March 23, 2022 • 36 mins
S3E34 Hidden amongst the boughs of an Oak tree, Steve & his guests look down over the Knepp Castle Rewilding Estate; former farmland which has been allowed to return to nature by the owners Isabella Tree & Charlie Burrell. In this episode, as the sun sets the light turns golden. Below us red deer begin to bellow at the start of the rutting season, a green woodpecker calls out from amongst the tussocky grassland and bats begin to flit about the Oak canopy they're stood in. Our guests in this final episode of season 3 are Ryan Greaves and Stephanie Murphy. Ryan tells us more about the Estate and Steph explains how bat surveys have evolved over the years.
- Follow Ryan and Steph on Instagram
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- Find out more about the greater horseshoes in Sussex
- Get more audio from Knepp by having a listen to their podcast
- Get the history of the Knepp Rewilding project here
- The bestselling book Wilding by Isabella Tree can be bought here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve Roe (00:00):
A warm welcome to the final episode of Series Three.
This week's episode comes to youon location from the Knepp
rewilding estate in West Sussex.
I'm Steve Roe, a BCT Trustee.
Welcome to BatChat, the podcastfrom the Bat Conservation Trust.
(00:37):
Yes, the end of another seriesis upon us, but series four is
already in the making. Andthere's more information on that
and how to get involved at theend of the show. So this
episode, as I said, comes to youfrom the famous Knepp Estate in
Sussex. I remember reading aboutKnepp for the first time in a
British Wildlife Magazinearticle back in 2016, but had no
idea of the successful story itwould become. We join our guests
(01:01):
Ryan Greaves and StephanieMurphy on an October's evening
last year, we're located inwhat's known as the middle block
of the states. We stood in atree house halfway up an oak
tree amongst its bows. As thesunsets the landscape starts to
turn golden. Red Deer in thefield below are starting their
rut. A green woodpecker callsout in the fading light and
unheard on the audio, bats beginto dance around the canopy of
(01:23):
the Oak that we're stood inrecording this episode.
So it's the start of October.
Autumn's finally here, and I'mstood in a tree house next to an
oak tree with Ryan Greaves andStephanie Murphy on the Knepp
Rewilding Estate. Thanks verymuch for coming on the show. Do
(01:45):
you just want to tell thelisteners what your role is here
at Knepp?
Ryan Greaves (01:51):
My name is Ryan.
I'm now one of the safari guideshere. I'm sort of known as the
main bat person on the estate.
But I also get involved in someof the education visits and some
of the reptile surveys and otherbird surveys and general
wildlife surveys on the state.
Stephanie Murphy (02:08):
Hi, my name is Steph Murphy. And my role in the
state is predominantly to beupdating bat surveys,
particularly around advancedtrapping surveys that have been
undertaken to measure how thestate has changed. And the bat
diversity has changed over anumber of years. I've been
(02:28):
working in partnership withRyan. And we often tie the
surveys into when we're doingother types of surveys such as
moths, surveys, and the batwalks for the safari attendees.
Steve Roe (02:41):
So you're doing all these different surveys, how
often are you guys on theEstate?
Ryan Greaves (02:45):
I'm lucky enough to live on the estate. My other
half runs the sort of campsitebusiness. So I'm one of the
lucky ones whose Knepp is mydoorstep.
Steve Roe (02:54):
And you surveying just that. So a bit of
everything. Yeah, so
Ryan Greaves (02:58):
I am part of the sort of general surveying team.
So I do a lot of reptile andamphibian surveys, bird surveys,
moth surveys, and just generalrecording. And when we're
leading sort of Safari groupsand an education visits, we're
out recording all the time.
Steve Roe (03:16):
Great stuff. So for listeners who don't know
anything about that, can you sumup its history for us.
Unknown (03:23):
It's an estate that was in sort of owned by certain
family for generations. And theyran it for many generations, in
traditional sort of West Sussexfarming style with a bit of sort
of cattle breeding and trying togrow arable and a bit of dairy.
And yeah, for many generations,with sort of, in a similar style
(03:45):
to the rest of the the localestates. So it was inherited by
Charlie Burrell, who now is themain owner of the estate. And he
tried for many years sort ofmaximise its profitability in
terms of trying dairy farming,arable planting stuff. But the
estate is on a sort of heavyclay, which makes it really hard
for growing anything. It's notgreat farming land. And it's
(04:07):
really hard for gettingmachinery out and that kind of
thing. So they ran it for manyyears and making a loss. And
then a chap called Ted Green,who sort of an ancient tree
expert came to visit the estatesort of look at some of the big
oak trees that were stillstanding whilst the rest of the
land was being farmed to the nthdegree. And he said, Have you
(04:29):
heard about this rewilding idea,which has mainly been taking off
in the Netherlands at the time.
So he said you could go andvisit a project over there. And
there's a site calledOostvaardersplassen, which is
sort of reclaimed from the sea,sort of a big sort of ranching
where you've got free roamingcattle and ponies, and it's
become an amazing sort ofbiodiversity hotspot. And so
(04:50):
yeah, they they went over thereand were greatly inspired and
thought maybe we could try this.
Try this in Sussex, I thinkfeedback of the a bit on that
rewilding journey since 2001.
Steve Roe (05:04):
Nice. I'm glad you pronounced Oostvaardersplassen
because I was terrified aboutsaying it. And I mean, we're,
we're studying nature and we canread this texts, starting the
rest of the autumn, can you forlisteners who may have read
about these states in Isabella'sbook or have read about it in
the press? Can you just try andtake listeners on a audio
(05:24):
journey of what it sort of looksand feels like to walk through
the state as it is today?
Ryan Greaves (05:28):
Sure. So it's in sort of three main sections sort
of separated by roads. And thosesort of equals in the southern
block the middle block in thenorthern bluff, they've all got
perimeter fences, but thenorthern block is sort of a sort
of wetland open, sort of, sortof pasture II type. So I've got
the Longhorn cattle movingthrough there. But it's mostly
sort of pasture and a bit of wetareas, the middle block, is
(05:53):
looks sort of like almost likeyour traditional Deer Park, but
it's becoming more and morewild. And then the southern
block of the estate is a reallyinteresting place that we call
the wild land. So when therewilding started, it was still
still being in the sort ofagricultural planting stage,
trying to grow things arable,are really and they didn't have
(06:13):
the money to put the fencing into put the grazing animals in.
So they took all the fields outof production over a course of
about six years. And then duringthose six years, there's nothing
to graze it. So all thevegetation sort of pulsed out
and the kind of all the seeds inthe hedges sort of spread into
the middle of the field, and youstart to get young trees and
lots of scrub to grow up. So thesouthern block looks kind of
(06:36):
quite African very scrubby. Andeach each field is kind of its
own sort of mosaic of differenttypes of habitat. And, and, and
the animals sort of move quitefreely through the estate. So
you've got Longhorn cattle,which I mentioned before, you
mentioned the red deer. We'vealso got herds of fallow deer,
and we've also got x moreponies, sort of wild ponies, and
(07:00):
Tamworth pigs. So there's sortof a range of grazing and
browsing styles. And they Yeah,they're, they're free to move
however they want through theestate, and they kind of are the
drivers for the rewildingproject. So it's quite a
dynamic, what we call it used tobe a mosaic. And that's a
kaleidoscope of habitats.
Steve Roe (07:18):
And in walking through from where we've parked
the cars and walking on to thisbed, feels very nice about
slowly walking along thefootpath. It's like, oh, there's
got to be better stuff. Wasthere ever a baseline survey
done? If that's before theproject happened? Yeah,
Unknown (07:32):
there was actually Frank Greenaway, who's was
probably the first knownbarbastelle expert really in the
UK, he did survey here in 2008.
