March 11, 2026 • 29 mins
Progress with our neurodivergent kids can feel invisible. When you’re in the daily grind of meltdowns, school stress, and constant problem-solving, it’s so easy to believe nothing is working. I’ve been there. That heavy feeling of “we’re trying everything, and it’s still so hard.”
In this episode, I’m joined by ADHD parenting coach and occupational therapist Caroline Fitsimones to break down what it really looks like to track and maintain progress in a way that’s realistic, supportive, and actually doable for families like ours.
We talk about why tracking progress isn’t about perfection or pressure. It’s about clarity. It’s about moving from “everything is falling apart” to noticing patterns, pivoting with intention, and celebrating the baby steps that truly build growth.
Caroline shares a powerful six-step framework that starts with vision casting and building family culture, then moves into strengthening ourselves as parents, installing supportive systems, targeting micro-steps for our kids’ skills, and finally reflecting and adjusting with grace.
We dig into practical examples, from simplifying mornings to using visual schedules, to doing cost-benefit analyses on what actually moves the needle for your child’s regulation and success. Most importantly, we talk about modeling flexibility, self-regulation, and reflection for our kids in real time.
If you’ve been stuck in survival mode or wondering how to create sustainable growth, this conversation will help you feel more empowered and less alone. Tune in and let’s rethink progress together.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/349
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com. It's not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
In this episode, I’m joined by ADHD parenting coach and occupational therapist Caroline Fitsimones to break down what it really looks like to track and maintain progress in a way that’s realistic, supportive, and actually doable for families like ours.
We talk about why tracking progress isn’t about perfection or pressure. It’s about clarity. It’s about moving from “everything is falling apart” to noticing patterns, pivoting with intention, and celebrating the baby steps that truly build growth.
Caroline shares a powerful six-step framework that starts with vision casting and building family culture, then moves into strengthening ourselves as parents, installing supportive systems, targeting micro-steps for our kids’ skills, and finally reflecting and adjusting with grace.
We dig into practical examples, from simplifying mornings to using visual schedules, to doing cost-benefit analyses on what actually moves the needle for your child’s regulation and success. Most importantly, we talk about modeling flexibility, self-regulation, and reflection for our kids in real time.
If you’ve been stuck in survival mode or wondering how to create sustainable growth, this conversation will help you feel more empowered and less alone. Tune in and let’s rethink progress together.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com — because it’s not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
Show notes and more resources at parentingadhdandautism.com/349
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beautifully-complex--6137613/support.
You can find additional resources at parentingadhdandautism.com. It's not just about the struggles, it’s about progress, one step at a time.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Having the backup plan so that you can give yourselves
grace knowing that you're human. But also life happens, and
so there's things that are out of our control, but
still setting the intention to choose what we do have
control over, which is our mindset, how we show up,
and how we choose to also experience and perceive our child.
We know that at any moment, we're all doing the
(00:22):
best we can with the skills we have, including our
child and ourselves.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
(00:48):
if you want more support, join our free community at
hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back, everyone, I
am so I'm glad that you are here and you
are listening. Today. I have with me Caroline Fitzsimmons, who
is an ADHD parenting coach and an occupational therapist, and
(01:11):
we're going to talk about tracking and maintaining progress, which
I think sounds overwhelming and difficult, and Caroline is going
to help us to really break that down, and we're
going to talk about why we need to do it,
why we would want to do it, and then what
it looks like stop by step, how do we do this,
and how do we then take that information to make improvements.
(01:35):
So Caroline, will you start by letting everybody know who
you are and what you do?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yes, thank you Penny for having me, of course. Yes,
I'm Carolin Fitzimmons and I have been a pediatric occupacial
therapist for twenty one years now, and I will say
my biggest learning experience and application has been after having kids,
one of them being new or divergent. And this is
where the rubber hit the road and I really had
(02:01):
to take inventory of what I thought I knew and
what I really didn't know. And so it's been such
a wonderful learning experience filled with heartache in humor, and
just after having been through that lived experience myself, I
just have a whole new compassion and empathy for parents
that I work with. And so yes, a lot of
(02:22):
what I do now is much more realistic, the expectations
are more realistic. For families in general, and there's just
so many hardships that were navigating anyway, and so it's
something that's much more doable for parents and more supportive
in just my approach in general.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, and I hear parents so often say nothing is working.
And I remember the days that I would tell everyone
in my kid's orbit, nothing is working, and typically they
would say, well, be specific, tell me what it is, specifically,
tell me when it happens. And I learned that I
had to take notes, I had to really in on
(03:01):
specifics of what was working, what wasn't working, so that
it would be helpful. And I, you know, over time,
learned that our brains are wired to focus on the
negative to keep us safe. And so that was why
by the time I got to a monthly appointment, I
felt like everything was crumbling. So I think intention here
(03:21):
is super important. Why else do we want to look
at tracking and maintaining progress such.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
A good example, And I'll I'll back up a little
bit as far as in the clinical setting prots, we
have to set goals and otherwise we're not working towards
anything measurable and we're sort of just kind of shooting
in the dark. So setting goals gives us a vision
to work towards, and then in between, Let's say I
(03:51):
evaluate a child, set goals, and then twelve months later
I reevaluate him. Now I have a baseline. And so
setting goals is not to set us up for failure,
but it is to give us something to track. And
so when we're off base, we get to course correct
and pivot instead of pounding your head against the wall
and saying, why is it working? But every hiccup, every
(04:12):
quote unquote failure is data, just like you were saying,
you get to track it and pivot and notice, Okay,
we have found all the ways that don't work. Now
we get to try different ways that do work. And
oftentimes that means we need to think out of the
box and do something very differently in a way we
probably would have tried before.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah. I think the whole game for parenting neurodivergent kids
is about pivoting. It's about analyzing, being aware, and then
pivoting because we have to do it differently for our
kids so many things, but also because things change from
day to day, from age and stage to the next
(04:49):
agent stage, and so I think it's so important to
focus on the fact that we're not looking for that
one thing. We're going to keep following the trajectory. We're
going to keep assessing. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Absolutely, And we're practicing in real life, in real time,
exactly what we want to teach them, which is cognitive flexibility.
