#133 - Product-Market Fit Is Dead (Here's What Replaced It) w/ Allyson Letteri - Authority in the Wild

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This ability to develop and testquickly is upending some of the
old rules of finding product market fit, and I think it makes
marketing a little bit harder. Alison Lettieri is a marketing
exec turned startup advisor and author of The Standout Startup.
There are many channels that would work for one startup that
would be the exact wrong fit foranother startup because they're

(00:20):
selling to different people who are influenced in different way
and gather in different spaces. She helps early stage founders
with messaging, positioning and go to market strategies that
drive growth. Ultimately, the goal is to get
your product of its value in front of the people that need it
most. She's built and skilled teams at

(00:41):
Dantech and Handshake. From Serious C to Unicorn,
anyone who has a founding role needs to understand how to
create and refine messaging overtime because it will forever be
a part of your company's process.
In this episode, Allison shares practical frameworks founders
can use immediately to gain traction and revenue.
Enjoy, Allison. Welcome to 30 in the Wild.

(01:06):
Thanks, Gabe. Great to see you.
Likewise, and I'm really excitedto talk to you today simply
because we live in a world that's full of hype around AI
and I know that it's harder thanever to stand out as a start up
and I'll have to start exactly there.
Like what's changing and what's stays the same into this world?

(01:29):
Yeah, there's been a massive shift in how companies are
building over the past couple years.
And I work primarily with very early stage tech startups.
So pre seed, seed Series A, maybe they've just gotten their
funding, but they are still rapidly evolving, trying to find
product market fit and identifying those first
customers who can really get a lot of value from their product.

(01:53):
The good news, I think from a marketing perspective is the
fundamentals of how you define areally effective go to market
strategy aren't changing. And so we'll talk through some
of that today. But if you've launched a company
before and you've identified your ideal customer, you
understand how the competition works and what differentiates
you, Those are the main things you need to know to nail your

(02:15):
messaging, create a great content strategy, and start
standing out. But one thing I'm seeing is that
because the speed to market is so different now, companies can
develop products and get them out there in days, if not weeks.
Sometimes I'm seeing startups actually build something and
then try to find a buyer, find someone with a problem that this

(02:37):
can solve. And that is challenging because
it's easier to go to market whenyou have a strong understanding
of a customer, their pain points, how you're creating
value for them, and then you cancreate messaging with a lot of
conviction around that. So this ability to develop and
test quickly is upending some ofthe old rules of finding product
market fit and I think it makes marketing a little bit harder.

(03:01):
Yeah, totally agree. And it's fine that you brought
that up because I think last week I had a conversation with
someone that's in the exact samesituation, the second one in
which they already developed an amazing product and they spent
literally I think 2 1/2 years already.
They have some interest and so on.
But it's so hard to actually find someone to put some money

(03:22):
into that start up. And if you want, we can tackle
both sides like the traditional you because and to believe as
well that you need to understandyour customers and their pain
points in order to be able to create worldwide solutions.
So it's still some people are inthe second situation, which one
you want to go first with? Well, let's go first with how do

(03:45):
you start to create effective messaging, which I think is
really the foundation of any strong marketing strategy.
What often happens when a founder finds me?
Usually. Through a VC.
Referral or hearing about me from another founder is that
they know that their messaging is off.
The way they're describing theirproduct is either not clicking

(04:06):
with the people that they think should really value their
product, or they're doing fine in sales conversations, but
their website is multiple versions behind what they're
saying in real time. The product has evolved so much,
their understanding of the customers evolved so much, and
it feels chaotic because they can't actually invite a prospect

(04:26):
into any kind of experience that's going to educate them
about the product properly. So where I always start with a
founder, whether they've found and identified the customer yet
or they're still working on it, is by defining what I call the
three PS. So this starts with trying to
get as much fidelity as you can about your persona, positioning

(04:49):
and personality so that you're able to create that strong
messaging. And even if you're iterating
quickly, you know you're testingwith one segment of customers
over the next two weeks in a Sprint and you quickly realize
those aren't the right fit, so you pivot to another group.
This same process will work. So the first P persona, it's
really identifying 3 layers, thecompany that you're selling to

(05:10):
the ICP ideal customer profile company and the characteristics
that qualify them to be. A great fit.
And then it's thinking about who's on the buying committee
and specifically who is the entry point to get into this
organization. Whose attention do you need to
catch to make them interested ina product like this?
Because they'll either be the internal champion or they feel

(05:33):
the pain most acutely. So they would be the ones
searching for and vetting. A product like yours.
And then once you identify that,it's really getting into the
mind of that persona and figuring out how can I?
Describe this product. In a way that shows we really
understand their pain points andwhat they need to solve and we
can deliver the results they want.
So that's one lens. And again, whether you are

