February 24, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode with Len Sturdivant, we explore the roots of toxic work relationships, the impact of narcissism in workplace culture, and how personal struggles often show up on the job. We discuss how traits like stubbornness or unresolved issues can contribute to toxicity and highlight the employer’s role in fostering a healthy, supportive work environment. Tune in as we uncover workplace toxicity and how leaders can foster accountability, well-being, and productivity.
Key Takeaways:
The Power of Acknowledging Personal Struggles - Unspoken struggles don’t stay hidden—they seep into every area of life. When personal challenges go unaddressed, they create stress, impact performance, and strain relationships. Acknowledging and talking about them isn’t weakness; it’s the first step toward resolution and growth.
Recognizing Narcissism in the Workplace - Narcissism takes many forms, and it can quietly disrupt workplaces and relationships. Some seek attention by playing the hero, while others manipulate behind a friendly mask.
What is Altruistic Narcissism? - Altruistic narcissists thrive on being seen as heroes. They help others, not out of selflessness, but to receive praise and validation. When their admiration is threatened they may resort to competition, manipulation, or sabotage to restore their sense of superiority.
The Covert Narcissist’s Power - Covert narcissists thrive on secrecy and control, targeting those who outshine them. They quietly sabotage others while maintaining an innocent facade, ensuring their superiority remains unchallenged.
Helpful Resources:
- The Power of Boundaries in the Workplace - Highly sensitive and nurturing employees often attract difficult personalities, including narcissists. Their kindness and teamwork can make them easy targets. Setting clear boundaries and learning to say “no” helps protect them and maintain a healthy workplace.
- Protecting Yourself from Narcissists - Narcissists respond to only five things: shame, exposure, leverage, force, and consequence. If your boundaries don’t come with real consequences, they’ll be ignored. Setting limits is important, but enforcing them is what truly protects you.
- The CEO’s Role in Workplace Culture - CEOs set the tone for workplace culture. When they are actively involved, real change happens. However, leadership can be isolating, and CEOs may need their own safe space to address challenges. Supporting them strengthens the entire organization.
About Len Sturdivant
Len Sturdivant is a psychologist, relationship expert, and hiring strategist. As the owner of Relationship Coach Pro, he helps individuals and businesses build healthier relationships. Recognizing the link between dating and hiring, he developed personality assessments to improve hiring decisions. His 42 job-specific assessments, tested on 20,000 people, help companies reduce turnover and stay EEOC-complaint.
Follow Len Sturdivant on Social media
Email: len@relationshipcoach.pro
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LuvDocLen
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationshipcoachpro
Follow Dr. Maiysha on Social media
Facebook: www.facebook.com/DrMaiysha
Instagram: www.instagram.com/DrMaiysha
Youtube: www.YouTube.com/DrMaiysha
Hosted by: Dr. Maiysha Clairborne
Communication is the foundation of everything and everything happens in communication. If you’re ready to take your communication to the next level, our Communication
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
0:00 (00:10):
Welcome to Behind beliefs, Behaviors and the Brain, your communication podcast, where we bring brain science and communication strategy together to transform how we lead, connect and thrive.
0:12 (00:10):
I am your host, Dr.
0:13 (00:10):
Myesha Claiborn, mom, physician, coach, consultant, and lover of all things, brain and behavior.
0:20 (00:10):
I also happen to be a trained expert in cultivating trust and safety through trauma informed communication.
0:26 (00:10):
Now you may be wondering what the heck does that mean?
0:29 (00:10):
No worries.
0:30 (00:10):
On this podcast, you will come to understand it all.
0:33 (00:10):
Together each Monday, we will explore and uncover what drives our beliefs, shapes our behaviors and influences our communication.
0:41 (00:10):
From individual relationships to organizational culture, each week we dive into the science behind trust and safety, relating, communicating, and breaking through limiting beliefs that hold us back.
0:52 (00:10):
So listen up, because whether you're a leader, a parent, a spouse, or just some amazing individual trying to get the tips for operating in your highest self on this podcast, you'll learn how to harness the power of the brain to create real change in your relationships, your leadership, and your life.
1:11 (00:10):
Tune in every Monday morning and remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
1:16 (00:10):
Now let's dive in and start reshaping communication from the inside out.
1:21 (00:10):
It's time to transform one conversation at a time.
1:25 (00:10):
Welcome back.
1:26 (00:10):
Welcome back to another live episode of Behind beliefs and Behaviors.
1:30 (00:10):
I am Doctor Maisha and Today we are talking about behind toxic work relationships and the narcissism in the workplace, and I am so excited because guess what?
1:42 (00:10):
I have with me an old favorite.
1:46 (00:10):
He is someone who I have had on the show.
1:51 (00:10):
Now I say the show, y'all know that this is the The new podcast because the Black Mind Garden sunsetted a couple of months ago when we had the Black Mind Garden, Lynn Sturdivant, psychologist, relationship expert, and hiring strategist, has been on my podcast at least 3 times, at least 3 times, and they have been some of the most Listened to episodes.
2:17 (00:10):
We have some really good conversations.
2:18 (00:10):
So I reached out to him, he reached out to me.
2:22 (00:10):
We were like, what are we gonna talk about?
2:23 (00:10):
And one of the things we have not talked about, we've talked about lots of things, relationships, but we have not talked about work relationships and particularly toxic work relationships, and as you all know, I'm all things communication and psychological safety, and he's all things relationship expert, hiring strate strategist, and he's got some things to say about narcissism.
2:46 (00:10):
And so let me just share with you who he is.
2:49 (00:10):
He is the owner of Relationship Coach Pro.
2:53 (00:10):
He is a psychologist, he is an amazing.
2:56 (00:10):
Being and he also is a hiring strategist.
3:00 (00:10):
He has a, we we're gonna talk about a little bit of this towards the latter half of the show, but he also has an assessment that you must look at before hiring people in your organization.
3:14 (00:10):
It will help to avoid.
3:16 (00:10):
Avoid some of the turnover that's due to personality clashes.
3:21 (00:10):
So I am super excited, you know, I love personality profiles.
3:24 (00:10):
I, I'll talk about the Myers Briggs all day.
3:26 (00:10):
It's it's not necessarily that, but you know I love that kind of talk.
3:30 (00:10):
So welcome back.
3:31 (00:10):
Welcome back to the the stage with me, Lynn.
3:35 (00:10):
How are you doing?
3:36 (00:10):
I am well.
3:38 (00:10):
It's summer and trying to get down to the beach before the prices go up.
3:43 (00:10):
North Carolina.
3:45 (00:10):
Yes, I forgot you live near the beach.
3:47 (00:10):
Yes, yes.
3:49 (00:10):
Well, for those of,, for those people who are listening who don't who have.
3:53 (00:10):
This is their first introduction to you.
3:56 (00:10):
Many, many people who listened to the Black Mind Garden have followed me over to Behind beliefs and Behaviors, but we do have some new listeners, so please introduce yourself and let us know who you are and and what you do and how you've gotten to where you are.
4:10 (00:10):
OK.
4:11 (00:10):
Oh, it's a long journey.
4:13 (00:10):
So Len Sturdivant, I, relationship coach Pro, I see couples who are stressing out and trying to get to, trying to come back together and I help them to look at the factors that are impacting the relationship.
4:31 (00:10):
And it hit me one day that Dating is hiring and you should probably follow the same pathway, you know, the scrutiny that you use in dating is the scrutiny that you should use in hiring and the light bulb went off.
4:49 (00:10):
Hey, so I've been transitioning into doing personality assessments for businesses who need to vet incoming onboarding employees for cultural fitness.
5:05 (00:10):
And the way we do it is I've got 42 overlays, secretary, administrator, doctor, CEO, CFO and we pair the assessment up with the position that keeps you.
5:23 (00:10):
DOL and EEOC compliant, Department of Labor and Equal Employment compliant.
5:29 (00:10):
You have to use an assessment that is job-related.
5:32 (00:10):
You can't just use anything.
5:34 (00:10):
So that's why Myers, people who use the Myers Brigg got in trouble and And because it's not job related, so we just crafted 42 positions and we normed them on 20,000 Americans, North Americans, and we came up with a prototype for 42 overlays.
5:53 (00:10):
So very cool, very cool, cool.
5:56 (00:10):
Yeah, very cool.
5:58 (00:10):
Well, one of the, one of the impetuses for this conversation was this assessment and as we have talked about different toxic toxicities in personal relationships, we, it's useful, I believe, and I love what you said, like the rules that you might use for dating might be similar to ones we could be using for hiring.
6:22 (00:10):
And so, I, I wanna talk about what's behind these toxic work relationships, and then I wouldn't really wanna move in a little bit into narcissism because I think that narcissism in the workplace is not talked about.
6:36 (00:10):
But it's rampant and it's kind of the elephant in the room in that, well, 50% of the US population vote for Trump.
6:46 (00:10):
If you want a marker.
6:48 (00:10):
There it is.
6:49 (00:10):
So he has a real, this upcoming election.
6:51 (00:10):
He has a real shot because you got the subsidiaries of narcissism, you got racism, you got fascism, you got stubborn people, you got rebellious people, and they, they all are on the same frequency and A lot of them come to work and, and the drama that they have at home will be replicated at work.
7:15 (00:10):
So it's incumbent upon the employer to make sure that you're not bringing people in who are going to be disruptive to your culture, who aren't consistent with your culture, people who play well in the sandbox, and that's really important.
7:34 (00:10):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
7:37 (00:10):
In passing a lot of different personality types, you said the, the stubborn person and the disruptive person, and we have the narcissistic tendencies and the full-blown narcissistic personality disorder, you know, a lot of different of these types.
7:51 (00:10):
And so I'd love to focus in because I believe that we could talk all day if we were to talk about all the different personality types that can create toxicity because not all of them.
