WWDC & Apple Vision Pro

Episode Transcript
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Tom (00:00):
There's a bunch of dorks like us.
Alright.
Here we go once again, basic AFShow.
It is Tom Anderson, JeffBatteries B, W.
W.
D.
C.
Week.
Jeff, it has been a week.

Jeff (00:21):
It has been a week, and I'm still coming to you, Tom,
from Jeffrey Dahmer's basement.

Tom (00:25):
Well, you're dressed like in your storing bodies there.
It looks cold.

Jeff (00:29):
It's it's cold.
It's cold in the northeast andsmoky.
It smells like everybody'shaving a barbecue.

Outro Music (00:34):
So They

Tom (00:35):
I saw they postponed the Yankee's game tonight because of
the smoke.

Jeff (00:38):
Oh, I believe it.

Tom (00:39):
I was supposed to be tomorrow.
Like, apparently, it's I don'tknow if it'll be better tomorrow
or not.
They will

Jeff (00:43):
find a engine.
Well, we're supposed to have upto fifteen mile an hour winds
this evening, so maybe that'llblow the smoke your way.
I hope I

Tom (00:51):
think it did all day.
It was pretty breezy here todayand yesterday.
And we don't have as much asyou do up to

Jeff (00:58):
ten year

Tom (00:58):
in Virginia, but we've got is hazy like I was looking at
sun last night?
And it's like this, you know,orange disc, but you don't have
to squint it off.
It's like it's just like yeah.
It's there.
Mhmm.
You know, but Yeah.

Jeff (01:11):
Right.
You you can be Donald Trumplooking at the eclipse.

Tom (01:17):
Yeah.
You could do that.

Jeff (01:18):
You know, I'm sleeping politics.
Well, that one's okay.
What's a good joke?

Tom (01:23):
That one's pretty good.

Jeff (01:25):
Yeah.
You know, you stand on mybackyard.
I have two two little stonewalls.
One's about twenty feet from myback door, and the other one's
about probably forty five feetfrom my back door.
Mhmm.
And if you are standing on theback porch, looking out, there's
a haze at the twenty foot wall.
Nice.
So, yeah, that's great.
My lungs, you know, my lungs,so

Tom (01:47):
cough as much as you need to.
And that's how you

Jeff (01:49):
guys get to take up smoking.

Tom (01:50):
Well, I think you might as well.
So Monday, so we're recordingthis a little bit early this
week.
Gonna be heading out of town tothe beach And so we thought
we'd go ahead and get that doneespecially with it being the
keynote week and w w d cconference and all that fun
stuff.
So we're recording on Wednesday.

(02:11):
So just a couple of days afterthe keynote.
So some you know, if news comesout between now and this
publishes that contradictsanything we're talking about.
Well, it wouldn't be the first.
Yeah.
Yep.

Jeff (02:26):
So what if we've been wrong before, Tom?

Tom (02:28):
Oh, yeah.
We'll be give us a coupleminutes.
We'll do it again.
So last show, we did our wishlist for the conference to see
what well, to to express what wewould like to see.
And then Tom.
Yeah.
Did okay.
No surprise.

Jeff (02:47):
No.
You did great.
Santa Claus loves you.

Tom (02:50):
Yep.
Oh, Santa Cook cooked me up.

Jeff (02:53):
Yeah.
Right.
Send a cookie a good job.
Mhmm.
So we could do a quick rundown.
I'll just tell you everythingTom got right.
Widgets redone, bring back thedash Well, maybe not the
dashboard, but he definitely gotsome redone widgets gonna be
able to interact with those.
A better strange strangemanager.

Tom (03:12):
I'm not gonna comment on that.

Jeff (03:16):
I'm what's a better strange.
All sorts of things that couldbe said about that.
Stage manager, free formedwindow sizes.
You got that too, Tom.
Yeah.

Tom (03:25):
It sounds like it from what does people were saying.
So it looks like they made somesome nice improvements to that.

Jeff (03:32):
Correct.
Better data visualization.
Actually, the better healthapp, particularly in the macOS
side.
Gonna get some health there.
That's good.
We were both riding about afifteen book fifteen inch
MacBook Air.
Not that there was much chanceto get that particular thing
wrong.
And I will say that everythingelse that I wished for, Tom.

(03:53):
I get bookies.
I get a hole in my stocking.
Zippy cook stocking.
Yep.
You know what I mean?
You know, who knows?
Maybe something like my displaymenu.
And the menu bar will show up,you know, when I download a
latency.

Tom (04:06):
But Right.
Yeah.
Because a lot of the stuff isYeah.
Is it keynote worthynecessarily, but it ends up
turning up during the -- Right.
-- during the beta words,

Jeff (04:15):
you're saying that

Tom (04:15):
You still gotta change that .

Jeff (04:17):
It's just really pissy.
Is what you're saying.
I mean,

Tom (04:19):
I didn't say it.

Jeff (04:20):
They sent little yeah.
Well, I know I guess.
It's a

Tom (04:22):
little thanks.

Jeff (04:23):
It is too little things.
It definitely is.
Congratulations, Tom.
If we were giving out money

Tom (04:31):
-- Man, well.
--

Jeff (04:33):
for all the things you got, if

Tom (04:34):
we made any money, we could give some out.

Jeff (04:37):
Well, you know, it's kinda

Tom (04:38):
It's early.

Jeff (04:39):
It's early.
Yeah.

Tom (04:40):
Something else they did with well, we could well, I'll
save that we get

Jeff (04:45):
to No.

Tom (04:45):
Say it.
Go.
No.
It's just gonna say when theyif you want, we can lead the use
this as the jumping off point,but so they did that fifteen
inch MacBook Air Uh-huh.
Which looks great.
I think I told you we werechatting back and forth.
So, man, I wish that was out,you know, before when I'd gotten
my sixteen inch Mac a pro, Idefinitely would've picked that
up instead.

Jeff (05:04):
Well, tell and and but

Tom (05:05):
you can't buy what's going on.

Jeff (05:06):
Stole in my computer later .
I would've Right.
We've got it too dicks.
But better job things.

Tom (05:13):
Yeah.
But the other thing they did isthey surprisingly dropped the
price of the thirteen inch model-- Yeah.
-- by a hundred bucks, whichwas nice because that's got some
implications for me at work.
And we're we're evaluatingoptions there, but I think it's
gonna allows to do a littleprocessor upgrade or something
and kinda maintain the sameprice point.
So that'll be kind of nice.

Jeff (05:33):
That's great.
And those MacBook Airs, thatthat form factor is is Brilliant
.
It really is it really is mymiddle child, youngest daughter,
picked one up for school andshe started graduate school in
it's it's a great computer,really is.
So

Tom (05:49):
-- Yep.
-- so they'll they'll sell aton of those.
And the price was was good.
I I expected it kinda fall intothat fourteen ninety nine mark,
but this twelve ninety nine,that's good.

Jeff (05:59):
Yeah.
No.
It's great.
And believable.
That sounds truly

Tom (06:02):
fantastic there.
Other hardware that they did,they upgraded or I should say
updated the Mac Studio.
Yep.
Within m two ultra, so you canget it in m two max m two ultra.
And they bumped the RAM up tothat.
I think up to a hundred andninety two.

