August 7, 2023 • 36 mins
How would you navigate through the wilderness of grief, discover a new version of yourself, and perhaps, find love again after losing a life partner of over three decades?
The fearless guest and inspiring Debbie Weiss have walked the path and shared her journey. Having lost her husband to cancer, Debbie provides a poignant narrative of living through loss, wrestling with grief, and finding the courage to reshape her life.
Debbie is a former attorney who earned her MFA in creative writing at 56 from Saint Mary's College of California. After losing her high school sweetheart and husband of 32 years, George, Debbie turned to writing as she lived alone and single for the first time.
In this episode, we pull back the layers of Debbie's healing process, exploring the instrumental role of therapy in dealing with her loss. The struggle to respect her husband's wishes while battling the urge to intervene is heart-rending, as is her journey back to school for an MFA. Her resilience is evident in how she dealt with loneliness and eventually ventured into online dating, leading her to find love again five years after her husband's passing.
Her journey results in a book titled "Available As Is: "A Midlife Widow's Search for Love," published in 2022.
As we wrap up, the power of Debbie's story emerges in her candid reflections. Her openness and vulnerability encourage us to listen, respond, and connect. In sharing her tale, Debbie becomes a beacon of hope, reminding us that loss is not the end but a part of life's journey. Indeed, life can and does go on, sometimes in ways we never imagined. Join us in this heartfelt conversation and let Debbie's story inspire those treading a similar path.
Debbie lives in California Bay Area.
Let's Enjoy her Story.
To Connect with Debbie: https://debbieweissauthor.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniela (00:08):
Hi, I'm Daniela.
Welcome to my podcast, becauseeveryone has a story, the place
to give ordinary people, stories, the chance to be shared and
preserved.
Our stories become the languageof connections.
Let's enjoy it, connect andrelate, because everyone has a
story.
Welcome.
(00:31):
My guest is Debbie Weiss.
Debbie is a former attorney whoearned her MFA in creative
writing at 56.
After losing her high schoolsweetheart and husband of 32
years, george, debbie turned towriting as she lived alone and
single for the first time.
How would you navigate throughthe wilderness of grief,
(00:55):
discover a new version ofyourself and perhaps find love
again after losing a lifepartner, or find hope again or
motivation to continue?
Debbie has walked the path andshares her journey and candid
reflections with us.
Her openness and vulnerabilityencouraged me to listen and
(01:17):
connect even deeper as sheteaches that loss, and I thought
this was fascinating.
It's not the end, but a part oflife journey.
I find that grief is a complexemotion that we all experience
in one way or another.
Sometimes we use differentnames, like nostalgia or
(01:38):
reminiscence.
We could have grief for timesthat have passed, for people
that have passed, for situationsthat have passed, and we all
react in different ways,different times.
It is not predictable.
Let's enjoy Debbie's story ofgreat insights.
Welcome, debbie, to the show.
Thank you for being here.
(01:59):
Thank you for having me.
Daniela, yes, and I know youhave a story, an interesting
story.
Why do you want to share yourstory?
Debbie Weiss (02:07):
Well, my story is about recovering after loss,
after losing my husband of 32years and trying to make a new
life.
I want to share my story incase it helps other people
who've suffered a loss and havea really hard time getting over
their grief.
Daniela (02:20):
Yes, and thank you for that, because, it's true, some
of the people usually don't hearmuch, but I appreciate you
bringing it here.
Thank you.
So, debbie, when does yourstory start?
Debbie Weiss (02:29):
Well, my story probably starts when I was seven
years old.
My dad worked with a woman whohad a cute 11-year-old son, and
I met him.
His name was George.
My dad and George's mom wereboth scientists.
Over the years, we got throwntogether.
We started dating when I was 17.
I was a junior in high schooland he was 21.
He was an engineering major atUC Berkeley.
(02:50):
That's where we met and then westarted dating and we were
together for 32 years.
I went to law school.
We were pretty happy and then,well, our story changed in 2013
because he passed away fromcancer.
Daniela (03:03):
But Debbie Daniela is more than 30 years.
I mean, you knew him from whenhe was seven and then 17.
Debbie Weiss (03:10):
Yeah, I started dating when we were 17.
So we had 32 years together asa couple, but I'd known him for
42 years of my life.
Daniela (03:17):
Wow, yes, very well, he's like really soulmate I
thought, so I felt like it.
Debbie Weiss (03:22):
It definitely felt like it.
Daniela (03:24):
Wow, that sounds so sweet.
So you were enjoying life andcertainly he got sick.
Debbie Weiss (03:30):
Yeah, it wasn't too sudden.
In 2009 he was diagnosed withcancer and we had a few good
years.
He kept working.
He was a workaholic.
Sadly, he kept working as anengineer.
I'd retired by then.
I was a lawyer and I putpracticing about 10 years before
, and then we just kind of wenton to our life until he started
to decline In mid-2012, itreally hit him.
Daniela (03:52):
So when he knew that he was sick, he wasn't the kind of
person who decided, okay, I'mgoing to change my life.
He just kept everything thesame as he was.
Debbie Weiss (03:59):
That's very true.
He was not going to change hislife.
He was going to keep working.
He coded a financial productcalled a software program called
Quicken and he was going tomake the best Quicken imaginable
and he was going to not let hiscolleagues down.
He was a wonderful mentor toother engineers.
He was a homebody.
He wanted to keep cooking.
The one thing he didn't want todo was have this control his
(04:20):
life.
So he kind of treated it likeanother part of his job, a bad
part.
Daniela (04:26):
Wow, interesting.
So I guess his life, and withyou it was such a beautiful life
.
Okay, I'm sick, but there isnothing I need to change because
everything that is happening isokay in my life.
Debbie Weiss (04:37):
I think he felt that way.
I like to think he felt thatway.
The bad way to look at it washe was a workaholic and that
wasn't going to change.
But I also think he was happywith the way he lived.
We loved to cook, we werehomebodies, we cooked a lot.
We shopped a lot foringredients.
He had a little sports car.
He was an engineer.
We drive around fast and buyingredients and make these
dinners and I think he was happydoing that.
(05:00):
I don't think he wanted tochange anything, but I also
think at some level he didn'tbelieve he was dying.
I think he believed he wasgoing to live for a long life.
And what about you?
Oh, I was worried.
I have anxiety already and Ithought maybe we would want to
do some different things.
I thought he might want to takesome time off work and have
(05:22):
some more time together, maybetravel a bit.
Before things got worse, he hadchemo every three weeks, so
that was a limitation, but Ithought we might want to do that
and kind of I don't know what,what do you do?
Take photographs, write thingsdown, maybe look at our lives as
finite.
But that wasn't something hewanted.
He was a stronger personalitythan I did.
(05:43):
Now my personality is verystrong, but then it wasn't so
strong.
Been in this relationship sinceI was 17,.
Since high school we just kindof did kind of let him decide
how we wanted to live.
Daniela (05:54):
It is interesting because you will say what is his
life?
He has to decide.
However, he's gone, but you areleft.
I think the people who staybehind are the ones who are
affected.
We always think about theperson who's dying, but never
the person who's staying.
Debbie Weiss (06:09):
That's a really good point.
I completely agree.
It was terribly sad when he wasgone.
But yeah, then you're left.
I mean I was when he died I was49.
So I still had a lot of my lifeleft.
I was overcome with grief.
I felt very guilty.
George had been in denial abouthaving cancer so he never
thought he was dying.
At the end his mind did someweird trick and he thought he
(06:30):
was getting better.
So we never had a real goodbye.
He didn't involve his parents,which was very hard for me and,
of course, for them.
So yeah, he was gone and I waslike, well, I still have this
life left, but what do I?
Daniela (06:45):
do?
Yes, what do you do?
Because you've been living withhim for so long and he was your
soulmate, and now you're onyour own.
Exactly, yep, that was exactlyit.
I guess.
What happens at the beginningWere you grieving first and then
, after you start to realizeabout you.
Debbie Weiss (07:02):
Well, I'm an ex-lawyer, so I kind of went
into two modes.
I got really organized.
During the day I was veryorganized and I had lists of
things to do.
You know, our home was in verybad shape because he'd been had
cancer for a while and we'd putall that on the back burner.
So I got really efficient.
I kind of blocked things out,did all the paperwork and
straightened up our house anddid all this stuff.
(07:23):
But at night I was all aloneand it was a small house but it
felt really empty and reallyquiet.
At night I would just listen tomusic, listen to his favorite
records, eat a turntable anddrink bourbon.
I drink Manhattan's.
It's kind of spaced out.
Daniela (07:40):
It felt very lost, then I can imagine how it is.
You know, when my dad passedaway which he was my best friend
I was studying law and I gotreally efficient my mom wasn't
there.
These decisions that I had tomake and I was very cold took me
a long time before I started tocry.
It was like about five monthsthat it hit me and I was really
(08:03):
sad At the beginning.
These five months I was likedoing, doing, doing so.
It's interesting that you weredoing that too.
Debbie Weiss (08:09):
Yeah, I was.
I was.
I just tried to look at it verypractically like well, how are
my finances?
What do I need to do to thehouse?