8:03 (00:10):
I wanna be mindful of the use of binary, but not all of them are super harmful in and of themselves, some of them are, but then in putting in, put in the same settings and having a dynamic created is what creates the toxicity of the workplace rather than The personality itself being harmful.
8:23 (00:10):
So I just wanted to get your thoughts on that aspect of it.
8:28 (00:10):
Sure.
8:29 (00:10):
Well, but your, your, your brain loves symmetry.
8:33 (00:10):
It loves homeostasis.
8:35 (00:10):
One of the measurements that I look at on the assessment is contentment.
8:41 (00:10):
Now, you got a 1 or 2 in contentment.
8:45 (00:10):
You probably got something going on at home.
8:47 (00:10):
And, and so when you come to work, if you don't talk it out, you'll act it out.
8:53 (00:10):
So scenario, hey Lynn, we want you to look at our top performer.
8:56 (00:10):
There's something going on with him, he's not really talking to us.
8:59 (00:10):
Can you, can you just talk to him?
9:01 (00:10):
So I do business coaching as well.
9:03 (00:10):
So I'll talk to him, I'll give him the assessment and I'll see, it's a psychographic profile.
9:08 (00:10):
It's 24 personality traits.
9:10 (00:10):
The one that kinda jumped out at me was contentment.
9:14 (00:10):
I said, what's what's going on at home?
9:16 (00:10):
It, it, it seems like there's something troubling you at home.
9:20 (00:10):
And the guy finally admitted, he's like, well, yeah, I'm starting to go through a divorce.
9:24 (00:10):
Yeah, I know it's impacting my numbers, but you know, I've been married for 22 years.
9:29 (00:10):
I, I got children and everybody's shocked about this.
9:32 (00:10):
I'm shocked, we're shocked and It's probably showing up in my numbers at work.
9:37 (00:10):
That's what it is and well your employees concerned about you, so they want you to get help, so talk to me about what's going on at home.
9:45 (00:10):
OK.
9:46 (00:10):
And, and then we get into what he, he's bottled it up, he hasn't talked to anybody about it and, and, and most people have a hard time accepting help, let alone asking for it.
9:57 (00:10):
So when you get those kind of folks in, and once you get them to talk.
10:02 (00:10):
And they can start to relieve some of this pressure, and I, of course I talked to people about divorce all the time.
10:09 (00:10):
They would think she will come on, yeah, let's, let's talk to it cause what I know from the relationship world was that when two adults go into that parallel escalation.
10:21 (00:10):
They, it's not the adults in that's fighting, it's the children on the inside of them that's fighting.
10:26 (00:10):
And when they come back down, oh baby, I'm sorry, I didn't mean that.
10:29 (00:10):
So we talked about that and have his wife to come on and big misunderstanding, some resentment that was in there from an expectation that wasn't fulfilled and then it wasn't talked about, so it turned into resentment and resentment kind of spreads and so.
10:48 (00:10):
They want to save the marriage and once we got them out of the immediate danger, then his work performance it went up, right?
10:58 (00:10):
So he's, he's happy at home now.
11:00 (00:10):
There isn't gonna be a divorce there, you know, we, we're.
11:03 (00:10):
Gonna work this thing out and he went back to being a top performer.
11:07 (00:10):
So, so the assessment's wonderful in identifying folks who may be going through some things that you can be proactive and say, hey, talk to our business coach Lynn, he can help you out.
11:19 (00:10):
Yeah, and I, I think it speaks to what you said earlier, which is the personality or the behavior that's happening.
11:28 (00:10):
In and of itself may not be something that's overtly harmful, it may be a product of What's going on at home, right?
11:41 (00:10):
So there may be behavior that's harmful to obviously this this particular case was harmful to the his performance.
11:47 (00:10):
It was harmful to, you know, the numbers of the company.
11:50 (00:10):
It wasn't harming a person per se, right, than himself, and it was also due to a circumstance and we could say what shows up in a person's personality, it it could be the same thing.
12:05 (00:10):
And then when it put inside of a group dynamic problems, right?
12:09 (00:10):
And there are certain personality types and personality things and personalities that come through that are very harmful to people.
12:16 (00:10):
So there's that polarity.
12:18 (00:10):
So let's talk a little bit about narcissism because Because I think that is one of those tendencies, one of those patterns that is is very harmful to people in personal and work relationships, and I specifically want to talk about how does narcissism pretend to show up in the workplace.
12:38 (00:10):
Wow, you've got so many shades of narcissism, you've got the the altruistic narcissist.
12:45 (00:10):
Who comes into his job is to save the day and they sit back and get all the glory from it.
12:50 (00:10):
You got covert narcissists.
12:52 (00:10):
Covert narcissists are probably the most dangerous.
12:55 (00:10):
They'll smile and look, they can exhibit empathy.
12:59 (00:10):
It's not that they don't have empathy, the empathy they have is dysfunctional.
13:04 (00:10):
So they can appear genuine and concerning, and then you've got your overt narcissists.
13:11 (00:10):
You can see them a mile away, show off, flashy.
13:14 (00:10):
Can't coach them, can't tell them what to do, self-absorbed, these different types of narcissism that it's throughout the workplace and it's amazing how they show up because it's not something that's obvious but it's very subtle.
13:30 (00:10):
I, I did a dissertation on narcissism.
13:34 (00:10):
Does does narcissism influence divorce and they might as well like, yeah, well duh, but I had to look at 3000 narcissists to come up with the actual numbers.
13:44 (00:10):
So,, it's very true that it does impact it.
13:48 (00:10):
So the workplace is very similar to home.
13:52 (00:10):
So if I've got, if I'm narcissistic at home.
13:57 (00:10):
When I come to work, I'm looking for symmetry.
14:00 (00:10):
I'm looking for balance.
14:02 (00:10):
I'm, I'm looking to Have some of the same things so my brain can know what to expect.
14:07 (00:10):
Well, so, I mean, let's talk about a little bit more about some of the less overt ones.
14:14 (00:10):
I, I would love to hear a little bit more about the, the altruistic narcissists and how they tend to show up and like what are flags that people, because a lot of times when we think about people who are impacted, and I, we talk about this term gaslighting and we know that Many people gaslight other people.
14:33 (00:10):
We also know that self gaslighting can occur as well.
14:36 (00:10):
So I would love to to hear like how does the altruistic person show up in the workplace?
14:44 (00:10):
How, what are some of like the signs that an altruistic person may be gaslighting someone, maybe love bombing someone like and where did that cycle of abuse kind of start to come in with an altruist versus maybe a covert.
15:00 (00:10):
Right, covert's not gonna be show off at all.
15:04 (00:10):
Covert is exactly what it seems to be covert.
15:07 (00:10):
They'll stab you in the back and then come round to the front of you and go, what happened?
15:13 (00:10):
Well, let's look for the person who did that.
15:15 (00:10):
Oh my God, and show all this concern, almost like Munchausen where a person, they, they do, they irritate the kid in some way that everybody comes over for help, so,.
15:26 (00:10):
, the covert narcissist won't draw that kind of attention.
15:31 (00:10):
The altruistic narcissist gets his or her narcissist's supply from the praises of coming in and saving the day.
15:41 (00:10):
You turn the data center back on or you fix the problem that we were, and it's all about getting that narcissistic supply.
15:48 (00:10):
Once you get that, once you find that narcissistic supply, you just keep doing more of the behavior to receive the supply.
15:57 (00:10):
And what happens if that supply is disrupted?
16:02 (00:10):
Well take away that supply or someone else is getting the, getting the accolades.
16:08 (00:10):
Oh, well, well, now it's a competition.
16:12 (00:10):
So, are you trying to steal my supply, or you're trying to steal my spotlight?
16:16 (00:10):
Well, that, that's a problem because I'm the big dog around here.
16:20 (00:10):
I get the praise and adoration.
16:22 (00:10):
I don't know who you are, so it's all kind of sabotage plots and I'm gonna get my power back and I'm gonna restore my narcissistic supply, so I'm gonna continue to do those things.
16:35 (00:10):
That that gives me glory that in the eyes of the people around me, I'm the hero.
16:42 (00:10):
I'm the one who comes in and saves the day.
16:44 (00:10):
So yeah, so then the, from an altruistic narcissist perspective, if they're not the hero, it's the whole problem, and they're gonna do whatever it takes to get back in the position of the hero.
16:58 (00:10):
Right, to restore that energy, to restore that energy, including sabotaging.
17:04 (00:10):
Another person and then and then being like, oh what happened or maybe sabotaging them and then coming and saving the day, right?
17:15 (00:10):
Yeah, it's, it's so many subplots to that.
17:19 (00:10):
And here's where having a a thorough personality assessment and it's a psychographic profile that looks at 24 traits is red zone, yellow zone, green zone, and, and you look at these traits and you go, OK.
17:37 (00:10):
This person's in the red zone and several of these traits, we think that may be problematic and we want you to go see Lynn, you know.
17:45 (00:10):
I, I, we had one guy, CEO guy, and he's like, well, we wanna take it.
17:50 (00:10):
I'm like, You sure you wanna look at some people downstream first because this is a very whole of mirror up to you.
17:57 (00:10):
You may not like what you see test and say, no, I know what you're trying to do.
18:01 (00:10):
No, we need to know what was in the room.
18:04 (00:10):
And wow, I've seen some CEOs that Probably shouldn't be CEOs.
18:11 (00:10):
Yeah, I imagine.
18:13 (00:10):
So I get like this whole altruism piece and, and there being the hero on saving the day.
18:21 (00:10):
What is the source for the covert person?
18:24 (00:10):
Like what's the source for them?
18:26 (00:10):
Like what, you know, the altruism person gets their energy from being the hero and being in the limelight in that way.
18:34 (00:10):
Covert person, where's the where's that powers for them?
