February 5, 2025 • 34 mins
Unlock the secrets of elite baseball success with our special guest, the legendary coach Butch Chaffin, who brings an astonishing 38 years of experience, including working with USA Baseball. Gain insights from Butch as he uncovers what sets elite athletes apart from the rest: mental toughness and an insatiable love for competition. Discover how top players thrive by facing formidable opponents and maintaining unwavering confidence, and learn about the significance of nurturing a genuine love for the game in young athletes. Butch shares how instilling passion can help athletes embrace challenges and resist external pressures, setting the stage for a potentially extraordinary career in baseball.
In another riveting conversation, we tackle the challenge of building mental toughness in athletes. Drawing from personal military experience, we offer compelling anecdotes on overcoming fears and breaking through perceived limits. Find out how coaching can parallel military training by instilling a mission-driven mindset and fostering teamwork, transforming athletes into resilient competitors. This episode provides invaluable strategies for coaches and athletes alike, focusing on the journey of personal growth and unwavering determination. Join us for a deep dive into the mindset and skills that shape champions, and learn how these principles can be applied to sports and life.
Join the Baseball Coaches Unplugged podcast where an experienced baseball coach delves into the world of high school and travel baseball, offering insights on high school baseball coaching, leadership skills, hitting skills, pitching strategy, defensive skills, and overall baseball strategy, while also covering high school and college baseball, recruiting tips, youth and travel baseball, and fostering a winning mentality and attitude in baseball players through strong baseball leadership and mentality.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken
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Baseball Coaches Unplugged is apodcast for baseball coaches,
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(00:22):
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(00:43):
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Hello and welcome to BaseballCoaches Unplugged.
(02:07):
I'm your host, coach KenCarpenter, and joining me for a
second time.
One of the most popularpodcasts I've had since starting
back in 2020, is the one andonly Butch Chaffin.
He's coached USA Baseball andhe's been coaching for 38 years.
(02:28):
Coach, thanks for taking thetime to be on the Baseball
Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Oh, always it's fun to do this.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, I imagine you're in Tennessee.
You're probably dealing with alittle bit of snow, like we are
here in Ohio.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
We got some last week .
We got about four inches.
We're not set up for snow, sowe get a heavy frost and it's
cool.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, it's a little different than it is here in
Ohio.
Well, I wanted to bring youback on because you know I
wanted to cover as many shortlittle topics as possible and
you know I wanted to start offwith you.
Know you being coaching withUSA Baseball, you've coached
some of the best players in thecountry and what, in your
(03:19):
opinion, are the biggestdifferences that makes these
guys the elite versus just yourvery good high school player?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I think, obviously skill, you know they're all
going to have skill.
But we've had a lot of peoplewho were first-rounders, highly
skilled, who, when they're 17years old and the first time
they have to compete againstother great players, they crack.
(03:53):
And some kids are lesserathletes and the mental
toughness that drives them andthe mental toughness that drives
them, they're relentless andtheir will to complete tasks is
second to none.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So basically they know they're good and they got a
chance to really do well as faras baseball goes and move up
the ladder and anywhere fromcollege to professional level.
I guess is it because of thatthey really invest so much time
in making themselves as good aspossible.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
There's all kinds of intangibles, which is we get
blown up all the time by guysthat have no idea what they're
talking about.
Oh, you picked the wrong guy,but they're not there with them.
We in my two years with USABaseball our best players love
(04:58):
to compete.
They love seeing pitcherslumping up now against the best
hitters, the best hitters.
They love to see the best arms,and I've talked to a lot of
these players about it and theyjust love that.
(05:19):
Competitive people and theystill see the game as a game.
It's not like a game, it's justa game.
And to get in the box against,you know, a 17 year old is 96
with a power slider change andget a hit off, that just boost
their confidence.
(05:40):
And then if they don't get it,you know they go back to the
dugout say I'll get him the nexttime because I've gotten before
.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So how do we get parents and and even the players
to not put all this money andtime into I don't know.
I can't think of a better wordpropaganda machine, as far as
some of the crazy stories youhear about travel, baseball and
AU tournament and AU rankingsand things like that and just
(06:18):
focus on getting their kid abetter experience, because
ultimately, you know, whenthey're young like that, you
don't know which way they'regoing to go.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Right.
I think the best players lovebaseball.
They don't like it.
They don't like to train.
They love to train, they loveto compete, they love to be
there.
They love it when it's 100degrees and their pants are wet
(06:50):
because of the sweat they'resweating through their clothes.
They love it and they lovebeing around their friends and
they love learning and they lovetalking.
And if you don't love baseball,you're not going to be a
professional baseball player andyou have to love it.
(07:10):
When it's not being good foryou, it's hard, you're not
finding success, it's easy tolove the game when you're
hitting 500 and you're beingnamed all tournament.
They're coming easy and youknow you're playing kids that
are younger than you anddominate.
(07:32):
It's easy to love a game.
Can you go 0 for 1 in yourfirst, get blown away by three
fastballs, go back to the dugout, get, get an hour-long brain
delay before your next hit batand be ready for that next hit
(07:52):
bat?
You know you've got to love thegame.
You've got to love your peers.
You've got to love the peopleyou're playing with, your
coaches.
You've got to love getting goodfeedback.