(06:22):
I don't remember

Jeff (06:23):
what A hundred ninety two.
Maybe I don't either recall.
Well, you have a short chatback and forth that that might
be not upgradeable at all ineither of these.
Right.
But either the because theyalso did the the Mac pro.

Tom (06:40):
They did.
Yeah.
They did.

Jeff (06:43):
But they're both they have a ceiling of a hundred and
ninety two gigs, both of them.
Mhmm.
Which you had said particularlywith with the pro that that
might make a few people a littlenot happy.
I still think or feel like, youknow, with onboard around now,

(07:05):
it it feels a lot like it'stwice as much.

Tom (07:08):
It does.
Yeah.
And and to be honest, like, Ican't really speak with any
experience on what the folksthat use the Mac Pro and have
jammed, like the the Intel basedMac Pro would go up to one
point five terabytes of RAM.
Which is ridiculous.
But but I don't and I knowpeople use it.

(07:29):
Like, they do large data setsand all sorts of things, but all
I know are you know, a fewthreads I read here and there.
I've never done anythingremarkably close to that so I
cannot speak to it with anyinformed discussion anyway, but
it it is significantly less thanone hundred and ninety two gigs
obviously versus the one pointfive -- Yeah.

(07:49):
-- terabyte but you've gotyour, you know, your expansion
slots are in the Mac Pro now,which so it's basically they
took the Mac Studio, put it inthe Mac Pro chassis and gave you
some you know, PCI expansionslots.

Jeff (08:01):
Yep.
But I thought

Tom (08:02):
it was nuts.
There's, you know, up to twentytwo streams of an eight of
eight k.
My holy crap.
So Yeah.

Jeff (08:13):
And how many I can't remember off the top of my head.
How many monitors did it drive?
Was

Tom (08:17):
it supports up to six pro display XDRs.
Okay.
There it's a couple.

Jeff (08:25):
Just to you.

Tom (08:26):
Nancellon.
Man, imagine painters.
Six of those things.
Doesn't sound like thirty howmuch of those again?
Are they ten, six?
Six days, something like that.
Yeah.

Jeff (08:34):
I don't even look at those things.

Tom (08:36):
No.
Because I can't afford it.
I mean Well, I I could affordit, but it would be it.
Terribly stupid purchase.
Like, I can't justify that.
So, I mean, I'd love to haveone if somebody wants to donate
one to the show for researchpurpose

Jeff (08:51):
Sure.
Yeah.
Sure.

Tom (08:53):
Twenty four core CPU, seventy six core GPU, and that m
two ultra, which is a lot.
So if you need that high endstuff, you've got options there.
And I tell you, man, that maxstudio and that's a that is just
packed full and is a heck of amachine.

Jeff (09:10):
Yeah.
Do you have any of those atwork?

Tom (09:13):
I think we have maybe one so far that one of the music
production folks picked up.
I did not get to see it, but Iseem to recall one coming
through like as a on a p o orsomething.

Jeff (09:26):
Mhmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have a attached one.
It's very nice.
Mhmm.
You know, the back penny thatI'm working on.
Right?
The second as we speak isplenty.

Tom (09:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Don't And don't forget those,like because we're about to
refresh some classrooms.
And so just today, I was I waslooking at that to to spec it
out, send it over to ourreseller.
And I forgot that they droppedthe price of those not long ago
either.
So it just started, like, fourninety nine education, which is
sick.
Yep.

(09:58):
I think because they're

Jeff (10:00):
excellent.
So Oh, they're still one of myfavorite macs.
Yeah.
They they're one of my favoritemacs.

Tom (10:06):
And if I may say for me, it's mostly because you don't
have to deal with that crap thatcomes along with the MacBook
when plug it up to the externaland unplug it and plug it back
in and your windows go crazy.
So we'll never let that go.

Jeff (10:22):
Nope.
Nope.

Tom (10:24):
Alright.

Jeff (10:24):
Nope.
Nope.

Tom (10:26):
Anything else on the Mac hardware side of things you want
.
No.

Jeff (10:31):
That was it on hardware.
Well

Tom (10:32):
--

Jeff (10:32):
Yeah.
-- even in the obvious.

Tom (10:35):
That's why it took me a second to be like, hi.
And it's not just just hardware.
We'll get to that.

Jeff (10:39):
Yes.
And lots of software -- Mhmm.
-- beats particularly in the OS.
OS is and which we're gonnadive into these each a little
bit more deeply in upcomingepisodes.
But, yeah,

Tom (10:57):
when we hit those slow days in the summer when there's not
much else going on.

Correct.

Tom (11:01):
We'll dig into that.

Jeff (11:02):
But some nice new features .
I'll add one to TBOS that I'vethought about and wish was there
before.
They've added FaceTime videoconferencing which I I'll say
that that's something that Iwish I'd I'd had a few times.
And it it uses used as yourphone as a as a means of being

(11:24):
the camera because obviouslymost people's televisions don't
have don't have cameras.
So you've got the ability to todo that.
It's a really nice feature.
Like like that upgrade quite alot, that's kind of a high level
high level feature.
Some changes as we mentioned afew moments ago in macOS to to

(11:47):
the stage manager features orstrange manager

Tom (11:52):
--

Jeff (11:52):
Mhmm.

Tom (11:53):
--

Jeff (11:53):
said before.
I kinda like that better.
Yeah.

Tom (11:55):
I wonder

Jeff (11:56):
if I can get Apple to pick that up.
Strange, man.

Tom (11:58):
Get Craig on the phone.

Jeff (12:01):
By the way, of all the segments in in the in that
keynote.
He's pretty fun dude.
He had about an hour's worth ofstuff.
But he was he was pretty fun to

Tom (12:15):
Yeah.
He's always entertaining.
Yeah.
You know, it just seems like hereally just loves the stuff.
So I don't think that helps.

Jeff (12:21):
It absolutely does.
So that was good.
Some nice little features towatch OS.
IOS, iPad OS.
Yeah.
A a bunch of little littlethings is is what I would say.
It doesn't seem like at leastinitially it's gonna be too
crazy in terms of, you know,features which hopefully means

(12:42):
you get a little better back endback end details working in a
way that they should.

Tom (12:50):
Mhmm.

Jeff (12:51):
But widgets on Mac OS, which is nice.
You build your ranges on yourdesktop in a way that makes
makes sense.
A light the two things I reallyliked is the profiles for
Safari.
Yes.
So work profile where you'redoing one thing in a, you know,
personal profile where you'redoing something else and those

(13:13):
two worlds never meet, which Ikinda like.
I like the idea of being ableto kinda have that breakdown.
I love love love that they arebringing the screensavers that
they've had in TBOS -- Mhmm.

Tom (13:28):
--

Jeff (13:28):
through macOS.
That's sweet as heck.
So I'm really looking forwardto that.
Games.
We still have to do a NintendoSwitch show at some point in
time because I am absolutelyloving that, but I I mean, Maybe
someday games will be good onthe back, but I don't think
that's gonna be a thing.

(13:49):
And then some other featuresrelated to, you know, the usual
the usual stuff.
So privacy and safety, I didn'tsee any updates to the key
chain or an application.
Right.
But there was a feature thatallows you to share passwords to
that you can, you know, sharegroups of passwords with other

(14:11):
people.

Tom (14:11):
That's nice.
That's a nice addition.

Jeff (14:13):
I I really like that.
Yeah.
That's a great feature.

