Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
I'm James Dumman and you're listening to Bears Beyond
(00:02):
the Gate.
You're listening to Bears Beyondthe Gate, a Bristol Bears
podcast made by fans for fans.
With three friends who love theclub, the game, and all things
bears.
Well, boys, uh, we are actuallyaway from our spiritual home.
We're slumming it.
We're slumming it.
(00:23):
We've gone budget.
Um we're back in, well, my housetonight, and we haven't got any
of our brand new equipment.
We literally sat around a littletable with three or four books,
a box, and the mobile recorderrecorder right on the top.
But um we weren't sure we weregonna do a pod, but we decided
(00:43):
we needed to do one tonight, andthen we found out that there was
some comedy thing going on atthe Bristol Beer Factory, so
we've had to go back to ourroots.
SPEAKER_03 (00:51):
Which is it's nice though, I like it.
I mean, asn't on a positivescore.
SPEAKER_05 (00:54):
Any any pants on a radiator?
SPEAKER_03 (00:56):
Well, I don't know what that is, but I'm not gonna
get too close to it.
It doesn't look like pee.
SPEAKER_02 (01:00):
Those are actually my pajama shorts.
Well, you know what it's likenow, boys, with the winter
coming in.
Yeah, yeah.
When you do the washing, you'vegot to sit down.
We're a we're a family of four.
Needs must, mate.
We get it, we get it.
And also we haven't had to situp for hours.
We haven't had to sit up forhours.
And uh we haven't had to do thesort of small talk with Lewis to
just make sure he remembers togive us the beers and stuff like
(01:21):
that.
SPEAKER_03 (01:21):
Well, that's the downside.
We've got no we've had to buyour own beers, haven't we?
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Which is uh And you'll notice that the room's
changed a little bit.
We've now got a proper work deskbehind us.
SPEAKER_05 (01:30):
Um, so I'm drinking an uh a competitor's beer.
SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
Apologies.
I think you sh well I think whenyou're away from the beer
factory.
When you're away from home openseason, yeah, um, but yeah, we
this is uh we're a little bitmore cramped because we my
daughter started a GCSE's thisyear and sh she needed a sort of
study area, so we've changed itinto it.
But you know, it feels good.
But anyway, boys, we decided todo a pod.
It's always difficult this timeof year, isn't it?
(01:54):
Because the Prem finishes, thenthere's a bit of Prem cut, then
we we have our exhibition game,um, then there's a bit of a
break, and then you know thePrem doesn't restart until well,
it's 23rd Saturday, the 28th.
No, it's later of November.
But we we did have someterrible, terrible news in the
(02:16):
week that meant we really,really felt we needed to get
together and have an emergencypod.
Well, we needed a therapysession after that news, didn't
we?
It was therapy, and of course, alot of you boys out there and
and girls and girls as well,sorry.
I don't know what came over methere.
And men and men and women andall sorts, and anybody, and
anyone who's gender neutral, andprobably a few there's probably
(02:36):
a few cats and dogs out therethat listen as well.
SPEAKER_03 (02:38):
And maybe uh is it Free Eye Atlas, maybe that is a
couple of Indians on board aswell who listen.
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
But for all of our millions of listeners, of
course, I guess if you do listento the pod regularly, you'll
know what we're talking about.
It was a rumour a few weeks ago,we hoped it wasn't true, but now
it's all come out in the thepress and even now officially
come out that well, I go as farto say that almost best friend
of the pod, um James Dunn, isgonna be leaving Bristol Bears,
(03:07):
his hometown club, at the end ofthe year.
And I think if there is anyoneout there that hasn't heard the
news or hasn't seen any of thedetail, I think I think it we
owe it to Dunny to read to readhis statement that he uh he he
wrote for the fans.
So here it goes.
It goes, Dear Bristol Bearsfans, that's us, boys, yeah, and
(03:28):
loads of other people.
Um I will I'm s I was a littlebit disappointed he didn't say
dear Bears fans and the podboys, but I'll let him off
because it's a big moment.
There's still time.
And he said, I will be leavingBristol at the end of the
season, a club that I've grownup with, from coming through the
academy to running out at AshtonGate.
Bears has shaped me as a playerand a person.
(03:50):
I'm grateful to every teammate,staff member, and coach who
believed in me, and to Pat forgiving me the opportunity to
establish myself in thePremiership.
It's a brilliant group of boyshere, and I'm grateful to call
them mates.
Thanks to Steve Lansdowne andhis family for what he has done
for our club.
Being a homegrown player atBristol has been an honour, and
(04:11):
I have never taken it forgranted.
But life is also about growth,and that means stepping into the
unknown.
For me personally, this has beenone of the hardest decisions
I've ever made.
But it's time for a new chapter.
I've changed a lot during mytime here.
Losing my dad and overcomingmany challenges has given me the
perspective to go and testmyself in a different
(04:32):
environment and experience lifein a new city, having spent my
life here in the West Country.
To the fans at Ashton Gate,you've been incredible.
You've always supported me andmy family, and it's given me
memories I will always treasure.
Bristol will always be home, andI have no doubt that the club
will continue to go fromstrength to strength to
(04:53):
strength.
We still have so much to achievethis season, and I'm determined
to leave with silverware.
Once a bear, always a bear,James Dunn.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
True.
Absolutely true.
Well boys, I'm gonna pass itover to you.
Do you want to go first, Lee, orLee?
What are you?
SPEAKER_03 (05:09):
Uh I mean, first of all, obviously, speaking for all
three of us, we're we're allabsolutely gutted that Dunny's
gone or going.
Um but I have to admire andrespect his decision.
I think that you know he'sputting himself outside the box
and outside of his comfort zone,and I think in any walk of life,
(05:32):
that's a really tough thing todo.
It takes a lot of courage, ittakes a lot of guts and
determination, and I think thatI mean there's gonna be no as as
gutted as as we are to to seehim go, there's gonna be no
bigger supporters of James Donthan the three of us, is there?
And I'm gonna love seeing him ina albeit in a quince shirt, but
(05:54):
I'm gonna love seeing him play,and I'm gonna love seeing him
smash the opposition.
So gutted, yes, but I canrespect his decision and um I
think we're fully behind him,aren't we?
Miles?
SPEAKER_05 (06:06):
Yeah, I I might reiterate, I feel like we're I
feel like we were in mourning asa group of lads, aren't we?
You know, we've learned torespect, you know, James Dunn as
a player, a friend, you know,and a contributor to our podcast
over the last year.
Uh, and he was ultimately anabsolute top, top bloke, amazing
(06:27):
player, and the growth we'veseen him come from the academy
to first team to that try atBath at the rank in the
semifinal last year, just toppedit off.
A true Bristolian, as he said,you know, it it's so tough for
him to leave a club that he'sjust grown up with, and it's so
hard to move on to the nextchapter completely unknown to
(06:48):
him.
But we wish him the we wish himwell.
We hope that he progresses, youknow, and and Quinn's no doubt
will, you know, grow him as aplayer and ultimately, you know,
might get on the internationalstage, but we're absolutely
gutted.
But he goes with goes with ourblessing, or of course.
SPEAKER_02 (07:04):
Yeah, he yeah, he needs our blessing.
Yeah, he needs absolutely.
Um I'll add to that.
I mean, I remember Lee sayingmany pods ago we were discussing
a team selection, and I think itwas just after he'd come back
from Jersey.
And I remember you specificallysaying, uh, I think James Dunn
would be good to get in theside.
And it was when we hadn'treally, we didn't know much
(07:25):
about him, he'd been an Academyboy.
And I do remember you sayingthat, and you had a you had seen
something in him, and you saidwe need you know we need to get
Dunny in the side, or James Dunnin the side, and then he's done
he's got over fifty appearancesin the the heat of battle in the
premiership, and including amassive shift at Claremont,
(07:45):
which which I think proves whata great player he is already and
what a player he can be.
And obviously, with ourconversations with Dunny, uh we
were very lucky to to get him tocome and talk to us on the pod
twice.
And one of the things he wasvery clear about is that he had
a very specific role in theteam, which was to do the filthy
(08:07):
stuff, which was to get up, hitRux, which was to stop the
opposition playing.
And he said that you know he washe Bats did the the line-out
calling, and that was somethinghe wanted to develop and learn,
but he was in charge of malldefence, and my mole defence has
been something that has beenreally, really good.
So this is a guy who is not he'snot got potential, the guy is
already there, um, and you know,he is going to and grow and
(08:31):
develop, like he said.
And we did send him a personalmessage on our WhatsApp, on our
um Instagram, because that's howwe contact him most of time, and
he generally replies.
And and we send him a littlemessage, just basically off
saying, you know, we are gutted,we understand what you're
saying, you know, we really do.
We really think it's a realshame that a brist a really good
Bristolian player is leaving theclub.
Yeah, of course.
And he said, Thank you guys,been an absolute pleasure and
(08:53):
not done yet.
Would be nice to leave on ahive.
I'm still available for the pod,even when I'm in London.
Let's grab a pint at the nexthome prem game.
It sounds good to us.
That is the measure of the guy.
I mean, yeah, he doesn't have tosay that to us.
We're just three blokes inhaving a middle-aged crisis and
running a podcast.
James Dunn is 25 years old, he'sgot he's a serious rugby player,
(09:14):
but he he he treated us likewith real respect, and we we
respect him for that as well.
Um yeah.
Well let's talk about theelephant in the room now then.
SPEAKER_03 (09:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Because we've done all the nicernow.
Yeah, agree.
Now, there's one issue which Ithink sticks in the in the mind
for me, and it was very early inwell, right at the beginning,
the genesis of Pat Lamb ring, isthat he wanted to bring in young
(09:44):
Bristolian players, right, whichwill eventually go on and play
for England.
Yeah, we're all agreed on that.
So the thing that really sticksin my crawl is the fact now
we've we've lost a Bristolianplayer, right?
We've lost a guy whose heart andsoul was blew in my oops, we all
agree.
Um, as much as we've got uhRabilio in the team, or even
(10:09):
Rubiolo, or the same thing.
I'm just pronouncing it likeGareth Chilcott would.
Sorry, Coochie.
SPEAKER_02 (10:16):
I thought I thought Chilcott was in the room then.
I've actually I've never seenyou and Chilcott in a root.
SPEAKER_03 (10:23):
And it's sorry.
But yeah, it's it it it's abugbearer of mine.
The fact is we've lost one ofour own, and and he is one of
our own.
I think it you know some somedepartures really do it quite
hard, and this one I think hitall three of us quite badly.
SPEAKER_05 (10:39):
I think right.
I think I think amazing, youknow, it's like we're not even
halfway through the season, butthis has hit us personally and
professionally, you know, out ofall the departures we see at the
end of the season.
Yeah, we know players come andgo, their contracts end, etc.
But to lose such a store in inBristol, um, you're absolutely
right.
You know, the the rhetoricthat's been given to fans, I
(11:02):
mean it's there's no lie, is it,that we we promote Bristoleans,
we want Bristolians to win caps,100 caps for England.
Um, and I know the England istight as a back row at the
moment, but you know, if hefeels that to to move on and
progress his game in anotherclub is the only way of doing
that, fair play to him, but I'mjust absolutely gutted that you
(11:24):
know, we're not potentially, wedon't know, that willing to
match the offer that Quinn'shave given him.
I mean, that we've decided toreduce our squad, to reduce the
amount we pay in the cap, uh,and lose such a brilliant
player.
SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Well, I think you make a really good point there,
Miles, and this is the problemsometimes with the kind of
rhetoric and the reality is thatit's a good strat line when
you're rebranding the club,building the club from nothing,
which is essentially whathappened after 2019.
And um but there is a reality,there is a market reality that
(12:03):
uh that money does talk a lot ofthe time.
And and you know, we know thatthat Dunny said to us that you
know there are he knows thereare certain certain sort of
points where locks are in locksare in demand and they have a
certain value.
And I and I think that it wedon't know clearly, we have no
idea what the numbers oranything are.
(12:25):
But if Saracens have offered, ohSaracens always God, he wouldn't
have gone there, I know that fora fact.
But if Quince had he wouldn'thave gone there for anything,
but Quinn's had offered himsomething, he I assume this is
the way negotiations work, um,bears, you know, he makes it
aware what the offer is.
And and whatever that is,clearly we haven't given him an
offer that will make him uh wantto deny the offer.
(12:47):
So so it is unfortunately, andand that's nothing wrong with
that, because that's that'smarket forces, that's
capitalism.
And he's got his you know, he'sobviously happy with whatever
he's been offered, he's got ayou know, he's got a life in it.
And and of course you layer onall the things he said because
he's looking for opportunity.
And one thing we could also sayis that it's possible to make it
a case for the fact that hisopportunity for representative
(13:10):
honours has been stymied alittle bit by being at Bristol,
not because he's there'sanything wrong with his game,
it's just that Bristol isn'tnecessarily a seems like a
fashionable place to get into ATsports like that.
No, and I think there's thatelement as well, and I mean
we've got to respect that aswell.
So it what I'm saying is thatthen there's clearly market
(13:31):
forces at at play, but and therealways is, but it just is a
slight disconnect to make allthese proclamations about
Bristolians, but then at the endof the day, just don't back it
up when market forces dictate.
SPEAKER_03 (13:42):
No, and and I mean my question then would be like,
how can Quinns value Dunny morethan we do at Bristol?
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
I mean, if I go back to the market forces argument,
I'd they probably say they don'thave a good enough second row.
We we have Pedro Rubiolo and wehave Joe Batley, and we also
have Joe Owen who's who's comingthrough.
SPEAKER_03 (14:01):
I mean I think Joe Owen probably is he's probably
the guy that Pat Lamb sees forthe future.
I think we we all know howtalented Joe Owen is.
Um and he can and he'sversatile, which Pat loves as
well.
He's probably slightly moreversatile.
So I do agree that's probablyhad some influence on the
decision.
SPEAKER_02 (14:21):
From an economic point of view, Joe Owen is is is
not on a big contract.
He's still and this is theproblem every club has is that
you develop your homegrownplayers, and by the definition
they're good value becausethey're homegrown.
But at some point, and Dunny wasrenegotiating a contract, I
imagine, from a you know what, aa position of strength.
(14:42):
He's he's got 50 appearances,you know, he's an integral part,
but there is a limit, I guess,to these things.
And and again, you know, if II'm sure if I was playing
devil's advocate, someone wouldsay, Well, we've got a budget
and we can't blow the budget.
And we've got Rubiolo, we've gotBatley, we've got Joe Owen
coming through, we've got PaddyPierce.
