December 21, 2022 • 34 mins
Send us a Text Message with what batty adventures you’ve been up to this summer!
S4E38 We return to London's Natural History Museum. This time however, we're in the bowels of the Diptera collection with flygirl herself, Dr Erica McAlister. If you think you recognise that name it's because Erica has graced the airwaves several times before including BBC Radio 4's The Infinite Monkey Cage and The Life Scientific. As you'll hear in this episode, Erica needs help from those of us who regularly handle bats. If you're a bat carer or a bat worker who undertakes bat box checks or trapping surveys, please start collecting all bat ectoparasites from bats and place them into vials of 100% ethanol. Make detailed notes about the species of bat they came from, the sex of the bat, located of ectoparasite & what the bat was doing at the time. A location & the habitat is also a must. As much info as possible! You can then post your specimens to:
Dr Erica McAlister,
Senior Curator; Diptera,
Life Sciences (Insects Division),
The Natural History Museum,
Cromwell Road,
London SW7 5BD.
Your specimens will be added to the collection and your name will eventually appear in the digital collections.
Bat and bird fly recording scheme website
See Piotr Naskrecki's bat fly image here
A short video of Erica talking about bat flies along with more photos here
Ethanol can be purchased here
Sample tubes can be
Wildcare
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Please leave us a review or star rating if your podcast app allows it because it helps us to reach a wider audience so that we can spread the word about how great bats are. How to write a podcast review (and why you should).
Got a story to share with us? Please get in touch via comms@bats.org.uk
Bats are magical but misunderstood. At BCT our vision is a world rich in wildlife where bats and people thrive together. Action to protect & conserve bats is having a positive impact on bat populations in the UK. We would not be able to continue our work to protect bats & their habitats without your contribution so if you can please donate. We need your support now more than ever: www.bats.org.uk/donate Thank you!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve Roe (00:09):
This is BatChat from the Bat Conservation Trust the
podcast for anyone who lovesbats. We're bringing you the
stories from the world of batconservation, from the people on
the ground, doing work thatfurthers our understanding of
these magical creatures. There'sa lot of information experience
and stories out there. And we'rebringing it right to you. I'm
Steve Roe. I'm an ecologist aswell as a trustee of the Bat
(00:31):
Conservation Trust. You can jointhe conversation online using
the hashtag BatChat that's allone word. This week we're back
at London's Natural HistoryMuseum delving into the
collections. The 56th WildlifePhotographer of the Year awards
featured an image of aMozambican long fingered bat
with what appeared to be aspider attached to his face.
(00:51):
Yes, this week rather than goingthrough drawers of bats were in
the diptera collection with flygirl herself, the senior curator
of flies and fleas Dr. EricaMcAlister. In this episode,
we're discovering the lives ofwingless critters that live on
bats, bat flies, it's hard notto be taken in by Erica's
enthusiasm in this episode. Andshe has an important task for
those of us who handle bats on aregular basis. So I'm sat in a
(01:18):
glass sided room in somewhere inthe back of the Natural History
Museum with Dr. Erica McAlister,who is the Senior Curator of
flies and fleas here at theNatural History Museum. And I
probably need to start thispodcast with an apology because
when Professor Kate Jones findsout that fly girl has been on
the podcast before she has I'min big trouble. I take it off
(01:40):
air you are both very goodFriends.
Dr Erica McAlister (01:41):
Yeah no Kate's wonderful, but obviously
we can't tell the world that canwe!
Steve Roe (01:46):
So everyone knows you as fly girl, but you actually
hand reared a Jamaican fruitbatcalled Suzie out in the
Caribbean. Can you tell us moreabout that? And then we'll get
onto the flies?
Dr Erica McAlister (01:54):
Well, well, I It wasn't just me there was.
I've spent a lot of time goingback and forth from Dominica.
It's very good. And I work withan organisation called Operation
Wallacea. And we have lots ofstudents that come from all over
the world. And they come andhelp us scientists do various
different projects, minds,obviously looking at the best
creatures, the insects,specifically the flies, but I
(02:15):
was working alongside the batfolks. And one of them Melissa.
She is a Canadian, and she is avery good as well as doing all
the bat surveys and try and dobat research in Canada. She's
one of the bat rehabilitators soshe will look after injured
bats. We have a great fun. Oncea week we go canyoning. So we go
charging up and down canyons andon one of these trips, she found
(02:38):
this Jamaican fruit bat at animmature one at the base of the
canyon. So she's umming andahing, umming and ahing, and
what to do with it, and she waslike, Do you know what I will
hand rear it. She had five weeksthat she was going to be on this
trip before it ended. And it wasgoing to be like, let's go for
it. And we're all living in acommunal area together so she
just turned up one day look gota bat and we were like, okay,
(02:59):
and Suzie, as she became known,took an absolute liking to her
and me, which was really cute,because I'll be sitting there
and as his bat, like, sitting onme in my air. And I have to say,
I know, I know I shouldn't dothis. But when the bat was
purring, you know, when you comehome from a hard day in the
(03:21):
field, and then the bat suddenlylaunches itself at you. And in
the early days, it would justkind of like start all over the
place and whatever you pick itup, and then when it starts to
fly, you come home and it getsinto your chest and start
purring. I was like a tinylittle, like, fur flying cat.
You know, it was like, butslightly, obviously better than
(03:42):
a cat. So yeah, so it was quiteamazing. And we were lucky to
get work with the ForestryCommission out there. And
Melissa was able to release itback to an area of a known
colony and they were able tocarry on monitoring so fingers
crossed. Susie has gone on witha little memory of two lovely
people helped her Yeah, bless ohmy gosh, when she used to eat
(04:06):
mangoes though bats are messy!All over the place. And she was
like she was drunk. We had to becareful about what mangoes we
gave up because, well firstdefinitely times your like Suzi
behave. But yes, it was quite anexperience. 2015 Gosh, not long
ago, but it was quite amazing.
Steve Roe (04:27):
So I'll be honest, I know nothing about bat flies at
all spent last night researchingthere's absolutely nothing. I've
seen them in real life whenwe've handled bats and you see
them they look a bit like fleascrawling around.
Dr Erica McAlister (04:40):
I think they drunk spiders. Yeah. Yeah. So
when you go to grab them withthe little forceps. They just
did did it and they go each andevery way. You know, they're
like the queen on the chessboardand go absolutely anywhere. And
they are that just like tinycrabs. You know, they've got
that scuttle like move meant, soI just think they're quite fun.
(05:02):
Obviously bats hate it. Becausewhen you're trying to pick off
these bat flies, bats get reallymoody really quickly. And yeah,
so it has caused a lot of, youknow, bats swearing when I tried
to remove them.
Steve Roe (05:16):
Yeah, I mean, the ones I've seen look like crabs.
So for for listeners who haven'tseen them or aren't sure, can
you just describe them otherthan they look a bit like a
crab.
Dr Erica McAlister (05:26):
So first off, there's two families about
flies, there's Nycteribiidae,and there's Streblidae. And we
won't get the Streblidae overhere. They are generally found
in the more western world, thetropics or subtropics, but we
definitely get the Nycteribiidaehere. Now there are only three
species in the UK. Okay. Yeah,so there's not many of them, I
(05:47):
think it's 17 across Europe. Andthey are, imagine a fly and then
destroy every image you have ofwhat you think fly looks like
because they have most of themwell Nycteribiidae are wingless.
And if they have eyes, they'revery small, very reduced. They
(06:08):
have some of them haveextraordinary long legs, spindly
legs, and then most fantasticclaws at the end of them,
because they're supremelyadapted to living on their
hosts, the bats.
