February 27, 2025 • 26 mins
We're excited to introduce the newly developed ARFF program, designed specifically for airport firefighting! This innovative training program focuses on enhancing incident command and control, crucial for improving operational efficiency and safety at airports.
- Introduction of the ARFF training program
- Discussion of the integration of the eight functions of command
- Personal experiences of team members in developing the ARF program
- Insights from JBlue Card instructors about practical applications and simulations
- Details regarding the certification process and its structure
- Emphasis on the importance of ongoing training and recertification
Read all about it here: https://conta.cc/3XggCaa
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Hello everyone and welcome to the B Shifter podcast
.
We've got John Vance here today, along with Jeffrey King, the
program manager from Blue Card.
We've got Sean Glazer, leadinstructor, and also another
instructor who's joining us forthe first time on B-Shifter from
Honolulu, Hawaii.
It's JT Aloha, JT, Thanks forbeing here with us.
(00:36):
And today we're talking ARF andwe have a brand new ARF module
that is part of the Blue Cardcurriculum that we are very
proud to be rolling out thisweek.
So we thought we would get onand talk about that a little bit
.
Let you know what you canexpect with the ARF module and
exactly what it entails, whoit's intended for and whatnot.
(01:01):
So thanks for joining us forour ARF conversation today.
I just want to start off andmaybe I'll throw it to Jeff
first what is the ARF programand what is it all about?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, I appreciate it , John.
The ARF program is prettysimple.
What we wanted to do was takethe eight functions of command
that existed in the standardFHIR command textbook that has
been reproduced a second timeand will be a third edition
coming out soon.
Take those eight functions ofcommand that existed in the
standard fire command textbookthat has been reproduced a
second time and will be a thirdedition coming out soon.
Take those eight functions ofcommand and be able to integrate
that into the ARF environment.
There wasn't really anything inthe ARF world that dictated
(01:35):
what incident command andcontrol would look like.
So being able to apply thefunctions of command to the ARF
world was very important.
So we started taking ourprogram and trying to model it
to fit what would be in thatenvironment.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So how did this come to fruition, what was the idea
behind this and how did we getto having a whole program just
for the ARF world?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I think the impetus was need.
When somebody contacts us as weall know with our CAN reports,
that needs are probably the mostimportant thing that we have
when we have a number of ourcustomers out there working in
ARF environments like JT beingone of them, who was trying to
take Blue Card itself and modelit for what they were doing in
their system, we realized thatthere was a much broader need,
(02:22):
because we had folks from allover the country, both
commercial and military, whowere looking for ways to
integrate Blue Card, or moreparticularly, fire Command and
the functions of command, intotheir system.
So we just decided to listen tothe needs of our people, find a
way to address those needs andstarted creating the programming
to help do that.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
And what we did is tapped into some of the
expertise of people that we werealready affiliated with.
Now Jeffrey puts together theeducation and professional
development for Blue Card, so hewas really the producer of this
, but we relied on our ownsubject matter experts and the
folks working in those fields tohelp us out in developing it.
(03:03):
Jt, I'm going to throw it toyou If you can just give us a
little bit of your backgroundand talk about your airport,
then we'll go over to Sean andtalk about his expertise in this
field and unfortunately, ChrisStewart was going to be here
today and we'll fill in for himon the back end, but he was one
of the other huge contributorsto this.
So, starting off with JT JT,what is your experience and what
(03:29):
are you bringing to this ARFprogram that we are launching
this week?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Yeah, thanks, john.
So my name is John Tabulo, fromHonolulu, hawaii.
I work out at Daniel K InouyeInternational Airport.
I'm a battalion chief out therewith about 24 years experience,
so under me we have twostations at our airport, about
20 ARF members there.
So the state of Hawaii, theycontrol all the airports in the
(03:58):
state, so all the islands, allthe major airports there are run
and owned by the state, so wehave about 265 odd members and
we started Blue Card back in2020.
Since then, we've seen dramatic, dramatic change in our
response efficiency and safety.
So ever since 2020, we've beentrying to overlay blue card into
(04:25):
our system and, um, there was,there was a few changes, um, but
it's important to know thebasic blue card system first.
It was important for us, so wewere able to manipulate it into
the ARF world, right?
So a lot of things that we do,we uh, we respond as a unit,
(04:45):
right.
We have at my airport we haveseven trucks, six major RF
apparatuses in one engine.
A lot of times we get on thescene the same time.
So I usually operate in my owncommand vehicle.
So now the initial radio reportchanged a little because we're
not building the response.
(05:06):
We all arrive at the same timeso we had to develop really SOP
driven initial actions thatbuild around Blue Card.
So those are the things that aswe develop, as I help Jeff and
Sean develop the program, a fewof the things from the R4 that
(05:28):
are maybe different from thestructural world.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Excellent.
Well, I think you know havingyour perspective certainly has
been huge on that commerciallevel.
Sean is from a world that's alittle different than that.
Why don't you give yourbackground, sean, and let us
know what you brought to thisprogram?
Thanks, jb, what?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
you brought to this program.
Thanks, jv.
My name is Sean Glazer.
I worked at Vandenberg AirForce Base for 31 years.
We have a flight line, athree-mile flight line, out
there, but there's no aircraftassigned because it's a Space
Force base.
So our main mission out therewas to launch missiles.
But we do have the flight lineand we have a lot of different
(06:11):
aircraft that come in and dotouch and goes and just practice
.
So what we had to do is westarted Blue Card in 2010.
And, just like JT's department,we had to integrate Blue Card
into the ARF world, to integratethe end of the blue card into
the RF world.
And what we did is just like JPwas saying.
