Break Free from People-Pleasing and Become Your Most Authentic Self w/ Meenu

#175: The constant urge to say "yes" when you want to scream "no" might be more harmful than you realize. In this raw, transformative conversation about people-pleasing, we uncover how this seemingly innocent trait actually represents a profound disconnection from your authentic self.

When 69% of adults regularly put others' needs before their own even when it hurts them, we're not talking about kindness—we're talking about a pattern of self-abandonment that deserves our attention. Meenu shares her personal journey from chronic people-pleaser to boundary-setting advocate, revealing the painful reality that "people-pleasing cost me my whole life" and how she finally broke free at age 30.

We explore why women are twice as likely as men to struggle with saying no, how cultural expectations shape our tendency to people-please, and the surprising truth that your people-pleasing might actually be a form of manipulation. Rather than making connections stronger, this pattern often leads to resentment and disconnection from your true self.

The most powerful revelation? The temporary discomfort of setting boundaries is nothing compared to the freedom waiting on the other side. Through practical techniques like the "20-second pause" before responding and gradual boundary-setting approaches, you'll discover how to honor your needs without sacrificing relationships. Whether your people-pleasing stems from childhood experiences, fear of abandonment, or simply habit, this episode provides compassionate guidance for reclaiming your authentic voice.

Listen now to start the journey from self-abandonment to self-respect. Your future self—the one who can say "no" without guilt and "yes" with genuine enthusiasm—is waiting.

You can now send us a text to ask a question or review the show. We would love to hear from you!

Follow me on social: https://www.instagram.com/babbles_nonsense/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is up everyone?
Welcome back to another episodeof the Babbles Nonsense Podcast
, where we have me and you backtoday, where we unpack the real,
the raw and the oftenoverlooked parts of life.
In today's episode, we'rediving deep into the topic that
hits home for so many of us andthat is people-pleasing that
constant urge to say yes, toavoid conflict and prioritize
everyone else's needs over ourown, whether it's at work, in

(00:23):
relationships or even withfamily.
The pattern can feel impossibleto break, but here's the truth.
Being, quote unquote, niceshouldn't mean sacrificing your
peace.
Like I said earlier, mean youis back today and we all know
that she specializes in energyhealing and life coaching.
She has been helping women andmen break free from those
approval seeking and steppinginto their confident, boundary

(00:44):
living lives.
We're going to talk about whypeople pleasing starts, how it
affects your mental andemotional health and, most
importantly, how to stop.
If you've ever felt guilty forsaying no or struggle with
setting limits without feelinglike the bad guy, this episode
is definitely for you.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
So All right guys.

(01:30):
Welcome back to another episodewith Meenu and Jonna and,
obviously, Babbel's Nonsense.
So super excited to do thisbecause I think it's been a
while.
It has been a long while.
It's been a long while Ourschedules are not lining up.
She's busy with things, I'mbusy with things.
It's like when I'm free she'snot.
You all know how it works.
So we are here to talk aboutsomething pretty important today
.
I have touched on this in otherpodcast episodes, but I haven't

(01:50):
gone in depth like this, so I'mreally excited to talk about it
.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yes, we are going to talk about people pleasing and
boundary setting.
Today Someone reached out andjust asked if me and me and you
could do this.
They said they wanted to knowour thoughts.
So we were like, oh yeah,that's actually a really good
topic.
We have touched on it, like inother, when it comes to
relationships and how peoplepleasing comes out in
relationships and stuff likethat.
But we just wanted to do awhole segment on people pleasing
, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Very excited.
So what is people pleasing?
I mean like, instead of goinglike in a definitive Google way,
like people pleasing isbasically multiple definitions
and one of them is like selfabandonment to make sure you're
included in a group or includedin somebody else's reality Right
, and we do it for many reasons.
We do it to influence people,we do it for survival.

(02:39):
Honestly, it's sad because alot of people do do it for
survival, but they don'tunderstand how it comes across
and they don't understand howmuch damage it does to their own
soul and spirit than they arepeople pleasing.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
And would you say it's more like an unconscious,
like a subconscious thing, likepeople aren't consciously aware
of their people pleasing habitsall the time.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
I would say, I would say yes and no, like I would say
most of the time that they'renot aware of it because, again,
it's like an auto program andusually that typically starts in
childhood or teenage.
But sometimes people know, likesome of my clients, like when
they come and tell me they'revery conscious, they're like I
know I'm people pleasing and Iwant to stop.

(03:21):
People pleasing, whether it'stheir partner, whether it's
their parents, they activelylike, want to stop, and some,
whether it's their partner,whether it's their parents, they
actively like, want to stop.
And some people do it very like, subliminally, like they don't
know that they're doing itconstantly.
So it's kind of I mean, it'skind of sad if you think about
it.
Yeah, yeah, I would say too Imean because I don't know if
you've ever been a peoplepleaser but 100% former people

(03:41):
pleaser, for I think until likefour years ago, I, I, I in
another life, I fully was apeople pleaser.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Cause I was going to look up real quick statistics on
people pleasing.
I should have probably donethat before we started recording
, but then it just hit me whenyou started talking about like
how many people probably do it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, I used to be a people pleaser all my life and,
uh, really interesting.
Dad, if you're listening tothis, I'm sorry.
I know you're different now,but you know, when he raised me,
like when I was little, like hewould always say the biggest
asset is to be liked by everyoneand I was like, huh, okay, so I

(04:20):
just need to be liked byeveryone.
So that started like anunconscious pattern all the way
in my teenagers, choosingterrible partners, being in
shitty relationships.
You know negative situationsall the way until my like I only
stopped when I was 30, which isreally sad.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, I was about to say that makes a lot of sense
because I don't know if anyoneever told me when I was a child
to like, you know, to be likedby everyone.
But you see it, you see it, yousee it a lot Like.
It's almost like a loop thatyou don't even realize you're
seeing it when it comes to likecelebrities, magazines, movies,
like Disney channel.
You know, just like how peopleare always trying to make

(04:58):
everything better and right, andso I guess it is, like you said
, a yes and a no.
Some of it is subconscious andthen some of it is it's
conscious, you're consciouslyaware of it, but it's more of
the you have to tap in, you haveto almost be like okay, I am
aware that this is peoplepleasing, right right?

Speaker 2 (05:15):
oh, absolutely.
And you know, I always like tolike go back to the why and I
like to go back to the root.
So it's like, even if we talkabout evolution, if you think
about it like we're all a partof a tribe, right?
So like if we stood out andsaid I disagree with you to a
member of the tribe, then youare kicked out of the tribe,
which means you actually die.
Yes, even though we've evolvedand we're not in a tribe and we

(05:37):
don't live in the jungle and allthose things, the brain is
still wired to be included.
The brain is wired forcompanionship, for connection.
So, like when you're peoplepleasing, that's what you're
trying to achieve subconsciously, but the problem is you're
abandoning yourself completely.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
And that's when you would say you're kind of giving
your power away and in a sense,you're giving your power away
the entire time.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
And the worst part is like not only are you giving
your power away when the otherperson doesn't recognize that
you people pleased or yousacrificed or compromised on
your values, you also getresentful.
Yes, yes, I would say 100%.
I know you're laughing becauseyou've been through that.
I've been through that.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
I'm laughing because, like things, certain scenarios
come to my mind.
When you say stuff, I'm like,oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
, that makes sense.
But I pulled up some statisticsso it says the prevalence of
people pleasing traits 69% ofadults say they often put other
people's needs before their own,even when it negatively impacts
them.
And that's from a stat in 2022.
That's a lot 69% is a lot.

