October 29, 2025 • 32 mins
How Your B2B Content Can Be Found by AI Search
Search engine optimization (SEO) is in a continuous state of evolution, and in the age of AI, it’s becoming increasingly complex. As AI-generated content shifts the way people search and Google’s algorithms adjust to this new dynamic, B2B marketers must have a more data-driven and strategic approach to SEO. So how can B2B companies leverage AI to increase visibility, build credibility, and generate more traffic?
That’s why we’re talking to Adrian Dahlin (Founder & CEO, Searchtosale.io), who shares proven strategies and expert insights on how your B2B content can be found by AI search. In this episode, Adrian discussed the evolving SEO landscape in the age of AI and highlighted the switch from traditional channel strategies to an authority strategy that builds trust and brand recognition. He emphasized the importance of platforms such as Reddit, Wikipedia, and LinkedIn for B2B SaaS companies to build credibility and search authority. Adrian also cautioned against self-promotional content and stressed the value of long-term planning and authentic thought leadership. He recommended tracking referral traffic from AI chatbots and user engagement metrics across community-driven platforms. Adrian also explained how B2B companies can learn from different SEO thought leaders and stay updated with emerging trends relevant to generative engine optimization (GEO).
https://youtu.be/K2p459QEA5s
Topics discussed in episode:
[2:32] How to shift from Channel Strategy to Authority Strategy to prepare for the evolving landscape of SEO and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO)
[8:08] How communities such as Reddit are becoming non-negotiable for Generative Engine Optimization (GEO)
[12:39] How GEO has changed the SEO landscape
[15:32] The core components of an effective GEO strategy and implementation process
[22:36] How to select the thought leaders from whom you can learn GEO
[26:10] Metrics for Generative Engine Optimization (GEO)
- Referral traffic
- Conversion and engagement rates of users from AI vs. other sources
- Community engagement on platforms like Reddit
[31:09] The evolving perspectives on GEO
Companies and links mentioned:
Christian Klepp 00:01
Search engine optimization can be somewhat confusing, and it’s become even more confusing in the age of AI, both because of how people use AI to generate content and because of how Google search itself is changing. There are those out there who claim that SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is dead. It isn’t. In fact, it’s more competitive now, which means you need a more refined approach. So how can B2B SaaS (Software as a Service) companies get AI to recommend their business? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Adrian Dahlin, who will be answering this question. He’s the Founder of Search To Sale, who creates content strategies that drive revenue from organic search and generative engines, tune in to find out more about what the B2B marketers mission is.
Christian Klepp 00:52
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Search engine optimization canbe somewhat confusing, and it's
become even more confusing inthe age of AI, both because of
how people use AI to generatecontent and because of how
Google search itself ischanging. There are those out
there who claim that SEO (SearchEngine Optimization) is dead. It
isn't. In fact, it's morecompetitive now, which means you
need a more refined approach. Sohow can B2B SaaS (Software as a
(00:23):
Service) companies get AI torecommend their business?
Welcome to this episode of theB2B Marketers on the Mission
podcast, and I'm your host,Christian Klepp. Today, I'll be
talking to Adrian Dahlin, whowill be answering this question.
He's the Founder of Search ToSale, who creates content
strategies that drive revenuefrom organic search and
generative engines, tune in tofind out more about what the B2B
(00:45):
marketers mission is.
All right. Adrian Dahlin,welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
Great to have you on. I'm reallylooking forward to this
conversation, because it's superpertinent to content marketing.
It's something that B2Bcompanies should be paying
(01:08):
attention to. So I'm going tocut to the chase, and we'll just
dive right in.
Awesome.
Fantastic. So Adrian, you're ona mission to help B2B SaaS
companies show up in AIinterfaces. So for this
conversation, let's kick it offwith two questions, and I'm
happy to repeat them. So thefirst question is, what is it
about generative engineoptimization or GEO that you
(01:32):
wish more B2B SaaS companiesunderstood, that's the first
question. And the secondquestion is, where do you see
marketing teams struggleregarding you both.
We have right now is a stage ofevolution where we're
overlapping between the OldWorld and the New World. And the
tactics that work to get youranked in Google, get you
(01:54):
mentioned by an LLM (LargeLanguage Model ) are relatively
similar to the way SEO hasn'tworking for years, but the
paradigm is fundamentallyshifting, and basically what
that means is that you can dopretty well at getting mentioned
by ChatGPT by doing a good jobat traditional SEO, but the risk
(02:17):
is that you're not preparing forthe future by not actually
changing the paradigm of how youthink about this.
Care to elaborate on that alittle bit more, especially that
last sentence, like, you know,preparing yourself. How should
companies prepare themselves?Right?
And I think it actually, itprobably starts with timeframe
for your goals. If you're in anorganization that has short term
(02:39):
incentives, like your startupthat needs quick wins to get a
couple of enterprise customersso that you can raise your next
round of funding. You'reprobably sticking a little bit
more with the tried and truestuff that has always worked.
But if you have the ability tothink long term, then you really
(03:04):
want to work on changing yourthinking. If you have the
ability to plan long term, youwant to change how you're
thinking about digital marketingfundamentally. And one of those
shifts is from a channelstrategy to what I'm calling an
authority strategy. So a channelstrategy is a big way about how
(03:27):
marketers would think aboutparticularly the go to market
process, where you're decidinginitially where we should even
be investing in the first place.You consider who your audience
is, you do some research aboutwhere they spend time online,
and you pick a couple ofplatforms, you're probably not
trying to be everywhere. We'retrying to focus on a couple of
channels. And most channels, Ithink you can describe as a
(03:52):
place where supply and demandinteract. And if you play by
certain rules and bestpractices, you can do pretty
well.
So Facebook, like, 14 years ago,I was like working on Facebook
as a marketing channel,interactions between customers
(04:12):
and companies play about certainrules you can do well. Tiktok
today, paid search anotherchannel. What's different about
AI is that ChatGPT, or any otherAI chat bot is not a channel,
because the supply side is notpresent. It's not engaging
(04:37):
directly with the customer. Youhave customers engaging with a
large language model, which islooking at the entire Internet.
Well, rather, its brain istrained on the entire internet,
and then when you give it aquery, it's looking at some of
the Internet to help inform itsanswer. In many cases, when
you're doing a kind of a search,type of a query in ChatGPT.
(04:59):
Yeah, so this AI is makingchoices. It's doing curation and
filtering among all theinformation on the web to give
you an answer to your query.