(15:03):
You know, they it's a constantevolution, and and that is fine,
and I hundred percent understandthat.
We're not naive, but it just isannoying when you kind of
associate the idea that there issomething slightly special about
keeping your own code.
SPEAKER_03 (15:18):
And also the evolutions now become like we've
strengthened one of ouropponents, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_05 (15:26):
I absolutely agree, and you're right, and we have
decided well not we, the clubhave decided is to contract
their their expenditure and tocontract their squad.
So is it it's not a good time,surely, to release such a
talented player to a club who'llabsolutely bring out the best in
(15:46):
him, and and you could just youcan just see it now, can't you?
Him playing at f phenomenallywell for Quinn's and and beating
Bristol on a on a day andthinking, Well, there we go.
SPEAKER_02 (15:56):
But if if he does come back when he comes back to
the gate, we know he's that sortof player, whatever he does, he
will get he will get anapplause.
There might be another narrativehere, boys.
Maybe, maybe he is a secretagent that he's been put out
because Pat's thinking we ain'tgot enough money to win the
league, we've got to winsilverware.
So what we need is a spy, andthen so he goes for Harlequins,
(16:20):
and then he is playing all theseother teams and spying on the
other teams for us to uh to giveus it.
But no, that that was just whatI was dreaming when I was
daydreaming the other day.
Well look, boys, I mean I don'tknow much else we can say.
SPEAKER_05 (16:31):
I think I think we've we've we've done that,
yes.
SPEAKER_03 (16:34):
Well, we all say, Dunny, I know you'd be listening
to this, and we all love youlots, mate, and not just the
three of us in this room, butyou know, there's another 15,000
supporters out there and bearassured, and we're all
collectively gutted to see yougo.
But we do wish you all the best,and you know, we're gonna enjoy
watching you um doing what youdo, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
And uh and we'll see you down the stoop at some
point.
Um boys, I've I've got a fewtissues if you want them.
Just or should we just have amoment?
Well, they they they look usedto being enough.
We need those.
Well no, I mean, joking aside,we we don't want to be you've
got 50 birds.
We have.
I I meant to say, boys, I've gotthe bag of the bag of tissues.
SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
What are we doing with these though?
SPEAKER_02 (17:19):
I just realised that we were waiting for this moment.
SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
There is this.
SPEAKER_02 (17:22):
This is the rustle.
Now, I feel like this is acommunity that if anybody is
feeling upset out there, like usabout Dunny, get in touch with
me and I will somehow find a wayto get you a previous hand so
that you can wipe the bowl.
We were making it for thismoment, yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
I've still got it here, boys.
SPEAKER_00 (17:43):
I've still got Dunny's away shirt, his European
shirt.
SPEAKER_05 (17:46):
Has it not been collected yet?
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
Nobody's claimed it yet.
And I have to have a lot ofpeople.
SPEAKER_02 (17:50):
Well, that's got up in value, hasn't it?
It might be have to be are-raffle, and maybe we maybe we
should do this at the end of theseason.
If I will call the guy that wonit, I haven't actually genuinely
contacted him, but he hasn'tcontacted me, so he obviously
hasn't been listening to thelast few pods.
But if he doesn't want it, thenmaybe just maybe we'll we could
talk to Daddy about this as it'sit's sort of farewell, we might
(18:13):
be able to do something where hegives it away in person and so
on.
So uh there you go.
I finally found a use to thehankies, right?
Wait, we've got to cureourselves out there across the
club.
Well, on the positive, yeah, gotwell on the positive side.
I mean, there has been somerugby.
It it obviously we all know thatit's it's this this block of
(18:33):
premiership finished that we wetalked about in the last pod.
We thought that three from fivewas a pretty good turn.
Yeah, and given the injuries andgiven the fact that the two away
games we lost were the twoprobably the two hardest, yeah,
maybe apart from Sale, but uhyeah, Saracens and Bath.
So I think we we were prettyhappy.
(18:54):
I think we also felt in someways it's quite a good time for
some of our our injury ourinjury people to get fit again,
but of course there was still acouple of games there.
We've had one Prem Cup gameagainst Bath and we've had a
game against Argentina.
So I thought we'd just quicklywhip through those two games.
The first one, Miles, was the onthe back of losing 4015, I think
(19:17):
it was in the Prairie at Baththen very quickly welcomed them,
as it were, to the gate.
Um again it was a different sortof game.
Both teams had put out a lot ofAcademy players, which is what's
expected for these Premier Cupgames.
Um but Bath put out, I wouldsay, more first team players
than we did.
(19:37):
So they had Barbary playing,they had Chris Harris, they had
Tom de Glanville, they had somepretty deep they had Ewan
Richards, who's kind of academy,but he's about as good as most
of their first team.
They had a strong side.
We had Jack Bates was playing,um, we had Graham Slaughter, we
had a few.
Oh, Grey was was on the benchfor that as well.
(19:59):
So we had a few, but we did alsoput out a lot of our youngsters,
and that that in the spirit ofthe competition.
We lost 1949.
Yeah.
It was a I mean, it was the oldclassic tough day at the office.
I mean, me and Miles started bywatching it in the the in the
Dolmen, um, which was but thetrouble is you see too much in
the Dolman and you're thinking Idon't know how to watch it.
(20:21):
And uh anyway, so we then itwasn't because there was a few
spare seats, we migrated back tothe down to the landstand, and
we're about three rows back, andit's a completely different
experience watching the gamethree rows back in the lands
down.
You don't really see what'sgoing on, you can't really see
the pattern of the space, butyou do really feel the c
collision.
SPEAKER_05 (20:41):
Yeah, you feel you feel the size of the players and
you'd be the collision, doesn'tit?
SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
It just reinforced that they were just a stronger
side, they're their first teamplayers.
I mean, Barbary sadly went offinjured and and got quite a big
round of applause from BearsMasters.
Yeah, because he is a goodplayer and he'd been rampaging
and he he'd rampaged through andhe he did something to his hand,
he was punching the ground a bitlike AJ did.
He knew he'd done something tohis head.
He's had a lot of injuries.
(21:05):
He got tackled, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (21:06):
Rightly so, he got tackled from behind and and
slammed down, and I I thinkthat's injury, he'll be out for
a yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:13):
And I and I just think it's hard to say it, but
it's true that their academy arejust better than our academy at
the moment.
And that's not a that's not asubjective thing, that's an
objective fact, because they'vethey've really developed it and
they've spent a lot of money.
And and if you talk to ouracademy manager, he'll tell you
how much how big their catchmentarea is compared to ours.
Well, we know that.
So, in some ways, although I'vealways said this about Prem Cup
(21:36):
games, haven't I, boys, that youknow, at the end of the day, it
doesn't really matter.
It's a no jeopardy game.
And it felt a bit like that.
It was it was a bit of adisappointment that we didn't
quite I mean, Boschoff played.
We like he played well, Ithought, Aidan Boschoff.
We had the bearless Bevan, thethe Welsh guy that's come in,
scum off.
He he came on, he playedalright, and we had Victor
Wursnip in the uh play in thefirst name on the team sheet.
(22:01):
I mean I've got to say, VictorWursnip is an 18, I think he's
18-year-old, Clifton College.
He looks swag, he's got aswagger about him, and he's he's
uh it was a tough.
I think he was up againstHarrison, he was up against Will
Butt, who is no mug.
Nah.
He's uh and he doesn't make thebar thirsty, but Will Butt is a
big unit.
Um that's another classicsurname as well.
I mean, it was Wersnip againstButt.
(22:22):
But but I mean it's like thesort of thing you can imagine
saying.
I mean, I think I said to mydad, he I used to my dad said
he's 87, said, Where do you go?
I said, Oh, I went to see uhwent to see uh Bristol Play Bath
in the Prem Cup.
You in the Prem Cup?
I said, Well, there was a fewyoung lads, there was Victor
Wursnip.
SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
What parsnip, you say?
I said, No, Dad, Victor Worsnip.
SPEAKER_02 (22:44):
You know, it's a sort of sort of name that old
people are gonna get wrong.
And Miles was a little bit like,oh Victor Miles was being a bit
rude, actually, during the game.
No, during the game he was.
SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
And he was going, Victor, who calls that son
Victor?
This is someone called Milessaying that anyway.
SPEAKER_05 (23:00):
Anyway, there was an excuse back in the seven seas,
mate.
SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
That's the relying of saying.
In your credit, then in theArgentinian game, which came
back in a minute, he playedagain, he played really well
because he scored his debut try.
Yeah.
Miles was eating.
I mean, he had his hat and hewas eating it.
SPEAKER_05 (23:16):
Eating it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:16):
So it's a pie.
So I tell you, Miles, is thereanything you want to add for
that Prem Cup game?
SPEAKER_05 (23:21):
Not really.
It was a bit chastening for theyoung lads, wasn't it?
You're right, they had a spark,they had a little bit of sparkle
of their Prem team that which isjust a little bit better than
ours.
But it was you so it was alearning curve for the young
lads, a lot of Academy lads in,and I thought they put up a
well, they didn't put up a fightto a certain extent, um, but I
don't think you read too muchinto it.
(23:41):
Um no team's gonna be.
SPEAKER_02 (23:43):
The only other thing was it was the return of Matt
Prothero at Full.
Of course.
And I've got to say, I I didn'treally recognise him at all.
He looked like a bit put on abit of timber.
Well, I know he just looked abit older, which clearly is a
bit older, but I just seem toremember this kind of flowing
blonde hair, like sort ofstreaking down the wit wing,
scoring amazing tries.
(24:04):
And he he he just looked older.
He just looked and he's been outin we obviously went back to
Ospreys, and I think he was outin New Zealand.
Yeah, I think he said he had abit of kind of you know, he had
a bit of three-day stubble, soI'm sure he hadn't shaved when
he played for us before, and hehad three-day stubble, and he
looked good.
He looked good, and and um, youknow, actually I think what
position did he play?
Well he played fullback for thePrem Card.
(24:25):
But then we'll come on to thethe Argentina game.
He he played he played ten forthe Argentinian game, played
well.
So yeah, it was nice to seeProthero back, and he he played
well to be fair.
Yeah, good lad.
So so yeah, I mean I don't knowwhat more to say about that.
I mean I think it was a it was ait's a shame we lost.
I mean I think we've lost we'velost two one one now and we've
got one more game againstChiefs.
(24:46):
We'll see.
That's in not next week, theweek after I we'll see what
happens.
I don't know whether we're gonnaget through to the the plu the
knockout.
It would be quite nice, becauseI guess from an academy point of
view, if you can get at leastone more game, it's another bit
of game to get the guns out.
SPEAKER_03 (24:59):
Yeah, but let's face it, that's all it is.
That the competition is justtrying to get some game time for
for the extra.
SPEAKER_02 (25:07):
I mean, we've discussed the Prem Cup, uh
whether it was value in it.
I mean, obviously it was aseason ticket game, they have to
make them season ticket gamesbecause otherwise there aren't
that many games.
And I think for us, me and Mileswalking down from you know ten
minutes from home, it's fine.
I I imagine if you live up inyou know, I don't know, Downend
or North Bristol and orChippinsod.
You may not like that.
(25:28):
Or Sarah Beaumont, if you livedown in Devon or something like
that.
You know, it's not it's notquite as a big an incentive to
come up, but but it is what itis, I think.
It's one of the but yeah, yeah.
It did lead us on nicely toFriday.
The game this Friday night,yeah.
Which was the uh which was thefifth in our series of
exhibition games games.
(25:48):
And well, I mean it was it was apretty miserable night, it was
raining.
The team that we put out waspretty similar to the Prem Cup
team.
We had Jack Bates again wasplaying outside centre as a bit
of quality.
Yeah, we've got it.
Graham Slaw was playing Joe Owencaptained Joe Owen captains, um
Victor Wursnip was back atcentre.
(26:09):
Um we had Prothero went uh 10.
Um changes on the outside.
We had a few changes on thebents, and we had young Evan
Morris, I think, on the wing,one wing.
We had Aidan Boschoff on theother wing.
We had a couple of under 18characters.
Under 18 academies, yeah.
Josh Catwin, and then we had wehad some some real youth on the
on the on the bench.
(26:30):
And and yeah, they p they put upa pretty good show against a
pretty physical lookingArgentinian side, who I
understand would mainly pickfrom the Argentinian League.
There's a fledgling league, sothey're picked to get them
experienced, but they they lookpretty solid.
Pretty experience to me.
Unlike I think our boys played alot better against them than
(26:51):
they did against Bath in thePremier Cup game.
But maybe the Bath team werebetter than Argentinians, I
don't know.
Um, and you know, they they theywe scored first actually,
rolling ball.
Thomas William was playinghooker two and actually two
games.
He looks like a good academyprospect coming up at Hooker,
scored, but we scored first, andthen after that didn't really
score again.
SPEAKER_05 (27:11):
Right, there was an encouraging start, but you know,
you know, you look at the sizeof the some of those
Argentinians, they've beeneating a lot of beef.
The f the the whole pack lookedabsolutely huge.
Um, and you're right, thatUnion, you think outside of the
first team 23, they are the next23, so they are, you know, they
are no mugs, they're gonna putin a tough game.
(27:31):
You said you know, they play ina league in in Argentina, which
is competitive, so we shouldhave expected probably a very
good squad.
Um, and we decided as a club toput out Academy and some under
18s, um, and at the end of theday they got schooled, but
that's no disrespect to theeffort they put in, which was
(27:53):
110%.
SPEAKER_03 (27:55):
But I mean, it does lead us on to discuss it, and
Lee, you want to say something.
I just want to say, can we stopcalling them exhibition games
now?
Well, I think I'm gonna use asnooker analogy to this, right?
Yeah, yeah.
When we want exhibition games,we want to see Jimmy White, we
want to see O'Sullivan, we wantto see Alex Higgins doing Alex.
(28:16):
Yes, John Virgo doing trickshops.
We just want a game of rugby,almost like a barbarian style.
Let's just go for it rugbygames.
Okay.
We don't want to see TerryGriffiths do we?
SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
No.
No.
I mean, we st by the look of acouple of those RGs, we did see
Bill Wurbenek.
He was down at three.
And actually, their fly offwasn't too often.
But no, but Lee makes a you makea really good point.
Okay, the weather that option.
SPEAKER_05 (28:43):
The weather was poor, the crowd was really,
really poor on Friday night.
So I guess, you know, ultimatelythe question we're saying is
there's three podcasters and and10,000 season ticket holders.
Is this exhibition during thesituations now is it dead in the
water?
What do we think?
SPEAKER_02 (29:02):
I mean, this is I wrote a post article for this,
and and I was it got me thinkingbecause I did my research, and
basically we've done fiveexhibition games, and these were
sold brilliantly, right?