(06:44):
I don't know that I've ever met.
Well, I've probably met a fewpeople.
They really don't, they trulydon't care what other people
think.
And like it's almost very likeadmirable, and like you kind of
strive for that, and it's almostlike how do you do that?
Like how do you just not care?
Is it truly that you don't care?

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Or is it a front that you're putting on?
I think it's actually.
I think they've all been peoplepleasers, like right now I'm at
a point that I don't care, butI have been a people pleaser for
most of my life and I care toomuch.
And now what happened is thependulum just switched to the
other side.
I think I'm done.
And then the worst part is like,after I was done, I started
feeling so much better, like themomentary discomfort would like

(07:28):
still kick in, like like it wasso bad, you guys, like it was
like if I disagreed I would haveknots in my stomach.
It was like that bad.
And then so I had to sit withthe ache and I had to sit with
the knot, and I had to regulatemyself over and over again, and
then I had to, you know, keeptelling myself well, guess
what'm not dead just because Istood up to myself, guess what,
I'm not isolated just because Istood up to myself.

(07:49):
Like I had to like rewire mybrain to feel safety and
standing up for the truth.
So it's not like overnight.
Oh, I decided and I'm gonnastop.
No, no, no, you're.
You're gonna have like somatic,like feelings.
You know you're going to feelit in your body.
You're going to feeluncomfortable, but then you get
comfortable with theuncomfortable and then you you

(08:10):
realize how amazing the freedomfeels.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
And then you choose the freedom know me that, just
think they know me.
They would be like oh, you'renot a people pleaser.
Like you, you say and dowhatever you want.
But really they don't know themental turmoil because a lot of
people like who accept I feellike accept or don't mind

(08:34):
confrontation.
People think that those peopleare not people pleasers, because
a lot of people pleasers do notlike confrontation.
So they will be like oh, yeah,yeah, whatever you say, you know
when really they're wanting tosay no or whatnot.
And I don't mind standing upfor myself in my professional
life, which me and you havetalked about multiple times on
this podcast but in my personallife it's really hard for me to

(08:57):
tell someone no.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, and that's also fear of abandonment.
Yes, exactly where it comesfrom.
It's like if you guys arelistening to this and you're
like, oh yeah, I can't say no,like you have fear of
abandonment in some way oranother.
It's in your body and the moreyou start working on the fear of
abandonment and releasing thatfear of abandonment, you're
going to be like Okay, I don'tthink I'm going to abandon
myself and that's good enough,because what you're doing when

(09:21):
you're people pleasing is you'reabandoning yourself so that you
don't have to be abandoned bysomeone else.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Would you say that the fear of abandonment is truly
FOMO, when people say, oh, Idon't want to have FOMO, fear of
missing out.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yes, yes and no, because sometimes for certain
people it's really like it's abig deal right.
It's like fear of abandonment.
Yeah, for some people it's FOMO, but really like it's a big
deal right, it's like fear ofabandonment.
Yeah, for some people it's FOMO, but for other people it
actually goes really deep, likethey have been neglected by a
parent because they didn'tpeople please.
They, you know they may havebeen left in a relationship
because they didn't please, soit's like very deep for them.

(09:57):
It's not just like FOMO forthem, like for me.
I'll tell you like, until I was30, like it was FOMO for me,
like I have, you know, some ofmy girlfriends.
They used to like go out, youknow, to the clubs, and they
love to go dancing, which isamazing, like you know, and I
used to like want to go becauseI didn't want to say no, because

(10:17):
if I said no, it would Adisappoint them and B I had FOMO
.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Right, Because the next day when they were, when
maybe y'all went to brunchtogether and they were talking
about how much fun they had lastnight, you're like well, damn,
I should have went.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Exactly.
But then later I realized thatthe FOMO is like not worth it,
because my body just felt awful.
With alcohol in my system.
I just didn't feel good thenext day.
I just felt like shit.
And I'm like first of all Ididn't even want to go and I
went, and then this is thepunishment for like not

(10:48):
listening to my own intuitionand my own needs.
So eventually I just likestopped going right and and also
like told them I'm not going totake it personally if you guys
stop inviting me, because youknow this is just not my scene.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, it's a combination ofFOMO, but it also is for some
people.
It's like really deep, you knowokay, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Now I know we're talking about people pleasing,
but there's also this othersaying that people say, like the
nice guy syndrome, is peoplepleasing the same as nice guy
syndrome, or how would youdifferentiate the two?

Speaker 2 (11:19):
it's very similar like nice guy syndromes.
It's so funny you say nice guysyndrome, like I actually just
was talking to a client lastweek and I told him he has nice
guy syndrome and I told him toread this book called no more mr
nice guy, by the way, if you'rethat's on my notes we're
laughing, guys in the video,like we're like dying laughing

(11:41):
anyway.
Yeah, so that book, guys, islike amazing, like it's amazing.
Like some of my male friendshave read it and they vouch so
much for it.
It is like one secret sauce forlike breaking people pleasing.
It's really good and it I knowit says no more, mr Nice Guy.
But like people read it withtheir girlfriends, people read

(12:02):
it with their wives, so like,yeah, you can like give it a
shot, even if you're a woman.
You can like give it a shot,even if you're a woman.
Like you can, I'll be honestwith you.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
I don't know that I've ever met a man Really that
has quote unquote nice guys.
Well, maybe one of my bestfriends from college did because
he was the nicest guy and hedid have a hard time saying no
to people because he was just sonice.
But, like, as far as like men,I've dated no.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
I'm going to be really honest, I think it's a
little bit more influenced withculture because, like I see
people here like you know not alot of them it's like when you
compare it to like I mean, I'mIndian.
So it's like when you compareit with, like Indian men you
know most of the Indian men arelike you know, many of them, I
will say, are like peoplepleasers.

(12:43):
Oh, really, Women and men, yeah, yeah, Interesting Really deep.
Because it's like you're veryattached to your parents so
you're always thought to likeobey your parents, listen to
your parents, make sure youdon't disrespect them.
That kind of like goes too much.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, because you don't want to upset them like by
anything that you do.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
So it's like automatically, it's like, oh
yeah, I have to like, pleasethem, and then that kind of like
leaks to other relationships,that leaks outside.
So it's probably very common inlike Mexican culture, because
I've lived in Mexico so I knowthat it's common in Indian
culture.
It's less common with Americanmen because we disrespect our
parents but it's very commonwith American women that I have
noticed, you know.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, Now that you like when you say that, like the
statistics that I looked,noticed you know.
Yeah, Now that you like whenyou say that, like the
statistics that I looked up, itdoes.
Did say that there's a genderdifference when it comes to
people pleasing.
It says that women are twice aslikely as men to say they
struggle with saying no at workor in relationships, and the
statistics from 2020 frompsychology today said 75% of
women said they feel guilty whenprioritizing their needs over

(13:44):
others 75%.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
That's a lot.
And you know, I think it's sadbecause again it goes back to
programming and culture.
As women, we are programmedfrom a really young age to be a
nurturer, to be a caretaker, tohold space for everyone, to deal
with shit Like you know, likebe sensitive, put yourself on
the back burner.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, yeah, be sensitive Like you put yourself
on the back burner, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
So the problem with like continuously and always
being of service is that you'renot of service to yourself.
Right, you're of service to theworld, but you're not of
service to yourself.
Nobody teaches you that, whichis what they should be teaching
how to be of service to yourself, how to fill your cup first
before, like giving fromoverflow.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
And I don't know how your culture does, but like I've
noticed this with a lot of myfriends that have children, like
their whole identity becomes amother and it's more, it's, and
it's a lot of I feel like it's alot of societal pressure, like
that's how we're taught, likethat's when you grow up, like
once you're a mother, you knowyour kids come first.
You know when, really, when youtalk to psychologists and
therapists and life coaches,they say that you're actually
supposed to put your marriagefirst, yes, children second,

(14:48):
because that's why a lot ofmarriages end in divorce,
because and I'm not saying all,I'm just saying and I'm not
saying this is just for myfriends, this is just what I've
been taught or read about.
You know, when I, when I lookthings up, that a lot of women
will put their children firstand they act like they no longer
have a husband.
Women will put their childrenfirst and they act like they no
longer have a husband, and thathusband then becomes like well
then, and then that's when thegrow growing apart kind of takes

(15:09):
place and happens.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yes, and also this is so interesting you brought up
because it's like then you alsoput your children first.
It's enormous pressure on thechildren.
Let's not even like ignore that, right, it's enormous pressure.
And then you know, guess what?
In a few years, your kids aregonna like graduate and leave.
And then you're gonna be like,damn, I did all these things and
you know my whole Emma exactly.