18:39 (00:10):
The power with the covert narcissism is I know what's going on and you don't.
18:46 (00:10):
I, I know the explanation and because I, I'm keeping that, I, I don't want any exposure for that.
18:54 (00:10):
I, I, I know what happened to the budget because I went in and I, I, I did some things to the budget, and now this thing is blown up and everybody's looking around who did it.
19:04 (00:10):
Covert narcissists usually have a target and they have a mission and a goal and covert narcissists usually target people that are contrary to their existence.
19:20 (00:10):
Contrary.
So say more about that.
19:22 (00:10):
Contrary to their existence.
19:23 (00:10):
So if, if you're a threat, if you're smarter, if you're nicer, you get more accolades, you get more attention, the covert narcissist who would love to have that attention sees you getting off and they start, they start hating you for it.
19:42 (00:10):
Like, why are you getting all that attention?
19:44 (00:10):
And, and why am I not getting all those accolades?
19:46 (00:10):
Mhm.
19:47 (00:10):
And so they'll set out to sabotage all the stuff that's happening to you, but you won't see them do it.
19:54 (00:10):
It's very unobtrusive.
19:56 (00:10):
You won't know who put some Ipecac syrup in your yogurt.
20:04 (00:10):
Got it.
20:05 (00:10):
So, yeah, so it's, it's really the theme is the same.
20:09 (00:10):
They want power, they want attention, and the way they show up is different.
20:15 (00:10):
So the, the overt narcissist shows up flashy, shows up but can't, they, they're flashy and arrogant.
20:22 (00:10):
You can't tell them anything.
20:23 (00:10):
That's the overt one, they show up like that.
20:26 (00:10):
The, the covert 1 may only show up as sort of, may show up as quote unquote, I'm gonna say quote unquote normal.
20:34 (00:10):
Oh yeah, and you know you would never suspect when it and when they finally get caught people go, I never saw it coming.
20:42 (00:10):
They are so nice.
20:44 (00:10):
Oh my goodness, yeah, versus the, the overt or malignant narcissism term like Donald Trump.
20:52 (00:10):
You can see him coming a mile away.
20:54 (00:10):
Donald Trump's co-morbid with usually if you're narcissistic, you're usually co-morbid with something else, right,.
21:03 (00:10):
And so then you have the altruistic who shows up as the hero in the story, always, so they're that's there, so they, they just show up differently in the story.
21:15 (00:10):
Now here's the question I have because I think this is What probably a lot of people are asking who are listening.
21:22 (00:10):
As a person who might be impacted by a narcissist, how do I know?
21:29 (00:10):
Like, what does it feel like on the other side of that?
21:34 (00:10):
Because I think that's whether they show up as the hero, whether they show up as the covert, I mean, clearly, we don't even have to talk much about the malignant cause that is what it is.
21:43 (00:10):
But, but I, I think some of these lesser known ones, how can a person in the workplace who feels like something is, it feels toxic, how can they know, OK, this person is I'm being impacted in some way by some narcissistic tendencies or personalities.
22:03 (00:10):
What are some warning signs for them so that they can take care of themselves?
22:09 (00:10):
That's very important.
22:10 (00:10):
It's huge.
22:11 (00:10):
Bullying is, is the new thing that's hitting the, the workplace now.
22:15 (00:10):
So if you're a victim of being bullied, that is certainly one of the bullies or narcs.
22:22 (00:10):
So, and it shows up in that you feel like it's uncomfortable for you to come to work.
22:28 (00:10):
It's uncomfortable for you to sit in the cubicle next to this person.
22:31 (00:10):
when, if you're especially especially empath, I'm empath, highly call it highly sensitive people, introverts, empath nurturers, these are the people who are narcissistic suppliers, and they will be, they're going to attract.
22:51 (00:10):
People who need to be helped, healed, fixed, saved, or rescued.
22:58 (00:10):
Those are the characteristics and so if I'm a caring, empathic person, if any narcissists are in my face, they'll be attracted to me and I've done, I've been there, I hated it.
23:11 (00:10):
You know, we we talked about being uncomfortable and, and or bullying rather.
23:15 (00:10):
He talked about being bullied and it's probably a Useful for people to get bullying occurs in in multiple domains, right?
23:22 (00:10):
Like it's, I think when people think of bullying, they think of this overt verbal verbal assault, but it's not always just the overt assault so much as it could be like with withholding could be withholding of information or withholding of communication.
23:39 (00:10):
or passive aggressiveness, consistently passive aggressiveness or could be the like I, I have 11 client who was sharing that in her workplace meeting there was a person who spoke to everyone in the room except for her and I was just It was just very loud, right?
24:02 (00:10):
And so like that's like a form of bullying, withholding, we'll say affections for lack of a better word, because in the workplace we know that could be taken a certain way, but like withholding that connection, that's the withholding connection.
24:17 (00:10):
So like the there's the withhold in addition to the actual.
24:21 (00:10):
Act of assaulting or the aggressions, the act of exclusion, overt acts of exclusion or subtle acts of exclusion.
24:31 (00:10):
These are these types of things whether it be In verbal communication, in nonverbal communication, or in digital communication.
24:40 (00:10):
So that can be show up as well.
24:42 (00:10):
So yeah, that bullying and it, yeah, that's really interesting and I mean gaslighting us also, again, is a form of bullying.
24:49 (00:10):
So when people exit, especially highly sensitive people are usually the first to to exit.
24:57 (00:10):
And, and in the exit interview, what I'm hearing a lot of is the money's fine, it's the people who are in management who are driving folks off.
25:08 (00:10):
So one of the things we do in our corporate enterprise packages, we look at the rank and file, we look at your managers, and we can identify those managers who may have that issue.
25:20 (00:10):
And if, if you're running folks away or if you're, if people are exiting because of management, then it's, it's time we take a look at management and who's doing it and what are their motivations and It, it gets political, so doing an assessment one time and, and I, I, I did all these assessments and, and it's like this one stood out.
25:42 (00:10):
I'm like, well, who is this person?
25:43 (00:10):
I don't, I'm blind.
25:44 (00:10):
I don't know name, number, race, gen gender, I don't know any of it.
25:49 (00:10):
So I'm looking at a profile.
25:50 (00:10):
I'm like, wow, who's this?
25:52 (00:10):
Well, that's the president's son.
25:55 (00:10):
Oh, OK.
25:58 (00:10):
Who has free rein to do whatever he wants, terrorize people, doesn't really like the job, needs the money, father's there, who doesn't really rein them in, and, and the people around him complain about him, but no one does anything about it.
26:15 (00:10):
Yeah, yeah.
26:16 (00:10):
And so in terms of like the person who's on the lived experience side of someone who is a narcissist in, in any of those domains, is there anything else that, you know, you talk about them being like if you're an empath, a highly sensitive person, which by the way, I am as well, the discomfort or the of, of being near the person or is there anything else like that?
26:41 (00:10):
Shows up in the person who's being sort of the, who is the object of the narcissist's desire or power, you know, being drained or like what else comes up for them as well.
26:56 (00:10):
So, highly sensitive people in the workplace, you know, they're, they're going to attract.
27:02 (00:10):
It's, it's almost a target rich environment for narcissists to be people around people who actually care, want to get the job done, nurturing.
27:13 (00:10):
Highly intelligent people who who.
27:17 (00:10):
are motivated to, to play well with others in the sandbox.
27:21 (00:10):
And so narcissists are gonna naturally be attracted to them.
27:25 (00:10):
So if you find yourself in that situation, the first defense is no.
27:29 (00:10):
You have to, the, how you take care of yourself is your ability to say no, which establishes your ability to establish a boundary.
27:38 (00:10):
Boundaries that people know how you want to be treated.
27:41 (00:10):
So in, in establishing those two things, it's really important and Depending on how HR is structured, you should be able to go to HR and say, hey, this person is harassing me, tell him to leave me alone, and, and here's where it gets really, we've been in some political situations that I can identify them all day.
28:01 (00:10):
I can tell you make suggestion what to do, but it's the bottom line is gonna be up to the employer to execute.
28:08 (00:10):
Do we put you on a performance improvement plan?
28:10 (00:10):
Do we put you In some type of or coaching to, to mitigate that, but the for the person who is on the receiving end of it, you have to take your power back.
28:23 (00:10):
Because narcissists only understand 5 languages and, and here are the five languages wrote them down.
28:30 (00:10):
Shame, exposure, leverage, force, and consequence.
28:38 (00:10):
If, if it's not one of these 5 languages in one ear and out the other.
28:44 (00:10):
That's powerful.
28:46 (00:10):
Can you say those five things again?
28:48 (00:10):
Sure.
28:50 (00:10):
Shame, shame is all about exposure.
28:53 (00:10):
I don't want you to see that about me.
28:55 (00:10):
So shame, exposure, leverage.
28:59 (00:10):
Do you have enough leverage?
29:01 (00:10):
Donald Trump's in court.
29:04 (00:10):
That's leverage.
29:05 (00:10):
That leverage has a specific consequence to it, and if you've got a, a good enough vehicle, it'll have force.
29:14 (00:10):
Force is the actual.
29:17 (00:10):
Taking him and lock him up and and doing that.
29:20 (00:10):
So shame, exposure, leverage, force and consequence.
29:26 (00:10):
Those are the languages that most narcissists understand.
29:29 (00:10):
If you're not speaking that language.
29:32 (00:10):
You, you're wasting time.
29:34 (00:10):
And these are the ways that that people who are on their seating and can take care of themselves is by speaking those languages, setting those boundaries and setting and and here and here's the piece y'all, you can set the boundary, but if you don't hold your own boundary, then you're actually giving more fuel.
29:52 (00:10):
Here's where it gets really tricky because a lot of, I, I've spoken to a lot of victims and turns out they're also bullied in their families.
