February 1, 2023 • 36 mins
S4E41 Tony Hutson has been shouting about bats since the 1960's and has changed the bat conservation landscape in that time. He was a founding member of the bat groups of Britain, the precursor to the Bat Conservation Trust. His survey work on the lonely greater mouse-eared bat inspired a play and he's been on expedition to a remote cave with astronaut Neil Armstrong. Steve sits down with Tony in this episode to find out more about Tony's work.
- Read our news story about the discovery of the second greater mouse-eared bat
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve Roe (00:10):
Hello, welcome to BatChat from the Bat
Conservation Trust, the leadingcharity in the United Kingdom
solely devoted to theconservation of bats and the
landscapes on which they rely.
This podcast is for anyone wholoves bats. We're bringing
stories straight to yourheadphones from the world of bat
conservation, and from thepeople out there doing work that
furthers our understanding ofthese magical creatures. I'm
(00:31):
Steve Roe; professionally, I'man ecologist and in my spare
time, I'm a trustee of the BatConservation Trust. You can join
the conversation online usingthe hashtag #BatChat. This week,
we're talking to one of thefounders of bat conservation,
Tony Hutson. As you'll hear inthis episode, which was recorded
last summer, we discussed theUK's one and only greater
(00:52):
mouse-eared bat, which residesin Sussex during the winter
months. As you might have heardon the news or seen on social
media in the last few days, anexciting discovery was made by
the bat group this winter. Andwe've got a quick interview from
one of the team involved in thatdiscovery at the end of this
episode, so stay tuned. Butfirst joined the summer heatwave
back in July, I found myself ina little village just north of
(01:14):
Brighton, walking down thegravel driveway of a house set
back from the road I found theside door wide open and Tony sat
at his kitchen table. After anatter over a coffee we
relocated to the summerhouse inthe garden. And my first
question to him was how he gotinto bats and how bat
conservation all started inthose early days.
Tony Hutson (01:38):
Yeah, I guess I got involved as a kid really was
interested infirst shown my first bets at
about age eight or something.
But then I was particularlyimpressed with
visiting some old mines in Kentand seeing bats hibernating and
(01:58):
just thinking, well, that'samazing that they're just doing
nothingfor what seems to like months on
end, because at that time wewere in and out these places
well, 10 times through thewinter. And yeah, taking bats
home to have a look at them.
What's feeding them and takingthem back home with us. This was
(02:20):
in around 1960.
Yeah, so we weren't doing muchfavours at all really. But yes,
it got us interested in. Shortlyafter that, I got to ask for a
job in the Natural HistoryMuseum. And asked
them if they had any vacanciesin birds or mammals, which is
(02:42):
really what I was asking for.
Butthey said they could give me a
job in entomology. So I tookthat and won the round to
working on ectoparasites. Okay,yeah, that's particularly Yeah.
Got me off for quite a fewlittle expeditions around the
(03:04):
world.
So quite quite a bit ofexperience of bats in that way.
Steve Roe (03:13):
So elbowing it around bat parasites then. And were you
at the Natural History Museumlong? I know you've just
finished a book for them. So areyou still involved with them?
Tony Hutson (03:23):
Not really so much involved with them now. I mean,
I was there for 22 years. I leftin 1984. So long time ago.
Steve Roe (03:31):
Yeah. And then, in terms of so I have no real real
preconception of what that workwas like back then, you know,
there were no bat groups. Thebat conservation just wasn't a
thing. The wildlife andcountryside acts hadn't been
created, you know, what was thatwork? Like back then? Were there
bat detectors?
know?
Tony Hutson (03:49):
Well, yeah, I guess. Back detectors were
introduced in the first onesappeared in around the mid 60s
the first portable things likelate 60s.
pretty quickly, they'd bedeveloped to the point where we
could identify any bat flyingpast but still haven't quite I
(04:13):
don't think!There was mist nets were fairly
recent introduction by them. Soit was relatively few people
using this nets. Andmost of the techniques were just
looking at bats inside roosts orinside hibernation, so I was I
guess, very little field work assuch.
Steve Roe (04:34):
And did you have a obviously you were involved in
that process of getting batgroups started in
the precursor to the BatConservation Trust, which was
The Bat Group's of Britain wasit called? Was that did that
come about? Because you'drecognise that bats had declined
or was it purely out of anatural history interests, sort
(04:56):
of thing?
Tony Hutson (04:56):
I think it was.
but only two species wereincluded in the wild creatures
and wild plants actas it used to be called.
(05:19):
But increasing evidence wasaccumulating. And so bats
essentially got all gotprotected in 1981.
By that time, there were quite afew odd bat groups scattered
around the country. But thenthere was a big initiative to
(05:40):
try and develop more of them.
Yeah, people like me and Henrywere running around the country
trying to set up bat groupsthrough local trusts or other
organisations.
And that was going surprisinglywell, really.
Steve Roe (05:59):
And just how much work and effort was to involved
in changing public attitudes andgetting bats protected in those
early years.
Tony Hutson (06:08):
I mean, it was a lot of that. And in fact that
was one of the main drives allthough it was surprising even
then to find how many people whoare out there who actually quite
liked bats really that it wasn'tso difficult to give people a
bit of information about batsthey didn't understand to make
(06:32):
them appreciate that they didn'treally need to destroy them or
their roosts.
Steve Roe (06:39):
So after you were involved in getting that
legislation starting to change,and BCT was in its early days,
what happened after that? Howdid momentum keep going?
Tony Hutson (06:50):
I suppose that that was before BCT, really. So. It
was the Fauna and FloraPreservation Society, which felt
there was a need to initiate aof NGO to sort of helped with
bat conservation and helpimplement the legislation.
(07:10):
Really. Yeah. And so JohnBurton, who was the Executive
Secretary, approached me andasked me if I felt like taking
on that sort of role. Butmeanwhile, we had organised a
meeting to try and just gaugethe interest around the country,
organised a meeting at LondonZoo, which had 250 seats in its
(07:35):
auditorium to get people to comealong hear, what had been going
on with bats, and what might goon in the future. And that
meeting was booked out.
Overnight, almost. And so we didthe meeting on the Saturday, did
it again on Sunday, for anotherlot of people. That was pretty
(07:55):
remarkable, and made everybodyconvinced that there was good
justification to get a projectgoing. And so it deveoped from
there. We had a small projectbased with FFPS. To that was
working with government bodiesand other NGOs and organising
(08:20):
this so called Bat Groups ofBritain, which was a committee
that linked all the national batgroups together. And then
funding got a bit tricky. Afterabout six years they way it
does. And so there was a secret... FFPS was thinking it would
(08:47):
have to abandon the project. Sothere was a secret little
meeting held in the basement ofthe Natural History Museum. That
said no, we're going to set upseparate organisation. So that's
what happened that year, the BatConservation Trust was
(09:10):
registered.Hadt its first AGM in1991, I think, rest is
history, I guess.