You know, the bathroom wasleaking into the dining room.
How am I going to forget this?
Straightened out and I wasn'treally thinking well about how
sad I was and how much I missedhim.
I'd lost my mom when I was 10,so those feelings did start to
(08:30):
creep back in, no loss before ittook a while before, you know,
it felt like armor.
You know, I think maybe we kindof go into a mode where we're a
little bit armor.
Daniela (08:40):
And you said you fell alone.
Did you have people around you?
Not?
Debbie Weiss (08:43):
so much.
You know I don't have kids andGeorge and I were real isolated.
We didn't have close friends.
You know we had acquaintances.
My dad was in his mid 80s thenand he had some health problems
and, as is my stepmom, I'm anonly child, george was an only
child.
I didn't have people around me.
You know I would go visit mydad nearby, I'd visit him a lot
of the days and, just you know,sit and hang out with them, but
(09:05):
they had their own healthproblems so they couldn't really
help me.
So how do you help yourself?
Eventually I got things in orderand I realized, you know, I
kind of got out of fight orflight mode, that real organized
kind of thing, and things weredone and I looked around and it
was like, okay, there's nothing,there's no real crises right
now, and I just started doingthings I used to do.
(09:26):
I started taking long walksagain.
I joined a yoga studio.
I went back into writing.
That really helped me.
I used to take a weekly writingclass before George got sick
and I went back to the writingclass and just kind of joined a
bunch of groups to try to meetpeople and to get out of the
house and to talk to people thatfelt real different to me.
(09:48):
I felt so isolated.
I was like trying tore-socialize myself.
Daniela (09:53):
And how was that in different times?
How was that?
Debbie Weiss (09:56):
Well, some of it was good and some of it wasn't.
Going to the local rotary clubprobably wasn't.
For me, it's very conservative.
I joined a car club becauseGeorge had this car and the
people were really nice.
But I'm not really a car person.
But we had breakfast Saturdaymornings and it was nice.
People were very nice.
Some of them had known us as acouple and it was nice to have
(10:16):
people hang out with.
And then the yoga studio hadsome really friendly women and I
went to evening classes andthat broke up the nights because
I wasn't just alone all thetime.
Writing took a lot of time andI made friends and joined a
writing group and that turnedinto a much larger thing.
Things started to feel a littlebit better that way.
Daniela (10:35):
You had a feeling, an interesting or different feeling
, because you felt well, I am awidow, so perhaps I don't know.
You had some kind of story thatyou told in your head.
Debbie Weiss (10:45):
Well, I told myself, I was pulled together.
I was very conscientious, I hadthe right makeup and I made
sure George's sports car waswashed.
I didn't want to look pathetic.
I had little coordinatedoutfits.
I didn't realize it.
People thought I lookedterrific, but I was way too thin
because I wasn't really eating.
I was so amped up and I had astory in my head that I'd had a
(11:08):
good life with my late husbandand now I was venturing out and
I was fine.
I think I pulled it off, butinwardly I wasn't really fine
and I felt very, very lonely andbereft and kind of lost.
Why am I here?
Why?
Daniela (11:26):
am I still here?
I can imagine Wow.
And this is how, many monthsafter.
Debbie Weiss (11:30):
Probably six months.
Daniela (11:31):
So six months you're feeling like that and what
happened?
Debbie Weiss (11:35):
Well, I got into a bad relationship that wasn't so
brilliant when a George'sformer caregivers.
We started out as friends andthen it got a little crazy.
At first it was fun.
He was really into cinema andwe went to all these film
festivals and I live in thislittle lived in this suburban
town.
That was pretty boring and we'dgo to the city and we'd go out
and we both loved eating theseburgers and milkshakes and it
(11:58):
was kind of a lot of fun.
But ultimately he got kind ofcontrolling and I realized that
I shouldn't have been in arelationship anyway and this was
not a good relationship, ahealthy relationship ultimately.
So I had to break away fromthat?
Daniela (12:12):
What did you learn besides that?
You already knew that, becausethat's the way you are.
Did it help?
Debbie Weiss (12:17):
Well, it all made me grow.
Even the bad relationship mademe realize that I had to be
stronger and I had to learn tostand on my own.
I got into therapy after thatbecause I realized I needed help
to learn to stand on my own.
But I also learned I had thecapacity to love again, that I
could feel passion and love andthat ultimately that was
something I was going to wantagain.
All the groups and things Ijoined I realized, you know, I
(12:39):
was fine, I wasn't that strangeor socially awkward.
I could join a group and Icould talk and I could try
things, and it wasn't the end ofthe world if it didn't work.
So I definitely did learn somegratitude, because I still
wanted to live and I felt like Icould probably do that if I
stayed away from the wrong guysand worked a little more on
(13:02):
finding a life on my own.
Daniela (13:03):
Yes, I find it interesting what you said.
You knew that you were a strongwoman and that you can stand on
your own, but you felt that youwere looking for that love.
You still needed that.
Debbie Weiss (13:13):
Well, no, I did it first.
I wanted that.
It was very hard to be aloneall the time, and another reason
I got therapy was also I hadPTSD because you know, when
George was sick and in denial, Iwas his caregiver and that
didn't go so great and so I'dkeep seeing him.
You know how he looked at theend and I had a lot of guilt
over his death.
So I needed to fix that anddefinitely get rid of some of
(13:37):
that and be able to sleep againand function.
Daniela (13:40):
You always forget about the caregiver and you always
think that you can do it becauseyou are the wife or the partner
, but not necessarily alwaystrue.
Would you have changed anythingon that area?
Debbie Weiss (13:51):
I would have.
Yeah, I couldn't change Georgebeing in denial.
I wish I could have.
He didn't let me be involved inhis treatment or anything at
the hospital I discovered laterhe even asked the hospital not
to talk to me, even though I wasa competent person I'm a lawyer
, you know and I think, lookingway back, I would have gone
behind his back and I would havetalked to the hospital.
(14:12):
I would have said we have areal mental problem here and
this is impacting his care andthis is impacting his what's
left of his life.
And I, you know and I doubt hisjudgment, which I didn't then
he'd always been the one to makethe choices.
But, looking back, I would have.
I would have intervened at adifferent level and I might have
involved his parents.
He didn't want to, but they'regood people and they were strong
(14:34):
people and he loved.
They loved him.
Of course.
I think I would have gonebehind his back and given them
the chance to be with him andprobably ganged up on him with
them.
Daniela (14:43):
Huh, so you think that his behavior was for mental
issues?
Debbie Weiss (14:47):
I think so in retrospect I do.
I mean, he was fine.
It's just that it was so verysubtle, you know, at one point
he's fine, he's walking aroundor he's even wheelchair bound
and he's making very rationalthings.
He's saying no, I don't wantthis, I don't want that, we can
work on this, we can do that.
And Then from there, suddenlyhe seemed to not even suddenly
(15:08):
it just that just seemed to kindof morph into a denial.
It was almost kind of subtle.
You know, from I'm doing greatto I won't die, and that was
subtle.
Daniela (15:18):
Hmm, people wouldn't think that there is a mental
problem here, because it wouldsay, oh, it seems like an
optimistic, positive person,right, right?
Debbie Weiss (15:26):
Yeah, exactly, he's still taking care of things
.
He was still working, he wasinteracting great with the folks
at work.
If, when he spoke to hisparents, he was perfectly
pleasant, he just didn't talk tothem about being sick or let
them see him.
So he's wonderful to me, isloving, you know.
And he was sick, he'd say, okay, well, why don't you go out to
lunch, you know?
Why don't you go to school,friend, or go to lunch, or why
don't you go do this or do that?
(15:47):
What wasn't clear was we weren'tgetting any help and he was in
very bad shape and I was doinghis kind of medical kinds of
care at home and I wasn'ttrained to do that.
So that was scary, or he'd sendme out of the house and I think
, oh god, what if he falls?
Should he really be alone?
He was turning down outsidecare.
So, yeah, I don't think so.
I think we have such an idea Ithink it's particularly American
(16:07):
of you know, being the strongperson and doing things on your
own and being super positive,that on the surface, that looked
like the things he was doingand that his attitudes were good
or healthy.
Daniela (16:20):
Yes, it's interesting what you're saying.
I think people will hear theseand and maybe think twice when
the person is ill and how theybehave.
I had my uncle who was sick ofcancer and then my aunt and the
doctors didn't want to tell himthe truth that he was dying and
I always thought, well, that'sstrange.
Don't you want to know thateverybody has different
behaviors?
Debbie Weiss (16:40):
I think so.
I mean maybe like when you putsomebody in a situation that's
that hard that they've neverbeen in before you know
something.
It's like probably be dead inthree years.
Daniela (16:47):
I mean I think that maybe changes people's how they
think you don't know what's howthat's gonna affect you until it
happens, I guess this alsoshould come with therapy when
they tell you, okay, you'redying, you know, you know you
have three years or six monthsthat you get to talk to people,
some Experts, so that you canmake the best decisions, not
only for you but also for thepeople around you, because he
(17:09):
loved you, but was he thinkingabout how you were going to feel
or his parents were gonna feelafter he's gone?