Tom (14:15):
Yeah.
And we'll have to come up witha new way.
It seems at least to talk aboutSiri because they've changed
they're giving you the optionanyway to change how you
activate Siri.
So whether it's the traditionalHUI Siri or naïve to Siri,
which that could be interestingfor, like, podcasters and and

(14:39):
stuff who just wanna talk aboutSiri, you know, you're setting
people's things off.
So maybe they've got someintelligence built in there to
help filter that out.
Yeah.
Because I know they have somealready, so probably just
enhance that.

The

Jeff (14:52):
I will There's a little side note, by the way, on the
the the Syrian Siri thing.
Mhmm.
Again, because I have one herethat would be happy to say hello
to me.
Was watching the final episodeof the Marvelous missus Mayzel
last night, and there'scharacter on on that show.
Whose name is Susie, Andsomebody said, hey, Susie,

Tom (15:12):
of course.
There it went.
I'm having trouble connectingto the Internet.

Jeff (15:19):
It was pretty funny.

Tom (15:20):
Yeah.

Jeff (15:20):
It's funny how that kinda pops off on occasion.

Tom (15:23):
So so it's something that I I saw today that I'm looking
forward to.
And it's is it a big thing?
No.
But in reminders, because Ithink we had talked about this
in one episode that we did whereI think it was in our
grievances maybe.
When we were talking aboutSiri, actually, because I said

(15:45):
that the most frequent use casefor me with Siri is with the
watch when I'm cooking or in thekitchen or whatever, and then
notice I need something and I'llsay, hey.
Mm-mm.
Add something to the grocerieslist.
And now, that when you do that,the reminders app will have
intelligence built in to sortthe list into sections.

(16:08):
So you'll get produce dairy andall that.
Yeah.
So that's nice because wealready use that.
So it's like, should be a zerofriction thing.
Not that we actually Yeah.

Jeff (16:18):
You just order these days.

Tom (16:19):
You usually just order and go pick it up.
But but that that that'll benice supposedly.
AutoCorrect is going to begetting better.
Okay.
And that's and kind of a briefaside, that is one of those
things where, you know, leadinginto it and even during it,

(16:39):
there was, you know, commentarythat Apple doesn't use that I
can recall or if they do, it'svery limited.
The term AI specifically, theyusually go machine learning.
Right?
Criminal networks, machinelearning, that sort of thing.
And they mentioned that inregard to the AutoCorrect, or

(16:59):
it's you're using a transformermodeling.
And so it so from what theysaid is that AutoCorrect on the
device will learn the words youused specifically and learned
not to to change them, but itdidn't make me laugh when Craig
said ducking.
Sometimes just wanna send aducking message.

Jeff (17:22):
Well, and apparently, there was a there was a thing
that came out today.
I didn't I can't rememberexactly where I saw it, but Now
when you type what duckingrefers to, it's not going to
ducking change it

Tom (17:35):
-- Right.
--

Jeff (17:35):
ducking, which is

Tom (17:37):
because how many times do you type that ducking word and
usually is, you may not be inthe most pleasant mood anyway.
Yeah.
And then you take that cake andswitch and you just get amped
up even more.

Jeff (17:50):
Right.

Tom (17:50):
So so thanks, Craig.
We appreciate your help there.

Jeff (17:53):
Yeah.
Thank you very much.

Tom (17:54):
That's good.
IPad OS gets some changes onthe lock screen.
It gets the widgets now.

Jeff (18:03):
Yes.
Nice.
Interactive widgets.
We might

Tom (18:06):
be good.

Jeff (18:06):
Oh, the the the

Tom (18:08):
one thing we haven't talked about yet, and I don't are we
done with iOS?
We we talked a little bit aboutit, but that sideshow thing
looks good where you're with theHold on.
Let me find the name of it here

Jeff (18:20):
real quick.
Remind me tongue.

Tom (18:23):
That's the one where it's stand by.
Sorry.
It's not sideshow.
That's a different thing.

Jeff (18:28):
That's I show Bob.

Tom (18:30):
That's where you've got your cell phone on the charger,
and when it's rotated into thehorizontal aspect.
Oh, yeah.
Right?
It can show a clock or showsome other things.
Looks pretty neat to get, like,some smart stacks, live
activities, things like that.
So that's something I'd like toplay with.
I don't really have a chargerthat I can kind of prop the
phone up in that manner now.

Jeff (18:52):
Mhmm.

Tom (18:53):
It's probably something I'll look at, but Typically,
it's like, you know, I've gotthe watch.
And it's like the phone's juston the desk and stays on the
desk.
Even at night, it's on thenightstand, but with sleep mode,
the screen's off.
And everything.
But -- Mhmm.
-- looks neat.
I think it's kind of a a thingthere's there's more to come to
that story.
Because you and I said in theduring the keynote when we were

(19:15):
talking, man, that would lookreally nice on an iPad.

Jeff (19:17):
Oh, yeah.
Of course,

Tom (19:18):
you don't have an always on display on an iPad at this
point.
Maybe we will, maybe we won't.
But there's that rumored homepod slash something with the
screen that they've been workingon kinda like the the Echo Show
or whatever that is.
Yes.
Because it's the Google Show,the Echo Show, one of those is I
think they both have them, butthey're the smart home
assistance with display.

(19:39):
And then you would have that --Correct.
--

Jeff (19:40):
and it seems like the phone is kinda headed in that
direction anyway with thatfeature.
Yeah.
Alright.
Yeah.
In iPad OS, so in this showsup, I think, in macOS as well as
there's a new PDF features.

Tom (19:57):
Yes.

Jeff (19:58):
It seemed to be much better than they have been
previously.
I I don't know whether or notyou've ever tried to fill in
forms using your Mac now, usingpreview.
And it's, you know, dependingon on the form you're working
with or how you're working withit.
Doesn't always work great.

(20:19):
I had been using PDF PenPro fora while, and that that got sold
off, which is disappointing tome.
So this looks like a niceoption nice option for me to be
able to -- Mhmm.

Tom (20:33):
--

Jeff (20:34):
to kinda handle that.
And the nice piece about it isis it's gonna discover phone
fields.
So even for something that youscan.
So you take a picture with yourphone of some document that has
fields that you might need tobe able to fill in.
That's gonna be picked up bythe new version of preview.
So I don't like that a lot.

Tom (20:54):
I do.

Jeff (20:54):
Sense to me.
Look forward to it plus someinteractive editing.
In in the PDF tool.
So you can be working onsomething with somebody else at
the same time.

Tom (21:04):
Yeah.
And they added that to notestoo.
So that's nice.

Jeff (21:07):
Yeah.

Tom (21:07):
Yeah.
Node just keeps getting betterand better and better, which is
nice.

Jeff (21:10):
I love Node's

Tom (21:11):
fear like we've talked about before sometimes as Apple
forgets they have these appscalendar contacts.

Jeff (21:16):
Mhmm.

Tom (21:18):
But notes, they've they've kinda kept the gas down on the
pedal down on that one and keepit moving forward.
Also saw that you you can nowthey're going to be adding
linking in notes, so you canlink notes inside of other notes
.
Not I'm sure it's not to theextent like you can do with
craft and obsidian and apps likethat, but that's okay.
It doesn't need to be.
Those apps are there if youwant the the more robust super

(21:40):
nerdy version of that, but notesis I think it's good enough.

