April 4, 2026 • 33 mins
"I Care About Where You're Going, Not Where You've Been" — Pastor Mark Lantz of Christian Center Church
What do you do with a past full of mistakes, regret, and shame? According to Pastor Mark Lantz of Christian Center Church in South Bend, Indiana — you use it as a platform.
In this episode of B.A.S.I.C. Conversations, Brother Boston sits down with Pastor Mark for a raw and Spirit-filled conversation about grace, calling, and what it really means to build a church for people who think they don't belong. Pastor Mark shares how God ordered his steps from a youth camp altar call at 17 to leading one of South Bend's most diverse and welcoming congregations — and why he believes your past doesn't define you, but the grace of God does.
They dig into what it takes to deliver an uncompromising, soul-stirring message every single week, why the altar call is one of the most missing elements in today's church, and what advice Pastor Mark would give to any ministry venturing out to reach the forgotten and overlooked.
If you've ever felt too broken, too far gone, or too ashamed to be used by God — this episode is for you.
In this episode:
- How Pastor Mark answered the call to ministry at 17
- Building a church that looks a little like heaven
- Preparing a message that feeds the heart, not just the head
- Why your testimony is your greatest ministry tool
- Psalm 37:23 and the scripture that has anchored Pastor Mark for decades
- His closing word to his younger self — and to you
"I care about where you're going, not where you've been." — Pastor Mark Lantz
Connect with Christian Center Church: https://www.christiancenter.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Welcome to Basic Conversations.
I'm your host, Brother Boston.
My guest today serves as thesenior pastor of Christian
Center Church right here inSouth Bend, Indiana.
His mission is simple butpowerful to help people reach
their full potential throughfaith in Jesus Christ.
He's the author of How toElevate Your Life, the director
(00:29):
of World Harvest MinistriesNetwork, and a weekly presence
on the Harvest Show on La SeeBroadcasting.
He and his wife Crystal lead achurch with a heart for people
who feel that they don't belong.
Dr.
Mark Lance, welcome to BasicConversations.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Thank you, Kevin.
It's an honor to be with you.
I'm really looking forward toour conversation today, and I
appreciate the great work thatyou're doing and the ministry
God's given to you.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Man, thank you so much.
And I just want the listeners toknow, man, this is our third
attempt at doing this.
You know, the enemy always triesto prevent God's word and
testimony from going forth, andhe'll do it in any way he can.
We've had technical difficultiesand then, you know, funerals
that the pastor had to handle.
(01:20):
A lot of things just kept comingup.
Life happens, as we all know.
And so uh I just want to thankyou for again.
This is three times a charm.
So let's let's get into it, man.
Tell me a little bit about howyou even got involved with
ministry and eventually intoleading a church here in South
Bend, Indiana.
unknown (01:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Well, I was uh I was saved at a very young age when I
was seven.
That's when I was born again.
And just growing up, I had thegreat privilege of growing up in
a great household with a mom anddad that took me to church on a
regular basis.
But when I was 17 years old, Iwas at a youth camp in Lorraine,
Ohio.
And I remember specificallyafter one of the night services
(02:02):
at the altar where I waspraying, I knew God touched me.
And I knew it was one of thosesupernatural moments where you
know the Spirit of God has ledyou in a certain direction.
And that moment I knew that Iwas called to preach.
Now, in what capacity, I reallydidn't know, but from that
moment, that was the calling onmy life.
And so from there I uh went intoBible college, graduated from
(02:24):
Bible college, began to work insome Christian education
ministry, which then led us intopastoring.
And ironically, we ended uppastoring the very same church
of the youth camp where I wascalled when I was 17.
So it was neat how God broughtus back kind of to the roots of
our calling, and we pastoredthere until 2005, and then we
(02:45):
moved back here into this area.
And it was neat how the Lordeven worked in the ways of
getting us to where we are now,because when we moved back, I
didn't immediately go intoanother ministry.
So I was looking for a, youknow, just a job to be able to
support my family.
And I thought, well, if I'mgoing to work, I might as well
work in a in a Christianorganization.
(03:06):
And I knew of Dr.
Summerall, but didn't know muchabout, you know, the ministry.
So I randomly got on their thewebsite of Lisse Broadcasting,
saw that they were hiring forsalespeople, which I'd never
sold anything in my life.
I'm not a salesman, but uh, butI went in, got an interview, got
a second interview, and thesales manager looked at me and
(03:27):
she said, You know, you have noexperience.
She said, But for some reason, Ifeel like I need to hire you.
And I don't feel like that wasjust an emotion.
That was the hand of God becausethat was the bridge that got us
connected to the church here andled us to where we are right
now.
And so I just I say thatbecause, you know, the steps of
a good man are ordered by theLord.
(03:47):
And I believe things don't justhappen randomly in the house in
the in the life of a child ofGod.
God orders everything thathappens.
And so that's yeah, that's kindof the journey of how we got
called to ministry and to wherewe are now.
SPEAKER_01 (04:01):
Yeah, that's incredible.
And when you're saying we, is isthis you speaking of your wife,
your your better half, or yourother half?
I like to call mine my betterhalf because we know that she is
definitely the better half.
SPEAKER_00 (04:14):
Yeah, I totally agree on my end as well.
Yeah, my wife and I have beenmarried June 1st, it'll be 34
years.
And we yes, so no, 35 years.
Sorry, third 35 years.
So we got four four greatchildren, and I'm so proud uh,
you know, of my kids.
And and uh so yeah, we've we'vebeen in this we from from the
beginning, as far as you know,doing doing ministry together.
SPEAKER_01 (04:38):
Are your kids involved with uh the church
business that goes on in anyway?
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
Yeah, my my daughter is the creative director here at
the church, and so she she runsall the creative parts of
ministry as far as media, video,social media, you know, those
kind of things.
My oldest two sons, they work,they work other jobs.
My youngest son is is learningthe video part of uh ministry,
and I'd I'd love to see him getinvolved, you know, once he gets
(05:06):
that under his belt.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's I mean, you can'tbeat that, having your kids
working with you, your wifealongside you.
Like that's a such a blessing inand of itself, especially the
way the world can, you know,what I see and what I've
experienced myself is that theworld will be very quick to
divide and split a family up inmany different ways through
(05:30):
temptation, through you know,career goals, and you know, all
of this stuff.
So that's what I see when wewhen my wife and I go to that
church and we see your wife andyour daughter's up on the the
control board and doing allthat.
I'm like, dude, what talk abouta blessing from God?
If nothing else ever came out ofyour serving God, like you can't
(05:54):
really ask for more.
Just their love for Jesusthrough your example is a pretty
incredible.
Um, one thing, so for thelisteners, I've been going to
this church now for about ayear.
I have been following Christ forabout seven years.
I despised religion, I despisedanything that had to do with
(06:17):
something outside of anythingthat was had a uh a figure of
power, court systems, you know,police, all of that.
At a young age, I was arrestedat nine.
So I always had this likeauthority, stay away.
And I always, driving bychurches, always saw what
appeared to me as perfect peoplewho don't understand what
(06:37):
brokenness is and this and that,like dignitaries.
And so I would stay, stay awayfrom it as far as as far back as
I could.
And when I came to your church,I was blown away.