(15:33):
Then they have an identitycrisis, like one of my friends
told me this, which is like Ithink it's like bad shit If
you're listening to this, I'msorry, but using it for a good
example here which is she waslike I'm just going to like
wherever my kids go for collegeyou know if they go to
university they're moving acrosscountry or like states I'm

(15:55):
going to go with them oh, andI'm just gonna uproot her whole
life.
Yeah, I was like wait a minute.
You mean like you're gonna staywith them.
And then she was like no, no,I'll find my own place, like
they can have their own freedom,but I would like like to do
that.
And then she laughed about it.
So I think it's a joke.
I was like that's peoplepleasing to another level.

(16:16):
That's like crazy, and I'veseen parents do that.
They people please their kids.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Well, I was about to just say like it's funny, that
funny that you say you know it'sa whole nother level, because
it's kind of a full circle ifyou think about it.
So if a mother which, again,we're brought up and taught by
not only our parents but oursociety as women to be nurturers
, to be a mom, to give all ofyourself to everyone but
yourself, like, like and we usekids as an example because it's

(16:43):
the easiest to see like, ifyou're a mom, like, okay, put
all your money into yourchildren, don't go out with your
girls, don't go get your nailsdone, don't get a massage done,
don't get your hair done becauseyou need to take care of your
children, when in reality weknow, like, from a psychological
perspective, you have to takecare of yourself and fill your
cup before you can fill anyone,children included.
And just like they say, like onan airplane, you have to put

(17:03):
your oxygen mask on first beforeyou can fill anyone, children
included.
And just like they say, like onan airplane, you have to put
your oxygen mask on first beforeyou can put anyone else's on,
because if you put it on yourchild and this child and that
person and that person, thenyou're dead.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Absolutely, that is so true, and I think we need to
stop like glorifying thatbehavior where it's like, oh my
God, she's just doing so muchfor her husband, she's just
doing so much for her kid, likeis that actually of service
later?
Like, you know, what is thewhat?
What message are you reallylike sending that person?

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Like you said, like if this all starts in our
childhood from what we're seeingand it's deep rooted, then then
maybe that's where it is.
You know that's where it'sbeginning.
It's like did the chicken comebefore the egg or the egg before
the chicken?
No one really knows, right,because it's a full circle.
So did people pleasing comefrom?
Seeing your mom and your dad,like your parents give all to
you and not to themselves.
So then you feel like you haveto please them because they

(17:53):
sacrifice so much for you.
So then it's like then you growup, people pleasing, and then
you're doing it as a, as anadult, then you're doing it with
your children, but but it'slike what came first?
The people pleasing?

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Exactly, and sometimes it's also like kids.
You know, when children grow up, they don't listen to what you
say.
They mirror your behavior.
So it's like they watch whatyou do.
They see how you operate inlife and the way you make
decisions.
So if you're a parent and youknow you're people pleasing,
let's say, not your children,but other people, people like
you're doing it with your spouse, you're doing it with your

(18:26):
sister, you're doing it withsomeone else, and they're
actively watching it.
They're going to learn thatthat is a form of survival.
They're going to learn thatthat is okay.
Oh yeah, my mom did it all herlife.
My dad did it.
Oh yeah, sure, I'm going to dothe same thing too.
Maybe I need to do this to tobe included and to be alive.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Because if you can't trust your parents, who can you
trust?

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah, because you're like worshiping.
They're worshiping the ground.
You walk on like you are theirabsolute role model.
So whatever they do, they'regoing to mirror that.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
So would you say that people pleasing majority of the
time comes from childhood, likeall the time comes from
childhood, or do you think it'sa learned behavior later in life
?
Or what have you seen in yourpractice?

Speaker 2 (19:06):
So interesting because in my practice I've seen
both Like.
I've seen people pleasing comefrom childhood.
I've also seen people pleasingstart in relationships, which is
so weird for some people in age.
It's just like they do itbecause they want to belong in
certain school groups, becausethere are bullies and you know
how there are like these gangsand like oh, we're the cool

(19:26):
girls you can't sit with us.
So, like, pleasing to like be apart of that, it starts there
and then it extends to oh yeah,I'm going to do it with my
boyfriend so that he doesn'tbreak up with me because I'm
dating this cool guy and I don'twant him to break.
So I'm going to please my wayinto it, you know.
So some actually start inrelationships Like I have this
particular it and she had anamazing childhood, like great

(19:46):
parents.
Her parents taught her likeamazing boundaries, like say no,
stand up for yourself.
All the whole thing right, theperfect lessons.
But then her people pleasingstarted.
Then she started dating.
That makes sense.
It can start anywhere.
It can start anywhere Like forme, I know I said my dad, you
know, like had a conversationwith me about it.

(20:07):
But for me I would say, even ifI excluded my dad.
It is truly cultural.
Yeah, even if my dad had saidnothing, it is fully cultural.
So you would have done it, nomatter what I would have done it
no matter what, like all myfriends that are also like
Indian women, are either stillpeople pleasing or recovering
people pleasers.
You know there are a few peoplethat have very few people that

(20:30):
haven't recovered, but likethey're still in that spectrum.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Which makes sense and not not to like.
I know, like, going back to thedating reference, that makes a
lot of sense when you say thatand not, I guess the example
that comes to my mind to make itlike I always try to, my brain
works in a way like I have tocome up with an example to
attach onto it, to understand it.
And the first thing when yousaid that, I was like, oh, that
makes a lot of sense, especiallyin abusive relationships,
because, let's say it's aphysically abusive relationship.
You're going to do anything youcan to not be hit right.

(21:00):
You're going to please, you'regoing to, you're going to walk
on eggshells, you're going to doanything you can to please that
person so that you're notphysically abused.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
No, absolutely Like for me, like it was more like
emotional abuse.
Yeah, so, because of emotionalabuse and gaslighting, I was
people pleasing because I didn'twant to be gaslit, I didn't
want to be said that oh, I'mcrazy or you know for all these
things.
So I used to like change mynarrative like oh my God.
And the worst part is like thesecond.

(21:27):
After I do it, I would feellike this, like ick, and, and
then it would be too late.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
I would be like, oh my god it's killing me, because
I'm thinking about all thepeople I've dated and I'm like,
oh my god, I've been a peoplepleaser.
I mean, probably the peopleI've dated have been like no,
you haven't, because I, I willeventually stand up for myself.
And it's so crazy becausethat's when the gaslighting is
the worst, because you've,you've, please, please, please,
please, please.
And then all of a sudden,you're like you know what?

