February 6, 2025 • 42 mins
This episode features Josh Blum and John Vance.
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This episode was recorded on February 3, 2025.
Today's discussion focuses on a multifamily fire incident in Fairfield, Ohio, showcasing the use of the Blue Card command system and effective communication. We explore the coordination between multiple fire departments, the execution of rescues, and the importance of maintaining a unified incident action plan for successful emergency responses.
• Breakdown of the Fairfield fire incident and initial challenges
• Importance of training under a unified command system
• Analysis of dispatch audio for situational awareness
• Victim rescue operations and prioritization of life safety
• The collaboration among multiple fire departments during the response
• Reflection on the tactical truth behind effective incident management
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome everyone to the B Shifter podcast.
John Vance here along with JoshBloom, and today we're talking
about multi-unit, multi-familyfires.
We're going to have some audiofrom Fairfield, ohio, coming up
featuring a fire with a rescueBlue Card Region, and you can
see how regionally Blue Cardworks when we play that audio
(00:28):
back coming up in just a fewmoments.
First of all, hello, josh, howare you?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm doing good, John Doing really good.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
How about yourself?
I'm doing great.
You know it's already.
We're well into 2025.
January went by like Januarytypically does cold and snowy
here where I am, and that'llcontinue on.
But before we know it, not onlyare we going to be around
springtime with FDIC and allthose activities, the 2025 Blue
(00:59):
Card Hazard Zone Conference,which will be back in the
Cincinnati area at theSharonville Convention Center on
September 30th through October3rd, this year we've added some
workshops.
What do we have for theparticipants this year, if they
were interested in thepre-conference workshops,
because two of the days onSeptember 2nd and 3rd will be
(01:20):
the general sessions and thenbreakout sessions, which 15
different instructors?
But we also have somepre-conference offerings.
What are those this year, josh?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, so the pre-conference workshops were
the Mayday Workshop that we'vebeen doing for years.
We had a hundred and somepeople at the conference Mayday
Workshop this last year.
We got that posted up.
I think there's already I don'tknow 10 or so people signed up
for that.
We're doing an expanded commanddivision ops really from IC1
(01:53):
all the way to you know how doyou support the IC in the car.
Tim Schaubel and KevinAlexander are going to be
teaching that class.
So it goes a little bit furtherthan even the division ops
class where we give a lot offocus on what does that sector
division boss do?
Still going to cover that infull detail, but it'll be
(02:17):
expanded.
It maybe even a little bitfurther.
And what do those supportofficers do?
The critical thinking anddecision-making class that Chris
Stewart and Eric Phillips havebeen teaching.
We're going to offer that.
We got the safety train, thetrainer, which you'll get the
classroom portion, with anoption later to buy the prop if
you wanted to.
(02:37):
We're going to do the IC certlab again if people are
interested, or people need toget checked off or they need to
be reevaluated, whatever.
Um, so all those workshops atthe conference are about $150
cheaper than they would be ifyou attended it, you know, on
site somewhere else.
Um, we, we continue to offerthose there because, uh,
(03:01):
oftentimes people just can'tfind a class.
Um, cause, our workshops fillup.
You know, so quickly regionallywhen somebody posts a, you know
, division ops class and youknow, say, kettering, or the big
box class we got coming up herein Cincinnati, or probably the
big box class that we alreadyposted up there in your, your
neck of the woods, john, I'msure if they're not, if it ain't
full, it's going to be full,right, I mean, everybody, I'm
sure, has their name on the list.
(03:22):
So, um, we, just, we likeoffering that workshops so that
people have an opportunity toget into it.
And uh, really, you can getfour days of training, you know,
one trip, uh, paying for travelone time.
And then you know, the hotelcosts at the convention center
are like not anywhere elsereally, I think, uh, $149 this
(03:44):
year for, uh, the preferredhotel Hyatt at the convention
center, or like none anywhereelse, really, I think $149 this
year for the preferred hotelHyatt at the convention center.
So, yeah, we're, we're lookingforward to it.
The registration is open.
It's been up for a while.
Same thing you get.
You get a free online accounttransferable to somebody in your
organization if you sign up forthe conference.
So really, it almost comes outto be a wash if you're going to
(04:09):
be putting people online, ifyou're going to send somebody to
the conference.
So, yeah, looking forward to itShould be really good.
Got a change up of some of ourinstructors, several different
classes that we're going to havethis year compared to what we
had last year.
So, looking forward to it,it'll be here.
It'll be here before we know it.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
We always take everyone's input too and think
about what they are offering tous when they make suggestions.
And one of the things that weheard last year is people would
like to leave Friday nightpossibly, so they're not staying
a second day.
So we are going to manage ourtime quickly, get in and out of
(04:49):
classes, and that's going togive us an extra hour to
actually end a little earlierthan we have on Friday, so by
3.30, you can attend everythingand get out of there in time to
make it home for the weekend.
So I think that's another coolthing that we're doing for folks
after getting that input, soyou don't have to sit stay
another day If you don't want to.
(05:10):
Certainly more than welcome toif you'd like, but we are.
We are going to manage yourtime in a way that makes it as
efficient as possible to get youout of there and back home so
you can enjoy the weekend too.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, one other thing on the conference we get quite
a few questions from, I think,the city and administration is
because of per diem, right.
So every day at the conference,if you're attending workshops,
lunch is provided, and at theconference you know full lunch
is provided.
And then you know beverages andsnacks.
You know all day, every day.
So that's just another thingthat you know oftentimes comes
(05:44):
up about uh, what's included?
So just another added valuepiece, so nobody has to leave.
It helps us, you know, withtime management so that we can
get right back to what we're allreally there for, and that is,
uh, learn from each other and,um, spread the good word.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Go to the events page , bshiftercom, to get signed up
and get more information too.
So that's all there atbshiftercom under events, and
hopefully we'll see you at the2025 blue card hazard zone
conference, september 30ththrough October 3rd in
Sharonville, ohio.
Looking forward to it and Iknow you work very hard on this,
(06:25):
josh.
So I think the betterconference out there, especially
the value for what you get.
You get a lot of instructionand it's not very expensive at
all and you don't have to be aBlue Card user to be there.
We like to involve all our BlueCard users, but if either your
department isn't a participantin blue card or you're just
(06:48):
interested in getting moreinformation, it's another great
place to go and get all of that.
Last month on the podcast, wetalked about this a little bit,
but it has since rolled out andsince today we're talking about
multifamily dwellings, we havetwo offerings for blue card
users the multi-unit sets andreps and also the multi-family
(07:09):
and multiple use building CE onthe sides up.
So, first of all, with the setsand reps, those are available.
What's the objective of thosesets and reps for the
instructors and users out thereand how do they go about using
those and where are those at onthe Blue Card site?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
So the whole thought behind us adding the sets and
reps comes back from input fromall of the users out there
saying we'd like to have someother pictures and other things
to use for CE and some roundtable discussion stuff and that
we could send out within ourorganization for size up and
follow-ups and really, reallyyou're applying the exact same
(07:48):
system.
The building just looksdifferent.
So you know, it's a, it's akind of a feel good thing and it
, you know, makes you think alittle bit different.
So you're, you know, evaluatingdifferent factors of different
buildings and different firesand so on.
Um, so the the this quarter,those sets and reps are
multifamily and mixed-usemultifamily.
(08:09):
They're in the instructordownload center under sets and
reps CE.
They're available right now.
Just remember, if you're goingto download those, you have to
download all of the files.
In the download center there'sa tutorial video.
If you forgot how to get thosefiles onto your device and how
to run them on digitalcombustion, there's a tutorial
(08:29):
video on there that goes throughhow to do that.
So the whole idea is really tokeep people connected, offer an
opportunity for instructors tofacilitate some CE within their
own fire department, oftentimesmaybe focusing on areas that
they need to improve upon.
So if you're doing really goodon you know size up and
(08:53):
follow-ups and maybe assigning afew companies, but you need to
work on command transfers.
There's multiple opportunitiesin those sets and reps to go
through and just exercisecommand transfer pieces.
Or you can just go through thewhole thing and you know, get
multiple size ups, multiplefollow-up reports, assigning
multiple companies, the commandtransfer, all of the tickets to
(09:17):
get on the radios or prioritytraffic status change, all of
those you know parts and piecesand then strategic shift.
So it's sets and reps likeanything.
It's an opportunity to gothrough and get more reps in
what we do and then that justmakes us better, makes us more
(09:37):
comfortable with the system,reinforcing the action and
behavior that we want to have.
Reinforcing the action andbehavior that we want to have.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Then also available now is a new CE on multifamily
buildings and multi-usebuildings, where maybe you have
commercial occupancies on thefirst floor, then residential
occupancies on the subsequentfloors.
