May 5, 2025 • 38 mins
Floyd Arnold founded Full Swing Golf in 1986, and it's now grown into the biggest U.S. producer of multi-sport simulators, changing the way people play indoor golf with its cutting-edge tech. The company, now called Full Swing Simulators, runs its operations from Carlsbad, California, and leads the industry in sports technology innovation.
Full Swing's tech has come a long way, moving from dual-tracking to tri-tracking, giving players the most realistic ball flight simulation you can get. You can play on the world's most famous courses and try out more than 30 different sports. They've combined high-speed cameras with infrared light technology to show exactly how you're hitting the ball and give you instant feedback.
Some of golf's biggest names use Full Swing simulators, including Tiger Woods, Jordan Spieth, and Jason Day. They've also landed some impressive partnerships - they're now the Official Licensed Simulator of the PGA TOUR and work with TGL, a new high-tech golf league.
Whether you're looking for home entertainment, a place to practice, or fun activities for the whole family, Full Swing has got you covered. Their simulators let you play on more than 84 championship courses and try out 13+ different sports.
Bruin Capital saw Full Swing's potential and bought a controlling stake in 2021, hoping to turn it into something like Peloton but for golf. This move has helped Full Swing grow even stronger and explore new ways to innovate.
Full Swing keeps pushing what's possible with golf simulation tech, changing how people practice and play golf no matter the weather or where they are. They've earned their reputation in golf tech by constantly innovating and partnering with top sports organizations and pro athletes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:35):
What's up guys?
Welcome to the Behind the GolfBrand Podcast.
This week I have my good friend, Evan Alsadden from Full Swing.
If you guys don't know whatFull Swing is or are, or the
proper pronunciation, then youprobably have never been in a
simulator or watched TGL or knowTiger Woods is, so you probably
(00:55):
shouldn't even be playing golf.
So I have on the show today.
We're going to talk abouteverything Full Swing, all the
new stuff they're doing, we'retalking about TGL, we're going
to talk about everything.
So welcome to the show.
Thank you, pleasure to be on.
So where are you located?
Evan (01:11):
looks like you're a bar yeah uh, we've got a couple
little hidden uh takeaway barsin the in the office, so we call
this one the dive bar.
But yeah, it's where I can kindof get away and and talk to you
.
So yeah, we're in carlsbad, iswhere h uh hq is um now, are you
from carlsbad, are you fromsomewhere else?
(01:32):
No, I grew up in la canada, uh,just outside of pasadena, so in
the la area, but now reside insan diego and my wife and two,
two young kids, it's a blast.
Paul (01:44):
Where do you live?
Evan (01:44):
in san diego, like I'm in san marcos, oh yeah it's about
yeah, it's about 15, 20 minutesaway from the office
everything's like it's expensivethere.
Paul (01:54):
Man, san diego, I know I would love.
I would live there a heartbeat.
I love san diego.
That's like my favorite.
The whole area is awesome.
It's just so expensive it's.
Evan (02:04):
It's so expensive.
I mean, we we bought a house acouple years ago and I just
remember thinking, oh my gosh,we're overpaying.
And then interest rates go up,the housing prices are going up.
Who knows what's going tohappen.
But I feel lucky to have founda place, because I needed one
with the, the little onesrunning around where were you
living before?
Paul (02:21):
like downtown ish or something.
Evan (02:23):
We were renting in Solana Beach.
So yeah, just yeah, just southof us, about 25 minutes or so,
but yeah, it's great down there.
It's just extremelyunaffordable.
Paul (02:36):
Yeah, everything south of like I don't know Bakersfield is
affordable, right.
Evan (02:47):
So how long have you been with full swing then?
So I've been with the companyfor probably close to eight
years now.
Seven half eight years, yeah,so it's been a little while.
It's kind of funny you justkind of look up and times flown
by, but yeah, it's been a while.
We came to this office, I wantto say about six years ago, so
we're doing about a year and ahalf, two years and a kind of a
(03:08):
split.
We had a split distribution ofthe workforce.
We had kind of like a we worktype of set up for sales and
marketing and then kind ofoperations, fulfillment, finance
was all out of Rancho Bernardoand yeah, so it's.
It all came together at thisoffice.
Paul (03:27):
I don't know if you've been it's a pretty fun spot,
though I think next time I comeout there I want to come see you
guys like do.
I did that last summer.
I did like two behind the brandbehind the brand kind of
youtube videos.
One is with sunday golf who'sin?
That used to be in the sundaybags, you know they're yeah
their office was like right nextto, uh, the baseball.
(03:48):
What's the park called overthere, I just can't think of the
name of it with padres play,yeah, that other team, echo,
yeah, by peco, um, and then Idid a behind one.
I got behind the scenes videowith vessel too, and like saw
the whole facility and like sawit was cool, dude, like it's
nice, yeah, like just to seethat, like people can get a
better taste of, like you know,because I think it's like yeah
(04:12):
you know like, oh, let's um, andI'm not gonna name it.
I went to another place once too, but they wouldn't let me film
in there and I was like, well,what the hell am I here for?
This is boring.
Like, oh, we gotta Google PR tomake sure it's okay.
I'm like dude.
Why am I here filming?
If I have to be like vetted,we're open to it.
Do the tour or not.
Yeah, we're open to it.
(04:33):
It's a fun spot here.
Paul (04:34):
It's fun, it's just like.
Yeah, so like, when you startedlike, I guess my first question
is have you always been intogolf or you like you know like?
Did you start like, were youlike some, really like enum or
some you?
Evan (04:50):
know, like when you're a kid no, no, that's not me by any
means.
I was always interested in golf.
I mean, my, my um, parents aregolfers and I was fortunate to
have access to a country club,but I I spent my time at that
club in the pool ordering foodon their tab.
So I wasn't, you know, makinggood use of the golf course.
I didn't have the patiencegrowing up for golf, even though
(05:13):
it was always around, always onTV.
But I really started to getinto it, like I think a lot of
people do, kind of in thecollege.
You know, right after college,picking it back up again, again.
I could always hit a ball, butjust never straight, and I still
struggle with that, as as manyof us do.
But, um, yeah, no, wasn't,didn't come from the golf
industry.
When I came here, I was in thecpg world working for one of the
(05:35):
conglomerates.
You know that kind of have halfthe shelf at a walmart or
target, uh under, uh, new brands.
Um, it under Null Brands.
It was Null Rubbermaid at thetime.
I was with them and then cameover to Full Swing about seven
and a half, eight years ago.
It's just been a roller coaster.
It's been great though.
We've done such an amazing jobat growing and scaling the
(06:00):
business, creating new products.
It's been exciting to be a partof it.
Paul (06:06):
Full Swing's been around for a long time right, yeah, a
long time.
Core brand.
It's one of the original, ifnot the original it probably is
is the og of the space.
Evan (06:15):
I would imagine it's.
It's around 40 years, uh, old,you know, and it's gone through
a change of ownership throughoutthose years, obviously.
But, um, I think, really, whenour ceo ryan daughters and my
boss, our ceo jason fierro, theykind of came in, um, I think
two years prior to when Istarted something like that, and
(06:42):
came in, came in with a privateequity group and really
invested in the business and youreally started to see it just
take off when you startedgetting the right people in the
right seats.
So, yeah, it was pretty fun tobe a part of that.
Paul (06:50):
I mean it's really cool too.
I think about you guys is likeI feel when you guys came out
with kit right, because it'slike you you had to be in the
sim space to know what you guys,who you guys were and what you
were doing.
But then when the kid came out,it was like it opening up to a
newer audience, right, or anaudience that maybe couldn't
afford the, the big jama, youknow yeah I mean it was.
Evan (07:15):
It's funny.
I I'll never forget my secondand and again, I don't come from
this world.
So my sec I think it's like mysecond or third day on the job
our ceo goes, hey, I want you togo build a launch monitor.
And I'm like, well, you knowgetting on google like what's a
launch monitor?
Because I had no clue.
(07:37):
I mean, I understood theconcept of uh simulation and
home right and and obviouslydoing my diligence on the
company before I came in, butthen I started to understand
what it was and the utility init and um having someone like
tiger who's has a goodrelationship, uh, with both ryan
and jason, you know, say, hey,um, I'm using this track man and
(08:01):
he had a whole bunch of issueswith his track man and thought
it would be a great opportunityfor us to build something that
was reliable, accurate.
I mean, we we do hold ourselvesum in high regard as far as
accuracy.
If we feel like without that,everything else you know can't
really, you can't reallycelebrate the benefits of these
(08:21):
tracking systems.
You know user experience, thedifferent games, the courses,
this, and that you really can'tum buy into that unless you feel
really good about the numbersthat you're especially somebody
like tiger, right, like he'slike hey, I'm gonna put my name
on something
Paul (08:35):
but, you know what I'm saying like I mean, we all like
trackman's around forever, right, and they're like totally,
there's a bear in the room likeeverybody knows, okay, it's
trackman.