Steve Roe (06:19):
The one image of bat flies that seems to become quite
famous Piotr Naskrecki was indownstairs in the in the
wildlife photographer of theyear it's just sat on the face
of a Mozambique
Dr Erica McAlister (06:32):
I interviewed him. We had a lovely
chat about it. And we just wentoff completely on them. I mean,
what an amazing experience. Andhe has a great job of going out
there and looking at them. Andbeing a photographer who's spent
a lot of time he's able to giveus so much observatory data,
which is great when you knowwe're getting lots of new stuff.
(06:53):
And it is it's a bit it's a bitof a weird image because it
makes the bat fly look enormous.
And then not really you know,don't imagine a greater paper
straw with a thing that big onits head. So it's a small bag.
It's a weird image, but it isquite stunning visualisation?
Yes, it's
Steve Roe (07:11):
great. And really hairy as well, aren't they
Dr Erica McAlister (07:14):
Hirsute young man hirsute! Yes. And
they're meant to be hairy. Imean, you know, some of them are
hairy. Actually, some of themare quite bald. It really does
depend on the species. But itdoesn't, you know, that enable
the hairs are sensory organs.
And it also enables them to, youknow, snuggle in in their hairy
hosts.
Steve Roe (07:34):
So what purpose do they serve in ecology? You know,
what they're feeding on? Andwhat's the lifecycle? So we know
of,
Dr Erica McAlister (07:40):
okay, I just rolled my eyes, for the
listeners, because what purposequestion is one that I would
just slam at the ballparkstraightaway mate. What's the
purpose of humans? Right. So areyou asked me what their
ecological roles are? Okay,that's a different story. And
will they are basicallyEctoparasites. So this is their
(08:03):
role. And they do it very well.
They have co evolved,presumably, after the expansion
of the mammalian radiation batflies are in the Cyclopodia,
which are some of the morerecently evolved species of
flies, so it does kind ofcoincide. The superfamily their
from the Hippoboscid, alsoinclude the Tsete, and the
(08:27):
Hippoboscoidea, which are thebird flies, but we presume they
weren't from bats to birds thatway around in evolution. So as
to their roles, that they're notpollinators. They're not doing
anything. They're just doingexactly what they want to do.
They are feeding on their house,and providing a supreme habitat
for the next generation.
Steve Roe (08:50):
And you mentioned Tsetse. And I was quite
surprised when I was researchingto find the bat flies give birth
to live young and then realisedthey were in the same family as
Tsetse, and then it all sort ofclicked and made sense.
Dr Erica McAlister (09:02):
I don't think people quite understand
how amazing that is. Genuinelystop and think about it. These
flies, all of the Hippoboscoideagive birth live now it's called
Adenotrophic viviparity. So theyproduce an egg, which hatches
and then they internally rear alarvae. So she's got lactating
(09:25):
glands on the inside. Now, thatis, there's nothing else that
does that. There are a fewexamples in the California the
the blue bottles, blue flieswhere they do that, but that is
it across the whole of theanimal kingdom. How, how weird
is that, given
Steve Roe (09:43):
that they've evolved alongside bats or since bats and
also, you know, found out whenlistening to the the infinite
monkey cage when you had aconversation with Kate said that
those live younger those fliesare about 40% of the weight of
the adults which is the same asbats is it just a coincidence or
is there a Is there somethingmore integral between the
relationship between bats andflies there?
Dr Erica McAlister (10:03):
I had no idea about the bats. Now that I
doubt it, I think there's,unless there's no I wouldn't
know.
Steve Roe (10:12):
So you mentioned that some are wingless, and some
retain their wings until theycan find a host. For the
wingless ones, you know how theymove in between these different
bat colonies and repopulate innew areas.
Dr Erica McAlister (10:22):
So they were generally stay to one host for
their entire life. Okay, theydon't, they don't move around.
It's not like they fall off, ifthey fall off, that's a problem.
So and that's probably whythey're quite rare. And probably
why there's quite a few problemswhen it comes to bats moving
around roosts, and things likethat. I mean, that's one way
they can move around if batsmove around, but if they kind of
(10:44):
get separated and lost, it'spros and cons, isn't it. So the
female, the males and femaleswill stay on the host or their
life, and they will only thefemale only come off when she's
about to give birth. And at thatpoint, she goes to whatever the
substrate the bats are on be ina tree or a cave. And at that
point, and the larvae will thenhave to find a new host. And
(11:07):
that's how it works.
Steve Roe (11:08):
I see. So it's there's a, I mean, do we know
how long that takes? And isthere a risk, then obviously, if
they leave the host and at batsmove on? For whatever
Dr Erica McAlister (11:16):
reason?
Exactly. So even they cansurvive a little bit without
feeding. But they do need toobviously get a host. Yeah,
Steve Roe (11:25):
It's very interesting. We'll talk more
about the number of specimensyou've got here at the history
museum and a bit when we go lookat the collection. You're
undertaking some research intobat flies. And that's where this
podcast came about. You've gotto you've got a random jar
things here in front of us, youknow, what is that research? And
how can we expect ecologistshelp you?
Dr Erica McAlister (11:45):
Okay, well, there's two things. So there's a
little bit of fun stuff fromDominica, which are these jars
of flies here. So again, back tothe colleagues, I've been
working over the Caribbean,we've been picking off these bat
flies for the last six years,seven years worth of data. And
we want to look at the hostspecifity. It's a terrible word
(12:06):
to say that for me, and we wantto live with as they're not
generally thought to be veryhost specific. So but we would
like to look in it. And it willbe interesting, because in terms
of disease transmission, andthings like that, it'd be very
good to understand what's goingon. So that's just me playing
around with those, we may havesome new species in there as
well, who knows. But in the UK,I am alongside a lovely lady
(12:32):
called Denise Wawman, we back in2020, launch the bat and bird
fly recording scheme. Now shehas the greater part of this,
because I have a whopping threespecies of which I need to be
start recording. However, thosethree species are very difficult
(12:53):
to record, because obviouslythey're on bats. And as you
know, unless you have a bathandling licence, it's very
difficult. Now, you know, I'vecome across bats in many
situation and and we all go outwith our little bat monitors.
And that's great. But it doesn'ttell me it's not we haven't got
a little bat, you know, bat flymonitor. That'd be amazing,
wouldn't it? If I could just goBeep Beep Beep like that. So
(13:15):
what I'm asking is for allpeople, a bat rehabilitators.
Anyone who does bat surveys,whatever, if you do come across
any of the ectoparasites, Iwould very much like them. And
that's any ectoparasites. Youknow what, yes, because I'm also
involved with the fleas. There'salso bat bugs, that's bat lice.
There's all sorts of things likethis, and actually doing a
(13:36):
comprehensive survey of actuallywhat's out there, I think would
be very useful.
Steve Roe (13:42):
I mean, I've literally just finished this
autumn doing autumn swarmingsurvey, seen handle lots of
bats, and almost all of thosebats have got some sort of
ectoparasites on it. Imagine Iwould imagine this time next
year, you'll be inundated.
Dr Erica McAlister (13:58):
And that's fine. That's fine. No is good. I
love an echo parasite. So that'svery good. And we are doing part
of the Darwin Tree of Life atthe Museum, we're very heavily
involved. So it'd be really goodto actually get some of these
fresh ethanols so we cansequence them and find out
what's going on.
Steve Roe (14:15):
So when people take these X parasites off, do you
want them to record whereaboutson the bat their found, whether
it's on the main body or on thewing? And then what's the best
way to get the sample to you andhow,
Dr Erica McAlister (14:27):
okay, so, first of all, in the strongest
solution of ethanol, 100% is thebest in vials, and you can pop
them into the post that's noproblem. You will be surprised
at how many flies are wingingtheir way around the post in the
world is quite amusing. Andafter data, so yes, I would like
species sex location age. We'retaking things like lactating
(14:55):
non-lactating if you if obviousthings like that position on the
bat will be Cool. And roost.