That's currently available alsoin the continuing education
(10:05):
section.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
What does that one cover?
Yeah, so the this, this CE, theCE for January covered size up
and follow-up reports and wereally broke down the strategic
decision-making model,evaluation of critical fire
ground factors.
As Chris Stewart always says,every factor can't be critical.
So what are the actual realcritical factors?
So focusing on those makingdecisions, on what's standing
(10:33):
between us solving the problemor resolving those critical
factors, and really getting usjust into that mindset of I've
built out this front end, andthen the next part of it is, you
know, assigning companies.
So what am I going to do?
And then what am I going to dowith those?
Next, you know three or fourcompanies which.
(10:56):
That CE is going to be out inFebruary.
So the February CE is afollow-up basically to the first
one.
If you don't do the first onethat came out in January, the
February one will make perfectsense too, because it'll review
some of the stuff that we wentthrough in January but it was
going to break down further.
The February one's going tobreak down further the
(11:17):
assignments command transfer,communication.
So when do I give prioritytraffic?
When is it a status change,making sure that we preface
radio traffic?
Uh, I think the importance ofthat.
We hear that um and so muchaudio that we get sent now and
how it controls.
I think uh, helps control theradio traffic because, um, um,
(11:40):
so if you can't think in yourmind, why am I about to key the
radio and what am I going to say?
And it doesn't fit into one ofthese four tickets to get on the
radio.
You probably don't need to geton the radio.
So it's another opportunity forthe student.
So it's not instructor led,it's a CE that they go through
online and self-paced,self-taught exercise.
(12:05):
Really again to exercise andreinforce the system.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Nice.
Well, take advantage of those,and every quarter we'll be
pumping out new content as faras sets and reps and those kind
of things go.
And then look for your monthlyCEs there, as we're continually
updating that.
Currently 42 CEs there, aswe're continually updating that,
currently 42 CEs are available.
(12:32):
So lots of variety to choosefrom that will fit into your
training plan.
Go to bshiftercom, to yourinstructor window area or your
CE area to find all of that.
Today, speaking of multi-usebuildings, we're going to take
you to Fairfield Ohio.
Multi-use buildings we're goingto take you to Fairfield Ohio.
They recently had a fire in amulti-family building with a
rescue.
Tell us about what you knowabout this incident, Josh.
(12:53):
We'll play the audio, thenwe'll come back and talk about
it.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
So it's the city of Fairfield, a three-station fire
department in southern ButlerCounty, which is right here in
our region around the Cincinnatiarea.
They engaged with Blue Card I'mgoing to say probably about
three years ago, like starteddown the path of what they were
(13:18):
going to do with it.
They've been very successfulbecause their fire chief did so
many of the things I think thatwe talk about, um, that that
make things successful.
So he laid out someexpectations.
He said this is what we'regoing to do.
Uh, explain why the firedepartment was going to do what
they were going to do.
Has SOPs that very clearlydefine this is what we're going
(13:42):
to do.
Uh, they were successful ingetting an AFG grant a few years
ago and have trained everysingle person on their fire
department in blue card.
And then they, you know,maintain that certification and
then they continue to regularlyexercise, you know, the system
through all kinds of training,connecting it to task, tactical,
strategic level.
(14:03):
So when we hear the success here, it's, it's definitely not by
accident.
You know there's, there'seffort been put into.
Uh, how well this audio went.
More importantly, how well theevents of the incident went,
with uh organization crewsworking together, everybody
following the same incident,action plan Um.
(14:24):
So it's a multifamily apartmentbuilding.
Uh comes out as a working fire,uh report of people trapped, um
and uh, from the beginning ofthe size up all the way through
until uh really they started towind down, uh, they nailed it.
I mean they, they hit almostevery single component you would
(14:46):
really talk about or thinkabout when you talk about
application of the system.
And it all starts with theinitial radio report.
One of the interesting thingsis and when we listen to it
initial radio report nothingshowing.
And nothing showing meansnothing showing.
And I can kind of take thatback to one of our, the CE, in
January.
(15:06):
We have a few of those piecesin there of you pull up and
there's nothing showing, but youget to the Charlie side and
there's something different.
So we don't just take actionwhen we pull the brake, we just
don't start taking action.
Right, we're not finishedevaluating exactly what's going
on, to figure out exactly whatwe're going to do and where
we're going to deploy ourselvesand you know other companies All
(15:29):
for the purpose of addressing,you know, the critical factors
and checking off thosebenchmarks fire control and
search.
In this case you know lifesafety, a big priority because
it's an apartment building.
It has beds.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Reported people trapped uh, it's an apartment
building.
It has beds.
Uh, reported people trapped.
As a reminder, when we playedthis audio, it will be condensed
, so we had it edited down tohave all the spaces taken out,
so a lot comes at you fast.
We'll play the audio and thenwe'll come back and talk about
it.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And talk about what we just heard yeah, so something
else on that with this audio isis it's actually two channels
that are playing.
So, um, that's why there's alittle bit of talk over here and
there, but when, when they'rehow the recorder works, it seems
like there's not, seems likethere is there.
It's recording two, twoseparate channels.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So report of possible structure fire at 1570 Gale Hot
Drive, unit 111.
Attention Station 33, policeUnits 180, 129.
Respond 1570 Gale Hot Drive,unit 111.
(16:40):
For flames present multiplecalls.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Your time now at 2210 , fire 818 31 and around, do we
have a fire ground?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
fire ground 8.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
thank you 2211 31 responding ALS out of service.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
Italian theories, responding clear on eight out of
32 responding place ALS 32 outof service 22 22 ALS 32 on
service 2212.
2212.
Als 31 responding Clear.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Be advised.
We're getting reports that aresident is trapped in 111.
Battalion you clear.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Medic 33 ground.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Battalion's clear.
We're all on fire ground 8.
I'll repeat the traffic on 8.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
My apologies.
All units push 8.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
932, clear.
I'll repeat the traffic on the8.
My apologies.
All units push 8.
9-32.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
9-32,.
All units are out.
Dispatch advise us if possible.
Dispatch from Chief 32,.
What fire ground are we on?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Last unit.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Chief 32,.
What fire ground are we using?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Fire ground.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
That's clear.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Clear.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Engine 33 is on scene Small three-story commercial
multi-family, nothing showing.
We'll be the offensive strategy, investigating engine 33,
12-scale Hawkman.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
That's clear 22-15.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
Equipment 31, can you bring?
Speaker 5 (18:11):
us a water supply.
Clear on water supply.
Battalion 30 is on scene, medic33, level 1.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
No 360 due to size.
We do have a working fire.
We're going to remain offensivethrough Alpha, no need.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Command from Battalion 30.
Go ahead.
I understand correctly You'rein the offensive strategy going
through the Alpha enginethree-quarter fire control,
primary search no 360.
That's correct.
I have a can report 131, Level1, bringing water.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
That's correct.
We'll make the answer now justthat's your plan, maybe that's
clear.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Battalion 30 with sim command just that's your plan
stand by.
Dispatch medic, medic 33 fromcommand.
Go ahead, bring your crewforward.
We're going to need a primarysearch with engine 33 of the
affected fire building.
You follow yellow hand lineinside.
Speaker 6 (19:15):
Medic 33 clear Primary search.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
Quinn 31 from command .
Speaker 6 (19:22):
ALS 31, number one.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
ALS 31 from Command, als 31, level 1.
Speaker 6 (19:27):
Als 31 from Command Go ahead.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
Perform a 360 form.
Speaker 6 (19:31):
That's clear.
Medic 31 to EMS.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Medic 31,.
You're clear on EMS.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Medic 32, level 1.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Medic 32,.
Have your crew addressed out?
Report Alpha on deck Medic 32,.
Have your crew dressed outReport Alpha on deck Medic 32,
clear Alpha on deck.
Quinn 31, from command.
Speaker 6 (19:53):
Go ahead command.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Each of you pull a secondary hand line through
Alpha Back up Engine 33.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Clear on second hand line from Engine 33.
Back up.
Second-hand line from Engine 33.
Back up.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Chief 30,.
I'm responding.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
Command from Engine 33 is priority traffic.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
Engine 33, go ahead Priority traffic.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
We have a victim.
We're extricating them throughAlpha.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
Engine 33,.
You're clear on victimExtricating through Alpha Medic
31,.
From Command All right Command,You're going to have a victim
extricating through Alpha.
You guys are going to havepatient care.
Sino-ked is in the back of theBattalion 30.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
I'm patient care Victim's out.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Engine 109, level 1.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
Engine 109,.
Bring your crew forward.
I'm going to need you to grab athird hand line.
Go through alpha fire control.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Engine 109 clear.
I'm pulling a third hand lineat alpha fire control.
Speaker 6 (21:01):
Flight at 32.