(21:52):
I'm not gonna do anymore.
I'm gonna start standing up formyself.
And the first thing they say toyou is you're not acting like
yourself.
Who do you think you're tryingto be?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Exactly and you know, I was like who's right and
who's wrong in that and honestlyit's not about right and wrong.
It's like when you get peopleused to a certain thing, they're
attaching your identity towhatever you got them used to,
like if you've been a peoplepleaser and that's been like
your whole identity, like for 20years or 10 years, and then

(22:22):
suddenly you start like havingopinions, suddenly you start
having you know like you startrebelling and you start like
talking back.
Suddenly you start having youknow like you start rebelling
and you start like talking back.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
It is going to be inconvenient for everyone.
And I have a friend thatactually recently started doing
that to her, like with herhusband, and instead of him
acknowledging that she has herown identity and her own thought
process, he blames me and saysit's because you're hanging out

(22:52):
with her that you're feelingthis way.
And she's like no, I'm feelingthis way because I finally see
the issues and I'm trying tocommunicate those issues to you
and you're sitting heregaslighting me and he's still,
even after she says that to hisface, he'll be like no, it's not
, it's because you're hangingout with her.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Oh, that's so funny.
I get blamed all the time.
I just stopped thinkingpersonally.
I get blamed all the time byhusbands, by partners, like oh,
yeah, you're going and seeingMeenu, like, you're talking to
Meenu, like yeah, of course,like now you're able to say this
, but no, no, no, like we arejust showing what's already
there, guys, like we are not.
We can't sit here and changesomeone's identity.
We can't sit here and changesomeone's personality.

(23:25):
That shit doesn't happen likeovernight.
We are expressing what thatperson is struggling to express
and they are seeing a form ofpersonal expression through us
and it's resonating with them.
So they're finally like takingit into their own lives and
implementing it.
Like that's what happened.
We can't, we're not here tochange anyone, right?

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Right, and I'm glad you said that, because initially
I took it very personal and Iwas like, well, I mean I'm sorry
that I, you know, give youstrength and I am a good friend
to you, but I don't know, likeI'm sorry that you know he can't
see, I don't know what to say.
Say it out loud, it's so funny.
It is because it's like I'msorry, I'm a good friend and

(24:09):
telling you the truth, like, andyou know, speaking of that side
note, I don't think goodfriends are people who agree
with you 100% of the time.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Like Jonna and I argue all the time, all the time
We'll be, we'll literally be intext conversations and me and
you will be like we're justgoing to have to agree to
disagree, and I'm like, yeah, we, yeah, we are, because I'm not
changing my mind, you're notchanging yours, and that's what
it is.
And then that's the end of theconversation.
Yeah, there's no, I hate you.
You don't have my same opinions.
It's cool.
We realize we're not going toconvince each other to change

(24:37):
their mind, so it's just like wedon't have to talk about it
anymore you don't have to talkabout that particular thing.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
There are like million things to talk about.
You know, like, and you know I.
And that's where I think likeI'm really like, in a way, like
proud of you and me because,like we're not pleasing each
other.
Yeah, you know, we're notagreeing each other, agreeing
with each other, just because,oh yeah, I want to be liked by
her.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Like you know none of that that you know what, and
that's what the difference is isI have a safety in our
friendship to where I know I canshow up to be myself 100% of
the time, and I know that you'renot going to run away from this
friendship, because I don't doeverything you say, agree with
everything you do, and I thinkthat's kind of what it comes

(25:16):
down to is how safe do you feelin a relationship to be able to
show up as you?

Speaker 2 (25:22):
That is so so, so true.
Like we're going to talk about,like just a very quick detour
in this yes, we're going to comeback to people pleasing, but
we're also going to talk aboutreally quickly, if you don't
mind, like how to set a safespace, right, yeah, and the best
way, like if you're a friend,you're a father, you're a mother
, you're you know, any form likeof relationship that you have.

(25:42):
You're listening to this If youlove someone and you want to be
there for someone, be there forthem, just be there for them.
Don't inflict your opinions,don't inflict your ideologies.
Don't say if you don't do this,you know I'm gonna walk away.
Like that, that form of love islike very conditional.
You're saying you have to agreewith me, only if you agree with

(26:05):
me, then you belong in myfriendship, or you know you, we
belong together.
Like that's so conditional,that's very like constricted.
That's not a very expansive wayof living or thinking.
Right, how do you hold space andyou know it's so interesting
because me and my partner weretalking about it a few days ago
how to hold space is to trulygive the stage to someone.
And what does it mean to trulygive the stage to someone.

(26:27):
Let's say, if somebody has anissue, they want to come talk to
you.
You say, okay, the stage isyours, take the stage right.
So they talk to you.
They talk your ear off, theytell you all their concerns.
You are not interrupting, youare not inflicting your
judgments, you are notinflicting your opinions.
And then, after they're donetalking, be a good person and

(26:47):
ask do you want advice or do youjust want me to hold space?
Yep, if they say you know, Ijust wanted to vent, I just
wanted someone to listen to itand hold space, then say, okay,
I'm here for you, I love you andI'm here whenever you need and
that's the most likeunconditional form of you know,
reassuring safety, because we'retalking about safety here,

(27:13):
which is connected to peoplepleasing.
That's how you really holdspace.
And then if they say you knowI'm open for feedback, like I'm
open for advice or guidance,then yeah, go for it, give your
opinion, you know.
And but again, remember, you'renot you're, you're not giving
your opinion so that they agreewith you all the time.
Right, like your opinion,because they ask for your
opinion and they can alsodisagree, they can also go back
and think about it.
They don't have to agree withyou.
This is not an ego trip or apower trip.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
I agree 100 percent Everything you just said,
because like and I think it'salso good to know, like, which
friends that you can go toinvent to like there's friends
like, if I want someone to agreewith me, I'll go talk to them
because I know they're going toagree with everything I say.
Then there's friends that Iknow that I can go to if I need
to know, like true, real advicethat's not just going to sit

(27:55):
there and agree with me.
For example, if you're breakingup with someone and you know
you have those friends that youcan go to and they're going to
be like, screw him, he wasterrible.
And then you have the friendsthat you can go to, that go.
Can I be real honest with you?
You know, in this situation Isaw the things that you did here
that probably could ruin thatrelationship and maybe that's
something you want to look at,to go into into the next

(28:15):
relationship.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yes, absolutely, and I think that is a good friend.
I think a solid friend.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Well, that's the kind of friends I want, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, no, absolutely no-transcript.

(28:59):
People pleasing will startreducing because they feel like,
oh yeah, this is so safe, likeI can just be myself with this
person, I can always be there, Iknow she's always going to be
there, not abandoned me, and youknow, that's what happens,
that's the magic.
That's when the magic startshappening in relationships.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
I agree.
And now just kind of taking itback to people pleasing a little
bit, like we mentioned it alittle bit earlier on the
beginning of the episode wherewe talked about how, like you're
kind of abandoning yourself andit's kind of tapping into your
self-identity, how would youexplain to someone, like when
you've done people pleasing forso many years, how that is
tapping into their self-identityand then how it's like it can,

(29:38):
I guess, be a negative impactsometimes on your self-identity
and your self-worth, like how Iguess I'm asking how does people
pleasing connect with youridentity and how can you kind of
come out of that?
Yeah, how does people pleasingconnect with your identity and
how can you kind of come out ofthat?

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, so the people pleasing connects with your
identity in a way of like, oh,I'm just a person that is nice.
Right, it starts like that yeah, I'm just a nice person, I
don't like to disagree, I don'tlike to be the odd one out, like
I don't like conflict.
Exactly, I don't like conflict.
And also another thing thatI've heard Bennett like
translates to identities it'slike I just want to make

(30:12):
everyone comfortable.
That's a big.
I just want to make sureeveryone feels at home with me
and in my space and I just wantto make sure everyone is heard
and seen.
Sure, but at what expense?
Right, so that becomes thatidentity.
And now, how do you detach fromthat identity?
Is I think you have to look atyour life and ask yourself am I

(30:36):
happy with who I am?
Do I actually have my ownbeliefs?
Do I actually have my ownopinions, my own take on things,
and am I following that?
Am I actually living throughthat or am I?
Is it just like buriedunderneath somewhere and it's
not even like coming out?
So at the end of the day, Ithink it like comes down to how
am I?
How's my relationship withmyself?