Yep. So I guess what you'll betaking all the data you'll be
taking in your surveys. I wouldjust like to crib that please.
Steve Roe (15:11):
Nice. So then you're all better workers get get a get
your flies into Erica next year,this jar you've got in front,
there's viles the whole jar isin solution. But then there's
jars inside with also solution,why the two into lots of
solution
Dr Erica McAlister (15:26):
to make sure that when the ethanol does not
dissolve, because we have to beso see, do you see that code?
Yeah. Do you know what speciesthat is? So they are, that's the
Jamaican fruit bat. So thislittle bat on the 12th of July
2019. gave me that little batfly.
Steve Roe (15:46):
And it really is teeny tiny.
I miss all his perspective,because I haven't got to burn my
hand. But actually, if I had aBatman that is quite large,
isn't it? Yeah.
Dr Erica McAlister (15:57):
I mean, that's kind of like a kiwi
walking around your body.
Imagine a kiwi with long legsjust walking around your body.
That's the sort of size of thinggoing on. So yeah, so I need to
go through these. I would dosome side mounts of them. I do
images, they have to have theproper labels. And then they go
into the collection. Talking ofwhich do you want to come? Yeah!
Steve Roe (16:26):
I've seen the outside of the egg?
Dr Erica McAlister (16:44):
Right, so we are in the collection.
Steve Roe (16:48):
So we've just walked through endless corridors, and
I've seen that little snapshotsof know where we are like the
outside of the darwin egg,roughly. Where are
Dr Erica McAlister (16:54):
we? Okay, so we're in the cocoon now. Now, I
know obviously, this is apodcast. But what you can see or
imagine, okay, is you've got onefloor, and there's 123456 rows.
And each row contains fouraisles of double sided cabinets.
(17:14):
Of which says, there's 28 peraisle of these cabinets. Okay,
now there's five floors ofentomology. And there's another
building, and then there's thepickles. So basically, what
you're basically looking at nowis 34 million insects. We can't
(17:34):
visualise that. And I can't. Imean, the Diptera collection,
we've only got between two and 4million. It's a bit of a guess.
And you'll understand why whenyou see some. But as long as the
pin specimens, these are theslide collection. This is the
beautiful Rothschild fleacollection. And we move on to us
(17:57):
with what was called prepare it.
And that's what the oldHippoboscidae used to be. I love
these askers predictions. Theseare the really ones these are
the mad crazy bat flies. Haveyou read about these? These are
the ones the females. There'sone feature of the females when
she gets pregnant. She rips herlegs off. So no wings off. Yeah,
(18:20):
go on about this one. Becauseit's like really, it is the best
example of bonkers in any animalis a come on cover what female
does that? So yes, these tiny, Imean, they are blobs on slides.
But we're trying to as I saidwe're trying to digitise the
collection. So we're goingthrough, and we're taking out
(18:42):
all of these collections. And weare taking them to be imaged
database. And,
Steve Roe (18:52):
and when you say image, that's the it's the stack
image and so you get a nice 3dimage
Dr Erica McAlister (18:56):
lately. So yeah, they've been imaged at the
moment. So this is what's goingon. They will offer imaging and
then these lot will get imaged.
So we have a little job to goyet. But as you can see most of
the collection and this isforeign, look at the little ones
on the amazing. The people thatthis is reflected in 1952 I love
(19:20):
it is by Jobling I love the factthat it says Jobling, Jobling
Jobling. And Theodore was a veryfamous collection collector as
well. But it's about time weadded to these collections.
Steve Roe (19:36):
So Eric was looking at so we're stood outside a very
nice polished wooden case andthat each tray is probably a
centimetre thick. And thenwithin each of those was several
dozen slides with with samplesin each of those. Yeah.
Dr Erica McAlister (19:52):
And then the pins, and this is the British
collection. So we keep theBritish Collection desperately
obviously because we have themost people coming from the
British. How many families ofbats? So, you know, there's more
species of fly in the UK thanthere are mammals on the planet?
(20:13):
Yes. Right. Well, Phoenix andstreps
Steve Roe (20:23):
do you find during the really hot summer days that
these rooms are much more busybecause they're temperature
controlled?
Dr Erica McAlister (20:28):
So it's interesting because they are
temperature controlled. So,humidity and temperature is
whatever. Now our Brazilianvisitors are freezing. But are
Russian visitors? Are like Yes,we had a lovely Russian lady a
couple of years back. And shewas 70 plus, it was best not to
(20:50):
ask. And she was going up anddown the ladders. And my
colleague it who was her hostwas really worried. And she's
like, Russian. I have survivedSiberian winters. This has
nothing to do you know what?
She's probably much better thanwe are so Absolutely. Right. You
ready for this? Enormous? Isn'tthe British collection?
Nycteribidae on pins.
Steve Roe (21:15):
I was gonna say one tray, not even one tray.
Dr Erica McAlister (21:18):
Kind of see?
Yes. So that hippoboscidae sothey don't even count. So that
is that is the pin collection.
Steve Roe (21:28):
How many of them 14 ish?
Dr Erica McAlister (21:32):
14 ish, yes.
Now obviously, most of the timenow we don't keep them in pin
collections. They are inpickles. Because it's a much
better way of storing them. Butthese are now all been
databased. They've all goneonline. And they were added to
the schemes and then added tothe atlas of UK observations.
And what we have though, is wehave some of the pupil cases. So
(21:55):
this is one of the species andthis is the colour of it. And
these are the ones associatedwith tree hosts. So Myotis
daubentonii and those species,so we get them there, whereas
the by articulator This is theone associated with cave bats,
(22:15):
the lesser and greaterhorseshoe, so I need people to
hang around in differentenvironments to get these
different ones. Yeah, and thenthey're obviously Brasilia Nana,
is the one on the Bechstein'sbat how rare is the Bechstein's
bat pretty, pretty rare? Andthat's the problem.
Steve Roe (22:35):
And we think and we and we don't know whether that's
host specific or we're do?
Dr Erica McAlister (22:38):
well, we don't think it is we don't think
Crazy. Have to say that I dolove them because they are just
any of us are truly hostspacific but again. Let's get
some data. Yeah. So there's alot of recent studies coming out
of Europe. It's been good onesand Slovenia, Crimea, all around
there. And that's really good.
But we could deal with someinformation here. So that'd be
great. To have a look at someunder a microscope. Yes.
(23:14):
weird.
Right. This is a microscope forsomebody who doesn't work, with
proper organisms this is whyKate always has a go at me. Stop
doing that Erica! Can't help it.
Now, what's amazing about theseis also their head. Okay, so if
(23:35):
you have a look down themicroscope, you want me to hold
that? When you look down themicroscope, so you'll see it's
quite a weird looking creatureat the best of times. And this
one's slightly dishevelled,because time has been not gentle
to it, bless it. But so you'vegot a very long legs, and you
(23:56):
can see really obvious claws,it's completely adapted to
living on fur. And these clawsare absolutely fantastic. And
enabling it to hold on. And ithas to absolutely because we
talked about earlier. But whatyou see it's got no wings, and
therefore it's got a very smallthoracic segment. And this is
because the, you know, the bigflight muscles are not
(24:19):
necessary. So it's much morereduced in other flies, other
insects etc. And the headtherefore when it's not feeding
at rest, kind of knots back intothe back. So as you see it
upwards, rather than forwards astraditional with all the other
flies. So it keeps its head outthe way the arrangement of their
bristles, their hairs, they haveall sorts of things, these all
(24:43):
diagnostic features to help us.
So I mean this one because ifpinned, it's going to be more
difficult to identify. Yeah, sothis is why we prefer them in
fNo. Nowadays, yeah. But tinylittle eyes. I mean, they don't
really need eyes. not hairy,what was the phrase you used?