Command from ALS 31.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
Command from ALS 31.
Go ahead, ALS 31.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
360 complete, no fire conditioning.
Showing on the exterior thereis one person on the second
story balcony on the Charlieside and two on the third story
balcony on the Charlie side.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
That's clear.
Collder 32 from command yes.
I'm going to need you guys tocome forward and start throwing
ladders, start picking peopleoff of balconies.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
That's clear Ladder 32 is throwing ladders.
Hydrant is being charged.
Do you repeat Dispatch?
Speaker 4 (21:36):
from command Go ahead , go ahead and give me a second
alarm.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
Clear on second alarm .
Speaker 6 (21:46):
Clear on second alarm Command from Point 31,.
Status change.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Point 31,.
Go ahead for status change.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
Second floor, apartment 110, primary, all
clear.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
Clear on 110, primary all clear.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Chief 32, dressing out, level 1 stage.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Chief 32 from Command level one stage.
Chief 32 from command go aheadyou'll be alpha, that's clear.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
I'll let you know.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
I'm in place.
This is 25 over district 25, soit's my vehicle.
I'm on the opposite side.
He'll be my off-aid.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
Engine 42, district 42, level 1.
Command, friend 33.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
Go ahead, Engine 33.
Speaker 6 (22:37):
Fire's out.
It's on the second floor.
We're going to need someoverhaul Engine 30 from 831.
Engine 33,.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
You're clear.
Fire out Status change tooverhaul 831,.
Go ahead.
I have a second patient with PD, that's clear as soon as I get
another medic on scene.
Speaker 6 (22:50):
I'll let you know.
Dispatch to command.
Go ahead dispatch.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
My earlier traffic.
You've got two that are in 115along with a pet.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
That's clear.
We're in the process of myearlier traffic.
You've got two that are in 115,along with the PET.
That's clear.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
We're in the process of doing primary searches.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Your second alarm says dropped as well.
They're all en route.
Agent 42 for command, agent 42.
You'll be alpha on deck.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Agent 42, alpha on deck.
Speaker 6 (23:17):
District 42 for command.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Go for District 42.
Speaker 6 (23:21):
You'll be assigned to the District 42, Alpha on deck.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
District 42, command.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
Go for District 42.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
You'll be assigned Alpha 8 with Chief 32.
Speaker 6 (23:32):
District 42,.
That's clear on Alpha 8.
Alpha from Engine 109.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Go ahead 109.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
Alpha, alpha sign front door with a third hand
line Ready to make entry.
Would you like us to assistwith overhaul?
Speaker 5 (23:47):
Yeah, follow uh.
Meet up with Engine 33,.
Assist with overhaul.
Check out Engine 109 fromCommand.
Speaker 6 (23:54):
Go ahead.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
I'm going to need you to conduct some primary
searches of the uh otherapartments 109, clear primary
circuit.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
We're remaining apartments.
Make an entry Command from .31.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
.31, go ahead 10 report.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
We're doing an overhaul at this time.
We do need ventilation.
Positive pressure fan.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
That's clear Overhaul Need for ventilation.
Speaker 6 (24:23):
Command from ALS 31.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Go ahead ALS 31.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
Myself and Medic 31 will be transporting to UC
Westchester.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Clear transporting to UC Westchester.
Can you give me a rundown ofthe patient's condition?
Speaker 6 (24:39):
Sable bottle wrist time and smoke inhalation.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
That's clear.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Wow, some great audio there, josh.
Um, you know, with a victim, alot going on.
How many different firedepartments are in the system
that we're we're hearing on theradio that are participating in
this event?
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I think with the second alarm there was probably
seven or eight different firedepartments that were there, and
then we'll talk.
We can talk more about it as webreak it down.
But you know, an interestingthing is, you know, every so
many places we go, they saythere's no way that we can do
division ops.
We don't have anybody, we don'thave, you know, the people to
(25:19):
do it.
Even if we could do that, wecan't support them with a
support officer or embeddedsafety officer.
And on this incident you heardthat that, uh, there's, I think,
six.
There were six chiefs coming onthe incident and you know, none
of them have drivers and theygot paired up.
So, uh, a chief got assigned to, you know, come to the command
(25:44):
vehicle and support the IC.
A chief got assigned to supportAlpha.
So there's ways to do it, justlike we call any other resources
.
So this is a good example of howit sounds when they show up
from multiple different firedepartments and there's a job to
(26:05):
be done.
How it sounds, you know, whenthey show up from multiple
different fire departments and,uh, there's a job to be done,
they're capable of filling thatjob and then you just plug them
into that role, but it'simportant that everybody's using
the same system.
And, um example, when you getinto the car and the IC
worksheet doesn't look likeanything you've ever seen before
, that that's not going to workvery well, right, it's probably
(26:25):
going to actually becounterproductive, but everybody
being on the same system, eventhough they're from six or seven
different fire departments,really it sounds like it is all
one fire department becauseoperationally, none of the fire
departments in this region go toa fire by themselves.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I want to back up a little bit because we get often
in our fire service right nowpeople pining for the good old
days where they just got to getoff the truck and do whatever
they wanted.
And I'd like to point out thatif seven fire departments pulled
up and did whatever they wanted, they probably wouldn't have
been able to successfully notonly rescue this victim but also
(27:07):
get the other people off thebalcony, take care of the people
in the police cruisers that wehear about that have smoke
inhalation and get the fire outvery, very quickly.
Although this is a condensedaudio, things happen very
quickly and you can tell becausereally it's the first alarm
units that do the lion's shareof the work here.
The subsequent second alarmunits are doing mostly support
(27:30):
work helping taking care of theother patients that need
attended to, controllingutilities and that kind of stuff
.
Is there anything else you wantto say about that?
But I just get so frustratedbecause the critics of Blue Card
make it seem like we'reanti-rescue, anti-aggressive
firefighting and I think andwe'll get to the tactical truth
(27:51):
today it kind of plays into thisa little bit, but it's having a
good incident action plan,communicating that, making sure
people are clear on it and thenletting them do their jobs,
because there's a lot of timesduring this incident, people on
the task level identified somevery important things that
needed to be identified becausethey were thinking officers that
(28:11):
are involved in the system.
They know how the criticaldecision-making system works and
they're able to make thosestrategic decisions even as a
company officer.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, so the whole thing about having one incident
action plan and everybodyoperating off of what that first
due company officer you know,evaluates to be the problem and
develops that initial incidentaction plan really lays out the
people are doing the work thatneeds to be done to address the
problem.
And there was people that werenot, you know, assigned like
(28:45):
right away and that that'sappropriate, and actually they
were assigned.
They were just assigned.
They were assigned to an ondeck position so that they were
the next ones to be used to dowhatever needed to be done at
the incident.
First and foremost, as wealways say, they're the rapid
intervention team right there atthe front door ready to go.
Or, if there's multiple attackpositions, we would have, you
know, multiple on that,companies at different attack
(29:06):
positions.
If seven fire department showedup with no plan, you know no
staging.
Every fireman that's goingthere is going to go to want to
go to one place, right, they all, we, we want to get some.
And it's like, well, that thatjob's already been done, right,
(29:26):
and we, we've talked about itforever, and yet you go to this
incident and you turn around andthere's 20 people stacked up on
the stairs and it's like whatin the world are you all doing
in here?
So, um, it only takes thepeople that it takes to do the
work and then then we're off toassigning that next task based
off of what are our, whateverour priorities are.
(29:48):
So obviously you know firecontrol and you know primary
searches.
So as we circle around on thatand we can talk more about it.
So, as we circle around on thatand we can talk more about it,
there's so much rhetoric outthere and so much jibber jabber
about you can't possibly searchand pull a hand line.
And it's like well, here's yetanother example and it's almost
(30:16):
every single day that you cansee or hear of an event like
this.
So first due company stretchesa hand line and they come upon
somebody that's there.
The incident commander was onit that, hey, there is a report
of people trapped, there is aworking fire, there's a good
chance they're going to findsomebody.
So they assigned anothercompany to back them up.
So it put the first due companyin a perfect spot.
Hey, we found the victim, we'regoing to remove them.
There's somebody right behindus, they're going to take over.
(30:37):
You know fire attack and thatcompany that, uh, between the
two companies.
They got an all clear of ofthat main fire unit and got fire
control.
So, um, you know, quite frankly,primary searches of those other
apartments that don't havesmoke in them is is really not
like primary searches, it's morelike secondary searches.
(31:00):
Those people were not there.
There were, there was no riskthere for them, they were behind
closed doors, there was nosmoke in that area, the fire had
been controlled.
So, um, it's a priority thatwe're still going to check on
that.
But back to it.