If this doesn't work, a shift and there's nothing wrong
with that.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, that flexibility. It's a hard thing to come by sometimes,
so I love that. That also really teaches that too.
So you have a six step process for this. Are
you ready to dive into that? Anything we need to
know before that's it?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
And yes, I'm definitely ready to dive in.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Let's talk about step one then.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Okay, so this is where we are vision casting, and
this is where we get to dream as big as
we want to. There's no right or wrong, and it
could be more broad level. So when we're vision casting,
think about a puzzle we're putting together. We're usually starting
off with the corner pieces, the edges, and then we're
just sort of setting it out and it gives us
(05:57):
a foundation for where we want to go. So vision
casting might be for our family, for example, having more
peace and joy and trust and freedom as a whole
and having that felt sense of safety on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And this can be.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Hard for some families who only know chaos and survival mode.
I've been there, and so anything outside of their day
to day life may seem unreachable. But so what we're
doing here is we're writing it out without having any
sense of is this achievable or not. We're just writing
down our goals and what success would look like for us,
for our family, for our kids. It could be, for example,
(06:36):
for our kids to be creative problem solvers. So these
are just in general, what we desire for our family
as a whole, what we desire for ourselves as parents,
and what we desire for our children.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So it's more general than goals.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yes, okay, and the next steps we will get to
more specific goals. But starting off with a vision gives
us a sense of direction, sort of like a compass
want to go.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
A feeling m I was like, how do we want
to feel.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Exactly and where we sit in that, the more it
gives us clarity. So that's the other part of sort
of vision casting. We're reverse engineering and seeing what we
want and working backwards on that. Yeah, and step two
would be this is where we are working on the
next system, which is ourselves as the family dynamic. So
we're building a culture. So step two is build the
(07:27):
family culture. And again, if you think about the hierarchy,
we the family, we are our child's environment. So when
we again looking at the lens from the lens of
O T, we work very holistically. We're looking at the
individual as a whole and what impacts them is their environment,
which is that's the parents for you. And so when
(07:47):
we work on our family also as the environment, that
sort of starts to feel in the puzzle again from
the outside in. So building a family culture may look
like building gratitude, and this sounds so SIMI and I
know this encouragement is heard in every field, but it
just makes such a difference. When we are modeling gratitude,
we're modeling resilience. We're modeling how we choose to meet
(08:11):
the challenge ahead of us. We're modeling coping skills. We're
also choosing connections with our kids. So something that I
have learned, let's say for myself, is we all have
our fight or flight flee tendencies. For me, when I
get highly stressed out, I emotionally leave the room, I
check out. So I'm there with my kids, but I'm
(08:32):
not there emotionally. But when I get to practice gratitude,
I'm bringing myself to the present, the here and now.
And when my kids see that, they see that this
is capable for my mom, so it must be capable
for me too. And so of course that's seeds planted
over time that takes root. But yes, gratitude is such
a huge one for building a family culture or in
(08:53):
this together and we can choose to find joy even
in the hardship.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, and when we create a rhythm around that, I
think it really helps our nervous systems to feel more
steady and safe and secure. And it also provides I
think a sense of predictability that a lot of our
kids struggle with. You know, when things are unpredictable, it
really dysregulates them or it makes things harder for them.
(09:20):
And so we talk a lot about family culture and
family traditions or you know, things that we do and
even as simple as like taco Tuesday or pizza on Friday,
it's like something that's just part of that rhythm and
flow that our kids can look forward to. Works for
that too.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Right exactly exactly, and I was going to touch on that,
and so, yes, these are part of our systems. So
it's not just relational, which it is a big part of,
but it's also environmental. What is our environmental family culture.
I'm going to give some goals for each step, like
some examples. So for the family culture goal, one of
mine was I'm going to track the calendar every day
(10:00):
with my child. And so this is where every morning
we're already sitting down to eat breakfast, the calendars right
there on the fridge along with our to do list.
It takes two minutes to go over it with them
while we eat. And so what this does, just like
you said, was it builds a rhythm of predictability and
is teaching them the long term skill of executive function,
skill of planning and future thinking and even planning their
(10:25):
own calendar one day. So we're modeling those in real
time and we're setting up a system of predictability and
felt sense of safety when you know what's coming next.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And a relational goal might look like having a daily
connection time of five minutes with each of my kids.
And this means one on one face to FaceTime. I'm
not correcting, commanding, expecting anything, but we're just there together.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
No teaching, no judgment right during that time. Yes, what's next?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
All right, let's see. Step three would be as focusing
on us as the parents. We're strengthening ourselves as the parent.
So that's the next hierarchy there, and this is where
we're looking at accountability. How are we tracking our goals?