Like one of the videos that wasshown is was a brother who had
just come from home from prison,is now running a ministry uh
there at the church, and thatjust blew my mind.
(07:00):
I said, Oh, these are some realChristians in this place.
And so tell me about that.
Like, how did you get involvedwith like people who are just as
impacted?
A lot of a lot of organizationsand churches won't even touch
that, like they'll you know,keep their distance just to
maintain this like outwardappearance of we are you know
(07:20):
flawless and perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (07:23):
You know, I feel like it's God giving everybody
has a different approach toministry, and for whatever
reason, the Lord has given us aheart for those that have come
out of difficult situations,whatever that might be, whether
that's incarceration, brokenmarriages, broken homes,
traumatized childhoods.
I I realize life is not it's notperfect.
(07:44):
You know, life happens and weall make mistakes, including
myself.
I've made major mistakes in mylife.
But yet at the same time, I knowwe serve a God of mercy.
You know, Jesus came to heal thebrokenhearted, he came to preach
deliverance to the captives.
You know, when he stood in thesynagogue after he came out of
the wilderness, that was hisfirst message.
(08:05):
He quoted from Isaiah, said theLord hath anointed me for this
reason.
And I feel like God has enabledus and given us a heart for
people that have come out ofbroken situations or traumatized
past or coming out of mistakesthat they've made and realize
that's not the end of theirjourney.
And our past does not define us,but rather it's the grace of God
(08:26):
that defines us.
And the Lord has led us intothat.
And I feel like if you look atour church, you will see a
reflection of that.
You'll see a picture of that.
You'll see diversity not only ofculture, race, background,
economic status.
And I feel that's the body ofChrist because that's what
heaven looks like.
Heaven, you know, is a diversityof people that have come from
(08:48):
all backgrounds.
And so my approach to ministryis for our church to look a
little bit like heaven and tohave that diversity and to be
able to reach people no matterwhere they are.
And I've I've said this often,and I firmly believe this.
I really don't care where you'vebeen, I just want to know where
you're going because it's fromthis point that's what matters
most.
It's the the choices that youmake from now.
(09:10):
That's what's going to defineyou as a person.
So that's been our heart, that'sbeen our passion and our burden,
and that's the way that weapproach ministry, and that's
kind of the core of our messageis that message of restoration
and reconciliation anddeliverance and being able to
get up from where you are andmove forward and see God do
something great in your life.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
Yeah, man, that's that's beautiful.
If only everybody could sharethat same principle, that same
thought process.
Um, it's kind of it's kind ofcrazy when I think about what
God has done in my life, knowingwhere I have come from.
(09:53):
And like, you know, a lot oftimes when I'm talking to
people, and when I used to golive on other platforms and
stuff, my my goal was to likereach them people because just
like I was, I thought God didn'twant nothing to do with me, He
couldn't use me, I was toobroken, I've made too many
(10:14):
horrible choices, and that I wasirredeemable.
Uh, and I know that that isalive from the pit of hell.
Um, and so like when you do comeacross that, like you basically
just said it.
It's not about what you've done,it's where you're at right now
and where you're heading, right?
Right.
(10:34):
Um exactly, yeah, and to try toget that through people's heads,
I hear it in your message everyweek, every single week.
I am this is this is why I knowI'm where I'm supposed to be.
I am convicted, I am uplifted,and I am not being fed some
(10:55):
watered down uh uh man-winning,like you're winning souls,
you're not winning people.
Um, and that is what I love, butbeing able to find the balance
between grace and truth, so youdon't deliver one more than the
other, that is something that Ibelieve only comes from the Holy
(11:18):
Spirit.
When we talk about peoplepreparing for messages and the
little tiny bit of messages thatI've delivered in the past, and
I prayed, man.
I was petrified, I didn't wantto, but God made it very clear
this is what I want you to do.
And so, like through obedience,I got through it and the message
(11:39):
was delivered.
But there was preparation, therewas fasting, there was studying,
there was a lot of prayer.
Um, what does that look like foryou?
You're you're delivering a firemessage every single week that
is not watered down, and mostdefinitely, if your heart is not
(12:00):
pricked after you leave one ofthese messages, then you might
have had an ear pod in orsomething and you were listening
to something else.
Because I don't know how that'seven possible.
But what is what is somethingyou do when you're about to
prepare a message?
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
Well, to me to me, the most important thing is is
to know that I am deliveringwhat God wants these people to
hear.
You know, it's not about me orany other preacher, it's about
God, what do you want to say toyour people?
And that's when I pray, that'swhat I ask.
That's what I go to the Lord.
I say, God, what do you wantyour people to hear?
(12:38):
I want them to receive exactlythe heart of God.
And of course, his heart isrevealed through the word of
God.
And so, yeah, I will and Ipreach in series a lot.
I, you know, both on the midweekas well as the Sunday, I will
choose a series or ask God forwhat direction we want to go,
feel a certain direction, andthen through prayer, ask God,
(13:00):
what are the specific thingsthat you want to say, and then
do a lot of research as well,obviously, through preparation,
through study, through writing,through editing, and all of
that, you know, to make surethat I am delivering the content
that is not only feeding thehead, but most importantly
feeding the heart.
You know, I want to make surethat it's accurate, I want to
(13:21):
make sure that it is relevant.
And to me, Kevin, the mostimportant thing then comes at
the altar where we take what Godhas spoken to us through the
word, and we come to the altarand we make it real.
And I think that's what'smissing in a lot of churches.
The altar service is no longer,you know, relevant to many
churches.
They'll deliver a word and thensay a benediction, and everybody
(13:45):
goes home.
I think there needs to be a timewhere we come and spend moments
in the presence of God saying,Lord, now speak to me.
What word has been delivered?
Now speak to me.
Help me to apply, to assimilatethis word into my life so that I
can become better.
And that, of course, only comesthrough the Holy Spirit because
(14:06):
He is the guide of truth.
He is the one that not just thecomforter, but He's also the
convictor.
He's the one that brings tolight those things.
And so that's why to me, thealtar service, that's the most
important part of any time thatwe gather together.
So that's that's kind of myprocess.
It takes, yes, it takes time.
(14:26):
You know, it takes time writing,like I said, editing and making
sure that I deliver the contentthat God wants these people to
hear.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Yeah, it's it's we we were so blessed.
We were, I'm not even gonna lie,on our way here from California,
we go to a church that isliterally started by men who
were formerly incarcerated, andwe're talking hundreds of years
between the whole crew, and uhand they are on fire for God.
(14:55):
Every other church I went to andvisited was like, you know, a
motivational speech with alittle bit of sprinkling of you
know, half of a sentence ofscripture.
No getting down into the wordand why they were writing this
that time, and how does it applythese days?
(15:17):
And you know, why does it notnot apply these days?
And you know, um, so whenfinding all these other churches
where I'm like, I what was thatgreat show, like very
interesting motivational speech,but like where's the where
where's the word?
And so when we came here, wewere praying for that to find a
(15:40):
church, and her mom had said,This guy's on fire, like you
know, this is a little you know,little mom.
And and when we first came tothe to the service, man, I I was
I was floored.
I was I was definitely hit withthe spirit, and I said, Oh,
okay, all right, we're safe,we're good.