If, if I go in there,gangbusters and I just start
forcing every door and Icontinue to see this over and
(31:21):
over and over again somebodygets assigned search in an
apartment building and theystart opening door, open a door,
open a door, and it's like,well, you're creating problems
when you force that door and MrsSmith got smoke on her.
She all of a sudden became avictim and now you can't
continue to do your job becauseyou created, you created a
problem.
If you would have just leftthem behind closed doors, you'd
(31:49):
have been so much better off.
So, um, a lot of value in havingone incident action plan and
everybody operating, you know,within one system.
And there was nothing slowabout this.
I.
I love the fact that they wereall of them were very confident
on the radio.
Clearly they are all verycompetent, they understand the
system.
There was no real talking overeach other.
They did a pretty nice jobusing tickets to get on the
(32:12):
radio.
The fact that when they foundthe victim and said priority
traffic, that broughteverybody's ears up like oh,
what is this the victim?
And said priority traffic, thatbrought everybody's ears up
like, oh, what, what is this?
The first company said prioritytraffic.
Oh, we have a victim.
We're coming out the alpha sideand the incident commander not
by accident, because theyprobably talked about it,
trained on it, have a policy onit.
Uh, yeah, the cyano kit is inbattalion 30.
(32:35):
Make sure you come and get this.
It reminds me of some of theCobb County stuff that we've
used that like that.
That shit don't happen byaccident.
So so far, so often, the wholecyano kit thing seems to be like
an afterthought and it's like,no, it should be.
It's really just part of theprocess, right?
No different than we are goingto go in and search.
(32:55):
Well, it's part of the process,it's not the victim.
Rescue is not over untilthey're in the ambulance on the
way to the hospital and reallydelivered at the hospital.
So it's A to Z.
So you have to have a plan anda system so that you can hit
every one of those points fromthe start, all the way through
to the finish.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
The other thing that once they did the priority
traffic and had the victimeveryone does the task math when
you're the IC and he was doingthe task math, even though they
were getting fire control thiswasn't really an escalating fire
problem they went ahead andupgraded it to a second alarm.
Because that's a game changeryou have victims.
I know my suburban firedepartment.
(33:37):
We don't have victims veryoften, but we say when we do and
we talk about this in Blue Cardlet's upgrade and forecast the
resources we're going to needthere.
And the IC did an excellent jobsaying, okay, go ahead and
upgrade this to a second alarm,bringing in more resources with
the thought that that firstengine on the scene engine 33,
(33:58):
that crew is going to be gassed.
They fought a lot of fire.
They helped remove a victim.
Maybe they'd help with sometreatment of that victim or at
least got the victim to wherethey needed to be.
You don't want to keep puttingthem back into a position where
maybe you know you're going toput them at risk because they
have done a lot of work.
So let's bring in some othercompanies to help us finish up.
(34:21):
Whatever it is we need tofinish up there.
So that was really good on themupgrading to a second alarm.
Last time we had a podcast witha victim same thing they
automatically upgraded to thesecond alarm because that is a
game changer as far as thatincident action plan goes for
the IC.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
In this case, the IC was getting information from
dispatch.
There's victims in this unit.
All the police are advising.
There's two victims or twopatients in the back of this
police car?
Oh, there's one in the back ofthat police car.
So they were going to needresource right.
So prioritizing the problem andtaking care of the critical
(35:00):
factors that were critical firstand then addressing all the
rest of those pieces was clearly, was clearly in the plan, and
getting that other resourcecoming was coming to support.
We know when we find one victim,that there's often going to be
you know another.
In this case you're in amultifamily complex, so you know
(35:21):
who knows how many you couldend up having.
In this case they did a reallynice job of you know, sheltering
in place, keeping people on thebalcony.
You know that latter companydid not put people at additional
risk by removing them.
I mean, they did a fine jobexplaining to command.
Uh, you know there's some peopleon the balcony still, but they
are at no risk and we're goingto leave them there because
(35:42):
we've seen it over and overagain to where we, we, we call
that a rescue when we take themoff of the balcony and they're
35 apartments away from wherethe fire was, or the fire's
totally out and we're, we're,we're still trying to pull them
off of a balcony, and it's likeno, the best thing we could do
in that case is just leave themright there.
Uh, they even reported that theinterior crews already got an
all clear of that unit and thepeople were outside on the
(36:04):
balcony.
So it's like no, just leavethem in place.
Let's not make a bigger problemfor ourselves.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, Having somebody who's uh, maybe 70 years old
swinging their leg over therailing of a balcony to climb
down a 35 foot ladder isn'tadvantageous, unless it is,
unless they're at risk.
So that's a really good pointthere.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Well, you got to weigh it out, right.
I mean, is there a smoke andfire problem?
And if there's not, then theycan stay there.
Then then let's.
Then let's do that, because inthis case the bigger risk would
have been they're coming off ofa third floor balcony and you
know what does that look likeand how does that go.
And maybe even more importantly, that company was able to get
available, to be assigned to dosomething else, to address real
(36:48):
problems or real factors, notjust do something because they
were assigned to do it.
And that's another part of thatfalling under the incident
action plan and having thinkingfirefighters and officers that
they got an assignment and wewant you to make decisions and
we want you to think, and inthis case they did.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Bruno talked about cool command, our instructor,
steve Lester.
He talks about the three C's ofcommand.
I love it when the initialarriving officer gives that IRR.
He's calm during that IRR.
Then he comes back with thefollow-up report to state this
is a working fire.
The tone of his voice didn'tchange because he is trained at
(37:33):
this.
They know what they're doing.
And again, throwing back to 30years ago, back in the day, you
used to know it was a workingfire by the tone in somebody's
voice because they werecomplaining.
And we've had severalinstructors say before we need
to expect fire.
We turn around the corner andit's you know.
I love that analogy.
The garbage man doesn't getexcited when there's garbage at
(37:56):
the curb.
When he turns the corner in hisfire sorry, trash truck, he,
he's expecting that and in thiscase they were expecting fire.
The follow-up report statedthis is a working fire.
He started getting his watersupply brought into him and they
started going to work.
And then that command transferhappens just like it should.
We always say six to sevenminutes into the incident is
(38:19):
when the strategic commandshould be established if we've
got an IDLH.
This was an escalating incident.
It was an IDLH.
It was one of those occasionsthat IC number one needed to
pass command to IC number twoand just as they were masking up
and going inside and gettingready to get to work they are
masking up and going inside andgetting ready to get to work IC
(38:40):
number two shows up.
So that is really gooddeployment on behalf of the city
of Fairfield to make surethey're getting a chief there
quickly, because the chief getsthere in time to do a great
command transfer, get thingsready for that crew to be able
to take all that stuff off theirplate.
Even though they've done thesize up plus three, they're
looking at what needs to happennext and they communicate that
through their transfer of CAN,transfer of command, can report.
(39:03):
But you know, again, calm, it'swithin the system and it was
done very well.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Sounds like professionalism to me.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Well, it's time now for a timeless tactical truth,
today's timeless tactical truthfrom alan brunasini.
An incident action plan, iap islike a band's sheet music
(39:34):
everyone plays their part inharmony led by the IC.
This was good audio todemonstrate that, to let us know
that there is an incidentaction plan, which we just
talked about at length.
The IC did a very good job atconducting everyone like an
orchestra leader does.
I think the opposite of thathappens and you get that
(39:59):
pandemonium.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Really, everybody in this incident, same incident
action plan.
Probably nobody was surprisedby any of the assignments that
they got, because when you'reoperating within a system and
you hear, you hear that you knowsize up of really describing
what the problem is and thenwhat the initial actions are of
that first company, you know wecan start really describing what
the problem is and then whatthe initial actions are, that
first company, you know we canstart to put together, well,
(40:21):
what might I need to do?
So, um, that's just what makesit roll so smoothly and that's
really just comes down toservice, right?
So, uh, the system lines rightup to service delivery of we're
there for the people to savethem and to save their stuff.
(40:42):
And in this case, because of anincident action plan, uh, they,
they rescued some people, theyput a fire out.
Quite frankly, they reduced uhdamage because they had an
incident action plan.
And we're not going to force 17apartment doors in here because
there's no need to, becausethere's no smoke behind the.
There's no smoke there, right?
(41:03):
So, um, everybody operatingwithin you know, one incident
action plan makes everything goso much smoother.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Well, excellent audio , josh.
We want to thank the FairfieldFire Department and their Chief,
tom Laycamp, and all of theirfirefighters and officers for
doing not only such a great jobbut also sharing that audio with
the Blue Card listeners for usto learn a little something from
reinforcing the program andgetting some notes for ourselves
, because I think there was alot to learn from this, a lot to
strive for as our organizationsto maybe do a little bit better
(41:38):
.
And we are looking for incidentaudio all the time.
If you have incident audio thatyou would like to share with
Blue Card listeners and BShifter listeners, please submit
it to us.