There's a lot of love in thetough to baseball and I've had a
whole bunch of people ask meyou know about health.
(08:15):
How do you get up?
How do you make it tough?
Well, you reverse, engineer itand you create a level of game
to where you'll go throughanything to play the game.
Say setup where you havepractice in the morning, you
(08:49):
wake up early, eat breakfast,you have meetings, you go
practice, get on the bus, youcome back, you take a nap 45
minutes, you're back on the bus,you take bad news to play a
game and then, after the game,you review what you just did.
You're given all kinds offeedback positive and negative,
(09:11):
constructive and you've got tolove it.
And if you don't love it, youprobably shouldn't play.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I watched one of the videos where you were talking.
I watched one of the videoswhere you were talking and you
talked about why should batterstrain to hit hard versus trying
to hit far.
Can you kind of explain?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
that I think there's a difference between strength
and power and eight-year-oldwith strength and if you master
strength, hitting the ball hard,it's strength, power's helpful.
I think if you have strengthyou're going to find power.
(09:56):
And I just did a lesson at acamp with an eight-year-old at
North Carolina.
He's eight years old and thekid has one of the most
unbelievable swings.
It's super adjustable.
He finds the barrel and I toldhis dad, his dad goes how should
(10:22):
I train him?
And I said never throw stuff atthe kid, always throw hard.
Get him on curveball machinebecause he's an advanced hitter
and he's going to get bored,he's going to develop flaws and
you're just flipping balls offthe ad.
(10:43):
So I got him in the cage and wewere probably in paces apart
and I was throwing a curve andhe just kept barreling.
He kept turning it up and hekept barreling and I said that's
how you need to train him.
He would be so far ahead ofother eight-year-olds he plays
(11:04):
with because he's used tostaying hard.
Don't scare him.
I would rather have a hitter beable to adjust down than try to
figure out how to adjust upwhile it's happening.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
You're a big culture guy.
When I reached out to you overthe phone you asked about topics
we might discuss and I saidOhio State, notre Dame.
I'm an Ohio State grad and fanand you know you're a big Notre
Dame guy.
(11:40):
So much.
But your impressions of whatMarcus Freeman and Ryan Day did
with how they turned their teamsaround, because Notre Dame
losing to Northern Illinois andthen just tears it up from there
and Ohio State having a toughloss to Michigan and they all of
(12:00):
a sudden just go on a runthroughout the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Obviously I'm a Notre Dame fan.
I wanted Notre Dame to win thatgame.
But what a great study of twocoaches who face adversity from
a different angle.
For an angle, ryan Day loses totheir arch rival and convinces
(12:29):
his guys to do a 180, run thetable in the playoff.
You know, dual date it.
I honestly believe this.
If Ohio State doesn't lose toMichigan, they don't win the
national championship Becausethey would have kept stumbling
(12:51):
through, barely winning.
Somebody would have got caughtand beat them.
But because they had skin inthe game, they got bloodied up
by Michigan.
They got embarrassed.
People were calling client upby Michigan.
They got embarrassed.
People were calling BryantDay's head on a platter.
It made them lock back in,concentrate and nobody wanted to
(13:14):
play Ohio State in the playoffs.
And then Marcus on the otherside is my guy, came from Ohio
State, linebacker from OhioState, linebacker with Ohio
State, goes to Notre Dame,follows a plethora of guys that
(13:35):
I'll say it.
They were verbally abused byreally good players and it's
really hard to build a strongculture when your players,
you're on another team from themand Marcus comes in young guy,
38 years old, knows what hewants to get done, hires coaches
(13:56):
that are older than him, whoare really good football coaches
, who are really good footballcoaches.
And Marcus takes a team andmakes them believe.
And after the Northern Illinoisgame in week two, no-transcript
(14:25):
every game, because the bestthey could do was fifth because
they weren't in a conference andI saw a t-shirt and it said
Catholics versus conferences.
Instead of Catholics versusCatholic, it said Catholics
versus conferences.
And the best part we're goingto lose is Notre Dame $20
(14:49):
million and doesn't have tosplit it with anyone.
So you know we can pump thatback in.
So I feel good about that.
But you have two culturebuilders who are under
unbelievable amounts of pressureand Ryan Day got it done and
Notre Dame didn't win and theyweren't happy, satisfied, but
(15:14):
you had to know that MarcusFriedman walked into that locker
room and was super proud yeah,and I think, like a lot of times
when you lose it, he learned alot from that and they're going
to be much better in the future,at least in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Hopefully we're entering.
He learned a lot from that andthey're going to be much better
in the future at least in myopinion.
Hopefully we're enteringanother golden age of Notre Dame
football.
Well, with mentally trainingplayers, what do you do to get
(15:52):
your players to be tougher?
I't know?
Then, then maybe they thinkthey are they, you know they,
it's almost like you.
You see a player and you'relike you know you can get, you
can do more.
What, what do you?
What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I think you just said it and I've been saying it for
years and I've told every teamthat I've coached you've got
more than you think you have andyou're tougher than you think
you are.
If you watch, like TikTok orany kind of videos people that
get into fights there's twokinds of people that get into
(16:21):
fights.
There's people that get punchedand they lay on the ground and
just keep getting punched, likenobody's coming to save them.
And if you can venture guys,you're tougher than you think
you are and nobody to save youand I have to figure this out
fight your way out of it.
