October 11, 2024 • 7 mins
What transforms a hidden gem of a podcast into a smash hit? In this episode, we delve into the critical challenges indie podcasters face: findability and fundability. These two intertwined hurdles often determine a show's success or obscurity.
We also highlight the financial barriers, such as costly award entry fees and the steep price of outsourcing, which can amount to $12,000 annually. Solutions like curated discovery on platforms like Goodpods and potential streaming models for steady income are explored.
And we emphasize the need for innovative approaches to ensure that quality content can rise to the top and reach its intended audience.
Takeaways:
- Many indie podcasters face the dual challenges of findability and fundability, crucial for success.
- Findability isn't just about being on platforms like Apple or Spotify, but about discoverability by the right listeners.
- Fundability provides resources for better production and marketing, helping podcasts become more discoverable.
- Outsourcing basics can cost indie podcasters up to $12,000 a year, highlighting financial challenges.
- Platforms like Goodpods are attempting to level the playing field for independent creators through curated discovery.
- The podcasting industry could benefit from streaming payment models similar to those used in the music industry.
- Listeners play a crucial role in supporting indie podcasts by seeking them out and sharing them with others.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Apple
- Spotify
- Goodpods
- Webby
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:21):
Ever stumbled on a podcast?Yeah, one that's, like, perfectly
up youralley. You get that feeling like
this. This is my new thing. But then
you look at the download numbers,
andit's crickets. Makes you wonder,
right?What is it that takes a podcast from
hidden gem to smash hit? Mm.
(00:41):
Yeah.
And I know what you'rethinking. Quality. But hold on. Today's
deep dive, we're not talking sound
effects or fancy intros. We're going
deeper. Way deeper.
Okay.
Two massive hurdles for indiepodcasters. Way bigger than just
making good stuff. Findability and
fundability.
I like that.
Right? So I found thisarticle, and they called it this
whole thing, a dual blade sword situation.
Catchy, right?
(01:02):
Yeah. Yeah.
Basically, for indie creators,it's like you can't have one without
the other. And to help break it all
down, we've got an expert in the
house.
Happy to be here.
So what's the deal with thiswhole findability and fundability
dilemma?
Well, you're right. That dualblade thing, it really is the perfect
way to put it. It's such a tightrope
walkfor indies.
Totally.
This article, it starts with astory, super relatable, about Danny.
He's like the every podcaster, you
know, pouring everything into his
show. But he's stuck. Wants more
listeners, obviously. Who doesn't?
Buthow do you break through when you
don't have the means?
(01:33):
It's the classic catch 22.Need money to make money. But how
do you get the money without the,
you know, the visibility.
Exactly. And that's wherefindability and this fundability,
theybecome so, so intertwined. Because
findability, it's not just being
onApple podcasts or Spotify. It's about
being discoverable by the right listeners.
(01:54):
That makes sense.
Like your podcast. It could bethis tiny needle in a giant haystack.
Orit's a beacon drawing people in.
The exact right people.
Okay, so fundability, then,that's what gives you the resources
forbuilding that beacon, right?
Yeah, exactly. It's having themoney to invest better equipment,
maybesome marketing, or even getting help
with stuff like editing so you can
focus on the content itself. It all
adds up to making your.
(02:18):
Podcast well, that beacon wewere talking about.
And how much does beaconconstruction cost these days? I'm
guessing it's not cheap.
Not at all. The articleactually throws out a crazy stat.
Outsourcing, even just the basics,
could run an indie podcaster, something
like $12,000 a year.
Whoa. $12,000? That's likesome people's rent money, right?
Really puts it all in perspective,
right? Itdoes that number. If anything, it
shows how much we as creators undervalue
our own time. Because even if you
diy everything, that's still time,
energy, time you could spend doing
things to actually earn, like connecting
with sponsors or building up a community
around your show.
(03:01):
You know, it's funny youmentioned that, about time being
valuable. Cause this whole cost thing,
it got me thinking about podcast
awards.
Okay. Yeah.
Like on the one hand, theyseem amazing, boosts your visibility.
Youget that little seal of approval.
Right, right.
But then I'm like, wait aminute. How much does it even cost
to enter some of these things?
Yeah.
And wouldn't you know it, thearticle gets into this too.
Yeah, it's wild. It really isa case of need money to even try
and get more money. Like take the
Webby awards.
(03:28):
Exactly. Those are what, likea couple hundred bucks just to consider
for someone starting out, that's
liketheir whole budget.
Oh, for sure.
And it's not just theme. Oh,man, I remember when I was just starting
my podcast, there was this award.
Perfect, absolutely perfect for my
show. The theme, the categories,
everything.
Oh, wow.
But the entry fee. Yeah, itwas my entire grocery budget for
the month. Like, literally, do I
eat this month or chase this dream?
(03:55):
Oof.
