23:57):
Why don't we connect again and then we have time together and
then I can go back to being fully focused on the business
And I'm not doing it for her sake.
I'm doing it for mine because ofcourse I want that relationship
to last for the rest of my life.So it's a long answer and a long
way of saying people opine against your focus from a place
(24:22):
of love and care, but if you turn into the founder who's
stressed and unpleasant and disrespectful and don't
communicate with your partner, it's on you.
And that, unfortunately, is mostoften what happens.
Most founders I meet in my practice are people who've
gotten out to a place where theydon't.
(24:43):
They're not who they are supposed to be, they're not who
they want to be, and their partner at home is raising the
flag and saying, buddy, you better fix this because
otherwise I'm not alone for the ride.
Yeah. And often without with that
allow lack of dialogue, it ends up in that situation where one
(25:03):
of the partners raised the flag and yeah, they put a almost a
deadline or something in place. To yeah, it becomes an
ultimatum, right? Which which nobody likes, right?
It's like putting a gun to your head and saying, Gabe, unless
you stop doing your startup, I'mleaving.
Well, that doesn't work because then you were treating me like
(25:23):
nobody's going to tell me what to do.
So it's back to saying, Hey, I want us to have a different kind
of dynamic. How can we look at that
together? Not you're doing this, which is
wrong. I want that.
And and I'm sorry, I, I think I interrupted you there.
(25:44):
But the main point here is talk to each other, right?
It ain't that hard. If something's on your mind,
don't do it when you're frustrated, sit your partner
down, write it down something and saying, hey, I'm
experiencing this. I'd love things to be different.
Can we figure it out together? Absolutely.
(26:06):
I love your example when your book deal appearing in the
picture. Yes, often if we ask ourselves,
like is this yes, that I'm saying to any sort of
opportunity going to affect in any way my availability or any
sort of commitments that I currently have just to through
(26:27):
that awareness, we can prepare ourselves and already start
putting into our to do this. Like I should have a
conversation with my partner or I should have a conversation
with my Co founder or whatever in order to make sure that
everyone's on the same page. And yes, that's can prepare us
and avoid the things that the uncomfortable conversations.
(26:51):
And Speaking of your book, if I remember correctly, I think it's
called The Whole Human Leader, and you mentioned that you're
going to send it to your publisher in December.
When is when you're going to be released?
So the release date is August 20, no, August 9th, 2026.
(27:12):
So 11 months from now and it's going to be published globally,
which is really exciting and hopefully it'll help a lot of
leaders remember themselves and,and lead us whole humans rather
than becoming something that they're they don't want to be.
What's a whole human concept? A whole human is somebody who
(27:35):
remains true to who they are, whether they are at home or at
work. I think this work started five
years ago when I realized that we, we're, we're not two
different people. I'm not professional Peter and
personal Peter, right? And I was struggling for years
(27:57):
with this concept of work life balance.
I'm known for saying work life balance is BS.
And I hope that's not swearing at your podcast.
But essentially the idea is we cannot balance these two things
because that actually indicates that they are at odds with each
other. If one is high, the other one
has to be to be low. And if one is low, the other one
(28:18):
has to be high. It's more about work life,
integration. So a whole human is an
individual who is able to stay true to who they are, regardless
of whether they are in their home with their family or at
work with their colleagues. And in order to do that, you
need to know who you are, right?You need to fully understand who
(28:41):
am I, Gabe, in this world, in this context, and who do I want
to be? And if those two things are not
aligned, you go back to who am I?
And then you try to be that person both when you're at work
and when you're at home. So a lot of it comes down to
having the moment to self reflect, figuring out what your
(29:02):
values are and then see how you can live those both at home and
in the office. Easy to say right?
And still most people strugglingthat like.
No, I don't think so. I don't think so.
I I don't think it's a struggle really.
I think most of us didn't ask ourselves that question, right?
(29:24):
If I sat you down and I said who's gay, you'd say something
like, he's a guy who acts with integrity, he is loyal, he takes
care of others, right? You, you'd use potentially you'd
use language like that. And then I'd ask you, your
situation is a little bit different.