Um, the natural progression ofsolving problems is going to
(16:42):
create stuff.
Uh, if I went out and ran fouror five miles right now, I'd be
really proud of myself, and along time ago, you know, I
started running I've never beena runner when I was in college
as a player.
I remember running distancewith guys going when I get done
(17:04):
playing, never doing this again,and then years later, just to
prove something to myself,becoming a runner.
And then years later, just toprove something myself becoming
a runner, and then having thecourage to go marathon and
running every step of a marathonin like four hours and the
sense of satisfaction that I gotwas oh my god.
(17:27):
You know, I did something thatI didn't think I could do and I
proved that to myself, and Ithink any coach that challenges
players when they complete thetask, they're super proud of
themselves.
So I think, to get toughness,you present tasks to players
(17:47):
that they don't think they cando, that you know they can do,
and then they do it and you showhow proud you are.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Right, exactly, I think that you know.
I refer back to my militaryexperience.
I asked how I could make moremoney and they said hazard duty
pay.
And I said, well, what doesthat entail, money?
And they said hazard duty pay.
And I said, well, what doesthat entail?
And they said you can jump, wejump out of airplanes.
And I said, yeah, I'll do it.
And then he said, well, we'llgive you $85 more a month.
(18:17):
And but I was terrified ofheights and, uh, you really find
out a lot about yourself when,uh, you're, you're in with a
group of guys and the drillinstructors jump masters.
They made you do things thatyou didn't think you were
capable of doing Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
And in the modern military, those drill
instructors, those drillinstructors you had, were some
of the finest coaches in America.
They had to be, and you thinkabout it, we're talking about
baseball coaches.
Those guys were coaching guysto survive and to do things they
(19:06):
don't think they can do.
You know, and I don't know ifyou know this, my dad was a
computer and he was on the beachat Normandy the night before
and I asked him he was planningthe depth charges 83 guys in the
office, 80 of them got killedand my dad made it off that
(19:28):
beach.
And I was like Dad, what wereyou thinking?
I had to make it off that beachand he goes.
I had no choice.
I either had to get off thebeach or not.
And I found a way to get offthe beach after I had missed my
mission.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right, and I'm sure he referred back to all the
training that he did too.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Absolutely, he used to talk about.
He used to talk, you know hewas Navy Special Forces, started
out as UDP and he talked aboutit was about the mission, it was
about your guys and it wasabout your gear.
You take care of your gear, youtake care of your dear, you
(20:11):
take care of your guys and themission will take care of itself
, yeah, and for him to do whathe did, that's you know.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
you can't thank somebody for that type of
sacrifice enough.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
You know, and I'm a kid and I'm like Dad, are you
scared?
And his son up there he's likewe're all worse kids.
But you got to through that.
That comes back to thetoughness piece.
I don't think I can run thesefive miles.
Sure, you can, but pick yourfoot up, then pick your other
foot up, then pick your.
(20:49):
Just keep going, pick you justkeep going.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, I, I always joked that, uh, every jump was a
night jump for me and that wasbecause my eyes were closed.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
You, know and thank you for your service but um, why
?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
my most recent guess I had, on two division, three
players and um, I had anopportunity to coach them when
they were in high school andthey talked about the
differences between high schooland college baseball.
And they said that there were,you know, guys on the high
school team that they had nointentions of playing beyond
(21:26):
that high school experience andthey were there to have fun and
have a good time.
And the guy, those two guys,they, they want to take their
talents to play at the collegelevel.
And how?
How did you reach the playersthat you had on your team, that
they they had, you know, highschool was going to be the end
(21:48):
of their baseball career.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Well, I think I had several players that when I
talked to them they didn't wantto play in college and they just
wanted to play high school and,like you said, have fun, but
they still wanted to compete.
They still want to compete andI think the forgotten piece of
it all is every kid that playshigh school wants to play in
(22:15):
college and that's notnecessarily the truth.
And, to be honest with you, I'mgoing to make you a baseball
player and if you want to playin college, maybe that'll
translate.
But if you don't want to playin college, I still need you to
be a really good high schoolbaseball player Because we want
(22:35):
to win these games and I alwaysthink about all my friends who
say be where your feet are.
I say, enjoy the moment, like,enjoy this moment, enjoy this
moment.
I think what happens to behonest, ken, is a lot of people
(22:57):
in high school are thinkingabout playing in college.
They miss the high schoolexperience, don't enjoy it.
It's so stressful becausethey're trying to get to college
and then they get to collegeand then they get in college and
it's really hard.
They've never sat before.
They have to sit, make theirturn and then when they get in
(23:21):
the game, it's really hard forthem.
If you're good, art never getseasy.
Tara Lawson basketball herwomen's coach talks about hard
never gets easy.
You know it's always going tobe hard and you think about it.
You were in high school.
(23:42):
You were in class, it was hard.
And then you got in college itwas still hard.
And then you got a job it wasstill hard.
And then you got a job and itwas still hard.
Life doesn't get easy if you'redoing it right.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I don't know.
The last time I had you on wasback, I think, when I say 2020.
I don't know if I got a chanceto ask this, but do you hate
losing or love winning?
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I tell you what I come home to the losses a lot
more than the wins.
But I remember the big wins andwhere I was at with my school
we had very average players andwe'd have a really good player.