Steve Roe (09:22):
And how many members of staff did it have back then
in those early days?
Tony Hutson (09:26):
Oh, well, FFPS days it was three I guess. So there
was me and then there wassomebody brought in really as a
London project officer withfunding from GLC but a lot of
what he did this is SimonMickleborough. Yeah, a lot of
what he did was relevantnationally. So those that name
(09:51):
we had a national bet year in1986 and got somebody in Jan
Tate came in to to do that. Andwe sort of brought in other
volunteers and so on to helpout. And that went pretty well.
Joan stayed with us after that.
So it was three there. And thenwhen it came setting up the BCT
(10:16):
office in 1991. It was a bitdodgey I mean, we had that three
months money for two members ofstaff. Right at the beginning,
we got this anonymous donationof 25,000 quid, which made us
feel a little more comfortable.
(10:40):
And then managed to startgetting other grants in. It's, I
suppose it was only about six orseven people in the office in by
2000, I left. Whereas now...Idunno...
Steve Roe (11:02):
30/40ish I think. So we still don't know who that
anonymous donor was? Do we?
Tony Hutson (11:09):
No I mean, usually, you know, bodies know where
their anonymous donations comefrom but no we never found the
source of that. Have suspicionsbut no evidence at all!
Steve Roe (11:26):
And what do you think it is now that BCT does best?
Tony Hutson (11:31):
What's it do best?
Well, I guess the monitoringprogramme very pleased about
that's going seems to be goingreally well. Yeah. Nice to see
things like bats in churchesproject. I'll do worry about the
sort of restriction in the scopeof roost visits and things like
(11:53):
that. I think that's probablyone of my major concerns is the
limitations on what qualifiesfor a free visit, that I feel as
it worked originally was one ofthe most important factors in
the conservation of bats, notjust for those individuals who
(12:17):
were visited, but in that theywould then pass on information
to other people who wouldotherwise never have come into
contact with natureconservation.
Steve Roe (12:31):
Well, am I right in saying you were one of the
founding members of the Sussexbat group? Have I got that
right. Yeah. Yes. So tell us abit about the Sussex bat group
I'm not from this area at all, Idon't know anything about it. So
give us a flavour of what havebeen the milestones in its
history and what sort of work itdoes now compared to when you
first set it up.
Tony Hutson (12:49):
Oh I dunno about milestones in its history. It
currently has about 220/250members, I think, although not
of course, that many of them areactive in the field. There's a
lot of monitoring of roostsgoing on particularly
(13:11):
hibernation sites and otherkinds of occasional surveys and
so on. A lot of taking of batsinto care for rehabilitation,
that kind of thing, which isproducing quite interesting
results. I mean, Sussexgenerally as a, well, all the UK
(13:32):
species have been recorded inSussex
Steve Roe (13:35):
Show off!
Tony Hutson (13:36):
I think we can claim to be the only county that
can claim that.
There are also for other specieshave been recorded here.
Steve Roe (13:48):
You mean in terms of vagrants?
Tony Hutson (13:49):
Vagrants yeah.
Steve Roe (13:52):
And you mentioned hibernation surveys. So I guess
now's a good time to to elbow inthe UK's only greater
mouse-eared bat do you want togive us the story about how you
discovered it and a bit aboutits roost site and what we now
know about that individual.
Tony Hutson (14:09):
I came in a bit late in the original story. So
there was a population found inSussex in 1969. And that was
probably between 30 and 40animals. Something happened in
1974 Because most of the femalesdidn't come back to the... we
(14:33):
only knew where they werehibernating, they didn't come
back and then the remnantpopulation just drifted away.
There was two left in 1981 oneleft in '85 and none by 1990.
Steve Roe (14:58):
And 1991 was when it was officially declared extinct,
wasn't it? Which I think was thefirst mammal to go extinct in
Britain since the wolf back inthe 18th century. That's the
figure that's in all the books.
Tony Hutson (15:08):
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And then I mean, we never
And that's a lone individualmale bat. Yeah. And what sort of
quite knew whether they might belooking around somewhere. But
these sites where we'd beenfinding them, were good sites,
roost type has it without givingthe location away?
really. We were monitoring quitea lot of sites and not finding
(15:29):
anything at all. So I'm prettysure it had disappeared. But
then one was found in Bogner in2001, and it was a old female
that had never bred. And it hadone wing much longer than the
other one. So! Strange animaland then the next year 2002, we
(15:51):
found one hibernating again. Andthat was a young male of that
year, and so assumed that wasgoing to be a pioneer of
recolonisation. Because specieshad been declining heavily
through the 60s, 70s, innorthwest Europe, and was
showing a bit of a comeback bythem. But nothing ever happened
(16:16):
this bat just came back on itsown. Ringed it in that first
year, and it came back everyyear, until 2020. And then it
was missing. So we assumed ithad gone. And then we weren't
able to check the followingyear, for reasons of COVID. But
(16:37):
then when they went back thiswinter, there it was again. So
it hasn't quite gone yet.
Oh, it's an old disused tunnel,railway tunnel.
Steve Roe (16:56):
And was it was it was that a site that you were
monitoring regularly before itturned up? Or did you just
happen to go in.
Tony Hutson (17:02):
the same site as the previous one of the same
sites that previously they'dbeen in two neighbouring sites,
and this was in one of those.
And that also led to feelingsthat perhaps it was a relic from
the old, that there was a littlepopulation that carried on out
there somewhere, because Ireally don't think so. No, no, I
(17:25):
think it was just a one off.
Steve Roe (17:28):
So is that thought because you've done lots of
survey work? And you've got noother evidence there?
Tony Hutson (17:37):
Yeah. Yes, there's quite a lot of sites that are
regularly monitored in Sussex,neighbouring parts of Hampshire
as well. And nothing. There's anumber of those that are good
sites for mouse-eared bats. So Ireally think that it's on its
own.
Steve Roe (17:55):
Which is a shame.
What are your thoughts? Is therea way that we could get that
species back into Britain?
Tony Hutson (18:01):
Oh I don't know we had all sorts of discussions
early on about introducinganimals. And then there were all
the issues of trying toquarantine and all the other
issues that made that difficultreally. And originally, I
(18:22):
thought, when this one turned upthat we'd radio tag it and try
and find out where it was in thesummer, so that we could search
around to see if there wereothers there. And I even have a
guy, local guy here with a planewho's, happy to fly up and down
Sussex, looking for if we couldtag it. But then there are sort
(18:46):
of difficulties turned up anddidn't do it then. And I just
think it's much too late now.