Jeff (21:45):
Yeah.
And we obviously both use craftThat's how we do show prep.
We kind of toss stuff intothere.
But notes for my money, if itadds those features, it's
probably all all need.
You know, we might needsomething else together.
But

Tom (22:03):
yeah.
And different topic for adifferent day, but I'd love
affair with Kraft.
The bloom is off the rose, asthey say.
And so I don't know.
We'll see.
But did you help?

Jeff (22:17):
We'll see.

Tom (22:18):
Health app on the iPad.
Which is good.
It's gonna make some of thatdata.
I think at least easier to seeon the bigger screen than
sometimes on the phone.
It just doesn't have room tobreathe, and hopefully that'll
help out with that.
I did see to some of thewellness things they've added as
part of that.
So, you know, it'll basicallysay how to feel today.

(22:40):
And then when you give it yourinput, then it it gives you some
things to look at to see, okay,well, wide might you be feeling
that way?
And, like, it showed thescreenshot I saw anyway.
I haven't loaded any of thisstuff personally yet, but the
screenshot showed, like, my moodwas kinda and then below that,
you know, they would show, well,here's how much exercise you've
had over the left left sevendays.

(23:02):
And so things that all feedinto, you know, your general
well-being, which is what we'vetalked about back in that that
wish list show.
Yes.
Last time around was to bestart tying some of this data
together, because it it meansthings.

Jeff (23:14):
Yeah.
Oh, it does.
Absolutely.
It does.
And I I like that.
And we'll also note in unclearto me whether or not this is And
this is actually something thatKirk Mac O'Hern posted on
LinkedIn.
It might have been on his onone of his blogs, but Kirk was
talking about the journaling appand whether or not that was
that's a new feature that'sgonna be for sure in iOS.

(23:34):
But whether or not that's gonnacross over the other the other
OSs and his point was, if it'snot, you know, everywhere, if
you can't, you know, enter a ajournal note on your Mac or on
your iPad, it's only on thephone.
It's gonna limit it itsusefulness.
So hopefully that that willshow up across all devices.

(23:55):
But that's another piece that'skinda tied to the the HealthApp
.
I really like what they'redoing with those things.
Yeah.
On my watch, I like the youknow, the meditate or the focus
feature that kinda pops upeveryone and goes, hey, you
know, maybe you should startyour day with a quiet moment,
you know, just a minute, butit's nice.
So I like those features.
I like what what they're doing.

Tom (24:16):
Yeah.
And speaking of watch watch OSten, man, it's wild.
They're already up to versionten of that.
But, you know, some thingsthere that I think you mentioned
as well we were watching that.
The the hiking stuff, they'veimprove that.

Jeff (24:32):
I'm gonna so look forward to that.

Tom (24:34):
Yeah.
So that that looked really nice.
I don't do that, but it I knowfor people who do it look pretty
good.
So always like to see thosethings come in.
They've taken a kind of adifferent approach to some of
the ways that you kinda bounceback and forth between app or
surface information between appswith the smart stack.
Which is very reminiscent ofthe Siri watch face and that you

(24:58):
would have these little cards,if you will, and they're not
exactly square.
They're more rectangular, butAnd apparently, you you kinda
scroll through those and withthe premise being that there
will be some intelligence builtin given the name.
Smart stack that, you know,it'll surface information at
relevant times during the day.
Like, you had a meeting comingup or It's time to exercise

(25:20):
whatever it is.
So looking forward to tryingthat out.
They've changed some of thedesign language around some of
the app the watch faces.
Sorry.
So, like, when you go in withthe complication into and then
into the app.
So if you go into, like, thefitness app, and you see your
ring information there.
They kinda made that fullscreen.
Mhmm.

(25:41):
And that's, you know, so I cankeep creeping up there a little
bit.
But bigger is better.
I can actually see it.
So so that part's okay.
Won't try that.
And I can't think of anythingelse specifically, and and we'll
we'll get into it.
Yeah.
We can move out all summer toget

Jeff (26:00):
into to -- Correct.
-- details of all this stuff.
Yeah.
And and these are obviously notthe elephant in the room.
These items.
No.
Into the room is the next thingthat we're gonna get to, which
neither of us have put our fatlittle fingers on.
No.
I'll speak for my own fingers.
My own fingers are fat.
It which is the the brand newVisionPRO headset.

(26:25):
Yes.
And, of course, haven't touchedit, but we've got opinions.

Tom (26:30):
Of course, we do.
We had opinions before it evencame out.

Jeff (26:35):
Right.
I did.
In fact, I was relisting to anepisode a little bit ago where
you asked questions about stuffthat was gonna come up.
It was even before our WWDCwish list.
And the first thing I said was,yeah, I don't know if I liked
that thing.
Like, you know, I

Tom (26:52):
think that's the point where I was, like, not talking
about Siri.

Jeff (26:55):
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And, you know, I so let let mejust say, you know, obviously,
none of us have touched it, butI was pleasantly surprised by
the interface.
When I say that, though and andI've had, you know, there's

(27:16):
several people that have used itthat that, you know, we've both
looked at video of, say, forexample, Marcus Bradley.
Who freaking brilliant, youknow, hats off to you, Powell.
We love you here at a basic AF.
But he he was talking about howthe way it followed his eyes,
you know, and allowed him veryeasily just to just put two

(27:40):
little fingers together gently,and it would actually open those
apps.
This is the first time I'veseen any one of these headsets
that I have not thought that theuse case was under stupidity.
Sorry.
I don't have any opinions aboutthis.
But the all the other ones, theoculus, you know, whatever that

(28:02):
is now, you know, the oldmetaverse where you can look at
an avatar yourself.
That stuff to me is like, I'mnot interested.

Tom (28:12):
Right.

Jeff (28:13):
The way that this works the use case for the way the
VisionPRO works.
Man, I I like the idea.
Here's my big problem.
Is as soon as in you know,there's that one scene in the in
the advertisement in the videoat the end where it has the dad
working in kitchen and his kidsare there and his wife is there

(28:37):
and he takes the goggles andputs them over his head and then
starts interacting in that way.
In his side.
As soon as he understand that.
That made me go, oh, no.
You know, I'm a guy who when mykids were little, you know, and
they're starting to get, youknow, little iPads and stuff

(28:59):
like that, We go to the grocerystore, you left that in the car.
Right?
You know, you didn't whenyou're in the grocery store
doing what you're gonna do, it'stime to interact with people.
For me, that feature at thispoint in time puts a distance
between you and everybody elsein the room that it makes me
feel funny inside.

(29:19):
And I mean that, like, it it Idon't know.
It it and not

Tom (29:23):
first girlfriends kiss funny.
It's a different kind of funny.
It ain't that one.

Jeff (29:29):
Yeah.
No.
No.
So that one that one's kind ofenjoyable.

Tom (29:33):
Yeah.

Jeff (29:33):
Yeah.
I I I that's a thing that

Tom (29:36):
Yeah.

Jeff (29:36):
And for all the magic, that's something that for me
just doesn't work.

Tom (29:40):
Yeah.
I didn't feel like they missedreally with anything else, but
that particular one was like andeveryone I've talked to that is
kinda and I say everyone isfive or six people, but but
even, like, with

Jeff (29:51):
all your friends have times.