So when we got to the statetournament we would win games to
(24:32):
get to the state tournament,man on purpose.
I tried to really pay attentionand enjoy it and those memories
are so fresh in my mind, like Ican remember my principal
jumping on me so happy he playedfor me and as soon as we get
(24:55):
the third up to get our firsttournament, he's jumping on me
and helping me.
And I physically lifted him outof the way and said watch.
And I pointed at my guys' dogpile Because they had made this
thing up in their mouth theywere not going to dogpile until
(25:17):
we got to the game to get to thestate tournament.
So I had never.
I never saw it bug and I hadwaited so long to see my kids
dogpile.
And here my prince jumps infront of me and I physically
pick him up and sit him down andgo.
Why I stood there and watchedthat.
(25:40):
I had tears in my eyes and mycoaches were jumping on me and
I'm just locked in watching myguys jump on me and I'll
remember that the rest of mylife.
I walked over and I shook thecoach's hand and he goes
(26:03):
congratulations.
And I was thank you so much.
But I can remember every secondof the big win.
I can also remember poundingout 10 hits and leaving a small
village on base and losing thegame one to nothing because the
(26:27):
wrong hit kept coming into play.
Yeah, I remember that exactgame because on the first pitch
of the game their leadoff guyhit a home run and it was the
only run of the game.
On the first pitch of the game.
I can remember my team strikingout 21 times against David
(26:49):
Price and winning the game 1-0.
So there are games, wins andlosses that I remember.
But let me ask you this, jen Isthere anything worse at the
coach than winning the game andnot playing well and you feel
(27:14):
like you lost the game?
That's the one I hate, that'sthe feeling I hate.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Well, I'm going to give you a hypothetical
situation here.
You have three players that youcould have on your team, Group
A or Group B.
Tell me which ones you wouldcould have on your team Group A
or Group B.
Tell me which ones you wouldrather have on your team Group A
Okay, Mickey Mantle, IchiroSuzuki and Barry Bonds.
And Group B Pete Rose, WillieMays and Hank Aaron.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Willie Mays and Hank Aaron okay, mickey Mantle, even
though I never saw him play, ismy favorite player of all time,
I think, see, I see what you'vedone here.
(28:09):
I think Vaughn's seven MVPmight be the best player of all
time.
I have a place in my heart PeteRose.
I think Willie Mays is in thetop three of all time.
I think Willie Mays is in thetop three of all time, and Hank
(28:38):
Aaron might be the bestright-handed hitter of all time.
So I'm probably going to goMantle, ichiro and Bones.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That's hard man well, to finish up, best story in all
of your years of coaching.
I mean you told some that's apretty good one there with the
dog pile, but is there anotherone that jumps out?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
yeah, we, the year before, the year after that, we
went back to the statetournament.
We go to the state tournamentand for about three or four days
my back was killing me and Ithought it was.
You know all coaches.
I thought it was because Ioverdid it on the field, trained
(29:27):
a muscle, and so it comes gameday.
We start the game.
It's back and forth.
It's they get one in the first,get one in the bottom, they get
one in the third, you get onein the bottom.
(29:48):
It's doing that and both teamsare leaving.
Guys on base, kids are makingdiving catches.
I mean it was an unbelievablegame.
And about the fourth inning I'mdying.
I am hands on knees and I'vebeen over in the dugout and I'm
looking at my coach and he goeswhat's wrong?
(30:11):
And I went.
I haven't, I am done, but I'mnot leaving.
And I go down to the end of theroom we have like a storage
closet in there and I have topee and it feels like I'm going
(30:31):
to pee and it feels like I'mgoing to pee in Razorback and
it's.
At that point I realize I'mabout to pass the kidney stone
in the middle of this game inthe dugout into this plastic
GigaRaid bottle so I'm gettingthis.
(30:52):
We're on defense and there areno outs, no pitching coaches, no
pitches and my coaches arelooking like down at the room.
I'm on one team with my pantsdown, peeing into this Gatorade
(31:12):
bottle and, without gettingtraffic, I think I peed out a
boulder with spikes on it.
It was not pretty Fastestthree-up I've ever seen in my
entire life and I couldn't havepulled my pants out and
threatened them and ran out tothird base and I have no idea
(31:39):
what happened that inning, thathalf inning.
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I've never heard that one.
I've heard a lot of goodstories, but that's a good one,
if you can, my assistant coaches.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
at the end of the year at the banquet, we got it
all done and my assistantcoaches came up and we have one
final presentation and I'mlooking at my notes like did I
leave somebody out and they hadan empty Gatorade bottle?
It was empty and they said wewant to get to this bottle in
(32:17):
case any other emergencies andkeep in mind I bet not a lot of
people knew what had happened.
So I had to explain what hadhappened and I'm telling you I
drink clear liquids, except forblack coffee, because I never
want that to happen to you.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Wow, great story there, though I love that one.
Well, hey, it's a Butch Chaffincoach.
Um, thank you.
Thank you so much for takingthe time.
You haven't even had dinner yet.
So I I really you being on theBaseball Coaches Unplugged
podcast, and I have to apologize.
(32:57):
Everybody that's going to hearthis is not going to understand,
but I have a Chesapeake Bayretriever and he decided to
bring in the biggest bone hecould and chew really loud, so I
had to step away from the micand camera for a few minutes to
wrestle that away from me.