30:03 (00:10):
Yeah, here, here's the symmetry.
30:06 (00:10):
I come to work and, and wow, I'm recreating the same things that happen at home so that those boundaries, I, I don't have boundaries.
30:16 (00:10):
I don't have my anger available to me.
30:18 (00:10):
So if I didn't have my anger available to me at home, it's gonna be real hard for me to have my anger available to me at work.
30:26 (00:10):
And here's where it gets tricky because you have got to tap into that anger to say, hey.
30:32 (00:10):
Speak one of these five languages, take up for yourself and, and, and it's, it's foreign because it's like,, I don't know, I don't know how to take my power back.
30:42 (00:10):
I don't, I don't know how to have my anger available to me because I've never had my anger available to me.
30:47 (00:10):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's, it's important to be able to, to like experience and have available to you all of the emotions and understand.
30:56 (00:10):
them as informations because it's those things that will help you to know it's time to set a boundary.
31:02 (00:10):
It's that thing that will let you know it's time to set that boundary and that will allow you to to know in your body, oh this is coming up, that means that boundary is coming, they're coming close to it I need to hold that boundary.
31:14 (00:10):
And so I I think that's just so useful.
31:17 (00:10):
The other piece that it brings up for me as you talked about.
31:20 (00:10):
The possibility of them going to HR and I think this is the place and at the, at the end of the day it's the employer.
31:26 (00:10):
This is the place where, you know, the employers, this is where places where the employer can create psychological safety in the workplace because when they make it safe to report and they actually are congruent in their actions and taking actions inside of the Reporting, right?
31:45 (00:10):
So you can make it safe to report, but if there's no accountability, if there's no, and I talk a lot about this and when I do my psychological safety trainings, if there's no like actual accountability, then you're not creating trust within the organization, you're actually threatening and destroying trust in the organization.
32:00 (00:10):
So that psychological safety has to come with that accountability, that, that trust, and so the employers have to Be congruent in and of themselves and have the integrity and the courage and the, the all of the things to be able to enforce their own boundaries around the policies as well.
32:20 (00:10):
So I think that is extremely important.
32:24 (00:10):
There's the personal responsibility or the personal actions that can be taken by the person experiencing the harm.
32:30 (00:10):
And if the organization is safe enough to report, then the organization then has a responsibility to take action to Protect the person who was harmed and that's what creates an organization where people wanna stay and then in terms of like what you're doing in terms of your, your assessments, another way that I think that organizations can create safety is by using these types of assessments so you don't get these people in the first place, right, so that's, that's sort of like on the preventive side, but we all know that not everybody has taken your assessment and so there's a spectrum.
33:09 (00:10):
And it's important to understand along the spectrum what people can do, what at all levels, what people who are being harmed by the narcissist can do, what HR can do, what the organization can do, and how they can prevent future harm by utilizing things like this.
33:30 (00:10):
So I appreciate all the all of it, the all levels of it, the polarities and the spectrum of work to be done to be able to really start to dismantle toxicity in the workplace.
33:45 (00:10):
It's tough.
33:46 (00:10):
Yeah, the, the, the fish stinks from the head down.
33:50 (00:10):
So the first place,, the corporate environments that are implementing these changes start with the C-suite.
33:59 (00:10):
Absolutely, absolutely.
34:01 (00:10):
I always say that the Csuite sets the culture.
34:04 (00:10):
They are the ones I work with an organization here in Atlanta and we were doing our, our anti-racism work, started with the CEO and the CHRO and then to the, the senior leadership team.
34:20 (00:10):
And that transform that group and it's trickling down and they're having their directors and managers do our work with us, but they're coming into it excited because the C-suite set the culture and got them excited about the possible changes that and how it can benefit the whole organization.
34:42 (00:10):
So I think that is incredibly true, like the C.
34:46 (00:10):
We starting with the CEO cause sometimes you'll have the senior leadership doing stuff, but the CEO is like, oh, I'm exempt.
34:53 (00:10):
So the CEOs have to be involved in, in, in addition to the entire executive team.
34:59 (00:10):
Now one thing I will say just having known several CEOs is that sometimes, and this is just a a place that I'm exploring as well in in in my work is that Sometimes in in this work of psychological safety and trauma, sometimes the CEOs need their own container because there are things that they don't feel comfortable saying with their senior leadership team.
35:28 (00:10):
And so one of the places of exploration that I'm, that is how do we create the container, the safe space for them, because they're at the top and we all know it's lonely at the top.
35:41 (00:10):
They only, they are, they answer to the board members, of course, but still inside of the organization.
35:47 (00:10):
So it's just a, it's just a food for thought, something I've been thinking of, but, but coming back to, to, to you, I, I just You know, we could talk all day.
35:55 (00:10):
I'm looking at the, the time I'm like, oh, OK.
35:58 (00:10):
I really appreciate the work that you're doing with this assessment because it really is a preventive measure.
36:04 (00:10):
It is a place where organizations, it is a, it is an actionable step where organizations can begin to create safety by, you know, preventing.
36:16 (00:10):
Toxic people coming into toxic personalities I should say, coming into their workplace and where they can examine dynamics between personalities because while not all personalities are toxic personalities, dynamics can become toxic among personalities and when you know this, then you can actually manage that aspect of it.
36:38 (00:10):
So there's just all kinds of things that these kinds of assessments can do to make a workplace safer for the organization and to know then what's next to do, what kinds of trainings, what types of coaching, what types of, you know, educations or courses or programs can be done.
36:57 (00:10):
And so thanks for bringing this element into the conversation.
37:02 (00:10):
And I would really love it if you would share with the audience very quickly, how can they reach you if they are like, oh, let me explore this assessment.
37:12 (00:10):
How can they reach you and talk to you about it?
37:15 (00:10):
Sure.
Hiringsolutions.pro is the website and the assessment is $450 and we give you a 45 page debrief.
37:31 (00:10):
And you actually sit down and talk with me.
37:34 (00:10):
Now, one of the things that I emphasize, and this is really important for me, is I emphasize redemption.
37:43 (00:10):
OK, you, you can come in that way, but I believe in people being able to say, hey, this is going on, hey, let me talk to you.
37:54 (00:10):
Let's try these behaviors.
37:55 (00:10):
I know that in order to create the brain hates change.
38:01 (00:10):
So, in order to create a change, we have to do a behavior 28 times in a row through inculcation.
38:09 (00:10):
So, say, hey, you know, here, here are some behaviors that I want you to try out and, and go back into the workplace.
38:17 (00:10):
And begin this process of redemption, because the, the inside, I'm, I'm also looking at what's driving this person.
38:25 (00:10):
Are they in the adult state or are they in the child state?
38:28 (00:10):
We try to get them out of that child state and into that prefrontal cortex where I can make adult decisions and not let my child part get in there because once my child part and it's the most fluid switch ever, once I'm in my child energy.
38:46 (00:10):
Scorch earth.
38:48 (00:10):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
38:50 (00:10):
So hiringuts.pro.
38:54 (00:10):
Hiringuts.pro, y'all, we will have this in the show notes so that you can reach out to Lynn and ask him and, and, and bring him on to, to give these assessments to To your folks, your people, your staff, your leaders, your executives.
39:12 (00:10):
So please go to hiringsolutions.pro and check out my friend Lynn and share this episode, share this episode with a colleague, with a,, a co-worker, with a, a, a leader in your organization.
39:29 (00:10):
With a friend, with a family member who may be working in an organization because I think this is so important.
39:37 (00:10):
So many people are dealing with mental health issues in the workplace, and some of it has to do with the dynamics of toxicity that exist on all levels and when we can have leaders making organizations safer for people to work for their staff and their leaders to work in.
39:59 (00:10):
Then that will begin to help.
40:01 (00:10):
It's not by, it won't by any means mitigate it altogether, but where, if you're a place where you go to for 8 to 10 hours to work needs to be a safe and healthy environment.
40:15 (00:10):
So with that, I leave you, and of course you all know what I do.
40:19 (00:10):
This I'm all about helping people build the skills of the nuances of trauma-informed communication for psychological safety.
40:31 (00:10):
You all know that I, my communication that transforms course is now accredited for 22.
40:39 (00:10):
Continuing medical education credits.
40:41 (00:10):
So if you're interested in learning more about that, I'll have that link also in the show notes and you can discover more about how to bring me in to speak or do workshops on communication and psychological safety by going to my websiteindreammapping Academy.com.
40:57 (00:10):
So with that, thank you again, Lynn, for being with me again.
41:02 (00:10):
This is not the last time we always bring you back.
41:05 (00:10):
This actually this conversation as we can see, we have 45 minutes in.
41:11 (00:10):
It is a multiple episode conversation.
41:14 (00:10):
We definitely will come back and talk a little bit more about the other kinds of personalities that you mentioned and how they can create toxic dynamics.
41:24 (00:10):
So thank you again.
41:25 (00:10):
And audience, thank you for listening.
41:28 (00:10):
Without you there is no podcast.
41:30 (00:10):
You all are the bridge to a new kind of conversation and with that, I appreciate you.
41:37 (00:10):
So until we see you next time, my good people, stay empowered.
41:42 (00:10):
Thank you for joining me on today's episode.
41:45 (00:10):
We truly appreciate our listeners because without you there is no podcast.
41:50 (00:10):
I really hope you enjoyed today's episode and that it gave you fresh insights and practical tools to elevate your communication and build trust and safety in all areas of your life from leading your teams to strengthening your relationships at home.
42:03 (00:10):
If today's conversation resonated with you, please take a moment to subscribe the podcast, share this episode, and leave us a 5 star review.
42:12 (00:10):
Your support helps us reach more people looking to enhance their relationships, their leadership, and the communication in every area of their life.
42:21 (00:10):
If you are ready to take your communication to the next level, I encourage you to check out our communication that transforms online course.