The information's in the shownotes.
We would love to have it.
And again, we don't put peopleon blast.
We're not here to critique.
We are just here to share somegood examples of the system
(42:00):
working.
Thanks for being here today,josh.
It's good to see you and we'lltalk to you soon.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Thanks, john, have a great day.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Thanks for listening to B Shifter.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome everyone to the B Shifter podcast.
John Vance here along with JoshBloom, and today we're talking
about multi-unit, multi-familyfires.
We're going to have some audiofrom Fairfield, ohio, coming up
featuring a fire with a rescueBlue Card Region, and you can
see how regionally Blue Cardworks when we play that audio
(00:28):
back coming up in just a fewmoments.
First of all, hello, josh, howare you?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm doing good, John Doing really good.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
How about yourself?
I'm doing great.
You know it's already.
We're well into 2025.
January went by like Januarytypically does cold and snowy
here where I am, and that'llcontinue on.
But before we know it, not onlyare we going to be around
springtime with FDIC and allthose activities, the 2025 Blue
(00:59):
Card Hazard Zone Conference,which will be back in the
Cincinnati area at theSharonville Convention Center on
September 30th through October3rd, this year we've added some
workshops.
What do we have for theparticipants this year, if they
were interested in thepre-conference workshops,
because two of the days onSeptember 2nd and 3rd will be
(01:20):
the general sessions and thenbreakout sessions, which 15
different instructors?
But we also have somepre-conference offerings.
What are those this year, josh?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, so the pre-conference workshops were
the Mayday Workshop that we'vebeen doing for years.
We had a hundred and somepeople at the conference Mayday
Workshop this last year.
We got that posted up.
I think there's already I don'tknow 10 or so people signed up
for that.
We're doing an expanded commanddivision ops really from IC1
(01:53):
all the way to you know how doyou support the IC in the car.
Tim Schaubel and KevinAlexander are going to be
teaching that class.
So it goes a little bit furtherthan even the division ops
class where we give a lot offocus on what does that sector
division boss do?
Still going to cover that infull detail, but it'll be
(02:17):
expanded.
It maybe even a little bitfurther.
And what do those supportofficers do?
The critical thinking anddecision-making class that Chris
Stewart and Eric Phillips havebeen teaching.
We're going to offer that.
We got the safety train, thetrainer, which you'll get the
classroom portion, with anoption later to buy the prop if
you wanted to.
(02:37):
We're going to do the IC certlab again if people are
interested, or people need toget checked off or they need to
be reevaluated, whatever.
Um, so all those workshops atthe conference are about $150
cheaper than they would be ifyou attended it, you know, on
site somewhere else.
Um, we, we continue to offerthose there because, uh,
(03:01):
oftentimes people just can'tfind a class.
Um, cause, our workshops fillup.
You know, so quickly regionallywhen somebody posts a, you know
, division ops class and youknow, say, kettering, or the big
box class we got coming up herein Cincinnati, or probably the
big box class that we alreadyposted up there in your, your
neck of the woods, john, I'msure if they're not, if it ain't
full, it's going to be full,right, I mean, everybody, I'm
sure, has their name on the list.
(03:22):
So, um, we, just, we likeoffering that workshops so that
people have an opportunity toget into it.
And uh, really, you can getfour days of training, you know,
one trip, uh, paying for travelone time.
And then you know, the hotelcosts at the convention center
are like not anywhere elsereally, I think, uh, $149 this
(03:44):
year for, uh, the preferredhotel Hyatt at the convention
center, or like none anywhereelse, really, I think $149 this
year for the preferred hotelHyatt at the convention center.
So, yeah, we're, we're lookingforward to it.
The registration is open.
It's been up for a while.
Same thing you get.
You get a free online accounttransferable to somebody in your
organization if you sign up forthe conference.
So really, it almost comes outto be a wash if you're going to
(04:09):
be putting people online, ifyou're going to send somebody to
the conference.
So, yeah, looking forward to itShould be really good.
Got a change up of some of ourinstructors, several different
classes that we're going to havethis year compared to what we
had last year.
So, looking forward to it,it'll be here.
It'll be here before we know it.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
We always take everyone's input too and think
about what they are offering tous when they make suggestions.
And one of the things that weheard last year is people would
like to leave Friday nightpossibly, so they're not staying
a second day.
So we are going to manage ourtime quickly, get in and out of
(04:49):
classes, and that's going togive us an extra hour to
actually end a little earlierthan we have on Friday, so by
3.30, you can attend everythingand get out of there in time to
make it home for the weekend.
So I think that's another coolthing that we're doing for folks
after getting that input, soyou don't have to sit stay
another day If you don't want to.
(05:10):
Certainly more than welcome toif you'd like, but we are.
We are going to manage yourtime in a way that makes it as
efficient as possible to get youout of there and back home so
you can enjoy the weekend too.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, one other thing on the conference we get quite
a few questions from, I think,the city and administration is
because of per diem, right.
So every day at the conference,if you're attending workshops,
lunch is provided, and at theconference you know full lunch
is provided.
And then you know beverages andsnacks.
You know all day, every day.
So that's just another thingthat you know oftentimes comes
(05:44):
up about uh, what's included?
So just another added valuepiece, so nobody has to leave.
It helps us, you know, withtime management so that we can
get right back to what we're allreally there for, and that is,
uh, learn from each other and,um, spread the good word.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Go to the events page , bshiftercom, to get signed up
and get more information too.
So that's all there atbshiftercom under events, and
hopefully we'll see you at the2025 blue card hazard zone
conference, september 30ththrough October 3rd in
Sharonville, ohio.
Looking forward to it and Iknow you work very hard on this,
(06:25):
josh.
So I think the betterconference out there, especially
the value for what you get.
You get a lot of instructionand it's not very expensive at
all and you don't have to be aBlue Card user to be there.
We like to involve all our BlueCard users, but if either your
department isn't a participantin blue card or you're just
(06:48):
interested in getting moreinformation, it's another great
place to go and get all of that.
Last month on the podcast, wetalked about this a little bit,
but it has since rolled out andsince today we're talking about
multifamily dwellings, we havetwo offerings for blue card
users the multi-unit sets andreps and also the multi-family
(07:09):
and multiple use building CE onthe sides up.
So, first of all, with the setsand reps, those are available.
What's the objective of thosesets and reps for the
instructors and users out thereand how do they go about using
those and where are those at onthe Blue Card site?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
So the whole thought behind us adding the sets and
reps comes back from input fromall of the users out there
saying we'd like to have someother pictures and other things
to use for CE and some roundtable discussion stuff and that
we could send out within ourorganization for size up and
follow-ups and really, reallyyou're applying the exact same
(07:48):
system.
The building just looksdifferent.
So you know, it's a, it's akind of a feel good thing and it
, you know, makes you think alittle bit different.
So you're, you know, evaluatingdifferent factors of different
buildings and different firesand so on.
Um, so the the this quarter,those sets and reps are
multifamily and mixed-usemultifamily.
(08:09):
They're in the instructordownload center under sets and
reps CE.
They're available right now.
Just remember, if you're goingto download those, you have to
download all of the files.
In the download center there'sa tutorial video.
If you forgot how to get thosefiles onto your device and how
to run them on digitalcombustion, there's a tutorial
(08:29):
video on there that goes throughhow to do that.
So the whole idea is really tokeep people connected, offer an
opportunity for instructors tofacilitate some CE within their
own fire department, oftentimesmaybe focusing on areas that
they need to improve upon.
So if you're doing really goodon you know size up and
(08:53):
follow-ups and maybe assigning afew companies, but you need to
work on command transfers.
There's multiple opportunitiesin those sets and reps to go
through and just exercisecommand transfer pieces.
Or you can just go through thewhole thing and you know, get
multiple size ups, multiplefollow-up reports, assigning
multiple companies, the commandtransfer, all of the tickets to
(09:17):
get on the radios or prioritytraffic status change, all of
those you know parts and piecesand then strategic shift.
So it's sets and reps likeanything.
It's an opportunity to gothrough and get more reps in
what we do and then that justmakes us better, makes us more
(09:37):
comfortable with the system,reinforcing the action and
behavior that we want to have.
Reinforcing the action andbehavior that we want to have.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Then also available now is a new CE on multifamily
buildings and multi-usebuildings, where maybe you have
commercial occupancies on thefirst floor, then residential
occupancies on the subsequentfloors.
That's currently available alsoin the continuing education
(10:05):
section.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
What does that one cover?
Yeah, so the this, this CE, theCE for January covered size up
and follow-up reports and wereally broke down the strategic
decision-making model,evaluation of critical fire
ground factors.
As Chris Stewart always says,every factor can't be critical.
So what are the actual realcritical factors?