Evan (08:44):
But like yeah, I feel like trackman has a massive
advantage because they well,there's a kleenex of the
industry I mean they yeah of thelaunch monitor space.
Paul (08:52):
I got in with coaches and they were the first.
I mean like every you know, butit's.
But I know there's like a likeI don't have a track man because
I can afford one, but like Iknow that for tiger to stand
behind something like you don'tsee that right.
Like was no not technology,there's always misconceptions.
Evan (09:11):
I think, too, whenever someone sees an athlete or an
ambassador affiliated with acompany, that he'll promote
something just because it's inhis financial interest, I can
even though I don't know with100% certainty, with 99.9%
certainty can say he wouldn't bedoing it because he thinks he's
going to get a bigger check inthe mail.
(09:32):
I mean, you've heard storiesabout TaylorMade and him feeling
like a club is you know a halfyard off, like where it should
be.
I mean, that's the level ofdetail that he expects, and so
you know, his big thing was, youknow, the most critical data
points as far as what he wasconcerned were like carry
distance and spin rates andmaking sure that it was reliable
(09:53):
, which, at the time, asTrackMan, was giving him
problems.
And it was an opportunity forthe company to invest in a
complementary product to thein-home simulators that we made,
a complimentary product to thein-home simulators that we made,
and so that technology that wepicked, a radar-based
application, made total sensefor outdoor full-flight tracking
, because the Doppler radar isessentially sampling the ball
(10:17):
throughout its entire flight, soyou know the velocity and then
where it is in space over time,the movement of the ball,
whereas the other launchmonitors in that category.
We have the opportunity tobasically take a path of what
core tech do we want to useright Camera-based technology,
like your, like the Foresight GCquads or, you know, the lower
(10:42):
end, the Skytrax and weintentionally went after radar
because it truly is the besttech for the outdoors.
And then what we found was, youknow, kind of certain, uh,
serendipitously, is that right?
Paul (10:58):
something like that uh, what is the word?
Yeah, I understand.
Evan (11:02):
Is it serendipitously maybe?
Paul (11:05):
Yes, serendipitously.
Oh, I think I said it.
Evan (11:09):
Yeah, I think that's right .
Teamwork Slackman and Titleistwere working on this RCT ball
that allowed radar launchmonitors to essentially solve
problems that they had indoorsfor the longest time, which I
think in prior years was reallythe advantage of the
camera-based products, and sothe advantage indoors for
(11:31):
camera-based products havesignificantly diminished because
of some of the differentinnovations that have kind of
just so happened in parallel toour development, which is pretty
nice, yeah kind of interestingtoo right when like things are
like I read this book once andthey're like there's like so
many things we don't seehappening, that like we think we
(11:53):
see everything's going on, butthere's like things happening in
whatever the universe,whatever's happening that like
you don't know what's happeningtoo, so it all like kind of
falls into place.
Paul (12:01):
You're like what the hell?
Evan (12:03):
Yeah, it was perfect timing, but we're we're really,
really proud of that product anda lot, of, a lot of folks talk
about the price point cause weprice it at $5,000, but it is
truly just as accurate as atrack man, more accurate in
other areas.
You know, I'm sure track manhas advantages in a couple areas
.
It was for $15,000 or whateverright, or $20,000 or whatever
(12:26):
they're at $20,000 around thatrange, and you know we came to
market with a product that wasoptimized.
We have PhDs working on it thatcome from the radar space really
the drone space and automotiveas well and so they helped us
develop something with the sameperformance capabilities without
(12:47):
having to essentially use twoseparate radar boards in our
device.
We can do it with one.
That cost savings we get fromthose radar boards, which are
expensive, we transfer to theconsumer.
And that's not an easy story totell and it might not have made
sense when I just told it toyou, but the cost of goods goes
down because we were thebeneficiaries of the gains in
(13:08):
technology and so because ofthat, we're able to transfer
those savings through to thecustomer and instead of just
making a bigger margin andselling it for 15, 20 grand, we
want to democratize golf andgive young golfers who are
aspiring to turn amateur oramateur or pro, whatever it
might be, an opportunity to usethis stuff and feel pretty
(13:28):
confident so what year did thekit come out?
I can't remember 21, 20 um 20, Iwant to say 22, yeah what I
think is interesting too is theprice point.
Paul (13:44):
Right, because you're saying you know, and I think,
like because you're the first,I'm going somewhere with this,
right, so you're the first atthat price point.
And then it's like okay, nowyou're starting to see other but
everybody else starting tofollow.
Right, like you have your sub,you know everyone's sub thousand
, right, that's the race, thebottom.
Then you have sub 2000.
People are like kind of bitch alittle bit.
(14:05):
You know, like oh, but you'regetting more and more better
technology right from where youpay.
And then you see, like the 3000unit come out two years ago,
right, which is the sky trackseries.
And now it's like you guys werealready out of five, right or
right on five.
But then what carmen comes outfive months ago, a five thousand
dollar unit, right, so it'slike, oh, so it's almost like I
(14:27):
find it very interesting, right,because it's like, not, it's,
it's a race to the top, withtrying to get the getting as
much juice out of the system asyou can without having to spend
a bajillion dollars on it,exactly exactly now.
Evan (14:42):
I mean that the the price gamut $500,000 to $20,000, and
you have all these products inbetween, and so for us, I mean
my boss says it's the best, it'sthe best kept secret in golf,
but you're starting to see notonly just the organic adoption
of it at the various levels, buta little friend in TGL had the
(15:05):
opportunity to give thisbusiness, for, you know, part of
the tracking solution that thatwe accomplished with kit to any
one of those brands and theydidn't, and that's a tech
infused golf league exactly it'sall tech right like it's like I
mean, and I think what'sinteresting about you know,
(15:26):
switching to tgl?
Paul (15:27):
it's like it was cool to watch.
Even the stadium was amazing.
It was fun.
Did you go to any events?
Evan (15:34):
you probably know everyone , yeah yeah, I mean not every
one of them.
I I was a big part of umsetting it all up kind of the
development, and so I I probablytraveled about seven times in
the last year and it's a bigdeal for me to travel because of
the kiddos and yeah the factthat it's on the united states
and it's not like I mean it'sanother corner of the united
(15:55):
states but it's such a greataccomplishment for the business
too.
It really um was a testament towhat what we've done on not just
kit, which is a big part of um,tgl, but ultimately our virtual
green technology, making thatgreen turn and undulate it's a
lot of work yeah, I mean it'slike you're
Paul (16:16):
starting.
You know people are gonna talkcrap or you know like, oh, you
know, it's simulator golf andit's like dude they're.
It's like technology is jumpingin leaps and bounds and it's
being accepted yeah, right, soit's like dude there.
It's like technology is jumpingin leaps and bounds and it's
being accepted, yeah, right, soit's like it's.
I mean, it's only gonna getbetter, more each year because
it's gonna have bettertechnology, better stuff.
We learn from mistakes, we makethings cooler, or whatever it
(16:37):
might be.
And it was still fun to watchand it's still cool to see.
Um, yeah, I think with tgl,what's happening, tg like right
now.
Evan (16:47):
Is it like because of this , everyone's playing now, right,
like well it just finished, um,season one, and I think it's
been an overwhelming successfrom tgl's perspective.
The viewership, which is I'msure it's probably viewership,
which is I'm sure it's probablyviewership, sponsorship, you
know, the combination of thosethings have exceeded
(17:08):
expectations by a pretty fairmargin, I'd say, which is great
for everybody involved,obviously, and, I think, great
for the game of golf.
You're seeing the viewershipfor that skew lower and the
audience, I think, doubled.
So they doubled theparticipation that they were
(17:32):
expecting and the audienceskewed lower than they had
anticipated, which is a goodthing because they are trying to
bring, you know, a youngerdemographic to the game of golf,
and so I think it really hit alot of different marks.
Now there is so much more in theTGL world that is going to be
happening between now and Season2.
Whether it's adding new teams,we have a whole list of things
(17:56):
that we want to accomplish as agroup.
But you kind of saw, fromEpisode 1 through the finals,
they, from a productionstandpoint, know, changed so
much to the tech.
We we were monitoring it butmade notes on things that, um,
opportunities, that that wecould have to improve different
things, automation, um, creatingmore intrigue in certain areas,
(18:19):
um, but again you're, you'rethrowing some.
You know you're throwing a dartat the board and it's an
overwhelming success.
We feel very honored to havebeen such a big part of it.
Also, the on-screen graphicsthe game was of our doing as
well.
That's a lot.