But, coach, thanks again.
I really do appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Anytime you need me.
It's awesome just talking aboutbaseball and you doing this and
having this podcast.
I've been on a hundred of thesethings.
This is one of the best.
One of the ones I enjoy themost.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Well, hey, thank you very much, coach.
If you enjoyed today's show, besure and share it with a friend
and take the time to leave us areview.
It helps us to grow.
The show Baseball CoachesUnplugged is powered by the
netting professionals, improvingprograms one facility at a time
.
Contact them today at844-620-2707, or visit them
(33:52):
online at wwwneticproscom.
As always, I'm your host, coachKen Carpenter.
Thanks for listening and besure to check out a new show
every Wednesday.
Take care.
Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken
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Hello and welcome to BaseballCoaches Unplugged.
(02:07):
I'm your host, coach KenCarpenter, and joining me for a
second time.
One of the most popularpodcasts I've had since starting
back in 2020, is the one andonly Butch Chaffin.
He's coached USA Baseball andhe's been coaching for 38 years.
(02:28):
Coach, thanks for taking thetime to be on the Baseball
Coaches Unplugged.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Oh, always it's fun to do this.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, I imagine you're in Tennessee.
You're probably dealing with alittle bit of snow, like we are
here in Ohio.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
We got some last week .
We got about four inches.
We're not set up for snow, sowe get a heavy frost and it's
cool.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, it's a little different than it is here in
Ohio.
Well, I wanted to bring youback on because you know I
wanted to cover as many shortlittle topics as possible and
you know I wanted to start offwith you.
Know you being coaching withUSA Baseball, you've coached
some of the best players in thecountry and what, in your
(03:19):
opinion, are the biggestdifferences that makes these
guys the elite versus just yourvery good high school player?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I think, obviously skill, you know they're all
going to have skill.
But we've had a lot of peoplewho were first-rounders, highly
skilled, who, when they're 17years old and the first time
they have to compete againstother great players, they crack.
(03:53):
And some kids are lesserathletes and the mental
toughness that drives them andthe mental toughness that drives
them, they're relentless andtheir will to complete tasks is
second to none.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So basically they know they're good and they got a
chance to really do well as faras baseball goes and move up
the ladder and anywhere fromcollege to professional level.
I guess is it because of thatthey really invest so much time
in making themselves as good aspossible.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
There's all kinds of intangibles, which is we get
blown up all the time by guysthat have no idea what they're
talking about.
Oh, you picked the wrong guy,but they're not there with them.
We in my two years with USABaseball our best players love
(04:58):
to compete.
They love seeing pitcherslumping up now against the best
hitters, the best hitters.
They love to see the best arms,and I've talked to a lot of
these players about it and theyjust love that.
(05:19):
Competitive people and theystill see the game as a game.
It's not like a game, it's justa game.
And to get in the box against,you know, a 17 year old is 96
with a power slider change andget a hit off, that just boost
their confidence.
(05:40):
And then if they don't get it,you know they go back to the
dugout say I'll get him the nexttime because I've gotten before
.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So how do we get parents and and even the players
to not put all this money andtime into I don't know.
I can't think of a better wordpropaganda machine, as far as
some of the crazy stories youhear about travel, baseball and
AU tournament and AU rankingsand things like that and just
(06:18):
focus on getting their kid abetter experience, because
ultimately, you know, whenthey're young like that, you
don't know which way they'regoing to go.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Right.
I think the best players lovebaseball.
They don't like it.
They don't like to train.
They love to train, they loveto compete, they love to be
there.
They love it when it's 100degrees and their pants are wet
(06:50):
because of the sweat they'resweating through their clothes.
They love it and they lovebeing around their friends and
they love learning and they lovetalking.
And if you don't love baseball,you're not going to be a
professional baseball player andyou have to love it.
(07:10):
When it's not being good foryou, it's hard, you're not
finding success, it's easy tolove the game when you're
hitting 500 and you're beingnamed all tournament.
They're coming easy and youknow you're playing kids that
are younger than you anddominate.
(07:32):
It's easy to love a game.
Can you go 0 for 1 in yourfirst, get blown away by three
fastballs, go back to the dugout, get, get an hour-long brain
delay before your next hit batand be ready for that next hit
(07:52):
bat?
You know you've got to love thegame.
You've got to love your peers.
You've got to love the peopleyou're playing with, your
coaches.
You've got to love getting goodfeedback.
There's a lot of love in thetough to baseball and I've had a
whole bunch of people ask meyou know about health.
(08:15):
How do you get up?
How do you make it tough?
Well, you reverse, engineer itand you create a level of game
to where you'll go throughanything to play the game.
Say setup where you havepractice in the morning, you
(08:49):
wake up early, eat breakfast,you have meetings, you go
practice, get on the bus, youcome back, you take a nap 45
minutes, you're back on the bus,you take bad news to play a
game and then, after the game,you review what you just did.
You're given all kinds offeedback positive and negative,
(09:11):
constructive and you've got tolove it.
And if you don't love it, youprobably shouldn't play.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I watched one of the videos where you were talking.
I watched one of the videoswhere you were talking and you
talked about why should batterstrain to hit hard versus trying
to hit far.