And Frank had recorded so theMens is not too far from from
here. So there was nobarbastelle colonies kind of
(07:53):
long. But he did a baselinesurvey in 2008. He found a good
number of species, but not butkind of more your typical
species, um, high numbers ofcommon purpose trails. Brown
long-eared's, Natterer's. Herecorded barbastelles on bat
detectors, but didn't catch themdidn't capture any Bechstein's.
(08:17):
So he was doing remotemonitoring with automated bat
detectors. Far less probablyadvanced as the ones that are
now and and he was also doingtracking surveys. So he had a
mixture of both. And he'd doneit over all around this these
days, where they planned to dochange to the river restoration
(08:37):
in the woodland mosaic area. Soit was all targeted at the areas
which are proposed to change. Soand in some areas that Frank
said, these are good for bats,as well. So so there was a
baseline survey done by by Frankin 2008. And so there was
whiskered bats. Brandt's Ibelieve were recorded. And and
(09:00):
then there was noctules,serotines on the detectors as
well. And I think that was aboutabout it's it's like seven or
eight species recorded.
Steve Roe (09:14):
And do we know how that populations have changed in
that time?
Ryan Greaves (09:18):
As far as we know.
So 2008 would have been sort ofseven years into the rewilding,
as far as you know, before thatthere was only been five species
recorded on the estate. So we'renow up to 13. Which is pretty
good, good going. And yeah,we're from your site based on
your surveys. We're seeing sortof more female that's using the
site and perhaps more maternityroost and more breeding activity
(09:42):
on this day, which is veryencouraging.
Unknown (09:47):
And we identified in 2018 maternity colony of
Bechstein's on this date for thefirst time, which is in a
woodpecker hole, which isfantastic. So there's a
colleague count of About 31bats, which is, which is
fantastic. And there's numbersof soprano pips, oh huge, huge
(10:11):
colonies soprano pips in bothhouses, trees. So a real Yeah.
And and a barbastelle bat,albeit a male but but roost
roosted on in one of the woodenbox blocks on the Moors to the
south of southern block in themosaic area in 22,018 as well.
(10:36):
So yeah, so that was it was whatoverall the numbers of species
have increased? It's verydifficult to say the number of
bats have increased because thatpasses you know the the inherent
bias of recording you don't knowif one bat flew past 10 times or
you know, there's 10 basspassing ones, but fair to say
(10:58):
there's definitely more females.
And Ryan's been picking up a lotof Ryan deals with a lot of the
people that live on the estatethat deal with the bats and the
properties. And I think thereare pretty much bats in the
majority of the properties onthe state certainly.
So a lot of the buildings wherepeople are living or working are
now sort of used for forbusinesses used as bit office
(11:18):
space, but they're still prettyhotspots for bats. And most of
the old farm buildings do havebrown long-eared's and
pipistrelle. Certainly and quitea few of them have whiskered
houses that we have is that mostlocal church I think the local
windmills got that throughthinking there's a very large
soprano of Colony just just justright yeah, so that's, that's
(11:43):
part of the sort of National BatMonitoring Roost colony counts
that we do every year and I'vebeen doing it for about four
years and it's gone from sort ofI think it was 80 or 90 to over
300 coming out every night sothat's a good sign.
Steve Roe (11:58):
So there's two of you so between you should be able to
list all 13 species go for it.
Unknown (12:04):
Okay, soprano pipistrelle, common pipistrelle.
Nathusius' pipistrelle roostingon the estate in a house.
serotine, noctule, through Ithink Leisler's was picked up
whiskered,
Stephanie Murphy (12:21):
Brandt's
Ryan Greaves (12:25):
Daubenton's, Natterer's, Bechstein's,
barbastelles,
Stephanie Murphy (12:31):
brown long-eared,
Steve Roe (12:32):
so as the estate's changed and the new habitats
have come through, have you gotany ideas of which of the new
habitat seem to be best for batseither foraging or and or
roosting?
Unknown (12:43):
Yeah, I mean, the one I mean, what's amazing is the mill
pond and hammer pond. Both ofthose are fantastic sites. We've
there's a roost just over theMill Pond across from where we
standing, I think there's 70 oddDaubenton's that was in a tree
and watching them swoop overover the pond is quite quite a
(13:05):
sight. It's in addition to thesoprano poops, it's it can be it
sounds like mayhem on the backdetectors. So that's that's,
that's really nice of the theriparian habitats are definitely
better. It's hard to know whatit was like before.
Ryan Greaves (13:22):
Yeah, so I guess the sort of large water bodies
and the woodland around that areprobably the well established
habitats, but now you've got thekind of scrubland and all the
kinds of nectar sources. And sothe lands not got any pesticides
sprayed on it anymore. Thehedges are no longer sort of
flailed. And they're sort ofswelling out. And the planes are
(13:44):
being reinstated. There's a lotmore water on the estate. And so
hopefully, everything's just abit more well connected.
Unknown (13:50):
Yeah, there was definitely in comparison to the
Stephanie Murphy (13:50):
And you mentioned the surveys during
study in 2008. There wasdefinitely a lot more bats
there. So what sort of methodsare you using now to survey bats
caught on the floodplain thanthere were in Yeah, in the
original study. And it's quitedifficult to catch back to the
on this day?
floodplain because it's quiteopen habitat. But we were
Unknown (14:11):
Well, this was a specific project where we
definitely hearing a lot moreback passes. So So allow it I
guess, it was mostly soprano,pipistrelles, but I guess
allowing those bats who disperseallows for other bats to move in
and make use of, of the otherhabitat that's available within
these days.
(14:39):
measured the baseline and thenwe repeated exactly the methods
that that Frank did so we hadlike a like for like comparison
last year, so that those thesurveys methods were transacts
leaving out automated staticdetectors, and doing trapping
and radio tracking, and thendoing risk counts of of the. So
(15:05):
the bats that we really attract.
For those who aren't familiarwith radio tracking, it's we
catch bat in either Mist nets orharp traps, we attach a
transmitter to the bat, and thatenables us in the daytime to
find the frequency of thattransmitter and locate it roost.
And if we're lucky enough, it'llbe in a nice, visible woodpecker
hole from the ground level, andwe can count them out. If we're
(15:28):
unlucky, it will be from groundlevel in somewhere in the canopy
that we can't see from groundground level. And we just have
to make a best estimate. We filmthem on infrared cameras and
thermal imaging coming out ofthe wrist so we can get accurate
risk counts, because obviously,it's quite difficult at night to
see everything coming out of thetrees. And so you can look back
(15:51):
at other recordings the next dayand see accurately check and how
many how many bats you had. Andit's quite good as well for
getting calls of cryptic specieslike the Myotis calls for
Bechstein's and and Daubenton's.