Tom (29:52):
That's more acquaintances on really only have a couple of
friends.
But even that yeah.
I think it was I don't know.
And if you podcasts I've beenlistening to, like, that that
that one particular thing seemsto be the unanimous.
Yeah.
We don't like that.
But the rest of it's intriguing.

Jeff (30:12):
Very

Tom (30:13):
I think -- Yeah.
-- so, I mean, you and I wereboth saying prior to this, that
the headsets.
And again, this was headsets todate, just warn of interest.
No.
I would like to try this, and Iknow it though.
Okay.
And I said that when we did it.
Somebody had to come out andI'll probably be like, okay.
Yeah.
I wanna try it.

(30:34):
And I do wanna try it.
And I think I just need tofigure out how to do that.

Jeff (30:40):
Yeah.
And there are, you know, I cansee there are some use cases
that I can see where where itmakes sense.
Watching a movie, doingsomething like that, that I
could I get it.
You know, that's kind of athing.
The Right.
I do have to say, well, Iunderstand it and it actually
makes sense.
We have the cameras on the youknow, on the inside projecting

(31:00):
your eyeballs on the inside.
Mhmm.
You know, it's interesting.

Tom (31:05):
I I wanna see it in person.
Because some of the picturesand stuff and, like, man, that
creeps me out.
But I think it it's probablyone of those you see in your
personality.
Yeah.
It still kinda creeps me out,but it is what it is.

Jeff (31:19):
The other thing that I've heard about this, and this is
one of the things that Iwondered.
This is obviously in in normalApple style very high quality
build, which means like youriPhone, it doesn't feel like a
piece of garbage.
It's glass and metal, and it itit has some heft to it.
John Gruber, which will have alink to what he said, in the in

(31:44):
the show notes.
But one of the things that hehad to say is he only had it on
for thirty minutes and he neverever felt like he didn't have
the headset on.

Tom (31:53):
Right.

Jeff (31:53):
It's very front heavy.
And and

Tom (31:56):
I think Frontline's daughter, VHD, said that too.
Right?
He

Jeff (31:58):
said Yeah.

Tom (31:59):
It's it's got some heft.

Jeff (32:01):
It does.
Which you you know, I'm happyto hear that it's not made out
of plastics, not garbage, notdesigned to be to be thrown away
.
But the other thing that Iwonder and the reason I wonder
is friend of mine's daughter wasis no longer but was a
helicopter pilot in the navy.
And she had to wear, you know,when she was flying, they had to

(32:22):
wear night vision goggles.
That required counterweightsfor her because they're so heavy
.
They had to put counterweightson the back of it -- Mhmm.

Tom (32:31):
--

Jeff (32:31):
that you know, allowed it allowed her to be able to keep
her head up without having tofight it all the time.
But she started having neckproblems

Tom (32:37):
--

Jeff (32:37):
Right.

Tom (32:38):
--

Jeff (32:38):
as a result of all the weight that was being put on her
.
And this is still one of thosethings where I think that that's
gonna be that's gonna be anissue, you know, that that the
weight of it is gonna be anissue.
What I foresee in the magic Iforesee in the future is
something It's akin to the oldGoogle Glass, you know, where

(33:02):
you have a pair of glasses thatyou pop on.
Still wouldn't want to wearglasses in the house for people,
but where you have, you know,that kind of a that kind of a
possibility.
And that seems where I hope thefuture is going.
It has and I said this to you,it this feels like the computer

(33:25):
that was in minority report.
Right.
That was but that was like awall, you know.
Mhmm.
But all worked with handmovements and stuff like that.
That would be too much.
I'd love that this is just asimple, you know, doesn't matter
where it is.
The the cameras pick up yourfingers, tap in and and it
follows your eyes to see whatyou're looking at, which is one
of the things that wassupposedly amazing.

(33:46):
That's what what Bradley said.
Yeah.
But until, you know, I I Ithink the weight is gonna be a
factor for long term use, and Ithink it's cool.
I do wanna try it too.
Not gonna you know, with theand the opportunity to do that.
I think also one of the thingsthat stood out to me was the
calibration of it.

Tom (34:05):
Right.

Jeff (34:06):
So Gruber had two points on that.
One was that, you know, itscanned you know, it it
basically looked at his face andand was able to very quickly
sit within a manner or a coupleminutes.
Map out everything that itneeded to to see his eye
movements.
But the other thing that hesaid, he said, he uses
corrective lenses, doesn't usecontact lenses.

(34:27):
And it wears glasses now.
He used to wear contacts, buthe just wears glasses.
And within a matter of seconds,they were able to scan his scan
his glasses.
And then they put the lensinserts into into it.
And that was a a quick deal.
So that sounds like somethingthat might be going on, you
know, at the Apple Store as well.

Tom (34:47):
Yeah.
It's definitely a bit of a asetup process.
Yeah.
Four thirties.
But, you know, again, we'reways away.
So what the setup process isearly next year when it releases
versus now, who's saying.
But the the I imagine the facescanning and everything will
still stay there because that'spart of the fit and everything.

Jeff (35:08):
Right.
But you do that with face IDnow too.
Yep.
A phone, face ID.

Tom (35:13):
Yeah.
And I think they use your I asthe the unlock mechanism for
this thing so they call it Whichis an optic ID.
Yeah.
That that's pretty cool.
And, I mean, they've packed somuch tech into this thing.
I mean, when they talk aboutthe cameras on the outside of
it, cameras on the inside, thedisplays inside that you

(35:35):
actually look at the the soundthe the way the battery connects
the the the head straps ofthose things.
And apparently, they're gonnahave a a a whole bunch of
different sizes for straps andthings like that, at least from
the early things they're tellingpeople, and that has been
reported anyway.
But just so much into it thatbecause one of the things that

(35:58):
you mentioned with the the handgestures.
Right?
Because there's there's nomouse Keyboard.
You could pair that if youwanted to.
When you're working with yourMac, they said you could pair a
Bluetooth keyboard and mouse ortrackpad.
But for the Vision OS, which iswhat this will run.
So it's a whole new operatingsystem.
There's it's hand and eyes.

(36:20):
Voice.
I think those are your threeyour three inputs.
But they've got so many youknow, they've got the cameras
positioned around for theoutside of it so that they, you
know, you can rest your hands onyour lap and not have to be you
know, flailing your arms allover the place to to do the
gestures which would getfatiguing as well.

(36:41):
So I think just being able tosit there and, you know,
comfortably, you know, tap yourfingers for the click, you know,
flip up for the the swiping andthat kind of thing.
I mean, they put a lot ofthought into it.
That's for sure.

Jeff (36:53):
Yeah.
And I I I think the biggestpiece of it going back to flail
in your arms around is the factthat it is tracking you're
tracking your eyes and reallyable to precisely see what it is
that you're looking at on thedisplay and highlight whatever
it is in that particular case,which is I think that's where

(37:13):
the magical piece comes in.
That is kind of a magic youknow, if you having not
experienced it and only listenedto or, you know, having
listened to a red a variety ofpeople.
It's it's that seems to bewhere the magic is.
And I think it was, again, MarkBradley, that said that that he

(37:36):
actually accidentally gentlytouched his two fingers together
.
Like, in some place, he didn'texpect and dang it it did that.
You know, it it handled or itselected whatever it is or open
whatever it is that he had donethat.
So very sensitive and andreally interesting in terms of
the technology that must havegone into that.
You know, it Right.