(29:44):
But let's say you were an executive at some company and
let's say, are you leading with integrity at work or are you
doing things that where you sometimes like that's, that's
probably not what I should be doing, but it's expected of my
bosses or that's what the company policy is or whatever it
(30:05):
is, right? And if you have too many of
those where there's a disconnectbetween who you are, what your
values are, and how you are either asked to operate or how
you choose to operate because ofthe context you're in, that's
when you have an issue. And then you're like, either I
need to get the context to change, change job, tell the
(30:26):
bosses that they're wrong in screwing over the customers or
whatever it is, and face the consequences if they don't like
what they're hearing. Or you need to question your who
you think you are. Am I really the person with
integrity or am I OK with lowering my standards in certain
aspects of my life? That conversation is easy to
(30:49):
have. Acting on it is the hard part.
Indeed, and even with the conversation.
So personally, I, I used to struggle a lot with this like
having this alone moments in which to self reflect, to ask me
difficult questions and sometimes easy questions that I
was staying for like 20 minutes to half an hour to answer.
(31:11):
And then realizing like wait a second, I, I should not
overthink this because I know that this is that.
And when when in in this busy world in which especially if you
are a leader and you have so much on your plate, how we
should go about it in order to have those alone moments.
(31:34):
So have those conversation with ourselves.
How did you went on that moment?Well, I think my situation was a
little bit unique because of thethe sickness that I experienced
and kind of a forced reset, right?
Basically Mother Nature said, buddy, you're going to be lying
down for 12 weeks. You'll have plenty of things to
(31:55):
plenty of time to think. But I'll tell you what I tell
people that feel like they're too busy to have those alone
moments. I asked them to show me their
calendar. And in the vast majority of the
cases, I can reduce the time they spend on stuff by 30%.
(32:16):
Meetings that they're attending,relationships that they're
nurturing that they actually don't get any value out of or
don't want to do. Whatever it is, we can quickly
find time in this very packed calendar.
We can also just stop watching Netflix for a few minutes.
There's, there's some time, right?
So that's number one. Let's revisit.
(32:39):
How do you actually spend your time and what is it that makes
you feel like you're so busy? It's probably because you're
saying yes to things you shouldn't say yes to or
participating in activities thatare not necessary for you to
participate in. And once we have that, then I
essentially prescribe 30 minutesevery single day by yourself
(33:00):
without any input. So that means no music, no
screens, no physical book, ideally outside.
So find a bench on your way to work.
If you're driving to work, park somewhere and step out of the
car and just observe what's happening around you.
(33:21):
Feel the air on your skin, see what you can see, hear what you
can hear, scents, smells, thingscoming at you.
Just observe what that is. And if you start doing that, 30
minutes for a lot of people sounds like an eternity.
It's not, but that's what's prescribed.
They start doing that and littleby little what they experience
(33:43):
is their mind starts slowing down.
It starts not racing so much at night.
It starts being able to reflect and respond instead of reacting
when something happens. And once they've had that
experience and it happens quite quickly, it happens within a few
(34:03):
days in most cases. Then they're like, wait a
minute, why don't I want to do this everyday?
This is this is delicious, this is great.
Let me do more of it. And then it becomes a habit, and
then they see the benefits in the rest of their life.
Absolutely. Because having those moments,
especially as you mentioned outside, not being distracted by
(34:25):
technology or even a notebook that often.
So when I I had those reflectivemoments, I was taking like a
notebook when I was like, oh, I'll just write down the idea
that come through my mind and soon.
But just by sitting there with the pants in my hand, I was
overthinking things. I wasn't paying attention to
(34:45):
what's happening around me or tomy thoughts actually.
I was just having this task of writing something down instead
of reflecting or being disconnected and not affected
by, yeah, our beautiful mind. But sometimes the mind that it's
derailing us and Speaking of mind like in this whole whole
(35:10):
human concept, like how much is our subconscious affecting the
reality that we put into practice?
Well, this could be a very philosophical conversation quite
quickly, right? Because you're saying affecting
the reality. What is reality, right?
Is it what we're thinking that is happening or what is actually
(35:33):
happening? And so I'll quote my my favorite
Stoic, a not so young man anymore named Depictus.
And he said essentially there are two things that we can
control or indirectly 2 things we can affect.
To answer your question, number one is our actions.
What am I actually doing in thismoment?
(35:55):
I'm lifting up a pen, I'm takingmy water bottle.
That is real, as real as can be,right?
And the other thing that we can control or affect is how we
relate to our thoughts, not our actual thoughts.
I can't control what happens up here.