Can you kind of explain?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
that I think there's a difference between strength
and power and eight-year-oldwith strength and if you master
strength, hitting the ball hard,it's strength, power's helpful.
I think if you have strengthyou're going to find power.
(09:56):
And I just did a lesson at acamp with an eight-year-old at
North Carolina.
He's eight years old and thekid has one of the most
unbelievable swings.
It's super adjustable.
He finds the barrel and I toldhis dad, his dad goes how should
(10:22):
I train him?
And I said never throw stuff atthe kid, always throw hard.
Get him on curveball machinebecause he's an advanced hitter
and he's going to get bored,he's going to develop flaws and
you're just flipping balls offthe ad.
(10:43):
So I got him in the cage and wewere probably in paces apart
and I was throwing a curve andhe just kept barreling.
He kept turning it up and hekept barreling and I said that's
how you need to train him.
He would be so far ahead ofother eight-year-olds he plays
(11:04):
with because he's used tostaying hard.
Don't scare him.
I would rather have a hitter beable to adjust down than try to
figure out how to adjust upwhile it's happening.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
You're a big culture guy.
When I reached out to you overthe phone you asked about topics
we might discuss and I saidOhio State, notre Dame.
I'm an Ohio State grad and fanand you know you're a big Notre
Dame guy.
(11:40):
So much.
But your impressions of whatMarcus Freeman and Ryan Day did
with how they turned their teamsaround, because Notre Dame
losing to Northern Illinois andthen just tears it up from there
and Ohio State having a toughloss to Michigan and they all of
(12:00):
a sudden just go on a runthroughout the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Obviously I'm a Notre Dame fan.
I wanted Notre Dame to win thatgame.
But what a great study of twocoaches who face adversity from
a different angle.
For an angle, ryan Day loses totheir arch rival and convinces
(12:29):
his guys to do a 180, run thetable in the playoff.
You know, dual date it.
I honestly believe this.
If Ohio State doesn't lose toMichigan, they don't win the
national championship Becausethey would have kept stumbling
(12:51):
through, barely winning.
Somebody would have got caughtand beat them.
But because they had skin inthe game, they got bloodied up
by Michigan.
They got embarrassed.
People were calling client upby Michigan.
They got embarrassed.
People were calling BryantDay's head on a platter.
It made them lock back in,concentrate and nobody wanted to
(13:14):
play Ohio State in the playoffs.
And then Marcus on the otherside is my guy, came from Ohio
State, linebacker from OhioState, linebacker with Ohio
State, goes to Notre Dame,follows a plethora of guys that
(13:35):
I'll say it.
They were verbally abused byreally good players and it's
really hard to build a strongculture when your players,
you're on another team from themand Marcus comes in young guy,
38 years old, knows what hewants to get done, hires coaches
(13:56):
that are older than him, whoare really good football coaches
, who are really good footballcoaches.
And Marcus takes a team andmakes them believe.
And after the Northern Illinoisgame in week two, no-transcript
(14:25):
every game, because the bestthey could do was fifth because
they weren't in a conference andI saw a t-shirt and it said
Catholics versus conferences.
Instead of Catholics versusCatholic, it said Catholics
versus conferences.
And the best part we're goingto lose is Notre Dame $20
(14:49):
million and doesn't have tosplit it with anyone.
So you know we can pump thatback in.
So I feel good about that.
But you have two culturebuilders who are under
unbelievable amounts of pressureand Ryan Day got it done and
Notre Dame didn't win and theyweren't happy, satisfied, but
(15:14):
you had to know that MarcusFriedman walked into that locker
room and was super proud yeah,and I think, like a lot of times
when you lose it, he learned alot from that and they're going
to be much better in the future,at least in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Hopefully we're entering.
He learned a lot from that andthey're going to be much better
in the future at least in myopinion.
Hopefully we're enteringanother golden age of Notre Dame
football.
Well, with mentally trainingplayers, what do you do to get
(15:52):
your players to be tougher?
I't know?
Then, then maybe they thinkthey are they, you know they,
it's almost like you.
You see a player and you'relike you know you can get, you
can do more.
What, what do you?
What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
I think you just said it and I've been saying it for
years and I've told every teamthat I've coached you've got
more than you think you have andyou're tougher than you think
you are.
If you watch, like TikTok orany kind of videos people that
get into fights there's twokinds of people that get into
(16:21):
fights.
There's people that get punchedand they lay on the ground and
just keep getting punched, likenobody's coming to save them.
And if you can venture guys,you're tougher than you think
you are and nobody to save youand I have to figure this out
fight your way out of it.
Um, the natural progression ofsolving problems is going to
(16:42):
create stuff.
Uh, if I went out and ran fouror five miles right now, I'd be
really proud of myself, and along time ago, you know, I
started running I've never beena runner when I was in college
as a player.
I remember running distancewith guys going when I get done
(17:04):
playing, never doing this again,and then years later, just to
prove something to myself,becoming a runner.
And then years later, just toprove something myself becoming
a runner, and then having thecourage to go marathon and
running every step of a marathonin like four hours and the
sense of satisfaction that I gotwas oh my god.
(17:27):
You know, I did something thatI didn't think I could do and I
proved that to myself, and Ithink any coach that challenges
players when they complete thetask, they're super proud of
themselves.