You know, our initial ratereport changed a little bit, but
(06:37):
what we used was the strategicdecision making model.
So we looked at it as, hey, wehave an aircraft response.
We start off identifying thecritical fire ground factors and
that pushes us, based on riskmanagement, into our strategy
and then develop an IAP andfollow, just like JT was talking
about follow our SOPs andpolicy and continue to do that.
And when we looked at it thatway, like our response, using
(06:59):
the strategic decision-makingmodel, it was pretty easy to
convert into the ARF world.
We've been using it ever sincewe were speaking the blue card
language and we just made minorchanges and we felt that it was
never really formal for us untilnow, until we could actually
have a certification process forthe ARF.
(07:20):
So that's how we got startedwith it.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Excellent, and our comrade, chris Stewart, who is
not able to join us todayunfortunately.
He had something else come up,but he is also on this program
and part of the program and hespent a couple of years as the
battalion chief out of PhoenixSky Harbor Airport with the
Phoenix Fire Department,certainly a very busy commercial
(07:44):
airport.
If you've flown in or out of SkyHarbor you know just exactly
how active it is and I can'ttell you a time that I haven't
been in or out of there and Ihaven't seen some type of
activity on the field with thefire department.
And you know probably a lot ofthat is medical, emergency and
those types of things, but Ihave seen a couple of times
where, for one reason or another, they've had some kind of
(08:07):
deployment out there.
So it is a very active spaceand Chris certainly brought his
experience and expertise to theprogram as a huge contributor.
Tying that all together is JeffKing.
So, jeff, as the curriculummanager really for Blue Card,
what was your end of this, jeff?
(08:28):
And maybe you could bring ussome nuggets too on some things
that you discovered along theway as really our educational
expert who maybe didn't reallystart off as the ARF guy, but
got educated through thisprocess.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, hello, I had absolutely no background in ARF
whatsoever.
You know, I spent my time herewith the Houston Fire Department
and now with the Spring FireDepartment Houston.
We have some interaction withour folks and have some
guidelines that we had to studyin case we ever found ourselves
responding to an ARF incident atone of the two airports in the
system.
But my experience with ARF wasvery limited until we got into
(09:05):
this situation where I had totake a deep dive into trying to
understand exactly what we werelooking at and then trying to
figure out how do we take firecommand?
How do we take the functions ofcommand?
How do we take our strategicdecision making model and
integrate that into a completelydifferent world?
And the functions of thecommand remained the same.
As Sean talked about.
The strategic decision makingmodel doesn't change at all.
(09:26):
The only thing that reallychanged that we were talking
about is going from structural,which would be building,
occupancies and types, todealing with the category and
types of planes that we would bedealing with that would be
coming into our area.
So for me it was fascinating toget to understand those
different types of categoriesthat we were looking at and then
figure out okay.
Well, how do we make this workin a system that is already
(09:47):
proven itself time and timeagain to be functionally sound
and operationally efficient?
That my job was to take theinformation that was coming from
, you know, from JT, from Sean,from Chris Stewart, from some of
the other folks who looked atit from time to time, integrate
that into a curriculum packagethat we could put online so our
members could go through it andreally, what the folks will
(10:10):
notice if you're alreadycertified as a Blue Card IC,
you'll notice that it follows avery similar format that we go
through each function of command.
We kind of lay out the meaningand the understanding of that
function of command and then wetalk about it how it directly
applies in the ARF environment.
So they'll go through all.
They'll have an introduction,they'll go through all eight
functions of command.
There'll be quizzes and testsfor them to take.
(10:31):
We'll follow all the sameacademic rigors that we do in
every other program that we havewith on the back end, with the
hopes of being able to receiveaccreditation for it, and people
will be able to get theircollege hours as they complete
the program.
So we do more than offer justcertification for our programs
we offer an opportunity forpeople to gain, you know,
additional learning at a higherlevel, so baccalaureate level
(10:54):
classes.
So we're looking forward tobeing able to do that for ARF as
well.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So let's talk about the program, what it looks like
and really what the steps willbe in attaining that
certification.
Let's start off with thecertification.
Then at the back, we'll talkabout how people would become a
trainer if they wanted to becomea trainer.
But just starting off withsomeone who works at an airport
they're a BC, a captain orsomeone looking to act up and
(11:21):
they want to get involved in thecertification.
What does that look like?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So if you are interested in this program and
you're sitting there in your ARFworld and you're wanting to
become a certified ARF incidentcommander, the online program,
just like every other onlineprogram we have, is $385.
You'll go through all eightfunctions of command and once
you complete eight functions ofcommand, then you become
eligible to go through acertification lab.
(11:47):
If you are already certifiedand you're paying the $125 a
year for the full access to theBlue Card program, you can go
through the ARF IC module forjust $200.
And again, it's the same thingthat you go through on the
structural side it's the eightfunctions of command along with
the introduction.
So nine different modules, eachone focusing on a different
(12:08):
function of command as itapplies to the ARF environment,
and then, upon the conclusion ofthat, you'll get yourself set
up into your certification labVery similar process to what we
have on the structural side.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And then, on the back end of that, in order to be
certified, we're going to have avalidation of the skills and
that's going to be up to thetrainers to do that.
How's that train?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
the trainer process and instructor process look like
we're going to have avalidation of the skills and
that's going to be up to thetrainers to do that.
How's that train the trainerprocess and instructor process
look like?
So the train the trainerprocess we're actually getting
ready to have our first trainthe trainer in June.
It's going to be the 23rd tothe 25th, so the Monday through
Wednesday there, and we're goingto be doing that at our command
training center in Phoenix.
So that'll be an exciting timeand I think all the guys are
planning on being there for that.