(05:55):
really clear on that, you just haven't.
Codified it yet? Or you're in this rapid test
cycle. Always starting with customer
understanding to shape your messaging is the most important
step one. But the other lens you really
have to bring to it is that positioning or that competitive
lens, what makes us different and better and the no brainer
best choice for this customer. And I think a lot of founders

(06:19):
can maybe describe the value to the persona once they figure out
exactly who they're selling to, But it can feel harder to
articulate why us, why are we better than the alternatives.
And in many cases, that's because the product is
relatively bare bones at first, right?
It's got the essentials to solvea problem, but it doesn't
necessarily deliver a super differentiated user experience

(06:41):
or benefits and. That's.
Where the founder really workinghard to make it very clear why
us, why we're different and better becomes a top priority.
And I think that's one of the biggest challenges in this
because often most people out there, and not only in start up
world like small businesses and so on, they find so hard to

(07:04):
differentiate because they're solike, I'm selling the same
thing, I'm solving the same problem like anyone else.
What they should look out for inorder to find those things that
really made them stand out. Yeah, it's a great question.
Usually you're going to be differentiating your product or
your service on either the exceptional benefits it

(07:24):
provides. So you're able to deliver an
outcome or result that someone can't get from another product
because of the way it's built, your feature set, the way you
operate as a company, or you're differentiating on user
experience. So we deliver the exact same
benefits you might find through some other product, but it's

(07:45):
going to feel so much more delightful to use our product
and that is going to have emotional benefits and other
pieces. So the first question I'd ask is
which camp are you in? Or maybe it's a combination of
both. Is it the better experience or
is it the better outcomes? And that gives you a starting
point. But another activity I really
like to do with companies is what I call a Flip the Matrix

(08:08):
exercise. So step one is thinking about
that sort of traditional two by two positioning matrix.
Get really clear eyed about the current market.
So who are your biggest competitors?
Going that back to that ICP company in persona, what's the
short list of alternative solutions they're going to be
choosing among? So don't boil the ocean.

(08:29):
It doesn't need to be 20. It's, you know, what are the
three to four that you will consistently come up against in
sales conversations and think about in today's world, why are
your ideal prospects putting those products at the top of
their list? What are the key attributes that
are really making them stand outand seem like the best choice?

(08:50):
And then you want to think about, OK, if we were going to
flip this matrix where we're suddenly in the upper right
quadrant and everyone else fallsdown, what are the attributes
that would put us there? And again, it's probably going
to be something about the user experience or the benefits you
offer. But the idea here is those other
companies are great. They're doing something good.

(09:12):
There's a reason customers are choosing them.
But you want to position your company in a way that says that
they're not the best for you. What you need to be optimizing
for is these other two attributes which our product or
service delivers better than anyone else.
And so seeing it on that new matrix gives you confidence to
say, these are the things that really set us apart and This is

(09:33):
why you should choose us. And by the way, make sure that
comes through loud and clear in your messaging on your website.
Don't bury the lead. That's one of the most important
things you want to make really pop.
So on that point with messaging,I feel like a lot of people
confuse this term with, I don't know, things that are thrown out

(09:54):
there like, oh, maybe it should be my linking bio, or maybe it
should be my headline on the website or the landing page.
It should be something else. What truly it's a clear?
What are the components of a clear message?
Yes, I love that question. So what I'm talking about is a
product messaging framework thathelps you describe the value and

(10:15):
the differentiators of your product to your ideal customer.
And when you have this frameworknailed you.
Will feel very confident. About what you should put on
your homepage. You'll have a lot of clarity
around your sales narrative. It unlocks a lot of pieces that
feel chaotic until you figure this out.
And so there's really three maincomponents.

(10:35):
First, I mentioned that the insights you need to be able to
create this framework come from the three PS.
So understanding your persona, your positioning and your
personality, which we might wantto touch on.
Once you have those insights, then the three components of a
messaging framework at the top is AUSPA unique selling
proposition. And this is really the one liner
elevator pitch about your product that everyone in your

(10:57):
company can repeat. And you might have slightly
different versions depending on the context or if you're talking
to 1 customer segment versus theother.
But a really nice formula to start with is our product is a
what? So what's the category you're in
or what type of product are you for who?
So what types of companies or person should be using your

(11:20):
product to make that very clear that delivers what type of
transformation. And so for instance, in my last
role, my last full time role as VP Marketing at Handshake, our
USP is Handshake is a early career network that helps
employers hiring entry level talent find and hire the best

(11:43):
people for their roles. So made it clear what types of
company should hire us and that the big promise was hiring and
that you would be able to find the right candidates on our
platform. The second key component of a
messaging framework is 3 value proposition pillars, and three
is a nice magic number. It can be four or five if you