Hirsute young man. I love it.
Yeah. Bless him. And she will,obviously because it's quite a
(25:07):
quite a process for her to getpregnant. They can copulate for
24 hours. Nice. Yeah, exactly.
Come back as one of those. Andwhat she will only give birth
about four or five times.
Steve Roe (25:22):
Okay. She's, I mean, you would, wouldn't you? So do
we know what the lifespan is?
Dr Erica McAlister (25:27):
Not really sure of all species that some of
them have been recorded forabout eight months, nine months?
It depends. If the adults getseparated from their hosts, some
will die within several days. Soit can be quite short.
Steve Roe (25:42):
So in terms of copulation, and a male's much
more roaming around backcolonies, how do they come
across one another?
Dr Erica McAlister (25:49):
No, they'll be on the same bat I think? Yes.
So seems a bit a bit. I know.
But bless him, he will be doingthat. And they both the males
and the females blood feed,which is unusual with blood
feeding insects. Usually, it'sjust a female who's doing it. So
we think about mosquitoes andother species like that. But
this is the both. And we thinkit's because he's got very
(26:12):
nutrient rich sperm. So it'sanother energy source of her
hence why she has such amazingoffspring 40% of your body
weight. It's just obscene, it'sjust like, you know, there's
pros and cons of these amazingcreatures. And that is
definitely a con for Oh, butshe's been she doesn't love it.
(26:32):
She's described as when shecomes off the bat, she will
reverse on to whatever thesubstrate is. And then the
larvae basically, it's in a prepre painted stage immediately
emerges. And then it pupatesthere and then she just shoves
it, she squashes it against thewall, which slept. What a hother
(26:52):
hey, it's just wonderful. Andthen quickly leaves it. I just
think I really do think we needto tell our human kids, they
have it very easy. They have noidea how bad life could be. You
imagine your mother's squashedto the fridge and go in here you
go go on with it. See,interestingly, this one has got
(27:14):
one the larvae beside it. Sothis is the pupil case and
they've obviously dissected outthe larvae. You see, it looks
really lifelike like that,because it's so constricted
together.
Steve Roe (27:30):
After looking at the sample that's at the bottom the
microscope just to get a senseof how small it is, is really
cool.
Dr Erica McAlister (27:36):
You know, I mean, this is it. It's
wonderful, isn't it? To seethem. I do love this species.
And then here's another piece ofwood next to it. And you can see
1234560 Wow, a tiny littlenursery, sort of that little
nursery as well as the bat.
Steve Roe (27:57):
So that piece of wood is probably two three
centimetres long. Yeah. And it'squite a gnarly piece of
Dr Erica McAlister (28:04):
bat fly's quite gnarly. Yeah, yeah.
Steve Roe (28:07):
And then there's tiny little going to hate this phrase
this tiny look like miniatureacorns just sort of like stuck
into the wood.
Dr Erica McAlister (28:17):
I could go with that very mature, acorn,
very dark brown. And this wascollected in 1934. Exactly. So
that's what I'm saying from HighWycombe. So we do need to kind
of go out there and startcollecting and we
Steve Roe (28:37):
think and will that have been from inside of that
kind of liking? Becauseobviously that's roosting inside
the tree like a will pick upsomething will have been from
inside the restaurant than Yeah,so
Dr Erica McAlister (28:45):
I presume it's gonna be on the inside.
Yeah, I mean, they're notthey're not daft. They're going
to be protected them. So yeah,so what, what people can do is
they can go online, because I'venow added all of these,
hopefully to our database. Sothey can go to the NHM portal,
and they can see our originalrecords. Although there's so few
of them, it really doesn'tmatter. So they anything if they
(29:09):
can either go to our recordrecords there, but preferably
specimens to me, because then Ican verify them. And that'd be
really, really handy. And maybewe could do some DNA from them.
It'd be great.
Steve Roe (29:23):
That's great. I had not idea there was anything like
that in bat roosts.
Dr Erica McAlister (29:27):
See this is the problem with you mammal
people. You just like get stuck.
And it's like no, wait, keeplooking. Keep looking. So you
got to see what the fleas itlike. And then you've got the
lice. And then you've got thebugs. You've got all of these.
We got sensor bugs recently backbugs, which is great because
we've sequenced them. Yeah,which is amazing. And they just
(29:47):
look like it's like nature kindof squashes things a lot. So
like you know, fleas aresquashed one way the bugs have
been squashed in alleyway. Thesehave been squashed a different
way. It's just Fine, there's alot of squashing going on. It's
quite
Steve Roe (30:02):
great. So you do a really good job of getting
people enthused about flies,which is, which is not, you
know, because they're amazing.
What tips would you give thosebad workers to get people the
public enthused about screenerswhich are not necessarily loved
by all?
Dr Erica McAlister (30:19):
So basically, just talk with the
heart, I got reminded thisrecently, actually, like, you
are you asked me straightaway,what's the ecological point of
something. And we do this asscientists, we spend so much
time we've got so involved withour subjects that we, we talk
about them as a secondaryobjects in many ways. And, you
(30:41):
know, we say, Oh, this speechhas been recorded here in here.
Now, what we need to do, and Ithink actually, what social
media has done as well, is tohighlight we really do love
these creatures. They'rewonderful. They're beautiful.
They're amazing. They're weird.
They're crazy. And you seepeople who suddenly go put a
picture on and go, Okay, whatwhat, what is this? And you're
like, Haha, I know is weird,isn't it? And then you'll get
(31:04):
remember that, you know, you'llhave a smile when you talk about
these creatures. And you'relike, you know what, we need to
remember that it's not childishto talk about our passion. And
that's what I think we we asadults, we forget, you know,
inside me, the four year oldnever got any bigger, genuinely
well, it grew in physical shape,definitely. But you know, in
(31:28):
mental shape. I'm still animmature who giggles at things
all the time. So that is myadvice.
Steve Roe (31:39):
Dr. Erica McAlister has been brilliant having you on
Thank you very much.
Dr Erica McAlister (31:42):
Thank you very much go out and collect
everyone.
Steve Roe (31:48):
A huge thanks to Erica for spending her morning
with me. As you heard there, thenumber of bat flies from the UK
in the collection is reallyrather small. So it would be
great if we could send anEctoparasite specimens from as
many species of bat as possiblefrom as many habitats and roosts
as possible. All the info youneed about submitting specimens
to Erica is in the show notes,along with links to pictures of
(32:11):
bat flies. And of course, thatnow famous image by Piotr
Nasreki. Just before we go backchat listener Beverly has got in
touch with the show, using thevoicemail link that's in the
show notes.
Beverley (32:21):
Hi, my name is Beverley, volunteer with Loch
Lomond bat group up in Scotland.
My role as Education andOutreach Officer has involved me
doing quite a few talks andwalks this year for local
groups. I think my favouriteexperience was at the end of
about walk that I had been doingwith the Loch Lomond scouts. And
along the side of the riverleaving which flows out of Loch
(32:45):
Lomond. We got back to the carpark where the parents were
picking them up. And there was apair of bats just circling
around and round the street lampfrom where we started just
sitting the detectors off likemad clicking and buzzing. And
the kids could hear everythingwe were doing, as well as having
the experience of seeing themflying round their heads. And
(33:06):
they were thrilled want to takethem home. And I just love bats
because they always put on agreat show and they're amazing.
Thank you.
Steve Roe (33:18):
Thanks for that message. Beverley. I bet Loch
Lomond is a fantastic place towatch bats. Now. If you find
yourself wondering what to do inbetween Christmas and the New
Year, please do get in touchwith the show to tell us about a
special bat sighting you hadthis year or a site you think
everyone should go and visit towatch bats. Whatever your story
we really want to hear from you.