Really, it's not going to tellus very much I don't think. So
I've my feeling is that probablythe species will come back
sooner or later on its own.
Steve Roe (19:05):
And you think the habitats here are okay for right
now.
Tony Hutson (19:09):
Yeah, nothing.
Yeah. I think there's plenty ofreasonable habitat. Certainly
plenty of hibernation sites andavailable nice country houses
for it to roost in and that sortof thing.
Steve Roe (19:23):
And your, your activity in that tunnel over
those years inspired a play inLondon, which I went to see
actually did you go and see ityourself?
Tony Hutson (19:32):
Yeah, I thought that was really weird. That.
Interesting play. And, yeah, wewent and we were able to have
off so I've got the script forthe play. And we went and had a
drink with the writer anddirector and that sort of thing.
And that was quite interesting.
They were looking for otherplaces to put it on. Did think
(19:53):
about. It was in London. It wasin some again, sort of like
disused railway tunnels thevaults under Waterloo station.
Steve Roe (20:08):
Which worked fine, I thought it worked quite well it
was gonna work very well interms of staging.
Tony Hutson (20:12):
So I did inquire as to whether they could put it on
in the Brighton sewers, whichare sort of the old Victorian
sewers are open to the publicnow and again, didn't get very
far with that
Steve Roe (20:25):
Shame! So, this afternoon, I'm off to meet some
of the members of the Sussexback group another new discovery
the first greater horseshoeroost, maternity roost found in
Sussex for about 100 years. Canyou tell us about some of the
work you've done with horseshoesin that time? And how the
discovery came about? And didyou think horseshoes were in the
(20:47):
county before that roost wasfound?
Tony Hutson (20:51):
We knew they were there were odd ones around the
county that the first one wasabout 1975 in these same railway
tunnels. And then we'd had oddrecords through the years from
then. But in the last 10 or 15years, there seem to be
(21:12):
increasing frequency and perhapsslightly increasing numbers. And
as part of a little job for theNational Trust that went through
all records and compiled areport. And it was it had been
bugging me up 'till then anyway.
But I just felt there wassomething going on here we had
records from about six or sevensites, all within close/one
(21:38):
area, including, we'd beenringing them in these tunnels
and including ring bats in anumber of these other sites
being reported. So I just feltmore and more convinced that
there was some little breedingcolony tucked away somewhere in
(21:58):
Sussex and then had no idea howwe were going to find it. And
just fortuitously turned up in2019. And you know, in that time
we've had a steadying increasein the number of records in
winter, which did furthersuggest that's something going
(22:20):
on. But yeah, generally thosespecies had been pretty widely
recorded around the southeast,up until the mid 50s. So don't
think they've been a breedingroost known for about 100 years,
but it had been recorded. Butactually couldn't find anything
pre-1975 for Sussex. Except onerecord supposedly of a greater
(22:46):
horseshoe found on the sale of aboat off Brighton about the turn
of the turn of the last century.
So yeah, interesting species.
And you know ours is 100kilometres from the nearest one
(23:07):
in Dorset. So we see it as apotential to we started look
shopping around fororganisations to take on the
responsibility that we felt thebat group couldn't do. And
Vincent Wildlife Trust said,yeah, we'll do it. Very good.
Yeah.
Steve Roe (23:31):
And when the broadcaster Chris Packham came
on the show, back in 2019. Now,he said, he said the bat science
didn't develop that quicklycompared to other mammal species
from when he first saw his firstbats back in the 60s, for a
whole number of reasons. Tony,why do you think it's lagged
(23:52):
behind other wildlife? I'm sortof thinking about the amount of
stuff that we know for our saybird populations in comparison.
Tony Hutson (24:02):
I guess it's just difficulties study really. Yeah.
There was precious littleinformation, even the evidence
that was put for introducing theWildlife and Countryside Act
that was pretty thin. I gotinvolved in doing stuff towards
(24:23):
the habitats agreement. Yeah.
That wasn't very robust. But,but I mean, now, I think, yeah.
And, in fact, with what with theHabitats Directive and the
Eurobats, the sort of agreementon conservation bats in Europe.
That was what prompted thegovernment to stick up over
(24:47):
money to develop the NationalBat Monitoring Programme, which
is very pleased to say is stillgoing well, really. And I mean
all, all the other gizmo that'sout there has really made
enormous advances in thatresearch and conservation.
Steve Roe (25:09):
What's, what's your view on the state of Bat
Conservation at the moment? Whatdo you think is done really
well? And in which areas do youthink it could be improved?
Tony Hutson (25:17):
Oh, dear!
Steve Roe (25:20):
Be as controversial as you like!
Tony Hutson (25:23):
No! I don't know. I mean, I think it's. Well I left
the BCT 20 years ago now. Butthings have changed a lot over
that period, I was there or withthe initially with the Fauna and
Flora Preservation Societyproject, where our emphasis then
was on things like timbertreatment, chemicals, and other
(25:47):
kinds of pesticides and otherissues that really aren't a
major moment these days and somuch more concerned about
general habitat, damage anddevelopment, so on.
Steve Roe (26:04):
Do you have a favourite or most notable memory
of working with bats in allthose years?
Tony Hutson (26:11):
Certainly, little incidents abroad, in the tropics
of getting myself in a bit of amess with bats in the field, but
here. I've enjoyed working withserotine bats in particular, and
been running, some long termringing project, which is
(26:34):
producing useful data. I thinkthat I suppose the mouse-eared,
finding the mouse-eared bat'squite extraordinary. And there
were, normally there'd be six ofus on one of these monitoring
counts. On that occasion, therewas four. And one of them was
actually a visitor from Siberia,who was the only person with a
(26:56):
camera there at the time. Andwho well for him that was
perhaps the least interesting ofthe bats he was seeing that day!
Steve Roe (27:12):
You mentioned there getting stuff into into a pickle
in the tropics, where were youand what sort of thing were you
Yeah?
doing?
Tony Hutson (27:17):
Oh, I don't know, quite a lot in Africa and Indian
Yeah. I don't knowwhat his role was in it. But he
Ocean islands and central andsouth America, really? But yes,
nice, nice places, and some nicebats. And some pretty mad...
There was one expedition toEcuador, to look at a cave that
(27:41):
according to Von Daniken, whowrote a whole series of books in
the 70s, about visitors we'd hadfrom outer space, described this
cave that had been built bythermonuclear drawls 4000 years
ago, in Ecuador. Somebodythought we'd better have a look
(28:05):
at mounted a large expeditionwith a team of 16 cave
biologists, cavers and doctors.
And Neil Armstrong came along.
was a geographer, geologist andcaver. So that was quite
(28:29):
interesting.