Sometimes it could be checking off on the calendar each
(11:16):
day that I spend make sure I'm spending time with
my kids those five minutes of daily connection time. Once
I have that check mark, now I have a chain
that I can visualize and see. I don't want to
break that chain. I've been doing so well for so
many days. So it could be simple as that, or
it could be accountability in the sense of who are
you hanging around with, who are you talking to? That
(11:37):
is your support system. I heard quote one time that
someone says, I wouldn't take criticism from someone I wouldn't
take advice from. So who do you admire as far
as being a parent in themselves? They do? They have
the same values as you do. Do they have the
same methodology that you do and that you want to
refine those skills with so in those sense of accountability, Yes,
(12:01):
they could be a friend, a spouse, an online community,
any of those things where you can seek support.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And why is it so important for us to also
think about ourselves? Because we're taught that to be a
good parent, we sacrifice ourselves. So why is strengthening ourselves
part of this process?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I could give one hundred reasons, but I will say
we are humans, just like our children, and at some
point willpower will fail us because our energy reserves will
become depleted. Whenever challenges arise, there is a sense of stress,
and we all experience stress, that's a normal thing, but
(12:45):
when it's outside of our window of tolerance, we can
deal with the stress in a very unhealthy way, which
not only further depletes us, but then it bleeds over
to our kids where we're not able to show up
the way they need. If we're disregulated, they will be dysregulated.
The more regulated we are, the more we will be
able to lend our kids our calmer nervous systems. I
(13:06):
don't say calm, because we're not always one hundred percent calm,
but we will be able to slowly bring them into
regulation as we are regulated ourselves.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah. I often use the word steadiness instead of calm,
because sometimes we can be regulated and not at all calm,
and so yeah, more like study stable.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Absolutely, And it's great when you can even model how
you're regulating yourselves and you're using declarative language or reflective language,
and even I call it living out loud. You're stating
your internal sensations out loud for your kids to see,
because now you're building their language, but also you're normalizing
(13:45):
regulation and disregulation and feelings. We all experience regulation, this regulation,
and that can be so powerful in itself. And my kids,
I sometimes I hear them talking and I guess think
to myself, wow, that's so much emotional maturity for a
childhood age, just because they've been exposed to that language.
Just the other day, my youngest, he was six, He goes, Mom,
(14:07):
you seem really overwhelmed right now. I was just curious.
I was like, what made you think that? And I
must have emotionally left the room because I wasn't even aware.
But he goes, well, you're talking fast, and your voice
is getting a little bit louder, and you're moving around
the kitchen really fast, and I said, you know what,
you are totally right. I think I need to slow
down and take a deep breath right now. So I
(14:29):
did that in front of him. And again, it's not
going to change the world overnight, but you're planting seeds
of growth and change for them and modeling again what
regulation looks like, and that is normal that we all
need to take those measures sometimes.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
M H. I think living out loud is one of
the most powerful parenting tools that we have, especially with
neurodivergent kids at skill building as well. Like so often
the skills that we take for granted that are intuitive
for us, we're just sort of vocalizing it and being
transparent about what we're going through. It humanizes us and
(15:06):
they can pick up a lot of skills that way too,
So I love that that's part of this process.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yes, yes, they need so much more explicit teaching than
we think. Sometimes we sort of assume that it's will
just pick up on things. Skills are caught more than
they're taught sometimes, but also we do need to be
explicit and intentional with what we're modeling and teaching.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
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(15:53):
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(16:16):
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(16:38):
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(16:58):
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let's get back to the episode. So are we on
(17:26):
number four?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I think yes. So number four has to do with
installing systems. This follows up with the environment. So these
are where the routines and the visuals come in place.
And so we have our Like I said, we're talking
about our family culture and then ourselves are the parents,
and then the systems the explicit supports that we have
(17:50):
in place. So visuals we talk about so much, and
we take it for granted because I'm sure any one
of us parents with kids in the school systems who
are dealing with accommodations have heard using visuals strategies. But
really sometimes we don't make us explicit enough or consistent enough,
and so and this is where it gets really powerful.
(18:10):
When we do put those measures in place, and now
we're consistent about with it, we get to notice how
much support it helps our kids when let's say those
supports are removed. So, for example, the other day, I
was working with two of my kids back to back
and I had forgotten to use my visual schedule and
I used to go real fancy and have all these
pictures that you would sort through and put on the
(18:30):
bellco board. And then I was like, I don't have
time for this. I'm I'm also adhd. I don't have
time and the patients to look for these pictures to
replace ones that are torn up. So I really just
simplified it, got a white board and just drew four
little checkmark boxes and then four pictures of what we're
going to do, or I wrote them out with words
if they were older kids. And there were two sessions
(18:51):
back to back that I didn't do this, and my
kids five minutes into the session said can I make
a visual schedule for us? And these were five and
six year olds, so they knew, they knew how much
structure and support you gave them just to have it
nearby to refer to visually, and it wasn't something that
would have completely derailed us, but they definitely notice how
(19:11):
much it helped them. So again, when we are using
something in a very intentional way, we're modeling to our
kids in real time for them how to use it
one day. So one day they'll be using the list,
they'll be using their notepads on their phone or writing
it out. Planners organizers. These are all the baby steps
to get there.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I love that you brought up baby steps. That's how
progress and growth really happened through baby steps. Yeah, sure,
what's next?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So step five? These are where we get to now
look at our kids' skills. So I don't I hate
to use the word behavior, but you know, in the
most neutral way. Now we're specifically targeting their behaviors and
their skills, their skill sets. So I'll give some examples
of goals, but just to kind of give some quick tip,
Like you just said baby steps, not even baby steps
(20:02):
by micro steps. What are the steps? What do I
want to happen? What are the preceding steps to even
get there? So a goal like getting out of the
door in thirty minutes in the morning might be way
too broad for us. We had to even start with
my son will put his shoes on, my son will
bring his own backpack into the car, So like we're
having to really break down those steps. And if those
(20:24):
were hard for him, then we would break them down
even more. I would hold your shoes you can and
making it as fun and playful as you can. We're
gonna piggyback ride to the car and I will hand
you your shoes and you can put it in there.