So focusing on those makingdecisions, on what's standing
(10:33):
between us solving the problemor resolving those critical
factors, and really getting usjust into that mindset of I've
built out this front end, andthen the next part of it is, you
know, assigning companies.
So what am I going to do?
And then what am I going to dowith those?
Next, you know three or fourcompanies which.
(10:56):
That CE is going to be out inFebruary.
So the February CE is afollow-up basically to the first
one.
If you don't do the first onethat came out in January, the
February one will make perfectsense too, because it'll review
some of the stuff that we wentthrough in January but it was
going to break down further.
The February one's going tobreak down further the
(11:17):
assignments command transfer,communication.
So when do I give prioritytraffic?
When is it a status change,making sure that we preface
radio traffic?
Uh, I think the importance ofthat.
We hear that um and so muchaudio that we get sent now and
how it controls.
I think uh, helps control theradio traffic because, um, um,
(11:40):
so if you can't think in yourmind, why am I about to key the
radio and what am I going to say?
And it doesn't fit into one ofthese four tickets to get on the
radio.
You probably don't need to geton the radio.
So it's another opportunity forthe student.
So it's not instructor led,it's a CE that they go through
online and self-paced,self-taught exercise.
(12:05):
Really again to exercise andreinforce the system.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Nice.
Well, take advantage of those,and every quarter we'll be
pumping out new content as faras sets and reps and those kind
of things go.
And then look for your monthlyCEs there, as we're continually
updating that.
Currently 42 CEs there, aswe're continually updating that,
currently 42 CEs are available.
(12:32):
So lots of variety to choosefrom that will fit into your
training plan.
Go to bshiftercom, to yourinstructor window area or your
CE area to find all of that.
Today, speaking of multi-usebuildings, we're going to take
you to Fairfield Ohio.
Multi-use buildings we're goingto take you to Fairfield Ohio.
They recently had a fire in amulti-family building with a
rescue.
Tell us about what you knowabout this incident, Josh.
(12:53):
We'll play the audio, thenwe'll come back and talk about
it.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
So it's the city of Fairfield, a three-station fire
department in southern ButlerCounty, which is right here in
our region around the Cincinnatiarea.
They engaged with Blue Card I'mgoing to say probably about
three years ago, like starteddown the path of what they were
(13:18):
going to do with it.
They've been very successfulbecause their fire chief did so
many of the things I think thatwe talk about, um, that that
make things successful.
So he laid out someexpectations.
He said this is what we'regoing to do.
Uh, explain why the firedepartment was going to do what
they were going to do.
Has SOPs that very clearlydefine this is what we're going
(13:42):
to do.
Uh, they were successful ingetting an AFG grant a few years
ago and have trained everysingle person on their fire
department in blue card.
And then they, you know,maintain that certification and
then they continue to regularlyexercise, you know, the system
through all kinds of training,connecting it to task, tactical,
strategic level.
(14:03):
So when we hear the success here, it's, it's definitely not by
accident.
You know there's, there'seffort been put into.
Uh, how well this audio went.
More importantly, how well theevents of the incident went,
with uh organization crewsworking together, everybody
following the same incident,action plan Um.
(14:24):
So it's a multifamily apartmentbuilding.
Uh comes out as a working fire,uh report of people trapped, um
and uh, from the beginning ofthe size up all the way through
until uh really they started towind down, uh, they nailed it.
I mean they, they hit almostevery single component you would
(14:46):
really talk about or thinkabout when you talk about
application of the system.
And it all starts with theinitial radio report.
One of the interesting thingsis and when we listen to it
initial radio report nothingshowing.
And nothing showing meansnothing showing.
And I can kind of take thatback to one of our, the CE, in
January.
(15:06):
We have a few of those piecesin there of you pull up and
there's nothing showing, but youget to the Charlie side and
there's something different.
So we don't just take actionwhen we pull the brake, we just
don't start taking action.
Right, we're not finishedevaluating exactly what's going
on, to figure out exactly whatwe're going to do and where
we're going to deploy ourselvesand you know other companies All
(15:29):
for the purpose of addressing,you know, the critical factors
and checking off thosebenchmarks fire control and
search.
In this case you know lifesafety, a big priority because
it's an apartment building.
It has beds.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Reported people trapped uh, it's an apartment
building.
It has beds.
Uh, reported people trapped.
As a reminder, when we playedthis audio, it will be condensed
, so we had it edited down tohave all the spaces taken out,
so a lot comes at you fast.
We'll play the audio and thenwe'll come back and talk about
it.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And talk about what we just heard yeah, so something
else on that with this audio isis it's actually two channels
that are playing.
So, um, that's why there's alittle bit of talk over here and
there, but when, when they'rehow the recorder works, it seems
like there's not, seems likethere is there.
It's recording two, twoseparate channels.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So report of possible structure fire at 1570 Gale Hot
Drive, unit 111.
Attention Station 33, policeUnits 180, 129.
Respond 1570 Gale Hot Drive,unit 111.
(16:40):
For flames present multiplecalls.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Your time now at 2210 , fire 818 31 and around, do we
have a fire ground?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
fire ground 8.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
thank you 2211 31 responding ALS out of service.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
Italian theories, responding clear on eight out of
32 responding place ALS 32 outof service 22 22 ALS 32 on
service 2212.
2212.
Als 31 responding Clear.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Be advised.
We're getting reports that aresident is trapped in 111.
Battalion you clear.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Medic 33 ground.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Battalion's clear.
We're all on fire ground 8.
I'll repeat the traffic on 8.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
My apologies.
All units push 8.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
932, clear.
I'll repeat the traffic on the8.
My apologies.
All units push 8.
9-32.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
9-32,.
All units are out.
Dispatch advise us if possible.
Dispatch from Chief 32,.
What fire ground are we on?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Last unit.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Chief 32,.
What fire ground are we using?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Fire ground.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
That's clear.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Clear.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Engine 33 is on scene Small three-story commercial
multi-family, nothing showing.
We'll be the offensive strategy, investigating engine 33,
12-scale Hawkman.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
That's clear 22-15.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
Equipment 31, can you bring?
Speaker 5 (18:11):
us a water supply.
Clear on water supply.
Battalion 30 is on scene, medic33, level 1.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
No 360 due to size.
We do have a working fire.
We're going to remain offensivethrough Alpha, no need.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Command from Battalion 30.
Go ahead.
I understand correctly You'rein the offensive strategy going
through the Alpha enginethree-quarter fire control,
primary search no 360.
That's correct.
I have a can report 131, Level1, bringing water.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
That's correct.
We'll make the answer now justthat's your plan, maybe that's
clear.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Battalion 30 with sim command just that's your plan
stand by.
Dispatch medic, medic 33 fromcommand.
Go ahead, bring your crewforward.
We're going to need a primarysearch with engine 33 of the
affected fire building.
You follow yellow hand lineinside.
Speaker 6 (19:15):
Medic 33 clear Primary search.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
Quinn 31 from command .
Speaker 6 (19:22):
ALS 31, number one.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
ALS 31 from Command, als 31, level 1.
Speaker 6 (19:27):
Als 31 from Command Go ahead.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
Perform a 360 form.
Speaker 6 (19:31):
That's clear.
Medic 31 to EMS.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Medic 31,.
You're clear on EMS.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Medic 32, level 1.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Medic 32,.
Have your crew addressed out?
Report Alpha on deck Medic 32,.
Have your crew dressed outReport Alpha on deck Medic 32,
clear Alpha on deck.
Quinn 31, from command.
Speaker 6 (19:53):
Go ahead command.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Each of you pull a secondary hand line through
Alpha Back up Engine 33.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Clear on second hand line from Engine 33.
Back up.
Second-hand line from Engine 33.
Back up.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Chief 30,.
I'm responding.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
Command from Engine 33 is priority traffic.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
Engine 33, go ahead Priority traffic.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
We have a victim.
We're extricating them throughAlpha.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
Engine 33,.
You're clear on victimExtricating through Alpha Medic
31,.
From Command All right Command,You're going to have a victim
extricating through Alpha.
You guys are going to havepatient care.
Sino-ked is in the back of theBattalion 30.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
I'm patient care Victim's out.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Engine 109, level 1.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
Engine 109,.
Bring your crew forward.
I'm going to need you to grab athird hand line.
Go through alpha fire control.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Engine 109 clear.
I'm pulling a third hand lineat alpha fire control.
Speaker 6 (21:01):
Flight at 32.
Command from ALS 31.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
Command from ALS 31.
Go ahead, ALS 31.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
360 complete, no fire conditioning.
Showing on the exterior thereis one person on the second
story balcony on the Charlieside and two on the third story
balcony on the Charlie side.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
That's clear.
Collder 32 from command yes.
I'm going to need you guys tocome forward and start throwing
ladders, start picking peopleoff of balconies.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
That's clear Ladder 32 is throwing ladders.