You know, quite soon after wecame out of lockdown.
And the idea is that there'sonly ten teams in the league.
We we have to offer more toseason ticket holders, and we
(29:23):
also want to grow the game.
We get the principle, we want toget it.
The principle's brilliant, andit started brilliantly with
South Africa.
That was class.
And you know what?
I look back at their lineup,they had Thomas Detoyd playing
for them, they had the guy thatI can't pronounce his name, but
their new Wonder Fly Half wasplaying on that night.
They had Marco Van Stadenplaying that night, they had
some serious players who'd gonethrough.
Now, I looked to our team, andwe had a fully loaded first
(29:47):
team.
It it was it wasn't all a firstteam, but every single player
was Joycey and Bats wereplaying.
Well, I remember when Bats wescored a try, and Bats just like
Lahina was playing, Jan Thomaswas playing, but it the But I
mean the um the Cash Point wasplaying.
Brian Byrne was playing.
Laheef was playing.
Um we had Harding was playing.
(30:08):
Of course, this was early in hisdevelopment, but he still he was
still a clearly a very SteveLouitou was playing, he Jake
Heenum was playing, we had um uhWill Porter was Shady was
playing.
SPEAKER_03 (30:20):
We we can say though, I mean obviously we
couldn't that we couldn't put ateam out like that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:24):
No, no, no, but this is my point.
I'm not I'm not criticized youknow it was conceived as an
exhibition and it was anexhibition.
Now for many reasons since.
So since then, we then playedthe Crusaders and they they came
and did the hacker.
I don't know if you remember, itwas like all in the midst.
We couldn't see it.
But that was iconic, yeah, andthey beat us quite easily.
(30:45):
We then had the Australia onelast year that wasn't season
ticket, but it was a ten or two.
It was a ten or draw.
Ironically, we had a reasonableside out, but we didn't have a
you know, we were hamstrung alittle bit by international
call-ups.
And that was a ten-o-draw, so itwasn't really an exhibition, it
was kind of like a cup, it wasjust a kind of league game, and
then we then had the Queens andReds, and we know the club Tom
(31:06):
Tainton has been on this pod andsaid that that was a f that went
wrong, that was all wrong.
But then, you know, the problemwas we had the the Argentinian
one, and it was a kind of let'sreboot this exhibition idea.
Um, and it was a good idea, andit did sound like a good idea
because we have the connectionswith the Pumas, with all of our
but you know, me and you arethere, Miles, and and and it's a
(31:28):
fact to say there weren't verymany people there, there were
many empty seats.
That means that season ticketholders didn't go and not many
people bought tickets.
SPEAKER_03 (31:37):
Now, clearly we know why that is.
Yeah, I mean I don't play.
I can tell you my point of viewfor that, is because it's it
wasn't interesting.
I didn't go to that game, I hadno interest whatsoever in going
to that game.
And that was because it it itwasn't it wasn't any of any
interest to me whatsoever.
And I think that I can speakfrom the people who didn't go.
(31:59):
Yeah, I mean f full respect, andwe do appreciate the club are
trying to do they're trying toshift things and they're trying
to to generate interest.
But for me, uh that's not theway for them to do it.
Tom Tengott is great lookingoutside the box.
Let's let's get a corridor teamdown to us.
SPEAKER_02 (32:18):
Yeah, I think and I think I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_03 (32:20):
Let's do a double error, let's go to I think more
points.
SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
Hey, let's go to the arms park.
Yeah.
Let's do a double error.
Let's go to let's go to theprincipality stadium.
Oh wait, we've already But no, Imean what we're trying to say
here is that it's like it was agreat idea that maybe has now
run its course.
I think so.
But I know what they still needto do something for season
ticket holders.
Now, I think it's a goodopportunity to reboot that and
(32:44):
and look at something different,and that's a great idea, like
look at some sort of you know,and you know, the other a Bears
kind of or Welsh team orwhatever, and and call it an
exhibition and then play it likean exhibition.
But the other thing that annoyedme about um uh Friday was that
we had Sarah Cox refing, andSarah Cox is a premiership ref,
but it was she was refing likeshe was being marked.
(33:05):
Yeah.
So she was br she brandished acouple of yellows, at least.
And you're like, we don't wantto see and also the game.
She shouldn't even be taking anycards out on the and also and
then it goes back to your reallygood point a few um pods ago
about about thinking about thepersonality of the ref for the
game.
So we were saying that Tempo wasa little bit, you know, he he
(33:28):
was a bit tense about the Bathgame, and he a Luke Pierce would
have managed that game muchbetter.
Now, it's no disrespect to SarahCox, but maybe a kind of some uh
somebody with all you knowwho've been a bit more
experienced, he's quite good attalking lads, would have said,
look, lads, let's stop a bit ofthis side entry now.
Come on, let's just do thisproperly.
I mean the other thing thatslightly disappointed me was
that we we box kicked it morethan I've ever seen as box kick
(33:50):
it for about a year.
Now, they may be playing to theconditions, but it's like that's
not really getting me thatexcited.
SPEAKER_03 (33:56):
So you did get a bit of Terry Griffiths.
Yeah, yeah, we didn't know.
SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
We got a bit of Joe Davis, you remember Joe Davis
all in black and white.
It suddenly went black andwhite.
But the point I'm trying to makeis that we we really understand,
we it it I actually enjoyed thenight, but but and we and then
in hindsight, a lot of peoplesay, Oh, it's great to see the
hit out for the boys.
And it was great to see it, butthat wasn't the reason why that
expensive game was put on.
(34:20):
And we had a context isdifficult, lots of injuries.
We've you know, we hadridiculous people getting called
up for international.
Toby Fricker got called up forthe USA and he's on loan.
I know, yeah.
And we had like the you know,Luca went out with the
Georgians, and then Moroney isright.
And then Moroney gets picked forthe Argentina.
Ironically, because he's playedtwo good games for us and played
well for the barbarians, andit's all our own fault.
(34:41):
So I guess what I'm trying tosay is, and I tried to get this
across in the post, it wasn't acriticism, but I'm just saying
it feels like when I what youknow it's run its course, but we
we we're not saying don't dosomething.
Let's have another let's have anopen and honest discussion about
other opportunities.
SPEAKER_03 (34:56):
No, and you you you know, you kindly let us read the
post before you sent it out andasked for opinions.
And I I thought it was reallywell balanced.
I thought you put all the keypoints in that you needed to.
And I think Tom Tainton, if hereads that tomorrow in the post,
I think he he probably hold hishands up and say, like, that was
yeah, we we well he's alreadyagreed that there's mistakes
(35:17):
have been made.
Um and I think that it was itwas really well written, mate.
You're not criticising the clubat all.
What we were saying is likemaybe a different idea in our
future.
SPEAKER_05 (35:26):
Okay, well yeah, the the innovation that I think that
Tom's bringing is fantastic, andhe and he said that to us on the
Pardon fans, and he's great.
He's a he's a young CEO and welove it.
Um but I think you're right,he's inherited potentially this
fixture, hasn't he?
The the the exhibition game.
And I think you're right, it'srun its course in its current
format.
SPEAKER_03 (35:46):
Well, I think we all agree that's dining out on the
South African night.
No, no, it ain't gonna happen.
SPEAKER_05 (35:52):
So something needs to change, you know.
You a forum, it's like maybe getfans engaged.
What would you like to see?
SPEAKER_06 (35:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (35:58):
If you if you had it maybe outsized of the season
ticket, and and thenpay-per-view, but you've got to
put something in thatpay-per-view that fans will come
and see.
Let's put it out to ourlisteners then, Miles.
SPEAKER_03 (36:09):
What do our listeners think?
Because it would be uh we've gotsome brilliant, really
intelligent listeners, and itwould be great to see what their
thoughts are.
Because we need a game.
SPEAKER_02 (36:18):
Yeah, it's still gonna be only nine home games
and two Prem Cup home games andtwo European ones.
There has to be something.
SPEAKER_05 (36:25):
But so But you know, for we've met some players up
this afternoon at ShahlstreetPark, uh, some types of players,
some listeners, etc.
Uh I think they get we are acompetitive price season ticket.
We all know that, and we reallyappreciate it.
But potentially don't fill thegaps with games like this that
don't mean anything, the resultis poor, and some innovation,
(36:47):
you know, uh you're right.
Let let's get let's get someideas together and see what we
can fill.
Other clubs have done nothing atall, have they?
Yeah, yeah.
And they've charged the sameprice for their season ticket.
Yeah.
And we're really grateful thatwe've we've we've kept the
season ticket hold at the pricethe same, but something needs to
change on this innovation.
SPEAKER_02 (37:05):
And especially if you know you're running a small
squad like we knew, yeah, andyou know there's autumn
internationals, and it seems tobe more nations seem to be
playing all at the same time.
It was always going to be astruggle together.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (37:16):
Well, can I can I just make a kind of side point?
Yeah, I did read that there'sthere was a few supporters and
really not very happy about PatLange using Fitzardin and Yancey
for the bar bars as well.
And Maroni, yeah.
But obviously, you know it's ait's a tough one, isn't it?
(37:37):
Because I think if you'relooking at with your with your
hoops on and they're thinking wejust can't have any of these
guys injured.
Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (37:47):
Yeah, and I I mean I think that was one of those ones
that it all turned out well inthe end.
None of them got injured.
And I don't think, and ofcourse, on the back of that,
Fitzy's now got an Englandacquaintan, but I don't think
anybody would begrudge.
Oh, you've segmented nicely,have you?
Yeah, which is so I think we'vedone the we've done the the
exhibition game.
Hang on.
Oh whoops.
(38:08):
Oh anyway, moving on.
So yeah, moving on quicklythrough the agenda.
Um yeah, I thus we wanted to sayhow I mean how good that is that
Fitzy's finally got somerecognition.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think in some ways we needto give Pat a bit of credit that
Pat backed him.
SPEAKER_01 (38:24):
He did.
SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
And you know, it has perhaps made a an impact on the
selectors, whoever they are, andthey they realise that Fitz is a
and I think I think my postarticle uh from the uh from the
one in the the Exeter game whereI said that you know he's he's
the he's like he's everythingyou want for a club player, he's
a full pro and stuff like that.
So um fair play to Fitz, and byall accounts, he was off he was
(38:47):
on the bench and came on.
I've no idea how well he played.
I know Bat scored a try, whichis good.
And and and just it's what if henever gets anything again,
that's recognition of the factwe're talking about a guy who's
got a hundred appearances for apremier for a top six, let's
call us a top six premiership,top four in the last seasons,
premiership club, one of thebest, you know, good league, and
(39:11):
one of the youngest captains.
One of the youngest captains whowas playing for Durham Fourths,
who hasn't come from ascholarship through a pathway,
was picked up because there wassomething about him, and clearly
has proven to Pat.
We know what Pat Pat is uh hisown man, he saw something in
him, he gave him the captaincyover Big Steve, and as you know,
and Big Steve would probablygive his blessing.
(39:33):
So, you know, you don't give a24-year-old guy the captaincy of
a premiership club at the age of24 if there's nothing about him.
So brilliant.
SPEAKER_03 (39:42):
Um fair play to fit, and and you know, I hope it's
the start of it's only the startof things.
And well done bats as well forscore and a trial.
SPEAKER_02 (39:50):
I mean the bats thing was was brilliant because
uh he had to leave the trainingin the week because we need to
congratulate him on his secondyear.
Yeah, yeah.
But that's also segues back tothe Argentina game, is that Joe
Owen was then called in to Bathbecause they were training at
Bath University to train becauseI guess they needed to fill a
bat-sized hole, although JoeOwen's a bit taller, just to
(40:12):
kind of have the numbers, andthen basically didn't train with
the team that played againstArgentina and came back.
And then that's another thing,you know.
We we had a team that was wasyou know never played together
before as well, and that doesn'thelp the spectacle, even though
they played well.
So big Joe Owen, well played.
And actually, Joe Owen wasinterviewed afterwards on the
socials and spoke very well.
He's uh he seems like a reallyintelligent, articulate sort of
(40:34):
guy, and of course, he did holdthe flag up at Gloucester with
James Dunn.
SPEAKER_01 (40:38):
So he he's a hero as well.
SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
He's now been sucked into the Bears beyond the game.
He's sucked into our next podvicinto our universe, and he cannot
get away from it.
In fact, the next thing we'llfind is Joe Owen uh is now
leaving the club at the end ofthe season because Saraces have
offered him like loads of money,and he says, I'm I've got it to
go, but I just don't want toever hold that flag again.
(41:01):
Um anyway, so anything else tosay on the international?
I think we've moved on.
No, I think we've I suppose theother thing I would say
negatively speaking, and I don'tknow whether he's injured or
not, but it seemed verydisappointed that Ogre, Gabriel
Ogre, didn't appear.
Like having played for England Aand England in the winter,
probably been the mostconsistent premiership hooker in
the first five games in terms ofaccuracy, tries.
(41:23):
I just don't know what's gone onthere.
No idea.
SPEAKER_05 (41:26):
Anyone does know let's know.
I mean, we're supremelydisappointed that it's always
getting never getting called upinto the the full A England
training squad, isn't it?
Ahead of the likes of you knowTheo Daniel.
Well he got injured, didn't he,as well.
SPEAKER_02 (41:38):
But yeah, Blameyre, they got Jamie Blame in there.
SPEAKER_05 (41:41):
Right, and then the consistency that he delivers
he's much better.
SPEAKER_02 (41:44):
Don't understand that.
But anyway, if anyone knowsthat.
Anyway, moving on.
One more game to quickly talkabout was the we went down
Shaftsbury Park, didn't we,Miles afternoon?
A bit of a whim, we thought we'dgo down.
Saracens are in town.
Marley Packer, plumber from Idid drive past and and I did
waves to you.
SPEAKER_03 (41:59):
Thanks very much.
SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
Yeah, all Marley Packer, plumber from Yeovil.
It's always good to go and seeSaracens.
SPEAKER_03 (42:04):
Um, she didn't.
No, she stopped.
SPEAKER_02 (42:08):
Well, early on there was a massive leak, and our
friend Ella Loveybond wentstraight through their defence.
Scored early.
First ten minutes, I thoughtwe're gonna hammer Saracens.
They were they weren't at theraces at all.
Turn it around.
As is the way, their sort ofpower play came back in, they
scored two quick tries forhalf-time, came back out.
And although, to be fair, thethe the girls got back in it,
(42:30):
they won a few scrum penalties,they just didn't make their I
mean sadly they weren't theyweren't really killing the
clinic after.