People always think, okay, I'mthe one dying, so I'm the one
who has to make all thedecisions, but by the other
people.
That makes sense.
Debbie Weiss (17:21):
I'm guessing he was probably offered therapy at
the hospital but he turnedeverything down.
You know, when he was sick Idiscovered later he turned down
paleo-dive care.
He turned down any concept ofhospice.
The hospital had services andreferrals and things for home
care.
He turned all that down.
He didn't think we needed it.
I did towards the end I pushedhim and we got some home care,
(17:42):
but he turned everything down.
I'm guessing therapy had beenan option but that he turned it
down.
I did ultimately go for therapyafter he was diagnosed and then
again after he died, and howwas the therapy while he was
sick?
Daniela (17:56):
How did I help you when he was sick?
Debbie Weiss (17:58):
didn't use it much .
I tried to work with it.
To say he's a workaholic.
I want my time with him and Iwas scared.
Therapist was very nice, but Ididn't get any significant
takeaways after he was dead Igot a lot of very good takeaways
.
A lot of things started to makesense through therapy.
Daniela (18:15):
Okay, well, that's good .
I'm glad that you had the help.
Yeah, that helped a lot.
You went through therapy, hehelped you and you stopped going
to therapy or you continue.
Debbie Weiss (18:24):
I stopped after a while.
The problem is I had awonderful therapist but she
retired and I was stronger bythen he'd been gone, or over a
year and a half didn't findanother therapist I clicked with
.
You know, I never reallyclicked with anybody else,
except for this first therapist,who was amazing.
She'd give me little tasks,like she'd say you have to go to
something out of the house andyou have to tell people you're a
(18:45):
widow.
Or when I got in this badrelationship she said okay.
She said you know this isn'tyour problem.
She said you know you're avulnerable widow.
He came on to you, you didn't doanything wrong.
Or she said can't feel thatguilty.
You work with your feelingsabout George, but we're gonna
get through your guilt becausehe turned down all the outside
help.
You did the best you could andthose were the things that were
(19:06):
helpful.
I didn't find anybody else, butI really believe in therapy.
I mean, I'm in therapy now foranxiety and I'm functioning
quite well.
I just find it helpful.
Yes, something I've done on andoff over the years.
I think it's important, youknow, to see therapy is kind of
a wellness thing as opposed to,maybe, something you do in
crisis.
Daniela (19:24):
Therapies is like having a best friend, that
you're not boarding them withyour problems.
I don't feel that you shouldhave your friends and tell them
always your issues, because theyget tired and they have their
own right.
Well, the professionals knowhow to not take all your energy,
but help you and be helpful toyou, so I think that's better
right.
Debbie Weiss (19:45):
I think so too.
You know, with a friend oranybody, you tend to censor
yourself, and a therapist isn'tsomebody you socialize with and
you don't think of them judgingyou or looking at you in your
daily life.
So I think it's good to dosomething that's kind of outside
your circle, yes, and get kindof a more objective, maybe,
viewpoint.
Daniela (20:01):
Yes, now it's a bit more common and I'm glad that
people are using that to helpthemselves, because people don't
have to keep secrets orfeelings and you never know.
Sometimes you said, oh, I won'tgo, because I listened to Devi
and she had a harder time thanme when my dad passed away.
I didn't think anything of it,but I'm still kind of affected
(20:21):
by that time and if I talk aboutit was one of the most sad
times that I had.
I think it is important thatpeople talk about grief.
It's like if you lose a job, ifyou lose a partner, anything,
people don't touch the subject.
They don't say, hey, how areyou, how are you feeling?
Because they're afraid that thedrama or or to to be too
indiscreet, asking you questions.
Debbie Weiss (20:42):
I agree, people, they're really uncomfortable, at
least here.
People are very uncomfortablewith the concept of grief and I
think they're very uncomfortablewith seeing you unhappy or sad.
So they just want to hearyou're over it.
When I would go to things orI'd be like, oh, but you're over
it.
Or oh, but you're doing good,you're out of the house, so
you're doing good.
Oh, but you should be over it.
Or oh, but you have so much ofyour life ahead of you.
(21:03):
People always want to look onthe positive side.
You can be positive in thesense that this person left you
with wonderful memories and youstill have a lot of wonderful
life ahead.
But it's still sad and I thinkpeople don't.
They don't like to talk aboutgrief and they don't like to
hear that you're not doing great.
It makes them uncomfortable.
Daniela (21:20):
What do you suggest that people can say?
Debbie Weiss (21:22):
Well, I mean, for one thing, they cannot gloss it
over.
I mean not this sense of oh,but you're doing great.
I'm sorry for your loss, that Ican't imagine what that's like.
And if they can share a memoryof the person who died, tell
them a good story, you know, saysomething positive, like I
remember when this person didthis for me, or they did that,
or I'll always remember that.
(21:43):
So you feel like they made apositive impact and they were
loved and that they live on inpeople, and I think that's
that's the most helpful.
But, you know, not demandingthis kind of false cheerfulness.
Daniela (21:56):
Yes, and I'm glad you said that because he's through a
friend of ours from school.
He passed away two years agoand the first thing I said oh
you know, I'm going to text hisdaughter and say you remember
this from your father?
And she was so grateful and Ithink this is true.
You can say sorry for your lossto share a story.
That's a very good point.
Thank you for saying that.
Debbie Weiss (22:17):
That helped me.
You know George's colleagues atwork.
They gave me some letters andemails with good memories of him
and that was really.
That was really great.
I appreciated that.
Daniela (22:27):
Yes, it has been many years now.
It's been 10 years, 10 yearsand you have been taking care of
yourself.
Yeah, do you feel that timeheals?
Debbie Weiss (22:37):
Yes, I do.
You don't forget the person,you don't stop loving them.
That really sharp pain, youknow, when you have that kind of
a loss you probably have thiswith your dad it feels physical,
right.
You feel kind of wounded.
You're going about youractivities but you feel just
this pain at least I did.
I mean it was everywhere.
It was like my heart hurt, myhead hurt, everything, and I
(22:58):
felt kind of weakened, like Ihad this huge blow and that goes
away.
Other things that helped me was, you know, all that venturing
out eventually led to someactivities I loved and making
some friends and getting someconnections.
And then ultimately, you know,I've been with someone now for
five years and I moved to a newhome and a place that I love.
That helped, you know, makingchanges in time helped a great
(23:21):
deal.
Daniela (23:22):
You said to me when we met the first time that it was
maybe not so positive that youwere so close with your husband
all the time that you were yourown little world.
That's true.
Debbie Weiss (23:33):
I was so very alone, you know, I didn't have
friends, I didn't have people toreach out to and more than that
, you know, when we were livingtogether I mean that was our
lives and it made sense to meand I'd always been pretty
driven I went to college and Iwent to law school.
Then, you know, I practiced lawfor 11 years and then I retired
and I was just with George andhe was very high energy and we
sort of did everything that hewanted to do.
(23:54):
He worked from home some days.
Those days we'd hang out, youknow, we would have dinner every
night.
But I never really did developa lot of my own interests after
I quit practicing law and Ididn't make my own friends or
have my own connections.
And I think I don't have anyregrets.
But these are all kinds ofthings I could have done when I
was still married and I couldhave had a life where I followed
(24:17):
my passions more when I wasstill married and I think that's
important.
There was no need to be thatisolated.
Daniela (24:23):
Have you met any other women similar to your situation,
that they were so one smallworld with their husband or
partners?
Debbie Weiss (24:30):
I've met a few who were widowed.
They generally had more friendsand most of them had children,
so they have more of a networkand they also have more of a
reason, I think, to keep ittogether.
But I certainly have met somewomen who married their one and
only the ones they loved andwere together for many, many
years.
Without their partner.
They're just really devastated.
(24:51):
Most of these women I knowhaven't dated again and they
just have a life and they'reresilient, wonderful people,
strong people, but they justhave had a life that's more with
friends and with their childrenand they haven't really looked
to another partner Debbie,during these 10 years, when you
said you have a partner now forthe last five, but the first
five years were you going alwaysup, up up in improving.
Daniela (25:14):
or you had days that you would go up and down, or
months that you were not welland other months that you were
really well.
How was the path?
Debbie Weiss (25:23):
I would say weeks here and there.
Yeah, people say grief isn'tlinear and they're right.
They'll show, like I thinkyou've probably seen, the image
for grieving.
It's a ball of yarn and it'sall kinked up in places and
sometimes it's unruling nicelyand sometimes it's all kinked up
and tangled and I had timeslike that.
I got in a bad relationship fora while but at the same time I
(25:47):
was getting essays published,doing new things with writing.
The good part was the writing,the bad was this crummy
relationship, or I'd have asetback or I'd feel sad and
maybe I'd spend a few dayswatching movies and hanging out,
but then I'd have weeks thatwere very good, with groups that
I was involved in or writing orfriends.
(26:10):
So yeah, there were definitelyups and downs and there were
times I felt that I was living agood life, taking care of
myself and moving forwardtowards things that I might want
, and other times I felt likethis was just really crappy
without George.
How did you meet your newpartner?
We met online.
It was actually at a low point.
