September 10, 2024 • 14 mins
In a heartfelt and candid conversation, we highlight the emotional struggles faced by creative individuals in traditional education systems. Katrina opens up about battling shyness and social awkwardness, and how substances like marijuana played a role in her creative and emotional exploration.
Discover how these experiences underscore the importance of supportive environments for nurturing artistic youth, and explore the nuanced relationship between personal growth, creativity, and substance use. Tune in for an episode rich with personal anecdotes, transformative moments, and profound insights.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The Earth is so big, it makes me feel so small, as I
should, as I should I don't knowif people can hear this, but I
believe that's your mom.
Yeah.
Working with some students,yeah yeah, if you hear like a
(00:39):
little like quiet piano lessonin the background, yes, that's
my mom teaching upstairs.
Um, so we're in my house whereI live and my mom lives upstairs
and we run a music schoolcalled musical mind studios.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Can people find musical mind studios online
somewhere?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yes.
I believe musical mindstudioscom musical mind
studioscom.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
okay, I'll, I'll find a link for that and I'll put it
up, and then is there afacebook page or an instagram
account or social media for it?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
you know, there, I don't think there is actually
yeah we have a website and andthat's uh that's the extent of
it.
That's probably a good idea ifwe like did some social media,
but oh my goodness, that'sanother page to add to the pages
of maintenance.
Why am I doing that?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh, there are so many more fun things to do than
social media, but it might besomething to think about yeah,
you're right, who knows?
Uh, but where?
Where can people find you?
How many?
How?
How did you get started inmusic?
Actually, let's start at thebeginning.
What does that journey looklike for you?
Because you are an incrediblemusician, an incredible vocalist
(02:00):
and you're you make you makeentertaining and creating that
space for fun andself-expression look effortless.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, I definitely have gotten to a place where I
feel comfortable in the space ofchaos and uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, I get that chaos and uncertainty.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I get that.
I mean, my parents met incollege, so they're musicians.
My dad played trumpet and mymom played piano.
They were in a band together,so I come from a musical, you
know, mom and dad.
Uh, so I learned I startedlearning piano at age four.
Wow, um, you know the whole,like my mom's a piano teacher,
she started teaching piano whenshe was like 15 or 16, something
(02:55):
like that.
Okay, she bought her firstpiano.
It's we still have it, it's aSteinway and it's like in the
other, in a teaching space here.
So we have uh it, it, uh it.
Anyway, I was getting back tothe musical mind studios, back
to what is my musical journey.
Um, I was in an orchestra inmiddle school, so I played
violin okay, is that did.
(03:18):
I see that is that the violinthat's over there, that's like a
violin we've inherited because,running a music school, some
people be like, hey, we havethis instrument, do you want it?
And okay, of course we're like,yeah, sure, even if it doesn't
maybe work or it's not.
So that violin I I don't know,I really haven't picked that up.
We also have a cello.
(03:38):
We also have like a harpupstairs that's like from the
70s.
Okay, you know, I just boughtthat at a garage sale, that what
is that so?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
for people who can't see, it looks like a pyramid
made of silver tubes it's like aglockenspiel a glockenspiel.
Yeah, you know, like I like tosay that yeah, yeah, and you
just hit it with mallets okay,so is it.
So is it always sitting thatway?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
No, it's just sitting there like an art piece right
now.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
It is very artistic.
Is it played like a xylophonethen?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, yeah, a xylophone.
They're all like I'm probablysaying the wrong one.
It's probably not aglockenspiel, but it's in that
family of vibes.
You could have kept going withthat I never would have known,
and I'm not going to show them.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So it's definitely a glockenspiel.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Definitely is so a choir.
I did choir in high school.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Did you get all as in music when you were in school?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I tried out for the jazz choir in high school and I
never got in.
And I found out later that itwas because Mr Cox, like I don't
know, thought I was a bad kid.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
But he thought you were a bad kid and so he
wouldn't let you be in choir inthe jazz.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, maybe he thought I wouldn't show up, or
whatever, I don't know, I justyou know.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Have you seen him since then?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Oh yeah, like after I built a career in music.
Yeah, I saw him after and youknow, I don't know.
I mean like I didn't like makeit a point to be like guess what
I'm doing now, mr.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I definitely didn't mean it like that.
Let me I'll clarify a littlebit.
So I asked that because Ididn't graduate from high school
.
I got expelled my senior yearfor smoking weed at school too
often.
So I got, I got busted and theprincipal at the time his name
was maybe I.