(30:58):
How's my relationship with myfriends?
Am I being an honest person?
Right, can I be honest?
Am I being honest here?
Am I being honest outside?
And if that's like, uh, I don'tknow, not all the time then you
gotta like check it out and ask, like, how is that affecting
you further?
Right, like, are yousuppressing more, you know?

(31:19):
Are you hiding things like now?
Are you like faking it?
Are you faking the friendship?
Are you faking relationshipBecause you have fear of
abandonment?
So how is that impacting inother areas?
Right?
So I think what helps is to likepause and reflect and ask
yourself, maybe like once amonth, maybe once every few
months, ask yourself am I happywith myself?

(31:40):
Am I being true to myself?
Am I being true to myrelationships and friendships?
And if you say no, I'm notbeing true, I'm trying to fit in
, I'm trying to make sure theythink this of me.
They think that a lot of peoplethis is where it gets caught
Like I have heard of some peoplethey really care about how
they're being perceived, whichis also people pleasing.

(32:03):
Yeah, because why do you careabout how you're being perceived
Like?
Why is that that important?
Yeah, because why do you careabout how you're being perceived
Like?
Why is that that important?
Yeah, because what that tellsme is, you don't perceive
yourself in a correct manner.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
And I'm glad you said that, because, also, when
you're so self-obsessed with howyou look physically to other
people and I'm not saying thatwe shouldn't care to a certain
degree, because I think we allare going to care to a certain
degree but there is a level thatsome people like I have a
friend that takes it to theextreme.
She literally gets down onherself because she doesn't look

(32:37):
like me or look like someoneelse or look like this or look
like that, and I'm like you haveto stop doing that, because you
are your own person and peoplelove you for you, but it comes
across that you don't loveyourself it really does and it's
like, and you can actually tellwhen someone is being fake and

(32:58):
when I say fake I mean peoplepleasing, because people
pleasing is actually fake,because when you're trying to, I
know this is gonna, you know,kind of like sting if you're
doing it.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
But it's like if you're a people pleaser, you's
like if you're a people pleaser,you're a manipulator.
You're a manipulator becauseyou're not being yourself,
you're not being your authenticself.
So you're painting a picture tothe other person that you're
this like quote unquote likenice girl and nice guy and
making them believe in a versionof you that is probably not
even true to yourself.
That makes sense, you know.

(33:28):
So it's kind of yes, it's atrauma response.
I'm not denying the trauma onwhy you're a people pleaser when
it started, how you did it tonot be abandoned.
I'm not denying any of thoseexperiences you've had.
But it's also manipulation, iswhat I'm trying to say.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
Well, and you know that makes sense because, like I
know, manipulation has thisnegative connotation and it's
and we're not saying you'reintentionally manipulating
someone else.
You can subconsciously bemanipulating and not realizing
it.
Same as, for example, if youenter a relationship and you're
doing all these things that youtypically wouldn't do out of
people pleasing traits, forexample for a female, washing

(34:02):
the dishes for a guy you know,cleaning their house, playing
wifey, before y'all are in arelationship and you're doing
all these things to get them tolike you and you're trying to
please, even though you don'treally want to do it.
Yeah, that is a form ofmanipulation because you're
trying to do something to getthem to like a version of
yourself that you're not goingto be a hundred percent of the
time.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Exactly, exactly.
So another way to like I knowthis is this is gonna be a
little bit sidetracked butanother way to actually like,
dissolve.
It is like and I've starteddoing this, which is like
amazing, do I?
Am I doing this Because Ireally want to do it, or am I
doing this to fit in?
Like just that one inquiry,like just that one question,

(34:44):
like, before you say yes tosomebody, whether it's a trip,
whether it's a favor, whetherit's all loaning someone money,
like whatever it is, whetherit's your children, your sister,
your brother, like whoever itis asking that question, like,
like, am I doing it because itfeels good to me or am I doing
it so that they like me?
Because if you're doing it sothat they like you, then it's
not an integrity completely withwho you are.

(35:05):
Now, I am not denying thateverybody at some point wants to
be liked and wants to be seenand wants to be heard.
Like that's different.
But if it goes overboard andyou keep continually repeating
the same pattern to be liked, tobe liked then you're not in
integrity with yourself, youdon't.
So now it's time to do someself-exploration and find out
who.
Who am I Right I want?
What do I believe in?
Why do I feel so disconnectedwith myself?

(35:27):
Why do I feel other people arenot respecting me?
Duh Answer is you're notrespecting yourself because
you're people pleasing, soyou're not.
You're abandoning your needs.
So now what's happened iscoming back to energy for a
little second is you'reattracting similar experiences
because that's the energy you'reembodying.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Right, that makes sense and something you taught
me and something that you knowthe more I get into my faith,
the more I'm learning.
Like you're going to keepgetting the same thing put in in
your path until, like you know,like, oh, for example good
example I pray for patients alot and I need to quit.
My aunts told me to quitbecause I get a lot of things in

(36:04):
my life that force me to havepatience and I'm literally at my
wits end sometimes and I'm like, and I'm like remember, Donna,
you asked for this?
Yeah, that's actually.
You literally asked God and theuniverse to give you more
patience.
So they have to put things inyour life.
And for another example, I waspicking men that were

(36:25):
emotionally unavailable, becauseI was emotionally unavailable,
putting that energy out thereand I kept doing it over and
over.
But then the last guy I dated,I just had realized, like in two
months versus two years.
So I'm very proud of myself forthat to be like you know what.
You're a great guy.
This, just this, isn't justwhat I'm wanting.
So we're good, let's just moveon.

(36:46):
Because it was the same personin repeat fat pattern, because
it just kept, because it is thelesson that I had to learn and I
kept wanting to change it and Ikept saying why do I keep doing
this?
I need to change this, I needto change this.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Right, right, exactly so.
It's like again, guys, likecoming back to it, like when
you're a people pleaser, it's soeasy to get resentful with
other people.
It's so easy because you knowthat there are sacrifices going
on, like you're sacrificing yourown needs.
So you're thinking, oh my God,I'm doing all this, I'm giving
up my values and I'm giving upmy beliefs for you.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
You're not doing anything.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
You're not doing anything and you're not even
appreciating it and you're noteven acknowledging it.
Well, did that person ask youto give up your values and
beliefs, or did that person askyou to be yourself, like you
know again?
Like this is where, like,please be accountable for your
own stuff.
Like it's easy to like say, ohyeah, they're a narcissist and
they took advantage of me, andit's so easy to like point

(37:41):
fingers, but like, you played arole in this too.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yep, and that's, I think, the hardest thing for
people to do and I think, humansin general.
No one wants to look atthemselves or look in the mirror
, but I've had hardconversations with friends and
even to myself before, like whenwe've had sessions that it's
like what, like okay, forexample, the guys that I dated
and it just kept happening and Iwas upset and she was, and I
remember you being like okay,but at some point you have to

(38:06):
acknowledge that you allowedthat behavior for this long.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
So that's my role in it.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
I allowed it, I continue to to try to change
someone else to the version thatI wanted them to be, and that's
a form of manipulation andpeople pleasing, and that's the
role I played and that's calledaccountability.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Exactly.
I mean you're takingaccountability now but, like you
know, you got to start likelooking at that stuff, like as
soon as you start doing it, likeyou got to start getting
conscious, you got to startasking why am I making these
choices, why am I doing thisthing?
If you're feeling misaligned,don't wait for six months.
Ask why am I feeling misalignedright now with myself?
Like where am I feelingdetached Right?