And as he helps collect thedatabase of library calls, as
(16:14):
soon as it's fed into that workas well, which has been been
quite important. So yeah,they're generally the methods
that we've used, obviously, withCOVID. Last year, the methods we
use requite restrictive, so wewere unable to capture a handle
that so for the first into 2018,we had, and 2017 2018, we had a
(16:38):
project licence, which was ascientific conservation licence,
which had a purpose to measurethe baseline, you know, compared
to a year on year, at the momentdue to the COVID precautions
from the IUCN guidelines. Sotherefore, we've been using non
invasive methods. Ryan has beenmainly leading on the bat walks
(17:00):
and bat talks and just using batdetectors and and obviously,
contributing to the MB NP, I'llpass it over to Ryan to let you
know how many
Ryan Greaves (17:10):
Yeah, so I monitor I think, five or six different
properties on the estate andtheir back colonies. And how
numbers are changing there,which is sort of a good year on
year comparison, are also quitelucky that as net has grown in
sort of popularity and interest,we get a lot more volunteers
wanting to get involved insurveys so and other different
(17:32):
types of surveys, so birdsurveys or, or general surveys,
but they've been gettinginvolved in sort of audio moths
leaving out static detectors andrecording. And we've also got a
new regenerative agricultureproject. So a lot of the fields
is owned by the owned by theestate, but aren't part of the
rewilding project, they're nowgoing to be farmed in different
(17:53):
ways, sort of monitor how theycan sort of improve soil
quality, or just monitor how theland will improve. So sort of
some of the fields will bepasture, some of them will be
growing, some of them will beputting chickens on and sort of
rotating throughout the year.
And so we've just started doingthe baseline for those cars,
bats are going to be a key partof of how those, that project is
(18:13):
benefiting wildlife.
Steve Roe (18:18):
So for like the transect surveys you've been
doing how does that happen yearafter year? Obviously, as the
landscape changes, presumably,it's very hard to suddenly dive
through a load of scrub, how doyou manage that sort of
challenge.
Ryan Greaves (18:28):
Most of the estate has footpath, that sort of
general public footpath thatneeds to be maintained. So you
can currently get around theedges. And they're all most of
them were farmed fields. So theyall have hedges, and they all
have ditches that you can kindof make your way around or find
gaps in the hedges to kind ofsqueeze around. But it does get
(18:49):
a little bit more rambley everyyear and a lot more tripping
over. But you get
Unknown (18:54):
Yeah, I did have a rather large pig with his head
in my harp trap. One eveningwhen we were catching that, and
I didn't know who was going towin the pig, the pig or the bat
at that point. I just had topolitely wait for the pig to
(19:14):
lose interest in the harp trapand then and let them go on
their merry way. But they'rejust mostly curious. I think
they're very, very
Ryan Greaves (19:22):
curious. I haven't got very good eyesight but
something new and smelly willdefinitely Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Roe (19:28):
So outside of COVID times when you are doing the
harp trap and mist netting andhow often you on sites. How many
nights of the year do you reckonyou're here?
Unknown (19:35):
Probably about three.
Yeah, about three less it's aspecific unless it's for a
specific project.
Yeah, and we run normally threeor four. We combined with bats
with moths because our headecologist here at the estate is
called Penny Green and she andher husband are kind of chairs
(19:57):
of the local moth group sothey're big on moths, whereas we
bring the kind of bat side ofit. And it's a nice kind of
quirky, very niche, but a verypopular Safari. So yeah, we get
people out. And we've tried tocoincide a bit of either
trapping or some kind of generalsurveying with those safaris to
show people how the, the batsand other things are being
(20:19):
monitored.
Stephanie Murphy (20:19):
So last people see bats in the hand, the food
that they eat, and here batswith the bat detector, so it
gives them the whole experiencereally, which is quite nice.
Steve Roe (20:29):
You've asked the last question, because I was gonna
say, bat walks sell out prettyquickly. What do you reckon is
that draws people in but Isuppose you've nailed thaton the
head really! How did you bothget into that? What is it about
that that made you stand out onthe trails with me?
Unknown (20:46):
Well, I grew up in the west of Ireland, and my nan had
a an outbuilding. She was a pigfarm, which had lesser
horseshoes. So I used to befascinated by the mud. I could
hear the because because what Imy my hearing was good when I
was young. I could hear thefunny. They sounded like the
(21:10):
Clangers almost Yeah. And Icould hear the kind of very
pitch noisy so my gut needs tofascinate me eyes. And so when I
went to university, Istraightaway pestered David Hill
and Frank Greenaway to let mework at Ebanoe with them. Join
(21:33):
us us expat group before I wentto university, I think. And
yeah, just just just pester themto let me come out with them on
bad surveys as often and asfrequently as possible, say, as
until I became a usefulirritant. And they Yeah, I just
(21:57):
I enjoy being out at night. Ienjoy being out in the
countryside at night. I knowpeople find that a bit odd. But
I enjoy being out in the woodsat night I find it is quite
common. I was always feel good.
After coming home after a goodnight out doing bat surveys. Not
cold wet night, but a goodsummer's night. You just it's
(22:18):
just it's a very satisfyingsleep you get after it as long
as you don't have to get up toemails the next day. But yeah,
in when I started off, the paywas a lot. It was a lot easier.
Only didn't have the day jobwhen you were a student, it was
definitely a lot easier to do.
But yeah, the passion is stillthere.
(22:38):
Right? I didn't quite grow up aswild as stiff. I was in the
middle of Brighton. I remember.
I think most people in the backworld have heard of Jenny Clark,
who's like, who run the Sussex,bat hospital for about 30 years.
And I remember her coming to myinfant school when I was about
six or seven and showing us batsthat really stuck with me. And
(23:00):
then sort of wildlife was what Iwas interested in. I went to
university studied Zoology atSouthampton, and my dissertation
project was about bats and sortof comparing that feeding
activity on sites. So I wentback to Brighton and found the
best bat sites around Brightonand even sort of right in the
middle of town in Brighton youget Sarah teen sort of circling
(23:22):
around in the parks, which isreally, really quite exciting.
So yeah, so finished Universityjoined the bat group. And just
been more and more involved andmore and more fascinated over
the years.
Steve Roe (23:36):
In terms of visitor impact on that. I mean,
obviously it's a revolvingstate, how many visitors do you
have each year?
Ryan Greaves (23:45):
I'm not sure the exact number on I know there was
35,000 just sort of walkingvisitors last year who weren't
staying on the campsite orvisiting for a safari. So it
must have been sort of 75,000 orsomething like it's a lot a lot
of people and I came here in2015. And it was still sort of
(24:06):
in its infancy in terms of thetourism side of the business and
sort of spreading the word aboutrewilding, but yes, it's really
exciting and rewarding place towork. But yeah, there's a lot of
a lot of people and we try andkeep people on the footpath. So
there's areas where the wildlifecan retreat to if it if they
want some peace and quiet butyeah, it's it's really nice.
(24:29):
It's not only people inconservation, but it's really
crossed over to a wider audiencewith some of the kind of big
reintroduction projects thathave happened with the storks
and that kind of things. It'sit's crossing over, but a lot of
people,
Steve Roe (24:42):
a lot of people and once you recognise about the
project that's inspired thepublic or grab their attention.
You know, what hasn't made Kneppso popular?
Ryan Greaves (24:51):
I think rewilding is quite an exciting idea and
does you know the talk about thelarge predators like wolves and
the Lynx and you know, As andall that kind of stuff does
spark conversation. Or we don'thave enough land to have wolves
and Lynx. Unfortunately, we didthe we did the math and it was
about half a lynx. But yeah, Ithink it's nice to have a
(25:16):
positive conservation storiesand, and you have species like
turtle dove and Nightingale thatdeclined by like 98% in the last
50 years and on the estate eachyear the numbers are going up
and things like cookies and thebats that we've talked about and
purple Emperor butterflies, allthese charismatic, declining
species are now returning andrecovering a place like this. So
(25:40):
yeah, I think people are alwaysor need positive conservation
stories because it can be a bitdoom and gloom.
Steve Roe (25:47):
So in her book, Wilding Isabella mentions,
that's a number of times and shementioned that she used to go
down and watch Frank Greenawaydo the trapping. Does she still
come out? Does she still havethat interest?