Um, so yeah, so it was ablessing immediately.
(16:04):
The whole one of the things thatalways gets me, right?
So I started a ministry in LA.
This is soon after my wife and Ihad gotten married.
My wife and I, I don't know ifyou knew this, knew each other
for two months online, and thenwe got married in person the
first time we met.
So we yeah, and then for thenext nine months, we
(16:26):
communicated via FaceTime, andthat was it.
So shout out to FaceTime.
Um, and FaceTime kept usverbally, spiritually, praying
together, reading the word longdistance.
I was in LA, she was in Indiana,and we're back and forth, and
we're building this relationshipbackwards compared to what I had
built it on in the past.
(16:48):
Uh, it was completely different.
And so, but then there was thishey, God wants me to start a
ministry, the basic ministry.
Oh, okay.
And so there was a lot of timeswhere um her trusting in me
almost became an issue.
It was like, no, you gotta justtrust me.
This is what God like, you know,and and I had been in such a in
(17:13):
tune with him that there wasnothing, I don't care who you
are, you ain't telling me whathe said and didn't say because
he'd already given me theassignment.
And so that would bring upfriction sometimes and
confrontation.
How has that been for 35?
Like you're coming on 35 yearsof marriage, which is
mind-blowing to me in and ofitself.
35 years of marriage.
(17:34):
How has that been with the thewife and the family and you
know, God's calling you here,God's calling you there?
And I've talked to other pastorsand they've said, you know, it
can be a challenge.
Or what does that look like foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
Sure.
Well, I appreciate you knowevery decision that we've made
in changing locations ofministry where God's called us.
You know, my my wife has beenvery, she's been she's been
supportive.
And not not to say again thatthere's not been those moments
and I've not always done itright.
I know that for a fact.
I'm not saying that I have, butshe's been, she's been an
(18:11):
excellent, excellent mother toour children, wife, and support
and ministry.
And I'm telling you, I just wantto say this, Kevin, because I
feel like, you know, many timespastors, because they're the
ones preaching every Sunday,that many times their wives
aren't recognized for theministry that they have.
And my wife, I believe, has aunique anointing on her where
(18:35):
people are just drawn to her.
And no, it may not be likepreaching a Sunday message, but
she has such a way ofcommunicating to people that
they are just drawn to her.
In fact, I I can't tell you howmany times we've been someplace
where a complete stranger willcome up to her and literally
(18:56):
pour their life story out to herand then walk away saying, I
don't know why I just said allthat, but I feel like that's
that's a special anointing.
It really is.
And so, yeah, I feel like itcomes to the point that when God
is in it and God is moving you,you know, obviously scripture
said these two shall become oneflesh.
(19:17):
And I feel like God will move onboth of you.
And yeah, there will have to beconversations and there may be
disagreements, but at the end ofthe day, I feel like as you
submit to God and submit, youknow, your plan to his plan and
allow Holy Spirit to do thatwork, you know, those conflicts
(19:38):
can be resolved and you're ableto, you know, move ahead into
the ministry God's called you tobe able to move into.
So it has to be a work of HolySpirit.
We know that it can't be aman-made, you can't force
anybody, whether it's marriageor any other relationship, you
can't force anybody to seethings the way you see them.
You know, it's a supernaturalwork of the Holy Spirit, and you
(19:59):
have to allow him to do the workthat you and I, we can't do
that.
He's got to be the one to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Amen.
Amen.
I couldn't agree more.
And I just want to say this mywife, too, Molly.
Yeah, she there's no strangersto her.
Uh it's like we're in the middleof a supermarket, and it's like,
okay, can we get going?
So yeah, yeah.
That's a blessing, man.
That's a blessing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (20:26):
Um, I mean, after all, we are all human beings,
you know.
And I think I think pastors areput on such a high, under a
finer scope, I guess, becausethere's expectations are greater
and they're being watched more.
And, you know, that whole thatwhole thing.
(20:46):
So people love to try to find agood Christian pastor and tear
them down if they can.
They want to, you know, findthat flaw, find the weak spot,
and bring them down to theirlevel.
Um, so beautiful.
Thank you.
And okay, so I'm gonna shift ita little bit, right?
So I have some I've mentionedthis before.
(21:06):
My brother's out in California,they're formerly incarcerated
now.
They have started a churchcalled Truthbearer International
Ministries.
They're in Northern Californiaand Southern California, just
getting the ball rolling.
It's been a couple years now.
Um, incredible messages, which Iwill probably shoot you a link
sometime because it would begreat to have them as one of
(21:28):
them as a guest here at the atthe church.
But that's something, you know,I'm planting planting the seed,
hopefully.
So what would you say to them asthey venture off?
Right now, they rent thebuilding from another church,
and they just, you know, use itand preach every week.
And they are like again, soldout.
It is a group of brothers thathas truly transformed how God
(21:52):
has used them to help shape andmold me, transform me.
And I am not perfect.
I am so frustrated.
Far from it, but you should haveseen me before.
So that's what I that's what Ialways like to say.
You think it's you think I'm alittle rough around the edges
right now, go back, you know, 10years and you'll see what God
has actually done.
(22:14):
Um so what would you say to themas they're venturing off and
getting involved in this andtrying to reach the masses with
the gospel of Jesus Christ?
Advice.
SPEAKER_00 (22:25):
You know, I would say number one, stay true to the
mission God's given to you.
Don't allow other churches orother ministries to influence
you from being from reallypursuing the mission of
preaching the gospel.
Stay true to simply preachingthe gospel.
You know, Paul said it's thegospel, that's the power unto
(22:46):
salvation.
And there's a lot of tricks, alot of, you know, a lot of
marketing strategies, a lot ofthings that are in the church
world that people are using toattract, you know, crowds and
get people to come in.
And I would say all of that isfluff.
Stay true to the mission, staytrue to the gospel.
And don't, here's the here's theother thing is don't be ashamed
(23:08):
of where you've come from.
You know, all of us have thingsthat we've done in our life that
we have regretted.
All of us have made mistakes,and there's things we wish we
could go back and undo.
But the fact of the matter is,Paul said this.
He said, he said, brothers, I'venot count myself, I count not
myself to have apprehended.
He said, but this one thing Ido, I'm forgetting those things
(23:29):
which are behind.
Now, that doesn't mean he hadamnesia.
That means he's not allowingthose things which are behind
him to influence where he was.
You know, and I think all of ushave a past, and we need to be
able to say, you know what?
I'm not going to just ignorethat.
I'm going to say God hasdelivered me from that and has
used even some of the mistakesI've made, has turned that
(23:53):
around and use that.
What the enemy meant for evil,God, you've used it now for
good.
That can be the launch pad to agreater level of ministry.
So I guess I'm saying is thatyes, we regret what we've done,
but thank God for his gracethat's forgiven us.
And now let's take what we'vedone, use it as a platform to be
(24:14):
able to build a testimony andsay, if God did it for me, he
can do it for you.
If God redeemed me out of this,he can redeem you out of this.
And I feel like for yourbrothers there that are building
your church, I feel like that'sa strong platform they need to
stand on.
You know, the the what God hasbrought them out of and continue
to stay true to the word.
(24:36):
Don't be influenced by all ofthe, again, tricks that are out
there that other churches andministries are using.