(38:47):
Like those are really good,like questions, like inquiries
that you need to constantly askyourself.
So you don't fall into the trapLike for me.
I will tell you what happened.
Like it cost me my whole life.
People-pleasing cost me mywhole life.
People-pleasing cost me mywhole life.
So for me, I had no choice butto be like if I want to be
perceived differently, if I wantto perceive myself differently,

(39:09):
if I actually want to respectmyself, I need to stop doing it.
At one point it became arelationship with myself.
Nothing about anyone elsemattered, how I saw myself and I
was getting the ick and I'mlike I just don't want to.
I don't want to do that, right?
The truth is, guys, it's likepossible.

(39:29):
You just, you just have todecide, you just have to decide.
It's not that hard right decide.
You guys are thinking, oh, allmy life I've done this.
How can I not do this?
Uh, I snapped out of it when Ihad done it for 30 years.
I'm sure you can Like you knowthe past four years of not
people pleasing.
So if I can do it and I'm aliveand I'm thriving, you can do it
and you'll be alive too.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
I have two more questions about the people
pleasing and then I want to kindof transition into like how we
can heal from it.
So the two questions that Ihave for the people pleasing are
why do people put others needsabove their own?
I know we kind of touched onthat a little bit from like
abandonment and stuff like that,but I was going to see if you
had any like, if you knew anyother reasons why people would
put someone else's needs abovetheir own.

(40:12):
And a second part of that is isdo people do that?
Is it more a control thing, anapproval thing, out of fear, or
they just want to avoid, toavoid conflict?

Speaker 2 (40:23):
yeah.
So it's like all of the above,so okay.
Another reason why, like peopleput and I'm so sorry, like I'm
not trying to trigger anyoneanother reason why people put
somebody's needs above them allthe time like they don't, I mean
their needs above them, theirown selves is that they want to
be perceived as very selfless.
They want to be perceived as oh, I'm such a giver, I'm such a

(40:45):
good person.
They really care about thatperception.
They're very attached to thatidentity, so they want to
continually maintain that image.
Are they givers?
Are they good people?
Sure, but again, you have toask yourself how much am I doing
and at what cost am I doing?

Speaker 1 (41:06):
And no one's 100% of something all the time.
So why would you be 100% of apeople, pleaser, all the time?

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Exactly.
That's why I'm saying it's notauthentic.
There are some people that arenaturally, naturally givers.
You're a giver, I know I'm agiver, but naturally givers,
Automatically when somebody'sbringing up a situation, we want
to help them, we want to fix it.
Like we're fixers, we'reproblem solvers.
That's just.
You know how John is wired.
I'm wired Like I know that, butlike we're not going to do it

(41:34):
all the time.
Like you know, if we don't feelup to it, we're going to be
like uh no, I'm not, I don'thave the energy for that, I
don't have bandwidth for that,I'm sorry, Like I can't do it
right now.
Like you know, we're able to dothat and that's authentic
because that's that, that thatfeels good, because it's not
there all the time.
Like you said, when it'shappening all the time, it's out
of integrity.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
You want to know how.
I know that you're also not apeople pleaser anymore.
If you were, you would acceptso many clients all the time
because you in your mind wouldbe like I have to help every
single one of them, I want tohelp every single one of them,
but you don't do that.
You set a limit on how manypeople you see a month to make
the boundaries, to give yourselfspace, and that obviously

(42:15):
you're pleasing your customers.
But I'm just saying like if youwere like still in that people
pleasing mind before you healed,you'd probably be seeing 20 to
100 clients a day.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Easily.
I know therapists, I knowcoaches that do like seven a day
and I'm like, wait a minute,how are you doing that?
Like that's insane.
That's like an hour hour and ahalf per client and it's like
very heavy, like I don't seemore than like four a day.
I'm actually going to downsizeto like three a day because,
like of the amount of energy andtime that like goes on and the

(42:44):
prep and everything, it's likethree a day is like my sweet
spot.
But you're absolutely right,like it's like I used to burn
myself to the ground.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
And this is hard to say no.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
when you want to help somebody, so hard to say no.
And then it's so funny you saythis because, like recently, two
months ago, I was triggered bya client.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
So funny I'm saying, I just smiled really big.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
I was triggered by a client because she was like well
, what about the evening you can?
Can you take me on in theevening at like seven, because I
get done at like six?
Like why can't you take me onin the evening for an emergency
session?
Like every week I'm like wait,first of all, I don't work at
seven, I'm done at six.
So for me to take you on atseven and go till 8 8, 30, that

(43:29):
would like take away my wholeevening, right, and I'm not
trying to work like that much,you know.
And I I told her, you know,maybe we should, maybe you
should, look at other options,like other other availabilities,
other coaches, like that is nota time I'm able to do and and I
also said, I've also like madea you know, promise to myself
that I'm not going to get burntout and if I do that, I don't

(43:51):
think I can be a good coach foryou.
I don't think I can help you ina way that I can.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Because you're going to be resentful, because you're
going to be sitting in thatsession going.
I don't want to be here.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, but then she was like kind of like pushing it
right.
She was like, oh, why can't youlike you know, like she was she
?
And so this is again.
Guys, what I'm trying to say isgivers have to set limits,
because takers do not know howto.
Right, if you're a giver, stopgetting bitter, stop being
resentful, stop feeling like, oh, people should understand me,
naturally, no, me, naturally, no, no.

(44:22):
You have to set boundaries, andI think that's the next thing
that we want.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yeah yeah, so, transitioning into the healing
portion, I wanted to ask you ifyou feel like there's like an
order to it because, like, doyou feel like you should first
be aware that you're a peoplepleaser and try to heal from
wherever it's coming fromwhether that be childhood
relationships, wherever and thenthe other two portions of like
healing I guess in that fashionsis setting boundaries and then

(44:48):
also learning to prioritizeyourself.
Is that, do you think there'san order in that, or do you
think it all comes together?

Speaker 2 (44:54):
so I think awareness like for me I'm always going to
say awareness is number oneright so first you have to like
if you're listening to this andyou're like nodding and clapping
and you know, if you're apeople pleaser, congratulations,
because you have become aware,which is the first step in
healing, If you cannot healanything unless you're aware
that it's going on with you.
So if you're aware and you wantto change it, you're already.

(45:15):
You're already ahead of likemany people, Right,

(45:48):
no-transcript realized it andyou know it's actually kind of
liberating.
I actually feel more free and Irealized I was unconsciously
people pleasing you guys and youknow I don't want to do that
anymore because I just don'tthink it's fair to you, I don't
think it's fair to me and Istill think we can have all
these experiences Right.
So I started doing things likethat where I didn't give people

(46:13):
that shock of like suddenly,like changing and not
communicating, and they're likewhat's wrong?

Speaker 1 (46:19):
You're like no, let me explain.
I'm not just going to ghost youhere.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, so I am.
I'm a very good communicator,like.
So I, you know, communicate tomy close friends about like
transitions and changes thatlike happened in my life.
So for me that was like more ofa supportive environment where
it felt, okay, this is likegreat.
Like you know, I'm able tocommunicate and get this.
If they had said, no, we'drather you come with us, you
know I'm able to communicate andget this.
If they had said, no, we'drather you come with us, you

(46:45):
know no, we'd rather you join us.
Like, I don't know what you'retalking about, you're not a
people pleaser, you're wrong.
If they did something like that, I would immediately be like no
, I think you're used to thatversion of me, I think you're
comfortable with that version ofme, and I've done enough
self-reflection that I know thatI've been a people pleaser.
Thank you, but no, thank you,you know.