Stephanie Murphy (25:59):
I'm sure she certainly does have this
interest. But I'd imagine she'squite a busy lady. As the as the
site has significantly developedas a, you know, rewilding site.
It's a tough business now withthe safaris and everything. But
as Ryan mentioned, the site nowhas its own estate ecologist who
(26:21):
fulfils that role, I guess. AndPenny does come out on the bat
surveys. Quite a lot. And yeah,I'm sure Isabella would like to
come up, but it's often packedfull of people.
Ryan Greaves (26:39):
I think considering how much they have
on they are still very hands onwith every aspect of the estate.
But they are now sort of theiradvocates through rewilding. And
there's a lot more peopleinterested in rewilding from
both the business and the sortof ideological point of view. So
their time is spare time is veryprecious. Short. Yeah, exactly.
(27:03):
So yeah, that they're alwaysasking about what's going on and
keeping in touch witheverything. But they're here
there and everywhere trying tohelp people other other people
start rewilding projects.
Steve Roe (27:15):
So what do you reckon the future looks like for the
conservation of bats and Knepp?
Is there a conservation strategyin mind? And what would success
even look like?
Unknown (27:24):
I think that the big idea now with with Knepp is that
we, we kind of know that whatwe've done here is is benefiting
wildlife is benefitingbiodiversity, but it's about
connecting up a wider area. Sowe've now got sort of a farm
cluster group with neighbouringfarmers, I think it's about 25
different farms, who maybe theymight try a little bit of
(27:49):
rewilding, or just trying toconnect up. So the plan is to
try and make sort of a wildcorridor from Knepp, which goes
down to the sea clumping. Andthen also goes up to the Ashdown
forest so we're hoping sort of aconnected highway of
biodiversity and maybe a fewmore little pop up nips here,
(28:09):
there and everywhere to justYeah, because bats are one of
those species that will becomequite isolated. If there's one
pocket of good habitat, theyneed a wider range of habitats.
So the idea is that connect upand give them a big network of
the suitable habitat but yeah,we're hoping that new species
will colonise with the greaterhorseshoe thing is quite
(28:31):
exciting. In West Sussex we'vegot now breeding greater
horseshoes in Sussex. So it'snot too far from the
it's I worked it out before. Soit's very excited. Actually, we
found a confirmed breeding roostof greater horseshoes. Probably,
(28:52):
it's about 15 miles as the batflies through here so well
within within their range. Andthe type of habitat for foraging
and feeding here is absolutelyperfect. So we've identified the
Sussex backrow have identified astable form a stable block at an
(29:14):
undisclosed currently location.
And it confirmed that we alwaysuse the odd bat here, and
obviously, they've got thecooking and singleton and
drovers, which are the SACs forbats, so for hibernation, and
then there was always the oddone or two there, but they're
the tunnels. Yeah, they're thetunnels. And so but we There was
never a confirmed breeding race,but there's also Oh, there must
(29:37):
be one somewhere there must beone somewhere. It was identified
in 2018 by Scotty and he's partof the Sussex back group. And
then they confirmed breedingthey put infrared cameras in and
confirm that. It's a very smallfounder colony. So the nearest
to put this into context, thenearest breeding colony is 100.
kilometres to the east endorses.
(30:02):
So it's quite a big jump andrange. So it's so we've worked
in partnership with the VincentWildlife Trust, to try and raise
money, we've raised enough moneywith the Sussex bat group to
take the building off themarket. So we've raised the
deposit, which is very exciting.
And and we're now kind of tryingto crowd fund and and have
(30:24):
various things for fundraisingevents to get the rest of the
building. But the idea is, it'snot just single species
conservation. The this is an,you know, a really important
species that was pretty much onthe brink of decline. And, you
know, as part of the work, thevintage wildlife trusts are not
(30:45):
just with bats, they work withother species as well. This will
allow through the networks ofhabitats and through Habitat
improvements, the species tomove east, they were in the home
counties, he used to be inLondon, you know, so 100 years
ago, they were they were inLondon. So, you know, they've
read this is, this could be avery, very good news story. And
just looking at some of thestructures on the net estate
(31:07):
that me and Ryan were spotted onthe way in some of the like
little ice houses and you know,kind of underground kind of
pumping stations and things.
These are exactly the type ofhabitat. So if we, you know, we
can get this founder colony kindof well established, its stone's
(31:29):
throw for this for the speciesto turn up here. And that would
be a very good conservationsuccess story.
Steve Roe (31:37):
Do you know if there are any long term plans with a
view to safeguard batconservation at Knepp?
Ryan Greaves (31:42):
so the estate's always looking at conservation
and all aspects we had, thatconservation trusts and bug
life's agents of the future backfrom the brink project here last
year, looking at some of ouryounger oak trees, thinking
about which ones are going to bethose kind of dominant oaks of
the future. Because if anyonecomes to visit, you'll notice
(32:05):
that there are some incredibleoak trees all over the estate,
including the one with Stanley.
And so yeah, those, they'relooking at ways that they can
make sure that these these bigmature trees are really healthy
and really viable for thefuture. In terms of any building
work that happens on the state,or any kind of development
projects, everything is sort ofconservation. And sustainability
(32:29):
is always put at the forefrontof that. So some of the
buildings that have had to havework done have sort of put
things in like opening upwhether boarding or putting in
back bricks and anything,everything they can do for bats.
And we've seen that that'salready worked on some of the
properties on the estate. So
Stephanie Murphy (32:49):
it certainly worked on the one with
enthusiast fan because that hadbeen recently refurbished. And
we miss who's never beenrecorded on the estate before
and, and it turned up in Yeah.
And one of the recentlyrefurbished houses, which was a
nice find.
Ryan Greaves (33:04):
Yeah, so that's all conservation. And that's a
really key part of that
Steve Roe (33:10):
Nice. Ryan and Steph, thank you very much.
Ryan & Steph (33:12):
You're welcome, Steve.
Steve Roe (33:17):
Thanks again to both Ryan and Steph. And you can
follow them on social media.
Their pages are in the shownotes. If you want to find out
more about net but there'splenty more info in our show
notes. And to Penny Green theirecologist hosts the Knepp
rewilding podcast, so you canget more audio from the site
there. Bats are magical butmisunderstood mammals. Here at
the Bat Conservation Trust, wehave a vision of a world rich in
(33:38):
wildlife, where bats and peoplethrive together. We know that
conservation action to protectand conserve bats is having a
positive impact on batpopulations in the UK, we would
not be able to continue our workto protect bats and their
habitats without yourcontribution. So if you can
please donate, we need yoursupport now more than ever, to
donate, please head to the linkat the bottom of the shownotes.
(34:01):
Thank you. And that brings us tothe end of series three of
BatChat. I really hope you'veenjoyed listening to our 12
guests this series and the BatConservation stories being told,
it really helps us as a show ifyou leave us a review about that
chat, either in a podcast app oron social media instructions of
how to leave a review or in theshow notes. And you can tag us
(34:21):
on social media using thehashtag BatChat. With BatChat,
we're reaching out to lovers ofbats all over the world. So if
you know someone who's neverlistened to a podcast before,
we'd love it, if you could showthem how to listen and how to
find BatChat. Recording forseries four is already underway
and will be coming later in theyear. We're looking for
participants to share backstories from across the UK with
(34:43):
the podcast. So if you'reworking on a great back project
or have a story about the batsin your area to share, please
drop us an email to the addressin the show notes. We hope you
all have a fantastic summergetting out there and enjoy
seeing bats in the night sky.
BatChat is an original podcastfrom the Bat Conservation Trust.