Steve Roe (28:31):
And do you still manage to get out and do much
work these days?
Tony Hutson (28:35):
No, not doing so much at the moment, I think,
sort of got out of the habit abit in COVID times. Having a few
little sort of health issuesnow. So not getting around much
at the moment. But still tryingto get out now and again.
Steve Roe (28:56):
And what do you think we can do to attract the next
generation into getting intothat conversation?
Tony Hutson (29:03):
I don't quite know what we can do. But um, no, it's
very important. Yeah, I mean,that's the way that I got in was
through as a kid. Joined theLondon Natural History Society
became a bird ringer at the ageof 14 or something, and joined
(29:24):
the mammal society when we were14 I think. And those
organisations were quitewelcoming. I'm not sure that
most of the organisations noware geared towards that kind of
looking after and encouragingyoungsters, but I suppose we
(29:46):
also had a lot more freedom totravel around on our own or in a
little group or whatever. So Iguess yes, just getting them
out. I mean, if you get themout, they get very enthusiastic.
Steve Roe (29:59):
And what you think will be the bigger challenges
for bat conservation in thefuture apart from getting the
younger generation involved,what do you think are gonna be
the challenges of the future?
Tony Hutson (30:08):
I suppose things like climate change and standard
kinds of things; development,habitat loss must be the major
threats. And monitoring thosechanges in patterns and
(30:28):
populations is really, really akey issue. I guess.
Steve Roe (30:35):
On the way down here I was listening to the World
Wildlife Fund's podcast andtheir latest episode is all
about climate change. Sofinally, what message would you
give to everyone listening tothe show now who's involved in
bat conversation? What onemessage would come from Tony
Hutson?
Tony Hutson (30:55):
Where do you get these questions!? I don't know.
Just carry on out there and getdo what you can to help bats and
in all sorts of various waysthat people do get involved with
bats and help bats. That's good.
That means 1400 species outthere to worry about. Yeah, get
(31:16):
out there and do it!
Steve Roe (31:24):
Great stuff. Tony Hutson, thank you very much.
Tony Hutson (31:27):
Thank you!
Steve Roe (31:29):
Thank you to Tony for sitting down with me. He's full
of anecdotes. And if you're everlucky enough to meet him do have
a chat with him. So as you heardthere for the last 20 years or
so, one single greatermouse-eared bat has been
recorded, hibernating in adisused railway tunnel near the
south coast by Sussex Bat Group.
Then on the 14th of January thisyear, a second individual was
recorded during the annualsurvey. Ryan Greaves has been on
(31:50):
BatChat before, you can hear himin the Knepp rewilding estate
episode. A couple of days ago, Icaught up with Ryan over the
phone, who was one of the teamwho saw this second bat.
So thank you for coming on theshow. It's the second time
you've been on the show Ryan.
Obviously listeners heard youback on the Knepp rewildling
episode. So thanks for comingback on. We've just heard from
Tony about the history of thegreater mouse-eared bat and Tony
said he thinks the species willcome back on its own accord,
which obviously seems to havehappened in this last couple of
(32:19):
weeks! When did you guys makethe discovery? And how many
people got to see this backfirsthand?
Ryan Greaves (32:25):
So we did the first of all, sort of
hibernation checks on the 14thof January, so a few weeks ago.
And yeah, so it was a team offive of us. And there's
basically a series of tunnelsthat are connected that aren't
used for trains anymore. Sothere was one team that went to
a different site, and we went tothis particular site. And yeah,
(32:49):
we weren't expecting to see it.
They'd never that species hadnever been found in that tunnel
before. So yeah, it was, it wasa bit mind blowing, and jaw
dropping to see it. So yeah, wewere quite excited, but
obviously had to contain ourexcitement not to disturb
anything. And yeah, so it's,yeah, really exciting.
Steve Roe (33:08):
Now, I didn't realise it was in a different tunnel, I
thought it was in the sametunnel that you normally find it
and so are you sure that it'sthe that it is a second
individual greater mouse-eared,and not the original one that's
just lost its ring, say?
Ryan Greaves (33:19):
Yeah, that was our slight fear. So we had to hold
our breath and hope that theother team had found I'd found
him and they had. So it was wewere recording at the same time.
And it was clearly hibernating.
So yeah, certainly a second bat.
Steve Roe (33:36):
That's great stuff.
And is the feeling that it's aresident of Sussex or that it's
come across from the channel,presumably, the chances of it
ending up in the same railwaytunnel, if it's a migrant, are
pretty slim, but like you say,it's a slightly different
tunnel. So
Ryan Greaves (33:49):
Yeah. I would think it's probably a resident.
But yeah, we're not we're not100% sure, at the minute as they
are a big bat, and they cantravel quite long distances to
find hibernation sites. Sopotentially, it has come across
the channel, but either way,yeah, fingers crossed. There's
more, more to come.
Steve Roe (34:10):
And that's great. And in terms of doing more surveys,
if you've got more plannedcoming up later in February?
Ryan Greaves (34:15):
Yes. So we've got a check. Again, sort of midway
through February and hoping thatthe bats will be there again.
And yeah, we might be able tofind out whether it's a male or
female, because that would bequite useful to know. But yeah,
we're gonna, we're gonna keepour fingers crossed that it
stays nice and cold and is stillthere.
Steve Roe (34:36):
So how exciting was it when you first saw it?
Ryan Greaves (34:38):
Very exciting. It wasn't me who spotted it. Jess,
who's our membership secretary,she, she spotted it and she's
said 'Oh, that's a big bat!' Itcertainly, is a big bat! Yeah.
We were sort of looking at someDaubenton's on the wall and she
just sort shined her torch upand and as you say, that sort of
jaw dropping moment. Wow, thatis out there and then yeah, just
(35:01):
waiting to see that it wasn'tthe usual one who had just, you
know, scraped off his ring orsomething. So yeah, it's
definitely a second bat. Soyeah, very exciting. Very, very
exciting.
Steve Roe (35:10):
That's brilliant, how excited were the other team when
you told them?
Ryan Greaves (35:14):
Yes, all very excited and all really keen to
tell Tony, that was whateveryone was saying can't wait
to ring Tony's so yeah, I thinkhe's excited too.
Steve Roe (35:22):
Great stuff Ryan t Thanks for that
update. To read more head to theshownotes, where you'll find a
link to our news article on thisexciting discovery. Now, just a
reminder, we want you to leavethe show a voicemail. Tell us
about your local bats a specialbat sighting you had last year
or a site you think everyoneshould visit to go and watch
bats! Maybe you have a questionor you want advice on where to
go and see a particular batspecies. Whatever your
(35:44):
experience with bats we reallywant to hear from you so do get
in touch. The voicemail link isin the show notes. And don't
worry, you can hear your messageback and re-record it if you
don't like it before sending itto us. Messages can be up to 90
seconds long and we can't waitto hear from you. Join us next
time when we're on the banks ofthe River Thames. See you then.