Hydrant is being charged.
Do you repeat Dispatch?
Speaker 4 (21:36):
from command Go ahead , go ahead and give me a second
alarm.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
Clear on second alarm .
Speaker 6 (21:46):
Clear on second alarm Command from Point 31,.
Status change.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Point 31,.
Go ahead for status change.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
Second floor, apartment 110, primary, all
clear.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
Clear on 110, primary all clear.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Chief 32, dressing out, level 1 stage.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Chief 32 from Command level one stage.
Chief 32 from command go aheadyou'll be alpha, that's clear.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
I'll let you know.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
I'm in place.
This is 25 over district 25, soit's my vehicle.
I'm on the opposite side.
He'll be my off-aid.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
Engine 42, district 42, level 1.
Command, friend 33.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
Go ahead, Engine 33.
Speaker 6 (22:37):
Fire's out.
It's on the second floor.
We're going to need someoverhaul Engine 30 from 831.
Engine 33,.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
You're clear.
Fire out Status change tooverhaul 831,.
Go ahead.
I have a second patient with PD, that's clear as soon as I get
another medic on scene.
Speaker 6 (22:50):
I'll let you know.
Dispatch to command.
Go ahead dispatch.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
My earlier traffic.
You've got two that are in 115along with a pet.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
That's clear.
We're in the process of myearlier traffic.
You've got two that are in 115,along with the PET.
That's clear.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
We're in the process of doing primary searches.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Your second alarm says dropped as well.
They're all en route.
Agent 42 for command, agent 42.
You'll be alpha on deck.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Agent 42, alpha on deck.
Speaker 6 (23:17):
District 42 for command.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Go for District 42.
Speaker 6 (23:21):
You'll be assigned to the District 42, Alpha on deck.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
District 42, command.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
Go for District 42.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
You'll be assigned Alpha 8 with Chief 32.
Speaker 6 (23:32):
District 42,.
That's clear on Alpha 8.
Alpha from Engine 109.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Go ahead 109.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
Alpha, alpha sign front door with a third hand
line Ready to make entry.
Would you like us to assistwith overhaul?
Speaker 5 (23:47):
Yeah, follow uh.
Meet up with Engine 33,.
Assist with overhaul.
Check out Engine 109 fromCommand.
Speaker 6 (23:54):
Go ahead.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
I'm going to need you to conduct some primary
searches of the uh otherapartments 109, clear primary
circuit.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
We're remaining apartments.
Make an entry Command from .31.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
.31, go ahead 10 report.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
We're doing an overhaul at this time.
We do need ventilation.
Positive pressure fan.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
That's clear Overhaul Need for ventilation.
Speaker 6 (24:23):
Command from ALS 31.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Go ahead ALS 31.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
Myself and Medic 31 will be transporting to UC
Westchester.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Clear transporting to UC Westchester.
Can you give me a rundown ofthe patient's condition?
Speaker 6 (24:39):
Sable bottle wrist time and smoke inhalation.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
That's clear.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Wow, some great audio there, josh.
Um, you know, with a victim, alot going on.
How many different firedepartments are in the system
that we're we're hearing on theradio that are participating in
this event?
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I think with the second alarm there was probably
seven or eight different firedepartments that were there, and
then we'll talk.
We can talk more about it as webreak it down.
But you know, an interestingthing is, you know, every so
many places we go, they saythere's no way that we can do
division ops.
We don't have anybody, we don'thave, you know, the people to
(25:19):
do it.
Even if we could do that, wecan't support them with a
support officer or embeddedsafety officer.
And on this incident you heardthat that, uh, there's, I think,
six.
There were six chiefs coming onthe incident and you know, none
of them have drivers and theygot paired up.
So, uh, a chief got assigned to, you know, come to the command
(25:44):
vehicle and support the IC.
A chief got assigned to supportAlpha.
So there's ways to do it, justlike we call any other resources
.
So this is a good example of howit sounds when they show up
from multiple different firedepartments and there's a job to
(26:05):
be done.
How it sounds, you know, whenthey show up from multiple
different fire departments and,uh, there's a job to be done,
they're capable of filling thatjob and then you just plug them
into that role, but it'simportant that everybody's using
the same system.
And, um example, when you getinto the car and the IC
worksheet doesn't look likeanything you've ever seen before
, that that's not going to workvery well, right, it's probably
(26:25):
going to actually becounterproductive, but everybody
being on the same system, eventhough they're from six or seven
different fire departments,really it sounds like it is all
one fire department becauseoperationally, none of the fire
departments in this region go toa fire by themselves.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I want to back up a little bit because we get often
in our fire service right nowpeople pining for the good old
days where they just got to getoff the truck and do whatever
they wanted.
And I'd like to point out thatif seven fire departments pulled
up and did whatever they wanted, they probably wouldn't have
been able to successfully notonly rescue this victim but also
(27:07):
get the other people off thebalcony, take care of the people
in the police cruisers that wehear about that have smoke
inhalation and get the fire outvery, very quickly.
Although this is a condensedaudio, things happen very
quickly and you can tell becausereally it's the first alarm
units that do the lion's shareof the work here.
The subsequent second alarmunits are doing mostly support
(27:30):
work helping taking care of theother patients that need
attended to, controllingutilities and that kind of stuff
.
Is there anything else you wantto say about that?
But I just get so frustratedbecause the critics of Blue Card
make it seem like we'reanti-rescue, anti-aggressive
firefighting and I think andwe'll get to the tactical truth
(27:51):
today it kind of plays into thisa little bit, but it's having a
good incident action plan,communicating that, making sure
people are clear on it and thenletting them do their jobs,
because there's a lot of timesduring this incident, people on
the task level identified somevery important things that
needed to be identified becausethey were thinking officers that
(28:11):
are involved in the system.
They know how the criticaldecision-making system works and
they're able to make thosestrategic decisions even as a
company officer.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, so the whole thing about having one incident
action plan and everybodyoperating off of what that first
due company officer you know,evaluates to be the problem and
develops that initial incidentaction plan really lays out the
people are doing the work thatneeds to be done to address the
problem.
And there was people that werenot, you know, assigned like
(28:45):
right away and that that'sappropriate, and actually they
were assigned.
They were just assigned.
They were assigned to an ondeck position so that they were
the next ones to be used to dowhatever needed to be done at
the incident.
First and foremost, as wealways say, they're the rapid
intervention team right there atthe front door ready to go.
Or, if there's multiple attackpositions, we would have, you
know, multiple on that,companies at different attack
(29:06):
positions.
If seven fire department showedup with no plan, you know no
staging.
Every fireman that's goingthere is going to go to want to
go to one place, right, they all, we, we want to get some.
And it's like, well, that thatjob's already been done, right,
(29:26):
and we, we've talked about itforever, and yet you go to this
incident and you turn around andthere's 20 people stacked up on
the stairs and it's like whatin the world are you all doing
in here?
So, um, it only takes thepeople that it takes to do the
work and then then we're off toassigning that next task based
off of what are our, whateverour priorities are.
(29:48):
So obviously you know firecontrol and you know primary
searches.
So as we circle around on thatand we can talk more about it.
So, as we circle around on thatand we can talk more about it,
there's so much rhetoric outthere and so much jibber jabber
about you can't possibly searchand pull a hand line.
And it's like well, here's yetanother example and it's almost
(30:16):
every single day that you cansee or hear of an event like
this.
So first due company stretchesa hand line and they come upon
somebody that's there.
The incident commander was onit that, hey, there is a report
of people trapped, there is aworking fire, there's a good
chance they're going to findsomebody.
So they assigned anothercompany to back them up.
So it put the first due companyin a perfect spot.
Hey, we found the victim, we'regoing to remove them.
There's somebody right behindus, they're going to take over.
(30:37):
You know fire attack and thatcompany that, uh, between the
two companies.
They got an all clear of ofthat main fire unit and got fire
control.
So, um, you know, quite frankly,primary searches of those other
apartments that don't havesmoke in them is is really not
like primary searches, it's morelike secondary searches.
(31:00):
Those people were not there.
There were, there was no riskthere for them, they were behind
closed doors, there was nosmoke in that area, the fire had
been controlled.
So, um, it's a priority thatwe're still going to check on
that.
But back to it.
If, if I go in there,gangbusters and I just start
forcing every door and Icontinue to see this over and
(31:21):
over and over again somebodygets assigned search in an
apartment building and theystart opening door, open a door,
open a door, and it's like,well, you're creating problems
when you force that door and MrsSmith got smoke on her.
She all of a sudden became avictim and now you can't
continue to do your job becauseyou created, you created a
problem.
If you would have just leftthem behind closed doors, you'd
(31:49):
have been so much better off.