42:28 (00:10):
This course dives deep into creating psychological safety, mastering trauma informed communication that allows you to build behavior.
42:36 (00:10):
Flexibility and tackle any circumstance in your life.
42:40 (00:10):
You'll learn practical strategies for handling difficult conversations, navigating conflict, and cultivating trust in a way that truly resonates with the people around you and leaves them feeling seen, heard, respected, valued and welcome.
42:54 (00:10):
This course is designed to help you transform not only how you lead, but how you show up in all your relationships, whether in the boardroom with your.
43:01 (00:10):
Teams are at home with your family.
43:03 (00:10):
Check out the course at mindremapping academy.com/TICC to learn more, see the full course catalog and register.
43:15 (00:10):
This link will also be in the show notes.
43:18 (00:10):
That's www.inndremapping academy.com/TICC.
43:26 (00:10):
Finally, if these topics resonate with you and you want to bring them to your department, your team or your organization, I'd love to speak with you.
43:36 (00:10):
Reach out to me and invite me in for a workshop or a conference tailored to elevate your organization's trust, collaboration, communication safe.
43:46 (00:10):
and belonging.
43:47 (00:10):
You can learn more and reach out to me by visiting mindremapping academy.com backslash corporate-programs.
43:57 (00:10):
Remember, change happens one intentional conversation at a time with one small shift in how we connect, listen, and lead.
44:06 (00:10):
Keep listening with intention and communicating with clarity, and until the next episode, stay empowered.
Welcome to Behind beliefs, Behaviors and the Brain, your communication podcast, where we bring brain science and communication strategy together to transform how we lead, connect and thrive.
0:12 (00:10):
I am your host, Dr.
0:13 (00:10):
Myesha Claiborn, mom, physician, coach, consultant, and lover of all things, brain and behavior.
0:20 (00:10):
I also happen to be a trained expert in cultivating trust and safety through trauma informed communication.
0:26 (00:10):
Now you may be wondering what the heck does that mean?
0:29 (00:10):
No worries.
0:30 (00:10):
On this podcast, you will come to understand it all.
0:33 (00:10):
Together each Monday, we will explore and uncover what drives our beliefs, shapes our behaviors and influences our communication.
0:41 (00:10):
From individual relationships to organizational culture, each week we dive into the science behind trust and safety, relating, communicating, and breaking through limiting beliefs that hold us back.
0:52 (00:10):
So listen up, because whether you're a leader, a parent, a spouse, or just some amazing individual trying to get the tips for operating in your highest self on this podcast, you'll learn how to harness the power of the brain to create real change in your relationships, your leadership, and your life.
1:11 (00:10):
Tune in every Monday morning and remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
1:16 (00:10):
Now let's dive in and start reshaping communication from the inside out.
1:21 (00:10):
It's time to transform one conversation at a time.
1:25 (00:10):
Welcome back.
1:26 (00:10):
Welcome back to another live episode of Behind beliefs and Behaviors.
1:30 (00:10):
I am Doctor Maisha and Today we are talking about behind toxic work relationships and the narcissism in the workplace, and I am so excited because guess what?
1:42 (00:10):
I have with me an old favorite.
1:46 (00:10):
He is someone who I have had on the show.
1:51 (00:10):
Now I say the show, y'all know that this is the The new podcast because the Black Mind Garden sunsetted a couple of months ago when we had the Black Mind Garden, Lynn Sturdivant, psychologist, relationship expert, and hiring strategist, has been on my podcast at least 3 times, at least 3 times, and they have been some of the most Listened to episodes.
2:17 (00:10):
We have some really good conversations.
2:18 (00:10):
So I reached out to him, he reached out to me.
2:22 (00:10):
We were like, what are we gonna talk about?
2:23 (00:10):
And one of the things we have not talked about, we've talked about lots of things, relationships, but we have not talked about work relationships and particularly toxic work relationships, and as you all know, I'm all things communication and psychological safety, and he's all things relationship expert, hiring strate strategist, and he's got some things to say about narcissism.
2:46 (00:10):
And so let me just share with you who he is.
2:49 (00:10):
He is the owner of Relationship Coach Pro.
2:53 (00:10):
He is a psychologist, he is an amazing.
2:56 (00:10):
Being and he also is a hiring strategist.
3:00 (00:10):
He has a, we we're gonna talk about a little bit of this towards the latter half of the show, but he also has an assessment that you must look at before hiring people in your organization.
3:14 (00:10):
It will help to avoid.
3:16 (00:10):
Avoid some of the turnover that's due to personality clashes.
3:21 (00:10):
So I am super excited, you know, I love personality profiles.
3:24 (00:10):
I, I'll talk about the Myers Briggs all day.
3:26 (00:10):
It's it's not necessarily that, but you know I love that kind of talk.
3:30 (00:10):
So welcome back.
3:31 (00:10):
Welcome back to the the stage with me, Lynn.
3:35 (00:10):
How are you doing?
3:36 (00:10):
I am well.
3:38 (00:10):
It's summer and trying to get down to the beach before the prices go up.
3:43 (00:10):
North Carolina.
3:45 (00:10):
Yes, I forgot you live near the beach.
3:47 (00:10):
Yes, yes.
3:49 (00:10):
Well, for those of,, for those people who are listening who don't who have.
3:53 (00:10):
This is their first introduction to you.
3:56 (00:10):
Many, many people who listened to the Black Mind Garden have followed me over to Behind beliefs and Behaviors, but we do have some new listeners, so please introduce yourself and let us know who you are and and what you do and how you've gotten to where you are.
4:10 (00:10):
OK.
4:11 (00:10):
Oh, it's a long journey.
4:13 (00:10):
So Len Sturdivant, I, relationship coach Pro, I see couples who are stressing out and trying to get to, trying to come back together and I help them to look at the factors that are impacting the relationship.
4:31 (00:10):
And it hit me one day that Dating is hiring and you should probably follow the same pathway, you know, the scrutiny that you use in dating is the scrutiny that you should use in hiring and the light bulb went off.
4:49 (00:10):
Hey, so I've been transitioning into doing personality assessments for businesses who need to vet incoming onboarding employees for cultural fitness.
5:05 (00:10):
And the way we do it is I've got 42 overlays, secretary, administrator, doctor, CEO, CFO and we pair the assessment up with the position that keeps you.
5:23 (00:10):
DOL and EEOC compliant, Department of Labor and Equal Employment compliant.
5:29 (00:10):
You have to use an assessment that is job-related.
5:32 (00:10):
You can't just use anything.
5:34 (00:10):
So that's why Myers, people who use the Myers Brigg got in trouble and And because it's not job related, so we just crafted 42 positions and we normed them on 20,000 Americans, North Americans, and we came up with a prototype for 42 overlays.
5:53 (00:10):
So very cool, very cool, cool.
5:56 (00:10):
Yeah, very cool.
5:58 (00:10):
Well, one of the, one of the impetuses for this conversation was this assessment and as we have talked about different toxic toxicities in personal relationships, we, it's useful, I believe, and I love what you said, like the rules that you might use for dating might be similar to ones we could be using for hiring.
6:22 (00:10):
And so, I, I wanna talk about what's behind these toxic work relationships, and then I wouldn't really wanna move in a little bit into narcissism because I think that narcissism in the workplace is not talked about.
6:36 (00:10):
But it's rampant and it's kind of the elephant in the room in that, well, 50% of the US population vote for Trump.
6:46 (00:10):
If you want a marker.
6:48 (00:10):
There it is.
6:49 (00:10):
So he has a real, this upcoming election.
6:51 (00:10):
He has a real shot because you got the subsidiaries of narcissism, you got racism, you got fascism, you got stubborn people, you got rebellious people, and they, they all are on the same frequency and A lot of them come to work and, and the drama that they have at home will be replicated at work.
7:15 (00:10):
So it's incumbent upon the employer to make sure that you're not bringing people in who are going to be disruptive to your culture, who aren't consistent with your culture, people who play well in the sandbox, and that's really important.
7:34 (00:10):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
7:37 (00:10):
In passing a lot of different personality types, you said the, the stubborn person and the disruptive person, and we have the narcissistic tendencies and the full-blown narcissistic personality disorder, you know, a lot of different of these types.
7:51 (00:10):
And so I'd love to focus in because I believe that we could talk all day if we were to talk about all the different personality types that can create toxicity because not all of them.
8:03 (00:10):
I wanna be mindful of the use of binary, but not all of them are super harmful in and of themselves, some of them are, but then in putting in, put in the same settings and having a dynamic created is what creates the toxicity of the workplace rather than The personality itself being harmful.
8:23 (00:10):
So I just wanted to get your thoughts on that aspect of it.
8:28 (00:10):
Sure.
8:29 (00:10):
Well, but your, your, your brain loves symmetry.
8:33 (00:10):
It loves homeostasis.
8:35 (00:10):
One of the measurements that I look at on the assessment is contentment.
8:41 (00:10):
Now, you got a 1 or 2 in contentment.
8:45 (00:10):
You probably got something going on at home.
8:47 (00:10):
And, and so when you come to work, if you don't talk it out, you'll act it out.
8:53 (00:10):
So scenario, hey Lynn, we want you to look at our top performer.
8:56 (00:10):
There's something going on with him, he's not really talking to us.
8:59 (00:10):
Can you, can you just talk to him?
9:01 (00:10):
So I do business coaching as well.
9:03 (00:10):
So I'll talk to him, I'll give him the assessment and I'll see, it's a psychographic profile.
9:08 (00:10):
It's 24 personality traits.
9:10 (00:10):
The one that kinda jumped out at me was contentment.
9:14 (00:10):
I said, what's what's going on at home?
9:16 (00:10):
It, it, it seems like there's something troubling you at home.
9:20 (00:10):
And the guy finally admitted, he's like, well, yeah, I'm starting to go through a divorce.