So I think, to get toughness,you present tasks to players
(17:47):
that they don't think they cando, that you know they can do,
and then they do it and you showhow proud you are.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Right, exactly, I think that you know.
I refer back to my militaryexperience.
I asked how I could make moremoney and they said hazard duty
pay.
And I said, well, what doesthat entail, money?
And they said hazard duty pay.
And I said, well, what doesthat entail?
And they said you can jump, wejump out of airplanes.
And I said, yeah, I'll do it.
And then he said, well, we'llgive you $85 more a month.
(18:17):
And but I was terrified ofheights and, uh, you really find
out a lot about yourself when,uh, you're, you're in with a
group of guys and the drillinstructors jump masters.
They made you do things thatyou didn't think you were
capable of doing Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
And in the modern military, those drill
instructors, those drillinstructors you had, were some
of the finest coaches in America.
They had to be, and you thinkabout it, we're talking about
baseball coaches.
Those guys were coaching guysto survive and to do things they
(19:06):
don't think they can do.
You know, and I don't know ifyou know this, my dad was a
computer and he was on the beachat Normandy the night before
and I asked him he was planningthe depth charges 83 guys in the
office, 80 of them got killedand my dad made it off that
(19:28):
beach.
And I was like Dad, what wereyou thinking?
I had to make it off that beachand he goes.
I had no choice.
I either had to get off thebeach or not.
And I found a way to get offthe beach after I had missed my
mission.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right, and I'm sure he referred back to all the
training that he did too.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Absolutely, he used to talk about.
He used to talk, you know hewas Navy Special Forces, started
out as UDP and he talked aboutit was about the mission, it was
about your guys and it wasabout your gear.
You take care of your gear, youtake care of your dear, you
(20:11):
take care of your guys and themission will take care of itself
, yeah, and for him to do whathe did, that's you know.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
you can't thank somebody for that type of
sacrifice enough.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
You know, and I'm a kid and I'm like Dad, are you
scared?
And his son up there he's likewe're all worse kids.
But you got to through that.
That comes back to thetoughness piece.
I don't think I can run thesefive miles.
Sure, you can, but pick yourfoot up, then pick your other
foot up, then pick your.
(20:49):
Just keep going, pick you justkeep going.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, I, I always joked that, uh, every jump was a
night jump for me and that wasbecause my eyes were closed.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
You, know and thank you for your service but um, why
?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
my most recent guess I had, on two division, three
players and um, I had anopportunity to coach them when
they were in high school andthey talked about the
differences between high schooland college baseball.
And they said that there were,you know, guys on the high
school team that they had nointentions of playing beyond
(21:26):
that high school experience andthey were there to have fun and
have a good time.
And the guy, those two guys,they, they want to take their
talents to play at the collegelevel.
And how?
How did you reach the playersthat you had on your team, that
they they had, you know, highschool was going to be the end
(21:48):
of their baseball career.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Well, I think I had several players that when I
talked to them they didn't wantto play in college and they just
wanted to play high school and,like you said, have fun, but
they still wanted to compete.
They still want to compete andI think the forgotten piece of
it all is every kid that playshigh school wants to play in
(22:15):
college and that's notnecessarily the truth.
And, to be honest with you, I'mgoing to make you a baseball
player and if you want to playin college, maybe that'll
translate.
But if you don't want to playin college, I still need you to
be a really good high schoolbaseball player Because we want
(22:35):
to win these games and I alwaysthink about all my friends who
say be where your feet are.
I say, enjoy the moment, like,enjoy this moment, enjoy this
moment.
I think what happens to behonest, ken, is a lot of people
(22:57):
in high school are thinkingabout playing in college.
They miss the high schoolexperience, don't enjoy it.
It's so stressful becausethey're trying to get to college
and then they get to collegeand then they get in college and
it's really hard.
They've never sat before.
They have to sit, make theirturn and then when they get in
(23:21):
the game, it's really hard forthem.
If you're good, art never getseasy.
Tara Lawson basketball herwomen's coach talks about hard
never gets easy.
You know it's always going tobe hard and you think about it.
You were in high school.
(23:42):
You were in class, it was hard.
And then you got in college itwas still hard.
And then you got a job it wasstill hard.
And then you got a job and itwas still hard.
Life doesn't get easy if you'redoing it right.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I don't know.
The last time I had you on wasback, I think, when I say 2020.
I don't know if I got a chanceto ask this, but do you hate
losing or love winning?
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I tell you what I come home to the losses a lot
more than the wins.
But I remember the big wins andwhere I was at with my school
we had very average players andwe'd have a really good player.
So when we got to the statetournament we would win games to
(24:32):
get to the state tournament,man on purpose.
I tried to really pay attentionand enjoy it and those memories
are so fresh in my mind, like Ican remember my principal
jumping on me so happy he playedfor me and as soon as we get
(24:55):
the third up to get our firsttournament, he's jumping on me
and helping me.
And I physically lifted him outof the way and said watch.
And I pointed at my guys' dogpile Because they had made this
thing up in their mouth theywere not going to dogpile until
(25:17):
we got to the game to get to thestate tournament.
So I had never.
I never saw it bug and I hadwaited so long to see my kids
dogpile.
And here my prince jumps infront of me and I physically
pick him up and sit him down andgo.
Why I stood there and watchedthat.