(12:50):
Since it's kind of an inauguralrollout of a new program.
We're anticipating the trainthe trainer program to be about
a three day course for them togo through to understand the
different functions of commandand then we'll show them how to
go about validating their skillsets as an IC over those three
days and then they can go outand roll it out to their
individual organizations,departments and or our systems.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
And ongoing.
We're going to have the samerecertification philosophy
correct as we do.
And, jeff, why don't you firsttalk?
Because I think it's reallyhelpful for people to understand
why recertifying and anythingis important, along with you
know ARF, why, why do werecertify?
(13:33):
And then let's talk about whatour recertification process
looks like.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
This is.
It's a really big question inthe fire service the idea that I
could take any given class, anygiven training program, any
platform fire officer, fireinstructor.
I could take that one time andthen for the rest of my life,
carry that certification with novalidation, no going back and
making sure that I've tested myskills to be at a test ready
(13:58):
level at any given point.
It's absolutely ridiculous tothink that that's going to
maintain any sort of highstandard of professionalism.
If we look on our counterpartson the EMS side, they are
required to maintain theircertifications on a regular
basis their CPR cards, as simpleas that.
Their AED certifications, assimple as that.
They've got to make surethey're maintaining their EMT,
their basic, their intermediate,their paramedic, whatever they
(14:21):
are, to meet those requirements,to show that at any given point
they are continuing to findthemselves at a test-ready level
.
Well, at the incident commandlevel, which is probably one of
the most critical pieces of thefire service, you're commanding
all these different pieces thatare in motion at the same time
to not have a system in place tovalidate that regularly, to
ensure that for you and yourpeople in the communities you're
(14:43):
served, you're not working atthe highest acceptable level.
It's kind of silly.
So we maintain that every threeyears you're going to go
through, you're going tovalidate your skill sets again.
There'll be an online piece.
There'll be some continuingeducation classes you'll have to
take.
You'll take the littlerefresher quiz at the back end
of it and then you'll test outon your skills again just to
(15:04):
show that you still havecompetency.
We want to be a professionalorganization.
We want to be one that offersagain accreditation for what
you're doing, and part of beinga professional is being able to
demonstrate that you arecompetent in the skill sets you
say you can do and what's thetime commitment?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
roughly, I know people work at their pace, but
just when we generally givepeople the amount of hours they
think they're going to need tobudget for this anywhere in
(15:45):
between that 10 to 15 hours forthe online program the online
program you have access to thefire command textbook.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You have access to the SOP.
So there's a lot of additionalreading that you need to
understand because all thequizzing and all the testing is
coming out of the fire commandtextbook and the SOP.
So there's more work to be doneoffline than there is online,
but that's all part of it.
So really, with the onlineitself, anywhere between 10 to
15 hours, you should be able tofinish that and then expect two
(16:11):
to three days in thecertification lab, depending on
are you already certified as anIC or are you brand new to the
Blue Card process.
If you are certified as an IC,that certification lab might be
a day and a half two days.
If we're talking about somebodynew to Blue Card, it's going to
take a little bit longer toanswer some of those questions
and work through that.
So you're probably talkingabout a two to three day
(16:32):
timeframe on the cert lab forthem.
It just depends on wherethey're at.
Folks like JT, who've beendoing the program, who've been
integrating it for years, itwould be much quicker for them
to get certified because theyalready have that framework and
contextual understanding.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
But what do those sims look like?
I know you had a lot to do withthe sim building and you were a
part of that.
What kind of simulations arethere going to be?
Is it very similar to theregular blue card program or
does it look a lot different?
Speaker 4 (16:59):
I would say it's a lot like the blue card sims and
right now there's threesimulations.
They kind of escalate.
The first one starts off asyour typical, I think it's a
break fire at a gate.
So initial attack with a turret, the hand line comes off for
mop up and then a search to goall clear in the main cabin.
(17:19):
That's the first sim.
The second sim is an enginefire with a passenger deployment
.
So a little bit more involved.
I think that on that simthere's one extra occasion
that's got to get done.
And our last sim is a smallaircraft into a structure, a
hangar.
So again more involved,something that we just dealt,
(17:43):
dealt with, in fact, uh, thebeginning of the year we built
the sim last year and and justso happened in january had that
exact same.
It was scary, similar to that,but um, so that's how that
escalates.
So it should be enough.
It is enough to test the skillsand and build out a, an
(18:06):
probably what the basic instancethat they will encounter.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
I'm right now just on function number one, so I've
already started into it, eventhough I just wanted to go
through it and see what it is.
I haven't gotten to the pointyet on what that command
transfer looks like.
I haven't gotten to the pointyet on what that command
transfer looks like, is it?
Is it?
I mean you said there's a lotof like almost SOP driven type
stuff at the front end and ifyou're all arriving at the same
time, does IC number one usuallytake that from the front seat
(18:35):
of an ARF rig or is it usuallythe, the battalion chief
responding how is?
Is there the traditionalcommand transfer typically?
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Typically it really depends on the response time,
normally on the blue card system.
The structural side is thatfirst unit becomes IC1.
For my department we respondseven trucks and usually arrive
at the same time.
So I usually do ic1.
I don't transfer off, but I'malready in a strategic command
(19:09):
position already.
Um, and then from there, uh, wecan just start working, uh, the
tlos and whatnot.
But if let's say, we have ourfreight, that's already.
Maybe they're doing pre-fireplanning and something happens,
they come on scene, they'realready trained to be ic1 and
transfer that out to myself orincoming, another incoming bc to
(19:32):
take that strategic command andthen sean back to you on the
sets and reps.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So there's a sets and reps package that comes along
with this too yes, yeah, so thesets and reps, uh, pretty much
uh on the like, like we see whenwe're teaching the blue card
class for structure.