Hello, welcome to BatChat from the Bat
Conservation Trust, the leadingcharity in the United Kingdom
solely devoted to theconservation of bats and the
landscapes on which they rely.
This podcast is for anyone wholoves bats. We're bringing
stories straight to yourheadphones from the world of bat
conservation, and from thepeople out there doing work that
furthers our understanding ofthese magical creatures. I'm
(00:31):
Steve Roe; professionally, I'man ecologist and in my spare
time, I'm a trustee of the BatConservation Trust. You can join
the conversation online usingthe hashtag #BatChat. This week,
we're talking to one of thefounders of bat conservation,
Tony Hutson. As you'll hear inthis episode, which was recorded
last summer, we discussed theUK's one and only greater
(00:52):
mouse-eared bat, which residesin Sussex during the winter
months. As you might have heardon the news or seen on social
media in the last few days, anexciting discovery was made by
the bat group this winter. Andwe've got a quick interview from
one of the team involved in thatdiscovery at the end of this
episode, so stay tuned. Butfirst joined the summer heatwave
back in July, I found myself ina little village just north of
(01:14):
Brighton, walking down thegravel driveway of a house set
back from the road I found theside door wide open and Tony sat
at his kitchen table. After anatter over a coffee we
relocated to the summerhouse inthe garden. And my first
question to him was how he gotinto bats and how bat
conservation all started inthose early days.
Tony Hutson (01:38):
Yeah, I guess I got involved as a kid really was
interested infirst shown my first bets at
about age eight or something.
But then I was particularlyimpressed with
visiting some old mines in Kentand seeing bats hibernating and
(01:58):
just thinking, well, that'samazing that they're just doing
nothingfor what seems to like months on
end, because at that time wewere in and out these places
well, 10 times through thewinter. And yeah, taking bats
home to have a look at them.
What's feeding them and takingthem back home with us. This was
(02:20):
in around 1960.
Yeah, so we weren't doing muchfavours at all really. But yes,
it got us interested in. Shortlyafter that, I got to ask for a
job in the Natural HistoryMuseum. And asked
them if they had any vacanciesin birds or mammals, which is
(02:42):
really what I was asking for.
Butthey said they could give me a
job in entomology. So I tookthat and won the round to
working on ectoparasites. Okay,yeah, that's particularly Yeah.
Got me off for quite a fewlittle expeditions around the
(03:04):
world.
So quite quite a bit ofexperience of bats in that way.
Steve Roe (03:13):
So elbowing it around bat parasites then. And were you
at the Natural History Museumlong? I know you've just
finished a book for them. So areyou still involved with them?
Tony Hutson (03:23):
Not really so much involved with them now. I mean,
I was there for 22 years. I leftin 1984. So long time ago.
Steve Roe (03:31):
Yeah. And then, in terms of so I have no real real
preconception of what that workwas like back then, you know,
there were no bat groups. Thebat conservation just wasn't a
thing. The wildlife andcountryside acts hadn't been
created, you know, what was thatwork? Like back then? Were there
bat detectors?
know?
Tony Hutson (03:49):
Well, yeah, I guess. Back detectors were
introduced in the first onesappeared in around the mid 60s
the first portable things likelate 60s.
pretty quickly, they'd bedeveloped to the point where we
could identify any bat flyingpast but still haven't quite I
(04:13):
don't think!There was mist nets were fairly
recent introduction by them. Soit was relatively few people
using this nets. Andmost of the techniques were just
looking at bats inside roosts orinside hibernation, so I was I
guess, very little field work assuch.
Steve Roe (04:34):
And did you have a obviously you were involved in
that process of getting batgroups started in
the precursor to the BatConservation Trust, which was
The Bat Group's of Britain wasit called? Was that did that
come about? Because you'drecognise that bats had declined
or was it purely out of anatural history interests, sort
(04:56):
of thing?
Tony Hutson (04:56):
I think it was.
but only two species wereincluded in the wild creatures
and wild plants actas it used to be called.
(05:19):
But increasing evidence wasaccumulating. And so bats
essentially got all gotprotected in 1981.
By that time, there were quite afew odd bat groups scattered
around the country. But thenthere was a big initiative to
(05:40):
try and develop more of them.
Yeah, people like me and Henrywere running around the country
trying to set up bat groupsthrough local trusts or other
organisations.
And that was going surprisinglywell, really.
Steve Roe (05:59):
And just how much work and effort was to involved
in changing public attitudes andgetting bats protected in those
early years.
Tony Hutson (06:08):
I mean, it was a lot of that. And in fact that
was one of the main drives allthough it was surprising even
then to find how many people whoare out there who actually quite
liked bats really that it wasn'tso difficult to give people a
bit of information about batsthey didn't understand to make
(06:32):
them appreciate that they didn'treally need to destroy them or
their roosts.
Steve Roe (06:39):
So after you were involved in getting that
legislation starting to change,and BCT was in its early days,
what happened after that? Howdid momentum keep going?
Tony Hutson (06:50):
I suppose that that was before BCT, really. So. It
was the Fauna and FloraPreservation Society, which felt
there was a need to initiate aof NGO to sort of helped with
bat conservation and helpimplement the legislation.
(07:10):
Really. Yeah. And so JohnBurton, who was the Executive
Secretary, approached me andasked me if I felt like taking
on that sort of role. Butmeanwhile, we had organised a
meeting to try and just gaugethe interest around the country,
organised a meeting at LondonZoo, which had 250 seats in its
(07:35):
auditorium to get people to comealong hear, what had been going
on with bats, and what might goon in the future. And that
meeting was booked out.
Overnight, almost. And so we didthe meeting on the Saturday, did
it again on Sunday, for anotherlot of people. That was pretty
(07:55):
remarkable, and made everybodyconvinced that there was good
justification to get a projectgoing. And so it deveoped from
there. We had a small projectbased with FFPS. To that was
working with government bodiesand other NGOs and organising
(08:20):
this so called Bat Groups ofBritain, which was a committee
that linked all the national batgroups together. And then
funding got a bit tricky. Afterabout six years they way it
does. And so there was a secret... FFPS was thinking it would
(08:47):
have to abandon the project. Sothere was a secret little
meeting held in the basement ofthe Natural History Museum. That
said no, we're going to set upseparate organisation. So that's
what happened that year, the BatConservation Trust was
(09:10):
registered.Hadt its first AGM in1991, I think, rest is
history, I guess.