Stay true to who you are, staytrue to the word of God.
Don't let your past become a youknow a shameful thing, but let
it be a platform, build aministry on it as far as the
grace of God, and I think you'regonna reach a lot more people
(24:58):
that way.
SPEAKER_01 (25:00):
Praise God, man.
So y'all heard that, brothers,because I know y'all are gonna
be listening.
So um, man, yeah, you just hitme too.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for that.
I've been, you know, honestly,Pastor, I've been trying to find
my way.
Find find where where you wantme, God.
What do you want me to do?
(25:20):
And, you know, full of things inthe past that are just riddling
me with trying to riddle me withshame and guilt and regret and
like that whole it's like beingchained to the Empire State
Building and trying to cross thestreet.
You just can't.
You can't I can't move furtherif I continue to allow that
chain to be there.
(25:41):
And I know that for some daysit's good, some days it's bad.
And I know I'm not alone.
I know there's plenty of peoplewho deal with the same thing,
and it's like this tug of war,and that's why so many times you
you hear it daily pick up mycross, you know.
Yes, daily.
Yeah, so just incredible.
And when I think about thescriptures, and you just brought
(26:02):
up don't be ashamed, andimmediately my like one of I
have two scriptures that arelike my go-to's.
One, I am not ashamed of thegospel of Jesus Christ, where
there's a power of God as tosalvation as to anybody who
believes, and that in and ofitself spoke everything you just
(26:22):
said.
Like it literally tells me whocares about your past.
And when knowing that God hasalready taken certain situations
and circumstances in my life,turned him from a stumbling
block into a stepping stone, andthat things happened that I
could never it wouldn't itdidn't even cross my mind,
(26:45):
wasn't even on the table as apossibility, because he is so
far greater than what we reallyunderstand.
What is that's my next question?
What is your go-to book orscripture?
Like when you're you've got somedowntime, which probably never
happens, but when you've gotsome downtime and you know,
(27:08):
you're kicking back and you'rein your word, and you know,
there's something that that'scomforting to you, what it what
would that be?
SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
Yeah, there's a lot.
I I you know, I would say thescripture that has really been
kind of my life scripture sinceI was 21 years old is Psalm 37.
Psalm 37, 23.
And the reason, and it well,I'll quote the scripture, the
steps of a good man are orderedby the Lord, and he delights in
his way.
Though he fall, he shall not beutterly cast down, for the Lord
(27:40):
upholdeth him with his hand.
I was 21 years old, goingthrough a tough time.
I was a kind of an assistantpastor at a church in
Louisville, Kentucky.
And one of the one of the Biblecollege professors was traveling
with a group of students that Ihad graduated from, and they
were traveling through the verycity that I was in Louisville,
Kentucky, and they stopped.
And the professor walked over tome and said, Mark, I feel like
(28:02):
God gave me a word for you.
And he gave me that word, and itwas right on time, in season,
and it spoke deeply to me.
And really that's what's, youknow, that's what's kept me
through all the years, throughall the mistakes, through all
the things, you know, that I'vehad to learn through life and
through ministry.
That I always come back to thatscripture because I feel like,
yes, my steps are being orderedby the Lord.
(28:25):
And even if I do fall, even if Ido, you know, step out of his
will or maybe step out of line,he shall not be utterly cast
down.
I can always get back up becausethe Lord is upholding me with
his hand.
And that, and then Philippians1, where Paul said, I'm
confident of this very thingthat he which hath begun a good
work in you will perform ituntil the day of Jesus Christ.
(28:49):
And I'm convinced God's done awork, you know, started a work
in me, he started a work in you,started a work in everybody
that's listening to this podcastright now.
And so if God started it, thenhe's gonna be faithful that no
matter what comes between startand finish, he's gonna be
faithful to do what it takes toget you to that finish line.
And I I stand on that.
(29:10):
I do, because again, you know,life throws curveballs at you.
Things happen.
We, you know, we make mistakes,but in spite of all of that, the
work of God in my life is gonnacontinue on.
So those those are kind of two,you know, go-to scriptures for
me.
I guess a third one would bePhilippians three, what if I've
already quoted it.
You know, Paul said, I'mforgetting those things which
(29:30):
are behind, I'm reaching forthto those things which are
before, and I'm gonna presstoward the mark.
And I think that's uh that'swhere what you just said is
important.
Taking up your cross daily.
It's a daily pressing, it's adaily, I'm gonna move forward,
I'm gonna press on, I'm gonnakeep, I'm gonna keep believing
no matter what.
It's a daily decision that youhave to make.
You can't make it one time andexpect it to last the rest of
(29:53):
your life.
It's every day I get up.
Okay, God, today I'm pressingon.
I don't care how I feel, I don'tcare what I've gone through, I'm
pressing on, and I'm believingthat I'm gonna reach that market
and get that price for the highcalling.
SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
Man, amen.
You ain't joking.
You are not every time we talk,I get fired up.
SPEAKER_00 (30:13):
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
Ready to grab my word and go hit the streets.
So we have come to the closing,and I ask every guest, Pastor,
first of all, man, thank you somuch again for this.
This man has this is the thirdattempt, y'all.
I just wanted to throw that outthere again.
But the question I close with isif you could go back and talk to
(30:34):
your younger self, what wouldyou say?
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
I would definitely tell myself that number one,
surround yourself with peoplethat have done things you've
never done, gone places you'venever gone, and learn from them.
Surround yourself with bettermentors, leaders, people to
speak into your life.
And as you get into ministry andleadership, surround yourself
(31:02):
with people that are how can Isay this, people that are highly
qualified and that you are ableto surround yourself with
quality people, quality leaders.
Because what what I found is alot of us, including myself, you
know, we like to, if we hiresomebody or we build a team, you
(31:25):
know, we like to sometimes feellike, okay, well, I'm at the
top, so I've got to be kind ofbetter than everybody.
And I've learned I can't dothat.
I've got to hire people that arebetter than I am, I've got to
hire people that know stuff thatI don't know.
And so I would definitely, thatwould be the piece of advice
that I would tell my youngerself going into life, going into
leadership, and going intoministry.
SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, Pastor Man, thank you somuch again for your time.
I'm very grateful uh that thislooks like it went off without a
hitch.
We're about to find out.
And so, yeah, would you mindpraying us out and and maybe
inviting anybody to if theyhaven't given them their their
(32:07):
lives to Jesus?
unknown (32:08):
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (32:09):
Man, join us, join us on this mission, join the
body of Christ.
It is the best thing you can dofor yourself, y'all.
SPEAKER_00 (32:15):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, if you've not yet madeJesus your Savior, I'm telling
you, this is the moment.
And it's as simple as justconfessing your sin to the Lord
and just saying, God, I needyou.
I need you in my life.
And so I'm gonna pray with youright now.
Father, what a blessing to be inyour presence.
What a blessing to know that youare Lord.
And today I pray for everybodylistening to this podcast, Holy
(32:37):
Spirit, that you would justreach them at the depth of their
spirit.
And Lord, if they don't knowyou, that they would cry out to
you.
They would cry out in humility,they would cry out in surrender
and say, Jesus, forgive me of mysin.
Come into my life.