But we have different,different aircraft types
helicopter, cessna, some jets,commercial.
(20:00):
They range, they still gothrough.
You start off with your initialradio report and your follow-up
and they get into commandtransfer, assigning units, even
some priority traffic statuschange.
You know, like for the prioritytraffic, just like JT was
talking about, you get insidethe aircraft and you got a
passenger down in the aislewayso you got to call out priority
(20:20):
traffic and then you know,obviously the needs is a medic
unit to meet at right door, oneyou know.
So it mirrors pretty much whateverybody will be used to and
seeing on the structural, ifanybody's, if they have taken
the blue card command.
But it's so far we put ittogether and it seems to be
working pretty well.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
We mentioned earlier that this, this could be either
like an addition to Blue Card.
You know, you can just segueinto using this, but this could
be a standalone program.
You don't have to.
Just I want to reiterate, youdon't have to be Blue Card
certified, right.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Not at all.
Not at all.
It's designed right now as astandalone program.
So if you find yourself and youwork in an R system and you're
wanting some incident commandtraining to help you stabilize
and again I think JT nailed itas he talked about it in the
introduction that it's helpedimprove their operational
efficiency and it's helpedimprove safety of their
firefighters, and that's one ofthe things that we can say that
(21:15):
the fire command absolutely doesand the blue card training
system does for agencies acrossthe country.
So, no, you do not have to befamiliar with it, you don't have
to have an understanding of it.
You can come into it completelynew and you're going to go
through a very similarcertification process that our
structural brethren would gothrough.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Well, this is a big week for us.
We're really happy to berolling this out.
You guys did a lot of greatwork to get us to this point.
I will also be linking in theshow notes an article about this
, so if it's something youwanted to print off and give to
your chief or other officers inyour department to talk about,
that, you can go to the shownotes and follow the link and
(21:57):
print off that article.
Is there anything that wehaven't covered that we'd like
to cover?
Still about the ARF program.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
There's one thing I'd like to piggyback on.
That is this ARF certificationis not just for airport fire
departments, not just formilitary.
As you've seen on the newslately, aircraft incidents don't
just happen at the airport.
Most of them happen outside ofthe airport.
So I think it's important thatagencies know and they're
(22:25):
certified to be able to respondto these type of incidents.
I think that's where thisstandalone certification for ARF
comes in and really helps thatdepartment that may not have a
lot of experience in the ARFworld, but after taking this
program I think it'll at leastintroduce you to it and it'll
definitely make you a saferresponse.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, you think about all the departments out there
that have airport systems thatare near them that have no ARF
response whatsoever.
So you may be showing up to asituation and having to manage
an incident on an ARF field andhave no training whatsoever.
So this is a great opportunityfor a lot of folks to be able to
work on the functions ofcommand, which are you know.
(23:09):
Look, if you're tied to 1561and you look at the functions of
command, they're not muchdifferent, they're the exact
same.
It was because it was pulledoff the original fire command
textbook that was originallywritten by Alan B Brunicini.
So what we're doing is not new.
What we're doing in this sideof the equation is and it's a
great opportunity for folks whowant to make sure that if they
(23:32):
have to respond, either as partof a functioning ARF system or
responding to an airportemergency of any kind, that we
give them the command andcontrol structure that they need
to be successful.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
All right, guys, I'm very excited about this program
launching this week and, again,if you want information, you can
go to the show notes.
I appreciate everyone beinghere to explain it.
Hey, before we go, do you guyshave time to stick around for a
Timeless Tactical Truth?
(24:03):
Timeless Tactical Truth fromAlan Brunicini the best ICS.
It's flexible, scalable andfits any incident, small or
large.
Well, we're talking about acommand system here today that
is definitely flexible andscalable.
A lot of times it's adapted fora structure fire response, but
(24:25):
a lot of us use it for technicalrescue response and we're
talking about using it for ourresponse too.
What's your experience withthis fellas?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I think this is exactly what we've been talking
about.
We talked about the idea ofthere being an express need from
people in our industry wantingto have an incident command
system for their ARF incidentsour industry wanting to have an
incident command system fortheir ARF incidents and we've
been able to take something thatwas absolutely flexible,
absolutely scalable and designit to fit the type of incidents
that they respond to.
That's.
I mean, we've hit the nail onthe head with this timeless
(24:54):
tactical truth.
It couldn't be a moreappropriate one to pull out of
the deck than the one you happento get for us today.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, I agree, you know you think about the types
of responses that we have andBlue Card is built for those
type four and type fiveresponses and that's our meat
and potatoes.
That's most of the incidents wego on.
But you know that ICS systembeing flexible and scalable and
depending upon the incident,let's say, since we're talking
ARF, you get some of these thathave been on the news lately and
(25:23):
they turn into a type three,type two and even a type one
incident.
So I do think that it's youknow, as far as Blue Card and
the system that we use, it'sflexible and scalable and it
fits any incident we have.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Yeah, I agree with you, Since we've been using Blue
Card, we've been using bluecard, we've been able to scale
up large incidents and we'retalking, uh, 200 people on the
ground.
You know, without blue card, um, and, and what it the the base
that it created for us, weprobably wouldn't be able to do
that efficiently.
Um, so we've seen it.
(25:59):
We're true believers of thesystem and you know we use it on
a single rig response all theway up to seven, seven rig plus
mutual aid response to alarmfires.
So I mean a hundred percentbelieve in the system.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here today on B
Shifter.