You know, I might be thinking about needing to go to the
(36:16):
grocery store later. That's a thought.
But whether or not I decide to focus on it and kind of grab it
and work with it and say, oh, I don't want to go to the grocery
store, it's my girlfriend's turn.
Whatever it is that comes up here, that's a choice how I
relate to what happens, right? So I think the, the, the, the
(36:40):
thing that we do on a day-to-daybasis is we spend a lot of time
in our mind believing that that's reality, believing that
what we're thinking is real. It's not, it is just a thought.
And once you realize that it's just a thought, it becomes much
(37:00):
easier to start thinking about, OK, what can I actually do?
My grocery example, I don't wantto go to the grocery store.
It's annoying lot of people justthat and the other, it's my
girlfriend's trip to turn right.Let's say she might be
listening, so I shouldn't say this too loudly, but let's say
that's the thought that I had. The thing I can do about it is
(37:26):
actually maybe the supermarket is not going to be bad that bad
because I might get there beforethe evening rush.
Or actually, maybe I should go with her so that we have the
experience together and that's more enjoyable than going by
myself or forcing her to go because I think it's her turn.
And by the way, why do I think it's her turn?
(37:46):
Is it actually something that wekeep track of?
Or is it because there's something else that I'm missing
in our relationship or that I feel like I'm doing more of?
Whatever it is now, I'm taking action on a thought which is not
reality, to improve my situationand improve my relationship and
(38:09):
improve my feeling of self. Do you see the difference?
That we can all do, Essentially,How do I relate to what's
happening up here? What am I going to do about it?
And often those action are determined as well by the
principles that you are guided by.
(38:31):
And I'd love to ask you about yours, since a lot of people
look at step by step processes frameworks, but I think
principles might be way more important than those.
So if I understand your questioncorrectly, I, I discovered many,
(38:52):
many years ago that one of my principles in my sort of the
professional sphere was I was never going to work for money
again. That became a principle to me at
an early age. I shifted jobs to make a lot of
money. I worked on Wall Street at an
investment bank called UBSI, only took that job because of
(39:15):
the money and the prestige. I was happy where I was.
Wasn't the satisfy, but I was like, oh, make a lot of money,
big brand, big title, all that stuff.
I was miserable. I didn't enjoy the work.
I didn't necessarily enjoy oldercolleagues, I didn't enjoy the
hours, I didn't enjoy anything about it.
(39:35):
And so back then I formed my first principle around work,
which is I will never work for money.
I will do something that I enjoydoing with people that I enjoy
being around, and then the moneywill take care of itself.
I, I created this idea, this belief, and then I started
(39:56):
pursuing that. And what that means is I
probably made less money than I could.
I don't have Porsches and private planes and also all the
stuff. But that was because of the
choices that I made-up, how I wanted to do, what I wanted to
do. That's not right for everybody.
It was right for me. So that's principle number one.
Principle number 2 is I have a son.
(40:20):
I want to be a good dad, right? So when I make choices about how
I spent my time. Where I focus my efforts, how I
deal with him, it's from AI wantto be a good dad.
Not for his sake, for my sake, so that I don't have any regrets
when I'm on my deathbed. Where I'm like, shoot, I should
(40:42):
have spent more time with him. I should have been more
available to him. I should have raised him
differently. All these other things that
people report when they're dyingis something that they regret.
I don't want to have those regrets.
So and then the third thing and,and these are not necessarily in
prioritized order. They're just the way that I'm
thinking about them as we're talking about it.
(41:04):
And the third thing is I want tostay true to who I am.
So I will reject things that areproposed to me.
I get offered all the time to dosponsorship deals of some sort.
Again, I don't want to do anything for the money.
(41:27):
And I say no because it doesn't feel right for me to tell you,
hey, use this software and your life will get better.
That's not what I'm about. Somebody else might be, that's
fine. But it also means that I will
have tough conversations with people.
So if my friends or family are not, if we're not aligned on how
(41:50):
we're going to be together, I will engage them in that
conversation because that is staying true to who I am and
what I preach. And if they don't want to have
that conversation, if they don'trespond well to that
conversation, I'm ready to deal with the consequences.
Doesn't mean it has to be my wayor the highway.
It's not about ego. It's just I know if I'm trying
(42:14):
to be something I'm not, it's not good for me.