So just looking at what you can break down into
micro steps, how you can build in fun and playfulness
into a routine that is not so fun and playful.
(20:46):
And I know that our capacities are different and we
don't always feel playful all the time, but we can
always choose a more connected and regulated way if we
just pause and take a deep breath and then proceed.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Can you give us a tea an example too? At
some point, I think some parents listening how teens or
young adults and would be asking, what does like breaking
that down or taking micro stops look like?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Sure, so one of my parents in the parenting program,
and I love love when parents give me the examples
that work for them. So this was not so much
as a breaking it down a micro step and I'll
give you one soon. But she noticed that whenever their
family dog would sleep in her son's bed, he would
fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up quicker.
(21:35):
And it was so funny because she was just like,
I hate washing. Guess she's there's a dog for everywhere.
And then we really had to talk about you know,
what are the cost and benefits here for him to
go to sleep and stay asleep and get enough sleep
which was such a struggle for him, and wake up
on time because of you know, having this dog, their
family dog with him and helping him co regulate, helping
(21:57):
him feel comfortable and safe. All of those were huge wins.
The trade off was, yes, there's dog for in your bed,
in his bed, not just looking at the babe stuff,
but looking at the supports and having to really think
outside of the box too. And so something else that
she did for him was they would plan collaboratively what
meals that would help him that morning to be motivated,
(22:20):
but also to shorten or just simplify their morning routine.
So during the weekend he would pick out his meals,
they would meal prep together. It might be a sausage, egg, cheese,
saying which or something, and then all he would have
to do is heat it up and go in the morning.
So there's collaborative work on even what does it look
like son for us to maybe get out of the
(22:43):
house a little bit quicker, or reduce the steps to
make it easier. It's not a one and done conversation,
but it's like what one thing can we try this week,
do you think and just trial and erring it sometimes,
but yes, for them also and also for us. I
have early school elementary kids, and we sleep in our clothing,
(23:04):
clean clothes at night before and so that cuts out
one step in the morning. There's no shame in my game,
and it's none in hurts either. Whatever simplifies the process.
So the micro step is just consolidating your steps, do
everything in one room versus three different rooms, eating meals
that could be ready to go, and then as they
master each step, then you can make more complex meals
(23:26):
for example if you want. So, Yes, just simplifying wherever
you can.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, and it's great that you mentioned doing a cost
benefit analysis of sorts as well, because sometimes I do
think that you know, it does take more time, more
energy from us as a parent sometimes and sometimes that's
just front loading it and later on we get that
time back. Yes, but yeah, like sometimes there's trade offs,
(23:52):
and the trade offs are better, they're still not ideal, right,
like your kid just magically doing things that you need.
And I think too, like using that cost benefit on
things that maybe we're pushing on where the cost is
great for our kid, it's not always about the cost
benefit for us, right right. I'm really glad you brought
(24:15):
that up.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yep. And again there's cognitive flexibility at play there, you know,
not tying down one way by being open and managing
our own emotions around that. I would rather not have
to do extra laundry because of dog fur, but it
moves the needle and it helps them feel in power invested.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, I love that example. It's a good one.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And then lastly step six, reflect, assess, debrief. So there's
no point in resetting goals if we are not going
to go back and assess how we're doing with those goals.
So this is where we get to close the loop
and set up ourselves for opening the loop again. This
is where reinforcement happens. So I'll circle back in a
(24:58):
minute with some examples, but reflecting, assessing, and debriefing on
our broader scale might look like, is this goal still
meaningful for us right now? So is the morning am
routine the biggest fish to fry right now? Or should
I pivot? And also just giving ourselves grace to know
when we pivot, it doesn't mean we're failing. It just
means we're adjusting. We're making room for us what's more
(25:19):
important in the moment, our values, and then we can
always circle back, but that consistent reflection even at the
end of the day, did things go the way I
wanted to? Did I show up as the parents that
I wanted to show up? What could I have done differently?
Are there any repairs that need to be made? And
when there are, did I make the repair in a
timely manner? And sometimes we do need to make a
(25:42):
really brief repair and then circle back the next day
when we're all more regulated. But that kind of reflection
is the difference between being intentional and just flying by
the seat of our pants. So we feel much more
empowered when we can reflect and then assess what can
I do differently and let that bring us the next
day of starting over and resetting with a much more
(26:02):
empowered state of mind.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Mm hmmm, it's modeling again. We're modeling that reflection and
intentionality for our kids.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Absolutely. And the cool thing is those those six steps.
The more you do it, it feels so hard, and
give yourselves a grace just knowing that human nature is
that we can persist for so long and then we
gets very very hard that's when the discomfort feels very
very great, and it's very tempting to slow down or
even give up in those moments. But set the intention
(26:31):
of in two or three weeks, when I set a goal,
I'm probably going to hit that slump. There's a phrase
for a value of despair is what it's called. And
set yourself up for success with backups and you know
this if then statement, if I don't do this, then
I can still do this. If I don't make the
repair right away, and then I'm going to circle back
after so and so, after I just regulate myself with
(26:53):
a cup of tea, or if this morning didn't go
as planned, then whatever happens next. So just having the
backup plan so that you can give yourselves grace knowing
that you're human. But also life happens, and so there's
things that are out of our control. But still setting
the intention to choose what we do have control over,
which is our mindset, how we show up, and how
(27:15):
we choose to also experience and perceive our child. We
know that at any moment, we're all doing the best
we can with the skills we have, including our child
and ourselves.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, this is such an important lesson I think for
us as adults, as we do get on autopilot, we
do get overwhelmed. We are sometimes in survival mode, and intentionality,
I think is the way that we can break the
cycle and start to move forward towards growth. You're giving
us this great process to go through to really make
(27:48):
sure that we are on a track for growth, that
we're on a path to where we want to go
or our kids want to go. And it's so very valuable.