(37:56):
Cameras down that point downbelow, cameras that are pointing
out.
The other thing I think theysaid that was pretty interesting
was if somebody, you know,you're in the middle of doing
some kind of computer work.
If somebody enters the room,they kinda walk through the you
know, whatever windows you haveup and show up there, which is

(38:17):
kind of impressive as well.
It might be also a littledisorienting.
But,

Tom (38:22):
yeah, imagine you've got the headset on and you're
watching a movie and, like, yourkid strolls into the room and
jumps in front of me and jumpsscares.
Through the headset.
You know, jeez.
About to kill me here.
I've been yeah.
And, you know, there've beenother, I think, the Sony PSVR
two, I think, is what it is.
Let's talk to someone to workabout that.

(38:43):
I've never used it, but it'shad some eye tracking stuff too.
But I know with Marquez sayingthat, you know, it was magic.
That's saying something becausehe tries all the stuff.
Right?
I mean Oh,

Jeff (38:55):
he does.
Yes.

Tom (38:56):
So Is

Jeff (38:57):
that how he pronounces his name, by the way, that just
screw up his name?

Tom (39:00):
I've heard both.

Jeff (39:02):
Okay.
Good.

Tom (39:02):
So Yeah.
It doesn't matter.
He's

Jeff (39:05):
Yeah.
He's not gonna listen to usanyways.

Tom (39:07):
No.
No.
He's a little busy.
He's he's a little busy.
But but seems like a super niceguy, so a favorite one.
Oh, you'd love to have him.

Jeff (39:14):
Absolutely.
Yeah, man.
And we'll pronounce your namecorrectly, whatever it is.

Tom (39:18):
Yeah.
We'll talk to

Jeff (39:19):
you on.

Tom (39:19):
PR person beforehand, make sure we get it

Jeff (39:21):
right.

Tom (39:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So they've got an m twoprocessor in this thing.
So -- Uh-huh.
-- some of the I don't know ifyou saw any of these or not, but
some of the early Mac rumors,nine to five Mac rumor stuff
that they plucked from differentplaces was that it would be
tethered to your phone And Ithink where that may have come

(39:44):
from is ends up you've got thatbattery pack tethered to

Jeff (39:47):
it.
Yes.

Tom (39:48):
So that you can kinda draw the the connection there, but
it's not.
It's and in fact, Apple doesn'tcall this really a headset.
It's a spatial computer.

Jeff (39:57):
Yeah.
Which I kinda like spatialcomputing.
And and that is when you seethe demos, that is exactly what
it is.
You're doing computing asopposed to fighting with virtual
swords in the middle of yourliving.

Tom (40:13):
I mean, that could be fun too.

Jeff (40:15):
Yeah.
You could probably do that withthis.
Yeah.

Tom (40:18):
Yeah.
Probably.
But, you

Jeff (40:19):
know, it's it it the part of the pun.
The vision for this feels waydifferent than any of the other
devices that I've seen.
Again, I've I've not I've beenso not interested in any of
these that I haven't looked at.
Right.
You know, I've I've never put asingle one on.

Tom (40:38):
Like, almost bought a quest .
And how do you mean Oh, youdidn't?
Yeah.
Because I was well, it was moreof a oh, the kids don't listen.
So it was more of a desperationthing I was running out of
ideas for them for Christmas.
And I was like, oh, I couldjust get him a headset.
And so I kinda floated back,hey, what do you guys think
about that?
I tried at a friend's house,not so great.
I was like, damn.
So they're not that idea to go.

(40:59):
So m two processor --

Jeff (41:02):
Mhmm.

Tom (41:02):
-- they have a new chip in there.
Yes.
R one which seems to be thekind of the key piece of that
latency and some of the thingsthat some people experience with
headsets where they become alittle disoriented, a little
notches, and the reports are forfor the folks who were there

(41:25):
got to try for the half hourdemo.
And and let me know if Grubersaid anything about that.
But the guy from nine to fiveMac, Chance Miller did it, and
and this one I thought wasinteresting because he stated in
his write up and again, we'lllink to all this stuff.
That he's very prone to motionsickness, so planes, cars, all
that kind of stuff.
Mhmm.
But he had none whatsoever withthe headset.

(41:48):
In his thirty minute demo.
So I think that's promising.
And some other people said thatthis is the same thing.
Ben Maren reported that as wellthat it was he didn't have any
of that.
And that's because it's sotight on that.
With such low latency that thatreally brings together that

(42:08):
effect of that spatial computingor whatever you wanna call it
because He's like, it'sobviously, it's not as same as
having no screen there, but it'spretty close.
And and and that's part

Jeff (42:21):
of it.

Tom (42:21):
Right?
Because if if the refresh rateon the screens you're looking at
with the latency andeverything, don't, you know,
aren't where they need to be,then you start to it kinda
breaks the illusion.

Jeff (42:31):
Yes.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And according to Gruber, one ofthe things that he said was
that you don't look see itdoesn't seem like you're looking
at screens at all, right, whenyou're inside the headset.
It looks like in in in I'lljust read it verbatim.
It it looks like reality albeitthrough something like a pair
of safety glasses or a largeface covering clear shield.

(42:53):
So no borders, no indicationthat that there is, you know,
anything other than the outsideoutside when you move, it moves
with you.
I think that's where thatdisorientation comes from, just
like you said, the refresh rate.
So there's they're doing super,super high speed video
processing, which make sureunder this is gonna come up to,

(43:14):
you know, end up in otherdevices as well, you know,
develop for this, but show up inother places.

Tom (43:19):
You know, and I'll mention that real quick.
There are so many traces ofother devices that led to this.
Like, it has a digital crown.

Jeff (43:29):
It's like, oh,

Tom (43:30):
where have we seen that?
And and just so it's it's suchan Apple thing, I guess -- Yeah.
-- because they, you know, theycontrol so much of it and so
much of it's custom chips andthings like that.
But but just as an outsiderand, you know, a nerd, it's it's
just kinda cool to see.
Oh, yeah.
Look, you now you can retracethose things.
I'd be like, yeah.

(43:51):
Yeah.
Everything had a reason.

Jeff (43:54):
Yeah.
There's a path.
Yeah.
Always always a path.
Definitely.
So interesting to look at whenyou get yours, I'll try to
visit, call it down.
Yeah.

Tom (44:06):
The wife said I should get it for the podcast.
She's like, how can you talkabout it if you don't have it?

Jeff (44:11):
She's right.
She is.

Tom (44:12):
Of course.
She also says she only liveonce can't take it with you when
you go, and that that's alittle dangerous.

Jeff (44:17):
Right.
Didn't see up the lifeinsurance post.

Tom (44:19):
Yeah.
It's good to go maybe.
Yeah.
And but I'm assuming it'll havethe sweet fourteen day return
policy, so that'll be

Jeff (44:28):
Yeah.
That's that's true.
And and let's also point outthat this thing's not showing up
for basically, I would say,three quarters is is what we're
looking at sometime.
Early in the second quarter oftwenty twenty four.
So think about it, dream aboutit, maybe play with it all you

(44:50):
want.
Yeah.
You you're not gonna get yourhands on one of these.
I don't even know what you want.
Are getting their hands.