SPEAKER_05 (42:37):
The the set piece in the line out didn't they hit the
jump uh And that might be asmuch Saracen's spoiler as it was
you know we equally had we hadum our Red Roses in Abby Ward
and Sarah Vern.
They had two or three, didn'tthey?
Just breach uh Zoe Harrison whokicked off the team.
(42:59):
So they you know the and Marvel.
Yeah so they were a good size.
Showed the class, and ultimatelyI think they they overpowered
and looking like they could betop two finishes.
They're gonna be fine, yes.
I think so.
SPEAKER_02 (43:12):
We just didn't get it out to our our our wingers,
did we?
Billy Millie Wiz and RenikaBonner, when they did get the
ball, they would they they hadno space.
They tried their best.
But yeah, good afternoon.
We did have a good afternoon.
We saw Crutti, we saw MarcusWatts, we saw Stokes, we saw
Ness and the Tommy.
Yeah, Tom James and Dave Ward.
Yeah, and then Dave we saw DaveWard, but Dave Ward was looking
(43:34):
very hassled because he waslooking at trying to control his
daughter on his own.
And he he wasn't watching, hejust went inside the clubhouse
and he was trying to like keepher busy.
We went over and said a quithello to him, and he was like,
Oh, and we said, Oh, it's David,it's the Pud Boys.
He's like, Oh yeah, good seeyou, lads.
He said, Yeah, we won't we won'tkeep you see, you got your hands
full.
And I thought this is classic,you know, you've got like a work
(43:54):
a red roses winner on the pitch,and he's he can't even watch the
game because he's trying to keephis little daughter busy and he
was struggling, he was sweatinglike that, and he was like, and
then we've all been there.
That's what we almost I almostsaid it we've been there, but I
thought that sounds sopatronizing.
But anyway, it was nice to seeDave again.
Yeah, now I mean Anne Tillerhaving an up and down season, he
is a lovely fella.
(44:14):
Mostly down, and uh we'll seewhat happens with that.
So, boys, I think we're we'rewhipping through.
I don't want to spend too muchtime because it was supposed to
be a quick one.
I've got two more things to do.
Yeah, go for it.
Um we had a few tidy up a fewcomments from listeners that
we've had over the last coupleof weeks.
I don't want to read out.
But then quickly, EuroShirt wasreleased.
Quick, very, very quickly,thoughtsley.
SPEAKER_03 (44:35):
Um I don't know if I can pronounce the thoughts on
there.
Uh I'm not a big fan.
Not a big fan.
That'll do.
SPEAKER_05 (44:42):
Uh Miles?
Not for me.
I'm not parting with any money.
Simple as that.
No, I mean it's not uniqueenough and progressive enough to
me to worry about.
SPEAKER_02 (44:50):
I quite like it, to be honest.
I can see it as a sort offashionable attire, but my only
problem is that given our recordin Europe in the last very long,
it it's it's 70 quid seemsreally expensive because you're
only gonna like potentially wearit four times.
So are you gonna wear it toScarlet's?
Oh, well I might well I'm notgonna buy it, I'm gonna wear my
old one.
(45:11):
And the other thing is I stilllike old Euros, yeah.
So I've got to beuring it.
My point is that I'd rather wearI've got the classic suspension
bridge one for a few years.
So that's what I'm gonna wear toScarlet.
And me.
SPEAKER_05 (45:22):
And we've got by the way, if anyone's listening, if
you ever die, put that in yourwheel together.
SPEAKER_02 (45:26):
Yeah.
So so I think it's uh it's itit's fair enough.
People, there'll be people whowant to buy it and they have to
do it.
And you know, I I quite like thedesign.
It's a bit like a magic eye sortof painting, wasn't it?
You look at it hard enough, yousee a picture of uh Pat Lamb
comes out.
Yeah, spinning a first trophy,yeah.
Um couple of other things, thento finish off, had a couple of
emails, had one from DaveRogers, David Rogers, and it
(45:50):
links back to his brother.
It might be, it could be Kenny'sbrother.
I know, yeah, it could beKenny's Kenny's uh we could do
this all night, it could beKenny's nephew.
Um but he um and he he said, andthis links back to the Prem uh
the Europe, the Argentiniangame.
He said, Not sure if you'redoing a pod this weekend.
We are.
I missed the match yesterday.
Brackets would have gone if notfor local fireworks.
(46:11):
It's like even that, he thoughtabout it.
SPEAKER_03 (46:14):
It's even a local.
I reckon he's he was onlytalking about sparklers and he's
got a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
No offence, no offence, the club, but as it
that is an ongoing gag that wewill continue to use.
Um, but it sounds like it was agood experience for the young
guns, correct?
Nice to hear Harris, Oli Harrisfrom Yat and RFC, scoring on his
debut, which was Miles Wendy'sbest friends.
Why you know about best friends'nephew?
It's almost family miles almost,isn't it?
(46:41):
I'm still interested in theseinternational friendlies.
Hammers have a David is positiveand think there is value in them
for the club, especially if itends up as New Zealand one year.
And that is the one thing wedidn't say.
We mentioned.
We always said the All Blackswould be the one.
It would be.
But we missed out on their Ateam, didn't we?
So if Mark maybe I mean I thinkTom manages to get it, I don't
(47:01):
care whether they put BrizzlyBear out, we will go and watch
the All Blacks.
SPEAKER_03 (47:05):
Well of course we would.
But if I'm going to be totallyhonest, I don't ever see it.
That's a long, long wait at themoment to be as free for a
special occasion.
SPEAKER_02 (47:15):
Um he did say one thing for you guys to ponder and
maybe pressure for next time.
I'm not sure we we have got thismuch pressure.
I'd like to see the club use thefriendly matches as an
opportunity to use the oldclassic letters instead of
numbers would be a greatgesture, but a nice one.
Probably unlike it.
Um but on letters, yeah.
I know we had a di discussionabout the the uh the letters
(47:35):
coming off shirts.
Falling off shirts.
Yeah, yeah, I remember pre-game.
Pre-game.
We had John Mags emailed us andsaid, Great podcasters ever,
lads.
Thanks.
Just to add to your goat aboutthe misspelling or the letters
falling off, David Flatman saidto me a while back that the kit
man at at Bath once purposelyleft the L of his name on the
(47:57):
back of his shirt.
SPEAKER_03 (47:58):
I love it.
So that was good.
Oh, your kit man.
Did you say Mags?
SPEAKER_02 (48:03):
John Mags.
I wonder if he's any relation toNeil.
Could be.
There's a lot of Mags in Bristolthere.
Mags is a Bristol surname, isn'the?
Um what else do we add?
Oh, another good one.
You remember me and you gotharangued in the beer queue by
Andrew Pearson who hadn't owedhis shirt.
Oh, the shirt.
And we've had an ongoingcommunication with Andrew at aka
giant.
(48:24):
Well, we had an email last weeksaying, just a quick one, lads,
finally picked up my hair.
SPEAKER_00 (48:30):
That's the positivity we need.
SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
The letters have come up.
unknown (48:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (48:36):
And it's the wrong size, and apparently it's
another another six weeks forthe right size to come in.
But he said, picked up, we'vefinally picked up my away shirt
just in time for theinternational break.
We'll save it for Northampton athome in late December.
So we're pleased for andactually to be fair to me,
please for him, but what?
Yeah, and then we had one morequite topical one, which was
(48:58):
from Dom Somerville.
And Dom Somerville, you and me,sat next to him and his wife at
the uh big day out at Cardiff.
Hi guys, love in the pod.
Jimmy's brother.
It could be Jimmy's brother.
Sorry, I've got to stop doingthis.
It could be, and he said, higuys, love in the pod.
I can't sing that.
Hi.
SPEAKER_03 (49:12):
No, I was saying, could you actually do it in
Jimmy Somerville's voice?
Love in the podcast!
SPEAKER_02 (49:18):
Your recent episode, this is a serious one though,
following the tough loss toBath, or he called it the
Unwashed, was very therapeuticas I work with a number of their
fans.
I heard this story from aGloucester fan who explained how
the Unwashed are able toassemble such an amazing squad
of stars and remain within thesalary contract.
SPEAKER_05 (49:33):
A Gloucester fan.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (49:34):
Oh, okay.
The story was this (49:35):
you join on a three-year contract in the
years one and two, you're paidbasic pay.
In year three, your salaryincreases three times the year
one marquee rate.
So fat Derek, aka Finn Russell,but I think that's a bit harsh
because I quite like FinnRussell, and he was very polite
when I asked him to do the year.
You can like a thing.
Would earn three million plus inhis last year.
So this whole thing about theydon't share the contract over
(49:56):
the three things, and theysomehow balance it out.
Um, then allows you to havethree marquee players at any one
time.
So one year you can have some ofthe three people on three
million.
Yeah.
I've done some digging and thereis very little out there.
So he's heard this from a matewho knows a mate who's a
Gloucester fan, who's who's big,big Andy, who who has got a
(50:17):
long, a lifelong deta hate ofanybody from bath.
SPEAKER_03 (50:20):
But apart from Gloucester fan, I it kind of
feels like we're trying to beset up on this.
Oh, I feel like when we say nocomment, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:26):
But he does say, Do you have any sources you might
be able to confirm?
SPEAKER_01 (50:29):
No comment.
No comment.
And it's this legal of bendingthe reel, rules, no comment.
SPEAKER_03 (50:34):
But but let's but he might not be far from the farm.
We've got to corroborate.
I know.
SPEAKER_02 (50:40):
Anyway, up the bears, he says.
Um, and then finally, just oneof the we weren't, you know, we
were kind of umming and aringabout a pod, and then well,
should we do it?
We got nothing to talk about,although we managed to talk
about stuff for quite a while.
But we were coming out of theArgentina game, and some guy
came up, said, said, Oh, you'rethe pod guys, aren't you?
Bears beyond the gate, someonewe've never met before and said,
(51:02):
Oh, I love we love listeningbecause we just love just you
chatting about rugby, about whatwe think about, and it's really
fun, and we we don't mind doingthat it's not polished or
whatever.
And they had old Red Cliffeansum rugby shirts on, and it was
so I said I I said I'd give thema shout out.
So it was Gary, and it waslittle Harry, and it was Big
(51:24):
Mike.
Big Mike.
So Gary, Harry, and Mike, weappreciate you commenting.
And and in a way, you were theones that decided to uh to to
stimulate us to do this pod,amongst other things as well.
So cheers for that, and then andthen loads of other people.
SPEAKER_03 (51:39):
Yeah, I mean that's why we do it, isn't it?
And then finally On that note,were you gonna say, sorry, just
jumping back to what we we'retalking about scorers away on
December the 6th.
SPEAKER_06 (51:47):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (51:47):
We would love because we all three of us are
gonna be there.
Yeah, we go, yeah.
We cannot wait for that.
Yeah.
And if there's any theirsupporters there, come and join
us and find us.
SPEAKER_02 (51:58):
Let's have a beer or two.
Well, we're going early becausewe're driving up because we've
got a travel lodge, haven't we,Mars?
We have, yeah.
And therefore we were we maywell start thinking about this
close to the time of of oftrying to do a bit of research,
finding out somewhere, and wemay just say, right, we're gonna
be here, because we could go upa bit earlier, we're gonna be
here at this place at a certaintime, come in, and we can have a
(52:19):
sort of bears thing going on.
Right, final thing.
Robin Handley, uh Hambley won'tlike this, but there is another
I just spelled his name right.
Oh, there is this going poet,and it's not Debs from K-Town.
There is another poet jostlingfor laureateship.
And this is JP Holden, who had abit of a pop in the last did an
(52:42):
acrostic, but based on listeningto stuff that we've said in the
pods, has come up with threerhyming poems.
The first one is the first onehe says.
It was after the bath game whenwe were talking about Spencer
being a you know JP Holden.
(53:04):
At JP Holden.
Here we go.
There was there is a scrum halfcalled Ben Spencer, who is gobby
and known for his temper.
He knows him well.
On his shirt, there's a nine, sohe's expected to whine for sure.
He's the Prem's worst offender.
I feel this guy knows a lotabout rugby.
I'm assuming it's a bloke, couldbe wrong.
(53:26):
Then he was on the one about acracking start.
It could be Yeah, he is acracking start.
But then he then picked up onyour you said you didn't like
Miles Reed.
SPEAKER_03 (53:36):
And I do not remember that.
I yeah, of course I remember.
I still don't like Miles Reed.
SPEAKER_02 (53:42):
Because he's so good.
Yeah, he said Bath has a Bathhas a Bath have a back row
called Miles Reed, who had hair,then it began to recede.
Now the one time ginge is anoise round the fringe and lives
in Lee's head rent-free.
It doesn't quite rhyme, but it'spretty good.
And then finally, I'd say heknows Miles, then he's got he's
(54:03):
got one for Miles here.
And this was the Or Miles.
Yeah, it's one Olympic.
Miles showed a lot of man lovefor Moroni.
Oh yeah.
So this is this is this is foryou.
Go on in.
Said Matty Moroni's a new boyfor Briz.
His impact is hard not to miss.
And so lo and behold, if hisfeet don't get cold, Miles will
(54:25):
blow him a kiss.
SPEAKER_06 (54:26):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03 (54:28):
Whoa, are you wait?
That's gotta be Hammy Hambley indisguise.
Could be Hammy Hambley indisguise.
SPEAKER_02 (54:36):
It could be a third Hambley we've never heard of
that's coming in from nowhere,but it could be a mizzen.
Seriously, we could have a alaureate.
SPEAKER_03 (54:43):
If that is JP Holden, then that is class,
right?
And he's even got a poet's name.
SPEAKER_02 (54:50):
Yeah, so we appreciate that.
And it also shows that heactually, well, Leslie ran it
through AI and said, right,listen to the transcript and
come up with a couple of poemsthat are quite good, then, but
we'll assume he is a keenlistener to the pod.
So if you want to make up somesort of rhyming poem for this
pod, then we'll look out for it.
SPEAKER_03 (55:09):
The Hamley brothers are going to be on that now.
Some of these are already on it.
SPEAKER_02 (55:14):
Okay.
Right, boys, we need to wrap itup.
It was supposed to be a shortone.
It is about nearly an hour.
Oh well, I'm sure people repeat.
I'm sure people can fast forwardthrough it if they want to.
So anyway, um, we probably won'tdo a pod next weekend.
SPEAKER_05 (55:29):
Probably until Northampton.
SPEAKER_02 (55:30):
We'll do something to preview the Northampton game,
may get a couple of things inthere.
So in the meantime, everyone,have a good week.