(18:40):
It was a pretty bigaccomplishment because it does
touch scrapping technology, thegame itself, the green, and then
the architecture that allowsfor shots to be ingested and
things to move.
All that's us, and I'm reallyproud of the team.
We've got such a smart, capablegroup that it took something
(19:02):
like that to focus and reallyshow what we can do if given the
opportunity what's it?
Paul (19:08):
what's cool, too, is like also being the first to do it
you know, like someone else's.
You have lots of competitorsout there.
They all could have donesomething like this.
They didn't.
So, yeah, kind of do like now.
Yeah, if guys don't know, like,how does the like full swing
kit work?
Is, is it just Doppler?
I know there's a camera on ittoo.
I know that.
Evan (19:28):
Yeah, there's a camera, yeah, camera, doppler radar.
So essentially, you put yourunit down about 8 to 10 feet
behind the outdoors, you put aball down, use our application,
which I think is another greatpart of the experience.
I think we really kicked button the user experience as well
(19:48):
in the application, and it's asimple setup guide.
I mean, it's really easy to getup and going, and I think that
was a big opportunity that wehad in front of us was to reduce
the amount of setup time withsome of the other products in
the space.
So you use your mobileapplication, you connect to the
unit, you align your unit to thetarget and then it allows the
(20:09):
system to do its thing, and soDoppler radar tracks the ball
flight throughout its entirety.
We've got a camera on board thathas a video grab for each shot
that you take and, depending onyour subscription plan and
there's only two, really one,which is do you want data and
video over time so you pay forstorage?
(20:29):
It's not.
It's very easy to understandwhy there's a subscription there
, but you get basically all thefeatures that we offer in the
premium subscription andcurrently we're offering that
for 99 a month to $199, butwe're adding in a pretty fun
feature here coming up soon inthe Full Swing Combine, which is
a fun experience that'll belaunching here in the next
(20:52):
couple weeks.
Paul (20:54):
Is that a new software upgrade, the Combine.
Evan (20:56):
It's an update to the application, the mobile
application for tablet.
Paul (21:02):
That's cool.
Now people can get a Full Swingkit.
They can buy the kit and likehit it into a net if they want,
or they can just totally change.
But you guys also do like youcan buy like almost like build
your like a diy, like kind ofhelp, not really pure diy, but
almost like they can buy theirown setup.
Right, so you have it.
Evan (21:23):
Yeah, you can exactly I mean, all you really need to
know is I would say, like thetightest you'd want to go
indoors, eight feet behind youfor the unit, you know, eight
feet in front of you for a netor a screen.
Um, you can do a diy kind of Idon't say hack job, but you know
what I mean grab all yourfavorite components, yeah, or
kit, yeah.
That's a lot of right and weoffer, obviously, if you just,
(21:48):
if you're new to the space andyou just want soup to nuts, the
whole thing, we offer that aswell.
But, um, yeah, it works indoorsand it's fantastic.
It does really well bothoutdoors and indoors.
And, um, it's a fun littlelittle product that fits in a.
We have a nice little carrycase as well that's shock
absorbent and kind of waterproofso you can fit into your golf
(22:09):
bag, which was a big part of thedesign aspect, actually of the
unit itself was to make surepeople can use it on range but
then stowed away if they want togo out and play around a golf
how long did the battery?
last, if you're out, the rangebattery lasts a long time.
I mean it's it's probably atthe top of the spectrum.
I mean, again, you kind of dothe competitive assessments
(22:31):
every now and then, but at thetime when we did it, I mean it
performs, I would say about sixhours.
I think we probably marked itfive hours, but just in my
practice, like how I've used it,my use case, it'll last it
around six hours, even more, um,depending on usage, right,
because every time you hit aball you're processing data.
(22:53):
So, depending on frequency, youknow five hours is a safe bet
to say it's what we market, so Ishould probably go with that,
but in practical terms probablyabout six hours for most people
in practical terms, probablyabout six hours for most people.
Paul (23:10):
Um now, what I like about the full swing kit, though at
least it's like how you have thedata like all on the actual
unit yourself, like you don'thave you don't have to bring
right.
I mean, yeah, you can bring anipad with you or an iphone or
whatever, right, but like youdon't have to rely on that to be
like what was the yardage islike you can literally yeah like
okay, and it's big and it'sbright, it's like right there,
it's not like all weird.
You know what I mean.
Like yeah, I think that waskind of a big thing too, because
you see a lot of people kind offollow suit after you guys did
(23:33):
that it was.
Evan (23:34):
it was very clear during research that that was an
opportunity that no one wascashing in on and, you know,
granted we the execution of itwas in an OLED screen, which is,
you know, cool and it pops moreto your point.
Paul (23:48):
Oh, the brightness outside too.
Right With the sun, like yeah,it's like you're not, like still
pops, yeah, like in a brightday it just seemed like such low
hanging fruit based on theresearch that we did.
Evan (24:00):
It was a little bit of a surprise at the lack of
competition when it came to that.
A little bit, uh, of a surpriseat the lack of competition when
it came to that.
But we try to be as least youknow invasive as possible when
it comes to someone's uhpractice regiment and so if a
simple glance is all you want todo and you don't want to
interface with a phone or atablet or a watch, you don't
have to yeah, you don't reallyneed to have, like your uh
(24:22):
internet connection either youknow, what I mean like, or
that's a problem too.
Paul (24:27):
I feel like if you sometimes is like when you try
to bring like an ipad with you,like that thing's gonna overheat
, like you know, like yeah, theipad itself, the iphone it can,
yeah, I mean just way before thelaunch monitor is going to way,
way, way before, yeah.
So then you're like now you'recompletely hosed because now you
like you came and read becauseyour thing showing like the over
(24:48):
here, yeah, you're absolutelyright.
Evan (24:52):
I I remember doing some testing out in um Indian Wells.
My folks live in Indian Wellsfor part of the year and it was
a really hot day and I figuredwhy not stress test the uh
combination?
So I went outside for about 30,40 minutes and I want to say
like 95 degree weather and I putmy phone.
You know what I mean Like it'sjust.
Yeah, I mean it's dry heat, butyeah, I put my phone in the
(25:16):
carry case for the launchmonitor.
As I was using the launchmonitor, my phone was
overheating before the unit.
So yeah, you're right.
Paul (25:25):
So let me ask some questions.
I don't know the answer, like Iknow the answer, but well, I
don't really so.
Can somebody use the full swingkit on regular grass, or does
it have to be on turf?
Evan (25:37):
oh, it can be on regular grass or turf, the surface
material does not matter umthat's what I figured.
Paul (25:45):
I know some brands I learned the hard way.
At some brands you have to haveturf, which I'm like that's
completely pointless, because Ilive in arizona and we don't
turf really unless you'reindoors.
So interesting.
But yeah, that's one thing.
The other question I had too isum, like where can people get a
(26:08):
full swing kit?
Don't you have like kit kits,like a like, like a full like?
I remember reading thatsomewhere too.
You just literally get all inone box, like all this stuff yes
, so we offer the the packagebundle with the launch monitor
so we we have a um kind of anindoor solution that's not just
your ipad connected to aprojector.
Evan (26:30):
We actually have um our golf course software that we use
for our simulators available, acondensed version of that
available for the kit, what wecall kit studio experience.
So I think you get around 17 uhcourses, um, and we've got a
relationship with the tour, soyou've got some exclusivity as
(26:50):
far as courses go, some of thetpc courses.
That's cool and um.
You can connect it through a pcand, you know, have your kind
of full in-home simulationexperience with kit being the
driving driving force behind it.
Um.
And then we have, you know, ourmobile application, which again
is much more geared towardspractice with the driving range
(27:10):
and this new combine um featurewhich is coming out soon, which
is essentially um, a partnershipthat we have with a group uh
called clipped.
They're based out of london butthey are a data science team.
That um has a proprietaryscoring system and gives you
shot quality, so you kind ofpick a distance, your combine
(27:31):
distances I want to work on 60yard, 80 yard shots, whatever it
might be, and based on theiralgorithm and what our unit's
telling you, you know how faryou hit the ball, whether you're
indoors or outdoors, it'll giveyou this unique scoring system
which allows you to transfer youknow, that skillset to
(27:52):
on-course play.
I think that's the best way tokind of take a one-to-one from
practice, really applying whatyou're doing in that practice
setting to on-course, which I'mreally excited about.
It's really fun.
But yeah, you've got those twooptions connecting that studio
to a mobile application or tothe kind of full PC software if
(28:13):
you want to play all the coursesso can you play some courses on
the on the app you can't playany courses on the app but again
you can get the PC version ofour 17 courses and practice
areas and long drive competitionclosest to Penn all that sorts
of stuff on the PC version ofgolf.
Paul (28:36):
Now with that, does the kit then plug in?
If you're doing it to a PC, isthat using just the Bluetooth or
the Wi-Fi, or do you have touse a cable?