(12:03):
have that much unique value, butthe idea is.
What are the three most important messages that someone
needs to know about the benefitsyour product provides that makes
them realize, yes, this is valuable?
To me, and this is different than I can get anywhere else.
And just to continue the handshake example, the three
value prop pillars for us were one, you get data that allows

(12:27):
you to target candidates that you can't find anywhere else.
So you will simply not be able to find this type of data on
LinkedIn, Indeed or any other job platform.
And that lets you be more accurate with your targeting.
The second was the ability to build brand with Gen.
Z college students. So we had modalities and
different ways to stand out because a big pain point for a
lot of the prospective customerswas college students didn't know

(12:50):
their company existed, so how could we get discovered and be
seen as an attractive brand? And then the third key component
was reach. So lots of different ways to
interact with college students through events, messaging, news
feeds, that type of thing to geton their radar.
And that combination of value propositions made us look really
different from the other leadingjob platforms and really

(13:13):
compelling to companies who wanted to.
Hire college. Students, the other nice thing
about these value props is theirbenefit statements, but they're
supported by features. So think about what features and
functionality enable you to deliver each of these buckets of
value, and many times the features you're releasing over
the next six 1218 months. Will reinforce one of those

(13:37):
value prop pillars, so it becomes this consistent way of
talking about your product and how to think about its value.
And then the last but maybe mostimportant part.
Of the messaging framework is proof points.
And so we already talked about one type of proof point features
that prove you can deliver that value.
But the other two types are social proof.
So customer quotes, testimonials, external

(14:00):
endorsements. Press.
Podcast Anything that validates you deliver the value you say
you do from a third party. And then the third piece is data
and information. So how can you quantify the
results? And also how can you think about
long form content guides, other things that support and show
expertise? And all of these proof points

(14:22):
are meant to help a prospect feel more confident that they
can get the results you promisedand that you can actually
deliver those. So this is the messaging.
Framework. It's pretty straightforward.
I have a template for it, but then once you have that, it
almost becomes a wireframe for your homepage or a landing page
that you might create for that customer.

(14:42):
Indeed, because it touched on all the important points.
And often some people might overlook the third one, which is
if you cannot prove it that yoursolution is actually working, no
one will buy it. The thing that people struggle
with because it's often, if you,let's say the second example
that you give at the beginning, the start of that, they build an

(15:04):
amazing product, but they don't have customers yet.
They know the solution is great and so on.
They truly don't have real social proof out there that all
right, this is actually working,this provide these tangible
results for those particular businesses or customers and so
on. How do you make that happen?
What should you do in that situation?

(15:24):
It's such an important question and I was actually at an event
at AVC just a couple nights ago and this was a hot topic because
we were talking to some foundersthat said social proof was the
thing that helped us get traction with our, you know, not
our very first customers, but our next set of customers.
But how do you fast track that? How do you get it when no one's
using your product yet? And so a couple things.

(15:47):
One of the most important and easiest first ways to get social
proof is for design partners to agree that they are going to
give feedback that you can make public and so many technical.
Founders I work with have a period of time where they're
really Co developing the productwith.
Early customers who maybe aren'tpaying at all, who are paying a

(16:09):
very reduced rate, but they're getting lots of feedback and
refining the product. And then those customers with an
asterisk can become that first social proof.
And ideally there's an agreementearly on that they're going to
provide input or a case study ora quote that you can use
publicly. Another couple things I'm seeing

(16:31):
startups due to fast track that some are bringing in advisors
who are either peers to the people they're selling to, like
AVP of a people team or head of engineering, Someone that both
gives the founder a lot of greatexpertise as they're building
the product, but also can be really helpful in the sales
process because this advisor cancome in and say, you know.

(16:54):
This is the exact. Type of product I would have
adopted in my role or that I'm bringing into my company.
And so sometimes that sort of peer validation, oh, OK.
If they've vetted this and they believe it's a great product,
then it gives me more confidence, can be a good fast
track. And then the third thing I'll
say is that customer stories andtestimonials are an important

(17:15):
part of social proof, but earnedmedia and 3rd party endorsements
can be helpful too. Citing who your investors are
can build a lot of confidence incustomers.
But also getting those early wins, guesting on podcasts,
getting early press, finding other influencers or authorities
who, for instance, write newsletters or sub stacks that
get sent to the types of prospects that you're selling to

(17:39):
when you can contribute content or appear in that media, that's
another form of early social proof that can give you some
traction in that third party validation.
Love it. And especially because that's a
super smart way to the the example to give at the beginning
to attract those initial data points.
Because often when someone actually use the tool that you

(18:02):
build in real life situation, that's much more useful than
some random customers that you might get by chance, but they
don't provide any feedback back.They don't have a proper way to
get feedback from them. And on that note, how important
is from a go to market strategy to get that initial data?