Stay safe, and
I'm James Dumman and you're listening to Bears Beyond
(00:02):
the Gate.
You're listening to Bears Beyondthe Gate, a Bristol Bears
podcast made by fans for fans.
With three friends who love theclub, the game, and all things
bears.
Well, boys, uh, we are actuallyaway from our spiritual home.
We're slumming it.
We're slumming it.
(00:23):
We've gone budget.
Um we're back in, well, my housetonight, and we haven't got any
of our brand new equipment.
We literally sat around a littletable with three or four books,
a box, and the mobile recorderrecorder right on the top.
But um we weren't sure we weregonna do a pod, but we decided
(00:43):
we needed to do one tonight, andthen we found out that there was
some comedy thing going on atthe Bristol Beer Factory, so
we've had to go back to ourroots.
SPEAKER_03 (00:51):
Which is it's nice though, I like it.
I mean, asn't on a positivescore.
SPEAKER_05 (00:54):
Any any pants on a radiator?
SPEAKER_03 (00:56):
Well, I don't know what that is, but I'm not gonna
get too close to it.
It doesn't look like pee.
SPEAKER_02 (01:00):
Those are actually my pajama shorts.
Well, you know what it's likenow, boys, with the winter
coming in.
Yeah, yeah.
When you do the washing, you'vegot to sit down.
We're a we're a family of four.
Needs must, mate.
We get it, we get it.
And also we haven't had to situp for hours.
We haven't had to sit up forhours.
And uh we haven't had to do thesort of small talk with Lewis to
just make sure he remembers togive us the beers and stuff like
(01:21):
that.
SPEAKER_03 (01:21):
Well, that's the downside.
We've got no we've had to buyour own beers, haven't we?
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Which is uh And you'll notice that the room's
changed a little bit.
We've now got a proper work deskbehind us.
SPEAKER_05 (01:30):
Um, so I'm drinking an uh a competitor's beer.
SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
Apologies.
I think you sh well I think whenyou're away from the beer
factory.
When you're away from home openseason, yeah, um, but yeah, we
this is uh we're a little bitmore cramped because we my
daughter started a GCSE's thisyear and sh she needed a sort of
study area, so we've changed itinto it.
But you know, it feels good.
But anyway, boys, we decided todo a pod.
It's always difficult this timeof year, isn't it?
(01:54):
Because the Prem finishes, thenthere's a bit of Prem cut, then
we we have our exhibition game,um, then there's a bit of a
break, and then you know thePrem doesn't restart until well,
it's 23rd Saturday, the 28th.
No, it's later of November.
But we we did have someterrible, terrible news in the
(02:16):
week that meant we really,really felt we needed to get
together and have an emergencypod.
Well, we needed a therapysession after that news, didn't
we?
It was therapy, and of course, alot of you boys out there and
and girls and girls as well,sorry.
I don't know what came over methere.
And men and men and women andall sorts, and anybody, and
anyone who's gender neutral, andprobably a few there's probably
(02:36):
a few cats and dogs out therethat listen as well.
SPEAKER_03 (02:38):
And maybe uh is it Free Eye Atlas, maybe that is a
couple of Indians on board aswell who listen.
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
But for all of our millions of listeners, of
course, I guess if you do listento the pod regularly, you'll
know what we're talking about.
It was a rumour a few weeks ago,we hoped it wasn't true, but now
it's all come out in the thepress and even now officially
come out that well, I go as farto say that almost best friend
of the pod, um James Dunn, isgonna be leaving Bristol Bears,
(03:07):
his hometown club, at the end ofthe year.
And I think if there is anyoneout there that hasn't heard the
news or hasn't seen any of thedetail, I think I think it we
owe it to Dunny to read to readhis statement that he uh he he
wrote for the fans.
So here it goes.
It goes, Dear Bristol Bearsfans, that's us, boys, yeah, and
(03:28):
loads of other people.
Um I will I'm s I was a littlebit disappointed he didn't say
dear Bears fans and the podboys, but I'll let him off
because it's a big moment.
There's still time.
And he said, I will be leavingBristol at the end of the
season, a club that I've grownup with, from coming through the
academy to running out at AshtonGate.
Bears has shaped me as a playerand a person.
(03:50):
I'm grateful to every teammate,staff member, and coach who
believed in me, and to Pat forgiving me the opportunity to
establish myself in thePremiership.
It's a brilliant group of boyshere, and I'm grateful to call
them mates.
Thanks to Steve Lansdowne andhis family for what he has done
for our club.
Being a homegrown player atBristol has been an honour, and
(04:11):
I have never taken it forgranted.
But life is also about growth,and that means stepping into the
unknown.
For me personally, this has beenone of the hardest decisions
I've ever made.
But it's time for a new chapter.
I've changed a lot during mytime here.
Losing my dad and overcomingmany challenges has given me the
perspective to go and testmyself in a different
(04:32):
environment and experience lifein a new city, having spent my
life here in the West Country.
To the fans at Ashton Gate,you've been incredible.
You've always supported me andmy family, and it's given me
memories I will always treasure.
Bristol will always be home, andI have no doubt that the club
will continue to go fromstrength to strength to
(04:53):
strength.
We still have so much to achievethis season, and I'm determined
to leave with silverware.
Once a bear, always a bear,James Dunn.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
True.
Absolutely true.
Well boys, I'm gonna pass itover to you.
Do you want to go first, Lee, orLee?
What are you?
SPEAKER_03 (05:09):
Uh I mean, first of all, obviously, speaking for all
three of us, we're we're allabsolutely gutted that Dunny's
gone or going.
Um but I have to admire andrespect his decision.
I think that you know he'sputting himself outside the box
and outside of his comfort zone,and I think in any walk of life,
(05:32):
that's a really tough thing todo.
It takes a lot of courage, ittakes a lot of guts and
determination, and I think thatI mean there's gonna be no as as
gutted as as we are to to seehim go, there's gonna be no
bigger supporters of James Donthan the three of us, is there?
And I'm gonna love seeing him ina albeit in a quince shirt, but
(05:54):
I'm gonna love seeing him play,and I'm gonna love seeing him
smash the opposition.
So gutted, yes, but I canrespect his decision and um I
think we're fully behind him,aren't we?
Miles?
SPEAKER_05 (06:06):
Yeah, I I might reiterate, I feel like we're I
feel like we were in mourning asa group of lads, aren't we?
You know, we've learned torespect, you know, James Dunn as
a player, a friend, you know,and a contributor to our podcast
over the last year.
Uh, and he was ultimately anabsolute top, top bloke, amazing
(06:27):
player, and the growth we'veseen him come from the academy
to first team to that try atBath at the rank in the
semifinal last year, just toppedit off.
A true Bristolian, as he said,you know, it it's so tough for
him to leave a club that he'sjust grown up with, and it's so
hard to move on to the nextchapter completely unknown to
(06:48):
him.
But we wish him the we wish himwell.
We hope that he progresses, youknow, and and Quinn's no doubt
will, you know, grow him as aplayer and ultimately, you know,
might get on the internationalstage, but we're absolutely
gutted.
But he goes with goes with ourblessing, or of course.
SPEAKER_02 (07:04):
Yeah, he yeah, he needs our blessing.
Yeah, he needs absolutely.
Um I'll add to that.
I mean, I remember Lee sayingmany pods ago we were discussing
a team selection, and I think itwas just after he'd come back
from Jersey.
And I remember you specificallysaying, uh, I think James Dunn
would be good to get in theside.
And it was when we hadn'treally, we didn't know much
(07:25):
about him, he'd been an Academyboy.
And I do remember you sayingthat, and you had a you had seen
something in him, and you saidwe need you know we need to get
Dunny in the side, or James Dunnin the side, and then he's done
he's got over fifty appearancesin the the heat of battle in the
premiership, and including amassive shift at Claremont,
(07:45):
which which I think proves whata great player he is already and
what a player he can be.
And obviously, with ourconversations with Dunny, uh we
were very lucky to to get him tocome and talk to us on the pod
twice.
And one of the things he wasvery clear about is that he had
a very specific role in theteam, which was to do the filthy
(08:07):
stuff, which was to get up, hitRux, which was to stop the
opposition playing.
And he said that you know he washe Bats did the the line-out
calling, and that was somethinghe wanted to develop and learn,
but he was in charge of malldefence, and my mole defence has
been something that has beenreally, really good.
So this is a guy who is not he'snot got potential, the guy is
already there, um, and you know,he is going to and grow and
(08:31):
develop, like he said.
And we did send him a personalmessage on our WhatsApp, on our
um Instagram, because that's howwe contact him most of time, and
he generally replies.
And and we send him a littlemessage, just basically off
saying, you know, we are gutted,we understand what you're
saying, you know, we really do.
We really think it's a realshame that a brist a really good
Bristolian player is leaving theclub.
Yeah, of course.
And he said, Thank you guys,been an absolute pleasure and
(08:53):
not done yet.
Would be nice to leave on ahive.
I'm still available for the pod,even when I'm in London.
Let's grab a pint at the nexthome prem game.
It sounds good to us.
That is the measure of the guy.
I mean, yeah, he doesn't have tosay that to us.
We're just three blokes inhaving a middle-aged crisis and
running a podcast.
James Dunn is 25 years old, he'sgot he's a serious rugby player,
(09:14):
but he he he treated us likewith real respect, and we we
respect him for that as well.
Um yeah.
Well let's talk about theelephant in the room now then.
SPEAKER_03 (09:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Because we've done all the nicernow.
Yeah, agree.
Now, there's one issue which Ithink sticks in the in the mind
for me, and it was very early inwell, right at the beginning,
the genesis of Pat Lamb ring, isthat he wanted to bring in young
(09:44):
Bristolian players, right, whichwill eventually go on and play
for England.
Yeah, we're all agreed on that.
So the thing that really sticksin my crawl is the fact now
we've we've lost a Bristolianplayer, right?
We've lost a guy whose heart andsoul was blew in my oops, we all
agree.
Um, as much as we've got uhRabilio in the team, or even
(10:09):
Rubiolo, or the same thing.
I'm just pronouncing it likeGareth Chilcott would.
Sorry, Coochie.
SPEAKER_02 (10:16):
I thought I thought Chilcott was in the room then.
I've actually I've never seenyou and Chilcott in a root.
SPEAKER_03 (10:23):
And it's sorry.
But yeah, it's it it it's abugbearer of mine.
The fact is we've lost one ofour own, and and he is one of
our own.
I think it you know some somedepartures really do it quite
hard, and this one I think hitall three of us quite badly.
SPEAKER_05 (10:39):
I think right.
I think I think amazing, youknow, it's like we're not even
halfway through the season, butthis has hit us personally and
professionally, you know, out ofall the departures we see at the
end of the season.
Yeah, we know players come andgo, their contracts end, etc.
But to lose such a store in inBristol, um, you're absolutely
right.
You know, the the rhetoricthat's been given to fans, I
(11:02):
mean it's there's no lie, is it,that we we promote Bristoleans,
we want Bristolians to win caps,100 caps for England.
Um, and I know the England istight as a back row at the
moment, but you know, if hefeels that to to move on and
progress his game in anotherclub is the only way of doing
that, fair play to him, but I'mjust absolutely gutted that you
(11:24):
know, we're not potentially, wedon't know, that willing to
match the offer that Quinn'shave given him.
I mean, that we've decided toreduce our squad, to reduce the
amount we pay in the cap, uh,and lose such a brilliant
player.
SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Well, I think you make a really good point there,
Miles, and this is the problemsometimes with the kind of
rhetoric and the reality is thatit's a good strat line when
you're rebranding the club,building the club from nothing,
which is essentially whathappened after 2019.
And um but there is a reality,there is a market reality that
(12:03):
uh that money does talk a lot ofthe time.
And and you know, we know thatthat Dunny said to us that you
know there are he knows thereare certain certain sort of
points where locks are in locksare in demand and they have a
certain value.
And I and I think that it wedon't know clearly, we have no
idea what the numbers oranything are.
(12:25):
But if Saracens have offered, ohSaracens always God, he wouldn't
have gone there, I know that fora fact.
But if Quince had he wouldn'thave gone there for anything,
but Quinn's had offered himsomething, he I assume this is
the way negotiations work, um,bears, you know, he makes it
aware what the offer is.
And and whatever that is,clearly we haven't given him an
offer that will make him uh wantto deny the offer.
(12:47):
So so it is unfortunately, andand that's nothing wrong with
that, because that's that'smarket forces, that's
capitalism.
And he's got his you know, he'sobviously happy with whatever
he's been offered, he's got ayou know, he's got a life in it.
And and of course you layer onall the things he said because
he's looking for opportunity.
And one thing we could also sayis that it's possible to make it
a case for the fact that hisopportunity for representative
(13:10):
honours has been stymied alittle bit by being at Bristol,
not because he's there'sanything wrong with his game,
it's just that Bristol isn'tnecessarily a seems like a
fashionable place to get into ATsports like that.
No, and I think there's thatelement as well, and I mean
we've got to respect that aswell.
So it what I'm saying is thatthen there's clearly market
(13:31):
forces at at play, but and therealways is, but it just is a
slight disconnect to make allthese proclamations about
Bristolians, but then at the endof the day, just don't back it
up when market forces dictate.
SPEAKER_03 (13:42):
No, and and I mean my question then would be like,
how can Quinns value Dunny morethan we do at Bristol?
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
I mean, if I go back to the market forces argument,
I'd they probably say they don'thave a good enough second row.
We we have Pedro Rubiolo and wehave Joe Batley, and we also
have Joe Owen who's who's comingthrough.
SPEAKER_03 (14:01):
I mean I think Joe Owen probably is he's probably
the guy that Pat Lamb sees forthe future.
I think we we all know howtalented Joe Owen is.
Um and he can and he'sversatile, which Pat loves as
well.
He's probably slightly moreversatile.
So I do agree that's probablyhad some influence on the
decision.
SPEAKER_02 (14:21):
From an economic point of view, Joe Owen is is is
not on a big contract.
He's still and this is theproblem every club has is that
you develop your homegrownplayers, and by the definition
they're good value becausethey're homegrown.
But at some point, and Dunny wasrenegotiating a contract, I
imagine, from a you know what, aa position of strength.
(14:42):
He's he's got 50 appearances,you know, he's an integral part,
but there is a limit, I guess,to these things.
And and again, you know, if II'm sure if I was playing
devil's advocate, someone wouldsay, Well, we've got a budget
and we can't blow the budget.
And we've got Rubiolo, we've gotBatley, we've got Joe Owen
coming through, we've got PaddyPierce.
(15:03):
You know, they it's a constantevolution, and and that is fine,
and I hundred percent understandthat.