And the analogy that I'mstarting to use a lot is that AI
is like a consultant working foryour customer, you actually want
(05:24):
to think of it like a person.The way a person reads a bunch
of information, it consumes abunch of information,
synthesizes, it comes up with apoint of view that's, that's
what AI is doing. It has theability to look at it much more
information than a human can,and it's not as good yet as we
are at synthesizing thatinformation. But when you think
(05:49):
about AI more like a person,like a brain, then I think the
strategies that emerge from thatare going to work in a longer
term way. Those will be moredurable strategies than just
doing the tried and true stuffthat hasn't worked for SEO for
the last bunch of years.
That certainly is an interestinganalogy. I've never heard of AI
(06:11):
being compared that way before,like the one that I always hear
is you treat it like an internor you treat it like a co-pilot.
But there's, there's definitelysomething to be said about
treating it like a brain?
Yeah, I mean, I think treatingit like an intern is useful when
you're using AI to get stuffdone, you know, you're building
workflows, you're askingquestions, you're even if you're
(06:34):
asking it to, like, work oncontent, whatever, and but we're
talking about when, when kind ofuse cases where someone is,
like, researching productoptions or the kinds of queries
that make sense to try to marketto. That's where I think this
other paradigm of AI asconsultant makes sense. Yeah.
And if you imagine, imaginethose human consultants, you
(06:56):
know your job, if, if you'relike a software company that
tends to sell through partners,your job is to get in the brain
of the partner, to get in thebrain of the consultant. So
that's podcasts and maybe booksand trade shows and conferences.
So what's the analogy for those?For AI, that's where we start to
(07:19):
get to the tactics of where youwant to show up online. You want
to show up in the places whereAI is forming its view of your
world. And what we're learningis that that's a lot of our own
media and platforms like Redditand Quora and Wikipedia and
these, these kind of communityspaces that demonstrate
(07:44):
credibility, particularly whenthat credibility is propped up
by an authority like a industry,media company or the wisdom of
the crowd.
Exactly. I'm going to move us onto the next question about key
pitfalls that you thinkmarketing teams need to avoid
(08:05):
when it comes to this topic, andwhat should they be doing
instead?
So the number one cited websitein LLM answers is Reddit, which
has created this whole newincentive to be more present on
Reddit as a marketer, and thatcomes, certainly comes with
(08:26):
pitfalls, because Reddit cares alot about the quality of its
platform. Moderators ofcommunities care a lot about the
quality of the conversationhappening in those communities.
So a pitfall definitely would beto jump on to Reddit, because
you hear that it gets cited alot, and post a bunch of self
(08:48):
promotional stuff, because youare risking getting shadow
banned by Reddit itself bydisobeying their rule of thumb
that only 10% of your postsshould be promotional, and you
might be disobeying moderatorpolicies about particular
communities, in which case yourstuff might just get deleted by
(09:09):
moderators.
What's your take on that? Like,because I've seen that a lot
actually, about Reddit. Like, isthat, is that a platform that
you would recommend B2Bcompanies be on? Or is it
something like you shouldapproach with caution?
Yes and yes.
Yes and yes?
Yeah. I mean, you just can't,you can't deny the impact of
(09:32):
being, by far, the number onesided website by LLMs. So
there's, there's the nativebenefit of Reddit where, like,
it's probably the case your B2Bsolution. It's probably the case
that people are talking aboutyour space on Reddit already
because, because people willtalk about everything on Reddit.
(09:53):
And so there's, there's, like, anative opportunity to be part of
the conversation on thatplatform. Reddit is so good at.
At segmenting people into areasof interest and also like the
cool thing about being a user onReddit is that you can have many
interests, and you get to go todifferent feeds to discuss those
things, which allows for thisdepth of conversation. It's
(10:15):
what's kind of annoying aboutposting on social media when you
have a niche interest, becauseonly a fraction of your
followers are going to beinterested in that. So that
makes it such a good place tohave focused in depth
conversations about anything,and regardless of what you're
selling, there's probably aconversation happening there
about maybe your actualsolution, certainly stuff around
(10:40):
it, stuff related to it. Sothere's this native benefit of
being part of the conversation,building your brand through
answering people's questions,giving advice, sharing, sharing
how you do things in nonpromotional ways, being helpful,
the fundamental principle we'vealways had a marketing which
would be helpful.
(11:01):
And then there's the secondarybenefit that some of that stuff
might get picked up by LLMs.Like, there might be some
question that someone asked inReddit. You post a really nice
answer that gets upvoted a lot.Someone asks a similar question
in ChatGPT or Google's AI mode,and your answer in that Reddit
(11:22):
thread gets cited, gets shown inthat response. So businesses
like you pretty much have to bethinking about it again if you
want a future proof, if you'retrying to plan for the long
term, you definitely you got tojump on Reddit, and you got to
see just how, what the scale ofthe opportunity is in your
(11:43):
space. Are people talking aboutthis? Are there really rich
communities of people talkingabout your industry? And then,
and then figure out how? Andyes, yes, that means proceeding
with caution and care and like,slowly, but it's becoming a non
negotiable.
Yeah, interesting. Interestingbecause I'm seeing a lot of
(12:05):
people talking about it, like,on platforms like LinkedIn, but
then there's also, like, if youGoogle it, like, there's,
there's a lot of articles outthere about, like, how you
should go about establishingthat digital presence on Reddit,
right? So that's, um, that'spretty interesting. Um, you
brought this up, like, a while,a while ago, and I wanted to
just maybe dig a little bitdeeper, do a bit more prodding,
(12:27):
but um, how, from yourexperience, how do you think GEO
has changed the game, and how,what should B2B marketers be
Paying attention to?
How has it changed the game?Well, first by sowing rampant
anxiety among digital marketerseverywhere, the anxiety that
(12:51):
comes from uncertainty, and sopresenting us all with the
opportunity to adapt and learnand face our fears. It's forcing
marketers to learn new skills.You could debate if this is a
good or a bad thing. It will be.It will be both good and bad. In
different cases, it can beeasier to quote, unquote rank in
(13:14):
ChatGPT than it was in Googlebefore, because traditionally,
you'd have to invest a fairamount in content on your
website that's high quality andtargeting the topics that people
are looking for. And you'd wantto invest in backlinks from
sites, ideally, that haveauthority and rank for similar
(13:37):
terms that yours is trying torank for, and all the technical
infrastructure of your site tomake sure you're not kind of
accidentally signaling to Googlenot to rank your site, and
especially because of thematurity of SEO, that's no
longer easy to game, so you haveto invest in doing it well. And
(13:58):
it's and it's a kind of agradual process to earn domain
authority.