We appreciate you sharing yourknowledge and thoughts on the
new ARF program that is nowavailable.
Go to bshiftercom If you wantto look into that, and you can
certainly give us a call or dropus an email if you've got some
(26:35):
specific questions.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You guys be safe and thanks for being on today, thank
you.
Thanks for having me.
Glad to be here.
Hello everyone and welcome to the B Shifter podcast
.
We've got John Vance here today, along with Jeffrey King, the
program manager from Blue Card.
We've got Sean Glazer, leadinstructor, and also another
instructor who's joining us forthe first time on B-Shifter from
Honolulu, Hawaii.
It's JT Aloha, JT, Thanks forbeing here with us.
(00:36):
And today we're talking ARF andwe have a brand new ARF module
that is part of the Blue Cardcurriculum that we are very
proud to be rolling out thisweek.
So we thought we would get onand talk about that a little bit
.
Let you know what you canexpect with the ARF module and
exactly what it entails, whoit's intended for and whatnot.
(01:01):
So thanks for joining us forour ARF conversation today.
I just want to start off andmaybe I'll throw it to Jeff
first what is the ARF programand what is it all about?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, I appreciate it , John.
The ARF program is prettysimple.
What we wanted to do was takethe eight functions of command
that existed in the standardFHIR command textbook that has
been reproduced a second timeand will be a third edition
coming out soon.
Take those eight functions ofcommand that existed in the
standard fire command textbookthat has been reproduced a
second time and will be a thirdedition coming out soon.
Take those eight functions ofcommand and be able to integrate
that into the ARF environment.
There wasn't really anything inthe ARF world that dictated
(01:35):
what incident command andcontrol would look like.
So being able to apply thefunctions of command to the ARF
world was very important.
So we started taking ourprogram and trying to model it
to fit what would be in thatenvironment.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So how did this come to fruition, what was the idea
behind this and how did we getto having a whole program just
for the ARF world?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I think the impetus was need.
When somebody contacts us as weall know with our CAN reports,
that needs are probably the mostimportant thing that we have
when we have a number of ourcustomers out there working in
ARF environments like JT beingone of them, who was trying to
take Blue Card itself and modelit for what they were doing in
their system, we realized thatthere was a much broader need,
(02:22):
because we had folks from allover the country, both
commercial and military, whowere looking for ways to
integrate Blue Card, or moreparticularly, fire Command and
the functions of command, intotheir system.
So we just decided to listen tothe needs of our people, find a
way to address those needs andstarted creating the programming
to help do that.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
And what we did is tapped into some of the
expertise of people that we werealready affiliated with.
Now Jeffrey puts together theeducation and professional
development for Blue Card, so hewas really the producer of this
, but we relied on our ownsubject matter experts and the
folks working in those fields tohelp us out in developing it.
(03:03):
Jt, I'm going to throw it toyou If you can just give us a
little bit of your backgroundand talk about your airport,
then we'll go over to Sean andtalk about his expertise in this
field and unfortunately, ChrisStewart was going to be here
today and we'll fill in for himon the back end, but he was one
of the other huge contributorsto this.
So, starting off with JT JT,what is your experience and what
(03:29):
are you bringing to this ARFprogram that we are launching
this week?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Yeah, thanks, john.
So my name is John Tabulo, fromHonolulu, hawaii.
I work out at Daniel K InouyeInternational Airport.
I'm a battalion chief out therewith about 24 years experience,
so under me we have twostations at our airport, about
20 ARF members there.
So the state of Hawaii, theycontrol all the airports in the
(03:58):
state, so all the islands, allthe major airports there are run
and owned by the state, so wehave about 265 odd members and
we started Blue Card back in2020.
Since then, we've seen dramatic, dramatic change in our
response efficiency and safety.
So ever since 2020, we've beentrying to overlay blue card into
(04:25):
our system and, um, there was,there was a few changes, um, but
it's important to know thebasic blue card system first.
It was important for us, so wewere able to manipulate it into
the ARF world, right?
So a lot of things that we do,we uh, we respond as a unit,
(04:45):
right.
We have at my airport we haveseven trucks, six major RF
apparatuses in one engine.
A lot of times we get on thescene the same time.
So I usually operate in my owncommand vehicle.
So now the initial radio reportchanged a little because we're
not building the response.
(05:06):
We all arrive at the same timeso we had to develop really SOP
driven initial actions thatbuild around Blue Card.
So those are the things that aswe develop, as I help Jeff and
Sean develop the program, a fewof the things from the R4 that
(05:28):
are maybe different from thestructural world.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Excellent.
Well, I think you know havingyour perspective certainly has
been huge on that commerciallevel.
Sean is from a world that's alittle different than that.
Why don't you give yourbackground, sean, and let us
know what you brought to thisprogram?
Thanks, jb, what?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
you brought to this program.
Thanks, jv.
My name is Sean Glazer.
I worked at Vandenberg AirForce Base for 31 years.
We have a flight line, athree-mile flight line, out
there, but there's no aircraftassigned because it's a Space
Force base.
So our main mission out therewas to launch missiles.
But we do have the flight lineand we have a lot of different
(06:11):
aircraft that come in and dotouch and goes and just practice
.
So what we had to do is westarted Blue Card in 2010.
And, just like JT's department,we had to integrate Blue Card
into the ARF world, to integratethe end of the blue card into
the RF world.
And what we did is just like JPwas saying.
You know, our initial ratereport changed a little bit, but
(06:37):
what we used was the strategicdecision making model.
So we looked at it as, hey, wehave an aircraft response.
We start off identifying thecritical fire ground factors and
that pushes us, based on riskmanagement, into our strategy
and then develop an IAP andfollow, just like JT was talking
about follow our SOPs andpolicy and continue to do that.