It's a good remind for that. Will you tell everybody
where they can find you online so that they can
learn more from you and potentially work with you.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Sure, Carolin Fitzsimmons Coaching dot com. The name is still
a little bit differently, it's c A r O l
I n E last name f I T s I
M O n E s coaching dot com. So yes,
I'll look forward to just hearing from any questions and
also thank you again for having me always.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
It's such pleasure. I learned so much from Neo every
time that we talk. And I'll link up your website
in the show notes at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot
com two for everyone to make it super easy for
you to find Caroline online and connect in that way.
Thanks so much for the work that you're doing and
for being here. And I thank everybody listening for showing
(28:48):
up for your kids as well.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I'll see everyone next time. Take good care, I see you.
You're doing hard and meaningful work and you don't have
to do it alone. If you found this episode helpful,
share it with someone who needs it and leave a
quick review so others can find this support too. When
you're ready for next steps, the Regulated Kids Project is
(29:13):
here with the tools, coaching, and community to help you
raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get more info at
regulated kids dot com.
Having the backup plan so that you can give yourselves
grace knowing that you're human. But also life happens, and
so there's things that are out of our control, but
still setting the intention to choose what we do have
control over, which is our mindset, how we show up,
and how we choose to also experience and perceive our child.
We know that at any moment, we're all doing the
(00:22):
best we can with the skills we have, including our
child and ourselves.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
(00:48):
if you want more support, join our free community at
hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back, everyone, I
am so I'm glad that you are here and you
are listening. Today. I have with me Caroline Fitzsimmons, who
is an ADHD parenting coach and an occupational therapist, and
(01:11):
we're going to talk about tracking and maintaining progress, which
I think sounds overwhelming and difficult, and Caroline is going
to help us to really break that down, and we're
going to talk about why we need to do it,
why we would want to do it, and then what
it looks like stop by step, how do we do this,
and how do we then take that information to make improvements.
(01:35):
So Caroline, will you start by letting everybody know who
you are and what you do?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yes, thank you Penny for having me, of course. Yes,
I'm Carolin Fitzimmons and I have been a pediatric occupacial
therapist for twenty one years now, and I will say
my biggest learning experience and application has been after having kids,
one of them being new or divergent. And this is
where the rubber hit the road and I really had
(02:01):
to take inventory of what I thought I knew and
what I really didn't know. And so it's been such
a wonderful learning experience filled with heartache in humor, and
just after having been through that lived experience myself, I
just have a whole new compassion and empathy for parents
that I work with. And so yes, a lot of
(02:22):
what I do now is much more realistic, the expectations
are more realistic. For families in general, and there's just
so many hardships that were navigating anyway, and so it's
something that's much more doable for parents and more supportive
in just my approach in general.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, and I hear parents so often say nothing is working.
And I remember the days that I would tell everyone
in my kid's orbit, nothing is working, and typically they
would say, well, be specific, tell me what it is, specifically,
tell me when it happens. And I learned that I
had to take notes, I had to really in on
(03:01):
specifics of what was working, what wasn't working, so that
it would be helpful. And I, you know, over time,
learned that our brains are wired to focus on the
negative to keep us safe. And so that was why
by the time I got to a monthly appointment, I
felt like everything was crumbling. So I think intention here
(03:21):
is super important. Why else do we want to look
at tracking and maintaining progress such.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
A good example, And I'll I'll back up a little
bit as far as in the clinical setting prots, we
have to set goals and otherwise we're not working towards
anything measurable and we're sort of just kind of shooting
in the dark. So setting goals gives us a vision
to work towards, and then in between, Let's say I
(03:51):
evaluate a child, set goals, and then twelve months later
I reevaluate him. Now I have a baseline. And so
setting goals is not to set us up for failure,
but it is to give us something to track. And
so when we're off base, we get to course correct
and pivot instead of pounding your head against the wall
and saying, why is it working? But every hiccup, every
(04:12):
quote unquote failure is data, just like you were saying,
you get to track it and pivot and notice, Okay,
we have found all the ways that don't work. Now
we get to try different ways that do work. And
oftentimes that means we need to think out of the
box and do something very differently in a way we
probably would have tried before.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah. I think the whole game for parenting neurodivergent kids
is about pivoting. It's about analyzing, being aware, and then
pivoting because we have to do it differently for our
kids so many things, but also because things change from
day to day, from age and stage to the next
(04:49):
agent stage, and so I think it's so important to
focus on the fact that we're not looking for that
one thing. We're going to keep following the trajectory. We're
going to keep assessing. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Absolutely, And we're practicing in real life, in real time,
exactly what we want to teach them, which is cognitive flexibility.
If this doesn't work, a shift and there's nothing wrong
with that.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, that flexibility. It's a hard thing to come by sometimes,
so I love that. That also really teaches that too.
So you have a six step process for this. Are
you ready to dive into that? Anything we need to
know before that's it?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
And yes, I'm definitely ready to dive in.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Let's talk about step one then.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Okay, so this is where we are vision casting, and
this is where we get to dream as big as
we want to. There's no right or wrong, and it
could be more broad level. So when we're vision casting,
think about a puzzle we're putting together. We're usually starting
off with the corner pieces, the edges, and then we're
just sort of setting it out and it gives us
(05:57):
a foundation for where we want to go. So vision
casting might be for our family, for example, having more
peace and joy and trust and freedom as a whole
and having that felt sense of safety on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And this can be.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Hard for some families who only know chaos and survival mode.