(18:23):
And what are other ways to do itin order to ensure that you're
not just building a solution youthink might work?
It's, I mean, I'm surprised by how many startups have found
their way to me and they think they're going to launch in a
couple months or even a couple weeks.
And they've literally never had a real ICP type customer use

(18:45):
their product. And there's this trade off of do
we create a Big Bang launch so we get attention and that'll
bring more customers in, or do we validate first?
I think it's critical. I think it's very important to
build with design partners or have early testing plan to
rapidly iterate on the product, but in tandem, rapidly iterate

(19:06):
on your messaging because you'regetting clearer and clearer on
exactly what are we solving for who and why do they like us,
What is the value we're providing?
And that's what you need to emphasize.
But you're also getting clearer on why would they.
Choose us over other solutions. And sometimes that's tech
solutions, right? Competitors that look similar to

(19:27):
you but for whatever reason you've been able to
differentiate. But many times I see startups
are really competing against theoption to either build in house
and not buy a tool or continue to use kind of a piece meal set
of solutions That's working OK, But as a founder, you know

(19:47):
you've got something that's significantly better because
it's purpose built for solving that problem.
So all that said, that early iteration to get the product
right, get the messaging right, then gives you a lot more
confidence. And so many leaders think of
marketing as lead generation, right?
Filling the top of funnel, getting new customers in the

(20:08):
door. But what happens if you put a
lot of energy into that and thenyou don't have a clear story for
them once they come in either onyour website or in your sales
conversation is it's just a leaky bucket.
Those prospects stall. They don't really understand
what you're talking about. So that rapid iteration early on
to validate and have more fidelity helps you will continue

(20:29):
to iterate on messaging. This is a a never ending process
of honing and it's part of why Ithink it's an essential founder
skill set. It's not just a marketing skill
set. It's anyone who has a founding
role needs to understand how to create and refine messaging over
time because it will forever be a part of your company's
process. But having built with customers

(20:53):
will help you have a lot of confidence as you do go bigger
with your go to market that you're saying things that will
attract and convert the right people.
Yeah, absolutely. Because I think it all boils
down to that. Like when you understand them so
well that when they hear you in your messaging, it's like, oh,
that's me. That's exactly the problem that

(21:13):
I'm facing. That's the solution that I need.
And on the positioning part, like what's your take on this
approach that some people use when it comes to finding a
common enemy? I think creating really clear
contrast with the alternatives is a smart thing to do.
And it doesn't require you making them an enemy

(21:36):
necessarily. You can say they're excellent.
They are just not excellent for you, the customer I'm selling
to. They are excellent for bigger
companies or smaller companies. They're excellent for a
marketing team, not a customer support team, whatever it is,
build a lot of conviction aroundwhat they're good for and what
you're good for. And I think having some really

(21:58):
clear ways of saying they do it this way, we do it that way, or
they approach it with this old system we've built, the new
system can be very helpful because the whole idea here is
to cut through the noise, createdecision shortcuts for prospects
and creating that contrast can really help.

(22:18):
And when it comes to personality, the third P that we
haven't really talked about yet,a nice way to do that is through
both verbal brand identity and visual brand identity.
So it's not just your messages, but how are you showing up in a
way that makes it clear your product is really different from
the other ones they're considering?

(22:38):
Are you more modern? Are you more youthful?
Are you bolder? Are you more supportive and
soft? Anything works as long as it's
creating contrast with the alternative.
And how much of that personalityshould come from the actual
founder or anyone else in the team?
It's going to be a combination of founder and your product

(23:01):
superpowers. And so one of the tools I really
like in developing brand personalities is identifying
your personality archetype, which is an age-old structure.
Carl Jung popularized it, but it's essentially 12
personalities that we as people innately understand.
When we start talking to someone, we get a sense for how

(23:22):
they operate. And you see brands in the world
reflect these personalities. So as an example, the innocent
brand personality, their productsuperpower would be simplifying
things, making something that feels chaotic or challenging
really simple and straightforward for a team to
use. So Notion is an example of an

(23:44):
innocent archetype. It's all about the fundamental
building blocks. Their brand is black and white,
very simple. So everything is cohesive and
drilling home. We will simplify the ability for
your team to bring information together.
Another common one I see with tech startups is the ruler,
which is we take disparate systems, data that's all over

(24:07):
the place, chaos, and we actually structure it into a
system that works every time andis methodical and controlled.
And so many startups that bring together data and help you get a
great answer every time are the ruler archetype.
So I encourage you to think about what is the way we create

(24:28):
transformation for our customers.
Is it through simplifying? Is it through getting things
under control? Is it through motivating them to
achieve a big goal? Is it through our expertise,
which is the sage? And then that helps you come up
with a nuanced way of talking, your verbal brand identity, the
tone you use, the words you use.And it also.