And when we looked at it thatway, like our response, using
(06:59):
the strategic decision-makingmodel, it was pretty easy to
convert into the ARF world.
We've been using it ever sincewe were speaking the blue card
language and we just made minorchanges and we felt that it was
never really formal for us untilnow, until we could actually
have a certification process forthe ARF.
(07:20):
So that's how we got startedwith it.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Excellent, and our comrade, chris Stewart, who is
not able to join us todayunfortunately.
He had something else come up,but he is also on this program
and part of the program and hespent a couple of years as the
battalion chief out of PhoenixSky Harbor Airport with the
Phoenix Fire Department,certainly a very busy commercial
(07:44):
airport.
If you've flown in or out of SkyHarbor you know just exactly
how active it is and I can'ttell you a time that I haven't
been in or out of there and Ihaven't seen some type of
activity on the field with thefire department.
And you know probably a lot ofthat is medical, emergency and
those types of things, but Ihave seen a couple of times
where, for one reason or another, they've had some kind of
(08:07):
deployment out there.
So it is a very active spaceand Chris certainly brought his
experience and expertise to theprogram as a huge contributor.
Tying that all together is JeffKing.
So, jeff, as the curriculummanager really for Blue Card,
what was your end of this, jeff?
(08:28):
And maybe you could bring ussome nuggets too on some things
that you discovered along theway as really our educational
expert who maybe didn't reallystart off as the ARF guy, but
got educated through thisprocess.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, hello, I had absolutely no background in ARF
whatsoever.
You know, I spent my time herewith the Houston Fire Department
and now with the Spring FireDepartment Houston.
We have some interaction withour folks and have some
guidelines that we had to studyin case we ever found ourselves
responding to an ARF incident atone of the two airports in the
system.
But my experience with ARF wasvery limited until we got into
(09:05):
this situation where I had totake a deep dive into trying to
understand exactly what we werelooking at and then trying to
figure out how do we take firecommand?
How do we take the functions ofcommand?
How do we take our strategicdecision making model and
integrate that into a completelydifferent world?
And the functions of thecommand remained the same.
As Sean talked about.
The strategic decision makingmodel doesn't change at all.
(09:26):
The only thing that reallychanged that we were talking
about is going from structural,which would be building,
occupancies and types, todealing with the category and
types of planes that we would bedealing with that would be
coming into our area.
So for me it was fascinating toget to understand those
different types of categoriesthat we were looking at and then
figure out okay.
Well, how do we make this workin a system that is already
(09:47):
proven itself time and timeagain to be functionally sound
and operationally efficient?
That my job was to take theinformation that was coming from
, you know, from JT, from Sean,from Chris Stewart, from some of
the other folks who looked atit from time to time, integrate
that into a curriculum packagethat we could put online so our
members could go through it andreally, what the folks will
(10:10):
notice if you're alreadycertified as a Blue Card IC,
you'll notice that it follows avery similar format that we go
through each function of command.
We kind of lay out the meaningand the understanding of that
function of command and then wetalk about it how it directly
applies in the ARF environment.
So they'll go through all.
They'll have an introduction,they'll go through all eight
functions of command.
There'll be quizzes and testsfor them to take.
(10:31):
We'll follow all the sameacademic rigors that we do in
every other program that we havewith on the back end, with the
hopes of being able to receiveaccreditation for it, and people
will be able to get theircollege hours as they complete
the program.
So we do more than offer justcertification for our programs
we offer an opportunity forpeople to gain, you know,
additional learning at a higherlevel, so baccalaureate level
(10:54):
classes.
So we're looking forward tobeing able to do that for ARF as
well.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So let's talk about the program, what it looks like
and really what the steps willbe in attaining that
certification.
Let's start off with thecertification.
Then at the back, we'll talkabout how people would become a
trainer if they wanted to becomea trainer.
But just starting off withsomeone who works at an airport
they're a BC, a captain orsomeone looking to act up and
(11:21):
they want to get involved in thecertification.
What does that look like?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So if you are interested in this program and
you're sitting there in your ARFworld and you're wanting to
become a certified ARF incidentcommander, the online program,
just like every other onlineprogram we have, is $385.
You'll go through all eightfunctions of command and once
you complete eight functions ofcommand, then you become
eligible to go through acertification lab.
(11:47):
If you are already certifiedand you're paying the $125 a
year for the full access to theBlue Card program, you can go
through the ARF IC module forjust $200.
And again, it's the same thingthat you go through on the
structural side it's the eightfunctions of command along with
the introduction.
So nine different modules, eachone focusing on a different
(12:08):
function of command as itapplies to the ARF environment,
and then, upon the conclusion ofthat, you'll get yourself set
up into your certification labVery similar process to what we
have on the structural side.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And then, on the back end of that, in order to be
certified, we're going to have avalidation of the skills and
that's going to be up to thetrainers to do that.
How's that train?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
the trainer process and instructor process look like
we're going to have avalidation of the skills and
that's going to be up to thetrainers to do that.
How's that train the trainerprocess and instructor process
look like?
So the train the trainerprocess we're actually getting
ready to have our first trainthe trainer in June.
It's going to be the 23rd tothe 25th, so the Monday through
Wednesday there, and we're goingto be doing that at our command
training center in Phoenix.
So that'll be an exciting timeand I think all the guys are
planning on being there for that.
(12:50):
Since it's kind of an inauguralrollout of a new program.
We're anticipating the trainthe trainer program to be about
a three day course for them togo through to understand the
different functions of commandand then we'll show them how to
go about validating their skillsets as an IC over those three
days and then they can go outand roll it out to their
individual organizations,departments and or our systems.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
And ongoing.