I receive the grace that you'vegiven.
And Lord, I just pray thateverybody listening to this
(32:57):
podcast would realize that youare there with them right now,
no matter where they are, nomatter what they've done, you're
with them right now and are ableto pick them up and be able to
set their feet on a rock solidin you, Lord.
They can walk forward from thismoment.
And I pray blessing over Kevin.
And Lord, this podcast, I thankyou for his heart, his ministry.
(33:20):
I pray increased anointing inhis life.
Lord, let it continue to buildand grow.
And Father, we give it to you inJesus' name we're gonna thank
you, Pastor.
SPEAKER_01 (33:34):
All right, y'all.
Y'all heard it here on BasicConversations.
Thanks for tapping in.
Tune in next time.
Welcome to Basic Conversations.
I'm your host, Brother Boston.
My guest today serves as thesenior pastor of Christian
Center Church right here inSouth Bend, Indiana.
His mission is simple butpowerful to help people reach
their full potential throughfaith in Jesus Christ.
He's the author of How toElevate Your Life, the director
(00:29):
of World Harvest MinistriesNetwork, and a weekly presence
on the Harvest Show on La SeeBroadcasting.
He and his wife Crystal lead achurch with a heart for people
who feel that they don't belong.
Dr.
Mark Lance, welcome to BasicConversations.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Thank you, Kevin.
It's an honor to be with you.
I'm really looking forward toour conversation today, and I
appreciate the great work thatyou're doing and the ministry
God's given to you.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Man, thank you so much.
And I just want the listeners toknow, man, this is our third
attempt at doing this.
You know, the enemy always triesto prevent God's word and
testimony from going forth, andhe'll do it in any way he can.
We've had technical difficultiesand then, you know, funerals
that the pastor had to handle.
(01:20):
A lot of things just kept comingup.
Life happens, as we all know.
And so uh I just want to thankyou for again.
This is three times a charm.
So let's let's get into it, man.
Tell me a little bit about howyou even got involved with
ministry and eventually intoleading a church here in South
Bend, Indiana.
unknown (01:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Well, I was uh I was saved at a very young age when I
was seven.
That's when I was born again.
And just growing up, I had thegreat privilege of growing up in
a great household with a mom anddad that took me to church on a
regular basis.
But when I was 17 years old, Iwas at a youth camp in Lorraine,
Ohio.
And I remember specificallyafter one of the night services
(02:02):
at the altar where I waspraying, I knew God touched me.
And I knew it was one of thosesupernatural moments where you
know the Spirit of God has ledyou in a certain direction.
And that moment I knew that Iwas called to preach.
Now, in what capacity, I reallydidn't know, but from that
moment, that was the calling onmy life.
And so from there I uh went intoBible college, graduated from
(02:24):
Bible college, began to work insome Christian education
ministry, which then led us intopastoring.
And ironically, we ended uppastoring the very same church
of the youth camp where I wascalled when I was 17.
So it was neat how God broughtus back kind of to the roots of
our calling, and we pastoredthere until 2005, and then we
(02:45):
moved back here into this area.
And it was neat how the Lordeven worked in the ways of
getting us to where we are now,because when we moved back, I
didn't immediately go intoanother ministry.
So I was looking for a, youknow, just a job to be able to
support my family.
And I thought, well, if I'mgoing to work, I might as well
work in a in a Christianorganization.
(03:06):
And I knew of Dr.
Summerall, but didn't know muchabout, you know, the ministry.
So I randomly got on their thewebsite of Lisse Broadcasting,
saw that they were hiring forsalespeople, which I'd never
sold anything in my life.
I'm not a salesman, but uh, butI went in, got an interview, got
a second interview, and thesales manager looked at me and
(03:27):
she said, You know, you have noexperience.
She said, But for some reason, Ifeel like I need to hire you.
And I don't feel like that wasjust an emotion.
That was the hand of God becausethat was the bridge that got us
connected to the church here andled us to where we are right
now.
And so I just I say thatbecause, you know, the steps of
a good man are ordered by theLord.
(03:47):
And I believe things don't justhappen randomly in the house in
the in the life of a child ofGod.
God orders everything thathappens.
And so that's yeah, that's kindof the journey of how we got
called to ministry and to wherewe are now.
SPEAKER_01 (04:01):
Yeah, that's incredible.
And when you're saying we, is isthis you speaking of your wife,
your your better half, or yourother half?
I like to call mine my betterhalf because we know that she is
definitely the better half.
SPEAKER_00 (04:14):
Yeah, I totally agree on my end as well.
Yeah, my wife and I have beenmarried June 1st, it'll be 34
years.
And we yes, so no, 35 years.
Sorry, third 35 years.
So we got four four greatchildren, and I'm so proud uh,
you know, of my kids.
And and uh so yeah, we've we'vebeen in this we from from the
beginning, as far as you know,doing doing ministry together.
SPEAKER_01 (04:38):
Are your kids involved with uh the church
business that goes on in anyway?
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
Yeah, my my daughter is the creative director here at
the church, and so she she runsall the creative parts of
ministry as far as media, video,social media, you know, those
kind of things.
My oldest two sons, they work,they work other jobs.
My youngest son is is learningthe video part of uh ministry,
and I'd I'd love to see him getinvolved, you know, once he gets
(05:06):
that under his belt.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's I mean, you can'tbeat that, having your kids
working with you, your wifealongside you.
Like that's a such a blessing inand of itself, especially the
way the world can, you know,what I see and what I've
experienced myself is that theworld will be very quick to
divide and split a family up inmany different ways through
(05:30):
temptation, through you know,career goals, and you know, all
of this stuff.
So that's what I see when wewhen my wife and I go to that
church and we see your wife andyour daughter's up on the the
control board and doing allthat.
I'm like, dude, what talk abouta blessing from God?
If nothing else ever came out ofyour serving God, like you can't
(05:54):
really ask for more.
Just their love for Jesusthrough your example is a pretty
incredible.
Um, one thing, so for thelisteners, I've been going to
this church now for about ayear.
I have been following Christ forabout seven years.
I despised religion, I despisedanything that had to do with
(06:17):
something outside of anythingthat was had a uh a figure of
power, court systems, you know,police, all of that.
At a young age, I was arrestedat nine.
So I always had this likeauthority, stay away.
And I always, driving bychurches, always saw what
appeared to me as perfect peoplewho don't understand what
(06:37):
brokenness is and this and that,like dignitaries.
And so I would stay, stay awayfrom it as far as as far back as
I could.
And when I came to your church,I was blown away.
Like one of the videos that wasshown is was a brother who had
just come from home from prison,is now running a ministry uh
there at the church, and thatjust blew my mind.
(07:00):
I said, Oh, these are some realChristians in this place.
And so tell me about that.
Like, how did you get involvedwith like people who are just as
impacted?
A lot of a lot of organizationsand churches won't even touch
that, like they'll you know,keep their distance just to
maintain this like outwardappearance of we are you know
(07:20):
flawless and perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (07:23):
You know, I feel like it's God giving everybody
has a different approach toministry, and for whatever
reason, the Lord has given us aheart for those that have come
out of difficult situations,whatever that might be, whether
that's incarceration, brokenmarriages, broken homes,
traumatized childhoods.