(24:49):
Helps you develop a visual brandidentity that's really congruent
with how you create change for customers.
The reason the founder comes in is they're probably operating as
one of these archetypes already,and so naturally the first
content they're creating likely the way the website sounds and
its first iteration reflects them.

(25:11):
But it's important to ask, does our product create
transformation in the way the founder likes to talk or do we
actually need to evolve past that to really reflect the way
we create change for customers and build affinity for the types
of customers we're selling to with the tone that will resonate
with them? And I think I have a perfect

(25:32):
quick challenge for you here since I know founder, the friend
of mine that he's very tech savvy, so fantastic engineer,
but it's extremely introverted. He's always behind the laptop,
behind the scenes, not showing out there.
And he's the person that builds for over 2 1/2 years of product,
but I think 0 parts of his personality is shown inside the

(25:58):
marketing part. Now his wife is taking over when
it comes to PR and like talking to VCs and so on.
And they still didn't raise any funding yet they have some
interest, some very bad deals they put for them on the table.
They refused so on. How to approach that situation?

(26:19):
Yeah. So I think there's two
components of this. There's the brand identity and
personality which we just talkedabout.
But now we're thinking about founder LED brand building and
it is true and I think truer than ever that the founder doing
what they can to get their company noticed and to build

(26:40):
authority and credibility is extremely helpful both for
fundraising, but also getting early traction with customers
and building brand awareness. And so the first place I would
have that founder start is really think about what types of
content would they feel comfortable creating and putting
out there given their own personality.

(27:02):
Some people, OK, so a good way to sort of hide behind of
business, but which is still helpful is I encourage startups
to create a capsule of content that will help them in the sales
process. And usually there's a series of
topics that help. The 1st is what is content you
would create that builds more problem awareness and
understanding? Because lots of times AI

(27:24):
startups, early stage tech startups are actually tackling
something that is quite cutting edge and a company might not
even realize it's a problem theyhave or that it's solvable yet.
So how can you create more problem awareness?
The second type of content is how can you explain to prospects
the current solutions that are out there and why they're

(27:45):
insufficient, why they're not solving the problem in the way
they they could or should and you've developed a different
way. The third part is just value
prop content. So going back to that messaging
framework, what is content that helps showcase the value and the
results that we deliver and our differentiators.
And then the 4th and 5th bucketsare social proof and data.

(28:07):
So case studies, data, stories, anything that quantifies or
shows proof of results. And the 5th is just product
content. What are guides or other things
you might create for new users you're onboarding or prospects
who are trying to evaluate? How does this product work?
And would this actually be a fitfor me and my team?

(28:27):
Could I imagine us using that? That content will serve you very
well in the sales process. And I can almost guarantee this
person is starting with founder LED sales too, right?
They're having the first sales conversations, but that is also
the type of content that you cansplice up and start posting on
LinkedIn to establish credibility and create a

(28:48):
presence where it's not like a cult of personality.
He doesn't have to put a lot of himself out there, but it's
authoritative, helpful content that if you start to drip out in
the study cadence will get noticed.
And if a prospect is looking into your company and goes to
the founders LinkedIn, it will show their authority in this

(29:09):
space. So that's where I'd start.
You really get sort of A2 for benefit.
You get this long form content that can help with the sales
process. If it sits on your website, it
creates a stronger mid funnel experience and also makes it
more likely you'll show up in SEO and Geo results.
And it finally is content that you can repurpose and post on

(29:29):
LinkedIn. I like that you said his wife is
also going to go for PR and earned media opportunities.
Having a body of content for herto point to, to say, you know,
my husband or this founder is authoritative in this topic will
also help her land those guest spots or feel like a credible

(29:49):
source for a journalist to reachout to.
So that's where I'd start. Yeah.
The only thing is that he's not putting himself out there at
all. So it's completely out of the
picture. And I think that's the main
challenge there any way to succeed like that if you don't
create yourself content, He should approach AI approach to

(30:11):
content, create a avatar or something, or should go out of
this like fear of showing up andjust break breakthrough the ice.
I think yes, it's still possibleto be successful and I can talk
about that in a moment. But I would say if they want to
get any traction via social media specifically, it will be

(30:33):
important for the founder to post something.
Doesn't mean he has to put his own personal views out there,
but there needs to be content related to what he's building in
the company. And that's where having a body
of content that's actually serving a purpose in the sales
process and just posting 3 insights or a quote or pieces
from that can be very helpful. A founder will get more traction