So, um, a lot of value in havingone incident action plan and
everybody operating, you know,within one system.
And there was nothing slowabout this.
I.
I love the fact that they wereall of them were very confident
on the radio.
Clearly they are all verycompetent, they understand the
system.
There was no real talking overeach other.
They did a pretty nice jobusing tickets to get on the
(32:12):
radio.
The fact that when they foundthe victim and said priority
traffic, that broughteverybody's ears up like oh,
what is this the victim?
And said priority traffic, thatbrought everybody's ears up
like, oh, what, what is this?
The first company said prioritytraffic.
Oh, we have a victim.
We're coming out the alpha sideand the incident commander not
by accident, because theyprobably talked about it,
trained on it, have a policy onit.
Uh, yeah, the cyano kit is inbattalion 30.
(32:35):
Make sure you come and get this.
It reminds me of some of theCobb County stuff that we've
used that like that.
That shit don't happen byaccident.
So so far, so often, the wholecyano kit thing seems to be like
an afterthought and it's like,no, it should be.
It's really just part of theprocess, right?
No different than we are goingto go in and search.
(32:55):
Well, it's part of the process,it's not the victim.
Rescue is not over untilthey're in the ambulance on the
way to the hospital and reallydelivered at the hospital.
So it's A to Z.
So you have to have a plan anda system so that you can hit
every one of those points fromthe start, all the way through
to the finish.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
The other thing that once they did the priority
traffic and had the victimeveryone does the task math when
you're the IC and he was doingthe task math, even though they
were getting fire control thiswasn't really an escalating fire
problem they went ahead andupgraded it to a second alarm.
Because that's a game changeryou have victims.
I know my suburban firedepartment.
(33:37):
We don't have victims veryoften, but we say when we do and
we talk about this in Blue Cardlet's upgrade and forecast the
resources we're going to needthere.
And the IC did an excellent jobsaying, okay, go ahead and
upgrade this to a second alarm,bringing in more resources with
the thought that that firstengine on the scene engine 33,
(33:58):
that crew is going to be gassed.
They fought a lot of fire.
They helped remove a victim.
Maybe they'd help with sometreatment of that victim or at
least got the victim to wherethey needed to be.
You don't want to keep puttingthem back into a position where
maybe you know you're going toput them at risk because they
have done a lot of work.
So let's bring in some othercompanies to help us finish up.
(34:21):
Whatever it is we need tofinish up there.
So that was really good on themupgrading to a second alarm.
Last time we had a podcast witha victim same thing they
automatically upgraded to thesecond alarm because that is a
game changer as far as thatincident action plan goes for
the IC.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
In this case, the IC was getting information from
dispatch.
There's victims in this unit.
All the police are advising.
There's two victims or twopatients in the back of this
police car?
Oh, there's one in the back ofthat police car.
So they were going to needresource right.
So prioritizing the problem andtaking care of the critical
(35:00):
factors that were critical firstand then addressing all the
rest of those pieces was clearly, was clearly in the plan, and
getting that other resourcecoming was coming to support.
We know when we find one victim,that there's often going to be
you know another.
In this case you're in amultifamily complex, so you know
(35:21):
who knows how many you couldend up having.
In this case they did a reallynice job of you know, sheltering
in place, keeping people on thebalcony.
You know that latter companydid not put people at additional
risk by removing them.
I mean, they did a fine jobexplaining to command.
Uh, you know there's some peopleon the balcony still, but they
are at no risk and we're goingto leave them there because
(35:42):
we've seen it over and overagain to where we, we, we call
that a rescue when we take themoff of the balcony and they're
35 apartments away from wherethe fire was, or the fire's
totally out and we're, we're,we're still trying to pull them
off of a balcony, and it's likeno, the best thing we could do
in that case is just leave themright there.
Uh, they even reported that theinterior crews already got an
all clear of that unit and thepeople were outside on the
(36:04):
balcony.
So it's like no, just leavethem in place.
Let's not make a bigger problemfor ourselves.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, Having somebody who's uh, maybe 70 years old
swinging their leg over therailing of a balcony to climb
down a 35 foot ladder isn'tadvantageous, unless it is,
unless they're at risk.
So that's a really good pointthere.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Well, you got to weigh it out, right.
I mean, is there a smoke andfire problem?
And if there's not, then theycan stay there.
Then then let's.
Then let's do that, because inthis case the bigger risk would
have been they're coming off ofa third floor balcony and you
know what does that look likeand how does that go.
And maybe even more importantly, that company was able to get
available, to be assigned to dosomething else, to address real
(36:48):
problems or real factors, notjust do something because they
were assigned to do it.
And that's another part of thatfalling under the incident
action plan and having thinkingfirefighters and officers that
they got an assignment and wewant you to make decisions and
we want you to think, and inthis case they did.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Bruno talked about cool command, our instructor,
steve Lester.
He talks about the three C's ofcommand.
I love it when the initialarriving officer gives that IRR.
He's calm during that IRR.
Then he comes back with thefollow-up report to state this
is a working fire.
The tone of his voice didn'tchange because he is trained at
(37:33):
this.
They know what they're doing.
And again, throwing back to 30years ago, back in the day, you
used to know it was a workingfire by the tone in somebody's
voice because they werecomplaining.
And we've had severalinstructors say before we need
to expect fire.
We turn around the corner andit's you know.
I love that analogy.
The garbage man doesn't getexcited when there's garbage at
(37:56):
the curb.
When he turns the corner in hisfire sorry, trash truck, he,
he's expecting that and in thiscase they were expecting fire.
The follow-up report statedthis is a working fire.
He started getting his watersupply brought into him and they
started going to work.
And then that command transferhappens just like it should.
We always say six to sevenminutes into the incident is
(38:19):
when the strategic commandshould be established if we've
got an IDLH.
This was an escalating incident.
It was an IDLH.
It was one of those occasionsthat IC number one needed to
pass command to IC number twoand just as they were masking up
and going inside and gettingready to get to work they are
masking up and going inside andgetting ready to get to work IC
(38:40):
number two shows up.
So that is really gooddeployment on behalf of the city
of Fairfield to make surethey're getting a chief there
quickly, because the chief getsthere in time to do a great
command transfer, get thingsready for that crew to be able
to take all that stuff off theirplate.
Even though they've done thesize up plus three, they're
looking at what needs to happennext and they communicate that
through their transfer of CAN,transfer of command, can report.
(39:03):
But you know, again, calm, it'swithin the system and it was
done very well.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Sounds like professionalism to me.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Well, it's time now for a timeless tactical truth,
today's timeless tactical truthfrom alan brunasini.
An incident action plan, iap islike a band's sheet music
(39:34):
everyone plays their part inharmony led by the IC.
This was good audio todemonstrate that, to let us know
that there is an incidentaction plan, which we just
talked about at length.
The IC did a very good job atconducting everyone like an
orchestra leader does.
I think the opposite of thathappens and you get that
(39:59):
pandemonium.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Really, everybody in this incident, same incident
action plan.
Probably nobody was surprisedby any of the assignments that
they got, because when you'reoperating within a system and
you hear, you hear that you knowsize up of really describing
what the problem is and thenwhat the initial actions are of
that first company, you know wecan start really describing what
the problem is and then whatthe initial actions are, that
first company, you know we canstart to put together, well,
(40:21):
what might I need to do?
So, um, that's just what makesit roll so smoothly and that's
really just comes down toservice, right?
So, uh, the system lines rightup to service delivery of we're
there for the people to savethem and to save their stuff.
(40:42):
And in this case, because of anincident action plan, uh, they,
they rescued some people, theyput a fire out.
Quite frankly, they reduced uhdamage because they had an
incident action plan.
And we're not going to force 17apartment doors in here because
there's no need to, becausethere's no smoke behind the.
There's no smoke there, right?
(41:03):
So, um, everybody operatingwithin you know, one incident
action plan makes everything goso much smoother.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Well, excellent audio , josh.
We want to thank the FairfieldFire Department and their Chief,
tom Laycamp, and all of theirfirefighters and officers for
doing not only such a great jobbut also sharing that audio with
the Blue Card listeners for usto learn a little something from
reinforcing the program andgetting some notes for ourselves
, because I think there was alot to learn from this, a lot to
strive for as our organizationsto maybe do a little bit better
(41:38):
.
And we are looking for incidentaudio all the time.
If you have incident audio thatyou would like to share with
Blue Card listeners and BShifter listeners, please submit
it to us.
The information's in the shownotes.
We would love to have it.
And again, we don't put peopleon blast.
We're not here to critique.
We are just here to share somegood examples of the system
(42:00):
working.
Thanks for being here today,josh.
It's good to see you and we'lltalk to you soon.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Thanks, john, have a great day.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Thanks for listening to B Shifter.
We'll see you next time.
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