Tom (44:55):
Right.
I wonder if they'll get, like,some weird kit of hardware that,
you know, has the the emulatoron it -- Mhmm.
-- and and just do it that way.
Like when they did the AppleSilicon transition, I think they
got remember what they got withthat.
Maybe I'm thinking back to thepower p c to Intel or something.
They've done so many of thesetransitions where they give you
these kinda thrown togetherpieces of hardware.

(45:16):
I had to get you through it.
Good enough for now.
So it gets two hours batterylife has that little battery
that you you take with you,which ain't much, but, you know,

Jeff (45:24):
can be plugged in.
You know, if you're Right.
So if you're sitting watching amovie, you've got the And

Tom (45:29):
you're gonna have a stack of batteries just, you know,
hook up the next one and, youknow, take a break.
I guess, Yeah.
So so you get the two hours.
The thing they said starts atthree thousand four hundred and
ninety nine dollars.

Jeff (45:44):
Mhmm.

Tom (45:46):
If you need the the optical inserts, that'll be some more
money.
Mhmm.

Jeff (45:51):
Mhmm.

Tom (45:52):
So I imagine it's probably a few hundred bucks, couple
hundred bucks three, fourhundred.
I don't know.
But seems like it's gonna besomething that's

Jeff (45:59):
Knowing Apple, it's gonna

Tom (46:00):
This whole experience.
That's what it says.
Yeah.
Use ICE Optical inserts.
So this ain't gonna be cheapwith it being a computer.
Right?
So it's not tied to your phone,it's not tied to anything else.
You know, you can kinda see itokay.
So it starts at thirty fourninety nine.
How much storage do you get?
How much does it matter?

(46:21):
And then you scale up fromthere.
Right?
So if you've got, are theygonna do it like an iPad where
it's sixty four, one hundred andtwenty eight, two fifty six,
five twelve.
So I'm curious to see how thatlooks when they get to that
point.
Like, what configurationoptions do you have?
Like like, how much storagewould you need?
Like, yeah.
Know because you gotta havesome because you got operating

(46:42):
system, you got apps, you havegames, right, because they said
the Apple Arcade stuff will willcome over.
Right.
So I don't know.
Sixty four minimum.

Jeff (46:53):
Maybe here's where I'm wondering whether or not and I I
wondered this at the time thatwe were, you know, we were
watching between the keynotewhether or not this is gonna be
way more tightly integrated withApple's iCloud storage.
So

Tom (47:08):
-- Right.
--

Jeff (47:09):
open up a pages document and it's on demand bang right
there.

Tom (47:13):
Right.

Jeff (47:13):
And as soon as you close it, that stuff gets shooshed
back up too.

Tom (47:18):
It has its own Wi Fi.
I mean, you can't do your WiFi, and you go from there.
So, you know, but, you know, Ican see, hey, I wanna, you know,
store my stuff.
Some of it locally.

Jeff (47:30):
So Locally.

Tom (47:31):
Yeah.
So but at least thirty fivehundred dollars to to get in the
door, But with everything theyhave packed in it, like, I don't
think that's like, it'sexpensive.
Right?
I'm not saying that, but Idon't think it's outrageous.
For for what it is being afirst gen with everything
they've packed into it.
It sounds like from some of theanalysts that It's gonna be

(47:53):
hard to make in large quantitiesanyway for a while because
there's so much new stuff in it.
I think they'll sell everyonethey make easily.
I still and this goes back towhat we've been talking about
for since we well, before westarted doing this show, the
podcast as a whole.
On a regular basis, what wouldI use it for?

Jeff (48:14):
Mhmm.

Tom (48:15):
And I don't know.
I don't they didn't really havethat answer.
In what they show.
They showed a lot ofinteresting things and a lot of
cool things.
I I didn't see, like, thekiller feature.
That was, like, holy crap.
That's a must have at thispoint.
A lot of really good ones.

Jeff (48:30):
Correct.
And and that is a big that's abig question.
I mean, I immediately saw theuse case for an iPhone.
And that was at a point in timewhen I was about ready to say,
you know what?
I don't even need a cell phone.

Tom (48:45):
Right?
Now if you go back So Sincetwenty twenty three, forty years
.
Shit.
You know, he really Were youborn in that for yeah.
I was I was I was I was ten.
Ten or eleven.
But you could kinda say thesame thing for PCs back then.

Jeff (49:04):
Oh, right.
They were very expensive.
Sixty four was around people.
You know, they were a hobbyist.
Nobody needs Right?

Tom (49:09):
It was a hobbyist thing.
Like, you built you got yourparts, you built it, and they
used to have little gloves youwould go to and they would, you
know, you assemble your PC.
There's a bunch of dwarks likeus.
Right?
So but

Jeff (49:21):
You make it fun of me?
Yes.
Okay.
Good.

Tom (49:23):
But myself at the same time .
And so I think this is one ofthose things where it's they're
even I think Apple is kinda like

Jeff (49:31):
Yeah.

Tom (49:31):
I don't know.
And, like, I don't know.
Did you see the clip from, Ithink, good morning America with
Robin Roberts.
She interviewed Tim Cook andshe asked him, you know, this is
a lot of money.
Do you think people will buy it?
And I'm paraphrasing a bit.
And he was straightforward.
He's like, you know, I don'tknow.
It that's gonna be up toeveryone's, you know, individual

(49:53):
financial situation and thingslike that.
We think it's, you know,obviously, worth dealing.
And so I think even them or orthey're still Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's throw that out there.
The watch was kind of the sameway.
Like, they remembered theyshowed all those silly apps in
the like, the series zero andthey even had the edition that

(50:14):
was, like, ten or seventeenthousand dollars, whatever crazy
amount that was.

Jeff (50:17):
Right.
And I think so let's look at me.
Now, I'm not gonna buy one ofthese things out of the box.
It can see no reason to do it.
I did buy an Apple Watch out ofthe box.
That first one and gave it upafter six months.
We've talked about that.
That's been

Tom (50:32):
--

Jeff (50:33):
Yep.
-- been a subject here.
And it was I I had one of thereasons I gave it up, there was
no identifiable value.
Beyond having a watch on mywrist.
And on the occasions that I waswalking someplace and needed on
wrist, directions, which Iliked, it was good for that.

(50:56):
But other than that, it was anannoyance.
You know, that's what it wasfor me.
I have now been wearing the newApple Watch, and I've been
wearing it for six months longerthan that now.
Seven, almost eight months,I've been I've been worrying
that.
And it has added value.

(51:16):
And I think that's exactly whatit is.
It Apple hadn't quite figuredout what the watch was at that
point in time.
And and they have, to a greatextent, figure out what it is
now.

Tom (51:28):
Yeah.
They're locked in

Jeff (51:29):
as more value in that way.
Right?
And I think that's that's gonnabe the VisionPRO as well.
Yeah.
I think there will they'lliterate as they always do.
And they'll figure out a way tomake it make it into something
insanely great.

Tom (51:44):
It's possible.
And it's Yeah.
I think so.

Jeff (51:47):
Like I said, I see that what where I didn't where I
didn't before see any possiblereason.
Why this would be good.
As soon as soon as I saw the UIand what you could actually do
with that UI and the way that itwas there, it wasn't just some,
you know, tech kink.
You know, it wasn't some some,you know, something where you

(52:10):
get to throw it on and be ableto watch stuff.

Tom (52:13):
Stuff.
Stuff.