Evan (28:45):
You can use Wi-Fi or you can USB-C into it.
So you send a USB-C to thelaunch monitor, to the computer,
and then it drives theexperience.
Paul (28:56):
Yeah, and then if somebody has a projector or something,
they can plug everything to thewhole system and make it look
cool.
Exactly, but you also have theone that has a net, too, right?
Or people can just hit into anet and you can have your
computer right.
(29:06):
Totally.
Paul (29:07):
You can have a laptop right there and you can be like,
okay, that's cool.
Evan (29:11):
A lot of people will do that exactly.
They'll either use their laptopor they'll connect their laptop
to a tv screen yeah, oh exactly.
Paul (29:19):
Or tv screen, right, yeah, all tvs now have that
functionality.
But then you also don't makejust the kit like.
Then you have like your higherend, like commercial stuff yes,
yeah, we've got our yourflagship product?
Evan (29:33):
yeah, flagship yeah, so our um, we've got simulators
that you know.
Again, that's the.
It's been the bread and butterof the business for 40 years, as
I mentioned.
Yeah, so it's evolved so much.
We've got a state-of-the-artsystem here that uses camera and
infrared technology and it'sgot all the IP around it.
(29:54):
But it's the best in the gamereal-time transitioning of the
ball into the virtual worldbased on kind of the tech and
where it sits, and that's reallyimportant when it comes to good
golfers wanting to use this asa practice tool.
But obviously it's really funand entertaining as well.
Right, you can do so much withit.
Paul (30:16):
It's even higher level of accuracy, right, because you
have laser and you have camerasystem and then you have Well,
you're indoors.
Evan (30:25):
Indoors again, there's no launch monitor out there can
yield the same level ofprecision and accuracy as what
our tech can do indoors.
And that's just a function ofus haven't been in the space for
so long and the the um thesystem and how we set it up.
(30:45):
We kind of put these two uhcurtains of tech before the
screen and and the ball passesthrough these kind of curtains
and it creates a vector andgives uh the golfer the ability
to hit the ball anywhere on thescreen and you'll see the ball
enter the virtual world exactlywhere that ball hit.
Paul (31:04):
I hate lag.
Lag is so annoying, dude, whenyou're like hitting a ball and
it's like you hit it and thenyou're like waiting.
Looking at your watch, you'relike, oh, there's the ball, but
you've already had a cup ofcoffee and like yeah right.
Evan (31:16):
It's not even just lag, though I mean that's one part of
it that I think the bigger partis.
Like if you hit on an old usetrackman as an example.
I mean you hit on a track band,if the ball's starting from the
center of the screen every time, even if you hit one right or
left.
What I'm saying is if you hitone top right of the simulator
screen, it's going to come outtop right, really Like a push
(31:40):
draw.
Paul (31:41):
You really see it?
It's not like, oh, I hit itstraight A hundred percent Full
shade and it's straight.
That thing looks like you hitthe screen straight, but that
really was like over there,right, it's on three fairways
over.
Evan (31:52):
Yeah, everybody else starts at the center bottom
center of the screen.
Paul (31:56):
You hit it in the middle of the fairway at every shot.
Evan (31:58):
Good job, right, right yeah so that that's I mean,
that's been um again, ourachilles heel, um it's just
making sure that this thing isalways.
We're continuously improving itum year over year and the
experiences that we offer noware so cool.
Right, we're not just I mean,we are pretty hardcore into golf
, but we do offer really fun andentertaining games, and we've
(32:21):
got our full swing games packwhich has a myriad of
experiences you can, you knowfootball challenges soccer,
challenges baseball, you name itso we've got a ton of different
experiences, yeah.
Yeah, home run Derby.
Paul (32:36):
But is?
But?
Is that but that for the, theceiling mounted unit, or is that
you can use that in the kit?
Evan (32:42):
Not for the kit, at least for now.
We are getting into baseballwith kit though that is a good
segue if you wanted to do thatbut we are using the knowledge
we gained and gleaned from golfin object tracking with radar,
and we're going to be launchinga baseball product here.
(33:03):
Uh, very soon, oh I know, thatit will be for the masses I want
, I want to try that yeah, it'llbe pretty fun, that's gonna be
cool, I think that's like it's.
Paul (33:17):
It's interesting like stuff starts in golf but then it
easily transpires any othersport right, like soccer or
baseball or shooting or like youknow what I mean.
Like I, yeah, like race carsimulators and airplane sims
like that people have in theirhouses like full deck, like full
like, and I'm like totally.
But if the mass is too, there'sso much money in baseball, dude
(33:39):
, it's ridiculous.
There's way more money inbaseball than there is in golf.
Evan (33:42):
I think because, like it's how we're about to find out if
not, I'm gonna just take my fullswing kid and put on a stick
and be like okay, read this youknow, surprisingly, when we were
doing our market research in inbaseball, um, I had kind of the
same assumptions that you did.
Like baseball, scott, and theydo have a ton of money, they do
(34:04):
have a ton of participation.
But what's interesting is,unlike the golf space, the
baseball kind of technologylandscape is very thin.
Golf is way more saturated thanbaseball, so it's interesting
yeah.
Paul (34:23):
I don't know.
I don't know either.
I think more people play golfas they get older.
I'm not playing baseballanymore.
There's no way.
I played kickball a year agoand I pulled my hamstring.
Playing kickball, dude it stillhurts, you know, yeah, but I
think there's so To your pointthough there's a huge.
Evan (34:39):
To your point, though.
There's a huge participation,you know, in in the younger, uh,
demographic, right up until youget to the high school, college
, and then of course you know ifyou're not professional or any
of the minor kind of minorleague teams, then, yeah, you're
probably not needing a devicelike that, um, but there's still
massive participation rates inin you know, travel ball, it's
(35:01):
nuts, it's not.
Paul (35:02):
Yeah, I rates in in travel ball it's nuts, it's nuts.
I mean, you're in California,I'm in Arizona, it's like the
same thing I mean any statetravel balls.
So much money.
Yeah, there's like so muchmoney in youth baseball.
It's ridiculous.
I mean just I don't know, and Ithink it's smart too.
I would love to hear talk toyou guys when you come up with
that new product.
That'd be, I didn't.
(35:22):
I knew you're coming.
I remember hearing about it,but I didn't know.
I thought it was going to besomething we're going to use
with an already existing productand they're just going to try
to Well, that's what we are, weare.
We are using the kit launchmonitor so that launch monitor
that we use for golf is thebasis for baseball.
Evan (35:45):
Yeah, that's gonna be cool as hell, dude.
Yeah, yeah, it's gonna bepretty fun.
Paul (35:47):
We're currently in in so much crap, you guys could do
like too like with that kind oftrack dude, like you know, like
bat speed up, and like kids likeoh, I you know, like there's so
much stuff, um, I can go.
Evan (35:58):
Yeah, we have a lot of opportunities available to us
here at this company.
That's.
One thing we're not short of isideas and opportunities, and
sometimes the biggest struggleis figuring out where we want to
go um which is a good problemto have.
Paul (36:11):
I would say so where can people find the full swing kit,
like right now they want to buyone.
Where do they find it?
Evan (36:18):
yeah, you just go to our website, wolfswingolfcom, and
from there you have yourselection of uh, exploring the
simulators, the launch monitor,the packages from launch monitor
, our software packages that weoffer.
It's kind of all spelled outfor you.
They're explaining the tech,the price points.
Um, yeah, just go to ourwebsite and you'll you'll be
able to navigate your waythrough that's awesome.
Paul (36:40):
Well, thank you so much for being on the show,
appreciate it.
I've been a fan.
They had a really cool booththis year too.
The pga show, like you, thatbig putting green too.
I remember like that a fewwasn't a puff.
You, our virtual green.
Yeah, the puff you is theaugmented overlay yeah dude,
that's like my dream, but thoseare so expensive.
(37:00):
That's like my dream, but thoseare so expensive.
That's like that's the coolestthing to have in anybody's house
Most putting greens.
Evan (37:04):
It'd be great.
Paul (37:06):
But like you all, it's good in my house though.
I don't know.
Yeah right, I may have cost itlike.
It probably costs as much asyou could buy like a Cybertruck
dude.
Evan (37:22):
Those things are so expensive.
Just the putting green, likefrom what I?
Yeah, I mean we're we'reworking on a cost optimized um
version of of our high-endputting green.
That you know it's a little bitmore affordable but still gives
you a ton of different um, youknow breaks and what have you so
you can work on your game andall that like that.
Paul (37:33):
yeah, I swear to god, dude , I think I just I was talking
to somebody about this.
I was like if somebody couldcome up with a more affordable
let's call it affordable likeputting green system, that would
crush Because, like every dudewants to have that, I think
almost as much as they want tohave a simulator.