9:24 (00:10):
Yeah, I know it's impacting my numbers, but you know, I've been married for 22 years.
9:29 (00:10):
I, I got children and everybody's shocked about this.
9:32 (00:10):
I'm shocked, we're shocked and It's probably showing up in my numbers at work.
9:37 (00:10):
That's what it is and well your employees concerned about you, so they want you to get help, so talk to me about what's going on at home.
9:45 (00:10):
OK.
9:46 (00:10):
And, and then we get into what he, he's bottled it up, he hasn't talked to anybody about it and, and, and most people have a hard time accepting help, let alone asking for it.
9:57 (00:10):
So when you get those kind of folks in, and once you get them to talk.
10:02 (00:10):
And they can start to relieve some of this pressure, and I, of course I talked to people about divorce all the time.
10:09 (00:10):
They would think she will come on, yeah, let's, let's talk to it cause what I know from the relationship world was that when two adults go into that parallel escalation.
10:21 (00:10):
They, it's not the adults in that's fighting, it's the children on the inside of them that's fighting.
10:26 (00:10):
And when they come back down, oh baby, I'm sorry, I didn't mean that.
10:29 (00:10):
So we talked about that and have his wife to come on and big misunderstanding, some resentment that was in there from an expectation that wasn't fulfilled and then it wasn't talked about, so it turned into resentment and resentment kind of spreads and so.
10:48 (00:10):
They want to save the marriage and once we got them out of the immediate danger, then his work performance it went up, right?
10:58 (00:10):
So he's, he's happy at home now.
11:00 (00:10):
There isn't gonna be a divorce there, you know, we, we're.
11:03 (00:10):
Gonna work this thing out and he went back to being a top performer.
11:07 (00:10):
So, so the assessment's wonderful in identifying folks who may be going through some things that you can be proactive and say, hey, talk to our business coach Lynn, he can help you out.
11:19 (00:10):
Yeah, and I, I think it speaks to what you said earlier, which is the personality or the behavior that's happening.
11:28 (00:10):
In and of itself may not be something that's overtly harmful, it may be a product of What's going on at home, right?
11:41 (00:10):
So there may be behavior that's harmful to obviously this this particular case was harmful to the his performance.
11:47 (00:10):
It was harmful to, you know, the numbers of the company.
11:50 (00:10):
It wasn't harming a person per se, right, than himself, and it was also due to a circumstance and we could say what shows up in a person's personality, it it could be the same thing.
12:05 (00:10):
And then when it put inside of a group dynamic problems, right?
12:09 (00:10):
And there are certain personality types and personality things and personalities that come through that are very harmful to people.
12:16 (00:10):
So there's that polarity.
12:18 (00:10):
So let's talk a little bit about narcissism because Because I think that is one of those tendencies, one of those patterns that is is very harmful to people in personal and work relationships, and I specifically want to talk about how does narcissism pretend to show up in the workplace.
12:38 (00:10):
Wow, you've got so many shades of narcissism, you've got the the altruistic narcissist.
12:45 (00:10):
Who comes into his job is to save the day and they sit back and get all the glory from it.
12:50 (00:10):
You got covert narcissists.
12:52 (00:10):
Covert narcissists are probably the most dangerous.
12:55 (00:10):
They'll smile and look, they can exhibit empathy.
12:59 (00:10):
It's not that they don't have empathy, the empathy they have is dysfunctional.
13:04 (00:10):
So they can appear genuine and concerning, and then you've got your overt narcissists.
13:11 (00:10):
You can see them a mile away, show off, flashy.
13:14 (00:10):
Can't coach them, can't tell them what to do, self-absorbed, these different types of narcissism that it's throughout the workplace and it's amazing how they show up because it's not something that's obvious but it's very subtle.
13:30 (00:10):
I, I did a dissertation on narcissism.
13:34 (00:10):
Does does narcissism influence divorce and they might as well like, yeah, well duh, but I had to look at 3000 narcissists to come up with the actual numbers.
13:44 (00:10):
So,, it's very true that it does impact it.
13:48 (00:10):
So the workplace is very similar to home.
13:52 (00:10):
So if I've got, if I'm narcissistic at home.
13:57 (00:10):
When I come to work, I'm looking for symmetry.
14:00 (00:10):
I'm looking for balance.
14:02 (00:10):
I'm, I'm looking to Have some of the same things so my brain can know what to expect.
14:07 (00:10):
Well, so, I mean, let's talk about a little bit more about some of the less overt ones.
14:14 (00:10):
I, I would love to hear a little bit more about the, the altruistic narcissists and how they tend to show up and like what are flags that people, because a lot of times when we think about people who are impacted, and I, we talk about this term gaslighting and we know that Many people gaslight other people.
14:33 (00:10):
We also know that self gaslighting can occur as well.
14:36 (00:10):
So I would love to to hear like how does the altruistic person show up in the workplace?
14:44 (00:10):
How, what are some of like the signs that an altruistic person may be gaslighting someone, maybe love bombing someone like and where did that cycle of abuse kind of start to come in with an altruist versus maybe a covert.
15:00 (00:10):
Right, covert's not gonna be show off at all.
15:04 (00:10):
Covert is exactly what it seems to be covert.
15:07 (00:10):
They'll stab you in the back and then come round to the front of you and go, what happened?
15:13 (00:10):
Well, let's look for the person who did that.
15:15 (00:10):
Oh my God, and show all this concern, almost like Munchausen where a person, they, they do, they irritate the kid in some way that everybody comes over for help, so,.
15:26 (00:10):
, the covert narcissist won't draw that kind of attention.
15:31 (00:10):
The altruistic narcissist gets his or her narcissist's supply from the praises of coming in and saving the day.
15:41 (00:10):
You turn the data center back on or you fix the problem that we were, and it's all about getting that narcissistic supply.
15:48 (00:10):
Once you get that, once you find that narcissistic supply, you just keep doing more of the behavior to receive the supply.
15:57 (00:10):
And what happens if that supply is disrupted?
16:02 (00:10):
Well take away that supply or someone else is getting the, getting the accolades.
16:08 (00:10):
Oh, well, well, now it's a competition.
16:12 (00:10):
So, are you trying to steal my supply, or you're trying to steal my spotlight?
16:16 (00:10):
Well, that, that's a problem because I'm the big dog around here.
16:20 (00:10):
I get the praise and adoration.
16:22 (00:10):
I don't know who you are, so it's all kind of sabotage plots and I'm gonna get my power back and I'm gonna restore my narcissistic supply, so I'm gonna continue to do those things.
16:35 (00:10):
That that gives me glory that in the eyes of the people around me, I'm the hero.
16:42 (00:10):
I'm the one who comes in and saves the day.
16:44 (00:10):
So yeah, so then the, from an altruistic narcissist perspective, if they're not the hero, it's the whole problem, and they're gonna do whatever it takes to get back in the position of the hero.
16:58 (00:10):
Right, to restore that energy, to restore that energy, including sabotaging.
17:04 (00:10):
Another person and then and then being like, oh what happened or maybe sabotaging them and then coming and saving the day, right?
17:15 (00:10):
Yeah, it's, it's so many subplots to that.
17:19 (00:10):
And here's where having a a thorough personality assessment and it's a psychographic profile that looks at 24 traits is red zone, yellow zone, green zone, and, and you look at these traits and you go, OK.
17:37 (00:10):
This person's in the red zone and several of these traits, we think that may be problematic and we want you to go see Lynn, you know.
17:45 (00:10):
I, I, we had one guy, CEO guy, and he's like, well, we wanna take it.
17:50 (00:10):
I'm like, You sure you wanna look at some people downstream first because this is a very whole of mirror up to you.
17:57 (00:10):
You may not like what you see test and say, no, I know what you're trying to do.
18:01 (00:10):
No, we need to know what was in the room.
18:04 (00:10):
And wow, I've seen some CEOs that Probably shouldn't be CEOs.
18:11 (00:10):
Yeah, I imagine.
18:13 (00:10):
So I get like this whole altruism piece and, and there being the hero on saving the day.
18:21 (00:10):
What is the source for the covert person?
18:24 (00:10):
Like what's the source for them?
18:26 (00:10):
Like what, you know, the altruism person gets their energy from being the hero and being in the limelight in that way.
18:34 (00:10):
Covert person, where's the where's that powers for them?
18:39 (00:10):
The power with the covert narcissism is I know what's going on and you don't.
18:46 (00:10):
I, I know the explanation and because I, I'm keeping that, I, I don't want any exposure for that.
18:54 (00:10):
I, I, I know what happened to the budget because I went in and I, I, I did some things to the budget, and now this thing is blown up and everybody's looking around who did it.
19:04 (00:10):
Covert narcissists usually have a target and they have a mission and a goal and covert narcissists usually target people that are contrary to their existence.
19:20 (00:10):
Contrary.
So say more about that.
19:22 (00:10):
Contrary to their existence.
19:23 (00:10):
So if, if you're a threat, if you're smarter, if you're nicer, you get more accolades, you get more attention, the covert narcissist who would love to have that attention sees you getting off and they start, they start hating you for it.
19:42 (00:10):
Like, why are you getting all that attention?
19:44 (00:10):
And, and why am I not getting all those accolades?
19:46 (00:10):
Mhm.
19:47 (00:10):
And so they'll set out to sabotage all the stuff that's happening to you, but you won't see them do it.
19:54 (00:10):
It's very unobtrusive.
19:56 (00:10):
You won't know who put some Ipecac syrup in your yogurt.
20:04 (00:10):
Got it.
20:05 (00:10):
So, yeah, so it's, it's really the theme is the same.
20:09 (00:10):
They want power, they want attention, and the way they show up is different.
20:15 (00:10):
So the, the overt narcissist shows up flashy, shows up but can't, they, they're flashy and arrogant.