(25:40):
I had tears in my eyes and mycoaches were jumping on me and
I'm just locked in watching myguys jump on me and I'll
remember that the rest of mylife.
I walked over and I shook thecoach's hand and he goes
(26:03):
congratulations.
And I was thank you so much.
But I can remember every secondof the big win.
I can also remember poundingout 10 hits and leaving a small
village on base and losing thegame one to nothing because the
(26:27):
wrong hit kept coming into play.
Yeah, I remember that exactgame because on the first pitch
of the game their leadoff guyhit a home run and it was the
only run of the game.
On the first pitch of the game.
I can remember my team strikingout 21 times against David
(26:49):
Price and winning the game 1-0.
So there are games, wins andlosses that I remember.
But let me ask you this, jen Isthere anything worse at the
coach than winning the game andnot playing well and you feel
(27:14):
like you lost the game?
That's the one I hate, that'sthe feeling I hate.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Well, I'm going to give you a hypothetical
situation here.
You have three players that youcould have on your team, Group
A or Group B.
Tell me which ones you wouldcould have on your team Group A
or Group B.
Tell me which ones you wouldrather have on your team Group A
Okay, Mickey Mantle, IchiroSuzuki and Barry Bonds.
And Group B Pete Rose, WillieMays and Hank Aaron.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Willie Mays and Hank Aaron okay, mickey Mantle, even
though I never saw him play, ismy favorite player of all time,
I think, see, I see what you'vedone here.
(28:09):
I think Vaughn's seven MVPmight be the best player of all
time.
I have a place in my heart PeteRose.
I think Willie Mays is in thetop three of all time.
I think Willie Mays is in thetop three of all time, and Hank
(28:38):
Aaron might be the bestright-handed hitter of all time.
So I'm probably going to goMantle, ichiro and Bones.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That's hard man well, to finish up, best story in all
of your years of coaching.
I mean you told some that's apretty good one there with the
dog pile, but is there anotherone that jumps out?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
yeah, we, the year before, the year after that, we
went back to the statetournament.
We go to the state tournamentand for about three or four days
my back was killing me and Ithought it was.
You know all coaches.
I thought it was because Ioverdid it on the field, trained
(29:27):
a muscle, and so it comes gameday.
We start the game.
It's back and forth.
It's they get one in the first,get one in the bottom, they get
one in the third, you get onein the bottom.
(29:48):
It's doing that and both teamsare leaving.
Guys on base, kids are makingdiving catches.
I mean it was an unbelievablegame.
And about the fourth inning I'mdying.
I am hands on knees and I'vebeen over in the dugout and I'm
looking at my coach and he goeswhat's wrong?
(30:11):
And I went.
I haven't, I am done, but I'mnot leaving.
And I go down to the end of theroom we have like a storage
closet in there and I have topee and it feels like I'm going
(30:31):
to pee and it feels like I'mgoing to pee in Razorback and
it's.
At that point I realize I'mabout to pass the kidney stone
in the middle of this game inthe dugout into this plastic
GigaRaid bottle so I'm gettingthis.
(30:52):
We're on defense and there areno outs, no pitching coaches, no
pitches and my coaches arelooking like down at the room.
I'm on one team with my pantsdown, peeing into this Gatorade
(31:12):
bottle and, without gettingtraffic, I think I peed out a
boulder with spikes on it.
It was not pretty Fastestthree-up I've ever seen in my
entire life and I couldn't havepulled my pants out and
threatened them and ran out tothird base and I have no idea
(31:39):
what happened that inning, thathalf inning.
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I've never heard that one.
I've heard a lot of goodstories, but that's a good one,
if you can, my assistant coaches.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
at the end of the year at the banquet, we got it
all done and my assistantcoaches came up and we have one
final presentation and I'mlooking at my notes like did I
leave somebody out and they hadan empty Gatorade bottle?
It was empty and they said wewant to get to this bottle in
(32:17):
case any other emergencies andkeep in mind I bet not a lot of
people knew what had happened.
So I had to explain what hadhappened and I'm telling you I
drink clear liquids, except forblack coffee, because I never
want that to happen to you.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Wow, great story there, though I love that one.
Well, hey, it's a Butch Chaffincoach.
Um, thank you.
Thank you so much for takingthe time.
You haven't even had dinner yet.
So I I really you being on theBaseball Coaches Unplugged
podcast, and I have to apologize.
(32:57):
Everybody that's going to hearthis is not going to understand,
but I have a Chesapeake Bayretriever and he decided to
bring in the biggest bone hecould and chew really loud, so I
had to step away from the micand camera for a few minutes to
wrestle that away from me.
But, coach, thanks again.
I really do appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Anytime you need me.
It's awesome just talking aboutbaseball and you doing this and
having this podcast.
I've been on a hundred of thesethings.
This is one of the best.
One of the ones I enjoy themost.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Well, hey, thank you very much, coach.
If you enjoyed today's show, besure and share it with a friend
and take the time to leave us areview.
It helps us to grow.
The show Baseball CoachesUnplugged is powered by the
netting professionals, improvingprograms one facility at a time
.
Contact them today at844-620-2707, or visit them
(33:52):
online at wwwneticproscom.
As always, I'm your host, coachKen Carpenter.
Thanks for listening and besure to check out a new show
every Wednesday.
Take care.
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