You know it would help my game.
Dude, that's a thought.
Yeah for sure, but thanks forbeing on the show.
Evan (37:56):
Appreciate it, thank you.
Paul (37:58):
Not just the kit.
The kits like their entry intotheir world, but if you're into,
like, if you want even a morehigher system for your house,
like a really nice custom coolstuff, you check that out too.
Um, but so I will see you guysin the next episode thanks for
listening to another episode ofbehind the Golf Brand Podcast.
(38:20):
You're going to beat me A golf .
Stay connected on and off theshow by visiting
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Don't forget to like, subscribeand leave a comment.
Golf is always more fun whenyou win.
Stay out of the beach and seeyou on the green you.
What's up guys?
Welcome to the Behind the GolfBrand Podcast.
This week I have my good friend, Evan Alsadden from Full Swing.
If you guys don't know whatFull Swing is or are, or the
proper pronunciation, then youprobably have never been in a
simulator or watched TGL or knowTiger Woods is, so you probably
(00:55):
shouldn't even be playing golf.
So I have on the show today.
We're going to talk abouteverything Full Swing, all the
new stuff they're doing, we'retalking about TGL, we're going
to talk about everything.
So welcome to the show.
Thank you, pleasure to be on.
So where are you located?
Evan (01:11):
looks like you're a bar yeah uh, we've got a couple
little hidden uh takeaway barsin the in the office, so we call
this one the dive bar.
But yeah, it's where I can kindof get away and and talk to you
.
So yeah, we're in carlsbad, iswhere h uh hq is um now, are you
from carlsbad, are you fromsomewhere else?
(01:32):
No, I grew up in la canada, uh,just outside of pasadena, so in
the la area, but now reside insan diego and my wife and two,
two young kids, it's a blast.
Paul (01:44):
Where do you live?
Evan (01:44):
in san diego, like I'm in san marcos, oh yeah it's about
yeah, it's about 15, 20 minutesaway from the office
everything's like it's expensivethere.
Paul (01:54):
Man, san diego, I know I would love.
I would live there a heartbeat.
I love san diego.
That's like my favorite.
The whole area is awesome.
It's just so expensive it's.
Evan (02:04):
It's so expensive.
I mean, we we bought a house acouple years ago and I just
remember thinking, oh my gosh,we're overpaying.
And then interest rates go up,the housing prices are going up.
Who knows what's going tohappen.
But I feel lucky to have founda place, because I needed one
with the, the little onesrunning around where were you
living before?
Paul (02:21):
like downtown ish or something.
Evan (02:23):
We were renting in Solana Beach.
So yeah, just yeah, just southof us, about 25 minutes or so,
but yeah, it's great down there.
It's just extremelyunaffordable.
Paul (02:36):
Yeah, everything south of like I don't know Bakersfield is
affordable, right.
Evan (02:47):
So how long have you been with full swing then?
So I've been with the companyfor probably close to eight
years now.
Seven half eight years, yeah,so it's been a little while.
It's kind of funny you justkind of look up and times flown
by, but yeah, it's been a while.
We came to this office, I wantto say about six years ago, so
we're doing about a year and ahalf, two years and a kind of a
(03:08):
split.
We had a split distribution ofthe workforce.
We had kind of like a we worktype of set up for sales and
marketing and then kind ofoperations, fulfillment, finance
was all out of Rancho Bernardoand yeah, so it's.
It all came together at thisoffice.
Paul (03:27):
I don't know if you've been it's a pretty fun spot,
though I think next time I comeout there I want to come see you
guys like do.
I did that last summer.
I did like two behind the brandbehind the brand kind of
youtube videos.
One is with sunday golf who'sin?
That used to be in the sundaybags, you know they're yeah
their office was like right nextto, uh, the baseball.
(03:48):
What's the park called overthere, I just can't think of the
name of it with padres play,yeah, that other team, echo,
yeah, by peco, um, and then Idid a behind one.
I got behind the scenes videowith vessel too, and like saw
the whole facility and like sawit was cool, dude, like it's
nice, yeah, like just to seethat, like people can get a
better taste of, like you know,because I think it's like yeah
(04:12):
you know like, oh, let's um, andI'm not gonna name it.
I went to another place once too, but they wouldn't let me film
in there and I was like, well,what the hell am I here for?
This is boring.
Like, oh, we gotta Google PR tomake sure it's okay.
I'm like dude.
Why am I here filming?
If I have to be like vetted,we're open to it.
Do the tour or not.
Yeah, we're open to it.
(04:33):
It's a fun spot here.
Paul (04:34):
It's fun, it's just like.
Yeah, so like, when you startedlike, I guess my first question
is have you always been intogolf or you like you know like?
Did you start like, were youlike some, really like enum or
some you?
Evan (04:50):
know, like when you're a kid no, no, that's not me by any
means.
I was always interested in golf.
I mean, my, my um, parents aregolfers and I was fortunate to
have access to a country club,but I I spent my time at that
club in the pool ordering foodon their tab.
So I wasn't, you know, makinggood use of the golf course.
I didn't have the patiencegrowing up for golf, even though
(05:13):
it was always around, always onTV.
But I really started to getinto it, like I think a lot of
people do, kind of in thecollege.
You know, right after college,picking it back up again, again.
I could always hit a ball, butjust never straight, and I still
struggle with that, as as manyof us do.
But, um, yeah, no, wasn't,didn't come from the golf
industry.
When I came here, I was in thecpg world working for one of the
(05:35):
conglomerates.
You know that kind of have halfthe shelf at a walmart or
target, uh under, uh, new brands.
Um, it under Null Brands.
It was Null Rubbermaid at thetime.
I was with them and then cameover to Full Swing about seven
and a half, eight years ago.
It's just been a roller coaster.
It's been great though.
We've done such an amazing jobat growing and scaling the
(06:00):
business, creating new products.
It's been exciting to be a partof it.
Paul (06:06):
Full Swing's been around for a long time right, yeah, a
long time.
Core brand.
It's one of the original, ifnot the original it probably is
is the og of the space.
Evan (06:15):
I would imagine it's.
It's around 40 years, uh, old,you know, and it's gone through
a change of ownership throughoutthose years, obviously.
But, um, I think, really, whenour ceo ryan daughters and my
boss, our ceo jason fierro, theykind of came in, um, I think
two years prior to when Istarted something like that, and
(06:42):
came in, came in with a privateequity group and really
invested in the business and youreally started to see it just
take off when you startedgetting the right people in the
right seats.
So, yeah, it was pretty fun tobe a part of that.
Paul (06:50):
I mean it's really cool too.
I think about you guys is likeI feel when you guys came out
with kit right, because it'slike you you had to be in the
sim space to know what you guys,who you guys were and what you
were doing.
But then when the kid came out,it was like it opening up to a
newer audience, right, or anaudience that maybe couldn't
afford the, the big jama, youknow yeah I mean it was.
Evan (07:15):
It's funny.
I I'll never forget my secondand and again, I don't come from
this world.
So my sec I think it's like mysecond or third day on the job
our ceo goes, hey, I want you togo build a launch monitor.
And I'm like, well, you knowgetting on google like what's a
launch monitor?
Because I had no clue.
(07:37):
I mean, I understood theconcept of uh simulation and
home right and and obviouslydoing my diligence on the
company before I came in, butthen I started to understand
what it was and the utility init and um having someone like
tiger who's has a goodrelationship, uh, with both ryan
and jason, you know, say, hey,um, I'm using this track man and
(08:01):
he had a whole bunch of issueswith his track man and thought
it would be a great opportunityfor us to build something that
was reliable, accurate.
I mean, we we do hold ourselvesum in high regard as far as
accuracy.
If we feel like without that,everything else you know can't
really, you can't reallycelebrate the benefits of these
(08:21):
tracking systems.
You know user experience, thedifferent games, the courses,
this, and that you really can'tum buy into that unless you feel
really good about the numbersthat you're especially somebody
like tiger, right, like he'slike hey, I'm gonna put my name
on something
Paul (08:35):
but, you know what I'm saying like I mean, we all like
trackman's around forever, right, and they're like totally,
there's a bear in the room likeeverybody knows, okay, it's
trackman.
Evan (08:44):
But like yeah, I feel like trackman has a massive
advantage because they well,there's a kleenex of the
industry I mean they yeah of thelaunch monitor space.
Paul (08:52):
I got in with coaches and they were the first.
I mean like every you know, butit's.
But I know there's like a likeI don't have a track man because
I can afford one, but like Iknow that for tiger to stand
behind something like you don'tsee that right.
Like was no not technology,there's always misconceptions.