The series producer and editorwas me, Steve Roe. And I need to
(35:07):
give a huge thanks to all myguests this series because
without them this show wouldn'thappen. And to the
communications team of BCT, JoeNunez-Mino and Andrea Correia da
Costa for their fabulous workand support in promoting goes on
social media and linking to theepisodes on the BCT website. And
of course, without you listeningto us, there wouldn't be any
point in producing the show. Soa huge thanks to you guys, our
(35:30):
listeners for your ongoingsupport of the show. I'm going
to leave you with the sound ofbats hunting over the Knepp
rewilding Estate.
A warm welcome to the final episode of Series Three.
This week's episode comes to youon location from the Knepp
rewilding estate in West Sussex.
I'm Steve Roe, a BCT Trustee.
Welcome to BatChat, the podcastfrom the Bat Conservation Trust.
(00:37):
Yes, the end of another seriesis upon us, but series four is
already in the making. Andthere's more information on that
and how to get involved at theend of the show. So this
episode, as I said, comes to youfrom the famous Knepp Estate in
Sussex. I remember reading aboutKnepp for the first time in a
British Wildlife Magazinearticle back in 2016, but had no
idea of the successful story itwould become. We join our guests
(01:01):
Ryan Greaves and StephanieMurphy on an October's evening
last year, we're located inwhat's known as the middle block
of the states. We stood in atree house halfway up an oak
tree amongst its bows. As thesunsets the landscape starts to
turn golden. Red Deer in thefield below are starting their
rut. A green woodpecker callsout in the fading light and
unheard on the audio, bats beginto dance around the canopy of
(01:23):
the Oak that we're stood inrecording this episode.
So it's the start of October.
Autumn's finally here, and I'mstood in a tree house next to an
oak tree with Ryan Greaves andStephanie Murphy on the Knepp
Rewilding Estate. Thanks verymuch for coming on the show. Do
(01:45):
you just want to tell thelisteners what your role is here
at Knepp?
Ryan Greaves (01:51):
My name is Ryan.
I'm now one of the safari guideshere. I'm sort of known as the
main bat person on the estate.
But I also get involved in someof the education visits and some
of the reptile surveys and otherbird surveys and general
wildlife surveys on the state.
Stephanie Murphy (02:08):
Hi, my name is Steph Murphy. And my role in the
state is predominantly to beupdating bat surveys,
particularly around advancedtrapping surveys that have been
undertaken to measure how thestate has changed. And the bat
diversity has changed over anumber of years. I've been
(02:28):
working in partnership withRyan. And we often tie the
surveys into when we're doingother types of surveys such as
moths, surveys, and the batwalks for the safari attendees.
Steve Roe (02:41):
So you're doing all these different surveys, how
often are you guys on theEstate?
Ryan Greaves (02:45):
I'm lucky enough to live on the estate. My other
half runs the sort of campsitebusiness. So I'm one of the
lucky ones whose Knepp is mydoorstep.
Steve Roe (02:54):
And you surveying just that. So a bit of
everything. Yeah, so
Ryan Greaves (02:58):
I am part of the sort of general surveying team.
So I do a lot of reptile andamphibian surveys, bird surveys,
moth surveys, and just generalrecording. And when we're
leading sort of Safari groupsand an education visits, we're
out recording all the time.
Steve Roe (03:16):
Great stuff. So for listeners who don't know
anything about that, can you sumup its history for us.
Unknown (03:23):
It's an estate that was in sort of owned by certain
family for generations. And theyran it for many generations, in
traditional sort of West Sussexfarming style with a bit of sort
of cattle breeding and trying togrow arable and a bit of dairy.
And yeah, for many generations,with sort of, in a similar style
(03:45):
to the rest of the the localestates. So it was inherited by
Charlie Burrell, who now is themain owner of the estate. And he
tried for many years sort ofmaximise its profitability in
terms of trying dairy farming,arable planting stuff. But the
estate is on a sort of heavyclay, which makes it really hard
for growing anything. It's notgreat farming land. And it's
(04:07):
really hard for gettingmachinery out and that kind of
thing. So they ran it for manyyears and making a loss. And
then a chap called Ted Green,who sort of an ancient tree
expert came to visit the estatesort of look at some of the big
oak trees that were stillstanding whilst the rest of the
land was being farmed to the nthdegree. And he said, Have you
(04:29):
heard about this rewilding idea,which has mainly been taking off
in the Netherlands at the time.
So he said you could go andvisit a project over there. And
there's a site calledOostvaardersplassen, which is
sort of reclaimed from the sea,sort of a big sort of ranching
where you've got free roamingcattle and ponies, and it's
become an amazing sort ofbiodiversity hotspot. And so
(04:50):
yeah, they they went over thereand were greatly inspired and
thought maybe we could try this.
Try this in Sussex, I thinkfeedback of the a bit on that
rewilding journey since 2001.
Steve Roe (05:04):
Nice. I'm glad you pronounced Oostvaardersplassen
because I was terrified aboutsaying it. And I mean, we're,
we're studying nature and we canread this texts, starting the
rest of the autumn, can you forlisteners who may have read
about these states in Isabella'sbook or have read about it in
the press? Can you just try andtake listeners on a audio
(05:24):
journey of what it sort of looksand feels like to walk through
the state as it is today?
Ryan Greaves (05:28):
Sure. So it's in sort of three main sections sort
of separated by roads. And thosesort of equals in the southern
block the middle block in thenorthern bluff, they've all got
perimeter fences, but thenorthern block is sort of a sort
of wetland open, sort of, sortof pasture II type. So I've got
the Longhorn cattle movingthrough there. But it's mostly
sort of pasture and a bit of wetareas, the middle block, is
(05:53):
looks sort of like almost likeyour traditional Deer Park, but
it's becoming more and morewild. And then the southern
block of the estate is a reallyinteresting place that we call
the wild land. So when therewilding started, it was still
still being in the sort ofagricultural planting stage,
trying to grow things arable,are really and they didn't have
(06:13):
the money to put the fencing into put the grazing animals in.
So they took all the fields outof production over a course of
about six years. And then duringthose six years, there's nothing
to graze it. So all thevegetation sort of pulsed out
and the kind of all the seeds inthe hedges sort of spread into
the middle of the field, and youstart to get young trees and
lots of scrub to grow up. So thesouthern block looks kind of
(06:36):
quite African very scrubby. Andeach each field is kind of its
own sort of mosaic of differenttypes of habitat. And, and, and
the animals sort of move quitefreely through the estate. So
you've got Longhorn cattle,which I mentioned before, you
mentioned the red deer. We'vealso got herds of fallow deer,
and we've also got x moreponies, sort of wild ponies, and
(07:00):
Tamworth pigs. So there's sortof a range of grazing and
browsing styles. And they Yeah,they're, they're free to move
however they want through theestate, and they kind of are the
drivers for the rewildingproject. So it's quite a
dynamic, what we call it used tobe a mosaic. And that's a
kaleidoscope of habitats.
Steve Roe (07:18):
And in walking through from where we've parked
the cars and walking on to thisbed, feels very nice about
slowly walking along thefootpath. It's like, oh, there's
got to be better stuff. Wasthere ever a baseline survey
done? If that's before theproject happened? Yeah,
Unknown (07:32):
there was actually Frank Greenaway, who's was
probably the first knownbarbastelle expert really in the
UK, he did survey here in 2008.
And Frank had recorded so theMens is not too far from from
here. So there was nobarbastelle colonies kind of
(07:53):
long. But he did a baselinesurvey in 2008. He found a good
number of species, but not butkind of more your typical
species, um, high numbers ofcommon purpose trails. Brown
long-eared's, Natterer's. Herecorded barbastelles on bat
detectors, but didn't catch themdidn't capture any Bechstein's.