Yeah, this article, it doespoint out some good stuff. Like some
bright spots where people are actually
trying to make things better for
indies.
Yeah, like what?
Well, like good pods. Youfamiliar with that?
I've heard of it, yeah. It'san app, right?
It's an app. And they seemreally into supporting independent
creators.
They are. And honestly, one ofthe best things they do is focus
ondiscovery. But like, curated discovery.
Because the algorithms on a lot of
these platforms, they favor the big
names, the ones with the money to
throw around good pods. They level
the playing field a bit.
(04:28):
Oh, interesting. How so?
They've got charts just forindie shows. Small thing, but it
makes a huge difference. It means
your show's actually getting in front
of the right people. Like listeners
whowant to find new stuff.
See, that's so smart. Thatalgorithm thing, I hadn't even considered
that. It's like this whole other
layer of, I don't know, this hidden
impact on what we even end up listening
to, what gets seen, you know?
(04:49):
Totally. It really shows howimportant it is for these platforms,
theapps, to be intentional about how
they're designed, what the algorithms
do.If they really want a diverse podcasting
world, that is because it's not just.
About throwing money at theproblem. Right. There needs to be
a way for good content to actually
riseto the top no matter what. It's like.
We almost need a whole new mindset
forhow we find and support podcasts,
right?
(05:12):
Yeah, totally. And thearticle, it actually goes there towards
the end. It talks about solutions,
likereally big picture stuff. One that
stood out to me was this idea of
streaming payments, like, how music
does it.
Oh, okay. So instead ofrelying on ads so much, or hoping
people chip in on Patreon, maybe
podcasts could be on those services
orlike their own thing where you pay
monthly and you get all the content.
(05:35):
Yeah, that model, it works. Wesee it with music, with other stuff.
For podcasters, it could mean steady
income, which, especially when you're
starting out, not having to chase
those big ad deals. That's huge,
right?
Makes sense.
Yeah.
But then does that solve theother problem? Like, would we still
have that algorithm bias where the
big shows win out? Or would it be
different?
(05:58):
Million dollar question.Because even if the money part changes,
you still gotta get heard of, right?
So, yeah, it'd have to be designed
differently. Maybe playlists that
focus on indies better search functions
so people can actually find what
they want, even if it's not already
super popular.
That's the key, right? Itcan't just be about the creators
either.It's about the listeners having all
this amazing audio out there, but
they gotta be able to find it. Imagine
all the good stuff we're missing
out on.
(06:24):
Exactly.
I don't know. I'm kind ofhopeful, seeing these challenges.
Maybeit'll push us to come up with some
really cool, creative solutions that
help everyone.
I like that cautious optimismbecause, yeah, the system's got its
problems, but there are people trying
to fix it. And listeners, they're
apart of this too. Knowing about this
stuff, seeking out indie shows, even
just telling a friend it makes a
difference.
100%. So next time you'rescrolling through podcasts, give
anindie show a shot. You might just
find your new favorite, and you'll
besupporting someone's passion, helping
them grow their audience. Thanks
forjoining us for this deep dive. Until
next time.
Ever stumbled on a podcast?Yeah, one that's, like, perfectly
up youralley. You get that feeling like
this. This is my new thing. But then
you look at the download numbers,
andit's crickets. Makes you wonder,
right?What is it that takes a podcast from
hidden gem to smash hit? Mm.
(00:41):
Yeah.
And I know what you'rethinking. Quality. But hold on. Today's
deep dive, we're not talking sound
effects or fancy intros. We're going
deeper. Way deeper.
Okay.
Two massive hurdles for indiepodcasters. Way bigger than just
making good stuff. Findability and
fundability.
I like that.
Right? So I found thisarticle, and they called it this
whole thing, a dual blade sword situation.
Catchy, right?
(01:02):
Yeah. Yeah.
Basically, for indie creators,it's like you can't have one without
the other. And to help break it all
down, we've got an expert in the
house.
Happy to be here.
So what's the deal with thiswhole findability and fundability
dilemma?
Well, you're right. That dualblade thing, it really is the perfect
way to put it. It's such a tightrope
walkfor indies.
Totally.
This article, it starts with astory, super relatable, about Danny.
He's like the every podcaster, you
know, pouring everything into his
show. But he's stuck. Wants more
listeners, obviously. Who doesn't?
Buthow do you break through when you
don't have the means?
(01:33):
It's the classic catch 22.Need money to make money. But how
do you get the money without the,
you know, the visibility.
Exactly. And that's wherefindability and this fundability,
theybecome so, so intertwined. Because
findability, it's not just being
onApple podcasts or Spotify. It's about
being discoverable by the right listeners.
(01:54):
That makes sense.
Like your podcast. It could bethis tiny needle in a giant haystack.
Orit's a beacon drawing people in.
The exact right people.
Okay, so fundability, then,that's what gives you the resources
forbuilding that beacon, right?