Evan (09:11):
I think, too, whenever someone sees an athlete or an
ambassador affiliated with acompany, that he'll promote
something just because it's inhis financial interest, I can
even though I don't know with100% certainty, with 99.9%
certainty can say he wouldn't bedoing it because he thinks he's
going to get a bigger check inthe mail.
(09:32):
I mean, you've heard storiesabout TaylorMade and him feeling
like a club is you know a halfyard off, like where it should
be.
I mean, that's the level ofdetail that he expects, and so
you know, his big thing was, youknow, the most critical data
points as far as what he wasconcerned were like carry
distance and spin rates andmaking sure that it was reliable
(09:53):
, which, at the time, asTrackMan, was giving him
problems.
And it was an opportunity forthe company to invest in a
complementary product to thein-home simulators that we made,
a complimentary product to thein-home simulators that we made,
and so that technology that wepicked, a radar-based
application, made total sensefor outdoor full-flight tracking
, because the Doppler radar isessentially sampling the ball
(10:17):
throughout its entire flight, soyou know the velocity and then
where it is in space over time,the movement of the ball,
whereas the other launchmonitors in that category.
We have the opportunity tobasically take a path of what
core tech do we want to useright Camera-based technology,
like your, like the Foresight GCquads or, you know, the lower
(10:42):
end, the Skytrax and weintentionally went after radar
because it truly is the besttech for the outdoors.
And then what we found was, youknow, kind of certain, uh,
serendipitously, is that right?
Paul (10:58):
something like that uh, what is the word?
Yeah, I understand.
Evan (11:02):
Is it serendipitously maybe?
Paul (11:05):
Yes, serendipitously.
Oh, I think I said it.
Evan (11:09):
Yeah, I think that's right .
Teamwork Slackman and Titleistwere working on this RCT ball
that allowed radar launchmonitors to essentially solve
problems that they had indoorsfor the longest time, which I
think in prior years was reallythe advantage of the
camera-based products, and sothe advantage indoors for
(11:31):
camera-based products havesignificantly diminished because
of some of the differentinnovations that have kind of
just so happened in parallel toour development, which is pretty
nice, yeah kind of interestingtoo right when like things are
like I read this book once andthey're like there's like so
many things we don't seehappening, that like we think we
(11:53):
see everything's going on, butthere's like things happening in
whatever the universe,whatever's happening that like
you don't know what's happeningtoo, so it all like kind of
falls into place.
Paul (12:01):
You're like what the hell?
Evan (12:03):
Yeah, it was perfect timing, but we're we're really,
really proud of that product anda lot, of, a lot of folks talk
about the price point cause weprice it at $5,000, but it is
truly just as accurate as atrack man, more accurate in
other areas.
You know, I'm sure track manhas advantages in a couple areas
.
It was for $15,000 or whateverright, or $20,000 or whatever
(12:26):
they're at $20,000 around thatrange, and you know we came to
market with a product that wasoptimized.
We have PhDs working on it thatcome from the radar space really
the drone space and automotiveas well and so they helped us
develop something with the sameperformance capabilities without
(12:47):
having to essentially use twoseparate radar boards in our
device.
We can do it with one.
That cost savings we get fromthose radar boards, which are
expensive, we transfer to theconsumer.
And that's not an easy story totell and it might not have made
sense when I just told it toyou, but the cost of goods goes
down because we were thebeneficiaries of the gains in
(13:08):
technology and so because ofthat, we're able to transfer
those savings through to thecustomer and instead of just
making a bigger margin andselling it for 15, 20 grand, we
want to democratize golf andgive young golfers who are
aspiring to turn amateur oramateur or pro, whatever it
might be, an opportunity to usethis stuff and feel pretty
(13:28):
confident so what year did thekit come out?
I can't remember 21, 20 um 20, Iwant to say 22, yeah what I
think is interesting too is theprice point.
Paul (13:44):
Right, because you're saying you know, and I think,
like because you're the first,I'm going somewhere with this,
right, so you're the first atthat price point.
And then it's like okay, nowyou're starting to see other but
everybody else starting tofollow.
Right, like you have your sub,you know everyone's sub thousand
, right, that's the race, thebottom.
Then you have sub 2000.
People are like kind of bitch alittle bit.
(14:05):
You know, like oh, but you'regetting more and more better
technology right from where youpay.
And then you see, like the 3000unit come out two years ago,
right, which is the sky trackseries.
And now it's like you guys werealready out of five, right or
right on five.
But then what carmen comes outfive months ago, a five thousand
dollar unit, right, so it'slike, oh, so it's almost like I
(14:27):
find it very interesting, right,because it's like, not, it's,
it's a race to the top, withtrying to get the getting as
much juice out of the system asyou can without having to spend
a bajillion dollars on it,exactly exactly now.
Evan (14:42):
I mean that the the price gamut $500,000 to $20,000, and
you have all these products inbetween, and so for us, I mean
my boss says it's the best, it'sthe best kept secret in golf,
but you're starting to see notonly just the organic adoption
of it at the various levels, buta little friend in TGL had the
(15:05):
opportunity to give thisbusiness, for, you know, part of
the tracking solution that thatwe accomplished with kit to any
one of those brands and theydidn't, and that's a tech
infused golf league exactly it'sall tech right like it's like I
mean, and I think what'sinteresting about you know,
(15:26):
switching to tgl?
Paul (15:27):
it's like it was cool to watch.
Even the stadium was amazing.
It was fun.
Did you go to any events?
Evan (15:34):
you probably know everyone , yeah yeah, I mean not every
one of them.
I I was a big part of umsetting it all up kind of the
development, and so I I probablytraveled about seven times in
the last year and it's a bigdeal for me to travel because of
the kiddos and yeah the factthat it's on the united states
and it's not like I mean it'sanother corner of the united
(15:55):
states but it's such a greataccomplishment for the business
too.
It really um was a testament towhat what we've done on not just
kit, which is a big part of um,tgl, but ultimately our virtual
green technology, making thatgreen turn and undulate it's a
lot of work yeah, I mean it'slike you're
Paul (16:16):
starting.
You know people are gonna talkcrap or you know like, oh, you
know, it's simulator golf andit's like dude they're.
It's like technology is jumpingin leaps and bounds and it's
being accepted yeah, right, soit's like dude there.
It's like technology is jumpingin leaps and bounds and it's
being accepted, yeah, right, soit's like it's.
I mean, it's only gonna getbetter, more each year because
it's gonna have bettertechnology, better stuff.
We learn from mistakes, we makethings cooler, or whatever it
(16:37):
might be.
And it was still fun to watchand it's still cool to see.
Um, yeah, I think with tgl,what's happening, tg like right
now.
Evan (16:47):
Is it like because of this , everyone's playing now, right,
like well it just finished, um,season one, and I think it's
been an overwhelming successfrom tgl's perspective.
The viewership, which is I'msure it's probably viewership,
which is I'm sure it's probablyviewership, sponsorship, you
know, the combination of thosethings have exceeded
(17:08):
expectations by a pretty fairmargin, I'd say, which is great
for everybody involved,obviously, and, I think, great
for the game of golf.
You're seeing the viewershipfor that skew lower and the
audience, I think, doubled.
So they doubled theparticipation that they were
(17:32):
expecting and the audienceskewed lower than they had
anticipated, which is a goodthing because they are trying to
bring, you know, a youngerdemographic to the game of golf,
and so I think it really hit alot of different marks.
Now there is so much more in theTGL world that is going to be
happening between now and Season2.
Whether it's adding new teams,we have a whole list of things
(17:56):
that we want to accomplish as agroup.
But you kind of saw, fromEpisode 1 through the finals,
they, from a productionstandpoint, know, changed so
much to the tech.
We we were monitoring it butmade notes on things that, um,
opportunities, that that wecould have to improve different
things, automation, um, creatingmore intrigue in certain areas,
(18:19):
um, but again you're, you'rethrowing some.
You know you're throwing a dartat the board and it's an
overwhelming success.
We feel very honored to havebeen such a big part of it.
Also, the on-screen graphicsthe game was of our doing as
well.
That's a lot.
(18:40):
It was a pretty bigaccomplishment because it does
touch scrapping technology, thegame itself, the green, and then
the architecture that allowsfor shots to be ingested and
things to move.
All that's us, and I'm reallyproud of the team.
We've got such a smart, capablegroup that it took something
(19:02):
like that to focus and reallyshow what we can do if given the
opportunity what's it?
Paul (19:08):
what's cool, too, is like also being the first to do it
you know, like someone else's.
You have lots of competitorsout there.
They all could have donesomething like this.
They didn't.
So, yeah, kind of do like now.
Yeah, if guys don't know, like,how does the like full swing
kit work?
Is, is it just Doppler?
I know there's a camera on ittoo.
I know that.
Evan (19:28):
Yeah, there's a camera, yeah, camera, doppler radar.