So do get in touch. Thevoicemail link is in the show
notes. And don't worry, you canhear your message back and
(33:40):
rerecord it. If you don't likeit before sending it to us. We
can't wait to hear from you.
Next time we have a reallyspecial interview for you from
the Batman of Mexico, Dr.
Rodrigo Medellin, I hope you allhave a lovely festive break and
in the meantime, I'll leave youwith a teaser from that next
episode with Rodrigo
Rodrigo Medellin (33:59):
Of course I went oh my god, what is this?
The big years the nose leave thewings. Everything was just
blowing my mind away. So Istarted describing I said well I
don't know I think it may belistening for insects. So he
takes that out and he putsanother one and what does he do
(34:21):
and so on and so forth. So inthat one cave, I got to know the
vampire bats, a couple ofinsectivorous bats and the
lesser long-nosed bat as well.
This is BatChat from the Bat Conservation Trust the
podcast for anyone who lovesbats. We're bringing you the
stories from the world of batconservation, from the people on
the ground, doing work thatfurthers our understanding of
these magical creatures. There'sa lot of information experience
and stories out there. And we'rebringing it right to you. I'm
Steve Roe. I'm an ecologist aswell as a trustee of the Bat
(00:31):
Conservation Trust. You can jointhe conversation online using
the hashtag BatChat that's allone word. This week we're back
at London's Natural HistoryMuseum delving into the
collections. The 56th WildlifePhotographer of the Year awards
featured an image of aMozambican long fingered bat
with what appeared to be aspider attached to his face.
(00:51):
Yes, this week rather than goingthrough drawers of bats were in
the diptera collection with flygirl herself, the senior curator
of flies and fleas Dr. EricaMcAlister. In this episode,
we're discovering the lives ofwingless critters that live on
bats, bat flies, it's hard notto be taken in by Erica's
enthusiasm in this episode. Andshe has an important task for
those of us who handle bats on aregular basis. So I'm sat in a
(01:18):
glass sided room in somewhere inthe back of the Natural History
Museum with Dr. Erica McAlister,who is the Senior Curator of
flies and fleas here at theNatural History Museum. And I
probably need to start thispodcast with an apology because
when Professor Kate Jones findsout that fly girl has been on
the podcast before she has I'min big trouble. I take it off
(01:40):
air you are both very goodFriends.
Dr Erica McAlister (01:41):
Yeah no Kate's wonderful, but obviously
we can't tell the world that canwe!
Steve Roe (01:46):
So everyone knows you as fly girl, but you actually
hand reared a Jamaican fruitbatcalled Suzie out in the
Caribbean. Can you tell us moreabout that? And then we'll get
onto the flies?
Dr Erica McAlister (01:54):
Well, well, I It wasn't just me there was.
I've spent a lot of time goingback and forth from Dominica.
It's very good. And I work withan organisation called Operation
Wallacea. And we have lots ofstudents that come from all over
the world. And they come andhelp us scientists do various
different projects, minds,obviously looking at the best
creatures, the insects,specifically the flies, but I
(02:15):
was working alongside the batfolks. And one of them Melissa.
She is a Canadian, and she is avery good as well as doing all
the bat surveys and try and dobat research in Canada. She's
one of the bat rehabilitators soshe will look after injured
bats. We have a great fun. Oncea week we go canyoning. So we go
charging up and down canyons andon one of these trips, she found
(02:38):
this Jamaican fruit bat at animmature one at the base of the
canyon. So she's umming andahing, umming and ahing, and
what to do with it, and she waslike, Do you know what I will
hand rear it. She had five weeksthat she was going to be on this
trip before it ended. And it wasgoing to be like, let's go for
it. And we're all living in acommunal area together so she
just turned up one day look gota bat and we were like, okay,
(02:59):
and Suzie, as she became known,took an absolute liking to her
and me, which was really cute,because I'll be sitting there
and as his bat, like, sitting onme in my air. And I have to say,
I know, I know I shouldn't dothis. But when the bat was
purring, you know, when you comehome from a hard day in the
(03:21):
field, and then the bat suddenlylaunches itself at you. And in
the early days, it would justkind of like start all over the
place and whatever you pick itup, and then when it starts to
fly, you come home and it getsinto your chest and start
purring. I was like a tinylittle, like, fur flying cat.
You know, it was like, butslightly, obviously better than
(03:42):
a cat. So yeah, so it was quiteamazing. And we were lucky to
get work with the ForestryCommission out there. And
Melissa was able to release itback to an area of a known
colony and they were able tocarry on monitoring so fingers
crossed. Susie has gone on witha little memory of two lovely
people helped her Yeah, bless ohmy gosh, when she used to eat
(04:06):
mangoes though bats are messy!All over the place. And she was
like she was drunk. We had to becareful about what mangoes we
gave up because, well firstdefinitely times your like Suzi
behave. But yes, it was quite anexperience. 2015 Gosh, not long
ago, but it was quite amazing.
Steve Roe (04:27):
So I'll be honest, I know nothing about bat flies at
all spent last night researchingthere's absolutely nothing. I've
seen them in real life whenwe've handled bats and you see
them they look a bit like fleascrawling around.
Dr Erica McAlister (04:40):
I think they drunk spiders. Yeah. Yeah. So
when you go to grab them withthe little forceps. They just
did did it and they go each andevery way. You know, they're
like the queen on the chessboardand go absolutely anywhere. And
they are that just like tinycrabs. You know, they've got
that scuttle like move meant, soI just think they're quite fun.
(05:02):
Obviously bats hate it. Becausewhen you're trying to pick off
these bat flies, bats get reallymoody really quickly. And yeah,
so it has caused a lot of, youknow, bats swearing when I tried
to remove them.
Steve Roe (05:16):
Yeah, I mean, the ones I've seen look like crabs.
So for for listeners who haven'tseen them or aren't sure, can
you just describe them otherthan they look a bit like a
crab.
Dr Erica McAlister (05:26):
So first off, there's two families about
flies, there's Nycteribiidae,and there's Streblidae. And we
won't get the Streblidae overhere. They are generally found
in the more western world, thetropics or subtropics, but we
definitely get the Nycteribiidaehere. Now there are only three
species in the UK. Okay. Yeah,so there's not many of them, I
(05:47):
think it's 17 across Europe. Andthey are, imagine a fly and then
destroy every image you have ofwhat you think fly looks like
because they have most of themwell Nycteribiidae are wingless.
And if they have eyes, they'revery small, very reduced. They
(06:08):
have some of them haveextraordinary long legs, spindly
legs, and then most fantasticclaws at the end of them,
because they're supremelyadapted to living on their
hosts, the bats.
Steve Roe (06:19):
The one image of bat flies that seems to become quite
famous Piotr Naskrecki was indownstairs in the in the
wildlife photographer of theyear it's just sat on the face
of a Mozambique
Dr Erica McAlister (06:32):
I interviewed him. We had a lovely
chat about it. And we just wentoff completely on them. I mean,
what an amazing experience. Andhe has a great job of going out
there and looking at them. Andbeing a photographer who's spent
a lot of time he's able to giveus so much observatory data,
which is great when you knowwe're getting lots of new stuff.
(06:53):
And it is it's a bit it's a bitof a weird image because it
makes the bat fly look enormous.
And then not really you know,don't imagine a greater paper
straw with a thing that big onits head. So it's a small bag.
It's a weird image, but it isquite stunning visualisation?
Yes, it's
Steve Roe (07:11):
great. And really hairy as well, aren't they
Dr Erica McAlister (07:14):
Hirsute young man hirsute! Yes. And
they're meant to be hairy. Imean, you know, some of them are
hairy. Actually, some of themare quite bald. It really does
depend on the species. But itdoesn't, you know, that enable
the hairs are sensory organs.