We're not naive, but it just isannoying when you kind of
associate the idea that there issomething slightly special about
keeping your own code.
SPEAKER_03 (15:18):
And also the evolutions now become like we've
strengthened one of ouropponents, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_05 (15:26):
I absolutely agree, and you're right, and we have
decided well not we, the clubhave decided is to contract
their their expenditure and tocontract their squad.
So is it it's not a good time,surely, to release such a
talented player to a club who'llabsolutely bring out the best in
(15:46):
him, and and you could just youcan just see it now, can't you?
Him playing at f phenomenallywell for Quinn's and and beating
Bristol on a on a day andthinking, Well, there we go.
SPEAKER_02 (15:56):
But if if he does come back when he comes back to
the gate, we know he's that sortof player, whatever he does, he
will get he will get anapplause.
There might be another narrativehere, boys.
Maybe, maybe he is a secretagent that he's been put out
because Pat's thinking we ain'tgot enough money to win the
league, we've got to winsilverware.
So what we need is a spy, andthen so he goes for Harlequins,
(16:20):
and then he is playing all theseother teams and spying on the
other teams for us to uh to giveus it.
But no, that that was just whatI was dreaming when I was
daydreaming the other day.
Well look, boys, I mean I don'tknow much else we can say.
SPEAKER_05 (16:31):
I think I think we've we've we've done that,
yes.
SPEAKER_03 (16:34):
Well, we all say, Dunny, I know you'd be listening
to this, and we all love youlots, mate, and not just the
three of us in this room, butyou know, there's another 15,000
supporters out there and bearassured, and we're all
collectively gutted to see yougo.
But we do wish you all the best,and you know, we're gonna enjoy
watching you um doing what youdo, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
And uh and we'll see you down the stoop at some
point.
Um boys, I've I've got a fewtissues if you want them.
Just or should we just have amoment?
Well, they they they look usedto being enough.
We need those.
Well no, I mean, joking aside,we we don't want to be you've
got 50 birds.
We have.
I I meant to say, boys, I've gotthe bag of the bag of tissues.
SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
What are we doing with these though?
SPEAKER_02 (17:19):
I just realised that we were waiting for this moment.
SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
There is this.
SPEAKER_02 (17:22):
This is the rustle.
Now, I feel like this is acommunity that if anybody is
feeling upset out there, like usabout Dunny, get in touch with
me and I will somehow find a wayto get you a previous hand so
that you can wipe the bowl.
We were making it for thismoment, yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
I've still got it here, boys.
SPEAKER_00 (17:43):
I've still got Dunny's away shirt, his European
shirt.
SPEAKER_05 (17:46):
Has it not been collected yet?
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
Nobody's claimed it yet.
And I have to have a lot ofpeople.
SPEAKER_02 (17:50):
Well, that's got up in value, hasn't it?
It might be have to be are-raffle, and maybe we maybe we
should do this at the end of theseason.
If I will call the guy that wonit, I haven't actually genuinely
contacted him, but he hasn'tcontacted me, so he obviously
hasn't been listening to thelast few pods.
But if he doesn't want it, thenmaybe just maybe we'll we could
talk to Daddy about this as it'sit's sort of farewell, we might
(18:13):
be able to do something where hegives it away in person and so
on.
So uh there you go.
I finally found a use to thehankies, right?
Wait, we've got to cureourselves out there across the
club.
Well, on the positive, yeah, gotwell on the positive side.
I mean, there has been somerugby.
It it obviously we all know thatit's it's this this block of
(18:33):
premiership finished that we wetalked about in the last pod.
We thought that three from fivewas a pretty good turn.
Yeah, and given the injuries andgiven the fact that the two away
games we lost were the twoprobably the two hardest, yeah,
maybe apart from Sale, but uhyeah, Saracens and Bath.
So I think we we were prettyhappy.
(18:54):
I think we also felt in someways it's quite a good time for
some of our our injury ourinjury people to get fit again,
but of course there was still acouple of games there.
We've had one Prem Cup gameagainst Bath and we've had a
game against Argentina.
So I thought we'd just quicklywhip through those two games.
The first one, Miles, was the onthe back of losing 4015, I think
(19:17):
it was in the Prairie at Baththen very quickly welcomed them,
as it were, to the gate.
Um again it was a different sortof game.
Both teams had put out a lot ofAcademy players, which is what's
expected for these Premier Cupgames.
Um but Bath put out, I wouldsay, more first team players
than we did.
(19:37):
So they had Barbary playing,they had Chris Harris, they had
Tom de Glanville, they had somepretty deep they had Ewan
Richards, who's kind of academy,but he's about as good as most
of their first team.
They had a strong side.
We had Jack Bates was playing,um, we had Graham Slaughter, we
had a few.
Oh, Grey was was on the benchfor that as well.
(19:59):
So we had a few, but we did alsoput out a lot of our youngsters,
and that that in the spirit ofthe competition.
We lost 1949.
Yeah.
It was a I mean, it was the oldclassic tough day at the office.
I mean, me and Miles started bywatching it in the the in the
Dolmen, um, which was but thetrouble is you see too much in
the Dolman and you're thinking Idon't know how to watch it.
(20:21):
And uh anyway, so we then itwasn't because there was a few
spare seats, we migrated back tothe down to the landstand, and
we're about three rows back, andit's a completely different
experience watching the gamethree rows back in the lands
down.
You don't really see what'sgoing on, you can't really see
the pattern of the space, butyou do really feel the c
collision.
SPEAKER_05 (20:41):
Yeah, you feel you feel the size of the players and
you'd be the collision, doesn'tit?
SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
It just reinforced that they were just a stronger
side, they're their first teamplayers.
I mean, Barbary sadly went offinjured and and got quite a big
round of applause from BearsMasters.
Yeah, because he is a goodplayer and he'd been rampaging
and he he'd rampaged through andhe he did something to his hand,
he was punching the ground a bitlike AJ did.
He knew he'd done something tohis head.
He's had a lot of injuries.
(21:05):
He got tackled, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (21:06):
Rightly so, he got tackled from behind and and
slammed down, and I I thinkthat's injury, he'll be out for
a yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:13):
And I and I just think it's hard to say it, but
it's true that their academy arejust better than our academy at
the moment.
And that's not a that's not asubjective thing, that's an
objective fact, because they'vethey've really developed it and
they've spent a lot of money.
And and if you talk to ouracademy manager, he'll tell you
how much how big their catchmentarea is compared to ours.
Well, we know that.
So, in some ways, although I'vealways said this about Prem Cup
(21:36):
games, haven't I, boys, that youknow, at the end of the day, it
doesn't really matter.
It's a no jeopardy game.
And it felt a bit like that.
It was it was a bit of adisappointment that we didn't
quite I mean, Boschoff played.
We like he played well, Ithought, Aidan Boschoff.
We had the bearless Bevan, thethe Welsh guy that's come in,
scum off.
He he came on, he playedalright, and we had Victor
Wursnip in the uh play in thefirst name on the team sheet.
(22:01):
I mean I've got to say, VictorWursnip is an 18, I think he's
18-year-old, Clifton College.
He looks swag, he's got aswagger about him, and he's he's
uh it was a tough.
I think he was up againstHarrison, he was up against Will
Butt, who is no mug.
Nah.
He's uh and he doesn't make thebar thirsty, but Will Butt is a
big unit.
Um that's another classicsurname as well.
I mean, it was Wersnip againstButt.
(22:22):
But but I mean it's like thesort of thing you can imagine
saying.
I mean, I think I said to mydad, he I used to my dad said
he's 87, said, Where do you go?
I said, Oh, I went to see uhwent to see uh Bristol Play Bath
in the Prem Cup.
You in the Prem Cup?
I said, Well, there was a fewyoung lads, there was Victor
Wursnip.
SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
What parsnip, you say?
I said, No, Dad, Victor Worsnip.
SPEAKER_02 (22:44):
You know, it's a sort of sort of name that old
people are gonna get wrong.
And Miles was a little bit like,oh Victor Miles was being a bit
rude, actually, during the game.
No, during the game he was.
SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
And he was going, Victor, who calls that son
Victor?
This is someone called Milessaying that anyway.
SPEAKER_05 (23:00):
Anyway, there was an excuse back in the seven seas,
mate.
SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
That's the relying of saying.
In your credit, then in theArgentinian game, which came
back in a minute, he playedagain, he played really well
because he scored his debut try.
Yeah.
Miles was eating.
I mean, he had his hat and hewas eating it.
SPEAKER_05 (23:16):
Eating it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:16):
So it's a pie.
So I tell you, Miles, is thereanything you want to add for
that Prem Cup game?
SPEAKER_05 (23:21):
Not really.
It was a bit chastening for theyoung lads, wasn't it?
You're right, they had a spark,they had a little bit of sparkle
of their Prem team that which isjust a little bit better than
ours.
But it was you so it was alearning curve for the young
lads, a lot of Academy lads in,and I thought they put up a
well, they didn't put up a fightto a certain extent, um, but I
don't think you read too muchinto it.
(23:41):
Um no team's gonna be.
SPEAKER_02 (23:43):
The only other thing was it was the return of Matt
Prothero at Full.
Of course.
And I've got to say, I I didn'treally recognise him at all.
He looked like a bit put on abit of timber.
Well, I know he just looked abit older, which clearly is a
bit older, but I just seem toremember this kind of flowing
blonde hair, like sort ofstreaking down the wit wing,
scoring amazing tries.
(24:04):
And he he he just looked older.
He just looked and he's been outin we obviously went back to
Ospreys, and I think he was outin New Zealand.
Yeah, I think he said he had abit of kind of you know, he had
a bit of three-day stubble, soI'm sure he hadn't shaved when
he played for us before, and hehad three-day stubble, and he
looked good.
He looked good, and and um, youknow, actually I think what
position did he play?
Well he played fullback for thePrem Card.
(24:25):
But then we'll come on to thethe Argentina game.
He he played he played ten forthe Argentinian game, played
well.
So yeah, it was nice to seeProthero back, and he he played
well to be fair.
Yeah, good lad.
So so yeah, I mean I don't knowwhat more to say about that.
I mean I think it was a it was ait's a shame we lost.
I mean I think we've lost we'velost two one one now and we've
got one more game againstChiefs.
(24:46):
We'll see.
That's in not next week, theweek after I we'll see what
happens.
I don't know whether we're gonnaget through to the the plu the
knockout.
It would be quite nice, becauseI guess from an academy point of
view, if you can get at leastone more game, it's another bit
of game to get the guns out.
SPEAKER_03 (24:59):
Yeah, but let's face it, that's all it is.
That the competition is justtrying to get some game time for
for the extra.
SPEAKER_02 (25:07):
I mean, we've discussed the Prem Cup, uh
whether it was value in it.
I mean, obviously it was aseason ticket game, they have to
make them season ticket gamesbecause otherwise there aren't
that many games.
And I think for us, me and Mileswalking down from you know ten
minutes from home, it's fine.
I I imagine if you live up inyou know, I don't know, Downend
or North Bristol and orChippinsod.
You may not like that.
(25:28):
Or Sarah Beaumont, if you livedown in Devon or something like
that.
You know, it's not it's notquite as a big an incentive to
come up, but but it is what itis, I think.
It's one of the but yeah, yeah.
It did lead us on nicely toFriday.
The game this Friday night,yeah.
Which was the uh which was thefifth in our series of
exhibition games games.
(25:48):
And well, I mean it was it was apretty miserable night, it was
raining.
The team that we put out waspretty similar to the Prem Cup
team.
We had Jack Bates again wasplaying outside centre as a bit
of quality.
Yeah, we've got it.
Graham Slaw was playing Joe Owencaptained Joe Owen captains, um
Victor Wursnip was back atcentre.
(26:09):
Um we had Prothero went uh 10.
Um changes on the outside.
We had a few changes on thebents, and we had young Evan
Morris, I think, on the wing,one wing.
We had Aidan Boschoff on theother wing.
We had a couple of under 18characters.
Under 18 academies, yeah.
Josh Catwin, and then we had wehad some some real youth on the
on the on the bench.
(26:30):
And and yeah, they p they put upa pretty good show against a
pretty physical lookingArgentinian side, who I
understand would mainly pickfrom the Argentinian League.
There's a fledgling league, sothey're picked to get them
experienced, but they they lookpretty solid.
Pretty experience to me.
Unlike I think our boys played alot better against them than
(26:51):
they did against Bath in thePremier Cup game.
But maybe the Bath team werebetter than Argentinians, I
don't know.
Um, and you know, they they theywe scored first actually,
rolling ball.
Thomas William was playinghooker two and actually two
games.
He looks like a good academyprospect coming up at Hooker,
scored, but we scored first, andthen after that didn't really
score again.
SPEAKER_05 (27:11):
Right, there was an encouraging start, but you know,
you know, you look at the sizeof the some of those
Argentinians, they've beeneating a lot of beef.
The f the the whole pack lookedabsolutely huge.
Um, and you're right, thatUnion, you think outside of the
first team 23, they are the next23, so they are, you know, they
are no mugs, they're gonna putin a tough game.
(27:31):
You said you know, they play ina league in in Argentina, which
is competitive, so we shouldhave expected probably a very
good squad.
Um, and we decided as a club toput out Academy and some under
18s, um, and at the end of theday they got schooled, but
that's no disrespect to theeffort they put in, which was
(27:53):
110%.
SPEAKER_03 (27:55):
But I mean, it does lead us on to discuss it, and
Lee, you want to say something.
I just want to say, can we stopcalling them exhibition games
now?
Well, I think I'm gonna use asnooker analogy to this, right?
Yeah, yeah.
When we want exhibition games,we want to see Jimmy White, we
want to see O'Sullivan, we wantto see Alex Higgins doing Alex.
(28:16):
Yes, John Virgo doing trickshops.
We just want a game of rugby,almost like a barbarian style.
Let's just go for it rugbygames.
Okay.
We don't want to see TerryGriffiths do we?
SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
No.
No.
I mean, we st by the look of acouple of those RGs, we did see
Bill Wurbenek.
He was down at three.
And actually, their fly offwasn't too often.
But no, but Lee makes a you makea really good point.
Okay, the weather that option.
SPEAKER_05 (28:43):
The weather was poor, the crowd was really,
really poor on Friday night.
So I guess, you know, ultimatelythe question we're saying is
there's three podcasters and and10,000 season ticket holders.
Is this exhibition during thesituations now is it dead in the
water?
What do we think?
SPEAKER_02 (29:02):
I mean, this is I wrote a post article for this,
and and I was it got me thinkingbecause I did my research, and
basically we've done fiveexhibition games, and these were
sold brilliantly, right?