Steve Roe (09:22):
And how many members of staff did it have back then
in those early days?
Tony Hutson (09:26):
Oh, well, FFPS days it was three I guess. So there
was me and then there wassomebody brought in really as a
London project officer withfunding from GLC but a lot of
what he did this is SimonMickleborough. Yeah, a lot of
what he did was relevantnationally. So those that name
(09:51):
we had a national bet year in1986 and got somebody in Jan
Tate came in to to do that. Andwe sort of brought in other
volunteers and so on to helpout. And that went pretty well.
Joan stayed with us after that.
So it was three there. And thenwhen it came setting up the BCT
(10:16):
office in 1991. It was a bitdodgey I mean, we had that three
months money for two members ofstaff. Right at the beginning,
we got this anonymous donationof 25,000 quid, which made us
feel a little more comfortable.
(10:40):
And then managed to startgetting other grants in. It's, I
suppose it was only about six orseven people in the office in by
2000, I left. Whereas now...Idunno...
Steve Roe (11:02):
30/40ish I think. So we still don't know who that
anonymous donor was? Do we?
Tony Hutson (11:09):
No I mean, usually, you know, bodies know where
their anonymous donations comefrom but no we never found the
source of that. Have suspicionsbut no evidence at all!
Steve Roe (11:26):
And what do you think it is now that BCT does best?
Tony Hutson (11:31):
What's it do best?
Well, I guess the monitoringprogramme very pleased about
that's going seems to be goingreally well. Yeah. Nice to see
things like bats in churchesproject. I'll do worry about the
sort of restriction in the scopeof roost visits and things like
(11:53):
that. I think that's probablyone of my major concerns is the
limitations on what qualifiesfor a free visit, that I feel as
it worked originally was one ofthe most important factors in
the conservation of bats, notjust for those individuals who
(12:17):
were visited, but in that theywould then pass on information
to other people who wouldotherwise never have come into
contact with natureconservation.
Steve Roe (12:31):
Well, am I right in saying you were one of the
founding members of the Sussexbat group? Have I got that
right. Yeah. Yes. So tell us abit about the Sussex bat group
I'm not from this area at all, Idon't know anything about it. So
give us a flavour of what havebeen the milestones in its
history and what sort of work itdoes now compared to when you
first set it up.
Tony Hutson (12:49):
Oh I dunno about milestones in its history. It
currently has about 220/250members, I think, although not
of course, that many of them areactive in the field. There's a
lot of monitoring of roostsgoing on particularly
(13:11):
hibernation sites and otherkinds of occasional surveys and
so on. A lot of taking of batsinto care for rehabilitation,
that kind of thing, which isproducing quite interesting
results. I mean, Sussexgenerally as a, well, all the UK
(13:32):
species have been recorded inSussex
Steve Roe (13:35):
Show off!
Tony Hutson (13:36):
I think we can claim to be the only county that
can claim that.
There are also for other specieshave been recorded here.
Steve Roe (13:48):
You mean in terms of vagrants?
Tony Hutson (13:49):
Vagrants yeah.
Steve Roe (13:52):
And you mentioned hibernation surveys. So I guess
now's a good time to to elbow inthe UK's only greater
mouse-eared bat do you want togive us the story about how you
discovered it and a bit aboutits roost site and what we now
know about that individual.
Tony Hutson (14:09):
I came in a bit late in the original story. So
there was a population found inSussex in 1969. And that was
probably between 30 and 40animals. Something happened in
1974 Because most of the femalesdidn't come back to the... we
(14:33):
only knew where they werehibernating, they didn't come
back and then the remnantpopulation just drifted away.
There was two left in 1981 oneleft in '85 and none by 1990.
Steve Roe (14:58):
And 1991 was when it was officially declared extinct,
wasn't it? Which I think was thefirst mammal to go extinct in
Britain since the wolf back inthe 18th century. That's the
figure that's in all the books.
Tony Hutson (15:08):
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And then I mean, we never
And that's a lone individualmale bat. Yeah. And what sort of
quite knew whether they might belooking around somewhere. But
these sites where we'd beenfinding them, were good sites,
roost type has it without givingthe location away?
really. We were monitoring quitea lot of sites and not finding
(15:29):
anything at all. So I'm prettysure it had disappeared. But
then one was found in Bogner in2001, and it was a old female
that had never bred. And it hadone wing much longer than the
other one. So! Strange animaland then the next year 2002, we
(15:51):
found one hibernating again. Andthat was a young male of that
year, and so assumed that wasgoing to be a pioneer of
recolonisation. Because specieshad been declining heavily
through the 60s, 70s, innorthwest Europe, and was
showing a bit of a comeback bythem. But nothing ever happened
(16:16):
this bat just came back on itsown. Ringed it in that first
year, and it came back everyyear, until 2020. And then it
was missing. So we assumed ithad gone. And then we weren't
able to check the followingyear, for reasons of COVID. But
(16:37):
then when they went back thiswinter, there it was again. So
it hasn't quite gone yet.
Oh, it's an old disused tunnel,railway tunnel.
Steve Roe (16:56):
And was it was it was that a site that you were
monitoring regularly before itturned up? Or did you just
happen to go in.
Tony Hutson (17:02):
the same site as the previous one of the same
sites that previously they'dbeen in two neighbouring sites,
and this was in one of those.
And that also led to feelingsthat perhaps it was a relic from
the old, that there was a littlepopulation that carried on out
there somewhere, because Ireally don't think so. No, no, I
(17:25):
think it was just a one off.
Steve Roe (17:28):
So is that thought because you've done lots of
survey work? And you've got noother evidence there?
Tony Hutson (17:37):
Yeah. Yes, there's quite a lot of sites that are
regularly monitored in Sussex,neighbouring parts of Hampshire
as well. And nothing. There's anumber of those that are good
sites for mouse-eared bats. So Ireally think that it's on its
own.
Steve Roe (17:55):
Which is a shame.
What are your thoughts? Is therea way that we could get that
species back into Britain?
Tony Hutson (18:01):
Oh I don't know we had all sorts of discussions
early on about introducinganimals. And then there were all
the issues of trying toquarantine and all the other
issues that made that difficultreally. And originally, I
(18:22):
thought, when this one turned upthat we'd radio tag it and try
and find out where it was in thesummer, so that we could search
around to see if there wereothers there. And I even have a
guy, local guy here with a planewho's, happy to fly up and down
Sussex, looking for if we couldtag it. But then there are sort
(18:46):
of difficulties turned up anddidn't do it then. And I just
think it's much too late now.
Really, it's not going to tellus very much I don't think. So
I've my feeling is that probablythe species will come back
sooner or later on its own.
Steve Roe (19:05):
And you think the habitats here are okay for right
now.