I've been there, and so anything outside of their day
to day life may seem unreachable. But so what we're
doing here is we're writing it out without having any
sense of is this achievable or not. We're just writing
down our goals and what success would look like for us,
for our family, for our kids. It could be, for example,
(06:36):
for our kids to be creative problem solvers. So these
are just in general, what we desire for our family
as a whole, what we desire for ourselves as parents,
and what we desire for our children.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So it's more general than goals.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yes, okay, and the next steps we will get to
more specific goals. But starting off with a vision gives
us a sense of direction, sort of like a compass
want to go.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
A feeling m I was like, how do we want
to feel.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Exactly and where we sit in that, the more it
gives us clarity. So that's the other part of sort
of vision casting. We're reverse engineering and seeing what we
want and working backwards on that. Yeah, and step two
would be this is where we are working on the
next system, which is ourselves as the family dynamic. So
we're building a culture. So step two is build the
(07:27):
family culture. And again, if you think about the hierarchy,
we the family, we are our child's environment. So when
we again looking at the lens from the lens of
O T, we work very holistically. We're looking at the
individual as a whole and what impacts them is their environment,
which is that's the parents for you. And so when
(07:47):
we work on our family also as the environment, that
sort of starts to feel in the puzzle again from
the outside in. So building a family culture may look
like building gratitude, and this sounds so SIMI and I
know this encouragement is heard in every field, but it
just makes such a difference. When we are modeling gratitude,
we're modeling resilience. We're modeling how we choose to meet
(08:11):
the challenge ahead of us. We're modeling coping skills. We're
also choosing connections with our kids. So something that I
have learned, let's say for myself, is we all have
our fight or flight flee tendencies. For me, when I
get highly stressed out, I emotionally leave the room, I
check out. So I'm there with my kids, but I'm
(08:32):
not there emotionally. But when I get to practice gratitude,
I'm bringing myself to the present, the here and now.
And when my kids see that, they see that this
is capable for my mom, so it must be capable
for me too. And so of course that's seeds planted
over time that takes root. But yes, gratitude is such
a huge one for building a family culture or in
(08:53):
this together and we can choose to find joy even
in the hardship.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, and when we create a rhythm around that, I
think it really helps our nervous systems to feel more
steady and safe and secure. And it also provides I
think a sense of predictability that a lot of our
kids struggle with. You know, when things are unpredictable, it
really dysregulates them or it makes things harder for them.
(09:20):
And so we talk a lot about family culture and
family traditions or you know, things that we do and
even as simple as like taco Tuesday or pizza on Friday,
it's like something that's just part of that rhythm and
flow that our kids can look forward to. Works for
that too.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Right exactly exactly, and I was going to touch on that,
and so, yes, these are part of our systems. So
it's not just relational, which it is a big part of,
but it's also environmental. What is our environmental family culture.
I'm going to give some goals for each step, like
some examples. So for the family culture goal, one of
mine was I'm going to track the calendar every day
(10:00):
with my child. And so this is where every morning
we're already sitting down to eat breakfast, the calendars right
there on the fridge along with our to do list.
It takes two minutes to go over it with them
while we eat. And so what this does, just like
you said, was it builds a rhythm of predictability and
is teaching them the long term skill of executive function,
skill of planning and future thinking and even planning their
(10:25):
own calendar one day. So we're modeling those in real
time and we're setting up a system of predictability and
felt sense of safety when you know what's coming next.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And a relational goal might look like having a daily
connection time of five minutes with each of my kids.
And this means one on one face to FaceTime. I'm
not correcting, commanding, expecting anything, but we're just there together.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
No teaching, no judgment right during that time. Yes, what's next?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
All right, let's see. Step three would be as focusing
on us as the parents. We're strengthening ourselves as the parent.
So that's the next hierarchy there, and this is where
we're looking at accountability. How are we tracking our goals?
Sometimes it could be checking off on the calendar each
(11:16):
day that I spend make sure I'm spending time with
my kids those five minutes of daily connection time. Once
I have that check mark, now I have a chain
that I can visualize and see. I don't want to
break that chain. I've been doing so well for so
many days. So it could be simple as that, or
it could be accountability in the sense of who are
you hanging around with, who are you talking to? That
(11:37):
is your support system. I heard quote one time that
someone says, I wouldn't take criticism from someone I wouldn't
take advice from. So who do you admire as far
as being a parent in themselves? They do? They have
the same values as you do. Do they have the
same methodology that you do and that you want to
refine those skills with so in those sense of accountability, Yes,
(12:01):
they could be a friend, a spouse, an online community,
any of those things where you can seek support.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And why is it so important for us to also
think about ourselves? Because we're taught that to be a
good parent, we sacrifice ourselves. So why is strengthening ourselves
part of this process?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I could give one hundred reasons, but I will say
we are humans, just like our children, and at some
point willpower will fail us because our energy reserves will
become depleted. Whenever challenges arise, there is a sense of stress,
and we all experience stress, that's a normal thing, but
(12:45):
when it's outside of our window of tolerance, we can
deal with the stress in a very unhealthy way, which
not only further depletes us, but then it bleeds over
to our kids where we're not able to show up
the way they need. If we're disregulated, they will be dysregulated.
The more regulated we are, the more we will be
able to lend our kids our calmer nervous systems. I
(13:06):
don't say calm, because we're not always one hundred percent calm,
but we will be able to slowly bring them into
regulation as we are regulated ourselves.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah. I often use the word steadiness instead of calm,
because sometimes we can be regulated and not at all calm,
and so yeah, more like study stable.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Absolutely, And it's great when you can even model how
you're regulating yourselves and you're using declarative language or reflective language,
and even I call it living out loud. You're stating
your internal sensations out loud for your kids to see,
because now you're building their language, but also you're normalizing
(13:45):
regulation and disregulation and feelings. We all experience regulation, this regulation,
and that can be so powerful in itself. And my kids,
I sometimes I hear them talking and I guess think
to myself, wow, that's so much emotional maturity for a
childhood age, just because they've been exposed to that language.