And it also enables them to, youknow, snuggle in in their hairy
hosts.
Steve Roe (07:34):
So what purpose do they serve in ecology? You know,
what they're feeding on? Andwhat's the lifecycle? So we know
of,
Dr Erica McAlister (07:40):
okay, I just rolled my eyes, for the
listeners, because what purposequestion is one that I would
just slam at the ballparkstraightaway mate. What's the
purpose of humans? Right. So areyou asked me what their
ecological roles are? Okay,that's a different story. And
will they are basicallyEctoparasites. So this is their
(08:03):
role. And they do it very well.
They have co evolved,presumably, after the expansion
of the mammalian radiation batflies are in the Cyclopodia,
which are some of the morerecently evolved species of
flies, so it does kind ofcoincide. The superfamily their
from the Hippoboscid, alsoinclude the Tsete, and the
(08:27):
Hippoboscoidea, which are thebird flies, but we presume they
weren't from bats to birds thatway around in evolution. So as
to their roles, that they're notpollinators. They're not doing
anything. They're just doingexactly what they want to do.
They are feeding on their house,and providing a supreme habitat
for the next generation.
Steve Roe (08:50):
And you mentioned Tsetse. And I was quite
surprised when I was researchingto find the bat flies give birth
to live young and then realisedthey were in the same family as
Tsetse, and then it all sort ofclicked and made sense.
Dr Erica McAlister (09:02):
I don't think people quite understand
how amazing that is. Genuinelystop and think about it. These
flies, all of the Hippoboscoideagive birth live now it's called
Adenotrophic viviparity. So theyproduce an egg, which hatches
and then they internally rear alarvae. So she's got lactating
(09:25):
glands on the inside. Now, thatis, there's nothing else that
does that. There are a fewexamples in the California the
the blue bottles, blue flieswhere they do that, but that is
it across the whole of theanimal kingdom. How, how weird
is that, given
Steve Roe (09:43):
that they've evolved alongside bats or since bats and
also, you know, found out whenlistening to the the infinite
monkey cage when you had aconversation with Kate said that
those live younger those fliesare about 40% of the weight of
the adults which is the same asbats is it just a coincidence or
is there a Is there somethingmore integral between the
relationship between bats andflies there?
Dr Erica McAlister (10:03):
I had no idea about the bats. Now that I
doubt it, I think there's,unless there's no I wouldn't
know.
Steve Roe (10:12):
So you mentioned that some are wingless, and some
retain their wings until theycan find a host. For the
wingless ones, you know how theymove in between these different
bat colonies and repopulate innew areas.
Dr Erica McAlister (10:22):
So they were generally stay to one host for
their entire life. Okay, theydon't, they don't move around.
It's not like they fall off, ifthey fall off, that's a problem.
So and that's probably whythey're quite rare. And probably
why there's quite a few problemswhen it comes to bats moving
around roosts, and things likethat. I mean, that's one way
they can move around if batsmove around, but if they kind of
(10:44):
get separated and lost, it'spros and cons, isn't it. So the
female, the males and femaleswill stay on the host or their
life, and they will only thefemale only come off when she's
about to give birth. And at thatpoint, she goes to whatever the
substrate the bats are on be ina tree or a cave. And at that
point, and the larvae will thenhave to find a new host. And
(11:07):
that's how it works.
Steve Roe (11:08):
I see. So it's there's a, I mean, do we know
how long that takes? And isthere a risk, then obviously, if
they leave the host and at batsmove on? For whatever
Dr Erica McAlister (11:16):
reason?
Exactly. So even they cansurvive a little bit without
feeding. But they do need toobviously get a host. Yeah,
Steve Roe (11:25):
It's very interesting. We'll talk more
about the number of specimensyou've got here at the history
museum and a bit when we go lookat the collection. You're
undertaking some research intobat flies. And that's where this
podcast came about. You've gotto you've got a random jar
things here in front of us, youknow, what is that research? And
how can we expect ecologistshelp you?
Dr Erica McAlister (11:45):
Okay, well, there's two things. So there's a
little bit of fun stuff fromDominica, which are these jars
of flies here. So again, back tothe colleagues, I've been
working over the Caribbean,we've been picking off these bat
flies for the last six years,seven years worth of data. And
we want to look at the hostspecifity. It's a terrible word
(12:06):
to say that for me, and we wantto live with as they're not
generally thought to be veryhost specific. So but we would
like to look in it. And it willbe interesting, because in terms
of disease transmission, andthings like that, it'd be very
good to understand what's goingon. So that's just me playing
around with those, we may havesome new species in there as
well, who knows. But in the UK,I am alongside a lovely lady
(12:32):
called Denise Wawman, we back in2020, launch the bat and bird
fly recording scheme. Now shehas the greater part of this,
because I have a whopping threespecies of which I need to be
start recording. However, thosethree species are very difficult
(12:53):
to record, because obviouslythey're on bats. And as you
know, unless you have a bathandling licence, it's very
difficult. Now, you know, I'vecome across bats in many
situation and and we all go outwith our little bat monitors.
And that's great. But it doesn'ttell me it's not we haven't got
a little bat, you know, bat flymonitor. That'd be amazing,
wouldn't it? If I could just goBeep Beep Beep like that. So
(13:15):
what I'm asking is for allpeople, a bat rehabilitators.
Anyone who does bat surveys,whatever, if you do come across
any of the ectoparasites, Iwould very much like them. And
that's any ectoparasites. Youknow what, yes, because I'm also
involved with the fleas. There'salso bat bugs, that's bat lice.
There's all sorts of things likethis, and actually doing a
(13:36):
comprehensive survey of actuallywhat's out there, I think would
be very useful.
Steve Roe (13:42):
I mean, I've literally just finished this
autumn doing autumn swarmingsurvey, seen handle lots of
bats, and almost all of thosebats have got some sort of
ectoparasites on it. Imagine Iwould imagine this time next
year, you'll be inundated.
Dr Erica McAlister (13:58):
And that's fine. That's fine. No is good. I
love an echo parasite. So that'svery good. And we are doing part
of the Darwin Tree of Life atthe Museum, we're very heavily
involved. So it'd be really goodto actually get some of these
fresh ethanols so we cansequence them and find out
what's going on.
Steve Roe (14:15):
So when people take these X parasites off, do you
want them to record whereaboutson the bat their found, whether
it's on the main body or on thewing? And then what's the best
way to get the sample to you andhow,
Dr Erica McAlister (14:27):
okay, so, first of all, in the strongest
solution of ethanol, 100% is thebest in vials, and you can pop
them into the post that's noproblem. You will be surprised
at how many flies are wingingtheir way around the post in the
world is quite amusing. Andafter data, so yes, I would like
species sex location age. We'retaking things like lactating
(14:55):
non-lactating if you if obviousthings like that position on the
bat will be Cool. And roost.
Yep. So I guess what you'll betaking all the data you'll be
taking in your surveys. I wouldjust like to crib that please.
Steve Roe (15:11):
Nice. So then you're all better workers get get a get
your flies into Erica next year,this jar you've got in front,
there's viles the whole jar isin solution. But then there's
jars inside with also solution,why the two into lots of
solution
Dr Erica McAlister (15:26):
to make sure that when the ethanol does not
dissolve, because we have to beso see, do you see that code?
Yeah. Do you know what speciesthat is? So they are, that's the
Jamaican fruit bat. So thislittle bat on the 12th of July
2019. gave me that little batfly.
Steve Roe (15:46):
And it really is teeny tiny.
I miss all his perspective,because I haven't got to burn my
hand. But actually, if I had aBatman that is quite large,
isn't it? Yeah.