I just had kind of a crummybreakup, but I was pretty
(26:31):
independent At that point.
I was going to start school.
I went back to college so I wasgoing to get a master's.
When I met him, I was set to dosome traveling by myself with a
tour group.
I didn't have people to travelwith.
I toured with my universityalumni association.
I had big trips set up.
I got this note, one of myprofile pictures on the dating
app.
I was standing against a carand I had these tennis shoes on.
(26:54):
They're like slip on, like vansand they had skulls on them.
I really like those tennisshoes you're wearing in that
picture.
Are those vans with skulls?
Yes, they are.
And he said I kind of want toget a pair.
What do you think?
And we started talking fromthere.
From there we texted and hesent me pictures and we met for
tea.
Daniela (27:12):
Very clever, very clever, focusing on something
else.
And so what, the masters, wereyou doing?
I did a.
Debbie Weiss (27:19):
It's called an MFA and it's a master's of fine
arts.
You can get it in music ordance or anything, and I got
mine in creative writing.
Daniela (27:27):
Oh, I see Wonderful, wonderful.
Okay, so you had a during thesefive years that you've been
with your new partner.
Do you still have sad momentsor guilty moments because of
George?
Debbie Weiss (27:39):
I don't really feel guilty anymore.
I feel like I've gotten throughthat.
I still occasionally do.
I wish I'd been a bettercaregiver and I wish I'd been
calmer.
So I still have to go throughthat sometimes and think about
it and kind of remind myself hey, you didn't.
You know, you did the best youcould.
This happens to a lot of peopleStill feel a little sad
sometimes because George's lifewas cut short.
Overall I'm pretty happy.
(28:00):
And my new partner he never,obviously met George, but we
both love George.
We think of him as an absentfriend.
George really liked desserts so, like on his birthday, we'll go
to this restaurant we like andget this ice cream, this big ice
cream Sunday.
It's pretty discussed, it'senormous, and we'll say well,
that's for George.
You know, we'll share the icecream Sunday at George's
birthday.
Daniela (28:21):
That's very nice.
Actually, that's very nice.
We talk about him.
Debbie Weiss (28:24):
You know I still talk.
I talk about him a lot.
I think that's another problemsometimes is people don't like
hearing about people who diedbecause they think you're going
to cry or get upset.
But if this person was yourlife, you're going to talk about
them because they were a big,huge part of your life.
Daniela (28:37):
That's true.
That's a very good point.
You did the masters in creatingwriting.
So what happened?
You wrote a book.
Debbie Weiss (28:44):
I wrote a book, yeah, yeah, you know, one thing
that really saved me when Georgedied was returning to my
writing.
I took a weekly class withadult education and I got into a
writing group with somewonderful people and we meet
every week and share our writingand those people are really
good friends and I got moreserious and I got some things
published.
From there I started to write abook and I realized I didn't
(29:05):
know how to write a book.
I'm an ex lawyer.
It's very it's easy to write A1500 word essay is one thing, or
2500 words, but a whole bookthat you want to read like a
real book, right, not like a kidwrote it or whatever is hard.
So, yeah, I hired aprofessional editor and I went
back to school and got the MFA.
(29:26):
And what is your book about?
Well, my book is calledAvailable, as Is A Midlife
Widow's Search for Love, andit's a memoir.
It's about losing George andcreating a life on my own after
essentially being a child for 32years.
A child, well, kind of a child,because I never lived on my own
.
You know George took care ofeverything and I'd never dated.
(29:47):
You know I hadn't.
I only dated when I was in highschool.
George was my one and only andhe took care of the finances and
he decided what we were goingto do, kind of like, what was it
like to wake up at 49 and tryto create a new life?
Wow, we just did everythingtogether.
So I never had to make friendsand go play with the other
children or whatever.
(30:07):
So you know, at that point itwas, I mean, it was kind of like
being young again, because itwas like, well, what do I want
to do and who do I want to hang?
Daniela (30:15):
out with.
Yeah, and why did you stopworking Practicing law?
I quit at 40.
Debbie Weiss (30:21):
It was extremely stressful.
I worked at a conventional lawfirm.
We built in six minuteincrements which we filled out
in time sheets which were likegrids.
I started to see those in mydreams, nightmares, and it was
very stressful.
It was very much.
You know, how many hours canyou put in?
Having a balanced life was outof the question.
This was in the late 1990s andI started in the 80s and it was
(30:45):
very sexist.
It wasn't a very welcomingenvironment for a woman and it
was hard to get your voice heard.
Daniela (30:51):
Huh, interesting, and so I guess writing you get your
voice heard.
Debbie Weiss (30:55):
I do, yeah, I do Now.
It's not like going to courtand it's not like I necessarily
have an audience, but I do havea voice at this point.
Daniela (31:05):
You do have an audience , it's funny, and so you wrote
this book and it's just awonderful book to help others.
Are you planning to have otherthings that you're going to
write, or Well?
Debbie Weiss (31:17):
I've written some essays and things in support of
the book.
Two weeks ago I had an essay inthe Huffington Post Personals.
That was fun.
I'm doing writing and guestposts in support of the book.
The next thing I might do twothings.
I'd like to write about myfather, because he's 93 and he's
at a very interesting life as anuclear physicist.
Oh, wow, yeah, he was.
(31:37):
Yeah, he's a couple generationsmaybe later than the Manhattan
Project and he's I mean, it'ssomeone who thinks in terms of
quantum physics is aninteresting person and he was an
amazing person.
You know, my mom died when Iwas 10 and he raised me on his
own as a single parent, and hecertainly wasn't his generation
to do that.
No, that's true.
So I probably write about himbecause he's pretty remarkable.
(32:00):
And the other thing I might dois try to turn my book into
something else, a screenplay orsomething for fun.
Daniela (32:07):
Oh, yes, that's true, that's true, and you're that and
you can record stories from him.
Debbie Weiss (32:13):
Yeah, I would like to have some some things to
remember him by at this point.
Daniela (32:17):
Yes, david, anything else that you are interested on
studying, doing, because youstill have a whole life in front
of you.
Debbie Weiss (32:24):
Well, I'm looking from, like I said, my next
writing project, like that'sgoing to be.
I'm a big hiker so I do that.
I'm thinking of doing yogateacher training just for fun.
I don't think I want to get anymore graduate degrees at this
point, but you know I've beenputting a lot of effort into
promoting the book.
So I'm kind of at a juncturehere of you know what's next.
Daniela (32:45):
Yes, Good, good, wonderful.
And what is your goal?
Debbie Weiss (32:49):
I want to offer hope.
You know that sometimes thingsyou have a devastating loss and
you think life is terrible andyou don't know if you want to go
on.
But if you can make it throughthat part and just take a few
little steps, you can start tomove forward and they can start
to add up.
Daniela (33:04):
I know, do you ever thought about losing your
husband?
Because for me, maybe because Ilost my dad is a very scary
thought, like I always think,okay, I have to do everything
with him now, because, oh my God, what if I lose him?
Debbie Weiss (33:18):
I feel that way about my current partner.
We both do.
Yeah, my current partner, whenwe first got together, he'd lost
his mom nine months before andhe was very sad about that.
His parents are both gone andhe misses them.
You know, I'm aware that mydad's 93 and after losing George
and my mom's so young yeah,we're both very aware of that
and thinking well, we want tolive, well, we want to.
You know, we don't want to haveregrets, we want to make sure
(33:40):
to spend time together andalways be kind to each other.
Daniela (33:43):
Yeah, not a fun feeling , I have to say Not a fun
feeling.
Debbie Weiss (33:48):
No, it isn't fun.
Like someone like me, withanxiety, we both kind of go
through.
Well, how much do I want to doso I don't have any regrets.
But how safe do I want to feelbecause we're more mortal?
Daniela (34:00):
Right, talk about joyful things and just try to
remember and try not to avoidthe question what about you
meeting people that have thesame situation as you but they
cannot lift their head up?
Debbie Weiss (34:13):
People contact me through I8 or Facebook.
You know they just livedifferently.
Maybe what their new life, whattheir life with their husband
is like, isn't big but theystill love it.
You know they have a group offriends.
Maybe they knit with or theygarden with and they don't want
to date again and that's finetoo.
You know I meet a lot of womenwho are like I've done that, I'm
finished, I don't want anymore.
(34:34):
They call men children.
I've raised a child, you know.
I've raised a man done with.
You know, done with lookingafter people and some people I
see they just have quieter livesor they travel in groups.
But I do get notes from folkswho aren't okay or not feeling
okay, and those are usuallyabout two years out, one or two
years out.
You know I think some peopleare sad, though I see they're
(34:55):
not happy and I don't know howto work with that.
Some people, I know, want to bepartnered again.
Then they don't find the rightperson or life just doesn't feel
very enjoyable without theirpartner.
Daniela (35:07):
Well, I'm glad you have any experiences or people
reaching out from your book,being grateful also that you
wrote the book and make themconnect and relate.
Debbie Weiss (35:15):
I hope so.
Yeah, I'm always grateful whensomeone reaches out to me, just
and I answer everybody peoplewho are sad or something that's
that's what I do.
Anybody's listening and theywant to reach out and tell me
their story, I will email back.