So essentially, you put yourunit down about 8 to 10 feet
behind the outdoors, you put aball down, use our application,
which I think is another greatpart of the experience.
I think we really kicked button the user experience as well
(19:48):
in the application, and it's asimple setup guide.
I mean, it's really easy to getup and going, and I think that
was a big opportunity that wehad in front of us was to reduce
the amount of setup time withsome of the other products in
the space.
So you use your mobileapplication, you connect to the
unit, you align your unit to thetarget and then it allows the
(20:09):
system to do its thing, and soDoppler radar tracks the ball
flight throughout its entirety.
We've got a camera on board thathas a video grab for each shot
that you take and, depending onyour subscription plan and
there's only two, really one,which is do you want data and
video over time so you pay forstorage?
(20:29):
It's not.
It's very easy to understandwhy there's a subscription there
, but you get basically all thefeatures that we offer in the
premium subscription andcurrently we're offering that
for 99 a month to $199, butwe're adding in a pretty fun
feature here coming up soon inthe Full Swing Combine, which is
a fun experience that'll belaunching here in the next
(20:52):
couple weeks.
Paul (20:54):
Is that a new software upgrade, the Combine.
Evan (20:56):
It's an update to the application, the mobile
application for tablet.
Paul (21:02):
That's cool.
Now people can get a Full Swingkit.
They can buy the kit and likehit it into a net if they want,
or they can just totally change.
But you guys also do like youcan buy like almost like build
your like a diy, like kind ofhelp, not really pure diy, but
almost like they can buy theirown setup.
Right, so you have it.
Evan (21:23):
Yeah, you can exactly I mean, all you really need to
know is I would say, like thetightest you'd want to go
indoors, eight feet behind youfor the unit, you know, eight
feet in front of you for a netor a screen.
Um, you can do a diy kind of Idon't say hack job, but you know
what I mean grab all yourfavorite components, yeah, or
kit, yeah.
That's a lot of right and weoffer, obviously, if you just,
(21:48):
if you're new to the space andyou just want soup to nuts, the
whole thing, we offer that aswell.
But, um, yeah, it works indoorsand it's fantastic.
It does really well bothoutdoors and indoors.
And, um, it's a fun littlelittle product that fits in a.
We have a nice little carrycase as well that's shock
absorbent and kind of waterproofso you can fit into your golf
(22:09):
bag, which was a big part of thedesign aspect, actually of the
unit itself was to make surepeople can use it on range but
then stowed away if they want togo out and play around a golf
how long did the battery?
last, if you're out, the rangebattery lasts a long time.
I mean it's it's probably atthe top of the spectrum.
I mean, again, you kind of dothe competitive assessments
(22:31):
every now and then, but at thetime when we did it, I mean it
performs, I would say about sixhours.
I think we probably marked itfive hours, but just in my
practice, like how I've used it,my use case, it'll last it
around six hours, even more, um,depending on usage, right,
because every time you hit aball you're processing data.
(22:53):
So, depending on frequency, youknow five hours is a safe bet
to say it's what we market, so Ishould probably go with that,
but in practical terms probablyabout six hours for most people
in practical terms, probablyabout six hours for most people.
Paul (23:10):
Um now, what I like about the full swing kit, though at
least it's like how you have thedata like all on the actual
unit yourself, like you don'thave you don't have to bring
right.
I mean, yeah, you can bring anipad with you or an iphone or
whatever, right, but like youdon't have to rely on that to be
like what was the yardage islike you can literally yeah like
okay, and it's big and it'sbright, it's like right there,
it's not like all weird.
You know what I mean.
Like yeah, I think that waskind of a big thing too, because
you see a lot of people kind offollow suit after you guys did
(23:33):
that it was.
Evan (23:34):
it was very clear during research that that was an
opportunity that no one wascashing in on and, you know,
granted we the execution of itwas in an OLED screen, which is,
you know, cool and it pops moreto your point.
Paul (23:48):
Oh, the brightness outside too.
Right With the sun, like yeah,it's like you're not, like still
pops, yeah, like in a brightday it just seemed like such low
hanging fruit based on theresearch that we did.
Evan (24:00):
It was a little bit of a surprise at the lack of
competition when it came to that.
A little bit, uh, of a surpriseat the lack of competition when
it came to that.
But we try to be as least youknow invasive as possible when
it comes to someone's uhpractice regiment and so if a
simple glance is all you want todo and you don't want to
interface with a phone or atablet or a watch, you don't
have to yeah, you don't reallyneed to have, like your uh
(24:22):
internet connection either youknow, what I mean like, or
that's a problem too.
Paul (24:27):
I feel like if you sometimes is like when you try
to bring like an ipad with you,like that thing's gonna overheat
, like you know, like yeah, theipad itself, the iphone it can,
yeah, I mean just way before thelaunch monitor is going to way,
way, way before, yeah.
So then you're like now you'recompletely hosed because now you
like you came and read becauseyour thing showing like the over
(24:48):
here, yeah, you're absolutelyright.
Evan (24:52):
I I remember doing some testing out in um Indian Wells.
My folks live in Indian Wellsfor part of the year and it was
a really hot day and I figuredwhy not stress test the uh
combination?
So I went outside for about 30,40 minutes and I want to say
like 95 degree weather and I putmy phone.
You know what I mean Like it'sjust.
Yeah, I mean it's dry heat, butyeah, I put my phone in the
(25:16):
carry case for the launchmonitor.
As I was using the launchmonitor, my phone was
overheating before the unit.
So yeah, you're right.
Paul (25:25):
So let me ask some questions.
I don't know the answer, like Iknow the answer, but well, I
don't really so.
Can somebody use the full swingkit on regular grass, or does
it have to be on turf?
Evan (25:37):
oh, it can be on regular grass or turf, the surface
material does not matter umthat's what I figured.
Paul (25:45):
I know some brands I learned the hard way.
At some brands you have to haveturf, which I'm like that's
completely pointless, because Ilive in arizona and we don't
turf really unless you'reindoors.
So interesting.
But yeah, that's one thing.
The other question I had too isum, like where can people get a
(26:08):
full swing kit?
Don't you have like kit kits,like a like, like a full like?
I remember reading thatsomewhere too.
You just literally get all inone box, like all this stuff yes
, so we offer the the packagebundle with the launch monitor
so we we have a um kind of anindoor solution that's not just
your ipad connected to aprojector.
Evan (26:30):
We actually have um our golf course software that we use
for our simulators available, acondensed version of that
available for the kit, what wecall kit studio experience.
So I think you get around 17 uhcourses, um, and we've got a
relationship with the tour, soyou've got some exclusivity as
(26:50):
far as courses go, some of thetpc courses.
That's cool and um.
You can connect it through a pcand, you know, have your kind
of full in-home simulationexperience with kit being the
driving driving force behind it.
Um.
And then we have, you know, ourmobile application, which again
is much more geared towardspractice with the driving range
(27:10):
and this new combine um featurewhich is coming out soon, which
is essentially um, a partnershipthat we have with a group uh
called clipped.
They're based out of london butthey are a data science team.
That um has a proprietaryscoring system and gives you
shot quality, so you kind ofpick a distance, your combine
(27:31):
distances I want to work on 60yard, 80 yard shots, whatever it
might be, and based on theiralgorithm and what our unit's
telling you, you know how faryou hit the ball, whether you're
indoors or outdoors, it'll giveyou this unique scoring system
which allows you to transfer youknow, that skillset to
(27:52):
on-course play.
I think that's the best way tokind of take a one-to-one from
practice, really applying whatyou're doing in that practice
setting to on-course, which I'mreally excited about.
It's really fun.
But yeah, you've got those twooptions connecting that studio
to a mobile application or tothe kind of full PC software if
(28:13):
you want to play all the coursesso can you play some courses on
the on the app you can't playany courses on the app but again
you can get the PC version ofour 17 courses and practice
areas and long drive competitionclosest to Penn all that sorts
of stuff on the PC version ofgolf.
Paul (28:36):
Now with that, does the kit then plug in?
If you're doing it to a PC, isthat using just the Bluetooth or
the Wi-Fi, or do you have touse a cable?
Evan (28:45):
You can use Wi-Fi or you can USB-C into it.
So you send a USB-C to thelaunch monitor, to the computer,
and then it drives theexperience.
Paul (28:56):
Yeah, and then if somebody has a projector or something,
they can plug everything to thewhole system and make it look
cool.
Exactly, but you also have theone that has a net, too, right?
Or people can just hit into anet and you can have your
computer right.
(29:06):
Totally.
Paul (29:07):
You can have a laptop right there and you can be like,
okay, that's cool.
Evan (29:11):
A lot of people will do that exactly.
They'll either use their laptopor they'll connect their laptop
to a tv screen yeah, oh exactly.