Dr Erica McAlister (15:57):
I mean, that's kind of like a kiwi
walking around your body.
Imagine a kiwi with long legsjust walking around your body.
That's the sort of size of thinggoing on. So yeah, so I need to
go through these. I would dosome side mounts of them. I do
images, they have to have theproper labels. And then they go
into the collection. Talking ofwhich do you want to come? Yeah!
Steve Roe (16:26):
I've seen the outside of the egg?
Dr Erica McAlister (16:44):
Right, so we are in the collection.
Steve Roe (16:48):
So we've just walked through endless corridors, and
I've seen that little snapshotsof know where we are like the
outside of the darwin egg,roughly. Where are
Dr Erica McAlister (16:54):
we? Okay, so we're in the cocoon now. Now, I
know obviously, this is apodcast. But what you can see or
imagine, okay, is you've got onefloor, and there's 123456 rows.
And each row contains fouraisles of double sided cabinets.
(17:14):
Of which says, there's 28 peraisle of these cabinets. Okay,
now there's five floors ofentomology. And there's another
building, and then there's thepickles. So basically, what
you're basically looking at nowis 34 million insects. We can't
(17:34):
visualise that. And I can't. Imean, the Diptera collection,
we've only got between two and 4million. It's a bit of a guess.
And you'll understand why whenyou see some. But as long as the
pin specimens, these are theslide collection. This is the
beautiful Rothschild fleacollection. And we move on to us
(17:57):
with what was called prepare it.
And that's what the oldHippoboscidae used to be. I love
these askers predictions. Theseare the really ones these are
the mad crazy bat flies. Haveyou read about these? These are
the ones the females. There'sone feature of the females when
she gets pregnant. She rips herlegs off. So no wings off. Yeah,
(18:20):
go on about this one. Becauseit's like really, it is the best
example of bonkers in any animalis a come on cover what female
does that? So yes, these tiny, Imean, they are blobs on slides.
But we're trying to as I saidwe're trying to digitise the
collection. So we're goingthrough, and we're taking out
(18:42):
all of these collections. And weare taking them to be imaged
database. And,
Steve Roe (18:52):
and when you say image, that's the it's the stack
image and so you get a nice 3dimage
Dr Erica McAlister (18:56):
lately. So yeah, they've been imaged at the
moment. So this is what's goingon. They will offer imaging and
then these lot will get imaged.
So we have a little job to goyet. But as you can see most of
the collection and this isforeign, look at the little ones
on the amazing. The people thatthis is reflected in 1952 I love
(19:20):
it is by Jobling I love the factthat it says Jobling, Jobling
Jobling. And Theodore was a veryfamous collection collector as
well. But it's about time weadded to these collections.
Steve Roe (19:36):
So Eric was looking at so we're stood outside a very
nice polished wooden case andthat each tray is probably a
centimetre thick. And thenwithin each of those was several
dozen slides with with samplesin each of those. Yeah.
Dr Erica McAlister (19:52):
And then the pins, and this is the British
collection. So we keep theBritish Collection desperately
obviously because we have themost people coming from the
British. How many families ofbats? So, you know, there's more
species of fly in the UK thanthere are mammals on the planet?
(20:13):
Yes. Right. Well, Phoenix andstreps
Steve Roe (20:23):
do you find during the really hot summer days that
these rooms are much more busybecause they're temperature
controlled?
Dr Erica McAlister (20:28):
So it's interesting because they are
temperature controlled. So,humidity and temperature is
whatever. Now our Brazilianvisitors are freezing. But are
Russian visitors? Are like Yes,we had a lovely Russian lady a
couple of years back. And shewas 70 plus, it was best not to
(20:50):
ask. And she was going up anddown the ladders. And my
colleague it who was her hostwas really worried. And she's
like, Russian. I have survivedSiberian winters. This has
nothing to do you know what?
She's probably much better thanwe are so Absolutely. Right. You
ready for this? Enormous? Isn'tthe British collection?
Nycteribidae on pins.
Steve Roe (21:15):
I was gonna say one tray, not even one tray.
Dr Erica McAlister (21:18):
Kind of see?
Yes. So that hippoboscidae sothey don't even count. So that
is that is the pin collection.
Steve Roe (21:28):
How many of them 14 ish?
Dr Erica McAlister (21:32):
14 ish, yes.
Now obviously, most of the timenow we don't keep them in pin
collections. They are inpickles. Because it's a much
better way of storing them. Butthese are now all been
databased. They've all goneonline. And they were added to
the schemes and then added tothe atlas of UK observations.
And what we have though, is wehave some of the pupil cases. So
(21:55):
this is one of the species andthis is the colour of it. And
these are the ones associatedwith tree hosts. So Myotis
daubentonii and those species,so we get them there, whereas
the by articulator This is theone associated with cave bats,
(22:15):
the lesser and greaterhorseshoe, so I need people to
hang around in differentenvironments to get these
different ones. Yeah, and thenthey're obviously Brasilia Nana,
is the one on the Bechstein'sbat how rare is the Bechstein's
bat pretty, pretty rare? Andthat's the problem.
Steve Roe (22:35):
And we think and we and we don't know whether that's
host specific or we're do?
Dr Erica McAlister (22:38):
well, we don't think it is we don't think
Crazy. Have to say that I dolove them because they are just
any of us are truly hostspacific but again. Let's get
some data. Yeah. So there's alot of recent studies coming out
of Europe. It's been good onesand Slovenia, Crimea, all around
there. And that's really good.
But we could deal with someinformation here. So that'd be
great. To have a look at someunder a microscope. Yes.
(23:14):
weird.
Right. This is a microscope forsomebody who doesn't work, with
proper organisms this is whyKate always has a go at me. Stop
doing that Erica! Can't help it.
Now, what's amazing about theseis also their head. Okay, so if
(23:35):
you have a look down themicroscope, you want me to hold
that? When you look down themicroscope, so you'll see it's
quite a weird looking creatureat the best of times. And this
one's slightly dishevelled,because time has been not gentle
to it, bless it. But so you'vegot a very long legs, and you
(23:56):
can see really obvious claws,it's completely adapted to
living on fur. And these clawsare absolutely fantastic. And
enabling it to hold on. And ithas to absolutely because we
talked about earlier. But whatyou see it's got no wings, and
therefore it's got a very smallthoracic segment. And this is
because the, you know, the bigflight muscles are not
(24:19):
necessary. So it's much morereduced in other flies, other
insects etc. And the headtherefore when it's not feeding
at rest, kind of knots back intothe back. So as you see it
upwards, rather than forwards astraditional with all the other
flies. So it keeps its head outthe way the arrangement of their
bristles, their hairs, they haveall sorts of things, these all
(24:43):
diagnostic features to help us.
So I mean this one because ifpinned, it's going to be more
difficult to identify. Yeah, sothis is why we prefer them in
fNo. Nowadays, yeah. But tinylittle eyes. I mean, they don't
really need eyes. not hairy,what was the phrase you used?
Hirsute young man. I love it.
Yeah. Bless him. And she will,obviously because it's quite a
(25:07):
quite a process for her to getpregnant. They can copulate for
24 hours. Nice. Yeah, exactly.
Come back as one of those. Andwhat she will only give birth
about four or five times.
Steve Roe (25:22):
Okay. She's, I mean, you would, wouldn't you? So do
we know what the lifespan is?
Dr Erica McAlister (25:27):
Not really sure of all species that some of
them have been recorded forabout eight months, nine months?
It depends. If the adults getseparated from their hosts, some
will die within several days. Soit can be quite short.
Steve Roe (25:42):
So in terms of copulation, and a male's much
more roaming around backcolonies, how do they come
across one another?
Dr Erica McAlister (25:49):
No, they'll be on the same bat I think? Yes.
So seems a bit a bit. I know.