In LLMs, there are these quickwins that can happen. Where,
like the example, in the Redditexample, you might find that
there's a vastly there'sactually just, like one really
relevant thread that alreadyexists about your product
(14:19):
category, and just dropping ananswer in that existing thread,
if there's an opportunity, ifthere's like a gap, or someone
hasn't actually answered thequestion that well, yet you
might be able to drop in therewith a really good answer. They
get some visibility, and thatthread gets cited. And there you
are. You do that one thing, andsuddenly you're getting excited
(14:42):
at the top for LLM questions onthis topic, right? And there's
other things like that where youcan do the there are like lean
tactics that can kind of get youvisibility with less investment.
Now. That will probably changeas the whole world shifts to
(15:03):
understanding these tactics,then we get more flooded, for
better and worse, with peopletrying to gain this system.
Right, right. So I know you'vementioned this some of us
already before, but like youknow from your experience, can
you provide examples of how B2Bcompanies can get AI to
recommend their businesses. Sospecifically, what steps should
(15:26):
they be taking? What are some ofthose key components that need
to be in that process?
I think this is actually one ofthe times that it's probably a
really good idea to work with anoutside partner, but to vet them
well for kind of being up todate on these AI tactics,
(15:46):
because it's going to be hard todo a fully flesh GEO program
internally, unless you have apretty large team and a lot of
capacity and a lot of like, justdesire and curiosity and
willingness to experiment. Sofirst off is the right people in
place. And then it's a matter oflike looking at the sites that
(16:09):
tend to get cited the most byLLMs, Reddit is at the top.
Close to the top are Wikipedia.Quora was on the list. LinkedIn
is on the list, thinking of B2Bspecifically. There's other
stuff that's not relevant to B2Bthat's high on the list of
citations, looking at those andthen doing some research about
(16:33):
if your audience spends time onthose platforms, because
ideally, you want to invest inplatforms that have native,
inherent benefits and thesecondary benefit of boosting
LLM visibility.
So like, let's find out if youraudience uses Reddit, if there's
conversations about your spaceon Reddit, on Quora, maybe
(16:53):
niche, niche industry forumsthat are similar, but more
focused. So validate where youraudience is spending time, and
then, and then be focused, youknow, it's probably Reddit or
Quora or LinkedIn or somethingthat's in a niche in your
industry. And then, and thenreally invest in being present,
(17:17):
in demonstrating thoughtleadership and being helpful,
and actually buildingrelationships. Think of it as a
relationship building project,where you're you're a part of
the conversation, and you're notgoing for silver bullets and for
one one thread to to rule allthreads, but you're just present
in the conversation, becausepeople will actually people in
your niche will get to know youthat way, and plus you're
(17:42):
increasing like the level ofbrand visibility and mentions on
the platform that's going toultimately drive LLM citations.
So picking probably one to focuson for those in that category of
communities and forums where aconversation is happening and
(18:04):
citations tend to come a secondpillar is going to be the earned
media side of things. So this isanother, another signal of brand
authority when either a verylarge media entity with
national, internationalcredibility, or a credible,
(18:25):
focused industry publicationtalks about your brand. You
know, it can be quoting your...we're talking like startups. It
might be just kind of tellingthe founder story and getting
quotes from the CEO in one ofthose publications, might be
sharing your point of view, theold digital PR playbook, which
(18:50):
is, and this is one of thoseareas that it's like SEO, people
were kind of aware of, butunless you were really doing
holistic SEO, you probablyweren't touching digital PR. So
it's kind of a new muscle, butit's increasingly valuable,
again, for its inherentbenefits. Of course, it's good
if people find you while readingan industry publication, and the
secondary benefit that itsignals authority to AI and will
(19:14):
increase the chances that youget listed.
And I think if I understand thisisn't this is one of the newer
areas for me that I'm stilltrying to wrap my head around.
But I think the actualmechanisms by which earned media
effect GEO include actualcitations, but also the general
impression that the LLM has ofyour brand's place in its
(19:39):
industry. So like, the goal withthe digital PR, I think, is not
just that the piece where yourCEO gets quoted gets cited in
LLM answers, but it's that themore your name is associated
with your industry, the morelikely that LLM brain is to
include you once. Someone asks aquestion like, What are the best
(20:02):
providers of x? And in thatcase, there might not be a
citation that actually showsthat breadcrumb trail when
you're looking at your LLManswer. It's just that the brain
has been trained by theassociations between your brand
and your industry and yourcompetitors, so you make it onto
a top 10 List?
(20:24):
Yeah, it's interesting that youbrought up that topic of digital
PR, because I've, I've heardthat from at least three other
experts in this particular area.Do you think that? And I'm just,
you know, I'm curious here,like, do you think that
previously, with traditionalSEO, marketers were not paying
(20:45):
as much attention to it? Butnow, with GEO, because it gets
because of these citations onChatGPT and so forth, it's given
a bit more limelight.
I don't know if it's gettingmore attention overall.
Definitely different people aregiving it attention.
Right, right.
So LLMs gave a new cohort ofpeople a reason to care about
(21:11):
digital PR. There's, of course,always been people. There's
always been the PR people arethe people whose worldview leans
on that as a viable channel,yeah, but it's like, yeah, I
think, I think that, like thetech people maybe are paying
more attention, and definitelySEO people are paying more
(21:31):
attention.
Well, probably is linked backto, I guess, if a SaaS company
is thinking about, like theirtarget audience, and in B2B,
that tends to be a buyingcommittee. And the buying
committee usually consists ofpeople in different role, with
different roles andresponsibilities, technical and
non technical. So there may besome association there.
(21:53):
You're saying, like differentpeople on the buying committee
with like different biases, orkind of pay attention to
different channels.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean,that's, that's my working
assumption, just based on whatyou've been saying, yeah, yeah,
yeah. Okay, fantastic. So we getto the point in the conversation
where we're talking aboutactionable tips. And Adrian,
you've given us a ton here, allright, but if you were to, and
(22:16):
this is almost like a recapquestion, right? Like, if you
were to, like, recap all thisadvice that you've been giving
us now, for someone that'slistening to this conversation
and you want them to walk awaywith three to five things that
they can take action on rightnow as it pertains to GEO, what
would those things be?
(22:36):
Yeah, for the marketing leader,right now is a super important
time to be learning from othersmart people. So LinkedIn is
probably the best place forthat. Maybe Reddit, maybe
podcasts, but find maybe findpeople who have smart things to
(23:01):
say, insightful things to sayabout GEO and look for in
picking kind of your sources.Look for those that cite data,
maybe their own, if they haveaccess to a lot of data, like if
they run an agency with lots ofclients. But even better, those
(23:22):
that are like looking at doingtheir own research on large
public data sets, or, you know,purchased large data sets, or
like Ahrefs publishes great dataand interesting studies. You
know, if someone is citing anAhrefs study about Gemini,
that's a good signal.