(30:55):
through their own page, on LinkedIn, through the company
page. And if the idea is let's try to
reach the right prospects, if that's a key goal, I would
really encourage him to find a way that preserves his own
desire not to feel in the spotlight.
But still, he's posting meaningful content.
But to the core question of can you succeed as a startup without

(31:17):
putting yourself out there? Yes, because ultimately the goal
is to get your product and its value in front of the people
that need it most. And so even without a social
media or an earned media presence, if this founder
himself or through a team is going to events or participating

(31:38):
in communities or going to a place where their prospects
already gather or showing up in a media outlet where an
influencer that's already reaching these people is going.
The idea is, where are people that you want to influence and
reach already going? And who are they listening to
and how can you show up there? There are ways to do that

(31:59):
without feeling like you have toput yourself out there on social
media. And then the second bucket is
just outbound, you know, leveraging your network and warm
connections and then slowly building a strategic outbound
marketing program to reach your prospects and tell them about
your product. Again, that does not necessarily
require a social media presence or a big personality.

(32:20):
That's just sort of a go to market motion that gets you in
front of the right people and starts to pull them into ideally
a set of content and experiencesthat help them get to know your
product and then invites them into a sales conversation.
Yeah, and all of these are possible and even the social
media one or to earn your attention to other means, media,

(32:46):
podcast and so on. Because yeah, if I think just
the true example about myself being on podcasts, hosting my
own podcast was never a small thought in my mind just a few
years ago. And I was an introvert as well.
At least I consider myself one. And if you do certain things.
So to my friend, if you're listening, just try record

(33:09):
something that you don't intend to put out there just for
yourself. And slowly, slowly, you'll be
able to do so put yourself out there.
And but that that thing that youmentioned to, to be where they
are. How do you identify as the
founder the right rooms to to stay in?
Because for example, in this example, his wife attend a lot

(33:32):
of events, but most of them are rest of time.
How do you separate from those that potentially you'll just go
travel there, spend a lot of money on flights and so on, and
you'll just spend a few days without any results, right?
I think there's two interrelatedbut different goals of being

(33:52):
where people are. One is building your own
credibility and authority, and it's you as the founder.
But really any leaders at your company, how can they be viewed
as credible leaders in your space, which will help you in
the sales process? But then there's the demand Gen.
aspect of it. How do we get in front of
prospects so they know about ourproduct and want to learn more

(34:13):
and are open to a sales conversation?
So. How in in any part of your
marketing strategy, how do you figure out what to test and
where you want to go depends in huge part on that first P
question. The what is your ICP and who are
the exact types of people you need to reach?
And if there's an industry event, but the types of people

(34:35):
who you need to reach and influence to get into a company
aren't going to be there, that'sthe wrong event for you.
So being very clear eyed and honest, there are many channels
that would work for one startup that would be the exact wrong
fit for another startup because they're selling to different
people who are influenced in different way and gather in
different spaces. So for instance, I'm working

(34:55):
with one startup right now who they are selling to developers
and those developers aren't gathering live and person at
conferences, but they're very vocal in a set of communities
where they're sharing information related to this
product and the product. It's all the problem it solves.
So the product leader from this company is in those communities

(35:16):
daily, really just participatingin conversations, but it's
building up his profile and at certain times he's able to talk
about their product and how it'ssolving the problem and show
authority. So that's an example of that
would be the wrong fit for one company, but it's the perfect
fit for them. The other thing I'd say
specifically about live events is sometimes having the booth or

(35:39):
walking the floor isn't the bestway to meet people.
It's often what's happening outside.
The event I see is what's working for startups.
So how can you pull to get people together in a coffee or a
workshop or a happy hour that promises value?
That is not just you're going tohear a sales pitch, but it's
talking about the latest changesand things that are happening in

(36:03):
your industry or with a problem solving.
And if someone hears that topic,they think, oh, I would love to
know that even if I'm not interested in the product.
So it makes it worth my time. That's how founders tend to be
able to get people to come and talk to them and engage and then
that opens the door to more conversations.
I love that example. And there is a famous founder,

(36:27):
he's from UK, Daniel Priestley, that he moved from Australia.
The first thing that he did, he organized an event in which he
brought some influenced people that he invited them.
And just by managing to get one famous name into the event, he
mentioned that name after that to the others, this person is
coming and so on and invited to dinner.

(36:49):
And then him as the organizer hosted a small talk, a few
minutes, introduce himself, whathe's up for and so on.
And that led him to run and launch multiple start-ups.
So I guess he built already thatnetwork from the get go, but
obviously that needs certain type of personality and
experience. I want to pivot a bit to to

(37:11):
hiring because you build numerous teams at Tandek
Handshake from seriously to unicorns.
Like what should be the first hire for a founder when maybe
they already get some seeds around already or at different
stage and so on. What they should hire first?