I probably could say it, Idon't know, it's irrelevant
(05:43):
anyway.
So this guy was a real hard assback then and so I got expelled
and then my mom sent me to aplace and it was rehab she made
me go to rehab for smoking pot.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Oh man, yeah, I went to rehab too.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
We can talk about that.
I learned a lot.
Actually I did too, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
In the adolescent and the adult facility because I
went twice.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Hey, I did too.
I definitely did too.
So I ran into this principle, Ithink, like literally 20 years
later and I didn't rub it in hisface or anything me.
It ended up getting me out ofMontana, so, and then I ended up
joining the air force.
So it was this impetus tochanging my entire life.
But when I met, when I saw him,it was actually ended up being
(06:38):
at a random gym, I was having aworkout and I was like yo, are
you this person?
And he's like, yeah, I'm likeI'm Andrew.
He's like, yeah, I'm like I'mAndrew, you expelled me from
high school.
He's like I remember I nevershould have done that.
That was the last thing Ishould have done to it for a kid
like you who was going throughthose things that you were going
through, and I was like I wasshocked, Wow, it was such a
beautiful moment to like connectwith him again and say you know
(07:01):
like there's no hard feelingsfor me.
It did change my life, butbecause I made choices like
school wasn't really for meanyway, but just to hear that he
had done his work on himself,to realize like disciplining
troubled youth in that way andkicking them out of school is
(07:21):
like the last thing you shoulddo to help them.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
The opposite.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, really, it really is so.
That's why I was asking umabout mr cox.
Mr cox, I'm sorry for sayingyou might be good if you listen
to this, but um, yeah, that'swhy I was curious if you'd ever
run into them again, because Ihad a story that related to that
mine was more like yeah, I, Ithink I went to a high school
(07:47):
concert or something, andbecause I had a couple students
in his choir, so okay, that'spretty cool.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So it was like so I think, I think in in time, I
think maybe he was like allright, cool, she turned out all
right.
You know so that just was mykind of like.
See, I'm not totally bad kid,maybe wild, maybe a little wild
person, but you know.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I'm curious what you think about this, because what I
see from creatives almost,almost across the board is that
we generally didn't fit in thetraditional education system.
We generally are labeled asbeing antisocial from the
clinical sense of the word,where, like we don't fit into
the mold, we do kind of what wewant or a lot of very
(08:36):
exploratory in our sensateexperience, where we want to try
everything and do everything,and then the creative part of us
is a universal translator thatcan come back to the normies
essentially and be like hey, wewent out into the world and this
is what we found and this is abeautiful art that we can make
for you now, because we did thatDoesn't fit in the box so well.
(08:59):
How does that hit for you whenI share that what comes up?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
uh, well, what comes up is uh, I definitely was a
very, very shy kid.
It like painfully shy but Ireally wanted to like sing and
like I don't know just somesomething had to come out of me
(09:26):
where it was like had to performbeyond stage.
But I was so painfully shy itwas like socially a bit awkward.
You know, like parents wentthrough a divorce when I was
eight, so I was, I grew up in aChristian school until then and
then all of a sudden I was inpublic school, like what the
fuck these people are mean kindof a thing you know it was.
(09:48):
Yeah, it was like very jarringwhen, when I was around that age
and you know, I was like Idon't know considered popular
when I was at the Christianschools and then when that, when
I changed over, um, I was likeI was basically like a nerd,
(10:10):
like like a poor nerd, like thepiano teachers like the helps
kidyou know, cause on Mercer Island
, cause there's lots of moneyhere, so coming here with is
like my mom is a single parentwith four kids because my dad's
parents were here so they reallywere helpful.
They helped out a lot, um,which was great.
(10:33):
They lived just down the streetfrom the high school, yeah, so
we'd go there for lunch, youknow, some days, um, yeah, so
that I don't know.
That definitely shapes, I think.
And then, being so painfullyshy, I definitely used
(10:54):
substances to like break throughthat during my teenagehood, my
high school years, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
What does that experience look like for you?
Do you have a particular storythat comes up right away, that
was incredibly transformative,or what do you feel is important
?
What do you feel is important?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Well, I think part of the thing that people have
being a musician is that you arereally sensitive and attuned to
things like to emotions, tovibrations, to like someone
walking into the room, Like youcan tell, like the energy
changes Right and for whateverthat is being sensitive our our
(11:45):
childhood traumas, you know,it's like being an empath,
whatever it is.