(08:17):
So he was doing remotemonitoring with automated bat
detectors. Far less probablyadvanced as the ones that are
now and and he was also doingtracking surveys. So he had a
mixture of both. And he'd doneit over all around this these
days, where they planned to dochange to the river restoration
(08:37):
in the woodland mosaic area. Soit was all targeted at the areas
which are proposed to change. Soand in some areas that Frank
said, these are good for bats,as well. So so there was a
baseline survey done by by Frankin 2008. And so there was
whiskered bats. Brandt's Ibelieve were recorded. And and
(09:00):
then there was noctules,serotines on the detectors as
well. And I think that was aboutabout it's it's like seven or
eight species recorded.
Steve Roe (09:14):
And do we know how that populations have changed in
that time?
Ryan Greaves (09:18):
As far as we know.
So 2008 would have been sort ofseven years into the rewilding,
as far as you know, before thatthere was only been five species
recorded on the estate. So we'renow up to 13. Which is pretty
good, good going. And yeah,we're from your site based on
your surveys. We're seeing sortof more female that's using the
site and perhaps more maternityroost and more breeding activity
(09:42):
on this day, which is veryencouraging.
Unknown (09:47):
And we identified in 2018 maternity colony of
Bechstein's on this date for thefirst time, which is in a
woodpecker hole, which isfantastic. So there's a
colleague count of About 31bats, which is, which is
fantastic. And there's numbersof soprano pips, oh huge, huge
(10:11):
colonies soprano pips in bothhouses, trees. So a real Yeah.
And and a barbastelle bat,albeit a male but but roost
roosted on in one of the woodenbox blocks on the Moors to the
south of southern block in themosaic area in 22,018 as well.
(10:36):
So yeah, so that was it was whatoverall the numbers of species
have increased? It's verydifficult to say the number of
bats have increased because thatpasses you know the the inherent
bias of recording you don't knowif one bat flew past 10 times or
you know, there's 10 basspassing ones, but fair to say
(10:58):
there's definitely more females.
And Ryan's been picking up a lotof Ryan deals with a lot of the
people that live on the estatethat deal with the bats and the
properties. And I think thereare pretty much bats in the
majority of the properties onthe state certainly.
So a lot of the buildings wherepeople are living or working are
now sort of used for forbusinesses used as bit office
(11:18):
space, but they're still prettyhotspots for bats. And most of
the old farm buildings do havebrown long-eared's and
pipistrelle. Certainly and quitea few of them have whiskered
houses that we have is that mostlocal church I think the local
windmills got that throughthinking there's a very large
soprano of Colony just just justright yeah, so that's, that's
(11:43):
part of the sort of National BatMonitoring Roost colony counts
that we do every year and I'vebeen doing it for about four
years and it's gone from sort ofI think it was 80 or 90 to over
300 coming out every night sothat's a good sign.
Steve Roe (11:58):
So there's two of you so between you should be able to
list all 13 species go for it.
Unknown (12:04):
Okay, soprano pipistrelle, common pipistrelle.
Nathusius' pipistrelle roostingon the estate in a house.
serotine, noctule, through Ithink Leisler's was picked up
whiskered,
Stephanie Murphy (12:21):
Brandt's
Ryan Greaves (12:25):
Daubenton's, Natterer's, Bechstein's,
barbastelles,
Stephanie Murphy (12:31):
brown long-eared,
Steve Roe (12:32):
so as the estate's changed and the new habitats
have come through, have you gotany ideas of which of the new
habitat seem to be best for batseither foraging or and or
roosting?
Unknown (12:43):
Yeah, I mean, the one I mean, what's amazing is the mill
pond and hammer pond. Both ofthose are fantastic sites. We've
there's a roost just over theMill Pond across from where we
standing, I think there's 70 oddDaubenton's that was in a tree
and watching them swoop overover the pond is quite quite a
(13:05):
sight. It's in addition to thesoprano poops, it's it can be it
sounds like mayhem on the backdetectors. So that's that's,
that's really nice of the theriparian habitats are definitely
better. It's hard to know whatit was like before.
Ryan Greaves (13:22):
Yeah, so I guess the sort of large water bodies
and the woodland around that areprobably the well established
habitats, but now you've got thekind of scrubland and all the
kinds of nectar sources. And sothe lands not got any pesticides
sprayed on it anymore. Thehedges are no longer sort of
flailed. And they're sort ofswelling out. And the planes are
(13:44):
being reinstated. There's a lotmore water on the estate. And so
hopefully, everything's just abit more well connected.
Unknown (13:50):
Yeah, there was definitely in comparison to the
Stephanie Murphy (13:50):
And you mentioned the surveys during
study in 2008. There wasdefinitely a lot more bats
there. So what sort of methodsare you using now to survey bats
caught on the floodplain thanthere were in Yeah, in the
original study. And it's quitedifficult to catch back to the
on this day?
floodplain because it's quiteopen habitat. But we were
Unknown (14:11):
Well, this was a specific project where we
definitely hearing a lot moreback passes. So So allow it I
guess, it was mostly soprano,pipistrelles, but I guess
allowing those bats who disperseallows for other bats to move in
and make use of, of the otherhabitat that's available within
these days.
(14:39):
measured the baseline and thenwe repeated exactly the methods
that that Frank did so we hadlike a like for like comparison
last year, so that those thesurveys methods were transacts
leaving out automated staticdetectors, and doing trapping
and radio tracking, and thendoing risk counts of of the. So
(15:05):
the bats that we really attract.
For those who aren't familiarwith radio tracking, it's we
catch bat in either Mist nets orharp traps, we attach a
transmitter to the bat, and thatenables us in the daytime to
find the frequency of thattransmitter and locate it roost.
And if we're lucky enough, it'llbe in a nice, visible woodpecker
hole from the ground level, andwe can count them out. If we're
(15:28):
unlucky, it will be from groundlevel in somewhere in the canopy
that we can't see from groundground level. And we just have
to make a best estimate. We filmthem on infrared cameras and
thermal imaging coming out ofthe wrist so we can get accurate
risk counts, because obviously,it's quite difficult at night to
see everything coming out of thetrees. And so you can look back
(15:51):
at other recordings the next dayand see accurately check and how
many how many bats you had. Andit's quite good as well for
getting calls of cryptic specieslike the Myotis calls for
Bechstein's and and Daubenton's.
And as he helps collect thedatabase of library calls, as
(16:14):
soon as it's fed into that workas well, which has been been
quite important. So yeah,they're generally the methods
that we've used, obviously, withCOVID. Last year, the methods we
use requite restrictive, so wewere unable to capture a handle
that so for the first into 2018,we had, and 2017 2018, we had a
(16:38):
project licence, which was ascientific conservation licence,
which had a purpose to measurethe baseline, you know, compared
to a year on year, at the momentdue to the COVID precautions
from the IUCN guidelines. Sotherefore, we've been using non
invasive methods. Ryan has beenmainly leading on the bat walks
(17:00):
and bat talks and just using batdetectors and and obviously,
contributing to the MB NP, I'llpass it over to Ryan to let you
know how many
Ryan Greaves (17:10):
Yeah, so I monitor I think, five or six different
properties on the estate andtheir back colonies. And how
numbers are changing there,which is sort of a good year on
year comparison, are also quitelucky that as net has grown in
sort of popularity and interest,we get a lot more volunteers
wanting to get involved insurveys so and other different
(17:32):
types of surveys, so birdsurveys or, or general surveys,
but they've been gettinginvolved in sort of audio moths
leaving out static detectors andrecording. And we've also got a
new regenerative agricultureproject. So a lot of the fields
is owned by the owned by theestate, but aren't part of the
rewilding project, they're nowgoing to be farmed in different
(17:53):
ways, sort of monitor how theycan sort of improve soil
quality, or just monitor how theland will improve. So sort of
some of the fields will bepasture, some of them will be
growing, some of them will beputting chickens on and sort of
rotating throughout the year.