(37:32):
Yes. So I see marketing teams tend to
develop in a relatively similar series of stages, but the first
hires tend to not be the first marketing leader or even the
first full time marketer, but tends to be a set of specialist
freelancers or agencies that canhelp the founders start to test

(37:53):
key parts of their marketing strategy.
Oftentimes a content writer and a designer are great first hires
because that allows the founder to not have to spend a lot of
their time developing some of the longer form content or the
social posts, but lets them leverage someone.
And now with AI, they might be able to get away without a
writer, but there's still a lot of editing and formatting and

(38:17):
other things that are required to really get into a consistent
content flow. So often times a freelance hire
there can be helpful designer just to not borrow frequently
from the product design team that is probably already
overwhelmed to be able to createcritical assets.
And then sometimes, depending onyour ICP and persona that you're

(38:38):
going after, you might want to spend on a PR freelancer or
agency or potentially test some paid ads or ABM type ads early
on. All of that can be done without
a full time hire, but then what tends to happen is at some point
it's too much for the founder tohandle on top of all of their

(38:58):
other responsibilities. And so the first full time
marketing hire, the sweet spot tends to be someone who's got
enough experience that they can run parts of the strategy from
scratch. They are not intimidated by
coming into a very bare bones situation, but they are not so

(39:19):
senior that they feel like they need to hire a team.
The moment they come in to get the work done, they're ready to
be hands on. And so that's a particular type
of profile. And it's usually someone who's
motivated by that blank page andthe desire to build the
potential upside of the equity and the prospects of the
company. They feel very passionate about
the idea and they want to see this thing grow.

(39:41):
And they're motivated by the idea that if they do a great
job, they very likely will get permission to hire and have
resources. And so that first marketing
hire, I like to think of it as amajor and a minor.
You're usually either hiring someone who's got strong demand
Gen. experience because your main company goal is
acquisition. And so you're hiring someone who

(40:03):
has managed campaigns and programs to attract and convert
prospects or get leads to the sales team.
Or you're hiring someone with a major in product marketing
who's? Main goal is figuring out these
questions of who are we targeting, who are our
competitors, why are we different and better making sure
the website, sales enablement, collateral and other content is

(40:26):
in great shape and eventually taking on feature launches and
customer retention type activities.
But your first marketer needs tospike in one of these areas but
be able to do the other thing. And then usually the second hire
is the person who majors in their minor, if that makes
sense. So if you hired a very strong
demand leader, your second hire would very likely be a strong

(40:48):
product marketer to balance thatout and have really the full set
of capabilities that a marketingteam needs as you continue to
build out and scale up. Nice.
And I think this is the most interesting part of the start up
phases because often hiring is such a tricky situation, but at
the same time is like a lot of testing, a lot of challenging

(41:10):
moments. But when you made that amazing
hire and you build the product further, you managed to put it
in the hands of the clients, then the wind starts to come in
and you're like, oh, I made the right decision.
And on that note, what you should look out for when there
are some maybe red flags or things That is all right, so

(41:32):
maybe I need to fire now or how fast you should fire actually,
Yeah, I think there's firing forunderperformance versus letting
someone go for fit like they areno longer the right person given
the strategy your company needs to grow.
And I see both happen at startups early stage and growth
stage. And so if you're seeing

(41:53):
underperformance, I would say act fast.
And I've made some mistakes in my own career where I didn't act
fast enough and it drags the team down.
And you have to remember that anytime you need to replace
someone, it's probably going to take a minimum of three months
to find, interview, get approvalfor and get someone in seat.

(42:13):
So you're just delaying the inevitable many times if you do
have to let someone go for performance, that that role was
very vital. Today there are increasingly
more freelancers, fractionals, agencies that could step in for
a time period and give you the time you need to vet the right

(42:33):
full time person because rushinginto a full time hire again can
be very costly and challenging. But the other thing is fit.
And I really appreciate founderswho say this person is
incredibly skilled, they are great at their job.
It is just not what we need anymore as part of our marketing
mix or we don't need someone whose full time role is managing

(42:55):
SEO because we're pivoting to something that SEO is not going
to be the main driver of new leads and so we actually need.
To use that. Full time role, budget and
capacity for someone who's got adifferent skill set.
And so again, I would act quickly, but there are sometimes
ways to create a bridge role forthat person where they step in
as a contractor and continue their work at a reduced, reduced