(23:46):
Look for intellectual honesty inwhat they're talking about. If
it's clear that everything theysay is about articulating a
worldview that benefits thething they're trying to sell
that's not that's, don'tprioritize that thought leader,
but find the one who's obviouslyreally interested in finding the
(24:09):
truth and has like, uncertainty,accepts uncertainty, and can be
wrong. And like, if you seethat, like they post something
about I said this six monthsago, and I'm changing my mind as
things have evolved. So yeah,find some people to learn from.
(24:31):
Since I mentioned Ahrefs, RyanLaw, who's their content
marketing leader, is a greatLinkedIn follow. He obviously
does have something to sell, butbecause their business is data,
he's great at content andthey're great at research, he's
a really good follow, so that'swhat allows you and then, and
then I said, like a roughlyfive, so you get a little bit
(24:52):
diversity of perspectives anddifferent people who are kind of
looking at different things thatwill help you. Stay on top of
things, because things arechanging. And like, I feel like
I said a lot in thisconversation that was presented
with a relative degree ofconfidence, and like a whole lot
(25:12):
of what I've just said could bewrong in in a few months, that's
why I want to stay in touch withpeople who are themselves really
staying abreast and remainingcurious about what actually
works.
Well, because it's to your pointthat you brought up earlier in
the conversation. This is acontinuously evolving ecosystem.
Yeah, and that's currently aquickly evolving one, and it's
(25:35):
like not a lot is not a lot ofsettled right now. There's,
there's, there's emergingcorrelation between what people
are doing and things we seehappening in LLMs. We don't know
anything about causation rightnow.
Exactly, exactly. Okay. Movingon to the next question, like in
(25:56):
terms of metrics, because youkind of can't talk about things
like SEO and GEO, if we don'ttalk about metrics, right? So
what are like? Maybe three tofive key metrics that you think
B2B marketers should be payingattention to.
B2B metrics, marketers workingon GEO, it's definitely a less
(26:16):
data rich space than SEO,because we don't know the volume
of queries prompts being done inchat bots, so we can only make
guesses about what people howpeople would interact with a
chat bot. Or you could do realcustom research and ask people,
(26:39):
What are you putting intoChatGPT when you're researching
x. So you can have real dataabout what people are doing, but
you don't know how much, the waywe know monthly search volumes
for Google.
So one of the things you canmeasure is referral traffic, and
I do find that super compelling.How much traffic is coming to
(27:03):
your website from ChatGPT,Perplexity, etc, but we don't
want to think about that trafficthe same way we thought about
referral traffic in the past,because coming, because it's
coming at the end of what mighthave been quite a long
interaction with the chat bot,and so one of the theories right
(27:28):
now, where there's some emergingresearch about this, is that
referral traffic from AI chatbots is higher Quality and
higher converting because theyhave just that user has just
learned a whole lot about youand your competitors, probably
in their AI interaction, andthey have all this context, and
(27:50):
they learn some thingsspecifically about what you
offer. And they decided thatthat you, what you're doing is
well enough, relevant enough towhat they need to click on a
citation which, let's be honest,is not presented as the goal of
the chat bot the way Googlewants. Its whole purpose was
directing you to one of 10 bluelinks.
The AI chat bot. I mean, it's aplatform like social media that
(28:16):
whose main incentive is that youuse it more so that you get more
value out of it, and they caneither charge more for it in the
future or add in an ad platformthat benefits from your eyeballs
so track traffic to your site.Think about it differently.
Compare the conversion, comparethe engagement and conversion
(28:39):
for a cohort of users that comefrom LLMs versus other sources.
See if you can validate thisassumption that it's higher
value. Traditional rankings areuseful. The correlation is
positive, but definitely not oneto one between ranking well on
(29:02):
Google and showing up in an LLManswer. So it's like you still
want to rank in Google. I mean,Google is still, by far, a much
larger discovery platform thanall the other AI is combined. So
work on ranking in Google andthen use that user ranking as
one of the inputs to yourassessment of how well you're
(29:25):
doing with GEO.
For the like digital, PR ormedia side of things. I'm newer
to that world. I don't reallyknow the variety KPIs (Key
Performance Indicators) forReddit. We're, I mean, we're
paying attention right now, inthe early days, to the karma of
the profiles that are engaging,because you need history on
(29:47):
Reddit to be allowed to engage.So user user karma, part of the
Reddit game now is having an ownsubreddit. AKA community that's
like in your niche, or maybetied to your brand. And so
membership and engagement in acommunity, if you're a moderator
(30:09):
of one, that's a decent metric.Overall though, I have to say
where you've probably heard theterm zero click marketing. We
are moving away from theparadigm where everything is
measurable and like let's keepmeasuring the stuff that's
(30:31):
helpful to measure, while notletting that form our entire
picture of what a marketingstrategy looks like, or what
success looks like.
Absolutely, yeah. Let's not letthat be the deterrent or the
impediment to move forward,right?
Yeah, yeah.
Fantastic, fantastic. Okay, twomore questions. I'll let you go.
(30:54):
So what is the status quo inyour area of expertise? So in
this case, GEO, that youpassionately disagree with, and
why?
I had trouble with thisquestion.
I'm sure you did.
I think I'm a little bit jealousof people who are really
contrarian, and I still knowthat I am. The best thing I came
(31:18):
up with, well, I kind of alreadyhave talked about, which is just
don't think about GEO the wayyou're thinking about SEO.
Right.
Even though I come from the SEOworld, I come relatively
recently from the SEO world.I've been focused on SEO for
three years. So you know, like Iwas making the decision to niche
my business from digitalmarketing generally down to SEO
(31:40):
exactly as ChatGPT launchedalmost three years ago.
Okay, well.
So it's like, I'm coming intoGEO from SEO kind of but I don't
have the all of the inertia ofpeople who have been in SEO for
20 years. And yet, somethingyou'll really often hear in SEO
circles is people basicallysaying it's the same GEO is just
the same as SEO. And this getsat what I said right at the
(32:03):
start of the call, which is,many of the tactics are the
same, but the paradigm istotally different. So it's like,
keep thinking the same way atyour own peril. GEO is not SEO.
Yep, yep, not exactly, exactly.Adrian, this has been a great
conversation, especially becausethis is all new territory, not
(32:25):
just for you know, you're theexpert in this area. It's like
for all of us, right?