It'll take me a little bit, butI do.
Daniela (35:30):
Wonderful, wonderful.
So, debbie, thank you so muchfor sharing your story and being
so vulnerable.
I really appreciate that.
You told us all kinds ofnuggets.
That is making me richer and Ithink he's going to help a lot
of people too.
So, thank you no, I hope so.
Thank you so much.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.
I am Daniela and you werelistening to, because everyone
(35:51):
has a story.
Please take five seconds rightnow and think of somebody in
your life that may enjoy whatyou just heard, or someone that
has a story to be shared andpreserved.
When you think of that person,shoot them a text with the link
of this podcast.
This will allow the ordinarymagic to go further.
Join me next time for anotherstory conversation.
(36:13):
Thank you for listening.
Hasta pronto.
Hi, I'm Daniela.
Welcome to my podcast, becauseeveryone has a story, the place
to give ordinary people, stories, the chance to be shared and
preserved.
Our stories become the languageof connections.
Let's enjoy it, connect andrelate, because everyone has a
story.
Welcome.
(00:31):
My guest is Debbie Weiss.
Debbie is a former attorney whoearned her MFA in creative
writing at 56.
After losing her high schoolsweetheart and husband of 32
years, george, debbie turned towriting as she lived alone and
single for the first time.
How would you navigate throughthe wilderness of grief,
(00:55):
discover a new version ofyourself and perhaps find love
again after losing a lifepartner, or find hope again or
motivation to continue?
Debbie has walked the path andshares her journey and candid
reflections with us.
Her openness and vulnerabilityencouraged me to listen and
(01:17):
connect even deeper as sheteaches that loss, and I thought
this was fascinating.
It's not the end, but a part oflife journey.
I find that grief is a complexemotion that we all experience
in one way or another.
Sometimes we use differentnames, like nostalgia or
(01:38):
reminiscence.
We could have grief for timesthat have passed, for people
that have passed, for situationsthat have passed, and we all
react in different ways,different times.
It is not predictable.
Let's enjoy Debbie's story ofgreat insights.
Welcome, debbie, to the show.
Thank you for being here.
(01:59):
Thank you for having me.
Daniela, yes, and I know youhave a story, an interesting
story.
Why do you want to share yourstory?
Debbie Weiss (02:07):
Well, my story is about recovering after loss,
after losing my husband of 32years and trying to make a new
life.
I want to share my story incase it helps other people
who've suffered a loss and havea really hard time getting over
their grief.
Daniela (02:20):
Yes, and thank you for that, because, it's true, some
of the people usually don't hearmuch, but I appreciate you
bringing it here.
Thank you.
So, debbie, when does yourstory start?
Debbie Weiss (02:29):
Well, my story probably starts when I was seven
years old.
My dad worked with a woman whohad a cute 11-year-old son, and
I met him.
His name was George.
My dad and George's mom wereboth scientists.
Over the years, we got throwntogether.
We started dating when I was 17.
I was a junior in high schooland he was 21.
He was an engineering major atUC Berkeley.
(02:50):
That's where we met and then westarted dating and we were
together for 32 years.
I went to law school.
We were pretty happy and then,well, our story changed in 2013
because he passed away fromcancer.
Daniela (03:03):
But Debbie Daniela is more than 30 years.
I mean, you knew him from whenhe was seven and then 17.
Debbie Weiss (03:10):
Yeah, I started dating when we were 17.
So we had 32 years together asa couple, but I'd known him for
42 years of my life.
Daniela (03:17):
Wow, yes, very well, he's like really soulmate I
thought, so I felt like it.
Debbie Weiss (03:22):
It definitely felt like it.
Daniela (03:24):
Wow, that sounds so sweet.
So you were enjoying life andcertainly he got sick.
Debbie Weiss (03:30):
Yeah, it wasn't too sudden.
In 2009 he was diagnosed withcancer and we had a few good
years.
He kept working.
He was a workaholic.
Sadly, he kept working as anengineer.
I'd retired by then.
I was a lawyer and I putpracticing about 10 years before
, and then we just kind of wenton to our life until he started
to decline In mid-2012, itreally hit him.
Daniela (03:52):
So when he knew that he was sick, he wasn't the kind of
person who decided, okay, I'mgoing to change my life.
He just kept everything thesame as he was.
Debbie Weiss (03:59):
That's very true.
He was not going to change hislife.
He was going to keep working.
He coded a financial productcalled a software program called
Quicken and he was going tomake the best Quicken imaginable
and he was going to not let hiscolleagues down.
He was a wonderful mentor toother engineers.
He was a homebody.
He wanted to keep cooking.
The one thing he didn't want todo was have this control his
(04:20):
life.
So he kind of treated it likeanother part of his job, a bad
part.
Daniela (04:26):
Wow, interesting.
So I guess his life, and withyou it was such a beautiful life
.
Okay, I'm sick, but there isnothing I need to change because
everything that is happening isokay in my life.
Debbie Weiss (04:37):
I think he felt that way.
I like to think he felt thatway.
The bad way to look at it washe was a workaholic and that
wasn't going to change.
But I also think he was happywith the way he lived.
We loved to cook, we werehomebodies, we cooked a lot.
We shopped a lot foringredients.
He had a little sports car.
He was an engineer.
We drive around fast and buyingredients and make these
dinners and I think he was happydoing that.
(05:00):
I don't think he wanted tochange anything, but I also
think at some level he didn'tbelieve he was dying.
I think he believed he wasgoing to live for a long life.
And what about you?
Oh, I was worried.
I have anxiety already and Ithought maybe we would want to
do some different things.
I thought he might want to takesome time off work and have
(05:22):
some more time together, maybetravel a bit.
Before things got worse, he hadchemo every three weeks, so
that was a limitation, but Ithought we might want to do that
and kind of I don't know what,what do you do?
Take photographs, write thingsdown, maybe look at our lives as
finite.
But that wasn't something hewanted.
He was a stronger personalitythan I did.
(05:43):
Now my personality is verystrong, but then it wasn't so
strong.
Been in this relationship sinceI was 17,.
Since high school we just kindof did kind of let him decide
how we wanted to live.
Daniela (05:54):
It is interesting because you will say what is his
life?
He has to decide.
However, he's gone, but you areleft.
I think the people who staybehind are the ones who are
affected.
We always think about theperson who's dying, but never
the person who's staying.
Debbie Weiss (06:09):
That's a really good point.
I completely agree.
It was terribly sad when he wasgone.
But yeah, then you're left.
I mean I was when he died I was49.
So I still had a lot of my lifeleft.
I was overcome with grief.
I felt very guilty.
George had been in denial abouthaving cancer so he never
thought he was dying.
At the end his mind did someweird trick and he thought he
(06:30):
was getting better.
So we never had a real goodbye.
He didn't involve his parents,which was very hard for me and,
of course, for them.
So yeah, he was gone and I waslike, well, I still have this
life left, but what do I?
Daniela (06:45):
do?
Yes, what do you do?
Because you've been living withhim for so long and he was your
soulmate, and now you're onyour own.
Exactly, yep, that was exactlyit.
I guess.
What happens at the beginningWere you grieving first and then
, after you start to realizeabout you.
Debbie Weiss (07:02):
Well, I'm an ex-lawyer, so I kind of went
into two modes.
I got really organized.
During the day I was veryorganized and I had lists of
things to do.
You know, our home was in verybad shape because he'd been had
cancer for a while and we'd putall that on the back burner.
So I got really efficient.
I kind of blocked things out,did all the paperwork and
straightened up our house anddid all this stuff.
(07:23):
But at night I was all aloneand it was a small house but it
felt really empty and reallyquiet.
At night I would just listen tomusic, listen to his favorite
records, eat a turntable anddrink bourbon.
I drink Manhattan's.
It's kind of spaced out.
Daniela (07:40):
It felt very lost, then I can imagine how it is.
You know, when my dad passedaway which he was my best friend
I was studying law and I gotreally efficient my mom wasn't
there.
These decisions that I had tomake and I was very cold took me
a long time before I started tocry.
It was like about five monthsthat it hit me and I was really
(08:03):
sad At the beginning.
These five months I was likedoing, doing, doing so.
It's interesting that you weredoing that too.
Debbie Weiss (08:09):
Yeah, I was.
I was.
I just tried to look at it verypractically like well, how are
my finances?
What do I need to do to thehouse?
You know, the bathroom wasleaking into the dining room.
How am I going to forget this?
Straightened out and I wasn'treally thinking well about how
sad I was and how much I missedhim.
I'd lost my mom when I was 10,so those feelings did start to
(08:30):
creep back in, no loss before ittook a while before, you know,
it felt like armor.
You know, I think maybe we kindof go into a mode where we're a
little bit armor.
Daniela (08:40):
And you said you fell alone.
Did you have people around you?
Not?
Debbie Weiss (08:43):
so much.
You know I don't have kids andGeorge and I were real isolated.
We didn't have close friends.
You know we had acquaintances.
My dad was in his mid 80s thenand he had some health problems
and, as is my stepmom, I'm anonly child, george was an only
child.
I didn't have people around me.