Just the other day, my youngest, he was six, He goes, Mom,
(14:07):
you seem really overwhelmed right now. I was just curious.
I was like, what made you think that? And I
must have emotionally left the room because I wasn't even aware.
But he goes, well, you're talking fast, and your voice
is getting a little bit louder, and you're moving around
the kitchen really fast, and I said, you know what,
you are totally right. I think I need to slow
down and take a deep breath right now. So I
(14:29):
did that in front of him. And again, it's not
going to change the world overnight, but you're planting seeds
of growth and change for them and modeling again what
regulation looks like, and that is normal that we all
need to take those measures sometimes.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
M H. I think living out loud is one of
the most powerful parenting tools that we have, especially with
neurodivergent kids at skill building as well. Like so often
the skills that we take for granted that are intuitive
for us, we're just sort of vocalizing it and being
transparent about what we're going through. It humanizes us and
(15:06):
they can pick up a lot of skills that way too,
So I love that that's part of this process.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yes, yes, they need so much more explicit teaching than
we think. Sometimes we sort of assume that it's will
just pick up on things. Skills are caught more than
they're taught sometimes, but also we do need to be
explicit and intentional with what we're modeling and teaching.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
To before we jump back in. I want to share
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(15:53):
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(16:16):
stress load and stress response that is blocking learning for
your kid. How to adjust expectations in real time so
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(16:38):
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(16:58):
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let's get back to the episode. So are we on
(17:26):
number four?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I think yes. So number four has to do with
installing systems. This follows up with the environment. So these
are where the routines and the visuals come in place.
And so we have our Like I said, we're talking
about our family culture and then ourselves are the parents,
and then the systems the explicit supports that we have
(17:50):
in place. So visuals we talk about so much, and
we take it for granted because I'm sure any one
of us parents with kids in the school systems who
are dealing with accommodations have heard using visuals strategies. But
really sometimes we don't make us explicit enough or consistent enough,
and so and this is where it gets really powerful.
(18:10):
When we do put those measures in place, and now
we're consistent about with it, we get to notice how
much support it helps our kids when let's say those
supports are removed. So, for example, the other day, I
was working with two of my kids back to back
and I had forgotten to use my visual schedule and
I used to go real fancy and have all these
pictures that you would sort through and put on the
(18:30):
bellco board. And then I was like, I don't have
time for this. I'm I'm also adhd. I don't have
time and the patients to look for these pictures to
replace ones that are torn up. So I really just
simplified it, got a white board and just drew four
little checkmark boxes and then four pictures of what we're
going to do, or I wrote them out with words
if they were older kids. And there were two sessions
(18:51):
back to back that I didn't do this, and my
kids five minutes into the session said can I make
a visual schedule for us? And these were five and
six year olds, so they knew, they knew how much
structure and support you gave them just to have it
nearby to refer to visually, and it wasn't something that
would have completely derailed us, but they definitely notice how
(19:11):
much it helped them. So again, when we are using
something in a very intentional way, we're modeling to our
kids in real time for them how to use it
one day. So one day they'll be using the list,
they'll be using their notepads on their phone or writing
it out. Planners organizers. These are all the baby steps
to get there.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I love that you brought up baby steps. That's how
progress and growth really happened through baby steps. Yeah, sure,
what's next?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So step five? These are where we get to now
look at our kids' skills. So I don't I hate
to use the word behavior, but you know, in the
most neutral way. Now we're specifically targeting their behaviors and
their skills, their skill sets. So I'll give some examples
of goals, but just to kind of give some quick tip,
Like you just said baby steps, not even baby steps
(20:02):
by micro steps. What are the steps? What do I
want to happen? What are the preceding steps to even
get there? So a goal like getting out of the
door in thirty minutes in the morning might be way
too broad for us. We had to even start with
my son will put his shoes on, my son will
bring his own backpack into the car, So like we're
having to really break down those steps. And if those
(20:24):
were hard for him, then we would break them down
even more. I would hold your shoes you can and
making it as fun and playful as you can. We're
gonna piggyback ride to the car and I will hand
you your shoes and you can put it in there.
So just looking at what you can break down into
micro steps, how you can build in fun and playfulness
into a routine that is not so fun and playful.
(20:46):
And I know that our capacities are different and we
don't always feel playful all the time, but we can
always choose a more connected and regulated way if we
just pause and take a deep breath and then proceed.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Can you give us a tea an example too? At
some point, I think some parents listening how teens or
young adults and would be asking, what does like breaking
that down or taking micro stops look like?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Sure, so one of my parents in the parenting program,
and I love love when parents give me the examples
that work for them. So this was not so much
as a breaking it down a micro step and I'll
give you one soon. But she noticed that whenever their
family dog would sleep in her son's bed, he would
fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up quicker.
(21:35):
And it was so funny because she was just like,
I hate washing. Guess she's there's a dog for everywhere.
And then we really had to talk about you know,
what are the cost and benefits here for him to
go to sleep and stay asleep and get enough sleep
which was such a struggle for him, and wake up
on time because of you know, having this dog, their
family dog with him and helping him co regulate, helping
(21:57):
him feel comfortable and safe. All of those were huge wins.