20:22 (00:10):
You can't tell them anything.
20:23 (00:10):
That's the overt one, they show up like that.
20:26 (00:10):
The, the covert 1 may only show up as sort of, may show up as quote unquote, I'm gonna say quote unquote normal.
20:34 (00:10):
Oh yeah, and you know you would never suspect when it and when they finally get caught people go, I never saw it coming.
20:42 (00:10):
They are so nice.
20:44 (00:10):
Oh my goodness, yeah, versus the, the overt or malignant narcissism term like Donald Trump.
20:52 (00:10):
You can see him coming a mile away.
20:54 (00:10):
Donald Trump's co-morbid with usually if you're narcissistic, you're usually co-morbid with something else, right,.
21:03 (00:10):
And so then you have the altruistic who shows up as the hero in the story, always, so they're that's there, so they, they just show up differently in the story.
21:15 (00:10):
Now here's the question I have because I think this is What probably a lot of people are asking who are listening.
21:22 (00:10):
As a person who might be impacted by a narcissist, how do I know?
21:29 (00:10):
Like, what does it feel like on the other side of that?
21:34 (00:10):
Because I think that's whether they show up as the hero, whether they show up as the covert, I mean, clearly, we don't even have to talk much about the malignant cause that is what it is.
21:43 (00:10):
But, but I, I think some of these lesser known ones, how can a person in the workplace who feels like something is, it feels toxic, how can they know, OK, this person is I'm being impacted in some way by some narcissistic tendencies or personalities.
22:03 (00:10):
What are some warning signs for them so that they can take care of themselves?
22:09 (00:10):
That's very important.
22:10 (00:10):
It's huge.
22:11 (00:10):
Bullying is, is the new thing that's hitting the, the workplace now.
22:15 (00:10):
So if you're a victim of being bullied, that is certainly one of the bullies or narcs.
22:22 (00:10):
So, and it shows up in that you feel like it's uncomfortable for you to come to work.
22:28 (00:10):
It's uncomfortable for you to sit in the cubicle next to this person.
22:31 (00:10):
when, if you're especially especially empath, I'm empath, highly call it highly sensitive people, introverts, empath nurturers, these are the people who are narcissistic suppliers, and they will be, they're going to attract.
22:51 (00:10):
People who need to be helped, healed, fixed, saved, or rescued.
22:58 (00:10):
Those are the characteristics and so if I'm a caring, empathic person, if any narcissists are in my face, they'll be attracted to me and I've done, I've been there, I hated it.
23:11 (00:10):
You know, we we talked about being uncomfortable and, and or bullying rather.
23:15 (00:10):
He talked about being bullied and it's probably a Useful for people to get bullying occurs in in multiple domains, right?
23:22 (00:10):
Like it's, I think when people think of bullying, they think of this overt verbal verbal assault, but it's not always just the overt assault so much as it could be like with withholding could be withholding of information or withholding of communication.
23:39 (00:10):
or passive aggressiveness, consistently passive aggressiveness or could be the like I, I have 11 client who was sharing that in her workplace meeting there was a person who spoke to everyone in the room except for her and I was just It was just very loud, right?
24:02 (00:10):
And so like that's like a form of bullying, withholding, we'll say affections for lack of a better word, because in the workplace we know that could be taken a certain way, but like withholding that connection, that's the withholding connection.
24:17 (00:10):
So like the there's the withhold in addition to the actual.
24:21 (00:10):
Act of assaulting or the aggressions, the act of exclusion, overt acts of exclusion or subtle acts of exclusion.
24:31 (00:10):
These are these types of things whether it be In verbal communication, in nonverbal communication, or in digital communication.
24:40 (00:10):
So that can be show up as well.
24:42 (00:10):
So yeah, that bullying and it, yeah, that's really interesting and I mean gaslighting us also, again, is a form of bullying.
24:49 (00:10):
So when people exit, especially highly sensitive people are usually the first to to exit.
24:57 (00:10):
And, and in the exit interview, what I'm hearing a lot of is the money's fine, it's the people who are in management who are driving folks off.
25:08 (00:10):
So one of the things we do in our corporate enterprise packages, we look at the rank and file, we look at your managers, and we can identify those managers who may have that issue.
25:20 (00:10):
And if, if you're running folks away or if you're, if people are exiting because of management, then it's, it's time we take a look at management and who's doing it and what are their motivations and It, it gets political, so doing an assessment one time and, and I, I, I did all these assessments and, and it's like this one stood out.
25:42 (00:10):
I'm like, well, who is this person?
25:43 (00:10):
I don't, I'm blind.
25:44 (00:10):
I don't know name, number, race, gen gender, I don't know any of it.
25:49 (00:10):
So I'm looking at a profile.
25:50 (00:10):
I'm like, wow, who's this?
25:52 (00:10):
Well, that's the president's son.
25:55 (00:10):
Oh, OK.
25:58 (00:10):
Who has free rein to do whatever he wants, terrorize people, doesn't really like the job, needs the money, father's there, who doesn't really rein them in, and, and the people around him complain about him, but no one does anything about it.
26:15 (00:10):
Yeah, yeah.
26:16 (00:10):
And so in terms of like the person who's on the lived experience side of someone who is a narcissist in, in any of those domains, is there anything else that, you know, you talk about them being like if you're an empath, a highly sensitive person, which by the way, I am as well, the discomfort or the of, of being near the person or is there anything else like that?
26:41 (00:10):
Shows up in the person who's being sort of the, who is the object of the narcissist's desire or power, you know, being drained or like what else comes up for them as well.
26:56 (00:10):
So, highly sensitive people in the workplace, you know, they're, they're going to attract.
27:02 (00:10):
It's, it's almost a target rich environment for narcissists to be people around people who actually care, want to get the job done, nurturing.
27:13 (00:10):
Highly intelligent people who who.
27:17 (00:10):
are motivated to, to play well with others in the sandbox.
27:21 (00:10):
And so narcissists are gonna naturally be attracted to them.
27:25 (00:10):
So if you find yourself in that situation, the first defense is no.
27:29 (00:10):
You have to, the, how you take care of yourself is your ability to say no, which establishes your ability to establish a boundary.
27:38 (00:10):
Boundaries that people know how you want to be treated.
27:41 (00:10):
So in, in establishing those two things, it's really important and Depending on how HR is structured, you should be able to go to HR and say, hey, this person is harassing me, tell him to leave me alone, and, and here's where it gets really, we've been in some political situations that I can identify them all day.
28:01 (00:10):
I can tell you make suggestion what to do, but it's the bottom line is gonna be up to the employer to execute.
28:08 (00:10):
Do we put you on a performance improvement plan?
28:10 (00:10):
Do we put you In some type of or coaching to, to mitigate that, but the for the person who is on the receiving end of it, you have to take your power back.
28:23 (00:10):
Because narcissists only understand 5 languages and, and here are the five languages wrote them down.
28:30 (00:10):
Shame, exposure, leverage, force, and consequence.
28:38 (00:10):
If, if it's not one of these 5 languages in one ear and out the other.
28:44 (00:10):
That's powerful.
28:46 (00:10):
Can you say those five things again?
28:48 (00:10):
Sure.
28:50 (00:10):
Shame, shame is all about exposure.
28:53 (00:10):
I don't want you to see that about me.
28:55 (00:10):
So shame, exposure, leverage.
28:59 (00:10):
Do you have enough leverage?
29:01 (00:10):
Donald Trump's in court.
29:04 (00:10):
That's leverage.
29:05 (00:10):
That leverage has a specific consequence to it, and if you've got a, a good enough vehicle, it'll have force.
29:14 (00:10):
Force is the actual.
29:17 (00:10):
Taking him and lock him up and and doing that.
29:20 (00:10):
So shame, exposure, leverage, force and consequence.
29:26 (00:10):
Those are the languages that most narcissists understand.
29:29 (00:10):
If you're not speaking that language.
29:32 (00:10):
You, you're wasting time.
29:34 (00:10):
And these are the ways that that people who are on their seating and can take care of themselves is by speaking those languages, setting those boundaries and setting and and here and here's the piece y'all, you can set the boundary, but if you don't hold your own boundary, then you're actually giving more fuel.
29:52 (00:10):
Here's where it gets really tricky because a lot of, I, I've spoken to a lot of victims and turns out they're also bullied in their families.
30:03 (00:10):
Yeah, here, here's the symmetry.
30:06 (00:10):
I come to work and, and wow, I'm recreating the same things that happen at home so that those boundaries, I, I don't have boundaries.
30:16 (00:10):
I don't have my anger available to me.
30:18 (00:10):
So if I didn't have my anger available to me at home, it's gonna be real hard for me to have my anger available to me at work.
30:26 (00:10):
And here's where it gets tricky because you have got to tap into that anger to say, hey.
30:32 (00:10):
Speak one of these five languages, take up for yourself and, and, and it's, it's foreign because it's like,, I don't know, I don't know how to take my power back.
30:42 (00:10):
I don't, I don't know how to have my anger available to me because I've never had my anger available to me.
30:47 (00:10):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's, it's important to be able to, to like experience and have available to you all of the emotions and understand.
30:56 (00:10):
them as informations because it's those things that will help you to know it's time to set a boundary.
31:02 (00:10):
It's that thing that will let you know it's time to set that boundary and that will allow you to to know in your body, oh this is coming up, that means that boundary is coming, they're coming close to it I need to hold that boundary.
31:14 (00:10):
And so I I think that's just so useful.
31:17 (00:10):
The other piece that it brings up for me as you talked about.
31:20 (00:10):
The possibility of them going to HR and I think this is the place and at the, at the end of the day it's the employer.
31:26 (00:10):
This is the place where, you know, the employers, this is where places where the employer can create psychological safety in the workplace because when they make it safe to report and they actually are congruent in their actions and taking actions inside of the Reporting, right?