You know I would go visit mydad nearby, I'd visit him a lot
of the days and, just you know,sit and hang out with them, but
(09:05):
they had their own healthproblems so they couldn't really
help me.
So how do you help yourself?
Eventually I got things in orderand I realized, you know, I
kind of got out of fight orflight mode, that real organized
kind of thing, and things weredone and I looked around and it
was like, okay, there's nothing,there's no real crises right
now, and I just started doingthings I used to do.
(09:26):
I started taking long walksagain.
I joined a yoga studio.
I went back into writing.
That really helped me.
I used to take a weekly writingclass before George got sick
and I went back to the writingclass and just kind of joined a
bunch of groups to try to meetpeople and to get out of the
house and to talk to people thatfelt real different to me.
(09:48):
I felt so isolated.
I was like trying tore-socialize myself.
Daniela (09:53):
And how was that in different times?
How was that?
Debbie Weiss (09:56):
Well, some of it was good and some of it wasn't.
Going to the local rotary clubprobably wasn't.
For me, it's very conservative.
I joined a car club becauseGeorge had this car and the
people were really nice.
But I'm not really a car person.
But we had breakfast Saturdaymornings and it was nice.
People were very nice.
Some of them had known us as acouple and it was nice to have
(10:16):
people hang out with.
And then the yoga studio hadsome really friendly women and I
went to evening classes andthat broke up the nights because
I wasn't just alone all thetime.
Writing took a lot of time andI made friends and joined a
writing group and that turnedinto a much larger thing.
Things started to feel a littlebit better that way.
Daniela (10:35):
You had a feeling, an interesting or different feeling
, because you felt well, I am awidow, so perhaps I don't know.
You had some kind of story thatyou told in your head.
Debbie Weiss (10:45):
Well, I told myself, I was pulled together.
I was very conscientious, I hadthe right makeup and I made
sure George's sports car waswashed.
I didn't want to look pathetic.
I had little coordinatedoutfits.
I didn't realize it.
People thought I lookedterrific, but I was way too thin
because I wasn't really eating.
I was so amped up and I had astory in my head that I'd had a
(11:08):
good life with my late husbandand now I was venturing out and
I was fine.
I think I pulled it off, butinwardly I wasn't really fine
and I felt very, very lonely andbereft and kind of lost.
Why am I here?
Why?
Daniela (11:26):
am I still here?
I can imagine Wow.
And this is how, many monthsafter.
Debbie Weiss (11:30):
Probably six months.
Daniela (11:31):
So six months you're feeling like that and what
happened?
Debbie Weiss (11:35):
Well, I got into a bad relationship that wasn't so
brilliant when a George'sformer caregivers.
We started out as friends andthen it got a little crazy.
At first it was fun.
He was really into cinema andwe went to all these film
festivals and I live in thislittle lived in this suburban
town.
That was pretty boring and we'dgo to the city and we'd go out
and we both loved eating theseburgers and milkshakes and it
(11:58):
was kind of a lot of fun.
But ultimately he got kind ofcontrolling and I realized that
I shouldn't have been in arelationship anyway and this was
not a good relationship, ahealthy relationship ultimately.
So I had to break away fromthat?
Daniela (12:12):
What did you learn besides that?
You already knew that, becausethat's the way you are.
Did it help?
Debbie Weiss (12:17):
Well, it all made me grow.
Even the bad relationship mademe realize that I had to be
stronger and I had to learn tostand on my own.
I got into therapy after thatbecause I realized I needed help
to learn to stand on my own.
But I also learned I had thecapacity to love again, that I
could feel passion and love andthat ultimately that was
something I was going to wantagain.
All the groups and things Ijoined I realized, you know, I
(12:39):
was fine, I wasn't that strangeor socially awkward.
I could join a group and Icould talk and I could try
things, and it wasn't the end ofthe world if it didn't work.
So I definitely did learn somegratitude, because I still
wanted to live and I felt like Icould probably do that if I
stayed away from the wrong guysand worked a little more on
(13:02):
finding a life on my own.
Daniela (13:03):
Yes, I find it interesting what you said.
You knew that you were a strongwoman and that you can stand on
your own, but you felt that youwere looking for that love.
You still needed that.
Debbie Weiss (13:13):
Well, no, I did it first.
I wanted that.
It was very hard to be aloneall the time, and another reason
I got therapy was also I hadPTSD because you know, when
George was sick and in denial, Iwas his caregiver and that
didn't go so great and so I'dkeep seeing him.
You know how he looked at theend and I had a lot of guilt
over his death.
So I needed to fix that anddefinitely get rid of some of
(13:37):
that and be able to sleep againand function.
Daniela (13:40):
You always forget about the caregiver and you always
think that you can do it becauseyou are the wife or the partner
, but not necessarily alwaystrue.
Would you have changed anythingon that area?
Debbie Weiss (13:51):
I would have.
Yeah, I couldn't change Georgebeing in denial.
I wish I could have.
He didn't let me be involved inhis treatment or anything at
the hospital I discovered laterhe even asked the hospital not
to talk to me, even though I wasa competent person I'm a lawyer
, you know and I think, lookingway back, I would have gone
behind his back and I would havetalked to the hospital.
(14:12):
I would have said we have areal mental problem here and
this is impacting his care andthis is impacting his what's
left of his life.
And I, you know and I doubt hisjudgment, which I didn't then
he'd always been the one to makethe choices.
But, looking back, I would have.
I would have intervened at adifferent level and I might have
involved his parents.
He didn't want to, but they'regood people and they were strong
(14:34):
people and he loved.
They loved him.
Of course.
I think I would have gonebehind his back and given them
the chance to be with him andprobably ganged up on him with
them.
Daniela (14:43):
Huh, so you think that his behavior was for mental
issues?
Debbie Weiss (14:47):
I think so in retrospect I do.
I mean, he was fine.
It's just that it was so verysubtle, you know, at one point
he's fine, he's walking aroundor he's even wheelchair bound
and he's making very rationalthings.
He's saying no, I don't wantthis, I don't want that, we can
work on this, we can do that.
And Then from there, suddenlyhe seemed to not even suddenly
(15:08):
it just that just seemed to kindof morph into a denial.
It was almost kind of subtle.
You know, from I'm doing greatto I won't die, and that was
subtle.
Daniela (15:18):
Hmm, people wouldn't think that there is a mental
problem here, because it wouldsay, oh, it seems like an
optimistic, positive person,right, right?
Debbie Weiss (15:26):
Yeah, exactly, he's still taking care of things
.
He was still working, he wasinteracting great with the folks
at work.
If, when he spoke to hisparents, he was perfectly
pleasant, he just didn't talk tothem about being sick or let
them see him.
So he's wonderful to me, isloving, you know.
And he was sick, he'd say, okay, well, why don't you go out to
lunch, you know?
Why don't you go to school,friend, or go to lunch, or why
don't you go do this or do that?
(15:47):
What wasn't clear was we weren'tgetting any help and he was in
very bad shape and I was doinghis kind of medical kinds of
care at home and I wasn'ttrained to do that.
So that was scary, or he'd sendme out of the house and I think
, oh god, what if he falls?
Should he really be alone?
He was turning down outsidecare.
So, yeah, I don't think so.
I think we have such an idea Ithink it's particularly American
(16:07):
of you know, being the strongperson and doing things on your
own and being super positive,that on the surface, that looked
like the things he was doingand that his attitudes were good
or healthy.
Daniela (16:20):
Yes, it's interesting what you're saying.
I think people will hear theseand and maybe think twice when
the person is ill and how theybehave.
I had my uncle who was sick ofcancer and then my aunt and the
doctors didn't want to tell himthe truth that he was dying and
I always thought, well, that'sstrange.
Don't you want to know thateverybody has different
behaviors?
Debbie Weiss (16:40):
I think so.
I mean maybe like when you putsomebody in a situation that's
that hard that they've neverbeen in before you know
something.
It's like probably be dead inthree years.
Daniela (16:47):
I mean I think that maybe changes people's how they
think you don't know what's howthat's gonna affect you until it
happens, I guess this alsoshould come with therapy when
they tell you, okay, you'redying, you know, you know you
have three years or six monthsthat you get to talk to people,
some Experts, so that you canmake the best decisions, not
only for you but also for thepeople around you, because he
(17:09):
loved you, but was he thinkingabout how you were going to feel
or his parents were gonna feelafter he's gone?
People always think, okay, I'mthe one dying, so I'm the one
who has to make all thedecisions, but by the other
people.
That makes sense.
Debbie Weiss (17:21):
I'm guessing he was probably offered therapy at
the hospital but he turnedeverything down.
You know, when he was sick Idiscovered later he turned down
paleo-dive care.
He turned down any concept ofhospice.
The hospital had services andreferrals and things for home
care.
He turned all that down.
He didn't think we needed it.
I did towards the end I pushedhim and we got some home care,
(17:42):
but he turned everything down.
I'm guessing therapy had beenan option but that he turned it
down.
I did ultimately go for therapyafter he was diagnosed and then
again after he died, and howwas the therapy while he was
sick?
Daniela (17:56):
How did I help you when he was sick?
Debbie Weiss (17:58):
didn't use it much .