The trade off was, yes, there's dog for in your bed,
in his bed, not just looking at the babe stuff,
but looking at the supports and having to really think
outside of the box too. And so something else that
she did for him was they would plan collaboratively what
meals that would help him that morning to be motivated,
(22:20):
but also to shorten or just simplify their morning routine.
So during the weekend he would pick out his meals,
they would meal prep together. It might be a sausage, egg, cheese,
saying which or something, and then all he would have
to do is heat it up and go in the morning.
So there's collaborative work on even what does it look
like son for us to maybe get out of the
(22:43):
house a little bit quicker, or reduce the steps to
make it easier. It's not a one and done conversation,
but it's like what one thing can we try this week,
do you think and just trial and erring it sometimes,
but yes, for them also and also for us. I
have early school elementary kids, and we sleep in our clothing,
(23:04):
clean clothes at night before and so that cuts out
one step in the morning. There's no shame in my game,
and it's none in hurts either. Whatever simplifies the process.
So the micro step is just consolidating your steps, do
everything in one room versus three different rooms, eating meals
that could be ready to go, and then as they
master each step, then you can make more complex meals
(23:26):
for example if you want. So, Yes, just simplifying wherever
you can.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, and it's great that you mentioned doing a cost
benefit analysis of sorts as well, because sometimes I do
think that you know, it does take more time, more
energy from us as a parent sometimes and sometimes that's
just front loading it and later on we get that
time back. Yes, but yeah, like sometimes there's trade offs,
(23:52):
and the trade offs are better, they're still not ideal, right,
like your kid just magically doing things that you need.
And I think too, like using that cost benefit on
things that maybe we're pushing on where the cost is
great for our kid, it's not always about the cost
benefit for us, right right. I'm really glad you brought
(24:15):
that up.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yep. And again there's cognitive flexibility at play there, you know,
not tying down one way by being open and managing
our own emotions around that. I would rather not have
to do extra laundry because of dog fur, but it
moves the needle and it helps them feel in power invested.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, I love that example. It's a good one.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And then lastly step six, reflect, assess, debrief. So there's
no point in resetting goals if we are not going
to go back and assess how we're doing with those goals.
So this is where we get to close the loop
and set up ourselves for opening the loop again. This
is where reinforcement happens. So I'll circle back in a
(24:58):
minute with some examples, but reflecting, assessing, and debriefing on
our broader scale might look like, is this goal still
meaningful for us right now? So is the morning am
routine the biggest fish to fry right now? Or should
I pivot? And also just giving ourselves grace to know
when we pivot, it doesn't mean we're failing. It just
means we're adjusting. We're making room for us what's more
(25:19):
important in the moment, our values, and then we can
always circle back, but that consistent reflection even at the
end of the day, did things go the way I
wanted to? Did I show up as the parents that
I wanted to show up? What could I have done differently?
Are there any repairs that need to be made? And
when there are, did I make the repair in a
timely manner? And sometimes we do need to make a
(25:42):
really brief repair and then circle back the next day
when we're all more regulated. But that kind of reflection
is the difference between being intentional and just flying by
the seat of our pants. So we feel much more
empowered when we can reflect and then assess what can
I do differently and let that bring us the next
day of starting over and resetting with a much more
(26:02):
empowered state of mind.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Mm hmmm, it's modeling again. We're modeling that reflection and
intentionality for our kids.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Absolutely. And the cool thing is those those six steps.
The more you do it, it feels so hard, and
give yourselves a grace just knowing that human nature is
that we can persist for so long and then we
gets very very hard that's when the discomfort feels very
very great, and it's very tempting to slow down or
even give up in those moments. But set the intention
(26:31):
of in two or three weeks, when I set a goal,
I'm probably going to hit that slump. There's a phrase
for a value of despair is what it's called. And
set yourself up for success with backups and you know
this if then statement, if I don't do this, then
I can still do this. If I don't make the
repair right away, and then I'm going to circle back
after so and so, after I just regulate myself with
(26:53):
a cup of tea, or if this morning didn't go
as planned, then whatever happens next. So just having the
backup plan so that you can give yourselves grace knowing
that you're human. But also life happens, and so there's
things that are out of our control. But still setting
the intention to choose what we do have control over,
which is our mindset, how we show up, and how
(27:15):
we choose to also experience and perceive our child. We
know that at any moment, we're all doing the best
we can with the skills we have, including our child
and ourselves.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, this is such an important lesson I think for
us as adults, as we do get on autopilot, we
do get overwhelmed. We are sometimes in survival mode, and intentionality,
I think is the way that we can break the
cycle and start to move forward towards growth. You're giving
us this great process to go through to really make
(27:48):
sure that we are on a track for growth, that
we're on a path to where we want to go
or our kids want to go. And it's so very valuable.
It's a good remind for that. Will you tell everybody
where they can find you online so that they can
learn more from you and potentially work with you.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Sure, Carolin Fitzsimmons Coaching dot com. The name is still
a little bit differently, it's c A r O l
I n E last name f I T s I
M O n E s coaching dot com. So yes,
I'll look forward to just hearing from any questions and
also thank you again for having me always.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
It's such pleasure. I learned so much from Neo every
time that we talk. And I'll link up your website
in the show notes at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot
com two for everyone to make it super easy for
you to find Caroline online and connect in that way.
Thanks so much for the work that you're doing and
for being here. And I thank everybody listening for showing
(28:48):
up for your kids as well.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I'll see everyone next time. Take good care, I see you.
You're doing hard and meaningful work and you don't have
to do it alone. If you found this episode helpful,
share it with someone who needs it and leave a
quick review so others can find this support too. When
you're ready for next steps, the Regulated Kids Project is
(29:13):
here with the tools, coaching, and community to help you
raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get more info at
regulated kids dot com.
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