Paul (29:19):
Or tv screen, right, yeah, all tvs now have that
functionality.
But then you also don't makejust the kit like.
Then you have like your higherend, like commercial stuff yes,
yeah, we've got our yourflagship product?
Evan (29:33):
yeah, flagship yeah, so our um, we've got simulators
that you know.
Again, that's the.
It's been the bread and butterof the business for 40 years, as
I mentioned.
Yeah, so it's evolved so much.
We've got a state-of-the-artsystem here that uses camera and
infrared technology and it'sgot all the IP around it.
(29:54):
But it's the best in the gamereal-time transitioning of the
ball into the virtual worldbased on kind of the tech and
where it sits, and that's reallyimportant when it comes to good
golfers wanting to use this asa practice tool.
But obviously it's really funand entertaining as well.
Right, you can do so much withit.
Paul (30:16):
It's even higher level of accuracy, right, because you
have laser and you have camerasystem and then you have Well,
you're indoors.
Evan (30:25):
Indoors again, there's no launch monitor out there can
yield the same level ofprecision and accuracy as what
our tech can do indoors.
And that's just a function ofus haven't been in the space for
so long and the the um thesystem and how we set it up.
(30:45):
We kind of put these two uhcurtains of tech before the
screen and and the ball passesthrough these kind of curtains
and it creates a vector andgives uh the golfer the ability
to hit the ball anywhere on thescreen and you'll see the ball
enter the virtual world exactlywhere that ball hit.
Paul (31:04):
I hate lag.
Lag is so annoying, dude, whenyou're like hitting a ball and
it's like you hit it and thenyou're like waiting.
Looking at your watch, you'relike, oh, there's the ball, but
you've already had a cup ofcoffee and like yeah right.
Evan (31:16):
It's not even just lag, though I mean that's one part of
it that I think the bigger partis.
Like if you hit on an old usetrackman as an example.
I mean you hit on a track band,if the ball's starting from the
center of the screen every time, even if you hit one right or
left.
What I'm saying is if you hitone top right of the simulator
screen, it's going to come outtop right, really Like a push
(31:40):
draw.
Paul (31:41):
You really see it?
It's not like, oh, I hit itstraight A hundred percent Full
shade and it's straight.
That thing looks like you hitthe screen straight, but that
really was like over there,right, it's on three fairways
over.
Evan (31:52):
Yeah, everybody else starts at the center bottom
center of the screen.
Paul (31:56):
You hit it in the middle of the fairway at every shot.
Evan (31:58):
Good job, right, right yeah so that that's I mean,
that's been um again, ourachilles heel, um it's just
making sure that this thing isalways.
We're continuously improving itum year over year and the
experiences that we offer noware so cool.
Right, we're not just I mean,we are pretty hardcore into golf
, but we do offer really fun andentertaining games, and we've
(32:21):
got our full swing games packwhich has a myriad of
experiences you can, you knowfootball challenges soccer,
challenges baseball, you name itso we've got a ton of different
experiences, yeah.
Yeah, home run Derby.
Paul (32:36):
But is?
But?
Is that but that for the, theceiling mounted unit, or is that
you can use that in the kit?
Evan (32:42):
Not for the kit, at least for now.
We are getting into baseballwith kit though that is a good
segue if you wanted to do thatbut we are using the knowledge
we gained and gleaned from golfin object tracking with radar,
and we're going to be launchinga baseball product here.
(33:03):
Uh, very soon, oh I know, thatit will be for the masses I want
, I want to try that yeah, it'llbe pretty fun, that's gonna be
cool, I think that's like it's.
Paul (33:17):
It's interesting like stuff starts in golf but then it
easily transpires any othersport right, like soccer or
baseball or shooting or like youknow what I mean.
Like I, yeah, like race carsimulators and airplane sims
like that people have in theirhouses like full deck, like full
like, and I'm like totally.
But if the mass is too, there'sso much money in baseball, dude
(33:39):
, it's ridiculous.
There's way more money inbaseball than there is in golf.
Evan (33:42):
I think because, like it's how we're about to find out if
not, I'm gonna just take my fullswing kid and put on a stick
and be like okay, read this youknow, surprisingly, when we were
doing our market research in inbaseball, um, I had kind of the
same assumptions that you did.
Like baseball, scott, and theydo have a ton of money, they do
(34:04):
have a ton of participation.
But what's interesting is,unlike the golf space, the
baseball kind of technologylandscape is very thin.
Golf is way more saturated thanbaseball, so it's interesting
yeah.
Paul (34:23):
I don't know.
I don't know either.
I think more people play golfas they get older.
I'm not playing baseballanymore.
There's no way.
I played kickball a year agoand I pulled my hamstring.
Playing kickball, dude it stillhurts, you know, yeah, but I
think there's so To your pointthough there's a huge.
Evan (34:39):
To your point, though.
There's a huge participation,you know, in in the younger, uh,
demographic, right up until youget to the high school, college
, and then of course you know ifyou're not professional or any
of the minor kind of minorleague teams, then, yeah, you're
probably not needing a devicelike that, um, but there's still
massive participation rates inin you know, travel ball, it's
(35:01):
nuts, it's not.
Paul (35:02):
Yeah, I rates in in travel ball it's nuts, it's nuts.
I mean, you're in California,I'm in Arizona, it's like the
same thing I mean any statetravel balls.
So much money.
Yeah, there's like so muchmoney in youth baseball.
It's ridiculous.
I mean just I don't know, and Ithink it's smart too.
I would love to hear talk toyou guys when you come up with
that new product.
That'd be, I didn't.
(35:22):
I knew you're coming.
I remember hearing about it,but I didn't know.
I thought it was going to besomething we're going to use
with an already existing productand they're just going to try
to Well, that's what we are, weare.
We are using the kit launchmonitor so that launch monitor
that we use for golf is thebasis for baseball.
Evan (35:45):
Yeah, that's gonna be cool as hell, dude.
Yeah, yeah, it's gonna bepretty fun.
Paul (35:47):
We're currently in in so much crap, you guys could do
like too like with that kind oftrack dude, like you know, like
bat speed up, and like kids likeoh, I you know, like there's so
much stuff, um, I can go.
Evan (35:58):
Yeah, we have a lot of opportunities available to us
here at this company.
That's.
One thing we're not short of isideas and opportunities, and
sometimes the biggest struggleis figuring out where we want to
go um which is a good problemto have.
Paul (36:11):
I would say so where can people find the full swing kit,
like right now they want to buyone.
Where do they find it?
Evan (36:18):
yeah, you just go to our website, wolfswingolfcom, and
from there you have yourselection of uh, exploring the
simulators, the launch monitor,the packages from launch monitor
, our software packages that weoffer.
It's kind of all spelled outfor you.
They're explaining the tech,the price points.
Um, yeah, just go to ourwebsite and you'll you'll be
able to navigate your waythrough that's awesome.
Paul (36:40):
Well, thank you so much for being on the show,
appreciate it.
I've been a fan.
They had a really cool booththis year too.
The pga show, like you, thatbig putting green too.
I remember like that a fewwasn't a puff.
You, our virtual green.
Yeah, the puff you is theaugmented overlay yeah dude,
that's like my dream, but thoseare so expensive.
(37:00):
That's like my dream, but thoseare so expensive.
That's like that's the coolestthing to have in anybody's house
Most putting greens.
Evan (37:04):
It'd be great.
Paul (37:06):
But like you all, it's good in my house though.
I don't know.
Yeah right, I may have cost itlike.
It probably costs as much asyou could buy like a Cybertruck
dude.
Evan (37:22):
Those things are so expensive.
Just the putting green, likefrom what I?
Yeah, I mean we're we'reworking on a cost optimized um
version of of our high-endputting green.
That you know it's a little bitmore affordable but still gives
you a ton of different um, youknow breaks and what have you so
you can work on your game andall that like that.
Paul (37:33):
yeah, I swear to god, dude , I think I just I was talking
to somebody about this.
I was like if somebody couldcome up with a more affordable
let's call it affordable likeputting green system, that would
crush Because, like every dudewants to have that, I think
almost as much as they want tohave a simulator.
You know it would help my game.
Dude, that's a thought.
Yeah for sure, but thanks forbeing on the show.
Evan (37:56):
Appreciate it, thank you.
Paul (37:58):
Not just the kit.
The kits like their entry intotheir world, but if you're into,
like, if you want even a morehigher system for your house,
like a really nice custom coolstuff, you check that out too.
Um, but so I will see you guysin the next episode thanks for
listening to another episode ofbehind the Golf Brand Podcast.
(38:20):
You're going to beat me A golf .
Stay connected on and off theshow by visiting
golfersauthoritycom.
Don't forget to like, subscribeand leave a comment.
Golf is always more fun whenyou win.
Stay out of the beach and seeyou on the green you.
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