I tried to work with it.
To say he's a workaholic.
I want my time with him and Iwas scared.
Therapist was very nice, but Ididn't get any significant
takeaways after he was dead Igot a lot of very good takeaways
.
A lot of things started to makesense through therapy.
Daniela (18:15):
Okay, well, that's good .
I'm glad that you had the help.
Yeah, that helped a lot.
You went through therapy, hehelped you and you stopped going
to therapy or you continue.
Debbie Weiss (18:24):
I stopped after a while.
The problem is I had awonderful therapist but she
retired and I was stronger bythen he'd been gone, or over a
year and a half didn't findanother therapist I clicked with
.
You know, I never reallyclicked with anybody else,
except for this first therapist,who was amazing.
She'd give me little tasks,like she'd say you have to go to
something out of the house andyou have to tell people you're a
(18:45):
widow.
Or when I got in this badrelationship she said okay.
She said you know this isn'tyour problem.
She said you know you're avulnerable widow.
He came on to you, you didn't doanything wrong.
Or she said can't feel thatguilty.
You work with your feelingsabout George, but we're gonna
get through your guilt becausehe turned down all the outside
help.
You did the best you could andthose were the things that were
(19:06):
helpful.
I didn't find anybody else, butI really believe in therapy.
I mean, I'm in therapy now foranxiety and I'm functioning
quite well.
I just find it helpful.
Yes, something I've done on andoff over the years.
I think it's important, youknow, to see therapy is kind of
a wellness thing as opposed to,maybe, something you do in
crisis.
Daniela (19:24):
Therapies is like having a best friend, that
you're not boarding them withyour problems.
I don't feel that you shouldhave your friends and tell them
always your issues, because theyget tired and they have their
own right.
Well, the professionals knowhow to not take all your energy,
but help you and be helpful toyou, so I think that's better
right.
Debbie Weiss (19:45):
I think so too.
You know, with a friend oranybody, you tend to censor
yourself, and a therapist isn'tsomebody you socialize with and
you don't think of them judgingyou or looking at you in your
daily life.
So I think it's good to dosomething that's kind of outside
your circle, yes, and get kindof a more objective, maybe,
viewpoint.
Daniela (20:01):
Yes, now it's a bit more common and I'm glad that
people are using that to helpthemselves, because people don't
have to keep secrets orfeelings and you never know.
Sometimes you said, oh, I won'tgo, because I listened to Devi
and she had a harder time thanme when my dad passed away.
I didn't think anything of it,but I'm still kind of affected
(20:21):
by that time and if I talk aboutit was one of the most sad
times that I had.
I think it is important thatpeople talk about grief.
It's like if you lose a job, ifyou lose a partner, anything,
people don't touch the subject.
They don't say, hey, how areyou, how are you feeling?
Because they're afraid that thedrama or or to to be too
indiscreet, asking you questions.
Debbie Weiss (20:42):
I agree, people, they're really uncomfortable, at
least here.
People are very uncomfortablewith the concept of grief and I
think they're very uncomfortablewith seeing you unhappy or sad.
So they just want to hearyou're over it.
When I would go to things orI'd be like, oh, but you're over
it.
Or oh, but you're doing good,you're out of the house, so
you're doing good.
Oh, but you should be over it.
Or oh, but you have so much ofyour life ahead of you.
(21:03):
People always want to look onthe positive side.
You can be positive in thesense that this person left you
with wonderful memories and youstill have a lot of wonderful
life ahead.
But it's still sad and I thinkpeople don't.
They don't like to talk aboutgrief and they don't like to
hear that you're not doing great.
It makes them uncomfortable.
Daniela (21:20):
What do you suggest that people can say?
Debbie Weiss (21:22):
Well, I mean, for one thing, they cannot gloss it
over.
I mean not this sense of oh,but you're doing great.
I'm sorry for your loss, that Ican't imagine what that's like.
And if they can share a memoryof the person who died, tell
them a good story, you know, saysomething positive, like I
remember when this person didthis for me, or they did that,
or I'll always remember that.
(21:43):
So you feel like they made apositive impact and they were
loved and that they live on inpeople, and I think that's
that's the most helpful.
But, you know, not demandingthis kind of false cheerfulness.
Daniela (21:56):
Yes, and I'm glad you said that because he's through a
friend of ours from school.
He passed away two years agoand the first thing I said oh
you know, I'm going to text hisdaughter and say you remember
this from your father?
And she was so grateful and Ithink this is true.
You can say sorry for your lossto share a story.
That's a very good point.
Thank you for saying that.
Debbie Weiss (22:17):
That helped me.
You know George's colleagues atwork.
They gave me some letters andemails with good memories of him
and that was really.
That was really great.
I appreciated that.
Daniela (22:27):
Yes, it has been many years now.
It's been 10 years, 10 yearsand you have been taking care of
yourself.
Yeah, do you feel that timeheals?
Debbie Weiss (22:37):
Yes, I do.
You don't forget the person,you don't stop loving them.
That really sharp pain, youknow, when you have that kind of
a loss you probably have thiswith your dad it feels physical,
right.
You feel kind of wounded.
You're going about youractivities but you feel just
this pain at least I did.
I mean it was everywhere.
It was like my heart hurt, myhead hurt, everything, and I
(22:58):
felt kind of weakened, like Ihad this huge blow and that goes
away.
Other things that helped me was, you know, all that venturing
out eventually led to someactivities I loved and making
some friends and getting someconnections.
And then ultimately, you know,I've been with someone now for
five years and I moved to a newhome and a place that I love.
That helped, you know, makingchanges in time helped a great
(23:21):
deal.
Daniela (23:22):
You said to me when we met the first time that it was
maybe not so positive that youwere so close with your husband
all the time that you were yourown little world.
That's true.
Debbie Weiss (23:33):
I was so very alone, you know, I didn't have
friends, I didn't have people toreach out to and more than that
, you know, when we were livingtogether I mean that was our
lives and it made sense to meand I'd always been pretty
driven I went to college and Iwent to law school.
Then, you know, I practiced lawfor 11 years and then I retired
and I was just with George andhe was very high energy and we
sort of did everything that hewanted to do.
(23:54):
He worked from home some days.
Those days we'd hang out, youknow, we would have dinner every
night.
But I never really did developa lot of my own interests after
I quit practicing law and Ididn't make my own friends or
have my own connections.
And I think I don't have anyregrets.
But these are all kinds ofthings I could have done when I
was still married and I couldhave had a life where I followed
(24:17):
my passions more when I wasstill married and I think that's
important.
There was no need to be thatisolated.
Daniela (24:23):
Have you met any other women similar to your situation,
that they were so one smallworld with their husband or
partners?
Debbie Weiss (24:30):
I've met a few who were widowed.
They generally had more friendsand most of them had children,
so they have more of a networkand they also have more of a
reason, I think, to keep ittogether.
But I certainly have met somewomen who married their one and
only the ones they loved andwere together for many, many
years.
Without their partner.
They're just really devastated.
(24:51):
Most of these women I knowhaven't dated again and they
just have a life and they'reresilient, wonderful people,
strong people, but they justhave had a life that's more with
friends and with their childrenand they haven't really looked
to another partner Debbie,during these 10 years, when you
said you have a partner now forthe last five, but the first
five years were you going alwaysup, up up in improving.
Daniela (25:14):
or you had days that you would go up and down, or
months that you were not welland other months that you were
really well.
How was the path?
Debbie Weiss (25:23):
I would say weeks here and there.
Yeah, people say grief isn'tlinear and they're right.
They'll show, like I thinkyou've probably seen, the image
for grieving.
It's a ball of yarn and it'sall kinked up in places and
sometimes it's unruling nicelyand sometimes it's all kinked up
and tangled and I had timeslike that.
I got in a bad relationship fora while but at the same time I
(25:47):
was getting essays published,doing new things with writing.
The good part was the writing,the bad was this crummy
relationship, or I'd have asetback or I'd feel sad and
maybe I'd spend a few dayswatching movies and hanging out,
but then I'd have weeks thatwere very good, with groups that
I was involved in or writing orfriends.
(26:10):
So yeah, there were definitelyups and downs and there were
times I felt that I was living agood life, taking care of
myself and moving forwardtowards things that I might want
, and other times I felt likethis was just really crappy
without George.
How did you meet your newpartner?
We met online.
It was actually at a low point.
I just had kind of a crummybreakup, but I was pretty
(26:31):
independent At that point.
I was going to start school.
I went back to college so I wasgoing to get a master's.
When I met him, I was set to dosome traveling by myself with a
tour group.
I didn't have people to travelwith.
I toured with my universityalumni association.
I had big trips set up.
I got this note, one of myprofile pictures on the dating
app.
I was standing against a carand I had these tennis shoes on.
(26:54):
They're like slip on, like vansand they had skulls on them.
I really like those tennisshoes you're wearing in that
picture.
Are those vans with skulls?
Yes, they are.
And he said I kind of want toget a pair.
What do you think?
And we started talking fromthere.
From there we texted and hesent me pictures and we met for
tea.
Daniela (27:12):
Very clever, very clever, focusing on something
else.
And so what, the masters, wereyou doing?