I just definitely was sosensitive that it was like
that's what I'm saying sopainful.
So, of course, of course, ofcourse I'm going to be
susceptible to substances andwant to numb that, numb that
(12:09):
feeling, numb that pain.
And then being a teenager on topof it, where your fucking
hormones and emotions?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I can swear right yeah, oh, you can say whatever
the fuck you want say whateverthe fuck you want.
I mean nowadays, yeah, you cansay whatever the fuck you want.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I mean nowadays, yeah , you can say whatever the fuck
you want.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It's true yeah, a little swearing's, not a big
deal yeah it's.
Everything we're talking aboutare actual facts facts, y'all
yeah, first of all.
I mean I'm so surprised to hearthat you were ever shy, but
that's.
It's funny.
You say that because I feltlike an awkward ugly duckling
for almost until a couple weeksago.
Really, no, maybe not like thatextreme, but I was a.
(12:49):
I was a very shy kid, maybe notinitially, but there was a lot
of fear drilled into my life.
And then I love being on stageand performing, much like you
you had said.
But I never would have guessedthat you were ever shy,
especially now, knowing also yougrew up with music in your life
(13:10):
and that you had put in thework and effort to sharpen those
skills and to create thatability to flow seamlessly in
that space.
Ability to flow seamlessly inthat space.
What did you find?
Maybe, maybe that's not thebest question, but I am curious.
What was your?
What was your drug of choice?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
oh, in high school, like everything everything like
whatever I could get my hands onit was like let's you know, and
and as many as at the same timeas possible.
There was just sometimes it waslike that, it was like seven
things, you know, but I thinkoverall, if I think about it, I
(13:54):
mean, if you want to consider ita drug, marijuana.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, it definitely is.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
It's definitely a substance.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, marijuana yeah it definitely, is definitely a
substance.
Yeah, I think with that,specifically with cannabis, it's
it's very dependent, notdependent I believe, that
marijuana is very responsive tothe individual's intention of
use.
So if you're going into thatrelationship with marijuana and
you don't want to feel anything.
(14:21):
The plant will answer you ifyou're going into that
relationship with marijuana andyou don't want to feel anything,
the plant will answer you.
If you're going into that placeand you want to do some deep
healing work, the plant willanswer you.
That's been my experience whatdo?
I want.
What am I coming to do thisritual with this plant?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, yeah.
And for weed it's likedefinitely creativity, you know,
definitely like opening themind for creativity or cleaning
you know yeah.
The Earth is so big, it makes me feel so small, as I
should, as I should I don't knowif people can hear this, but I
believe that's your mom.
Yeah.
Working with some students,yeah yeah, if you hear like a
(00:39):
little like quiet piano lessonin the background, yes, that's
my mom teaching upstairs.
Um, so we're in my house whereI live and my mom lives upstairs
and we run a music schoolcalled musical mind studios.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Can people find musical mind studios online
somewhere?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yes.
I believe musical mindstudioscom musical mind
studioscom.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
okay, I'll, I'll find a link for that and I'll put it
up, and then is there afacebook page or an instagram
account or social media for it?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
you know, there, I don't think there is actually
yeah we have a website and andthat's uh that's the extent of
it.
That's probably a good idea ifwe like did some social media,
but oh my goodness, that'sanother page to add to the pages
of maintenance.
Why am I doing that?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh, there are so many more fun things to do than
social media, but it might besomething to think about yeah,
you're right, who knows?
Uh, but where?
Where can people find you?
How many?
How?
How did you get started inmusic?
Actually, let's start at thebeginning.
What does that journey looklike for you?
Because you are an incrediblemusician, an incredible vocalist
(02:00):
and you're you make you makeentertaining and creating that
space for fun andself-expression look effortless.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, I definitely have gotten to a place where I
feel comfortable in the space ofchaos and uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, I get that chaos and uncertainty.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I get that.
I mean, my parents met incollege, so they're musicians.
My dad played trumpet and mymom played piano.
They were in a band together,so I come from a musical, you
know, mom and dad.
Uh, so I learned I startedlearning piano at age four.
Wow, um, you know the whole,like my mom's a piano teacher,
she started teaching piano whenshe was like 15 or 16, something
(02:55):
like that.
Okay, she bought her firstpiano.
It's we still have it, it's aSteinway and it's like in the
other, in a teaching space here.
So we have uh it, it, uh it.
Anyway, I was getting back tothe musical mind studios, back
to what is my musical journey.