I I realize life is not it's notperfect.
(07:44):
You know, life happens and weall make mistakes, including
myself.
I've made major mistakes in mylife.
But yet at the same time, I knowwe serve a God of mercy.
You know, Jesus came to heal thebrokenhearted, he came to preach
deliverance to the captives.
You know, when he stood in thesynagogue after he came out of
the wilderness, that was hisfirst message.
(08:05):
He quoted from Isaiah, said theLord hath anointed me for this
reason.
And I feel like God has enabledus and given us a heart for
people that have come out ofbroken situations or traumatized
past or coming out of mistakesthat they've made and realize
that's not the end of theirjourney.
And our past does not define us,but rather it's the grace of God
(08:26):
that defines us.
And the Lord has led us intothat.
And I feel like if you look atour church, you will see a
reflection of that.
You'll see a picture of that.
You'll see diversity not only ofculture, race, background,
economic status.
And I feel that's the body ofChrist because that's what
heaven looks like.
Heaven, you know, is a diversityof people that have come from
(08:48):
all backgrounds.
And so my approach to ministryis for our church to look a
little bit like heaven and tohave that diversity and to be
able to reach people no matterwhere they are.
And I've I've said this often,and I firmly believe this.
I really don't care where you'vebeen, I just want to know where
you're going because it's fromthis point that's what matters
most.
It's the the choices that youmake from now.
(09:10):
That's what's going to defineyou as a person.
So that's been our heart, that'sbeen our passion and our burden,
and that's the way that weapproach ministry, and that's
kind of the core of our messageis that message of restoration
and reconciliation anddeliverance and being able to
get up from where you are andmove forward and see God do
something great in your life.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
Yeah, man, that's that's beautiful.
If only everybody could sharethat same principle, that same
thought process.
Um, it's kind of it's kind ofcrazy when I think about what
God has done in my life, knowingwhere I have come from.
(09:53):
And like, you know, a lot oftimes when I'm talking to
people, and when I used to golive on other platforms and
stuff, my my goal was to likereach them people because just
like I was, I thought God didn'twant nothing to do with me, He
couldn't use me, I was toobroken, I've made too many
(10:14):
horrible choices, and that I wasirredeemable.
Uh, and I know that that isalive from the pit of hell.
Um, and so like when you do comeacross that, like you basically
just said it.
It's not about what you've done,it's where you're at right now
and where you're heading, right?
Right.
(10:34):
Um exactly, yeah, and to try toget that through people's heads,
I hear it in your message everyweek, every single week.
I am this is this is why I knowI'm where I'm supposed to be.
I am convicted, I am uplifted,and I am not being fed some
(10:55):
watered down uh uh man-winning,like you're winning souls,
you're not winning people.
Um, and that is what I love, butbeing able to find the balance
between grace and truth, so youdon't deliver one more than the
other, that is something that Ibelieve only comes from the Holy
(11:18):
Spirit.
When we talk about peoplepreparing for messages and the
little tiny bit of messages thatI've delivered in the past, and
I prayed, man.
I was petrified, I didn't wantto, but God made it very clear
this is what I want you to do.
And so, like through obedience,I got through it and the message
(11:39):
was delivered.
But there was preparation, therewas fasting, there was studying,
there was a lot of prayer.
Um, what does that look like foryou?
You're you're delivering a firemessage every single week that
is not watered down, and mostdefinitely, if your heart is not
(12:00):
pricked after you leave one ofthese messages, then you might
have had an ear pod in orsomething and you were listening
to something else.
Because I don't know how that'seven possible.
But what is what is somethingyou do when you're about to
prepare a message?
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
Well, to me to me, the most important thing is is
to know that I am deliveringwhat God wants these people to
hear.
You know, it's not about me orany other preacher, it's about
God, what do you want to say toyour people?
And that's when I pray, that'swhat I ask.
That's what I go to the Lord.
I say, God, what do you wantyour people to hear?
(12:38):
I want them to receive exactlythe heart of God.
And of course, his heart isrevealed through the word of
God.
And so, yeah, I will and Ipreach in series a lot.
I, you know, both on the midweekas well as the Sunday, I will
choose a series or ask God forwhat direction we want to go,
feel a certain direction, andthen through prayer, ask God,
(13:00):
what are the specific thingsthat you want to say, and then
do a lot of research as well,obviously, through preparation,
through study, through writing,through editing, and all of
that, you know, to make surethat I am delivering the content
that is not only feeding thehead, but most importantly
feeding the heart.
You know, I want to make surethat it's accurate, I want to
(13:21):
make sure that it is relevant.
And to me, Kevin, the mostimportant thing then comes at
the altar where we take what Godhas spoken to us through the
word, and we come to the altarand we make it real.
And I think that's what'smissing in a lot of churches.
The altar service is no longer,you know, relevant to many
churches.
They'll deliver a word and thensay a benediction, and everybody
(13:45):
goes home.
I think there needs to be a timewhere we come and spend moments
in the presence of God saying,Lord, now speak to me.
What word has been delivered?
Now speak to me.
Help me to apply, to assimilatethis word into my life so that I
can become better.
And that, of course, only comesthrough the Holy Spirit because
(14:06):
He is the guide of truth.
He is the one that not just thecomforter, but He's also the
convictor.
He's the one that brings tolight those things.
And so that's why to me, thealtar service, that's the most
important part of any time thatwe gather together.
So that's that's kind of myprocess.
It takes, yes, it takes time.
(14:26):
You know, it takes time writing,like I said, editing and making
sure that I deliver the contentthat God wants these people to
hear.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Yeah, it's it's we we were so blessed.
We were, I'm not even gonna lie,on our way here from California,
we go to a church that isliterally started by men who
were formerly incarcerated, andwe're talking hundreds of years
between the whole crew, and uhand they are on fire for God.
(14:55):
Every other church I went to andvisited was like, you know, a
motivational speech with alittle bit of sprinkling of you
know, half of a sentence ofscripture.
No getting down into the wordand why they were writing this
that time, and how does it applythese days?
(15:17):
And you know, why does it notnot apply these days?
And you know, um, so whenfinding all these other churches
where I'm like, I what was thatgreat show, like very
interesting motivational speech,but like where's the where
where's the word?
And so when we came here, wewere praying for that to find a
(15:40):
church, and her mom had said,This guy's on fire, like you
know, this is a little you know,little mom.
And and when we first came tothe to the service, man, I I was
I was floored.
I was I was definitely hit withthe spirit, and I said, Oh,
okay, all right, we're safe,we're good.
Um, so yeah, so it was ablessing immediately.
(16:04):
The whole one of the things thatalways gets me, right?
So I started a ministry in LA.
This is soon after my wife and Ihad gotten married.
My wife and I, I don't know ifyou knew this, knew each other
for two months online, and thenwe got married in person the
first time we met.
So we yeah, and then for thenext nine months, we
(16:26):
communicated via FaceTime, andthat was it.
So shout out to FaceTime.
Um, and FaceTime kept usverbally, spiritually, praying
together, reading the word longdistance.
I was in LA, she was in Indiana,and we're back and forth, and
we're building this relationshipbackwards compared to what I had
built it on in the past.
(16:48):
Uh, it was completely different.