I did a.
Debbie Weiss (27:19):
It's called an MFA and it's a master's of fine
arts.
You can get it in music ordance or anything, and I got
mine in creative writing.
Daniela (27:27):
Oh, I see Wonderful, wonderful.
Okay, so you had a during thesefive years that you've been
with your new partner.
Do you still have sad momentsor guilty moments because of
George?
Debbie Weiss (27:39):
I don't really feel guilty anymore.
I feel like I've gotten throughthat.
I still occasionally do.
I wish I'd been a bettercaregiver and I wish I'd been
calmer.
So I still have to go throughthat sometimes and think about
it and kind of remind myself hey, you didn't.
You know, you did the best youcould.
This happens to a lot of peopleStill feel a little sad
sometimes because George's lifewas cut short.
Overall I'm pretty happy.
(28:00):
And my new partner he never,obviously met George, but we
both love George.
We think of him as an absentfriend.
George really liked desserts so, like on his birthday, we'll go
to this restaurant we like andget this ice cream, this big ice
cream Sunday.
It's pretty discussed, it'senormous, and we'll say well,
that's for George.
You know, we'll share the icecream Sunday at George's
birthday.
Daniela (28:21):
That's very nice.
Actually, that's very nice.
We talk about him.
Debbie Weiss (28:24):
You know I still talk.
I talk about him a lot.
I think that's another problemsometimes is people don't like
hearing about people who diedbecause they think you're going
to cry or get upset.
But if this person was yourlife, you're going to talk about
them because they were a big,huge part of your life.
Daniela (28:37):
That's true.
That's a very good point.
You did the masters in creatingwriting.
So what happened?
You wrote a book.
Debbie Weiss (28:44):
I wrote a book, yeah, yeah, you know, one thing
that really saved me when Georgedied was returning to my
writing.
I took a weekly class withadult education and I got into a
writing group with somewonderful people and we meet
every week and share our writingand those people are really
good friends and I got moreserious and I got some things
published.
From there I started to write abook and I realized I didn't
(29:05):
know how to write a book.
I'm an ex lawyer.
It's very it's easy to write A1500 word essay is one thing, or
2500 words, but a whole bookthat you want to read like a
real book, right, not like a kidwrote it or whatever is hard.
So, yeah, I hired aprofessional editor and I went
back to school and got the MFA.
(29:26):
And what is your book about?
Well, my book is calledAvailable, as Is A Midlife
Widow's Search for Love, andit's a memoir.
It's about losing George andcreating a life on my own after
essentially being a child for 32years.
A child, well, kind of a child,because I never lived on my own
.
You know George took care ofeverything and I'd never dated.
(29:47):
You know I hadn't.
I only dated when I was in highschool.
George was my one and only andhe took care of the finances and
he decided what we were goingto do, kind of like, what was it
like to wake up at 49 and tryto create a new life?
Wow, we just did everythingtogether.
So I never had to make friendsand go play with the other
children or whatever.
(30:07):
So you know, at that point itwas, I mean, it was kind of like
being young again, because itwas like, well, what do I want
to do and who do I want to hang?
Daniela (30:15):
out with.
Yeah, and why did you stopworking Practicing law?
I quit at 40.
Debbie Weiss (30:21):
It was extremely stressful.
I worked at a conventional lawfirm.
We built in six minuteincrements which we filled out
in time sheets which were likegrids.
I started to see those in mydreams, nightmares, and it was
very stressful.
It was very much.
You know, how many hours canyou put in?
Having a balanced life was outof the question.
This was in the late 1990s andI started in the 80s and it was
(30:45):
very sexist.
It wasn't a very welcomingenvironment for a woman and it
was hard to get your voice heard.
Daniela (30:51):
Huh, interesting, and so I guess writing you get your
voice heard.
Debbie Weiss (30:55):
I do, yeah, I do Now.
It's not like going to courtand it's not like I necessarily
have an audience, but I do havea voice at this point.
Daniela (31:05):
You do have an audience , it's funny, and so you wrote
this book and it's just awonderful book to help others.
Are you planning to have otherthings that you're going to
write, or Well?
Debbie Weiss (31:17):
I've written some essays and things in support of
the book.
Two weeks ago I had an essay inthe Huffington Post Personals.
That was fun.
I'm doing writing and guestposts in support of the book.
The next thing I might do twothings.
I'd like to write about myfather, because he's 93 and he's
at a very interesting life as anuclear physicist.
Oh, wow, yeah, he was.
(31:37):
Yeah, he's a couple generationsmaybe later than the Manhattan
Project and he's I mean, it'ssomeone who thinks in terms of
quantum physics is aninteresting person and he was an
amazing person.
You know, my mom died when Iwas 10 and he raised me on his
own as a single parent, and hecertainly wasn't his generation
to do that.
No, that's true.
So I probably write about himbecause he's pretty remarkable.
(32:00):
And the other thing I might dois try to turn my book into
something else, a screenplay orsomething for fun.
Daniela (32:07):
Oh, yes, that's true, that's true, and you're that and
you can record stories from him.
Debbie Weiss (32:13):
Yeah, I would like to have some some things to
remember him by at this point.
Daniela (32:17):
Yes, david, anything else that you are interested on
studying, doing, because youstill have a whole life in front
of you.
Debbie Weiss (32:24):
Well, I'm looking from, like I said, my next
writing project, like that'sgoing to be.
I'm a big hiker so I do that.
I'm thinking of doing yogateacher training just for fun.
I don't think I want to get anymore graduate degrees at this
point, but you know I've beenputting a lot of effort into
promoting the book.
So I'm kind of at a juncturehere of you know what's next.
Daniela (32:45):
Yes, Good, good, wonderful.
And what is your goal?
Debbie Weiss (32:49):
I want to offer hope.
You know that sometimes thingsyou have a devastating loss and
you think life is terrible andyou don't know if you want to go
on.
But if you can make it throughthat part and just take a few
little steps, you can start tomove forward and they can start
to add up.
Daniela (33:04):
I know, do you ever thought about losing your
husband?
Because for me, maybe because Ilost my dad is a very scary
thought, like I always think,okay, I have to do everything
with him now, because, oh my God, what if I lose him?
Debbie Weiss (33:18):
I feel that way about my current partner.
We both do.
Yeah, my current partner, whenwe first got together, he'd lost
his mom nine months before andhe was very sad about that.
His parents are both gone andhe misses them.
You know, I'm aware that mydad's 93 and after losing George
and my mom's so young yeah,we're both very aware of that
and thinking well, we want tolive, well, we want to.
You know, we don't want to haveregrets, we want to make sure
(33:40):
to spend time together andalways be kind to each other.
Daniela (33:43):
Yeah, not a fun feeling , I have to say Not a fun
feeling.
Debbie Weiss (33:48):
No, it isn't fun.
Like someone like me, withanxiety, we both kind of go
through.
Well, how much do I want to doso I don't have any regrets.
But how safe do I want to feelbecause we're more mortal?
Daniela (34:00):
Right, talk about joyful things and just try to
remember and try not to avoidthe question what about you
meeting people that have thesame situation as you but they
cannot lift their head up?
Debbie Weiss (34:13):
People contact me through I8 or Facebook.
You know they just livedifferently.
Maybe what their new life, whattheir life with their husband
is like, isn't big but theystill love it.
You know they have a group offriends.
Maybe they knit with or theygarden with and they don't want
to date again and that's finetoo.
You know I meet a lot of womenwho are like I've done that, I'm
finished, I don't want anymore.
(34:34):
They call men children.
I've raised a child, you know.
I've raised a man done with.
You know, done with lookingafter people and some people I
see they just have quieter livesor they travel in groups.
But I do get notes from folkswho aren't okay or not feeling
okay, and those are usuallyabout two years out, one or two
years out.
You know I think some peopleare sad, though I see they're
(34:55):
not happy and I don't know howto work with that.
Some people, I know, want to bepartnered again.
Then they don't find the rightperson or life just doesn't feel
very enjoyable without theirpartner.
Daniela (35:07):
Well, I'm glad you have any experiences or people
reaching out from your book,being grateful also that you
wrote the book and make themconnect and relate.
Debbie Weiss (35:15):
I hope so.
Yeah, I'm always grateful whensomeone reaches out to me, just
and I answer everybody peoplewho are sad or something that's
that's what I do.
Anybody's listening and theywant to reach out and tell me
their story, I will email back.
It'll take me a little bit, butI do.
Daniela (35:30):
Wonderful, wonderful.
So, debbie, thank you so muchfor sharing your story and being
so vulnerable.
I really appreciate that.
You told us all kinds ofnuggets.
That is making me richer and Ithink he's going to help a lot
of people too.
So, thank you no, I hope so.
Thank you so much.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.
I am Daniela and you werelistening to, because everyone
(35:51):
has a story.
Please take five seconds rightnow and think of somebody in
your life that may enjoy whatyou just heard, or someone that
has a story to be shared andpreserved.
When you think of that person,shoot them a text with the link
of this podcast.
This will allow the ordinarymagic to go further.
Join me next time for anotherstory conversation.
(36:13):
Thank you for listening.
Hasta pronto.
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