Jeff (52:15):
Yeah.
So I I I can see the use case.

Tom (52:21):
Right?

Jeff (52:21):
And I'm impressed by that.
Not for me at this point intime, but I can see the use
case, and I'm excited to seewhere it goes.

Tom (52:28):
Yeah.
And I I think MKBHD talked onit too.
I was talking with a guy whoworked about it prior to seeing
his video.
And I think for me personallysomething that I would be very
interested in, thirty fivehundred dollars interested in?
Probably not, but by the timewe get to you know, I don't know
how they're going on.
To to mark the series fourwhatever.

(52:49):
You know, five, six, sevenyears down the road when it's
because they started with theVisionPRO.

Jeff (52:58):
Mhmm.

Tom (52:59):
So that leaves vision vision something, right,

Jeff (53:03):
roll over.

Tom (53:03):
It's gonna be

Jeff (53:04):
three times the size.

Tom (53:05):
Jesus.
God.
And it comes with a neck brace.
And a strap, full body -- Right.
-- decompression strap.
But one of the things thatwould be interesting.
And it's it's the other piecesthat would obviously have to
fall into place with this.
But to be able to virtually buytickets to some event, whether

(53:27):
that's a,

Jeff (53:28):
you know, a concert concert,

Tom (53:31):
you know, baseball game, football game, basketball,
Formula one, whatever it is.
And, you know, at a fraction ofthe price, you would pay to
actually go there because it'snot gonna be the same, but then
get to pick where you wanna sit.
I think today I'll

Jeff (53:44):
sit down.
Don't have anybody spillingtheir beer on you.

Tom (53:46):
Yeah.
Right?
You don't have the drunk assesto deal with.

Jeff (53:49):
But you could still have that Well,

Tom (53:51):
it's more fun at home.
A bit.
And, you know, drug strangersaren't always good.
But but that is compelling.

Jeff (53:59):
Yeah, it is.

Tom (53:59):
Right?
And like he said, I think MKB.
She said, yeah, put mecourtside at the Lakers game for
twenty bucks.
And that's all extra income.
Apple would take their thirtypercent in the rest go over to
the league.

Jeff (54:12):
Yeah.

Tom (54:13):
That would be great.
Heck, that might be good enoughto mostly kill sports.
Like going there in personbecause the experience isn't
good.
Like, I stopped going --

Jeff (54:20):
Right.

Tom (54:20):
-- because it's overpriced.
Parking's overpriced.
People are obnoxious.
You know, I'm getting old toobecause that's probably probably
a cranky old guy yelling at theclouds.

Jeff (54:29):
But there is there

Tom (54:30):
there is that.
Yes.
And I and I won't deny it.
But but that's a compelling usecase I think as they continue,
like, I think that what theyshowed with, like, the Mac
desktop being able to all of asudden, you've got a hundred
inch display you can work on.
Yeah.
Is is interesting.
And, you know, just some of thethings we've already talked
about need to be figured outdown the road to make those a

(54:51):
little more easily and durable Ithink, like, really an extra
rain and eye strain.
Because I think, you know, youput something on your face and
it makes that seal, you're gonnastart to get a little sweaty.

Jeff (55:02):
No.
I didn't know that about

Tom (55:04):
it.
Right.
And it's like, well, how longcan you tolerate that?
Depends.
I mean, if it's you know, andyou start watching movies and
they're they become superrealistic and you start to sweat
even more because you'regetting amped up because of the
movie or the game, you know, isreally intense or whatever.
So I don't know.
It it's interesting.
I think it's gonna be fun towatch.

Jeff (55:22):
Yes.
Definitely that.

Tom (55:24):
And I'll see if I can clear off some space on the app card
and maybe try one for a week andsend it back.

Jeff (55:30):
There you go.
That sounds perfect.

Tom (55:33):
I'll let you know so you can plan your trip.

Jeff (55:35):
Now I'm driving down.
As soon as soon as I'm hoppingin my car, the moment the moment
that you get the notificationthat it's showing up at your
door on driving down.
And and you can buy me dinner

Tom (55:46):
Great.
Great.
I won't have any money left.
So it'd be

Jeff (55:49):
That's okay.

Tom (55:50):
Menu.
Yeah.
McChicken or something.
Great.

Jeff (55:53):
So as the car talk, guys used to say, and actually, to a
guy named Tom, we've done aperfectly good job of wasting
another hour of your time.

Tom (56:03):
We did.
And we appreciate you hangingout with us.

Jeff (56:06):
Yeah.
We do.
We realized that most of youprobably

wasted thirty five minutes.

Tom (56:12):
That's okay.
I feel like this is kind of ourown little therapy sessions to
an extent.

Jeff (56:16):
You and me, Tom.
Yeah.
We're besties.
Well, that's

Tom (56:19):
what we are.

Jeff (56:19):
You say one once every two weeks.
Right.
It's nice to see your face.
Yeah.
I'm gonna go pull another headout of the freezer.

Tom (56:27):
Jesus.
God.
That got dark.
Alright.

Jeff (56:32):
Alright.
As a reminder, If you want tocontact us and we'd really love
it.
If you do, you can hit us up atfeedback at basic a f show dot
com or on the web you can seeall of everything we have at
basic a f show dot com.
Tom, people can reach you at

Tom (56:51):
Tommy Anderson on Twitter, tommy patterson dot com on the
web.
That's

Jeff (56:56):
about it.
And you'll find me atraisepoint on Twitter and at
raisepoint dot s d f dotmastodon dot whatever the heck
it is on Mastodon.
Just a reminder, you would dous a great bit of favor if you
made sure to subscribe to us onApple Podcasts and like our

(57:19):
podcast there as well.

Tom (57:21):
Yes.
Leave a rating because we'vestayed consistent.
We mentioned this last show.
We've get we get one rating pershow.
That's a rough We

Jeff (57:28):
did another one.

Tom (57:29):
And I think this is show eleven.

Jeff (57:31):
This is show eleven.
And by the way, my favoritenumber, my soccer jersey,
basketball jersey all the waythrough.
High school.
Currently, even is numbereleven.

Tom (57:39):
Oh.
So somebody has

Jeff (57:41):
We've done something good.
Themusic by psychokinetics in areminder that the front man or
one of the front people forpsychokinetics CLC seven has a
new album album out.
We'll have a link to that inthe in the show notes.
All our podcast a podcastpodcast Our hard cashed artwork
is by Randall Martin design.
I'm a hot mess.

(58:03):
Thank god.
Nobody listens to the end ofthis.
Yeah.
So Randall does great work.
Yes.
We hope you go check out whathe what he does, and we probably
should do him a favor.
And mister Celsius seven afavor.
Push those notes to the frontof the show.
Alright.
Tell me.

Tom (58:22):
Alright.
Is that it?
My friend?

Jeff (58:23):
We burned another hour.

Tom (58:25):
We did.
Thanks again everyone for beinghere and being part of this
with us.
If you have any questions onany of this new stuff, come out
or if you've throwing the betason and got any feedback on that,
let us know.
Otherwise, have a good rest ofyour day.
Good rest of your night, and wewill talk to you next time.

Jeff (58:41):
See you.

I don't wanna know what legitimate factions do, but
for the least you wanna try tostill sell how you improve
because at the moment, how youmove on.
I'm just like you.
That goes fast.

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