Tony Hutson (19:09):
Yeah, nothing.
Yeah. I think there's plenty ofreasonable habitat. Certainly
plenty of hibernation sites andavailable nice country houses
for it to roost in and that sortof thing.
Steve Roe (19:23):
And your, your activity in that tunnel over
those years inspired a play inLondon, which I went to see
actually did you go and see ityourself?
Tony Hutson (19:32):
Yeah, I thought that was really weird. That.
Interesting play. And, yeah, wewent and we were able to have
off so I've got the script forthe play. And we went and had a
drink with the writer anddirector and that sort of thing.
And that was quite interesting.
They were looking for otherplaces to put it on. Did think
(19:53):
about. It was in London. It wasin some again, sort of like
disused railway tunnels thevaults under Waterloo station.
Steve Roe (20:08):
Which worked fine, I thought it worked quite well it
was gonna work very well interms of staging.
Tony Hutson (20:12):
So I did inquire as to whether they could put it on
in the Brighton sewers, whichare sort of the old Victorian
sewers are open to the publicnow and again, didn't get very
far with that
Steve Roe (20:25):
Shame! So, this afternoon, I'm off to meet some
of the members of the Sussexback group another new discovery
the first greater horseshoeroost, maternity roost found in
Sussex for about 100 years. Canyou tell us about some of the
work you've done with horseshoesin that time? And how the
discovery came about? And didyou think horseshoes were in the
(20:47):
county before that roost wasfound?
Tony Hutson (20:51):
We knew they were there were odd ones around the
county that the first one wasabout 1975 in these same railway
tunnels. And then we'd had oddrecords through the years from
then. But in the last 10 or 15years, there seem to be
(21:12):
increasing frequency and perhapsslightly increasing numbers. And
as part of a little job for theNational Trust that went through
all records and compiled areport. And it was it had been
bugging me up 'till then anyway.
But I just felt there wassomething going on here we had
records from about six or sevensites, all within close/one
(21:38):
area, including, we'd beenringing them in these tunnels
and including ring bats in anumber of these other sites
being reported. So I just feltmore and more convinced that
there was some little breedingcolony tucked away somewhere in
(21:58):
Sussex and then had no idea howwe were going to find it. And
just fortuitously turned up in2019. And you know, in that time
we've had a steadying increasein the number of records in
winter, which did furthersuggest that's something going
(22:20):
on. But yeah, generally thosespecies had been pretty widely
recorded around the southeast,up until the mid 50s. So don't
think they've been a breedingroost known for about 100 years,
but it had been recorded. Butactually couldn't find anything
pre-1975 for Sussex. Except onerecord supposedly of a greater
(22:46):
horseshoe found on the sale of aboat off Brighton about the turn
of the turn of the last century.
So yeah, interesting species.
And you know ours is 100kilometres from the nearest one
(23:07):
in Dorset. So we see it as apotential to we started look
shopping around fororganisations to take on the
responsibility that we felt thebat group couldn't do. And
Vincent Wildlife Trust said,yeah, we'll do it. Very good.
Yeah.
Steve Roe (23:31):
And when the broadcaster Chris Packham came
on the show, back in 2019. Now,he said, he said the bat science
didn't develop that quicklycompared to other mammal species
from when he first saw his firstbats back in the 60s, for a
whole number of reasons. Tony,why do you think it's lagged
(23:52):
behind other wildlife? I'm sortof thinking about the amount of
stuff that we know for our saybird populations in comparison.
Tony Hutson (24:02):
I guess it's just difficulties study really. Yeah.
There was precious littleinformation, even the evidence
that was put for introducing theWildlife and Countryside Act
that was pretty thin. I gotinvolved in doing stuff towards
(24:23):
the habitats agreement. Yeah.
That wasn't very robust. But,but I mean, now, I think, yeah.
And, in fact, with what with theHabitats Directive and the
Eurobats, the sort of agreementon conservation bats in Europe.
That was what prompted thegovernment to stick up over
(24:47):
money to develop the NationalBat Monitoring Programme, which
is very pleased to say is stillgoing well, really. And I mean
all, all the other gizmo that'sout there has really made
enormous advances in thatresearch and conservation.
Steve Roe (25:09):
What's, what's your view on the state of Bat
Conservation at the moment? Whatdo you think is done really
well? And in which areas do youthink it could be improved?
Tony Hutson (25:17):
Oh, dear!
Steve Roe (25:20):
Be as controversial as you like!
Tony Hutson (25:23):
No! I don't know. I mean, I think it's. Well I left
the BCT 20 years ago now. Butthings have changed a lot over
that period, I was there or withthe initially with the Fauna and
Flora Preservation Societyproject, where our emphasis then
was on things like timbertreatment, chemicals, and other
(25:47):
kinds of pesticides and otherissues that really aren't a
major moment these days and somuch more concerned about
general habitat, damage anddevelopment, so on.
Steve Roe (26:04):
Do you have a favourite or most notable memory
of working with bats in allthose years?
Tony Hutson (26:11):
Certainly, little incidents abroad, in the tropics
of getting myself in a bit of amess with bats in the field, but
here. I've enjoyed working withserotine bats in particular, and
been running, some long termringing project, which is
(26:34):
producing useful data. I thinkthat I suppose the mouse-eared,
finding the mouse-eared bat'squite extraordinary. And there
were, normally there'd be six ofus on one of these monitoring
counts. On that occasion, therewas four. And one of them was
actually a visitor from Siberia,who was the only person with a
(26:56):
camera there at the time. Andwho well for him that was
perhaps the least interesting ofthe bats he was seeing that day!
Steve Roe (27:12):
You mentioned there getting stuff into into a pickle
in the tropics, where were youand what sort of thing were you
Yeah?
doing?
Tony Hutson (27:17):
Oh, I don't know, quite a lot in Africa and Indian
Yeah. I don't knowwhat his role was in it. But he
Ocean islands and central andsouth America, really? But yes,
nice, nice places, and some nicebats. And some pretty mad...
There was one expedition toEcuador, to look at a cave that
(27:41):
according to Von Daniken, whowrote a whole series of books in
the 70s, about visitors we'd hadfrom outer space, described this
cave that had been built bythermonuclear drawls 4000 years
ago, in Ecuador. Somebodythought we'd better have a look
(28:05):
at mounted a large expeditionwith a team of 16 cave
biologists, cavers and doctors.
And Neil Armstrong came along.
was a geographer, geologist andcaver. So that was quite
(28:29):
interesting.
Steve Roe (28:31):
And do you still manage to get out and do much
work these days?
Tony Hutson (28:35):
No, not doing so much at the moment, I think,
sort of got out of the habit abit in COVID times. Having a few
little sort of health issuesnow. So not getting around much
at the moment. But still tryingto get out now and again.