We're going to have the samerecertification philosophy
correct as we do.
And, jeff, why don't you firsttalk?
Because I think it's reallyhelpful for people to understand
why recertifying and anythingis important, along with you
know ARF, why, why do werecertify?
(13:33):
And then let's talk about whatour recertification process
looks like.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
This is.
It's a really big question inthe fire service the idea that I
could take any given class, anygiven training program, any
platform fire officer, fireinstructor.
I could take that one time andthen for the rest of my life,
carry that certification with novalidation, no going back and
making sure that I've tested myskills to be at a test ready
(13:58):
level at any given point.
It's absolutely ridiculous tothink that that's going to
maintain any sort of highstandard of professionalism.
If we look on our counterpartson the EMS side, they are
required to maintain theircertifications on a regular
basis their CPR cards, as simpleas that.
Their AED certifications, assimple as that.
They've got to make surethey're maintaining their EMT,
their basic, their intermediate,their paramedic, whatever they
(14:21):
are, to meet those requirements,to show that at any given point
they are continuing to findthemselves at a test-ready level
.
Well, at the incident commandlevel, which is probably one of
the most critical pieces of thefire service, you're commanding
all these different pieces thatare in motion at the same time
to not have a system in place tovalidate that regularly, to
ensure that for you and yourpeople in the communities you're
(14:43):
served, you're not working atthe highest acceptable level.
It's kind of silly.
So we maintain that every threeyears you're going to go
through, you're going tovalidate your skill sets again.
There'll be an online piece.
There'll be some continuingeducation classes you'll have to
take.
You'll take the littlerefresher quiz at the back end
of it and then you'll test outon your skills again just to
(15:04):
show that you still havecompetency.
We want to be a professionalorganization.
We want to be one that offersagain accreditation for what
you're doing, and part of beinga professional is being able to
demonstrate that you arecompetent in the skill sets you
say you can do and what's thetime commitment?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
roughly, I know people work at their pace, but
just when we generally givepeople the amount of hours they
think they're going to need tobudget for this anywhere in
(15:45):
between that 10 to 15 hours forthe online program the online
program you have access to thefire command textbook.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You have access to the SOP.
So there's a lot of additionalreading that you need to
understand because all thequizzing and all the testing is
coming out of the fire commandtextbook and the SOP.
So there's more work to be doneoffline than there is online,
but that's all part of it.
So really, with the onlineitself, anywhere between 10 to
15 hours, you should be able tofinish that and then expect two
(16:11):
to three days in thecertification lab, depending on
are you already certified as anIC or are you brand new to the
Blue Card process.
If you are certified as an IC,that certification lab might be
a day and a half two days.
If we're talking about somebodynew to Blue Card, it's going to
take a little bit longer toanswer some of those questions
and work through that.
So you're probably talkingabout a two to three day
(16:32):
timeframe on the cert lab forthem.
It just depends on wherethey're at.
Folks like JT, who've beendoing the program, who've been
integrating it for years, itwould be much quicker for them
to get certified because theyalready have that framework and
contextual understanding.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
But what do those sims look like?
I know you had a lot to do withthe sim building and you were a
part of that.
What kind of simulations arethere going to be?
Is it very similar to theregular blue card program or
does it look a lot different?
Speaker 4 (16:59):
I would say it's a lot like the blue card sims and
right now there's threesimulations.
They kind of escalate.
The first one starts off asyour typical, I think it's a
break fire at a gate.
So initial attack with a turret, the hand line comes off for
mop up and then a search to goall clear in the main cabin.
(17:19):
That's the first sim.
The second sim is an enginefire with a passenger deployment
.
So a little bit more involved.
I think that on that simthere's one extra occasion
that's got to get done.
And our last sim is a smallaircraft into a structure, a
hangar.
So again more involved,something that we just dealt,
(17:43):
dealt with, in fact, uh, thebeginning of the year we built
the sim last year and and justso happened in january had that
exact same.
It was scary, similar to that,but um, so that's how that
escalates.
So it should be enough.
It is enough to test the skillsand and build out a, an
(18:06):
probably what the basic instancethat they will encounter.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
I'm right now just on function number one, so I've
already started into it, eventhough I just wanted to go
through it and see what it is.
I haven't gotten to the pointyet on what that command
transfer looks like.
I haven't gotten to the pointyet on what that command
transfer looks like, is it?
Is it?
I mean you said there's a lotof like almost SOP driven type
stuff at the front end and ifyou're all arriving at the same
time, does IC number one usuallytake that from the front seat
(18:35):
of an ARF rig or is it usuallythe, the battalion chief
responding how is?
Is there the traditionalcommand transfer typically?
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Typically it really depends on the response time,
normally on the blue card system.
The structural side is thatfirst unit becomes IC1.
For my department we respondseven trucks and usually arrive
at the same time.
So I usually do ic1.
I don't transfer off, but I'malready in a strategic command
(19:09):
position already.
Um, and then from there, uh, wecan just start working, uh, the
tlos and whatnot.
But if let's say, we have ourfreight, that's already.
Maybe they're doing pre-fireplanning and something happens,
they come on scene, they'realready trained to be ic1 and
transfer that out to myself orincoming, another incoming bc to
(19:32):
take that strategic command andthen sean back to you on the
sets and reps.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So there's a sets and reps package that comes along
with this too yes, yeah, so thesets and reps, uh, pretty much
uh on the like, like we see whenwe're teaching the blue card
class for structure.
But we have different,different aircraft types
helicopter, cessna, some jets,commercial.
(20:00):
They range, they still gothrough.