You know, quite soon after wecame out of lockdown.
And the idea is that there'sonly ten teams in the league.
We we have to offer more toseason ticket holders, and we
(29:23):
also want to grow the game.
We get the principle, we want toget it.
The principle's brilliant, andit started brilliantly with
South Africa.
That was class.
And you know what?
I look back at their lineup,they had Thomas Detoyd playing
for them, they had the guy thatI can't pronounce his name, but
their new Wonder Fly Half wasplaying on that night.
They had Marco Van Stadenplaying that night, they had
some serious players who'd gonethrough.
Now, I looked to our team, andwe had a fully loaded first
(29:47):
team.
It it was it wasn't all a firstteam, but every single player
was Joycey and Bats wereplaying.
Well, I remember when Bats wescored a try, and Bats just like
Lahina was playing, Jan Thomaswas playing, but it the But I
mean the um the Cash Point wasplaying.
Brian Byrne was playing.
Laheef was playing.
Um we had Harding was playing.
(30:08):
Of course, this was early in hisdevelopment, but he still he was
still a clearly a very SteveLouitou was playing, he Jake
Heenum was playing, we had um uhWill Porter was Shady was
playing.
SPEAKER_03 (30:20):
We we can say though, I mean obviously we
couldn't that we couldn't put ateam out like that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:24):
No, no, no, but this is my point.
I'm not I'm not criticized youknow it was conceived as an
exhibition and it was anexhibition.
Now for many reasons since.
So since then, we then playedthe Crusaders and they they came
and did the hacker.
I don't know if you remember, itwas like all in the midst.
We couldn't see it.
But that was iconic, yeah, andthey beat us quite easily.
(30:45):
We then had the Australia onelast year that wasn't season
ticket, but it was a ten or two.
It was a ten or draw.
Ironically, we had a reasonableside out, but we didn't have a
you know, we were hamstrung alittle bit by international
call-ups.
And that was a ten-o-draw, so itwasn't really an exhibition, it
was kind of like a cup, it wasjust a kind of league game, and
then we then had the Queens andReds, and we know the club Tom
(31:06):
Tainton has been on this pod andsaid that that was a f that went
wrong, that was all wrong.
But then, you know, the problemwas we had the the Argentinian
one, and it was a kind of let'sreboot this exhibition idea.
Um, and it was a good idea, andit did sound like a good idea
because we have the connectionswith the Pumas, with all of our
but you know, me and you arethere, Miles, and and and it's a
(31:28):
fact to say there weren't verymany people there, there were
many empty seats.
That means that season ticketholders didn't go and not many
people bought tickets.
SPEAKER_03 (31:37):
Now, clearly we know why that is.
Yeah, I mean I don't play.
I can tell you my point of viewfor that, is because it's it
wasn't interesting.
I didn't go to that game, I hadno interest whatsoever in going
to that game.
And that was because it it itwasn't it wasn't any of any
interest to me whatsoever.
And I think that I can speakfrom the people who didn't go.
(31:59):
Yeah, I mean f full respect, andwe do appreciate the club are
trying to do they're trying toshift things and they're trying
to to generate interest.
But for me, uh that's not theway for them to do it.
Tom Tengott is great lookingoutside the box.
Let's let's get a corridor teamdown to us.
SPEAKER_02 (32:18):
Yeah, I think and I think I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_03 (32:20):
Let's do a double error, let's go to I think more
points.
SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
Hey, let's go to the arms park.
Yeah.
Let's do a double error.
Let's go to let's go to theprincipality stadium.
Oh wait, we've already But no, Imean what we're trying to say
here is that it's like it was agreat idea that maybe has now
run its course.
I think so.
But I know what they still needto do something for season
ticket holders.
Now, I think it's a goodopportunity to reboot that and
(32:44):
and look at something different,and that's a great idea, like
look at some sort of you know,and you know, the other a Bears
kind of or Welsh team orwhatever, and and call it an
exhibition and then play it likean exhibition.
But the other thing that annoyedme about um uh Friday was that
we had Sarah Cox refing, andSarah Cox is a premiership ref,
but it was she was refing likeshe was being marked.
(33:05):
Yeah.
So she was br she brandished acouple of yellows, at least.
And you're like, we don't wantto see and also the game.
She shouldn't even be taking anycards out on the and also and
then it goes back to your reallygood point a few um pods ago
about about thinking about thepersonality of the ref for the
game.
So we were saying that Tempo wasa little bit, you know, he he
(33:28):
was a bit tense about the Bathgame, and he a Luke Pierce would
have managed that game muchbetter.
Now, it's no disrespect to SarahCox, but maybe a kind of some uh
somebody with all you knowwho've been a bit more
experienced, he's quite good attalking lads, would have said,
look, lads, let's stop a bit ofthis side entry now.
Come on, let's just do thisproperly.
I mean the other thing thatslightly disappointed me was
that we we box kicked it morethan I've ever seen as box kick
(33:50):
it for about a year.
Now, they may be playing to theconditions, but it's like that's
not really getting me thatexcited.
SPEAKER_03 (33:56):
So you did get a bit of Terry Griffiths.
Yeah, yeah, we didn't know.
SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
We got a bit of Joe Davis, you remember Joe Davis
all in black and white.
It suddenly went black andwhite.
But the point I'm trying to makeis that we we really understand,
we it it I actually enjoyed thenight, but but and we and then
in hindsight, a lot of peoplesay, Oh, it's great to see the
hit out for the boys.
And it was great to see it, butthat wasn't the reason why that
expensive game was put on.
(34:20):
And we had a context isdifficult, lots of injuries.
We've you know, we hadridiculous people getting called
up for international.
Toby Fricker got called up forthe USA and he's on loan.
I know, yeah.
And we had like the you know,Luca went out with the
Georgians, and then Moroney isright.
And then Moroney gets picked forthe Argentina.
Ironically, because he's playedtwo good games for us and played
well for the barbarians, andit's all our own fault.
(34:41):
So I guess what I'm trying tosay is, and I tried to get this
across in the post, it wasn't acriticism, but I'm just saying
it feels like when I what youknow it's run its course, but we
we we're not saying don't dosomething.
Let's have another let's have anopen and honest discussion about
other opportunities.
SPEAKER_03 (34:56):
No, and you you you know, you kindly let us read the
post before you sent it out andasked for opinions.
And I I thought it was reallywell balanced.
I thought you put all the keypoints in that you needed to.
And I think Tom Tainton, if hereads that tomorrow in the post,
I think he he probably hold hishands up and say, like, that was
yeah, we we well he's alreadyagreed that there's mistakes
(35:17):
have been made.
Um and I think that it was itwas really well written, mate.
You're not criticising the clubat all.
What we were saying is likemaybe a different idea in our
future.
SPEAKER_05 (35:26):
Okay, well yeah, the the innovation that I think that
Tom's bringing is fantastic, andhe and he said that to us on the
Pardon fans, and he's great.
He's a he's a young CEO and welove it.
Um but I think you're right,he's inherited potentially this
fixture, hasn't he?
The the the exhibition game.
And I think you're right, it'srun its course in its current
format.
SPEAKER_03 (35:46):
Well, I think we all agree that's dining out on the
South African night.
No, no, it ain't gonna happen.
SPEAKER_05 (35:52):
So something needs to change, you know.
You a forum, it's like maybe getfans engaged.
What would you like to see?
SPEAKER_06 (35:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (35:58):
If you if you had it maybe outsized of the season
ticket, and and thenpay-per-view, but you've got to
put something in thatpay-per-view that fans will come
and see.
Let's put it out to ourlisteners then, Miles.
SPEAKER_03 (36:09):
What do our listeners think?
Because it would be uh we've gotsome brilliant, really
intelligent listeners, and itwould be great to see what their
thoughts are.
Because we need a game.
SPEAKER_02 (36:18):
Yeah, it's still gonna be only nine home games
and two Prem Cup home games andtwo European ones.
There has to be something.
SPEAKER_05 (36:25):
But so But you know, for we've met some players up
this afternoon at ShahlstreetPark, uh, some types of players,
some listeners, etc.
Uh I think they get we are acompetitive price season ticket.
We all know that, and we reallyappreciate it.
But potentially don't fill thegaps with games like this that
don't mean anything, the resultis poor, and some innovation,
(36:47):
you know, uh you're right.
Let let's get let's get someideas together and see what we
can fill.
Other clubs have done nothing atall, have they?
Yeah, yeah.
And they've charged the sameprice for their season ticket.
Yeah.
And we're really grateful thatwe've we've we've kept the
season ticket hold at the pricethe same, but something needs to
change on this innovation.
SPEAKER_02 (37:05):
And especially if you know you're running a small
squad like we knew, yeah, andyou know there's autumn
internationals, and it seems tobe more nations seem to be
playing all at the same time.
It was always going to be astruggle together.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (37:16):
Well, can I can I just make a kind of side point?
Yeah, I did read that there'sthere was a few supporters and
really not very happy about PatLange using Fitzardin and Yancey
for the bar bars as well.
And Maroni, yeah.
But obviously, you know it's ait's a tough one, isn't it?
(37:37):
Because I think if you'relooking at with your with your
hoops on and they're thinking wejust can't have any of these
guys injured.
Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (37:47):
Yeah, and I I mean I think that was one of those ones
that it all turned out well inthe end.
None of them got injured.
And I don't think, and ofcourse, on the back of that,
Fitzy's now got an Englandacquaintan, but I don't think
anybody would begrudge.
Oh, you've segmented nicely,have you?
Yeah, which is so I think we'vedone the we've done the the
exhibition game.
Hang on.
Oh whoops.
(38:08):
Oh anyway, moving on.
So yeah, moving on quicklythrough the agenda.
Um yeah, I thus we wanted to sayhow I mean how good that is that
Fitzy's finally got somerecognition.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think in some ways we needto give Pat a bit of credit that
Pat backed him.
SPEAKER_01 (38:24):
He did.
SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
And you know, it has perhaps made a an impact on the
selectors, whoever they are, andthey they realise that Fitz is a
and I think I think my postarticle uh from the uh from the
one in the the Exeter game whereI said that you know he's he's
the he's like he's everythingyou want for a club player, he's
a full pro and stuff like that.
So um fair play to Fitz, and byall accounts, he was off he was
(38:47):
on the bench and came on.
I've no idea how well he played.
I know Bat scored a try, whichis good.
And and and just it's what if henever gets anything again,
that's recognition of the factwe're talking about a guy who's
got a hundred appearances for apremier for a top six, let's
call us a top six premiership,top four in the last seasons,
premiership club, one of thebest, you know, good league, and
(39:11):
one of the youngest captains.
One of the youngest captains whowas playing for Durham Fourths,
who hasn't come from ascholarship through a pathway,
was picked up because there wassomething about him, and clearly
has proven to Pat.
We know what Pat Pat is uh hisown man, he saw something in
him, he gave him the captaincyover Big Steve, and as you know,
and Big Steve would probablygive his blessing.
(39:33):
So, you know, you don't give a24-year-old guy the captaincy of
a premiership club at the age of24 if there's nothing about him.
So brilliant.
SPEAKER_03 (39:42):
Um fair play to fit, and and you know, I hope it's
the start of it's only the startof things.
And well done bats as well forscore and a trial.
SPEAKER_02 (39:50):
I mean the bats thing was was brilliant because
uh he had to leave the trainingin the week because we need to
congratulate him on his secondyear.
Yeah, yeah.
But that's also segues back tothe Argentina game, is that Joe
Owen was then called in to Bathbecause they were training at
Bath University to train becauseI guess they needed to fill a
bat-sized hole, although JoeOwen's a bit taller, just to
(40:12):
kind of have the numbers, andthen basically didn't train with
the team that played againstArgentina and came back.
And then that's another thing,you know.
We we had a team that was wasyou know never played together
before as well, and that doesn'thelp the spectacle, even though
they played well.
So big Joe Owen, well played.
And actually, Joe Owen wasinterviewed afterwards on the
socials and spoke very well.
He's uh he seems like a reallyintelligent, articulate sort of
(40:34):
guy, and of course, he did holdthe flag up at Gloucester with
James Dunn.
SPEAKER_01 (40:38):
So he he's a hero as well.
SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
He's now been sucked into the Bears beyond the game.
He's sucked into our next podvicinto our universe, and he cannot
get away from it.
In fact, the next thing we'llfind is Joe Owen uh is now
leaving the club at the end ofthe season because Saraces have
offered him like loads of money,and he says, I'm I've got it to
go, but I just don't want toever hold that flag again.
(41:01):
Um anyway, so anything else tosay on the international?
I think we've moved on.
No, I think we've I suppose theother thing I would say
negatively speaking, and I don'tknow whether he's injured or
not, but it seemed verydisappointed that Ogre, Gabriel
Ogre, didn't appear.
Like having played for England Aand England in the winter,
probably been the mostconsistent premiership hooker in
the first five games in terms ofaccuracy, tries.
(41:23):
I just don't know what's gone onthere.
No idea.
SPEAKER_05 (41:26):
Anyone does know let's know.
I mean, we're supremelydisappointed that it's always
getting never getting called upinto the the full A England
training squad, isn't it?
Ahead of the likes of you knowTheo Daniel.
Well he got injured, didn't he,as well.
SPEAKER_02 (41:38):
But yeah, Blameyre, they got Jamie Blame in there.
SPEAKER_05 (41:41):
Right, and then the consistency that he delivers
he's much better.
SPEAKER_02 (41:44):
Don't understand that.
But anyway, if anyone knowsthat.
Anyway, moving on.
One more game to quickly talkabout was the we went down
Shaftsbury Park, didn't we,Miles afternoon?
A bit of a whim, we thought we'dgo down.
Saracens are in town.
Marley Packer, plumber from Idid drive past and and I did
waves to you.
SPEAKER_03 (41:59):
Thanks very much.
SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
Yeah, all Marley Packer, plumber from Yeovil.
It's always good to go and seeSaracens.
SPEAKER_03 (42:04):
Um, she didn't.
No, she stopped.
SPEAKER_02 (42:08):
Well, early on there was a massive leak, and our
friend Ella Loveybond wentstraight through their defence.
Scored early.
First ten minutes, I thoughtwe're gonna hammer Saracens.
They were they weren't at theraces at all.
Turn it around.
As is the way, their sort ofpower play came back in, they
scored two quick tries forhalf-time, came back out.
And although, to be fair, thethe the girls got back in it,
(42:30):
they won a few scrum penalties,they just didn't make their I
mean sadly they weren't theyweren't really killing the
clinic after.