31:45 (00:10):
So you can make it safe to report, but if there's no accountability, if there's no, and I talk a lot about this and when I do my psychological safety trainings, if there's no like actual accountability, then you're not creating trust within the organization, you're actually threatening and destroying trust in the organization.
32:00 (00:10):
So that psychological safety has to come with that accountability, that, that trust, and so the employers have to Be congruent in and of themselves and have the integrity and the courage and the, the all of the things to be able to enforce their own boundaries around the policies as well.
32:20 (00:10):
So I think that is extremely important.
32:24 (00:10):
There's the personal responsibility or the personal actions that can be taken by the person experiencing the harm.
32:30 (00:10):
And if the organization is safe enough to report, then the organization then has a responsibility to take action to Protect the person who was harmed and that's what creates an organization where people wanna stay and then in terms of like what you're doing in terms of your, your assessments, another way that I think that organizations can create safety is by using these types of assessments so you don't get these people in the first place, right, so that's, that's sort of like on the preventive side, but we all know that not everybody has taken your assessment and so there's a spectrum.
33:09 (00:10):
And it's important to understand along the spectrum what people can do, what at all levels, what people who are being harmed by the narcissist can do, what HR can do, what the organization can do, and how they can prevent future harm by utilizing things like this.
33:30 (00:10):
So I appreciate all the all of it, the all levels of it, the polarities and the spectrum of work to be done to be able to really start to dismantle toxicity in the workplace.
33:45 (00:10):
It's tough.
33:46 (00:10):
Yeah, the, the, the fish stinks from the head down.
33:50 (00:10):
So the first place,, the corporate environments that are implementing these changes start with the C-suite.
33:59 (00:10):
Absolutely, absolutely.
34:01 (00:10):
I always say that the Csuite sets the culture.
34:04 (00:10):
They are the ones I work with an organization here in Atlanta and we were doing our, our anti-racism work, started with the CEO and the CHRO and then to the, the senior leadership team.
34:20 (00:10):
And that transform that group and it's trickling down and they're having their directors and managers do our work with us, but they're coming into it excited because the C-suite set the culture and got them excited about the possible changes that and how it can benefit the whole organization.
34:42 (00:10):
So I think that is incredibly true, like the C.
34:46 (00:10):
We starting with the CEO cause sometimes you'll have the senior leadership doing stuff, but the CEO is like, oh, I'm exempt.
34:53 (00:10):
So the CEOs have to be involved in, in, in addition to the entire executive team.
34:59 (00:10):
Now one thing I will say just having known several CEOs is that sometimes, and this is just a a place that I'm exploring as well in in in my work is that Sometimes in in this work of psychological safety and trauma, sometimes the CEOs need their own container because there are things that they don't feel comfortable saying with their senior leadership team.
35:28 (00:10):
And so one of the places of exploration that I'm, that is how do we create the container, the safe space for them, because they're at the top and we all know it's lonely at the top.
35:41 (00:10):
They only, they are, they answer to the board members, of course, but still inside of the organization.
35:47 (00:10):
So it's just a, it's just a food for thought, something I've been thinking of, but, but coming back to, to, to you, I, I just You know, we could talk all day.
35:55 (00:10):
I'm looking at the, the time I'm like, oh, OK.
35:58 (00:10):
I really appreciate the work that you're doing with this assessment because it really is a preventive measure.
36:04 (00:10):
It is a place where organizations, it is a, it is an actionable step where organizations can begin to create safety by, you know, preventing.
36:16 (00:10):
Toxic people coming into toxic personalities I should say, coming into their workplace and where they can examine dynamics between personalities because while not all personalities are toxic personalities, dynamics can become toxic among personalities and when you know this, then you can actually manage that aspect of it.
36:38 (00:10):
So there's just all kinds of things that these kinds of assessments can do to make a workplace safer for the organization and to know then what's next to do, what kinds of trainings, what types of coaching, what types of, you know, educations or courses or programs can be done.
36:57 (00:10):
And so thanks for bringing this element into the conversation.
37:02 (00:10):
And I would really love it if you would share with the audience very quickly, how can they reach you if they are like, oh, let me explore this assessment.
37:12 (00:10):
How can they reach you and talk to you about it?
37:15 (00:10):
Sure.
Hiringsolutions.pro is the website and the assessment is $450 and we give you a 45 page debrief.
37:31 (00:10):
And you actually sit down and talk with me.
37:34 (00:10):
Now, one of the things that I emphasize, and this is really important for me, is I emphasize redemption.
37:43 (00:10):
OK, you, you can come in that way, but I believe in people being able to say, hey, this is going on, hey, let me talk to you.
37:54 (00:10):
Let's try these behaviors.
37:55 (00:10):
I know that in order to create the brain hates change.
38:01 (00:10):
So, in order to create a change, we have to do a behavior 28 times in a row through inculcation.
38:09 (00:10):
So, say, hey, you know, here, here are some behaviors that I want you to try out and, and go back into the workplace.
38:17 (00:10):
And begin this process of redemption, because the, the inside, I'm, I'm also looking at what's driving this person.
38:25 (00:10):
Are they in the adult state or are they in the child state?
38:28 (00:10):
We try to get them out of that child state and into that prefrontal cortex where I can make adult decisions and not let my child part get in there because once my child part and it's the most fluid switch ever, once I'm in my child energy.
38:46 (00:10):
Scorch earth.
38:48 (00:10):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
38:50 (00:10):
So hiringuts.pro.
38:54 (00:10):
Hiringuts.pro, y'all, we will have this in the show notes so that you can reach out to Lynn and ask him and, and, and bring him on to, to give these assessments to To your folks, your people, your staff, your leaders, your executives.
39:12 (00:10):
So please go to hiringsolutions.pro and check out my friend Lynn and share this episode, share this episode with a colleague, with a,, a co-worker, with a, a, a leader in your organization.
39:29 (00:10):
With a friend, with a family member who may be working in an organization because I think this is so important.
39:37 (00:10):
So many people are dealing with mental health issues in the workplace, and some of it has to do with the dynamics of toxicity that exist on all levels and when we can have leaders making organizations safer for people to work for their staff and their leaders to work in.
39:59 (00:10):
Then that will begin to help.
40:01 (00:10):
It's not by, it won't by any means mitigate it altogether, but where, if you're a place where you go to for 8 to 10 hours to work needs to be a safe and healthy environment.
40:15 (00:10):
So with that, I leave you, and of course you all know what I do.
40:19 (00:10):
This I'm all about helping people build the skills of the nuances of trauma-informed communication for psychological safety.
40:31 (00:10):
You all know that I, my communication that transforms course is now accredited for 22.
40:39 (00:10):
Continuing medical education credits.
40:41 (00:10):
So if you're interested in learning more about that, I'll have that link also in the show notes and you can discover more about how to bring me in to speak or do workshops on communication and psychological safety by going to my websiteindreammapping Academy.com.
40:57 (00:10):
So with that, thank you again, Lynn, for being with me again.
41:02 (00:10):
This is not the last time we always bring you back.
41:05 (00:10):
This actually this conversation as we can see, we have 45 minutes in.
41:11 (00:10):
It is a multiple episode conversation.
41:14 (00:10):
We definitely will come back and talk a little bit more about the other kinds of personalities that you mentioned and how they can create toxic dynamics.
41:24 (00:10):
So thank you again.
41:25 (00:10):
And audience, thank you for listening.
41:28 (00:10):
Without you there is no podcast.
41:30 (00:10):
You all are the bridge to a new kind of conversation and with that, I appreciate you.
41:37 (00:10):
So until we see you next time, my good people, stay empowered.
41:42 (00:10):
Thank you for joining me on today's episode.
41:45 (00:10):
We truly appreciate our listeners because without you there is no podcast.
41:50 (00:10):
I really hope you enjoyed today's episode and that it gave you fresh insights and practical tools to elevate your communication and build trust and safety in all areas of your life from leading your teams to strengthening your relationships at home.
42:03 (00:10):
If today's conversation resonated with you, please take a moment to subscribe the podcast, share this episode, and leave us a 5 star review.
42:12 (00:10):
Your support helps us reach more people looking to enhance their relationships, their leadership, and the communication in every area of their life.
42:21 (00:10):
If you are ready to take your communication to the next level, I encourage you to check out our communication that transforms online course.
42:28 (00:10):
This course dives deep into creating psychological safety, mastering trauma informed communication that allows you to build behavior.
42:36 (00:10):
Flexibility and tackle any circumstance in your life.
42:40 (00:10):
You'll learn practical strategies for handling difficult conversations, navigating conflict, and cultivating trust in a way that truly resonates with the people around you and leaves them feeling seen, heard, respected, valued and welcome.
42:54 (00:10):
This course is designed to help you transform not only how you lead, but how you show up in all your relationships, whether in the boardroom with your.
43:01 (00:10):
Teams are at home with your family.
43:03 (00:10):
Check out the course at mindremapping academy.com/TICC to learn more, see the full course catalog and register.
43:15 (00:10):
This link will also be in the show notes.
43:18 (00:10):
That's www.inndremapping academy.com/TICC.
43:26 (00:10):
Finally, if these topics resonate with you and you want to bring them to your department, your team or your organization, I'd love to speak with you.
43:36 (00:10):
Reach out to me and invite me in for a workshop or a conference tailored to elevate your organization's trust, collaboration, communication safe.
43:46 (00:10):
and belonging.
43:47 (00:10):
You can learn more and reach out to me by visiting mindremapping academy.com backslash corporate-programs.
43:57 (00:10):
Remember, change happens one intentional conversation at a time with one small shift in how we connect, listen, and lead.
44:06 (00:10):
Keep listening with intention and communicating with clarity, and until the next episode, stay empowered.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.