And so we've just started doingthe baseline for those cars,
bats are going to be a key partof of how those, that project is
(18:13):
benefiting wildlife.
Steve Roe (18:18):
So for like the transect surveys you've been
doing how does that happen yearafter year? Obviously, as the
landscape changes, presumably,it's very hard to suddenly dive
through a load of scrub, how doyou manage that sort of
challenge.
Ryan Greaves (18:28):
Most of the estate has footpath, that sort of
general public footpath thatneeds to be maintained. So you
can currently get around theedges. And they're all most of
them were farmed fields. So theyall have hedges, and they all
have ditches that you can kindof make your way around or find
gaps in the hedges to kind ofsqueeze around. But it does get
(18:49):
a little bit more rambley everyyear and a lot more tripping
over. But you get
Unknown (18:54):
Yeah, I did have a rather large pig with his head
in my harp trap. One eveningwhen we were catching that, and
I didn't know who was going towin the pig, the pig or the bat
at that point. I just had topolitely wait for the pig to
(19:14):
lose interest in the harp trapand then and let them go on
their merry way. But they'rejust mostly curious. I think
they're very, very
Ryan Greaves (19:22):
curious. I haven't got very good eyesight but
something new and smelly willdefinitely Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Roe (19:28):
So outside of COVID times when you are doing the
harp trap and mist netting andhow often you on sites. How many
nights of the year do you reckonyou're here?
Unknown (19:35):
Probably about three.
Yeah, about three less it's aspecific unless it's for a
specific project.
Yeah, and we run normally threeor four. We combined with bats
with moths because our headecologist here at the estate is
called Penny Green and she andher husband are kind of chairs
(19:57):
of the local moth group sothey're big on moths, whereas we
bring the kind of bat side ofit. And it's a nice kind of
quirky, very niche, but a verypopular Safari. So yeah, we get
people out. And we've tried tocoincide a bit of either
trapping or some kind of generalsurveying with those safaris to
show people how the, the batsand other things are being
(20:19):
monitored.
Stephanie Murphy (20:19):
So last people see bats in the hand, the food
that they eat, and here batswith the bat detector, so it
gives them the whole experiencereally, which is quite nice.
Steve Roe (20:29):
You've asked the last question, because I was gonna
say, bat walks sell out prettyquickly. What do you reckon is
that draws people in but Isuppose you've nailed thaton the
head really! How did you bothget into that? What is it about
that that made you stand out onthe trails with me?
Unknown (20:46):
Well, I grew up in the west of Ireland, and my nan had
a an outbuilding. She was a pigfarm, which had lesser
horseshoes. So I used to befascinated by the mud. I could
hear the because because what Imy my hearing was good when I
was young. I could hear thefunny. They sounded like the
(21:10):
Clangers almost Yeah. And Icould hear the kind of very
pitch noisy so my gut needs tofascinate me eyes. And so when I
went to university, Istraightaway pestered David Hill
and Frank Greenaway to let mework at Ebanoe with them. Join
(21:33):
us us expat group before I wentto university, I think. And
yeah, just just just pester themto let me come out with them on
bad surveys as often and asfrequently as possible, say, as
until I became a usefulirritant. And they Yeah, I just
(21:57):
I enjoy being out at night. Ienjoy being out in the
countryside at night. I knowpeople find that a bit odd. But
I enjoy being out in the woodsat night I find it is quite
common. I was always feel good.
After coming home after a goodnight out doing bat surveys. Not
cold wet night, but a goodsummer's night. You just it's
(22:18):
just it's a very satisfyingsleep you get after it as long
as you don't have to get up toemails the next day. But yeah,
in when I started off, the paywas a lot. It was a lot easier.
Only didn't have the day jobwhen you were a student, it was
definitely a lot easier to do.
But yeah, the passion is stillthere.
(22:38):
Right? I didn't quite grow up aswild as stiff. I was in the
middle of Brighton. I remember.
I think most people in the backworld have heard of Jenny Clark,
who's like, who run the Sussex,bat hospital for about 30 years.
And I remember her coming to myinfant school when I was about
six or seven and showing us batsthat really stuck with me. And
(23:00):
then sort of wildlife was what Iwas interested in. I went to
university studied Zoology atSouthampton, and my dissertation
project was about bats and sortof comparing that feeding
activity on sites. So I wentback to Brighton and found the
best bat sites around Brightonand even sort of right in the
middle of town in Brighton youget Sarah teen sort of circling
(23:22):
around in the parks, which isreally, really quite exciting.
So yeah, so finished Universityjoined the bat group. And just
been more and more involved andmore and more fascinated over
the years.
Steve Roe (23:36):
In terms of visitor impact on that. I mean,
obviously it's a revolvingstate, how many visitors do you
have each year?
Ryan Greaves (23:45):
I'm not sure the exact number on I know there was
35,000 just sort of walkingvisitors last year who weren't
staying on the campsite orvisiting for a safari. So it
must have been sort of 75,000 orsomething like it's a lot a lot
of people and I came here in2015. And it was still sort of
(24:06):
in its infancy in terms of thetourism side of the business and
sort of spreading the word aboutrewilding, but yes, it's really
exciting and rewarding place towork. But yeah, there's a lot of
a lot of people and we try andkeep people on the footpath. So
there's areas where the wildlifecan retreat to if it if they
want some peace and quiet butyeah, it's it's really nice.
(24:29):
It's not only people inconservation, but it's really
crossed over to a wider audiencewith some of the kind of big
reintroduction projects thathave happened with the storks
and that kind of things. It'sit's crossing over, but a lot of
people,
Steve Roe (24:42):
a lot of people and once you recognise about the
project that's inspired thepublic or grab their attention.
You know, what hasn't made Kneppso popular?
Ryan Greaves (24:51):
I think rewilding is quite an exciting idea and
does you know the talk about thelarge predators like wolves and
the Lynx and you know, As andall that kind of stuff does
spark conversation. Or we don'thave enough land to have wolves
and Lynx. Unfortunately, we didthe we did the math and it was
about half a lynx. But yeah, Ithink it's nice to have a
(25:16):
positive conservation storiesand, and you have species like
turtle dove and Nightingale thatdeclined by like 98% in the last
50 years and on the estate eachyear the numbers are going up
and things like cookies and thebats that we've talked about and
purple Emperor butterflies, allthese charismatic, declining
species are now returning andrecovering a place like this. So
(25:40):
yeah, I think people are alwaysor need positive conservation
stories because it can be a bitdoom and gloom.
Steve Roe (25:47):
So in her book, Wilding Isabella mentions,
that's a number of times and shementioned that she used to go
down and watch Frank Greenawaydo the trapping. Does she still
come out? Does she still havethat interest?
Stephanie Murphy (25:59):
I'm sure she certainly does have this
interest. But I'd imagine she'squite a busy lady. As the as the
site has significantly developedas a, you know, rewilding site.
It's a tough business now withthe safaris and everything. But
as Ryan mentioned, the site nowhas its own estate ecologist who
(26:21):
fulfils that role, I guess. AndPenny does come out on the bat
surveys. Quite a lot. And yeah,I'm sure Isabella would like to
come up, but it's often packedfull of people.
Ryan Greaves (26:39):
I think considering how much they have
on they are still very hands onwith every aspect of the estate.