And so, but then there was thishey, God wants me to start a
ministry, the basic ministry.
Oh, okay.
And so there was a lot of timeswhere um her trusting in me
almost became an issue.
It was like, no, you gotta justtrust me.
This is what God like, you know,and and I had been in such a in
(17:13):
tune with him that there wasnothing, I don't care who you
are, you ain't telling me whathe said and didn't say because
he'd already given me theassignment.
And so that would bring upfriction sometimes and
confrontation.
How has that been for 35?
Like you're coming on 35 yearsof marriage, which is
mind-blowing to me in and ofitself.
35 years of marriage.
(17:34):
How has that been with the thewife and the family and you
know, God's calling you here,God's calling you there?
And I've talked to other pastorsand they've said, you know, it
can be a challenge.
Or what does that look like foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
Sure.
Well, I appreciate you knowevery decision that we've made
in changing locations ofministry where God's called us.
You know, my my wife has beenvery, she's been she's been
supportive.
And not not to say again thatthere's not been those moments
and I've not always done itright.
I know that for a fact.
I'm not saying that I have, butshe's been, she's been an
(18:11):
excellent, excellent mother toour children, wife, and support
and ministry.
And I'm telling you, I just wantto say this, Kevin, because I
feel like, you know, many timespastors, because they're the
ones preaching every Sunday,that many times their wives
aren't recognized for theministry that they have.
And my wife, I believe, has aunique anointing on her where
(18:35):
people are just drawn to her.
And no, it may not be likepreaching a Sunday message, but
she has such a way ofcommunicating to people that
they are just drawn to her.
In fact, I I can't tell you howmany times we've been someplace
where a complete stranger willcome up to her and literally
(18:56):
pour their life story out to herand then walk away saying, I
don't know why I just said allthat, but I feel like that's
that's a special anointing.
It really is.
And so, yeah, I feel like itcomes to the point that when God
is in it and God is moving you,you know, obviously scripture
said these two shall become oneflesh.
(19:17):
And I feel like God will move onboth of you.
And yeah, there will have to beconversations and there may be
disagreements, but at the end ofthe day, I feel like as you
submit to God and submit, youknow, your plan to his plan and
allow Holy Spirit to do thatwork, you know, those conflicts
(19:38):
can be resolved and you're ableto, you know, move ahead into
the ministry God's called you tobe able to move into.
So it has to be a work of HolySpirit.
We know that it can't be aman-made, you can't force
anybody, whether it's marriageor any other relationship, you
can't force anybody to seethings the way you see them.
You know, it's a supernaturalwork of the Holy Spirit, and you
(19:59):
have to allow him to do the workthat you and I, we can't do
that.
He's got to be the one to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Amen.
Amen.
I couldn't agree more.
And I just want to say this mywife, too, Molly.
Yeah, she there's no strangersto her.
Uh it's like we're in the middleof a supermarket, and it's like,
okay, can we get going?
So yeah, yeah.
That's a blessing, man.
That's a blessing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (20:26):
Um, I mean, after all, we are all human beings,
you know.
And I think I think pastors areput on such a high, under a
finer scope, I guess, becausethere's expectations are greater
and they're being watched more.
And, you know, that whole thatwhole thing.
(20:46):
So people love to try to find agood Christian pastor and tear
them down if they can.
They want to, you know, findthat flaw, find the weak spot,
and bring them down to theirlevel.
Um, so beautiful.
Thank you.
And okay, so I'm gonna shift ita little bit, right?
So I have some I've mentionedthis before.
(21:06):
My brother's out in California,they're formerly incarcerated
now.
They have started a churchcalled Truthbearer International
Ministries.
They're in Northern Californiaand Southern California, just
getting the ball rolling.
It's been a couple years now.
Um, incredible messages, which Iwill probably shoot you a link
sometime because it would begreat to have them as one of
(21:28):
them as a guest here at the atthe church.
But that's something, you know,I'm planting planting the seed,
hopefully.
So what would you say to them asthey venture off?
Right now, they rent thebuilding from another church,
and they just, you know, use itand preach every week.
And they are like again, soldout.
It is a group of brothers thathas truly transformed how God
(21:52):
has used them to help shape andmold me, transform me.
And I am not perfect.
I am so frustrated.
Far from it, but you should haveseen me before.
So that's what I that's what Ialways like to say.
You think it's you think I'm alittle rough around the edges
right now, go back, you know, 10years and you'll see what God
has actually done.
(22:14):
Um so what would you say to themas they're venturing off and
getting involved in this andtrying to reach the masses with
the gospel of Jesus Christ?
Advice.
SPEAKER_00 (22:25):
You know, I would say number one, stay true to the
mission God's given to you.
Don't allow other churches orother ministries to influence
you from being from reallypursuing the mission of
preaching the gospel.
Stay true to simply preachingthe gospel.
You know, Paul said it's thegospel, that's the power unto
(22:46):
salvation.
And there's a lot of tricks, alot of, you know, a lot of
marketing strategies, a lot ofthings that are in the church
world that people are using toattract, you know, crowds and
get people to come in.
And I would say all of that isfluff.
Stay true to the mission, staytrue to the gospel.
And don't, here's the here's theother thing is don't be ashamed
(23:08):
of where you've come from.
You know, all of us have thingsthat we've done in our life that
we have regretted.
All of us have made mistakes,and there's things we wish we
could go back and undo.
But the fact of the matter is,Paul said this.
He said, he said, brothers, I'venot count myself, I count not
myself to have apprehended.
He said, but this one thing Ido, I'm forgetting those things
(23:29):
which are behind.
Now, that doesn't mean he hadamnesia.
That means he's not allowingthose things which are behind
him to influence where he was.
You know, and I think all of ushave a past, and we need to be
able to say, you know what?
I'm not going to just ignorethat.
I'm going to say God hasdelivered me from that and has
used even some of the mistakesI've made, has turned that
(23:53):
around and use that.
What the enemy meant for evil,God, you've used it now for
good.
That can be the launch pad to agreater level of ministry.
So I guess I'm saying is thatyes, we regret what we've done,
but thank God for his gracethat's forgiven us.
And now let's take what we'vedone, use it as a platform to be
(24:14):
able to build a testimony andsay, if God did it for me, he
can do it for you.
If God redeemed me out of this,he can redeem you out of this.
And I feel like for yourbrothers there that are building
your church, I feel like that'sa strong platform they need to
stand on.
You know, the the what God hasbrought them out of and continue
to stay true to the word.
(24:36):
Don't be influenced by all ofthe, again, tricks that are out
there that other churches andministries are using.
Stay true to who you are, staytrue to the word of God.
Don't let your past become a youknow a shameful thing, but let
it be a platform, build aministry on it as far as the
grace of God, and I think you'regonna reach a lot more people
(24:58):
that way.
SPEAKER_01 (25:00):
Praise God, man.
So y'all heard that, brothers,because I know y'all are gonna
be listening.
So um, man, yeah, you just hitme too.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for that.
I've been, you know, honestly,Pastor, I've been trying to find
my way.
Find find where where you wantme, God.
What do you want me to do?
(25:20):
And, you know, full of things inthe past that are just riddling
me with trying to riddle me withshame and guilt and regret and
like that whole it's like beingchained to the Empire State
Building and trying to cross thestreet.