Steve Roe (28:56):
And what do you think we can do to attract the next
generation into getting intothat conversation?
Tony Hutson (29:03):
I don't quite know what we can do. But um, no, it's
very important. Yeah, I mean,that's the way that I got in was
through as a kid. Joined theLondon Natural History Society
became a bird ringer at the ageof 14 or something, and joined
(29:24):
the mammal society when we were14 I think. And those
organisations were quitewelcoming. I'm not sure that
most of the organisations noware geared towards that kind of
looking after and encouragingyoungsters, but I suppose we
(29:46):
also had a lot more freedom totravel around on our own or in a
little group or whatever. So Iguess yes, just getting them
out. I mean, if you get themout, they get very enthusiastic.
Steve Roe (29:59):
And what you think will be the bigger challenges
for bat conservation in thefuture apart from getting the
younger generation involved,what do you think are gonna be
the challenges of the future?
Tony Hutson (30:08):
I suppose things like climate change and standard
kinds of things; development,habitat loss must be the major
threats. And monitoring thosechanges in patterns and
(30:28):
populations is really, really akey issue. I guess.
Steve Roe (30:35):
On the way down here I was listening to the World
Wildlife Fund's podcast andtheir latest episode is all
about climate change. Sofinally, what message would you
give to everyone listening tothe show now who's involved in
bat conversation? What onemessage would come from Tony
Hutson?
Tony Hutson (30:55):
Where do you get these questions!? I don't know.
Just carry on out there and getdo what you can to help bats and
in all sorts of various waysthat people do get involved with
bats and help bats. That's good.
That means 1400 species outthere to worry about. Yeah, get
(31:16):
out there and do it!
Steve Roe (31:24):
Great stuff. Tony Hutson, thank you very much.
Tony Hutson (31:27):
Thank you!
Steve Roe (31:29):
Thank you to Tony for sitting down with me. He's full
of anecdotes. And if you're everlucky enough to meet him do have
a chat with him. So as you heardthere for the last 20 years or
so, one single greatermouse-eared bat has been
recorded, hibernating in adisused railway tunnel near the
south coast by Sussex Bat Group.
Then on the 14th of January thisyear, a second individual was
recorded during the annualsurvey. Ryan Greaves has been on
(31:50):
BatChat before, you can hear himin the Knepp rewilding estate
episode. A couple of days ago, Icaught up with Ryan over the
phone, who was one of the teamwho saw this second bat.
So thank you for coming on theshow. It's the second time
you've been on the show Ryan.
Obviously listeners heard youback on the Knepp rewildling
episode. So thanks for comingback on. We've just heard from
Tony about the history of thegreater mouse-eared bat and Tony
said he thinks the species willcome back on its own accord,
which obviously seems to havehappened in this last couple of
(32:19):
weeks! When did you guys makethe discovery? And how many
people got to see this backfirsthand?
Ryan Greaves (32:25):
So we did the first of all, sort of
hibernation checks on the 14thof January, so a few weeks ago.
And yeah, so it was a team offive of us. And there's
basically a series of tunnelsthat are connected that aren't
used for trains anymore. Sothere was one team that went to
a different site, and we went tothis particular site. And yeah,
(32:49):
we weren't expecting to see it.
They'd never that species hadnever been found in that tunnel
before. So yeah, it was, it wasa bit mind blowing, and jaw
dropping to see it. So yeah, wewere quite excited, but
obviously had to contain ourexcitement not to disturb
anything. And yeah, so it's,yeah, really exciting.
Steve Roe (33:08):
Now, I didn't realise it was in a different tunnel, I
thought it was in the sametunnel that you normally find it
and so are you sure that it'sthe that it is a second
individual greater mouse-eared,and not the original one that's
just lost its ring, say?
Ryan Greaves (33:19):
Yeah, that was our slight fear. So we had to hold
our breath and hope that theother team had found I'd found
him and they had. So it was wewere recording at the same time.
And it was clearly hibernating.
So yeah, certainly a second bat.
Steve Roe (33:36):
That's great stuff.
And is the feeling that it's aresident of Sussex or that it's
come across from the channel,presumably, the chances of it
ending up in the same railwaytunnel, if it's a migrant, are
pretty slim, but like you say,it's a slightly different
tunnel. So
Ryan Greaves (33:49):
Yeah. I would think it's probably a resident.
But yeah, we're not we're not100% sure, at the minute as they
are a big bat, and they cantravel quite long distances to
find hibernation sites. Sopotentially, it has come across
the channel, but either way,yeah, fingers crossed. There's
more, more to come.
Steve Roe (34:10):
And that's great. And in terms of doing more surveys,
if you've got more plannedcoming up later in February?
Ryan Greaves (34:15):
Yes. So we've got a check. Again, sort of midway
through February and hoping thatthe bats will be there again.
And yeah, we might be able tofind out whether it's a male or
female, because that would bequite useful to know. But yeah,
we're gonna, we're gonna keepour fingers crossed that it
stays nice and cold and is stillthere.
Steve Roe (34:36):
So how exciting was it when you first saw it?
Ryan Greaves (34:38):
Very exciting. It wasn't me who spotted it. Jess,
who's our membership secretary,she, she spotted it and she's
said 'Oh, that's a big bat!' Itcertainly, is a big bat! Yeah.
We were sort of looking at someDaubenton's on the wall and she
just sort shined her torch upand and as you say, that sort of
jaw dropping moment. Wow, thatis out there and then yeah, just
(35:01):
waiting to see that it wasn'tthe usual one who had just, you
know, scraped off his ring orsomething. So yeah, it's
definitely a second bat. Soyeah, very exciting. Very, very
exciting.
Steve Roe (35:10):
That's brilliant, how excited were the other team when
you told them?
Ryan Greaves (35:14):
Yes, all very excited and all really keen to
tell Tony, that was whateveryone was saying can't wait
to ring Tony's so yeah, I thinkhe's excited too.
Steve Roe (35:22):
Great stuff Ryan t Thanks for that
update. To read more head to theshownotes, where you'll find a
link to our news article on thisexciting discovery. Now, just a
reminder, we want you to leavethe show a voicemail. Tell us
about your local bats a specialbat sighting you had last year
or a site you think everyoneshould visit to go and watch
bats! Maybe you have a questionor you want advice on where to
go and see a particular batspecies. Whatever your
(35:44):
experience with bats we reallywant to hear from you so do get
in touch. The voicemail link isin the show notes. And don't
worry, you can hear your messageback and re-record it if you
don't like it before sending itto us. Messages can be up to 90
seconds long and we can't waitto hear from you. Join us next
time when we're on the banks ofthe River Thames. See you then.
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