(47:06):
So, again, having thoseboundaries right.
And how does that come?
It doesn't come when you don'thave awareness.
Like, for example, if you don'tknow who you are, everybody
will tell you who you are.
Yes, they will.
So you've got to like the firststep in the process.
You've got to ask yourself whoam I?
How am I showing up inrelationships and friendships,

(47:27):
because once you owned it, thennobody can use it against you.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
That's right.
Yeah, and I'm firsthand, I willagree to that.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah.
So I would say like that's likethe transition, like did I miss
something?

Speaker 1 (47:38):
No, no, no.
So that makes sense.
And then, as far as like theboundaries, like, I know that's
how you do that, for like, yourexample is like you, you
communicate well and you expressyourself well instead of like
just ghosting someone.
What are some other ways peoplecan start establishing some
boundaries?
Maybe it's slowly, once they'veidentified that they're a
people pleaser and they'retrying to, then you know
obviously heal, why they're apeople pleaser, like whether

(48:00):
that be through coaching therapy, whatnot.
Then you know obviously heal,why there are people pleaser,
like whether that be throughcoaching therapy, whatnot.
Then how did they startestablishing those boundaries
Like?
Or would you give differentexamples of how someone could do
that?
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
So, like this is really interesting because, like
when I was working with one ofmy coaches like many years ago,
um, when and she was liketelling me just say no, just say
no.
And I'm going to tell you guysit's not that simple, right.
So there is like atransitionary process and what
that looked like for me and youcan take away from this is like
saying no and saying why I'msaying no.

(48:32):
That was helpful in thetransitionary phase.
You don't have to say why allthe time, but you're
transitioning from becoming apeople pleaser to like standing
on your own two feet and notabandoning your own needs.
So maybe like saying, hey, Ican make it today because I'm
like really exhausted and I, ifI don't sleep, I'm going to get

(48:52):
like bitter tomorrow.
I can't work tomorrow, like I'mjust.
I just need that, you know.
Just a little bit explainingagain, not explaining to people,
please explaining to make thetransition easier for you.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
And once you've gotten more comfortable, you're
saying that the next time youcould say hey, I just don't feel
like it tonight, Thank you.
Thank you for the invite.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Because, remember, your body's trying to achieve
safety.
So when your body's trying toachieve safety, it can go from
oh yeah, like I'm like peoplepleasing OK, I'm safe, I'm not
abandoned to like no, it can'tgo to like safe to unsafe right
away.
So you have to have atransition process so your body
can be like OK, you know whatI'm like, explain myself.

(49:33):
I'm stepping into safety bysaying no.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
That makes sense, and then after you've set the
boundaries and kind of gottenmore used to that which, again,
it's not going to happenovernight, it's going to take
time and everyone's differenthas a different timeline.
It may take you a week, it maytake you a year, it may take you
10 years.
Everyone's timeline isdifferent, so don't compare your
journey to someone else.
But then I think that a part ofthat healing is then

(49:58):
prioritizing yourself, likelearning to put yourself first
without feeling selfish, anddoing things that just kind of
make you feel better aboutyourself.
So would you have some examplesof how because I think that's
why people feel uncomfortabletransitioning from people
pleasing to not people pleasingbecause you start feeling
selfish or guilty internally.

(50:18):
So how do you startprioritizing your own needs and
then also help negate that guiltand selfish feeling?

Speaker 2 (50:26):
I think you have to ask.
I think this is where I thinkyou really check in and ask,
like about the resentment andthe bitterness that comes with
it.
And then ask yourself, like ifyou did something for yourself
first and then poured from afull cup, are you still going to
feel that bitterness orresentment?
Because the one thing you'regoing to start seeing a big

(50:47):
change immediately is you nolonger are going to hate
yourself.
You're actually going to startrespecting yourself, and when
you respect yourself, you feelhappier, you feel better, you
feel better about your identity,you feel better about you as a
human.
And then that happens, you'regoing to feel like, oh my God,
this is so worth it, like whatI'm feeling and the connection

(51:08):
that I feel with myself is likeso worth it.
So it's safe for me to be quoteunquote selfish.
And again ask yourself, whatdoes selfish mean to you?
Because to everyone it isdifferent and it doesn't have
one standard meaning.
So you may associate somethingto being selfish, but in reality
it might just be self-care, itmight just be self-love right so

(51:32):
I want you to explore that andask, like why do I think this is
selfish?
and then also ask, like how oldis this belief?
Like since when have I beenhaving this belief that this is
selfish?
And then, where did I learnthat this is selfish?
That's when the parentingfigures come, or ex-boyfriends
come.
Like where did I learn thattelling my truth or saying no is

(51:53):
selfish?
And then asking is thatultimately true?
The person that I learned from,do I want to have their life?
Do I want to have the life thatthey're living, or do I resent
the life that they're living?
And I want to have a betterlife?
Right, because the problem isyou've learned it from someone
and unconsciously, you'reidealizing that person.
Then, in reality, you may noteven want to have their life.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Right.
I remember when you first toldme that, I was like you know,
that's some really good advice.
I was just like, because thatmakes a lot of sense.
Like I think you not in justthis scenario, but I think we
were talking about like friendsand giving advice, and you're
like never take advice fromsomeone's life that you do not
want.
And I was like, well damn, thatmakes a lot of sense Because a
lot of people's got a lot ofopinions and I don't necessarily

(52:38):
want to live the way they live.
So why would I take the advice?
Because obviously they'refollowing their own advice.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Exactly, exactly, exactly, and this is the same
thing, right?
It's like you look at someone,you ask where you mirror that
behavior from, and if they'renot your role model, then what
are you doing?

Speaker 1 (52:56):
It's like no, it made .
It made a lot of sense when yousaid it, because I was just
like you know, sometimes youjust need it to be said in a
certain way that you canunderstand it.
And it's like that, like thispodcast is not going to click
for some people.
Some people are going to belike, yeah, I've tried all that,
it doesn't work for me.
And then there's going to besome people that listen to it
and go why have I never thoughtabout that before?

Speaker 2 (53:16):
And then you know it's so funny, I saw somebody do
this like it's the best thingand I, I like, even asked him I
said can I use this, you know,for myself and can I use this
for my?
And he's like, yeah, um, hewould do this like anytime I
asked a question.
He would close his eyes and hewould be like, please give me a
few seconds and then answer withclarity, instead of saying yeah

(53:40):
, yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure,because that's a very like
people pleaser thing.
Right, we immediately agree wehave to.
If we don't, we're like oh myGod, they're getting
uncomfortable.
Okay, they're waiting.
No, no, no.
Like just pause and sit withyour body and ask just for like
20 seconds.
How does that feel?
Like and then give them ananswer Like that will be so

(54:01):
different from when you givethem an answer right away.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Well, not just even about the people pleasing, but
I've heard that before too, andthat's more of an actual um.
You're listening to understandversus listening to hear someone
talk, and, like that moment ofpausing, you're actually sitting
there reflecting on what theysaid so that you can then give
them an accurate statement,because sometimes we do just pop

(54:25):
off at the mouth and then we'relike, oh, that just came out
real raw.
That's not what I was trying tosay so true.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
And I think this is also where you say like
listening to respond and notlistening to react.
Yep, because reaction is likequick response takes time.
Yeah, I agree.
And you know everybody has 20seconds to spare when you're
gathering your thoughts, becausenow they know that you've
answered with intention.
Like when you've said yes, theyknow that you really mean it

(54:52):
Yep, I agree.
And when you've said no, theyalso know that you've really
meant it.
Like what I've started doingrecently is like when people ask
me something, I've started likesaying can I let you know in a
few days?
Yeah, and you know there is amomentary discomfort I'm not

(55:13):
going to lie because of a formalbeing, a former people pleaser
but then I'm also like you knowthis is good, because now
they're also going to know thatI've taken time to think about
it and when I get back with myanswer, they know that I'm not
pleasing them Right?
They know that I've thoughtabout it and I know I've thought
about it, I've given myselfgrace and time, so I know I'm an
integrity.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
I agree with you.
Now, guys out there that dothis, I have a couple of friends
that do this and they do it asa how do I put this?
They already know they're goingto say no.
They do it to quote, unquoteplease you for a couple of days
to make them think that theymight give in to you.
So do this with intention, likeanything that we do in life.