You just can't.
You can't I can't move furtherif I continue to allow that
chain to be there.
(25:41):
And I know that for some daysit's good, some days it's bad.
And I know I'm not alone.
I know there's plenty of peoplewho deal with the same thing,
and it's like this tug of war,and that's why so many times you
you hear it daily pick up mycross, you know.
Yes, daily.
Yeah, so just incredible.
And when I think about thescriptures, and you just brought
(26:02):
up don't be ashamed, andimmediately my like one of I
have two scriptures that arelike my go-to's.
One, I am not ashamed of thegospel of Jesus Christ, where
there's a power of God as tosalvation as to anybody who
believes, and that in and ofitself spoke everything you just
(26:22):
said.
Like it literally tells me whocares about your past.
And when knowing that God hasalready taken certain situations
and circumstances in my life,turned him from a stumbling
block into a stepping stone, andthat things happened that I
could never it wouldn't itdidn't even cross my mind,
(26:45):
wasn't even on the table as apossibility, because he is so
far greater than what we reallyunderstand.
What is that's my next question?
What is your go-to book orscripture?
Like when you're you've got somedowntime, which probably never
happens, but when you've gotsome downtime and you know,
(27:08):
you're kicking back and you'rein your word, and you know,
there's something that that'scomforting to you, what it what
would that be?
SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
Yeah, there's a lot.
I I you know, I would say thescripture that has really been
kind of my life scripture sinceI was 21 years old is Psalm 37.
Psalm 37, 23.
And the reason, and it well,I'll quote the scripture, the
steps of a good man are orderedby the Lord, and he delights in
his way.
Though he fall, he shall not beutterly cast down, for the Lord
(27:40):
upholdeth him with his hand.
I was 21 years old, goingthrough a tough time.
I was a kind of an assistantpastor at a church in
Louisville, Kentucky.
And one of the one of the Biblecollege professors was traveling
with a group of students that Ihad graduated from, and they
were traveling through the verycity that I was in Louisville,
Kentucky, and they stopped.
And the professor walked over tome and said, Mark, I feel like
(28:02):
God gave me a word for you.
And he gave me that word, and itwas right on time, in season,
and it spoke deeply to me.
And really that's what's, youknow, that's what's kept me
through all the years, throughall the mistakes, through all
the things, you know, that I'vehad to learn through life and
through ministry.
That I always come back to thatscripture because I feel like,
yes, my steps are being orderedby the Lord.
(28:25):
And even if I do fall, even if Ido, you know, step out of his
will or maybe step out of line,he shall not be utterly cast
down.
I can always get back up becausethe Lord is upholding me with
his hand.
And that, and then Philippians1, where Paul said, I'm
confident of this very thingthat he which hath begun a good
work in you will perform ituntil the day of Jesus Christ.
(28:49):
And I'm convinced God's done awork, you know, started a work
in me, he started a work in you,started a work in everybody
that's listening to this podcastright now.
And so if God started it, thenhe's gonna be faithful that no
matter what comes between startand finish, he's gonna be
faithful to do what it takes toget you to that finish line.
And I I stand on that.
(29:10):
I do, because again, you know,life throws curveballs at you.
Things happen.
We, you know, we make mistakes,but in spite of all of that, the
work of God in my life is gonnacontinue on.
So those those are kind of two,you know, go-to scriptures for
me.
I guess a third one would bePhilippians three, what if I've
already quoted it.
You know, Paul said, I'mforgetting those things which
(29:30):
are behind, I'm reaching forthto those things which are
before, and I'm gonna presstoward the mark.
And I think that's uh that'swhere what you just said is
important.
Taking up your cross daily.
It's a daily pressing, it's adaily, I'm gonna move forward,
I'm gonna press on, I'm gonnakeep, I'm gonna keep believing
no matter what.
It's a daily decision that youhave to make.
You can't make it one time andexpect it to last the rest of
(29:53):
your life.
It's every day I get up.
Okay, God, today I'm pressingon.
I don't care how I feel, I don'tcare what I've gone through, I'm
pressing on, and I'm believingthat I'm gonna reach that market
and get that price for the highcalling.
SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
Man, amen.
You ain't joking.
You are not every time we talk,I get fired up.
SPEAKER_00 (30:13):
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
Ready to grab my word and go hit the streets.
So we have come to the closing,and I ask every guest, Pastor,
first of all, man, thank you somuch again for this.
This man has this is the thirdattempt, y'all.
I just wanted to throw that outthere again.
But the question I close with isif you could go back and talk to
(30:34):
your younger self, what wouldyou say?
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
I would definitely tell myself that number one,
surround yourself with peoplethat have done things you've
never done, gone places you'venever gone, and learn from them.
Surround yourself with bettermentors, leaders, people to
speak into your life.
And as you get into ministry andleadership, surround yourself
(31:02):
with people that are how can Isay this, people that are highly
qualified and that you are ableto surround yourself with
quality people, quality leaders.
Because what what I found is alot of us, including myself, you
know, we like to, if we hiresomebody or we build a team, you
(31:25):
know, we like to sometimes feellike, okay, well, I'm at the
top, so I've got to be kind ofbetter than everybody.
And I've learned I can't dothat.
I've got to hire people that arebetter than I am, I've got to
hire people that know stuff thatI don't know.
And so I would definitely, thatwould be the piece of advice
that I would tell my youngerself going into life, going into
leadership, and going intoministry.
SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, Pastor Man, thank you somuch again for your time.
I'm very grateful uh that thislooks like it went off without a
hitch.
We're about to find out.
And so, yeah, would you mindpraying us out and and maybe
inviting anybody to if theyhaven't given them their their
(32:07):
lives to Jesus?
unknown (32:08):
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (32:09):
Man, join us, join us on this mission, join the
body of Christ.
It is the best thing you can dofor yourself, y'all.
SPEAKER_00 (32:15):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, if you've not yet madeJesus your Savior, I'm telling
you, this is the moment.
And it's as simple as justconfessing your sin to the Lord
and just saying, God, I needyou.
I need you in my life.
And so I'm gonna pray with youright now.
Father, what a blessing to be inyour presence.
What a blessing to know that youare Lord.
And today I pray for everybodylistening to this podcast, Holy
(32:37):
Spirit, that you would justreach them at the depth of their
spirit.
And Lord, if they don't knowyou, that they would cry out to
you.
They would cry out in humility,they would cry out in surrender
and say, Jesus, forgive me of mysin.
Come into my life.
I receive the grace that you'vegiven.
And Lord, I just pray thateverybody listening to this
(32:57):
podcast would realize that youare there with them right now,
no matter where they are, nomatter what they've done, you're
with them right now and are ableto pick them up and be able to
set their feet on a rock solidin you, Lord.
They can walk forward from thismoment.
And I pray blessing over Kevin.
And Lord, this podcast, I thankyou for his heart, his ministry.
(33:20):
I pray increased anointing inhis life.
Lord, let it continue to buildand grow.
And Father, we give it to you inJesus' name we're gonna thank
you, Pastor.
SPEAKER_01 (33:34):
All right, y'all.
Y'all heard it here on BasicConversations.
Thanks for tapping in.
Tune in next time.
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