Um, I was in an orchestra inmiddle school, so I played
violin okay, is that did.
(03:18):
I see that is that the violinthat's over there, that's like a
violin we've inherited because,running a music school, some
people be like, hey, we havethis instrument, do you want it?
And okay, of course we're like,yeah, sure, even if it doesn't
maybe work or it's not.
So that violin I I don't know,I really haven't picked that up.
We also have a cello.
(03:38):
We also have like a harpupstairs that's like from the
70s.
Okay, you know, I just boughtthat at a garage sale, that what
is that so?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
for people who can't see, it looks like a pyramid
made of silver tubes it's like aglockenspiel a glockenspiel.
Yeah, you know, like I like tosay that yeah, yeah, and you
just hit it with mallets okay,so is it.
So is it always sitting thatway?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
No, it's just sitting there like an art piece right
now.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
It is very artistic.
Is it played like a xylophonethen?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, yeah, a xylophone.
They're all like I'm probablysaying the wrong one.
It's probably not aglockenspiel, but it's in that
family of vibes.
You could have kept going withthat I never would have known,
and I'm not going to show them.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So it's definitely a glockenspiel.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Definitely is so a choir.
I did choir in high school.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Did you get all as in music when you were in school?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I tried out for the jazz choir in high school and I
never got in.
And I found out later that itwas because Mr Cox, like I don't
know, thought I was a bad kid.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
But he thought you were a bad kid and so he
wouldn't let you be in choir inthe jazz.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, maybe he thought I wouldn't show up, or
whatever, I don't know, I justyou know.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Have you seen him since then?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Oh yeah, like after I built a career in music.
Yeah, I saw him after and youknow, I don't know.
I mean like I didn't like makeit a point to be like guess what
I'm doing now, mr.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I definitely didn't mean it like that.
Let me I'll clarify a littlebit.
So I asked that because Ididn't graduate from high school
.
I got expelled my senior yearfor smoking weed at school too
often.
So I got, I got busted and theprincipal at the time his name
was maybe I.
I probably could say it, Idon't know, it's irrelevant
(05:43):
anyway.
So this guy was a real hard assback then and so I got expelled
and then my mom sent me to aplace and it was rehab she made
me go to rehab for smoking pot.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Oh man, yeah, I went to rehab too.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
We can talk about that.
I learned a lot.
Actually I did too, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
In the adolescent and the adult facility because I
went twice.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Hey, I did too.
I definitely did too.
So I ran into this principle, Ithink, like literally 20 years
later and I didn't rub it in hisface or anything me.
It ended up getting me out ofMontana, so, and then I ended up
joining the air force.
So it was this impetus tochanging my entire life.
But when I met, when I saw him,it was actually ended up being
(06:38):
at a random gym, I was having aworkout and I was like yo, are
you this person?
And he's like, yeah, I'm likeI'm Andrew.
He's like, yeah, I'm like I'mAndrew, you expelled me from
high school.
He's like I remember I nevershould have done that.
That was the last thing Ishould have done to it for a kid
like you who was going throughthose things that you were going
through, and I was like I wasshocked, Wow, it was such a
beautiful moment to like connectwith him again and say you know
(07:01):
like there's no hard feelingsfor me.
It did change my life, butbecause I made choices like
school wasn't really for meanyway, but just to hear that he
had done his work on himself,to realize like disciplining
troubled youth in that way andkicking them out of school is
(07:21):
like the last thing you shoulddo to help them.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
The opposite.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, really, it really is so.
That's why I was asking umabout mr cox.
Mr cox, I'm sorry for sayingyou might be good if you listen
to this, but um, yeah, that'swhy I was curious if you'd ever
run into them again, because Ihad a story that related to that
mine was more like yeah, I, Ithink I went to a high school
(07:47):
concert or something, andbecause I had a couple students
in his choir, so okay, that'spretty cool.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So it was like so I think, I think in in time, I
think maybe he was like allright, cool, she turned out all
right.
You know so that just was mykind of like.
See, I'm not totally bad kid,maybe wild, maybe a little wild
person, but you know.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I'm curious what you think about this, because what I
see from creatives almost,almost across the board is that
we generally didn't fit in thetraditional education system.
We generally are labeled asbeing antisocial from the
clinical sense of the word,where, like we don't fit into
the mold, we do kind of what wewant or a lot of very
(08:36):
exploratory in our sensateexperience, where we want to try
everything and do everything,and then the creative part of us
is a universal translator thatcan come back to the normies
essentially and be like hey, wewent out into the world and this
is what we found and this is abeautiful art that we can make
for you now, because we did thatDoesn't fit in the box so well.