(55:55):
I think if we're justintentional about it, I think
that truly makes someone comeoff very authentically yourself,
just to move in integrity, tomove in intention.
Because when we are peoplepleasing, when we are doing all
these things and we're not beingwho we are, I think people know
that.
I think your personality comesacross as like you just have,
like you said, you feel itthere's an eek.
Now, like you said, takers aregoing to take it.

(56:17):
They don't care if they feellike your personality is coming
off different, whatever, they'rejust going to take and take and
take, but someone who is trulyyour friend and whatnot, it's
going to feel not genuine andthere's going to be a disconnect
in that friendship relationship, whatever.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
No, absolutely Like.
I've even like, like I do thiswith friends with, just like
crazy I know it might sound likehigh school, actually, no, it's
actually, it's actually quitemature.
I'll tell you what I do.
Do this with, uh, close friends, best friends, and I'll always
be like you have to be honestwith me.
This is a, this is.
It's not a criteria, it's notconditional, but this is, this

(56:53):
is what I really really need andthis is what I really
appreciate.
Like, if I'm doing something tooffend you or if you don't like
something about something you,you have to come to me and like,
tell me, talk to me about itand we talk about it like adults
.
You cannot for me.
The greatest betrayal for me islike my close friends or best
friends talking behind my back,yeah, and saying shit about me

(57:16):
behind my back, and I'm justlike no, you don't, you don't
have to people, please me in myface and go behind my back, like
you can.
I'm actually a safe space.
You can actually like, tell me,like what you think, or like
what's coming up for you, and wecan actually navigate it.
So full circle coming back isis that a?
Is that a preventative measurefor people policing.

(57:38):
I think once you establish safespaces and if you can be a safe
space and you can be a goodcommunicator, like this is not
taught in school.
Guys like how to communicate,it's not taught.
No it's not.
You can be a good communicator,you can have a rich
relationships, you can have richfriendships, you can have rich

(58:01):
everything, but you should wantto make that change.
Right, I agree, talked aboutthis before starting the podcast
.
Like you should want to makethat change.
You should want to notself-abandon, you should want to
not be a people pleaser,otherwise, all of this is going
to go in your head.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Right, and I think there's a lot of people out
there because you know, I hadseveral people reach out to me
and ask us to do this podcastand I think that people want to
do it.
I think it's more of a.
It's an uncomfortable thing.
Anytime you're changing yourpersonality.
After doing it for 30 years orfor me, for 37 years you're kind
of set in that way, like it'sjust more of a pattern and
you're comfortable doing it.

(58:38):
So it's really uncomfortable.
Diving into why you dosomething, or to reach out to
someone and say, hey, can youcoach me?
It's very uncomfortable to dothat because then you have to
live through things that you maynot want to relive.
But at the end of the day, ifyou truly want to change those
behaviors, you're going to haveto do something different.
That's not comfortable for you.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Yeah, I mean, like Albert Einstein said that, right
, it's like doing the same thingand expecting a different
outcome as insanity.
So it's like if you'recontinually people pleasing but
you expect other people to havemore compassion for you and and
them, them hold space for youand them understand you.
Oh, I'm sorry, Like you're notchanging anything, Like you're,
you're just expecting others todo things for you because you

(59:19):
don't like taking accountability.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Yeah, and I mean it's hard Like I've.
I've I've talked to friendsabout it.
You know where they're doingthe same thing and like that
they come to me and that theywant advice.
I'm like, look, I'm going to,I'm going to be really real with
you right now.
This has been going on for aslong as I've known you and I
give you advice every time youask for it.
And I'm not telling you I'm nota therapist, I'm not whatever.
I'm just one of your very closefriends that cares about you.

(59:43):
And if you want a differentoutcome, you're going to have to
do something different.
I mean, it sounds so simplewhen you say it out loud, but
it's real Like when you'resaying it to someone who's not
ready to hear it, it's justfalling on deaf ears.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
This doesn't hit.
Yeah, it just doesn't hit.
And I think again, this iswhere this is not about.
You know, people pleasing, butit's like I truly believe, like
not giving advice until someoneasks, and I hate when somebody
gives me advice when I don't ask.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
I hate.
I know I'm really bad about it.
I gotta, I gotta get better atthat.
I'm like well, I think, no,jonna, no like I.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
I literally was, I had, I literally had to tell um
another friend that you need tostop yucking on my yum.
I literally had to have aconversation.
I, I literally had to say Ididn't ask for your opinion, I
didn't ask for your advice.
You need to stop yucking on myum.
If I'm sharing an experienceand I like it and you have an
opinion, you don't have to be abitch.
Remember what Buddha said ifyou don't have anything nice to

(01:00:46):
say, you can be quiet.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
I'm not a bitch.
When I give advice, I do.
I do always preface things withlike hey, like you definitely
don't have to take what I'msaying as the end all be all,
because I'm not a perfect person, but from the outside
perspective, looking in, becausea lot of times I'm really good
at staying neutral.
Even, for example, if one of mybest girlfriends is married and
I am not friends with thehusband, I'm pretty good at

(01:01:13):
staying neutral and going hey,in this story that you're
telling me, I can kind of seewhere he would get upset about
this.
And of course, some of myfriends do not like that.
They're like, excuse me, you'remy friend, I am your friend.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
You know.
So true Interesting pointbefore we wrap up like one of my
like friends was, you know,complaining about her husband
and she was like, oh, he doesn'tdo this and he doesn't like do
that.
And then I was asking her likeokay, if he's telling you to do
something and you don't want todo it?
Then I was asking her like okay, if he's telling you to do
something and you don't want todo it, then why are you doing it
?
And then having resentment thathe's not reciprocating your

(01:01:51):
energy and your love, like whywould you in the first place do
that when you don't feel likedoing it right?
And this is where I say likeplease, please, take
accountability.
It's not cute, it's notromantic, it's not sweet, sorry,
it's just not.
It's just not because it's notsustainable.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
I agree.
No, I appreciate you doing thispodcast with me.
I think that was wonderfuladvice that you gave.
So I hope everyone listeninglike truly, just take some time,
takes that pause, takes that 20second pause to just reflect
after listening versus you know.
But, and personally, if, if itis deep-rooted and it is from a
childhood trauma and everything,I again advocate for seeking

(01:02:33):
out help, whether that bethrough a life coach like me and
you, or whether that be throughtraditional therapy, like I,
truly think that when it comesto childhood trauma and it's so
rooted because I've been throughit and I've, you know, I went
through coaching with me and youwe don't realize it.
There's a lot of things thatit's kind of hard to self-help
your way out of.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
It is.
It is because your own mind isnot going to allow you to go
that deep, because when you gothat deep it's painful.
So your own mind is actuallygoing to protect you from
feeling pain.
Mind is actually going toprotect you from feeling pain.
That's why people are not ableto, like, go deeper and do the
work.
That's why we're here, that'swhy we're coaches, that's where
they're a therapist like,because we can help you see
parts of yourself that you'reunable to do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Right, I agree, so until next time, guys.
Thank you for listening.
Bye, bye guys.
Thank you you.