Yeah, exactly. It's having themoney to invest better equipment,
maybesome marketing, or even getting help
with stuff like editing so you can
focus on the content itself. It all
adds up to making your.
(02:18):
Podcast well, that beacon wewere talking about.
And how much does beaconconstruction cost these days? I'm
guessing it's not cheap.
Not at all. The articleactually throws out a crazy stat.
Outsourcing, even just the basics,
could run an indie podcaster, something
like $12,000 a year.
Whoa. $12,000? That's likesome people's rent money, right?
Really puts it all in perspective,
right? Itdoes that number. If anything, it
shows how much we as creators undervalue
our own time. Because even if you
diy everything, that's still time,
energy, time you could spend doing
things to actually earn, like connecting
with sponsors or building up a community
around your show.
(03:01):
You know, it's funny youmentioned that, about time being
valuable. Cause this whole cost thing,
it got me thinking about podcast
awards.
Okay. Yeah.
Like on the one hand, theyseem amazing, boosts your visibility.
Youget that little seal of approval.
Right, right.
But then I'm like, wait aminute. How much does it even cost
to enter some of these things?
Yeah.
And wouldn't you know it, thearticle gets into this too.
Yeah, it's wild. It really isa case of need money to even try
and get more money. Like take the
Webby awards.
(03:28):
Exactly. Those are what, likea couple hundred bucks just to consider
for someone starting out, that's
liketheir whole budget.
Oh, for sure.
And it's not just theme. Oh,man, I remember when I was just starting
my podcast, there was this award.
Perfect, absolutely perfect for my
show. The theme, the categories,
everything.
Oh, wow.
But the entry fee. Yeah, itwas my entire grocery budget for
the month. Like, literally, do I
eat this month or chase this dream?
(03:55):
Oof.
Yeah, this article, it doespoint out some good stuff. Like some
bright spots where people are actually
trying to make things better for
indies.
Yeah, like what?
Well, like good pods. Youfamiliar with that?
I've heard of it, yeah. It'san app, right?
It's an app. And they seemreally into supporting independent
creators.
They are. And honestly, one ofthe best things they do is focus
ondiscovery. But like, curated discovery.
Because the algorithms on a lot of
these platforms, they favor the big
names, the ones with the money to
throw around good pods. They level
the playing field a bit.
(04:28):
Oh, interesting. How so?
They've got charts just forindie shows. Small thing, but it
makes a huge difference. It means
your show's actually getting in front
of the right people. Like listeners
whowant to find new stuff.
See, that's so smart. Thatalgorithm thing, I hadn't even considered
that. It's like this whole other
layer of, I don't know, this hidden
impact on what we even end up listening
to, what gets seen, you know?
(04:49):
Totally. It really shows howimportant it is for these platforms,
theapps, to be intentional about how
they're designed, what the algorithms
do.If they really want a diverse podcasting
world, that is because it's not just.
About throwing money at theproblem. Right. There needs to be
a way for good content to actually
riseto the top no matter what. It's like.
We almost need a whole new mindset
forhow we find and support podcasts,
right?
(05:12):
Yeah, totally. And thearticle, it actually goes there towards
the end. It talks about solutions,
likereally big picture stuff. One that
stood out to me was this idea of
streaming payments, like, how music
does it.
Oh, okay. So instead ofrelying on ads so much, or hoping
people chip in on Patreon, maybe
podcasts could be on those services
orlike their own thing where you pay
monthly and you get all the content.
(05:35):
Yeah, that model, it works. Wesee it with music, with other stuff.
For podcasters, it could mean steady
income, which, especially when you're
starting out, not having to chase
those big ad deals. That's huge,
right?
Makes sense.
Yeah.
But then does that solve theother problem? Like, would we still
have that algorithm bias where the
big shows win out? Or would it be
different?
(05:58):
Million dollar question.Because even if the money part changes,
you still gotta get heard of, right?
So, yeah, it'd have to be designed
differently. Maybe playlists that
focus on indies better search functions
so people can actually find what
they want, even if it's not already
super popular.
That's the key, right? Itcan't just be about the creators
either.It's about the listeners having all
this amazing audio out there, but
they gotta be able to find it. Imagine
all the good stuff we're missing
out on.
(06:24):
Exactly.
I don't know. I'm kind ofhopeful, seeing these challenges.
Maybeit'll push us to come up with some
really cool, creative solutions that
help everyone.
I like that cautious optimismbecause, yeah, the system's got its
problems, but there are people trying
to fix it. And listeners, they're
apart of this too. Knowing about this
stuff, seeking out indie shows, even
just telling a friend it makes a
difference.
100%. So next time you'rescrolling through podcasts, give
anindie show a shot. You might just
find your new favorite, and you'll
besupporting someone's passion, helping
them grow their audience. Thanks
forjoining us for this deep dive. Until
next time.
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