You start off with your initialradio report and your follow-up
and they get into commandtransfer, assigning units, even
some priority traffic statuschange.
You know, like for the prioritytraffic, just like JT was
talking about, you get insidethe aircraft and you got a
passenger down in the aislewayso you got to call out priority
(20:20):
traffic and then you know,obviously the needs is a medic
unit to meet at right door, oneyou know.
So it mirrors pretty much whateverybody will be used to and
seeing on the structural, ifanybody's, if they have taken
the blue card command.
But it's so far we put ittogether and it seems to be
working pretty well.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
We mentioned earlier that this, this could be either
like an addition to Blue Card.
You know, you can just segueinto using this, but this could
be a standalone program.
You don't have to.
Just I want to reiterate, youdon't have to be Blue Card
certified, right.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Not at all.
Not at all.
It's designed right now as astandalone program.
So if you find yourself and youwork in an R system and you're
wanting some incident commandtraining to help you stabilize
and again I think JT nailed itas he talked about it in the
introduction that it's helpedimprove their operational
efficiency and it's helpedimprove safety of their
firefighters, and that's one ofthe things that we can say that
(21:15):
the fire command absolutely doesand the blue card training
system does for agencies acrossthe country.
So, no, you do not have to befamiliar with it, you don't have
to have an understanding of it.
You can come into it completelynew and you're going to go
through a very similarcertification process that our
structural brethren would gothrough.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Well, this is a big week for us.
We're really happy to berolling this out.
You guys did a lot of greatwork to get us to this point.
I will also be linking in theshow notes an article about this
, so if it's something youwanted to print off and give to
your chief or other officers inyour department to talk about,
that, you can go to the shownotes and follow the link and
(21:57):
print off that article.
Is there anything that wehaven't covered that we'd like
to cover?
Still about the ARF program.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
There's one thing I'd like to piggyback on.
That is this ARF certificationis not just for airport fire
departments, not just formilitary.
As you've seen on the newslately, aircraft incidents don't
just happen at the airport.
Most of them happen outside ofthe airport.
So I think it's important thatagencies know and they're
(22:25):
certified to be able to respondto these type of incidents.
I think that's where thisstandalone certification for ARF
comes in and really helps thatdepartment that may not have a
lot of experience in the ARFworld, but after taking this
program I think it'll at leastintroduce you to it and it'll
definitely make you a saferresponse.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, you think about all the departments out there
that have airport systems thatare near them that have no ARF
response whatsoever.
So you may be showing up to asituation and having to manage
an incident on an ARF field andhave no training whatsoever.
So this is a great opportunityfor a lot of folks to be able to
work on the functions ofcommand, which are you know.
(23:09):
Look, if you're tied to 1561and you look at the functions of
command, they're not muchdifferent, they're the exact
same.
It was because it was pulledoff the original fire command
textbook that was originallywritten by Alan B Brunicini.
So what we're doing is not new.
What we're doing in this sideof the equation is and it's a
great opportunity for folks whowant to make sure that if they
(23:32):
have to respond, either as partof a functioning ARF system or
responding to an airportemergency of any kind, that we
give them the command andcontrol structure that they need
to be successful.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
All right, guys, I'm very excited about this program
launching this week and, again,if you want information, you can
go to the show notes.
I appreciate everyone beinghere to explain it.
Hey, before we go, do you guyshave time to stick around for a
Timeless Tactical Truth?
(24:03):
Timeless Tactical Truth fromAlan Brunicini the best ICS.
It's flexible, scalable andfits any incident, small or
large.
Well, we're talking about acommand system here today that
is definitely flexible andscalable.
A lot of times it's adapted fora structure fire response, but
(24:25):
a lot of us use it for technicalrescue response and we're
talking about using it for ourresponse too.
What's your experience withthis fellas?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I think this is exactly what we've been talking
about.
We talked about the idea ofthere being an express need from
people in our industry wantingto have an incident command
system for their ARF incidentsour industry wanting to have an
incident command system fortheir ARF incidents and we've
been able to take something thatwas absolutely flexible,
absolutely scalable and designit to fit the type of incidents
that they respond to.
That's.
I mean, we've hit the nail onthe head with this timeless
(24:54):
tactical truth.
It couldn't be a moreappropriate one to pull out of
the deck than the one you happento get for us today.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, I agree, you know you think about the types
of responses that we have andBlue Card is built for those
type four and type fiveresponses and that's our meat
and potatoes.
That's most of the incidents wego on.
But you know that ICS systembeing flexible and scalable and
depending upon the incident,let's say, since we're talking
ARF, you get some of these thathave been on the news lately and
(25:23):
they turn into a type three,type two and even a type one
incident.
So I do think that it's youknow, as far as Blue Card and
the system that we use, it'sflexible and scalable and it
fits any incident we have.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Yeah, I agree with you, Since we've been using Blue
Card, we've been using bluecard, we've been able to scale
up large incidents and we'retalking, uh, 200 people on the
ground.
You know, without blue card, um, and, and what it the the base
that it created for us, weprobably wouldn't be able to do
that efficiently.
Um, so we've seen it.
(25:59):
We're true believers of thesystem and you know we use it on
a single rig response all theway up to seven, seven rig plus
mutual aid response to alarmfires.
So I mean a hundred percentbelieve in the system.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here today on B
Shifter.
We appreciate you sharing yourknowledge and thoughts on the
new ARF program that is nowavailable.
Go to bshiftercom If you wantto look into that, and you can
certainly give us a call or dropus an email if you've got some
(26:35):
specific questions.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
You guys be safe and thanks for being on today, thank
you.
Thanks for having me.
Glad to be here.
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