And if it's not good for me, then I can't be good to others,
right? Then I can't be the best partner
to my girlfriend, I can't be thegood dad that I talked about,
and I can't contribute to society through the work I do
with my clients. And when you do say yes, who are
(42:34):
they? Who are the people that you help
the best? So if we're talking about
clients, a couple of things needto be present.
One, they need to understand that I require them to do the
work right. I'm not the kind of coach where
they sit and talk for an hour and I say things like, how does
(42:57):
that make you feel? What do you think about that?
You know, I give them homework. I require them to change their
behaviors in order to get different outcomes.
So I preface every client engagement with saying I love
it, that you want to work with me, but if you don't do the
work, I'm going to tell you to please get out of my store.
(43:20):
And that's, that's a new feeling.
And, and folks have to get used to that to begin with.
So that's professionally speaking, they will have to do
the work. In my personal life, I'm, I'm,
I'm thankful that I have a circle of friends and I have
family with whom I can talk about anything.
(43:42):
There is no topic that I cannot bring up and they don't meet me
in it, right. So whether it's personal and
insecurities, whether I did something wrong or stupid, you
know, I know that the people that are in my life will listen.
We'll be curious, we'll explore it with me, will give me advice,
(44:05):
but but I'm not going to be ridiculed and I'm not going to
be judged if I did something that maybe wasn't the best idea
to begin with. So I feel very safe right there
there. There's a lot of psychological
safety in my life and they didn't used to be, but I decided
that that's was required and andso I sought out people who would
(44:26):
give me that and. That's that's the thing that I
wanted to say that you didn't arrive here by chance.
You, you made those tough decisions to say no to certain
friends or old friends and potential deals like the
sponsorship that you mentioned and difficult, not difficult
like underline potential clientsand so on.
(44:50):
And often it's, I won't say it'sall it takes to to arrive there,
but it's a huge step to to learning to say that no to those
distractions that are like portrait as opportunities or
something else. And if those listening resonates
(45:13):
with that. And it's like Peter is the man
that I want to work with in order to take me to the next
level or to truly understand me as a human and be a better
leader where they can contact you.
Thankfully I have an unusual last name, so the simplest thing
is to Google Peter Sorg and Fry and I'm sure it'll be in the
(45:35):
show notes or, or elsewhere. And there's there are two of us
in the world with that name and one of them is a journalist.
That's not the guy, the guy thatsays he's a coach can't get in
contact on petersorgandfry.com or on LinkedIn.
I'm pretty much anywhere and everywhere now, but before.
(45:57):
You do know that this is different, right?
It's a different experience thanspeaking to a regular therapist.
Working with me means that you know that something needs to
change and you're ready, willingand able to do the work
required. And my guarantee back to you is
(46:19):
give me 3 months and if you're not in a much better place than
you were when we started, I'll refund you my entire fee.
Of that positioning and I'd liketo conclude with something that
and first of all for those listening and watching make sure
to check the show shows because the links as well to Peter
website and LinkedIn will be there.
(46:40):
I want to conclude with something.
If someone it's almost there, almost ready to work with you,
what they should do in order to be ready and for that change in
their behavior in putting the work and do the homework in
order to change their life. So most people are not in doubt
(47:02):
whether they're ready or not. I would say if you are just
experiencing a little bit of sleep trouble, if you are
generally OK with what you do professionally, if you are
generally OK with your relationships, you know it's OK
to be dissatisfied, it's OK to be frustrated, it's OK to be
(47:22):
stressed, whatever that exactly means for you.
But if generally things are all right, maybe it's just a phase.
But if you over a period of timehave been struggling with your
relationships, either your current ones or previous ones.
If you're, if you're not sleeping soundly at night, if
you're being short with people, if you don't like what you do
(47:43):
for a living, I would start withsitting down by myself with a
blank sheet of paper. Start writing down who am I?
What do I believe in? What do I want my life to look
like? And then if you can make that
happen, if you understand who you are, if you, if you know
what your life should be like and you can make those changes,
(48:05):
try. Are you willing to shed those
friends? Are you ready to have a tough
conversation with your partner? Will you be met in that
conversation? Can you have that conversation
together, or is your relationship not at that point?
Those are the things you need totest out before you, before you
phone me up. This was Peter Soccerfly on
(48:27):
Authority in the Wild. Thank you so much for tuning in.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com