(43:17):
rate or for reduced period of time.
I just think there's more flexible arrangements today than
there were even five years ago. And that's very advantageous for
founders who need to move quickly and can't afford to have
big gaps in talent for months ata time when those months are
extremely precious. When you think about what it

(43:38):
takes to get fast traction and when startups high, are you
often advisors are coming at different stages, different
parts. So I would love to know when a
start up comes to us. Alison, you're the person to
help me with this. Yeah, I find there are really
three main situations that I come into.
So the first is early stage technical founder who is hands

(44:03):
on with almost everything is running a very lean team and
they themselves want to do what they can to get their messaging,
their website, their sales deck into a better place.
But they also realize they just have a gap in what is marketing.
They have no frameworks in theirmind for how to organize a
marketing strategy to really even know what components come

(44:26):
into that. And so we are working on some
essential things including messaging and positioning, full
funnel demands and strategy. How do you think about top of
funnel, mid funnel and bottom offunnel?
We're thinking about content strategy to fuel the sales
process, but also to build theirfounder brand as we talked
about. And then sometimes we're
actually working toward a launch, whether it's, you know,

(44:48):
their first public launch of thecompany or a significant new
feature or they're pivoting to anew customer segment because
they've really found product market fit.
So those are situations where founder is usually very hands on
and maybe they have a chief of staff or another person that
they're pulling in that also doesn't have a marketing
background. So I'm coaching that whole
group. The second situation tends to be

(45:11):
the first head of marketing, whois this profile that we talked
about that's, you know, not managing A-Team yet, but has
enough expertise to be dangerous.
But they've probably taken on more scope than they've ever had
in any role of their lives. They're working with a founder
who doesn't really understand marketing and they are
fragmented. They are overwhelmed.

(45:33):
And yet they're so hungry. They want to achieve these big
goals. And so it's a mix of coaching
them on strategy, but also how to navigate, think about
building the team, think about how to advocate for themselves
and educate their founder on theright way to assess the
marketing strategy and initiatives.
It's also working with the founder to help them best

(45:54):
support that marketer and help them do their best work because
that can be a challenging relationship.
Not to mention there's all theseother cross functional
dependencies. How is that head of marketing
working with product, with sales, with customer support?
So it's a tricky role. I've been in that role.
And so now it's amazing to support these awesome leaders
who are going into that. And then the third one I'd

(46:15):
highlight is I often work with series C companies.
For some reason, it's always Series C that are in a growth
stage, but they are having to make a major pivot.
So potentially something's really just shifted with their
competitor. And so the way they've
positioned themselves isn't working anymore.
So they need a major messaging and maybe brand refresh overhaul

(46:36):
or they've decided to pivot their product.
And this is happening a lot right now as legacy companies
are building AI products and trying to figure out how to go
to market with that. And they just need someone with
a laser focus on how do we take this new thing to market and how
do we go back to basics, defining the ideal customer, the

(46:57):
competitive set positioning, refreshing our entire website,
etcetera. And so I'm coaching often a
pretty big established team through that process because
it's so deep in the day-to-day that it's hard to pull back and
say, how would we do this over athree to six month period to go
to market with this new thing. And if any of these three
categories are listening to us now, where they should reach out

(47:20):
to you, I'd love to hear from you.
You can go to my website, allisonliteri.com, and it's very
easy to contact me from there. You can also find me on LinkedIn
at allisonliteri. And either place is a great way
to reach me. Awesome.
And for anyone watching or listening, the links will be
down below us. And Allison, I want to conclude
with a short trip back in time. You're still an employee and

(47:47):
you're about to live and start your advisory role.
What do you really tell younger Allison in that moment?
Well, first, I'd say it's going to be awesome because this has
been my favorite role ever, working with a wide variety of
startups that are just making waves in the world and they're

(48:09):
changing our lives for the better.
So it's an honor and an amazing role to be able to do.
But something I really faced in the years leading up to this
transition was do I have enough experience?
You know, will this be viable? Will anyone hire me and how far?
How long should I keep going before I can be a credible and

(48:30):
really effective advisor? And I'd say that staying through
a couple full time roles, building out teams at seriously
startups was a smart thing to dobecause it gave me more breadth
and depth of experience, just gave me more reps I saw more
things. I got, you know, more experience
and more marketing areas. And I think that depth and

(48:53):
breadth has made me a much more effective advisor.
Not to mention, I just got to manage more people and that's
really helped me as I coach. So I'd say keep going.
The future is bright, but all ofthe experience that is hard won
will be worth it and will sort of make the next phase even
better. This was Allison Letteri on
Authority in the World.

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#133 - Product-Market Fit Is Dead (Here's What Replaced It) w/ Allyson Letteri

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;} #133 - Product-Market Fit Is Dead (Here's What Replaced It) w/ Allyson Letteri