(08:59):
How does that hit for you whenI share that what comes up?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
uh, well, what comes up is uh, I definitely was a
very, very shy kid.
It like painfully shy but Ireally wanted to like sing and
like I don't know just somesomething had to come out of me
(09:26):
where it was like had to performbeyond stage.
But I was so painfully shy itwas like socially a bit awkward.
You know, like parents wentthrough a divorce when I was
eight, so I was, I grew up in aChristian school until then and
then all of a sudden I was inpublic school, like what the
fuck these people are mean kindof a thing you know it was.
(09:48):
Yeah, it was like very jarringwhen, when I was around that age
and you know, I was like Idon't know considered popular
when I was at the Christianschools and then when that, when
I changed over, um, I was likeI was basically like a nerd,
(10:10):
like like a poor nerd, like thepiano teachers like the helps
kidyou know, cause on Mercer Island
, cause there's lots of moneyhere, so coming here with is
like my mom is a single parentwith four kids because my dad's
parents were here so they reallywere helpful.
They helped out a lot, um,which was great.
(10:33):
They lived just down the streetfrom the high school, yeah, so
we'd go there for lunch, youknow, some days, um, yeah, so
that I don't know.
That definitely shapes, I think.
And then, being so painfullyshy, I definitely used
(10:54):
substances to like break throughthat during my teenagehood, my
high school years, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
What does that experience look like for you?
Do you have a particular storythat comes up right away, that
was incredibly transformative,or what do you feel is important
?
What do you feel is important?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Well, I think part of the thing that people have
being a musician is that you arereally sensitive and attuned to
things like to emotions, tovibrations, to like someone
walking into the room, Like youcan tell, like the energy
changes Right and for whateverthat is being sensitive our our
(11:45):
childhood traumas, you know,it's like being an empath,
whatever it is.
I just definitely was sosensitive that it was like
that's what I'm saying sopainful.
So, of course, of course, ofcourse I'm going to be
susceptible to substances andwant to numb that, numb that
(12:09):
feeling, numb that pain.
And then being a teenager on topof it, where your fucking
hormones and emotions?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I can swear right yeah, oh, you can say whatever
the fuck you want say whateverthe fuck you want.
I mean nowadays, yeah, you cansay whatever the fuck you want.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I mean nowadays, yeah , you can say whatever the fuck
you want.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It's true yeah, a little swearing's, not a big
deal yeah it's.
Everything we're talking aboutare actual facts facts, y'all
yeah, first of all.
I mean I'm so surprised to hearthat you were ever shy, but
that's.
It's funny.
You say that because I feltlike an awkward ugly duckling
for almost until a couple weeksago.
Really, no, maybe not like thatextreme, but I was a.
(12:49):
I was a very shy kid, maybe notinitially, but there was a lot
of fear drilled into my life.
And then I love being on stageand performing, much like you
you had said.
But I never would have guessedthat you were ever shy,
especially now, knowing also yougrew up with music in your life
(13:10):
and that you had put in thework and effort to sharpen those
skills and to create thatability to flow seamlessly in
that space.
Ability to flow seamlessly inthat space.
What did you find?
Maybe, maybe that's not thebest question, but I am curious.
What was your?
What was your drug of choice?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
oh, in high school, like everything everything like
whatever I could get my hands onit was like let's you know, and
and as many as at the same timeas possible.
There was just sometimes it waslike that, it was like seven
things, you know, but I thinkoverall, if I think about it, I
(13:54):
mean, if you want to consider ita drug, marijuana.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, it definitely is.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
It's definitely a substance.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, marijuana yeah it definitely, is definitely a
substance.
Yeah, I think with that,specifically with cannabis, it's
it's very dependent, notdependent I believe, that
marijuana is very responsive tothe individual's intention of
use.
So if you're going into thatrelationship with marijuana and
you don't want to feel anything.
(14:21):
The plant will answer you ifyou're going into that
relationship with marijuana andyou don't want to feel anything,
the plant will answer you.
If you're going into that placeand you want to do some deep
healing work, the plant willanswer you.
That's been my experience whatdo?
I want.
What am I coming to do thisritual with this plant?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, yeah.
And for weed it's likedefinitely creativity, you know,
definitely like opening themind for creativity or cleaning
you know yeah.
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