But they are now sort of theiradvocates through rewilding. And
there's a lot more peopleinterested in rewilding from
both the business and the sortof ideological point of view. So
their time is spare time is veryprecious. Short. Yeah, exactly.
(27:03):
So yeah, that they're alwaysasking about what's going on and
keeping in touch witheverything. But they're here
there and everywhere trying tohelp people other other people
start rewilding projects.
Steve Roe (27:15):
So what do you reckon the future looks like for the
conservation of bats and Knepp?
Is there a conservation strategyin mind? And what would success
even look like?
Unknown (27:24):
I think that the big idea now with with Knepp is that
we, we kind of know that whatwe've done here is is benefiting
wildlife is benefitingbiodiversity, but it's about
connecting up a wider area. Sowe've now got sort of a farm
cluster group with neighbouringfarmers, I think it's about 25
different farms, who maybe theymight try a little bit of
(27:49):
rewilding, or just trying toconnect up. So the plan is to
try and make sort of a wildcorridor from Knepp, which goes
down to the sea clumping. Andthen also goes up to the Ashdown
forest so we're hoping sort of aconnected highway of
biodiversity and maybe a fewmore little pop up nips here,
(28:09):
there and everywhere to justYeah, because bats are one of
those species that will becomequite isolated. If there's one
pocket of good habitat, theyneed a wider range of habitats.
So the idea is that connect upand give them a big network of
the suitable habitat but yeah,we're hoping that new species
will colonise with the greaterhorseshoe thing is quite
(28:31):
exciting. In West Sussex we'vegot now breeding greater
horseshoes in Sussex. So it'snot too far from the
it's I worked it out before. Soit's very excited. Actually, we
found a confirmed breeding roostof greater horseshoes. Probably,
(28:52):
it's about 15 miles as the batflies through here so well
within within their range. Andthe type of habitat for foraging
and feeding here is absolutelyperfect. So we've identified the
Sussex backrow have identified astable form a stable block at an
(29:14):
undisclosed currently location.
And it confirmed that we alwaysuse the odd bat here, and
obviously, they've got thecooking and singleton and
drovers, which are the SACs forbats, so for hibernation, and
then there was always the oddone or two there, but they're
the tunnels. Yeah, they're thetunnels. And so but we There was
never a confirmed breeding race,but there's also Oh, there must
(29:37):
be one somewhere there must beone somewhere. It was identified
in 2018 by Scotty and he's partof the Sussex back group. And
then they confirmed breedingthey put infrared cameras in and
confirm that. It's a very smallfounder colony. So the nearest
to put this into context, thenearest breeding colony is 100.
kilometres to the east endorses.
(30:02):
So it's quite a big jump andrange. So it's so we've worked
in partnership with the VincentWildlife Trust, to try and raise
money, we've raised enough moneywith the Sussex bat group to
take the building off themarket. So we've raised the
deposit, which is very exciting.
And and we're now kind of tryingto crowd fund and and have
(30:24):
various things for fundraisingevents to get the rest of the
building. But the idea is, it'snot just single species
conservation. The this is an,you know, a really important
species that was pretty much onthe brink of decline. And, you
know, as part of the work, thevintage wildlife trusts are not
(30:45):
just with bats, they work withother species as well. This will
allow through the networks ofhabitats and through Habitat
improvements, the species tomove east, they were in the home
counties, he used to be inLondon, you know, so 100 years
ago, they were they were inLondon. So, you know, they've
read this is, this could be avery, very good news story. And
just looking at some of thestructures on the net estate
(31:07):
that me and Ryan were spotted onthe way in some of the like
little ice houses and you know,kind of underground kind of
pumping stations and things.
These are exactly the type ofhabitat. So if we, you know, we
can get this founder colony kindof well established, its stone's
(31:29):
throw for this for the speciesto turn up here. And that would
be a very good conservationsuccess story.
Steve Roe (31:37):
Do you know if there are any long term plans with a
view to safeguard batconservation at Knepp?
Ryan Greaves (31:42):
so the estate's always looking at conservation
and all aspects we had, thatconservation trusts and bug
life's agents of the future backfrom the brink project here last
year, looking at some of ouryounger oak trees, thinking
about which ones are going to bethose kind of dominant oaks of
the future. Because if anyonecomes to visit, you'll notice
(32:05):
that there are some incredibleoak trees all over the estate,
including the one with Stanley.
And so yeah, those, they'relooking at ways that they can
make sure that these these bigmature trees are really healthy
and really viable for thefuture. In terms of any building
work that happens on the state,or any kind of development
projects, everything is sort ofconservation. And sustainability
(32:29):
is always put at the forefrontof that. So some of the
buildings that have had to havework done have sort of put
things in like opening upwhether boarding or putting in
back bricks and anything,everything they can do for bats.
And we've seen that that'salready worked on some of the
properties on the estate. So
Stephanie Murphy (32:49):
it certainly worked on the one with
enthusiast fan because that hadbeen recently refurbished. And
we miss who's never beenrecorded on the estate before
and, and it turned up in Yeah.
And one of the recentlyrefurbished houses, which was a
nice find.
Ryan Greaves (33:04):
Yeah, so that's all conservation. And that's a
really key part of that
Steve Roe (33:10):
Nice. Ryan and Steph, thank you very much.
Ryan & Steph (33:12):
You're welcome, Steve.
Steve Roe (33:17):
Thanks again to both Ryan and Steph. And you can
follow them on social media.
Their pages are in the shownotes. If you want to find out
more about net but there'splenty more info in our show
notes. And to Penny Green theirecologist hosts the Knepp
rewilding podcast, so you canget more audio from the site
there. Bats are magical butmisunderstood mammals. Here at
the Bat Conservation Trust, wehave a vision of a world rich in
(33:38):
wildlife, where bats and peoplethrive together. We know that
conservation action to protectand conserve bats is having a
positive impact on batpopulations in the UK, we would
not be able to continue our workto protect bats and their
habitats without yourcontribution. So if you can
please donate, we need yoursupport now more than ever, to
donate, please head to the linkat the bottom of the shownotes.
(34:01):
Thank you. And that brings us tothe end of series three of
BatChat. I really hope you'veenjoyed listening to our 12
guests this series and the BatConservation stories being told,
it really helps us as a show ifyou leave us a review about that
chat, either in a podcast app oron social media instructions of
how to leave a review or in theshow notes. And you can tag us
(34:21):
on social media using thehashtag BatChat. With BatChat,
we're reaching out to lovers ofbats all over the world. So if
you know someone who's neverlistened to a podcast before,
we'd love it, if you could showthem how to listen and how to
find BatChat. Recording forseries four is already underway
and will be coming later in theyear. We're looking for
participants to share backstories from across the UK with
(34:43):
the podcast. So if you'reworking on a great back project
or have a story about the batsin your area to share, please
drop us an email to the addressin the show notes. We hope you
all have a fantastic summergetting out there and enjoy
seeing bats in the night sky.
BatChat is an original podcastfrom the Bat Conservation Trust.
The series producer and editorwas me, Steve Roe. And I need to
(35:07):
give a huge thanks to all myguests this series because
without them this show wouldn'thappen. And to the
communications team of BCT, JoeNunez-Mino and Andrea Correia da
Costa for their fabulous workand support in promoting goes on
social media and linking to theepisodes on the BCT website. And
of course, without you listeningto us, there wouldn't be any
point in producing the show. Soa huge thanks to you guys, our
(35:30):
listeners for your ongoingsupport of the show. I'm going
to leave you with the sound ofbats hunting over the Knepp
rewilding Estate.
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