So sort of.
This is something, this issomething that we all need to,
like, continuously learn about,because it's, it's just gonna
keep, keep growing from here, atleast from what you've been
saying, right? So, thanks againfor coming on the show, for
sharing your expertise with theaudience. Quick introduction to
(32:46):
yourself and how folks out therecan get in touch with you.
I'm Adrian Dahlin, Founder ofSearch To Sale, a full service
done for you. SEO and GEO agencyfocused on B2B. I'm based in
Seattle. I love fitness in theoutdoors and music. Any of your
listeners in Seattle I wouldlove to connect with. I'm trying
(33:10):
to network more locally, and I'mactually starting a community
for small business people inSeattle, so a little niche call
out there. You can find me onLinkedIn. Adrian Dahlin, you can
find me on Reddit and AdrianDahlin.
(33:31):
Yeah, it'd be kind of weird if,like you talked about Reddit
this whole time, and then you'renot actually on there.
Yeah, I am on there, but I'veonly been using it regularly as
of recently.
Fair enough. Okay, fantastic,fantastic. All right, so once
again, Adrian, thanks for comingon the show. Take care, stay
safe and talk to you soon.
Thank you very much for theopportunity.
(33:52):
All right. Bye for now.
Search engine optimization canbe somewhat confusing, and it's
become even more confusing inthe age of AI, both because of
how people use AI to generatecontent and because of how
Google search itself ischanging. There are those out
there who claim that SEO (SearchEngine Optimization) is dead. It
isn't. In fact, it's morecompetitive now, which means you
need a more refined approach. Sohow can B2B SaaS (Software as a
(00:23):
Service) companies get AI torecommend their business?
Welcome to this episode of theB2B Marketers on the Mission
podcast, and I'm your host,Christian Klepp. Today, I'll be
talking to Adrian Dahlin, whowill be answering this question.
He's the Founder of Search ToSale, who creates content
strategies that drive revenuefrom organic search and
generative engines, tune in tofind out more about what the B2B
(00:45):
marketers mission is.
All right. Adrian Dahlin,welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
Great to have you on. I'm reallylooking forward to this
conversation, because it's superpertinent to content marketing.
It's something that B2Bcompanies should be paying
(01:08):
attention to. So I'm going tocut to the chase, and we'll just
dive right in.
Awesome.
Fantastic. So Adrian, you're ona mission to help B2B SaaS
companies show up in AIinterfaces. So for this
conversation, let's kick it offwith two questions, and I'm
happy to repeat them. So thefirst question is, what is it
about generative engineoptimization or GEO that you
(01:32):
wish more B2B SaaS companiesunderstood, that's the first
question. And the secondquestion is, where do you see
marketing teams struggleregarding you both.
We have right now is a stage ofevolution where we're
overlapping between the OldWorld and the New World. And the
tactics that work to get youranked in Google, get you
(01:54):
mentioned by an LLM (LargeLanguage Model ) are relatively
similar to the way SEO hasn'tworking for years, but the
paradigm is fundamentallyshifting, and basically what
that means is that you can dopretty well at getting mentioned
by ChatGPT by doing a good jobat traditional SEO, but the risk
(02:17):
is that you're not preparing forthe future by not actually
changing the paradigm of how youthink about this.
Care to elaborate on that alittle bit more, especially that
last sentence, like, you know,preparing yourself. How should
companies prepare themselves?Right?
And I think it actually, itprobably starts with timeframe
for your goals. If you're in anorganization that has short term
(02:39):
incentives, like your startupthat needs quick wins to get a
couple of enterprise customersso that you can raise your next
round of funding. You'reprobably sticking a little bit
more with the tried and truestuff that has always worked.
But if you have the ability tothink long term, then you really
(03:04):
want to work on changing yourthinking. If you have the
ability to plan long term, youwant to change how you're
thinking about digital marketingfundamentally. And one of those
shifts is from a channelstrategy to what I'm calling an
authority strategy. So a channelstrategy is a big way about how
(03:27):
marketers would think aboutparticularly the go to market
process, where you're decidinginitially where we should even
be investing in the first place.You consider who your audience
is, you do some research aboutwhere they spend time online,
and you pick a couple ofplatforms, you're probably not
trying to be everywhere. We'retrying to focus on a couple of
channels. And most channels, Ithink you can describe as a
(03:52):
place where supply and demandinteract. And if you play by
certain rules and bestpractices, you can do pretty
well.
So Facebook, like, 14 years ago,I was like working on Facebook
as a marketing channel,interactions between customers
(04:12):
and companies play about certainrules you can do well. Tiktok
today, paid search anotherchannel. What's different about
AI is that ChatGPT, or any otherAI chat bot is not a channel,
because the supply side is notpresent. It's not engaging
(04:37):
directly with the customer. Youhave customers engaging with a
large language model, which islooking at the entire Internet.
Well, rather, its brain istrained on the entire internet,
and then when you give it aquery, it's looking at some of
the Internet to help inform itsanswer. In many cases, when
you're doing a kind of a search,type of a query in ChatGPT.
(04:59):
Yeah, so this AI is makingchoices. It's doing curation and
filtering among all theinformation on the web to give
you an answer to your query.
And the analogy that I'mstarting to use a lot is that AI
is like a consultant working foryour customer, you actually want
(05:24):
to think of it like a person.The way a person reads a bunch
of information, it consumes abunch of information,
synthesizes, it comes up with apoint of view that's, that's
what AI is doing. It has theability to look at it much more
information than a human can,and it's not as good yet as we
are at synthesizing thatinformation. But when you think
(05:49):
about AI more like a person,like a brain, then I think the
strategies that emerge from thatare going to work in a longer
term way. Those will be moredurable strategies than just
doing the tried and true stuffthat hasn't worked for SEO for
the last bunch of years.
That certainly is an interestinganalogy. I've never heard of AI
(06:11):
being compared that way before,like the one that I always hear
is you treat it like an internor you treat it like a co-pilot.
But there's, there's definitelysomething to be said about
treating it like a brain?
Yeah, I mean, I think treatingit like an intern is useful when
you're using AI to get stuffdone, you know, you're building
workflows, you're askingquestions, you're even if you're
(06:34):
asking it to, like, work oncontent, whatever, and but we're
talking about when, when kind ofuse cases where someone is,
like, researching productoptions or the kinds of queries
that make sense to try to marketto. That's where I think this
other paradigm of AI asconsultant makes sense. Yeah.