But bless him, he will be doingthat. And they both the males
and the females blood feed,which is unusual with blood
feeding insects. Usually, it'sjust a female who's doing it. So
we think about mosquitoes andother species like that. But
this is the both. And we thinkit's because he's got very
(26:12):
nutrient rich sperm. So it'sanother energy source of her
hence why she has such amazingoffspring 40% of your body
weight. It's just obscene, it'sjust like, you know, there's
pros and cons of these amazingcreatures. And that is
definitely a con for Oh, butshe's been she doesn't love it.
(26:32):
She's described as when shecomes off the bat, she will
reverse on to whatever thesubstrate is. And then the
larvae basically, it's in a prepre painted stage immediately
emerges. And then it pupatesthere and then she just shoves
it, she squashes it against thewall, which slept. What a hother
(26:52):
hey, it's just wonderful. Andthen quickly leaves it. I just
think I really do think we needto tell our human kids, they
have it very easy. They have noidea how bad life could be. You
imagine your mother's squashedto the fridge and go in here you
go go on with it. See,interestingly, this one has got
(27:14):
one the larvae beside it. Sothis is the pupil case and
they've obviously dissected outthe larvae. You see, it looks
really lifelike like that,because it's so constricted
together.
Steve Roe (27:30):
After looking at the sample that's at the bottom the
microscope just to get a senseof how small it is, is really
cool.
Dr Erica McAlister (27:36):
You know, I mean, this is it. It's
wonderful, isn't it? To seethem. I do love this species.
And then here's another piece ofwood next to it. And you can see
1234560 Wow, a tiny littlenursery, sort of that little
nursery as well as the bat.
Steve Roe (27:57):
So that piece of wood is probably two three
centimetres long. Yeah. And it'squite a gnarly piece of
Dr Erica McAlister (28:04):
bat fly's quite gnarly. Yeah, yeah.
Steve Roe (28:07):
And then there's tiny little going to hate this phrase
this tiny look like miniatureacorns just sort of like stuck
into the wood.
Dr Erica McAlister (28:17):
I could go with that very mature, acorn,
very dark brown. And this wascollected in 1934. Exactly. So
that's what I'm saying from HighWycombe. So we do need to kind
of go out there and startcollecting and we
Steve Roe (28:37):
think and will that have been from inside of that
kind of liking? Becauseobviously that's roosting inside
the tree like a will pick upsomething will have been from
inside the restaurant than Yeah,so
Dr Erica McAlister (28:45):
I presume it's gonna be on the inside.
Yeah, I mean, they're notthey're not daft. They're going
to be protected them. So yeah,so what, what people can do is
they can go online, because I'venow added all of these,
hopefully to our database. Sothey can go to the NHM portal,
and they can see our originalrecords. Although there's so few
of them, it really doesn'tmatter. So they anything if they
(29:09):
can either go to our recordrecords there, but preferably
specimens to me, because then Ican verify them. And that'd be
really, really handy. And maybewe could do some DNA from them.
It'd be great.
Steve Roe (29:23):
That's great. I had not idea there was anything like
that in bat roosts.
Dr Erica McAlister (29:27):
See this is the problem with you mammal
people. You just like get stuck.
And it's like no, wait, keeplooking. Keep looking. So you
got to see what the fleas itlike. And then you've got the
lice. And then you've got thebugs. You've got all of these.
We got sensor bugs recently backbugs, which is great because
we've sequenced them. Yeah,which is amazing. And they just
(29:47):
look like it's like nature kindof squashes things a lot. So
like you know, fleas aresquashed one way the bugs have
been squashed in alleyway. Thesehave been squashed a different
way. It's just Fine, there's alot of squashing going on. It's
quite
Steve Roe (30:02):
great. So you do a really good job of getting
people enthused about flies,which is, which is not, you
know, because they're amazing.
What tips would you give thosebad workers to get people the
public enthused about screenerswhich are not necessarily loved
by all?
Dr Erica McAlister (30:19):
So basically, just talk with the
heart, I got reminded thisrecently, actually, like, you
are you asked me straightaway,what's the ecological point of
something. And we do this asscientists, we spend so much
time we've got so involved withour subjects that we, we talk
about them as a secondaryobjects in many ways. And, you
(30:41):
know, we say, Oh, this speechhas been recorded here in here.
Now, what we need to do, and Ithink actually, what social
media has done as well, is tohighlight we really do love
these creatures. They'rewonderful. They're beautiful.
They're amazing. They're weird.
They're crazy. And you seepeople who suddenly go put a
picture on and go, Okay, whatwhat, what is this? And you're
like, Haha, I know is weird,isn't it? And then you'll get
(31:04):
remember that, you know, you'llhave a smile when you talk about
these creatures. And you'relike, you know what, we need to
remember that it's not childishto talk about our passion. And
that's what I think we we asadults, we forget, you know,
inside me, the four year oldnever got any bigger, genuinely
well, it grew in physical shape,definitely. But you know, in
(31:28):
mental shape. I'm still animmature who giggles at things
all the time. So that is myadvice.
Steve Roe (31:39):
Dr. Erica McAlister has been brilliant having you on
Thank you very much.
Dr Erica McAlister (31:42):
Thank you very much go out and collect
everyone.
Steve Roe (31:48):
A huge thanks to Erica for spending her morning
with me. As you heard there, thenumber of bat flies from the UK
in the collection is reallyrather small. So it would be
great if we could send anEctoparasite specimens from as
many species of bat as possiblefrom as many habitats and roosts
as possible. All the info youneed about submitting specimens
to Erica is in the show notes,along with links to pictures of
(32:11):
bat flies. And of course, thatnow famous image by Piotr
Nasreki. Just before we go backchat listener Beverly has got in
touch with the show, using thevoicemail link that's in the
show notes.
Beverley (32:21):
Hi, my name is Beverley, volunteer with Loch
Lomond bat group up in Scotland.
My role as Education andOutreach Officer has involved me
doing quite a few talks andwalks this year for local
groups. I think my favouriteexperience was at the end of
about walk that I had been doingwith the Loch Lomond scouts. And
along the side of the riverleaving which flows out of Loch
(32:45):
Lomond. We got back to the carpark where the parents were
picking them up. And there was apair of bats just circling
around and round the street lampfrom where we started just
sitting the detectors off likemad clicking and buzzing. And
the kids could hear everythingwe were doing, as well as having
the experience of seeing themflying round their heads. And
(33:06):
they were thrilled want to takethem home. And I just love bats
because they always put on agreat show and they're amazing.
Thank you.
Steve Roe (33:18):
Thanks for that message. Beverley. I bet Loch
Lomond is a fantastic place towatch bats. Now. If you find
yourself wondering what to do inbetween Christmas and the New
Year, please do get in touchwith the show to tell us about a
special bat sighting you hadthis year or a site you think
everyone should go and visit towatch bats. Whatever your story
we really want to hear from you.
So do get in touch. Thevoicemail link is in the show
notes. And don't worry, you canhear your message back and
(33:40):
rerecord it. If you don't likeit before sending it to us. We
can't wait to hear from you.
Next time we have a reallyspecial interview for you from
the Batman of Mexico, Dr.
Rodrigo Medellin, I hope you allhave a lovely festive break and
in the meantime, I'll leave youwith a teaser from that next
episode with Rodrigo
Rodrigo Medellin (33:59):
Of course I went oh my god, what is this?
The big years the nose leave thewings. Everything was just
blowing my mind away. So Istarted describing I said well I
don't know I think it may belistening for insects. So he
takes that out and he putsanother one and what does he do
(34:21):
and so on and so forth. So inthat one cave, I got to know the
vampire bats, a couple ofinsectivorous bats and the
lesser long-nosed bat as well.
Popular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.