SPEAKER_05 (42:37):
The the set piece in the line out didn't they hit the
jump uh And that might be asmuch Saracen's spoiler as it was
you know we equally had we hadum our Red Roses in Abby Ward
and Sarah Vern.
They had two or three, didn'tthey?
Just breach uh Zoe Harrison whokicked off the team.
(42:59):
So they you know the and Marvel.
Yeah so they were a good size.
Showed the class, and ultimatelyI think they they overpowered
and looking like they could betop two finishes.
They're gonna be fine, yes.
I think so.
SPEAKER_02 (43:12):
We just didn't get it out to our our our wingers,
did we?
Billy Millie Wiz and RenikaBonner, when they did get the
ball, they would they they hadno space.
They tried their best.
But yeah, good afternoon.
We did have a good afternoon.
We saw Crutti, we saw MarcusWatts, we saw Stokes, we saw
Ness and the Tommy.
Yeah, Tom James and Dave Ward.
Yeah, and then Dave we saw DaveWard, but Dave Ward was looking
(43:34):
very hassled because he waslooking at trying to control his
daughter on his own.
And he he wasn't watching, hejust went inside the clubhouse
and he was trying to like keepher busy.
We went over and said a quithello to him, and he was like,
Oh, and we said, Oh, it's David,it's the Pud Boys.
He's like, Oh yeah, good seeyou, lads.
He said, Yeah, we won't we won'tkeep you see, you got your hands
full.
And I thought this is classic,you know, you've got like a work
(43:54):
a red roses winner on the pitch,and he's he can't even watch the
game because he's trying to keephis little daughter busy and he
was struggling, he was sweatinglike that, and he was like, and
then we've all been there.
That's what we almost I almostsaid it we've been there, but I
thought that sounds sopatronizing.
But anyway, it was nice to seeDave again.
Yeah, now I mean Anne Tillerhaving an up and down season, he
is a lovely fella.
(44:14):
Mostly down, and uh we'll seewhat happens with that.
So, boys, I think we're we'rewhipping through.
I don't want to spend too muchtime because it was supposed to
be a quick one.
I've got two more things to do.
Yeah, go for it.
Um we had a few tidy up a fewcomments from listeners that
we've had over the last coupleof weeks.
I don't want to read out.
But then quickly, EuroShirt wasreleased.
Quick, very, very quickly,thoughtsley.
SPEAKER_03 (44:35):
Um I don't know if I can pronounce the thoughts on
there.
Uh I'm not a big fan.
Not a big fan.
That'll do.
SPEAKER_05 (44:42):
Uh Miles?
Not for me.
I'm not parting with any money.
Simple as that.
No, I mean it's not uniqueenough and progressive enough to
me to worry about.
SPEAKER_02 (44:50):
I quite like it, to be honest.
I can see it as a sort offashionable attire, but my only
problem is that given our recordin Europe in the last very long,
it it's it's 70 quid seemsreally expensive because you're
only gonna like potentially wearit four times.
So are you gonna wear it toScarlet's?
Oh, well I might well I'm notgonna buy it, I'm gonna wear my
old one.
(45:11):
And the other thing is I stilllike old Euros, yeah.
So I've got to beuring it.
My point is that I'd rather wearI've got the classic suspension
bridge one for a few years.
So that's what I'm gonna wear toScarlet.
And me.
SPEAKER_05 (45:22):
And we've got by the way, if anyone's listening, if
you ever die, put that in yourwheel together.
SPEAKER_02 (45:26):
Yeah.
So so I think it's uh it's itit's fair enough.
People, there'll be people whowant to buy it and they have to
do it.
And you know, I I quite like thedesign.
It's a bit like a magic eye sortof painting, wasn't it?
You look at it hard enough, yousee a picture of uh Pat Lamb
comes out.
Yeah, spinning a first trophy,yeah.
Um couple of other things, thento finish off, had a couple of
emails, had one from DaveRogers, David Rogers, and it
(45:50):
links back to his brother.
It might be, it could be Kenny'sbrother.
I know, yeah, it could beKenny's Kenny's uh we could do
this all night, it could beKenny's nephew.
Um but he um and he he said, andthis links back to the Prem uh
the Europe, the Argentiniangame.
He said, Not sure if you'redoing a pod this weekend.
We are.
I missed the match yesterday.
Brackets would have gone if notfor local fireworks.
(46:11):
It's like even that, he thoughtabout it.
SPEAKER_03 (46:14):
It's even a local.
I reckon he's he was onlytalking about sparklers and he's
got a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
No offence, no offence, the club, but as it
that is an ongoing gag that wewill continue to use.
Um, but it sounds like it was agood experience for the young
guns, correct?
Nice to hear Harris, Oli Harrisfrom Yat and RFC, scoring on his
debut, which was Miles Wendy'sbest friends.
Why you know about best friends'nephew?
It's almost family miles almost,isn't it?
(46:41):
I'm still interested in theseinternational friendlies.
Hammers have a David is positiveand think there is value in them
for the club, especially if itends up as New Zealand one year.
And that is the one thing wedidn't say.
We mentioned.
We always said the All Blackswould be the one.
It would be.
But we missed out on their Ateam, didn't we?
So if Mark maybe I mean I thinkTom manages to get it, I don't
(47:01):
care whether they put BrizzlyBear out, we will go and watch
the All Blacks.
SPEAKER_03 (47:05):
Well of course we would.
But if I'm going to be totallyhonest, I don't ever see it.
That's a long, long wait at themoment to be as free for a
special occasion.
SPEAKER_02 (47:15):
Um he did say one thing for you guys to ponder and
maybe pressure for next time.
I'm not sure we we have got thismuch pressure.
I'd like to see the club use thefriendly matches as an
opportunity to use the oldclassic letters instead of
numbers would be a greatgesture, but a nice one.
Probably unlike it.
Um but on letters, yeah.
I know we had a di discussionabout the the uh the letters
(47:35):
coming off shirts.
Falling off shirts.
Yeah, yeah, I remember pre-game.
Pre-game.
We had John Mags emailed us andsaid, Great podcasters ever,
lads.
Thanks.
Just to add to your goat aboutthe misspelling or the letters
falling off, David Flatman saidto me a while back that the kit
man at at Bath once purposelyleft the L of his name on the
(47:57):
back of his shirt.
SPEAKER_03 (47:58):
I love it.
So that was good.
Oh, your kit man.
Did you say Mags?
SPEAKER_02 (48:03):
John Mags.
I wonder if he's any relation toNeil.
Could be.
There's a lot of Mags in Bristolthere.
Mags is a Bristol surname, isn'the?
Um what else do we add?
Oh, another good one.
You remember me and you gotharangued in the beer queue by
Andrew Pearson who hadn't owedhis shirt.
Oh, the shirt.
And we've had an ongoingcommunication with Andrew at aka
giant.
(48:24):
Well, we had an email last weeksaying, just a quick one, lads,
finally picked up my hair.
SPEAKER_00 (48:30):
That's the positivity we need.
SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
The letters have come up.
unknown (48:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (48:36):
And it's the wrong size, and apparently it's
another another six weeks forthe right size to come in.
But he said, picked up, we'vefinally picked up my away shirt
just in time for theinternational break.
We'll save it for Northampton athome in late December.
So we're pleased for andactually to be fair to me,
please for him, but what?
Yeah, and then we had one morequite topical one, which was
(48:58):
from Dom Somerville.
And Dom Somerville, you and me,sat next to him and his wife at
the uh big day out at Cardiff.
Hi guys, love in the pod.
Jimmy's brother.
It could be Jimmy's brother.
Sorry, I've got to stop doingthis.
It could be, and he said, higuys, love in the pod.
I can't sing that.
Hi.
SPEAKER_03 (49:12):
No, I was saying, could you actually do it in
Jimmy Somerville's voice?
Love in the podcast!
SPEAKER_02 (49:18):
Your recent episode, this is a serious one though,
following the tough loss toBath, or he called it the
Unwashed, was very therapeuticas I work with a number of their
fans.
I heard this story from aGloucester fan who explained how
the Unwashed are able toassemble such an amazing squad
of stars and remain within thesalary contract.
SPEAKER_05 (49:33):
A Gloucester fan.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (49:34):
Oh, okay.
The story was this (49:35):
you join on a three-year contract in the
years one and two, you're paidbasic pay.
In year three, your salaryincreases three times the year
one marquee rate.
So fat Derek, aka Finn Russell,but I think that's a bit harsh
because I quite like FinnRussell, and he was very polite
when I asked him to do the year.
You can like a thing.
Would earn three million plus inhis last year.
So this whole thing about theydon't share the contract over
(49:56):
the three things, and theysomehow balance it out.
Um, then allows you to havethree marquee players at any one
time.
So one year you can have some ofthe three people on three
million.
Yeah.
I've done some digging and thereis very little out there.
So he's heard this from a matewho knows a mate who's a
Gloucester fan, who's who's big,big Andy, who who has got a
(50:17):
long, a lifelong deta hate ofanybody from bath.
SPEAKER_03 (50:20):
But apart from Gloucester fan, I it kind of
feels like we're trying to beset up on this.
Oh, I feel like when we say nocomment, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:26):
But he does say, Do you have any sources you might
be able to confirm?
SPEAKER_01 (50:29):
No comment.
No comment.
And it's this legal of bendingthe reel, rules, no comment.
SPEAKER_03 (50:34):
But but let's but he might not be far from the farm.
We've got to corroborate.
I know.
SPEAKER_02 (50:40):
Anyway, up the bears, he says.
Um, and then finally, just oneof the we weren't, you know, we
were kind of umming and aringabout a pod, and then well,
should we do it?
We got nothing to talk about,although we managed to talk
about stuff for quite a while.
But we were coming out of theArgentina game, and some guy
came up, said, said, Oh, you'rethe pod guys, aren't you?
Bears beyond the gate, someonewe've never met before and said,
(51:02):
Oh, I love we love listeningbecause we just love just you
chatting about rugby, about whatwe think about, and it's really
fun, and we we don't mind doingthat it's not polished or
whatever.
And they had old Red Cliffeansum rugby shirts on, and it was
so I said I I said I'd give thema shout out.
So it was Gary, and it waslittle Harry, and it was Big
(51:24):
Mike.
Big Mike.
So Gary, Harry, and Mike, weappreciate you commenting.
And and in a way, you were theones that decided to uh to to
stimulate us to do this pod,amongst other things as well.
So cheers for that, and then andthen loads of other people.
SPEAKER_03 (51:39):
Yeah, I mean that's why we do it, isn't it?
And then finally On that note,were you gonna say, sorry, just
jumping back to what we we'retalking about scorers away on
December the 6th.
SPEAKER_06 (51:47):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (51:47):
We would love because we all three of us are
gonna be there.
Yeah, we go, yeah.
We cannot wait for that.
Yeah.
And if there's any theirsupporters there, come and join
us and find us.
SPEAKER_02 (51:58):
Let's have a beer or two.
Well, we're going early becausewe're driving up because we've
got a travel lodge, haven't we,Mars?
We have, yeah.
And therefore we were we maywell start thinking about this
close to the time of of oftrying to do a bit of research,
finding out somewhere, and wemay just say, right, we're gonna
be here, because we could go upa bit earlier, we're gonna be
here at this place at a certaintime, come in, and we can have a
(52:19):
sort of bears thing going on.
Right, final thing.
Robin Handley, uh Hambley won'tlike this, but there is another
I just spelled his name right.
Oh, there is this going poet,and it's not Debs from K-Town.
There is another poet jostlingfor laureateship.
And this is JP Holden, who had abit of a pop in the last did an
(52:42):
acrostic, but based on listeningto stuff that we've said in the
pods, has come up with threerhyming poems.
The first one is the first onehe says.
It was after the bath game whenwe were talking about Spencer
being a you know JP Holden.
(53:04):
At JP Holden.
Here we go.
There was there is a scrum halfcalled Ben Spencer, who is gobby
and known for his temper.
He knows him well.
On his shirt, there's a nine, sohe's expected to whine for sure.
He's the Prem's worst offender.
I feel this guy knows a lotabout rugby.
I'm assuming it's a bloke, couldbe wrong.
(53:26):
Then he was on the one about acracking start.
It could be Yeah, he is acracking start.
But then he then picked up onyour you said you didn't like
Miles Reed.
SPEAKER_03 (53:36):
And I do not remember that.
I yeah, of course I remember.
I still don't like Miles Reed.
SPEAKER_02 (53:42):
Because he's so good.
Yeah, he said Bath has a Bathhas a Bath have a back row
called Miles Reed, who had hair,then it began to recede.
Now the one time ginge is anoise round the fringe and lives
in Lee's head rent-free.
It doesn't quite rhyme, but it'spretty good.
And then finally, I'd say heknows Miles, then he's got he's
(54:03):
got one for Miles here.
And this was the Or Miles.
Yeah, it's one Olympic.
Miles showed a lot of man lovefor Moroni.
Oh yeah.
So this is this is this is foryou.
Go on in.
Said Matty Moroni's a new boyfor Briz.
His impact is hard not to miss.
And so lo and behold, if hisfeet don't get cold, Miles will
(54:25):
blow him a kiss.
SPEAKER_06 (54:26):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03 (54:28):
Whoa, are you wait?
That's gotta be Hammy Hambley indisguise.
Could be Hammy Hambley indisguise.
SPEAKER_02 (54:36):
It could be a third Hambley we've never heard of
that's coming in from nowhere,but it could be a mizzen.
Seriously, we could have a alaureate.
SPEAKER_03 (54:43):
If that is JP Holden, then that is class,
right?
And he's even got a poet's name.
SPEAKER_02 (54:50):
Yeah, so we appreciate that.
And it also shows that heactually, well, Leslie ran it
through AI and said, right,listen to the transcript and
come up with a couple of poemsthat are quite good, then, but
we'll assume he is a keenlistener to the pod.
So if you want to make up somesort of rhyming poem for this
pod, then we'll look out for it.
SPEAKER_03 (55:09):
The Hamley brothers are going to be on that now.
Some of these are already on it.
SPEAKER_02 (55:14):
Okay.
Right, boys, we need to wrap itup.
It was supposed to be a shortone.
It is about nearly an hour.
Oh well, I'm sure people repeat.
I'm sure people can fast forwardthrough it if they want to.
So anyway, um, we probably won'tdo a pod next weekend.
SPEAKER_05 (55:29):
Probably until Northampton.
SPEAKER_02 (55:30):
We'll do something to preview the Northampton game,
may get a couple of things inthere.
So in the meantime, everyone,have a good week.
Stay safe, and
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.