And if you imagine, imaginethose human consultants, you
(06:56):
know your job, if, if you'relike a software company that
tends to sell through partners,your job is to get in the brain
of the partner, to get in thebrain of the consultant. So
that's podcasts and maybe booksand trade shows and conferences.
So what's the analogy for those?For AI, that's where we start to
(07:19):
get to the tactics of where youwant to show up online. You want
to show up in the places whereAI is forming its view of your
world. And what we're learningis that that's a lot of our own
media and platforms like Redditand Quora and Wikipedia and
these, these kind of communityspaces that demonstrate
(07:44):
credibility, particularly whenthat credibility is propped up
by an authority like a industry,media company or the wisdom of
the crowd.
Exactly. I'm going to move us onto the next question about key
pitfalls that you thinkmarketing teams need to avoid
(08:05):
when it comes to this topic, andwhat should they be doing
instead?
So the number one cited websitein LLM answers is Reddit, which
has created this whole newincentive to be more present on
Reddit as a marketer, and thatcomes, certainly comes with
(08:26):
pitfalls, because Reddit cares alot about the quality of its
platform. Moderators ofcommunities care a lot about the
quality of the conversationhappening in those communities.
So a pitfall definitely would beto jump on to Reddit, because
you hear that it gets cited alot, and post a bunch of self
(08:48):
promotional stuff, because youare risking getting shadow
banned by Reddit itself bydisobeying their rule of thumb
that only 10% of your postsshould be promotional, and you
might be disobeying moderatorpolicies about particular
communities, in which case yourstuff might just get deleted by
(09:09):
moderators.
What's your take on that? Like,because I've seen that a lot
actually, about Reddit. Like, isthat, is that a platform that
you would recommend B2Bcompanies be on? Or is it
something like you shouldapproach with caution?
Yes and yes.
Yes and yes?
Yeah. I mean, you just can't,you can't deny the impact of
(09:32):
being, by far, the number onesided website by LLMs. So
there's, there's the nativebenefit of Reddit where, like,
it's probably the case your B2Bsolution. It's probably the case
that people are talking aboutyour space on Reddit already
because, because people willtalk about everything on Reddit.
(09:53):
And so there's, there's, like, anative opportunity to be part of
the conversation on thatplatform. Reddit is so good at.
At segmenting people into areasof interest and also like the
cool thing about being a user onReddit is that you can have many
interests, and you get to go todifferent feeds to discuss those
things, which allows for thisdepth of conversation. It's
(10:15):
what's kind of annoying aboutposting on social media when you
have a niche interest, becauseonly a fraction of your
followers are going to beinterested in that. So that
makes it such a good place tohave focused in depth
conversations about anything,and regardless of what you're
selling, there's probably aconversation happening there
about maybe your actualsolution, certainly stuff around
(10:40):
it, stuff related to it. Sothere's this native benefit of
being part of the conversation,building your brand through
answering people's questions,giving advice, sharing, sharing
how you do things in nonpromotional ways, being helpful,
the fundamental principle we'vealways had a marketing which
would be helpful.
(11:01):
And then there's the secondarybenefit that some of that stuff
might get picked up by LLMs.Like, there might be some
question that someone asked inReddit. You post a really nice
answer that gets upvoted a lot.Someone asks a similar question
in ChatGPT or Google's AI mode,and your answer in that Reddit
(11:22):
thread gets cited, gets shown inthat response. So businesses
like you pretty much have to bethinking about it again if you
want a future proof, if you'retrying to plan for the long
term, you definitely you got tojump on Reddit, and you got to
see just how, what the scale ofthe opportunity is in your
(11:43):
space. Are people talking aboutthis? Are there really rich
communities of people talkingabout your industry? And then,
and then figure out how? Andyes, yes, that means proceeding
with caution and care and like,slowly, but it's becoming a non
negotiable.
Yeah, interesting. Interestingbecause I'm seeing a lot of
(12:05):
people talking about it, like,on platforms like LinkedIn, but
then there's also, like, if youGoogle it, like, there's,
there's a lot of articles outthere about, like, how you
should go about establishingthat digital presence on Reddit,
right? So that's, um, that'spretty interesting. Um, you
brought this up, like, a while,a while ago, and I wanted to
just maybe dig a little bitdeeper, do a bit more prodding,
(12:27):
but um, how, from yourexperience, how do you think GEO
has changed the game, and how,what should B2B marketers be
Paying attention to?
How has it changed the game?Well, first by sowing rampant
anxiety among digital marketerseverywhere, the anxiety that
(12:51):
comes from uncertainty, and sopresenting us all with the
opportunity to adapt and learnand face our fears. It's forcing
marketers to learn new skills.You could debate if this is a
good or a bad thing. It will be.It will be both good and bad. In
different cases, it can beeasier to quote, unquote rank in
(13:14):
ChatGPT than it was in Googlebefore, because traditionally,
you'd have to invest a fairamount in content on your
website that's high quality andtargeting the topics that people
are looking for. And you'd wantto invest in backlinks from
sites, ideally, that haveauthority and rank for similar
(13:37):
terms that yours is trying torank for, and all the technical
infrastructure of your site tomake sure you're not kind of
accidentally signaling to Googlenot to rank your site, and
especially because of thematurity of SEO, that's no
longer easy to game, so you haveto invest in doing it well. And
(13:58):
it's and it's a kind of agradual process to earn domain
authority.
In LLMs, there are these quickwins that can happen. Where,
like the example, in the Redditexample, you might find that
there's a vastly there'sactually just, like one really
relevant thread that alreadyexists about your product
(14:19):
category, and just dropping ananswer in that existing thread,
if there's an opportunity, ifthere's like a gap, or someone
hasn't actually answered thequestion that well, yet you
might be able to drop in therewith a really good answer. They
get some visibility, and thatthread gets cited. And there you
are. You do that one thing, andsuddenly you're getting excited
(14:42):
at the top for LLM questions onthis topic, right? And there's
other things like that where youcan do the there are like lean
tactics that can kind of get youvisibility with less investment.
Now. That will probably changeas the whole world shifts to
(15:03):
understanding these tactics,then we get more flooded, for
better and worse, with peopletrying to gain this system.
Right, right. So I know you'vementioned this some of us
already before, but like youknow from your experience, can
you provide examples of how B2Bcompanies can get AI to
recommend their businesses. Sospecifically, what steps should
(15:26):
they be taking? What are some ofthose key components that need
to be in that process?
I think this is actually one ofthe times that it's probably a
really good idea to work with anoutside partner, but to vet them
well for kind of being up todate on these AI tactics,
(15:46):
because it's going to be hard todo a fully flesh GEO program
internally, unless you have apretty large team and a lot of
capacity and a lot of like, justdesire and curiosity and
willingness to experiment. Sofirst off is the right people in
place. And then it's a matter oflike looking at the sites that
(16:09):
tend to get cited the most byLLMs, Reddit is at the top.
Close to the top are Wikipedia.Quora was on the list. LinkedIn
is on the list, thinking of B2Bspecifically. There's other
stuff that's not relevant to B2Bthat's high on the list of
citations, looking at those andthen doing some research about
(16:33):
if your audience spends time onthose platforms, because
ideally, you want to invest inplatforms that have native,
inherent benefits and thesecondary benefit of boosting
LLM visibility.
So like, let's find out if youraudience uses Reddit, if there's
conversations about your spaceon Reddit, on Quora, maybe
(16:53):
niche, niche industry forumsthat are similar, but more
focused. So validate where youraudience is spending time, and
then, and then be focused, youknow, it's probably Reddit or
Quora or LinkedIn or somethingthat's in a niche in your
industry. And then, and thenreally invest in being present,
(17:17):
in demonstrating thoughtleadership and being helpful,
and actually buildingrelationships. Think of it as a
relationship building project,where you're you're a part of
the conversation, and you're notgoing for silver bullets and for
one one thread to to rule allthreads, but you're just present
in the conversation, becausepeople will actually people in
your niche will get to know youthat way, and plus you're
(17:42):
increasing like the level ofbrand visibility and mentions on
the platform that's going toultimately drive LLM citations.
So picking probably one to focuson for those in that category of
communities and forums where aconversation is happening and
(18:04):
citations tend to come a secondpillar is going to be the earned
media side of things. So this isanother, another signal of brand
authority when either a verylarge media entity with
national, internationalcredibility, or a credible,
(18:25):
focused industry publicationtalks about your brand. You
know, it can be quoting your...we're talking like startups. It
might be just kind of tellingthe founder story and getting
quotes from the CEO in one ofthose publications, might be
sharing your point of view, theold digital PR playbook, which
(18:50):
is, and this is one of thoseareas that it's like SEO, people
were kind of aware of, butunless you were really doing
holistic SEO, you probablyweren't touching digital PR. So
it's kind of a new muscle, butit's increasingly valuable,
again, for its inherentbenefits. Of course, it's good
if people find you while readingan industry publication, and the
secondary benefit that itsignals authority to AI and will
(19:14):
increase the chances that youget listed.
And I think if I understand thisisn't this is one of the newer
areas for me that I'm stilltrying to wrap my head around.
But I think the actualmechanisms by which earned media
effect GEO include actualcitations, but also the general
impression that the LLM has ofyour brand's place in its
(19:39):
industry. So like, the goal withthe digital PR, I think, is not
just that the piece where yourCEO gets quoted gets cited in
LLM answers, but it's that themore your name is associated
with your industry, the morelikely that LLM brain is to
include you once. Someone asks aquestion like, What are the best
(20:02):
providers of x? And in thatcase, there might not be a
citation that actually showsthat breadcrumb trail when
you're looking at your LLManswer. It's just that the brain
has been trained by theassociations between your brand
and your industry and yourcompetitors, so you make it onto
a top 10 List?
(20:24):
Yeah, it's interesting that youbrought up that topic of digital
PR, because I've, I've heardthat from at least three other
experts in this particular area.Do you think that? And I'm just,
you know, I'm curious here,like, do you think that
previously, with traditionalSEO, marketers were not paying
(20:45):
as much attention to it? Butnow, with GEO, because it gets
because of these citations onChatGPT and so forth, it's given
a bit more limelight.
I don't know if it's gettingmore attention overall.
Definitely different people aregiving it attention.
Right, right.
So LLMs gave a new cohort ofpeople a reason to care about
(21:11):
digital PR. There's, of course,always been people. There's
always been the PR people arethe people whose worldview leans
on that as a viable channel,yeah, but it's like, yeah, I
think, I think that, like thetech people maybe are paying
more attention, and definitelySEO people are paying more
(21:31):
attention.
Well, probably is linked backto, I guess, if a SaaS company
is thinking about, like theirtarget audience, and in B2B,
that tends to be a buyingcommittee. And the buying
committee usually consists ofpeople in different role, with
different roles andresponsibilities, technical and
non technical. So there may besome association there.
(21:53):
You're saying, like differentpeople on the buying committee
with like different biases, orkind of pay attention to
different channels.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean,that's, that's my working
assumption, just based on whatyou've been saying, yeah, yeah,
yeah. Okay, fantastic. So we getto the point in the conversation
where we're talking aboutactionable tips. And Adrian,
you've given us a ton here, allright, but if you were to, and
(22:16):
this is almost like a recapquestion, right? Like, if you
were to, like, recap all thisadvice that you've been giving
us now, for someone that'slistening to this conversation
and you want them to walk awaywith three to five things that
they can take action on rightnow as it pertains to GEO, what
would those things be?
(22:36):
Yeah, for the marketing leader,right now is a super important
time to be learning from othersmart people. So LinkedIn is
probably the best place forthat. Maybe Reddit, maybe
podcasts, but find maybe findpeople who have smart things to
(23:01):
say, insightful things to sayabout GEO and look for in
picking kind of your sources.Look for those that cite data,
maybe their own, if they haveaccess to a lot of data, like if
they run an agency with lots ofclients. But even better, those
(23:22):
that are like looking at doingtheir own research on large
public data sets, or, you know,purchased large data sets, or
like Ahrefs publishes great dataand interesting studies. You
know, if someone is citing anAhrefs study about Gemini,
that's a good signal.
(23:46):
Look for intellectual honesty inwhat they're talking about. If
it's clear that everything theysay is about articulating a
worldview that benefits thething they're trying to sell
that's not that's, don'tprioritize that thought leader,
but find the one who's obviouslyreally interested in finding the
(24:09):
truth and has like, uncertainty,accepts uncertainty, and can be
wrong. And like, if you seethat, like they post something
about I said this six monthsago, and I'm changing my mind as
things have evolved. So yeah,find some people to learn from.
(24:31):
Since I mentioned Ahrefs, RyanLaw, who's their content
marketing leader, is a greatLinkedIn follow. He obviously
does have something to sell, butbecause their business is data,
he's great at content andthey're great at research, he's
a really good follow, so that'swhat allows you and then, and
then I said, like a roughlyfive, so you get a little bit
(24:52):
diversity of perspectives anddifferent people who are kind of
looking at different things thatwill help you. Stay on top of
things, because things arechanging. And like, I feel like
I said a lot in thisconversation that was presented
with a relative degree ofconfidence, and like a whole lot
(25:12):
of what I've just said could bewrong in in a few months, that's
why I want to stay in touch withpeople who are themselves really
staying abreast and remainingcurious about what actually
works.
Well, because it's to your pointthat you brought up earlier in
the conversation. This is acontinuously evolving ecosystem.
Yeah, and that's currently aquickly evolving one, and it's
(25:35):
like not a lot is not a lot ofsettled right now. There's,
there's, there's emergingcorrelation between what people
are doing and things we seehappening in LLMs. We don't know
anything about causation rightnow.
Exactly, exactly. Okay. Movingon to the next question, like in
(25:56):
terms of metrics, because youkind of can't talk about things
like SEO and GEO, if we don'ttalk about metrics, right? So
what are like? Maybe three tofive key metrics that you think
B2B marketers should be payingattention to.
B2B metrics, marketers workingon GEO, it's definitely a less
(26:16):
data rich space than SEO,because we don't know the volume
of queries prompts being done inchat bots, so we can only make
guesses about what people howpeople would interact with a
chat bot. Or you could do realcustom research and ask people,
(26:39):
What are you putting intoChatGPT when you're researching
x. So you can have real dataabout what people are doing, but
you don't know how much, the waywe know monthly search volumes
for Google.
So one of the things you canmeasure is referral traffic, and
I do find that super compelling.How much traffic is coming to
(27:03):
your website from ChatGPT,Perplexity, etc, but we don't
want to think about that trafficthe same way we thought about
referral traffic in the past,because coming, because it's
coming at the end of what mighthave been quite a long
interaction with the chat bot,and so one of the theories right
(27:28):
now, where there's some emergingresearch about this, is that
referral traffic from AI chatbots is higher Quality and
higher converting because theyhave just that user has just
learned a whole lot about youand your competitors, probably
in their AI interaction, andthey have all this context, and
(27:50):
they learn some thingsspecifically about what you
offer. And they decided thatthat you, what you're doing is
well enough, relevant enough towhat they need to click on a
citation which, let's be honest,is not presented as the goal of
the chat bot the way Googlewants. Its whole purpose was
directing you to one of 10 bluelinks.
The AI chat bot. I mean, it's aplatform like social media that
(28:16):
whose main incentive is that youuse it more so that you get more
value out of it, and they caneither charge more for it in the
future or add in an ad platformthat benefits from your eyeballs
so track traffic to your site.Think about it differently.
Compare the conversion, comparethe engagement and conversion
(28:39):
for a cohort of users that comefrom LLMs versus other sources.
See if you can validate thisassumption that it's higher
value. Traditional rankings areuseful. The correlation is
positive, but definitely not oneto one between ranking well on
(29:02):
Google and showing up in an LLManswer. So it's like you still
want to rank in Google. I mean,Google is still, by far, a much
larger discovery platform thanall the other AI is combined. So
work on ranking in Google andthen use that user ranking as
one of the inputs to yourassessment of how well you're
(29:25):
doing with GEO.
For the like digital, PR ormedia side of things. I'm newer
to that world. I don't reallyknow the variety KPIs (Key
Performance Indicators) forReddit. We're, I mean, we're
paying attention right now, inthe early days, to the karma of
the profiles that are engaging,because you need history on
(29:47):
Reddit to be allowed to engage.So user user karma, part of the
Reddit game now is having an ownsubreddit. AKA community that's
like in your niche, or maybetied to your brand. And so
membership and engagement in acommunity, if you're a moderator
(30:09):
of one, that's a decent metric.Overall though, I have to say
where you've probably heard theterm zero click marketing. We
are moving away from theparadigm where everything is
measurable and like let's keepmeasuring the stuff that's
(30:31):
helpful to measure, while notletting that form our entire
picture of what a marketingstrategy looks like, or what
success looks like.
Absolutely, yeah. Let's not letthat be the deterrent or the
impediment to move forward,right?
Yeah, yeah.
Fantastic, fantastic. Okay, twomore questions. I'll let you go.
(30:54):
So what is the status quo inyour area of expertise? So in
this case, GEO, that youpassionately disagree with, and
why?
I had trouble with thisquestion.
I'm sure you did.
I think I'm a little bit jealousof people who are really
contrarian, and I still knowthat I am. The best thing I came
(31:18):
up with, well, I kind of alreadyhave talked about, which is just
don't think about GEO the wayyou're thinking about SEO.
Right.
Even though I come from the SEOworld, I come relatively
recently from the SEO world.I've been focused on SEO for
three years. So you know, like Iwas making the decision to niche
my business from digitalmarketing generally down to SEO
(31:40):
exactly as ChatGPT launchedalmost three years ago.
Okay, well.
So it's like, I'm coming intoGEO from SEO kind of but I don't
have the all of the inertia ofpeople who have been in SEO for
20 years. And yet, somethingyou'll really often hear in SEO
circles is people basicallysaying it's the same GEO is just
the same as SEO. And this getsat what I said right at the
(32:03):
start of the call, which is,many of the tactics are the
same, but the paradigm istotally different. So it's like,
keep thinking the same way atyour own peril. GEO is not SEO.
Yep, yep, not exactly, exactly.Adrian, this has been a great
conversation, especially becausethis is all new territory, not
(32:25):
just for you know, you're theexpert in this area. It's like
for all of us, right?
So sort of.
This is something, this issomething that we all need to,
like, continuously learn about,because it's, it's just gonna
keep, keep growing from here, atleast from what you've been
saying, right? So, thanks againfor coming on the show, for
sharing your expertise with theaudience. Quick introduction to
(32:46):
yourself and how folks out therecan get in touch with you.
I'm Adrian Dahlin, Founder ofSearch To Sale, a full service
done for you. SEO and GEO agencyfocused on B2B. I'm based in
Seattle. I love fitness in theoutdoors and music. Any of your
listeners in Seattle I wouldlove to connect with. I'm trying
(33:10):
to network more locally, and I'mactually starting a community
for small business people inSeattle, so a little niche call
out there. You can find me onLinkedIn. Adrian Dahlin, you can
find me on Reddit and AdrianDahlin.
(33:31):
Yeah, it'd be kind of weird if,like you talked about Reddit
this whole time, and then you'renot actually on there.
Yeah, I am on there, but I'veonly been using it regularly as
of recently.
Fair enough. Okay, fantastic,fantastic. All right, so once
again, Adrian, thanks for comingon the show. Take care, stay
safe and talk to you soon.
Thank you very much for theopportunity.
(33:52):
All right. Bye for now.
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